From: mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: Digest for Mendo_Recce: 7/24/1995 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Reply-To: mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce Land Rover mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Re: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 23:03:45 PDT Cc: mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Never seen the problem in the RR. The series would have to be towed to get to that speed! Is your fuel filter clean!? Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 08:34:14 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Hi-Lift/Jackall source? In message <199507220336.UAA05985@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> writes: > > Roger you need a hi-lynch not a hi-lift :o! > > > > Or is it time for a Joe Lucas Land Rover Lynch Party? > > Any suggestions for revenge (don't have to be legal, but must allow execution > > without being caught) are definitely welcome. Roger the solution is simple. All you need to do is contact my down the street neighbor who likes to pour dirt down engine crankcases and convience him that your neighbors have something he wants. TeriAnn ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 08:42:46 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers In message <199507220336.UAA06023@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> writes: > On the subject of cooling... > (Here's the cooling part) Mounted on the rear passenger door window was a > *very* interesting device. It was some sort of air-conditioner (or sorts). > It was basically a tube about 8" or so in diameter and maybe 1.5' long, with > a > part that went through the window. So looking head on from the front, it > looked like this: > > ____________ > / > ____|_, > / ,--, > ( )| > \__/ | > > ^ ^ > / \ > Device Window rolled up on it to hold it in place. > Roger, this sure looks like the old car window mounted ecvaporative cooler to me. You load some water inside, car moves evaporating water, cooler air flows in. Its one of those neat adaptions that died young when air conditioners became standard equipment in most cars. Though I did see someone trying to sell an updated version at the fair a few years back. ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 08:53:28 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Hi-Lift/Jackall source? In message <199507220350.UAA06504@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> writes: > > > jack, I've decided I need a high-lift type jack. > > > > You sure about that? They are good for front bumpers and miliary rear > > frames but extreamly unstable on a rear civilian frame without > > Well, no... But the wee bottle jack just doesn't cut it. (Have to lift the > vehicle half way, put a jack stand under, then jack it the rest of the way > because It won't fit if you extend the lifting part, but it doesn't go high > enough otherwise.) What would you suggest instead? I have a big floor jack I use at home. They often come on sale. Its low enough to fit under the TR3 and lfts high enough to put jack stands unter the LR. I have modified the rear frame member of my 109 to provide a jack point that fits a Hi-Lift jack at the rear corners. I also have the base bolted to a wider plywood base for increased stability and flotation on soft ground. But before I did that, jacking up the rear with a Hi-Lift was a two person job. One person to operate the jack and another to push against the side the car was falling to. > > So I understand a little better why you like to leave your car's at > > Scotty's. Ever thought of moving out of San Francisco to a more > > civilized location? > > Is there any place else that's as civilized? Yes a place with way fewer people. Why I bet you even have to close the doors to your house when you go to bed at night, or even lock them when you are away. ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:08:38 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Re: save the D90! Dan, you said: >I was thinking that's because I've never seen an ad for a D90. I see ads for the D90 all the time. you need to look in the right pubs I guess. I have three of them on my wall here at the office. Advertising can create awareness, but it doesn't sell something that is a considered purchase, like a defender. I think it would be great to save the defender, but I don't know how to do it. jimmy -- Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: The Latest From Land Rover Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:29:35 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith In message <199507221802.LAA17413@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > That's O.K, Bob, not my stuff and it's been plastered in all the mags. What > I want to know: Did LR pirate 31 of the precious number of existing 101 > chassis or build 31 new ones? I hope the latter. I dunno, but 2624 101FCs were built. Ben ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: The Latest From Land Rover Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:27:23 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith In message <199507220523.WAA08653@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > In the Sacramento Bee Fri. 7-21-95, is a picture of a vehicle that was built > by Land Rover for the movie "Judge Dredd" They built 31 super tough vehicles > on Land Rover platforms with 3.5 V8 and 4WD.On the front is the logo CRB . > The thing that got my attention was that they look like a Unimog that rolled > over 3 or 4 times. Supposed to be futuristic. > Maybe this is the one for Granville. > I'll save the picture in case someone wants to see it at p'lost They were based on 101FCs. Ben ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: save the D90! Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:36:30 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Kelly wrote: > Ben wrote: > > redesign the D90 for 1996, then for 1997, then for 1998. Personally, > > the Disco crumple zone works. I don't like it. I don't want a weakend > > front end. > I thought it was only the part of the frame between the bumper and the front > cross member? No?? Something like that. > Hey Ben, are you going to Paradise? How far is it? Should I take the RR or > the Series? (body damage etc.). I would feel bad if people saw me out there > in the RR in low range! From looking at the map it looked like (in very rough terms), drive to Chico and turn east. It will probably be the same distance as the Mendicino run for us. Yes I am going (planning on leaving Friday morning). A friend that I haven't seen for over a year is in SF for a conference and I may divert to see her for Friday night and pull into Paradise really late Friday. Those plans aren't firm (once I get email from her, I'll know more). As for body damage, I think Bob and/or Sue are a better judge for that. I assume body damage so that I won't be pissed when it happens (I have a nice dent on the tranny crossmember from Owl's Head--that's what I get for going first) Ben ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 17:54:09 -0700 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: rover maintanence Hi all, after reading the sunday paper and checking email this am, I spent a good number of hours puttering around the rover. Checked out the front end ala teriann's directions then changed the 90wt in one of the balls. Now that I think about it, I should have done the other, but I didn't. I was still looking for the leak. After that, I did the unthinkable and more. I washed the front end of the beast! wings, grill, bonnet, spare tire cover, windshield. Then I did an even more unspeakable thing, I put some wax on it! That taught me a lesson. Brush painted wings hold long streaks of wax and are generally alot of bother. Oh well, live and learn. The front of the beast looks like when I bought it, and the wax got rid of some scratches put in four wheeling up at eric's. I figure that with the RR's and defenders going to paradise, I had to make the DM look presentable. Question for engineer/fixit types. The dormobile has a closet that is held in by bolts. When I took the closet out of the vehicle, one of the bolts broke off. The complicated part is that the bolt is welded to a steel plate about 1x3 inches. this plate is then riveted to the floor. The bolt is counter sunk so the head is flush with the plate: when turned upside down, the threads of the bolt stuck up and the head is flat with the plate. Like I said, the bolt is broken off with about 1/2" left and welded into the plate. Davis lumber has bolts with sloping crown heads but too big to lie flush with the plate, assuming I could bevel a hole in the plate. ANy ideas for fixing a bolt to the floor sticking up in some sort of replica of the original situation? Thanks john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:14:56 -0400 From: Andy Reischer Subject: We are killing series parts not LRNA or BMW Hi.... I don'y think it's true that series parts are going away YET, but if they do then we are to blame. For LR to make parts for our vintage(my wreck) land rovers there better be money in it. If you buy genuine parts you are paying LR to keep making them. If you buy aftermarket parts which may be just as good or even better, You are taking the profitability out of the parts market for LR. So just remember that saving a little on parts today may destroy parts availability in the future esp items like axle housings,transmission casings, sterring boxs...... P.S. could you tell that I buy my parts at RN? Andy Reischer landrovers for 14 years and counting 100 inch coiler 100 inch coiler in progress. ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:35:54 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Re: Word out on the Rover Street >John Hess wrote: > >> Any word on the LROA/ Vance chin list? Will holly turn that into a web >> page? Hint, hint! > >I saw a nasty letter in the Aluminum Workhorse about Vance and this >list. > > >Scuttlebut head back east last month: >OVLR and ROAV have been contacted to combine their accumlated data with >this list, but that the list is only to be distributed to members of LROA, >>OVLR and ROAV. Maybe Brad or someone can shed some more light on this. > This seems like a bunch of petty bullshit, but I believe it! just because I am too lazy to get off my ass and track down that membership form, fill it out, write a check, find a stamp, and send it off---- that means I can't look at the top secret parts list. What's the deal with that. Who made up that rule and when did they become the master of the knowledge. It just seems silly when we all get together here each day to share information and have a good time. Jimmy asbestos underwear on. cheers -- Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:54:15 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Re: Speaking of Paradise... >Anybody else coming up Friday night?? > >Sue and Bob i should be coming up late Friday night, or early saturday morning. Jim, when will you be leaving friday??? maybe we can convoy it up? jimmy -- Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Palo Alto Following is the information on the Palo Alto meet taken from the official flier. Typos and spelling by Lucas (as usual). JBR THE BRITISH CAR MEET Palo Alto -- Sunday September 10, 1995 Once again, you are invited to attend the foremost British motorcar event in California. Join in the fun at the Eighteenth Annual British Car Meet at El Camino Park in Palo Alto. The owners of over 600 pieces of British automotive history will gather with friends, and celebrate wind in the air and oil in the driveway in an afternoon of noggin', natter, jazz and good cheer in a beautiful park setting. Your car may be in any condition or a work-in-progress, so don't be shy! Bring a picknic lunch or dine on British and American food. People's Choice Awards to be presented in a number of classes. Cars will be placed on the field, by marque, from 9:30AM. REGISTRATION: There will be a $15 per car registration fee at the gate and a $25 fee for cars FOR SALE. There is no pre-registration. DIRECTIONS: The Park is located on the east side of El Camino Real opposite the Stanford Shopping Center. From 101, take the University Avvenue exit west. After Driving through charming downtown Palo Alto, turn right (north) onto El Camino, then turn right, and into the park. INFORMATION: Call 310-392-6605 or Fax 310-396-1933 Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:03:16 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: High Speed Aerodynamics or EFI?? (D90/RR) - trivial questions You wrote: > >Never seen the problem in the RR. The series would have to be towed to >get to that speed! >Is your fuel filter clean!? >Kelly Minnick > Yup. Brad says he thinks there's an electronic cutoff in the EFI at that speed. Other input seems to be the pump can't handle the load. Hmmm. a 90 mph tow - could be interesting! Cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:12:21 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: 2 steps forwward, 1 step back The latest adventure of my saga of getting my 109 back on the road left me making progress and sabbatoging my self with a combination of being in a hurry and stupidity.. I laied up the Green Rover after a trip that included some off roading because of a dragging brake shoe and slowly leaking brake fluid. an examination showed the front left wheel cylinder to be weeping brake fluid, both front brakes to be swiming in grease/oil leaking from the inner hub seals, and the front wheels had a lot of play when wiggled. The tie rod ends, having been replaced a few years ago were in very good shape. Well it was time to bite the bullet and do the swivel ball rebuild (actually Scotty rebuild the swivel balls I just R&Red them) and the front brakes. Pulling parts off I noticed that the front left wheel bearings had seen better days and the front left axle 'U' joint had a place where it did not want to turn from. I suspect that this was damage from the time I broke the front left stub axle and drove on it a few days before I realized what was wrong. There was also grinding in the lower swivel ball housing where the axle joints hit it when carrying the weight of the car. The front rubber brake hoses looked cracked and tired and I could see what looked like deep rust pitting on the front left brake line. So with a bout of the reoccuring ship fitters disease I: - had the swivel pins rebuilt - put on new front wheel bearings - new inner front axle bearing and race on the front left - new front axle 'U' joint on the front left - piped new brake lines throughout the car - installed a new brake pressure distributer (blocks off one side of a dual system when that side fails) - new wheel cylinders all the way around - new brake shoes all the way around - replaced lower bushings on front shocks - repainted air cleaner and both breathers - changed oil & filter - retorqued head - adjusted valves - installed splash screen in engine compartment (Thanks Bob&Sue) - replaced wiper arms & blades (one was missing & one was badly rusted) Saturday, I finished plumbing the 109's dual brake system with all new steel lines and all new rubber hoses. The old rear hose was badly swollen and had burst the outer layer. I poured fluid in the resavour and quickly discovered two joints I have forgotten to tighten down. I quickly tightened those, put an E-Z Bleed on the master cylinder and started to bleed the system. No fluid would come out of the front left. I opened the line at the top of the rubber hose and there was fluid. I removed the drum and pulled the plunger from the top wheel cylinder (109's have two at the front). Dry. I removed the front left rubber brake hose and tried to blow through it...stopped up. Well so much for genuine Land Rover rubber brake hoses. Evidently the crimp stopped up the end. I opened it up with a long awal and widened it with the correct size knitting needle, reassembled the host into the brake circuit and the system worked fine. I reattached the battery lead that I had disconnected when stringing steel lines inside the engine compartment, tried to start the engine to have it seaze on me. Welllll It seems that When I looked up the torque settings I didn't pay attention to the page headding. I torqued a 2-1/4 petrol head down to disel specs. 90 ft pounds instead of 60. OOOOPPPPPs The result is a sized engine. Yesterday I untorqued the head and then engine spun fine. I removed the head. Surfaces on the head & block are straight. One side of the head gasket has ridges at the edge of the openings. So everything is cleaned up awaiting delivery of a new head gasket. And of course with ship fitters disease in my blood, it seems to be a good time to rejet the Rochester and to get the linkage arm spot welded to the shaft so it will stop wobbling around and changing my idle 500 RPM or more it idle. Will I make the paradise lost run? Depends upon when I get the head on and if everything works OK. Assuming I dont decide that as long as I have the head off I may as well repaint the car. I would give my self a 45 to 50% chance of making the run at this time. Though I worry about a run being the first trip after a major running gear rebuild. TeriAnn paying for being in too much of a hurry to read the heading of the manual page ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:25:47 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: UK parts order I just got off the phone with British Pacific ordering a head gasket*. While on the phone, I mentioned our pending UK parts order. They want a chance to quote the parts. Evidently one of the current goals of British Pacific is to be able to supply parts for less money than we can mail order them from the UK for. So Jeremy, when you get a quote from the UK could you FAX it to British Pacific and let them have a crack at providing us parts for less? Seems to me that if they want to under cut the UK competition we should ablige them by giving them less of our money than we would give the UK companys, shippers and customs. * Head gasket needed to recover from torquing head to disel specs. Seemed the engine froze. Upon disassembly engine spins fine, head & block are straight. Hopefully a new gasket properly torqued is all I need Currently estimating 45-50% chance to have head retorqued working fine, brake system, steering and everything else rebuilt/replaced to be trouble free and making it to paradise lost. You know I used to have a working trouble free Land Rover TeriAnn Hopefuly running out of parts needing immediate attention ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: UK parts order Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:44:27 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith In message <199507241927.MAA11613@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > While on the phone, I mentioned our pending UK parts order. They want a chan > to quote the parts. Gee, I just spent 4 hours in their office last Saturday talking in part about that. I spend the morning catching up on email and someone else grabs my wind... :-) > Evidently one of the current goals of British Pacific is to be able to supply > parts for less money than we can mail order them from the UK for. They have said to me that their curreny prices will almost always beat Merseyside (once you include customs and shipping). Also, from a personal visual inspection of the recent ABP and RN catalogs, BP had a stock price less than both almost every time. I also watched Steve comparing his prices to ABP's "specials" and he was either already under ABP's price, or changed his prices to be under. BP also mentioned that since LR has changed their prices 3 times since Oct, it is hard to have an accurate catalog. They plan on having a stock catalog and publishing a price list every quarter. Also they are getting an email account within a week (according to Steve) and would like to join our list. > So Jeremy, when you get a quote from the UK could you FAX it to British Pacif > and let them have a crack at providing us parts for less? Seems to me that i > they want to under cut the UK competition we should ablige them by giving the > less of our money than we would give the UK companys, shippers and customs. A fairer test would be to for someone to walk in with the list and watch Steve look the items up on the computer. And see how standard prices compare. Ben ------------------------------------ From: "John R. Benham" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:59:16 +1100 Subject: Merseyside quote is here! Dear LRO's, Today I received by FAX a price quote from Merseyside Land Rover in Liverpool. It covers all of the parts necessary for a head conversion and overhaul to unleaded gas and all the necessary parts, seals, gaskets, and bearings for a short block overhaul. Parts list: SS exhaust valves; inlet valve guides; exhaust valve guides; exhaust valve seat inserts; inlet valve stem seals; exhaust valve seals; valve springs; rocker bushings; piston rings; engine bearings - big end; engine bearings - small end; head gasket set; bottom gasket set; rear oil seal: All parts: L 157.94 Shipping: 49.90 Total: L 207.84 Exchange: 1.58 x 207.84 = $ 328.87 US Is this a fair price? All of the part boxes have `Fabrique en Botswana' written on them... Later, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) Spokane: "There's no there, there..." 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:25:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Re: Speaking of Paradise... Jimmy: I will probably start the vehicle up at roughtly 5:30 to 6:00 in SFO and fight my way across the bridge. Maybe the REI Berkeley parking lot (easier to find than TeriAnn thinks) sevinish or so???? Could be later but I doubt it could be much earlier for me. Anyone else?????? Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:38:48 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: UK parts order You wrote: >While on the phone, I mentioned our pending UK parts order. They want a chance >to quote the parts. > >Evidently one of the current goals of British Pacific is to be able to supply >parts for less money than we can mail order them from the UK for. > >So Jeremy, when you get a quote from the UK could you FAX it to British Pacific >and let them have a crack at providing us parts for less? Seems to me that if >they want to under cut the UK competition we should ablige them by giving them >less of our money than we would give the UK companys, shippers and customs. > > snip > >TeriAnn Sure. I can do this. I'm expecting Dingocroft's reply in a few days (I received and acknowledgement FAX indicating that they'd be a few days due to the large list and that they're very busy). One catch is I doubt BP will have all the items we're wanting. I've also found BP's stock to be a bit limited. However, if they seriously want to compete I think this deserves a real look. Cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:03:03 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Re: Speaking of Paradise... >Jimmy: > >I will probably start the vehicle up at roughtly 5:30 to 6:00 in SFO and >fight my way across the bridge. Maybe the REI Berkeley parking lot >(easier to find than TeriAnn thinks) sevinish or so???? Could be later >but I doubt it could be much earlier for me. > >Anyone else?????? > > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > (Seattle -- San Francisco) Seven-ish (ish) at REI sounds good to me. I will have to really push it but I think I can do that. Maybe my pal in the old volvo will be there. This time I ram him. Full speed ahead Mabel! Now to get home and pack. HA! jimmy -- Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:03:17 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: Speaking of Paradise... You wrote: > >Jimmy: > >I will probably start the vehicle up at roughtly 5:30 to 6:00 in SFO and >fight my way across the bridge. Maybe the REI Berkeley parking lot >(easier to find than TeriAnn thinks) sevinish or so???? Could be later >but I doubt it could be much earlier for me. > >Anyone else?????? > > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > (Seattle -- San Francisco) Susan and I are probably going to head up very early Saturday morning, so I'll official pass on this option on this one. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:00:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Paradise Skip Hi Sue, After I sent the note this morning Peg and I put our heads together and decided that getting to the Paradise Lost weekend was just more than we could accomplish. She is leaving for a month in China Aug 3rd, the day after we return from Ft Bragg. Just too much. I trust you will all have a great time. I'm sorry we won't be there. Walt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW ------------------------------------ From: "John R. Benham" mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:17:04 +1100 Subject: Re: Will BP `Walk the Walk'? Jeremy writes: > One catch is I doubt BP will have all the items we're wanting. I've also found > BP's stock to be a bit limited. However, if they seriously want to compete I think > this deserves a real look. > > Cheers, > > Jeremy > Jeremy, I just FAX'ed BP my Merseyside quote in order for Steve to compete. As soon as his quote comes in, I'll share it with the group. The proof is in the `pudding' so to speak! - they `talk the talk', but will they `walk the walk'! Later, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) Spokane: "There's no there, there..." 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:25:48 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: UK parts order this message might be a "repeat" courtesy of "netblock" You wrote: > >In message <199507241927.MAA11613@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > > >> While on the phone, I mentioned our pending UK parts order. They want a chan >> to quote the parts. > snip > > Also they are getting an email account within a week (according to >Steve) and would like to join our list. This sounds good. > >> So Jeremy, when you get a quote from the UK could you FAX it to British Pacif >> and let them have a crack at providing us parts for less? Seems to me that i >> they want to under cut the UK competition we should ablige them by giving the >> less of our money than we would give the UK companys, shippers and customs. > > A fairer test would be to for someone to walk in with the list >and watch Steve look the items up on the computer. And see how standard >prices compare. > >Ben > So what's "standard"? I'm not sure what you mean by "fairer". Seems perfectly fair to fax BP Dingocroft's quotes if this is what they're offering to beat. There's a couple of price points to remember: 1. Sales tax (unless you collectively want to contribute to the Willy Brown/Pete Wilson pension fund). 2. Total availability. If there's only limited availibility from BP I'd think we'd need to pay attention to the possibility of increasing the relative shipping costs for UK parts if part of the order went to BP. I suspect the better bulk price will end up being the UK/Dingocroft order (we'll see). By the way, I agree that BP on a part by part basis usually beats RN. However, I've done an analysis on extensive restoration alternatives and when you get up to around the $3K mark RN and BP generally tie due to RN's restoration discount program and California sales tax. I've found in my latest dealings (the last 2 months) that RN is consistently quicker and has better stock; however BP does have some good deals (I recently purchase and overdrive at costs that about match UK prices). Basically, though I view BP and RN as approximate equals for my purposes. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 14:27:02 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: UK parts order In message <199507241942.MAA12252@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> writes: > > A fairer test would be to for someone to walk in with the list > and watch Steve look the items up on the computer. And see how standard > prices compare. > > Ben They specificaly asked us to get our quotes, including shipping & FAX it to them to see what they can offer. Could be they might be willing to cut us a deal to wean us off UK orders? Could be their prices are already lower. TeriAnn ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: UK parts order Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:38:33 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith In message <199507242128.OAA15410@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > In message <199507241942.MAA12252@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> writes: > > A fairer test would be to for someone to walk in with the list > > and watch Steve look the items up on the computer. And see how standard > > prices compare. > > They specificaly asked us to get our quotes, including shipping & FAX it to t > them to see what they can offer. Could be they might be willing to cut us a > deal to wean us off UK orders? Could be their prices are already lower. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve cuts a deal. There is no way to see if their prices are standardly lower (as they claim) if we tell them what the UK's quote is first. Ben ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: UK parts order Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:57:13 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith I wrote: > > A fairer test would be to for someone to walk in with the list > >and watch Steve look the items up on the computer. And see how standard > >prices compare. Jeremy wrote: > So what's "standard"? The price that is in their computer at the time of the request. BP does not have a standard markup. Steve vairies the price based on competitor's prices and other factors. He may cut a deal with you if it means that he gets the sale and a UK company doesn't. > I'm not sure what you mean by "fairer". Seems perfectly fair to fax BP > Dingocroft's quotes if this is what they're offering to beat. Yes it is a fair thing to do if you want to get the best price for yourself at a given time. But if we want to test to see if BP's prices are less than competitor X in general, then we don't tell either X or BP that we are comparing and see what prices they quote off the bat. > There's a couple of price points to remember: > 1. Sales tax (unless you collectively want to contribute to the Willy Brown/ > Pete Wilson pension fund). Yes the complete test is if (UK parts+shipping+Customs+ phone/FAx charges) < (BP + Calif sales tax + Calif shipping) > By the way, I agree that BP on a part by part basis usually beats RN. > However, I've done an analysis on extensive restoration alternatives and > when you get up to around the $3K > mark RN and BP generally tie due to RN's restoration discount program and > California sales tax. I've found in my latest dealings (the last 2 months) > that RN is consistently quicker and has better stock; With RN's restoration program you may be correct, I haven't priced that. Does RN have a bigger stock? From looking at their barn a few years ago, I'd say yes. From looking at BP's stock increase lately, this may not necessarily be true. I know that BP has been investing every penny that it could into more stock. As for quicker response, BP know that this is a problem and just added a part time person to pack orders. (Why do I sound like a BP PR person. I don't mean to. I only ment to give an inside scoop on BP to the mendo folks and now I'm clarlifying statement after statement) Ben ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 14:51:17 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: UK parts order In message <199507242055.NAA14296@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Jeremy Bartlett writes: > > Sure. I can do this. I'm expecting Dingocroft's reply in a few days (I > received > and acknowledgement FAX indicating that they'd be a few days due to the large > list Good golly are a couple of people rebuilding their cars? Or do we all want different parts? > BP's stock to be a bit limited. They say they are growing their stock and have just started a regular container shipment schedule. They were recently in the UK and have forged relationships with several of the OEM and major aftermarket suppliers. They think they can new get stuff for the same prices or cheaper than the British parts retailers, customs would be the same, but they would win in costs because they are shipping larger quantities. Unlike Rover's North, it looks like they are trying to build a high volume, low margin business. They are moving more into the OEM business, esp since it looks like Rover will be the sole US distributer for genuine parts in the US before the year is out & in the UK in about 2-1/2 years. This means that they will be able to stock parts for the newer Land Rovers/Discoverys/Range Rovers that Rover wouldn't let them carry. It should be a boon for the late Rover crowd. Rover also made sure they carried ano more than a certain percentage of OEM parts. When the contract is ended that will be able to stock a larger selection of OEM. As an example, they expect prices of Genuine LR water pumps to hit $300ish. They will be able to sell good quality pumps for around $40ish. They would keep one genuine LR boxed pump on the shelf for someone who insists on it but expect to sell many more aftermarket pumps. The next container shipment is supposed to contain limited slip diffs for the series Land Rovers. He doesn't have a price yet but expects to be in the under $400 range. They had every part I needed on my last two orders. Well one exception. They don't carry hydrolic brake fittings by themselves. Rovers North does. TeriAnn If a given torque is good, more must be better and too much is just right! ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Re: Speaking of Paradise... Jimmy: Okay, we can make it a hoped for 7:30 departure (so neither of us will have to push too hard). Hows that sound? I'll try to be sure the Volvo is there and waiting for you! Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) ------------------------------------ From: "John R. Benham" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:27:52 +1100 Subject: Re: A/C for Series Land Rovers Jim writes: > I remember an evaporative air cooler my dad had -- probably in the early > to mid fifties. It sat on the transmission hump and had it's own fan > that plugged into the lighter. You filled it with water and, as I > remember, it actually worked reasonably well. I'd rather like to find > one of those. > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > (Seattle -- San Francisco) > Jim, Growing up in Albuquerque, our family had the window version evaporative A/C for our 1958 Ford! When we stopped at service stations (remember those?), I filled up the cooler with a couple of gallons of water from the stations COLD water drinking fountain! The station's attendent would give me a dirty look, but I'll tell you, the next 30 miles across the Imperial desert in August was in comfort! ... my first lesson in thermodynamics! Later, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) Spokane: "There's no there, there..." 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:06:09 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: Granville, Work or play? Sue, answering Dale: >The Paradise Lost get together is next weekend, not this weekend, Dale. >Hopefully, Granny, will have enough time this week to get everything >together. Sue, Well, all this weekend did was give me (barely) time to take my LR back for its smog retest which it failed, just as miserably as before. I left it at the shop to see what they could do to make it work. That's my only chance of being able to bring it. Won't get it back until Tuesday or Wednesday P.M. which gives me very little time to do anything to it myself. I really must install the free-wheeling hubs so my shaky front driveshaft and sloppy front diff won't have to turn on the highway all the way to Paradise. Also want to change to my big wheels and tires. I guess that's about all I can manage. Still hope to leave Thursday night or Friday Morning. I'll let you know when I have a better handle on my departure. Chances are, though, I'll not know until about the last minute. Cheers, Granville ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:24:34 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: UK parts order You wrote: > >> I'm not sure what you mean by "fairer". Seems perfectly fair to fax BP >> Dingocroft's quotes if this is what they're offering to beat. > > Yes it is a fair thing to do if you want to get the best price for >yourself at a given time. But if we want to test to see if BP's prices >are less than competitor X in general, then we don't tell either X or BP >that we are comparing and see what prices they quote off the bat. > Ah I see you meant testing the prices. Yeah I agree. Based on my quotes from BP without them knowing I was shopping around they would have to cut a deal to beat expected (advertised) UK prices. I only ment to give an inside scoop on BP to >the mendo folks and now I'm clarlifying statement after statement) > > >Ben > All this talk of poop and scoop and clarifiers is starting to sound like the public sewage works :) ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:45:00 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Re: Speaking of Paradise... >Jimmy: > >Okay, we can make it a hoped for 7:30 departure (so neither of us will >have to push too hard). Hows that sound? I'll try to be sure the Volvo >is there and waiting for you! > > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > (Seattle -- San Francisco) Ritghty-o then. 7:30. I'll try to get a nice thermos set up for us to have some coffee. 8-}} >No problem. I will try to remember and bring the book in to work >tomorrow and grab the copies. Cool, Thanks! see you. -- Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:26:32 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: Granville, Work or play? You wrote: > > >Still hope to leave Thursday night or Friday Morning. I'll let you know >when I have a better handle on my departure. Chances are, though, I'll not >know until about the last minute. > >Cheers, > > >Granville > Best of luck with the LR. If you make it remember the cleaner to carb hose and the PCV capable elbow! Hope to see you there. Cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:20:43 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: UK parts order Cc: twakeman@apple.com You wrote: > >In message <199507242055.NAA14296@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Jeremy Bartlett >writes: > >> >> Sure. I can do this. I'm expecting Dingocroft's reply in a few days (I >> received >> and acknowledgement FAX indicating that they'd be a few days due to the large >> list > >Good golly are a couple of people rebuilding their cars? Or do we all want >different parts? > There was some duplication but basically a six page fax went out. Define rebuilding :) Cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:10:12 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: Merseyside quote is here! You wrote: > Is this a fair price? All of the part boxes have `Fabrique en >Botswana' written on them... > Now I'da sworn Botswana was part of the old UK empire - N. Rhodesia or such, not part of that little Belgian corner of the world know currently as the Congo :) Cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:23:44 -0700 From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: GPS info (Bruce) Bruce, I saw you had some coords for the GPS users. Like this >E626071 N4417929 What format are those in? I have the choice of: hddd-mm.mmm' degrees and minutes hddd-mm'ss.s degrees minutes and seconds hddd-ddddd degrees only (decimal?) also have UTM, British, Irish and Swiss Grid formats, but I don't have a clue. Can someone tell me where I am? What are the sectional maps I will need for base camp and tha trails of the surrounding area? cheerio, jimmy -- Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com ------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 21:01:36 -0700 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: paradise a few notes concerning paradise: my wife is not sure she has the whole day off, so I don't know what time I'm leaving. David Reha- do you know what your plans are? I have discussed the idea of driving up with eric and ann Mills who own the dm in concord. That still might happen. If my wife leaves work at noon, then the mills and hesses could also convoy with morgan. Roger *(and anyone else of course) I have 10 copies of the portland all british meet flyer. I will also bring the stuff I got by mail from the hi lift jack people. I have called the starbirds since they didn't call me. Their answering machine says they're out working in the yard. So, when I hear more from them about friday night activities in portland, i'll be sure to pass it along. I myself have been giving serious thought about entering the photo contests--- 5 classes: black and white, portrait, club/group, humorous, and action. under action I could submit me changing a tire in new jersey or maybe alex covered with mud, pulling a winch cable to vance (or is that humorous?). Of course the standard action shot would be a rover in the mud bath, but like I said, that's the standard shot. Be sure to plan your entries! cheers and happy tuesday, (ooh, do I really GET to do more sequencing today?) internet science type sarcasm.^^^^^^^^ john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! ------------------------------------ End of Digest