From: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: Digest for mendo_recce: 8/13/1996 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Reply-To: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 23:08:04 PDT Subject: Re: LRofSJ MechanoGeek On Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:59:26 -0700 you wrote: > That sounds good to me, too. Especially if some of it gets back to >them. Maybe I've been snowed, but I think they really want to be a good >dealership. They've followed up with me each time I've had my Disco in >there...so why not? Chris, I also believe they want to be a good dealership and they have been very honest in admiting that their pricing is not "reasonable". But LRofSJ has to go by the 'rover book so to speak... There just isn't enough mechanics around it seems, they are busy all the time at LRofSJ... Alan DuBoff aland@ibm.net Moore 24 #77 - "Moorigami" ------------------------------------ From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:23:47 -0700 Subject: Re: PNWTTC (part 2) Addendum You wrote: snip of good summary >HEAD OUT >We snapped a team photo and we were off. Ahem... not so quick. :) We lined up for Stephanie to take a photo. One of the marshalls (?) - a jeeper- standing next to her told us to say "jeep" for the photo - we declined but Stephanie promptly said "sh.t". Actually this was in response to the camera not working but the timing was appropriate :) We posed for a second attempt and the fellow repeated his request to "say Jeep"; Stephanie obliged with a second "sh.t". Same cause... Eventually the fellow gave up, Stephanie's camera worked and we began our adventure. >THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL snip > We left >the root ball where we found it (having only been able to tip it up) and >continued on. > >Leaving the trail we took a left and soon found that we had already >mis-interpreted the directions. After about 10 minutes of scouting >and confusion we decided to retrace our steps to the root wad hill. The audience might remember that at this point we were expecting signs of the next team sent out since the interval between teams was about ten minutes. We were begining to think everyone was passing us up. But lo and behold... >At the top of the root wad hill we saw the 2 door Range Rover. (snip)This >thing was beat-up! Another aside - this is the vehicle giving birth to the rumors that Doug Shipman's vehicles don't have a single straight body panel - this RR used to be his. snip >as Jeremy and Eric left the >bloody scene the line of Jeeps and Land Cruisers was getting larger and >more testy. A CJ-5 was about to tow the wad out with horsepower, piss >and vinegar. Our recce revealed that our blundering was due to mistaking a right bearing downslope for a right turn on the instructions. This was discovered in the process of walking back among the backed up teams. >BIG RED >On the way out we noticed that the team immediately behind us was a >Big Red full sized Ford Bronco, obviously lifted and with BIG tiress. His >partner was a CJ-5 similarly modified.....and they were really irked >at the Range Rover teams root incident and now traction problems - >so they just wailed up the hill using speed and horsepower. Although they managed to bog themselves down pretty deep in spots. In fact, they were so intent on power and mud that I believe they missed the token bucket that Eric spotted. snip >The trail looped back around to the bottom of the mud hill, where the >marshall was standing. Morgan got mixed up and missed a crucial left >turn. Sampson followed, and the Big Red Bronco made the designated left. >Big Red's partner was way behind and so we were able to back up and >take the turn before the CJ could catch up. We travelled like this for >awhile, up a steep and rocky trail. snip >Big Red's problem was only one copy of course instructions was given and >because the CJ was driving slower than us, they could get separated. A >couple of tricky sections came up, with slippery wet boulders. Big >Red had some problems, but managed to horsepower out of them. We used >Spot's ARB lockers in the appropriate places and when Sampson got in >trouble a quick tug always kept the pace moving. Unfortunately for Big Red's partner (the CJ) at the worst part of this trail where winching was required, Big Red had zoomed on ahead and left him without a buddy to help him out. Although he eventually got himself out, the last I saw of this CJ that day was him in my rear view mirror stuck on the slope while his partner disappeared into the trees up the hill. Ah, teamwork and the competitive spirit :) Good work on the tales of the trip Morgan, keep it coming! cheers, Jeremy ------------------------------------ From: "Nick C. Baggarly" Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Cooking with Rover (AKA: Save the Liver) >BTW: I tested Bob Peterson's Rover burrito recipe this weekend >on the Los Padres Forrest "roads." Escoffier! I want to try >grilling some steaks on the maifold next time... hell, the grill- >groves are already there! "Rover Rib-eyes" comming up :)' Can someone please share an account of Bob Peterson's burrito cook feast and any other LR engine compartment recipes?. I once heard of a lady who cooked a roast on the dashboard of her car (parked in the hot sun while she was at work). I'd like to have a hot meal simmering on the way up to Portland. _______ '64 IIa /_____/_| | '89 Range Rover | nick@ablecom.net Dormobile |__|_|\_\__ | '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) | 1-(408) 980-3649 [_~\_|__.-.; | '64 Dormobile | 1308771@skymail.com (0) (0)" | '66 Dormobile (Assembled!!) | Los Gatos, Calif. ------------------------------------ From: "Lee Zeltzer (ISD)" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 07:12:50 -0700 Subject: RE: LRofSJ MechanoGeek The more the merrier! We might actually learn from dealer service guys! ---------- From: Alan DuBoff[SMTP:aland@ibm.net] Sent: Monday, August 12, 1996 7:00 PM To: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: LRofSJ MechanoGeek On Mon, 12 Aug 96 10:45:49 PDT you wrote: >Does anyone have any problem with having a dealer service guy on our Mendo >net? Would his presence inspire or constrict the free expression of >opinions, particularly about SJLR? Is this even an issue? Are there >already service guys on our net? I think this would be great. I know I'm certainly not ashamed of anything I have said about LRofSJ and it wouldn't quiet me up if someone from there was on this list. It would be great to be able to pick his brain when needed. Alan DuBoff aland@ibm.net Moore 24 #77 - "Moorigami" ------------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Valve Cover Racing re: valve cover racing > Honda will count as a British car valve cover (doesn=EDt Honda still own p= art > of Rover??) Owen still has this thing hanging in his garage in the Santa C= ruz > mountains. It will be great if "team mendo" can have another good showing= in > Land Rover related competition in the Pacific Northwest. > > Kevin Kelly The rules say British only. Would a cover from a Sunbeam Tiger qualify (british car, ford engine as stock from the factory) ? I don't know. There are by the way, 2 classes: stock, the cover has to be able to be used on a car and modified, whereby I think anything goes, except for no wider than ?? (i forget) no longer than 3 feet (I think) and no heavier than 10 lbs. hmm...where can I get one of those jet assisted take off units? cheers, John F. Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Cell Bio. and Hum. Anat. FAX me 916-752-8520 (ask first) University of California at Davis Davis, CA 95616 Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:37:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooking with Rover (AKA: Save the Liver) >>BTW: I tested Bob Peterson's Rover burrito recipe this weekend >>on the Los Padres Forrest "roads." Escoffier! I want to try >>grilling some steaks on the maifold next time... hell, the grill- >>groves are already there! "Rover Rib-eyes" comming up :)' > >Can someone please share an account of Bob Peterson's burrito cook >feast and any other LR engine compartment recipes?. I once heard of >a lady who cooked a roast on the dashboard of her car (parked in the >hot sun while she was at work). I'd like to have a hot meal simmering >on the way up to Portland. Nick, Mike Slade talked Bob out of one of his burritos and we cooked it in Mike's engine compartment. It was your basic supermarket frozen burrito (but thawed by then), placed in an oven-proof plastic bag, closed up with a zip-tie (standard stuff available in the supermarket). Bob thought that lying right on the manifold might prove a bit much for the plastic bag so we suspended it from (I think it was) the choke cable so that it hung next to the valve cover on the sparking plug side of the cylinder head. It was ready in less than an hour. If you want to really get into this you need to get the Roadkill Cookbook and Manifold Destiny. Have fun! Granny ------------------------------------ From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:36:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Valve Cover Racing >re: valve cover racing >> Honda will count as a British car valve cover (doesn=EDt Honda still own p= >art > >> >> Kevin Kelly > > >The rules say British only. Would a cover from a Sunbeam Tiger qualify >(british car, ford engine as stock from the factory) ? I don't know. >There are by the way, 2 classes: stock, the cover has to be able to be >used on a car and modified, whereby I think anything goes, except for no >wider than ?? (i forget) no longer than 3 feet (I think) and no heavier >than 10 lbs. > >hmm...where can I get one of those jet assisted take off units? > >cheers, > >John F. Hess, PhD Geez, I've got a couple of L-R 2.25 valve covers sitting here!! Can you use two and wear them like roller blades? Bob B ------------------------------------ From: "Mugele, Gerry" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 12:04:00 PDT Subject: Meeting with LRNA (long) Hi All, Yesterday afternoon I met with Mike O'hara, mechanical guru from LRNA at BMC in San Francisco. Topic A, of course, was Peat's little electronic spasm on the Pair-O-Dice outing. First let me say the Mike is very personable, knowledgeable, and most generous with his time. His primary goal, however, was not quite the same as mine: he wanted to get me to a point where I would not be annoyed with (and complaining about) the fact that I was disabled in the middle of nowhere. (I have stated my goals for this meeting to the net elsewhere). Our conversation centered on the problems with field diagnosis of electrical problems. Our conclusion was that we'll never know exactly what went wrong out there or how it was spontaneously corrected. This does not fit with my view of mechanical self-support. I asked about the possibility of a guide of some type for field diagnosis and repair to get the LR back to civilization. Mike contends that LRNA has considered something like this because of the greater possibility for North American LRs to get stuck far from civilization. In Britain you really can't get a LR too far from anything except perhaps on the way to John O Groats. But they are stymied. The holdup on producing a field repair manual is concern about potential litigation. Something to the effect that if a *temporary* fix is suggested in print; it will be interpreted by someone at some point to be the official procedure and when it fails will result in costly law suits: "LRNA said this is the way to do it." This is only compounded, he says, by the mechanical capabilities (or lack thereof) of the average owner/driver. Apparently the risk isn't worth it considering the small number of customers that will actually use their vehicles as designed. So the only documentation is the shop manual and it is the Bible. We went over Peat in detail and I learned a great deal about his electrics. It was somewhat disappointing to me when Mike, in response to my questions, said that it was not necessary to drop the tank in order to replace the fuel pump; he said I need only remove the access panel on the rear floor. I asked him to show me. He seemed somewhat surprised to see the rear floor riveted/spot welded in place. There were a couple other such mis-cues that were bothersome but then his expertise is probably more focused on the larger market Discoverys and RRs which do have such access to the pump. What did I gain from this? Well I'm still rather ambivalent about the experience; there is very little LRNA can do or is willing to do for those of us that get stuck in the sticks. However this may be an opportunity for us Lazy Buggers to accumulate the experience of our fellow netters into a Joe Lucas hackers "not-a-guide" to field repair of this more sophisticated rolling stock. When I think back about it, my first experiences off road in my series IIa were similarly frustrating when things went wrong. It took me several years to become confident enough to feel that I could go where I wanted without fear of getting permanently stuck. In that pursuit I suggest that when we encounter problems, no matter how minor, we report them to our electronic community together with any fixes or solutions. Then all we need is a volunteer to edit and assemble this into a usable guide. Mike seems to appreciate some of my anxiety regarding Peat's ephemeral electronic malady and to meet his goal (see above) he will replace his fuel pump (just because) and give his electronics a complete going over looking carefully at each connection. He contends, with surprising candor, that traditional Lucas electrics are still the order of the day except that the complexity has increased by a factor of 100. Many of the relays are interchangeable but one must be very clear on what they are doing. Therefore, he suggests a complete shop manual is minimal off-roading equipment and most parts should not be touched by people with no basic mechanical/electrical knowledge. Murphy's law always applies. Mike says that the ECU is a relatively bullet proof component and that even a little immersion is not much of a problem. The other parts are more often culprits. Interestingly the fuel pump relay is, in Peat, under the passenger seat with the ECU and audio amplifier. It is the sealed relay mounted on the blue bus. But I find it curious that the thing just hangs there. The wiring in the seat box is really kinda pathetic and is apparently is a regular source of problems for LR. Mike says that nearly every soldered connection should be considered suspect when problems arise and in particular in the case of intermittent failures. Hmmmm.... I think I remember Bob Bernard suggesting that soldered joints could be a culprit when were on our way to recover Peat. Does all this help? Yes! Does it satisfy my concerns? No! Where do we go from here? I guess the bottom line for me is that I'd better be damn careful when I'm out by myself chasing birds and either learn to live with the risk or always have a safety net of some sort. I think that implies more planning ahead than I can usually manage. I'll just hafta go out with others to minimize the risk. Gerry *** Sacred cows make the best hamburger. -- Mark Twain ************************************************************** _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Gerry Mugele (Mugeleg@wellsfargo.com) _/ _/ Glen Ellen, California (415) 477-3952 _/ _/ "Gooey" '72 SIII 88 _/ _/ "Peat" '95 D90 SW (364/500) _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ************************************************************** ------------------------------------ From: bronson@diamondmm.com (Scott Bronson) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:38:05 -0800 Subject: Europarts experience, tune up items I've talked with a few of you about purchasing stuff through Europarts, so I thought you might be interested. During Paradise my steering box leak really opened wide and dripped two reservoirs during the two days. While I'm sure the guys driving behind me appreciated my keeping the dust down, I'm pretty certain this is not considered treading lightly. So, I called around for steering box prices. I ordered a supposedly genuine, new STC888 for $690 from Europarts (closest second was BritPac with ~$840 for an aftermarket, new STC2845). To my dismay, they sent me an STC8684E, a remanufactured box. LRSJ sells the STC8684E for $699, a whopping $9.00 more. Of course, I complained. The guy at Europarts (Muhammed?) apologized saying that, unbeknownst to him, LRNA would not sell him an STC888. So, knowing I wanted the part soon, he sent out the reman and ate the $150 core charge himself. He said that at any time, if I was dissatisfied, I could just send the box back and he'd refund all my money. Further, he complained to LRNA about the STC888/8684E bait and switch and LRNA promised him a rebate on this part which he said he'd pass along to me when it arrives (around 25 Aug). Weird. I'm trying to figure out if I should be pissed or not. So, I get to decide if I want to put in the Europarts genuine, remanufactured box, or send it back. $200 could be spent on seat covers or 1/2 rock sliders, so I don't want to just squander it. However, if spending $200 means that I have a better chance of forgetting about the box after I install it, then it's money well spent. I just don't know. Has anybody had any experience with this? Also, I'm in the middle of tuning up my 1990 RR. Here are some parts prices as of a month ago or so: Dealer Kragen BritPac PCV Filter 3.46 Fuel Filter 38.74 28/38? 23.69 Air Filter 13.50 12.99 13.00 Plug Wires 74.43 48.99 34.00 Cap 38.42 24.99 20.85 Rotor 36.10 8.59 Plugs (RN12YC) were around $1 apiece from Auto Parts Club. I also bought a transmission filter + gasket + O-rings from the dealer but I don't have the prices with me. Everything else came from BritPac. - Scott ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:40:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) Gerry, Thanks for sharing all this with us. I hope this JLH not-a-fieldguide idea will bare froot. After all, I aspire to eventually acquire one of these complicated coilers myself. And probably a well-used one at that. >Where do we go from here? I guess the bottom line for me is that I'd better >be damn careful when I'm out by myself chasing birds and either learn to >live with the risk or always have a safety net of some sort. I think that >implies more planning ahead than I can usually manage. I'll just hafta go >out with others to minimize the risk. That's excellent advice, of course. Another thought I've long had is to carry a very small off-road motorcycle across the rear of your beast. For many years I had my eye to acquire a Honda Trail 70 for just that reason. A sooper-dooper spare tyre, if you will. The Trail 70 because I figured it to be just about the biggest bike that would more or less fit across the back without overhanging the sides significantly. But Trail 70s are very hard to come by (out of production for many years) and even those would add an awful lot of extra weight to the back. Ah, well... Granny ------------------------------------ From: David Rosenbaum Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) Dear Gerry, Thanks for post about your meeting with LRNA. Your idea for a "not a field repair guide" sounds good. And when all else fails, a copy of such a guide *could* be used to start a fire for warmth. Yesterday I received a "Recall Notice" from LRNA. It came in a *very important* looking envelope. A small sticker fell out of the envelope, and a letter explained that Land Rover neglected to have an up-to-code "hazard" sticker on the D90's battery!!! Such a sticker was included, together with instructions on how to apply it to the battery. Alternatively, the letter stated that I could contact my Land Rover dealer, and that they would affix the sticker *free of charge* 8-) ------------------------------------ From: Shannon Holland Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 13:37:23 -0800 Subject: Defender Safety Recall Anyone else get their "Defender Safety Recall Kit"? Seems that Land Rover is very concerned with the safety of my battery - I got a nice little Danger/Poison sticker to attach to it along with detailed instructions on how to do so. In case I don't wish to install the label myself, I "may take the vehicle and label to your Dealer who will be happy to install it free of charge." If I experience any difficulties intalling it I can call an owner care representative at 1-800-637-6837. I guess this would be another welcome to to the Litigious States of America for Land Rover... Shannon P.S. I blew the installation already, the sticker somehow got attached to the upper right corner of my monitor. ------------------------------------ From: edking@mailserv.maxinet.com (Ed) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:09:42 -0700 Subject: subscribe to L/C list c Hi Ben! I now have a computer and would like to be on the left coast list and mendo recce list and any other list that is approiate. I sent you a letter via email a few days ago. Ed King ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:28:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Defender Safety Recall Shannon said: >P.S. I blew the installation already, the sticker somehow got attached to >the upper right corner of my monitor. This sounds mighty like a Dilbert episode! Granny O- ------------------------------------ From: "James D. Howard II" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:32:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) On Tue, 13 Aug 1996, Granville Pool wrote: > That's excellent advice, of course. Another thought I've long had is to > carry a very small off-road motorcycle across the rear of your beast. For > many years I had my eye to acquire a Honda Trail 70 for just that reason. A > sooper-dooper spare tyre, if you will. The Trail 70 because I figured it to > be just about the biggest bike that would more or less fit across the back > without overhanging the sides significantly. But Trail 70s are very hard to > come by (out of production for many years) and even those would add an awful > lot of extra weight to the back. > The pictures I have seen of Australian Long Range 6x6's show them with a motorcycle on the back. A better solution for me is to use my mountain bike (mainly because I already own it). I just gotta get around to mounting it - probably on the rear door. James ------------------------------------ From: Jeff Gauvin Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:42:08 MDT Subject: RE: Crested Butte & misc... Gerry Elam wrote: > The final event was the Saturday night party at a local ranch. There was > good music, great food and a lot of friendly conversation. About 7:30 PM, we > heard horns blowing and looked up to see a contingent of LR's coming down the > road. Seems that they had tackled a particularly tough pass between the > Crested Butte area and Aspen and had opened it. I'll let one of them tell > that story... they desire the glory! Sorry I missed the whole Crested Butte thing -- nearly in-excuseable considering that I live only 3.5 hours away. But I was too busy buying a diamond (ie. spending the winch/bumper/springs/shocks/rock-sliders/ skidplates/diff-guards/rear-bumperettes/wheels/tires fund), getting engaged, phoning relatives and planning a wedding. Oh, well. Maybe next year! I guess another excuse I could use is that my D90 was in the shop Wed-Fri for it's 18750 mile service plus a "short" list of misc problems including a squeaky pass seat, difficult hood release, cracked hard top, a couple rusted bolts, a malfunctioning window cam, and the persistant 40 mph vibration. They (LR Colo Spgs) did an excellent job addressing all my complaints and FINALLY solved the 40 mph noise! A tech delivered the D90 to my workplace (!) and they mailed me the paperwork so I didn't get the chance to speak to anybody about the solution, but the paperwork was vague -- something about retorquing the radius arms. I'm doubtful, but the noise is gone... They also replaced the hood release cable, replaced the passenger seat rail (cracked weld), replaced the drivers window cam, replaced the rusty bolts, and repaired the crack in the hardtop. Those guys have a jumbo box of donuts coming! The Crested Butte to Aspen pass you mentioned above -- would that be Schofield Pass? If so, wow! I had planned to drive that one over the 4th of July, but it was still closed due to snow. As I understand it it is rarely open, and extremely difficult -- recommended only for high clearance SWB vehicles with expert drivers. It actually comes out at the "town" of crystal (near Marble [near Redstone {south of Carbondale, which is west of Aspen}]), so this may not be the pass you meant. -- Jeff Gauvin '94 D90 ------------------------------------ From: "Nick C. Baggarly" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Valve Cover Racing >The rules say British only. Would a cover from a Sunbeam Tiger qualify >(british car, ford engine as stock from the factory) ? I don't know. >There are by the way, 2 classes: stock, the cover has to be able to be >used on a car and modified, whereby I think anything goes, except for no >wider than ?? (i forget) no longer than 3 feet (I think) and no heavier >than 10 lbs. > >hmm...where can I get one of those jet assisted take off units? I watched the competition last year. It gathered quite a crowd toward the end and reminded me of the good old Indian Guides/Boy Scouts pine-wood derby days. There were several creative entries, some of which went all out with paint, decorations, graphite on the wheels and weights up front. I wonder if I can find time in between lazy buggering to make one before Portland. Better yet we could throw together a last minute Lazy Bugger entry and put a grill badge (which doubles as a rhino bar) up front. Could someone post the rules. I'd like to know the width of the track. Nick "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." -- John Lennon ------------------------------------ From: "David V. Allen" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:58:46 -0700 Subject: RE: Crested Butte & misc... At 15:42 8/13/96 MDT, you wrote: >The Crested Butte to Aspen pass you mentioned above -- would that be >Schofield Pass? If so, wow! I had planned to drive that one over the >4th of July, but it was still closed due to snow. As I understand it it >is rarely open, and extremely difficult -- recommended only for high >clearance SWB vehicles with expert drivers. It actually comes out at >the "town" of crystal (near Marble [near Redstone {south of Carbondale, >which is west of Aspen}]), so this may not be the pass you meant. > >-- >Jeff Gauvin >'94 D90 > Actually, I went on the run where this occurred. The name of the trail was called "Pearl Pass". When we got to the top, several people decided that they wanted to try to make it through to Aspen. While we were tending to an overheated D-110 at the end of the trail, they came back down and told us that they just didn't feel like digging through that much snow to make it through. Go figure... ========================================================================== David Allen 1994 D-90 (Arles Blue) http://www.pubsvc.dsr.com/LandRover ------------------------------------ From: John Brabyn Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) Gerry -- many thanks for sgaring all this experience with us other folks who are constantly at Lucas's mercy! I think the idea of an emergency fix manual put together by users rather than LRNA would be great, and I'd be happy to help. Come to think of it, we could probably do a better job anyway as LR doesn't deal with such situations routinely. I really sympathize about the breakdown miles from nowhere; my RR died on the road a few days after a solo trip (with my daughter) to the Black Rock. (It turned out, after 2 dealer fixes and another breakdown, to be the fuel pump intake being cracked due to a distorted fuel tank -- all new stuff that had been put on at the time of the fuel tank recall). If it had died a few hundred miles earlier I could have had a 50 mile walk (I am not exaggerating). I hate to give up the idea of single vehicle expeditions, and I, like Granny, have often toyed with the idea of a small motorcycle on the back. But that remains a dream for now. In my case too, everything was fixed without charge, but that doesn't allay one's apprehension. Well, let's start on that manual! I've started a series of articles I'm thinking of sending to the AW about RR problems and fixes, some of which material may be usable. I keep thinking about how to fix a fuel pump in the boonies -- no fun! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR with Lucas Electrics ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:37:41 +0000 Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) > For > many years I had my eye to acquire a Honda Trail 70 for just that reason. A > sooper-dooper spare tyre, if you will. > Granny > > And you guys laugh when I bring my mountain to a section of "mini-rubicon" trail :) Beats walking, and its great exercise! Tomw, Disco will be out of the shop tomorrow ( yech, I've been driving a rental car for a week! ) PS: I may have stated it takes three weeks to get a SJLR appointment, .... but they usually do good work... and if they screw up or something they will accomodate you! I have no problems with them being on the list..... They let me see what they do, talk to the mechanics etc.... being on the list would help extend that level of service. ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:46:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Kenlow Fan > > HUH? The benefit of the Kenlow fan is that it is not running constantly. > That's where the extra power comes from. You don't have to always turn > the fan. The other advantage to an electric fan is (assuming you wire in > an on/off switch) being able to turn it off for water crossings, so water > doesn'tget strewn about the engine compartment. If I ever do manage to > go electrical for cooling, I would always bring the actual mechanical > fins in my box of spares as it would be an easy field repair to put back > on the mechanical fan. > Thanks for all the Kenlow fan responses ( hey what a fan club :) Sorry I so late in responding ( I'm to busy being a lazy bugger ! ) I will have to check the ease of removal and replacial :) of stock fan blades as a first reality check, then consider the electrical load issues etc..... I like the Idea of keeping the mechanical one in the vehicle as a spare ( Hey I can use as a winch anchor to!! :) This is a medium priority what if kinda thing.... I'll post if I actually do anything about it! Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: John_Benham@nps.gov (John Benham) (by way of gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:44:33 -0700 Subject: Range Rover parts Dear Range Rover owners, Recently my 1989 R/R engine was overheating when traversing high altitude 4x4 passes here in Colorado. It was simply traced to a faulty thermostat. NAPA carries many parts for the Range Rover including the thermostat: Superstat by Stant #530060, 160F, $9.00. Also, they have the R/R disk brake pads with sensors: NAPA Ray MS-7398 for rear, $29.95, about half of other suppliers! And they carry hoses, belts, and tune up parts. BUT, they list it under LAND ROVER. Good luck, John Benham 1989 Range Rover, 1968 Land Rover IIA 88 Fort Collins, CO ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:49:06 -0700 Subject: A book worthy of publication John Brabyn said (in part): >I think the idea of an emergency fix manual put together by users rather >than LRNA would be great, and I'd be happy to help. Come to think of it, >we could probably do a better job anyway as LR doesn't deal with such >situations routinely. [snip] >Well, let's start on that manual! I've started a series of articles I'm >thinking of sending to the AW about RR problems and fixes, some of which >material may be usable. >From what I've seen of John Brabyn's publication efforts, this could be a dandy guide indeed. This could be a big seller. A companion volume to _Range_Rover_Country_! Cheers, Granville ------------------------------------ From: "Tom Walsh" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:50:37 +0000 Subject: Re: Tire size > " I have been making > some enquiries into getting tyres from the States and I may have hit > paydirt. Apparently after the gulf war the US military retyred all it's > vehicles. There are now loads of surplus, part worn tyres around (inc. > loads of Michelin XL 900x16, some in very good condition. I have a > contact who says he'll be able to get these (plus other things for about > *20 each)" > I forgot what size is the max to fit on the LR wheels, I don't think I > could turn 9x16 tires with the old 2 litre in the 88" but would these fit > on the RR? This looks like a good cheap source for tires for those of us > who are cheap and don't want to spend $400-500 for a second set of tires > for playing. > Paul This sounds interesting! I wonder how much fender hacking I'd have to do for those monsters! At 20 bucks a whack I'd be willing to expirament with the tire purchase... As for turning radius.... these tires are tall enough that turning is no longer is an issue... its who or what you are running over that you should be concerned with! IE: don't turn.... drive over it! Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com http://www.fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* ------------------------------------ From: "barnett childress" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 19:05:39 -0400 Subject: re: Europarts experience, tune up items Scott, I had ordered rear inward facing bench seats from Europarts several months ago after Mohammed assured me that he could get "genuine factory LR seats" like I specifically asked for. However after several weeks of waiting, many phone calls, and a lot of confusion over what shipped and when, I received what was obviously an aftermarket seat. When I told Mohammed this is not what I ordered he apologized, saying that he was just trying to get me the best possible price. I returned the seat and the next seat that arrived was a genuine seat. The quality was far superior to the first seat he sent. Unfortunately dealing with Europarts was such a hassle I ended up sending that seat back also. To Mohammed's credit he did send me these items with no money up front. I think Mohammed and Europarts are trustworthy but VERY disorganized and hard to do business with. But if you're willing to put up with all of that he does have some of the lowest prices. That's my two cents worth anyway. Hope this helps. Cheers, Barnett 95 D90 ------------- Original Text From: daemon@ridgecrest.ca.us, on 8/13/96 12:58 PM: I've talked with a few of you about purchasing stuff through Europarts, so I thought you might be interested. During Paradise my steering box leak really opened wide and dripped two reservoirs during the two days. While I'm sure the guys driving behind me appreciated my keeping the dust down, I'm pretty certain this is not considered treading lightly. So, I called around for steering box prices. I ordered a supposedly genuine, new STC888 for $690 from Europarts (closest second was BritPac with ~$840 for an aftermarket, new STC2845). To my dismay, they sent me an STC8684E, a remanufactured box. LRSJ sells the STC8684E for $699, a whopping $9.00 more. Of course, I complained. The guy at Europarts (Muhammed?) apologized saying that, unbeknownst to him, LRNA would not sell him an STC888. So, knowing I wanted the part soon, he sent out the reman and ate the $150 core charge himself. He said that at any time, if I was dissatisfied, I could just send the box back and he'd refund all my money. Further, he complained to LRNA about the STC888/8684E bait and switch and LRNA promised him a rebate on this part which he said he'd pass along to me when it arrives (around 25 Aug). Weird. I'm trying to figure out if I should be pissed or not. So, I get to decide if I want to put in the Europarts genuine, remanufactured box, or send it back. $200 could be spent on seat covers or 1/2 rock sliders, so I don't want to just squander it. However, if spending $200 means that I have a better chance of forgetting about the box after I install it, then it's money well spent. I just don't know. Has anybody had any experience with this? Also, I'm in the middle of tuning up my 1990 RR. Here are some parts prices as of a month ago or so: Dealer Kragen BritPac PCV Filter 3.46 Fuel Filter 38.74 28/38? 23.69 Air Filter 13.50 12.99 13.00 Plug Wires 74.43 48.99 34.00 Cap 38.42 24.99 20.85 Rotor 36.10 8.59 Plugs (RN12YC) were around $1 apiece from Auto Parts Club. I also bought a transmission filter + gasket + O-rings from the dealer but I don't have the prices with me. Everything else came from BritPac. - Scott ------------------------------------ From: parch@smmff.com (Paul Archibald) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 16:46:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Tire size After talking to a tire guy and him talking to Michelin, I have been told that the Military 9x16 tires are actually XS not XL The tire guy sais no such thing as XL and that the XS were Sand Tires. I still want to find out what kind of tred pattern they have, I'm not familiar with sand tires?? Paul >> " I have been making >> some enquiries into getting tyres from the States and I may have hit >> paydirt. Apparently after the gulf war the US military retyred all it's >> vehicles. There are now loads of surplus, part worn tyres around (inc. >> loads of Michelin XL 900x16, some in very good condition. I have a >> contact who says he'll be able to get these (plus other things for about >> *20 each)" >> I forgot what size is the max to fit on the LR wheels, I don't think I >> could turn 9x16 tires with the old 2 litre in the 88" but would these fit >> on the RR? This looks like a good cheap source for tires for those of us >> who are cheap and don't want to spend $400-500 for a second set of tires >> for playing. >> Paul > > >This sounds interesting! I wonder how much fender hacking I'd have to >do for those monsters! At 20 bucks a whack I'd be willing to >expirament with the tire purchase... As for turning radius.... these >tires are tall enough that turning is no longer is an issue... its who >or what you are running over that you should be concerned with! IE: >don't turn.... drive over it! > >Tomw Paul Archibald Parch@smmff.com (510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336 '58 88" RHD 2-litre "87 Range-Rover-156,000 miles-going strong (Squeak) ------------------------------------ From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 16:44:58 -0700 Subject: socket wrench question I am now seriously contemplating the purchase of TOOLS, and having looked at Sears and the sets available and the costs, I got to be wondering: why buy a complete set of regular hand sockets AND a complete set of air wrench sockets when I can get just a set of air wrench sockets. Is there a reason not to do this, do they two not interchange, etc? The Searsdroid said he didn't recommend it because the air wrench sockets are heavier and I might get tired of hefting the heavier air sockets. While this may be true, I have to wonder if it is that big a deal given the $$ savings. It still may be that getting a complete Sears set of tools and the air tools are worth it given the times when I may need two sockets. One other thing, the air sockets are only six point not 12. How big a deal? What is the best manufacturer of air compressors? I am planning to go with oiled compressor not the oilless because of the noise. But the money savings are still appealing. Do I need to always have the inline air filter on oiled compressors? What is the best size (120v required but ok with 120/240). Thanks alot in advance for the answers -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 ------------------------------------ From: "Mugele, Gerry" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 17:03:00 PDT Subject: Re: Meeting with LRNA (long) John, Thanks for your input. I really think this is an important issue and I agree with you...we are the best group to create a guide to get us back to the paved road and tow trucks. I did bring up your situation and apparently Mike had at least heard about it, which I found gratifying...the dealers do talk to LRNA about problems. Did RAB do the work on yours? BTW, I came *this* close to bringing my Mtn bike along on this trip but didn't want to pack the extra junk just so I could leave Lilly back at camp with nothing to do. So I left her in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do instead. I thought about that alot while walking I'll tell ya. I definitely don't want to forego my solo trips ... it is the most relaxation I've ever found... me and the wilderness. Gerry *** Sacred cows make the best hamburger. -- Mark Twain ************************************************************** _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Gerry Mugele (Mugeleg@wellsfargo.com) _/ _/ Glen Ellen, California (415) 477-3952 _/ _/ "Gooey" '72 SIII 88 _/ _/ "Peat" '95 D90 SW (364/500) _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ************************************************************** ------------------------------------ From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 17:17:15 -0700 Subject: help-help manual John and others have discussed: > an emergency fix manual put together by users rather and: >Well, let's start on that manual! I've started a series of articles I'm >thinking of sending to the AW about RR problems and fixes, some of which >I keep thinking about how to fix a fuel pump in the boonies -- no fun! My motorcycle club (Moto-Guzzi National Owners Club) offers a 3-volume book set of fixes that riders have evolved over the years/miles, called "Help-Help". These are essentially reprinted from the club newsletter verbatim. Advice ranges from how to bypass blown fuses to substituting $20 VW pistons for $150 'goose pistons. You would all feel right at home with Italian electrical systems too. The manuals would make a good format to copy, as each article is simply a story of how a given person fixed a problem. The liability is avoided that way. It is roughly organized by subject. For us to do it we need a focal person to start compiling our stories. Any takers? '64 109 diesel 5-door (Safari-SoGoody) jouster@earth.rocket.com (John Ousterhout) ------------------------------------ From: KKelly6788@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 23:07:02 -0400 Subject: Fuel Pump Access, Etc. >It was somewhat disappointing to me when Mike, in response to my questions, >said that it was not necessary to drop the tank in order to replace the fuel >pump; he said I need only remove the access panel on the rear floor. I >asked him to show me. He seemed somewhat surprised to see the rear floor >riveted/spot welded in place. The '91-'95 Range Rovers (except the '91 GDEs that were built to '90 specs.) have an access panel to get to the fuel pump without dropping the tank. Do the Discos? >In that pursuit I suggest that when we encounter problems, no matter how >minor, we report them to our electronic community together with any fixes or >solutions. Then all we need is a volunteer to edit and assemble this into a >usable guide. I have started working on a Range Rover owners guide, and I am going to post a first draft on my web page (along with the first draft of my Range Rover buyers guide and my updated RR FAQ with five more pages of RR info) as soon as I get one with my ISDN line and new ISP. Most of the RR stuff applies to all V8 CS LRs. Kevin Kelly ------------------------------------ From: "Franklin H. Yap" Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:24:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Europarts experience, tune up items barnett childress wrote: > > Scott, > I had ordered rear inward facing bench seats from Europarts several months > ago after Mohammed assured me that he could get "genuine factory LR seats" > like I specifically asked for. However after several weeks of waiting, > I think Mohammed and Europarts are trustworthy but VERY disorganized and > hard to do business with. But if you're willing to put up with all of that > he does have some of the lowest prices. I ordered several mats and a rear load protector from Europarts when they had the April (?) 7% internet order special. The load protector didn't work because LR changed the design so it will only work with bench seats, not the jump seats. (I learned this from someone on the CSO list in Great Britain who had the same problem.) Europarts was quite late in getting the order but was always cordial on the phone and did take it back when I explained the load protector wouldn't work. Unfortunately I never got the 7% discount despite requesting it several times (and receiving promises that it would be given - I suppose I could have complained to my credit card company but he seems like such a nice person I didn't feel like bothering with it) and I was also out of $30+ for the shipping (to me) of the load space protector. FHY ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 22:18:19 PDT Subject: Re: Europarts experience, tune up items On Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:38:05 -0800 you wrote: >I ordered a supposedly genuine, new STC888 for $690 from Europarts (closest >second was BritPac with ~$840 for an aftermarket, new STC2845). To my >dismay, they sent me an STC8684E, a remanufactured box. LRSJ sells the >STC8684E for $699, a whopping $9.00 more. Of course, I complained. Good call on that! >So, I get to decide if I want to put in the Europarts genuine, >remanufactured box, or send it back. $200 could be spent on seat covers or >1/2 rock sliders, so I don't want to just squander it. However, if >spending $200 means that I have a better chance of forgetting about the box >after I install it, then it's money well spent. If you were going to do that you might be able to get one cheaper at a wrecking yard. The place in Campbell got a '90 RR in a week or two ago, not sure how much he would want, but you might want to check. When I talked to him he seemed like a parts whore, and I was a bit put off, but if there was something I wanted I would hold my nose when I would have to talk to him...;-) >Also, I'm in the middle of tuning up my 1990 RR. Here are some parts >prices as of a month ago or so: > > Dealer Kragen BritPac >PCV Filter 3.46 >Fuel Filter 38.74 28/38? 23.69 >Air Filter 13.50 12.99 13.00 >Plug Wires 74.43 48.99 34.00 >Cap 38.42 24.99 20.85 >Rotor 36.10 8.59 > >Plugs (RN12YC) were around $1 apiece from Auto Parts Club. I also bought a >transmission filter + gasket + O-rings from the dealer but I don't have the >prices with me. Everything else came from BritPac. Funny you posted these prices, I was considering posting a message to see if someone wanted to host a price page in a piece of their web. I have a friend that works over at Netscape and he has perl script that allows people to end information for a calander of events. Anyone from anywhere connected to the web can enter an event and the users can pull up a calandar of their choice and the events get listed. This stores the data in regular flat files and it seems to work ok. For parts there probably wouldn't be that much data total, but you never know. I also don't know how much work it would be to take this perl scrpt and modify it to be a parts database rather than an events database, but I don't think it would be that hard. Here are some prices of things I bought recently that are not on your list. Dealer Kragen BritPac Oil Filter 6.95 (OEM on sale, $12.95?norm) Fan Belt (AC & Water Pump) 14.70 Fan Belt (Power Steering) 14.95 Fan Belt (Alternator) 10.32 Crankcase Intake filter 6.92 Crankcase Breakter filter O-Ring 2.70 Rear Mud Flaps 24.95 Haynes Shop Manual (606) 29.95 Coolant Sensor 21.80 Fuel Pump 425.00 275.00 OME Shocks 64.95 (haven't received invoice) OME Springs 60.00 (haven't received invoice) LR Shop Manual 133.00 LR Binder 57.00 I also have the prices for all 6 of the hoses from British Pacific, I was going to buy all of them (as of last Friday) but by Monday I decided to hold off on all the hoses and order shocks and springs (should be here tomorrow) along with pedal pads for accelerator, brake, driving rest, and some door handle gaskets (???). The door handle gaskets are a piece of plastic/rubber that sits underneath the rectangular handle frame (looks like a gasket of some type, they cost about $6 each and look like a bunch of work to put on, but all 4 of mine are cracked and/or broken. I'm all ears to hear what it takes to do the trans filter, I had the dealer do it for me last week as I didn't want to get myself into something that I didn't have the right tool for. It doesn't look that hard to do once the pan is down, but JohnB said you have to leverage the chassis a bit to get it out. Alan DuBoff - OS/2 Advisor aland@ibm.net Bunker Hill Software ------------------------------------ From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:42:42 -0700 Subject: Michelin XS tyres >After talking to a tire guy and him talking to Michelin, I have been told >that the Military 9x16 tires are actually XS not XL The tire guy sais no >such thing as XL and that the XS were Sand Tires. I still want to find out >what kind of tred pattern they have, I'm not familiar with sand tires?? >Paul No such thing as XL? Michael Carradine, are you listening? He's right about the XS, though. These are sand tyres that are not good for much else, from what I've read about them. They are very cool-looking, though, with a zig-zag block tread, kind of like a non-directional version of the XCL but with the blocks more tapered and two-stepped, not as deep, either. Did you ever get a price quote? Granny ------------------------------------ End of Digest