From: mendo_recce@off-road.com Subject: Digest for mendo_recce: 2/6/1997 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@off-road.com Reply-To: mendo_recce@off-road.com Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------ From: Michael McKeag Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:00:10 -0800 Subject: spawning salmon and Rovers Here's a crossover opportunity for those of you Lazy Buggers into both fish and Rovers, and who live, play or loaf in the Great Northwest. Steve Hinton of Oregon Trout is looking for 4x4 owners interested in helping with a salmon spawning survey. Steve's project description and contact information follows (BTW, ODFW = Oregon Dept. of Fish & Wildlife): > 1997 SALMONBERRY SPAWNING SURVEYS > > 1997 will mark the fifth year that volunteers have surveyed spawning winter > steelhead in the Salmonberry River and its tributaries. This is an ODFW STEP > project to collect data that the fisheries managers would not otherwise be > able to collect. The information gathered helps ODFW better understand run > timing, run size and distribution for better resource management. > > Volunteers come from a variety of groups, and all are welcome. In the past > participants have included members of Oregon Trout, the Northwest > Steelheaders, the Clark-Skamania Fly Fishers, Rainland Fly Fishers and > students from PSU and PCC. > > Although there has been good volunteer participation in the past, additional > volunteers are always needed. Since the February 1996 flood volunteers with > 4-wheel drive vehicles are especially crucial. > > Each Saturday from March through May surveys are done. To complete all the > areas we want to survey 12 to 15 people are needed each Saturday. Surveys > take nearly all day. We leave at 7:00 a.m., and generally don't return to > Portland until 6:00 or 7:00 p.m. > > Survey reaches vary in length. The shorter surveys are 3-5 miles along the > railroad tracks with no hiking difficulty. The longer surveys are 8-10 > miles. Tributary surveys involve wading in the river and require waders or > hip boots. Lunch, water, rain gear and polarized glasses are necessary for > the survey. Clothing should suit the current weather, and layering is advised. > > In addition to the surveys, volunteers are needed to place water temperature > monitors in the watershed. This done the end of May or first of June. In > September the water temperature monitors are retrieved. It is very helpful > if the same people who place the monitors will pick them up. September has > also been the time that volunteers have done macro invertebrate sampling. > Macro invertebrates are one of the best ways to monitor the health of a > watershed. This may be one of the most important facets of the Salmonberry > Project. > > During November, spawning surveys for fall Chinook are conducted. Like the > steelhead surveys, these are done on Saturdays. The same type of gear and > the same time frame apply. If you would like to help collect data, get some > fresh air, exercise and see some beautiful wild fish call and sign up for a > survey or other project. More information and sign up is available by > calling Joyce or Marty Sherman at 244-4109 or Steve Hinton @ 222-9091 > > Steve Hinton > > Oregon Trout > Riverkeeper Network Coordinator > 117 SW Front Ave > Portland, OR 97204 > > 503-222-9091 > Fax 222-9187 > > steve.hinton@ortrout.org http://www.ortrout.org > -- Michael McKeag Webmaster - Native Plant Society of Oregon Portland, OR USA http://www.teleport.com/nonprofit/npso/ mmckeag@teleport.com LRO - 1995 D90SW #143, alpine white "His career was that he was himself and he got away with it." - Journalist describing humorist Brother Theodore ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:13:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CB40 There's another interesting factor: none of the Rover passenger car engines are certified for US emissions. How many would they have to sell to recover costs on the federalization of an existing engine? Can they actually manufacture that many? And since there is no commonality with other vehicles sold in the US, parts and service will be a factor. In England, Rover cars, especially the small ones that the 1.8 engine comes from, are considered junky, and sales of passenger cars are running Rover at a loss, and have been for awhile now. BMW would be smart to consider an engine from a different source, perhaps Japanese if they don't have an appropriate one to use. Don't immediately consider lighter, smaller 4WD's as inferior. The low 1st gear could compensate for the t-case, and other small light 4WD's do pretty well off road (like the Samurai). Technology and design do progress, and the CB40 has been in development for awhile. Just because it breaks with tradition dosen't mean (in itself) it's bad. I just wonder if we'll ever get to see it here. Steve ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:47:20 -0800 Subject: Re: CB40 BRITPAC@aol.com wrote: > snip > Don't immediately consider lighter, smaller 4WD's as inferior. True enough but I'd rather go with and 80". > The low 1st > gear could compensate for the t-case, and other small light 4WD's do pretty > well off road (like the Samurai). Technology and design do progress, and the > CB40 has been in development for awhile. Just because it breaks with > tradition dosen't mean (in itself) it's bad. Again true but the issue is not a "new technology" but the market being chased and the design parameters for which that technology is applied. One question I have is if the body gets dinged up offroad does that compromise the integrity of the vehicle. It seems like this is a much higher risk with a monocoque design - you could total the vehicle offroading much more readily that with a box chassis design. Or am I out to lunch? I've not heard whether the aluminium skin has been abandoned. I assume that with the monocoque design standard steel is required. BTW here's some more advantages of the design: It doesn't have beam axles so you can't get cross axled right? :) The IFS won't blow half shafts... although... :) The monocoque body distorts in serious terrain automatically jamming the doors thus alleviating concerns about 5pt harness, safety nets and roll bars :) cheers Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: anieto@mofo.com (Nieto, Armando S., Jr.) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 10:26:22 -0800 Subject: Sighting --MimeMultipartBoundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I was driving up 101 this morning to SF and at about 8:30 am saw a Marine Blue (?) Disco with an ARB bumper with 3 Hella 3000's mounted as well as 4 Hella 500's on the roof rack. I have seen this vehicle at British Motors when I was there for service. Is that someone on the list? Want to ask how and who did your roof light wiring. Armando S. Nieto Jr. 96 Disco "Higgins" --MimeMultipartBoundary-- ------------------------------------ From: James Howard Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:08:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: CB40 All this talk about the CB40 has gotten me thinking. What features to I consider important to a Land Rover? Roll-over angle > 40 degrees High RTI Field repairability Able to be driven @75 mph without scaring you to death (yes, many Series trucks can't go that fast, but if they could, they would be better handling than a Jeep is, based on my down hill experiments.) lots of torque at 500 rpm. able to go down steep grades under control. Able to carry two people and enough camping gear to live outside for a week. If the CB 40 has all that, then I will be happy. I don't know if I would buy one, but then, I don't buy new cars. I'd rather have an 89 Range Rover than a 97 (insert name of any under $30K truck here). James ------------------------------------ From: Mehdi.Saghafi.B@bayer.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:59:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Sighting 7 Hella ! I wonder what this car is used for at nights! mehdi I was driving up 101 this morning to SF and at about 8:30 am saw a Marine Blue (?) Disco with an ARB bumper with 3 Hella 3000's mounted as well as 4 Hella 500's on the roof rack. I have seen this vehicle at British Motors when I was there for service. Is that someone on the list? Want to ask how and who did your roof light wiring. Armando S. Nieto Jr. 96 Disco "Higgins" --MimeMultipartBoundary-- ------------------------------------ From: Southern California Land Rover Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 11:10:01 -0800 Subject: SCLR Meeting Announcement Southern California Land Rover will have it's *first* official club meeting this Friday. This initial meeting is open to all interested Land Rover owners in the Southern California area. The meeting is this Friday, the 7th of Feb at 7:00pm at: Durty Nellie's Restaurant 2915 Redhill Avenue Costa Mesa, CA (714) 957-1951 To get there, take the 405S to the 73S, and exit at Bristol. When you get to the light at Irvine Avenue, turn left, then left again, so that you are heading North on Bristol. The next light that you hit will be Redhill Avenue. Turn RIGHT, and then take your 2nd LEFT into the South Coast Design Center. Durty Nellie's will be in front. They serve decent food, and have English beer on tap. =============================================================== David Allen 1994 D-90 (Arles Blue) Southern California Land Rover http://www.pubsvc.dsr.com/LandRover ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:41:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: System delays/Sale flyer To anyone trying to reach us via E-mail, we apologize for the delays. We haven't been able to log on AOL during our usual business hours (I'm reading mail @ 7:45 AM as a result). We'll answer all inquiries as fast as we can. Remember, if you need to get us right away, call 1 800 554-4133 or fax us at 818 841-3825. We will be adding additional phone lines and new equipment over the next 2 months. Thanks for your patience. If youy aren't on our mailing list, and you want a copy of our current Winter Parts Sale Flyer, please call. There are only 4 weeks left on the 10% club discount, and Lay Away program. Steve/BRITPAC ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:56:24 -0800 Subject: Re: CB40 Jeremy said: >One question I have is if the body gets dinged up offroad does that compromise >the integrity of the vehicle. It seems like this is a much higher risk with a >monocoque design - you could total the vehicle offroading much more readily >that with a box chassis design. Or am I out to lunch? Yes, a monocoque design will be more easily totalled as it would not be hard to do very expensive structural damage in a mild roll-over or by smashing into a tree with one corner when sliding off a downhill trail in the mud (e.g. Sherwood Road). But minor fender-benders (wing-wankers?) shouldn't be a problem as those parts of the outer skin of most modern unibody vehicles don't have those parts stressed, at least not the front fenders which bolt on. >I've not heard whether the aluminium skin has been abandoned. I assume that >with the monocoque design standard steel is required. I have read that it's all-steel construction. >The monocoque body distorts in serious terrain automatically jamming the doors >thus alleviating concerns about 5pt harness, safety nets and roll bars :) Not if it's designed properly so that it's really rigid which is one of several true advantages of the unibody design. Others include lower step-in height for the amount of ground clearance, and lighter weight for comparable strength and rigidity, much less tendancy to become loose and rattly in old age, and production cost (assuming high production volume). To my way of thinking, repairability is the main downside. To get the advantages of unibody (except for cost!), the Foers Ibex uses a space frame/roll cage construction with the body panels all bonded on. It is very rigid and strong. Unlike a production unibody, it's also extremely repairable, much more so than a Land Rover. But it also costs somewhat (but not vastly) more, due to its being hand-built. Cheers, Granny ------------------------------------ From: "G. Warren Smith" Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:19:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: System delays/Sale flyer Please send winter parts sale flyer. Thanks, GWS At 02:41 PM 2/6/97 -0500, BRITPAC@aol.com wrote: >To anyone trying to reach us via E-mail, we apologize for the delays. We >haven't been able to log on AOL during our usual business hours (I'm reading >mail @ 7:45 AM as a result). We'll answer all inquiries as fast as we can. > >Remember, if you need to get us right away, call 1 800 554-4133 or fax us at >818 841-3825. We will be adding additional phone lines and new equipment over >the next 2 months. Thanks for your patience. > >If youy aren't on our mailing list, and you want a copy of our current Winter >Parts Sale Flyer, please call. There are only 4 weeks left on the 10% club >discount, and Lay Away program. > >Steve/BRITPAC > > > Dr. G. Warren Smith, Honors Professor of Arts and Sciences Southeastern Louisiana University SLU 942 Hammond, LA 70402 gwsmith@selu.edu (504) 549-3695 (504) 549-3595 FAX ------------------------------------ From: dickins@exemplar.com (Scott Dickinson) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:11:02 -0800 Subject: Disco lease Tom Williams wrote: :> Just saw a Land Rover ad in Investor's Business Daily that had free = :> maintenance and service included for the first 45K miles when you = :> lease a '97 Discovery. Ah yesssss.... Mr. Penwarden take note! When I was looking at new Discos I figured out that the Disco lease was actually *cheaper* than buying it and financing it through Tec Fed Credit Union. The lease payments and what-not came to about 7%, Tec Fed is 8% to 9% depending on if what accounts and auto-payment plan you have. Insurence was slightly higher with the lease (they want more coverage) but overall it was a great lease plan, especially with the total maintenance thrown in. I was looking at a 3-1/2 year lease... Also if you get a lemon, they fix it. If you are tired of the Disco at the end of the lease, just turn it in! Good luck! Scott '91 RR GDE "Evan" (now with Bilsteins :) LotGWPH (San Diego bound) ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 12:29:10 -0800 Subject: PTO Function/Operation? First my apologies for those receiving multiple postings but I want as much input as possible on this "generic" subject. I am considering installing a rear PTO but I've never used one. Since none of the "literature" I possess describes rear PTO operation I've got a few questions I'm hoping some people can answer. (LR literature describes the particular PTO I'm looking at as designed to operate primarily from 4th gear, but capable of short term operation in other gears). Are rear PTOs constantly operating or are they engaged like an overdrive (presumably with a different lever)? I assume from the above limited description that this is the case. Does engaging the PTO disengage the rest of the drivetrain from the transfer box on? In other words, does use of a rear PTO effectively put the vehicle in neutral? Can the vehicle be driven while the PTO is operated? Finally I'm wondering if its possible to power the vehicle from an alternate power source through a PTO. I'm investigating this as a means of providing very low speed drive "on demand" I have come across the odd reference to a vehicle being driven by input from the rear PTO when the PTO is connected to an alternate power source, so this seems to be the case. (This implies that the PTO doesn't disengage the rest of the drive train but I can't reconcile that with the LR description of operating it in 4th (unless they mean neutral)). This is my primary concern and the basis for the above questions. Thanks for alleviating my ignorance. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: "Lee Zeltzer (ISD)" Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 13:49:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Disco lease If you are tired of the Disco at the end of the lease, just turn > it in! > > Good luck! > > Scott > '91 RR GDE "Evan" (now with Bilsteins :) > LotGWPH (San Diego bound) But what happens if you take it off road and "abuse it" a new definition of using it for what it was designed? ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 13:09:27 PST Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Jeremy The ones I have seen on the Mog's and LR's can be used while the vehicle is moving, but that is not a requirement. There is a neutral position in the transfer case that will allow PTO only. There is usually another lever for the PTO (like the overdrive, etc.). In theory, you could drive the pto backwards and put power into the transfer box, but the transmission would probably have to be in neutral. You could also run a third axle off the pto if you wanted to... Does this help? Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: James Howard Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:38:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Gas mesh filter The pickup tube that suck fuel out of my 88"'s gas tank used to have a brass, mesh filter bag over the end of it (at least that is what remains on there). The tube clogs up with junk periodically, so I made a replacement out of some 304 stainless mesh we have lying around. I am wondering, what is the best way to attach this mesh to the tube? Is there a petrol proof tape I can use, or will a nylon wire tie work, or what? Thanks, James ------------------------------------ From: James Howard Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:40:33 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: CB40 On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Granville Pool wrote: > >One question I have is if the body gets dinged up offroad does that compromise > >the integrity of the vehicle. It seems like this is a much higher risk with a > >monocoque design - you could total the vehicle offroading much more readily > >that with a box chassis design. Or am I out to lunch? > Jeep Cherokees are unibody. How do they do? James ------------------------------------ From: debrown@srp.gov Date: 06 Feb 97 14:05:11 MST Subject: Who let out the Lucas demon this time??? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 All right now! Who's the wise guy that released the "Lucas demon" this time? With all this talk of half shafts (axles) breaking, it was only a matter of time before... BANG! my 3rd half shaft to break in 6 months of driving the 109. I was on the freeway, and for some reason I was very frustrated because traffic had STOPPED for no apparent reason, causing me to pump my brakes, and plummeting all my papers and "junk" from on the seat to the floor. (This is highly unusual for me, as I RARELY get angry or frustrated over such trivialities that I have no control over, but there I was.) At least I wasn't holding a full cup of coffee at the time! When traffic began again, I let out the clutch a lot harder than I normally do, with a bit of engine rpm to boot, and... well, we all know the story. :-( This one is more my fault than the last two times which were at a light, and very gentle use of the clutch. Now fess up! Who's the joker that started this "I broke my half shaft" thread! You owe me a half shaft!!! Come on now, you don't want any of that negative Rover carma now... Dave (with only a "spare" short shaft in the IIa 88) Brown Habit is the best of servants, #=======# _____l___ or the worst of masters. |__|__|__\___ //__/__|__\___ - Nathaniel Emmens | _| | |_ |} \__ - ____ - _|} - "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) ------------------------------------ From: GElam30092@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:41:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rack information Here are the details from Garvin Industries along with prices for the var= ious models: (nothing for the Defender listed) RR (=9184-=9295) Rack size 5=92 by 5=92 by 4" part number 50504 $234.50 Mount kit 28003 $79.95 Floor kit 11508 $129.95 Discovery 4=922" by 4=92 by 4" part number 42404 $229.50 Mount kit 28018 $98.95 Floor kit 11406 $ not listed but would probably be aroun= d $90. Discovery 4=922" by 7=92 by 6" part number 46706 $274.50 Mount kit 28020 $189.50 Floor kit 11708 $149.95 Accessories include light brackets (4" and 6") both at $15.95 as well as various cargo nets ($79.95), ladders ($129.95-$149.95), spare tire bracke= t ($79.95), etc. Specs: =BE" heavy duty square steel tubing all mounting hardware, requires basic hand tools black powder coat hardware is grade 5, zinc coated bolt together design, UPS shippable Flooring: =BE" steel tubing also They will send you a 10% off coupon just for asking. The total for the l= arge Disco rack would be $613.95 less 10% is $552.55. If you plan to make you= r own flooring, I suspect you would get away with the clamp crosspieces onl= y since the spacing would be on the order of less than 26" apart. That w= ould depend on the load you plan to add. Out the door would be $417.60 with t= he discount. Now, since the LR/Safety Devices rack is 78" (6.5=92) long, , 53" (4.416= 66") wide, 5 inches deep, vehicle height 85.8". The best price I=92ve seen= is Europarts at $683.=20 Is the $200 difference worth it to chance on something none of us have se= en? The LR/SD rack is a somewhat known quality. The GI, while being new t= o most to us, is also perceived as a somewhat decent rack. Now... will either fit on the Discovery in the garage? Nope... I=92m li= mited to about 83.5 inches. =20 The usual disclaimers apply... I have no financial interest in either com= pany other than looking for a decent rack to purchase. Gerry Elam PHX AZ ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 13:22:16 PST Subject: Re: Diana's Clutch Revisited > > Several (three/four?) weeks ago I posted about a failed clutch > in an '83 RR (Diana). The clutch will not disengage and but > the transmission will shift and there is an oil leak from the > seal/pump from the gearbox to the bellhousing. The hydraulics > check out OK. > > I have one more question on this before I start pulling the box > (God only knows when I'll find the time). Could a failed pilot > bushing/bearing cause the clutch release failure? It was > difficult to disengage a couple of times (repeated trys necessary) > then failed totally). > > cheers, > > Jeremy > Yes. Happened to a friends Toyota FJ40 (Crusier). The bearing froze to the pilot shaft and you could not shift the thing. New bearing, too! Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:16:14 -0800 Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Thanks to one and all for the quick, and helpful information. Dixon Kenner wrote: snip > > Does engaging the PTO disengage the rest of the drivetrain from the > > transfer box on? > > No. Red lever in neutral does that. If I'd thought a bit more I'd have realized this, although for the vehicle in question it's actually a small black lever :) > > > Finally I'm wondering if its possible to power the vehicle from an alternate > > power source through a PTO. > > Tricky... Yes, but can all the components handle the strain... > I don't think the pto could handle the load. Yes, that of course is THE ultimate question. I've read of this being done by a fellow many years ago in a Series rig (possibly in Land Rover the Unbeatable 4x4?), so in principle it seems possible. As I see it there's a reasonable chance the PTO will take the strain. BUT I've not yet found any info. on the performance/stress limits which makes me uncomfortable - I don't like working without some idea of "engineering" limits on such systems. I'd be surprised, however, if such info. even exists. Ultimately, it'll probably come down to deciding whether to put $ on the line, "plug" it in, and see if the thing goes bang or not, praying that the transfer/gearbox doesn't go with it if it fails. cheers, Jeremy P.S. If I go ahead with this "wild" idea, the alternate power source would probably be hydraulic, possibly linked into the power steering fluid supply or at any rate the running existing engine, with the PTO driven at very low gearing ("crawl on demand" as it were). ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:15:23 -0800 Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Kelly said: >In theory, you could drive the pto backwards and put power into the transfer >box, but the transmission would probably have to be in neutral. Eh? How would you run a PTO with the gearbox in neutral? The PTO only can get power when the tranny's in gear. >You could also run a third axle off the pto if you wanted to... Or a driven-axle trailer. In either case, you have to have a second transfer case for the additional driven axle. You'd think that you'd be able to get by with no additional transfer case by driving the third axle only in high range but this would be true only if your normal transfer case has 1.00:1 in high range which I don't think any Land-Rovers do. Cheers, Granny ------------------------------------ From: Bob Watson Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:19:23 -0800 Subject: RE: Gas mesh filter What about a small hose clamp? Then you can replace it again later. -- Bob W. -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Bartlett [SMTP:bartlett@slip.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 1997 2:04 PM To: mendo_recce@off-road.com Subject: Re: Gas mesh filter James Howard wrote: > > I am > wondering, what is the best way to attach this mesh to the tube? Is > there a petrol proof tape I can use, or will a nylon wire tie work, or what? >How about brazing/soldering it on? cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:03:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Gas mesh filter James Howard wrote: > > I am > wondering, what is the best way to attach this mesh to the tube? Is > there a petrol proof tape I can use, or will a nylon wire tie work, or what? >How about brazing/soldering it on? cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: "G. Mugele" Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 14:43:31 -0800 Subject: Re: CB40 >> >monocoque design - you could total the vehicle offroading much more readily >> >that with a box chassis design. > >Jeep Cherokees are unibody. How do they do? Now there's a good question. Has anyone ever actually seen a Cherokee off road? I mean other than the ones that slid into a ditch on their way to the ski slopes. :-) Gerry Mugele *** Do they sterilize the needles used for lethal injections? ------------------------------------ From: "Rick Larson" Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:35:44 -0800 Subject: Re: CB40 On Feb 6, 10:35am, James Howard wrote: > Subject: Re: CB40 > On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Granville Pool wrote: > > > >One question I have is if the body gets dinged up offroad does that compromise > > >the integrity of the vehicle. It seems like this is a much higher risk with a > > >monocoque design - you could total the vehicle offroading much more readily > > >that with a box chassis design. Or am I out to lunch? > > > > Jeep Cherokees are unibody. How do they do? > > James >-- End of excerpt from James Howard Very well. There were three on the Rubicon trip I took. Two Classic and on Grand. They actually did "better" than the D90. They were running bigger tires and with lifts had more clearance. An Amigo also came along. It was interesting because body flex induced a big dimple in the body right behind the doors. (Actually right behind the driver and passenger windows on the roof pillar.) Think the Amigo has IFS. It bottomed everywhere. With IFS the wheels don't necessarily lift the Diff over obstacles. Without portal gearing like the Hummer you get less "real clearance under the diffs in alot of situations. Like everything else there can be good and bad implementations using a given design technique. I've had my D90 so crossed up that I couldn't close the doors after I had gotten out to see what I got myself into. Something was flexing.... -Rick ------------------------------------ From: Bob Watson Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:18:27 -0800 Subject: RE: Rack information Gerry, Thanks for the info! The burning question is why aren't you getting the spare tire mount? Are you going all the way to Belize (a 1500 mile journey after all :-) ) and back with only 1 spare tire?! I don't know if you already have the ladder on the back door, but having had a roof rack and NO ladder, I'd recommend adding the ladder. (I finally put one on last month, BTW) Since I got tired of almost falling off the spare tire trying to get stuff in/out of the roof rack. Happy Trails! -- Bob W. -----Original Message----- From: GElam30092@aol.com [SMTP:GElam30092@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 1997 1:42 PM To: rro@playground.sun.com; azlro@stat.com; mendo_recce@off-road.com Subject: Rack information Accessories include light brackets (4" and 6") both at $15.95 as well as various cargo nets ($79.95), ladders ($129.95-$149.95), spare tire bracket ($79.95), etc. ------------------------------------ From: Bob Watson Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:49:12 -0800 Subject: RE: CB40 I saw a Cherokee (classic) off road. It was lifted 6", 33-35" tires (can't remember which), ARB bumper, Warn 9000 XD, etc, etc. Not exactly a mall runner ! -- Bob W. -----Original Message----- From: G. Mugele [SMTP:mewgull@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 1997 2:44 PM To: PCLRO Subject: Re: CB40 >> >monocoque design - you could total the vehicle offroading much more readily >> >that with a box chassis design. > >Jeep Cherokees are unibody. How do they do? Now there's a good question. Has anyone ever actually seen a Cherokee off road? I mean other than the ones that slid into a ditch on their way to the ski slopes. :-) Gerry Mugele *** Do they sterilize the needles used for lethal injections? ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:23:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Gas mesh filter Bob Watson wrote: > > What about a small hose clamp? Then you can replace it again later. > I tried that. It would have to be very small. The one I tried was standard size and wouldn't fit through the hole for the pipe. :( cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:31:32 -0800 Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Was from Jeremy: >Are rear PTOs constantly operating or are they engaged like an overdrive (presumably >with a different lever)? I assume from the above limited description that this >is the case. Yes engage with a lever. I've got one here and I'm holding it up so you can see it. OK? > >Does engaging the PTO disengage the rest of the drivetrain from the transfer box on? NO if you want neutral, you put transfer in neutral. >In other words, does use of a rear PTO effectively put the vehicle in neutral? Can the >vehicle be driven while the PTO is operated? Sure, There was even a trailer with drive axles that drove from the PTO through a driveshaft in the frame that gave 6WD. > >Finally I'm wondering if its possible to power the vehicle from an alternate power source >through a PTO. I'm investigating this as a means of providing very low speed drive "on demand" Technically sounds possible, engage PTO, Put transmission in neutral to eliminate engine, and the transfer should drive through to the drive shafts. Dont know about very low speed drive, as the PTOshaft would be turning the same RPM as the engine would. The PTO is mounted to the output of the transmission where the ratio in 4th is 1:1 . So feeding 800RPM into the PTO should be kinda like having the engine running at 800RPM. Of course my range of experience is on the series. And in fact the S1 owners manual I used to have also gave the PTO RPM's as related to the engine RPM and which gear you selected. Later, Bob B >I have come across the odd reference to a vehicle being driven by input from >the rear PTO when the PTO is connected to an alternate power source, so this seems to be >the case. (This implies that the PTO doesn't disengage the rest of the drive train but I can't >reconcile that with the LR description of operating it in 4th (unless they mean neutral)). This >is my primary concern and the basis for the above questions. > >Thanks for alleviating my ignorance. > >cheers, > >Jeremy > ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:38:11 -0800 Subject: FTC988 was Re: granny low (was: PTO Function/Operation?) John Ousterhout wrote: > > Jeremy has what I think is a cool idea: take engine power (from the front), > to constantly drive a hydraulic pump (like I'm doing for my winch), that > would power a hydraulic motor (manually controlled by a valve) that drives > the wheels through the transfer case at a lower ratio than is offered by the > gear box. My thoughts exactly, although I can't claim 100% of the idea. Vance Chin prompted me to think more along the lines of hydraulics than electrics. Your posts on the hydraulic pumps/winches convinced me of the feasability of that end of things. > With careful parts selection, no excessive torques would be > created that might break things. If the transfer case is engaged, then the > transmission output shaft always turns with the wheels, even when the clutch > is depressed (poor thing) or the tranny is in neutral. This means that > putting power INTO the transfer case via the PTO will get power to the > wheels with the main box in neutral. This would be better than slipping the > clutch for rock-crawling. > JohnO Exactly (or mud creeping, etc., engine running, gearbox neutral, transfer engaged low, hydraulic pump switched on.. I'm more interested in articulation and low torque than "power and lift" :). I'm getting tired of smelling my clutch on some of the bits I get into and don't want to alter the "streetability" of the vehicle to do a bit of crawling now and again. (Although I do admit to not wanting to alter the vehicle to the extent that there's no "challenge" in offroading). So the first parts specific question is has anyone every installed a PTO on a Rover 5 spd/LT230 box? The part number is FTC988 for the v8 (different from FTC989 which is for the "4cyl" - odd they'd designate differences like that I'd have thought it would be by box/transfer type). The info. is from a UK LR accessories brochure and I've tracked down a FTC988. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: jouster@redm.primextech.com (John Ousterhout) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:26:17 -0800 Subject: granny low (was: PTO Function/Operation?) Jeremy has what I think is a cool idea: take engine power (from the front), to constantly drive a hydraulic pump (like I'm doing for my winch), that would power a hydraulic motor (manually controlled by a valve) that drives the wheels through the transfer case at a lower ratio than is offered by the gear box. With careful parts selection, no excessive torques would be created that might break things. If the transfer case is engaged, then the transmission output shaft always turns with the wheels, even when the clutch is depressed (poor thing) or the tranny is in neutral. This means that putting power INTO the transfer case via the PTO will get power to the wheels with the main box in neutral. This would be better than slipping the clutch for rock-crawling. JohnO ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 15:30:04 PST Subject: Re: Gas mesh filter > > > The pickup tube that suck fuel out of my 88"'s gas tank used to have a > brass, mesh filter bag over the end of it (at least that is what remains > on there). The tube clogs up with junk periodically, so I made a > replacement out of some 304 stainless mesh we have lying around. I am > wondering, what is the best way to attach this mesh to the tube? Is > there a petrol proof tape I can use, or will a nylon wire tie work, or what? > > Thanks, > > James > > Silver solder? JB Weld? Leave it off? The Mog has a slide-on pre filter that can't come off until you pull the tube or drop the drain... Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:39:15 -0800 Subject: RE: Gas mesh filter >What about a small hose clamp? Then you can replace it again later. >ndering, what is the best way to attach this mesh to the tube? Is The small clamp won't fit through the little hole the tube mounts in. the soldering/ brazing trick sounds good. Bob B >> there a petrol proof tape I can use, or will a nylon wire tie work, or what? >>How about brazing/soldering it on? > >cheers, > >Jeremy > ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:54:03 -0800 Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Bob and Sue Bernard wrote: > snip > Yes engage with a lever. > I've got one here and I'm holding it up so you can see it. OK? Vaguely.. can you wave it a bit.. the valley's hazy today. snip > Technically sounds possible, engage PTO, Put transmission in neutral to > eliminate engine, and the transfer should drive through to the drive shafts. > Dont know about very low speed drive, as the PTOshaft would be turning the > same RPM as the engine would. > The PTO is mounted to the output of the transmission where the ratio in 4th > is 1:1 . So feeding 800RPM into the PTO should be kinda like having the > engine running at 800RPM. Yup another key question. Can a hydraulic system function effectively at "low flow" or does it start to become inefficient due to leakage past the pump etc. (I'm clueless here). > Of course my range of experience is on the series. > And in fact the S1 owners manual I used to have also gave the PTO RPM's as > related to the engine RPM and which gear you selected. Hmm.. sort of interesting. I'll have to check my manual and see if the same thing's there. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 15:34:58 PST Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? > > Kelly said: > > >In theory, you could drive the pto backwards and put power into the transfer > >box, but the transmission would probably have to be in neutral. > > Eh? How would you run a PTO with the gearbox in neutral? The PTO only can > get power when the tranny's in gear. > If you had power coming into the pto, the transmission in neutral and the transfer case in gear, it should move the vehicle, eh? Maybe I'm way off, too? Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: Chris Dow Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:54:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Disco lease Lee Zeltzer (ISD) wrote: Disco lease: I figured based on the $ I spent up front (I don't remember how much, but in the neighborhood of $6K), and the end-payment (~15K), it worked out to < 4%. That only works, of course, if you have the $$ up front and at the end. Since I do, I'm not worried. The ability to turn it in if it was a lemon was important to me, as this was my first British 'car'. > But what happens if you take it off road and "abuse it" a new > definition of using it for what it was designed? I asked this question specifically, and was told that pinstriping and door dings were expected, while 'dents' weren't. Since we've had pretty good luck with our Disco, I think we'll probably turn it in and get a SE-7 (or equiv) next year. C ------------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bartlett Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:57:19 -0800 Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Kelly Minnick wrote: > > > > > Kelly said: > > > > >In theory, you could drive the pto backwards and put power into the transfer > > >box, but the transmission would probably have to be in neutral. > > > > Eh? How would you run a PTO with the gearbox in neutral? The PTO only can > > get power when the tranny's in gear. > > > > If you had power coming into the pto, the transmission in neutral and the > transfer case in gear, it should move the vehicle, eh? Maybe I'm way off, > too? > Seems to me you're both right from different ends. :) Drive the PTO vs. drive with it. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: "Rick Larson" Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:36:21 -0800 Subject: Re: FTC988 was Re: granny low (was: PTO Function/Operation?) > So the first parts specific question is has anyone every installed a PTO > on a Rover 5 spd/LT230 box? The part number is FTC988 for the v8 (different from FTC989 > which is for the "4cyl" - odd they'd designate differences like that I'd > have thought it would be by box/transfer type). The info. is from a UK LR > accessories brochure and I've tracked down a FTC988. > > cheers, > > Jeremy >-- End of excerpt from Jeremy Bartlett Hey, where/how do you get such accessories brochures. I'd be very interested in the "PTO". My experience with the standard D90 steering pump under high load has not been good. It boiled over on me once. While winching in some thick mud for a couple hours. I've heard that its relatively low capacity derates the Mile Marker winch by a good 2000lbs to 7000lbs. Think the advertised 9000lbs is with a GM pump. Anyway, I've been thinking, and this isn't something that would happen anytime soon, run a pump off the PTO. Then do something like running front and rear hydraulic winches. :) Rick '94 D90 (Low gears, lots and lots of articulation, lifted, worn clutch, will be interesting to see if/how it works......) '96 M3 (strongly biased toward street driving so the D90 doesn't have to be) ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 16:40:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CB40 >> >>Jeep Cherokees are unibody. How do they do? > >Now there's a good question. Has anyone ever actually seen a Cherokee >off road? I mean other than the ones that slid into a ditch on their way >to the ski slopes. :-) > > >Gerry Mugele >*** Do they sterilize the needles used for lethal injections? > I have asked several of my friends that work for the BLM in Southern Nevada and California what they think about the Jeep Cherokees they have to use. Their primary concerns are that the bodies flex so much they often crimp the left fender sheet metal directly in front of the driver's door. This makes it harder than heck to open and shut the door in the field. They all seem to like the Grand Cherokees though. They get a lot of these Jeeps because of the low bid Fed contract mentality prevelant in gov't now a days. They also are not gonzo drivers as they really catch hell every time they so much as scratch a vehicle. This is one of the primary reasons I have never really considered a Cherokee for off-roading. A least they are a little tighter than the old Wagoneers. The Wagoneers were dust bowls that could go anywhere you could drag the axles over. Dang good rigs. ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: Uncle Roger Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:38:42 -0800 Subject: Re: Aluminum Roof Racks for D90. At 10:00 PM 2/5/97 -1000, you wrote: >Call me cheap but I can't see spending $1500 bucks on something that I'll >rarely use and can't get in the garage the rest of the time. Hmmm... I did >spend $30+ on the Disco but it does get used quite a bit .... nevermind! I got my rach for $500 (I think) but I would pay $1500 easily for it. It's been a great addition on trips, both short and small. When my folks closed their office, we loaded the rack with bankers boxes. On camping trips and vacations, the porta-potty goes up there (for Rachel), as does the table and chairs. I've got two boxes that fit great on top for stuff that's not needed as often, or for souvenirs. The water bottles (5gal Black Mountain Spring Water) go up top too. When it gets back on the road and I take my dad out and about, he'll probably end up sleeping inside, and I'll sleep on the rack. It's a great place to sit and watch the stars. (Or fireworks.) Mine too has a ladder down the left rear side, but I wouldn't mind picking up a lightweight fire ladder that I could just hang off the side anywhere -- or one of those steps that sit on the tire. I've got a couple of lights that I'm gonna mount on the front of the rack, and I want to get a worklight for the back. (And maybe a couple of brake lights to hang under it too.) When I get around to getting a jackall, that'll get mounted up there, as do the jerrycans. I want to get some tie-down hooks that fold flat (prolly from west marine) and mount 'em into the deck. Overall, I'd say that given a stock 109", my upgrades would be an overdrive (toro), Roof rack, second gas tank, storage bins/boxes (in front of the rear wheels), and a second battery. 16" wheels are a must, IMO, along with a CB. Just a nickel's worth of free advice... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ ------------------------------------ From: dickins@exemplar.com (Scott Dickinson) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:22:58 -0800 Subject: A poem... Mindless Who-Be-Who post-margurita Dr. Seuss poem: Could I, would I be a cynic, Should I think this is a gimmick? Is it Keven Kelly and Kelly Minnick? Or Kelly Kelly and Kevin Minnick? They both have Rovers, can't disagree. Both are smart with their degrees. They both know Rangies to a Tee, But are they different? Most certainly! One is married with kids and wife, The other's single, now that's the life! One's in Ridgecrest, the desert near. The other in Burlingame, right up here. Should I know what all this means, Would it add up to a hill of beans? Not really much to you or me, But makes a difference to them you see. So who are they? Hang on a minute... Its Kevin Kelly and Kelly Minnick! Scott '91 Er, what do I have? ------------------------------------ From: Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:38:48 -0800 Subject: Re: FTC988 was Re: granny low (was: PTO Function/Operation?) > From Rick Thu Feb 6 16:41:20 1997 > > Anyway, I've been thinking, and this isn't something that would happen > anytime soon, run a pump off the PTO. Then do something like running > front and rear hydraulic winches. :) Hey Tom, as long as your car is still at SG ..... ? ;) -Doug F. ------------------------------------ From: Don MacDonald Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:09:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Transmissions & TD's????? Can anyone tell me what the difference between these transmissions because I'm trying to decide how to rebuild my dad's 88" IIA. I'm thinking about bringing in a coil frame with axles, a 200Tdi and a 5 speed tranny. But I don't know the difference. LT95 LT230 R380... As far as the Turbo Diesel I don't know much about them either I guess I have a few choices: 2.5 TD short. 200 TDi short 300 TDi short I got these from the L.E.G.S. ad in the LROI. Any advice you can give me. Thanks Don MacDonald ----------------------------------------------- Don MacDonald http://mypage.direct.ca/d/don ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ From: Granville Pool Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:30:10 -0800 Subject: Re: PTO Function/Operation? Jeremy, >Seems to me you're both right from different ends. :) > >Drive the PTO vs. drive with it. Right. I was a little dense but realized my confusion eventually! You're idea is brilliant: A power take-on! A hydrostatic-drive Land Rover!! I was telling a fellow at work about this and he was intrigued. But then he said: He could just get an automatic transmission! Well, he's right. But, even with an auto box this seems like a good idea to me. You can burn up clutches with an auto too. When we were on Mendo Recce II (Mud Run I), I was trying to get my Do*g* unstuck in the snow and could smell clutch burning big-time with my automatic. He pointed out another shortcoming, too: You'd not have forward and reverse, only one direction. Right? Or can you get a reversible hydraulic motor? I guess I could always canibalize the separate forward/reverse box from my good-for-nothing-else-anyway Austin Champ and splice that between the PTO and the hydraulic motor. I even have a double PTO that would work for this scheme and actually let me have a PTO winch as well. But only for a Series beast. Cheers, Granny ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 21:36:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Upgrades, was Aluminum Roof Racks for D90. > >When I get around to getting a jackall, that'll get mounted up there, as do >the jerrycans. I want to get some tie-down hooks that fold flat (prolly >from west marine) and mount 'em into the deck. > >Overall, I'd say that given a stock 109", my upgrades would be an overdrive >(toro), Roof rack, second gas tank, storage bins/boxes (in front of the rear >wheels), and a second battery. 16" wheels are a must, IMO, along with a CB. > >Just a nickel's worth of free advice... > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger Let's see...Jackall, got a highlift, overdrive (Toro), got a Superwinch, roof rack, yep, but not quite as strong as yours, second gas tank, O.K. got one, but left empty this winter and now have rust in gas problem, see below...Storage bins/boxes, not yet, other than rubber maids and ammo cans, second battery, not yet, 16" wheels, yep, and CB, well, am installing a older Yaesu FT-707 ham rig with crystals covering the CB bands installed - best of both worlds. Now about that second gas tank. I think I'm getting excessive amounts of rust and crud out of it into the fuel line and into the Weber 1 bbl carb. Got a great engine but lots of problems with the carb all of a sudden. I find fine grit in the glas fuel bowl and also sediment (looks like loess or fine clay) along with sediment in the depression in front of the jets in the carb. I've popped the top off the carb twice and pumped a can of carb cleaner through it, and still have problems. It almost idles right, but the idle still has a bit of a roll to it. On accelleration the carb pops the air filter off of it, the engine sputters and dies. There is a black carbon residue inside the carb's air intake caused by the gas burning in the intake manifold (I'm guessing at this) which is visable both times I've pulled the top of the carb off. I don't think that this is an electrical problem. I have a new coil, distributor cap, plugs and wires on the new engine. I get great spark off the coil wire. The problem showed up once I reinstalled the carb on the new engine. It's gotten worse every time I gave the carb a mini-cleanup. A total lack of power. If I force it, the car will run well for a short time (several hundred yards), then the carb starts popping and the power disappears. It gets so bad that I can't drive it up the incline into the garage. After gunning it a couple of times, giving it some chock, and using the appropriate profanity, it suddenly has power again (for a very short time)! Soooo, does anyone have any ideas? A rebuild kit into the carb (it's only about a year old)? Anyone have any suggestions about an in-line fuel filter? Know of any really good ones? HELP! ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 21:40:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: A poem... >Mindless Who-Be-Who post-margurita Dr. >Seuss poem: > >Could I, would I be a cynic, >Should I think this is a gimmick? >Is it Keven Kelly and Kelly Minnick? >Or Kelly Kelly and Kevin Minnick? >They both have Rovers, can't disagree. >Both are smart with their degrees. >They both know Rangies to a Tee, >But are they different? Most certainly! >One is married with kids and wife, >The other's single, now that's the life! >One's in Ridgecrest, the desert near. >The other in Burlingame, right up here. >Should I know what all this means, >Would it add up to a hill of beans? >Not really much to you or me, >But makes a difference to them you see. >So who are they? Hang on a minute... >Its Kevin Kelly and Kelly Minnick! > >Scott >'91 Er, what do I have? > Don't know Scott, I'm finishing my second Black Dog Ale and it sounds pretty good to me. Now let's see, Kelly is Irish, right? So Kevin Kelly has ancestors from the Emerald Isle, but what about Kelly Minnick? Must be one of us Heinz 57 Americans, eh?? ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: davery@on-ramp.ior.com (Dale W. Avery) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 21:54:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Where's Jim Russell?? What happened to Master James of the keen wit and the well honed insight? Is he sitting on some mountain top meditating on 88's? Has he found God? A mistress maybe? The secrect river crossing? Is he finding new uses for used 90 wt? Is Ronald Reagan giving him insights on how to become the world's greatest politician (e.g. put your faith and the country's future in the hands of an astrologer from San Francisco)? Has he found a way to keep rear cross members from rusting? Has he joined a 12 step club and abandoned us ("Hi, I'm Jim and I'm a Land Rover addict." Chorus .. "Hello, Jim.")? Is he is hiding in a small desert town in eastern Oregon to keep from being picked up by the Californian Smog Nazis?? Where is the little wanker???? I miss him! ----- Dale W. Avery KC7MM & Ms Daisy '73-SIII-88" "No matter where you go, there you are." ------------------------------------ From: Michael Penwarden <0006610577@mcimail.com> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 02:22 EST Subject: Re: Disco lease -- [ From: Michael Penwarden * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Yeah -- I asked RAB about the service contract, but they're only offering it on a lease right now. I'd rather buy, so I can look forward to a (now very distant ) time when I'll have no car payments. Along the same lines, since I want to keep the truck for as long as possible (at least 100K -- hopefully more if it behaves) I let you guys talk me into getting the more durable leather seats instead of cloth. So -- you owe me $1800 bucks ;-). I decided on an Oxford Blue SD w/ Leather. But I'm going to be out of the country for the next two weeks (Ben -- can you take me off the list? I'll email you when I get back on the 24th to be hooked back up), so I'll pick it up when I get back -- it'll be something to look forward to as I return to reality after two weeks in Europe! (and then the payments will start ...) Till then ... Michael ------------------------------------ From: Kevin Kelly Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:09:34 -0800 Subject: Southern California Land Rover Club Meetings >Southern California Land Rover will have it's *first* official >club meeting this Friday. It looks like I may be flying down to S. Cal a bunch of times over the next couple months and it would be nice I had a couple days notice before the next meeting. It would fun to meet with a bunch of LR owners and catch a later flight out of John Wayne. Kevin Kelly ------------------------------------ From: Kevin Kelly Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:10:28 -0800 Subject: What Color is Evan? >Anyway, I'll be looking for Evan heading S. Don't think I've >seen him yet. What color is he? Scott's Great Divide Edition should be easy to spot, like the D110 you could get a Great Divide in any color you wanted, as long as it was white ;-) Kevin Kelly ** Notice New E-mail Address ** ------------------------------------ From: Kevin Kelly Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:18:22 -0800 Subject: Rear PTO >I am considering installing a rear PTO but I've never used one. Inquiring minds want to know what for? I seen old Land Rovers with a rear PTO connected to a trailer with a Land Rover axle for six wheel drive. I always thought this set up would be great for launching boats at small lakes without any launch ramps. Kevin Kelly ------------------------------------ From: seagul@vville.com (Michael) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:18:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hotel Utah "party" tonight. Hello all, Is anyone planning to go to the Hotel Utah "party" tonight? I am planning to go but would prefer not to be the only one there! I heard a rumor that all martinis in San Francisco will be only $1.00 tomorrow night in honor of Herb Caen. Who Knows. see you at the Utah at 7:pm. -Michael Costuros National Campaign for the Freedom of Experession http://www.freeexpression.org/ - Vaudeville Multimedia - http://www.sirius.com/~vaudevil/ ------------------------------------ End of Digest