From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 1 9:04:05 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 9:04:05 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Land Rovers in tv drama Tod, Not guilty milord.Twasnt me who said it wasnt worth cataloging Land Rovers on film.Honest! Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 1 9:15:40 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 9:15:40 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: LRs on Wings of Eagles Yep,I've read the book (yawn).Range Rovers,definitely.There a picture of them.The way they got them was clever.A loyal Iranian went round with stickers finding parked Range Rovers.The stickers read"If you want to sell this,telephone this number". They were eventually left as "gifts" for the border guards.Wonder how one becomes a border guard?.... Cheers Mike Rooth From ShaunC8958@aol.com Wed Feb 1 08:17:48 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 08:17:48 -0500 From: ShaunC8958@aol.com Subject: Wings of Eagles I didn't read the Ken Follett book--I heard it on tape several years ago during a long drive somewhere. I distinctly remember it was Range Rovers, not Land Rovers, that Perot chose for their trek across the desert. I seem to recall they bought five for $20,000 a piece (this was nearly 20 years ago) because they were "the best four-wheel-drives in the world." I rembered that line when I had the chance to buy mine last year... Shaun Carrigan '88 RR From "David McKain" Wed Feb 1 09:03:06 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:03:06 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: New Subscriber Greetings and Salutations I recently entered the world of Land Rover ownership by purchasing a '66 Series IIA 88" hard top. Currently, the vehicle is reduced to bits and pieces for body/frame work. A few of my co-workers are current and former LR owners from South Africa and have been a great help in fixing the engine, gearbox, and in general figuring out where everything goes. Initial faults with the vehicle were a broken cam follower (the last engine rebuilder didn't check to see if the pushrod was squarely in the follower socket), broken bushing in gearbox (kept jumping out of 3rd gear when engine braking), various electrical problems and rust. Because the last owner put a camo black-green paint job on (by hand) I was forced to strip the body down to bare aluminum and treat body surfaces with dupont 225S and 226S before priming. The local Napa store mixed a light green and dark green from color charts from '66. The dark green (Arden Green) is a bit darker than I had thought but looks nice. I'm still staring at a major cash setback on all of the body seals and window channels (all that was left was a little felt and a lot of green fungus and moss). I have two major questions: 1) The exhaust doughnut is partially eaten away although the rest of the exhaust is fairly new. Is there any way of fixing/replacing the doughnut for less than the cost of a new front exhaust piece ($55-60 US) and 2) My insurance agency will not give comprehensive coverage for my LR. When I finish the car after putting in hundreds of hours and a load of cash, I'd like to know how much the guy in the BMW (ha, ha) talking on is car phone when he broadsided me will have to cough up to fix/replace the vehicle (Officer, I think my neck hurts : translation - I didn't ever think I could afford that new Defender 90 I had my eyes on until now). In closing, I'd like to say that it's nice to know that if I run into any difficulties along the way that there is a place like this where I can get much needed information. From "David McKain" Wed Feb 1 09:36:39 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:36:39 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: get lro-digest faq.complete David McKain 540 Burroughs St. Morgantown, WV 26505 USA From Jimmy Patrick Wed Feb 1 09:50:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:50:23 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: 10 a penny? Mike said: >Discos are ten a penny here. Mike, I have a jar full up with pennies. I'll send you one penny, you send me 10 Discoveries. Thanks. This sounds even a better deal than those questionable Defenders in lots of 25 in the states. This isn't a scam is it? The penny is in the mail. Cheers! jimmy patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 1 11:44:22 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:44:22 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: New Subscriber That "do-nut" is part of the pipe...and (drawing on *vast* sad experiences) any repairs are unlikley to be worth the time and effort....Just how many times *DO* you want to take that pipe off and on?...believe me...if there was a way to save a buck!.......... steve........ "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Wed Feb 1 17:04:11 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 17:04:11 GMT From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Subject: Message from an Irish Reupblic based LRO --========================_6848204==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Enclosed is one attachment for the LRO daily digest. --========================_6848204==_ Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="internet_first_letter" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="internet_first_letter" (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :&@PZG'9bEQ9d)'CTFR0d)'aPG(4PFJ"A4%*1690A4!%!!!!-!!!!!!"a8[ih!#- !!!!!!!!%!!!C!!!!!!!!!!!"!!!!"*8!!!Z8!!!!!!!!!j8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!S!!"S!!!S!!"S!!!SD!!!!!!SD!!!!!!SD!!i!!!SS!") !!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!S!!!T%!!S!!!T1!!!!!!T1!"S!!!TS!(J !!!Sk!!!!!!VJ!#!!!!X!!"N!!!X`!#S!!!YD!!!!!!SD!!!!!3!"!!!,-!!!!!! ,'3!A!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,@J!k!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!! ,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!"86cSJ3@aX)%CPE'a[Gb"-B@jN)&*[GQ9b)#"&ER4SGA0TBA0 dFb"AEh*XC(GTC'8JGfK[)'KKF("PEL"dEb"LC5"[EL"dD'8J5@jdCA*ZCA30$8C 56ddk)&4[ERNJ6(9MDhGTE'`X)&*PF(9LE'PM)'pQ)%PbC@aKEQ3Z$3e%C@&b)%& XE#`0$8TeFh3JB5"cD'pbG#"ZEh4P)(4[)(0KH5"dD'&d)%NJB@dJFQ9cF'pZFfP LE'8JCQpb)(0PG(4TEQFJGA!JG'KP)#KQDA*cG#"PGQ9b)'&dG'9YF(3T)%PbDA0 S)%aKEQ3J8QpfCA)J6hGZCA)RFb!Q)%9ZG'KeFfPKFh4c)%0XG@)JG'KKG#"MBA4 PFR-JCQpb)'&XE#"TER4PFQ9cG'9N)("PFR0[ER-JEfBJFh9MD#"KEQ3JG'KP)'0 XG@)JBf&dCA*c)'C[FL"dD'8JGfK[E'8JEfBJG'KP)&*PF(9LE'PM)'pQ)%PbC@a KEQ3Z$3e*)(G[G@aN)'*P)'KKF("j)(4[)'KPBA)JCR*[E5"KERP[EQ8JGfK[)(G TFfKPFb"dEb"MEfjfCA*cC5"-8LGc)(GTG'JJE@8JB@jN)'ej)'CPE'a[Gb"ME(9 L)'ePE@*PFR-Z$3eAC5"KFQ8JEh*RB@jTFfPZCb"cCACPFQ&X)'9fC@jdFb"NGA* TEQFJ-6Nj05`J)%NJGfPXE#"VC@9`)(P[G5"KE'`JF'pcG'9N)'&LEh9d)(4SC@d JBA3JFf9XC@0dC@3JD@jdCA*fB@ac)(4SFQpeCfK[GA3JG'KP)(PPBA)Z$3e-Efp VD@jR)'C[FRGKFQ3JG'mJD'9KFQPZCb"QFQpY)(P[G5%K$3eP,@eKD@`k)'eKFQX JB@aX)'0[FR*PFh"[EQ4PEQ0P)'C[FL!JEANJBA4dC@jdD@pZ)$SJGQPK)(*XG@0 VGfaX3'eKD@`ZG'0N,QPP$3e8C@aPF'K[EQ8JE@8JC'PbC@0d)'&d)'K[E@8k)'4 TB@`JH@peFL"TER3Z)'0[C'8JG'KPEL"E-c8cA5!S+$!T-5NJ0$8j)$-e-MBZ$3e AFQPdC5"dEb"YC6SJ9'pZH5"-G@0VGfPXE#`J)$3b)%e[EQ&cG'9bH5"AB@aV,#! J3fa[EQ4KE'YTEL`J)%4eBQaTEL!b-L`J)!d*#3N*#3P5CA"eBQaTBb"[CL"*FQ9 XB@jN,Jd03fKPCA*c)5%0$3*e!2[Cd+52p[2lhXZkQIEJ[jI+VmhST1V+KH')[HE eQiAk`E2[Y-1&qTrhU28!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!V[c[U0l"V*qcp+MHbkl0mZrleX' ML2$eXX(!kB6pmUr5a+h0r1Il`mfXcI,PVG,AUmhST1V+L`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#Zr1qShX'XRl2LXpE,VS6pj[[BeqQ*pZfq`mbRLV2krSEBj`! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,Rlj2[ (ekb,p[1TdX(TRZ2NYp[-TiUclVfAhZcFlU'ba)@5b+(Fp3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Z1$NqpR3T)MKi,I%KD#$i2@qeX( TJ[@KS*+8Y-hklr[6a,f)i+m!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3! !!!58!!!%P3!!"*Mp!2F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!#J"!!!)B!!!!!"J!"!!3!"3$!!!"!!!!!9)!!!&6!!!"I3!!!Ai !!!')!!!"L3!!!RN!!!*k!!!#h`!!!Z!!!!0J!!!$B3!!!iF!!!1)!!!$e3!!!pB !!!3M!!!%*!!!"'m!!!5+!!!%L`!!"*3!!!59qr[lqr[lp[[aqr(lqr[lqr[lqr[ lqq`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3!!!%J@!!2!!!%!!!#)&J!$!!!"!!!!b"B!!` !!!3!!!%J@!!-!"F!!!!$!!!("!!3!!-!#JF!!!!!!!!"!!%!hJ!!!!!!!!19!!) !!!59!!!!!!!!!j83!2rr!!!!!3!!!!!"!!!!"*J!!`!!!3!!!!59!!3!!!!#!!- !"!!1!"!!%J!8!"8!&J!A"!%*d`!-!!!!5!")!!!!!!-J!M$rl2r[!c3#3@3#"AJ $hJ%!!!!"D!&S!!!!!!qJ#[!!!3!!!'3!!3!!!!%!!!!!!!%R$`!"!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$rR2qV%!3,43!)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!%'J,QJ &S!@J"D!&S!,3!Y"#!!!"!!%!!8)!!!!!!!")!"N3,6T6G(PXC9GbDA4PFL"*53! +!!!!!!!#!!!!!`C(C@jPGQ%!!!!8"94TE@9c`!%"!!!!!j3!!!18!!D!!)!!!!! $P!!!!!!!+!!I!G8#'3!S!"m!qJ)C!$S9D@jdCA*ZCA3JCQPbFh3JE'9dG'9b!!j 5EfGPFL"-G@0VGfPXE!!!$P*[Cf9b)%aeBfYhD@aX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*MU!!! !: --========================_6848204==_-- From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 09:41:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:41:41 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Mendo Forest Recon Pt3 Ahem, Well, now, what to do? Actually, in Part 2, I neglected to mention that we had earlier stopped at the foot of the Sylar Springs trail to consider the time and what we would do when we got to Bartlett Springs. Would we turn toward Highway 20 (and home) or on to Letts Lake. Or maybe out to Highway 20 via the longer route over Hough Ridge and around the Indian Valley Reservoir. As you will see when you join us in April, there are so many alluring possibilities... Just as we were about to move on again, out of the mouth of the Sylar Springs trail came a full-sized Ford pickup-load of yahoos, right out of Deliverance with a couple of good ol' boys in front and a couple more (armed with shotguns, casually pointed up into the drizzle), and, of course, the requisite "b'ar dawg" in the back. Hanging off the front bumper was a hitch-mount winch, you know, the kind that you carry in the back until you need it. Appartently they needed it to reduce their approach angle to about 20 degrees. So when we couldn't cross the creek, we started speculating about that trail. Could we? Should we? Of course we knew we shouldn't; although we told ourselves it was not too late, it was. In our hearts we knew it. Was it hard to talk everyone into trying it? No. The opinion was unanimous, "If those yehus could make it, so could we. A cooler head (was that you, Walt?) suggested that, before we turned our tracks onto that trail, we examine their tracks to determine whether they had simply come from somewhere or come and gone. We examined the tracks for some time and discussed it some more finally someone (Vance?) reasoned, hey, we could go check it out faster than discussing it. Silly, huh? But now you know how we managed concensus of eleven brilliant minds... Up the trail we went. Challenging but no problem for such stalwarts as we! Big ol' waterbars, ruts, down trees, lots of brush. Eventually, Vance (now in the lead), Jory, and I ground to a halt. What happened to the rest of them. Vance on the CB (gotta get me another one before the Scouting Outing II). Trouble in paradise; Jim was not making it up the hill. Aw, come on, Jim, you CAN do it. He did, once he found low box (just pull the red handle back, old boy). We all moved ahead again but soon stopped once more. This time, it was the views that stopped us. Now, there were some fine views earlier but you gotta look hard for ones like this. We were atop a ridge which was open meadow, with sweeping views in all directions for many, many miles. Wow. This is what we came here for! Considering how we had often been completely in the clouds, it seems remarkable that now, when we were up so high, the view was clear for miles. On our right, we could see down to Wild Bill Place, from whence we had come, now quite far distant. To the left, miles away and maybe a couple thousand feet below, was a deep valley with a most impressive waterfall. Must go there next time! Wait, stop. Melanie just brought me an envelope from OVLR. Whoa, Dixon, thanks! It's the newletter that I have heard so much about. O.K., O.K., I'll finish this, THEN open it. Grumble, grumble, grumble... Oh, back to the ridge. You have to come and see it, really. Actually, part of what stopped us was that Vance's engine had lately been running on about two cylinders, apparently moisture in the distributor (we'd gone through a *couple* of puddles). He got it running well enough, we all got some fotos, and grudgingly continued on. The trail started falling off fairly rapidly and the scenery changing dramatically, from scattered pine stands and meadows to chemise brush. The soil was different, too, more clay but also more rocks. As the trail started to really drop off, Vance suddenly halted again. I thought more ignition trouble and went to investigate. No. Having started to slide sideways and get squirrelly as the slope became quite steep, he was having second thoughts about continuing. By now it was nearly 4:00 P.M., I think. The decision should really have been instant: Turn back. Not us. Vance, Holly, Jory, and I (is that right) walked (and slid) all the way to the bottom of the grade, maybe a quarter mile or less. Yes, there was yet another creek at the bottom but one we could easily cross. The trail beyond the creek looked alright, as far as we could see. But the steep downslope was quite rutted, had sizeable rocks sticking out (with our oil pans as targets), and other unsavory obstacles. Well, we could surely get down it but could we get back up it? What if, as we by now realized was more than likely, we'd get stopped somewhere farther along? Oh, we probably could all climb it O.K. but someone said he'd sooner spend the night than climb THAT in the dark. Too right. Enough, I said. Hard as it is to accept that we have to go back the same way we came in, that's what we must do. And so we did. Now, you'd figure that if we came all that way with no serious problems, we could just as easily go back, right? Wrong. Mud bath in the dark, in Part 4. Granville Pool, Redwood Valley, CA "Road-I-Land-Rovers" P.S. This message was delayed because of problems with the mail host at Pacific Internet. Sorry for this and for any mail that's getting bounced back to you. Apparently my mail is going to be iffy for about a week, Pacific waiting for a new disk, unless he can get a backup in there for the interim. If you have trouble sending me mail, please send it to my alternate e-mail address: Granville_Pool@RedwoodFN.org Thanks, Gran From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 1 18:44:50 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 18:44:50 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Sliding Hi There's been some discussion on the list about braking without sliding. This morning i stopped by at the grocer's to get some coffee to take to work. I didn't want to park at the small parking lot, - if someone else parked i wouldn't be able to get out (109"). So i backed up and turned the rear to a wall where i could park without being in the way of others. The car was hardly moving but the surface was ice with water on top. BANG! The light "cages" and the trailerhook saved the rear lights. But i'll have to get new nets. The nets was pressed against the lights and stopped 0.000001 mm (approx) from the glasses. Another thing. The city busses has a better turning ratio than Aurens. Except when it's snowing. On my worn tires i turn the wheels all the way and hit the accellerator then suddenly lift my foot. The car will start to turn. When it's pointing in the right direction i press the pedal and let got of the steering wheel. The wheels will turn straight immediately and i can proceed. Slow motion powersliding is FUN!. But it won't improve the fuel economy!! Have FUN. sv/aurens From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Feb 01 09:03:13 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 09:03:13 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts So far my favorite advert is a photocopy of one that I just got in the mail from my parents. (And no I don't know, offhand, where they got it). The photo is a US Defender 90 in the woods/jungle. The large font title under the picture is "What to drive in places where your're the food" The advert ends with: "While it's not exactly the least expensive 4x4, the Defender offeres you that invaluable old English option. To be or not to be." -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 11:17:46 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:17:46 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Rover Turbine Roy, You asked about the history of the Rover Turbine. Somewhere I've got some articles on this car. I'll try to remember where and get back to you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 13:10:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:10:23 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Rovers on TV If someone has already mentioned it, I appologize for bringing it up again. On the Loejoy Mysteries series on the A&E cable channel (my favorite show on telly right now), Lovejoy's sortagirlfriend Lady Jane Felsham drives a Range Rover most of the time (Ardennes Green). There are often other Land-Rovers shown. Bad guy in a recent episode drove a Discovery. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 01 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 01 Feb 95 17:22:49 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Rover Gas Turbines The sons f the rover gt are still around today, in the sixties the Alvis Co, linked to Rover inthe BL days, made the gas turbines, in the late sixties they sold the design / manufacturing rights to a company called Rotax Aircraft Eqipment, a company that I worked for at the time, this company was a subsidiary of our friend JOE, later became known as Lucas Aerospace Limited. They marketed a single shaft 60 hp engine for universities and colleges to demonstate heat engines etc and dyno's, specific fuel consumption and all that. this engine was also used as an auxiliary power unit on the cross channel hovercrafts. They also marketed a twin shaft 150 hp engine which was used as an auxiliary power unit in the Nimrod aircraft. A futher development was the gas turbine engine starter for the Pegasus engine in the Harrier jump jet which needs to be able to operate in isolated places. A 75 hp version, It was on this particular ptoduct that I first visited the US in 1978 when we installed a starter in the Harrier AV8 B aircraft that was built by Mcdonnell Douglas in St Louis Mo. These engines are still built today by Uncle Joe. Back in the UK I have some original sales brochures from Rover for the engines and further technical details if anyone wants more info. The above is from my memory which is suffering from the past twenty years of working in the aluminium business, the dates are approximate. Regards Bill leacock Limey in Exile From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 1 17:53:22 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 17:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rovers on TV On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Granville Pool wrote: > If someone has already mentioned it, I appologize for bringing it up again. > On the Loejoy Mysteries series on the A&E cable channel (my favorite show on > telly right now), Lovejoy's sortagirlfriend Lady Jane Felsham drives a Range > Rover most of the time (Ardennes Green). There are often other Land-Rovers > shown. Bad guy in a recent episode drove a Discovery. If I recall correctly, Lady Jane's Range Rover is a Vogue SE. With the front spoiler etc. it was a very rare RR in the UK at the time. Last weeks episode had a 127 with Electrical Board markings on it parked outside his house. Others? Lots besides Dr. Who. The Avengers is another good source as are a great many (too many to list) British television series. From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Feb 1 19:11:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 19:11:23 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Window Sealant Kelly asks: > RE: Window Sealant > Ok. Everyone has probably talked this to death. But now that I have finished [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > I place the sealant in the center of the window channel, or towards one edge > or the other? Me also ponders this question. Nigel leaks from the driver's side window, and the leak hits me dead on the clutch foot (LHD), usually right where the tongue of my shoe enters the shoe (ie the point where water gets your foot wet instantly). For quite some time I just got used to moving my foot around, but I've gotten sick and tired of having Nigel all humidified after a storm....so a week or so ago, after some heavy rains, I decided to remove the trim and try to stop the leak. I only used silicon sealant to patch up and fortify the places where the rubber trim had gone awry (do it Earl!-Schibe, that is). It appeared to me that the trim left may have been "butyl"...a really goooey rubber, but it didn't appear to be rope shaped. It was flattened out somewhat, and there appeared to be the same material but of different shape for the center section. It *may* be that the shape was initially "round like rope" but that with 35+ years of compression under the trim it assumed its current conformation....The RN catalog lists "Sealer for Glass-sold per meter" ($5.70/meter, but this is the 1991 catalog and most prices have actually come down since then, perhaps due to all our bitchin' and an upswing in awareness of the competition). I would suggest that what you have may be the correct stuff, or near enough. I'd try to place it around the edge of all of the glass, in between the edge and the metal framing where ever possible. You may find difficulty getting your trim back on, especially if 1/4" turns out to be too thick, as I even had some minor problems, even with a spritz of silicon. But, perhaps someone who has actually completed a *total* resto might have some better advice. rd/nige From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 1 21:03:32 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 21:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Window Sealant The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is more or less sticky.(there are *2* versions it seems) and it is folded over the glass and therefore seals both the glass-to-metal seams...this is very important as glass does *not* have a sense of humor....if one uses the round "tape" on both sides of the glass, the pressure is too great and the screen cracks.....if you install it on one side only, the metal to glass seam causes the screem to break....gawd what a pain! I'm just *guessing* all this....*I* would never ever actually *break* a windscreen...(liar liar liar liar liar!) Pay the 7.50per......otherwise cries of anguish will fill the night..... steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From sohearn@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 1 18:38:49 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 18:38:49 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Defender 90 Questions Pierce wonders about the 90: Steel wheels Never seen 'em except in the sales literature I used to have (sorry). I'm sure you can get 'em. Probably through a parts outlet after you've paid for the alloys. They have five large spokes and are not unlike some Italian sports car rims. Spare on hood Seen Tdi's in England with 'em so it should only be a matter of parts (mount and supports?). Insurance No problem. Premium seems proportional to sales price. Actually better since with State Farm you seem to pay the same whether it's stripped or loaded. Used Defender's Some others on the list have mentioned seeing ads and I heard of one second- hand but otherwise with only 1468 in 1994 they're going to be relatively hard to come across. 7500 miles later Doing fine. Other than a few glitches the only headache has been a parking brake that just loves to catch the drum. Right now it's backed off pretty far. I think the dealer's going to get an opportunity to check it out real close not to mention I don't think they know what a fender cover is. Hope this is useful! - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 1 19:55:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 19:55:41 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D90 bonnet tire mount There is a genuine parts mounting kit for the D90/D110 bonnet. No problem. Chris Velonis put it on his 110 over a year ago w/no problems. UK and abroad can get it at their local emporiums - North America can obtain from RN or other parts houses - not dealer available at this time. We've not received a single D90 at the dealership w/steel wheels. Yes, they are same as UK-spec. One problem was that the wheels were delayed due to DOT approval! Everything was sent in as alloys since they were already approved for Range Rover. The steel wheels are not the classic solid steel wheels of Series cars. They are (my opinion) rather hideous looking slotted steel rims which degrade the overall appearance of the D90. I think the alloys are a much smarter rim and have held up (two winters) around here at least quite well. But, beauty is in the eye... Good luck! Jim Roverheadus defenderonium amazonius From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:26:43 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers in Movies Kieth tells of lions and Land Rovers... > There's an old British technicolour movie from around 1955 called > "Simba" - - basically an action feature to do with the Mau-Mau in > colonial Kenya. > More to the point, there's lots of Series 1's -- at one stage a > lion jumps into an open-topped SWB to say howzit to the hero behind Here's another oldie... "Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion" (Disney??) My favorite scene has Clarence "driving" an open-top SerI (or II.. I don't remember). The Rover goes right through some couple's safari campsite. The wife exclaims "Wasn't that a lion driving that jeep?" and the husband, very proper British, sitting in a canvas chair, smoking his pipe and reading the paper, looks up for a moment and says "It was a Land Rover, actually." Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:27:19 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: New Subscriber David.. Well.. another fool.. er, fellow has joined the ranks! Welcome! A finer bunch of madmen cannot be found anywhere else! As to your insurance question. You may want to try an appraiser for an "official" value. As to insurance, you might want to consider an antique car policy. It's cheap, and you can insure the vehicle up to whatever amount you want. There are drawbacks however. Most policies have limitations on how much you can drive. You can probably find appraiser and insurance info in "Hemmings Motor News". If you have never seen it, it's a monthly publication which caters to the old car hobby. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:26:54 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:26:54 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Message from an Irish Reupblic based I think they better cut back on the Harp's... Roger's sending us gibberish! > --========================_6848204==_ > Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="internet_first_letter" [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) > :&@PZG'9bEQ9d)'CTFR0d)'aPG(4PFJ"A4%*1690A4!%!!!!-!!!!!!"a8[ih!#- etc, etc Gee Roger.. now I gotta find BinHex..!! Cheers Mike From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 22:10:58 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 22:10:58 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Mendo Forest Recon Pt4 Headin' home: I seem to recall Morgan's saying, "Just a straight shot out of here." Or something to that effect. And, indeed, it did seem that nothing could be simpler. In the daylight. Oh, yeah, it was getting pretty dark by now. The weather channel had said sunset at 5:30 but that's in clear weather and not in the mountains. And we had forgotten just how many of those unmapped and unmarked trails there were. Several times, when we came to an intersection, we would have to stop to study it. Morgan, fortunately, had a very powerful plug-in spotlamp to shine up the roads. Even so, they tend to look pretty different in the dark. Thankfully, Holly had an unerring recall of where we were. It took longer than we bargained for to get out but we didn't actually make any wrong turns. Like Morgan said, just a straight shot. Until. Until we came to a rather long hill that we had gone down earlier without a glitch. Morgan, in the lead, got up just fine. Jim was next and got maybe half way before his Rover slid off to the left and would go no more. The rest of us waited with trepidation at the bottom of the hill while he struggled to gain a foothold. No hope. We all got out and ran (well, no, actually you could ba-a-arely walk on this slippery stuff) up and started pushing. How many pushers can get behind a Land-Rover before you have to push on someone else? About five. We pushed, our feet slid, our shoes being sucked off our feet at each step, while Jim finessed the throttle. "Hey, someone yell at him to turn his wheel to the left, he's plowing with his front tyres!" This for about fifty feet until the slope flattened somewhat and he could gain some headway. Who's next? Each of us tried to get up without help and each got to about the same place (now pretty chewed up) where Jim had slid off. More pushing. Last up was Vance and he got about the least far (road getting more chewed up and snotty with each attempt) and slid off to the RIGHT, into a shallow ditch and almost hard against a high, vertical bank. Now, how in the hell do we get out of this one without a winch? Certainly not by having someone who'd already made it up roll back down and give a tow. Leave him? Naahhh, couldn't do that to a swell fellow like Vance. In the early days of automobiles, it was common for teams of horses to pull them out of the mud. Whinny. Just wrap that snatch strap around the front bumper and each of the end loops can serve as a handle for one or two pullers (ersatz equestrians). And the rest in back as pushers, with one or two pushing with the feet against the bank. This actually worked but was scary, I'll tell you. Morgan and I were pulling on one strap end and Walt on the other (as I recall). I say scary because we were in front, rather close, and no telling when he might break free and suddently lurch forward. Come to think of it, under the circumstances, this was probably wishful thinking. But Walt nearly had his feet right under the front tyre and not much room to jump out of the way. Jump? Not unless you wanted to leave your shoes behind (I very nearly did, once). Eventually, though, we all reassembled at the top of the hill and pressed forward. We were definitely still in the woods but out of the worst of the mud. It continued to be pretty slippery but we didn't have any more hills that long and steep to conquer. The worst now seemed to be the downslopes, at least from where I sat, behind Morgan, watching his rear do a little huFrom rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Thu Feb 2 10:14:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 10:14:25 GMT From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Subject: Repeat letter For those who cannot decode Mac attachments the letter reads: TO: All Fellow Land Rover Enthusiasts Worldwide who happen to be on the Internet FROM: Tony Luckwill, Republic of Ireland. Dear All, Just a short note to say that I am responsible for setting up the (first ever attempt) Irish Land Rover Owner's & Enthusiasts Club that caters for all interested persons of such and the club caters for the whole of the Republic of Ireland. I would be happy to hear from anyone who wishes to converse LR's with me and my fellow club members. We are organising several events during 1995, I will keep you all posted about them at selected intervals throughout the year. Looking forward to hearing from you!! e-mail: mark all correspondence for my attention : via rluckwll@mail.tcd.ie Telephone me direct at home: dial your int. code then [353] ((0)1) 459 3526. Write to me: Tony Luckwill, 42 Monastery Walk, Clondalkin, Dublin 22, Republic of Ireland. Cheers!! Tony From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Feb 2 09:49:08 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:49:08 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Window Sealant > Subject: Re: Window Sealant > The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is none I used black silicone rubber goo stuff (RTV). Just fold the frame down so gravity is your helper. I cut four little spacers from some foam rubber (black) about 1/16" thick. Stick the spacers on the frame, close to the four corners so that they would space the glass away from the frame. Run a nice generous bead of your favorite silcone goo around the frame and spacers. Lay the glass into the goo. Run an other bead around the glass, and screw the retaining stripps into place. Clean up the excess with a wet finger or your tounge or what have you. oooh... yucky sticky. get it a neat as possible before it sets. After it sets up you can trim with a razor blade around the edge. Nice. Mines been in for 12 years like that. It ain't gona leak. CU, bg From jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 2 08:50:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:25 -0800 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: Re: New Subscriber >> ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail >> lamp whilst parallel parking ;) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course > it had buckled that high... :-) I have wire baskets on the reverse lamp (or it would have gone as well) but I've been too cheap to get them for the tail lamps. Alas, it was a pole with which I surgically whacked the yellow tail-lamp. So precisely, that while the lense completely vaporised, the bulb and plastic housing were completely unscathed! go figure... -jory From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Thu Feb 2 11:20:53 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:53 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Jacob's Electronics Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from Jacobs Electronics? They have a gizmo they are selling called the Omnipack that sits between (from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and just uses the points as the trigger. I guess it is sort of like the Crane/Allison unit but you don't get the optical trigger. Your points in this system are supposed to last 5 or 6 times longer (this is one claim among the many I have heard from them). I do like the fact that you keep the points which seems to be in keeping with the simple mechanical nature of the truck and with the way the wiring setup is if the Jacobs thinged failed you could just switch a few wired and be back to stock. I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them. Best- Greg PS - Is there a general consensus on electric cooling fans? Do they do anything for performance/economy or are they just a not worth it? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Greg Hiner (512) 475-7243 Computer Support hiner@mail.utexas.edu Garrison Hall 318 University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712 From jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 2 08:50:21 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:21 -0800 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: those new 110's I've heard a whole new set of "info" on these from non-rover net surfers i know. they claim these vehicles were donated by the british government to "desert slaughter" (err, i mean storm) and that they are in crates sans wheel, fluids, etc. Someone somewhere said they need about $3500 in work/parts to be mobile. A couple people offered to send me their archives of info on these (I politely declined), and at least one guy i know is supposedly part of a group trying to buy a lot of 25. My interest is, shall we say, somehwhat tempered by my better judgment ;) -jory >Subject: those new 110's >From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >Or is is that you guys were just too embarassed to tell us that you got >suckered. From Jimmy Patrick Thu Feb 2 11:20:03 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:03 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: lro ftp site lro netters, Is the ftp site gone? I looked for Ray Harder's ftp site of the lro-digests and I can no longer get in as anonymous. I also asked Majordomo who was subscribed to lro and Ray is not on the list any more (as far as I can tell--are you out there Ray??) I have a machine where we can put the old digests if lulu is no longer available. Does anyone else have a load of old digests? I have all of 93 on my system here. Does anyone care to have them archived? Jimmy Patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Thu Feb 02 10:39:05 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 10:39:05 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Rover/BRM Racer I've tried posting several messages directly to Roy in the Rockies, but each time they get bounced back as "user unknown". This happens whether the mail reader does the addressing or I do it...so Roy, this cuppa JP5 is for you.... The Rover/BRM turbine race car was developed for the 1965 LeMans race. The first Graham Robson book shows it in a very Rover-like pose...the bonnet up and several engineer-types peering into the engine bay. More interesting is the transporter used to haul the vehicle to the track. It's a forward control (and in 1965, one of the very first) with a special "kneeling" suspension in the back. With the rear axle removed, the load bed could be lowered almost to ground level so the car could be rolled up easily into the back. And while I've got your attention, I've replaced or refitted all the glass using the butyl "rope" stuff. More appropriately, it is a "tape" and get the thinnest stuff available - 1/16" thick by about 1/4" wide. For the windscreen, the stuff needs to be applied to inner and outer surfaces, not the edges. When you do it right, the edges of the glass won't contact the frame anywhere...not even at the bottom (use wooden shims to hold in place temporarily). Same holds true for the fixed glass in the front doors, but here only the outside gets the butyl. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "DAVE MCKAIN" Thu Feb 2 08:34:38 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:34:38 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Land Rover Turbines I have been notified that one of the turbine engines used for LR's was donated to someone in SA who is no longer there and currently resides in some sort of museum. Sorry that the facts are sketchy but the info is second hand. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From "DAVE MCKAIN" Thu Feb 2 08:46:18 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:46:18 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Head Gaskets I spoke to the gentleman at British Pacific about the potential cooling problems with recently supplied 2.25 liter petrol head gaskets (part # RTC3335). I was told that the gasket missing the coolant ports from cyl's 2, 3 and 4 has a grey composite surface towards the head while the proper head gasket has a brown surface. I checked the one I just installed (from the small portion of the gasket protruding from under the front of the head) and, luckily, it was the proper gasket. BP has contacted Land Rover but has yet to recieve any information. I purchased this head gasket 7 Dec 94. I would still like to get some more information before I thrash the vehicle this May so if anyone knows anything more about these head gaskets, please drop me a message. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 02 Feb 95 08:51:30 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion Folks: Does anyone have a copy of Clarence the cross-eyed lion? I'd love to see it. I'll swap a copy of Crack in the World (which is also loaded with Land Rovers). Thanks for all the answers on the D90. There is a very enthusiastic gentleman out in Reno who is interested in the Sgt Major and who I think will give it a great home, so I am getting rather excited about the prospect of a D90 in the spring! Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 2 09:11:05 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:11:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: New Subscriber On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote: > ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail > lamp whilst parallel parking ;) Wire baskets for the tail lamps. Smashed another tail lamp whilst parallel parking? What did you hit? Tail lamps are just a wee bit high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course it had buckled that high... :-) Rgds, From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 02 Feb 95 09:02:12 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Trailer Bargains Folks: As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my problems! Over Christmas, I bought a U.S. Military trailer built for M-151 and surplused when the military switched to Hummers. These trailers are incredible and are generally available for 100-400 dollars in good to excellent shape. The one I bought was totally reconditioned by the Marine Corps before they switched to Hummers and they dumped it as surplus for next-to-nothing after totally rebuilding it. I paid $300 for it totally rewired, new bearings, new tires, new springs, new lights, new (albiet crappy) paint, rebuilt brake... everything what they called "arsenal reconditioned." The trailers are incredibly well built, have big, 16" wheels and great springs, parking brakes, drains (with stoppers so you can fill it with water and use as a pool at the rally) etc. They are so well balanced that you can lift the tongue and maneuver them around yourself, too. They are built for off-road use, too, so are at home behind a Rover even in arduous conditions. You need to fit pintle hitch to the rear crossmember in place of the ball, but pintles are easy to get and install. They are even the perfect height for a Land Rover rear crossmember, so they don't cant up or down. They are definitely overengineered and an amazing bargain. When I get my D90 I'll be tearing the trailer down and repainting it to match the D90 (It's Marine camo now) and will look sharp painted up witha black chassis, matching wheels and body-colored box. Anyway you can probably find one of these trailers by contacting the Military Vehicle Preservation Assn, or any number of surplus shops (or looking in Hemmings). There are tons on the market right now as the military has just dumped a lot off them off as surplus. There is a whole yard of them for sale at a surplus shop in Lancaster, OH, btw. Anyway, thought folks would be interested. They are a great addition to an 88 and vastly increase the utility for anyone doing real work with their Rovers! (And I won't have to fill the back of a new 90 with manure, either!) Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 02 12:09:20 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 12:09:20 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) Help! I just got my new Daytimer refill pages, and ordered the "map set". There's a map of the UK but it has a "quadrillion" cities on it, and I can't seem to locate Solihill. (Nor can I spell it, no doubt!) Could someone help me locate it? If you could give me the approximate distance and direction from a major city like London, Liverpool, Birmingham, or Newcastle I'd appreciate it. Also, please help me with my spelling. I just want to "see" where my favorite vehicles are made. Thanks, and if you could respond directly, that too would be appreciated. I'm in the digest mode, and am fairly anxious. (Okay... so I have NO patience!) Thanks again, Dave Brown - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA. #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Keerock2@aol.com Thu Feb 2 14:28:39 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 14:28:39 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 Questions Pierce Reid writes: >But I have some questions on the D90... >1. Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels? none No, I haven't seen a D90 with steel wheels during my extensive digging around looking at Defenders in Southern California in the last few months. However, I did see a used D110 for sale at (believe it or not) the local Porche dealership recently, and it had the steel wheels. They strike me as much more functional than attractive. As I remember, they had the same number of spokes and same general design as the alloys, except that they're much "flatter" than the alloys (not as convex or rounded). BTW, are there really problems with the alloys?? >3. I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is >available (as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90. Pardon my ignorance, but by "pickup cab" do you mean a hard top? LR was supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru the roll cage. You have to have the full safari cage, though. I haven't seen one in person yet, but I did see a picture of one at the dealership and they look just like the soft top, with alpine windows, etc., and are even that same grey color. Reports in the LR section here on America Online complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify that. Also, the top is $2,500. Ouch! Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want). Then they said to buy the rest of the goodies (brush guards, rear seat, side steps, etc.) from Rover North for roughly 50% of what the dealers charge. I'm still trying to find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this. Something to keep in mind. >4. How about insurance? I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif. Keep in mind we have some of the highest rates in the country. For me (25 yrs old, clean record), the best quote was $1,900 per year. That was after arguing with the woman for ten minutes that I was *not* mistaken and that there actually *was* a 1994 vehicle made without ABS and/or airbags. Your results may vary. And WHAT comments about how these things roll were you refering to?? >Thanks, I am sure I'll think up some new questions as I get closer to a >purchase. I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they >are getting along with their vehicles .... I'm in the same situation and therefore should introduce myself. My name is Dean Silliman and I've been on this list for only a few days. I'm here because I'm very seriously considering buying a D90 in the near future. I considered a slightly used LWB, but decided a D90 would be much more fun (if much less practical). Like Mr. Reid, I have many questions. Mostly I'm concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the sad reality if I purchase one. Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they as hearty?) Are they suitable for daily use? These are things hard to gauge by a test drive. I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in power and ability with the D90. By the way, are there any LR clubs here in So Calif? The off-roading here in my mountain community two hours east of L.A. rivals much of that found in Northern Cal (sans Redwoods, of course). Any advice from readers would be greatly appreciated. Everyone should also feel welcome to send direct email to me. And I pledge to make future submissions much shorter. -Dean PS - Did anyone else catch "Car & Driver's" Ten Best/Worst list for 1994? Unfortunately, the D90 filled two of the ten catagories for worst performances of the year: Top speed...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 mph Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA They just don't understand. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 02 14:42:55 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:42:55 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: connectivity.... Real time subscribers may have noticed that the list was unreachable between approximately 12:45 and 18:15 GMT today. This was due to a BT line problem between the London Point-of-Presence of our network provider and Major Domo's location. - Bill From Russell Burns Thu Feb 2 12:02:55 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 12:02:55 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D90 Questions > supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru > the roll cage. You have to have the full safari cage, though. I haven't [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify > that. Also, the top is $2,500. Ouch! I have one of those kiddy pool tops, and have not had anny issues with it. I have been wondering if you can use the top for a bass boat in the summer.. I am sure it would make a great sled. (the top panel unbolts from the sides. > Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that > I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want). Then they said to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this. Something to keep > in mind. RN 1-802-879-0032 I got my top from them. The price was equel to the dealer, but there nice to deal with, and have a better location. > >4. How about insurance? > I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif. Keep in mind we have [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the > sad reality if I purchase one. I use mine to comute 100 mile a day. With the hard top, and lots of foam, and dynomat it is comfortable. I also raised the seat up 1.5 inches. > Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they > as hearty?) Are they suitable for daily use? These are things hard to gauge Until we get 20 or so years under our belt, we will always be the weaker sex. but we still can beat on the disco, and R-rover owners together.... > by a test drive. I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep > since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA > They just don't understand. Mine does 90... Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 2 15:05:01 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:05:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains On 2 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of > carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my > problems! The Canadian military dumped these in the summer of last year. Some people got a very good deal through Crown Assets Disposal (All federal good have to go through there) Rgds, PS. At least four with OVLR Ottawa members that I know of. From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 02 12:19:55 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 12:19:55 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: D90 Questions ------- Forwarded Message >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:19 -0800 >From: Roger Sinasohn >Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts LRNA had/has a great series of print ads on the back cover of British Car (a great mag, btw). Lots of british humour, and showing the capabilities. One of my favorites: __..--'\ __..--'' | ____....----'''' / | __...---___...---''' | _| _.-'__..--'' ____....---/ | __..--'' | _.-'_.-' ___...---''' _.' |__..--'' () | .___.-' __..--'' ___...---'/ | RR __/ | | _.-' __..--'' ___...'' | () __..-' | | | _.-' _.-' / \__..--' _.==| | / | .-' ..'' | | _() __..---'' | |==' / |__...--' We british have always driven on the wrong side of the road. / ' Anyway, it's *supposed* to be a curving mountain road, (on the right, there) and a Range Rover (on the left) paralleling it on the other (wrong) side of the low barrier. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Simon Hobson Thu Feb 2 18:02:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:02:11 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Re: Questions for the Defender 90 Community >Questions for the Defender 90 Community: >2. Has anyone tried to fit a hoodmount spare on a D-90? It's a common option and there are strengthening ribs in the panel where the mounting goes. On the downside, it's a right pain of a place to put it. It makes the bonnet^H^H^H^H^H^Hhood very heavy to lift and obstructs vision somewhat. I havn't actually tried it, but I imagine that it takes some strength to lift the spare on and off the bracket - especially if you're in your best suit and the wheels are dirty when you get a flat. >3. I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is >available >(as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90. Pick-ups are a standard option over here in the UK, so the parts should be readily available. Whether they are readily available over there I can't say. >4. How about insurance? Do people find the rates particularly high? Well I found the 90 (2.5 Diesel, non turbo) cheaper to insure than the car (Renault 11, 1721cc Petrol), and I think the tdi is about the same. I can't say what the V8 petrol would be as there aren't many of them over here and I've never considered owning one - did someone mention petrol prices :-( >I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they are getting >along with their vehicles Well I've had mine for 10 months now and I really like it. I need better off-road tyres, and I'm still working out how to get the hydraulic drum winch in the front and the capstan converted to removeable hydraulic status - but when I get that lot sorted I will be having some real off-road fun. Having briefly driven a friends SIII I can honestly say that I'm glad I got the 90 - if only for the power steering ! TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 14:05:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise unhappy. I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud all over the underside of "Gooey". Arrghhhh. But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator. For 22.5 years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess. Ya know, it had never occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable. Amazing. I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-). And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM (auto teller machine)... Gerry 72 88 From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 14:05:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise unhappy. I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud all over the underside of "Gooey". Arrghhhh. But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator. For 22.5 years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess. Ya know, it had never occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable. Amazing. I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-). And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM (auto teller machine)... Gerry 72 88 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 2 08:59:30 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:30 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: New Subscriber When I bought my 109", I had to get a classic car loan and full coverage. Part of all this was to get two certified appraisals. I found two guys in the phone book who were affordable and seemed to know what a Land Rover is. Then, I compiled a whole passel of recent classified ads from the Aluminum Workhorse, RN, and ABP newsletters showing how much similar vehicles were selling for. I also explained how much I thought the vehicle was worth, and pointed out significant features and explained how they added to the value of the vehicle. One of the appraisers took pictures of the vehicle (from opposite corners, to show rear & one side, and the front and the other side.) All this added up to two appraisals from, like, professional appraisers that *no one* could argue with. (They were $12,000 and (I think) $10,500.) I showed that to the bank and got the loan; showed it to the insurance agent, and got $12K of insurance. (Of course, they wanted copies of the pictures.) I can get you the the names/addresses/phone numbers of the guys I used, and I could even dig out copies of the appraisals. I also have, hanging on my fridge, an ad from the SF Chronicle listing a 109" for sale for $22K. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Sekerere@aol.com Thu Feb 2 19:29:09 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:29:09 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: 1966 Land Rover Tyres Well a couple of questions: My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me whether they are too big for this vehicle (88" SWB)? Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? Thanks for all your help Chris W 1966 88" Land Rover "There are cars, there are trucks, there are 4wds, and then there are Land Rovers" From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 17:12:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:12:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: BRM Rover Turbine >From what can recall it was in 1961 thru 1964 that Rover fiddle with their sports racer. This was the same time period that Chrysler produced a bunch of huge Plymouth/Dodge sedans powered by a Turbine and as a test gave or leased the things to assorted mere mortals. Anyway the thing about the Rover Racer was that the chassis and body-work were done by BRM I believe and the internals were Rover. All the reports, as I recall, said the power was terrific and the throttle response abysmal. I know it ran at Le Mans in 1962/1963. I think it was driven by Richie Ginther, a BRM team driver at that time. A Sports Car mag at the time called Sports Car Graphic...later evolved into something else....had a cartoon I loved. The scene is Le Mans, the start....back when, at the flag, the drivers ran across the track, jumped into their cars and blasted off from diagonal parking positions. The first panel showed the drivers sprinting for their rides, second panel showed them taching and then dumping the clutch as they reached about 6K revs and last panel shows all the cars, except the Rover disappearing in the distance. The Rover driver was still sitting there calling out the tach readings....45,000....48,000......52,000. I think it reached power at about 60K. I thought it was cute :-). BTW the thing had a bizarre, for the time appearance. The exhaust stack was a rather squarish affair canted toward the rear at about a 40 degree angle and the remainder of the body was not overly handsome. Gerry 72 88 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 02 Feb 95 20:56:54 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: London area RR Goodie Shops >I'm about to leave for Merrie Englande, home of my forefathers, and >wondered if any of you netters could recommend any interesting >places in the London area (accessible by public transport) Hope this doesn't come too late... When in London, the one shop you'll want to visit is 'Autoparts Ltd.', the arguably biggest LR/RR parts centre in London City. They accept credit cards and ship worldwide. They're located at: Unit 21, Zennor Road Trade Establishment, Balham Road, London SW12 0PS, tel. 0181 675 4022. It's not exactly an area you would come through as a tourist. Imagine London, now put your finger on Chelsea - sound familiar? Ok, now move your finger down and south, cross the Thames, go down past and through Battersea and Clapham, and you'll eventually come to Balham. Public transport, either by Underground: Northern Line southbound via Cannon Street, London Bridge etc., get off at Balham. From there it's 10-15 min. walk, go up Balham High Road to the north, take Devonshire Road to the right, when you hit Cavendish Road ask for Zennor Road (it's a bit hidden). Alternatively by railroad via Clapham Junction Southbound. London Bus: Tooting Bec southbound (don't know the number), get off near Balham Station. Good luck! and better brush up your Cockney in case you have to ask for the way... and, er... see that you get back before dark... Have fun, Stefan From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 17:58:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:58:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Miscellany In talk of differential lubricant...In my first L-R I found that the thinker/colder the oil the less it leaked, most of the time anyway. And the hubs got what they needed and didn't pee on the brake drums when the oil was cold and thick. Somebody heard me mention this and suggested I replace the 90W with 140W. I'd never heard of 140W and was skeptical...but on my next trip to the parts store...there it was. So I bought a bunch...and shortly thereafter snapped a half-shaft...sooo... Well even in the warm sunshine of late May in California, the stuff is about the same consistency as peanut butter (or for you in the UK that's about like Guinness Stout ;^) ....no, please don't hit me) and practically had to be applied with a butter knife. Well all summer long every thing ran extremely well and really quietly so I put the stuff in the front end, the transfer, main, ...swivel pin housings, steering box....great stuff I thought. It was mid to late November, at about 10,000 feet in the Sierra when I first began to question the wisdom of this cleverness. After several nights of camping in a couple glorious spots I hiked back to Phred early in the morning. He had about half a foot of snow in the spare on the hood and the remainder of the bodywork was covered with solid ice that looked like snow. Anyway...when I got in and turned the key I thought the battery had died. It wouldn't crank, just sorta groaned. Hmmm I thought...well I'm on a mountain...this shouldn't be a problem...except this was a very remote and untraveled area at that time of year and what if I can't get it to go.....!?!!!. I noticed too, that the steering wheel seemed not to want to move. Then I tried moving the stick into gear. The peanut butter/Guinness had turned to gelatin epoxy!!! It took hours of effort just to get it pointed down hill and in position to go. On about a 10% grade I finally got it rolling fast enough to get it to 4th and to get it to catch before it slowed again. By then the air temps were probably over 50f. Well it seemed like a good idea at the time...and as long as you don't have temps below 50f I'd say the stuff is a moderately good thing to use. And in the LRO celebrity column....about 20 years ago a kid (early 20s) lived a few blocks from me in Sonoma California and had an 88', either a late IIa or III. The kid was Jon Provost, who played on the Lassie television series in the early to late 60's I think. Never really watched that. I understand he now lives in Santa Rosa Calif, sell real estate and I'm told, still owns a series LR. Also interesting ... My mechanic's son just emigrated to Calif...until mid January work for a L-R dealership in Ireland. He was saying very nice things about the RR 4.0S...and that they cost ever more over there!!?! But, he sez, almost none of them have V8s....that's special order only. They nearly all are equipped with a BMW 6 cyl turbo diesel and he loves that engine. Pity we'll never get it. Gerry 72 88 From William Caloccia Thu Feb 02 21:08:44 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 21:08:44 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Any RTV's this weekend ? // Two '66 109" for sale in shropshire Any RTV's this weekend in the S/W or midlands ? ---- I called up the man who put this add in Feb LRO*and basically, they've both been in storage for at least a year. He mentioned that he had been in California for a few years, bu never exported them. * pg 223, col2, ad 3 (both the top and bottem ones on pg 223, column 2 are sold already.) Both are 5 dr station watongs. The one offered for 495 GBP is considered the roadable one, requiring the re-fitting of the rear window, replacment rear lenses and a few other odds - he was running it form an external gas tank, it goes, it stops, but it won't be passing MOT to drive it home from there... >From the photograph both rear windows are out as well as the passenger window, with five door and safari top (alpine windows & sheild) it is repoted to have had the body taken off and the chassi repaired as necessary. The other one is also a 66, requires welding on the center of the rear cross member, left hand rear out rigger, and is in a non-running state at the present time, and he was asking 395GBP He said some other yank from the london area was due to look at them saturday morning... I don't think I'll be going up there to check 'em out unless I decide to got to Manchester this w/e. (not likely) From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Feb 2 17:55:50 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 17:55:50 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics Greg asks: > Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from > Jacobs Electronics? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some > thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them. FWIW, and IMHO, the limiting factor on point life, in my land rover at least, is not the contacts themselves (ie condition thereof) but degree of wear on the arm that rides on the cam. I've bought no fewer than three sets of points from RN in the past three years, all of which were "genuine" plastic crappy points. None were bakalite (the stuff that lasts for years)-it is much harder material. Despite my continued attempts to keep the cam lubed (it is lubed, but...) the points I've had don't last more than a year. All of the brand new ones can achieve the required gap, but only at the very end of the adjustment. Once the arm wears, they are trash. OK, so maybe I have a slightly worn distributor...but the shaft doesn't have that much play in it, and I'm convinced that a brand new set will be more or less the same in any (proper) distributor (I have the old style-round cap type). I'd go with the crane/allison ignition, but I've been told that it does require that you remove the brass post that your points otherwise ride on. If I had another plate, I'd probably go for it (and keep the plate, points, and condensor in the toolbox just in case), but as is I don't want to be dependant upon the dreaded black box. cheers, rd/nige From DCagen@aol.com Thu Feb 2 22:53:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:53:11 -0500 From: DCagen@aol.com Subject: land vs. range I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and Range Rover two separate companies? And if so, when did they merge? Or just two nameplates of the same company? Where can I get more historical info? Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of these noble vehicals. Thank you. DCagen@aol.com From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 3 00:41:34 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 00:41:34 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: land vs. range DCagen writes: < I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the < last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and [ truncated by lro-digester From "Ryan K. Haaland" Fri Feb 3 08:42:56 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 08:42:56 +0000 (WET) From: "Ryan K. Haaland" Subject: SWB Series IIA for sale Notice to UK readers. I, regretfully, must part with my B Reg, 1963 Series IIA SWB. It has a hard top and is in fair condition. I bought it as a project vehicle and, as a DPhil student in my last year here at Oxford, just don't have the time to give it the attention it requires. I'm looking for something a little bit newer to ship back to the states the end of this year. I'd like to get 450 pounds for it. I paid that for it a little over a year ago and have put some hours and new bits into it. If you are interested, e-mail me at haaland@atm.ox.ac.uk. Or, since I'll be working at home this weekend, call me at 0869 244 106. I live in Bicester, Oxfordshire, just off the M40. Thanks! Ryan Haaland From Richard Jones Fri Feb 3 10:04:48 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:04:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? DEBROWN@srp.gov writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) none Solihull ... about 5 minutes from here (sorry that doesn't help you much does it) ... South Birmingham (Birmingham sort of runs into Solihull) ... If you have major roads on your map then the factory is to the West of the A45 (opposite side of the road to Birmingam International Airport), just North of the M42. Hope this helps Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Richard Jones Fri Feb 3 10:24:41 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:24:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: land vs. range DCagen@aol.com writes: > I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the > last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of > these noble vehicals. Range Rover is officially the Land Rover Range Rover, always been part of the same company, be it Rover, British Leyland, Land Rover, Rover Group. There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. > Thank you. > DCagen@aol.com -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 3 09:58:20 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:58:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: land vs. range On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, Richard Jones wrote: > Range Rover is officially the Land Rover Range Rover, always been part > of the same company, be it Rover, British Leyland, Land Rover, Rover > Group. There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which > probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. British Motor Corp -> \ >--> BLMC -> BL -> Jaguar -> Austin -> Rover British Leyland -> / Rover Rover Group / Triumph Rover - Rover Group -> Land Rover (Purchased by BMW in '94) Rootes/Humber/Sunbeam -> Chrysler Austin & Morris => British Motor Corp. et cetera et cetera.... From bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com (Bruce B. Epps) Fri Feb 03 09:17:31 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 09:17:31 -0600 From: bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com (Bruce B. Epps) Subject: Land Rover info address Whoever, I am trying to subsribe to a Land Rover info exchange address, but am not having any success using the following address given to me: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com Anyone out there that can help me? much thanks, bruce epps bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com From ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Fri Feb 03 10:02:25 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:02:25 -0500 (EST) From: ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Subject: count me in! Hello there, As a new subscriber I thought I'd offer a quick bio...I've read the FAQ and am evaluated the possibility of entering the "owner status" My background with regard to 4 wheel drives is limited to various experiences with (brace yourself) Toyota land cruisers.....Still there? ........Hello? Well, anyway....right know I'm assembling reference material for doing some "homework" so far it looks as though my interests are primarily in a 109..four door possibly....I like to carry alot of "stuff" with me when I travel and I also like to bring lots of friends....I may also investigate the possibility of long slow project car of the 88 variety......(my father in law would flip at a retirement gift of this nature as I think he used to have an 88 many many years ago......) Having read (but not memorized) the FAQ I was wondering why the 6 cylinder engine would reduce the value of a 109?......Are parts less available? Are head corrosion/warpage/burnt valves that problematic/prevalent? I'd welcome input regarding offerings....or any other info. that would help me get started.......I get anxious everytime I see one of those darned land rovers! Rob M Concord, MA USA rob@harv-ehs.mhs.harvard.edu PS I enjoy the Land rover "lore" as well (the moose story) I recall speaking with a woman about five years ago recalling her dad's former land rover....She told me of filleting fish on the fender (wing??? I have alot to learn) when she was a kid. Anyway back to work! From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 03 10:23:12 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:23:12 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant Talked to Robert Davis this AM - he's been driving his Mercruiser 109 for about 100 miles now. For those who came in late, Robert has taken a Mercruiser marine engine, basically a 4 cyl. 3.0 liter, long-stroke version of the Chevy "Iron Duke" 151 and fitted it to his 109. Pumping out 140 hp, Robert states that "no one follows him on the Interstate anymore," and at 70 mph, there is still plenty of room on the throttle. Fitment is straightforward, as the engine is *smaller* than the Rover. Exhaust and radiator plumbing were unmodified. The only drawback is that the starter is on the opposite side of the engine and nearly fouls the front prop shaft. Robert plans on replacing it with a solid 1" shaft rather than the tubular Rover unit to gain clearance. Because of the increased torque, he would also reccommend "taller" gearing. I believe he has the 4.7 rearend right now. Robert says its almost scarry how much power the Rover has now. Look for a step-by-step "how to" story in the next issue of "The Gearbox." *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Mike Rooth Fri Feb 3 15:53:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 15:53:33 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant Sandy, No-one follows *me* on the road with my 2.25 diesel,either. They're all in front! Cheers Mike Rooth From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 3 09:15:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:15:27 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: land vs. range Richard Jones of 5 miles from Solihull writes: < There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which < probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. On the state side of the pond, there is greater cause for confusion. Americans can be forgiven for thinking Range Rover came first. Land Rover disappeared in 1974 and Range Rover was introduced in 1987, and the marketing wise men (guys?) deliberately avoided making any connection. The outfit here was called Range Rover of North America, and stayed that way until the very recent introduction of Defender and Disco to these shores. Then they were in a real dither whether or not to admit they were all related, and who came first. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Fri Feb 3 11:40:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 11:40:27 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello all: Really miss the net hope all is up and running --- because my 109 is There is only one word to describe it, increadable. The Mercruiser 140 runs smooth (espically at idle 600 rpm) and the performance is fantastic. It is (in my opinion & I have first hand knowledge) the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with the 3.9 diffs that are not yet installed. On the down side I'm having a front driveshaft manufactured. The original was too close to the starter and may have made contact while at full rebound. I am excited ! Sandy, Diesel Bob, and Wiley Browning are comming out this weekend to test drive. I even need to install a remote booster (from Mini-Mania) to improve the breaking, which is needed because of the extra power. Extra power - I love that phrase! Well gotta go - could get in trouble for this message (petty people exist in 1995). Miss you all Your friend and fellow enthasist1 R&D From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 03 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 03 Feb 95 10:15:24 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Holy Smoke - a Weber! I vaguely recall that someone - I think a LR newbie? - complained about a 4-cyl. petrol smoking w/power loss, fitted with a Weber carb... yeah, sounds familiar. Seems no-one has relieved him yet, so maybe I'll take charge. "The Weber" as we know it ... blah blah ... is prone to congestion by dust/ filth/debris/flakes from bad air filter/dusty environment/rusted tank/bad petrol etc., and there even have been accounts of brand new Webers out of the factory box that had metal filings and other manufacture related crap *inside* the float chamber. The Weber, even more so than other carbs, takes unkindly to foreign matter living inside him. Typically at wide throttle openings and high revs some of the kaka floating around in the chamber is sucked up into the needle valve, blocking it and causing a float chamber overflow, which in turn causes - see above - loss of power with camouflage smoke screen. I experienced this phenomenon after returning from Jordania and Egypt where I had ingested megagallons of cheap, filthy, contaminated petrol, something around 75 octanes often laced with diesel/water/camel urine or whatever. A week later the engine (also Weber) began acting up, just like yours. Applied my usual remedy (..."when it stops dead I'll have plenty of time to look at it; as long as it moves... bugger"). Well, after 2-3 weeks the problem disappeared as suddenly as it had started. Suppose all the crap was eventually passed through the valve and fired out through the exaust, or the higher grade petrol helped to dissolve it. So, you'll probably have to take the thing apart and clean out the float chamber, jets and needle valve, preferably with compressed air. Get a new set of gaskets before you do (not the entire overhaul kit!). While you're at it fit an inline fuel filter, the petrol pump filter isn't fine enough for Webers, even _if_ it isn't perforated. Good luck... Stefan From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Feb 3 17:55:18 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:55:18 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: land vs. range > Where can I get more historical info? > Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of >these noble vehicals. Same company - try writing to majordomo@team.net with the text get lro-digest faq.complete It's got various bits of history and a good bibliography... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Steve Firth Fri Feb 3 17:26:13 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:26:13 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: land vs. range DCagen@aol.com wrote: >were Land Rover and Range Rover two separate companies? No bless you, Land Rover is the one and only company, with a somewhat tortuous history of state/private ownership. In fact they were always thought of as just plain old "Rover" with Land and Range being different models from the line up. I think we have David Bache (recently deceased) to thank for the looks of our favourite toy. He was responsible for the styling differences between Series I and II Land Rovers and for the distinctive looks of the Range Rover. He was educated as an engineer, not as a stylist. Which may explain why the Land Rover series has evaded the here today, gone tomorrow looks of its competitors. ............................................................................. Firth Consulting Stephen Firth Support Services steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk CIS: 100023,3414 for Biotechnology From "John R. Benham" Fri Feb 3 10:43:15 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:43:15 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Tire Size For Chris (sekerere@aol.com) and other LRO's: The tires you have on your Land Rover 88 now (31x10.50 R15LT's) are way too large. Land Rovers already have a terrible turning radius and these tires exasperate this even further. Also, the tires probably stick out wider than the Land Rovers body. This increases the width needed to drive through tight spaces and can also spray small rocks and debris on the Rovers side panels. But the main reason why one should not use tires this size is that Rover's little 2.25L engine is robbed of more power to turn these tire/wheel combinations. The energy needed to overcome the tires centrifugal force is exponentially greater when one increases the overall tire/wheel radius. Normally, the Land Rover with 15" wheels use the 235R15's. To get a little extra clearance, use the 30x9.50R15LT's. This size would be a good comprimise between the 235's and the 31's. I just put a set of Yokohama Supper Diggers 30x9.50's on my L/R 88 ($69.00/ea at Costco). It has increased it's clearance, they do not stick out, and I think they even weigh less than my old Goodrich T/A 235's. They also look great on an 88, but that's purely subjective. Next weekend we have a three day Rover Run over some fairly rough terrain on the eastern slopes of Washington's Cascade Mountains. I will update everone on how these Yokohamas performed. Safe Rovering, John Benham 1968 88 `Bwana Mobile' From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Fri Feb 3 10:48:58 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 10:48:58 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: RE: Jackob's Electronics For the question on how the omni-pak installs. I bought an Omni-Pak for my International Travelall but my engine was allready in top shape so I could not really tell instinctly how much gain I got from it. Also, I did not have it installed long enough to do any real tests ( I have to sell it to help pay for my new 1970 series IIA 88"). I am installing the Omni-Pak on the Rover now but I can not tell you of the performance increase there either as I am awaiting my gearbox from Scotty. When I get the Rover running maybe I will do some tests and report them back to the list. The Omni-Pak I bought came with zero impeadance cables to replace your stock plug cables. Here is the process: * Replace the plug wires * Get new spark plugs and change the gap from .030 to ~.055 Jackob's suggests Autolites and stresses NOT to use Split-Fires as they are a waiste of $$ and get fouled quickly. * Disconnect the High Tension lead from the coil to the distributor and attach it somewhere in the engine compartment or in your glove box. In the unlikely event the Jackob's fails you will need it. * Jackob's supplies a cable that grounds the original coil. Plug the cable into the coil and attach the other end to to the nearest ground. * Mount the Omni pack in a well vented area, not where it will be exposed to excessive engine heat. * Attach the Jackob's supplied high tension lead from Omni-Pack to the distibutor. There are only three wires left and one is a ground. * Attach the ground wire from the pack to a suitable ground. * Attach the red power wire (with inline fuse) to the positive battery term. * Finally attach the trigger wire to were the trigger wire attaches to the existing coil. * You are ready to rock n roll! Jackob's also told me that I could decrease the points gap to help save them. Apparently the Omni-Pack can, by measuring resistance accross the spark gap, reignite unburnt fuel, adjust for temperature, humidity, and preasure. They claim something like 98% fuel burning, which is pretty amazing if it is true. The internal coil can apparently send multiple sparks on one stroke if the flame goes out. If the Omni-Pak ever fails then all you have to do is unplug the grounding cable from your stock coil and reconnect the coil to the distibutor. That is it. No tools involved. Oh, by the way, I also bought Dr. Jackob's book on optimizing your ignition. In it he states that it is his oppinion and experience that Lucas is the absolute worst ignition there is and that Bocsh (sp?) is close to it. I do not recall what he thinks is the best. In his book he explains how to make a cheap system to measure your peak horse power, peak torque, etc... If people are really interested in some performance numbers for the Rover 2.25 then maybe I will set some tests up with and without the Omni-Pack Jason LaBranch | To find your way, look within! Parallel Products Group | -- AAA Road Atlas Sybase Engineering (510) 922-4690 | From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Feb 03 15:43:23 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 15:43:23 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Chris' wanderings Chris writes: none Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? none No. It should be relatively responsive (for a truck). Try the following: 1. Check tire pressures 2. Tighten spring shackles (loosen lock nut 1st). Check for disintigrating bushings (rubber missing or peeling out). 3. Check tie rod ends for looseness (look at each while someone rocks the steering wheel back & forth). Check steering relay in same fashion (and check it for oil). 4. Jack up each wheel & shake (the wheel, that is). Side to side & to to bottom looseness = bearing pre-load needs adjusting. Top to bottom only loosensess = worn swivel pins. 5. Adjust steering box (is there oil in it?). Loosen lock nut. Clean all the crud off the threads and spray WD-40 or something similar on the threads- work the adjuster until it turns freely. Turn it in gently until you begin to feel resistance. Tighten the locknut. 6. Check your alignment (toe in is the only adjustable part of the alignment). Ooops! Almost forgot! Oversized tires will make it wander too (duh). I run 235 70R-15s on my 88. It tracks pretty well on the highway. I hear other folks like 7.5R-16s even better. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 3 12:52:45 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:52:45 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with > the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with > the 3.9 diffs that are not yet installed. On the down side I'm having a > front driveshaft manufactured. Note the lack of reference to off-road performance. Just wait till he gets stuck in the mud from wheel spin, because there is no low end torque. This is another successful conversion from a Land Rover to an ugly Blazer. R, bg From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 3 12:54:31 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:54:31 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Land-Rover Tyres Chris, Regarding your questions about the tyres on your 1966 88" Land-Rover: >My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out >from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't >really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? I ran Armstrong Norseman Treadlok Radials in size 31x10.50x15 for years and was very happy with them. So happy in fact that recently, when I sold that Land-Rover to Jason LaBranch, I insisted on keeping them to put on another of my Land-Rovers. Mine are mounted on factory-looking custom steel wheels that are 8.0 inches wide. I have also tried putting 31x10.50s on the stock 6.0-inch-wide wheels. This did not work for me. They never would seat properly and so tended to go flat and were also, in effect, rather out-of-round, with the bead down in some places and up in others. The particular tyres that I tried this with, if it matters, were Firestone ATX all-terrains. Jory Bell, also on this list, though, has this size tyre on stock rims and his seem to seat O.K. You might ask him for more details on his experience with this set-up. I forget what brand his are. Although I was always concerned that I might get cited by the Highway Patrol for the tyres sticking out of the wheel wells, I never did (ran those wheels on that Land-Rover for roughly ten years and on another for a couple before that and 10" wheels for about five years before that). When I first put the wide wheels on this Land-Rover, I had trouble with wander and shimmy but this proved to be because of worn-out spring and shock bushings, low oil in the steering relay box, and worn-out tie-rod ends (ball joints). Once I oiled up the relay, adjusted the play in the main steering box, replaced all six ball joints, and replaced all spring and shock bushings, it was fine. I always intended to put on a steering stabilizer but never did. Hope this helps, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Morgan Hannaford Fri Feb 3 14:03:50 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Ahem, maybe Bill didn't read the fabulous storyline by our Rover-journalist Granville Pool. On that slick hill, in the dark, on our way out of the forest- mine was the only Rover to make it up on its own power. I attributed it to my being able to take the hill in a higher gear, hence greater continuous momentum and less wheel spin. Although I had tall tires (235-85-16), they were severely lacking tread (>40K miles on them). Oh, ya. I have a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... I'm not saying the Chevy mill conversions are better; Vance, Jory, and Jim went everywhere I went. Jory even "bounced" past me on one uphill section. But it works well for me and many other Rover owners. This purist attitude is fine, just like bible thumpin' christians are fine. Just don't judge the rest of us by your self righteous standards. In my not-so-humble opinion, the Land Rover was designed to be a flexible, all purpose vehicle. Many of them have been modified throughout the world to accomodate specific terrain or requirements. I talked to a guy from Canberra, Australia and he said all his "mates" have Rovers, but they all use Holden (G.M.) motors in them. It gets them to the fishing site, and are much less expensive to maintain. The simplicity and functionality of Land Rover is what makes them such a legendary vehicle, not some leaky cast iron block. Cheers, Morgan On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with > > the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > is another successful conversion from a Land Rover to an ugly Blazer. > R, bg From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 3 14:32:24 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:32:24 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... ^^^^^ not boat? and... do you have 3.9 diffs? Setting up a Land Rover as a Calfornia freeway cruiser does not make any sense to me. You can buy complete vehicles that are better suited for less that the cost of the adaptor. Why bother? Just my opinion, you are welcome to yours. Shall we ask Terri Ann if she ever put that Plymouth engine in her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better just leave it alone. R, bg From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Feb 3 18:13:01 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:13:01 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: land vs. range > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should > be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, > and he slept: and he took one of his oil leaks, and closed up the tranny > thereof..... hold it, hold it...you got it wrong here....this should read: Then, white man came along.....and he: > made a Range Rover..... always blaming someone for our troubles, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Feb 3 18:40:52 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:40:52 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant > Exhaust and radiator plumbing were unmodified. The only drawback is that > the starter is on the opposite side of the engine and nearly fouls the > front prop shaft. Robert plans on replacing it with a solid 1" shaft > rather than the tubular Rover unit to gain clearance. Because of the Wahoa, there.....*solid* 1" shaft??? Dis gonna work?? He gonna bust motor mounts??? The shaft has got to be able to move fore and aft as the front axle moves up and down, no??? Nigel had a frozen front prop shaft awhile back. Every bump I hit my tranny got jolted.... me don't thinks he can get away with a shaft that can't move..., but I'm sure Robert will figure it out, rd/nige From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 3 17:16:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 17:16:33 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In message <9502032232.AA13891@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell writes: > > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... > ^^^^^ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better > just leave it alone. > R, bg Nope, my TR3 stays stock..except for the DCOE Webbers, exhaust header, electric fan, external oil cooler, spin on filter adaptor...... However, having put over 250K miles on my Land Rover since '78, having put a second petrol tank under the drivers seat, having put a door in the side for access to the propane tank, having spent days on the road with truck drivers saying bad things about me over the CB, having ended up in first gear to pull a horse trailer loaded with two horses up a long grade, having a fully rebuilt Land Rover engine that is totally worn out at 11K miles from a fellow Land Rover owner pouring dirt in my engine, having to face a mew rebuild... That Mercruser motor is looking mighty good to me. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 03 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 03 Feb 95 20:56:35 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Wheels and steering Solihull ( Mecca) is E.S.E of Birmingham, often included in the Birmingham suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east midlands airport if that figures on your map. Chris your handling problems are associated with the wide tyres, if not the cause , certainly a contributor, try a tyre change first, even if it is only borrowing some from a friend to try, check your steering box, track rod ends, steering idler and swivel pin bearings. The wide tyres change the steering geometry in addition to catching every minorchange in the road surface. At best the steering is a bit woolly, learn to focus a hundred yards in front of you, not on the front of the bonnet ( hood ) and relax, do not try to chase minor deviations in course, hold the wheel steady and you'll go straight, start trying to correct minor deviations and you will forever be moving the wheel to and fro. the spoked steel wheels were introduced on the disco, and fitted to the fleet model range rovers. at the start most disco owners changed them for either the alloys or aftermarket wheels, there were plenty of used ones around in the UK for 15 to bucks each, the price has risen a bit since then, in the UK the 5.5' can be bought new for around 40 bucks. the UK 90'sand 110's are fitted with the standard pattern wheels fitted to ser 2a LWB's since 1968. some 90's were supplied with the earlier pattern rr rostyle wheels. the 7" wheels fitted to the 130 are very good, same as the forward control 110, of the late sixties. the alloys are very tough wheels, and if kept clean will stay in good condition for a long time, watch out for careless tyre fitters. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From sohearn@InterServ.Com Fri Feb 3 18:04:59 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:04:59 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: More! > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > our Lord 1970. Here endeth the lesson. > (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) Please go on! - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From RLZiegler@aol.com Fri Feb 3 22:03:11 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 22:03:11 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Marcus differential Marcus, Since you mention ten capscrews you have a Rover type differential. The torque on the crown wheel capscrews should be 35 ft/lbs on 8 capscrews and 45 ft/lbs on the 2 special capscrews ( the two with the slightly larger shoulder diameter). These special capscrews should be placed 180 deg. away from one another and should be torqued before the other 8 are. The 60-70 ft/lb torque you used is for the ENV type diffs. It's no wonder at least one of the capscrews sheered when you installed it at the higher torque. As for the steering, if you are experiencing play in the steering wheel when the vehicle is stopped then the information already given by Russel D. is a start. Look for other things that might be loose: steering relay parts, arms on swivel housings, and even road spring 'U'bolts. If what you are describing as steering play is wandering on the straight and level while moving, then what is probably wrong is tightness in the steering system. This is checked for by getting the front wheels off the ground and turning from lock to lock. If it feels stiff then the first thing I check is the steering relay resistance to rotation which should be not less than 12 lbs. or more than 16 lbs. I could go on but will stop here until further questions are asked. Rich Ziegler 63 SW 88 original owner 74 88 hardtop 3rd owner From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 04 02:14:05 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 1995 02:14:05 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: land vs. range Father Mills, keeper of Tomes, quotes from the Book of Whitworth... > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should ................. > chassis, and Lucas of my Lucas: she shall be called Range Rover because > she was taken out of Land Rover. And this came to pass in the year of > our Lord 1970. Here endeth the lesson. none Praise be the Woodruff Key! Actually, Rover tried to "upscale" the image of the Land Rover in the 1950's by trying to produce a more civilized Land Rover based vehicle. They used a P4 chassis with a 2WD drive train. The resulting vehicle was called a "Road Rover" but it never went into production. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:22:26 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:22:26 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Head Gaskets David- You mentioned these head gaskets that have problems. When I talked to Marty at British Pacific, he said the problem was only in the Gasket Sets, not the seperate LR head gasket. I hope he is right. My '73 has been completely rebuilt with a new 'high' performance head from Turner engineering. It has not been fired up yet, but I would sure hate to overheat it before I ever get to drive it! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:27:16 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:27:16 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Trailers RE: Trailers I agree that these are great/rugged trailers for the money. Have a friend who bought one (actualy one plus 2 parts) at an auction for $150. Went four wheeling. In our narrow canyons, this can be a problem. We got stuck at a dead end with this trailer on the back! Had to dis-connect and move the loaded trailer back by hand. Just be careful where you go off-road with this extra length/mobility liability! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:31:28 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:31:28 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Tires RE: Large tires I have seen a couple 'butchered' LR rims where they cut the centers out of a 16" LR rim and welded it to the rim portion of a Dick Cepeck (sp?) rim. These vehicles were running the 12.5 X 15's. Wandered all over the place, but I guess they do ok in the sand. Wouldn't recommend it! Also, check the toe value on the truck. Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:34:58 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:34:58 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Genesis RE: Genesis Tom- Enjoyed your Genesis. Did LR also eat the forbidden fruit of Leyland and therefore forced from the Garden of England - forced to toil from the land in Germany? Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Rdigecrest, CA From Roger Sinasohn Sat Feb 4 00:09:26 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 00:09:26 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics I've heard of Jacob's, and what I've read (not much) seems to be positive. The product that I'm most interested in of theirs is a doohickey that connects to the ignition with a spring-loaded toggle switch or pushbutton. If you don't hit the button within 5 minutes (or something) after starting the engine, it stops and won't start again. Sounds like a really neat anti-theft device. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 4 02:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 02:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Genesis redux Dixon is threatening to put Genesis in the FAQ, and he suggested that the proper context be established: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the jeep. And God said, Let there be Land Rover; and there was Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, that it was good; and God divided the Land Rover from the Toyota and the other abominations of darkness. < And God said, It is not good that the Land Rover should < be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] < (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and < Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) More you say? Well, Range Rover ate from the tree of BAE and fed some to Land Rover too, and God were none too pleased. So he drove Land Rover out of the garden of England, and he placed at the east of England beemers which turned every which way. As for the first murder, well, it can't be written until it happens. So, we skip to the flood... which brings us right up to the present day. But I'm sure you are all exceedingly rapturous about the revelation that God drove a Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 4 02:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 02:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Genesis redux Dixon is threatening to put Genesis in the FAQ, and he suggested that the proper context be established: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the jeep. And God said, Let there be Land Rover; and there was Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, that it was good; and God divided the Land Rover from the Toyota and the other abominations of darkness. < And God said, It is not good that the Land Rover should < be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] < (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and < Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) More you say? Well, Range Rover ate from the tree of BAE and fed some to Land Rover too, and God were none too pleased. So he drove Land Rover out of the garden of England, and he placed at the east of England beemers which turned every which way. As for the first murder, well, it can't be written until it happens. So, we skip to the flood... which brings us right up to the present day. But I'm sure you are all exceedingly rapturous about the revelation that God drove a Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 4 09:53:23 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 09:53:23 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Re: D90 Questions >Questions for the Defender 90 Community: >1. Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels? >Are they the same as the UK Defender steel wheels? The standard steel wheels on UK models are 5.50Fx16x33 and are not suitable for tubeless use (they don't have the bead retention ridge that tubeless tyres need for safety). Translated the figures mean 5 1/2" wide, 16" dia, and 33mm offset (from mounting face to centre of tyre) - does anyone know what the F means ? TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 4 09:53:46 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 09:53:46 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Injection Pump setting I run a 2.5Diesel 90 and have been given a Turbo kit for it. I figure it should be possible to increase the fueling without going to a specialist - can anyone tell me what the accessible controls on the injection pump do (apart from the idle and max speed settings which I already know) ? I'm not looking for ultra sophisticated matching between pump and turbo - I assume that would require some 'expensive' alterations to the pumps internals - just a bit more fuel to go with the increased airflow. TIA, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From FHYap@aol.com Sat Feb 4 14:50:29 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 14:50:29 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Trailer Bargains Does anyone know if the Trailer Bargains mentioned by Pierce Reid on 2/2/95 are available in the vicinity of the SF Bay Area? From Keerock2@aol.com Sat Feb 4 19:44:41 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 19:44:41 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Defender Legitimate? Thanks to many of you for the messages warning me of the can 'o worms I reopened the other day when I asked whether a Defender is considered legitimate by diehard LR fans. Nothing like a little controversy in my first submission. ;-) Then again, sounds like that debate's already been played out here on the net. -Dean Silliman -Lake Arrowhead, Calif., USA From Lloyd Allison Sun Feb 5 04:10:42 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 04:10:42 GMT From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Film There is a "modern" version of Don Quixote (maybe by Graham Greene) based around a dotty priest and his car. A film was made of it with Alec Guiness and Leo MacKern ? At some stage the Spanish police roll up in a L-R - a Santana of course. Can anyone fill in any details such as the name of the film? Lloyd From Steven M Denis Sat Feb 4 23:45:53 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 23:45:53 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... > ^^^^^ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better > just leave it alone. > R, bg> Sorry, I just have to jump in here.......I just spent 7 hrs. hauling a VW van through (make that *over*) the hills of Pennsilviania (sp?) and I was a wishin' and a beggin' for about 4 more liters..... That poor 109 just was *FLOOGGED* the whole trip.....would I put a more powerful engine in there? *OH* Yeah!........Many of us cannot afford the Land Rover to have it only as a toy...It has to "earn" it's keep...If I had the Dodge Power Wagon with the Cummings TD job, *It* would have gone to Harrisburg and back...(400 foot-pounds? What hills?) but I don't and I want the landy...so a repower is a logical idea....A Isuzu Trooper would have been a puddle of slag about 20 mins. into the trip...I live in the worst climate for automotive corrosion (per GM) so the aluminum body is a "Must"...Don't like to see them all cut up and panted yellow and pink, but a tidy engine swap is not the worst thing in the world....my 107 SW will have the original engine...and it will get towed to rover events behind a 110 with a V-8...*when* I can afford one...until then, it may get pulled behind a 109 w/ a V-8.... So I say keep 'em going anyway you can...and everyone should enjoy *their* ride and ignore the rest!.... steve From Steven M Denis Sun Feb 5 00:05:43 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 00:05:43 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Injection Pump setting All 2.5L Diesel owers....*DO NOT* listen to this! Ah ehm....Well....you have a Bosch "VE" series Pump or its licence equal...find the area of the pump where the fuel lines come out and go to the injectors...got it? this is a iron block thing....just forward of this is a little thingy with a wire on it..this is the shut-off solenoid...just up and toward the wing is a funny screw that has a slot in the end and a very small hex....there is a 13mm lock nut on it and a crimped metal band to limit how far the screw will go in...(this screw is in the same plane as the crank, ok?) this is the fuel delivery adjustment.....NEVER EVER EVER touch this.......*however* *IF* that band should rattle off... and the lock nut shake it self loose..and the bird of paridise should land on that screw and turn it *ever* so slightly in...this would cause excess fuel to be deliverd into the engine and it would be your job to fit a turbo to to supply the From Kelly Minnick Sat Feb 4 23:44:13 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 95 23:44:13 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Fuel Filler RE: Fuel filler Sorry - just one more thing. The fuel filler assembly I was going to get from my buds 'part' vehicle was all rusted and partially broken. Does anyone know of another parts vehilce that wouldn't mind giving up it's right-hand filler assembly in trade for some $$$ (needs to be somewhat reasonable) It may be cheaper to track down here in the States if I can, since the 4 or 5 phone calls to UK could cost as much as the part over there! They don't seem to want to call ME back (wonder why?). Let me know Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Russell U Wilson Sun Feb 5 08:49:42 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 08:49:42 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Tires....again Sorry to flog a dead, or nearly dead horse. The question remains though, what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing problems? No, I'm not a closet lift-kit/big engine/big Ford truckwith monster mudders/lots'o chrome and a union jack flapping in the breaze... person. I'm not looking to put big wide tires on my 88 just tall ones. I have 16" rims and was looking at 235/85/16 size tires. Just how tall can you go without running into problems? I understand how tires are sized ( what all the cute numbers mean) but I just need to know what is the tallest size that I can get away with. Cheers from Pittsburgh Russ From Sekerere@aol.com Sun Feb 5 09:10:48 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 09:10:48 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rovers Hi, am thinking of trying to buy and import a pre-1967 Land Rover to the US next time I am in England. We saw the most gorgeous Carawagon last night at a classic car show at a shopping mall in Phoenix, Arizona. We would like to look for something like that or at least a 109 that we can convert. Does anyone know what something like that would cost, and what it would take, and cost, to import it to the US?? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Chris W (There are cars, trucks, and 4wds, and then there are Land Rovers) From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Sun Feb 5 16:14:37 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 16:14:37 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D90: AUTHENTICITY To those who are questioning the diehardability of the Defender 90, let me add my two cents: I have had a half dozen and still own 3 series Land Rovers of various styles. I love them and wouldn't part with any of them. The things which endear them to us are well known - even by non-owners and legions of wannabes. The Defender 90? I will risk it all here and now and state emphatically that I believe that [it] is the penultimate result of all that embodies the Land Rover experience. The Defender 90? This is OUR beloved beast in modern trim. It is NOT a different car. Look at it for God's sake. The debate is pointless. All of the strengths are still there. Aluminum panels, simple functionality, hose-out interior, outstanding off-road performance. The weaknessess (most of them) have been banished. On-road performance. Poor heat, etc. What's different? Stone-reliable V8. 182 HP w/ 3675# curb weight. That means 80MPH in 5th gear! Turning 2600 rpm! It means brakes that will launch you through the windscreen! It means constant 4wd w/easy diff-lock at the flick of a knob at speed. It means a heater that will make you sweat when it's zero farenheit outside. And (gasp) air conditioning if you live somewhere you need it. Air cond. that will basially pop ice cubes - its that strong. A cage that will protect you and the car in a rollover. The same beloved form-follows-function sheetmetal. A chassis which is heavier, has a drainage system, and is better protected than the series frames. Enclosed cv joints. Basic retro-bility of old addons will still fit these 90s as well. This car will cruise at 85 mph all day long in fifth gear. Stop like a sports car. Multi-top system. Is this kind of stuff not something that would appeal to a diehard? I think not! I think that the Defender 90 is a bargain - even at its tariff-swollen price tag. Nice series cars are all beginning to break over 10-grand - full restos into the teens. Reread the above performance parameters and then tell me that a brand new Land Rover is not price efficient. Who trades in a series car? Right - nobody. Same w/Defender 90. You suffer through the payment book - and then its yours, forever! And when they go away, and those who suddenly want one can't get one - you who will have yours will appreciate the retained value - just as all of us series owners have for DECADES! Getting the picture? I think that the Defender 90 is the finest Land Rover ever produced. And it will be a sad day when it goes away. Don't take my word for it. Just go drive one. cheers Jim Roverheadus defenderatum berserkius jpappa01@interserv.com From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Feb 5 17:10:43 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 17:10:43 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch All, Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 foot of snow on the ground !!! Put a heater in the garage and lots of coffee !!! Anyway, I'm trying to bleed the clutch, with little or no success. Anyone tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? Mark From EvanD103@aol.com Sun Feb 5 21:14:52 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 21:14:52 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Misc. Questions Hi there! The resurrection of my 1973 Series 3 88" is proceeding more or less on schedule. After nearly 2 months of ownership I've had the frame sandblasted, primed, and repainted. It looks great. The new steering relay and suspension bushings were a lot easier to install than the old were to remove. Based on suggestions from others in this forum the relay was 'packed' in grease before installation. Someone will thank me for that in 20 years... Some questions: I'd like to clean and paint the springs before installing them with their new bushings. Any suggestions on paint? I'd hate for it to flake off the first time they flexed. I've disassembled the engine (only problem was beating out the seized pistons - engine hasn't run in years), and need to start buying replacement parts. Anyone had experience replacing the 'Rube Goldberg' designed chain tensioner with the newer alternative (looks like a conventional Reynolds pad type in the literature)? Do I only need the appropriate chain to go with it? Lastly, my oil pump is well worn and rusty (how can an oil pump rust?). I've come across 3 different part numbers for the assembly: The Land Rover parts b