From: mendo_recce@off-road.com Subject: Digest for mendo_recce: 3/7/1997 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@off-road.com Reply-To: mendo_recce@off-road.com Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:23:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Dyno testing (was: Weber 1 bbl. on a 2.25) I agree that 80% efficency on a 2.25 is possible with an unrestricted exhaust and the right carb. Airflow can be restricted on the intake side as well as exhaust. Stock air cleaners? Which carbs? Also, did the engines run ancillaries, like generators/alternators under a load? I based my numbers conservatively, which serves a wider range of vehiches, but still gives a good baseline for comparison. Mildly modified engines can hit the 85% figure fairly easily, but to achieve 100% or better does require a pretty good design and modifications not often found on everyday street engines. Certainly, if those figures move up the scale (and keeping the rpm's the same) the airflow requirements increase. I doubt that a stock, well worn 7:1 2.25 can muster much more than 70%. All pretty basic stuff, but you need to start somewhere. And there's that cascade effect: more radical cams require different springs, rocker geometry, port flow characteristics, intake velocity, etc., etc. Sounds like your testing would have been a lot of fun. Oh, to have access to such facilities today! I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, John: when do we get the lecture on diesel efficiency? Hey, they're just Land Rovers. This isn't rocket science, you know.... Steve ------------------------------------ From: Clayton Kirkwood Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 08:20:49 -0800 Subject: resend of suspension question I sent this out several days ago, but received not one answer so let me ask again... Ok, so I've been replacing parts all over, and have the beasty running ok (but still having the dickens of a time with getting the brakes to work right). I am wanting to understand whether the suspension needs to be replaced. So... How does one know if the leaf springs should be replaced? Is there a certain height some component should be above another or the ground? The bottom plate under the springs, and where the shocks attach down low, is bent, or so it seems. BP doesn't sell these bottom plates. Are they supposed to be bent? It looks like the shocks were fully compressed in offroading, hard!! and bent that plate. I presume that the way to determine if the shocks need to be replaced is by the jumping on the bumper test: if it continues to undulate, then replace. Mine aren't undulating particularly, but I assume they are pretty old. Thanks, Clayton ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:24:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: March Outing Armando asked: >Since you are familiar with the area what USGS 7.5 maps do you think we >need or do we need any? Let me know as I can stop by the USGS Store and >pick some up. You probably don't particularly need any as there will likely be several there who have them. If you want to get them, the main ones for this area are Potato Hill and Bartlett Mtn., another that'd be nice is Elk Mountain. If we range well to the east, then you'd want Bartlett Springs and Fouts Springs, possibly Clearlake Oaks and Lucerne. I do recommend that everyone have the DeLorme Northern California Atlas and Gazetteer and the USFS Mendocino Forest Map. Tom: The base camp is Deer Valley, not Deer Creek, as you'll see in my earlier posting in which I gave directions. I did not give the USFS road numbers as I was doing that message (as with this one) at home and my USFS maps are at home. There are two ways to get to Deer Valley Camp from Elk Mountain Road. After you pass Middle Creek Camp, take the second obvious road to the right (Elk Mountain Road is paved but very windy until you get to the top of the ridge where the road to Deer Valley Camp takes off); it leads right into the middle of the camp; this is the easy route. I don't remember how far from Elk Mountain Road the camp is but surely less than two miles. The second way which I prefer but is sometimes a bit rough is to take the first obvious right off Elk Mountain Road after Middle Creek Camp. This gets you off Elk Mountain Road (and that nasty tarmac) sooner, before a lot of the windy bits, and will be along a ledge, with a drop-off to the right. Usually a pretty good road. It ends at a tee (well, more of a wye) intersection in a saddle where the intersecting road is uphill both directions. Take a left here and you're almost in the camp. Cheers, Granny ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:06:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Weber 1 bbl. a reply to Steve Dale, setting the timing by ear isn't a bad idea at all. I use the timing marks as a starting point, then start advancing: when it pings on hard acceleration or a load (high gear, low speed), I back it off till it stops pinking. That is your optimum timing for your engine and fuel used. You can check your total advance with electronic ignition. Set your timing light, and rev the engine. I know you have a tach on Daisy; total advance should come on about 1200/1500 rpm, and be about 22 degrees. Your initial is probably around 6 or so, but it might take up to 10 ok. Set your initial, then slowly rev up the engine: if the total advance comes on too early, it can cause a stumble. If it dosen't increase at all, that's a problem too. Your checking the centrifugal weights/springs this way. Let off the throttle: how quickly does the advance return to static? On initial acceleration your vacuum unit should work too, and your light will initially show an advance, then back down a bit. The advice on looking for a vacuum leak is a good one. Make sure you check your power booster and vacuum advance too. Hope that helps. Have fun this weekend. Let us know what you found. Steve ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:49:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Weber 1 bbl. on a 2.25 I'm well versed with variable venturi carbs (SU's and Strombergs), and I've been using them for the last 20 years on my Triumphs. They do work great at altitude. One year we went out to Boulder for the Triumph National, and one guy in our caravan had a TR4 with Weber DCOE's (side drafts). His mechanic jetted it for sea level, but he wasn't warned he needed a box 'o jets to get over Eisenhower. He was down on his knees, looking like a diesel (sorry, John O.), while the rest of us were still capable of 55-60. I'd like SU's on the 2.25. Holley is making a line of TBI systems for all kinds of applications, designed as aftermarket add ons for carbureted engines, complete with all the brain boxes. One set up is for 4 cyl. Jeeps, where the 2.5 displacement is pretty close to 2.25. Airflow is different, but no reason with a good feedback loop and an O2 sensor it shouldn't perform that mixture control function like an SU or Stromberg. The flange is probably best adapted to the stock intake, but they also make a 2V that should go right on the Pierce. Both systems are around 300 cfm, which may be a bit much for the 2.25's low speed characteristics. And they are pricey, of course. I'm going to try a 300 cfm carb first, and if that works, then we'll do the TBI. Of course, we won't tell anyone what we did, so we can sell the systems and make some money on the deal... Steve ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:20:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: resend of suspension question OK, I'll take a shot at it. First, we do sell the shock mount plate, but don't stock it: we've only sold a few in the last 3 years. They are pretty beefy, and rarely bend. The ones we sold were to repair corrosion damage to the shock mount post. The post should stick straight out, and the spring pad area be flat. There are curled edges front and rear to prevent spring binding. It's a beefy part: I wouldn't hesitate to heat it and straighten it, then retemper. A used one wil work good, too. This is a part very rarely replaced! There are a couple of ways to determine if you need new springs. One, how old are they? Coils need to be replaced about every 10 years on Range Rover, leafs, probably about 15 or so. More a function of time & gravity than use, unless heavy loads are often carried. The other common method is how the truck sits: does it sit level from the side and from the rear? (unloaded, of course) If it lists to port, or is higher in front than back, it's time. Also check tire clearance: while that varies with wheel and tire size, you should still see about 3-5" from the top of the tire to the apex of the fender opening. Even with big tires, the wheel arch should be nicely above the top of the tire. Ride quality changes too,l but that's harder to judge. Springs are usually less compliant as they settle down. Check the spring leafs themselves: is there wear in the steel where the shorter leaf rubs against it? If so, it's time. Do the leaves fit snugly one to another, or are there air gaps? New springs nestle tightly together. Hope that helps. Steve/BRITPAC ------------------------------------ From: Blair.Peterson@TRITON-HUB.TRIU.sprint.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:18:00 -0500 Subject: series spotted 3 days last week: series II or IIA 109SW parked in the fort mason lot along bay street. looked like a real veteran, painted dark green. had a huge yellow lens driving lamp mounted cyclops-style on the bumper between the two headlights. pulled in to check it out on my way home but it must have just left --could tell because the oil spot was still fresh... wednesday night: series IIA (or III?) 88 parked in the manzanita drive commuter lot off hwy 101 in mill valley. limestone, white 8-spoke wheels. headlights in both the IIA and III positions. this morning: poppy red series IIA 88 parked at the marina green. owner just out walking the dog or perhaps on a morning sail?? nice weekend, everyone. blair. ------------------------------------ From: "FHYap" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:33:53 -0800 Subject: Re: High Priced Parts/Range Rover Tires (no LR content) > From: Alan DuBoff > To: mendo_recce@off-road.com > Subject: Re: High Priced Parts/Range Rover Tires > Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 10:47 PM > >how common of an item to replace it is on a > Landcruiser. I still think that Toyotas have much better quality > control than LR products. Like I said before, my experience with my > Previa has been that the parts are definitely cheaper than LR parts and > some are much better quality. While someone on the list will have a story about someone with a Toyota that had problems, just about everyone I know with a Toyota (and many people have 'em) have found the quality control to be excellent. Not to say there aren't problems, like most of the (series 2) Camrys have defective original mufflers, etc. ... but the problems are not as numerous or as prevalent as with LR products. Many years ago the service department at Cole European warned me that I should not try to compare the quality of the Defender/Range Rover with my Landcruiser (FJ62 which I wish I had kept) because I would be sorely disappointed. Several years ago I was told by a productivity consultant doing research in Japan that quality control on Toyota vehicles could/would/did (?) fall because of a change in the production method in how Toyota did business with its vendors. Incidentally, I believe that Toyota started to hike the prices of its LC parts/service when it went upscale at the start of the '90s (with the 80 series). I noticed that the service flyers started to exclude or had "landcruiser prices higher" on their service flyers once it became fashionable to buy a LC. Instead of being a niche off-road vehicle (that many Toyota salespersons didn't even know existed in the '80s), the LC became the fashion statement for the '90s. BTW, just as LR folks go to Britpac to save over dealer parts, LC owners go to Specter (?) etc. Frank ------------------------------------ From: Bob Watson Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:48:52 -0800 Subject: Look out Discovery! Here comes Mercedes. http://www.usa.mercedes-benz.com/slk/media/press/mclass.html has a report on the soon to be forthcoming M-Class SUV from MB. In a nutshell: Good: price: mid 30's 4 wheel traction control & 4W ABS full time 4WD Box steel frame (not unibody) 7 pax seating V6 215HP engine Made in the USA (OK, that's not a "good" for everyone) Built by Mercedes Not So Good: 4W IFS & Torsion Bar Front Suspension (rear coils, though) Looks more like a mini-van Overall, if it's as good as it's Press Release, it looks pretty interesting... -- Bob W. ------------------------------------ From: Scott.Dickinson@Eng.Sun.COM (Scott Dickinson) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:45:22 -0800 Subject: near and off? On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Granville Pool wrote: [snippette] > >Is off side the non-drivers side? > > Yes. The near side is the kerb side. Now I am really confused here, because this means that the off side of a British car is the near side of an Amurikan one. But in Amurika we have passenger side and driver's sides. So if I am in the driver's side of Evan in Amurika, it should really be the off side of a proper English sedan, and the near side of a proper Amurikan one. But a proper Amurikan one does not have a near or off side, because there is no proper English in Amurika. At least from an English perspective. Thus near and off are really the same thing, at least when driving a wrong-side English made wagon in a non-proper ex-patriot country like these United States. Maybe we drive on the *Far Side*? Scott '91 RR GDE "Evan" LotGWPH... ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:00:16 +0000 Subject: RE: March Outing > Take a left > here and you're almost in the camp. > > Cheers, > > > Granny > > Thanks! I will update and document the directions page attached to the calender... I will try to build a "cut-and-paste-able" waypoint page for gps weenies I will also do the April trip ( though probably not for a week or so ) Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" tomw@best.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" http://www.fluentnet.com *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: James Howard Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:12:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: near and off? Near side and off side come from the days of travel by horse. The near side is the side you mount the horse from. The off side is the side where, if you try to mount the horse, the horse will throw you 'off'. Near side is the left side, and off side is the right side. James PS. I could be wrong about the above, but, it true to the best of my knowledge, which, for my twenty something years old brain, ain't much. ------------------------------------ From: BSharp4601@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:21:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: High priced parts Back around 1986, I had a T*y*ta Fj60 that developed a leak in the radiator. After numerous attempts to patch the seepage in the top tank my mechanic at the time found out that there were no tanks available for the unit and that the only fix was a new radiator... his cost at the time was $800.00 for the unit! Pretty tough to swallow now let alone ten years ago. My other car payment is a 928 (good phrase for a license plate frame) and the German philosophy of infalability applies equally here... they don't believe their parts will ever go bad so they only sell assemblies at high prices:-( Bob Sharp Tucson, Az. 96 Discovery 72 Series III (in need of lots of parts, but at least they're affordable) 82 928 (available) ------------------------------------ From: Michael Carradine Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 12:55:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Look out Discovery! At 10:48 AM 3/7/97 -0800, Bob Watson wrote: :Here comes Mercedes. :http://www.usa.mercedes-benz.com/slk/media/press/mclass.html has a :report on the soon to be forthcoming M-Class SUV from MB. ... :Overall, if it's as good as it's Press Release, it looks pretty :interesting... Kinda funny... the Web page leading 'News Bulletin' Java banner froze on the first frame proudly proclaiming "...NEWS BULL" ;) Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Unimog Network Int'l, Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _______________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:24:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Mendo Recce Mar 22/23 was Re: March Outing Jeremy Bartlett wrote: > snip > I don't have the lat longs handy, but Deer Creek Campground is reached > by heading up Elk Mtn. Rd. from Upper Lake (north end of Clear Lake). About > 8 miles (distance eyeballed from AAA map) up Elk Mtn Rd take a right on a dirt > road (from memory). This leads to Deer Valley Camp. > OOOOPs. That should be Deer VALLEY not creek. 'guess I'm thinking too much about water crossings. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:17:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Mendo Recce Mar 22/23 was Re: March Outing Tom Walsh wrote: > snip > I am building the web page with directions etc... but can't find deer > creek ( I can't find dear creek either ( I assume that was a typo ? :) ) > > Lat + long would be nice! I don't have the lat longs handy, but Deer Creek Campground is reached by heading up Elk Mtn. Rd. from Upper Lake (north end of Clear Lake). About 8 miles (distance eyeballed from AAA map) up Elk Mtn Rd take a right on a dirt road (from memory). This leads to Deer Valley Camp. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: Michael Penwarden <0006610577@mcimail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 16:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: >J**p owners and the Darwin Awards -- [ From: Michael Penwarden * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Tall tale, I'm sure. But still -- this would never happen to a Rover owner ... >Darwin Award Candidate >---------------------- > >Seems a couple got a brand new, top of the line, Jeep Cherokee for Christmas >and drove it to visit relatives in Michigan. The guys decided to do that >male bonding ritual of duck hunting. So they load up the Cherokee with >decoys, food, beer, guns, warm clothes, etc and head off for the lake. >Now it's a little known fact that when duck hunting in cold climates like >that it's common to drive the truck out onto the ice. It's also a little >known fact that, to break a hole in the ice for the decoys, a stick of >dynamite is commonly used. Now this particular stick of dynamite had a short >fuse, estimated at 20 seconds or so. Normally you put the dynamite on the >ice, light the fuse, and run away. But with only 20 seconds they didn't want >to do that, they might slip while running. So the guy lights the fuse and >throws the stick of dynamite out onto the ice. >Their well trained Labrador Retriever dashes out onto the ice and, just as >he's done several times before, picks up the stick (of lit dynamite) in his >mouth and starts running back to the group of guys. The guys start yelling >at the dog but, as he's played fetch so many times before, he just keeps >bringing the stick back to his master. One of the guys thinks fast and loads >his shotgun, and shoots the dog. As it's loaded with bird shot the dog isn't >hurt much and is confused. The guy shoots the dog again. The dog gets >scared and runs, stick in his mouth, under the Cherokee. >BOOM!! >The Cherokee is now at the bottom of the lake. The insurance company won't >pay up because it was destroyed due to an illegal use of explosives. The >first payment of $475 was due December 15. Only 59 more to go... > ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:51:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Open Road (was Re: Look out Discovery!) >Here comes Mercedes. >http://www.usa.mercedes-benz.com/slk/media/press/mclass.html has a >report on the soon to be forthcoming M-Class SUV from MB. All, There's also a brief about this M-Class (which is supposed to be on sale next fall) with some pretty good photos in the new _Open_Road_ magazine that I picked up at the supermarket yesterday. Also covered are the Subaru Forester (to be on sale this summer), Dodge Durango (based upon the new--ugly--Dakota), and some other interesting stuff. Road test on '97 D90 SW. Article on RN off-road school. Blurbs about new development of more luxurious GMC Yukon, Lincoln(!) SUV based upon Ford Expedition, two prototype Jeeps (future Wrangler-replacement and the Wrangler-based four-door, steel-roof Safari which I actually quite like). Story on taking a Range Rover through Chunnel (haven't read). Volvo V70 Hunter which is a Subaru Legacy Outback-like AWD station wagon for the Euro market. We'll be getting a version here as well, apparently. Best of all, though--now that it's Mendo recce time again--is the article on the radical show vehicle from Ford. You guessed it: an SUV based upon... The Taurus SVO!!! So this confirms that what we saw at Crabtree, two years ago, was an early prototype! Cheers, Granny ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:59:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Open Road (was Re: Look out Discovery!) Granville Pool wrote: > snip > Best of all, though--now that it's Mendo recce time again--is the article on > the radical show vehicle from Ford. You guessed it: an SUV based upon... > The Taurus SVO!!! So this confirms that what we saw at Crabtree, two years > ago, was an early prototype! Amazing. But I suspect the story's a little different. From what I saw of the underside of Charlie's vehicle it looked pretty stock. I rather suspect that there's a lurker for FORD on the list who got the idea from us rather than actually field testing the concept. :) cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:50:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Look out Discovery! This illustrates the history of the British motor industry in spades. Hit upon a good concept, then stick doggedly to it while your competetiors speed past. Design an exceptional vehicle, tops in it's class, then screw it together badly. Market the image over the substance. Then wonder what happened to your market. Perhaps the folks at Rover should read the biography of Sorichiro (sp?) Honda. What a concept: anticipate the market, rather than react to it? Regardless of how well anything's put together, new still outsells old. The Chevy C/K 10 is, what, 9 years old now? Mechanically bulletproof, and downright cheap to buy, and pleasant looking, but the new Ford F150 is handily outselling it, despite some teething problems. Discovery is 8 years old now, and will soldier on for at least one , and maybe 2, more years. How many more new models (like the Mercedes, Lincoln, Suzuki, Lexus, et al) and redesigned existing ones will cycle through the market while Discovery doggegly holds on? Rover knows Discovery needs updating, too. Did they think it would hold on like the classic Range Rover or the venerable Defender? Has any one seen the February sales numbers from LRNA yet? Steve ------------------------------------ From: Michael Carradine Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 14:53:43 -0800 Subject: Re: >J**p owners and the Darwin Awards At 04:30 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Michael Penwarden wrote: : :Tall tale, I'm sure. But still -- this would never happen to a Rover owner ... This story was recently sent to us at the LROA in hopes of getting published, except it featured a Land Rover and the localle was central California. The story is all bullshit because ducks don't hang around when it's icy and lakes freeze over. That's why they migrate (dduuhh!). And in the case of the central California version, lakes and marshes don't freeze in the valley, period! ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== 72-88, 89-RR Land Rovers Architect [________] www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html 510-988-0900 _______.._(o)__.(o)__..o^^ POBox 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 :>Darwin Award Candidate :>---------------------- :> :>Seems a couple got a brand new, top of the line, Jeep Cherokee for Christmas :>and drove it to visit relatives in Michigan. The guys decided to do that :>male bonding ritual of duck hunting. So they load up the Cherokee with :>decoys, food, beer, guns, warm clothes, etc and head off for the lake. :>Now it's a little known fact that when duck hunting in cold climates like :>that it's common to drive the truck out onto the ice. It's also a little :>known fact that, to break a hole in the ice for the decoys, a stick of :>dynamite is commonly used. Now this particular stick of dynamite had a short :>fuse, estimated at 20 seconds or so. Normally you put the dynamite on the :>ice, light the fuse, and run away. But with only 20 seconds they didn't want :>to do that, they might slip while running. So the guy lights the fuse and :>throws the stick of dynamite out onto the ice. :>Their well trained Labrador Retriever dashes out onto the ice and, just as :>he's done several times before, picks up the stick (of lit dynamite) in his :>mouth and starts running back to the group of guys. The guys start yelling :>at the dog but, as he's played fetch so many times before, he just keeps :>bringing the stick back to his master. One of the guys thinks fast and loads :>his shotgun, and shoots the dog. As it's loaded with bird shot the dog isn't :>hurt much and is confused. The guy shoots the dog again. The dog gets :>scared and runs, stick in his mouth, under the Cherokee. :>BOOM!! :>The Cherokee is now at the bottom of the lake. The insurance company won't :>pay up because it was destroyed due to an illegal use of explosives. The :>first payment of $475 was due December 15. Only 59 more to go... ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 17:18:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: resend of suspension question >How does one know if the leaf springs should be replaced? Is there a certain >height some component should be above another or the ground? Clayton, I replaced my springs when I first bought Daisy for a couple of reasons. First they were flat, i.e., there was no concavity (for lack of a better word) left in severalof them. Second, one had a broken leaf. I thought that if I was to replace one, I should do all four at the same time. One thing that I did do, and would suggest against, was to get two sets of driver's side springs. I haven't noticed any major difference for doing so. > >The bottom plate under the springs, and where the shocks attach down low, is >bent, or so it seems. BP doesn't sell these bottom plates. Are they supposed >to be bent? It looks like the shocks were fully compressed in offroading, >hard!! and bent that plate. Does it look like the bend is uniform across the length of the Plate? Like it was done in a press? My plates have bends of this type in them. I wouldn't worry about it. > >I presume that the way to determine if the shocks need to be replaced is by >the jumping on the bumper test: if it continues to undulate, then replace. >Mine aren't undulating particularly, but I assume they are pretty old. If they're not leaking, save the money until they start to do so.... :-) > >Thanks, > >Clayton > > > > ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: "Walter C. Swain" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:25:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: >J**p owners and the Darwin Awards I don't know why this has to be duck hunting; ice fishing seems like the logical activity du jour. Aside from that, the guy doesn't qualify for the Darwin Award since he only removed the J**p from the gene pool, and mostly they don't breed anyway. Rgds, Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1969 LR Dormobile- "Bertha" * * Davis, California | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Michael Carradine wrote: > At 04:30 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Michael Penwarden wrote: > : :Tall tale, I'm sure. But still -- this would never happen to a Rover owner ... > > This story was recently sent to us at the LROA in hopes of getting published, > except it featured a Land Rover and the localle was central California. > > The story is all bullshit because ducks don't hang around when it's icy and > lakes freeze over. That's why they migrate (dduuhh!). And in the case of > the central California version, lakes and marshes don't freeze in the valley, > period! ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 17:28:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Weber 1 bbl. on a 2.25 >I'm well versed with variable venturi carbs (SU's and Strombergs), and I've >been using them for the last 20 years on my Triumphs. They do work great at >altitude. One year we went out to Boulder for the Triumph National, and one >guy in our caravan had a TR4 with Weber DCOE's (side drafts). His mechanic >jetted it for sea level, but he wasn't warned he needed a box 'o jets to get >over Eisenhower. He was down on his knees, looking like a diesel (sorry, John >O.), while the rest of us were still capable of 55-60. I'd like SU's on the >2.25. I had a '68 Spitfire with dual carbs. The thing ran like the devil was after it. But I spent a lot of hours on the weekends adjusting the carbs matching the air flow thru them. I had one of those gauges with the plastic ball in the tube...a fun car! > >Holley is making a line of TBI systems for all kinds of applications, >designed as aftermarket add ons for carbureted engines, complete with all the >brain boxes. One set up is for 4 cyl. Jeeps, where the 2.5 displacement is >pretty close to 2.25. Airflow is different, but no reason with a good >feedback loop and an O2 sensor it shouldn't perform that mixture control >function like an SU or Stromberg. The flange is probably best adapted to the >stock intake, but they also make a 2V that should go right on the Pierce. >Both systems are around 300 cfm, which may be a bit much for the 2.25's low >speed characteristics. And they are pricey, of course. I'm going to try a 300 >cfm carb first, and if that works, then we'll do the TBI. > >Of course, we won't tell anyone what we did, so we can sell the systems and >make some money on the deal... > >Steve > Let me know what the results are. I may be interested :-( BTW, got the NATO cans today. They look great! You were right, the 10 L can is perfect for 90 wt. If I keep adding things like this to Daisy, I soon won't have any room for the camping gear. Well, I guess I could always leave Nancy at home, uh, I don't think so.... ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: Michael Penwarden <0006610577@mcimail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 20:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: >J**p owners and the Darwin Awards -- [ From: Michael Penwarden * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Yeah -- I spotted that stuff about the ducks, too. But what the hell -- sorry to gum up everyone's mailbox with urban myths. In other news, I've put a whopping 750 miles on my Disco (which, if you recall, replaced my ailing '94 D90), and am loving it -- although I'm still getting used to being that comfortable in a 4x4! It's so nice, in fact, that I'm having trouble getting up the courage to actually take it off road ... As for the Toyota vs LR argument, I can't say anything about LCs, but the '90 Toyota 4x4 I traded in for my D90 last year ran for over 100,000 miles without a single problem. On the other hand, the 65K service -- which included nothing more than a tune up and a new clutch -- lightened my wallet by a shocking $2500! MP ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 17:50:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Look out Discovery! >Here comes Mercedes.s it's Press Release, it looks pretty >interesting... > >-- Bob W. > Actually, I think the Jeep Dakar concept vehicle looks pretty good. Um, taller, narrower tires, and I'd seriously think about buying one. Oh, get rid of the night scope and other tidbits though. ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 17:40:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Weber 1 bbl. a second reply to Steve >Hope that helps. Have fun this weekend. Let us know what you found. > >Steve > It's always something! I pulled a groin muscle about a month ago (working on Daisy!). I keep on reinjuring the dang thing, lifting, working on you-know-what, etc., so I'm really going to take it easy for a bit and see if I can get back to where I can kick the dog and kids and stuff ;-) first. I do have to go out and collect 200 lbs of schist, no not sh*t, for a minerals seminar for teachers this weekend. That should really make me feel good! Daisy ran very nicely on the way home from work today. I still notice a minor amount of stumbling, probably something a person who isn't used to driving it would even notice. But it's still there. So at any rate. I'll spend some time on the carb, timing, etc., and if I'm still having problems, will probably give you a call for a .175 and a .l80 jet on Monday. For all my present problems, I really like the simplicity of the Weber compared to other carbs I've had apart. It's simple, easy to work on, and I can almost invision how the whole thing works! Besides, the engine, with only 250 miles on it, is still pretty tight....I'll get this thing licked yet. I'm printing out your, and everyone else's, advice, so I can make sure to check it all out. Thank goodness for the cumulative experience of the folks here! ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 17:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Nylock nuts These questions about suspension replacements got me thinking. When I replaced my springs, I really torqued the nylock nuts on. Now I would like to loosen them and retorque them to spec. My reasoning is that if they're too tight, they will not allow the shackles and springs to flex and interact as they should. Is it wise to try reusing the nylocks I've got (they're only a year old), or should I replace the lazy buggers with (8) new ones? Lesson: Buy a torque wrench if you already don't have one. ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 18:03:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Open Road (was Re: Look out Discovery!) > two >prototype Jeeps (future Wrangler-replacement and the Wrangler-based >four-door, steel-roof Safari which I actually quite like). >Cheers, > > >Granny > That's the Dakar, right? My feelings exactly. If LR isn't careful, Chrysler Corp. may just steal a lot more of this market away from them. Especialy if the price is right. ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 18:10:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Look out Discovery! >This illustrates the history of the British motor industry in spades. Hit >upon a good concept, then stick doggedly to it while your competetiors speed >past. Design an exceptional vehicle, tops in it's class, then screw it >together badly. Market the image over the substance. Then wonder what >happened to your market. Kinda reminds me of the Datsun 1600 and the MGs and Triumphs. Or even worse, the British motorcycle industy! I always wanted a Triumph, BSA, or better yet, Norton Commando, in high school. By the time I could afford one, they were all gone. Replaced by Hondas and Yamahas. You know, I still would like to play around with a Commando. Who would want to be seen riding a Honda Dream??? ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:21:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Open Road (was Re: Look out Discovery!) Dale, >>prototype Jeeps (future Wrangler-replacement and the Wrangler-based >>four-door, steel-roof Safari which I actually quite like). >That's the Dakar, right? My feelings exactly. If LR isn't careful, >Chrysler Corp. may just steal a lot more of this market away from them. >Especialy if the price is right. Right; Dakar. Yes, and don't forget: Some American company bought the U.S. rights to Kinetic suspension. Lloyd Allison thinks it's G.M. I think it's Chrysler. Chrysler is the one with several models with all-coil solid axle suspension, not G.M. How about a Dakar with Kinetic suspension? I'd want one if it's affordable. Granny ------------------------------------ From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:35:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylock nuts > > These questions about suspension replacements got me thinking. When I > replaced my springs, I really torqued the nylock nuts on. Now I would like > to loosen them and retorque them to spec. My reasoning is that if they're > too tight, they will not allow the shackles and springs to flex and interact > as they should. > > Is it wise to try reusing the nylocks I've got (they're only a year old), > or should I replace the lazy buggers with (8) new ones? > > ----- > Dale W. Avery Here's some old mail on the subject wherein I tried to explained to a "large format photographer" why it is OK to "break in" a tie-rod end ny-loc nut with a bolt that has a hex-head on it. (They just spin in the taper if one can't put a lot of pressure on the assy) Of course I don't know what I'm talking about so don't even read it. ~bg If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. ============================================================================ The nylon in a Nyloc nut is only there to keep the nut from vibrating off, *if* the "primary" torque on the nut is lost. It's there only to get you home. If you can't unscrew the nut with your fingers, it is working. All fasteners have a limited duty cycle. *Any* nut or bolt that has been torqued to spec then undone, 10 times, has lost 50% of its original strength. Quotes from "Fastener Standards" sixth edition, Industrial Fasteners Institute re Prevailing Torque Fasteners (Nylocs) __Reusability. Prevailing off-torque values tend to decline with each installation. Rate of decline varies with different product designs. If frequent in-service disassembly is expected, a design with a slower drop off of its prevailing off-torque capacity might be considered. ... Nylon is most frequently used because of its rigidity and superior memory properties. However it has temperature, ... limitations The major disadvantage of free-running types (cotter pin-bg) is that when the break-loose resistance is overcome, either through loss of fastener pre-load or ineffectiveness of the accessory device (cotter pin-bg), further resistance to fastener loosening becomes essentially zero and eventual disengagement of the mating parts is a distinct possibility. In contrast, prevailing-torque locking fasteners retain a continuing resistance to removal rotation even after the fastener pre-load is fully dissipated Chemical reaction locking fasteners are mainly suited to applications intended to be permanent; they have little if any re-use potential. For these reasons, prevailing-torque locking fasteners enjoy a degree of popularity beyond that of the other two types. end quotes Here is the spec for a 3/8-16 prevailing torque bolt. About the size of the nut in question for a Rover rod end. (There are no industry standards for nuts, but they will be similar.) first on torque 110 in/#s first off torque 14 in/#s fifth off torque 9 in/#s There is a large torque required to form the threads in the nylon, but after the threads are formed, the torque required to move the nut is reduced by 80%. Putting the nut onto a good bolt with two spanners, just enough to overcome that initial thread forming 110 in/#s, then puts us into the 14 in/#s area that the little lady can put enough pressure on the taper to hold. It does *not* change the back-off prevailing-torque by any significant amount. Regards, bg ------------------------------------ From: Scott.Dickinson@Eng.Sun.COM (Scott Dickinson) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:03:58 -0800 Subject: March Cuisine Granville Pool wrote: [snip] (RE: March Outing) :> the main ones for this area are Potato Hill and :> Bartlett Mtn., another that'd be nice is Elk Mountain. Sounds like elk stew with spuds and pears. La cuisine du Mendo, ala' Granville? I better bring my Dutch oven and toss in a March Hare :) Scott (2 beers into Happy Hr.@Sun) '91 RR GDE "Evan" LotGWPH... ------------------------------------ From: James Howard Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 20:29:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: SI for sale, $2500 My Dad just called me to tell me there was an ad in Hemmings Motor News of a SI 80" for sale in Arizona for $2500. Said good frame, runs. He didn't have the phone number, but if anyone is interested, my arm can be twisted to go check it out. Now that we have a Range Rover, I would sell my SIII for it. James PS which is slower, an SI or a 1947 MG Y-Type? ------------------------------------ From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:53:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Weber 1 bbl. on a 2.25 At 5:28 PM 3/7/97 -0800, Dale W. Avery wrote: > If I keep adding things like this to Daisy, I >soon won't have any room for the camping gear. Well, I guess I could always >leave Nancy at home, uh, I don't think so.... Thats why I have a 109 two door. I now have a compartment that holds 8 one quart bottles of oil. My camping gear and everything fits in the 109! including the kitchen sink,,,, two of them ;^) I got most of the second tall cabinet built last weekend. I still need to get metal for the Doors (Should I name one Jim Morrison?) and the shelves. I'm leaving one tall cabinet open and putting shelves in the other tall cabinet. I have both tall cabinets right behind the front seats. I've decided to velcro head rests to the side of the cabinets. The Dormobile cabinet has a fold up seat for company. The custom one I'm working on has a throne (AKA Porta potie) opening at the base. A little over half the Portapotie fits inside the cabinet. Hey, if you eat a lot of veggies one can come in very handy. With any sort of luck, I can get the door to the second sink cabinet and the door to the oil storage cabinet AKA refrigerator stand, made up over the weekend. I just plan to bend flanges at top and bottom of the doors. That sheetmetal brake I purchased sure comes in handy while creating an interior, but I'll be happy when I'm finished with it and its sold and out of my living room. One of the problems of not having a garage. Gads once I get all the doors bent and the shelves formed, i may actually be finished with it. You locals please start yearning for a compact 36 inch sheetmetal brake Its a 36 inch sheet metal brake plus the stand. It bends 36 inch wide 20 guage steel, thicker aluminum or thicker sheets of sheet steel that is not as long. It cost me $360 plus shipping. I'll let it go for $250 when I'm finished. Did I mention that I have one of my front seats, both arm rests and the front third headliner at an upholstry shop? No more Ms Duct tape. Bit by bit the Green Rover is being transformed. Now if only Nick can make the trip with the new rear end. I'm tired of being stuck near home on front wheel drive only. Ya all take care TeriAnn Wakeman "Large format photographers look Santa Cruz California at the world upside down and twakeman@scruznet.com backwards" ------------------------------------ From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:53:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylock nuts At 6:35 PM 3/7/97 -0800, William L. Grouell wrote: >Here's some old mail on the subject wherein I tried to explained to a "large >format photographer" why it is OK to "break in" a tie-rod end ny-loc nut with >a bolt that has a hex-head on it. Hunh??? The last time I was playing with tie rod ends was a couple of years ago when I got my swivel balls rebuilt. Did you send me this e-mail then? I don't remember it. Of well its kinda hard to read when you are looking at it upside down and backwards. Do you really keep your old e-mails that long??? Amazing TeriAnn Wakeman "Large format photographers look Santa Cruz California at the world upside down and twakeman@scruznet.com backwards" ------------------------------------ From: "FHYap" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 20:06:49 -0800 Subject: Re: SI for sale, $2500 > From: James Howard > PS which is slower, an SI or a 1947 MG Y-Type? > According to the LROI Land Rover Buyer, "Long journeys are a chore unless you have all day, because a Series 1 is flat out at around 50 mph ..." I know someone who drove a Series 1 from SF to Tahoe .. and said he would never do it again. Frank ------------------------------------ From: Granville Pool Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 20:46:51 -0800 Subject: March Mendo Recce: More Directions Hi, all, I've finally dug out my USFS Mendocino Forest map. The easy (but longer) route to Deer Valley Campground that I told you about (same route Jeremy described) is as follows: Take Elk Mountain Road north from Upper Lake (from Highway 20). Elk Mtn. Rd. is County Road 301 (USFS M1). About half a mile north of Upper Lake is the Upper Lake Ranger Station. From there it's about 10 miles (very crudely scaled on map) to Middle Creek Camp which is a staging area for OHVers. All flat land so far. Now you start up the mountain. About 2.5 miles or so to the turnoff for my preferred (shorter but rougher) route. Another, oh, maybe two miles to the second turnoff which is designated as 16N01 on the USFS map. From Elk Mtn. Road (M1), turn right and it's about 4 miles to Deer Valley Camp. If you take my route (the one that's about 2.5 or so past Middle Creek Camp), there is no designation on the USFS map I now have (1989 edition). >From the turnoff, go right (easterly), it's about 3 miles or less to the intersection of 16N01. Take a left and you're there. I wish I could find my older USFS map as the route designation for my route was shown and I seem to recall that *it* was then 16N01 and the other was something else (and that the old map was the correct one!). So be careful about relying on the route numbers (even if you can find the signs which show them). Attention Bob Bernard: Have your old map handy? If so, would you check these route designations? Thanks! If you can find an OHV trail map at the Middle Creek Camp, check the routes on that as it's probably more trustworthy. I had one of those but don't know where it is either. Wait!! I found my OHV trail map! It calls my route "Lower Deer Valley Road" and it is, as I thought, 16N01. The other (Jeremy's) route is "Upper Deer Valley Road" and is 16N20. Believe what you will! YMMV, Granny ------------------------------------ From: GElam30092@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 01:30:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: XD resolved Without wasting a great deal of bandwidth, I would like to announce the arrival of our newly acquired "XD". I=92ve posted a message regarding t= he purchase to the coil spring owners list so I won=92t bore you guys with t= he details. =20 Anyway, while there=92s no buyers regret, I=92m not sure that a double-do= se of Discos along with a IIA is the wisest move we=92re ever made. Oh well, i= f logic was the first requirement of ownership, I=92m not sure that any of = us would survive! =20 Gerry Elam PHX AZ 95 Disco "Great White" 63 Series IIA " Soldado Sangrando" and XD makes three. ------------------------------------ From: James Howard Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:30:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: SI for sale, $2500 On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, FHYap wrote: > > From: James Howard > > > PS which is slower, an SI or a 1947 MG Y-Type? > > > > According to the LROI Land Rover Buyer, "Long journeys are a chore unless > you have all day, because a Series 1 is flat out at around 50 mph ..." Dad's Y-type will do 70, but takes forever to get there. It has real tall (non stock) gears. Imagine a 3500 lb car, with a 70 bhp 1.25 litre engine. 70 hp because Dad hot rodded it - I think stock was more like 50. The car was definitely built before the Motorway was. On the other hand, it sure is a lot quieter than my Series III, and with leather, wood, and a sunroof, a lot more luxurious, too. A Series One would be good around here. I rarely take the SIII on the Interstates anymore - I like using it to explore the National Forest that surrounds Flagstaff. An SI would be fun because it is smaller and a lot less refined. Trouble is, I have so much swork in the SIII that I couldn't bear to let her go. Ephraim is the name the PO gave her, but somehow, that just doesn't seem to fit. She seems to have the character of a frigate of the Royal Navy in the era of Napoleon. Always faithful, but needing a lot of work to keep her shipshape. James ------------------------------------ From: Michael Carradine Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 23:36:35 -0800 Subject: Re: SI for sale, $2500 At 08:29 PM 3/7/97 -0700, James Howard wrote: :My Dad just called me to tell me there was an ad in Hemmings Motor News :of a SI 80" for sale in Arizona for $2500. Said good frame, runs. He :didn't have the phone number, but if anyone is interested, my arm can be :twisted to go check it out. Hi James, Sounds interesting! What year/wheelbase it and what are its salient features? Do you have the phone number? -Michael ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== 72-88, 89-RR Land Rovers Architect [________] www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html 510-988-0900 _______.._(o)__.(o)__..o^^ POBox 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 ------------------------------------ End of Digest