From: mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: Digest for Mendo_Recce: 7/28/1995 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Reply-To: mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce Land Rover mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Re: British Pacific online Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 23:27:03 PDT > They will probably be contacting Ben to get on the list soon I suspect we will > be able to email orders soon. > > Jeremy, Steve promised a quick turn around on the parts estimate. I'm extreamy > interested to see the price comparison. > > > TeriAnn > > Is this a good idea? Seems there discussion might be quite biased when it comes to vendors. Guess it really doesn't matter, though. I've dealt quite a bit with Steve and anything I'd say here I would say to him... Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Subject: trip Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 23:47:13 PDT Sorry to say, I won't be making it to Paradise this week-end. I have a IIa trans/transfer all over my garage floor that I promised to a guy LAST Sunday! In fact, I was working on it last night trying my best to finish up. I started tearing the clutch release apart and noticed that one of the bushings was in 3 pieces... No one makes this part any more! Ran to Coast to Coast this afternoon. Found a bush with the same ID & OD, just need to trim it down 1/4". Should finish the thing tomorrow. Too bad Paradise is sooo far away, or I'd come up for just the one night! Really wanted to try the RR out in the snow and mud, too! Guess Ben will have to make it without me. Remember to stop and walk around a little, Ben. Ben.. Ben, are you still awake? That was quite a trip back the last time! Get up at 8am, 4 wheel all day and drive back 10+ hours to Ridgecrest... I'm getting too old for that! Plan right now is to be at Portland and set up a trip for Oct 9 down here. How many would be interested in a trip in the desert? Would like to know how easy or hard to make it... Lots of cool stuff to see. Have a fun safe time. Guess I'll get some mud under the RR another time... Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:32:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Spoto Subject: LCLR Digest needed TWIMC, The system I use to reach the internet was down today and bounced all my mail. At least I assume it bounced since there was nothing in the mail box. So could some one please forward to me todays Left Coast Land Rover Digest. As soon as a copy arrives I'll mail the list to halt further copies being sent. Waste of band and all that. TIA Regards Tom Spoto ...1 x 67 P.U., 2 x 72 S.W. all 88 petrols ... tspoto@marie.az.comx ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:00:26 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: trip You wrote: > >Plan right now >is to be at Portland and set up a trip for Oct 9 down here. How many would >be interested in a trip in the desert? Would like to know how easy or hard >to make it... Lots of cool stuff to see. Have a fun safe time. Guess I'll >get some mud under the RR another time... >Kelly Minnick > A desert run sounds fun. Too bad you can't make the paradisenotarallye. Planning on PPMGC if that comes through in mid Sept? Cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 06:57:32 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: UK parts order /construction industry You wrote: > > That's called "bid shopping", a highly unethical practice. The proper thing > to do is to give him the list and let him work up a complete price. snip > > Seems to me, as an impartial observer, that you should take a lesson from > bidding procedures in the construction industry, also known as RFP's > (Request For Proposal's). snip > Michael Carradine, Architect > Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 .plan available > _________________________________________________________________________ > Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html > A good ethical point but, yes and no. If BP had known fixed prices I'd agree with you. But, I think I'll disagree here since we're in a bit of a grey (ooops gray?) area. RFPs almost always apply to service based bids and suppliers who, as a function of the business they're in and need to respond to varying scopes of work, routinely vary their costs. Based on the number of RFPs/bid estimates I've solicited and responded to I'd say we're in a different field here. In my experience auto parts suppliers selling to individuals do not routinely bid prices to their customers, the price on the shelf is what it goes for. "Parts is parts." Each parts dealer and potential purchaser usually has a pretty good idea of their competitor's prices of the day since they're public knowledge (for the most part). This is quite different from RFP based industrys where the price of the day is unknown and it is not unusual for bidders to bid items at a lost for strategic reasons. For example RN's prices are known and with a few surprising exceptions are significantly higher than UK prices. So we didn't bother with RN. What we have from Dingocroft are price quotes not bid estimates. They FAX the costs because their list isn't published in LROI. A critical difference, as you know bid estimates often change as the job progresses, assumptions in proposals get violated etc.; this is what contracts are for. Costs/prices don't change ("fixed price"). Contracting (in the day to day use of the word) in auto parts purchases, as far as I know, is unheard of. One of the problems we've got here is that BP's prices are apparently not fixed but are, as Kelly pointed out quite justifiably, subject to variation dependent on the buyer and any negotiation leverage they are willing to present. I also find this somewhat disconcerting. In other words BP is currently running a pseudo-bid business in a traditionally fixed price industry. However, in this situation I have no problem with supplying Dingocroft's prices to BP to compete with. I see little difference between this and BP looking at Craddocks published costs, for example, and trying to meet or beat those. I would prefer in the long term, however, to see BP prices stabilize. This would be less hassle, and fairer for those who don't, can't, or whatever, order from the UK. I hope BP 's effort to compete with UK suppliers does not turn them into a true bidding shop which in the long run will probably not be good for their business. So although its getting hazy I'd say we're closer to price shopping than bid shopping. Cheers, Jeremy P.S. Should we start a union affiliated with the AFL-CIO? I can see it now the Land Rover Owner/Restorer's Union, Branch 237, Teamsters :) ------------------------------------ From: BobandSueB@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:16:52 -0400 Cc: minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: save the D90! In a message dated 95-07-27 13:18:45 EDT, you write: > > As for body damage, I think Bob and/or Sue are a better judge for >that. I assume body damage so that I won't be pissed when it happens (I have >a nice dent on the tranny crossmember from Owl's Head--that's what I get for >going first The only body damage we have sustained in the 10 years we have been driving "Sherman" on the High Lake trails was to a tail light, when Bob backed into a tree pulling a Slow Zukie up a rock step. Bob forgot to stop after he got the Zukie unstuck. No biggie. And then there was that time........well......don't want to scare you off. :) Body damage is a rare occurance up here. Besides, the hardest trail, into Morris Lake, is probably still snowed in. And we don't do that trail. We just sit at the top and watch other people try it. Hope to see you both this weekend. Sue ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:04:51 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Granny's departure time I've decided not to put on my big tyres. Noticed too much wander in my steering when I drove the Snark home last night. I'm afraid that the big tyres would exacerbate that effect too much. Also if we're doing snow and mud it's likely that I'll be better off with my little SS TSLs. So, right now, I still have to put on my Selectro hubs and check the rest of my fluids, etc. Then pack my stuff. So I'm aiming at a departure sometime between 2:00 and 4:00 P.M. Monitor Channel 7 Granny ------------------------------------ From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Gooey's Departure Time Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 08:48:00 PDT Okay, here's the drill...Gooey will depart Sonoma Valley appx 5:30 PM today (Friday). This puts us in Davis/Sacramento between 6:30 and 7:00. If anyone wants to like up along the way let me know before noon. Planned route is Cal 12 to Interstate 80 to interstate 5 to US 99/70 to Clark Rd etc... Gerry 72 88 ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: ParaPlan.. Looking at departing Berkely about 7:30 (right, Jimmy?) and heading on 80 to SAC and then on up 99/70 then 70 (guess that is the prefered route to Paradise). Assuming that holds and given the times posted earlier, looks like we should roll in around midnight (give or take an hour). We will monitor seven. Haven't heard from any others so I guess that it will just be Jimmy and myself. So, unless we do hear from someone before internet connectivity is lost, once we get our act(s) together, we'll pull the blocks and roll. I will check the list before I leave work which will probably be about 5:30 (though I still hope to be able to head out a little earlier). See everyone there!!!! Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) ------------------------------------ From: "Kerner, Robert" Subject: See ya Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 11:37:00 PDT I am going to lunch and then my going away party, so I won't be logged in again. See everyone when I get back on line. I wonder if my going away present is a Land-Rover part. I couldn't be that lucky, besides these are computer geeks. Rob Kerner ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:28:28 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Re: ParaPlan.. >Looking at departing Berkely about 7:30 (right, Jimmy?) Righty-o mate. I'll see you out there at 7:30. Is it the Marina exit?? -- Jimmy Patrick "Get off your *** and contribute rather than jimmyp@netcom.com being a leech upon others work and efforts." --some anonymous wanker ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:01:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Re: ParaPlan.. Jimmy... You ever had one (or, as I, many) of those times when the mind goes blank? Whadda you mean, which exit? Damn. You had to ask. If you hadn't have asked I'd have known. God, I hate it when people make me forget stuff when I know I know the answer. Ah, no, wait... Yeah, yeah. There it is. That's it -- I hope... Gillman exit off I80 is, I believe, the correct one. It is the next exit north of the University exit. Head east on Gilman until you see a Volvo racing a Land-Rover to a parking spot... Oh, yeah, you're right, you aren't there yet. Well, anyway, if you did see that, that would be the REI parking lot. See you there!!! Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:55:52 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Departure time update Looks like I'll be rolling out about 2:30 P.M. today (Friday). See you all soon. Hope I maybe meet up with some on the way there! Hope my Rover holds together. Unfortunately could not install the hubs because one o-ring and two set screws are missing. I'll have to order some parts from Mile-Marker so I can get them on before Portland. Ch 7 Granville ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:30:56 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: On my way! I'm off the cyperair and on the CBair. See you there, Granny ------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Just about on my way... In case anyone is keeping track at this point I am just about to try and shut things down here at work and get myself rolling to Paradise! So, for anyone who hasn't left yet, see you there and for anyone who can't make it, too bad but hope to see you next time. Jim "Off to Paradise" Russell Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) ------------------------------------ From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Dead Server here? Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 10:48:00 PDT Hi all? Unless you've all fallen off the edge of existence and aren't posting; then my server here must be dead and I don't know what's going on. Assuming that to be false: Pair O Dice non-participants: Hey, I am planning on making the trek to Humbug road and environs next weekend. I haven't been up there since about 1978 when there were reputedly Flammulated Owls breeding up there; never did find 'em. Really looking forward to it. Granville: The Lillypad has just returned from visiting the mom/dad in BC and brought me back some Okanogan Spring Ale, Sleeman Cream Ale and ta...da... Granville Island Lager! Interesting stuff. I know you prefer that 90w beer from Ireland but if you grovel appropriately I might manage to save a bottle until Saturday. Gerry ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Transfer Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 22:00:10 PDT Thought I would finish this silly transmission/transfer box today. Finished the bushing for the clutch release mech. Tore apart the rear output shaft to put in a new one (the bush & shaft between the front output and rear output was worn - like it had never seen oil!) and found that the thrust washer on the high-speed gear was grooved. Actually, it has kind of welded/ spalled onto the high speed gear. So I said, 'Great - try to finish this thing only to find 10 more parts that need replaced'. So I pick up the phone and cal BP (Next day service from here). That will be $24. Say what? Marty told me that LR had a huge price increase in Jan. Yeah, I know. The 3% thing? Oh, no. This part went up 100%. Hmm! So I get off the phone and call AB. Same price (BTW, part #90217488)... Well, I know 2nd gear washer (267572) was 3.5lbs from cradock and 3rd gear (RTC1962) was 3.14lbs. Guess I should have asked for those prices! I know 239272 (split ring) was 1.58lbs. and $5.48 from BP. OK, for the following, each of these shafts cost between $150 and $175 from BP. This is what we paid: Rear output (591429 & 8566) 35.61lbs Main shaft (264250) 36.75 lbs Lay shaft (528703) 29.40 lbs I guess I did not know the secret password. Either they have cheap fixed prices, or I'm only going to use them in an emergency... That is just MY opinion. Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ End of Digest