From: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: Digest for mendo_recce: 8/16/1996 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Reply-To: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------ From: hatay@whidbey.net (Von Grey's) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:16:58 -0800 Subject: Rover roof racks Questions for the subscribers. I have a 68 109 safari sw, is there any type of roof racks that fit onto a rover without having to buy the traditional luggage carrier? I have tried yakima with the height extensions with no luck. Any suggestions? Also on my 64 88 there are brackets attached to the roof. They are located above the door frame and behind the alpine window. Is this a rover option? Thanks Paul Von Grey ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 23:46:42 PDT Subject: Re: Disco back On Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:54:11 +0000 you wrote: >also !!!!!!!!!!! Somebody ( I think the detailers ) drove the vehicle >into something ... IE: they mashed the top of my rack, bent the lips >on the roof, tried to put it back together, hoping I wouldn't >notice!!! What should I do... what are my rights... last time I had a >minor incedent ( misssing divers flashlight ) the dealer claimed it >was my problem ( flashlight = $90-$100 ) roof mess = ~~~$500 First thing you should do is call the dealer ASAP and let them know about the problem. Find out what the dealer wants to do about it. Chances are the dealer might not know about it. If the dealer did know about it, that would be sad... Next, *I* would suggest bringing that up with the LR Rep and let them know what happened and how you feel about it. The dealer is responsible for not smashing your vehicle while it is at their shop. They are required to carry insurance and if their mechanic is at fault, they must repair it properly, I would imagine to the owner satisfaction. For Land Rover dealers it usually means a complete replacement. Does this mean they will replace your rack with a new one ? A friend of mine has a '94 Defender and a small piece of the zipper had the stiching come out. He mentioned it to them when he just had it in for it's 30K tune-up. The dealer couldn't figure out how to repair the stiching so they gave him a complete new canvas top. He mentioned to me that he thought it cost about $800-$900 for the canvas top... One thing I don't like about this scenario is that it reminds me of IBM technical service engineers in the past, they just keep replacing parts at a whim, and eventually if you replace enough parts the problem will have gone away. I hate for that to always be the solution, since then you really don't get service, you almost get a dis-service in a way...:-/ Does that mean when you pay for the service rather than having LR foot the bill that you will have to replace the part, since that will be the solution and you should be happy with that ? >I just noticed it when I reviewed the vehicle at home so.... ? Call 'em first thing in the morning. Alan DuBoff - OS/2 Advisor aland@ibm.net Bunker Hill Software ------------------------------------ From: "Nick C. Baggarly" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 02:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: socket wrench question >>What is the best manufacturer of air compressors? I am planning to >>go with oiled compressor not the oilless because of the noise. But >>the money savings are still appealing. Do I need to always have the >>inline air filter on oiled compressors? What is the best size (120v >>required but ok with 120/240). >> I have a Devilbliss 30gal 4hp 110 compressor. It was the Sam's-Price-CostCO-Club solution for the masses $200. deal and, although my neighbors wouldn't agree it has worked out well through the past 8 months. It runs on 110 power but I've heard that the 220 oilless compressors are better on power usage. It works fine with the impact wrenches but falls short when it comes to high rpm tools like grinders and sanders. I'd like to sell it and buy a 60 gal 6 or 7 horse 220 compressor but I don't have the space. Still, I keep a list and daydream about building a four car shop with pits and lifts and a flat, smooth concrete floor with lots of work benches, tools, and space. Regardless of which compressor you get be sure to take care of it by cleaning/changing the filter and especially purging water using the drain valve at the bottom. Water inside will cause the compressor to rust from the inside out. _______ '64 IIa /_____/_| | '89 Range Rover | nick@ablecom.net Dormobile |__|_|\_\__ | '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) | 1-(408) 980-3649 [_~\_|__.-.; | '64 Dormobile | 1308771@skymail.com (0) (0)" | '66 Dormobile (Assembled!!) | Los Gatos, Calif. ------------------------------------ From: "Nick C. Baggarly" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 02:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) >One thing I don't like about this scenario is that it reminds me of >IBM technical service engineers in the past, they just keep replacing >parts at a whim, and eventually if you replace enough parts the >problem will have gone away. I hate for that to always be the >solution, since then you really don't get service, you almost get a >dis-service in a way...:-/ Does that mean when you pay for the service >rather than having LR foot the bill that you will have to replace the >part, since that will be the solution and you should be happy with >that I feel that there is something really wrong with the way some places do business today. Having a problem where the dealer just throws parts at it is just plain irresponsible service practice. It's the same with the old DEC service folks. During a typical service call they would replace 50% of the parts in our mainframes. But that was only allowed because 1. DEC was paying for it, and 2. The mainframe was owned by an aerospace corp; A customer who would never complain about such lazy service policies. I was just a kid then but recall feeling uneasy about the way they repaired things. Now I call BS on this every chance I get because, even if it's in your favor this time, the bottom line is that they are not intelligently diagnosing and repairing your problem which is what you're paying them to do. Why is this tolerated? I suppose it's because the customer usually makes out well as they receive newer parts. It can also be faster, requires less thought, and seems easier. And perhaps there's a lack of training or control from upper management to prevent this practice. Philosophically it's wrong and doesn't make for good business. Give 'em hell. _______ '64 IIa /_____/_| | '89 Range Rover | nick@ablecom.net Dormobile |__|_|\_\__ | '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) | 1-(408) 980-3649 [_~\_|__.-.; | '64 Dormobile | 1308771@skymail.com (0) (0)" | '66 Dormobile (Assembled!!) | Los Gatos, Calif. ------------------------------------ From: "John C. White, III" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 06:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) It's probably less time consuming for a mechanic to replace an assembly than take it apart and replace what's really wrong. If he takes time out to do the repair, he doesn't get to other vehicles as quickly, and this might make for irate customers. Given the number or Rovers that are being sold versus the number of trained mechanics available... The same would hold true for computer repair. Cheers! John At 02:34 16.08.96 -0700, Nick C. Baggarly wrote: > >>One thing I don't like about this scenario is that it reminds me of >>IBM technical service engineers in the past, they just keep replacing >>parts at a whim, and eventually if you replace enough parts the >>problem will have gone away. I hate for that to always be the >>solution, since then you really don't get service, you almost get a >>dis-service in a way...:-/ Does that mean when you pay for the service >>rather than having LR foot the bill that you will have to replace the >>part, since that will be the solution and you should be happy with >>that > >I feel that there is something really wrong with the way some places do >business today. Having a problem where the dealer just throws parts at it >is just plain irresponsible service practice. It's the same with the old DEC service >folks. During a typical service call they would replace 50% of the parts in our mainframes. >But that was only allowed because 1. DEC was paying for it, and 2. The mainframe was >owned by an aerospace corp; A customer who would never complain about such lazy service >policies. I was just a kid then but recall feeling uneasy about the way they repaired things. >Now I call BS on this every chance I get because, even if it's in your favor this time, >the bottom line is that they are not intelligently diagnosing and repairing your problem >which is what you're paying them to do. Why is this tolerated? I suppose it's because >the customer usually makes out well as they receive newer parts. It can also be faster, >requires less thought, and seems easier. And perhaps there's a lack of training or control >from upper management to prevent this practice. Philosophically it's wrong and doesn't >make for good business. Give 'em hell. > > > _______ >'64 IIa /_____/_| | '89 Range Rover | nick@ablecom.net >Dormobile |__|_|\_\__ | '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) | 1-(408) 980-3649 > [_~\_|__.-.; | '64 Dormobile | 1308771@skymail.com > (0) (0)" | '66 Dormobile (Assembled!!) | Los Gatos, Calif. > > > ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 7:59:46 PDT Subject: Re: Strike one > > Kelly said, > > >It took out my apron and may have > >messed up some of my tie-rods since now it doesn't steer straight. Any ideas > >which ones I should check (there are 4 of the silly things, let alone the ones > >on the steering linkage). Anyone have a right front apron they want to sell? > > > >The joys of restoring a vehicle... Any harder, and he might have broken my > >axle or taken out the door pillar... > > > >Kelly Minnick > > > Boy that's too bad. > We are talking series aren't we? > I'll check the aprons out back. > Is it the 5" one and only the front piece? > > On the tie rods, they should all be perfectly straight, and the wheels > parallel.Depending where he must have hit the wheel,The shock may have bent > the arm that comes off the hub that the tie rods hook to. > I'm guessing, because the tierods are in front on a series, and he probably > hit the rear of the wheel. > > Any of the newer vehicles with the rods in the rear of the axle would > probably have the tierod between the wheels bowed. > > Good luck, > Bob > > Thanks for the input Bob. He hit me square on the Warn Hub and the support for the fire wall... The sill is a 2" and is something like $42 from BP. Steering wheel is not 90 degrees to the left, but doesn't really pull too bat (not that you could tell with the 7.50 X 16 Bias ply...). This kid was making a left-hand turn onto my street and hit me on the RIGHT side of my vehicle. I was still sitting still. the left side of his vehicle was about 1 1/2 feet from the curb! Talk about cutting the corner! Anyhow, $1800 damage to the T-Bird, ~$450 to mine. Like a nice guy, I didn't call the police (saving him a ticket) and let him decide wether to use his insurance or not. Well, the insurance guy's story is that I was pulling out in front of this guy and he couldn't stop in time. What gives here? Try to be nice and see what happens? Well, being a mechanical engineer, it shouldn't be too hard to prove where the cars were by how the cars are hit! Later, Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: KKelly6788@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:06:20 -0400 Subject: Mendo Business Cards >I want mendo_recce business-sized cards to give out to the uinitiated when >I actually get outside and meet new people. I guess something like Ben's >cards. This would beat hunting for paper and pen when you're 60 miles the >other side of Paradise, for instance. I have a bunch of BMW CCA membership flyers that I keep in the cars, I typed up some information on the local Golden Gate chapter activities, various interntet resources and my put e-mail address if they want more info. I printed this on the lazer printer and made copies at the office and cut in to 3"x6" "business cards" to tape inside the flyers. I have been meaning to type something up to stick inside the LROA flyers that I have, but have not gotten around to it. Kevin Kelly ------------------------------------ From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:39:37 -0800 Subject: non-dealer Disco Mechanics in SF (was Sucky Service ) A bit off the subject, but I was wondering if anyone knows of a reputable non-dealer Disco Mechanic in San Francisco. I would think that very soon, if not already, there would be a crop of new independant Land Rover mechanics, that is mechanics that specialize in late model Range Rovers, Defenders and Disco's. There will be alot of Disco's out there whos warrantees have expired. I know I will be open to a non-dealer alternative for a mechanic when mine expires. I feel lucky that I found a good reasonable mechanic to work on our '72 250C mercedes. The dealer will charge us $100. to open the hood. Jeff >It's probably less time consuming for a mechanic to replace an assembly than >take it apart and replace what's really wrong. If he takes time out to do >the repair, he doesn't get to other vehicles as quickly, and this might make >for irate customers. Given the number or Rovers that are being sold versus >the number of trained mechanics available... The same would hold true for >computer repair. > >Cheers! >John > > >At 02:34 16.08.96 -0700, Nick C. Baggarly wrote: >> >>>One thing I don't like about this scenario is that it reminds me of >>>IBM technical service engineers in the past, they just keep replacing >>>parts at a whim, and eventually if you replace enough parts the >>>problem will have gone away. I hate for that to always be the >>>solution, since then you really don't get service, you almost get a >>>dis-service in a way...:-/ Does that mean when you pay for the service >>>rather than having LR foot the bill that you will have to replace the >>>part, since that will be the solution and you should be happy with >>>that >> >>I feel that there is something really wrong with the way some places do >>business today. Having a problem where the dealer just throws parts at it >>is just plain irresponsible service practice. It's the same with the old >DEC service >>folks. During a typical service call they would replace 50% of the parts in >our mainframes. >>But that was only allowed because 1. DEC was paying for it, and 2. The >mainframe was >>owned by an aerospace corp; A customer who would never complain about such >lazy service >>policies. I was just a kid then but recall feeling uneasy about the way >they repaired things. >>Now I call BS on this every chance I get because, even if it's in your >favor this time, >>the bottom line is that they are not intelligently diagnosing and repairing >your problem >>which is what you're paying them to do. Why is this tolerated? I suppose >it's because >>the customer usually makes out well as they receive newer parts. It can >also be faster, >>requires less thought, and seems easier. And perhaps there's a lack of >training or control >>from upper management to prevent this practice. Philosophically it's wrong >and doesn't >>make for good business. Give 'em hell. >> >> >> _______ >>'64 IIa /_____/_| | '89 Range Rover | nick@ablecom.net >>Dormobile |__|_|\_\__ | '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) | 1-(408) 980-3649 >> [_~\_|__.-.; | '64 Dormobile | 1308771@skymail.com >> (0) (0)" | '66 Dormobile (Assembled!!) | Los Gatos, Calif. >> >> >> ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 09:05:39 PDT Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 02:34:38 -0700 (PDT) you wrote: >Having a problem where the dealer just throws parts at it >is just plain irresponsible service practice snip... >Philosophically it's wrong and doesn't >make for good business. Give 'em hell. I agree, they should get hell for it. They are not servicing the cards that way, they are just throwing parts at them. I have heard so many horror stories about people taking their new LRs in and getting new parts, sometimes rear-ends, transmissions, fuel pumps, transfer cases, etc...but it's always the way the person tells about it, kinda like, "well, they decided they would just throw the new part in and see if the problem went away...". Then the next day/week you hear from them, "well, the noise is still there...". Maybe it's me, but if there is a problem I want to see them diagnose the problem, and then I want to see the proper solution, that is how I would hope to fix something myself. Alan DuBoff - OS/2 Advisor aland@ibm.net Bunker Hill Software ------------------------------------ From: "Mugele, Gerry" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 09:37:00 PDT Subject: RE: Advice on off road trails >> Most of these roads are more or less open but are >>dotted with intimidating signs. >Intimidating in what way?...trespassers will be shot or road closed? I >wouldn't want to stumble across someones crop if thats what you mean. I don't think there are any problems with crops in that area. (More knuckle-dragging red-necks than drugged out entrepreneurs) The signs indicate the it is all private land. They say things like "PRIVATE! KEEP THE HELL OUT! Trespassers will be violated" And if you saw *Deliverance* this can be quite intimidating. =:-D But in reality the road is open (in most cases) and the signs refer to the land the road passes through. When they are serious about a road being private there will be a gate capable of withstanding the charge of a Bull Discovery. Don't go there even if the gate is open; it may not be when you try to come back...been there, done that. Have fun and report back. Gerry *** Many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James ************************************************************** _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Gerry Mugele (Mugeleg@wellsfargo.com) _/ _/ Glen Ellen, California (415) 477-3952 _/ _/ "Gooey" '72 SIII 88 _/ _/ "Peat" '95 D90 SW (364/500) _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ************************************************************** ------------------------------------ From: Shannon Holland Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 09:40:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) >I agree, they should get hell for it. They are not servicing the cards >that way, they are just throwing parts at them. I wonder if anyone's ever looked at the total cost for fixing a problem this way? It may be cheaper to replace some part on the first or second time around but at some point it has to be more expensive than the shop time it would take to diagnose and fix the problem correctly. Shannon ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 09:55:11 PDT Subject: RE: Advice on off road trails On Fri, 16 Aug 96 09:37:00 PDT you wrote: >I don't think there are any problems with crops in that area. (More >knuckle-dragging red-necks than drugged out entrepreneurs) The signs >indicate the it is all private land. They say things like "PRIVATE! KEEP >THE HELL OUT! Trespassers will be violated" And if you saw *Deliverance* >this can be quite intimidating. =:-D But in reality the road is open >(in most cases) and the signs refer to the land the road passes through. > When they are serious about a road being private there will be a gate >capable of withstanding the charge of a Bull Discovery. Don't go there even >if the gate is open; it may not be when you try to come back...been there, >done that. I beg to differ. Humbolt has been one of the leading marijuana capitals in the U.S. for some time, but most of it has moved indoors. Those signs are for real and people have got shot up in that area for being on someone's property. I'll let you guys go offroad up there and take your chances! I their heyday, Humbolt police were make more $$$s than any other officer around, from being paid off by the growers. About 10 years ago, Humbolt had the largest argricultural crop in California, bigger than the grapes (for wine). When that much money is envolved, guns start coming into play. Alan DuBoff aland@ibm.net Moore 24 #77 - "Moorigami" ------------------------------------ From: John Brabyn Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: non-dealer Disco Mechanics in SF (was Sucky Service ) Jeff -- one I know of is Michael Green of West Coast British. I haven't actually had him do any work for me because he is too far away (Dublin). He has worked for Land Rover though and seems to know his way around these vehicles. Otherwise, I don't know of any. You are right that one would expect a crop of mechanics to be emerging as the Discos come out of warranty. So far though I havent' found any competent ones (I have found incompetent ones who claim to specialize in British and foreign cars). Let us know if you do! Cheers John On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, Jeff Smith wrote: > A bit off the subject, but I was wondering if anyone knows of a reputable > non-dealer Disco Mechanic in San Francisco. > > I would think that very soon, if not already, there would be a crop of new > independant Land Rover mechanics, that is mechanics that specialize in late > model Range Rovers, Defenders and Disco's. There will be alot of Disco's > out there whos warrantees have expired. I know I will be open to a > non-dealer alternative for a mechanic when mine expires. I feel lucky that > I found a good reasonable mechanic to work on our '72 250C mercedes. The > dealer will charge us $100. to open the hood. > > Jeff > > >It's probably less time consuming for a mechanic to replace an assembly than > >take it apart and replace what's really wrong. If he takes time out to do > >the repair, he doesn't get to other vehicles as quickly, and this might make > >for irate customers. Given the number or Rovers that are being sold versus > >the number of trained mechanics available... The same would hold true for > >computer repair. > > > >Cheers! > >John > > > > > >At 02:34 16.08.96 -0700, Nick C. Baggarly wrote: > >> > >>>One thing I don't like about this scenario is that it reminds me of > >>>IBM technical service engineers in the past, they just keep replacing > >>>parts at a whim, and eventually if you replace enough parts the > >>>problem will have gone away. I hate for that to always be the > >>>solution, since then you really don't get service, you almost get a > >>>dis-service in a way...:-/ Does that mean when you pay for the service > >>>rather than having LR foot the bill that you will have to replace the > >>>part, since that will be the solution and you should be happy with > >>>that > >> > >>I feel that there is something really wrong with the way some places do > >>business today. Having a problem where the dealer just throws parts at it > >>is just plain irresponsible service practice. It's the same with the old > >DEC service > >>folks. During a typical service call they would replace 50% of the parts in > >our mainframes. > >>But that was only allowed because 1. DEC was paying for it, and 2. The > >mainframe was > >>owned by an aerospace corp; A customer who would never complain about such > >lazy service > >>policies. I was just a kid then but recall feeling uneasy about the way > >they repaired things. > >>Now I call BS on this every chance I get because, even if it's in your > >favor this time, > >>the bottom line is that they are not intelligently diagnosing and repairing > >your problem > >>which is what you're paying them to do. Why is this tolerated? I suppose > >it's because > >>the customer usually makes out well as they receive newer parts. It can > >also be faster, > >>requires less thought, and seems easier. And perhaps there's a lack of > >training or control > >>from upper management to prevent this practice. Philosophically it's wrong > >and doesn't > >>make for good business. Give 'em hell. > >> > >> > >> _______ > >>'64 IIa /_____/_| | '89 Range Rover | nick@ablecom.net > >>Dormobile |__|_|\_\__ | '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) | 1-(408) 980-3649 > >> [_~\_|__.-.; | '64 Dormobile | 1308771@skymail.com > >> (0) (0)" | '66 Dormobile (Assembled!!) | Los Gatos, Calif. > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 10:28:50 PDT Subject: Mail Ben- Is there a way for you to look and see why I'm not getting mail? thanks, Kelly Minnick ------------------------------------ From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:49:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Strike one You wrote: > >Well, the insurance guy's story is that I was pulling >out in front of this guy and he couldn't stop in time. What gives here? >Try to be nice and see what happens? Well, being a mechanical engineer, it >shouldn't be too hard to prove where the cars were by how the cars are hit! >Later, > >Kelly Minnick > I'll bet the agent will accept your estimate of the angle but shift the point into the intersection - after all no one makes left hand turns into the wrong lane :). I would point out that if the insurance agent is saying this, then that is what his insured said in his statement, so it's not just the insurance company you shouldn't trust. If the insured made a true statement and the agent is claiming otherwise then he is in serious legal trouble - I'd see if you can have your insurance company get a copy of the oppossing claim if I were you just to check. I've had this kind of crap before from insurance agents - it seems to be their job. I was hit from the rear behind from someone trying to pass on the inside when I was pulling over to park and they claimed I was at fault because this was a legal maneouver - yeah - right - that's an interesting reading of the vehicle code. (I took photos to submit with my claim and measured the skid marks this bimbo left which seemed to help - they got their ass whupped in arbitration). However, I've learned from this: 1. Always carry a disposable camera. 2. Always call the police even if they won't come (Personally I'd be tempted to say you're not sure but you think your neck is stiff :) ). 3. If at all possible, get at least one witness. 4. Never, Ever, Ever, trust the other driver. Even if they are decent, their insurance company is NOT, - Ever, - Period. Chances are not even your own insurance company (particularly AAA) will stand up for you. They seem to benefit from a split in the settlement and get the chance to increase your rates and hence their income. cheers and good luck, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:08:24 -0700 Subject: Painting Prep. Observations (Goldenrod?) Just thought I'd pass on some observations from my experience in prepping Mathilda (SIIA 109 SW) for painting. Hope these are of interest/use to someone. The observations are on treating the aluminium prior to application of primer. I used the Dupont 225 (step A)/226 (step B) products which are designed to chemically clean then etch and increase corrosion resistance on aluminum, respectively. On the first application to metal stripped using aircraft stripper and then left sitting for a few weeks, the products did not work particularly well. I also discovered that although the vehicle was "pre-stripped" there were random splotches of clear coat (or ?) on so I ran a "plastic" drill operated stripping disk over the entire body prior to prepping. Opening up the surface like this had a dramatic improvement and I'd recommend it. The second stage took quite well and left the surface with the characteristic golden tinge. The most important observation is with regards to galvanized trim. It is critical when using these products that all trim be masked off or it will be stained. The few spots where this occurred I was able to rub out with a damp rag a minute or so after completing application. Keep a running hose handy for rapid washdowns. I'd add that you should immediately remove the masking after treatment because inevitable with the amount of fluid involved some gets under the tape. Hose the entire vehicle down for a few minutes. Any masking left on will possibly trap the treatment fluids and corrode the trim. Be prepared to do a lot of masking. To do a 109 took 1 bottle (just less than a litre) of 225 and just under 4 bottles of 226. Now Mathilda has a nice golden sheen and is looking forward to a self-etching primer and fill primer application. cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:00:08 -0700 Subject: Changing lock barrels I currently have the latch from the upper tailgate off while the upper tailgate is getting painted. I would like to change the lock. I have a new barrel but no idea of how to further disassemble the rear latch to take the lock assy out. I have never swaped out a lock before. Can anyone talk me through this? TeriAnn twakeman@scruznet.com ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:15:11 -0700 Subject: RE: Advice on off road trails Alan said: >I their heyday, Humbolt police were make more $$$s than any other >officer around, from being paid off by the growers. About 10 years >ago, Humbolt had the largest argricultural crop in California, bigger >than the grapes (for wine). When that much money is envolved, guns >start coming into play. Hmmm, I wondered how my younger brother (a Humboldt County Deputy Sherrif) had done so well... Granny ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:34:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Changing lock barrels >I currently have the latch from the upper tailgate off while the upper >tailgate is getting painted. > >I would like to change the lock. I have a new barrel but no idea of how to >further disassemble the rear latch to take the lock assy out. I have never >swaped out a lock before. > >Can anyone talk me through this? > >TeriAnn Whoever does, please do it on the list as I've got to do this too. The P.O. of the Snark (Series III 88) put a new latch assembly on the driver's door and had the lock out of the old latch but still inside a sleeve. I haven't been able to figure out how to get the cylinder out of the sleeve, even with the key in and turned. Thanks, Granny ------------------------------------ From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:21:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) >It's probably less time consuming for a mechanic to replace an assembly than >take it apart and replace what's really wrong. If he takes time out to do >the repair, he doesn't get to other vehicles as quickly, and this might make >for irate customers. Given the number or Rovers that are being sold versus >the number of trained mechanics available... The same would hold true for >computer repair. > >Cheers! >John > > >At 02:34 16.08.96 -0700, Nick C. Baggarly wrote: >> >>>One thing I don't like about this scenario is that it reminds me of >>>IBM technical service engineers in the past, they just keep replacing >>>parts at a whim, and eventually if you replace enough parts the >>>problem will have gone away. I hate for that to always be the >>>solution, since then you really don't get service, you almost get a >>>dis-service in a way...:-/ Having been an IBM service rep for 31 years, and a specialist for at least 10 of the years, I will defend the practice of replacing a lot of parts rather than analyze the problem. The main concept of that repair method was to get the computer back up as soon as possible and hopefully it stayed up. As little down time as possible for the user. In the case of newish/current/expensive parts and also known troublesome parts, they would go back to the plant for analysis and testing and in some cases reconditioned for reuse if the failure could be pinpointed and fixed. An intermittant failure that couldn't be guaranteed fixed would get scrapped. If there is only one computer running for the whole business,which may be a bank, hospital,ATM, insurance agent,etc. Then the computer down may be holding up everything including payroll.Getting it up immediately is the only priority. When the problem went beyond the first shot then the specialist would be called in for the further analyzing, and fixing. Even before I was a specialist, I wanted to know what caused the failure in order to feel good about the fix, But quite often the failure only occurred once a day, or week. So then the training would allow you to make an educated guess. In the case of an IBM mainframe, it calls home when it detects a problem then the local service rep gets a service call with a list of the parts to replace. If he does otherwise, he better have a GOOD explanation when it fails again. And as in Gerry's fuel pump, there is a definite list of parts to fix the problem. Unless there is a problem part that will fail even if new. Then while it's failing I would perform certain measurements to prove which part failed. Bob Bernard Retired IBM Tech Support. ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:56:42 +0000 Subject: Re: Strike one ( a lesson in insurance! ) > Like a nice guy, I didn't call > the police (saving him a ticket) and let him decide wether to use his > insurance or not. Well, the insurance guy's story is that I was pulling > out in front of this guy and he couldn't stop in time. begin diatribe I once had a minor fender incedence ( cracked side mirror on other vehicle, penny sized dent on myne ( not the LR ) ). We decided between us to skip the police and settle it ourselves. I was on my way to Europe ( litterally! picking up rush passport, and then to airport ) I got back two weeks later and.....! They both had major neck injuries! there vehicle now had over $2000 worth of damage!!!!!!! Whatever country they were from had taught them how to use the system effectively!!!!!! I denide it all but it was fruitless ( I didn't deny the minor incedent... just the lies ) My insurance company was interested in settling not fighting, the state insurance board was interested but by the time we could do something my insurance company had settled with them to the tune of $7000 or so for EACH person in the vehicle ( 2 ) and $3000 for what was a cracked side view mirror. They used different pictures of there vehicle to file the claim ( actually it wasn't even there vehicle as the pictures clearly showed a turbo chrysler mini van and they had a low end stripped version..... This cost me the loss of that insurance company... ( they booted me 3 months later at renewal time!!!!! ) And I had to go with one of those rip-off carriers and pay $1200 every 6 months as a premium!!!!!! SO THE MORAL IS: Always call the police! Carry a disposable camera in your vehicle to document a situation...... Sad to say.... but .... don't trust people in this situaton, all it takes is a dim IQ, a late night TV comercial from joe shiester the insurance maven and voila, a scratch on a vehicle is now a 4 alarm emergency! end diatribe! Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:12:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Disco back > >also !!!!!!!!!!! Somebody ( I think the detailers ) drove the vehicle > >into something ... IE: they mashed the top of my rack, bent the lips > >on the roof, tried to put it back together, hoping I wouldn't > >notice!!! > Tom, absolutely ABSOLUTELY tell them as soon as possible. Talk to the > service guy you talked to, and make sure to write everything down because > even if it's burned in your memory now, things can get confusing a few days > from now. Make sure to get any commitment or solution declared in writing. > By my experience, good thing it happened at LRSJ and not deceitful > RAB Motors. > > - Scott > Spent all morning dealing with the particulars! If I haven't said this before directly... I wil say it now! I like SJLR they do good enough work and try to get it right! ..... ect IE: enough with dealer bashing! Lets fix problems not create them! It turns out the detailers ( as suspected ) tried to shorten the Disco by compressing it into a smaller amount of volume! IE: there was green paint on my top lights and stuff, and an interesting crack and imprint on there detailing bay ... hmmm.... They fessed up ( In fact the manager did not know about it... he wrote up a letter of Disco whakage! and assumed responsiblity ect... ) I now have to get an estimate and decide how ( what ) to repair! The LR expedition rack comes to mind but.... I needed the 1/2 rack to fit my car top tent simultaneously..... My rack weighs ~~~30-40lbs... the LR expedition rack weighs 110lbs!!! I could go to a Safari Gaurd semi custom, or saftey devices ( that new sexy one! ) I designed myne for specific functionallity: I feel it met that role very well... I wonder about the other solutions and my needs.... any comments??? well, off to go scrape the old rack off the roof! Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:11:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Changing lock barrels >I currently have the latch from the upper tailgate off while the upper >tailgate is getting painted. > >I would like to change the lock. I have a new barrel but no idea of how to >further disassemble the rear latch to take the lock assy out. I have never >swaped out a lock before. > >Can anyone talk me through this? > >TeriAnn > >twakeman@scruznet.com > > Hi TeriAnn and Granny, I have never removed a tumbler, so I just looked in the shop manual and the Haynes but there is no help.That must be why you're asking! So I took a door lock that was waiting for this to happen over to the workbench. On the end opposite from the key slot is a thing shaped like a fat "J" that the lock turns. The tailgate lock should have something similar on it. This fat J has a tiny pin through it, about 3/32" diameter. I took a pin punch 1/16" diameter tip from my trusty IBM tool kit and firmly/gently hammered (this punch would break very easily) and drove the pin out. then the fat J came off and the tumbler pushed right out the other end. I didn't even have the key in it Note the direction that this Fat J latch is installed so you don't put it on backwards. Good luck, Bob B ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 14:23:02 PDT Subject: RE: Advice on off road trails On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:15:11 -0700 you wrote: >>I their heyday, Humbolt police were make more $$$s than any other >>officer around, from being paid off by the growers. About 10 years >>ago, Humbolt had the largest argricultural crop in California, bigger >>than the grapes (for wine). When that much money is envolved, guns >>start coming into play. > >Hmmm, I wondered how my younger brother (a Humboldt County Deputy Sherrif) >had done so well... A high school friend of mine has about 50 acres of land or so in Humbolt, he's the one who explained that to me. My understanding is that all the growers used to take care of the law enforcement, but the feds were coming down on them. They used to have a festival at harvest time and that is when most of the growers would pay off the local authorities... My friend has since become a legitimate citizen in recent years, but that there is still a lot of growing going on up there, just that it is mostly done indoors. 10-15 years ago it was done all outdoors. With this same guy's brother, when I was a kid in high school we were looking for surfing along the coast and ended up at Shelter Cove (there is a sunken ship there, or at least used to be, and it was a drive on about 25 miles of hair pin turns to get to the coast from the highway. There is PLENTY of great offroading around that area...that was in the mid 70s, I presume before the growing phoenomina happened in that area... California trivia for 'ya...I'm a native, something there just aren't too many of these days...and damn proud of it also...yeah, some of the easterners don't like are kick back attitude, our lifestyles, our slang we use, etc...but we sure started one heck of a trend with our potent Humbolt buds...it's our right to burn 'em! or at least a citation for up to an ounce of buds...(thats a heck of a lot of bud to carry around...;-) Word of caution, tread lightly in Humbolt County when your offroading...money and illegal business cause many people to think irrational and it would be stupid to get shot because some paranoid grower thought you were out to get him... Alan DuBoff aland@ibm.net Moorigami, Moore 24 #77 ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:31:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Disco back > My rack weighs ~~~30-40lbs... errr.... well after taking it off the roof maybe its more like 50+ lbs :) Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 14:30:23 PDT Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:21:28 -0700 you wrote: >Having been an IBM service rep for 31 years, and a specialist for at least >10 of the years, Bob, I touched a soft spot there, huh ? We're not talking about a mainframe that keeps the bank payroll together here, we're talking about LRs! I was just relating how that scenario fits with the 'old' IBM tech support, which has since changed to meet the industry challenges. >The main concept of that repair method was to get the computer back up as >soon as possible and hopefully it stayed up. >As little down time as possible for the user. But this doesn't seem to make sense for a 'rover, do we need to replace every part that might be a potential problem and out our expense ? It doesn't make sense. Does it make it right for LR to do it on their dime ? I think it probably does, but it just shows poor diagnosis on the mechanics part (and sometimes it's rightfully so). Alan DuBoff - OS/2 Advisor Bunker Hill Software aland@ibm.net ------------------------------------ From: "Kerner, R." Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 14:27:00 PDT Subject: Sorry if this is a repost, but my gateway has been acting up..... Just Back from vacation and I saw this one from Granny and had to throw in my two cents.... I have a 1969 trail 70 I received for Christmas many many many years ago. I knew they were hard to come by because while driving it around school at UCLA I had many people offer me money or ask if I'd ever sell it. They are great bikes. They never die...Mine is sitting in my parents garage right now, but will make it up to my place in Davis some time. I swear I saw a brand new one about 5 years ago in a Honda dealer. It was identical to mine, except it had street tires and turn signals. -Rob kerner@vegmail.ucdavis.edu ---------- From: bens[SMTP:bens@ridgecrest.ca.us] Sent: August 13, 1996 1:40 PM To: mendo_recce Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) Gerry, Thanks for sharing all this with us. I hope this JLH not-a-fieldguide idea will bare froot. After all, I aspire to eventually acquire one of these complicated coilers myself. And probably a well-used one at that. >Where do we go from here? I guess the bottom line for me is that I'd better >be damn careful when I'm out by myself chasing birds and either learn to >live with the risk or always have a safety net of some sort. I think that >implies more planning ahead than I can usually manage. I'll just hafta go >out with others to minimize the risk. That's excellent advice, of course. Another thought I've long had is to carry a very small off-road motorcycle across the rear of your beast. For many years I had my eye to acquire a Honda Trail 70 for just that reason. A sooper-dooper spare tyre, if you will. The Trail 70 because I figured it to be just about the biggest bike that would more or less fit across the back without overhanging the sides significantly. But Trail 70s are very hard to come by (out of production for many years) and even those would add an awful lot of extra weight to the back. Ah, well... Granny ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:47:38 +0000 Subject: bike riding Don, ( any others interested ) Do you want to do the bike riding thing we were talking about the other day? Rick Larson is interested also ( Scott how about you, ya lazy bugger! ) I'm thinking stevens canyon road thru grizzly flats to skyline or a trail at los gatos that rick knows.... maybe tommorrow morning or sunday ( not to early... not to late ~ 10 am.... ). Neither trail trail is for those weak at the lungs/legs! call me (408) 868-9146... I will in and out thru-out the day ans in this evening ( after 8-9 ) Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:06:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Strike one ( a lesson in insurance! ) Tom said: >I once had a minor fender incedence ( cracked side mirror on other >vehicle, penny sized dent on myne ( not the LR ) ). We decided >between us to skip the police and settle it ourselves. I was on my >way to Europe ( litterally! picking up rush passport, and then to >airport ) I got back two weeks later and.....! Dang, you had to remind me! I'd plumb forgotten but Melanie (SWMBO) recently had a similar one. She was at a stop light and casually rolled into the vehicle in front of her and gave its bumper a very light tap. Driver acted fairly non-combative about it. No cops; Melanie gave him the name of our insurance. Big mistake! No damage of any kind occurred except for a possible small scratch on the rear bumper facing of the car she hit (both cars had rubber-faced bumpers after all!). Upshot was that the cretin she hit claimed all sorts of damage to himself and also claimed not to have been driving but rather to have been the passenger (no license?). Very fishy deal. Melanie raised hell, denied everything, and our insurance company believed her, apparently, but paid a big settlement anyway. What's to be done? Grrrrrranny ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:04:53 -0400 Subject: BRITPAC back on line I've taken a few vacation days with my wife, and after the power shutdown and the AOL collapse, we're finally working through the E-mail. If you have a question pending, please be patient. If you can't wait, please call us on our 800 line (800 554 4133) for more immediate service. For those wondering about Hippo and the Portland meet, I intend to drive her for the first time this weekend. I'll let you know! (It'll be close...) Steve ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:21:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Changing lock barrels Bob does surgery on a Roverlock: >So I took a door lock that was waiting for this to happen over to the >workbench. On the end opposite from the key slot is a thing shaped like a >fat "J" that the lock turns. The tailgate lock should have something similar >on it. > >This fat J has a tiny pin through it, about 3/32" diameter. >I took a pin punch 1/16" diameter tip from my trusty IBM tool kit and >firmly/gently hammered (this punch would break very easily) and drove the >pin out. then the fat J came off and the tumbler pushed right out the other >end. I didn't even have the key in it Note the direction that this Fat J >latch is installed so you don't put it on backwards. Ah, yes, but that doesn't sound like it came from an anti-burst lock which, of course, mine are. Probably will work for TeriAnn's though. Funny thing about mine is that I've done it before. My first '70 IIA, with antiburst locks, had had new locks and so each door had a different key. A bloody nuisance! So I took them all apart and re-keyed them. They were wafer-tumbler type and had a limited variety of different tumbler lengths. Turned out that I could re-arrange the wafers in two to match the one and thus keyed them all the same. But I'm danged if I can remember how I got the cylinders out! My Series III locks may be different from those on that late IIA but I don't think so. Thanks, Gran ------------------------------------ From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:29:37 -0800 Subject: RE: Advice on off road trails I don't think the same degree of argricultural crop occurs in Del Norte county? Also I might get some idea of potential risk from the forest guy I chatted with. >On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:15:11 -0700 you wrote: > >>>I their heyday, Humbolt police were make more $$$s than any other >>>officer around, from being paid off by the growers. About 10 years >>>ago, Humbolt had the largest argricultural crop in California, bigger >>>than the grapes (for wine). When that much money is envolved, guns >>>start coming into play. >> Regards, Jeff Smith. S.E. phone: (415) 543-8651 fax: (415) 543-8679 email: smthengr@sirius.com Smith Engineering 27 South Park San Francisco, CA 94107 ------------------------------------ From: BRITPAC@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:29:57 -0400 Subject: Land Rover Gear catalog We have copies of these to distribute, and we do carry the t-shirts (and a few other items). We will order anything else for you (LRG is a little slow on some items). Seems like our prices are often better than the dealer, but we will sell the stuff at the catalog list price. Also, for those of you who asked, my Dad is out of the hospital (a second stroke, but this time he was in before it hit and on meds. He's on new meds and doing OK). Steve/BRITPAC ------------------------------------ From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:26:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Painting Prep. Observations (Goldenrod?) You wrote: > >You mention an "aircraft stripper". Would you hae a product name and >possible source. Jasco - ordinary paint/epoxy remover - apparently identical to "aircraft stripper" available at some auto (or aircraft :) ) paint supply stores (aka "jobbers"). I'll bet `Crappy Tire' sells it or an equivalent :) I've used it quite successfully. Buy goggles and long sleeve heavy duty gloves; this stuff is caustic! Apply it with a cheep articial brush and encourage the stripper to come off with a stiff brush. Keep it away from anything you don't want destroyed. Ideally the bodywork would be separate from any other part of the vehicle before you work on it. I'd definitely not use this stuff inside an engine bay. >My beast has three coats of paint in some spots. The original yellow put on >for Shell Oil, a dark green that looks like it may have been put on with a >brush, and a hideous beige done in exterior house paint! She's a horrible >looking mess inside and out and I'd like to get it all back down to the bare >aluminum. > > Rick Grant You'll probably need several coats of stripper. You'll probably find that the stripper takes off the paint by layer. It definitely tended to do this on mine. The primer took one to two applications to get off. Use of aircraft stripper helps minimize damage/wear on the panels from physical stripping and makes any required "brushing" quite easy. cheers, Jeremy P.S. Which quadrant of Calgary are you in? I assume you offroad up in the foothills. ------------------------------------ From: jory bell Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:26:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Europarts experience, tune up items I am sorry to hear that people are still ordering from Europarts after their original deceptive (and poorly constructed) SPAM/junk mail to the rover mailing lists (in which someone affiliated with Europarts posed as a random satisfied customer and praised their awesome rates, service, etc...) Thy also suggested (in a rather mysterious manner) that they had been in the US rover parts for years without offering any documentation (and noone had heard of them until their junk mailing). Oh yeah, who can forget their shoddily executed web pages which blithely stole (copyrighted) graphics and copy from other land rover sites... Hearing about people buying from them reinforces marketers instincts that breaking all the rules (netiquette among them will ultimately gain them business instead of maing them the pariahs (sp?) they deserve to become. -jory >barnett childress wrote: >> >> Scott, >> I had ordered rear inward facing bench seats from Europarts several months >> ago after Mohammed assured me that he could get "genuine factory LR seats" >> like I specifically asked for. However after several weeks of waiting, > >> I think Mohammed and Europarts are trustworthy but VERY disorganized and >> hard to do business with. But if you're willing to put up with all of that >> he does have some of the lowest prices. > > >I ordered several mats and a rear load protector from Europarts when they >had the April (?) 7% internet order >special. The load protector didn't work because LR changed the design so >it will only work with bench seats, >not the jump seats. (I learned this from someone on the CSO list in Great >Britain who had the same problem.) >Europarts was quite late in getting the order but was always cordial on >the phone and did take it back when I >explained the load protector wouldn't work. Unfortunately I never got the >7% discount despite requesting it >several times (and receiving promises that it would be given - I suppose I >could have complained to my credit >card company but he seems like such a nice person I didn't feel like >bothering with it) and I was also out of >$30+ for the shipping (to me) of the load space protector. > >FHY ------------------------------------ From: Don MacDonald Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:27:25 -0700 Subject: I'm Back Hello all, I'm Back So I drove across Canada (~10,000km round trip) In a IIA 88" and I didn't have a major breakdown. :) The Overdrive was blowing oil but was always over filled, which makes me think that the transfer case (which was low) is draining into the overdrive. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The points fried out on me and I was lucky to have an extra set. I will always carry an extra set now!! Damage: #1. OOOps! I didn't see that tree that I backed into. Lucky the frame took the damage not the body!! #2. Bent fender on tree root. The character just keeps building!! Later, DonI P.S. Re-subscribe me to the mendo please!! ------------------------------------ From: Kelly Minnick Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 18:30:52 PDT Subject: Badge Jeremy- Did you ever finish the Lazy Bugger badges? If so, I never got mine... Kelly Minnick 605 Sherwood CT Ridgecrest, CA 93555 Thanks,\ ------------------------------------ From: Benjamin Allan Smith Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:50:13 -0700 Subject: Re: socket wrench question In message <199608141934.MAA03640@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write: > There are a few Whitworth sizes on the Rover, > which can usually be removed using something in the tool-box(usually > scruffing the nut corners pretty bad after a while) I don't recall which > components use whitworth besides the geearbox if I recall correctly ( Ben > or Bob?) Off hand I've found that English sizes fit almost everything (I use Craftsman 6 point sockets). From memory most of the SIIi gearbox is whitworth as is the drainplug on the SIII radiator. The new tranny and engine mounts have 17mm nuts. I seem to recall that the ubolts also are not a standard size. > I have seen the sockets shatter and split apart. on the > other hand I have split sockets from regular use(abuse) of the breaker bar. And then there was the time that Dad and I broke a Craftsman 1/2" drive breakerbar. Someone with an air tool put on the lugnuts on my parent's minivan a wee bit too tight. They didn't come off even when we used a 4 foot pipe on on the breaker bar. We did twist off the male part of the breaker- bar (which Sears replaced). The Dad yelled a the mechanic a bit and made him loosen the lugnuts. I think that was the only time that Dad let a mechanic touch one of our cars. Ben ------------------------------------ From: Benjamin Allan Smith Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:53:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Mendo business cards In message <199608142312.QAA18369@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write: > I want mendo_recce business-sized cards to give out to the uinitiated when > I actually get outside and meet new people. I guess something like Ben's > cards. This would beat hunting for paper and pen when you're 60 miles the That is exactly why I had them made up. Besides sometimes even I can't read my own handwriting. Ben ------------------------------------ From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:00:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) >On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:21:28 -0700 you wrote: > >>Having been an IBM service rep for 31 years, and a specialist for at least >>10 of the years, > >Bob, > >I touched a soft spot there, huh ? > >We're not talking about a mainframe that keeps the bank payroll >together here, we're talking about LRs! > >I was just relating how that scenario fits with the 'old' IBM tech >support, which has since changed to meet the industry challenges. > >>The main concept of that repair method was to get the computer back up as >>soon as possible and hopefully it stayed up. >>As little down time as possible for the user. > >But this doesn't seem to make sense for a 'rover, do we need to >replace every part that might be a potential problem and out our >expense ? It doesn't make sense. Does it make it right for LR to do it >on their dime ? I think it probably does, but it just shows poor >diagnosis on the mechanics part (and sometimes it's rightfully so). > >Alan DuBoff - OS/2 Advisor >Bunker Hill Software >aland@ibm.net > Oh yeah, I agree with you totally, and I agree with the sometimes perception of IBM repair service that's why I tried to explain a bit of it. And yes sometimes we would back up and aim a shotgun at the computer.(Replace everything in sight). But the purpose was to get it up and sometimes the diagnostic just couldn't help. I would never leave an intermittant problem without replacing something. Bob ------------------------------------ From: Benjamin Allan Smith Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:25:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Mendo business cards In message <199608150652.XAA16272@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write: > I haven't seen Ben's card but I think you have to be careful when > approaching people. I remember approaching someone with a brand new > D90SW to tell him about one of the Not-A-Trip and, by his response to me, > thinking how this feels no unlike when someone at the airport (with > ostensible ties to some religious organization) tries to get my > attention. After being at some of the big meets I realized that it would be easier to have the information written down than you find a pen and paper. Then Dad was unemployed and printing his own cards on the lazer printer. So he whipped up a graphic of my LR. The card has a picture of a SIII with roof rack in the upper left corner. In the middle is my name and under that is "1972 SIII 88 SW" At the bottom is email address, phone number and snail mail address. I had these out when people express interest in contacting me at a later date. Or if some asks at an event to joint mendo, I hand them a card and ask them to email me. Ben ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 19:38:22 PDT Subject: Re: Sucky Service (was: Disco back) On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:00:56 -0700 you wrote: >Oh yeah, >I agree with you totally, and I agree with the sometimes perception of IBM >repair service that's why I tried to explain a bit of it. I know IBM gets ragg'd on a lot. I have worked with them (never for them actually) for my entire computer career, either contracting with them or working/contracting for companies that were working on IBM projects. Now if we could get a service contract on your 'rovers that would require the downtime to be less than xxxxx time, like the IBM maintnance contracts work, we might need to resort to their methods. >And yes sometimes we would back up and aim a shotgun at the >computer.(Replace everything in sight). See, with a PC you can just throw the box out the window and get another one...;-) (don't I wish it was that easy). >But the purpose was to get it up and >sometimes the diagnostic just couldn't help. >I would never leave an intermittant problem without replacing something. Understood, and I guess LR does it for the same reason, just that it gives a bad impression of diagnostics. Intermittant problems are the worst, no question, and I see quite a few of them on LR Discos and 'Fenders. It makes me believe that the new 'rovers are not built to the same quality standards as the older ones are. I realize with a 'rover I will have to pay more for some work and pay more for some parts, that will be a part of these vehicles. But it seems ridiculous to have an over abundance of problems happen... Look at Tom's Disco, he had a list of twenty something items for LR to fix. That is a bit much for a vehicle as new as his is...doncha think ? I would also like to add that as Tom mentioned, I'm not un-satisfied with the service I have received I suppose, although I wasn't real happy when I first brought my RR back from there...*BUT*, they have been very helpful to me and Dave in parts was the person the convinced me to start working on it myself. He told me a story about a guy that drove in to get his brakes done (needed both pads and disks) and LRofSJ couldn't do the work. So the guy borrowed a jack from them and put the disks and pads on right out by the bays at LRofSJ, told Dave he "had to have the new ones now, can't wait" All the people at LRofSJ are great, very friendly, and helpful. Quality control or lack of it is surely a much bigger headache for them than it is us, they have to hear us screaming/explaining it to them most of the time. Alan DuBoff aland@ibm.net Moore 24 #77 - "Moorigami" ------------------------------------ End of Digest