From: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Subject: Digest for mendo_recce: 8/12/1996 Errors-To: owner-mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Reply-To: mendo_recce@ridgecrest.ca.us Precedence: bulk This is the digest for the mendo_recce mailling list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------ From: Morgan Hannaford Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Pacific Northwest Team Trophy Challenge (day 1) Well, here is the beginning of a 3 part story documenting the team from Mendo_Recces participation in the 2nd annual Pacific Northwest Team Challenge. This was just about the most fun I've had on a Land Rover trip (nearly tied with the last Suds run/Sherwood Rd trip). Part 1 Outline 1) TRIP UP 2) ARRIVAL 3) THE COMPETITION TRIP UP Jeremy and Morgan left from Berkeley at about 19:00hr on Thursday. We had about 750 miles ahead of us, and we knew we weren't going to make it to even the Oregon border before midnight. We ended up sleeping at a rest stop near Yreka, throwing the bags out behind a picnic table. ARRIVAL Friday we pulled through Portland around 13:30hr. Lee's Camp, where the even was staged, was about a 1 hour drive west. Driving into the campsite, which was a private field, we were met by Doug Shipman. He had come in a dormobile, towing his Series IIA - 90......yes, he had cut 10 inches out of a '72 Range Rover chassis and mounted an early IIA body onto the Range Rover drive line and engine. A few other clubs were already there. A Toyota club was set up on one side of the field, and the winners of last years (the first PNWTTC) event were looking over their vehicles. Last years winners had a marquis combo of a lifted, but fairly stock FJ-40 Land Cruiser and CJ-5. Both of these vehicles had been towed in behind a large truck and motorhome, respectively. THE COMPETITION As we sat there eating lunch many more vehicles came roaring down the road and into the staging field: A 40 foot motorhome towing a Jeep on a trailer; a full size pickup towing a Land Cruiser; another motorhome towing a Jeep. It seemed like most of the competition riges were hauled in from Oregon and Washington........and we drove our rig >700 miles??? Many vehicles did come in under their own steam. A Land Cruiser stationwagon, mounted on 40" directional tractor tires made an impressive showing. We wondered how that beast fared on the highway. Countless other beat up, jacked-up, spring-over, rowdy cam, hot rodded, super mudder, diamond plated vehicles pulled in. Jeremy and Morgan were beginning to wonder if these folks knew something we didn't. On the way out to pick up Eric Cope from the Portland Airport we thought a spied a truck towing a trailer with the new Jeep Wranger on board, but Jeremy confirmed that it was just the portable outhouses that Doug had ordered for the event. When we returned from the airport with Eric many more vehicles were present. A club/marquis division had established. All the "Jolly Jeepers" (a local club) were gathered by the creek. The "Toyota Cruiser Club" parked off by the trees. Another club named "Flat Broke and 4- Wheelin'" were parked over by the highway, with a mixture of mangled Jeeps and Cruisers. One of them had its hood up all evening, revving up and backfiring out the carb. And then there were Land-Rovers. We met up with Stephanie and Bruce, who had managed to find our campsite. The Land-Rovers gathered right in the middle of the field, next to our team and Doug Shipman's rigs. It was interesting to notice the contrast in arrival and camping style between the different clubs. All Land-Rovers came in under their own power. Tents, "the back of the vehicle", and bare ground were the choice arrangements. We were apparently the only team to come from outside the Pacific Northwest, even among the Land-Rover owners who, as Doug stated, tend to be willing to drive long distances for adventure. Grumblings about "those Californians" and "expensive Land Rovers" could be heard around the perimeter, but of course not in the middle where the LROs convened to compare vehicles and talk shop. Of the LROs there were already several D90s present; white, blue, and green. Two of these were driven by mechanics from the local Land-Rover dealership (..hopefully not customer's rigs left over the weekend.....:). A pair of 88s rolled in, one of them definately sounded funny.....we later discovered this vehicle had a Cadillac V8 and a GM truck transmission, which was mated to a Land-Rover IIA transfer case. The rear axle was a Salisbury and the front axle was a modified Dana 60 axle casing (which looks a lot like a Salisbury) with a Salisbury diff and Land-Rover swivels mounted on the ends. This beast supposedly generated 300hp and >500ft-lb of torque. The front suspension also had been modified by extending the front hangers and mounting stock rear 88 springs for extra axle travel.....a talented machinist I must say! However this truck was shod with nearly new 28" mud-terrains........go figure! The 2 ex-MOD diesel D90s out of British Columbia arrived. These were the same rigs featured in the Aluminum Workhorse last year doing the Rubicon Trail with style. This team also finished 2nd place at last years Team Trophy Challenge. The most impressive vehicle of all was a Jeep CJ 6x6. This was the same custom built rig that placed 2nd for trail ability in 4-Wheeler mags Top Truck Challenge a few years back. This vehicle had 3 driven axles, each with ARB lockers and a air-bag rear suspension system. This thing has axle articulation like you wouldn't believe, and is mounted on 35" tires. Doug informed us that this gent had his sights set on winning this year and that the driver knew these trails and his vehicle was unstoppable.......Needless to say we were up against some pretty awesome machinery. Friday evening we performed our usual Mendo_Recce rituals of cigars and vapour locke solution. We tried to pump the course marshalls for as they came by to chat about the D90s. The next morning we got up early to prepare the vehicles. Morgan floundered in a nearby cold stream to wake up. Vehicles were still arriving. A very beat up 2 door Range Rover, paired with a stock Series IIA arrived, soon followed by another Series Land-Rover team headed by Stephanie and Gordon Perrot. Stephanie's vehicle was a Coil Sprung IIA 91". They had creatively welded the suspension mounts from a D90 onto the IIA chassis. Their partner was in a stock IIA. Originally there were 7 Land-Rover teams signed up, but the green D90 mentioned earlier had gone out to do some night driving Friday and returned with a broken front left axle. This was one of the Land-Rover mechanics and he figured this happened because of driver-line (sic) play/backlash/slop wearing on the components. ********************************************************* Part 2 1) DRIVERS MEETING 2) HEAD OUT 3) ROOT OF ALL EVIL 4) BIG RED 5) A WINCHING WE WILL GO PART 1 6) DIS-ORIENTEERING 7) A WINCHING WE WILL GO PART 2 8) SPECIAL TASKS 9) BACK TO THE CAMP 10) HEAD OUT AGAIN 11) 90 SQUEEZE TASK 12) LOST??? WE'RE NOT LOST!!! 13) STEEP HILLS 14) MECHANICAL TASK 15) DELIVERANCE TASK-ORIENTEERING 16) EVENING FUN AT CAMP ------------------------------------ From: John Hess Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: portland ramblings Daniel and others, Pardon my intrusions but I would say that you should spend one night at Portland. friday is the opening day; cars arrive from late afternoon into the evening and after. Saturday is field meet day proper with the bbq in the evening. also sat afternoon is the valve cover competition--- mount wheels under a british car valve cover and race it down a slope. (Since I have just reminded myself of this, I think I need to get a cover so Alex and I can build one.) A good deal of the total rover experience of portalnd is camping on the grass, near the trees, with the bathrooms a couple hundred yards away. Small conversation groups form at every camp and people spend the evening moving around, talking, showing off photos and generally getting to know each other. A good number of folks will be internet names that are familiar but a bunch will be "new" rover friends. Sunday, the local club shows up early and gets moving on a hearty breakfast of pancakes, sausages and eggs. People then take runs on the off road course or say their good byes and leave. Final advice for Daniel and others who are contemplating the quick trip. Fly in sat, spend the night, fly out sunday. Make sure you get your son on a couple off road rides provided by Portland Land Rover, for people used to the regular car on street experience, it's quite a thrill. Please let me know if I can help with anything else, I plan to be at Portland friday evening through sunday morning. cheers, John F. Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Cell Bio. and Hum. Anat. FAX me 916-752-8520 (ask first) University of California at Davis Davis, CA 95616 Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu ------------------------------------ From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:59:34 -0700 Subject: rides from the airport I'd be happy to transport people flying in/out, but don't have much room for passengers (no back seats and too much camping gear). However, I'd like to suggest that someone (Doug? Is the dealership on-line?) in the Portland area might offer a shuttle vehicle? Any takers? Think of the free advertising! Maybe they'll cancel their return flights and buy a new vehicle after experiencing the ride from the airport in one? John Ousterhout jouster@earth.rocket.com '64 109 deezil (useful for mosquito control) ------------------------------------ From: parch@smmff.com (Paul Archibald) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:53:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Portland To anyone who has not received a registration packet, I made half a dozen copies of the reg form, let me know if you need one. I am sending mine in today. Apparently we have until Aug. 28 for late registration. If you didn't get it in by the 10'th you can't buy the limited edition regalia (whatever that is??) or get your photo in the souvenir program. But hey you get a cool dash plaque to put next to that Lazy Bugger badge. The guy that I sold my MGA to this week-end, wants to know if he can pitch a tent amongst us, like Ben is going to do. I told him I didn't see any problem with that myself but I wanted to get a collective approval from the group. He doesn't have a Rover at the moment, but is seriously thinking about it. He is interested in going on some treks with us, he used to race rally cars in Britain, Great guy. > As of now, I'll be going to Portland All-British Field Meet. (Sadly, >sans Rover though). Flying in on Friday 30 Aug and out on Monday 2 >Sept, I think (the tickets are in the San Jose office right now). > >Ben sorry to not have you caravan up with those that do, see you there. Paul Archibald Parch@smmff.com (510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336 '58 88" RHD 2-litre "87 Range-Rover-156,000 miles-going strong (Squeak) ------------------------------------ From: Benjamin Allan Smith Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:03:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Portland In message <199608121652.JAA17631@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write: > To anyone who has not received a registration packet, I made half a dozen > copies of the reg form, let me know if you need one. I am sending mine in > today. What about those of us w/o Rovers? Pay an entrance fee at the gate? Ben ------------------------------------ From: debrown@srp.gov Date: 12 Aug 96 09:52:54 MST Subject: Ben, please re-subscribe me FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 Ben, please resubscribe me in digest mode. I'm "back" from Crested Butte. Well, I never quite made it. :-( ===================== (misc. "special characters!") ;-) Hello all! I apologies to any who were expecting to see me in CB this past weekend. It all started out very well... I met up with Gery Elam and his parents at our designated rendezvous spot. After a few moments, introductions, etc. we were off to CB. (While chatting over the CB on channel 7.) All seemed great! My RR had been running hot in the past few months, but within the last few days prior to leaving it was almost always reading in the lower 1/4 of the temperature gauge. I figured a loose wire or something, and thought to myself "great! It's mostly fixed!" All seemed fine, when all of the sudden the RR was losing power going up the mountain grades outside of Phoenix. I checked the temp gauge, which had gone from cool, to in the red within a matter of a few minutes! we all pulled over, and after cooling the RR, added some water and continued. This was a short lived journey though, and the RR once again overheated about 10 minutes later. I decided that I'd taken up enough of Gerry and his family's time, and since his parent's had to catch a flight in Durango the next morning, I suggested that they continue, while I changed the thermostat. (I brought a new one with.) After changing the t-stat it still wouldn't start, and sounded "strange" while cranking. I had my son try starting while I looked at the engine and noticed water being pumped out of the exhaust pipe where it connects to the manifold on the passenger side. BAD NEWS!!! At this point my heart sank, and I knew I'd never make CB. We hitched a ride to a rest stop and called my brother in Flagstaff, about 70 miles away. He came and rescued us, and towed the RR up to his shop for examination. He did some compression testing (only 80psi cold) and then some air pressure in the spark plug holes. His diagnosis was grim: Either a cracked block, or cylinder head. Possibly just a warped head. We tore it down, and removed the one head, checked for cracks. (found none) Then we checked for warpage and found it to be at least 0.010 warped. We took it to a friend of his that works in a machine shop and had it tested for cracks, and to have it milled. They measured 0.012 warpage and confirmed that there are no cracks in it. Well, that's where the RR stands to date. I asked my brother to compression check the other side before he removes the head to see how the rings seem. I know he's not going to want to put rings and bearings in, since he's swamped with work, but he will if they look worn. I had already pretty much decided that if the block WAS bad, I'd be looking for an adapter to replace it with a Chevy or Ford small block. (Sorry if this offends anyone!) But, the final determination has still not been made on the block. (It has just over 110K miles on it.) They'll also mill the other head to the same amount removed from the warped one. These heads were redone about 7 months ago for slight warping and a valve job. I doubt that they'd be any good at all if they ever warp again. Anyone know just how much can be shaved off a RR head? Any opinions or advice??? What engine replacements are available? (adapter kits.) Thank you all... Dave (driving the 109 these days) Brown P.S. I mentioned in a previous posting that running without A/C was not an option... Well, it is now! I'm using the 109. :-/ Another 4 to 6 weeks and we'll be down to "below 100 degree" temperatures anyway! Should have the RR back by then! ;-) #=======# _________ "What lies behind us and what lies |__|__|__\___ //__/__|__\___ before us are tiny matters compared | _| | |_ |} \__ - ____ - _|} to what lies within us." "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Ralph Waldo Emerson ------------------------------------ From: peterson@newton.apple.com (Bob Peterson) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 10:45:49 PDT Subject: Re: Peat's elect Tricks (was Trouble in Pair-O-Dice (Epilog)) >One of the frustrating things I found in dealing with BMC (or any >other dealership for that matter) is that you can't talk to the guys that >are actually doing the work and presumably understand it. You can only >talk to the *service advisor* and most often they seem to be either >uninformed, too busy to discuss it or evasive. Greetings - So far, I have not experienced any significant degree of evasion at San Jose Land Rover. Every time Algie has been in there for repair or scheduled service, I've been allowed, quite literally, to stay with the vehicle and consult "live" with the service techs. Yep, they have those "INSURANCE REGULATIONS REQUIRE US TO..." signs that supposedly keep you out from under the hood (or even within the garage area) while they're working, but I've never been chased away. Quite the opposite in fact. One service tech at SJLR, a guy named Mark, was excited to hear about all of this internet stuff and wants to know how he can get on the CSO and LRO lists, plus our little Mendo club. Does anyone have any problem with having a dealer service guy on our Mendo net? Would his presence inspire or constrict the free expression of opinions, particularly about SJLR? Is this even an issue? Are there already service guys on our net? Hey, the way I see it, I have about a year and a half more of LRNA sucking in all of those infamous warranty repair costs before the tables turn and they get to start showing repair and parts revenue to make up for 3 years of warranty cash flow in the opposite direction. At that point, we'll need all of the friends we can get in the LR service biz. I'll send Ben the e-mail address for Mark if no one is particularly concerned by any potential breech of propriety. Bob Peterson '95 5-speed Disco, "Algernon" ------------------------------------ From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:06:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Painting the truck. > Now i'm just > about ready to start painting. I plan to match the body to the original > red paint (the trick of course is where to find the most unfaded paint - > right now my best guess is an area near the inside door handle. Any other > ideas where a good original colour can be found?) > > Neil Andrews Maybe this will help... Dupont Centari Ditzler Glasurit Limestone 38505A 46251 Marine Blue 38503A 16514 ROV504 Poppy Red 38506AH ROV303 Light (Pastel) Green 38504A ROV605 Sand ACF/004 or 26291 Bronze Green 38500A 46451 LEY637 Arctic White Taken from the Rovers North newsletter (Spring '91), the paint codes for popular Series Land Rover colors are: RM Supermax Ditzler Glasurit Dupont Centauri Limestone RV-040 46251 38505-A Marine Blue RV-017 16514 ROV-504 38503-A Poppy Red RV-029 ROV-303 38506-AH Pastel Green RV-028 ROV-605 38504-A Bronze Green RV-027 46451 LEY-637 38500-A Some colors require white primer, others grey. Arles Blue, PPG: 17165 Alpine White, PPG: 90991 =================== begin stolen message ====================================== Here it is, A Primer on Painting. I hope this is adequate coverage (Jeremy's pun) of the subject. If I glossed over something, sorry, but I really hope you're enameled with it. AOL seems to accept the whole document but, if not complete, I will mail it in parts. Hope it's helpful! The following information was provided to me by my friend, Patrick Cooley -- a most excellent painter. I called Patrick today and asked if it was Ok to post his painting tips and he said "sure and give my phone number to anyone who has questions". Here it is... Patrick Cooley San Diego, CA 619-272-9756 Note from Patrick Cooley Keep in mind that the following information is biased on my opinions and experience but I think I know what I'm talking about. Any questions or difference of opinion just ask or tell me. It won't hurt my feelings. A few pointers: 1. If the job is not done correctly it is going to look really bad. 2. There are no short-cuts. 3. There are no miracle products. 4. Do one or two things at a time. Mix small portions of paint and take your time. Even small things can be overwhelming. 5. Finish everything else first -- pay bills, housework, etc. PRIMERS For Painting I feel nothing beats 2-part epoxy primer--expensive but it works. You may hear about zinc chromate primer which is Ok for cast aluminum i.e. outboard motor parts, but not so good for bare metal and it is hard to prep for painting. Primers -- pros and cons EPOXY Pros: Bonds like... Epoxy! Drys hard and completely. Can build it up thick and fast. Waterproof -- can be a topcoat also. Best for bare metal. Cons: Expensive, sticky, strong odor. ZINC PRIMER Pro: Good corrosion resistance. Con: Doesn't cure very hard. Hard to prep for top coat, consequently topcoat will not bond to it very well (chips easily). Expensive. Over rated (opinion). Limited usage. SELF-ETCHING PRIMER Pro: Necessary for and best for bare aluminum. Con: Limited use (but perfect for L.R. paint system). Not for ferrous metals (steel, iron). OTHER PRIMERS You will use these as a complete paint system. Always use the entire line -- if you use Dupont Centari top coat, use Dupont primers also. I have used Dupont Centari on The Landrover (Cornwallis) because that was the system Rovers North and Atlantic British was offering as being the truest reproduction of Marine Blue. Hence I used Dupont primers and etching primer base coats for the bare aluminum. For example: To paint bare aluminum: 1. Self-etching primer 2. Regular primer or primer surfacer (builds up thick if there are a lot of imperfections). 3. Standard compatible top coat. For most applications with new body parts from Land Rover you should do all three steps because the primer on new parts is either scratched up anyway or the manufacturer just put on a "fog" coat which is worthless because the aluminum may have been greasy or dusty from production. I believe (opinion) P.P.G. products are superior to Dupont or Sherwin Williams (although I have little experience with S.W.) because they bond better, are more forgiving and have superior characteristics (???). Buy the paint from one of the suppliers (BP, AB, RN) but buy compatible thinners and catalyst from local suppliers as price and freshness will be better. Opt for "medium temperature" thinner. "What about Kragen cheesy (cheap) primer?" Peter asks. 1. Don't buy into the epoxy-in-a-can stuff. Save your money. 2. Always use SANDABLE automotive primer. 3. DO NOT use cheesy stuff for complete projects. Why buy top-quality paint and spray it over this junk!? 4. Cheesy primer has its uses though. It drys fast and thick so it can be used as a spray filler for sanding out scratches and it can also be used to test-paint stuff to see if the surface is really smooth -- to the eye, not only to the hand. Example: You have just finished sanding and filling the shift lever (??!). It looks pretty good and you are thinking about going with epoxy primer. Wait. Unless you are sure of your surface prep, first spray on a coat or two of this stuff and check it out -- you will be surprised at what you may have missed. Don't worry, let it dry and sand it again before priming it for real. If you have used cheesy primer as a filler or to check your surface prep make sure you wet-sand all unnecessary stuff off leaving only what is needed to fill pin holes and scratches. The top coat may show a different gloss over this primer than quality stuff. If you have the patience, spray another quality primer coat on at this point then prep for the top coat. TOP COATS Use only top-quality stuff. Follow directions. Use clean cups to mix and don't work in the wind. Call your sources and ask if interior parts were glossy, satin or matt when new -- then decide of you really like shiny new-looking parts that might not go with the rest of the project. (Opinion follows) I like the look of black epoxy primer because it has a sheen to it that is very neutral with it's surroundings. It is easy to work with and makes an excellent top-coat that can always be made-over later. Painting aluminum body Top-coat prep 1. Wash with soap and water first then wipe with acetone or thinner from topcoat. 2. Wet or dry sand (wet is better and faster) all fogged-on paint off with 320 wet-or-dry sand-paper. Hose off with clean water. 3. Dry in the sun. 4. Fill any gouges with bondo or equivalent. (I know, I know... Bondo?? Yes, it is all you need. Easy to work with and will work for you. Don't use that one-step pin-hole filler in a tube -- it shrinks after painting and never seems to dry all the way. If you must fill pin holes use another coat of primer or a heavier primer surfacer). 4. Wet-sand again. Use a lot of water to rinse off. Stand vertically in sun to dry (don't touch). 5. Spray on etching layer of paint/primer. 1 or 2 thin but complete coats is enough. Don't touch. Make sure any bondo is dry before proceeding. 6. Spray on good primer. If you still see pin holes now is the time to fix them -- not when etching primer is on because you will sand through to bare aluminum. 7. Let the primer cure for a day so that, as the solvent in the primer evaporates, any imperfections show up by causing the primer to suck in or appear to shrink as it drys. 8. Now prep for top-coat by wet-sanding with 400 for non body parts or 600 for body parts. Be patient -- parts should be as smooth as this white paper (the surface of your monitor if not reading a hard copy!). All craters, nibs and orange peel should be gone. Note: 600 grit is not the industry standard for top-coat prep because it takes more time. 320 is fast and efficient but when you have a chance look -- really look at so-called show-cars at an auto show and you WILL see the sand scratches. Now look at The Rover (Cornwallis), 600 grit scratches may be visible because of the dark color but they are considerably smaller than those from 320 grit. Use your hand (not a block) and a clean bucket for wet-sanding. A small grain of sand can ruin you. For large, flat panels use a piece of ensolite foam to keep from getting finger marks from too much pressure using the hand alone. Circular or straight motion -- it doesn't matter. Use even pressure. Do every nook and cranny or top-coat will lift because it didn't "key in". 9. Rinse with a lot of water. Use a clean rag to wipe off sanding scum (this stuff kills grass BTW). For the final rinse set the parts up vertically and then let them dry in the sun. Don't touch. Top-coat Dust the entire room before painting and hose down as much as possible just before spraying.. Skip the tack rag - they suck (leave oil marks and residue that paint won't stick to). It's better to wash your hands (no oil) and blow (with mouth) the parts as you wipe lightly over every surface with your hand feeling for grit. This is the only way to tell if any foreign matter is on the part to be painted. Move your hand fast. If parts have sat for three or more days soak a rag with the top-coat paint's solvent and wipe the parts (fast and with low pressure) to revive the painting surface. Follow with hand and blow (??!!) after solvent has evaporated. Make sure solvent doesn't melt the primer as you wipe it. This is also why you remove all cheap primer because solvent WILL melt this stuff making you start over wetsanding (a mess). Note on masking -- Do not do solvent wipe after masking. Use only good 3M masking tape for paintwork-- not home depot stuff. Always mix paint and catalyst first then add thinner after a couple of minutes (waiting for paint/catalyst reaction to take place -- a must for epoxy). You can err for more catalyst and less thinner if you have to. Whenever possible paint parts horizontal. When paint kicks off* (touch some painted surface on masking tape) place parts beyond the vertical to keep falling dust off. Do not place at floor level nor in the wind nor outside in the sun (unless you are getting a run and want to make the paint go off faster). If you are getting a run turn parts frequently to keep a drip from forming. You may have to do this for about 15 minutes. *Paint is kicked off when you can touch it and leave a print without getting any on your hand. Do a mist coat -- they work. If you miss a spot either: 1. Wait 'till the next coat or 2. Zap it, but you may have to spray the whole painted surface over again. Paint while moving quickly and evenly. You will be surprised how good-quality paint flows out as it drys. 3 coats is usually the max before orange peel starts to show. Leave the room and wait. If you get a run don't worry. Let the paint cure, wet-sand 600 grit and paint again. Don't wash or wax for 30 days. If you want to paint an already painted surface where the existing paint is in good condition but the color is not to your liking you can top-coat over it if you do the following... 1. Wash/degrease parts with soap and water. 2. Wipe with acetone or thinner to remove trace residue. 3. Do any body work now. 4. Wet-sand for paint to "key in". 5. Rinse with lots of water. 6. Dry in the sun. 7. Primer (if surface is really good you can skip this). 8. Top coat. The end. Cheers, Peter Whitbeck dafree@aol.com =================== begin another stolen message ============================== Here is how I paint my aluminum parts. I am pretty satisfied with the technique, but of course, would welcome advise or feedback. (I went home at noon and got the exact product names and numbers). -- Take the part off the car -- I try to batch these with enough parts to make it worth the while. This is why it good to have extra parts to repair and then bolt on later. -- Utilize "aircraft stripper" to remove the paint. This is the actual brand name of a paint remover sold at auto paint stores here. It is 90percent methylene chloride and formulated for "..professional use only..". I brush it on and let it set for about 20 minutes. When soaked, I use a wire bush to scrape thru the soft paint. Sometimes you are lucky and can get 2 coats per application, but often it is one coat of stripper per each coat of paint. This stuff will also remove tar and "bondo" plastic filler in the process so I do the back side too to get rid of the tar. "bondo" comes off slowly and takes several passes local to the area of bondo repair. This is a good job for a warm weekend afternoon as you end up getting a little wet in the rinsing process. -- I then heat and beat out any minor dents. The heat is to anneal the metal so that it won't be as hard and brittle for the hammering and straightening process. -- Now, the part is bare aluminum with only minor flecks of paint. I now "tickle" the aluminum part with a sandblaster. The big fenders, etc I do in the driveway. The smaller parts I use a blast cabinet. You are not supposed to sandblast aluminum -- work hardens it and the heat generated by completely removing the paint by blasting will warp the metal. But I only "tickle" the last bit of paint off the stripped aluminum. This also cleans out the areas of aluminum corrosion at this time leaving the clean pitted aluminum. I move around and make sure I don't get any heat buildup. When finished, there is a good rough surface for proper paint adhesion. -- I use some Dupont products to anodize the aluminum. It is Dupont #225S stepa aluminum prefinishing system (cleaner) and Dupont #226S stepb aluminum prefinishing system (conversion coating). The cleaner is a mild acid and the conversion coating contains some salts. You paint this on with a brush, let it set for about 5 minutes and hose it off. This stuff is expensive at $10 per quart and you use more than you'd think you would. At this time, the aluminum part has a light golden glow to it. -- I use a fiberglass filler to fill in the dents left after hammering. "Evercoat Metal 2 Metal aluminum filled metal body repair: polyester resin & hardener" I don't use "bondo" cause it is not as flexible when cured and it is not waterproof. This is normal bodywork, but the part is off the car and on the garage floor. Got to get that bench cleaned off. I then use "featherfill catalyzed polyester primer surfacer by evercoat" to fill the minor sanding marks and pinholes. This stuff sprays on thick and wet sands off. -- Maybe another pass at the anodizing step to get the parts that were hit with sanding paper. -- Next, I hang the part over a line I have stretched between the walls of the garage. A couple of coats of #616s Dupont Variprime self etching primer (enamel) and #616s variprime converter. This primer is two-part and drys smooth. The self etching is described as useful for painting aluminum and galvanized or zinc parts. I figure the self-etching part associated with the paint and the aluminum anodizing is a double wammy and should produce a tight paint with no corrosion under the paint. -- Finally, a top coat of Dupont Centari Acrylic enamel using 8022s mid termperature reducer. I put on three thick coats. -- Let it cure for awhile and be very careful when bolting it back on. It is frustrating to slip a wrench and introduce a scratch. The parts really look good with a complete coat of color. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- =================== begin yet another stolen message ========================== Several people have asked questions about painting Birmabright as of late, so I thought I'd pass along a few part numbers and whatnot. Most all of the part numbers are DuPont; any DuPont paint jobber should be able to mix up Rover colors in single quart cans. (If anyone has any other #'s, pass them along.) Bronze green 38500 Mid grey 38501 Sand 38502 Marine blue 38503 Pastel green 38504 Limestone 38505 Poppy red 38506 Burnt grey 38508 Davos white 38514 Mexican brown 38519 Cameron green 38520 Almond yellow 38521 Sand ACF/004 or 26291 Almond yellow 38521 "camel yellow" SandGlow, it is also a old Jaguar color For "DuLux" alkyd enamle, append a "D" to the paint color number. Add an "L" of laquer, or "A" for Centari acrylic enamel. Other part numbers: Dulux hardener 77s Aluminum cleaner 225s Aluminum conversion coating 226s "Variprime" two-part primer 615s Engine enamel "Detroit Diesel Alpine Green" #225 (made by Tempo) Automotive paints are quite sensitive to temperatures: use the following thinners/retarders. If you must paint at higher temps, add an anti-wrinkle agent: DuLux Thinner Temp Range Centari Thinner Temp Range #8508 below 65 F #8034 below 70 F #3812 65-75 F #8022 70-85 F #3864 70-80 F #8093 above 85 F #8522 above 80 F The DuLux cannot be clear-coated, though the Centari can be protected in this fashion. DuLux can be mixed for brush application (like for roofs) rather than spray applicatio, though. DuPont "Corlar" two-part epoxy is another primer alternative. As it is intended for aircraft, it is only available in gallon cans, and in grey. Better living through chemistry... ================== end of stolen stuff========================================= R, -bg ------------------------------------ From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:09:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Peat's elect Tricks (was Trouble in Pair-O-Dice (Epilog)) Of course he is welcome as long as he promises to bring his tools and fix Rovers on outings :>) (And share his knowledge) On Aug 12, 10:47am, Bob Peterson wrote: > Subject: Re: Peat's elect Tricks (was Trouble in Pair-O-Dice (Epilog)) > >One of the frustrating things I found in dealing with BMC (or any > >other dealership for that matter) is that you can't talk to the guys that > >are actually doing the work and presumably understand it. You can only > >talk to the *service advisor* and most often they seem to be either > >uninformed, too busy to discuss it or evasive. > > Greetings - > > So far, I have not experienced any significant degree of evasion at San > Jose Land Rover. Every time Algie has been in there for repair or > scheduled service, I've been allowed, quite literally, to stay with the > vehicle and consult "live" with the service techs. Yep, they have those > "INSURANCE REGULATIONS REQUIRE US TO..." signs that supposedly keep you out > from under the hood (or even within the garage area) while they're working, > but I've never been chased away. > > Quite the opposite in fact. One service tech at SJLR, a guy named Mark, > was excited to hear about all of this internet stuff and wants to know how > he can get on the CSO and LRO lists, plus our little Mendo club. > > Does anyone have any problem with having a dealer service guy on our Mendo > net? Would his presence inspire or constrict the free expression of > opinions, particularly about SJLR? Is this even an issue? Are there > already service guys on our net? > > Hey, the way I see it, I have about a year and a half more of LRNA sucking > in all of those infamous warranty repair costs before the tables turn and > they get to start showing repair and parts revenue to make up for 3 years > of warranty cash flow in the opposite direction. At that point, we'll need > all of the friends we can get in the LR service biz. > > I'll send Ben the e-mail address for Mark if no one is particularly > concerned by any potential breech of propriety. > > Bob Peterson > '95 5-speed Disco, "Algernon" > > >-- End of excerpt from Bob Peterson -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 ------------------------------------ From: "James D. Howard II" Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:44:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Portland On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > In message <199608121652.JAA17631@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write: > > To anyone who has not received a registration packet, I made half a dozen > > copies of the reg form, let me know if you need one. I am sending mine in > > today. > > What about those of us w/o Rovers? Pay an entrance fee at the gate? > > Ben > Last Year I just paid for the dinner at the gate. Otherwise, I was always in going in and out in someone elses car. ------------------------------------ From: Benjamin Allan Smith Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:40:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Peat's elect Tricks (was Trouble in Pair-O-Dice (Epilog)) In message <199608121747.KAA20944@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you write: > Does anyone have any problem with having a dealer service guy on our Mendo > net? Would his presence inspire or constrict the free expression of > opinions, particularly about SJLR? Is this even an issue? Are there > already service guys on our net? We already have one on right now. The more the merrier in my book. > I'll send Ben the e-mail address for Mark if no one is particularly > concerned by any potential breech of propriety. The way I add people is that they email me and ask to be put on. So send my email address (bens@ridgecrest.ca.us) to him. I don't want to get into the situation of adding someone who didn't want to be added. Ben ------------------------------------ From: bronson@diamondmm.com (Scott Bronson) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:20:26 -0800 Subject: Portland, Fuel Pumps, Hunter not-legit, etc. I just got back from vacation, and I'm trying to catch up on all the good stuff that I missed. Did the Ft. Hunter Not-legit happen? If so, I want to hear what happened. I want to drive to the Portland Leak, but I don't know what I'll be doing Wednesday, much less in September (going on hour 6 and haven't been laid off yet :). I just want to camp there; my RR is certainly not of show quality. I guess I still need to register? Can I pay at the gate? And, I definitely want to caravan. Kevin Kelly wrote: >To change the fuel pump on a pre '91 RR (like Scott and I have) you have to >take the entire fuel tank out (not an easy job on the trail) Urp, you're right. With all the expedition RRs out there, I'm sure somebody has already solved this one. I like the idea of an inline fuel pump. I'll put a bit of thought into this one. > >>I'm bumping the GPS to a higher priority as >>well. Volume discounts? > >After getting hopelessly lost in the past I make it a point to always know >where I am when driving, hiking, or mountain biking . I would love to have a >GPS, but there are other electronic toys that I want more. I amazed how well >a compass and topographical map allows me to figure out where I am going. > The USGS in Menlo Park is a great place to get maps. Is good when you can see where you are and you don't make mistakes ("Uh oh, THAT mountain is L-shaped too!"). Is not so good at night, in weather or foilage, or when you're stuck on a small valley floor. Although, at the moment I'd rather climb a mountain than buy a GPS... Of course, it helps to bring the best, most flexible recovery and navigation tool available: the spare lazy bugger. In fact, bring as many as possible. - Scott ------------------------------------ From: GElam30092@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:10:05 -0400 Subject: Cested Butte Well, we're back from Crested Butte. And what an adventure it was. Here is the Reader's Digest version from my viewpoint: Tuesday, Aug. 6: Met Dave Brown and son north of Phoenix. Introduce Dave to my family and off we went. Got about 10 miles and Dave's RR over-heated. Add water.. continued on. 5 miles later, Dave's RR over-heats again. Add more water, stir, no shaking. 5 miles later, same results. Dave tells us to go on. He has parts, tools, CB radio, etc. I hate to leave him but my wife has a situation at work that may cause her to fly from Durango at 6:00 AM the next morning. We continue on and make it to the Red Lion in Durango at 6:30 PM. If you've never been to Durango, it is yuppie heaven in the summer time. The motel turned away at least 6 people while we were getting our rooms. Oh, I had a flat that day. I posted a note asking for assistance in getting another tire to Crested Butte. Wed., Aug. 7: We're on the road by 8:00 AM. With stops in Ouray, Gunnison and to make various phone calls, we make it to Crested Butte around 3 PM. One of those calls was to the LR dealer in Co. Springs. Terry Mitchell is bring a tire to the motel. And, there were 2-3 other calls from folks who volunteered to stop by and pick it up. Thank you to all who took time to make the phone call. Immediately, we start meeting people from the 'net. Bob Watson, Rob Dennis, Rob Modica, Mark Ritter, to name a few. There were quite a few interesting vehicles. We signed in, got our info package and started unloading the vehicles. That night was mostly standing outside talking to folks as they arrived. One of the more interesting people was Nick from LROI who was there to cover the event. What a nice guy... Thursday:, Aug. 8: I missed the sign-up sheets for the various rides so by the time I start to sign-up, the only ride left is the easy Lake Irwin ride. The leader is Doug Marbough who is truly a man with more patience than I have. You know how every group outing has someone who has "been there, done that"? This ride had several who were bored with the ride. We were above Lake Irwin at the roads' end. About 1/3 of a mile back, the road forked off towards the crest. A couple of these guys decided to have a go at it against Doug's better judgment. They got to a berm designed to keep people and vehicles out and both of them promptly got stuck. Doug got to go pull them out. The best part was watching all of the people from the trip walk to the top of a small crest to watch Doug yank them out. When Doug got back to where we were, the shake of his head said it all. Doug also let the group sort of dictate the route. It was supposed to be an easy trip. Well, we got to Lake Irwin early and most wanted to keep going. Doug made sure that no one had a problem with that. We kept going over essentially an easy route. Later, someone said that there were 4 vehicles reporting that this was the most challenging off-road trip they had ever done. There was one 4.6 RR owner who was upset because he thought he had scratched it... but it was only lines in the dust. That night was the welcome party.... we watched some videos of some of the other trips, ate, got our t-shirts (nice job Brit-Pac), etc. Friday, Aug. 9: We were up early for breakfast and the driver's meeting. I noticed Nick and Rob Modica talking off to the side so I walked over. There was a group heading off on another route and I decided to join them. I think there were between 12-15 vehicles led by Jim and Mary (???) from Brekenridge CO. We stopped in town to gas up and let some of the others grad food. This was advertised as an all-day trip. We headed towards Tin Cup and the pass. What a beautiful site. The pass has two routes with one being a by-pass. Most of the Series vehicles and Defenders took the hard route. The best part was watching Matt Tanner take his Series III up the pass making it look extremely easy. That's what lockers will do for you! The worst part was watching a Defender attempt it without locking his center diff. I don't think he locked it all day and it made even the easy parts difficult. At the top of the pass, we paused for lunch. Within 10 minutes, the sun disappeared and it started snowing. Or hailing.... I'm not sure what to call it. It looked like small white pellets which was composed of what appeared to be compacted snow. There was also a lot of thunder. We continued the trip to St. Elmo's (home of the chipmunk crossing and quite a few humming birds). Nice little town. From there, we started towards a mountain called Antero. What a climb! We crossed out of the tree line climbing ever higher. We would occasionally meet other off-roaders who were kind enough to stop and let our vehicles through. Since most of the areas where barely large enough for one vehicle, these acts were appreciated. I did notice, however, that a few of them weren't happy!! Must have been the vehicles that they were in! As we neared a wide area, a Jeep Wrangler got impatient and passed us on the side... no tread lightly here. As we neared the top, we watched him take several attempts at a difficult section and then give up. We passed him as we all successfully passed the section that he gave up on. Up at the top, my GPS was reading 13,900 feet. It was very cold.... Nick took this opportunity to take pictures. We got all of the vehicles in a semi-circle, lights on, people in front and Nick took more pictures. In fact, through the entire trip, Nick was seem running up and down taking pictures... Several people stated that this trip was for his benefit and that there would probably be an article in the Oct or Nov LROI issue. On the way off of the mountain, I had the passenger window down. I heard a "piss/piss" on every tire rotation. Guess what? Another f*&^%n flat. I radioed up to the leader and gave them the news. We were on a flat portion so I jacked the tire up while one person started removing the spare and another started on the tire. We were back running in less than 5 minutes. Richard Petty wouldn't have been proud but the trip leader was surprised when he radioed back asking how much longer we would be and I answered "turn around and look... we're coming up on you now." By now, it was nearing 4 or 5 PM. The route back would cover the same route up. I was worried that my wife would be worried. I had set her expectations to be back at 5 PM. We stopped in St. Elmo again but the only phone was a radio-telephone for emergencies. I borrowed Mary's cell-phone but, as expected, there was no service. By the time we got back to the motel, it was 9:30 PM. My wife had other worries as it turns out. My daughter, 7 years old, 48 lbs, was bitten by a 90-lb Rotweiler (sp?)when they entered a local business. Luckily, as the dog lunged for Robyn, my wife grabbed her and pulled. The dog only nicked her on the sweatshirt but did manage a couple of nice scratches on her arm. Off to the doctor they went. The dog did have rabies shots so that's not a concern. As it turns out, the dog belonged to an employee of the store. The employee was arrested for the viscous animal attack. Robyn is OK but was very, very upset as was my wife. They had gotten 2 feet inside the store when a smaller dog jumped up on Robyn. They were trying to get this dog off when the other one came running from the upstairs and bit Robyn. Commentary: why the hell are people bringing their dogs to a retail establishment? My wife and daughter are now more scared of dogs than they should be. Look, I love animals. We had dogs as pets growing up. But we never allowed them to attack anyone. They were kept under control or on a leash. Is there a lawer in the house? Saturday, August 10: No off-roading because of the length of the Friday ride and the events with my daughter. We go and get my other flat fixed.. it was a hole in the tread not the sidewall. I decided to visit the store where Robyn was attacked. I walked in and the dog was still there but behind a make-shift fence that a beagle could get through. I found the owner of the store in another store. It was all I could do to maintain self-control. I told him I thought his employee shouldn't have the dog there. He was surprised the dog was still there too. When we got back to the motel, I called the local police to (1) give him my wife's statement and (2) to inform him the dog was still in the store not under control...IMO. He was shocked.... he had been in the store that morning and hadn't seen the dog. We talked and he headed back over to visit the store. The policeman said that he had 4 dog bites in the last two days. The final event was the Saturday night party at a local ranch. There was good music, great food and a lot of friendly conversation. About 7:30 PM, we heard horns blowing and looked up to see a contingent of LR's coming down the road. Seems that they had tackled a particularly tough pass between the Crested Butte area and Aspen and had opened it. I'll let one of them tell that story... they desire the glory! There were quite a few prizes given away that night. I won a couple of videos from Bill Burke and a small Superwinch strap bag. Rob Dennis was stopped by the local police that night for speeding... in a Land Rover... in a 15-mph zone! He said he didn't get a ticket! People I particularly enjoyed meeting: Matt Tanner, Bill Burke, Greg from Safari Gard, Nick from LROI, Mark Ritter, Terry Mitchell, Jim & Mary, Bob Watson and son, Dave Porter, Rob Dennis, Greg who ran the event, Doug Marbough, Gus, and the list goes on and on. Best parts of the event: The time I spent with Rob and Ann Modica from Tuscon....they're great people, meeting other people who I've only "talked" to on these lists (A t-shirt is a great idea... I'll take two XL), the comments that I received from my front receiver/steering protector combination. Worst parts: the drive home (600+ miles on Sunday), a flat on the way up, another flat on Mt. Antero ... got it fixed and even drove home on it!, my daughter's dog bite, my wife's work situation (she didn't leave but spent 3-4 hours per day managing the crisis), coming home to 112 degrees. Best Defender: Bill Burke, Jim & Mary. Best Series: no way... they're all great but I did like Rob's PU and Matt's. Worst Luck: one of the CA guys who was in Moab, broke an engine mount and arrived in CO with a hi-lift and a strap across the fenders holding the engine in place. Best Discovery: Mark Ritter's. He has made some superb and inexpensive mods....IMHO. Here's looking forward to next year! Gerry Elam Phx AZ ------------------------------------ From: bronson@diamondmm.com (Scott Bronson) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:12:00 -0800 Subject: Re: portland ramblings >also sat afternoon is the valve cover competition--- mount >wheels under a british car valve cover and race it down a slope. (Since I >have just reminded myself of this, I think I need to get a cover so Alex >and I can build one.) I can't quite picture this. Do contestants bring pre-assembled valve cover vehicles? Think they'd allow a Mustang valve cover to pass tech inspection? - Scott ------------------------------------ From: TeriAnn Wakeman Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 17:02:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Portland meet > >Teriann and others in the know, > >Do we have to register/send money now in order to attend the Portland >meet? Any plans afoot for a leisurely convoy up the coast? And, perhaps >most importantly, when exactly is it anyway? Fri eve, Sat, Sun on the labour day weekend. Best to arrive Friday early evening with plenty of time to set camp before dark. You do NOT want to miss the Fri and Sat evening camp site chats! You should bring some microbrewery stuff to share during the evening chats. You can enter early or pay at the field. I have done both. There are trinkets you get if you register early and if you do not preregister and are off field, you get placed on the field late on Sat. If you are camping & came in Friday eve, the trinkets and your picture in the catalogue (I think its too late for that now) are the only bennies from early registration. John Hess & I are both planning to leave early in the week and take a leasurely trip up the coast (warning, I stop for photo ops & antique stores). We have not talked yet about convoying up, but I like company. I'm not very fast though with a 4 cyl 109. > >And Teriann, while I've got your attention: Bruce has your water tank! OH YEAHHHHH!!!!!!!! An oppertunity to cut the last holes in the body and if I can get it installed in time I can leave the blue plastic water cans behind!! Can I do this all and get the hard top back on the car before the end of the month? I have given up on the new paint job and complete rewiring of the car before Portland, so the Green Rover will be mostly bare aluminum :*( Can you give Bruce my phone numbers? Home 408 688-8169, work 408 974-2344 I plan to have the 109 in at work next Monday and Friday and am willing to make a special trip in for the tank Super! > > >Stephanie TeriAnn Wakeman CPU Compatability Evangelist Apple Computer, Inc. twakeman@apple.com "celebrating 10 years connected to the internet" ------------------------------------ From: TeriAnn Wakeman Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 17:04:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Portland meet >> >> Note to Bay area rovers: who is going, and do you want to convoy/caravan up? >> >I'am planning to go, haven't registered (yet), convoy/caravan sounds good. I always make atrip of the trip to Portland. I will be doing this again this year. I plan to go up 101 then stay to the Oregon coast. I have been thinking about the lost coast and the Oregon dunes park. To do the beach you need a off road sticker, flag at least 9 feet off the ground, seat belts & fire extinguisher. You get the sticker at the Oregon DMV or the RV place at the North end. The RV place also has air. I also plan to stop at many senic spots to take pictures. When I leave depends upon when I get the top back on my Land Rover. My dog would appriciate a roof as would my camera. I may leave Monday or Tuesday and make a week trip of going to Oregon along the senic route. Company is always welcome & maybe I could meet up with some A types in Oregon like last year. TeriAnn Wakeman CPU Compatability Evangelist Apple Computer, Inc. twakeman@apple.com "celebrating 10 years connected to the internet" ------------------------------------ From: TeriAnn Wakeman Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 17:03:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret (Yes! real LR content!) >>Last night the lady Diane, (still lovely at 8.3 months of pregnancy) >>received her seemingly weekly installment of the Victoria's Secret catalog. >>It was immediately clear that THIS issue (Fall '96 Vol. 2, No. 1) was >>different than all of the others: >> >> 1) Claudia Schiffer was on the cover (and a few pages inside) >> >> 2) Some of the models were lounging on Discos (!) >> >> >>So not only is the Disco now in vogue for selling Casio GPS color systems >>to ruggedized Japanese consumers, the Disco has now been drafted into the >>constant struggle to clothe the world in the flimsiest of undergarmets. I saw a Discovery in Boston last week parked in front of the South Market that was advertising men's underwear. TeriAnn Wakeman CPU Compatability Evangelist Apple Computer, Inc. twakeman@apple.com "celebrating 10 years connected to the internet" ------------------------------------ From: exemplar!dickins@uu.psi.com (Scott Dickinson) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:24:51 -0700 Subject: Gerry cans It seems that Charlotte runs low on gas when we take her off roading into the remote regions of CA. The tank range does not allow for filling her up at the last gas station available, driving to some remote off-road camp, and then off-roading for a couple of days. Usually Char. runs low on gas on Saturday, and only have enough left on Sunday am. to make it to the nearest station on our return home. Short of lobbying the State of CA to put up gas stations in remote regions, ghost towns, and mountain villages, we need to extend her tank range. We figure 10 gallons would make the difference. 2 Gerry cans would do the job... but the question is what is the best place to locate them on a Range Rover? Dave thinks maybe he could mount the Gerry can ports on the brush-guard and make her into a suicide rig? (This might amuse you Defender guys :) Actually he wants to strap them on a wire cage roof rack (flat)? I was thinking of welding up a plate/hitch mount for 2 cans and strapping them onto the plate. Any suggestions? We are also looking for a local supplier of steel Gerry cans in CA. They can be had in England for #12 stirling, but then getting them over here is not so cheap or easy. Anyone know where they can be bought? BTW: I tested Bob Peterson's Rover burrito recipe this weekend on the Los Padres Forrest "roads." Escoffier! I want to try grilling some steaks on the maifold next time... hell, the grill- groves are already there! "Rover Rib-eyes" comming up :)' "I wanna Disco" Scott Driver, white '91 RR GDE "Charlotte" owned by Lord Townsend... ------------------------------------ From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 19:00:10 PDT Subject: LRofSJ MechanoGeek On Mon, 12 Aug 96 10:45:49 PDT you wrote: >Does anyone have any problem with having a dealer service guy on our Mendo >net? Would his presence inspire or constrict the free expression of >opinions, particularly about SJLR? Is this even an issue? Are there >already service guys on our net? I think this would be great. I know I'm certainly not ashamed of anything I have said about LRofSJ and it wouldn't quiet me up if someone from there was on this list. It would be great to be able to pick his brain when needed. Alan DuBoff aland@ibm.net Moore 24 #77 - "Moorigami" ------------------------------------ From: Morgan Hannaford Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Pacific Northwest Team Trophy Challenge (part 2) Looks like this will be more than 3 parts. Next installment will see Saturday afternoon, followed by the Sunday morning rallye. 4 parts Outline of Saturday morning (part 2) 1) drivers meeting 2) head out 3) the root of all evil 4) BIG RED 5) Dis-orienteering The last installment was aimed at letting the casual reader know that some of the most impressive and well equipped 4 wheel drive trail vehicles in the Pacific Northwest had convened at Lee's Camp Oregon to win the 2nd annual Team Trophy Challenge. Mendo_Recce members Bruce Bonar and Morgan Hannaford in Spot, the winch and double ARB equipped white D90 teamed up with Jeremy Bartlett and Eric Cope in Sampson, the receiver hitch-mount winch equipped green D90. Both of the vehicles were field proven and the drivers and navigators have tackled some of the most rugged terrain in Land-Rovers over the past year. At least one formal practice session this spring found us picking our way down the Fordyce trail, practicing our ability to use hand signals and winches when necessary. We were most confident that we were going to have a whole lot of fun. DRIVERS MEETING 17 teams gathered around the headquarters tent for the drivers meeting. Doug Shipman explained that the challengers will be divided up into 2 groups: one to do the east route, the other to do the west route. We were assigned a CB channel based 2x your team number; we were team 5 so we used channel 10. The event was advertised as a rallye style competition, where teams leave 5 minutes apart. The order of departure was randomly selected. We were the first team out in the east route. Bruce and Morgan collected the route directions from Doug Shipman. The directions consisted of vague directions, based on landmarks and mileage. Also included in the east route packet was a poor copy of a topo map. HEAD OUT We snapped a team photo and we were off. Because we only had one copy of the directions Bruce and Morgan navigated ahead, and radioed Jeremy and Eric our route. We decided our best strategy was to remain in visual contact the whole time, so we would not get separated. Along the route we were supposed to look for 5 buckets that contained trinkets. Each trinket was worth 20 points, proving that we followed the proper route. At a point we were told that a passenger(s) would have to exit the vehicle and orienteer by compass to a point on the map to punch our scorecard for 50 points. Finally, some unkown special tasks awaited us at the end of the east route. This was a points only course, 20 miles long, where finishing fast was not important. However, we later learned that finishing early has a big advantage. Following the directions we pulled off the highway 6 miles east of the camp and climbed up a lovely forested track. The course seemed to alternate between narrow 4x4 trails and logging roads. A light sprinkling of rain a few days earlier kept the dust down and made traction control a little more interesting. One of our first directions was to stay left, then turn right at a stump..... sure enough, just ahead I saw one of the course marshalls sitting on the right fork of a Y in the road where a stump proudly sat. But there was a large sign on the stump that said "NOT A STUMP". Morgan radioed to Sampson that this was "not a stump" and we turned left. Within 20 yards we came to another Y marked by a stump and Morgan exclaimed on the radio that "this IS a stump". Man, Doug must be hip to our "not-a-lingo, from our not-a-club". THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL We joined a power-line access road and looked for our next direction, a right turn. The right turn appeared, it was a steep downhill grade. Other than a root ball/stump that protruded from the left side of the trail bank this appeared a cakewalk. Bruce piloted Spot against the steep right bank and just squeezed past the root wad. Jeremy tried the same maneuver, however Sampson slid off and directly into the root wad! The damage was minimal; the left wing had a fist sized dent in it, and the side skirt was scraped. However, Sampson was stopped pinned to the root wad. Any movement would surely cause more damage. We gathered an axe and a come-along from Spot and made a plan. Eric and Jeremy attempted to chop off as much of the root wad as possible, while Morgan and Bruce rigged up the come-along with some tow straps to move the 4 foot diameter wad (attached to a 2 foot diameter stump). After several iterations, we managed to pick up the root end enough for Sampson to slip by. We left the root ball where we found it (having only been able to tip it up) and continued on. Leaving the trail we took a left and soon found that we had already mis-interpreted the directions. After about 10 minutes of scouting and confusion we decided to retrace our steps to the root wad hill. At the top of the root wad hill we saw the 2 door Range Rover. But it was going up the hill, trying to get past the root wad. We began to worry that we really screwed up so Jeremy and Eric went for a recce while Bruce and Morgan scouted the trail to the right. At the top was a most miserable sight. Although the Range Rover was trying to go back up, a large line of vehicles were at the top of the hill attempting to get down. Apparently the root wad had made its way further into the middle of the road. By the way the Range Rover bodywork appeared from the morning meeting, the driver/owner obviously did not care about scraping along a spiney root ball. If the encounter caused any damage we couldn't tell. This thing was beat-up! The L-R 88" IIA partner of the Range Rover was not so eager to damage his vehicle. He had attempted to winch the whole wad out of the way, but proceeded to arc and seriously burn out his winch. It was a 2 speed Tenson winch. He must have used the wrong speed. Apparently the R-R was going back up to help his buddy, but as Jeremy and Eric left the bloody scene the line of Jeeps and Land Cruisers was getting larger and more testy. A CJ-5 was about to tow the wad out with horsepower, piss and vinegar. Bruce and Morgan had found the proper trail and Sampson was soon following Spot down the powerline road again. It seems that the root wad had held up the traffic behind us while we were getting unlost. We cruised along the lines and ended up back on a motorcycle trail where we met up with the same course marshall seen earlier. To our right was the intended course, a snotty, rutted uphill section. Somehow the 2 door Range Rover and IIA 88" team were already and the bottom. The Range Rover was already taking runs at the hill, but kept losing traction. It was obvious to us and the marshall that this team had bypassed a large section of the route to get ahead of us. They were preparing to winch. So, we politely asked them if we could get by since we were confident that we could make it up quickly. They agreed, and Spot made an attempt, lost momentum half way up but punching in the rear ARB made it to the top. Frustrated the IIA partner of the Range Rover made a quick attempt and crawled all the way up without issue. Jeremy gave it a shot in Sampson, but got stuck in the rut. We had planned our recovery move the night before, tow straps were already in place, and all we had to do was back Spot down to neatly tug Sampson to the top. On the way out Eric spotted the first bucket and stopped to pull out a cut piece of 1/4" chain link. BIG RED On the way out we noticed that the team immediately behind us was a Big Red full sized Ford Bronco, obviously lifted and with BIG tiress. His partner was a CJ-5 similarly modified.....and they were really irked at the Range Rover teams root incident and now traction problems - so they just wailed up the hill using speed and horsepower. They were soon right behind us, eager to pass. Now we know that this was not a race, but we figured out already that the lead team has an advantage of not having to wait at the difficult hills for others to get up, and that as vehicles went through, the route became more slick because of the constant drizzle that was coming down. So, our competition spirit told us not to let them past. The trail looped back around to the bottom of the mud hill, where the marshall was standing. Morgan got mixed up and missed a crucial left turn. Sampson followed, and the Big Red Bronco made the designated left. Big Red's partner was way behind and so we were able to back up and take the turn before the CJ could catch up. We travelled like this for awhile, up a steep and rocky trail. Once in awhile Big Red's navigator would look back to assess the situation. We were right on his rear bumpter and Morgan would return an enthusiastic wave and big smile. Big Red's problem was only one copy of course instructions was given and because the CJ was driving slower than us, they could get separated. A couple of tricky sections came up, with slippery wet boulders. Big Red had some problems, but managed to horsepower out of them. We used Spot's ARB lockers in the appropriate places and when Sampson got in trouble a quick tug always kept the pace moving. This steep trail crossed the main road, which switched back, 3 times. DIS-ORIENTEERING At the top of the hill 5 roads converged. We were to use the map and a compass to navigate on foot up a road to find the card punch. Looking at the map it appeared that the proper route was up a blocked road to the lookout peak about 1/2 of a mile away. We noticed that the main road circled around the lookout peak, and a small trail met up with this road again. Our plan was to have Eric and Morgan go up the road, find the card punch, and go down the other road and meet up with the vehicles. If we could pull this off we could get ahead of Big Red, who seemed to be taking a short lunch break. Morgan, not wanting to waste the moment trotted over to ask if they had any Grey Poupon. They didn't. Eric and Morgan then began to jog up the road to the top. About halfway up Morgan stopped in his tracks........had a exasperated look on his face and promptly exclaimed "SHIT, I FORGOT THE F#*%ING SCORE CARD TO PUNCH"!!!. We acted fast, Eric continued up to find the card punch, while Mo sprinted back down the hill to see if Spot and Sampson were still present. The vehicles had already gone. Mo then did his best Jesse Owens impression and ran the whole 1/2 mile + to meet up with Eric. Eric had found the card punch, and Mo agreed to run down the back road to get the card from Spot. About this time Jeremy and Bruce were sitting at the proper place in the trail. They were trying to recall if Mo or Eric had taken the card with them. They were surveying the vehicles for the card when Mo burst through the trees, sliding down the muddy trail, panting, and shouting "YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT I FORGOT!!!!". Mo quickly grabbed the card and ran back up the road. At the top Eric heard the whistle that Mo was frantically blowing an met him part way down the hill. Eric finished the relay to the top, where the card punch was located. As Mo lay in the wet weeds another pair of competitors came walking up the road. Mo sat up and proceeded to explain that he could not find the punch after looking all over the hill. As the pair stood looking puzzled Eric came trotting merrily down the hill. Without skipping a beat, Mo said "I think I'll follow this guy, he looks like he knows where he is going". At the bottom of the hill Jeremy and Bruce waited, wondering what was happening. Doug Shipman drove by and asked how everything was going. Bruce explained, and Doug suggested that nothing in the rules says you can't drive up the back road to the hill top. "Hmmm" Bruce, muttered. Then he hopped into Spot and powered up the muddy hill that Morgan huffed up earlier. He met Eric and Mo on the road, but had to continue to the top to turn around. At the bottom the winners of last years event sat waiting for their team mates. They didn't seem to have any Grey Poupon either, so we powered down the road as soon as Bruce returned. Fortunately we recovered, but WHAT A FIASCO!!!! Next installment: Saturday afternoon. 1) A winching we will go part 1 & 2 2) Special tasks 3) Back to camp, back out to west route 4) 90 squeeze 5) Lost???? We're not lost!!! 6) Mechanical task 7) Deliverance task - orienteering again 8) evening fun, ready for Sunday ------------------------------------ From: "John C. White, III" Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret (Yes! real LR content!) So, did the Disco look dashing in his Joe Boxers? Cheers! John At 17:03 12.08.96 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >>>Last night the lady Diane, (still lovely at 8.3 months of pregnancy) >>>received her seemingly weekly installment of the Victoria's Secret catalog. >>>It was immediately clear that THIS issue (Fall '96 Vol. 2, No. 1) was >>>different than all of the others: >>> >>> 1) Claudia Schiffer was on the cover (and a few pages inside) >>> >>> 2) Some of the models were lounging on Discos (!) >>> >>> >>>So not only is the Disco now in vogue for selling Casio GPS color systems >>>to ruggedized Japanese consumers, the Disco has now been drafted into the >>>constant struggle to clothe the world in the flimsiest of undergarmets. > >I saw a Discovery in Boston last week parked in front of the South Market >that was advertising men's underwear. > > >TeriAnn Wakeman >CPU Compatability Evangelist >Apple Computer, Inc. > >twakeman@apple.com "celebrating 10 years connected to the internet" > > > ------------------------------------ From: "Christopher H. Dow" Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:59:26 -0700 Subject: Re: LRofSJ MechanoGeek That sounds good to me, too. Especially if some of it gets back to them. Maybe I've been snowed, but I think they really want to be a good dealership. They've followed up with me each time I've had my Disco in there...so why not? C At 07:00 PM 8/12/96 PDT, you wrote: >On Mon, 12 Aug 96 10:45:49 PDT you wrote: > >>Does anyone have any problem with having a dealer service guy on our Mendo >>net? Would his presence inspire or constrict the free expression of >>opinions, particularly about SJLR? Is this even an issue? Are there >>already service guys on our net? > >I think this would be great. I know I'm certainly not ashamed of >anything I have said about LRofSJ and it wouldn't quiet me up if >someone from there was on this list. > >It would be great to be able to pick his brain when needed. > >Alan DuBoff >aland@ibm.net >Moore 24 #77 - "Moorigami" > > ------------------------------------ From: KKelly6788@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 01:52:56 -0400 Subject: Valve Cover Racing >Saturday is field meet day proper with the bbq in >the evening. also sat afternoon is the valve cover competition--- mount >wheels under a british car valve cover and race it down a slope. (Since I >have just reminded myself of this, I think I need to get a cover so Alex >and I can build one.) While I was at SDSU a good friend changed his major from business to industrial arts. I was close to doing the same thing when he came over one night before I had an big accounting test and asked to use my garage to make a valve cover race car for one of his classes!! I was up in my room studying away as I heard him grind away at the valve cover, I first smelled fiberglass as he made a nose cone for it and then bondo as he used it to fill all the holes in the metal. The next day when I got home he had just painted it and it looked great (for a valve cover race car). We decided to cannibalize an old skateboard to make the running gear (I'll skip the trial error) but we ended up using three very thin skateboard wheels,(we cut them so they were just wider than the bearings with my worm drive saw) on solid axles. We thoroughly cleaned the bearings used sewing machine oil as lubricant. If Honda will count as a British car valve cover (doesn’t Honda still own part of Rover??) Owen still has this thing hanging in his garage in the Santa Cruz mountains. It will be great if "team mendo" can have another good showing in Land Rover related competition in the Pacific Northwest. Kevin Kelly ------------------------------------ End of Digest