From: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: Digest for mendo_recce: 8/23/1996 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Reply-To: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------ From: KKelly6788@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 02:14:41 -0400 Subject: Guages with idiot lights >P.S. I think it might be worth my $$$ to get one of them ignition >cutoff's that shuts the engine down above a given temperature. I seem to >be very unobservant of the gauge reading... On some race cars they have a big red light that goes on if any of the gauges get above or below a certain point. This would let you shut down the engine when it is safe to do so. I would not want the engine to just shut off on the train tracks it the engine was getting hot. Kevin Kelly ------------------------------------ From: KKelly6788@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 02:14:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Re:ETS the Range Rover I just got this e-mail tonight, but I have not had time to look at the site. He is the same guy that sent the postcard on RR ECU repair to the LROA. Kevin Kelly >Subj: New - Diagnostic Web Site >Date: 96-08-22 10:51:27 EDT >From: rod@carelect.demon.co.uk (Rod Westbury) >My long promised electronic fuel injection problems diagnostic site is >now under trial at- http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk -starting with Range >Rover ECU problems. >Please can you visit and let me have your comments on access, >viewability, usefulness? etc. >Best regards, >Rod Westbury ------------------------------------ From: KKelly6788@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 02:14:48 -0400 Subject: Rubicon Trail on a Bike I thought the list might like to see this, I got it from my friend Dan that lives in Tahoe Edited for the Mendo List by Kevin Kelly Kevin, How’s it going ??. Sorry for taking so long, but I have had a busy last week. When I went to log on I found that my server had disconnected me again for no reason whatsoever. It took them another two days to get me reconnected. They are totally lame... Anyway, Last week as a last minute thing my motorcycle riding friend Tim called me to see if I wanted to check out part of the Rubicon trail. We rode our bikes to Tahoma, got gas, and started our ride at about noon. We basically started the ride where most people come out, so we basically did the ride backwards. The first ten miles was basically straight forward, nothing to tough. The next two leading down to Rubicon springs was hard, (If you could believe going downhill could be hard) but nothing that I hadn’t seen before. We stopped at Rubicon Springs and had lunch, we had done the first 12 miles in about an hour and a half. We stopped for about 15 minutes. After lunch, we started out again, the next half mile wasn’t so bad, until we came to this bridge. The bridge looked fairly new, however there was this concrete lip that was about 18 inches high with only some large rocks to act as a ramp up. (the road leading to the bridge was also steep.) to compound matters, a group of about 20 boy scouts who were hiking, stopped to watch us get over the bridge. Tim lost the draw and had to go first. He is a very good rider and had little trouble jumping the lip. I went next, getting a good running start and jumping the lip only to land and have to slam on my brakes to slow down. (The boy scouts applauded at having seen a good show) This bridge wouldn’t be hard for a four wheel drive to cross. Probably a lot less dramatic at least !. Anyway, we almost immediately entered the area called little sluice. This proved to be the worst mile I have ever encountered in my off road life !!!. It was a "road" that resembled a dried up stream bed going up hill at about 45 degrees. When we got to the top, I was so hot that my Levis were soaked !! So far I had only dropped my bike once (Tim had dropped his about three times) ha,ha. Anyway, we get to the top and here is this old guy just sitting there. We stopped and took a break, and talked to him. It turned out that this guy is a photographer for J##p, and he is there to shoot photos of the new ' 97 J##p CJ. We talked to him for a while and rested. (At this point I would of turned around in a heartbeat if I didn’t have to ride back down that damn sluice !!) The road began to improve a little and after a little while we ran into 30 - 1997 J##p CJ’s. They were being driven by dealers who got the trip as a perk. The dealers were being guided by pro's who would walk along side giving advice. I will say this much, the J##ps that we saw, we were told were stock off the lot CJ’s with the tires being the only thing not being factory. I saw those J##ps doing things that appeared pretty impressive. One of the guides told me that they run these J##ps through about four times and then they crush them !!!. The rest of the trip was "hard", but nothing like the little sluice. We got out at Loon lake. It took us five hours and twenty minutes and was 18.75 miles. We got out: exhausted, beat up, cut up, and dehydrated. It was 40 miles out from Loon lake to HWY. 50. My bike had a dented gas tank, a stretched chain, a screwed up clutch, a badly gouged transmission case , a ripped up back tire, and a badly mashed skid plate. Would I do it again ?? HELL NO !! My bike is still in the shop. I would only advise someone to go on it with the thought in mind that they would have no problem with rolling their truck. Besides taking half an auto parts store with them, I think lots of spare gas, water and a VERY good winch would be good ideas. Also, we ran in a few people out there who were nice enough and able to give us good and accurate directions. We had good maps, a compass, and an altimeter, but there were a lot of roads out there that were not on maps. It could of been real tough without directions. Dan ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 23:26:06 PDT Subject: Re: RR fuel pump > Be prepared, but be safe as well. > > Steve > Since I live where it gets 115 - 119 in the shade, I Never go out farther than I can walk in an hour or 1 1/2 with water (that is, driving alone). Up (or down) here, we always carry water. I always go on major trips with at least one more vehicle. \ I think fuel pump failure is quite rare. I would suspect the relay before the pump, but I've replaced pumps, too. There are Many RR's with over 120K miles on them that have never replaced theirs. Had a friend with a Bronco II (wonderful piece of you know what). Broke in the worst possible location - just plain died! Towing out was NOT a good option. We ran into town and he bought a new coil, ECU, and TIV module that goes on the outside of the distributor (and the 'special' tool needed to get it off. Went back out. Turns out it was none of the above. There is a module inside the distributor that is very common (replaced 3 already on other vehicles) to go out. To get at this thing, you have to pull the dist. and pull the gear off (after driving the gear pin out). Not an easy field operation. I ended up towing him out to his house so we could work with real tools. (since we didn't have that part anyhow). Anything can break - just ask Ben. That's why he carries spare engines with him! Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 23:29:46 PDT Subject: Re: Crack in Heated Range Rover Windshield > 4. Should I file a report with the CHP today or is it OK to wait and see if I > get a check next week? > > Kevin Kelly > '89 Range Rover with cracked heated windshield. > > The guy who hit me cutting a corner is now claiming that I was pulling out and that's why he hit me... file the report - NOW :( Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:37:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Guages with idiot lights At 2:14 AM 8/23/96 -0400, KKelly6788@aol.com wrote: >>P.S. I think it might be worth my $$$ to get one of them ignition >>cutoff's that shuts the engine down above a given temperature. I seem to >>be very unobservant of the gauge reading... > >On some race cars they have a big red light that goes on if any of the gauges >get above or below a certain point. This would let you shut down the engine >when it is safe to do so. I would not want the engine to just shut off on >the train tracks it the engine was getting hot. > >Kevin Kelly Idiot lights often are set to go off a a very low pressure, not zero pressure. They also react much faster then a mechanical guage and are a lot more noticable under poor light. My 109 has both an idiot light and a guage. The idiot light is there to get my attention, the guage for me to evaluate the overall pressure. Thats also why I have a generator light, volt meter and ampmeter. TeriAnn twakeman@scruznet.com ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:26:19 -0400 Subject: Fwd: RR fuel pump Yes, vehicle recovery must be considered. I'd rather drive out, personally (pride, I guess). But you bring up a very good point. Can someone hit the other lists (Jeep, etc.) and see what they do in similar circumstances (OK, make your jokes then move on). Experience is a good teacher, and only fools don't seek it out. Since Jeeps have all the same basic systems, and I refuse to accept that the quality of the components is that much better, they must have developed ways of dealing with EFI/ECU controlled engine failures in the field. I think Toyotas use a similar port injection system (I think most Jeeps are TBS, but the Cherokees may be port). Might be worth asking. Steve/BRITPAC --------------------- Forwarded message: From: minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil (Kelly Minnick) Resent-from: daemon@ridgecrest.ca.us ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ From: minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil (Kelly Minnick) Date: 96-08-23 02:31:25 EDT > Be prepared, but be safe as well. > > Steve > Since I live where it gets 115 - 119 in the shade, I Never go out farther than I can walk in an hour or 1 1/2 with water (that is, driving alone). Up (or down) here, we always carry water. I always go on major trips with at least one more vehicle. \ I think fuel pump failure is quite rare. I would suspect the relay before the pump, but I've replaced pumps, too. There are Many RR's with over 120K miles on them that have never replaced theirs. Had a friend with a Bronco II (wonderful piece of you know what). Broke in the worst possible location - just plain died! Towing out was NOT a good option. We ran into town and he bought a new coil, ECU, and TIV module that goes on the outside of the distributor (and the 'special' tool needed to get it off. Went back out. Turns out it was none of the above. There is a module inside the distributor that is very common (replaced 3 already on other vehicles) to go out. To get at this thing, you have to pull the dist. and pull the gear off (after driving the gear pin out). Not an easy field operation. I ended up towing him out to his house so we could work with real tools. (since we didn't have that part anyhow). Anything can break - just ask Ben. That's why he carries spare engines with him! Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: GElam30092@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:19:24 -0400 Subject: Baffles in the fuel tank.... Gerry writes "LRs have some sort of baffles in the filler neck (they say) to prevent siphoning. " True but you can get around the baffles... at least in the Discovery. When James Howard, Dave Brown and I were out in the Verde Valley last fall, James ran out of gas on the second day. We stripped a fuel line out of his Series III to siphon gas from my Discovery. I remember that it was real difficult getting the end of the hose in the fuel but if you twist the hose as you push down, you can rotate the end past the obstruction. Gerry "Phx AZ" Elam ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:34:07 -0400 Subject: RR ETS manual The Range Rover Electronic Trouble Shooting Manual isn't widely available, but we will stock one from now on. It applies to pre '92 models, and sells for $180.00. Don't know if it comes with binder (my guess is that it does), but there is no option either way. Just let us know if you want one (give us about 3 days as it's coming from Tennessee). Steve/BRITPAC ------------------------------------ From: "Robert Watson (CNA/Solutions)" Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:44:44 -0700 Subject: RE: RR fuel pump As far as I know, the Jeep 4-cyl (2.5L) and the 6-cyl (4.0L) Jeep engines are both port injected. I don't know about the v-8. I posed this question to the 4WD club at work so we'll see what the response is... My guess is that unless you dunk it, the failure rate on these high $$ items is too low to worry about. More likely some intermediate component (wire, connector or sensor) will fail first. (that's my uneducated conjecture any way). I'd like to know how to "hot wire" a bad sensor, for example: if a particular sensor goes bad, do you: a) short out the terminals b) leave them open c) insert some resistor (probably cheaper than a sensor) in order to get you to the parts store/dealer to buy a new one. I'm doing this on the assumption that it's impractical to carry one of each sensor that may fail, but practical to carry a "universal" stub to get you by. (I can't wait to start digging though the ETM....) -- Bob W. >---------- >From: BRITPAC@aol.com[SMTP:BRITPAC@aol.com] >Sent: Friday, August 23, 1996 9:26 AM >To: minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil >Cc: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us >Subject: Fwd: RR fuel pump > >Yes, vehicle recovery must be considered. I'd rather drive out, personally >(pride, I guess). But you bring up a very good point. > >Can someone hit the other lists (Jeep, etc.) and see what they do in similar >circumstances (OK, make your jokes then move on). Experience is a good >teacher, and only fools don't seek it out. Since Jeeps have all the same >basic systems, and I refuse to accept that the quality of the components is >that much better, they must have developed ways of dealing with EFI/ECU >controlled engine failures in the field. I think Toyotas use a similar port >injection system (I think most Jeeps are TBS, but the Cherokees may be port). > >Might be worth asking. > >Steve/BRITPAC >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >From: minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil (Kelly Minnick) >Resent-from: daemon@ridgecrest.ca.us ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:43:56 -0700 Subject: Lazy B Status I picked up a partial set of badges today (54 out of 88). I'll try to start distributing them this weekend. I've decided to try to get to as many people as possible. This means that people with larger orders (more than 1?) may only get partial delivery. At this point, without the exact orders in front of me, it might even be the case that some with only a single order will have to wait. If necessary, I'll eat the postage costs for sending out later packages to people with incomplete orders. Oh, well, at least they came out pretty well so far. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ End of Digest