From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 1 9:04:05 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 9:04:05 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Land Rovers in tv drama Tod, Not guilty milord.Twasnt me who said it wasnt worth cataloging Land Rovers on film.Honest! Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 1 9:15:40 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 9:15:40 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: LRs on Wings of Eagles Yep,I've read the book (yawn).Range Rovers,definitely.There a picture of them.The way they got them was clever.A loyal Iranian went round with stickers finding parked Range Rovers.The stickers read"If you want to sell this,telephone this number". They were eventually left as "gifts" for the border guards.Wonder how one becomes a border guard?.... Cheers Mike Rooth From ShaunC8958@aol.com Wed Feb 1 08:17:48 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 08:17:48 -0500 From: ShaunC8958@aol.com Subject: Wings of Eagles I didn't read the Ken Follett book--I heard it on tape several years ago during a long drive somewhere. I distinctly remember it was Range Rovers, not Land Rovers, that Perot chose for their trek across the desert. I seem to recall they bought five for $20,000 a piece (this was nearly 20 years ago) because they were "the best four-wheel-drives in the world." I rembered that line when I had the chance to buy mine last year... Shaun Carrigan '88 RR From "David McKain" Wed Feb 1 09:03:06 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:03:06 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: New Subscriber Greetings and Salutations I recently entered the world of Land Rover ownership by purchasing a '66 Series IIA 88" hard top. Currently, the vehicle is reduced to bits and pieces for body/frame work. A few of my co-workers are current and former LR owners from South Africa and have been a great help in fixing the engine, gearbox, and in general figuring out where everything goes. Initial faults with the vehicle were a broken cam follower (the last engine rebuilder didn't check to see if the pushrod was squarely in the follower socket), broken bushing in gearbox (kept jumping out of 3rd gear when engine braking), various electrical problems and rust. Because the last owner put a camo black-green paint job on (by hand) I was forced to strip the body down to bare aluminum and treat body surfaces with dupont 225S and 226S before priming. The local Napa store mixed a light green and dark green from color charts from '66. The dark green (Arden Green) is a bit darker than I had thought but looks nice. I'm still staring at a major cash setback on all of the body seals and window channels (all that was left was a little felt and a lot of green fungus and moss). I have two major questions: 1) The exhaust doughnut is partially eaten away although the rest of the exhaust is fairly new. Is there any way of fixing/replacing the doughnut for less than the cost of a new front exhaust piece ($55-60 US) and 2) My insurance agency will not give comprehensive coverage for my LR. When I finish the car after putting in hundreds of hours and a load of cash, I'd like to know how much the guy in the BMW (ha, ha) talking on is car phone when he broadsided me will have to cough up to fix/replace the vehicle (Officer, I think my neck hurts : translation - I didn't ever think I could afford that new Defender 90 I had my eyes on until now). In closing, I'd like to say that it's nice to know that if I run into any difficulties along the way that there is a place like this where I can get much needed information. From "David McKain" Wed Feb 1 09:36:39 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:36:39 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: get lro-digest faq.complete David McKain 540 Burroughs St. Morgantown, WV 26505 USA From Jimmy Patrick Wed Feb 1 09:50:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:50:23 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: 10 a penny? Mike said: >Discos are ten a penny here. Mike, I have a jar full up with pennies. I'll send you one penny, you send me 10 Discoveries. Thanks. This sounds even a better deal than those questionable Defenders in lots of 25 in the states. This isn't a scam is it? The penny is in the mail. Cheers! jimmy patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 1 11:44:22 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:44:22 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: New Subscriber That "do-nut" is part of the pipe...and (drawing on *vast* sad experiences) any repairs are unlikley to be worth the time and effort....Just how many times *DO* you want to take that pipe off and on?...believe me...if there was a way to save a buck!.......... steve........ "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Wed Feb 1 17:04:11 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 17:04:11 GMT From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Subject: Message from an Irish Reupblic based LRO --========================_6848204==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Enclosed is one attachment for the LRO daily digest. --========================_6848204==_ Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="internet_first_letter" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="internet_first_letter" (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :&@PZG'9bEQ9d)'CTFR0d)'aPG(4PFJ"A4%*1690A4!%!!!!-!!!!!!"a8[ih!#- !!!!!!!!%!!!C!!!!!!!!!!!"!!!!"*8!!!Z8!!!!!!!!!j8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!S!!"S!!!S!!"S!!!SD!!!!!!SD!!!!!!SD!!i!!!SS!") !!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!S!!!T%!!S!!!T1!!!!!!T1!"S!!!TS!(J !!!Sk!!!!!!VJ!#!!!!X!!"N!!!X`!#S!!!YD!!!!!!SD!!!!!3!"!!!,-!!!!!! ,'3!A!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,@J!k!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!! ,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!"86cSJ3@aX)%CPE'a[Gb"-B@jN)&*[GQ9b)#"&ER4SGA0TBA0 dFb"AEh*XC(GTC'8JGfK[)'KKF("PEL"dEb"LC5"[EL"dD'8J5@jdCA*ZCA30$8C 56ddk)&4[ERNJ6(9MDhGTE'`X)&*PF(9LE'PM)'pQ)%PbC@aKEQ3Z$3e%C@&b)%& XE#`0$8TeFh3JB5"cD'pbG#"ZEh4P)(4[)(0KH5"dD'&d)%NJB@dJFQ9cF'pZFfP LE'8JCQpb)(0PG(4TEQFJGA!JG'KP)#KQDA*cG#"PGQ9b)'&dG'9YF(3T)%PbDA0 S)%aKEQ3J8QpfCA)J6hGZCA)RFb!Q)%9ZG'KeFfPKFh4c)%0XG@)JG'KKG#"MBA4 PFR-JCQpb)'&XE#"TER4PFQ9cG'9N)("PFR0[ER-JEfBJFh9MD#"KEQ3JG'KP)'0 XG@)JBf&dCA*c)'C[FL"dD'8JGfK[E'8JEfBJG'KP)&*PF(9LE'PM)'pQ)%PbC@a KEQ3Z$3e*)(G[G@aN)'*P)'KKF("j)(4[)'KPBA)JCR*[E5"KERP[EQ8JGfK[)(G TFfKPFb"dEb"MEfjfCA*cC5"-8LGc)(GTG'JJE@8JB@jN)'ej)'CPE'a[Gb"ME(9 L)'ePE@*PFR-Z$3eAC5"KFQ8JEh*RB@jTFfPZCb"cCACPFQ&X)'9fC@jdFb"NGA* TEQFJ-6Nj05`J)%NJGfPXE#"VC@9`)(P[G5"KE'`JF'pcG'9N)'&LEh9d)(4SC@d JBA3JFf9XC@0dC@3JD@jdCA*fB@ac)(4SFQpeCfK[GA3JG'KP)(PPBA)Z$3e-Efp VD@jR)'C[FRGKFQ3JG'mJD'9KFQPZCb"QFQpY)(P[G5%K$3eP,@eKD@`k)'eKFQX JB@aX)'0[FR*PFh"[EQ4PEQ0P)'C[FL!JEANJBA4dC@jdD@pZ)$SJGQPK)(*XG@0 VGfaX3'eKD@`ZG'0N,QPP$3e8C@aPF'K[EQ8JE@8JC'PbC@0d)'&d)'K[E@8k)'4 TB@`JH@peFL"TER3Z)'0[C'8JG'KPEL"E-c8cA5!S+$!T-5NJ0$8j)$-e-MBZ$3e AFQPdC5"dEb"YC6SJ9'pZH5"-G@0VGfPXE#`J)$3b)%e[EQ&cG'9bH5"AB@aV,#! J3fa[EQ4KE'YTEL`J)%4eBQaTEL!b-L`J)!d*#3N*#3P5CA"eBQaTBb"[CL"*FQ9 XB@jN,Jd03fKPCA*c)5%0$3*e!2[Cd+52p[2lhXZkQIEJ[jI+VmhST1V+KH')[HE eQiAk`E2[Y-1&qTrhU28!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!V[c[U0l"V*qcp+MHbkl0mZrleX' ML2$eXX(!kB6pmUr5a+h0r1Il`mfXcI,PVG,AUmhST1V+L`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#Zr1qShX'XRl2LXpE,VS6pj[[BeqQ*pZfq`mbRLV2krSEBj`! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,Rlj2[ (ekb,p[1TdX(TRZ2NYp[-TiUclVfAhZcFlU'ba)@5b+(Fp3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Z1$NqpR3T)MKi,I%KD#$i2@qeX( TJ[@KS*+8Y-hklr[6a,f)i+m!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3! !!!58!!!%P3!!"*Mp!2F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!#J"!!!)B!!!!!"J!"!!3!"3$!!!"!!!!!9)!!!&6!!!"I3!!!Ai !!!')!!!"L3!!!RN!!!*k!!!#h`!!!Z!!!!0J!!!$B3!!!iF!!!1)!!!$e3!!!pB !!!3M!!!%*!!!"'m!!!5+!!!%L`!!"*3!!!59qr[lqr[lp[[aqr(lqr[lqr[lqr[ lqq`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3!!!%J@!!2!!!%!!!#)&J!$!!!"!!!!b"B!!` !!!3!!!%J@!!-!"F!!!!$!!!("!!3!!-!#JF!!!!!!!!"!!%!hJ!!!!!!!!19!!) !!!59!!!!!!!!!j83!2rr!!!!!3!!!!!"!!!!"*J!!`!!!3!!!!59!!3!!!!#!!- !"!!1!"!!%J!8!"8!&J!A"!%*d`!-!!!!5!")!!!!!!-J!M$rl2r[!c3#3@3#"AJ $hJ%!!!!"D!&S!!!!!!qJ#[!!!3!!!'3!!3!!!!%!!!!!!!%R$`!"!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$rR2qV%!3,43!)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!%'J,QJ &S!@J"D!&S!,3!Y"#!!!"!!%!!8)!!!!!!!")!"N3,6T6G(PXC9GbDA4PFL"*53! +!!!!!!!#!!!!!`C(C@jPGQ%!!!!8"94TE@9c`!%"!!!!!j3!!!18!!D!!)!!!!! $P!!!!!!!+!!I!G8#'3!S!"m!qJ)C!$S9D@jdCA*ZCA3JCQPbFh3JE'9dG'9b!!j 5EfGPFL"-G@0VGfPXE!!!$P*[Cf9b)%aeBfYhD@aX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*MU!!! !: --========================_6848204==_-- From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 09:41:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:41:41 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Mendo Forest Recon Pt3 Ahem, Well, now, what to do? Actually, in Part 2, I neglected to mention that we had earlier stopped at the foot of the Sylar Springs trail to consider the time and what we would do when we got to Bartlett Springs. Would we turn toward Highway 20 (and home) or on to Letts Lake. Or maybe out to Highway 20 via the longer route over Hough Ridge and around the Indian Valley Reservoir. As you will see when you join us in April, there are so many alluring possibilities... Just as we were about to move on again, out of the mouth of the Sylar Springs trail came a full-sized Ford pickup-load of yahoos, right out of Deliverance with a couple of good ol' boys in front and a couple more (armed with shotguns, casually pointed up into the drizzle), and, of course, the requisite "b'ar dawg" in the back. Hanging off the front bumper was a hitch-mount winch, you know, the kind that you carry in the back until you need it. Appartently they needed it to reduce their approach angle to about 20 degrees. So when we couldn't cross the creek, we started speculating about that trail. Could we? Should we? Of course we knew we shouldn't; although we told ourselves it was not too late, it was. In our hearts we knew it. Was it hard to talk everyone into trying it? No. The opinion was unanimous, "If those yehus could make it, so could we. A cooler head (was that you, Walt?) suggested that, before we turned our tracks onto that trail, we examine their tracks to determine whether they had simply come from somewhere or come and gone. We examined the tracks for some time and discussed it some more finally someone (Vance?) reasoned, hey, we could go check it out faster than discussing it. Silly, huh? But now you know how we managed concensus of eleven brilliant minds... Up the trail we went. Challenging but no problem for such stalwarts as we! Big ol' waterbars, ruts, down trees, lots of brush. Eventually, Vance (now in the lead), Jory, and I ground to a halt. What happened to the rest of them. Vance on the CB (gotta get me another one before the Scouting Outing II). Trouble in paradise; Jim was not making it up the hill. Aw, come on, Jim, you CAN do it. He did, once he found low box (just pull the red handle back, old boy). We all moved ahead again but soon stopped once more. This time, it was the views that stopped us. Now, there were some fine views earlier but you gotta look hard for ones like this. We were atop a ridge which was open meadow, with sweeping views in all directions for many, many miles. Wow. This is what we came here for! Considering how we had often been completely in the clouds, it seems remarkable that now, when we were up so high, the view was clear for miles. On our right, we could see down to Wild Bill Place, from whence we had come, now quite far distant. To the left, miles away and maybe a couple thousand feet below, was a deep valley with a most impressive waterfall. Must go there next time! Wait, stop. Melanie just brought me an envelope from OVLR. Whoa, Dixon, thanks! It's the newletter that I have heard so much about. O.K., O.K., I'll finish this, THEN open it. Grumble, grumble, grumble... Oh, back to the ridge. You have to come and see it, really. Actually, part of what stopped us was that Vance's engine had lately been running on about two cylinders, apparently moisture in the distributor (we'd gone through a *couple* of puddles). He got it running well enough, we all got some fotos, and grudgingly continued on. The trail started falling off fairly rapidly and the scenery changing dramatically, from scattered pine stands and meadows to chemise brush. The soil was different, too, more clay but also more rocks. As the trail started to really drop off, Vance suddenly halted again. I thought more ignition trouble and went to investigate. No. Having started to slide sideways and get squirrelly as the slope became quite steep, he was having second thoughts about continuing. By now it was nearly 4:00 P.M., I think. The decision should really have been instant: Turn back. Not us. Vance, Holly, Jory, and I (is that right) walked (and slid) all the way to the bottom of the grade, maybe a quarter mile or less. Yes, there was yet another creek at the bottom but one we could easily cross. The trail beyond the creek looked alright, as far as we could see. But the steep downslope was quite rutted, had sizeable rocks sticking out (with our oil pans as targets), and other unsavory obstacles. Well, we could surely get down it but could we get back up it? What if, as we by now realized was more than likely, we'd get stopped somewhere farther along? Oh, we probably could all climb it O.K. but someone said he'd sooner spend the night than climb THAT in the dark. Too right. Enough, I said. Hard as it is to accept that we have to go back the same way we came in, that's what we must do. And so we did. Now, you'd figure that if we came all that way with no serious problems, we could just as easily go back, right? Wrong. Mud bath in the dark, in Part 4. Granville Pool, Redwood Valley, CA "Road-I-Land-Rovers" P.S. This message was delayed because of problems with the mail host at Pacific Internet. Sorry for this and for any mail that's getting bounced back to you. Apparently my mail is going to be iffy for about a week, Pacific waiting for a new disk, unless he can get a backup in there for the interim. If you have trouble sending me mail, please send it to my alternate e-mail address: Granville_Pool@RedwoodFN.org Thanks, Gran From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 1 18:44:50 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 18:44:50 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Sliding Hi There's been some discussion on the list about braking without sliding. This morning i stopped by at the grocer's to get some coffee to take to work. I didn't want to park at the small parking lot, - if someone else parked i wouldn't be able to get out (109"). So i backed up and turned the rear to a wall where i could park without being in the way of others. The car was hardly moving but the surface was ice with water on top. BANG! The light "cages" and the trailerhook saved the rear lights. But i'll have to get new nets. The nets was pressed against the lights and stopped 0.000001 mm (approx) from the glasses. Another thing. The city busses has a better turning ratio than Aurens. Except when it's snowing. On my worn tires i turn the wheels all the way and hit the accellerator then suddenly lift my foot. The car will start to turn. When it's pointing in the right direction i press the pedal and let got of the steering wheel. The wheels will turn straight immediately and i can proceed. Slow motion powersliding is FUN!. But it won't improve the fuel economy!! Have FUN. sv/aurens From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Feb 01 09:03:13 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 09:03:13 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts So far my favorite advert is a photocopy of one that I just got in the mail from my parents. (And no I don't know, offhand, where they got it). The photo is a US Defender 90 in the woods/jungle. The large font title under the picture is "What to drive in places where your're the food" The advert ends with: "While it's not exactly the least expensive 4x4, the Defender offeres you that invaluable old English option. To be or not to be." -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 11:17:46 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:17:46 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Rover Turbine Roy, You asked about the history of the Rover Turbine. Somewhere I've got some articles on this car. I'll try to remember where and get back to you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 13:10:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:10:23 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Rovers on TV If someone has already mentioned it, I appologize for bringing it up again. On the Loejoy Mysteries series on the A&E cable channel (my favorite show on telly right now), Lovejoy's sortagirlfriend Lady Jane Felsham drives a Range Rover most of the time (Ardennes Green). There are often other Land-Rovers shown. Bad guy in a recent episode drove a Discovery. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 01 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 01 Feb 95 17:22:49 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Rover Gas Turbines The sons f the rover gt are still around today, in the sixties the Alvis Co, linked to Rover inthe BL days, made the gas turbines, in the late sixties they sold the design / manufacturing rights to a company called Rotax Aircraft Eqipment, a company that I worked for at the time, this company was a subsidiary of our friend JOE, later became known as Lucas Aerospace Limited. They marketed a single shaft 60 hp engine for universities and colleges to demonstate heat engines etc and dyno's, specific fuel consumption and all that. this engine was also used as an auxiliary power unit on the cross channel hovercrafts. They also marketed a twin shaft 150 hp engine which was used as an auxiliary power unit in the Nimrod aircraft. A futher development was the gas turbine engine starter for the Pegasus engine in the Harrier jump jet which needs to be able to operate in isolated places. A 75 hp version, It was on this particular ptoduct that I first visited the US in 1978 when we installed a starter in the Harrier AV8 B aircraft that was built by Mcdonnell Douglas in St Louis Mo. These engines are still built today by Uncle Joe. Back in the UK I have some original sales brochures from Rover for the engines and further technical details if anyone wants more info. The above is from my memory which is suffering from the past twenty years of working in the aluminium business, the dates are approximate. Regards Bill leacock Limey in Exile From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 1 17:53:22 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 17:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rovers on TV On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Granville Pool wrote: > If someone has already mentioned it, I appologize for bringing it up again. > On the Loejoy Mysteries series on the A&E cable channel (my favorite show on > telly right now), Lovejoy's sortagirlfriend Lady Jane Felsham drives a Range > Rover most of the time (Ardennes Green). There are often other Land-Rovers > shown. Bad guy in a recent episode drove a Discovery. If I recall correctly, Lady Jane's Range Rover is a Vogue SE. With the front spoiler etc. it was a very rare RR in the UK at the time. Last weeks episode had a 127 with Electrical Board markings on it parked outside his house. Others? Lots besides Dr. Who. The Avengers is another good source as are a great many (too many to list) British television series. From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Feb 1 19:11:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 19:11:23 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Window Sealant Kelly asks: > RE: Window Sealant > Ok. Everyone has probably talked this to death. But now that I have finished [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > I place the sealant in the center of the window channel, or towards one edge > or the other? Me also ponders this question. Nigel leaks from the driver's side window, and the leak hits me dead on the clutch foot (LHD), usually right where the tongue of my shoe enters the shoe (ie the point where water gets your foot wet instantly). For quite some time I just got used to moving my foot around, but I've gotten sick and tired of having Nigel all humidified after a storm....so a week or so ago, after some heavy rains, I decided to remove the trim and try to stop the leak. I only used silicon sealant to patch up and fortify the places where the rubber trim had gone awry (do it Earl!-Schibe, that is). It appeared to me that the trim left may have been "butyl"...a really goooey rubber, but it didn't appear to be rope shaped. It was flattened out somewhat, and there appeared to be the same material but of different shape for the center section. It *may* be that the shape was initially "round like rope" but that with 35+ years of compression under the trim it assumed its current conformation....The RN catalog lists "Sealer for Glass-sold per meter" ($5.70/meter, but this is the 1991 catalog and most prices have actually come down since then, perhaps due to all our bitchin' and an upswing in awareness of the competition). I would suggest that what you have may be the correct stuff, or near enough. I'd try to place it around the edge of all of the glass, in between the edge and the metal framing where ever possible. You may find difficulty getting your trim back on, especially if 1/4" turns out to be too thick, as I even had some minor problems, even with a spritz of silicon. But, perhaps someone who has actually completed a *total* resto might have some better advice. rd/nige From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 1 21:03:32 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 21:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Window Sealant The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is more or less sticky.(there are *2* versions it seems) and it is folded over the glass and therefore seals both the glass-to-metal seams...this is very important as glass does *not* have a sense of humor....if one uses the round "tape" on both sides of the glass, the pressure is too great and the screen cracks.....if you install it on one side only, the metal to glass seam causes the screem to break....gawd what a pain! I'm just *guessing* all this....*I* would never ever actually *break* a windscreen...(liar liar liar liar liar!) Pay the 7.50per......otherwise cries of anguish will fill the night..... steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From sohearn@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 1 18:38:49 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 18:38:49 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Defender 90 Questions Pierce wonders about the 90: Steel wheels Never seen 'em except in the sales literature I used to have (sorry). I'm sure you can get 'em. Probably through a parts outlet after you've paid for the alloys. They have five large spokes and are not unlike some Italian sports car rims. Spare on hood Seen Tdi's in England with 'em so it should only be a matter of parts (mount and supports?). Insurance No problem. Premium seems proportional to sales price. Actually better since with State Farm you seem to pay the same whether it's stripped or loaded. Used Defender's Some others on the list have mentioned seeing ads and I heard of one second- hand but otherwise with only 1468 in 1994 they're going to be relatively hard to come across. 7500 miles later Doing fine. Other than a few glitches the only headache has been a parking brake that just loves to catch the drum. Right now it's backed off pretty far. I think the dealer's going to get an opportunity to check it out real close not to mention I don't think they know what a fender cover is. Hope this is useful! - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 1 19:55:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 19:55:41 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D90 bonnet tire mount There is a genuine parts mounting kit for the D90/D110 bonnet. No problem. Chris Velonis put it on his 110 over a year ago w/no problems. UK and abroad can get it at their local emporiums - North America can obtain from RN or other parts houses - not dealer available at this time. We've not received a single D90 at the dealership w/steel wheels. Yes, they are same as UK-spec. One problem was that the wheels were delayed due to DOT approval! Everything was sent in as alloys since they were already approved for Range Rover. The steel wheels are not the classic solid steel wheels of Series cars. They are (my opinion) rather hideous looking slotted steel rims which degrade the overall appearance of the D90. I think the alloys are a much smarter rim and have held up (two winters) around here at least quite well. But, beauty is in the eye... Good luck! Jim Roverheadus defenderonium amazonius From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:26:43 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers in Movies Kieth tells of lions and Land Rovers... > There's an old British technicolour movie from around 1955 called > "Simba" - - basically an action feature to do with the Mau-Mau in > colonial Kenya. > More to the point, there's lots of Series 1's -- at one stage a > lion jumps into an open-topped SWB to say howzit to the hero behind Here's another oldie... "Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion" (Disney??) My favorite scene has Clarence "driving" an open-top SerI (or II.. I don't remember). The Rover goes right through some couple's safari campsite. The wife exclaims "Wasn't that a lion driving that jeep?" and the husband, very proper British, sitting in a canvas chair, smoking his pipe and reading the paper, looks up for a moment and says "It was a Land Rover, actually." Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:27:19 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: New Subscriber David.. Well.. another fool.. er, fellow has joined the ranks! Welcome! A finer bunch of madmen cannot be found anywhere else! As to your insurance question. You may want to try an appraiser for an "official" value. As to insurance, you might want to consider an antique car policy. It's cheap, and you can insure the vehicle up to whatever amount you want. There are drawbacks however. Most policies have limitations on how much you can drive. You can probably find appraiser and insurance info in "Hemmings Motor News". If you have never seen it, it's a monthly publication which caters to the old car hobby. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:26:54 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:26:54 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Message from an Irish Reupblic based I think they better cut back on the Harp's... Roger's sending us gibberish! > --========================_6848204==_ > Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="internet_first_letter" [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) > :&@PZG'9bEQ9d)'CTFR0d)'aPG(4PFJ"A4%*1690A4!%!!!!-!!!!!!"a8[ih!#- etc, etc Gee Roger.. now I gotta find BinHex..!! Cheers Mike From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 22:10:58 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 22:10:58 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Mendo Forest Recon Pt4 Headin' home: I seem to recall Morgan's saying, "Just a straight shot out of here." Or something to that effect. And, indeed, it did seem that nothing could be simpler. In the daylight. Oh, yeah, it was getting pretty dark by now. The weather channel had said sunset at 5:30 but that's in clear weather and not in the mountains. And we had forgotten just how many of those unmapped and unmarked trails there were. Several times, when we came to an intersection, we would have to stop to study it. Morgan, fortunately, had a very powerful plug-in spotlamp to shine up the roads. Even so, they tend to look pretty different in the dark. Thankfully, Holly had an unerring recall of where we were. It took longer than we bargained for to get out but we didn't actually make any wrong turns. Like Morgan said, just a straight shot. Until. Until we came to a rather long hill that we had gone down earlier without a glitch. Morgan, in the lead, got up just fine. Jim was next and got maybe half way before his Rover slid off to the left and would go no more. The rest of us waited with trepidation at the bottom of the hill while he struggled to gain a foothold. No hope. We all got out and ran (well, no, actually you could ba-a-arely walk on this slippery stuff) up and started pushing. How many pushers can get behind a Land-Rover before you have to push on someone else? About five. We pushed, our feet slid, our shoes being sucked off our feet at each step, while Jim finessed the throttle. "Hey, someone yell at him to turn his wheel to the left, he's plowing with his front tyres!" This for about fifty feet until the slope flattened somewhat and he could gain some headway. Who's next? Each of us tried to get up without help and each got to about the same place (now pretty chewed up) where Jim had slid off. More pushing. Last up was Vance and he got about the least far (road getting more chewed up and snotty with each attempt) and slid off to the RIGHT, into a shallow ditch and almost hard against a high, vertical bank. Now, how in the hell do we get out of this one without a winch? Certainly not by having someone who'd already made it up roll back down and give a tow. Leave him? Naahhh, couldn't do that to a swell fellow like Vance. In the early days of automobiles, it was common for teams of horses to pull them out of the mud. Whinny. Just wrap that snatch strap around the front bumper and each of the end loops can serve as a handle for one or two pullers (ersatz equestrians). And the rest in back as pushers, with one or two pushing with the feet against the bank. This actually worked but was scary, I'll tell you. Morgan and I were pulling on one strap end and Walt on the other (as I recall). I say scary because we were in front, rather close, and no telling when he might break free and suddently lurch forward. Come to think of it, under the circumstances, this was probably wishful thinking. But Walt nearly had his feet right under the front tyre and not much room to jump out of the way. Jump? Not unless you wanted to leave your shoes behind (I very nearly did, once). Eventually, though, we all reassembled at the top of the hill and pressed forward. We were definitely still in the woods but out of the worst of the mud. It continued to be pretty slippery but we didn't have any more hills that long and steep to conquer. The worst now seemed to be the downslopes, at least from where I sat, behind Morgan, watching his rear do a little huFrom rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Thu Feb 2 10:14:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 10:14:25 GMT From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Subject: Repeat letter For those who cannot decode Mac attachments the letter reads: TO: All Fellow Land Rover Enthusiasts Worldwide who happen to be on the Internet FROM: Tony Luckwill, Republic of Ireland. Dear All, Just a short note to say that I am responsible for setting up the (first ever attempt) Irish Land Rover Owner's & Enthusiasts Club that caters for all interested persons of such and the club caters for the whole of the Republic of Ireland. I would be happy to hear from anyone who wishes to converse LR's with me and my fellow club members. We are organising several events during 1995, I will keep you all posted about them at selected intervals throughout the year. Looking forward to hearing from you!! e-mail: mark all correspondence for my attention : via rluckwll@mail.tcd.ie Telephone me direct at home: dial your int. code then [353] ((0)1) 459 3526. Write to me: Tony Luckwill, 42 Monastery Walk, Clondalkin, Dublin 22, Republic of Ireland. Cheers!! Tony From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Feb 2 09:49:08 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:49:08 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Window Sealant > Subject: Re: Window Sealant > The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is none I used black silicone rubber goo stuff (RTV). Just fold the frame down so gravity is your helper. I cut four little spacers from some foam rubber (black) about 1/16" thick. Stick the spacers on the frame, close to the four corners so that they would space the glass away from the frame. Run a nice generous bead of your favorite silcone goo around the frame and spacers. Lay the glass into the goo. Run an other bead around the glass, and screw the retaining stripps into place. Clean up the excess with a wet finger or your tounge or what have you. oooh... yucky sticky. get it a neat as possible before it sets. After it sets up you can trim with a razor blade around the edge. Nice. Mines been in for 12 years like that. It ain't gona leak. CU, bg From jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 2 08:50:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:25 -0800 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: Re: New Subscriber >> ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail >> lamp whilst parallel parking ;) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course > it had buckled that high... :-) I have wire baskets on the reverse lamp (or it would have gone as well) but I've been too cheap to get them for the tail lamps. Alas, it was a pole with which I surgically whacked the yellow tail-lamp. So precisely, that while the lense completely vaporised, the bulb and plastic housing were completely unscathed! go figure... -jory From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Thu Feb 2 11:20:53 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:53 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Jacob's Electronics Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from Jacobs Electronics? They have a gizmo they are selling called the Omnipack that sits between (from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and just uses the points as the trigger. I guess it is sort of like the Crane/Allison unit but you don't get the optical trigger. Your points in this system are supposed to last 5 or 6 times longer (this is one claim among the many I have heard from them). I do like the fact that you keep the points which seems to be in keeping with the simple mechanical nature of the truck and with the way the wiring setup is if the Jacobs thinged failed you could just switch a few wired and be back to stock. I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them. Best- Greg PS - Is there a general consensus on electric cooling fans? Do they do anything for performance/economy or are they just a not worth it? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Greg Hiner (512) 475-7243 Computer Support hiner@mail.utexas.edu Garrison Hall 318 University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712 From jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 2 08:50:21 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:21 -0800 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: those new 110's I've heard a whole new set of "info" on these from non-rover net surfers i know. they claim these vehicles were donated by the british government to "desert slaughter" (err, i mean storm) and that they are in crates sans wheel, fluids, etc. Someone somewhere said they need about $3500 in work/parts to be mobile. A couple people offered to send me their archives of info on these (I politely declined), and at least one guy i know is supposedly part of a group trying to buy a lot of 25. My interest is, shall we say, somehwhat tempered by my better judgment ;) -jory >Subject: those new 110's >From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >Or is is that you guys were just too embarassed to tell us that you got >suckered. From Jimmy Patrick Thu Feb 2 11:20:03 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:03 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: lro ftp site lro netters, Is the ftp site gone? I looked for Ray Harder's ftp site of the lro-digests and I can no longer get in as anonymous. I also asked Majordomo who was subscribed to lro and Ray is not on the list any more (as far as I can tell--are you out there Ray??) I have a machine where we can put the old digests if lulu is no longer available. Does anyone else have a load of old digests? I have all of 93 on my system here. Does anyone care to have them archived? Jimmy Patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Thu Feb 02 10:39:05 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 10:39:05 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Rover/BRM Racer I've tried posting several messages directly to Roy in the Rockies, but each time they get bounced back as "user unknown". This happens whether the mail reader does the addressing or I do it...so Roy, this cuppa JP5 is for you.... The Rover/BRM turbine race car was developed for the 1965 LeMans race. The first Graham Robson book shows it in a very Rover-like pose...the bonnet up and several engineer-types peering into the engine bay. More interesting is the transporter used to haul the vehicle to the track. It's a forward control (and in 1965, one of the very first) with a special "kneeling" suspension in the back. With the rear axle removed, the load bed could be lowered almost to ground level so the car could be rolled up easily into the back. And while I've got your attention, I've replaced or refitted all the glass using the butyl "rope" stuff. More appropriately, it is a "tape" and get the thinnest stuff available - 1/16" thick by about 1/4" wide. For the windscreen, the stuff needs to be applied to inner and outer surfaces, not the edges. When you do it right, the edges of the glass won't contact the frame anywhere...not even at the bottom (use wooden shims to hold in place temporarily). Same holds true for the fixed glass in the front doors, but here only the outside gets the butyl. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "DAVE MCKAIN" Thu Feb 2 08:34:38 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:34:38 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Land Rover Turbines I have been notified that one of the turbine engines used for LR's was donated to someone in SA who is no longer there and currently resides in some sort of museum. Sorry that the facts are sketchy but the info is second hand. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From "DAVE MCKAIN" Thu Feb 2 08:46:18 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:46:18 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Head Gaskets I spoke to the gentleman at British Pacific about the potential cooling problems with recently supplied 2.25 liter petrol head gaskets (part # RTC3335). I was told that the gasket missing the coolant ports from cyl's 2, 3 and 4 has a grey composite surface towards the head while the proper head gasket has a brown surface. I checked the one I just installed (from the small portion of the gasket protruding from under the front of the head) and, luckily, it was the proper gasket. BP has contacted Land Rover but has yet to recieve any information. I purchased this head gasket 7 Dec 94. I would still like to get some more information before I thrash the vehicle this May so if anyone knows anything more about these head gaskets, please drop me a message. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 02 Feb 95 08:51:30 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion Folks: Does anyone have a copy of Clarence the cross-eyed lion? I'd love to see it. I'll swap a copy of Crack in the World (which is also loaded with Land Rovers). Thanks for all the answers on the D90. There is a very enthusiastic gentleman out in Reno who is interested in the Sgt Major and who I think will give it a great home, so I am getting rather excited about the prospect of a D90 in the spring! Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 2 09:11:05 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:11:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: New Subscriber On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote: > ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail > lamp whilst parallel parking ;) Wire baskets for the tail lamps. Smashed another tail lamp whilst parallel parking? What did you hit? Tail lamps are just a wee bit high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course it had buckled that high... :-) Rgds, From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 02 Feb 95 09:02:12 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Trailer Bargains Folks: As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my problems! Over Christmas, I bought a U.S. Military trailer built for M-151 and surplused when the military switched to Hummers. These trailers are incredible and are generally available for 100-400 dollars in good to excellent shape. The one I bought was totally reconditioned by the Marine Corps before they switched to Hummers and they dumped it as surplus for next-to-nothing after totally rebuilding it. I paid $300 for it totally rewired, new bearings, new tires, new springs, new lights, new (albiet crappy) paint, rebuilt brake... everything what they called "arsenal reconditioned." The trailers are incredibly well built, have big, 16" wheels and great springs, parking brakes, drains (with stoppers so you can fill it with water and use as a pool at the rally) etc. They are so well balanced that you can lift the tongue and maneuver them around yourself, too. They are built for off-road use, too, so are at home behind a Rover even in arduous conditions. You need to fit pintle hitch to the rear crossmember in place of the ball, but pintles are easy to get and install. They are even the perfect height for a Land Rover rear crossmember, so they don't cant up or down. They are definitely overengineered and an amazing bargain. When I get my D90 I'll be tearing the trailer down and repainting it to match the D90 (It's Marine camo now) and will look sharp painted up witha black chassis, matching wheels and body-colored box. Anyway you can probably find one of these trailers by contacting the Military Vehicle Preservation Assn, or any number of surplus shops (or looking in Hemmings). There are tons on the market right now as the military has just dumped a lot off them off as surplus. There is a whole yard of them for sale at a surplus shop in Lancaster, OH, btw. Anyway, thought folks would be interested. They are a great addition to an 88 and vastly increase the utility for anyone doing real work with their Rovers! (And I won't have to fill the back of a new 90 with manure, either!) Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 02 12:09:20 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 12:09:20 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) Help! I just got my new Daytimer refill pages, and ordered the "map set". There's a map of the UK but it has a "quadrillion" cities on it, and I can't seem to locate Solihill. (Nor can I spell it, no doubt!) Could someone help me locate it? If you could give me the approximate distance and direction from a major city like London, Liverpool, Birmingham, or Newcastle I'd appreciate it. Also, please help me with my spelling. I just want to "see" where my favorite vehicles are made. Thanks, and if you could respond directly, that too would be appreciated. I'm in the digest mode, and am fairly anxious. (Okay... so I have NO patience!) Thanks again, Dave Brown - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA. #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Keerock2@aol.com Thu Feb 2 14:28:39 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 14:28:39 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 Questions Pierce Reid writes: >But I have some questions on the D90... >1. Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels? none No, I haven't seen a D90 with steel wheels during my extensive digging around looking at Defenders in Southern California in the last few months. However, I did see a used D110 for sale at (believe it or not) the local Porche dealership recently, and it had the steel wheels. They strike me as much more functional than attractive. As I remember, they had the same number of spokes and same general design as the alloys, except that they're much "flatter" than the alloys (not as convex or rounded). BTW, are there really problems with the alloys?? >3. I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is >available (as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90. Pardon my ignorance, but by "pickup cab" do you mean a hard top? LR was supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru the roll cage. You have to have the full safari cage, though. I haven't seen one in person yet, but I did see a picture of one at the dealership and they look just like the soft top, with alpine windows, etc., and are even that same grey color. Reports in the LR section here on America Online complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify that. Also, the top is $2,500. Ouch! Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want). Then they said to buy the rest of the goodies (brush guards, rear seat, side steps, etc.) from Rover North for roughly 50% of what the dealers charge. I'm still trying to find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this. Something to keep in mind. >4. How about insurance? I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif. Keep in mind we have some of the highest rates in the country. For me (25 yrs old, clean record), the best quote was $1,900 per year. That was after arguing with the woman for ten minutes that I was *not* mistaken and that there actually *was* a 1994 vehicle made without ABS and/or airbags. Your results may vary. And WHAT comments about how these things roll were you refering to?? >Thanks, I am sure I'll think up some new questions as I get closer to a >purchase. I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they >are getting along with their vehicles .... I'm in the same situation and therefore should introduce myself. My name is Dean Silliman and I've been on this list for only a few days. I'm here because I'm very seriously considering buying a D90 in the near future. I considered a slightly used LWB, but decided a D90 would be much more fun (if much less practical). Like Mr. Reid, I have many questions. Mostly I'm concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the sad reality if I purchase one. Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they as hearty?) Are they suitable for daily use? These are things hard to gauge by a test drive. I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in power and ability with the D90. By the way, are there any LR clubs here in So Calif? The off-roading here in my mountain community two hours east of L.A. rivals much of that found in Northern Cal (sans Redwoods, of course). Any advice from readers would be greatly appreciated. Everyone should also feel welcome to send direct email to me. And I pledge to make future submissions much shorter. -Dean PS - Did anyone else catch "Car & Driver's" Ten Best/Worst list for 1994? Unfortunately, the D90 filled two of the ten catagories for worst performances of the year: Top speed...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 mph Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA They just don't understand. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 02 14:42:55 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:42:55 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: connectivity.... Real time subscribers may have noticed that the list was unreachable between approximately 12:45 and 18:15 GMT today. This was due to a BT line problem between the London Point-of-Presence of our network provider and Major Domo's location. - Bill From Russell Burns Thu Feb 2 12:02:55 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 12:02:55 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D90 Questions > supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru > the roll cage. You have to have the full safari cage, though. I haven't [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify > that. Also, the top is $2,500. Ouch! I have one of those kiddy pool tops, and have not had anny issues with it. I have been wondering if you can use the top for a bass boat in the summer.. I am sure it would make a great sled. (the top panel unbolts from the sides. > Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that > I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want). Then they said to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this. Something to keep > in mind. RN 1-802-879-0032 I got my top from them. The price was equel to the dealer, but there nice to deal with, and have a better location. > >4. How about insurance? > I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif. Keep in mind we have [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the > sad reality if I purchase one. I use mine to comute 100 mile a day. With the hard top, and lots of foam, and dynomat it is comfortable. I also raised the seat up 1.5 inches. > Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they > as hearty?) Are they suitable for daily use? These are things hard to gauge Until we get 20 or so years under our belt, we will always be the weaker sex. but we still can beat on the disco, and R-rover owners together.... > by a test drive. I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep > since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA > They just don't understand. Mine does 90... Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 2 15:05:01 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:05:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains On 2 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of > carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my > problems! The Canadian military dumped these in the summer of last year. Some people got a very good deal through Crown Assets Disposal (All federal good have to go through there) Rgds, PS. At least four with OVLR Ottawa members that I know of. From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 02 12:19:55 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 12:19:55 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: D90 Questions ------- Forwarded Message >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:19 -0800 >From: Roger Sinasohn >Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts LRNA had/has a great series of print ads on the back cover of British Car (a great mag, btw). Lots of british humour, and showing the capabilities. One of my favorites: __..--'\ __..--'' | ____....----'''' / | __...---___...---''' | _| _.-'__..--'' ____....---/ | __..--'' | _.-'_.-' ___...---''' _.' |__..--'' () | .___.-' __..--'' ___...---'/ | RR __/ | | _.-' __..--'' ___...'' | () __..-' | | | _.-' _.-' / \__..--' _.==| | / | .-' ..'' | | _() __..---'' | |==' / |__...--' We british have always driven on the wrong side of the road. / ' Anyway, it's *supposed* to be a curving mountain road, (on the right, there) and a Range Rover (on the left) paralleling it on the other (wrong) side of the low barrier. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Simon Hobson Thu Feb 2 18:02:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:02:11 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Re: Questions for the Defender 90 Community >Questions for the Defender 90 Community: >2. Has anyone tried to fit a hoodmount spare on a D-90? It's a common option and there are strengthening ribs in the panel where the mounting goes. On the downside, it's a right pain of a place to put it. It makes the bonnet^H^H^H^H^H^Hhood very heavy to lift and obstructs vision somewhat. I havn't actually tried it, but I imagine that it takes some strength to lift the spare on and off the bracket - especially if you're in your best suit and the wheels are dirty when you get a flat. >3. I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is >available >(as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90. Pick-ups are a standard option over here in the UK, so the parts should be readily available. Whether they are readily available over there I can't say. >4. How about insurance? Do people find the rates particularly high? Well I found the 90 (2.5 Diesel, non turbo) cheaper to insure than the car (Renault 11, 1721cc Petrol), and I think the tdi is about the same. I can't say what the V8 petrol would be as there aren't many of them over here and I've never considered owning one - did someone mention petrol prices :-( >I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they are getting >along with their vehicles Well I've had mine for 10 months now and I really like it. I need better off-road tyres, and I'm still working out how to get the hydraulic drum winch in the front and the capstan converted to removeable hydraulic status - but when I get that lot sorted I will be having some real off-road fun. Having briefly driven a friends SIII I can honestly say that I'm glad I got the 90 - if only for the power steering ! TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 14:05:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise unhappy. I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud all over the underside of "Gooey". Arrghhhh. But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator. For 22.5 years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess. Ya know, it had never occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable. Amazing. I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-). And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM (auto teller machine)... Gerry 72 88 From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 14:05:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise unhappy. I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud all over the underside of "Gooey". Arrghhhh. But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator. For 22.5 years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess. Ya know, it had never occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable. Amazing. I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-). And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM (auto teller machine)... Gerry 72 88 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 2 08:59:30 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:30 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: New Subscriber When I bought my 109", I had to get a classic car loan and full coverage. Part of all this was to get two certified appraisals. I found two guys in the phone book who were affordable and seemed to know what a Land Rover is. Then, I compiled a whole passel of recent classified ads from the Aluminum Workhorse, RN, and ABP newsletters showing how much similar vehicles were selling for. I also explained how much I thought the vehicle was worth, and pointed out significant features and explained how they added to the value of the vehicle. One of the appraisers took pictures of the vehicle (from opposite corners, to show rear & one side, and the front and the other side.) All this added up to two appraisals from, like, professional appraisers that *no one* could argue with. (They were $12,000 and (I think) $10,500.) I showed that to the bank and got the loan; showed it to the insurance agent, and got $12K of insurance. (Of course, they wanted copies of the pictures.) I can get you the the names/addresses/phone numbers of the guys I used, and I could even dig out copies of the appraisals. I also have, hanging on my fridge, an ad from the SF Chronicle listing a 109" for sale for $22K. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Sekerere@aol.com Thu Feb 2 19:29:09 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:29:09 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: 1966 Land Rover Tyres Well a couple of questions: My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me whether they are too big for this vehicle (88" SWB)? Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? Thanks for all your help Chris W 1966 88" Land Rover "There are cars, there are trucks, there are 4wds, and then there are Land Rovers" From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 17:12:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:12:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: BRM Rover Turbine >From what can recall it was in 1961 thru 1964 that Rover fiddle with their sports racer. This was the same time period that Chrysler produced a bunch of huge Plymouth/Dodge sedans powered by a Turbine and as a test gave or leased the things to assorted mere mortals. Anyway the thing about the Rover Racer was that the chassis and body-work were done by BRM I believe and the internals were Rover. All the reports, as I recall, said the power was terrific and the throttle response abysmal. I know it ran at Le Mans in 1962/1963. I think it was driven by Richie Ginther, a BRM team driver at that time. A Sports Car mag at the time called Sports Car Graphic...later evolved into something else....had a cartoon I loved. The scene is Le Mans, the start....back when, at the flag, the drivers ran across the track, jumped into their cars and blasted off from diagonal parking positions. The first panel showed the drivers sprinting for their rides, second panel showed them taching and then dumping the clutch as they reached about 6K revs and last panel shows all the cars, except the Rover disappearing in the distance. The Rover driver was still sitting there calling out the tach readings....45,000....48,000......52,000. I think it reached power at about 60K. I thought it was cute :-). BTW the thing had a bizarre, for the time appearance. The exhaust stack was a rather squarish affair canted toward the rear at about a 40 degree angle and the remainder of the body was not overly handsome. Gerry 72 88 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 02 Feb 95 20:56:54 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: London area RR Goodie Shops >I'm about to leave for Merrie Englande, home of my forefathers, and >wondered if any of you netters could recommend any interesting >places in the London area (accessible by public transport) Hope this doesn't come too late... When in London, the one shop you'll want to visit is 'Autoparts Ltd.', the arguably biggest LR/RR parts centre in London City. They accept credit cards and ship worldwide. They're located at: Unit 21, Zennor Road Trade Establishment, Balham Road, London SW12 0PS, tel. 0181 675 4022. It's not exactly an area you would come through as a tourist. Imagine London, now put your finger on Chelsea - sound familiar? Ok, now move your finger down and south, cross the Thames, go down past and through Battersea and Clapham, and you'll eventually come to Balham. Public transport, either by Underground: Northern Line southbound via Cannon Street, London Bridge etc., get off at Balham. From there it's 10-15 min. walk, go up Balham High Road to the north, take Devonshire Road to the right, when you hit Cavendish Road ask for Zennor Road (it's a bit hidden). Alternatively by railroad via Clapham Junction Southbound. London Bus: Tooting Bec southbound (don't know the number), get off near Balham Station. Good luck! and better brush up your Cockney in case you have to ask for the way... and, er... see that you get back before dark... Have fun, Stefan From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 17:58:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:58:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Miscellany In talk of differential lubricant...In my first L-R I found that the thinker/colder the oil the less it leaked, most of the time anyway. And the hubs got what they needed and didn't pee on the brake drums when the oil was cold and thick. Somebody heard me mention this and suggested I replace the 90W with 140W. I'd never heard of 140W and was skeptical...but on my next trip to the parts store...there it was. So I bought a bunch...and shortly thereafter snapped a half-shaft...sooo... Well even in the warm sunshine of late May in California, the stuff is about the same consistency as peanut butter (or for you in the UK that's about like Guinness Stout ;^) ....no, please don't hit me) and practically had to be applied with a butter knife. Well all summer long every thing ran extremely well and really quietly so I put the stuff in the front end, the transfer, main, ...swivel pin housings, steering box....great stuff I thought. It was mid to late November, at about 10,000 feet in the Sierra when I first began to question the wisdom of this cleverness. After several nights of camping in a couple glorious spots I hiked back to Phred early in the morning. He had about half a foot of snow in the spare on the hood and the remainder of the bodywork was covered with solid ice that looked like snow. Anyway...when I got in and turned the key I thought the battery had died. It wouldn't crank, just sorta groaned. Hmmm I thought...well I'm on a mountain...this shouldn't be a problem...except this was a very remote and untraveled area at that time of year and what if I can't get it to go.....!?!!!. I noticed too, that the steering wheel seemed not to want to move. Then I tried moving the stick into gear. The peanut butter/Guinness had turned to gelatin epoxy!!! It took hours of effort just to get it pointed down hill and in position to go. On about a 10% grade I finally got it rolling fast enough to get it to 4th and to get it to catch before it slowed again. By then the air temps were probably over 50f. Well it seemed like a good idea at the time...and as long as you don't have temps below 50f I'd say the stuff is a moderately good thing to use. And in the LRO celebrity column....about 20 years ago a kid (early 20s) lived a few blocks from me in Sonoma California and had an 88', either a late IIa or III. The kid was Jon Provost, who played on the Lassie television series in the early to late 60's I think. Never really watched that. I understand he now lives in Santa Rosa Calif, sell real estate and I'm told, still owns a series LR. Also interesting ... My mechanic's son just emigrated to Calif...until mid January work for a L-R dealership in Ireland. He was saying very nice things about the RR 4.0S...and that they cost ever more over there!!?! But, he sez, almost none of them have V8s....that's special order only. They nearly all are equipped with a BMW 6 cyl turbo diesel and he loves that engine. Pity we'll never get it. Gerry 72 88 From William Caloccia Thu Feb 02 21:08:44 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 21:08:44 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Any RTV's this weekend ? // Two '66 109" for sale in shropshire Any RTV's this weekend in the S/W or midlands ? ---- I called up the man who put this add in Feb LRO*and basically, they've both been in storage for at least a year. He mentioned that he had been in California for a few years, bu never exported them. * pg 223, col2, ad 3 (both the top and bottem ones on pg 223, column 2 are sold already.) Both are 5 dr station watongs. The one offered for 495 GBP is considered the roadable one, requiring the re-fitting of the rear window, replacment rear lenses and a few other odds - he was running it form an external gas tank, it goes, it stops, but it won't be passing MOT to drive it home from there... >From the photograph both rear windows are out as well as the passenger window, with five door and safari top (alpine windows & sheild) it is repoted to have had the body taken off and the chassi repaired as necessary. The other one is also a 66, requires welding on the center of the rear cross member, left hand rear out rigger, and is in a non-running state at the present time, and he was asking 395GBP He said some other yank from the london area was due to look at them saturday morning... I don't think I'll be going up there to check 'em out unless I decide to got to Manchester this w/e. (not likely) From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Feb 2 17:55:50 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 17:55:50 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics Greg asks: > Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from > Jacobs Electronics? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some > thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them. FWIW, and IMHO, the limiting factor on point life, in my land rover at least, is not the contacts themselves (ie condition thereof) but degree of wear on the arm that rides on the cam. I've bought no fewer than three sets of points from RN in the past three years, all of which were "genuine" plastic crappy points. None were bakalite (the stuff that lasts for years)-it is much harder material. Despite my continued attempts to keep the cam lubed (it is lubed, but...) the points I've had don't last more than a year. All of the brand new ones can achieve the required gap, but only at the very end of the adjustment. Once the arm wears, they are trash. OK, so maybe I have a slightly worn distributor...but the shaft doesn't have that much play in it, and I'm convinced that a brand new set will be more or less the same in any (proper) distributor (I have the old style-round cap type). I'd go with the crane/allison ignition, but I've been told that it does require that you remove the brass post that your points otherwise ride on. If I had another plate, I'd probably go for it (and keep the plate, points, and condensor in the toolbox just in case), but as is I don't want to be dependant upon the dreaded black box. cheers, rd/nige From DCagen@aol.com Thu Feb 2 22:53:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:53:11 -0500 From: DCagen@aol.com Subject: land vs. range I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and Range Rover two separate companies? And if so, when did they merge? Or just two nameplates of the same company? Where can I get more historical info? Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of these noble vehicals. Thank you. DCagen@aol.com From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 3 00:41:34 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 00:41:34 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: land vs. range DCagen writes: < I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the < last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and [ truncated by lro-digester From "Ryan K. Haaland" Fri Feb 3 08:42:56 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 08:42:56 +0000 (WET) From: "Ryan K. Haaland" Subject: SWB Series IIA for sale Notice to UK readers. I, regretfully, must part with my B Reg, 1963 Series IIA SWB. It has a hard top and is in fair condition. I bought it as a project vehicle and, as a DPhil student in my last year here at Oxford, just don't have the time to give it the attention it requires. I'm looking for something a little bit newer to ship back to the states the end of this year. I'd like to get 450 pounds for it. I paid that for it a little over a year ago and have put some hours and new bits into it. If you are interested, e-mail me at haaland@atm.ox.ac.uk. Or, since I'll be working at home this weekend, call me at 0869 244 106. I live in Bicester, Oxfordshire, just off the M40. Thanks! Ryan Haaland From Richard Jones Fri Feb 3 10:04:48 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:04:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? DEBROWN@srp.gov writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) none Solihull ... about 5 minutes from here (sorry that doesn't help you much does it) ... South Birmingham (Birmingham sort of runs into Solihull) ... If you have major roads on your map then the factory is to the West of the A45 (opposite side of the road to Birmingam International Airport), just North of the M42. Hope this helps Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Richard Jones Fri Feb 3 10:24:41 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:24:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: land vs. range DCagen@aol.com writes: > I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the > last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of > these noble vehicals. Range Rover is officially the Land Rover Range Rover, always been part of the same company, be it Rover, British Leyland, Land Rover, Rover Group. There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. > Thank you. > DCagen@aol.com -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 3 09:58:20 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:58:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: land vs. range On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, Richard Jones wrote: > Range Rover is officially the Land Rover Range Rover, always been part > of the same company, be it Rover, British Leyland, Land Rover, Rover > Group. There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which > probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. British Motor Corp -> \ >--> BLMC -> BL -> Jaguar -> Austin -> Rover British Leyland -> / Rover Rover Group / Triumph Rover - Rover Group -> Land Rover (Purchased by BMW in '94) Rootes/Humber/Sunbeam -> Chrysler Austin & Morris => British Motor Corp. et cetera et cetera.... From bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com (Bruce B. Epps) Fri Feb 03 09:17:31 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 09:17:31 -0600 From: bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com (Bruce B. Epps) Subject: Land Rover info address Whoever, I am trying to subsribe to a Land Rover info exchange address, but am not having any success using the following address given to me: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com Anyone out there that can help me? much thanks, bruce epps bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com From ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Fri Feb 03 10:02:25 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:02:25 -0500 (EST) From: ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Subject: count me in! Hello there, As a new subscriber I thought I'd offer a quick bio...I've read the FAQ and am evaluated the possibility of entering the "owner status" My background with regard to 4 wheel drives is limited to various experiences with (brace yourself) Toyota land cruisers.....Still there? ........Hello? Well, anyway....right know I'm assembling reference material for doing some "homework" so far it looks as though my interests are primarily in a 109..four door possibly....I like to carry alot of "stuff" with me when I travel and I also like to bring lots of friends....I may also investigate the possibility of long slow project car of the 88 variety......(my father in law would flip at a retirement gift of this nature as I think he used to have an 88 many many years ago......) Having read (but not memorized) the FAQ I was wondering why the 6 cylinder engine would reduce the value of a 109?......Are parts less available? Are head corrosion/warpage/burnt valves that problematic/prevalent? I'd welcome input regarding offerings....or any other info. that would help me get started.......I get anxious everytime I see one of those darned land rovers! Rob M Concord, MA USA rob@harv-ehs.mhs.harvard.edu PS I enjoy the Land rover "lore" as well (the moose story) I recall speaking with a woman about five years ago recalling her dad's former land rover....She told me of filleting fish on the fender (wing??? I have alot to learn) when she was a kid. Anyway back to work! From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 03 10:23:12 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:23:12 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant Talked to Robert Davis this AM - he's been driving his Mercruiser 109 for about 100 miles now. For those who came in late, Robert has taken a Mercruiser marine engine, basically a 4 cyl. 3.0 liter, long-stroke version of the Chevy "Iron Duke" 151 and fitted it to his 109. Pumping out 140 hp, Robert states that "no one follows him on the Interstate anymore," and at 70 mph, there is still plenty of room on the throttle. Fitment is straightforward, as the engine is *smaller* than the Rover. Exhaust and radiator plumbing were unmodified. The only drawback is that the starter is on the opposite side of the engine and nearly fouls the front prop shaft. Robert plans on replacing it with a solid 1" shaft rather than the tubular Rover unit to gain clearance. Because of the increased torque, he would also reccommend "taller" gearing. I believe he has the 4.7 rearend right now. Robert says its almost scarry how much power the Rover has now. Look for a step-by-step "how to" story in the next issue of "The Gearbox." *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Mike Rooth Fri Feb 3 15:53:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 15:53:33 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant Sandy, No-one follows *me* on the road with my 2.25 diesel,either. They're all in front! Cheers Mike Rooth From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 3 09:15:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:15:27 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: land vs. range Richard Jones of 5 miles from Solihull writes: < There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which < probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. On the state side of the pond, there is greater cause for confusion. Americans can be forgiven for thinking Range Rover came first. Land Rover disappeared in 1974 and Range Rover was introduced in 1987, and the marketing wise men (guys?) deliberately avoided making any connection. The outfit here was called Range Rover of North America, and stayed that way until the very recent introduction of Defender and Disco to these shores. Then they were in a real dither whether or not to admit they were all related, and who came first. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Fri Feb 3 11:40:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 11:40:27 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello all: Really miss the net hope all is up and running --- because my 109 is There is only one word to describe it, increadable. The Mercruiser 140 runs smooth (espically at idle 600 rpm) and the performance is fantastic. It is (in my opinion & I have first hand knowledge) the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with the 3.9 diffs that are not yet installed. On the down side I'm having a front driveshaft manufactured. The original was too close to the starter and may have made contact while at full rebound. I am excited ! Sandy, Diesel Bob, and Wiley Browning are comming out this weekend to test drive. I even need to install a remote booster (from Mini-Mania) to improve the breaking, which is needed because of the extra power. Extra power - I love that phrase! Well gotta go - could get in trouble for this message (petty people exist in 1995). Miss you all Your friend and fellow enthasist1 R&D From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 03 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 03 Feb 95 10:15:24 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Holy Smoke - a Weber! I vaguely recall that someone - I think a LR newbie? - complained about a 4-cyl. petrol smoking w/power loss, fitted with a Weber carb... yeah, sounds familiar. Seems no-one has relieved him yet, so maybe I'll take charge. "The Weber" as we know it ... blah blah ... is prone to congestion by dust/ filth/debris/flakes from bad air filter/dusty environment/rusted tank/bad petrol etc., and there even have been accounts of brand new Webers out of the factory box that had metal filings and other manufacture related crap *inside* the float chamber. The Weber, even more so than other carbs, takes unkindly to foreign matter living inside him. Typically at wide throttle openings and high revs some of the kaka floating around in the chamber is sucked up into the needle valve, blocking it and causing a float chamber overflow, which in turn causes - see above - loss of power with camouflage smoke screen. I experienced this phenomenon after returning from Jordania and Egypt where I had ingested megagallons of cheap, filthy, contaminated petrol, something around 75 octanes often laced with diesel/water/camel urine or whatever. A week later the engine (also Weber) began acting up, just like yours. Applied my usual remedy (..."when it stops dead I'll have plenty of time to look at it; as long as it moves... bugger"). Well, after 2-3 weeks the problem disappeared as suddenly as it had started. Suppose all the crap was eventually passed through the valve and fired out through the exaust, or the higher grade petrol helped to dissolve it. So, you'll probably have to take the thing apart and clean out the float chamber, jets and needle valve, preferably with compressed air. Get a new set of gaskets before you do (not the entire overhaul kit!). While you're at it fit an inline fuel filter, the petrol pump filter isn't fine enough for Webers, even _if_ it isn't perforated. Good luck... Stefan From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Feb 3 17:55:18 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:55:18 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: land vs. range > Where can I get more historical info? > Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of >these noble vehicals. Same company - try writing to majordomo@team.net with the text get lro-digest faq.complete It's got various bits of history and a good bibliography... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Steve Firth Fri Feb 3 17:26:13 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:26:13 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: land vs. range DCagen@aol.com wrote: >were Land Rover and Range Rover two separate companies? No bless you, Land Rover is the one and only company, with a somewhat tortuous history of state/private ownership. In fact they were always thought of as just plain old "Rover" with Land and Range being different models from the line up. I think we have David Bache (recently deceased) to thank for the looks of our favourite toy. He was responsible for the styling differences between Series I and II Land Rovers and for the distinctive looks of the Range Rover. He was educated as an engineer, not as a stylist. Which may explain why the Land Rover series has evaded the here today, gone tomorrow looks of its competitors. ............................................................................. Firth Consulting Stephen Firth Support Services steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk CIS: 100023,3414 for Biotechnology From "John R. Benham" Fri Feb 3 10:43:15 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:43:15 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Tire Size For Chris (sekerere@aol.com) and other LRO's: The tires you have on your Land Rover 88 now (31x10.50 R15LT's) are way too large. Land Rovers already have a terrible turning radius and these tires exasperate this even further. Also, the tires probably stick out wider than the Land Rovers body. This increases the width needed to drive through tight spaces and can also spray small rocks and debris on the Rovers side panels. But the main reason why one should not use tires this size is that Rover's little 2.25L engine is robbed of more power to turn these tire/wheel combinations. The energy needed to overcome the tires centrifugal force is exponentially greater when one increases the overall tire/wheel radius. Normally, the Land Rover with 15" wheels use the 235R15's. To get a little extra clearance, use the 30x9.50R15LT's. This size would be a good comprimise between the 235's and the 31's. I just put a set of Yokohama Supper Diggers 30x9.50's on my L/R 88 ($69.00/ea at Costco). It has increased it's clearance, they do not stick out, and I think they even weigh less than my old Goodrich T/A 235's. They also look great on an 88, but that's purely subjective. Next weekend we have a three day Rover Run over some fairly rough terrain on the eastern slopes of Washington's Cascade Mountains. I will update everone on how these Yokohamas performed. Safe Rovering, John Benham 1968 88 `Bwana Mobile' From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Fri Feb 3 10:48:58 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 10:48:58 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: RE: Jackob's Electronics For the question on how the omni-pak installs. I bought an Omni-Pak for my International Travelall but my engine was allready in top shape so I could not really tell instinctly how much gain I got from it. Also, I did not have it installed long enough to do any real tests ( I have to sell it to help pay for my new 1970 series IIA 88"). I am installing the Omni-Pak on the Rover now but I can not tell you of the performance increase there either as I am awaiting my gearbox from Scotty. When I get the Rover running maybe I will do some tests and report them back to the list. The Omni-Pak I bought came with zero impeadance cables to replace your stock plug cables. Here is the process: * Replace the plug wires * Get new spark plugs and change the gap from .030 to ~.055 Jackob's suggests Autolites and stresses NOT to use Split-Fires as they are a waiste of $$ and get fouled quickly. * Disconnect the High Tension lead from the coil to the distributor and attach it somewhere in the engine compartment or in your glove box. In the unlikely event the Jackob's fails you will need it. * Jackob's supplies a cable that grounds the original coil. Plug the cable into the coil and attach the other end to to the nearest ground. * Mount the Omni pack in a well vented area, not where it will be exposed to excessive engine heat. * Attach the Jackob's supplied high tension lead from Omni-Pack to the distibutor. There are only three wires left and one is a ground. * Attach the ground wire from the pack to a suitable ground. * Attach the red power wire (with inline fuse) to the positive battery term. * Finally attach the trigger wire to were the trigger wire attaches to the existing coil. * You are ready to rock n roll! Jackob's also told me that I could decrease the points gap to help save them. Apparently the Omni-Pack can, by measuring resistance accross the spark gap, reignite unburnt fuel, adjust for temperature, humidity, and preasure. They claim something like 98% fuel burning, which is pretty amazing if it is true. The internal coil can apparently send multiple sparks on one stroke if the flame goes out. If the Omni-Pak ever fails then all you have to do is unplug the grounding cable from your stock coil and reconnect the coil to the distibutor. That is it. No tools involved. Oh, by the way, I also bought Dr. Jackob's book on optimizing your ignition. In it he states that it is his oppinion and experience that Lucas is the absolute worst ignition there is and that Bocsh (sp?) is close to it. I do not recall what he thinks is the best. In his book he explains how to make a cheap system to measure your peak horse power, peak torque, etc... If people are really interested in some performance numbers for the Rover 2.25 then maybe I will set some tests up with and without the Omni-Pack Jason LaBranch | To find your way, look within! Parallel Products Group | -- AAA Road Atlas Sybase Engineering (510) 922-4690 | From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Feb 03 15:43:23 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 15:43:23 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Chris' wanderings Chris writes: none Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? none No. It should be relatively responsive (for a truck). Try the following: 1. Check tire pressures 2. Tighten spring shackles (loosen lock nut 1st). Check for disintigrating bushings (rubber missing or peeling out). 3. Check tie rod ends for looseness (look at each while someone rocks the steering wheel back & forth). Check steering relay in same fashion (and check it for oil). 4. Jack up each wheel & shake (the wheel, that is). Side to side & to to bottom looseness = bearing pre-load needs adjusting. Top to bottom only loosensess = worn swivel pins. 5. Adjust steering box (is there oil in it?). Loosen lock nut. Clean all the crud off the threads and spray WD-40 or something similar on the threads- work the adjuster until it turns freely. Turn it in gently until you begin to feel resistance. Tighten the locknut. 6. Check your alignment (toe in is the only adjustable part of the alignment). Ooops! Almost forgot! Oversized tires will make it wander too (duh). I run 235 70R-15s on my 88. It tracks pretty well on the highway. I hear other folks like 7.5R-16s even better. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 3 12:52:45 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:52:45 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with > the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with > the 3.9 diffs that are not yet installed. On the down side I'm having a > front driveshaft manufactured. Note the lack of reference to off-road performance. Just wait till he gets stuck in the mud from wheel spin, because there is no low end torque. This is another successful conversion from a Land Rover to an ugly Blazer. R, bg From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 3 12:54:31 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:54:31 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Land-Rover Tyres Chris, Regarding your questions about the tyres on your 1966 88" Land-Rover: >My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out >from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't >really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? I ran Armstrong Norseman Treadlok Radials in size 31x10.50x15 for years and was very happy with them. So happy in fact that recently, when I sold that Land-Rover to Jason LaBranch, I insisted on keeping them to put on another of my Land-Rovers. Mine are mounted on factory-looking custom steel wheels that are 8.0 inches wide. I have also tried putting 31x10.50s on the stock 6.0-inch-wide wheels. This did not work for me. They never would seat properly and so tended to go flat and were also, in effect, rather out-of-round, with the bead down in some places and up in others. The particular tyres that I tried this with, if it matters, were Firestone ATX all-terrains. Jory Bell, also on this list, though, has this size tyre on stock rims and his seem to seat O.K. You might ask him for more details on his experience with this set-up. I forget what brand his are. Although I was always concerned that I might get cited by the Highway Patrol for the tyres sticking out of the wheel wells, I never did (ran those wheels on that Land-Rover for roughly ten years and on another for a couple before that and 10" wheels for about five years before that). When I first put the wide wheels on this Land-Rover, I had trouble with wander and shimmy but this proved to be because of worn-out spring and shock bushings, low oil in the steering relay box, and worn-out tie-rod ends (ball joints). Once I oiled up the relay, adjusted the play in the main steering box, replaced all six ball joints, and replaced all spring and shock bushings, it was fine. I always intended to put on a steering stabilizer but never did. Hope this helps, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Morgan Hannaford Fri Feb 3 14:03:50 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Ahem, maybe Bill didn't read the fabulous storyline by our Rover-journalist Granville Pool. On that slick hill, in the dark, on our way out of the forest- mine was the only Rover to make it up on its own power. I attributed it to my being able to take the hill in a higher gear, hence greater continuous momentum and less wheel spin. Although I had tall tires (235-85-16), they were severely lacking tread (>40K miles on them). Oh, ya. I have a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... I'm not saying the Chevy mill conversions are better; Vance, Jory, and Jim went everywhere I went. Jory even "bounced" past me on one uphill section. But it works well for me and many other Rover owners. This purist attitude is fine, just like bible thumpin' christians are fine. Just don't judge the rest of us by your self righteous standards. In my not-so-humble opinion, the Land Rover was designed to be a flexible, all purpose vehicle. Many of them have been modified throughout the world to accomodate specific terrain or requirements. I talked to a guy from Canberra, Australia and he said all his "mates" have Rovers, but they all use Holden (G.M.) motors in them. It gets them to the fishing site, and are much less expensive to maintain. The simplicity and functionality of Land Rover is what makes them such a legendary vehicle, not some leaky cast iron block. Cheers, Morgan On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with > > the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > is another successful conversion from a Land Rover to an ugly Blazer. > R, bg From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 3 14:32:24 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:32:24 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... ^^^^^ not boat? and... do you have 3.9 diffs? Setting up a Land Rover as a Calfornia freeway cruiser does not make any sense to me. You can buy complete vehicles that are better suited for less that the cost of the adaptor. Why bother? Just my opinion, you are welcome to yours. Shall we ask Terri Ann if she ever put that Plymouth engine in her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better just leave it alone. R, bg From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Feb 3 18:13:01 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:13:01 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: land vs. range > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should > be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, > and he slept: and he took one of his oil leaks, and closed up the tranny > thereof..... hold it, hold it...you got it wrong here....this should read: Then, white man came along.....and he: > made a Range Rover..... always blaming someone for our troubles, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Feb 3 18:40:52 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:40:52 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant > Exhaust and radiator plumbing were unmodified. The only drawback is that > the starter is on the opposite side of the engine and nearly fouls the > front prop shaft. Robert plans on replacing it with a solid 1" shaft > rather than the tubular Rover unit to gain clearance. Because of the Wahoa, there.....*solid* 1" shaft??? Dis gonna work?? He gonna bust motor mounts??? The shaft has got to be able to move fore and aft as the front axle moves up and down, no??? Nigel had a frozen front prop shaft awhile back. Every bump I hit my tranny got jolted.... me don't thinks he can get away with a shaft that can't move..., but I'm sure Robert will figure it out, rd/nige From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 3 17:16:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 17:16:33 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In message <9502032232.AA13891@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell writes: > > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... > ^^^^^ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better > just leave it alone. > R, bg Nope, my TR3 stays stock..except for the DCOE Webbers, exhaust header, electric fan, external oil cooler, spin on filter adaptor...... However, having put over 250K miles on my Land Rover since '78, having put a second petrol tank under the drivers seat, having put a door in the side for access to the propane tank, having spent days on the road with truck drivers saying bad things about me over the CB, having ended up in first gear to pull a horse trailer loaded with two horses up a long grade, having a fully rebuilt Land Rover engine that is totally worn out at 11K miles from a fellow Land Rover owner pouring dirt in my engine, having to face a mew rebuild... That Mercruser motor is looking mighty good to me. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 03 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 03 Feb 95 20:56:35 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Wheels and steering Solihull ( Mecca) is E.S.E of Birmingham, often included in the Birmingham suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east midlands airport if that figures on your map. Chris your handling problems are associated with the wide tyres, if not the cause , certainly a contributor, try a tyre change first, even if it is only borrowing some from a friend to try, check your steering box, track rod ends, steering idler and swivel pin bearings. The wide tyres change the steering geometry in addition to catching every minorchange in the road surface. At best the steering is a bit woolly, learn to focus a hundred yards in front of you, not on the front of the bonnet ( hood ) and relax, do not try to chase minor deviations in course, hold the wheel steady and you'll go straight, start trying to correct minor deviations and you will forever be moving the wheel to and fro. the spoked steel wheels were introduced on the disco, and fitted to the fleet model range rovers. at the start most disco owners changed them for either the alloys or aftermarket wheels, there were plenty of used ones around in the UK for 15 to bucks each, the price has risen a bit since then, in the UK the 5.5' can be bought new for around 40 bucks. the UK 90'sand 110's are fitted with the standard pattern wheels fitted to ser 2a LWB's since 1968. some 90's were supplied with the earlier pattern rr rostyle wheels. the 7" wheels fitted to the 130 are very good, same as the forward control 110, of the late sixties. the alloys are very tough wheels, and if kept clean will stay in good condition for a long time, watch out for careless tyre fitters. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From sohearn@InterServ.Com Fri Feb 3 18:04:59 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:04:59 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: More! > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > our Lord 1970. Here endeth the lesson. > (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) Please go on! - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From RLZiegler@aol.com Fri Feb 3 22:03:11 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 22:03:11 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Marcus differential Marcus, Since you mention ten capscrews you have a Rover type differential. The torque on the crown wheel capscrews should be 35 ft/lbs on 8 capscrews and 45 ft/lbs on the 2 special capscrews ( the two with the slightly larger shoulder diameter). These special capscrews should be placed 180 deg. away from one another and should be torqued before the other 8 are. The 60-70 ft/lb torque you used is for the ENV type diffs. It's no wonder at least one of the capscrews sheered when you installed it at the higher torque. As for the steering, if you are experiencing play in the steering wheel when the vehicle is stopped then the information already given by Russel D. is a start. Look for other things that might be loose: steering relay parts, arms on swivel housings, and even road spring 'U'bolts. If what you are describing as steering play is wandering on the straight and level while moving, then what is probably wrong is tightness in the steering system. This is checked for by getting the front wheels off the ground and turning from lock to lock. If it feels stiff then the first thing I check is the steering relay resistance to rotation which should be not less than 12 lbs. or more than 16 lbs. I could go on but will stop here until further questions are asked. Rich Ziegler 63 SW 88 original owner 74 88 hardtop 3rd owner From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 04 02:14:05 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 1995 02:14:05 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: land vs. range Father Mills, keeper of Tomes, quotes from the Book of Whitworth... > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should ................. > chassis, and Lucas of my Lucas: she shall be called Range Rover because > she was taken out of Land Rover. And this came to pass in the year of > our Lord 1970. Here endeth the lesson. none Praise be the Woodruff Key! Actually, Rover tried to "upscale" the image of the Land Rover in the 1950's by trying to produce a more civilized Land Rover based vehicle. They used a P4 chassis with a 2WD drive train. The resulting vehicle was called a "Road Rover" but it never went into production. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:22:26 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:22:26 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Head Gaskets David- You mentioned these head gaskets that have problems. When I talked to Marty at British Pacific, he said the problem was only in the Gasket Sets, not the seperate LR head gasket. I hope he is right. My '73 has been completely rebuilt with a new 'high' performance head from Turner engineering. It has not been fired up yet, but I would sure hate to overheat it before I ever get to drive it! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:27:16 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:27:16 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Trailers RE: Trailers I agree that these are great/rugged trailers for the money. Have a friend who bought one (actualy one plus 2 parts) at an auction for $150. Went four wheeling. In our narrow canyons, this can be a problem. We got stuck at a dead end with this trailer on the back! Had to dis-connect and move the loaded trailer back by hand. Just be careful where you go off-road with this extra length/mobility liability! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:31:28 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:31:28 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Tires RE: Large tires I have seen a couple 'butchered' LR rims where they cut the centers out of a 16" LR rim and welded it to the rim portion of a Dick Cepeck (sp?) rim. These vehicles were running the 12.5 X 15's. Wandered all over the place, but I guess they do ok in the sand. Wouldn't recommend it! Also, check the toe value on the truck. Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:34:58 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:34:58 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Genesis RE: Genesis Tom- Enjoyed your Genesis. Did LR also eat the forbidden fruit of Leyland and therefore forced from the Garden of England - forced to toil from the land in Germany? Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Rdigecrest, CA From Roger Sinasohn Sat Feb 4 00:09:26 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 00:09:26 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics I've heard of Jacob's, and what I've read (not much) seems to be positive. The product that I'm most interested in of theirs is a doohickey that connects to the ignition with a spring-loaded toggle switch or pushbutton. If you don't hit the button within 5 minutes (or something) after starting the engine, it stops and won't start again. Sounds like a really neat anti-theft device. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 4 02:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 02:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Genesis redux Dixon is threatening to put Genesis in the FAQ, and he suggested that the proper context be established: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the jeep. And God said, Let there be Land Rover; and there was Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, that it was good; and God divided the Land Rover from the Toyota and the other abominations of darkness. < And God said, It is not good that the Land Rover should < be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] < (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and < Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) More you say? Well, Range Rover ate from the tree of BAE and fed some to Land Rover too, and God were none too pleased. So he drove Land Rover out of the garden of England, and he placed at the east of England beemers which turned every which way. As for the first murder, well, it can't be written until it happens. So, we skip to the flood... which brings us right up to the present day. But I'm sure you are all exceedingly rapturous about the revelation that God drove a Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 4 02:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 02:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Genesis redux Dixon is threatening to put Genesis in the FAQ, and he suggested that the proper context be established: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the jeep. And God said, Let there be Land Rover; and there was Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, that it was good; and God divided the Land Rover from the Toyota and the other abominations of darkness. < And God said, It is not good that the Land Rover should < be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] < (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and < Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) More you say? Well, Range Rover ate from the tree of BAE and fed some to Land Rover too, and God were none too pleased. So he drove Land Rover out of the garden of England, and he placed at the east of England beemers which turned every which way. As for the first murder, well, it can't be written until it happens. So, we skip to the flood... which brings us right up to the present day. But I'm sure you are all exceedingly rapturous about the revelation that God drove a Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 4 09:53:23 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 09:53:23 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Re: D90 Questions >Questions for the Defender 90 Community: >1. Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels? >Are they the same as the UK Defender steel wheels? The standard steel wheels on UK models are 5.50Fx16x33 and are not suitable for tubeless use (they don't have the bead retention ridge that tubeless tyres need for safety). Translated the figures mean 5 1/2" wide, 16" dia, and 33mm offset (from mounting face to centre of tyre) - does anyone know what the F means ? TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 4 09:53:46 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 09:53:46 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Injection Pump setting I run a 2.5Diesel 90 and have been given a Turbo kit for it. I figure it should be possible to increase the fueling without going to a specialist - can anyone tell me what the accessible controls on the injection pump do (apart from the idle and max speed settings which I already know) ? I'm not looking for ultra sophisticated matching between pump and turbo - I assume that would require some 'expensive' alterations to the pumps internals - just a bit more fuel to go with the increased airflow. TIA, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From FHYap@aol.com Sat Feb 4 14:50:29 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 14:50:29 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Trailer Bargains Does anyone know if the Trailer Bargains mentioned by Pierce Reid on 2/2/95 are available in the vicinity of the SF Bay Area? From Keerock2@aol.com Sat Feb 4 19:44:41 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 19:44:41 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Defender Legitimate? Thanks to many of you for the messages warning me of the can 'o worms I reopened the other day when I asked whether a Defender is considered legitimate by diehard LR fans. Nothing like a little controversy in my first submission. ;-) Then again, sounds like that debate's already been played out here on the net. -Dean Silliman -Lake Arrowhead, Calif., USA From Lloyd Allison Sun Feb 5 04:10:42 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 04:10:42 GMT From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Film There is a "modern" version of Don Quixote (maybe by Graham Greene) based around a dotty priest and his car. A film was made of it with Alec Guiness and Leo MacKern ? At some stage the Spanish police roll up in a L-R - a Santana of course. Can anyone fill in any details such as the name of the film? Lloyd From Steven M Denis Sat Feb 4 23:45:53 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 23:45:53 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... > ^^^^^ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better > just leave it alone. > R, bg> Sorry, I just have to jump in here.......I just spent 7 hrs. hauling a VW van through (make that *over*) the hills of Pennsilviania (sp?) and I was a wishin' and a beggin' for about 4 more liters..... That poor 109 just was *FLOOGGED* the whole trip.....would I put a more powerful engine in there? *OH* Yeah!........Many of us cannot afford the Land Rover to have it only as a toy...It has to "earn" it's keep...If I had the Dodge Power Wagon with the Cummings TD job, *It* would have gone to Harrisburg and back...(400 foot-pounds? What hills?) but I don't and I want the landy...so a repower is a logical idea....A Isuzu Trooper would have been a puddle of slag about 20 mins. into the trip...I live in the worst climate for automotive corrosion (per GM) so the aluminum body is a "Must"...Don't like to see them all cut up and panted yellow and pink, but a tidy engine swap is not the worst thing in the world....my 107 SW will have the original engine...and it will get towed to rover events behind a 110 with a V-8...*when* I can afford one...until then, it may get pulled behind a 109 w/ a V-8.... So I say keep 'em going anyway you can...and everyone should enjoy *their* ride and ignore the rest!.... steve From Steven M Denis Sun Feb 5 00:05:43 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 00:05:43 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Injection Pump setting All 2.5L Diesel owers....*DO NOT* listen to this! Ah ehm....Well....you have a Bosch "VE" series Pump or its licence equal...find the area of the pump where the fuel lines come out and go to the injectors...got it? this is a iron block thing....just forward of this is a little thingy with a wire on it..this is the shut-off solenoid...just up and toward the wing is a funny screw that has a slot in the end and a very small hex....there is a 13mm lock nut on it and a crimped metal band to limit how far the screw will go in...(this screw is in the same plane as the crank, ok?) this is the fuel delivery adjustment.....NEVER EVER EVER touch this.......*however* *IF* that band should rattle off... and the lock nut shake it self loose..and the bird of paridise should land on that screw and turn it *ever* so slightly in...this would cause excess fuel to be deliverd into the engine and it would be your job to fit a turbo to to supply the From Kelly Minnick Sat Feb 4 23:44:13 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 95 23:44:13 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Fuel Filler RE: Fuel filler Sorry - just one more thing. The fuel filler assembly I was going to get from my buds 'part' vehicle was all rusted and partially broken. Does anyone know of another parts vehilce that wouldn't mind giving up it's right-hand filler assembly in trade for some $$$ (needs to be somewhat reasonable) It may be cheaper to track down here in the States if I can, since the 4 or 5 phone calls to UK could cost as much as the part over there! They don't seem to want to call ME back (wonder why?). Let me know Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Russell U Wilson Sun Feb 5 08:49:42 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 08:49:42 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Tires....again Sorry to flog a dead, or nearly dead horse. The question remains though, what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing problems? No, I'm not a closet lift-kit/big engine/big Ford truckwith monster mudders/lots'o chrome and a union jack flapping in the breaze... person. I'm not looking to put big wide tires on my 88 just tall ones. I have 16" rims and was looking at 235/85/16 size tires. Just how tall can you go without running into problems? I understand how tires are sized ( what all the cute numbers mean) but I just need to know what is the tallest size that I can get away with. Cheers from Pittsburgh Russ From Sekerere@aol.com Sun Feb 5 09:10:48 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 09:10:48 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rovers Hi, am thinking of trying to buy and import a pre-1967 Land Rover to the US next time I am in England. We saw the most gorgeous Carawagon last night at a classic car show at a shopping mall in Phoenix, Arizona. We would like to look for something like that or at least a 109 that we can convert. Does anyone know what something like that would cost, and what it would take, and cost, to import it to the US?? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Chris W (There are cars, trucks, and 4wds, and then there are Land Rovers) From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Sun Feb 5 16:14:37 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 16:14:37 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D90: AUTHENTICITY To those who are questioning the diehardability of the Defender 90, let me add my two cents: I have had a half dozen and still own 3 series Land Rovers of various styles. I love them and wouldn't part with any of them. The things which endear them to us are well known - even by non-owners and legions of wannabes. The Defender 90? I will risk it all here and now and state emphatically that I believe that [it] is the penultimate result of all that embodies the Land Rover experience. The Defender 90? This is OUR beloved beast in modern trim. It is NOT a different car. Look at it for God's sake. The debate is pointless. All of the strengths are still there. Aluminum panels, simple functionality, hose-out interior, outstanding off-road performance. The weaknessess (most of them) have been banished. On-road performance. Poor heat, etc. What's different? Stone-reliable V8. 182 HP w/ 3675# curb weight. That means 80MPH in 5th gear! Turning 2600 rpm! It means brakes that will launch you through the windscreen! It means constant 4wd w/easy diff-lock at the flick of a knob at speed. It means a heater that will make you sweat when it's zero farenheit outside. And (gasp) air conditioning if you live somewhere you need it. Air cond. that will basially pop ice cubes - its that strong. A cage that will protect you and the car in a rollover. The same beloved form-follows-function sheetmetal. A chassis which is heavier, has a drainage system, and is better protected than the series frames. Enclosed cv joints. Basic retro-bility of old addons will still fit these 90s as well. This car will cruise at 85 mph all day long in fifth gear. Stop like a sports car. Multi-top system. Is this kind of stuff not something that would appeal to a diehard? I think not! I think that the Defender 90 is a bargain - even at its tariff-swollen price tag. Nice series cars are all beginning to break over 10-grand - full restos into the teens. Reread the above performance parameters and then tell me that a brand new Land Rover is not price efficient. Who trades in a series car? Right - nobody. Same w/Defender 90. You suffer through the payment book - and then its yours, forever! And when they go away, and those who suddenly want one can't get one - you who will have yours will appreciate the retained value - just as all of us series owners have for DECADES! Getting the picture? I think that the Defender 90 is the finest Land Rover ever produced. And it will be a sad day when it goes away. Don't take my word for it. Just go drive one. cheers Jim Roverheadus defenderatum berserkius jpappa01@interserv.com From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Feb 5 17:10:43 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 17:10:43 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch All, Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 foot of snow on the ground !!! Put a heater in the garage and lots of coffee !!! Anyway, I'm trying to bleed the clutch, with little or no success. Anyone tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? Mark From EvanD103@aol.com Sun Feb 5 21:14:52 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 21:14:52 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Misc. Questions Hi there! The resurrection of my 1973 Series 3 88" is proceeding more or less on schedule. After nearly 2 months of ownership I've had the frame sandblasted, primed, and repainted. It looks great. The new steering relay and suspension bushings were a lot easier to install than the old were to remove. Based on suggestions from others in this forum the relay was 'packed' in grease before installation. Someone will thank me for that in 20 years... Some questions: I'd like to clean and paint the springs before installing them with their new bushings. Any suggestions on paint? I'd hate for it to flake off the first time they flexed. I've disassembled the engine (only problem was beating out the seized pistons - engine hasn't run in years), and need to start buying replacement parts. Anyone had experience replacing the 'Rube Goldberg' designed chain tensioner with the newer alternative (looks like a conventional Reynolds pad type in the literature)? Do I only need the appropriate chain to go with it? Lastly, my oil pump is well worn and rusty (how can an oil pump rust?). I've come across 3 different part numbers for the assembly: The Land Rover parts book calls for RTC2554, Paddock in England lists ETC7054, and in the US Rovers North and British Pacific list part # ERR1117. Are these all the same part for my 2.25 litre engine? Any help would be appreciated. Sincerely, Erik Erik van Dyck Stone Mountain, Georgia 1973 Ser.3 88 in pieces.... From UncleBrad@aol.com Mon Feb 6 00:43:49 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 00:43:49 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Those surplus110s & 90s I finally got hold of an outfit in VA which is supposedly selling US Military spec. Land Rover 110s & 90s (1992) which are still in the crates. This is an equipment broker, as far as I can tell. I introduced myself as the editor of the Aluminum Workhorse magazine and told him that I was interested in letting our readers know the real story on the vehicles and perhaps even getting one myself (all true). The fellow I spoke to said yes, there are a bunch of them here in the U.S. (450 somewhere in Indiana) and more to come (for a total of 2000). And yes they could be purchased in smallish lots, perhaps as small as 10 vehicles. I quizzed him about the vehicles, since there have been some conflicting reports on the net. If you've been following this subject, you have many of the other details which he (mostly) confirmed. I was, however, very interested in whether they were cleared by the EPA & DOT. And one of the postings mentioned that some of the engines were 170hp, 6.5 liter diesel V-8s. A friend of mine (who is a Land Rover enthusiast also) pointed out to me that that was not one of Land Rover's engines. It was however the description of the big GM engine which was put into Hummers & Suburbans. He also suggested that this makes some sense in light of the fact that these vehicles are U.S. Military spec vehicles which were probably bought for use in "Desert Storm" where they would be in service right next to the U.S. Military Hummers. It would actually be a smart move to have some commonality of parts in all the vehicles out there. Well, it seems that the fellow I spoke to couldn't give me a satisfactory answer to my EPA/DOT concern, although he tried. I spoke to his boss about it and he gave me some B.S. about how all military vehicles are exempt from these requirements. I can hear myself telling my local California DMV clerk THAT! Half an hour later, I got a call from the broker asking me just where I got my information. I told him that it has been one of the subjects on the net for a couple of weeks and that I really couldn't tell where it all started. Interestingly, he bagan to suggest that they might not want to have their firm's name splashed around but that they would gather up the documentation & information that I had requested and send it to me. He neglected to ask for my address though. Did I say something wrong? I must have, because I had a very strong feeling that I was never going to hear from these folks again. Robert Davis wrote of his research into this subject on Jan 18 and tells us that there may be other companies out there who are selling these vehicles too. He names a company called Autobus which was a company name in Europe but not in this country to my knowledge. And Andrew Wright has posted a message indicating that he is trying to pull together a group of 25 interested buyers to purchase some of the vehicles. I imagine he is in touch with a different company. I am still interested this, so would greatly appreciate anything more that anyone might have that could lead me to something solid. See ya! Brad Blevins From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 00:45:18 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 00:45:18 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch Mark's bleedin' clutch..... > Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 > foot > of snow on the ground !!! Put a heater in the garage and lots of coffee Garage? Heat!! Wimp!! :) I bled the clutch in Fern last winter with three feet of snow around the truck!! They *are* a pain in the arse, aren't they? Never tried the one-man bleed kit thingie.. I did borrow a Mitey-Vac and had good results.. (You can probably find one a K-Mart or Walmart - about $20) Also heard of people priming the master cylinder... Never tried it, but it's supposed to help. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Sekerere@aol.com Mon Feb 6 00:57:00 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 00:57:00 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: South Africa If there is anyone reading this who has contacts in South Africa who could help me to locate a 1960-1966 vintage 109" in GOOD condition for use during our family vacation there. This vehicle would be purchased with the idea of exporting it to the US after our vacation. Please could they contact me at: Sekerere@aol.com. We From UncleBrad@aol.com Mon Feb 6 03:01:54 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 03:01:54 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Engine swaps? I'm afraid that I'm one of those who has gone the way of the Chevy. And It is everything that Land Rover should have been in the first place. Isn't that why they put the 6 cylinder engine in the Land Rovers1967? They just chose the wrong engine. Seems to me that the $450 or so that I spent for the adapter kit, added to the cost of an older, rebuilt Chevrolet engine (which is better than the newer ones for several reasons, one being the lack of smog paraphernalia) is still much less than the cost of a Land Rover engine. Then consider the availability of reasonably priced parts even in the middle of mexico. Call me practical but... About the torque damaging the drive train- I have no doubt that I could do damage to the Land Rover gearbox with all that horsepower but I still drive my 109 like it's a Land Rover, not a hot rod. The only difference in my driving is that I can keep it around 55-60 even on the grades. Well, maybe I have stopped using 1st gear so much too... That leads to the problem of gearing- The overdrive is a good, easy way to get high gearing without sacrificing low gearing. Yes, it adds to the cost of the project but you don't have to do it right away. Another way to go, as mentioned earlier in this discussion (not by me) is taller diffs. I have been both routes and prefer this one. The overdrive requires consistent oil level monitoring for some reason and I don't like having to remember things like that all the time. New gearing leads to the question of getting stuck due to lack of low rpm ability- I don't want seem like I'm bragging but I must tell you that my 109 can pull at 500 rpms even with 3:54 diffs. That is good enough for me and what I do. And the power has enabled me to cruise through deep sand where my fellow travellers in stock Land Rovers could not. Not with a running start either. For those of you who have the Chevy already, or have been convinced that this is something that you might be interested in I would like to pass on the address of a company which specializes in performance parts for 4 & 6 cylinder inline engines. Consider them for improving your economy rather than performance. They even have headers for the Land Rover engine. Send $5 for their catalogue: Clifford Performance PO Box 2620 Corona, CA 91720 Phone 909-734-3310 I hope I don't get too much hate mail for this. Brad Blevins From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1904 Date: 06 Feb 95 04:07:14 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Jeeps in the snow... ...just a short quote from The Guardian (UK), reporter Martin Wainwright telling about his experience when trapped on the M62 over a week ago when the Midlands and Pennines where hit by a blizzard during evening rush hour. "Midnight on the M62 saw Leeds and Manchester evening rush hour frozen into the landscape seven hours after we were all due home. ... The police Range Rovers whispered and crumped on the snow past the stranded pretend Jeeps, whose drivers hadn't yet the same mastery of four-wheel drive..." Doesn't that go down like warm chocolate? From Richard Jones Mon Feb 6 09:52:23 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 09:52:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Wheels and steering WILLIAM L. LEACOCK writes: > Solihull ( Mecca) is E.S.E of Birmingham, often included in the Birmingham > suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east > midlands airport if that figures on your map. none [...] > Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. > suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east Looks like you have been away a little too long - Land Rover is close to Birmingham International Airport - East Midlands Airport is near Nottingham :-) -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no Mon Feb 06 12:13:15 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 12:13:15 MET From: Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no Subject: fuel + cost + rebuild Hello! The V8 of my RR'79 is a very thirsty friend to have, so... The *jewel* is a standard RR configuration with twin Stromberg carbs and no injection or turbo. I have started to collect some info on possibilities for rebuilding. Do anybody in the LR-net have advice on what i might expect from a standard -> electronic injection, or petrol -> diesel or ......(suggestions) port? Harald ----------------------------------- Harald Stegavik, Research Scientist SINTEF Pb 124, Blindern N-0314 Oslo Norway tel: +47 2206 7927 fax: +47 2206 7909 Inet: Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no From Tom Stevenson Mon Feb 6 10:33:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:33:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Leaf springs I never had much success with painting leaf springs; they always went rusty. In the end I just daubed on a mixture of diesel and engine oil with the relavent wheel jacked up to relax the spring. This seemed to keep the rust off and the spring supple (if 'supple' can be applied to a LR leaf spring) By the way, who is Rube Goldberg? Is he of the same ilk as Heath-Robinson? Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Tom Stevenson Mon Feb 6 10:18:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:18:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Defender 90 Hear, Hear! However, you forget to mention one of the most important attributes of the 90s and 110s; the coil springs. These alone have saved me a fortune in dental bills for loose fillings since I changed from Series Rovers to a 90. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From SE THOMAS 6 95 Feb GMT 1913 Date: 6 Feb 95 13:37:39 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: Introductions Hi, being new to the list I thought I should send in a brief introduction. I have a 1964 swb 2.25 diesel, and bearing in mind what Sandy Grice and Mike Rooth said, no-one follows me on the motorway because it's dangerous to drive in a pall of thick black smoke. As a consequence the block is out at the moment for a rebore, and then it'll be a case of trying to fit it all back together again. If anyone has any hints for re-timing a CAV mechanical distributor without the flange nearest the marker, I'd appreciate them (yes, I know I could have marked it elsewhere, but someone else removed it while my back was turned). Yours up to my elbows in bits that shouldn't be broken, Stephen Thomas From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 06 Feb 95 08:59:47 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Tires....again Russel enquires... > what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing > ... > I have 16" rims and was looking at 235/85/16 size tires. Just how tall On the 16" rims you can go as far as 9.00, though I would strongly advise to swap for 1-ton rims in that case, or your turn-around radius will be comparable with an old Greyhound bus. With 235/85 tires, the problem is not so much size but *tubes*. On the regular rims of an 88, you *cannot* fit tubeless tires. And you cannot fit tubeless with an extra tube inside either; we've tried, doesn't work - apparently the tube begins 'wandering' and warping inside, and eventually, i.e. like real soon, rips. And I *think* - might be wrong, though - that none of the 235/85 brands come with tubes. What you could do is take the _old_ style steel rims of the pre-1980 Range Rovers, they're suitable for tubeless, and they fit the 88 (looks a bit weird though). Make sure, however, that you get the 7"-wide variety. With 245'ers, again you will have the problem of needing an entire empty parking lot to turn your wagon around. Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 06 Feb 95 08:59:00 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Misc. Questions Erik van Dyck (EvanD103@aol.com) is puzzled: > I've come across 3 different part numbers for the assembly: The Land Rover >parts book calls for RTC2554, Paddock in England lists ETC7054, and in the US >Rovers North and British Pacific list part # ERR1117. Are these all the same >part for my 2.25 litre engine? Any help would be appreciated. Erik, all those numbers designate the same identical part. ERR1117 is the current, valid parts number that has superseded both others. RTC2554 has been superseded way-back - when was your parts book printed? Enjoy, Stefan From Mike Rooth Mon Feb 6 14:15:18 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 14:15:18 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Tires....again Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with* tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood. Cheers Mike Rooth From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Mon Feb 06 15:18:56 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 15:18:56 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Newby and already some "steering" Qs I just recently joined this list after been bitten by some kind of a virus: saw an article on LRs in "practical classics" and came to the conclusion that next to all of those other cars needed a LR or two. Bruce H. told me about this list, thanks Bruce, and I gladly joined. Enjoyed reading for the past two weeks orso. Well, splashed out a week ago and bought two for the price of one. A '63 109" IIa Diesel, fitted with a Peugeot "Indenor" Diesel, and a '60 88" II on gas, half of it in boxes. I used the notes in the FAQ when checking these cars, and they both are in reasonable shape, the LWB can be used regularly, but is untastily modified. I will have to work on it a little to make it pass the yearly official test. The guy I bough them from had collected a pile of new/used spare parts with came with the deal. Also a set of maintenance mauals (though intended for army LRs). I hope to be able to ask some questions to this list regarding the "resurrection" of these Land Rovers. I don't have any experience yet with LRs in particular, but that will come! A problem with the LWB is that the steering was rather vague. On the check I had already noticed two worn tie-rods on the steering(?) arm: the arm that goes from the relay to the (right) wheel. When checking this arm I noted that it is out of spec. The tie-rod are set on minimum length and the center-distance is 31.5" (80 cm). According to the series III specs it should be between 78.3..78.6 cm (30+7/8"). I noted that the steering wheel has an awkward position when driving, but that the relay-lever is pointing forward when the steering wheel is straight ahead. Could it be that I have the wrong steering arm? Can somebody measure up a correct LWB IIa steering before I scrounge through the pile of SWB II parts and find one thats even worse. Also, while busy giving long due maintenance, I tried to oil the steering relay in situ. According to the manuals, you'll have to remove two of the oil seal retainer bolts, use one as a filler and the other for air escape. Is this the proper way? I had a tough time removing two said bolts, the upper relay arm is definetily in the way. In the end, I wasn't able to get any oil in, it just kept pouring out of the opposite bolt hole. Thanks very much, Richard P. Kleihorst. From C Taylor Sutherland III Mon Feb 6 10:22:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:22:24 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: New Disco? Well, I finally saw a Disco that WASN'T at the dealer's. Amazing. Anyway, while driving through Greenville, SC I happened (on purpose) to drive past the local dealer (so I could drool at the Defender 90, and finally see the new hard top, makes it look like the old intented grill 90's) and I saw a Disco up under the over hang. At first, I thought it was a Mitsubishi as they sometimes have other trucks there for sale but when I got up closer, I noticed that it in fact was a Discovery. But it looked shorter than it had in months previous. Is it just my imagination or have they in fact made the Disco shorter? taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Mon Feb 06 10:29:47 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 10:29:47 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Bleedin' cylinders Mark Talbot (mtalbot@interServe.com) wrote about bleeding the clutch cylinder. I've made a nifty pressure bleeder for less than $2. Took a 1 qt. garden sprayer with a broken nozzle (*never* throw *anything* away!) and used some gas line hose to plumb it to a spare plastic reservoir cap. Siliconed a brass hose barb (the $2 bit) into the cap. Now a single person can bleed brakes or clutches. The clutch master cylinder has a rough casting mark from where the two halves of the mold met, and that may have to be judiciously filed down...just beware of the swarf. As long as you're at it, you may want to replace the clutch flex line...something that often gets overlooked. I notice that Rich Ziegler (RLZiegler@aol.com) has joined us. Welcome aboard Rich! For those that do not know him, Rich is the single most knowledgeable person about Land Rovers that I have ever met. Rich was probably the reason Bill Hubert started Atlantic British way back when. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From S|ren Vels Christensen Mon Feb 6 17:09:40 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 17:09:40 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch On Sun, 5 Feb 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > Anyway, I'm trying to bleed the clutch, with little or no success. Anyone > tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? > Mark none I am the proud owner of the most efficient one-man-bleed-kit on this planet. It's made of two parts: one left arm and one right ditto. Just remove the floor (on the drivers side!), work the clutch with one arm and the wrench with the other. For brake bleeding though, i foresee the need of the double-one-man-bleeding- kit ;-) Good luck. sv/aurens velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From Steve Firth Mon Feb 6 14:30:20 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:30:20 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Tires....again Russell U Wilson wrote: >>Sorry to flog a dead, or nearly dead horse. The question remains though, what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing problems? << The largest standard tyre used on the 16" rim are 7.50x16s as fitted to the 109/110. You can get these as radials from General and BFG in a variety of tread patterns. You need a new speedometer head when these tyres are fitted to an 88/90. -- Steve Firth: '81 109" Safari, 2.25 petrol. From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Feb 06 09:31:41 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 09:31:41 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Clutch bleeding Mike Loiodice wrote: > Mark's bleedin' clutch..... > They *are* a pain in the arse, aren't they? Never tried the one-man bleed [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > probably find one a K-Mart or Walmart - about $20) Also heard of people > priming the master cylinder... Never tried it, but it's supposed to help. I've never found bleeding the clutch to be all that annoying. I simply pull the driver's side floorboard. I position a tuna fish can (which I always carry to hold change and such in) to catch the fluid. Then I use my left hand to depress the clutch and my right one to loosen and tighten the bleed screw. Simple and can be done by yourself in the field. I nice design feature IMO. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Jimmy Patrick Mon Feb 6 12:58:55 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 12:58:55 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: jacob's ignition... Greg said: >Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from >Jacobs Electronics? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >(from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and >just uses the points as the trigger. Over here Boyner Bradsen (or somebody, I have the order form) sell one of these thingys for about 19 pounds. It is actually cheaper to order from the states, you don't pay the VAT at 17.5% and shipping is quite cheap. The unit is about the size of a pack of camel trophy cigarettes. You switch about three wires and bingo. If you dont like it, you switch those three wires back. I don't have one of these yet but Trevor Talbot has one and he thinks it is great. Your points will last much longer with this unit attached. It also has a handy led timing light on the unit that you can use for static timing. I will order one of these when I return to the states. There are a lot of people in the Series one club who use these things with good results. Jimmy Patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Mon Feb 6 10:02:19 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:02:19 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains > From lro-owner@uk.stratus.com Sat Feb 4 12:06 PST 1995 > To: lro@team.net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Does anyone know if the Trailer Bargains mentioned by Pierce Reid on 2/2/95 > are available in the vicinity of the SF Bay Area? There's a surplus dealer in Fresno that sells them for $650. There's a guy in Oakland that had some, don't know the price. R, bg From "John R. Benham" Mon Feb 6 10:40:21 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:40:21 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Petro tank bladder Dear LRO's, Does anyone know if there are rubber (hypalone?) liners available for fuel tanks of the older Land Rovers? Older Land Rovers were not designed with safety engineering or standards in mind, especially for a side impact. The fuel tank would probably rupture during a severe right hand side impact. Hopefully, a high density flexible liner might prevent rupturing. Any thoughts or suggestions on this? Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile' From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Mon Feb 6 11:24:02 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 11:24:02 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: rover maintanence Hello all, I can now report that changing the oil on the tiger is easier than on the rover. Although both systems are similar, I needed my wife (from above) to start the bolt that holds the oil filter holder while I down below, held the cannister up in the holder. The Tiger has a more obtuse arrangement, with the oil in pipe (from the adapter on the block) threading into a VERY large bolt/cap that covers the top of the oil filter. However, I can perform the holding and tightening myself; the rover takes two people! ( I have the six cyl. and a heat shield. Perhaps on the fours, one person can manage.) While changing the oil, I was able to locate the source of an oil leak (I think). I believe oil is leaking from the adapter/block interface; I know, I should have taken everything apart while the oil was out and the filter was out but I didn't. I wanted to check my books to see what I was getting into. Turns out that didn't help. I have checked my repair manuals and RN catalog but cant find mention of a gasket that goes on the block between the block and the adapter plate that holds the oil filter holder. (I found the gasket that goes between the oil filter cannister holder and the adapter bun not the other one, between the adapter and the block.) I'm trying my best to be clear. So, is there a gasket there? There must be, right? Part number please? I can see I'm going to have to buy a parts books. Does the parts book have lots of exploded diagrams? Secondly, would any rover owners who have converted to eletronic ignition email me with the system you bought, price and comments? Thanks, John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first) University of Calif Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu Davis, CA or ? From Richard Strysniewicz Sun Feb 05 23:27:34 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 23:27:34 GMT From: Richard Strysniewicz Subject: Re: Holy Smoke - a Weber! >I vaguely recall that someone - I think a LR newbie? - complained about a >4-cyl. petrol smoking w/power loss, fitted with a Weber carb... yeah, sounds Thanks Stefan, that was my post you were thinking about. I have recently fitted an in-line filter because I had noticed an accumulation of crud in the float bowl. Hopefully I will not see this problem again for a while. On a related note, anyone care to comment on the relative merits of Zenith vs. Weber cabs for the 2.25? I have a Turner performance head but otherwise stock engine. I'm not lacking for power right now but would like an increase in fuel economy (wouldn't everyone?) Would a Zenith be any more economical than the Weber? I currently get about 16mpg (imperial gallons) give or take a few here in windy, hilly southern England. Most of the miles are at 55-60mph, no overdrive, 7.50 tyres. Does that sound normal or should I be able to do better? Richard Strysniewicz DoD 1193 AMA 661768 Petersfield, UK 1991 907ie Bellarossa From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Feb 06 12:58:40 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 12:58:40 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: New Range Rover... preview, and more. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: New Range Rover... preview, and more. Last Thursday I attended a big "whoop-te-doo" at the LR dealership in Phoenix to introduce the new Range Rover model. Quite a showing of people, lots of "famous" celebrities including several members of the Phoenix Sun's basketball team (A C Greene and I can't remember the other) and Jim West of the USA 1992 Camel Trophy team. I had a great time talking with Jim, who happens to live "near" me (well, around 30 miles away) and said he'd love to go 4-wheeling with me. He owns a... (Oh, dare I say...) a "Jeep", but he raved about the capabilities of the Land Rover, and "can't wait for the day he can own one." His preference is 1, a D90, 2, a Discovery, 3, a D110. (It appears he weighs heavily on the wheelbase) and had many great stories about the tdi, (turbo-diesel) and the camel trophy, and... oh, but I'm rambling now... Sorry... The new Range Rover is FABULOUS! And a "bargain" at (only) $54,000 US. Talking with the sales-droid, everything is new, re-engineered. New engine, new trans with "H-gate" shifter (allows you to override automatic gear selection in 4WD-low to where you can select any gear and it'll remain there. Yes, you can START in 3rd gear!) New interior, new dash, new body... Looks like it has Discovery mirrors, and similarly to the Discovery, the "groove" running the length of the vehicle near the top third of the door. Analog speedometer, with digital odometer and information center that can display "hundreds"? of informational messages about the vehicle, such as "Tailgate ajar" or "Headlights on" or maybe even (WOW! Who's that in my passenger seat!" (I could be slightly exaggerating here.. .) ;) I also met Charles Hughes, president of Land Rover of North America, and asked him many questions including the "phantom 110's and 90's" we've all heard rumor of, to which he said he had heard the rumors, and if they were true, he's have known about them. (Dashed my hopes... ) While I had his ear, I pulled out my list of suggestions for the Discovery. Most of these he said were design choices and wouldn't be changing. (Also some are due to market demand, people want a "yuppie truck" and are not concerned with FULL instrumentation.) My suggestions were: 1.) No ABS in 4WD-low range. (told that ABS still is the better solution.) 2.) Seat belts lock at an angle (no change) * I now use a paper clamp to hold the belt from retracting if I exit the truck while on an angle. 3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available) 4.) Automatic trans shift points. (no change) 5.) Rear mud flaps break off. (Noted my comment, possible future improvement.) 6.) Binacle mounted controls blocked from view by steering wheel. (Meant to be used by touch, but noted my suggestion to move the indicator lights to the dash.) 7.) Better seat adjustor than the "starwheel" thing. (Told me that the market wants power seats, so that may be coming.) 8.) Door lock buttons not on top of door sill. (Kind of looked at me funny, like I'm silly for accidentally locking doors with my elbow...) 9.) Arm rests on front doors. (Said "yeah, and nodded his head.) 10.) Tail light guards a bad design. (Will look into this.) Mounted to the side of the vehicle by rubber and double stick tape! 11.) Locking differentials available. (Told me that the LR was designed to get you home from "anywhere" and that this would add unnecessary strain to the drive train. - no change) 12.) Full gauges, oil, amp, trans temp. (note "market trend" "yuppie truck" reply.) 13.) No tachometer "redline" indicated. (Told that the engine is governed at 5500 RPM anyway, not needed.) 14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation of power/performance... no change) 15.) Front seat "side covers" are a bad design - get kicked off my your feet. (Noted the problem, will investigate. Admitted that he's heard of people breaking them.) 16.) Need for opaque covers for the sunroofs. (Most likely only a concern in the Arizona climate.) 17.) Need anchor tie down places for rear "cargo" area. * my offroad box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my suggestion, possible future fix.) All in all, I was encouraged, he actually asked if he could have my list, (which BTW had my name, phone # and e-mail address on it.) I asked if he has an internet connection, he said no, but he's heard a lot about it. I told him about lro@team.net. A great evening! If you get a chance to check out the new RR, do it! But, as for offroading, it looks like the only real improvements are the larger tires (tyres) the transmission, and a little more horsepower. Dave Brown - '94 LR Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Feb 6 12:15:55 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 12:15:55 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch All, Okay, thanks for all your help, problem found. Master cylinder has gone !!!! I did buy a "One man bleed kit", connected it up and started pumping the pedal. Got under to check the fluid and got a face full from the leaking master cylinder. I knew I should have replaced it !!! Hindsight 20/20 etc. Now its off with the wing and replace the master cylinder and try again. The rebuild was going so well. Luckily I have not put the floor back in yet, I want everything running correctly before that goes back in. Here's another question to you all. SIII starter motors have a cloth covered lead from the starter housing to a lead that then connects to the starter switch. Is this correct ?? From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 6 14:42:58 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:42:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: rover maintanence On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, John Hess wrote: > So, is there a gasket there? There must be, right? Part number please? I > can see I'm going to have to buy a parts books. Does the parts book have > lots of exploded diagrams? Between block and engine oil filter? Gasket part number is 598354 (#36 on page 1C 11 of IIA parts manual) From Kelly Minnick Mon Feb 6 13:12:49 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 13:12:49 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Re: Head Gaskets RE: Head Gaskets > I also spoke to a Rovers North representative and he said that over > the past few years, Land Rover has changed the flowrate patterns > through the engine by changing the head gasket. The only problem is none OK. Does my 'separate' head gasket have the correct flow patterns or not? It's obvious that humidity AND temp play the part in overheating. But with all the big bucks I put into my motor, I don't want to warp it. I have the copper gasket that came with the 'Bearmark' (sp?) gasket set. In my little wisdom, I decided that I needed the 'much better' composite style. Hence paid the extra buck to BP. Don't really want to pull off all that stuff, but will ONLY if needed. Seems to me that Land Rover needs to come clean and make an official statement since they are pushing so hard for using Genuine LR parts. Where has it got me? Who knows! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Roland Sonnenburg Mon Feb 6 13:48:03 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 13:48:03 -0800 (PST) From: Roland Sonnenburg Subject: US Military Specs? Why did the US use Land Rovers as opposed to Hummvees, what model LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers. They sound like a great thing to me, but I (obviously) don't know much about them. Any thoughts? Roland From Richard Strysniewicz Mon Feb 06 21:25:10 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 21:25:10 GMT From: Richard Strysniewicz Subject: Re: Misc. Questions > Anyone had experience replacing the 'Rube Goldberg' designed chain tensioner >with the newer alternative (looks like a conventional Reynolds pad type in >the literature)? Do I only need the appropriate chain to go with it? Yes and yes. I replaced the timing chain, gears, and tensioner on my 2.25 a month ago and used the newer tensioner. It is simply a pad that rubs on the chain, attached to the end of a piston-type assembly that is forced outwards via oil pressure. Quite a simple design compared to the older type - no spring, ratchet, or sprocket. You will have to replace the chain as the new tensioner is designed to be used with a shorter chain. While you are at it you might as well replace the sprockets. You will need a gear puller to get the crank sprocket off so get one beforehand if you do not already have one. You might also want to replace the rub block as they only cost a few pounds (dollars?) Happy Wrenching, Richard Strysniewicz DoD 1193 AMA 661768 Petersfield, UK 1991 907ie Bellarossa From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 6 15:43:28 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 15:43:28 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re:New Range Rover..and more. In message <199502062000.PAA26426@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > SUBJECT: New Range Rover... preview, and more. >snip > The new Range Rover is FABULOUS! And a "bargain" at (only) $54,000 US. My Land Rover is semi-Fabulous and was a bargain at only $375 US. > Talking with the sales-droid, everything is new, re-engineered. Everything on mine was an evolutionary reengineer from the series I, keeping the best & not making change just for the sake of change. > Yes, you can START in 3rd gear!) My Land Rover is capable of being started in any gear combination including 3 hi & 3 lo. Why would this be a big deal. > New interior, Mine could use one > Analog speedometer, with digital odometer and Mine has an alalogue speedometer & digital odometer too, so what > information center that can display "hundreds"? of informational > messages about the vehicle, such as "Tailgate ajar" or "Headlights on" > or maybe even (WOW! Who's that in my passenger seat!" (I could be > slightly exaggerating here.. .) ;) Mine displays speed, RPM, fuel, water temp, current, voltage, oil pressure & if its time to turn off the choke. You must manually turn your head to get a visual read out of doors or tailgate ajar. Not a dificult task for most people. The headlight on check is done by looking at the switch located in the centre bottom of the instrument panel. > I pulled out my list of suggestions for the Discovery. > Most of these he said were design choices and wouldn't be changing. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > 1.) No ABS in 4WD-low range. (told that ABS still is the better > solution.) My Land Rover does not have ABS in low range > 2.) Seat belts lock at an angle (no change) * I now use a paper clamp > to hold the belt from retracting if I exit the truck while on an angle. My seat belts do not retract when parked at an angle > 3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available) Mine mounts to the front > 4.) Automatic trans shift points. (no change) Mine shift at excactly the point I wish > 5.) Rear mud flaps break off. (Noted my comment, possible future > improvement.) Mine have been on the car since '78 and are still intact. > 6.) Binacle mounted controls blocked from view by steering wheel. > (Meant to be used by touch, but noted my suggestion to move the > indicator lights to the dash.) Binacle???? Mine are plainly layed out in easy view and reach of the driver > 7.) Better seat adjustor than the "starwheel" thing. (Told me that the > market wants power seats, so that may be coming.) Just push a lever and the seat slides. peace of cake. But mine is all the way back anyway. > 8.) Door lock buttons not on top of door sill. (Kind of looked at me > funny, like I'm silly for accidentally locking doors with my elbow...) My Land Rover's lock buttons do not sit on top of the door sill. No chance of accidently locking the door with an elbow... a rump maybe > 9.) Arm rests on front doors. (Said "yeah, and nodded his head.) My car has arm rests in the front doors > 10.) Tail light guards a bad design. (Will look into this.) Mounted to > the side of the vehicle by rubber and double stick tape! Tail light guards effective but optional > 11.) Locking differentials available. (Told me that the LR was > designed to get you home from "anywhere" and that this would add > unnecessary strain to the drive train. - no change) Always been a problem but locking diffs available for 109s & 88s if you look & have mega$$$ > 12.) Full gauges, oil, amp, trans temp. (note "market trend" "yuppie > truck" reply.) Full guages standard > 13.) No tachometer "redline" indicated. (Told that the engine is > governed at 5500 RPM anyway, not needed.) I added an electrical tach from a MGB. It fits one of the two large guage holes in the main instrument panel. Pug & play add-on. A redline is not needed because the engine runs out of steam before the engine would blow, about 4K RPM > 14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation > of power/performance... no change) Pertol model does not need premium fuel. > 15.) Front seat "side covers" are a bad design - get kicked off my > your feet. (Noted the problem, will investigate. Admitted that he's > heard of people breaking them.) No problem in my 109 > 16.) Need for opaque covers for the sunroofs. (Most likely only a > concern in the Arizona climate.) My sun roof has second skin held off the lower first skin by plastic standoffs. Its opaque except for the two ovel windows on each side of the top. Mind you opening the top takes 2 people & about 30 minutes. > 17.) Need anchor tie down places for rear "cargo" area. * my offroad > box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my > suggestion, possible future fix.) Lots of places on the side to tie too. > Dave Brown - '94 LR Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA > box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my > suggestion, possible future fix.) Dave looking at your wish list, it looks to me like you should upgrade to a 88 or 109 Land Rover. It meets or exceeds most of your wish list ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 06 Feb 95 20:11:41 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: UK registration numbers So you want to know the UK vehicle registration system The first thing to note is the number represents the YEAR OF FIRST REGISTRATION, and NOT the year of manufacture Up until 1962 the number generally consisted of a combination of letters and numbers, two of the letters were codes for the office that issued tthe number, the rest were the sequence number. In 1962 some offices had run out of sequence numbers so the A suffix was started in 1963., some offices kept the old system for 63, then in 64 the whole country started with the suffix B. 65 was C, 66 D, then in 67 the system switched to an August change date , so E was 67 first half to the end of July , then F was 67 August 1 st to july 31 st 68. 68/69 G: 69/70 h: 70/71 J: 71/72 K; 72/73 L; 73/74 M, 74/75 N; 75/76 P; 76/77 R; 77/78 S; 78/79 T; 79/80 V ; 80/81 W ; 81/82 X; 82/83 Y Then it changed to a prefix letter, 83/84 A; 84/85 B ; 85/86 C ; 86/87 D; 87/88 E; 88/89F ; 89/90 G; 90/91 H ;91/92 J; 92/93 K; 93/94 L ; 94/95 M. It is possible to change the reg from one vehicle to another providing both vehicles are licensed and tested, and of the same year of manufacture or OLDER, not newer. Many LR's were released by the military in the 60's and 70's, they were given the reg number of the 'year of registration', ie a 58 ser 1 released and registered in say Feb 69 would have a G plate. Then in 83 they stopped issuing numbers of the year of registration for older vehicles, many were then given a Q prefix, unless the YEAR OF MANUFACTURE could be proven, then they were given a year related number. Are you with me so far ?. If you build a LR body of say 64 vintage onto a RR chassis of say 76 vintage you can use either number if you conveniently lose the one you do not want. therefore there are plenty of 60's ser 2 's with coil sprung chassis about in the club circuit. Caveat emptor. The LR as we all know is a big kit car, therefore there are many motors on the roads that are not what they seem, it is so easy to change the bulkhead number plate, Craddock sells blank replacements for 15 bucks, the ones from Rover cost a couple of hundred dollars and need plenty of documentation. It is possible to send the log book to Swansea ( licensing centre for the country ) and have the engine number changed with no formality. Log books carry the written warning that a log book is not proof of ownership. Log books can be bought ,sold , exchanged in several places, not legaly I might add, to give any year of reg. you want. Pre suffix reg numbers usually command a premium in the used number market, many older vehicles are worth more for their numbers than for the vehicle. There are a few pre suffix numbers issued nowadays that cannot be exchanged from one vehicle to another, they contain the letters WS as the last of the three letter sequence. Makes me feel old now that I think of the days we looked for a B reg on the 1st Jan 1964 to see which neighbour could afford a new car. Many people now wait for the new letter in August each year. Hope that it is clearer than mud, any questions give me acall. regards Bill Leacock limey in exile ( cold exile, it was -40 wind chill yesterday ) From Roger Sinasohn Mon Feb 6 19:22:43 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:22:43 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers Keep in mind that a standard conversion like a Carawagon or Doormobile is not the only way to go. A standard 109 (PU or SW) can be turned into a wonderful home-away-from-home. I have seen some beautiful work done. Even my own clumsy attempts at woodworking have resulted in a very useful mobile home. My girlfriend and I took my 109" all through western Canada this past summer. One of the main benefits of a DIY conversion is that you can truly tailor it for your lifestyle. Mine, for example, is completely removeable, and I'm working on a desk that could be used instead of the cabinets. (I can then use it as a mobile office when working.) I really enjoy figuring out what to do next, and stealing ideas from others. It's also great when you find some neat item that would be perfect in a LR, even though that's not what it was designed for. (Like the "Hockey puck" halogen lights I'm going to use that are intended for kitchens.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Feb 6 19:22:35 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:22:35 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: More! > > (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and > > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Please go on! > - Stephen I'll second that emotion! (Do we sit, stand or kneel during this part?) singing hallelujias... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 23:01:20 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:01:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Leaf springs Tom Stevenson wonders..... > By the way, who is Rube Goldberg? Is he of the same ilk as > Heath-Robinson? Haven't a clue who this Heath-Robinson is/was but Rube Goldberg (1883-1970) was an American cartoonist who drew fantistically complicated devices that preformed the simplest operations. These typically involved chickens laying eggs, candles burning ropes, balls rolling down ramps, buckets of water, gogs, gears, levers and anything else you could imagine. The term "a Rube Goldberg" usually is used to describe a device that is way to complicated for what it has to do (like the clutch/brake linkage on a Ser I)!! This term sadly isn't used as much as it used to, except by us "old farts".. :) I think that there is some engineering school here in the States that has a Rube Goldberg contest every year. The students have to design and build some really rediculous machine. And, it has to work, too! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 23:01:49 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:01:49 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: rover maintanence John Hess changes his oil.... > While changing the oil, I was able to locate the source of an oil leak (I > think). I believe oil is leaking from the adapter/block interface; I ------------ > So, is there a gasket there? There must be, right? Part number please? John... can't help with the part number.. Seems there should be a gasket there... If all else fails, make one yourself. Brown paper bag works fine for that sort of stuff or you can go to an auto parts store and buy some gasket material. Clean up the adaptor and trace out the outline. There is also a technique where you use a very light hammer (a tack hammer works well). Hold the paper against the surface you want to make the gasket for and tap the paper with the hammer. You have to tap hard enough to leave an outline of the surface but *not* hard enough to damage the metal surface. If you do it right, you can usually seperate the "gasket" from the surrounding material without having to cut anything. It works, really. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 23:02:20 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:02:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: US Military Specs? Roland wonders.... > Why did the US use Land Rovers as opposed to Hummvees, what model > LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers. I believe that it was 110's and the US Army Rangers purchased them. The story I heard was that during the "Desert Storm" operation, the Rangers were sufficiently impressed when they saw 110's pulling out Hummers that were stuck in the sand. (I could be wrong, but it *does* sound good!) Also, you gotta remember, the Hummers were designed for any idiot to drive - diesel engine and automatic transmission. (Not that there's anything wrong with a diesel.) The transmissions were prone to failure because the motor pool jockeys didn't know how to adjust them, or some such nonsense. The 110 was a *much* better choice. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 6 23:04:44 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 23:04:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re:New Range Rover..and more. On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > My Land Rover is semi-Fabulous and was a bargain at only $375 US. Hmmm, not bad. Mine was $1500 with a pto winch (Koenig), but then again that's denoted in the northern Peso & it is a 109 Station Wagon. > My Land Rover is capable of being started in any gear combination including 3 hi > & 3 lo. Why would this be a big deal. > > New interior, > Mine could use one none Original interior included in purchase price. Actually in very good condition (stored in the basement) > My seat belts do not retract when parked at an angle Mine has no seat belts to retract at any angle & none are required (seat belts required after 1972 in Canada, 1968 in the US I believe) > > 3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available) > Mine mounts to the front none So does mine, but there are others in OVLR that have the centre mounted type as well as rear mounted winchesFrom Mike Rooth Tue Feb 7 9:13:47 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 9:13:47 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: More! > > > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) > > Please go on! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California I agree.I cant wait for what happens when Joe Lucas says "Let there be light". Cheers Mike Rooth From SE THOMAS 7 95 Feb GMT 1912 Date: 7 Feb 95 12:05:23 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: 2286 or 2052????? In August I bought a 1964 IIA 2.25 Diesel (so I thought). It didn't go too fast (they don't), it was noisy (they are, you know that) and it was very smoky. No problem, new intake hose, recon injectors, re- timing should improve it. It did, a bit. It was going through oil like nobody's business, and only getting 15- 18 mpg, well we only paid 950 pounds, we knew it would take some work. So over the last week we have removed the engine and on Friday we took it to be rebored. Yesterday I was told that my 2.25 was in fact just a 2 litre. Aside from the shell-shock (well I expected it to have worn larger not smaller) it didn't bother me, aside from the fuel and oil consumption I was happy with it. But I need to know two things, can I get rebore size pistons, rings and main bearings if the crank needs regrinding? Also when we removed the valve compressor springs and collets there were no oil control seals on top of the valve guides. If the bore turns out to be okay could this have been the engine oil problem I was having?? On the other hand could it have been compounding the problem???? Thanks in advance, I will send this on even though I don't have the engine numbers on me at the moment, but after reading up I think I must have the late 50's 2052 engine, I will check the bore size with the garage. Yours in confusion Stephen Thomas (0121 452 1405) From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 7 09:11:27 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: 2286 or 2052????? "DIESEL ENGINES 322" Now class, what we have here is a small bore version of the same engine....... the 2 liter has "wet sleeves" and the normal pratice is to just to replace the pistons and sleeves....I have a series one club news letter and someone had a set of pistons and cylinders for sale cheap...do you think I can find the newsletter?...ha! It must have been #73 or 74.... the pistons are also different on top. the later engines were fitted with a modified swirl chamber to reduce noise (Ummm fellas?..It didn't work...) so even if you got a different block (say a 2.25 petrol, fit your rods,crank and cam,new 2.25 diesel pistons) I'm not sure the 2.25 diesel pistons will work with the early head.....if the sleeves are good in the 2 liter, I'd fit new rings and let it go....as to the valve seals, the early engines were fitted with "O" rings *inside* the valve guides... if you say that there is no provision for these, I'd have new guides fitted that take the the later seals (external).... Perhapse a newer 2.25 or a 2.5 might be cheaper in the long run? steve...... PS if you use the wet sleeves..replace the top and bottom seals on the cylinders...otherwise you will go from wet sleeves to wet sump in no time what so ever!!! "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From "Lapa, Hank" Tue Feb 07 08:02:06 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 08:02:06 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Subject: US Military Rovers Here's what I know from being there... The Land-Rover fits into a V-22 Osprey (tilt-rotor aircraft) and a Hummer doesn't. I used to work with folks supporting the Navy's V-22 Office, and coincidentally saw a viewgraph of that beloved silhouette inside the hold of one of these things. I think this is the seminal reason that US Army Rangers here in the US had need for L-Rs. Since the Army pulled out of the V-22 program, leaving the Marines to fend for themselves, the Army has no compelling reason to keep them. Perhaps they should turn them over to the Marines against the day the USMC has a few billion extra dollars not being spent in Somalia or Haiti to actually buy some V-22s for their legitimate work. Also, in some places where US forces maintain(ed) a presence, local law dictates that vehicles be purchased on the host economy. Thus the Navy EOD Team Rangey I saw outside my hangar at the US Naval Air Station/International Airport in Bermuda. Similarly, I understand other Yank EOD units (in Scotland, for example) have driven Rovers. Series Two, Through-and-Through, Hank From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 7 14:44:10 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 14:44:10 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: 2286 or 2052????? Steve, LRW mag tells us that the 2litre was prone to cracked heads and warns to check carefully.Certaianly valve guide oil seals will add to oil consumption.I woudl suggest John Craddock as the best place to try for spares for it.The 2.25 has a bore of 3.562" with a 3.5" stroke(this is according to LRO).I would imagine the 2litre has the same stroke but was bored out. Be interested to know how you get on. Cheers Mike Rooth From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 7 08:19:48 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 08:19:48 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch In message <9502060110.AA09838@ InterServ.Com> Mark Talbot writes: > All, > Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 foot [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? > Mark E-Z bleed is the only thing i've tried that works for me. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Russell Burns Tue Feb 7 8:23:32 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 8:23:32 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Rube Goldberg > I went to the Rube Goldberg enginerring school of fine Arts.... > Where else would I learn to build such creative enginerring masterpieces. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 47 lines)] > > #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol > --IAA14467.792174103/lint.cisco.com-- From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Tue Feb 7 11:46:58 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 11:46:58 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello gang: Miss you all. Mercruiser running great! Does anyone know where I could buy ant Doormobile pieces from without having to deal with Mike Smith at East Coast Landrover (the self proclaimed North American representative for the Doormobile Owners Club UK)? If you know of a roof, bunks, seats, or any other bits, please E-mail me directly. Thanks. R&D P.S. still have one more rool bar that is not spoken for if anyone wants to "get in" on the deal at cost! From Russell U Wilson Tue Feb 7 12:09:35 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 12:09:35 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Hummers(Hummve) I just had to throw my opinion in to this as one who as put about 5,000 miles on a Military hummve. I spent 4 years in the U.S. Army and drove the sh*t out of my hummer. Don't take this as a slag on Rovers, god knows I love mine, but....and here is the big BUT. The hummer is without equal off road. Here is the flip side though, the thing is a pig on the road. Everything that makes it so great off-road makes it a kidney jarring beast on pavement. Given a choice (in my dreams) of being given a 110 or a Hummer I'd take the 110. As to why the Rangers had use for some 110s I can only guess but here is something for everyone to ponder. The U.S. is the only country to use the Hummer. IF, and I say IF, you were an American force ie Rangers and you were in a place that you might not want to be caught in...A Hummer makes it kind of hard to be passed off as some of the locals.....or UN. Here is another tid-bit. One of the Rangers primary functions is to provide support for the Delta Force which tries to use all non-U.S. equipment in case of capture we (the U.S.) can deny that the men are ours. This is all guess work combined with what I've seen in the past. So I'd say that they were going to do something somewhere that they were not supposed to be and needed a vehicle that would not scream HERE COMES THE AMERICANS.. That is of course is these 110s even exist....hell the Delta force doesn't even exist...right? ha ha ha ha ha.....;) Cheers from Pittsburgh Russ From Morgan Hannaford Tue Feb 7 09:15:36 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:15:36 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Hybrid vigor Well, I'm giving a lecture to my Biology 1B class tonight here at U.C. Berkeley. The topic I think I'll cover is HYBRID VIGOR. Hybrid vigor is a well known phenomenon in biology circles where hybrids of two, inbred lineages are usually better competitors and more fit. A good example is mutt dogs. They are usually smarter and express fewer genetic diseases. Well, enough bio diatribe, I have to go pet my dog..... "Here Rover"......... Ciao, Morgan From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Sat Feb 4 17:47:14 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 17:47:14 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Lorry insurance /4. How about insurance? Do people find the rates particularly high? I doubt /they are below average, but one never knows. I'll contct my agent, but /wonderedif anyone had any insurance horror stories with D90's, particularly /in the wakeof certain idiotic comments on how they roll. Are insurance rates for 90s bad in the US, then? (At LAST!!! Something more expensive? Yeeeeaaaahh!) My 90 in the UK is unsured in the same band as things like Escort 1300s. They are seen as a low risk vehicle - slower than anything except a milk float and nobody bothers with insurance claims when they ding a landrover - the textured look adds street cred. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Sat Feb 4 18:02:50 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 18:02:50 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Tires....again /Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with* /tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply /boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood. Any advance on all radials, 3 running tubes, front right tubeless? (Bit of an oversight, that.........:( +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Sat Feb 4 18:11:18 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 18:11:18 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Lorries and Hummers > LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers. /I believe that it was 110's and the US Army Rangers purchased them. The /story I heard was that during the "Desert Storm" operation, the Rangers were /sufficiently impressed when they saw 110's pulling out Hummers that were /stuck in the sand. (I could be wrong, but it *does* sound good!) Also, you There was a very funny article on Top Git^H^Hear where the reviewpillock was testing out a Hummer dolled-up for the road market. He got it bogged on a gentle sand slope (I'd have given it a go in my old Escort with a run up.....). Just at the most embarassing moment, a Disco putters disdainfully past with no discernable effort. /gotta remember, the Hummers were designed for any idiot to drive - diesel Seems some dont managed it........ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Feb 7 10:35:57 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 10:35:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Tires, again and again... > Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with* > tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply > boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood. none Maybe this is just one of those old rover tales, but I've been told by my wholesale tire dealer (and others) that the tubes for bias ply tires won't hold up in a radial tire due to the flexing and the resultant heat, with predictable and unpleasant consequences. Anybody know if this bit of conventional wisdom holds water, er... air? Walt Swain, 1967 109 IIA Safari SW Davis, CA From "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" <9155557@arran.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk> Tue Feb 7 19:03:12 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 19:03:12 +0000 From: "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" <9155557@arran.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk> Subject: Introduction & Wheels/Tyres Hi, Having read the digest for a little while I thought that I should possibly say hello. I was introduced to the list by Ian Stuart (Do I admit that?) and am a Vet Student at Edinburgh University in Sunny Scotland. On the more important side I too am a LR owner, although mine is one of Solihull's most aerodynamic creations - the 101. A SIII 88" owner before that I managed to buy the forward control last summer from Crook Bros. in Preston (UK) with only 6,000 km on the clock. Needless to say it is one of the thirstier of the Land Rovers - running a lovely big 3.5 V8! I noticed today that Stefan Jacob commented: > On the 16" rims you can go as far as 9.00, though I would strongly advise > to swap for 1-ton rims in that case, or your turn-around radius will be Are the "1-ton" rims that you are talking about the 101 rims, because they don't fit standard Series Land Rover hubs. The Series have five wheel studs whereas the 101 (just to be different) had six. Anyway, happy rovering, Rupert From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Feb 07 16:26:33 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 16:26:33 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: TC 2000's My nephew in Eugene, Oregon has an opportunity to buy a '67 TC2000 for $450. At that price, I told him he probably couldn't go wrong, especially as it runs and has parts and mechanical manuals. I mentioned about the DeDion axle tubes that can get crushed by casual placement of floor jacks, but couldn't really comment much further on what to look for. More importantly, do any of out northwest members have a recommendation on a garage/mechanic in Eugene/Salem/Portland area? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Lloyd Allison Tue Feb 7 22:10:36 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 22:10:36 GMT From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Solihull Joel Reiter's home page has the Rover tour on the world wide web - link to it from homes (Does anyone else have a home page featuring Land-Rovers?) Am I correct in thinking that Land-Rover import Range Rovers, Discoveries and D90s (which are a special variant) into the USA but not D110s or D130s ? Can anyone tell me what dates the various imports (re-)started? Are V8 D90s still being imported? The UK D90s and D110s now seem to be limited to the 300 series 2.5 Tdi engine. (Australia is importing V8 RRs, V8 Discoveries (not sure about diesel) and Tdi D110s and D130s only - not D90s.) Lloyd From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 8 00:33:12 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:33:12 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) (+) On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Russell U Wilson wrote: > Everything that makes it so great off-road makes it a kidney > jarring beast on pavement. It's an experience! > The U.S. is the only country to use the Hummer. Not quite. Gen. Michael Rose and other VIP's use Hummers in ex-Yugoslavia. Also, a couple af years ago during an AMF exercise i got a lift in a Hummer registered by the army of Luxembourg. I think the two guys WERE the army of Luxembourg :-) Also got a lift with some italians in a Fiat mil off roader. It was basically a Fiat 127 (too small to be known in the US) with 4wd and taller subchassis. It could smell various oils, petrol, exhaust, warm plastic, rotting rubber, spicy food, wet upholstery and a few other things i couldn't identify. It sounded like everything was just about to fall apart. Nice chaps though. Later sv/aurens From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 7 15:55:02 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:55:02 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Matchbox Land Rover Fire Engine Matchbox has come out with a remake of a 1948 Land Rover Fire Engine. It's 1/43 scale, and costs $26.95. It's only available via mail order, or through one of 4 Matchbox Collectibles outlets on the east coast. The phone number to order or get more info is (800)858-0102. I've ordered one, and will let you all know when it gets here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 07 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 07 Feb 95 19:36:46 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 7 th Feb Richard , sorry !! for moving birmingham further north , my excuse is that I have worked in the aluminium radiator industry fo the past 18 years and exposure to aluminium is noted for it's effect on the memoty, BAD. and I have used neither of those airports in my travels. As an aside, my home in Stockton On Tees,( near to Teesside airport ) up in't hills is called Solihull, when we bought the house 3 years ago my wife wanted to give it a name, the name she mentioned sounded to me like that of a nursing home so I told her and said why not give it a good name like Solihull ( honest I was joking ) but she adopted the name, our neighbour is an ex Solihull resident and she says she can't imagine anyone wanting to name thier home after THAT place. John Hess, the gasket was part number 598354 but it has been superseded, follow Micheals advice and make your own from a piece of cornflake packet, also makes good differential gaskets. Diesel engine rebuild, buy the ROVER manual, not the rubbish Haynes and follow EXACTLY the valve timing procedure, this is important for the 'power'. Do not follow the mechanics method of finding the high point on the cam, it has a flat profile. Then follow the pictures for inserting the pump drive gear. The timing marks for the pump are under a small steel plate on the side of the pump, ser 2 did not have an external mark, this was added on ser 3. After running the engine for a while time it by ' ear', fine tune the position of the pump by moving it very slightly in the opposite direction to the arrow on the nameplate and try it until you get the right engine knock and no smoke. Richard asks about steering rods :- jack up the front of the vehicle to raise the tyres from the ground turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and count the turns, at each extermity check that the wheels are clear on the springs on the inside of the tyre. half the number of turns and turn the steering wheel this number, thus the wheel is in the centre position. At this stage ignore the spoke positions. the front wheels should be aligned for straight ahead, whether they are or not proceed as follows. look at the steering idler top arm, this should be parallel to the front crossmember that it is on top of. if not, adjust the steering rod length by slackening off the steering joint clamp screws and shortening or lengthening the rod by rotating it, one end has a left hand screw thread and the other a right hand screw thread. Examine the bottom arm on the steering idler, this should be pointing straight ahead, that is parallel to the side of the chassis., if it is not remove it and refit in the correct position, Now are the wheels aligned for the straight ahead position, if not adjust the length of the drag link as described for the steering rod, until the wheels are straight., check the full lock to lock position to ensure that you have full and equal travel both ways. While you are at it, particularly if it is a 109, you will notice that lock is restricted by along screw in the swivel housing which strikes a plate on the axle end, saw of the extension at the nut, or try to tighten it and it will shear in this position or remove it and replace with a short screw only. this will reduce your turning circle. Before you start worrying about it, you will only travel on full lock at very low speeds, unless you are an off road racer so it will not damage your transmission to have FULL lock. If this does not improve your steering then give me a call, if you want to increase the lock further there are other mods to do. now that the steering is central, remove and replace the steering wheel in the position that suits your view, on a series 3 also centre the indicator switch canceling boss. The procedure youa re following to lubricate the steering box is correct. Follow the same exercise every day for 2 or three weeks or until two days in a row you cant put in any more oil, the 90 oil takes AGES to seep through the gaps in the bearings inside the relay into the bottom bearing. Mike Rooth writes about using tubes with 205 x 16 tyres, a word of advice, " always insist upon Michelin or Avon 205 x 16 tubes for Radial tyres." " Do not use tubes that are marked for 6.00 or 6.50 x 16 tyres. The radial tubes ( which can be used with cross ply tyres ) are of a softer material designes to be gripped by the radial tyre. If you use the crosss ply tube you will be plagued with punctures Many tyre shops fit ther cross ply tubes becuaste they are much cheaper than the radial tubes. it.s not worth it as with the radial tyres a puncture will often result in damaging the soft wall beyond repair. This also applies to the Michelin XY, XCL, XS, XC 4x4 etc range of tyres. use the Michelin tuibes for the tyre size. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. Next look at the From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 7 20:06:11 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 20:06:11 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Newby and already some "steering" Qs RP Kleihorst writes: > A problem with the LWB is that the steering was rather vague. On the check > I had already noticed two worn tie-rods on the steering(?) arm: the arm that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > the wrong steering arm? Can somebody measure up a correct LWB IIa steering > before I scrounge through the pile of SWB II parts and find one thats even > worse. The arm you are talking about (relay to right swivel housing) can be used to adjust the position of your steering wheel. However, given the measurements above, and the claim that the lever on the relay arm is straight when the steering wheel is straight (where are the tyres pointing in this case??) leads this lro to wonder if maybe someone at some point in time removed the lever and put it back on one or two splines off (of where it was beforehand). The *two* levers on the relay should be at 90 degree angles to one another, and the lower one should point directly forward when the wheels are pointing straight forward. Bugger the measurements. Put your new tie rod ends on (got 'em yet?), make certain your two levers on the relay are 90 degs apart, and simply twist the arm (relay to right swivel pin hosing...the steering drag link tube) until you have the steering wheel where you want it (while your wheels still point directly forward). The *other* arm (the steering track rod, that connects the two wheels) is used to adjust your toe in. Again, bugger the measurements. The toe in should be adjusted so that the front of the wheels are cantalevered inward 1/16" relative to the rear of the front wheels. The easy way that I was once told about (and it works) is to jack up the front end, mark each tire with a strip of paint all around the outer perimeter, make a jig-out of a nail and a 2x4-, then mark each tire (all around your freshly painted perimeter), and make your measurements (at 3 and 9 o'clock). A third hand is helpful. > Also, while busy giving long due maintenance, I tried to oil the steering > relay in situ. According to the manuals, you'll have to remove two of the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > upper relay arm is definetily in the way. In the end, I wasn't able to get > any oil in, it just kept pouring out of the opposite bolt hole. Oi. There are a couple of types of relays here. I think one has one bolt near the top and the other has two (someone???). You sure the manual states to remove the oil seal retainer bolts??? There should be at least one bolt near the top of the relay housing. You should be able to snake some oil into it even without allowing for pressure to escape if you use a thin hose or some such. Then again, if all the oil you did add came out the opposite bolt hole then maybe it is full??? cheers, rd/nigel From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 7 20:25:09 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 20:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Tires, again and again... Radial tubes are thicker...you can feel the difference when 'ya pick 'em up....Radial=heavy...bias=light.....I got really good at this when the light in the stock room broke and nobody could figure out where the wiring went.."Heft,heft,heft..Yep it's a radial!"... really and for true.... steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Craig Murray Wed Feb 8 12:44:25 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 12:44:25 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Diesel woes!!! Hi all, The other weekend I was driving along, when all of a sudden there was a load knock comming from the motor. So I got towed home, and pondered the dint in the pocket that this knock was going to cause. Turns out that the pin that stops the combustion chamber from spinning round had planted it self on the top of no. 2 piston. But how can that happen I hear you say, as the pin is held in by the head gasket and the block! Well the only way it could have gone in is through the combustion chamber, which it did by knocking a hole in the top of it. But this is not the major woe. When I was building the motor I had a new combustion chamber fitted to no. 2 cylinder, and it turns out that the machining joint made it so that the combustion chamber was recessed in the head, not level, so the combustion chamber has been copying the piston and moving up and down, the only problem is that when moving down, it has managed to wear through the head gasket and into the block and the piston. Besides a block and piston shave, can any one out there see any way to fix the block, at the moment I am just going to chuck another 2.25 diesel in that was pulled out of a series III when the owner wanted a 350 chev put in, and is ment to run ok. Yours, woefully pissed off, and off the road again!!!!!!!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Craig Murray Wed Feb 8 13:12:24 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 13:12:24 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Engine conversions Hi all, My experiance with engine conversions is that I had a 161 holden motor in my series 1, and now I have a 2.25 diesel in it. The Holden soon died of dust inhalation (Does any one acctually know how to spell this word??) and the holden also had no power or torque at low rpm, and this is still with all original transmission. The only non Land Rover part of my transmission is a Macnamara Diff lock in the rear axle, I would say non original, but I have Series II diffs a Series III Motor, Series IIA F sufix gear box and the original Series 1 Transfer case. Also of note, when you start uping the power of the motor, the transmission starts to take a pounding. My brother with his 253 V8 boasts that he has only broken a front diff, and that was because the pinion came loose, but does not menchion that he repleaced his gear box because first gear was missing a tooth, and when the gear box was inspected by the local Land Rover guru, when I needed a gear box, that every thing inside it was stuffed, so it would not have lasted much longer. When my Land Rover is running, every thing may over take it on the high way, but, when I am up in the mountains it has no problems, and normally gets to places with a lot less trouble than every thing else. This is my opinion, but if you are going to do a conversion, do it your self, if it breaks a million miles from no-where, then you know how it goes together, and might have an idea of how to fix it. ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Andrew Steele Tue Feb 07 21:17:49 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 21:17:49 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: US Jan 95 sales totals Just a quick summary from the Wall Street Journal this week, some of these are interesting (I think---) Jan 1995 Jan 1994 BMW 6,094 5,053 +20.6 LR 1,097 380 +188.7 Jaguar 857 827 +3.6 Porsche 451 196 +130.1 Total Truck Domestic 143,251 138,262 +3.6 Total Truck Import 5,676 5,777 -1.7 Well, Land Rover was the obvious % sales increase leader this month. Is it time to buy stock in BMW? Andrew Dayton, OH ad158@dayton.wright.edu ** please call if you find an unwanted diesel LR in the midwest, thanks. From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Feb 7 18:30:40 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 18:30:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) (+) To add to this growing bit of trivia, there was an AP (I think) photo in the local rag last week showing a long column of Jordanian Army Humvees doing their thing in the desert. The best and most interesting part was the Land Rover 90 leading the whole thing. No fool, that commanding officer. Regards, Walt Swain On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Russell U Wilson wrote: > > Everything that makes it so great off-road makes it a kidney > > jarring beast on pavement. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > Later > sv/aurens From sohearn@InterServ.Com Tue Feb 7 19:26:49 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 19:26:49 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: Genesis > I'll second that emotion! (Do we sit, stand or kneel during this part?) > singing hallelujias... I'd say we sit behind the wheel in our Rovers. What better than to be IN the altar, eh? +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 07 95 Feb EST 1923 Date: 07 Feb 95 23:26:50 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Importing and all that good stuff Those of you who have written recently about importing Your Land Rover : If you Email us your telephone #, we can give you a few pointers that might help. Uncle Brad - what an excellent rendition of my exact experience, although I think you actually got a bit further than I. I also inquired about the EPA/DOT situation and got the same run around. Would love to know if anyone has sent any $ yet. Did you get any info on the duty/tax situation whic has not been paid on the vehicles. Cheers, Leslie Stutsman U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. Ph/Fax 813-954-4304 "2 Land Rovers Available in Florida and others for building to spec - email for more info" From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Feb 08 00:11:14 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 00:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch William Grouell screws springs into his slave.... > I have a spring loaded bleed screw in the slave. Just loosen the bleed > screw about a turn, attach hose to jar (if you care), pump slow 'till you > feel no more bubbles (keep the reservour full), tighten screw, remove > tube. Marvelous little bleed screws - until they have been in a year or so... Had them on the brakes on Fern.. The little rubber dust caps got lost in the mud somewhere and the moisture/mud/whathaveyou did nasty things to the spring. Had to replace them with regular bleed screws. I suppose they might be OK on my Spitfire, which hardly ever goes out in bad weather, but not so good on the Rovers. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Keerock2@aol.com Wed Feb 8 01:02:06 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 01:02:06 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Re: Those surplus110s & 90s Brad Blevins writes: >I finally got hold of an outfit in VA which is supposedly selling US Military >spec. Land Rover 110s & 90s (1992) which are still in the crates. This is an >equipment broker, as far as I can tell. >I introduced myself as the editor of the Aluminum Workhorse magazine and told >him that I was interested in letting our readers know the real story on the >vehicles and perhaps even getting one myself (all true). The fellow I spoke >to said yes, there are a bunch of them here in the U.S. (450 somewhere in >Indiana) and more to come (for a total of 2000). And yes they could be >purchased in smallish lots, perhaps as small as 10 vehicles. Yes, I'd love to hear anything more you can find out about these things. And hey, do they come with the Brooklyn Bridge, or is that a dealer option?? >And one of the postings mentioned that some of the >engines were 170hp, 6.5 liter diesel V-8s. Wow, that's power. However, I have to cross-reference this response to the recent debate here on the net about engine-swapping. To me the joy of driving a vehicle, especially a special-interest vehicle, is driving it just as the engineers planned the thing. In high school I had a wonderful, stock '67 Ford Mustang (well, it did have huge back tires and a little rake, but all else was legit) that would blow the doors off of any other muscle car around, including the idiots chopping the hell out of their Mustang's engine compartments to make room for a big block Chevy. It falls into the pride of driving/ownership department. >Well, it seems that the fellow I spoke to couldn't give me a satisfactory >answer to my EPA/DOT concern, although he tried. I spoke to his boss about it >and he gave me some B.S. about how all military vehicles are exempt from >these requirements. I can hear myself telling my local California DMV clerk >THAT! LOL. Yes, the Cal DMV has NO sense of humor. And by the way, they sure didn't care about any military vehicle exemption wFrom Mike Rooth Wed Feb 8 9:57:52 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 9:57:52 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) > miles on a Military hummve. I spent 4 years in the U.S. Army and drove > the sh*t out of my hummer. Don't take this as a slag on Rovers, god [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] > ha ha.....;) > Cheers from Pittsburgh > Russ Oh,great.So you try to pass yourselves off as *us*.Then we get the flak. Isnt that taking the "Special Relationship" a bit *too* far? I mean,you chaps could always try to join the SAS,you know.No need to just *play* at it:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 8 12:07:59 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 12:07:59 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Diesel woes!!! Dear woefully pissed off.... There used to be a process called metal spraying.It involved the deposition of new metal on worn areas.I once,many years ago,had a steering worm built up this way.I dont know whether the process is still in use,or whether its any good on cast iron,but it would seem to offer some hope if it is,in fact still available. Cheers Mikw Rooth From Jimmy Patrick Wed Feb 8 07:29:02 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 07:29:02 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: LR homepage Lloyd, My homepage has a picture of Mabel, my 1960 Series II. It also has a picture of Jon Ward's Rover that I stole from someone else's page. It is at: http://www.netpress.com/jimmyp/ Take a look. I will be going on a Land-Rover camping trip in Wales this weekend. I will take some photos of the other rovers and add a page with those photos next week. -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 08 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 08 Feb 95 09:17:04 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Wheels/Tyres... and no end in sight > Are the "1-ton" rims that you are talking about the 101 rims, > because they don't fit standard Series Land Rover hubs. The Series > have five wheel studs whereas the 101 (just to be different) had six. No, no... nothing to do with the 101 Forward Control. There used to exist a S.III 109 HCPU cab truck 1 Ton, very rare specimen, probably never made an appearance Stateside. It had rims that stuck out more. These rims, in a slightly modified form (6.5" as opposed to 5.5" on the 109 HCPU), are nowadays used on the Defender 130 HCPU, the parts number of those rims is ANR1534 or ANR1534PM ('PM' meaning that they are finished with black primer). They fit on any Series hub without a problem, except that it does put a bit more strain on the bearings and, in the absence of power steering, require a bit more muscle. *However* , when suggesting 9.00 tires as a possibility for 16" rims I forgot to warn that on anything else than a Lightweight you would be required to put HD springs & shocks all around and have to cut away part of the front fender to allow for wheel articulation, alternatively to lift the frame by _at_least_ 4" by means of longer shackles and spring mount brackets, plus distance pieces under the rubber frame bump stops. That is, if you want to maintain full off-road articulation capabilities. Stefan From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 8 09:44:16 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 09:44:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Solihull On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Lloyd Allison wrote: > Am I correct in thinking that Land-Rover import > Range Rovers, Discoveries and D90s (which are a special variant) > into the USA but not D110s or D130s ? Correct. > Can anyone tell me what dates the various imports (re-)started? Stopped: LR = 1974 RR = Never imported into USA = 1971 (Canada) Started LR = 1992 (Defender 110, 525 units to USA/Canada) RR = 1987 (USA) 1989 (Canada) (two years later than USA) Above is official stats. Lots (100-1000+) of LR's were imported into Canada between 1974 & 1992 by various governments, mining & oil companies et cetera. > Are V8 D90s still being imported? Yes, for another year or so. Rgds From BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU Wed Feb 08 10:15:54 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 10:15:54 EST From: BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU Subject: U.S. Army Land-Rovers For those interested, in the 29 December 1992 edition of "The Times" (London) an article appeared entitled "Land Rover Wins Order For 48 Special Operations Vehicles From U S Army." The article, located on page 4D, includes a rather nice photo of the model as well as an explaination as to why the Yanks wanted the Land Rovers and what was modified upon them for this role. Most major universities subscribe to The Times and your best hope of finding this article is to check the microfilm archives since most institutions do not yet have the newspaper on CD-ROM. From Bill Yerazunis Wed Feb 8 11:07:26 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:07:26 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: Drover vs. Hummer Well, I went through the "disco vs. hummer" battle last April, when I needed a new 4WD. I test-drove 'em both- new vehicles only. The disco accellerated like a midsize sedan, maybe a little better. At 80 MPH on the Interstate (that is, keeping up with traffic) the noise level inside was quite acceptable (important for prevention of driver fatigue). The seats were comfortable; I could sprawl out in the back. Off-road, the disco was, well, weird. It would go anywhere inside my "courage limit" (unlike my previous 4WD). No grinding, no revving the engine and modulating torque with the clutch to keep traction. It just sorta _went_. Quietly. Gently. The hummer, on the other hand, was loud. It was loud standing still and even louder on the road. It could barely make 80 MPH with a mile-long running start. Interior noise was intolerable at 80- now I *know* why military convoys are typically going only 55- it's so the passengers can hear themselves think! And you think a 109 has a big turning circle- the Hummer is worse! And the hummer was huge, but there was no space inside! Instead, there's a center console the size of a large coffee table or maybe a coffin, and it makes the vehicle clearly a 4-seater at best. The station-wagon version had space in the back, but not a lot- only about three and a half feet vertically- not what you'd expect from a vehicle requiring a seven foot roof clearance! The Hummer had somewhat better ground clearance, but this was only demonstratable with the salesman at the wheel- I refused to attempt the path he suggested. { Courage limit, anyone? } The final straw: a friend who'd spent four years in the Army suggested that if I wanted to drive a Hummer, I'd better sign up for a tour of duty as a Humvee mechanic, because that was the only way I'd be able to keep one running. Everything about the critter is weird, you need special tools for just about everything. "They work great- but when it breaks, you need a humvee mechanic. Really" And the Disco cost $10,000 less. :-) -Bill (white 94 Disco, 27Kmiles in 9 months!) From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Wed Feb 8 09:20:08 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 09:20:08 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: Speedometer Replacement Hey Nuts, Has anybody ever found/looked for a replacement speedometer for the series workhorses -- I mean a good cheap replacement as apposed to the $170 Land Rover one. (ouch) Mine is shot. I oppened it up and it actually is defective from the factory. It worked for 18 or so years but non the less has a production flaw. While we are on the subject, what are the requirements for the speedo. Measurements? Ratios? etc... I have 31" tires. One last comment. Wouldn't it be nice if the LandRover speedo's odometer went up to 999,999 miles rather than 99,999? Jason LaBranch | To find your way, look within! Parallel Products Group | -- AAA Road Atlas Sybase Engineering (510) 922-4690 | From RLZiegler@aol.com Wed Feb 8 12:51:16 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:51:16 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Hess 6cyl. oil adaptor gasket >From parts cat. #4781 (dated 1966) there are 2 gaskets involved between the adaptor and the 6 cyl. block: Joint washer front #274609 and Jt. washer rear #274104. Both will need to be replaced. From stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Wed Feb 08 14:27:14 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 14:27:14 -0500 From: stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Subject: Land Rover Rally in North Georgia, USA Fellow LR Owners: I have no affiliation with the following, but I do plan on attending. >From a flyer: First Annual Batesville Land Rover Rally in The Beautiful North Georgia Mountains March 5, 1995 You (or anyone else you know who likes to have a good time and is lucky enough to drive a Land Rover) are cordially invited to attend the 1st (yes 1st) Annual (optimistic, aren't we) Batesville (Good Morning America proved that there is a Batesville) Land Rover Rally. (Well, it's really just a bit of a bumpy drive through the beautiful, scenic National Forest.) If will be held on Sunday (the only day the Hennesey [local LR Dealer] guys can make it) March 5, 1995 (rain or shine, sleet or snow, unless it's really bad). We plan to meet between 8:00am and 9:00am at the Batesville General Store (intersection of SR 197 and GA 255, 12 miles northeast of Helen, Georgia) for breakfast. (The best anywhere around. You pay.) Then we will leave between 9:30am and 10:00am and take a beautiful trip (some mountain highways, some single lane dirt). Nothing too rough, just a bit challenging. The entire trip is about 50 miles long. We should arrive back in downtown (ho ho!) Batesville about 3:00pm. (Just in time to grab a burger or bowl of chili. You gotta pay again.) Refreshments will be served approximately half way through the trip (included in registration expenses). So, if you can come, (and we sure do hope you can) then just fill out the enclosed form and return it to us by Friday, February 17, 1995. If you have any questions, please give us a call at home 404-343-8283. We look forward to "rovering" with you, Margie and Don Directions: If you nee more details, just give us a call. Get to Helen, Georgia the best you know how. Then follow the signs to Unicoi State Park and once there, continue northeast on SR 356 until it comes to an end and runs into SR 197. Turn right onto SR 197 and go 1 mile. The Batesville General Store will be on the right just past the first stop sign. The phone number at the store is 706-947-3434 (just in case). Other Suggestions: The city of Helen is one of the number one tourist attractions in Georgia. How about coming up early and spending the weekend. The number at the Welcome Center is 706-878-2181. (Remember to bring your camera.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Please cut along dotted line ane mail to the address below.) I or We would like to come have some fun. _____ YES _____ NO There will be _____ adults _____ children _____ four-legged friends I'm enclosing a check to cover expenses. How about $5.00 for adults and $2.50 for children. Children under 12 and puppies (dogs) come for free. I'd also like to order some stuff to remember the fun I just know we're going to have. So I am including the extra $$$$$ to have these doodads ready when I get there. Tee Shirts ___S ___M ___L ___XL ___XXL @ $15.50 (+ $2.50 for XXL) = $_____ Sweat Shirts ___S ___M ___L ___XL ___XXL @ $25.50 (+ $3.00 for XXL) = $_____ Caps ___ @ $8.00 = $_____ TOTAL = $_____ Please make your checks for expenses and stuff payable to: Don or Margie Nelson 4010 Camden Way Alpharetta, HA 30202-4454 We look forward to seeing you and the fun of experiencing what the north Georgia mountains are about Ya'll come ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (404) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (404) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com From UncleBrad@aol.com Wed Feb 8 15:01:22 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:01:22 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Military Surplus Rover news I think the guys I finally ended up talking to are South American mafia types. After going around about the DOT & EPA requirements, I got the sense that they were uncomfortable talking more about these Land Rovers. Like maybe I was some sort of government spy trying to catch them in some illegal activity. I got a call back later saying that the vehicles are NOT in the country and are NOT for sale in the country and would I please NOT pass out their phone numbe (That's why I haven't given it out). Maybe they are worried that they could get into trouble even selling these vehicles here. Even later, I got a call from someone else telling me that he had called them up trying to arrange some sort of international deal and was told pretty much the same thing. He said that those guys mean serious business. I don't think they trusted him either, after being interrogated by me so recently, so he lost the opportunity to work anything out with them as far as I know. Bottom line on that avenue is "dead end". (I hope that's not an unfortunate choice of words.) See ya! Brad From Kelly Minnick Wed Feb 8 13:07:18 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 13:07:18 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc RE: Misc questions/comments I have some misc. questions/comments: 1. Most of the people I know are running stock Rover rims without tubes. This has not been a problem for me in the last 5 or so years. Are they suppose to leak? Maybe you shouldn't have told me! 2. Bladder for the 88" side tanks? If I get hit that hard from a side impact, will I still be alive? 3. Starter leads. I only have two. One ground wire and one to the relay. 4. Seems to me that if I only change the diffs from 4.7 to 3.54 I will have a 30.1 overall in first. (compared to 40:1) I've found in rough rock heaps that I need even slower than 40:1 to keep from tearing the vehicle up. Traction seems to be the problem, hence my ARB locker dream. You can have the torque to pull the 30:1, but I wouldn't want the limitations on slow-speed crawling. (hence back to my RR trans/transfer & diffs!) It's not easy, but it's FUN! Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "George S. Reiswig" Wed Feb 8 14:46:06 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:46:06 -0700 (MST) From: "George S. Reiswig" Subject: Defender 90 Hello, all. Forgive me for signing up prematurely, but I may own a Landy someday. I was hoping to find out a bit more about them from the experts, who are bound to give me their objective, unbiased opinions! My current vehicle does very well off road, and on road as well. I test drove a D90 in Colorado Springs at Christmas, but could not take the thing anywhere where challenging terrain presented itself. My Isuzu has a rear locking dif, 500 mile range with the stock tank, an apparently tighter turning circle, and is more comfortable on-road. The D90 was more comfortable on the tiny amount of dirt we DID find. I also like the utilitarian demeanor of the beast. So, all you D90 owners...why should I plop down such an exhorbitant amount of money for the D90? The salesman said that lockers or limited slips were unnecessary, due to the wheel travel. Well, maybe I shouldn't believe a claim like that from a salesman...what do you think? Also, how available are additinoal parts for it, such as a larger fuel tank? I will appreciate all input. As I am in digest mode, it would be most kind of you to e-mail me directly. Thanks again in advance. _______________________________________________________________________________ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ George Reiswig - '90 Isuzu Amigo Red Rock Four Wheelers ARB Rear Locker, Warn XD9000 Winch Southwest 4WD Association 32X11.50-15 BFG Moab MT, air tank Las Cruces 4WD Club Body armor and scratches WANTED: V-6 conversion, front limited slip, transfer case modification for lower final "God is dead..." - Neitzsche drive ratio. "Neitzsche is dead." - God +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Russell Burns Wed Feb 8 14:25:13 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 14:25:13 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Defender 90 1: It will pull a trailer. 2: I drover an 88 Isuzu trooper around the canyon lands, and my Range Rover could drive circles around it. I plan to test the d-90 in march. 3: Aluminum does not rust. 4: You can eat breakfast on the flat fenders 5: overbuilt 6000lbs GRVW 6: They have a personality (some blame this on the lucas electronics) Russ Burns 92 Range Rover 94 D-90 From bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Wed Feb 8 17:20:40 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 17:20:40 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: For Sale Dear friends I've found a larger LRR4^[[D(opps)Land Rover to replace my 88 with. So I must part with my first pride an joy to pay for the new one. I hope that you'll be able to help me as such here is my ad. '73-SIII 88 Limestone in color it's quite original in condition I have a spare engine for it I've replaced the original seats with Trakkers in Moorland. It;s Limestone in color(tan) and has all the original parts it came with Yes, it's a show winner. So if you or anyone you know is interested please e-mail me or call or wirite write me Ben Freeman (206)3653514 From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Wed Feb 8 18:39:01 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 18:39:01 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Series III 88 SPECS WANTED Hello, I've recently put myself in the market for a Series III 88, and I would like any specs anybody would like to give such as, gross weight, height to top of roof, minimum ground clearance, avaiable instruments. Also I wouldn't mind any pro's and cons about the Series III, just so as any cons are followed by which vehicle would provide a better item. Also, what would be the best year to look for? Thanks. -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Feb 08 15:51:02 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 15:51:02 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Military Land Rovers I was picking up some stuff I had bought yesterday at the gov't surplus auction on base yesterday and was talking with one of the fork lift operators. we were commenting on how the two M-151 jeep trailers had been sold for $375 (for one with out a tire and rim on one side, a flat on the other and no tail lights at all) and $400 for a mostly intact one. (IMO they were worth no more than $100). Anyway the fork lift guy was mentioning that Edwards Air Force base was dumping all of their trailers because of they had gotten rid of all of their jeeps and bought Hummers and Land Rovers. Now I did have my Land Rover with me, but I don't think he was ever in the position to be able to read any of the tags that said Land Rover. So as far as I could tell this was a completely unsolicited comment about Land Rovers from a guy who usually works at Edwards. I tried to press him on the matter, but he was called away to deal with another person. I have never been to Edwards, so I can't even attempt to confirm the rumor. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications Internation Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 08 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 08 Feb 95 19:57:28 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Wednesdays digest. The 2 litre cylinder diesel cylinder head will fit a 2 1/4 petrol or diesel block, but watch out for the water jacket drain holes, use the head gasket to compare patterns and add the appropriate holes, can't remember which way the drilling is required, it was 20 years ago, the head will not fit with the later timing case cover, the thermostat housing is bigger on the early heads. It is possible to build the 2 litre crank, cam, head, pump, timing cover etc onto a 2 1/4 block, The timing cover of the later 2 litre diesels are sought after by the 2 1/4 racers because they were made from aluminium. The loose hot spot damage to the block is best repaired by changing the block. I have seen a weld repair and liner job done but it is more expensive than changing the block. The petrol and diesel engines use the same block. I have one in Cleveland UK that you can have free. The head can be salvaged by a competent machinist by boring the hole to a larger dia and fitting a sleeve to reduce the bore to take a new hot spot. I did over 50 k miles on an engine with such a repair before selling the vehicle. The Ser 2a and 2B 110 wheelbase forward controls of the sixties and early seventies, the ser 2a and 3 1 ton 109's and the current 130 models were/are fitted with a 7.00 wide wheel rim with the standard 5 stud fixing. The same rim as used on the 101 with a 6 stud nave plate ( i have seen plenty of 101 wheels in which the standard nave plate was fitted to enable the rim to be used on a standard vehicle in the days when 1010 rims were cheap and the FC rims were expensive.) the rims are designed for the 9.00 x 16 tyre but are fitted with a 7.50 x 16 tyre on the 130's In the UK the radial tubes are lighter than the bias tubes Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From Steve Firth Thu Feb 9 00:16:10 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 00:16:10 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Stealth Forces? Russell U Wilson wrote: >>So I'd say that they were going to do something somewhere that they were >>not supposed to be and needed a vehicle that would not scream HERE COMES >>THE AMERICANS..<< Yes,and I hear that the Rangers are tought to only give name rank and serial number in the event of capture, accompanied by the words "Ektually old chep, we are British" -- Steve Firth, '81 109" SIII Safari 2.25 petrol. From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Wed Feb 8 17:46:46 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 17:46:46 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Problems with brake lights All, Hear is a real electric problem for you all lucas gurus. Just put a new battery in the SIII and started getting everything connected up. Almost everything works fine !!! except the following : When I hit the brake pedal, the front side lights and brake/side lights come on, when I put the side lights on, all the side lights come on as they should. However, the brake lights also come on ! I have replaced the brake switch and the same things happens. I have had the brake switch out of the housing and manually pressed it, same thing happens. When I connect up the brake switch with the ignition on, all the side lights come on. I have taken the connector off the fuse for the brake and checked the lights, the lights all work fine. I found the lead to the fuse for the brake, took that off and tried the lights. Lights work fine. I'm real puzzled by this. One other thing, the Land Rover is not running when I do all this. It seems as though the brake lights are wired into the lighting system somewhere, although I can't find it. Any ideas ?????? Is there a bullet connector somewhere where this could be connected by mistake ???? Also, does anyone know the colour of the wires to the reversing lights ? My Haynes manual does'nt show reversing lights, I think its Green, but EVERYTHING is @#$%*&^ GREEN !!! even the line to the brakes !!! Mark From Andrew Steele Wed Feb 08 22:29:34 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 22:29:34 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Re: Problems w/ brake lights Mark, The only advice I can offer is a comment, that come next Christmas, if you don't have the problem tracked down yet, that the inclusion of your Rover into the front yard Christmas display is sure to make it a winner in the neightborhood light decoration contest. Otherwise, (no Land Rover experience here) look for: 1) crudded up fuse box/connectors where several wires are grouped together. 2) look for any group of wires close to a heat source that could have melted them together. 3) If all else fails, it's never considered defeat to systematically replace problem wire runs (and grounds) with new colorcoded/labeled wire. (Jeeeze, typing without an editor is a real pain) Andrew Dayton, OH Hello, calling all diesels, would one of you like to come home to Ohio?) From bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Thu Feb 9 02:28:07 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 02:28:07 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: cont. For Sale Ben Freeman here again on my for sale ad sorry that I didn't put more info. It is as follows. asking price is $9,000.00 US$ but will neg. of course aslo includes my 109 box bed trailer. But will seperate at small deduction. My mailing address is: Benjamin Freeman, 13739-Linden Ave. N. #C-102, Seattle, WA 98133 I can also be reached at the previously mentioned phone # or by e-mail of course, but my e-mail box isn't very big and as such some mail isn't recieved some times. I'll also mention that I'm unemployed at this time, and getting merried in June, an what else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope and get my RHD 109 SIII before I get hitched an she get full control of my life not that she already doesn't for those of you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most helpfull. I'll answer any questions about my Landy with total honesty. So feel free to ask away..:) Good luck to you all as well..... Benjamin Freeman '73-SIII 88 "Joanna" From John Gardener Thu Feb 09 08:57:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 08:57:20 +0000 From: John Gardener Subject: Re: Problems with brake lights Check the earths on the tail lights. You get this sort of problem when ONE of them is lost. From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Thu Feb 09 11:36:59 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 11:36:59 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Mark's brake-lights and my braking system. Mark, >When I hit the brake pedal, the front side lights and brake/side lights come >on, when I put the side lights on, all the side lights come on as they should. >However, the brake lights also come on ! Looks like there is a common earth point for the all rear lamps which is loose/corroded. You're right now all the lights are in the same system. Good luck! Thanks Bill and nigel for the advice for the steering adjustment. I guess lengths don't say anything; just checked with the '60 "88 steering arm and its even longer, but the steering geometry of this car is perfect. I will be working on it this weekend, yes I do have new tie-rods, actually have a dozen or so. The previous owner was with the army and apparently, so he says..., he always got surplus parts. Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. Among the pile of stuf are a couple of master brake cylinders. Including servos. Some are complete with the mounting box and brake pedal They are presumably from a series III. At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? I'm not sure if I would like to go to servo assistance. (I don't fancy isolated toe-touch braking). The dual line master cylinders in the pile are al for servo assistance, could I try to fit one of those in-place of the single line versions, after relocating the bolt holes? Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? Probably this braking subject has been discussed to death, but if anyone has any suggestions/conclusions/ideas please mention them. Its a strange thing how tiny our Mini looks, even behind the 88" take care, Richard P. Kleihorst. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 09 05:50:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 05:50:20 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: 'modified' rovers... Well, in the finest tradition, check out the specs on this recently advertised trails motor (from the Feb. '95 "Bottom Box" newsletter of Pennine LRC): Series I bodied 88" coil sprung special fitted with Rover 2L 16v twin cam (rover 820) engine, 1-ton gearbox, white 8 spokes on trackers, power steering, full comp spec. with ARC log book, won NORC championship 3 times. Very, very competitive and reliable 2,500 GBP From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Feb 09 09:21:07 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 09:21:07 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Rich's brakes Rich asked: none Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. none That's the best place to tackle it. With the tie rod end in the vise, clean as much of the rust off the end as possible with a wire brush, then soak it in penetrating oil (WD-40 is ok, ATF doesn't evaporate as much. Let it sit overnight (guess you already have). Then, heat the end as much as possible (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating oil lying about). Using a pipe wrench an inch or so away from where you think the end of the threaded tie rod is, away from the tie rod, turn one way, then the other, back & forth. Keep an eye on the tube to make sure it doesn't twist or deform. This will put teethmarks in the tube, but I can't think of a kinder way to do it. I had one snap off in the tube once. I took it down to my machine shop and asked him to drill, tap it, and thread a bolt in (this was a left hand tie rod end). He heated the tube to a cherry red and used an impact wrench to turn the bolt in, which turned the tie rod out. I was one happy camper (didn't have to spend $70 for the tie rod or lay the Rover up for the weekend). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Yes. The early type is the same. (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating It's worked well for some, but not for others. If you have a IIA, you will have to cut away a portion of the wing to make the master cylinder fit (if your headlamps are in the radiator breakfast). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating No. You will need a junction block for a dual braking system. I have a single circuit servo system on my 109. It works pretty well. Not overly touchy. But I'd get some more advice before making the swap. I know what you mean about driving a 109 in heavy traffic. Really sucks. I try to avoid it. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:10 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:11 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:11 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Thu Feb 9 10:19:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 10:19:09 -0500 From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Subject: Hummers and More Ostentation Roverphiles, Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall that Lamborghini imported an exotic SUV some ten years ago. What were they called? How long were they imported? I witnessed a gaggle of them in a New Jersey warehouse (all window stickered with EPA gas mileage estimates beginning with decimal points) parked alongside even more Lambo Countachs. I believe they both used the same 12-cylinder engine, and I have a vague notion the SUV had six-wheels, but I may be wrong (I was at the time more awestruck by the sight of dozens of the low-flying winged Countachs). Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on shopping mall speed bumps. Snobbishly, --Paul, '61 S.II-A owner || Real ute owners know an excellent place || to host a habachi bar-be-que party is || around a Land Rover's bonnet From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 9 15:38:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:38:09 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Diesel woes!!! / The other weekend I was driving along, when all of a sudden there /was a load knock comming from the motor. So I got towed home, and pondered /the dint in the pocket that this knock was going to cause. Turns out /that the pin that stops the combustion chamber from spinning round had /planted it self on the top of no. 2 piston. But how can that happen I /hear you say, as the pin is held in by the head gasket and the block! Lucky. It is apparently common for the little indirect combustion chamber to fall into the piston on the 2.25s. This happened to a freind of mine and a coFrom mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Feb 9 14:49:11 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 14:49:11 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: My Brake lights All, Another atempt to track down this lighting problem. I wired from the switch to the brake lamps directly, passing all exisiting wires, pressed the switch, all the side lamps came on. Ran a seperate lead from the switch to the lamps, and directly to the fuse, again all side lamps came on ????? I have basically removed all exisiting wiring and still the problem exisits, the only common wiring here is the RED side lamp wiring to all side lamps, that is dual to the brake lamps. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 09 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 09 Feb 95 18:18:21 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 9th feb Kelly The stock Rover steel rims are NOT tubeless, when the rims were designed pre 1948 they did not have tubeless tyres. There is a risk of air loss round the rivets securing the rim to the nave plate and the rim design is not to the required standard. You have been lucky so far, long may you be so, be careful off road, particularly if you run the tyres at low pressure for traction. Re brake light problems; check the earth connections in the brake light circuit, if the connectionis bad the current will flow down the path of least resistance which will then be the normal light circuit. Check al the wiring connections at the rear of the UK drivers side chassis, they get sprayed with all the road dirt from the rear wheels. A good tip is to extend all the connections up into the body inside the rear corner cap that covers the inside of the rear lights. Jason -- re your speedo request,refer to the digest of 1/5/95 in which I gave some info on this topic. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 09 15:23:39 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 15:23:39 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: My Brake lights Mark, You have a ground problem, or a lack of a good ground I should say. The same type of problem happened to me on my Series lll and this was the solution. Go through with a small stainless steel toothbrush (any hardware store) and remove all the corrosion from the ground connections. Remember that the boys at Lucas brought ground to each light individually and so if on get screwed up, it seeks to ground itself through another source. In your case, the marker lamp circuit. I swear that if you clean up all the ground connections, and verify that they are all secure to the chassis, you're problem WILL go away. Don't give up yet! Or just go buy a D90 and the problem will also go away. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Oregon D90 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:45 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: From the book of Generator And Lucas said, "Let there be light!" And there was, occassionally, light. And Lucas said, "Let there be spark!" And there was, occassionally, spark. And Lucas said, "Let there be ground!" And there was, all too often, ground. And in His wisdom, Lucas gave the Land Rover the power of Fire, and though his reasoning may not be clear, we praise Him for it, and call His name, often. For truly it is written that Lucas moves in strange and mysterious ways. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:53 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:53 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Matchbox Land Rover Fire Engine > The ad makes no mention of these being available singly. Roger, where > did you hear about it? I heard about it in the Collectibles forum on Compuserve. There is a Diecast and Toys section where I am known as one of the Land Rover nuts. Anyway, there are some serious diecast collectors there and one of them (the section leader, actually) alerted me to it. I had no idea there was a subscription sort of thing. I just called up and asked for it. I will also ask about the Matchbox Collectibles outlets on the east coast. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:40:29 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:40:29 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: us rangers 110's There has been alot of chat about hummers vs 110's. Lets get a few things straight here. there are horses for courses and there is the right tool for the job. The Rangers are an air mobile unit and any such unit has WEIGHT and SIZE as a big consideration. For those of you who care to listen the US Forces have been using Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Shorland SB401's, Defender 130's in various parts of the world for various reasons. In the UK they were at pains to belnd and subsequently drove vehciles with British Forces licence plates and markings. In Turkey the US has used Land Rover products for a number of years now. The Rangers were looking for a vehicle that would stow into their current airlift inventory and future aircraft in years to come. The 110 offered a proven light weight airportable compact vehicle. In the SOV role that the rangers use them for they can get at least 7 persons in a fully tooled up 110. It is equiped with a weapons ring that can take just about any weapon you consider to name. Using devices such as on the 110 Hi Cap patrol vehciles weapons platforms the suspension is locked out for really big calibre weapons. The 110 sov was intended for quick in and out operations over realitively short distances but need the kind of mobility that the smaller 110 offers while being able to be underslung to a number of aircraft or inside others. The Hummer is a designed vehcile in a different class to the 110. It is very heavy and not as manouerverable as the 110 and not take to kind of fit that the sov does, they just dont compare for the role, and that is the long and the short of it. Every vehilce that I know of can get stuck, even 110's. Alot has to do with the pink computer behind the wheel if the truth be known. I have pictures of 110's bogged in the Gulf, so what! See my point. As one who has driven a Hummer off road I take my hat off to the designers, it does a job, NOT ALL JOBS. Every vehcile has its limitations and this is why the Rangers bought the lighter 110's. Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:57:48 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:57:48 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover parts policies I have been doing some work on the availability or non in some cases of parts. I have been trying to order the land Rover Experience, which was advertised in LRO and has a genuine part number to it. My local, and I beleive in supporting local bussiness, dealer parts man put the number through the computer and it did not register. I brought the advert in and he went to town trying to get it for me. Without naming names he got the true apathetic answers to his enquiries throught the parts chain. This was the laxadazical attitude that has long tarnished the LR name. Fed up I called Land Rover Parts in the UK direct myself and spoke to the head honcho on parts and got the full scoop. When LR was planning its come back into the NA market they readilly recognised the series owners as a market for parts, but they did not want to have their new vehcile dealers having to look after all of this market. They instead decided to establish approved dealers such as Rovers North in Vermont to deal with this market, because these types of dealers would offer the series owner the full orig spec parts and the aftermarket stuff and that was going to service the markket best. The premise that you can walk into ANY Land Rover dealer ANYWHERE in the world and order a genuine Land Rover part holds true today. The problem that you will encounter is that the dealer may not recognise the part number on his system. There are microfiches available to all dealers that give all the parts numbers that exist. In these you will find a plethora of parts that are not listed in the computer. That is the case here in NA for example. IF the dummies who run the system above the dealer level dont put the effort into traking it down then your dealer will never be able to supply what you want, that is what happened to me. So once again, ANY GENUINE LR PART IS AVAILABLE ANYWHERE, you just might not like the price. Sure the likes of Craddock in the UK might be able to get you a better price, I'm not disputing that. Some people for instance were asking recently about hood mounts for their spare tyres on 90's. When the Defender 90 was approved in the US the mount was put on the rear and that is how it is legally sold, same with the roll cage. What you do afterwards is your bussiness. There is no kit as such for the hood mount but all the parts are available individually through your local dealer 'cos guess what THEY ARE GENUINE LR PARTS. I have invested in the fiches for North American stock and non NAS type 90's and 110's which are available for about 10 bucks a pop up here, when I get a viewer I'll let you have the parts numbers. To sum up, push your dealer to get LRNA or LRC to do their job if you want the part. Have we put that one to bed now? Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 22:15:24 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 22:15:24 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: ex military trailers For any one who has bought the Ex Canadian forces M100 series trailers I have parts manulas for them that give cross references for the various part numbers with varous civvy manufactuFrom bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Thu Feb 9 02:28:07 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 02:28:07 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: cont. For Sale Ben Freeman here again on my for sale ad sorry that I didn't put more info. It is as follows. asking price is $9,000.00 US$ but will neg. of course aslo includes my 109 box bed trailer. But will seperate at small deduction. My mailing address is: Benjamin Freeman, 13739-Linden Ave. N. #C-102, Seattle, WA 98133 I can also be reached at the previously mentioned phone # or by e-mail of course, but my e-mail box isn't very big and as such some mail isn't recieved some times. I'll also mention that I'm unemployed at this time, and getting merried in June, an what else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope and get my RHD 109 SIII before I get hitched an she get full control of my life not that she already doesn't for those of you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most helpfull. I'll answer any questions about my Landy with total honesty. So feel free to ask away..:) Good luck to you all as well..... Benjamin Freeman '73-SIII 88 "Joanna" From John Gardener Thu Feb 09 08:57:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 08:57:20 +0000 From: John Gardener Subject: Re: Problems with brake lights Check the earths on the tail lights. You get this sort of problem when ONE of them is lost. From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Thu Feb 09 11:36:59 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 11:36:59 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Mark's brake-lights and my braking system. Mark, >When I hit the brake pedal, the front side lights and brake/side lights come >on, when I put the side lights on, all the side lights come on as they should. >However, the brake lights also come on ! Looks like there is a common earth point for the all rear lamps which is loose/corroded. You're right now all the lights are in the same system. Good luck! Thanks Bill and nigel for the advice for the steering adjustment. I guess lengths don't say anything; just checked with the '60 "88 steering arm and its even longer, but the steering geometry of this car is perfect. I will be working on it this weekend, yes I do have new tie-rods, actually have a dozen or so. The previous owner was with the army and apparently, so he says..., he always got surplus parts. Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. Among the pile of stuf are a couple of master brake cylinders. Including servos. Some are complete with the mounting box and brake pedal They are presumably from a series III. At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? I'm not sure if I would like to go to servo assistance. (I don't fancy isolated toe-touch braking). The dual line master cylinders in the pile are al for servo assistance, could I try to fit one of those in-place of the single line versions, after relocating the bolt holes? Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? Probably this braking subject has been discussed to death, but if anyone has any suggestions/conclusions/ideas please mention them. Its a strange thing how tiny our Mini looks, even behind the 88" take care, Richard P. Kleihorst. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 09 05:50:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 05:50:20 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: 'modified' rovers... Well, in the finest tradition, check out the specs on this recently advertised trails motor (from the Feb. '95 "Bottom Box" newsletter of Pennine LRC): Series I bodied 88" coil sprung special fitted with Rover 2L 16v twin cam (rover 820) engine, 1-ton gearbox, white 8 spokes on trackers, power steering, full comp spec. with ARC log book, won NORC championship 3 times. Very, very competitive and reliable 2,500 GBP From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Feb 09 09:21:07 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 09:21:07 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Rich's brakes Rich asked: none Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. none That's the best place to tackle it. With the tie rod end in the vise, clean as much of the rust off the end as possible with a wire brush, then soak it in penetrating oil (WD-40 is ok, ATF doesn't evaporate as much. Let it sit overnight (guess you already have). Then, heat the end as much as possible (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating oil lying about). Using a pipe wrench an inch or so away from where you think the end of the threaded tie rod is, away from the tie rod, turn one way, then the other, back & forth. Keep an eye on the tube to make sure it doesn't twist or deform. This will put teethmarks in the tube, but I can't think of a kinder way to do it. I had one snap off in the tube once. I took it down to my machine shop and asked him to drill, tap it, and thread a bolt in (this was a left hand tie rod end). He heated the tube to a cherry red and used an impact wrench to turn the bolt in, which turned the tie rod out. I was one happy camper (didn't have to spend $70 for the tie rod or lay the Rover up for the weekend). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Yes. The early type is the same. (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating It's worked well for some, but not for others. If you have a IIA, you will have to cut away a portion of the wing to make the master cylinder fit (if your headlamps are in the radiator breakfast). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating No. You will need a junction block for a dual braking system. I have a single circuit servo system on my 109. It works pretty well. Not overly touchy. But I'd get some more advice before making the swap. I know what you mean about driving a 109 in heavy traffic. Really sucks. I try to avoid it. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:10 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:11 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:11 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Thu Feb 9 10:19:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 10:19:09 -0500 From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Subject: Hummers and More Ostentation Roverphiles, Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall that Lamborghini imported an exotic SUV some ten years ago. What were they called? How long were they imported? I witnessed a gaggle of them in a New Jersey warehouse (all window stickered with EPA gas mileage estimates beginning with decimal points) parked alongside even more Lambo Countachs. I believe they both used the same 12-cylinder engine, and I have a vague notion the SUV had six-wheels, but I may be wrong (I was at the time more awestruck by the sight of dozens of the low-flying winged Countachs). Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on shopping mall speed bumps. Snobbishly, --Paul, '61 S.II-A owner || Real ute owners know an excellent place || to host a habachi bar-be-que party is || around a Land Rover's bonnet From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 9 15:38:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:38:09 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Diesel woes!!! / The other weekend I was driving along, when all of a sudden there /was a load knock comming from the motor. So I got towed home, and pondered /the dint in the pocket that this knock was going to cause. Turns out /that the pin that stops the combustion chamber from spinning round had /planted it self on the top of no. 2 piston. But how can that happen I /hear you say, as the pin is held in by the head gasket and the block! Lucky. It is apparently common for the little indirect combustion chamber to fall into the piston on the 2.25s. This happened to a freind of mine and a conrod came thru the block. New engine time :( I am told the 2.5NAs in the 90 have had this fixed by a liillte lip round the top of the barrel? Got my fingers crossed. Whatever. Apparently if you hear a little bell in the engine (Like light pinking) STOP NOW. Its trying to warn you...... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 9 15:42:08 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:42:08 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) (+) /To add to this growing bit of trivia, there was an AP (I think) photo in /the local rag last week showing a long column of Jordanian Army Humvees /doing their thing in the desert. The best and most interesting part was /the Land Rover 90 leading the whole thing. No fool, that commanding /officer. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (sorry) As I understand it, the hummers are excellent except for two things. The monster weight makes em sink in tarmac, adn the monster width makes em get stuck between continental plates. Much like the Series one is a better offroad trialer than the 90............. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Richard Jones Thu Feb 9 15:50:24 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:50:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Hummers and More Ostentation Paul V. Gregory writes: > Roverphiles, > Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall > that Lamborghini imported an exotic SUV some ten years ago. What were they > called? How long were they imported? none Wasn't it something like LM02 or am I getting confused > I witnessed a gaggle of them in a New Jersey warehouse (all window > stickered with EPA gas mileage estimates beginning with decimal points) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > but I may be wrong (I was at the time more awestruck by the sight of dozens > of the low-flying winged Countachs). V12 yes, 4 wheels > Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of > well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that > revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on > shopping mall speed bumps. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From C Taylor Sutherland III Thu Feb 9 12:07:44 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:07:44 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: 88" Series III Thanks for the faq that I got mailed to me. There's just a couple more questions I have: From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Feb 9 14:49:11 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 14:49:11 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: My Brake lights All, Another atempt to track down this lighting problem. I wired from the switch to the brake lamps directly, passing all exisiting wires, pressed the switch, all the side lamps came on. Ran a seperate lead from the switch to the lamps, and directly to the fuse, again all side lamps came on ????? I have basically removed all exisiting wiring and still the problem exisits, the only common wiring here is the RED side lamp wiring to all side lamps, that is dual to the brake lamps. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 09 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 09 Feb 95 18:18:21 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 9th feb Kelly The stock Rover steel rims are NOT tubeless, when the rims were designed pre 1948 they did not have tubeless tyres. There is a risk of air loss round the rivets securing the rim to the nave plate and the rim design is not to the required standard. You have been lucky so far, long may you be so, be careful off road, particularly if you run the tyres at low pressure for traction. Re brake light problems; check the earth connections in the brake light circuit, if the connectionis bad the current will flow down the path of least resistance which will then be the normal light circuit. Check al the wiring connections at the rear of the UK drivers side chassis, they get sprayed with all the road dirt from the rear wheels. A good tip is to extend all the connections up into the body inside the rear corner cap that covers the inside of the rear lights. Jason -- re your speedo request,refer to the digest of 1/5/95 in which I gave some info on this topic. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 09 15:23:39 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 15:23:39 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: My Brake lights Mark, You have a ground problem, or a lack of a good ground I should say. The same type of problem happened to me on my Series lll and this was the solution. Go through with a small stainless steel toothbrush (any hardware store) and remove all the corrosion from the ground connections. Remember that the boys at Lucas brought ground to each light individually and so if on get screwed up, it seeks to ground itself through another source. In your case, the marker lamp circuit. I swear that if you clean up all the ground connections, and verify that they are all secure to the chassis, you're problem WILL go away. Don't give up yet! Or just go buy a D90 and the problem will also go away. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Oregon D90 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:45 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: From the book of Generator And Lucas said, "Let there be light!" And there was, occassionally, light. And Lucas said, "Let there be spark!" And there was, occassionally, spark. And Lucas said, "Let there be ground!" And there was, all too often, ground. And in His wisdom, Lucas gave the Land Rover the power of Fire, and though his reasoning may not be clear, we praise Him for it, and call His name, often. For truly it is written that Lucas moves in strange and mysterious ways. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:53 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:53 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Matchbox Land Rover Fire Engine > The ad makes no mention of these being available singly. Roger, where > did you hear about it? I heard about it in the Collectibles forum on Compuserve. There is a Diecast and Toys section where I am known as one of the Land Rover nuts. Anyway, there are some serious diecast collectors there and one of them (the section leader, actually) alerted me to it. I had no idea there was a subscription sort of thing. I just called up and asked for it. I will also ask about the Matchbox Collectibles outlets on the east coast. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:40:29 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:40:29 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: us rangers 110's There has been alot of chat about hummers vs 110's. Lets get a few things straight here. there are horses for courses and there is the right tool for the job. The Rangers are an air mobile unit and any such unit has WEIGHT and SIZE as a big consideration. For those of you who care to listen the US Forces have been using Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Shorland SB401's, Defender 130's in various parts of the world for various reasons. In the UK they were at pains to belnd and subsequently drove vehciles with British Forces licence plates and markings. In Turkey the US has used Land Rover products for a number of years now. The Rangers were looking for a vehicle that would stow into their current airlift inventory and future aircraft in years to come. The 110 offered a proven light weight airportable compact vehicle. In the SOV role that the rangers use them for they can get at least 7 persons in a fully tooled up 110. It is equiped with a weapons ring that can take just about any weapon you consider to name. Using devices such as on the 110 Hi Cap patrol vehciles weapons platforms the suspension is locked out for really big calibre weapons. The 110 sov was intended for quick in and out operations over realitively short distances but need the kind of mobility that the smaller 110 offers while being able to be underslung to a number of aircraft or inside others. The Hummer is a designed vehcile in a different class to the 110. It is very heavy and not as manouerverable as the 110 and not take to kind of fit that the sov does, they just dont compare for the role, and that is the long and the short of it. Every vehilce that I know of can get stuck, even 110's. Alot has to do with the pink computer behind the wheel if the truth be known. I have pictures of 110's bogged in the Gulf, so what! See my point. As one who has driven a Hummer off road I take my hat off to the designers, it does a job, NOT ALL JOBS. Every vehcile has its limitations and this is why the Rangers bought the lighter 110's. Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:57:48 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:57:48 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover parts policies I have been doing some work on the availability or non in some cases of parts. I have been trying to order the land Rover Experience, which was advertised in LRO and has a genuine part number to it. My local, and I beleive in supporting local bussiness, dealer parts man put the number through the computer and it did not register. I brought the advert in and he went to town trying to get it for me. Without naming names he got the true apathetic answers to his enquiries throught the parts chain. This was the laxadazical attitude that has long tarnished the LR name. Fed up I called Land Rover Parts in the UK direct myself and spoke to the head honcho on parts and got the full scoop. When LR was planning its come back into the NA market they readilly recognised the series owners as a market for parts, but they did not want to have their new vehcile dealers having to look after all of this market. They instead decided to establish approved dealers such as Rovers North in Vermont to deal with this market, because these types of dealers would offer the series owner the full orig spec parts and the aftermarket stuff and that was going to service the markket best. The premise that you can walk into ANY Land Rover dealer ANYWHERE in the world and order a genuine Land Rover part holds true today. The problem that you will encounter is that the dealer may not recognise the part number on his system. There are microfiches available to all dealers that give all the parts numbers that exist. In these you will find a plethora of parts that are not listed in the computer. That is the case here in NA for example. IF the dummies who run the system above the dealer level dont put the effort into traking it down then your dealer will never be able to supply what you want, that is what happened to me. So once again, ANY GENUINE LR PART IS AVAILABLE ANYWHERE, you just might not like the price. Sure the likes of Craddock in the UK might be able to get you a better price, I'm not disputing that. Some people for instance were asking recently about hood mounts for their spare tyres on 90's. When the Defender 90 was approved in the US the mount was put on the rear and that is how it is legally sold, same with the roll cage. What you do afterwards is your bussiness. There is no kit as such for the hood mount but all the parts are available individually through your local dealer 'cos guess what THEY ARE GENUINE LR PARTS. I have invested in the fiches for North American stock and non NAS type 90's and 110's which are available for about 10 bucks a pop up here, when I get a viewer I'll let you have the parts numbers. To sum up, push your dealer to get LRNA or LRC to do their job if you want the part. Have we put that one to bed now? Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 22:15:24 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 22:15:24 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: ex military trailers For any one who has bought the Ex Canadian forces M100 series trailers I have parts manulas for them that give cross references for the various part numbers with varous civvy manufactures such as Chrysler etc email for more info Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Keerock2@aol.com Thu Feb 9 22:47:19 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 22:47:19 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: D90 Advert Hi all, In the ongoing collection of LR media, a week or so ago someone mentioned an ad (cited as source unknown) featuring a D90 in the jungle with the subtitle "What to drive in places where you're the food .... While it's not exactly the least expensive 4x4, the Defender offers you that invaluable old English option. To be or not to be." I came across that ad quite by accident yesterday in the inside back cover of this month's (February) Esquire Magazine. A very sharp ad, really, featuring a fully-loaded yellow hardtop, slightly muddied for effect. First, though, you'll have to skip through the huge, glossy, overly-slick eight page Jeep centerfold advertising packet in the middle of the magazine (yuk). Shouldn't be a problem. And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? My Orvis fly fishing gear has the same thing. -Dean Silliman -Lake Arrowhead, CA, USA From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Thu Feb 9 20:14:58 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 20:14:58 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: *Bah, Humvee!* You know how all of the tall tales begin, right? *This is no bullsh*t*. But, this really is no bullsh*t. There lives a desert tan truck cab civilian humvee in my quaint little town of Scituate, Mass. It lives in a circular driveway in front of a house with a garage bigger than my house. I drive by it regularly in my 110 or the dealer 90. The other day, the humvee was parked tail towards the road. What do you suppose was stencilled and painted in black lettering on the tailgate? *IT'S A LEMON!* Yes, `tis true. I must get a photograph of this for the Rover Reference. But I'd better drive up to the house in my wife's Dodge. It wouldn't be sporting of me to do it in the Rover, no? I talked with another owner in my town (there are, gasp, about four of them in Scituate) and he spun an almost unbelievable story of woe concerning service problems with the vehicle and a quality control horror story that would make the worst Lucas stories pale into insignificance! Now, this is no bullshit... Cheerz Jim Roverheadus bahumveeum peesojunkoid -------- From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 10 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 10 Feb 95 08:25:34 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Lamborghini LM002 I never knew much about the Lamborghini LM002, but that was the name. They were about $125K, had a 12 Cylinder and very large, military-like Balloon tires. Only 4 wheels, though, not 6. Not many were imported. I have never actually seen one outside the ads in the back of the Robb Report. Demographics were probably people who had never heard of Land Rovers.... Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 10 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 10 Feb 95 08:35:20 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: braking system > (...snip ...snip...) The dual line master cylinders in the pile are > al for servo assistance, could I try to fit one of those in-place of the > single line versions, after relocating the bolt holes? Do I need ... Oh no, you can't do that... don't even think of it. They have totally different specs. If you use them, you must go all the way and fit the vacuum pot, not forgetting to connect the vacuum hose to the carb or intake manifold. From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 10 09:44:42 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:44:42 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Where's LRO? Where is this months's LRO magazine? Has anyone on this side of the pond received it yet? One chap with offices in the both the UK and Atlanta (and an overnight courier pouch between them) sent me a FAX of Jim Allen's article on the Mid-Atlantic Rally, but the transmission ended up looking like Sumerian clay tablet writing - elongated, illegible text with barely discernable photos: just enough to really pique my interest...not enough to read. There for a while, when the threat of competition from LRW seemed imminent, LRO was doing okay...but now they seem to be lapsing back into their old selves. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From AshtonLand@aol.com (by way of hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)) Fri Feb 10 09:05:11 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:05:11 -0600 From: AshtonLand@aol.com (by way of hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)) Subject: Land Rover Defender 110's, etc. I saw this on the LRO list - Greg I'm wondering if anybody has any knowledge on obtaining Land Rover Defender 110's, 130's or High Capacity Pick-ups and importing them to the United States for personal use. I have contacted Land Rover North America and get the pat answer "We don't import those models and have no plans to do so." However, their director of marketing for the Western U.S. tells me that Swiss specified Land Rovers meet or exceed U.S. requirements. When I contacted the Land Rover representative in Switzerland, I was referred to Land Rover North America. What a surprise. I have also talked with the product manager for Defenders at Land Rover in Solihull. He informed me that, for liability reasons, he could offer no assistance. I don't think it can be this difficult to do - after all, the original Land Rovers brought to the U.S. this last time around for DOT tests, etc., were Swiss spec'd. I'd appreciate any help that can be offered. Sincerely, Stephen Loosli AshtonLand@aol.com From "Mugele, Gerry" Fri Feb 10 09:06:00 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 09:06:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Why a L-R? "George S. Reiswig" asks for advice: >>So, all you D90 owners...why should I plop down such an >>exhorbitant amount of money for the D90? [none] Thanks again in advance. Sorry George...but L-Rs are more of an affliction than a rational choice. You lay out the money cause you find you just can't live without one. It happened to me >25 years ago and clearly this debilitation has effected my economic status and personal sense of well-being. Over the years I've dumped alot(!) of $ into the various beasts I've owned, keeping them well. And I've never felt as secure in the middle of nowhere as I do in my 88". As Dick O'Kane, a writer, said a few decades ago: "When you're in a Land Rover you sort of get the feeling that if they dropped the big one; it would only blister the paint a little." So I guess I'm saying...if you need a logical justification to get one, then you just don't want one enough. I too have had a relationship with an Isuzu, it was an '86 Trooper. Fine vehicle, reliable, quiet, fairly tough, practical, clean lines, comfortable. And it would go 95% of the places I might go (off-road) in the Land Rover...but NO charisma, charm or personality. And when it went away it was not a loss. Similarly, wife has a 92 Mitsubishi Montero...leather seats, V6, ABS, sunroof, air-locking rear diff, traction control, etc. and it's a really nice car to drive the 1K miles to Moab....but once I'm there I want my L-R. All my L-Rs have been totally stock (this is not a slam to any conversions here) cause I never found a need to change anything. And, here's the big one for me: in about a half million miles of LandRoving (in Iceland, Moab, Canada and just about everywhere else west of the Rockies)....I've NEVER had to walk home! Good luck with your choice. Gerry 72 88 From Spenny@aol.com Fri Feb 10 12:19:44 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:19:44 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: electrical woes Mike writes- snip they are all secure to the chassis, your problem WILL go away. Don't give up yet! Or just go buy a D90 and the problem will also go away. snip the problem won't go away with a D90, you are just putting it off for about 20 years ;-) Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 10 09:46:19 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:46:19 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land Rover Defender 110's, etc. Stephen, I found your posting on the British Cars list. As a future reference, I'd suggest that Land-Rover questions my be more productively asked of the LRO (Land-Rover-Owner) list (lro@team.net). If you are interested in joining the list, I'll send you info on how to do so. Regarding importing a Defender 110 or 130: If, as you are informed, the Swiss-spec vehicles are really comparable to U.S.-spec, then it might not be too bad but that's relative. A friend of mine imported a 1990 Turbodiesel 110 which was full Camel Trophy spec. And he had a lot of grief and expense to do so. It can be done but can cost maybe $5,000 on top of the purchase price, shipping, and duty. And take maybe two or three years to put it all together. The only way I know of to pull it off is to work with a specialist firm which handles this sort of transaction. When the vehicle comes to the U.S. port, it will be placed in impound, then can be gotten out by the specialist in U.S. certification. He takes it to his shop and does whatever he does, including dealing with the various federal and state authorities. My friend (Domingos Dias by name) lives in California and of course that is a worst-case scenario. Some states are much easier. But you still gotta satisfy the feds. It seems that the slightest deviation from U.S. specs (in the case of a Defender 110, from the specs of the actual model imported to the U.S.) can cause major hassles. When I last spoke to Domingos (last July) he had had the 110 in his possession awhile but was still not "out of the woods" with the feds. If you wish to talk with Domingos, I will give you his phone number. This is about the sum total of what I know on the subject. I would be very interested to be kept abreast of what you learn, as you go along. If you really do go through with this process, it would be of considerable interest for you to post messages regularly on the LRO list. Any number of folks on the list want to know all there is to know about this. >I'm wondering if anybody has any knowledge on obtaining Land Rover Defender >110's, 130's or High Capacity Pick-ups and importing them to the United [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >Stephen Loosli >AshtonLand@aol.com Hope this helps! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 10 09:47:24 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:47:24 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Rambo Lambo Paul, The Lamborgini you describe is much akin to the Hummer and was originally built to the U.S. spec, in cooperation with (I think) Curtis-Wright, to compete for the contract that eventually went to AM General. As such, it was originally called the Cheetah (I even have a Tomy diecast model of a Lamborgini Cheetah, in Zebra-stripe dress). The "production" version, as sold in the U.S., was known as LM002, commonly pronounced "le moo two." It is also known as the "Rambo Lambo" and does indeed have the Lamborgini V-12 engine. As spec'd for the military trials, thought, as I recall, it was equipped with a Chrysler V-8 (been a long time, so I don't remember for sure). The LM002 weighs a good 6,000 and change, similar to the Hummer. I doubt that its suspension is up to the Hummer's standards (Hummers have portal axles--the only ones I know of on a fully articulated, a-arm-type, independent suspension). I don't thinks very many LM002s were sold in the U.S. because it was a bit of a beast in comparison with the Range Rover and cost more than twice as much. > Roverphiles, > Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > || to host a habachi bar-be-que party is > || around a Land Rover's bonnet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From William Dan Terry Fri Feb 10 14:13:03 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 14:13:03 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: carb probs? I recently got my first LR, a '65 IIA 109SW with a camper top. Unfortunately, it was not represented well by the seller, who was really into LR (had 3 there and regularly brings them into the States). Half the things which were in "fine" shape had to be replaced. Desperate for one and not knowing enough made me a sucker buyer. I've spent almost again what I paid for it just getting it up for inspection; new everything brakes, new seals on all axels, new front ball axel-steering joints (whatever they're called), cracked head after a month of very little driving. This was meant to be my daily driver, which the seller well knew. No calls returned even on the first message asking what weight oil it takes since it was low. I'm planning on living with it for now, and maybe some attention, although without sinking much money into it, might work it out. I am having a strange problem since I got it back after the head job. The engine in normal use balks as if it has water in the fuel or such, but when I pull the choke out halfway it works fine. Does anyone have any sage advice, or even educated guess, which I may be able to try to fix it? I've never spent much time with carbs, and besides theory, don't really know the specific details of their workings. I do have the Hanes book. TIA Peace, Bill '65 IIA 109SW "Antichrist" after "The Gods Must Be Crazy" and all the trouble we've had. _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From William Dan Terry Fri Feb 10 13:58:25 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 13:58:25 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: lambo I don't remember specifics, but there were a couple of versions of Lambo four-wheelers. The first was the Cheetah. Very "exotic" in that it had a mid-engined configuration. It had one small problem that the designers overlooked. It had problems with front tire grip going up serious hills, even threatening to roll over backwards. It never hurts to determine the real requirements before designing something. The LMA was the next invocation. Some 7-liter V12, 500+bhp, 125mph top, 60+mph over rough terrain, special tires with treads that went halfway up the sides for sand and such. Sales in the Mid-East. I don't particularly like Lambos, much preferring Lotuses for sports-cars (my favorite by far) and LR for off-road (again my favorite by far), but I did like the looks of this thing. It looked like it was meant to go. Supposedly pretty decent, though reviews I read were in MotorTrend and such, not off-road zines. The last version I recall was, as mentioned earlier, the LM02. To import this, it had a Chrysler engine (Lambo was owned by Chrysler at the time). Seen a couple a while ago, but not for a long time. Peace, Bill _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 10 14:54:17 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:54:17 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Rambo-Lambo WRT the thread on the Lambourghinis...it was the LM002, aka the "Rambo Lambo". These things came equipped with 20" tires which cost something like $600 a pop, but then if you can afford $100K+ for a vehicle, $600 for a flat is chump change. Drove next to one in my Rover one time...the folks inside, instead of acting snobby and such, actually seemed to appreciate the look of the Rover...though they didn't go so far as to wave. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From C Taylor Sutherland III Fri Feb 10 15:28:54 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:28:54 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Lambo SUV I saw that thing on something like beyond 2000 or some such. It looked like a cross between a Hummer, a Nissan Pathfinder, a De'Lorien and my butt. Had the raised differential like the Hummer, the shape of the Pathfinder, and the brushed aluminum finish of the D'Lorien. Pretty wild looking...and pretty wild price. From Kumaravel Natarajan Fri Feb 10 14:36:37 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:36:37 -0600 (CST) From: Kumaravel Natarajan Subject: Re: Hummers and More Ostentation >Subject: Re: Hummers and More Ostentation >Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:50:24 +0000 (GMT) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >none >Wasn't it something like LM02 or am I getting confused You are almost correct. It had one more "0". It was the LM002. >V12 yes, 4 wheels And a governor limited top-speed of 120 MPH for getting across those sand dunes a little faster than your neighbor's camel. >> Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of >> well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that >> revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on >> shopping mall speed bumps. The first one I saw in the skin was when I was in college, in (you guessed it) a shopping mall in a suburb of Cleveland, OH. The next time I saw one was in a Lamborghini dealership in a rather well-to-do suburb nearby (Barrington, IL). But the dealership either went out of business, or got smart and changed their product, because now it has been replaced by a LAND ROVER dealership. From sohearn@InterServ.Com Fri Feb 10 13:41:36 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 13:41:36 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: *Bah, Humvee!* Jim writes about Hummer woes. I've heard that the transmissions are the weak link but this was second-hand. I'd be interested in the problems mentioned by those Hummer owners as a guy at work is intent on buying one. I can definitely understand service being a problem: no trained mechanics and an 800 number is no substitute. Might be a good business opportunity for some former U.S. Army mechanics. - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Fri Feb 10 16:29:19 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 16:29:19 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Starter switch (solenoid) All, I think I have a problem with my starter switch. Here's why. I have attached alternator and battery lead to battery input side of the switch. Attached output to starter. Connected ignition switch. Turn it and nothing. I have power to the input. I can place a screwdriver over the terminals and the starter fires !!! Any agree that the solenoid is broken ???? Or is it more dreaded LUCAS problems again ???? Or have I wired this sucker up wrong !!!!!! By the way, I'm still searching for my bad earth in my lights. Now as soon as I turn on the ignition, all the lights come on ! I'll get there in the end. Mark From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 10 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 10 Feb 95 20:18:56 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest friday Richard When trying to free up your track rod ends, DO NOT HEAT the tube. lack of care in this operation can result in a change in the metals structure and subsequent failure. Slide the clamp clip well away from the end of the tube, place the tube end flat on a solid surface so that the rod overhangs the end, then align the slots in the tube with the horizontal centre line and using a bras or copper mallet strike the tube end, this will have the effect of moving the thread faces slightly, turn the tube and bash it all the way round, this shock treatment will loosen up the threads, the tube must be laid flat on something solid, i.e the vice extension if it is on a good bench, a blacksmiths anvil is perfect. I have a 12" piece of girder that I keep for such things. A modification of this shock technique also works in removing the rod end from the steering arm, if you take two similar size hammers and simultaneously strike both sides of the steering arm end where the rod fits,several times the end will just 'pop' out ( if you remove the nut first ) I have used this technique on the ocean floor when trying to salvage parts from a wreck that laid on the bottom for years The ser 3 brake and servo assembly will bolt directly to a ser 2 but it is necessary to cut out a part of the wing top, this is covereb by the hood. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Roger Sinasohn Fri Feb 10 17:22:04 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:22:04 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: 88" Series III > Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) Up to you, really. My '59 109" has three power outlets in the "glovebox" at the front that I use for any three of: CB Radio, CelPhone, Spotlight, portable video game (yes, I'm a computer nerd), radio, laptop computer (boy, am I a computer nerd or *what*?), etc. There's three more just behind the driver's seat (on top of the cabinets, if they're in) for more stuff. > Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) My '72 88" has a radio sorta just sitting there. I want to build an overhead box-thingie in my 109" for a radio, celphone, CB, GPS, etc. I've seen some really nice ones done. Brad Blevins has a really cool setup (I'm gonna do an article in an upcoming Aluminum Workhorse on his.) > How expensive is it (average) to have a V8 put in an 88" or does it > just not fit or is the general opinion "who would want it now" > hold? Dunno about cost, but Scotty's son Andrew has a sIII 88" with a V8 in it. Rumour is that he's gotten it up to 100mph up in the Black Rock desert. > How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself > in our '82 Toy LC. Depends on the vehicle. Some are really noisy, and some are quite reasonable. Tires, Overdrive, and engine all make a difference. When I switched from macho-big-lug-I'm-a-man tires to radial dual-purpose tires, the difference was very noticeable. If I cruise at 55 or so in 4th-OD, it's quite quiet. Unfortunately, I have a lead foot and have trouble going that slow, except maybe in school zones. 8^O At 70-75 in 4th-OD, you have to talk loud (or turn the radio up) but it's not unbearable. My engine (petrol) is pretty quiet, though. > drive it 160 miles home, then I should expect to change the water > heater and some belts and hoses and all the fluids twice just so I Well... This depends on two things: The vehicle and the Previous Owner (PO). Yes, you can find a vehicle in top notch condition that you don't have to do anything to except fill it with gas and check the oil. But, most PO's are nitwits (even if they're your best friend), and they've done something really silly. The very nature of the Land Rover means that people tend to tinker with them, and then there's a good chance that something's gonna be fouled up. If you buy a vehicle that has just finished being restored, or one that is a daily driver, no, you probably won't need to do major repairs on the way home. But, I think that someone who is selling a vehicle may say to themselves, "I'm selling it, I'm not gonna bother replacing that flaky wire to the backup light" or whatever. So there may be somethings that the PO has let go for a while, knowing that they're just gonna sell it anyway. But, remember, if you keep a cool head and know a little something about working on cars, a Land Rover will *always* get you home. I've had my troubles, but every time, I either was able to get home, or I should have, had I stayed calm and thought about it. When I bought my first Land Rover, I could change a tire. Period. Since then, I've learned a fair bit, but most of what folks talk about here still goes right over my head. Even so, I feel quite confident about taking my Land Rover just about anywhere. I may have to call Scotty to ask what the problem is, or how to fix (or get around) it, but I know I can get home. > Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? Will I be forced to > fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer or will I be able to > reach 55? Depends on the motor, OD or no, etc. My 109" has gotten up to 85mph, but I don't really feel comfortable over 70-75 (3000-3500 rpm, 4-OD). But, going up hills, I have trouble, sometimes having to shift to 3rd, no OD, and yes, once, I was passed by a VW microbus... But, it will get you up the hills. I have the original 4cyl 2.25l engine, btw. > if not a learning experience. ...I really need to learn more about > fixing cars.... Sheesh! Remember also, you're not just buying a car, you're buying a way of life. You instantly have a huge network of friends to rely on. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger When you own a Land Rover, sinasohn@crl.com You have friends you've never met. Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From David John Place Fri Feb 10 20:41:28 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 20:41:28 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest This might be a repeat since I am not sure which address you reply to on the digest but---for those asking about using a dual master with the Land Rover servo, go ahead. I use this setup and I use an Ambassador by American Motors master. It bolts right up to the servo and the only problem seems to be that the little nylon insert which attaches the hose to the servo hits the edge of the top cover of the master. This isn't a big problem however and I simply use a screwdriver to force the bail over the top when I want to close it. No problem with the brake action has been noticed. I have done this to a number of my Rovers and it works just fine not to mention the very loFrom LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:41:56 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: cont. For Sale Another one bites the dust.... .....snip...... > else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my > Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope .....snip...... > you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier > marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law > against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most Gee, Ben.. I don't think that there is any law that says you can't marry a Land Rover.. They certainly are a lot less trouble than women!! :-) She isn't receptive to your Land Rover affliction, eh? Better think twice about this, Ben.. Keep the one your selling and give it to her!! Convert her over! This Land Rover affliction is life-long, she better get used to it. Seriously though.. good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: 88" Series III Taylor asks... > Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? Will you be be peeling your eyeballs off the windscreen? NO, but you will stop, if everything is in working order. But there is the usual drum brake stuff... They don't work as well wet (like after crossing a stream) as they do dry.. you get used to it... > Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you > do it without ripping your knuckles off? If you have freewheeling hubs (They were not standard equipment) you will have to lock the hubs manually. Rip your knuckles off? I use my fingers to lock my hubs... > Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) > Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) You can hang anything you want on the electrical system... within the limits of what Joe Lucas will supply without burning out. Keep in mind the older Rovers could be positive earth (ground) so regular radio connections don't work. You *can* work around it... > How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself > in our '82 Toy LC. What?? Speak up... > From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the > person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" > condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Keep in mind that you'll be buying a vehicle that is over 20 years old. If it was maintained properly, you should be able to drive it home with no problems.. If it sat around idle for a year or two before you bought it, expect the unexpected! As the Canadians say, Shit Happens.. "Perfect Condition"??? What's that?? Oh yeah, they built Land Rovers and MG's using some of the same parts... > Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? Will I be forced to > fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer or will I be able to > reach 55? Do you mean on or off road?? This is *NOT* a highway cruiser. 55 is fine, 60 is probably OK. Past that and it's anyone's guess. Again, it depends on how the vehicle was maintained. > I still am highly interested in getting one so I can have the guy with > the Jeep Renegade drool at it as I pass, but I want to know what I'm He may drool if your passing him while he's stuck... Of course, he may just drool... duhhhhhh... So.. Do you want a Rover for the image or do you want it as a vehicle that will stay with you for a while? Think hard, there's gonna be a quiz later... > getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to > spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, Gee.. I hate to be the one to tell you, but part of owning a Land Rover is learning how to fix it... You learn how to do it right, and you don't spend *all* your time under the hood... :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Landrover Series III Hi Guy... > I am looking to get in contact with other Landrover owners. I am a > recent new owner of a 1973 Series III that I completely rebuilt. Well.. keep on the LRO list here any you'll see more than a few events. Are you at Clarkson? Pottsdam/Canton area? Contact Dixon Kenner (who is also on this list) about joining the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR). You're not all that far away and they are some serious Land Rover people. Serious beer drinkers, too.. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Spenny@aol.com Sat Feb 11 08:33:12 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 08:33:12 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires Stephan writes about the 109 HCPU snip... exist a S.III 109 HCPU cab truck 1 Ton, very rare specimen, probably never made an appearance Stateside. It had rims snip... i've seen one in the us, at Rovers North, I think it belonged to mark. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 11 14:36:15 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 14:36:15 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? > My Orvis fly fishing gear has the same thing. It's a prestige thing, if the royal family uses your product you want people to know about it - going for the "if it's good enough for the Queen, it just might be good enough for me" factor. TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Sat Feb 11 09:30:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 09:30:40 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: Dream Sales job? Howdy, For everyone out in internetland, here's a chance to sell your favorite car: from the saturday sacramento (california) bee, sales associate Hubacher Cadillac/Land Rover wants to hire two people with automotive sales backgrounds, apply in person, ask for tony, brad or brian. The dealer sells Cadillacs, Range Rovers and Land Rovers. I met one of the sales men (owns a D90 and is interested in the older series vehicles) at a breakfast of the local sacramento area LROA members. Seems like in Sacramento, sales are good. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From CTPJ@aol.com Sat Feb 11 12:30:41 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:30:41 -0500 From: CTPJ@aol.com Subject: subscribe subscribe From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sat Feb 11 18:31:17 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:31:17 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >>And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >>the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? It is kinda like if you do business in Georgia, if you've got Coca-Cola as a customer, then you're ok, though I can't recall seeing 'by appointment to Coca-Cola' :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 13:55:31 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 13:55:31 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Subscribe Subscribe Land-Rover-Owner Stephen G. Loosli From JHowat@aol.com Sat Feb 11 16:08:39 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 16:08:39 -0500 From: JHowat@aol.com Subject: subscription opps Sorry the complete address on the subscription request is jhowat@aol.com Opps TeriAnn From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 11 16:13:25 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 16:13:25 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: 6-Cyl vs. V8 I'm trying to psych myself up to purchace an 88" Series III. I live on the edge of the Blue Ridge in northern S.C. and western N.C. and therefore, I do a lot of driving in mountainous terrain. I believe that I will need more power than just the 2.25 l 4-cyl or else I will never be able to get over the mountains. But I've heard that there have been problems with the in-line 6. Am I right? I have missed most of the discussions about them. If anybody has any major points to make known, that would be appreciated. Also, I've heard that people have successfully put the V8 in their SWB vehicles. What's the success rate, and is it worth the trouble? I wouldn't mind having a V8 but if it is most likely going to give me problems in the future, then I don't think it would be prudent. BTW, I'm goin to be getting the thing if at all from a group that builds them or rather rebuilds them to your specs, so the talk of watching where I buy it from can be forgone. (such so people will get to the point is all. :) ) Thanks.. Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 21:32:38 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 21:32:38 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rover Dfndr 110's Hello Land Rover lovers! I have just learned of you through British-Cars, and am thrilled to discover this resource. On with my question. I have been a faithful Toyota Landcruiser fanatic for years (I own two of them). However, one look at the Defender 90, 110 and Discovery models now available in the U.S. has converted me from this folly. I am interested in learning how I might obtain a Defender 110 County and import it to the U.S. (only 500 were made available here, and they are priced as a rare commodity). As I researched this, I began by calling Land Rover North America. The answer was a pretty flat "We have no plans to import that model in the future." Undaunted, I was able to contact the Western U.S. distribution manager for Land Rover. He informed me that the test vehicles brought in to the U.S. DOT were swiss specified, and that he believed they were compatible with U.S. regulations. I then contacted Land Rover in Solihull and visited with the Defender Product manager. He was unwilling to provide any information or speculation beyond mailing me a list of world-wide Land Rover dealers, including the Swiss agent. He was concerned about the liability of appearing to aid in the import of a vehicle to the U.S. looking too much like cooperation. I faxed a request to the Swiss agent and waited. No reply was forthcoming until a couple of weeks later. A letter arrives from Land Rover North America - "We received this request from our agent in Switzerland. We have no plans to import that model to the U.S." What a surprise. I have reviewed the DOT rules and have visited with the San Francisco Port Manager for U.S. Customs. If the vehicle arrives already titled in my name, the U.S. Customs procedures are pretty easy to deal with; import duty, inspection, etc. The cost would'nt be the $5000.00 most people readily quote, but more likely $1500.00. Remember, this is only IF the vehicle is already titled in my name and is considered an "informal" importation. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Any suggestions on how to get around the Land Rover bottleneck? I don't want to deceive the Swiss ageFrom maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sat Feb 11 22:15:53 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 22:15:53 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Taylor's 88 Questions Taylor asked: none Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? none Like a truck. I drive mine with a bit more respect than my commuter car. And I avoid heavy stop & go traffic. Not fun. none Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you do it without ripping your knuckles off? none Yes. You may have to get your feet dirty if you haven't thought ahead. But it's better than some of the shift on the fly systems, where you have to be on the fly to shift (older Cherokees come to mind, if you get stuck in 2wd, you're stuck- 4wd cannot be engaged on some at a standstill w/o lots of nasty grinding noises). There are a variety of hubs on the market, and some are easier than others. none Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) Are there problems with the 6 cylinders that no one has talked about? How expensive is it (average) to have a V8 put in an 88" or does it just not fit or is the general opinion "who would want it now" hold? How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself in our '82 Toy LC. none Many have tackled all of the above, but if accessories, power, and noise levels are important to you, I think you're probably better off sticking with your Blazer (they are considerably noisier than a Blazer). >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the none person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that was this. The FAQ tended to give the impression that if I were to drive it 160 miles home, then I should expect to change the water heater and some belts and hoses and all the fluids twice just so I could get home. Now is this a LR or a MG?! >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the I'm not quite clear on what you mean here. But from my own experience, it took 2 months of nights & weekends to get my 88 on the road after I got it home and 3 months for my 109 (to a point where they were safe, reliable, and that no fluids poured out as fast as they were poured in). I have to admit I I'm a bit on the slow & methodical side. >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the The person I talked to about buying one said that there was not that threat of something breaking looming over your shoulder like that, in fact nothing like that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Of course I would if I were to take cow paths for 160 miles but on interstate? With a 10 gal. tank, I might have to fill up once but I would not like to have to tighten the steering column and replace the ball joints for the steering at the same stop? What good is it to survive getting run over by a rhinocerous when you just have to replace all the belts when you start to run away? >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the Once I attended to all of the things that were wrong from the time I bought mine, they have been pretty reliable. Things that stopped me were: distributor earth wire snapped (109), original fuel pump failed(88), original water pump failed on one (88), and a brand new one failed on the other (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). If you buy a used one, expect there to be a bunch of things wrong with it from the start. Note all you can find, then multiply it by 3 or 4 to get an idea of how much work & $ you have ahead of you. The tank holds about 12 US gal. I get about 19 on the highway. Some folks get more, some less. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Eventually. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Will I be forced to fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Nope. But if you happen to be in front of one going up that mountain, expect him and all the other truckers behind you to say lots of bad things about you, on the CB as they have about Jim Allen, Sandy, & TerriAnn. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). or will I be able to reach 55? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Of course. But only if it's a short mountain. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). I want to know what I'm getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, if not a learning experience. ...I really need to learn more about fixing cars.... Sheesh! (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Taylor, I'm not sure a LR is what you want. Part of why I like mine is because they are a diversion that allows me to tinker and keep up my mechanical skills. I also like the simplicity of the vehicle - it's relatively easy to work on and there's not a whole lot to go wrong once you've set it right. Today I've got the time and enough money to keep them going. I didn't when I was in school. I couldn't imagine getting one as a full time student with no money (at least I had no money). You also have to devote a fair amount of time to it in the beginning, and simple as they are, you've got to learn a few things about fixing the vehicle. As much as I've always wanted one, in the beginning there were times when I got really frustrated and discouraged with the amount of things I had to tackle on mine, and most of what I did I learned as I went along. But I must admit, I'm glad I stuck with it. I've wanted a Rover ever since I was a little kid and it's really become a passion. I guess the best advice I can give you is to give it a lot of thought before you jump into anything. Look before you leap! Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From Russell Burns Sat Feb 11 20:37:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 20:37:20 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Rube Goldberg yakima ski rack Well I got the yakima rack on the truck. The trick was to weld gutters to the truck. Actually I welded the gutters to some 90 degree .25 " thick shelf brackets with an added twist. The shelf brackets were about 6" high, so I got enough clearance for the hardtop. I used some 1.75" muffler clamps, and bolted the shelf bracket with the attacked gutter to the external roll cage out side the front doors. I also had to weld a support bar, so the who thing looks like a triangle. I am not too sure how I am gong to get at the ski's, maybe I will have to weld up a ladder to get at them. Russ Burns It a warm -10 F for those of you that have some real cold.. From David John Place Sat Feb 11 23:34:58 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 23:34:58 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Insulation for Land Rover Does anyone know the correct name for the expanded rubbery styro-foam like material used as packing for electronic parts. I want a non hydroscopic expanded foam in the doors of my Rover, but don't know what to ask for. Dave VE4PN From S|ren Vels Christensen Sun Feb 12 06:52:25 1995 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 06:52:25 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: SIGN! (90kb) Most honourable listmembers. Many of you received a sample sign by e-mail just before christmas. A sign that can only be used for a limited period of time within the year. Granville Poole and i have made the final modifications to the original and wish to propose this for the official "club" sign. Please excuse me while i address the latest members to the list. Last autumn there was a discussion about converting this mailing list into something else than a mailing list. Some suggested that we made this a real club with numbers and all. Others suggested the list be replaced by a newsgroup. There even was a poll for a name for this newsgroupclublikething. Some of these names were the result of huge brainpower discharges. (I bet Maloney sat on the mountain shifting letter-bricks for days ;-) ). Well, to make a long entertaining story short; we ended up with a mailing list called "lro@team.net" (@stratus.com). Then Granville mentionend that he was working on a sign. And i can't keep my mouse shut. Due to an example of international cooperation and understanding, the sign is now ready to be evaluated. The image is prepared in the increasingly popular JPEG format, uuencode, and attached directly under this text to avoid some decoding problems experienced earlier. I can also provide .GIF or .CDR (scalable) if desired. In the image are some very Land-Rover specific symbolic. They can easily be spotted by anyone with 90wt in the veins. 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M(3T28O>5X'H?ANW^S:#:*0H+)O.WOGG\\$5P.O\`_(=O?^NS?SKU%0%4*H`` M&`!VKR[7_P#D.WO_`%V;^=>=ELN>M.7?_,VKJT4CN_"O_(NV?T;_`-"-<]X] MG+7]K;X&$B+@^NXX_P#9:WO",JR>'K<*>4+*WUR3_6N5\:3-)K[HP&(HU1<> MF,_S)J<+&^-EY7'4?[I&QFrom "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:32 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Leslie's in Seattle next week, then NYC I'm making a trip out to Seattle next week and the following week I'm in Staten Island/NYC. If any of you want to get together and talk Rovers (or anything else for that matter) email or ring me and leave a message! Cheers Leslie Stutsman U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 "2 Land Rovers in Florida Others available - leave daytime tel #" From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:48 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: William Dan Terry's troubles Willam- Sorry to hear of all your problems. It is a shame that your first experience with a land rover has started off on such a bad foot (who as the fella anyhow) It will get better. ( I guess it only can, actually) About the choke. Only ever pull it out about 1/4 of the way. People have a tendancy to yank the thing all the way out right from the beginning, and it takes the engine a lot longer time to recover and come into synchro with the rest of the world. It WILL need choke though to warm up and what you are experiencing is not uncommon. Try it with just a 1/4 -1/3 out for a while, and see if it runs any better after. If it doesn't, then come back and discuss how it did react. Or email me your tel# and we can walk it through. cheers Leslie U.K. Land Rover Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:41:56 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: cont. For Sale Another one bites the dust.... .....snip...... > else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my > Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope .....snip...... > you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier > marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law > against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most Gee, Ben.. I don't think that there is any law that says you can't marry a Land Rover.. They certainly are a lot less trouble than women!! :-) She isn't receptive to your Land Rover affliction, eh? Better think twice about this, Ben.. Keep the one your selling and give it to her!! Convert her over! This Land Rover affliction is life-long, she better get used to it. Seriously though.. good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: 88" Series III Taylor asks... > Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? Will you be be peeling your eyeballs off the windscreen? NO, but you will stop, if everything is in working order. But there is the usual drum brake stuff... They don't work as well wet (like after crossing a stream) as they do dry.. you get used to it... > Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you > do it without ripping your knuckles off? If you have freewheeling hubs (They were not standard equipment) you will have to lock the hubs manually. Rip your knuckles off? I use my fingers to lock my hubs... > Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) > Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) You can hang anything you want on the electrical system... within the limits of what Joe Lucas will supply without burning out. Keep in mind the older Rovers could be positive earth (ground) so regular radio connections don't work. You *can* work around it... > How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself > in our '82 Toy LC. What?? Speak up... > From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the > person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" > condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Keep in mind that you'll be buying a vehicle that is over 20 years old. If it was maintained properly, you should be able to drive it home with no problems.. If it sat around idle for a year or two before you bought it, expect the unexpected! As the Canadians say, Shit Happens.. "Perfect Condition"??? What's that?? Oh yeah, they built Land Rovers and MG's using some of the same parts... > Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? Will I be forced to > fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer or will I be able to > reach 55? Do you mean on or off road?? This is *NOT* a highway cruiser. 55 is fine, 60 is probably OK. Past that and it's anyone's guess. Again, it depends on how the vehicle was maintained. > I still am highly interested in getting one so I can have the guy with > the Jeep Renegade drool at it as I pass, but I want to know what I'm He may drool if your passing him while he's stuck... Of course, he may just drool... duhhhhhh... So.. Do you want a Rover for the image or do you want it as a vehicle that will stay with you for a while? Think hard, there's gonna be a quiz later... > getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to > spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, Gee.. I hate to be the one to tell you, but part of owning a Land Rover is learning how to fix it... You learn how to do it right, and you don't spend *all* your time under the hood... :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Landrover Series III Hi Guy... > I am looking to get in contact with other Landrover owners. I am a > recent new owner of a 1973 Series III that I completely rebuilt. Well.. keep on the LRO list here any you'll see more than a few events. Are you at Clarkson? Pottsdam/Canton area? Contact Dixon Kenner (who is also on this list) about joining the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR). You're not all that far away and they are some serious Land Rover people. Serious beer drinkers, too.. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Spenny@aol.com Sat Feb 11 08:33:12 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 08:33:12 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires Stephan writes about the 109 HCPU snip... exist a S.III 109 HCPU cab truck 1 Ton, very rare specimen, probably never made an appearance Stateside. It had rims snip... i've seen one in the us, at Rovers North, I think it belonged to mark. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 11 14:36:15 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 14:36:15 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? > My Orvis fly fishing gear has the same thing. It's a prestige thing, if the royal family uses your product you want people to know about it - going for the "if it's good enough for the Queen, it just might be good enough for me" factor. TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Sat Feb 11 09:30:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 09:30:40 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: Dream Sales job? Howdy, For everyone out in internetland, here's a chance to sell your favorite car: from the saturday sacramento (california) bee, sales associate Hubacher Cadillac/Land Rover wants to hire two people with automotive sales backgrounds, apply in person, ask for tony, brad or brian. The dealer sells Cadillacs, Range Rovers and Land Rovers. I met one of the sales men (owns a D90 and is interested in the older series vehicles) at a breakfast of the local sacramento area LROA members. Seems like in Sacramento, sales are good. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From CTPJ@aol.com Sat Feb 11 12:30:41 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:30:41 -0500 From: CTPJ@aol.com Subject: subscribe subscribe From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sat Feb 11 18:31:17 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:31:17 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >>And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >>the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? It is kinda like if you do business in Georgia, if you've got Coca-Cola as a customer, then you're ok, though I can't recall seeing 'by appointment to Coca-Cola' :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 13:55:31 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 13:55:31 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Subscribe Subscribe Land-Rover-Owner Stephen G. Loosli From JHowat@aol.com Sat Feb 11 16:08:39 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 16:08:39 -0500 From: JHowat@aol.com Subject: subscription opps Sorry the complete address on the subscription request is jhowat@aol.com Opps TeriAnn From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 11 16:13:25 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 16:13:25 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: 6-Cyl vs. V8 I'm trying to psych myself up to purchace an 88" Series III. I live on the edge of the Blue Ridge in northern S.C. and western N.C. and therefore, I do a lot of driving in mountainous terrain. I believe that I will need more power than just the 2.25 l 4-cyl or else I will never be able to get over the mountains. But I've heard that there have been problems with the in-line 6. Am I right? I have missed most of the discussions about them. If anybody has any major points to make known, that would be appreciated. Also, I've heard that people have successfully put the V8 in their SWB vehicles. What's the success rate, and is it worth the trouble? I wouldn't mind having a V8 but if it is most likely going to give me problems in the future, then I don't think it would be prudent. BTW, I'm goin to be getting the thing if at all from a group that builds them or rather rebuilds them to your specs, so the talk of watching where I buy it from can be forgone. (such so people will get to the point is all. :) ) Thanks.. Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 21:32:38 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 21:32:38 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rover Dfndr 110's Hello Land Rover lovers! I have just learned of you through British-Cars, and am thrilled to discover this resource. On with my question. I have been a faithful Toyota Landcruiser fanatic for years (I own two of them). However, one look at the Defender 90, 110 and Discovery models now available in the U.S. has converted me from this folly. I am interested in learning how I might obtain a Defender 110 County and import it to the U.S. (only 500 were made available here, and they are priced as a rare commodity). As I researched this, I began by calling Land Rover North America. The answer was a pretty flat "We have no plans to import that model in the future." Undaunted, I was able to contact the Western U.S. distribution manager for Land Rover. He informed me that the test vehicles brought in to the U.S. DOT were swiss specified, and that he believed they were compatible with U.S. regulations. I then contacted Land Rover in Solihull and visited with the Defender Product manager. He was unwilling to provide any information or speculation beyond mailing me a list of world-wide Land Rover dealers, including the Swiss agent. He was concerned about the liability of appearing to aid in the import of a vehicle to the U.S. looking too much like cooperation. I faxed a request to the Swiss agent and waited. No reply was forthcoming until a couple of weeks later. A letter arrives from Land Rover North America - "We received this request from our agent in Switzerland. We have no plans to import that model to the U.S." What a surprise. I have reviewed the DOT rules and have visited with the San Francisco Port Manager for U.S. Customs. If the vehicle arrives already titled in my name, the U.S. Customs procedures are pretty easy to deal with; import duty, inspection, etc. The cost would'nt be the $5000.00 most people readily quote, but more likely $1500.00. Remember, this is only IF the vehicle is already titled in my name and is considered an "informal" importation. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Any suggestions on how to get around the Land Rover bottleneck? I don't want to deceive the Swiss agent, but I am of Swiss heritage and have access to relatives in Switzerland who can assist with an address, etc. I look forward to a reply, and am happy to cooperate with any list member in any way. I also make an open invitation to any member who would like to come and try their hand at the Rubicon Trail or Sierra Trek, located high in the Sierra Nevadas near Lake Tahoe. I live in Reno, minutes from Lake Tahoe, and would be happy to volunteer as trail guide or host. For now, you'll have to forgive the 1971 Toyota Landcruiser in the driveway! Sincerely, Stephen Loosli AshtonLand@aol.com From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sat Feb 11 22:15:53 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 22:15:53 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Taylor's 88 Questions Taylor asked: none Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? none Like a truck. I drive mine with a bit more respect than my commuter car. And I avoid heavy stop & go traffic. Not fun. none Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you do it without ripping your knuckles off? none Yes. You may have to get your feet dirty if you haven't thought ahead. But it's better than some of the shift on the fly systems, where you have to be on the fly to shift (older Cherokees come to mind, if you get stuck in 2wd, you're stuck- 4wd cannot be engaged on some at a standstill w/o lots of nasty grinding noises). There are a variety of hubs on the market, and some are easier than others. none Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) Are there problems with the 6 cylinders that no one has talked about? How expensive is it (average) to have a V8 put in an 88" or does it just not fit or is the general opinion "who would want it now" hold? How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself in our '82 Toy LC. none Many have tackled all of the above, but if accessories, power, and noise levels are important to you, I think you're probably better off sticking with your Blazer (they are considerably noisier than a Blazer). >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the none person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that was this. The FAQ tended to give the impression that if I were to drive it 160 miles home, then I should expect to change the water heater and some belts and hoses and all the fluids twice just so I could get home. Now is this a LR or a MG?! >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the I'm not quite clear on what you mean here. But from my own experience, it took 2 months of nights & weekends to get my 88 on the road after I got it home and 3 months for my 109 (to a point where they were safe, reliable, and that no fluids poured out as fast as they were poured in). I have to admit I I'm a bit on the slow & methodical side. >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the The person I talked to about buying one said that there was not that threat of something breaking looming over your shoulder like that, in fact nothing like that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Of course I would if I were to take cow paths for 160 miles but on interstate? With a 10 gal. tank, I might have to fill up once but I would not like to have to tighten the steering column and replace the ball joints for the steering at the same stop? What good is it to survive getting run over by a rhinocerous when you just have to replace all the belts when you start to run away? >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the Once I attended to all of the things that were wrong from the time I bought mine, they have been pretty reliable. Things that stopped me were: distributor earth wire snapped (109), original fuel pump failed(88), original water pump failed on one (88), and a brand new one failed on the other (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). If you buy a used one, expect there to be a bunch of things wrong with it from the start. Note all you can find, then multiply it by 3 or 4 to get an idea of how much work & $ you have ahead of you. The tank holds about 12 US gal. I get about 19 on the highway. Some folks get more, some less. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Eventually. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Will I be forced to fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Nope. But if you happen to be in front of one going up that mountain, expect him and all the other truckers behind you to say lots of bad things about you, on the CB as they have about Jim Allen, Sandy, & TerriAnn. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). or will I be able to reach 55? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Of course. But only if it's a short mountain. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). I want to know what I'm getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, if not a learning experience. ...I really need to learn more about fixing cars.... Sheesh! (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Taylor, I'm not sure a LR is what you want. Part of why I like mine is because they are a diversion that allows me to tinker and keep up my mechanical skills. I also like the simplicity of the vehicle - it's relatively easy to work on and there's not a whole lot to go wrong once you've set it right. Today I've got the time and enough money to keep them going. I didn't when I was in school. I couldn't imagine getting one as a full time student with no money (at least I had no money). You also have to devote a fair amount of time to it in the beginning, and simple as they are, you've got to learn a few things about fixing the vehicle. As much as I've always wanted one, in the beginning there were times when I got really frustrated and discouraged with the amount of things I had to tackle on mine, and most of what I did I learned as I went along. But I must admit, I'm glad I stuck with it. I've wanted a Rover ever since I was a little kid and it's really become a passion. I guess the best advice I can give you is to give it a lot of thought before you jump into anything. Look before you leap! Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From Russell Burns Sat Feb 11 20:37:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 20:37:20 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Rube Goldberg yakima ski rack Well I got the yakima rack on the truck. The trick was to weld gutters to the truck. Actually I welded the gutters to some 90 degree .25 " thick shelf brackets with an added twist. The shelf brackets were about 6" high, so I got enough clearance for the hardtop. I used some 1.75" muffler clamps, and bolted the shelf bracket with the attacked gutter to the external roll cage out side the front doors. I also had to weld a support bar, so the who thing looks like a triangle. I am not too sure how I am gong to get at the ski's, maybe I will have to weld up a ladder to get at them. Russ Burns It a warm -10 F for those of you that have some real cold.. From David John Place Sat Feb 11 23:34:58 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 23:34:58 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Insulation for Land Rover Does anyone know the correct name for the expanded rubbery styro-foam like material used as packing for electronic parts. I want a non hydroscopic expanded foam in the doors of my Rover, but don't know what to ask for. Dave VE4PN From S|ren Vels Christensen Sun Feb 12 06:52:25 1995 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 06:52:25 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: SIGN! (90kb) Most honourable listmembers. Many of you received a sample sign by e-mail just before christmas. A sign that can only be used for a limited period of time within the year. Granville Poole and i have made the final modifications to the original and wish to propose this for the official "club" sign. Please excuse me while i address the latest members to the list. Last autumn there was a discussion about converting this mailing list into something else than a mailing list. Some suggested that we made this a real club with numbers and all. Others suggested the list be replaced by a newsgroup. There even was a poll for a name for this newsgroupclublikething. Some of these names were the result of huge brainpower discharges. (I bet Maloney sat on the mountain shifting letter-bricks for days ;-) ). Well, to make a long entertaining story short; we ended up with a mailing list called "lro@team.net" (@stratus.com). Then Granville mentionend that he was working on a sign. And i can't keep my mouse shut. Due to an example of international cooperation and understanding, the sign is now ready to be evaluated. The image is prepared in the increasingly popular JPEG format, uuencode, and attached directly under this text to avoid some decoding problems experienced earlier. I can also provide .GIF or .CDR (scalable) if desired. In the image are some very Land-Rover specific symbolic. They can easily be spotted by anyone with 90wt in the veins. 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M[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S M[E3^SH?[S_F/\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^ M\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/ M[.A_O/\`F/\`"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F M/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^ MSH?[S_F/\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC M_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_ MO/\`F/\`"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*M MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[ MS_F/\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K= M%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/\` MF/\`"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4 MZ'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_F/ M\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U. MA_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/\`F/\` M"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J M#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_F/\*/[ M.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@ M]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/\`F/\`"C^S MH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^ MY4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_F/\*/[.A_O M/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N M5/[/A_O/^8J46L`&/+'XU-15QPU&.T4)SD^HBJ%&%``]!2T45NE8D****!'_ !V0`` ` end From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:32 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Leslie's in Seattle next week, then NYC I'm making a trip out to Seattle next week and the following week I'm in Staten Island/NYC. If any of you want to get together and talk Rovers (or anything else for that matter) email or ring me and leave a message! Cheers Leslie Stutsman U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 "2 Land Rovers in Florida Others available - leave daytime tel #" From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:48 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: William Dan Terry's troubles Willam- Sorry to hear of all your problems. It is a shame that your first experience with a land rover has started off on such a bad foot (who as the fella anyhow) It will get better. ( I guess it only can, actually) About the choke. Only ever pull it out about 1/4 of the way. People have a tendancy to yank the thing all the way out right from the beginning, and it takes the engine a lot longer time to recover and come into synchro with the rest of the world. It WILL need choke though to warm up and what you are experiencing is not uncommon. Try it with just a 1/4 -1/3 out for a while, and see if it runs any better after. If it doesn't, then come back and discuss how it did react. Or email me your tel# and we can walk it through. cheers Leslie U.K. Land Rover Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 From Falco@Microserve.com (Falco) Mon Feb 13 07:09:15 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 07:09:15 EST From: Falco@Microserve.com (Falco) Subject: digest version? is there a digest version of this mailing list. if so how can i subscribe to it ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't be afraid to be weak, Don't be too proud to be strong Just look into your heart my friend, That will be the return to yourself The return to Innocence (Enigma2) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From SE THOMAS 13 95 Feb GMT 1913 Date: 13 Feb 95 13:01:46 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: *Shell* shocked......... I recently announced that my 2.25 was in fact a 2 litre diesel. This at the time didn't bother me, I never expected startling performance, I just wanted to improve the 15-18 mpg fuel consumption. It turns out the bore was okay, and that the main problem was the valve guides which had no oil seals and were permitting oil to pour into the pistons. So in pursuit of oil control rings (suggested by the people doing the work) for the gap below the gudgeon pin (which 'the shop',name witheld, I phoned assured they had) and other *consumables* such as main and big-end shells, I set off. On arrival at the shop the existence of oil control rings or a twenty ring set, present or past, was totally denied (they didn't even confirm this with me at first, they just put the set on the bench). To top this (although this wasn't their fault....it just came on top of the ring fiasco) they informed me that the 30 quid set of main bearings for a 2.25 were 100 quid for the equivalent 2 litre shells. I didn't even ask about the big end shells....... In dismay I left only purchasing top and bottom hoses, and the outcome is that I shall be rebuilding the engine (turkey??) with existing bearings and a new set of 16 rings. I will replace the valve guides (2.25 interchangeable) and hopefully the pre-combustion chambers (are they the same as the 2.25 too?? They may also be known as Swirl chambers/ Hot Spots etc.), which are cracked. In the short term this should give me an engine for the Landy, with probably better consumption than before, and will enable me to save/search for a good 2.25. I want to stay diesel for the fuel, even though they are a bit more expensive. Any-one want a 2 litre diesel, good runner but impossible to afford replacement parts for?????????? Stephen Thomas "How come it never rains, it only pours. They looked into each other's eyes....." - The Dogs D'amour, 'How come it never rains' From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 13 Feb 95 08:42:25 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Who'se from Clarkson? Who is at Clarkson on this list? Is there a Land Rover haunting the campus of my Alma Mater? Enquiring Alumni Want to know! Cheers. R. Pierce Reid '62 IIa 88 Military Clarkson Class of 88 -- Tech. Communications From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Mon Feb 13 08:59:42 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 08:59:42 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Re: Waterproof Sealant I used that 3M calking...comes rolled in a strip...to outline floor boards and seat box. The good thing about this stuff, I am told, is it can be easily removed. So far no leaks. >I remember reading on this digest a discussion about sealant for the floors >>and seatbox. Any recommend any good sealant ?? Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" Towson, Maryland (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Easton Trevor Mon Feb 13 08:59:00 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 08:59:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: TARC Errata; I sent the wrong address for the Toronto Area Rover Club because I had been given it wrongly. The correct one for anyone who wants to join at $22 can or $16 us is:- c/o Philip Rodrigues 17 Jordonroch Court, Scarborough, ONT MIW 3S9 (Please mention Internet referal) From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 13 09:18:56 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:18:56 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Re: Why a L-R? Hat's off to you Gerry, for thoughts on why to choose a Land Rover! I kept thinking today as I was driving my Rover, that I was quite content to be driving it and not my Volvo, even though it was -20 here in Canada, and the Volvo would have been a lot warmer. It really is the character and charisma of the Rover which makes the difference. I would miss it a lot! I plan to keep driving it as long as I am able, then pass it on to my son to take care of. Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse - currently under restoration From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 13 09:55:43 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:55:43 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Techno-Weld On page 60 of the February issue of LRO, it mentions a new innovative aluminium fusion welding process called Techno-Weld. I was wondering if any folks in UK could shed some light on this process, or provide the phone number or fax for Techno-Weld of Aston, Oxfordshire. Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse - currently under restoration From SE THOMAS 13 95 Feb GMT 1915 Date: 13 Feb 95 15:47:59 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: Re: *Shell* shocked......... Mike, thanks for putting me straight on the rings, at the time I could only go on what I'd been told.....I should have aired it here first and saved myself all the hassle! Stephen "Thing's just seem to go wrong, far too many times" The Dogs D'amour, 'Things just seem to go wrong' From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 13 11:18:25 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 11:18:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... Taylor asks: A cell phone works from a moving LR, but you have to shout, and expect comments like "Are you calling from a steel mill?". Forget the CD player (call it Skippy). Forget the radio. I've done them both. Enjoy the contemplative sounds of moving metal. Anything that has to be played through a speaker has to be turned up so loud that it's holy distortion. Unless, of course, you spend the $$ to turn your truck into a BOOM-Rover. Yech! < True, I'll have to get used to getting out to lock the hubs> DON'T DO IT! Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd. I don't know who sold you on the idea of hubs, but you don't need them. They're a real minus on a Rover. Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or if you want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR hand trottles. No contest. The IIa is the better machine. No polution crud on the engine. A REAL metal dashboard. A better (& funkier) transmission. Air vents that suck real bugs into the cab. If your the type that chases down every squeek & rattle, you'll have your hands full. A Rover is mechanically straight forward & easy to work on. It's basically an overgrown Erector Set, built to be fixed with a rock & a hammer while stuck in a sand dune. Tony From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 13 12:40:58 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: > DON'T DO IT! Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd. I don't > know who sold you on the idea of hubs, but you don't need them. They're a > real minus on a Rover. Matter of debate really... I keep them locked driving about town, but it helps if you can unlock them for the highway... > Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or if you > want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR > hand trottles. I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of these... Rgds, From Mike Fredette Mon Feb 13 10:25:50 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:25:50 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. Dixon's at it again. > What do you see the III offering that is so much better than a IIA? > Granted the III has a lot to offer over a 90, but... What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an opening to stick it to us. I fail to understand why you think that any Land Rover less than 25-30 years old is junk. We went round the mullberry bush on this once before, but is it because you're jealous because of the cost, or what exactly? Someday you'll have to come down to Portland for the Nothwest Challenge and we'll see who has the better equipment. Statements like "Call me in 30 years" are rather silly considering that you are ALWAYS repairing your 30 year old vehicles anyway. In 30 years, I'm quite sure the D90's will need work too. (Hint, here's where you take your shot). I'll be able to buy parts, but will you? Will Land Rover still support the 60 year old Series trucks? Silly to speculate on, so let's keep things in the present for the sake of sane discussion. In the present here and now, the D90 IS a superior vehicle, particularly in TDi form. Pity they don't import it to the US. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Or D90 From "John R. Benham" Mon Feb 13 10:49:12 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:49:12 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Lockheed Brake Shoes Dear LRO's, WARNING ON BRAKE SHOES: This weekend I installed new brake shoes on my 1968 IIA 88. The shoes that were sent to me were the Lockheed BS-053. Everything on them was identical to the Girlings except the hole diameter and thread pitch was different for the lower retainer ring/plate bolts. So a 30 minute/wheel job took a lot longer since I had to redrill and thread the two holes on each respective shoe per wheel. And yes, the brakes work great now! Lesson learned: Before one orders brake shoes, one should ask if they are identical to the Girlings! Also, a 15-foot length of 1/4" ID clear plastic tubing works great for bleeding and flushing out the old brake fluid from each wheel brake cylinder. Just remember to use Castrol GT-LMA DOT 3 & 4 brake fluid for seal compatability. Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile' From Russell Burns Mon Feb 13 10:54:02 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 10:54:02 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: DEF 90 Triv > *Hey Jim, wow - this car's is awesome - I really love it. I just cruised up > through twin peaks at 70 mph. An guess what? I got 255 miles on a tank of good [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > to get to the station. He shook his head and said **I think you spent too much > on the car and not enough on gas!** Awesome!* I got 248 mile on one ofmy first tankfuls. I was trying to get the low fuel light to come on. After I rtfm, I realized how futile it was. Russ Burns From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 13 11:17:05 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 11:17:05 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: SF bay area - interesting LR at Scottys Sorry to blast the whole list with this. But there is an interesting Land Rover currently sitting in Scotty's driveway that some people who are nearby might want to drop by o look at..and urge Scotty to work on my 109 ;*) I don't think it will be there longer than a week or two so if your are intersted in seeing it... The car is a Dormobile, - has a four cylinder engine (All dormobiles I have seen to date are 6 cyl). - has the bug eye outer headlamps that was used only a short time. - has factory external bug screens over the side windows - Has FACTORY air conditioning! I didn't even know there was factory air conditioning for the series IIA Land Rover! The first thing you notice is the rounded section of sheet metal coming out of a cut away section of the rear of the bonnet. It looks like no land Rover bonnet I've ever seen (modified from the delux bonnet). If you pop the bonnet, there is this huge box sitting high on the bulkhead covering the rear third of the engine, and an air conditioning pump on the right. The battery & aircleaner have been moved to fit this stuff. The cowel vents are sealed (inside half of each covered by air conditioner. The air conditioning vents are where the adjusters for the cowel vent adjuster goes. There are a few minor trim differences above the instrument panel as well. Scotty has a photocopy of the original invoice for that car that he showed me listing the air conditioner. I did get some digital pictures of the air conditioning unit. I'll try to get time to get them posted to the LR web server. I also got a couple of shots of the neat shovel mount on Uncle Roger's 109 He has a shovel mount on the top of the left side wing. I've been jealous about it since I first saw it. When I get my LR back, one of the first things I do, other than make a dump run & drive my dog around, is try to put a Roger style shovel mount on my 109 so I can be like Uncle Roger ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 13 14:58:33 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:58:33 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Mike Fredette wrote: > Dixon's at it again. Seems like it... > What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer > Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an > opening to stick it to us. Actually, if you go back over the past year of so, you will see that I have been rather amiss. There are many opportunities that I have missed here. In fact I have even glossed over articles in LRO magazine that could be highly amusing when talking with you. I just rose to the occasion when someone posted, regarding Series electrical systems, "better yet, get a D90". Might I postulate that you are far faster to jump in when a perceived slight occurs. In fact I seem to observe that you generally jump more often when I have fired a round rather than someone else. Oh well... :-) As per the owners, there is a certain catagory that I find a wee bit contemptious, though I can assure you that despite your perceptions is not limited to the D90 crowd. > I fail to understand why you think that any Land Rover > less than 25-30 years old is junk. Their not. If I ever get a 101, it certainly will not be 25-30 years old. I wouldn't mind an earlier two door Range Rover or a rolling coil sprung chassis to play with. > We went round the mullberry bush on this once before, but is it because > you're jealous because of the cost, or what exactly? You don't seem to remmeber the last go round I guess. If I wanted a D90, I could go out and buy one this afternoon. However I haven't done that. As before, I have serious concerns relating to longevity, etc. I also have observations about the profile of LR ownership. Both have idiots amongst their membership, but vehicle type seems to have a preponderance of status seekers, people who could change the oil if their life depended on it, have no appreciation of history... You know the type, the people that you have met that have vehicles that will never go off-road, can't tell a Disco or Range Rover from any Series (D90 included) vehicle. The chap that Sandy met in a parking lot comes to mind. A similar breed are those that want to look cool, just like the owners of white Bronco's that have suddenly hit the top of the charts in sales... But we have been through this before & I am sure we will probably go round again in another six months. I really don't care, though I find the exchanges rather fun & enjoyable... <:-) > be able to buy parts, but will you? Will Land Rover still support the 60 > year old Series trucks? Who cares. Take a look at the vintage automobile scene around the world, if not just in the USA. I see a number of 60+ year old vehicles still puttering about. If there is a buck to be made, someone will be making those parts. Why else can you get Series One parts that were NLA, for many many years, again? I'm not worried. Rgds, Dixon [lots of Series trash] PS. Someday I may make it to the Northwest for one of these Rally's Challenges etc. It would be interesting, thanks for the invite. Of course, you are invited to the east coast stuff, like the OVLR Birthday Party. In fact, I would hope you would bring your 90. None of the 90 owners I've ever met would dream of bringing them on a mud run. You would be refreshing... From Spenny@aol.com Mon Feb 13 15:17:11 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:17:11 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires steve writes... snip... Mark Letouney's 109 hi-cap was just that ..a hi-cap ... don't think it was a 1 ton...1983 109 series 3 RHD snip... I didnt realise there was a difference, i thought all hi-caps were 1 ton Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Russell Burns Mon Feb 13 13:47:02 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:47:02 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. First, I take exception an being called an idiot (as polite as your slam was), I am only half crazy, the other half just isn't there. As for the techical competence of D-90 owners, at least we have to remove the drain plugs to refresh the fluids. The older models you just fill them up daily. While I will admit that there is no justfication for spending 30K on a truck, The D-90 is the most functional, and off road capable truck available to day. I could not use a series truck to commute 100 miles a day. A series truck would not pull my camper (low range ok, I just couldn't get anywhere). If I had to drive 55 mph thru Nebraska, I would never make it to the Rockys. I will admit if I had a choice between driving a D-90, and a series Rover on an off road excursion, I would choose the series one. This is only because I enjoy experiencing the challenge an older technolgy provides. I still dig ditches by hand, use an axe, and a saw, instead of a chain saw. I think somethings need to be experienced. I am not envious of the series trucks, I am envious of the lifestyle they represent. If I could take 8 weeks to make a trip west, I would enjoy rebuilding the transfer case along side of the road. I fear breaking down in Detroit. I cannot see owning a series truck, only to traverse the same mud hole every weekend. A rover is made to get somewhere, In 10 years, we should see whose Rover made it more places. If I could change my lifestyle I could get there in a series Rover. But until I can make that change, the D-90 is a better truck. As for driving thru a spot of mud next summer, I will make every attempt to attend your event. If nothing else I should make a good winch anchor. Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Mike Fredette wrote: none [ truncated by lro-digester (was 76 lines)] > your 90. None of the 90 owners I've ever met would dream > of bringing them on a mud run. You would be refreshing... From S|ren Vels Christensen Mon Feb 13 22:58:08 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:58:08 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Signs of the Times On Sun, 12 Feb 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > To S|ren Vels Christensen..... NICE SIGN! Love it... I'll see if I can print > it on Monday at work.. It's nice that at least one on this list could decode with success. Others couldn't, so i'm working to find a solution. Please be patient for a couple af days. > Cheers > Mike [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > P.S. Is it Soren or Siren or S|ren?? Your name comes across the third way on > my mailer... None of the above actually. IBM, DEC, AT&T and DARPA were not aware of the existence of Scandinavia. The o in Soren is an o with a / over it. Much like the diameter symbol. The host that i pay a lot of money to access converts it to the pipe character. When i was in Longview, WA in '82 i tried to make people pronounce my name right but they kept saying Soren. At the time there was a quarterback at Seattle Seahawks called Zorn. I was an interesting person ;-) later sv/aurens From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Mon Feb 13 17:17:46 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:17:46 -0500 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... Dixon Kenner writes: >On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: >> DON'T DO IT! Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Matter of debate really... I keep them locked driving about town, > but it helps if you can unlock them for the highway... I'm with Dixon here. I used to run unlocked most of the time, just going into a maintainece lock every Wednesday. For everyday use I leave them locked,lubeing, and ready for instant action when I feel compelled to park ON the snow pile left by the plow in the train station lot. ("What do you mean there are no spaces left? What about that one over there?!?") If I'm headed on a long trip I usually remember to unlock them during my first gas stop. No real mileage difference, but she seems to handle a bit better with the front end free. I can't address them from a "serious" off-road perspective since I only venture off road if there's a specific destination, like a trout stream, at the other end of the trail. However before I started my restoration most people I spoke to said that they were desireable as long as you locked them up for a short trip once a week or so to keep them lubricated. For the record, I have the Warn hubs. >> Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or if you >> want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of > these... I don't have a hand throttle, I guess I'll have to settle for the old brick on the pedal method... Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Feb 13 14:28:24 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 14:28:24 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Genesis redux Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales are up strongly. Cheers John Brabyn From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:34 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: EFI warning light on RR >I have a 1988 Range Rover and the EFI light has come on. My experience with >other vehicles usually points to bad oxygen sensor, but I just don't know on >this one. Also do the power seats have anytype of manual override. My >passenger seat will go up, but not back. Any help would be appreciated. What the EFI warning light usually means is "Keep your hands off and see a specialized workshop ASAP". Unless you have the appropriate EFI supplement of the original Workshop Manual (not the Haynes fairy book) and a host of electronic measuring tools plus the knowledge to use them, there's not much you can do with the EFI except screw it up good. As for the seat - sorry, no way out here, either. You'll have to have it fixed or throw it out for a 'normal' manually adjustable seat. Sorry if this was disconcerting... (Malfunctioning passenger power seat plus EFi faults - could be related, maybe a humidity problem. Did you do any deep water wading latey, or perhaps had some flooding in your area?) Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:49 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Zenith vs. Weber - take 349 Richard Strysniewicz quizzed >On a related note, anyone care to comment on the relative merits of Zenith >vs. Weber cabs for the 2.25? I have a Turner performance head but otherwise >stock engine. I'm not lacking for power right now but would like an increase >in fuel economy (wouldn't everyone?) Would a Zenith be any more economical >than the Weber? Usually the opposite is true, the improved economy being the main - perhaps only - advantage of the Weber over the Zenith/Solex lumps. On the other hand a new or reconditioned Zenith can well be a lot more economical than an old buggered-up Weber. The Weber gets its economy at the expense of high-end power (not so noticeable if you have an overdrive). In Europe, the Weber is the LR carb of choice because of the forbidding price of petrol. In the States, it would be pointless to throw out a Zenith or Solex for a Weber (I'm talking of the single-barrel version here, remember). What really boosts economy more than any carb conversion could is a 'Lumenition' ignition control ... but that's another story. Cheers, Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:42 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: fuel + cost + rebuild Harald the Viking has a thirsty friend... > The V8 of my RR'79 is a very thirsty friend to have, so... ... snip > standard -> electronic injection, or I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners of older carbed V8s water... but, a conversion from carburetted to electronic fuel injection just doesn't figure economically, whichever way you look at it. Here's just a list of the items that *must* be replaced totally when doing such a conversion: Cylinder heads, exaust manifolds, all exaust pipes, fuel tank, fuel pump, all fuel supply linings, air filter. Additionally you will have to buy the ECU, air flow sensor, injectors, injector control wire harness, ram air housing, special fuel filter,plus a host of minor electronic devices, sensors, relays. We're talking here about costs in the area of $ 4K. For the same price you can get a complete reconditioned EFi engine. To recuperate these costs in terms of improved milage, you'd have to circle the equator 5 times before it starts to pay off. Converting from old V8 to TDi can make sense economically, at least in Europe, provided you intend to drive your beast for at least another 10 years, because the adapter kit plus a TDi engine (new) will set you back by a good $ 10K. Used TDi's are hard to find, except if someone totals his Discovery right in front of you and you quickly go and make a deal with him while he's on the stretcher and still conscious (just being morbid...) BTW, will you be at the meet in Lillehammer in August? Have fun, Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:55 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. C. Taylor Sutherland, III speaketh: >anybody who has stuck a 6-cyl in theirs, speak up and let me know if it worked A S.III 109 6-cyl. *chassis* is a good choice because it has much stronger brakes than the regular 4-cyl, and a larger (deeper & longer) engine bay which predestines it for any kind of engine conversion you may dream up, including V8. *But*, the straight-six banger engine - forget it. It is a pristine historical piece of machinery which might well be the pride of any motor museum, especially if it is still running, but is has become totally obsolete with the advent of the first V8. The 6-cyl hasn't got nearly the power of a V8 - even an old one - and is at the same time *much* more thirsty, an A-class guzzler. To keep it running properly and within the limits of emission regulations is a full-time job even for an experienced mechanic. Spares are difficult to find and ex$pensive. I know what I'm talking about, I owned one (kept the car but chucked the 6-cyl), and even helped a poor sucker who insisted inspite of my warnings to rebuild one. He runs it at around 23-26 liters/100 km (I told him so...) Don't even go near one. If you have one, donate it to the Smithsonian Institute, care of the Dinosaurs dept. Stefan From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 13 17:36:10 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:36:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Russell Burns wrote: > First, I take exception an being called an idiot Never called you an idiot, I'm just responding to Mike's little love note addressed to me. Nor am I brushing all D90 owners, just a bunch of them & I described the type I meant. Whether you see yourself in that profile is entirely another matter. I don't know if you fit it at all, though you seem to think so, though the rest of your message doesn't indicate it. > I am only half crazy, the other half just isn't there. As for the techical > competence of D-90 owners, at least we have to remove the drain plugs > to refresh the fluids. The older models you just fill them up daily. Not quite daily actually, just depends what you have been up to. That you are hal f crazy is actually a plus as far as I am concerned. Never really liked these concours types that would buy a brand new vehicle and drive it to a car show to put in a concours against older vehicles in a general class. Somehow seems a bit unfair, though enlightening in other ways. > While I will admit that there is no justfication for spending 30K on > a truck, There can be plenty of justification. All depends on what it is going to be used for. Getting the kids at school, groceries, the country club, and the regular car wash isn't worth $30k. Doing some work is. You bring up a lot of good reasons to why you have a 90. A lot of other 90 owners wouldn't have a clue how to answer the question, just huff & puff a lot. > As for driving thru a spot of mud next summer, I will make every attempt > to attend your event. If nothing else I should make a good winch anchor. You are welcome to come if you wish. I would actually be very interested to see a D90 offroad. In some respects they seem to be rather impressive. I do like the idea of disc brakes. You will find we are not a bunch of philistines, but do have our fair share of "unique" people. Rgds, PS. As per Detroit, I wouldn't want to break down their either... From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Mon Feb 13 17:49:32 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:49:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Rovers in Movies Hi, all, I just saw 4weddings and a funeral this weekend, and I was wondering if the landrover (looked like a III88)shown throughout the movie was a bugeye? If this has already been covered in the various RoverMovie mailings, I apologize for the wasted bandwidth. thnx happyrovering stv swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Feb 13 15:41:41 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 15:41:41 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: New Range Rover... preview, and more. Sounds like a good bash! I've seen a few of the new RRs in England on my recent trip, and read a couple of reviews focussing on off-road performance, which seems to be universally acclaimed as stupendous and effortless. In the latest issue of Automobile magazine they compare a number of 95 sport utilities, and are quite fanatic in their praise of the RR's off-road capabilities compared to anything else out there. Of course, the rest of us should retain a degree of healthy scepticism, secure in the knowledge that our older models are better.... If only the thing didn't look like a homogenized Ford Explorer! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "Mugele, Gerry" Mon Feb 13 16:17:00 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:17:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Living in B.C. Hi Kyle, Beautiful country you inhabit. I've spent some time with my 88 wandering the logging road up there myself. Well not at Armstong but down around Keremeos and Princeton area, followed the Ashnola River up to the Glacier Lakes. Absolutely glorious. (My wife was raised in Keremeos.) And there certainly are bunches of elderly L-R. Many Series Is long abandoned awaiting the chance to become a parts car. My Brother-in-law made a point of locating about a dozen IAAs, some could be started but none being used regularly. And how can I get you to send me a few dozen (or a gross) bottles of Okanogan Spring Ale. As far as I know the only place it's available is in the Okanogan region and around Kamloops (or is Kamloops still considered to be Okanogan?). Love that stuff. 8^) Gerry 72 88 From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 13 19:29:17 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:29:17 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: ruckus Oh my, are we fighting again??? Any of you boys married?? rd/nigel From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Feb 13 16:30:15 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:30:15 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: EFI warning light on RR The EFI warning light could signal a lot of things -- if you have the patience and the and the workshop manual, you can check the ECU out yourself with a multimeter. I've done it, but it's tedious. Once mine came on after runnuing really low on gas. Another time it came on after I suffocated the engine by putting my hand over the air intake causing it to die. In both cases the fault cleared itself when the ECU was disconnected and reconnected. If you suspect the oxygen sensor, there's a specific multimeter test for that in the workshop manual. It's also quite possible there's absolutely nothing wrong, but you should get it checked out by the dealer or do it yourself as above. Re the power seats, the problem is almost certainly the control switch, which is easy to replace but costs about $99. They get dirt etc in them and often act up. You can try taking the switch apart and squirting in contact cleaner -- I've done this on one of mine with satisfactory results. I hear the seat controls are ripped off from Mercedes, so you could try for replacements there too but I doubt if they'd be any cheaper! Hope this is helpful -- Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Bill Caloccia Tue Feb 14 00:48:58 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:48:58 GMT From: Bill Caloccia Subject: Re: Signs of the Times Actually I had no problems decoding it, but there are a lot of newbies (to computers) on the list who had no clue it was a uuencoded jpeg file... I managed to save & re-assemble it and decode and view it w/o leaving my Macintosh... I'll be glad to put a copy up on the mail server, and the best thing would also be to put it up on the WWW and ftp servers. I don't think it is a good idea to re-send it through the mail, as it is much too big... --- Since I'm writing I'll throw in my 2 cents.. I think the concept is neat, but the colors and shape are too close to the camel logos... if someone were going to do a print-run, I wouldn't want anything printed with 'team.net' and a land-rover logo on it... I'll get a copy of the auto crosser's team.net logo just for fun and encode it. From William Caloccia Mon Feb 13 19:57:12 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:57:12 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: the Seri(ou)s Wars All right, dixon and russel, I know you've probably both been feeling trapped in the house after a couple weeks of -10 to -20C frozen weather, and the muck in Dixon's transfer case won't even start to drip again until he fires up the kerosene heater in the barn or snow melts first, but face it, you both are just another f**** LR owner (or maybe LR anorak !), so grab a nice room temperature Newkie (a bitter, not the dog) and and go chill out in a nearby snowbank EH ? Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Mon Feb 13 18:01:05 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 18:01:05 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Series IIa or III? The Question; > So which one would you prefer? The IIa or the III? I kinda like what the III > has to offer, but I'd be willing to listen to any arguments. You can't cook your trout on a Series III grill! Gord. From S|ren Vels Christensen Tue Feb 14 03:24:49 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:24:49 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: re-deSigns of the Times On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > Actually I had no problems decoding it, but there are a lot of newbies (to > computers) on the list who had no clue it was a uuencoded jpeg file... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > I'll get a copy of the auto crosser's team.net logo just for fun and > encode it. You're right. Copyrigths and all that. As for camel. The shape is closer to Monte Carlo Rally than to Camel. I think it lands somewhere in the middle. Mille Miglia is closer to Camel than anything except for the red colour. You are of course right about the logo. It can easily be replaced. I'll work on it. And i won't post it directly! I have caused enough trouble already. rgds, Soren velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Mon Feb 13 22:28:51 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:28:51 -0500 From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: 107 wagon turn signals On December 30, Randy Rose said: >Thanks to those who told me about 107 station wagon stuff. As my 107 came >without rear lamps and no wiring harness, I wanted to what the original set [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >manual. If anyone had a drawing of the optional series I turn signal >set up, suitable for 1957, let me know. I'd sure like a copy. Sorry to be so long about answering this, but if you still need the drawings, Randy, I can send you copies of the pages from the Series I parts book, owner's instruction manual (choice of English, French, German, Spanish, or Portuguese for those who have never seen a Series I owner's book), and the workshop manual that deal with flashing indicators. Some of those pages also talk about the trafficators. So Randy, if you still need the drawings, send me your snail mail address. If more people express interest, I might be able to scan them into gifs or jpegs and put them on a machine where they can be retrieved by ftp. The reason I'm so long in responding is that I spent 4 weeks in the Miami Beach, Miami area because my mother was hospitalized. I saw lots of Range Rovers (all sparkling clean), but also had a D90 turn a corner around me as I was waiting to cross a street. Aren't there rules against Land Rovers being so quiet? I also saw a D110 several times. The last time I saw it, it was being parked in front of the hospital as I was leaving. It belongs to a doctor - first name Raoul - who didn't have much time to talk as he was rushing inside because his sister was going into labor. He was surprised when I told him about my 107 because he thought he knew of every LR in southern Florida. He seemed to have quite an array of anti-theft devices on the vehicle. (In my Series I owner's instruction manual, under locking the vehicle, it says "To protect the vehicle against theft, the ignition key should always be removed when parking. As an additional precaution, the distributor rotor may be removed or the petrol tap on the sediment bowl turned "off". When private locks and window catches are fitted, these should be secured when the vehicle is left unattended." I did pocket the rotor and screw in the fuel shutoff tap when I had to park it on the street in Mexico and Guatemala. Steve Margolis 1957 107 Station Wagon, Series I, Still in kit form in Maine (Damn!) serial number 13470093 engine number 114707468 From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Tue Feb 14 01:38:47 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 01:38:47 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive Am I going to get ka-chunka-chunka-chunka every time I shift in a fairly well put together series IIa 88"? I hope the tranny is better than that. Anybody know what I'm talking about? And no, I DO know how to drive a stick AND double clutch. :-) Taylor...you know, the guy desperately trying to join I-bought-a-land-rover- see-me-love-me group... -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From Sekerere@aol.com Tue Feb 14 01:49:57 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 01:49:57 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rover from SA Haven't heard any response from you or the person that you directed me to call in South Africa regarding obtaining and importing (exporting from SA) a pre 1968 Land Rover. I am not sure if my messages are getting through. Would appreciate any help you can give me as we need to do some sorting out before we go to SA in early June, and need to get paperwork done on this end if it is necessary. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Chris Whitehead From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 14 02:15:33 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 02:15:33 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... On 13 feb. Dixon wrote... > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: > > Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of > these... Oh, Darn! My '71 IIa doesn't have a hand throttle.... The other '71 IIa (now a pile of parts) didn't have one either... Shucks! Cheers Mike From "T.F. Mills" Tue Feb 14 00:41:32 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:41:32 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: US Camel Trials report You read it here first (I think), and USA Today will give coverage on or about 15 Feb. Rocky Rover Roy and I witnessed the US Camel Trophy Trials in Colorado. Roy's fun meter broke and he doesn't care; he's ready to die now. Myself, I caught a few winks in my flooded tent while the contestants were slugging it out all through a night of mud and snow, so I'm still willing to live for another experience. We both plan to write articles as time and inspiration permit, and possibly give you all a preview. In the meantime, I don't think it will spoil anything to give y'all a quick glimpse of From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 14 03:04:51 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:04:51 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive Taylor wonders..... > well put together series IIa 88"? NOPE.... > I hope the tranny is better than that. YUP.... > Anybody know what I'm talking about? Haven't a clue, actually.. What in blue blazes *are* you talking about?? Where did you get all these silly notions?? Who has been filling up your head with all this muck and lies??? A "fairly well put together ser IIA" should shift fairly well. If, however, you wind up with something beat up like my SerIII, it *will* go klunk and grind and knash. Even so, I got six years out of it before the tranny went crunch and locked up. And in that six years I did all sorts of on and off road driving, parked the truck in mud past the bumper and at car shows next to shiny Jags, moved farm implements with it, extracted a few stuck Toyota's and Nissans (and reminded them it was a Land Rover that got them out) and generally had a lot of fun with it. So... what *are* you worried about??? From "T.F. Mills" Tue Feb 14 03:43:34 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:43:34 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: mystery Rovers those surplus, crated Rovers of suspicious origin: I have just learned that a Denver dealer who knows next to nothing about Rovers has bought 50 of them, and they are being shipped by train from Canada (Toronto, I think). The dealer does not wish to be identified. He may have acquired an albatross. I'll let you know if and when I hear more. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Steve Methley Tue Feb 14 10:55:59 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:55:59 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: RR mpg: new vs old Stefan R. Jacob suggests: >I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners >of older carbed V8s water... Actually, no it doesn't. The big heavy 4 door EFI's are lucky to get 18mpg, worse for > 3.5 engines. My light little 2-dr (;-)) gets 20mpg+ on Stombergs. A lot of people over here in UK know that. You only get the newer RR's in the States I believe. The old ones are better for what I want in many ways. (The debate runs along the lines of the series/non-series stuff the list is so full of.) Get one Dixon (they're harder to bend at the back)! And they're not much quieter than my Lightweight was, plus the gearbox drips about the same too - at least it takes engine oil! Cheers, Steve. From Steve Methley Tue Feb 14 11:53:54 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:53:54 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: RR mpg: new vs old (fwd) > Gee mine gets about 18mpg on the road... > (and about half that on short runs about town.) Tune it, dude! > Not only that, for the same mileage as a states-side D90, you can carry > four passengers, and still have enough room for a cooler and a Newfie to > stretch out in the back. OK you got me, what's a Newfie? Cheers, Steve (never been below 15mpg!, well maybe 12 once..) From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Tue Feb 14 12:54:04 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:54:04 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Mark's starter woes & simul. lights Mark, your details about the starter relay woes in combination with all lights coming on with the ignition gives me the following thought: "No/defective earthing strap from the battery to the car body." If that's the case, any body mounted (is it) relay will not work becuase of a resistive return line. In addition, the body will be on a higher potential than the battery and engine earth. The earth strap to the engine is ok if the starter turns. Clues in this direction are also if you can modulate the temperature dial with your headlights, and if they're showing relatively high. Try measuring a voltage drop between the body and the battery earth terminal after you've switched on something heavy (lights, fan). You can expect some mVs but not more. Alternatively, earth the battery to the body with an additional strong piece of wire. It maybe that this solves your problems. Good luck, Richard P. Kleihorst. From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Tue Feb 14 13:06:59 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:06:59 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Bill D.T.'s carb problems. Bill D.T. I'm not (yet) too familiar with the Zenith, but the jerky behaviour you're observing without choke (and warm engine) might indicate small particles of dirt in the carb. Pulling out the choke slightly will compensate for the fuel starvation by putting more vacuum to draw more fuel beyond the dirt particle. Note that dirt is not like wear but something that happens from yesterday. You can diagnose the position of the dirt particle by observing in which "carb phase" problems occur, idling phase, overtaking phase, normal phase. Stubborn running in the idling phase can also be because of a bad mixture setting. Note that the "practical classics" magazine dealt with Zenith IV overhaul in the Jan.(?) or Feb.(?) issue of this year. Happy carburating, Richard P. Kleihorst From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Tue Feb 14 14:04:48 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:04:48 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Tie rod ends and bulkhead/firewall repairs. I was able to remove the tie-rods of the '63 "109 last sunday. After soaking in penetrating oil for a couple of days and some hammering like Bill mentioned and a -little- heat from a propane torch, they finally came out. I had to use a 4 foot wrench and a lot of effort to get them started. New ones are in with a smear of anti-seize. Never dealt with tie-rods that were this seized! I plan to loosen all six up to be able to set the steering geometry, they're soaking right now. Saterday and sunday, I've been repairing the left footwell and lower inches of the left A-post. To gain access to the firewall/bulkhead I removed the fender/wing. Love this car! this is a piece of cake on the LR. it took me (novice) 5 minutes. Removal of the door took only 1 minute. (How long does a car thief need?). Anyway, welded in some repair pieces and took some time to get it all painted. While the fender was off I enjoyed the access to the steering box and master brake cylinder. I will try to perform the swap to dual lines this weekend (if the weather permits). I also will start, and probably finish, repairs on the right footwell. Just one tiny question this time. Where do you get vacuum for the booster from a Diesel? The Peugeot Diesel engine fitted has some awkward belt-driven device with hoses to the intake manifold and the oil filler cap. The oil filler cap is hermetically closed for other air sources. I don't think that this device is, or can be used as a vacuum source. It probably is part of the PCV system. From the housing it seems that it holds some membrame pump. I do have the original (worn) 2.25 series II Diesel in the pile of parts, but that wasn't meant for power brakes. So, because of the lack of a vacuum source, I'm still contemplating putting just the dual master in without the booster despite Stefan's warning, sorry for the thought Stefan, and see how it behaves... At least I know what's wrong when it doesn't behave well. Greetings to all. Richard P. Kleihorst, '60 (II) 88" dismantled, '63 (IIa) 109" pre-use repair. . From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Tue Feb 14 13:33:52 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:33:52 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Oldies adn newbies again :( \If your the type that chases down every squeek & rattle, you'll have your \hands full. A Rover is mechanically straight forward & easy to work on. \ It's basically an overgrown Erector Set, built to be fixed with a rock & a \hammer while stuck in a sand dune. [] \Dixon's at it again. \> What do you see the III offering that is so much better than a IIA? \> Granted the III has a lot to offer over a 90, but... \ \ What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer \Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an \opening to stick it to us. I fail to understand why you think that any Land \Rover \less than 25-30 years old is junk. We went round the mullberry bush on this \once before, but is it because you're jealous because of the cost, or what \exactly? Mike's at it again!!! The big advantage of the Series 3 ove the 90 is explained by the first paragraph. The Series 3 is far easier to work on in the back of nowhere, with nothing. The 90 is a much better vehicle on and off the road, but isnt something you can do as much to in the bush with a stick adn your teeth. What do I own? A 90. Do I feel personally insutled when Dixon outlines the advantages of the Series 3? No - I am not cursed with paranoia. Neither vehicle is perfect. They each fulfil a different niche. The 90 is for those with mechanical backup. The Series is for those without. The modern world is such that Landrover have correctly identified the former as the biggest market. I was a year too late for a Series :( I like Meccano. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Tue Feb 14 13:39:33 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:39:33 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Genesis redux /Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the /least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales /are up strongly. Over here, they are bought by farmers as work tools. less by posers as status transport. Farmers aint going to buy a Disco......... I predict the 90 will be around longer than the Disco, cos more folk buy em. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 14 14:07:23 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 14:07:23 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Genesis redux > /Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the > /least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway > +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Er,that's a bit of a sweeping statement,Andy.I admit I'd like to think it was true,though.Disco's outnumber Defender's(ugh,horrble name,try Land Rover's)down here by a goodly margin.Mind you,most of our farms are on set aside,whereas you still have hill farmers in business,so whats true of Wales,may not be true of elsewhere.Nice to hear,though. I'm going to an open I.Mech.E Lecture here tonight.Subject:- "The New Rover 4X4 Vehicle"given by Howerd Whittaker of Land Rover. We'll see....... Cheers Mike Rooth From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 14 09:40:25 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:40:25 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > Oh, Darn! My '71 IIa doesn't have a hand throttle.... The other '71 IIa (now > a pile of parts) didn't have one either... Shucks! Interesting... They all seem to have it up here. I guess I should not have let some of them go to the garbage last year. I thought they were really common. From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 14 09:48:24 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:48:24 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote: > Mundo Maya in May. Twenty countries will be participating, including > Germany, Italy, South Africa and UK. Which begs the question: why isn't > OVLR fielding a team?! And our friends from Oz? And Soren Aurens, the > one-man Danish team? You guys would have the edge -- most Camel > contestants don't have prior knowledge of Land Rovers. LRC has mentioned in the past something about benefits from sponsering something Canadian. Not there... From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Feb 14 09:39:02 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:39:02 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Parts swap Club member Dick Holmes, who keeps his '67 Dormobile over at Diesel Bob's, brought over his Grand Cherokee the other day to swap out the clutch master cylinder. Turns out it is an *exact* replacement for the "CV" style clutch master with integral reservoir as found on late IIa and III Rovers. The only difference is it has an extra rubber dust cap. While this wouldn't make sense from a price standpoint (by and large, Rover parts are *far* cheaper than American car parts, particularly when OEM or dealer- purchased), it might be useful in an emergency situation. They didn't pull apart the internals to compare rebuild kit compatibility, but it did come with a packet of red rubber grease. If anyone is interested, I'll get part numbers and exact prices. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 14 09:53:14 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:53:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RR mpg: new vs old On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Steve Methley wrote: > Get one Dixon (they're harder to bend at the back)! And they're not > much quieter than my Lightweight was, plus the gearbox drips about the > same too - at least it takes engine oil! Not to worry, a carb'd RR is on the list of toys to acquire from merry 'ol England at this time (unless of course the price of the domestic versions drops a bit more to a reasonable level. I will need a Saab replacement in a few years & a RR would be ideal) From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 14 08:16:32 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:16:32 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Fw: chevy info Good News, all! Scotty is getting on-line! Anyway, Some comments on engine swaps he asked me to pass on... ---- Forwarded from JHowat@aol.com: hi roger! my head hurts concering message i read about conversions please pass on the following: The six cylinder Chevy engine has plenty of power (about 150hp) for your Land Rover and makes a good conversion. You would, however have to move the radiator forward and remove the hood latch among other small modifications. The V-8 has plenty of power too, but requires much more adaptation. Also, I feel that it is really too much for the Land Rover running gear. Having evolved the Chevy-to-Rover conversion over the past 20 years ( there have been over 500 done world-wide), I am finding that the most satisfactory conversion to date is the Chevy 4 Cylinder "Iron Duke". It consists of a basic engine swap, with no cutting or moving of engine compartment units, ie; radiator, mounts, controls, etc. The power-to weight ratio is extremely good. Horsepower can vary, depending on the engine build-up, from approx. 90hp to 140hp or more. If you would like to give me a call at 510-686-2255 (California) during business hours, I'd be happy to talk to you more about the conversion. Jim "Scotty" Howat raise you 10 blues ---- End of forwarded message ---- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 14 16:22:08 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 16:22:08 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: More Undiscovered Rovers? A mate of mine asked me yesterday whether I had ever heard of any steel bodied Land Rovers,biult/used in Portugal.Turns out a friend of his had been offered some.My answer was that apart from the Royal Review Rovers,the only other ones I could think of were Belgian Minervas.He reckoned that another bloke he was talking to who used to be involved with mining equipment for underground use had also heard of some.Apparently the National Coal Board(as was) had the bright idea of using Land Rovers for underground transprt,but the snag was that they didnt allow aluminium underground.He'd heard of the steel bodied ones,but they had alloy engines which put the kybosh on the theory for good.(Despite this fact,the local extensive gypsum mines use plenty of diesel Land Rovers underground,and have for years). So,are these mythical creatures *really* Land Rovers per se?Or is it a generic name for UMM Alter's?Or did Santana build steel bodied aluminium engined diesel's for the Portugese Army(They are apparently ex Army).Or are they in fact Minerva's?If so,an *alloy* engine?It would have to be diesel,because petrol's arent allowed undergruond,I dont think.Andy,isnt the 2.5d and the 2.5Turbo D cast iron,like the old 2.25?Any ideas,anyone? Cheers Mike Rooth From Bill Caloccia Tue Feb 14 17:06:13 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 17:06:13 GMT From: Bill Caloccia Subject: Re: RR mpg: new vs old (fwd) > Gee mine gets about 18mpg on the road... > (and about half that on short runs about town.) Tune it, dude! Actually it could probably use some looking after, but it does have a luminition ignition system. The major part of my local mileage is a short commute to work - about 2.5 miles with about 8 lights/stops and I'm half way there by the choke light goes out. With a few side trips I can get it from 2 to 2.5 or 3 miles per liter. I haven't taken any long trips recently, but last time I got 4m/l (~18 mpg). > Not only that, for the same mileage as a states-side D90, you can carry > four passengers, and still have enough room for a cooler and a Newfie to > stretch out in the back. OK you got me, what's a Newfie? newfoundland: any of a breed of very large heavy highly intelligent usually black dogs developed in Newfoundland (my friend's 18 month old newfie was 10 1/2 stone and stood 41" high) If you know what a Great Pyrenees looks like (any of a breed of large heavy-coated white dogs that resemble the Newfoundland), then think of the same in black. Newfies have a habit of dragging people out of the water, and Pyrs have a habit of herding things. > Steve (never been below 15mpg!, well maybe 12 once..) I don't reckon I'll do that well if I make it to the RTV this weekend. -B From Russell Burns Tue Feb 14 10:10:41 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:10:41 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: CanyonLands NP. Do we have anyone from the CanyonLands/Moab area who si familer with that area, this time of year? I am planning a to be there next week(feb 20 thru the 26). Any ideas on the trail conditions? I would like to get over to the maze district as I have only traveled the trail at night.(serious lack of judgment on my part) Any tip, good trails, or other info would be helpful. The following week I will be heading to Colorado to do some CC sking, and camping. My present plan is to do some camping at Rocky Mountain NP. As I will be on my one in Co. I do not plan getting too remote. (at least if you have a partner you can fight for the last meal, winner eats all) Thanks Russ Burns D-90 headed west From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 14 13:14:14 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:14:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: More Undiscovered Rovers? On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Mike Rooth wrote: > A mate of mine asked me yesterday whether I had ever heard of > any steel bodied Land Rovers,biult/used in Portugal. Not in Portugal, but in Canada. Canadian National Railways (Crown corporation) had some steel bodied 109 pick-ups built for them by Solihull. Look identical to the aluminium bodied ones, but steel instead. I know where a couple are, but the owner wants hidious amounts of ca$h for them... rGDS, BTW, they are IIA's I believe. From Spenny@aol.com Tue Feb 14 13:33:28 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:33:28 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO Sign The sign is excellent! S/oren, i have misplaced your address, so i can't e-mail you directly, can you re-send the file to me? there was an error so i can't print the sign. sorry to waste bandwidth... Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Tue Feb 14 13:38:10 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:38:10 -0500 From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Subject: ARO--Now Another LR Wannabe A 4x4 Yugo? Well, perhaps in spirit. Today's Bangor (Maine) Daily News ran an Associated Press story out of Dallas re: ARO's "debute" at the NADA convention. The long and the short? Several Floridians say they'll bring in the Romanian SUV in May, starting with 10 to 12 dealers who will target the East Coast first. Aros will come in two and four-door versions, with a 1.8 litre four in the former, and a 180 h.p., 2.9 litre Cosworth V-6. Takes no rocket scientist on this end to predict Aro's target market will be defined by the vehicles' prices: $7,995 for the 2-door; $9,828 for the four-door. Also offered on both models are a driver' side airbag and a 36,000-mile warrantee. According to the AP reporter, "The vehicles resemble an older model Land Rover, with a boxy shape and upright stands. Both fit and finish are somewhat crude but the interior on the display mdoles was quite plush." The reporter goes on, "Trotman [The Florida importer] says he isn't worried that Eastern European vehicles might have a poor reputation among Americans who experienced the Yugo in the 1980s. "If there's a long-term plan in place for parts, service and warantees, those problems will take care of themselves, he [Trotman] says."" Rambling commentary: Some dealers here in Maine tried (and failed) importing the Aro in the late 1980s, available only as a two door and with a Ford 2.3 litre V-6 engine. There are a couple buzzing around Portland and one parks on occasion in my office lot here in Augusta. The vehicle's lines are--to me--rather attractive, but their slavic hertitage is obvious: the coachwork appeared cheap in construction and paintwork was poor. Never drove in one, so I cannot report on performance. The AP reporter's comparison of ARO to LR makes me wonder how much of a SUV market can ultimately be sustained in the U.S? What does it do for the value of our Landies? (Not that I really care, but the perceived appreciation of my '65 S.II-A buys me a lot of tolerance from my girlfriend. Bless her practical heart.) Lastly, I feel de je vue (all over again) when this SUV is said to resemble the venerable Land Rover. It's like when a Mazda Miata pulls up in traffic next to me while I'm sitting in my Lotus Elan. More than often the Miata driver will crook his or her head from side to side as if a cocker spaniel. Priggishly (I can't help it, really!) --Paul From "John R. Benham" Tue Feb 14 10:49:22 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:49:22 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Land Rover vs. Hummer - again! Dear LRO's, Recently a group of paramilitary types with their respective vehicles challenged themselves on a wintery weekend of camping and what not(?) here in the Northwest. Of their assorted vehicles, two were older Land Rovers, one a newer 110 Land Rover, and one a new Hummer. On Sunday morning after a very cold evening, they all started their vehicles except - you guessed it - the Hummer. It took all the mechanical talent of their group plus a compilation of various tools and about three hours of tinkering to get it started. Then on the way back to Spokane, it broke down again and was left on the side of the road until a proper repair could take place. Maybe the Hummer can do this and that, but can it be depended on mechanically? Did AM General grossly over engineered it? The Land Rover has a reputation of getting you back home. What is the Hummers reputation? I was not present at this gathering but heard about it second hand from our local Rover circle. Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile' From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 14 13:57:28 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: LRO Sign On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote: > The sign is excellent! I agree. If there were any suggestions, a tire on the bonnet of the soft-top might look interesting. Rgds, From C Taylor Sutherland III Tue Feb 14 15:08:25 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 15:08:25 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: IRC chatting... Too bad there isn't a regular channel on IRC that some real time conversations couldn't take place... Oh BTW, the klunka-klunka I was talking about was this. Imagine every time you changed gears it sounded like what you would expect if you were to just slam on the brakes and let the truck hop to a stop and stall. That is the kind of klunka I'm talking about, and I get that frequently with the tranny on my Blazer, which is one of the major reasons I want to get rid of it. The only other Rover I have driven would be the '93 Defender 90, before they put the same gear box as is in the Disco. Compare the shifting of a series rover in good shape to that as that is the only link I have. Try to be nice. :) Taylor...any body want to buy a slightly used S-Blazer? :-) From Mike Fredette Tue Feb 14 12:14:04 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:14:04 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: The pot was stirred Dixon, Well it would seem that I/we have overdone things a bit. I can certainly see your points about certain owners of the newer vehicles,(even the older ones on occassion),wanting the image but having no notion of the history, or giving a shit even if they did. I guess I have been a bit sensative because there are a few here in Portland who fall into that catagory. I also must agree with your assessment of the parts situation for vintage cars, though in 30 years I would hope the D90 would enjoy the same benefits as to parts availability. As you say, if there's a buck to be made, someone will be making it. I also realize you're enjoying these little tete a tete's as am I . But it would appear that Mom is not so I guess we'll have to cut back. I'll quit being so thin skinned, if you'll quit painting with such a broad brush. Though you have been as you say, rather quiet of late in your bashing, missing many golden oportunities. Anyway, I'd love to come out to your mudfest, but where the hell is Nepean, Ontario? Obviously North, but East or West of the Great Lakes. How far do I have to drive? You guys should think about a trip this summer early. Doug Shipman is doing an event around Memorial day weekend or so. It'll be a Camel Trophy style team event, two guys per vehicle, two vehicles per team,limited to 40 teams max. 50 bucks per vehicle to register which will cover our insurance, permits, prizes. The Pacific Northwest 4-wheel Drive Assoc is the sponsoring body, but it will be open to all 4wheelers. At first we were going to try and limit this to short wheelbase vehicles, but some of the pickup guys got steamed so we had to let them in. Which is fine because the courses will not be quite so hard on bodywork. There will be special tasks, orienteering, winching, the whole nine yards, but team oriented. It'll be here in Portland, on some of the same trails Doug uses for his Northwest Challenge, which are pretty hairy at times. We've got some cool prize sponsors, Warn and Superwinch will be giving away some big stuff, ARB will pop for some air-lockers and other stuff. Again, let's bury the hatchet,(if there ever was one)there's room for all of us here on the list. Actually, this list is about the most civil there is. Some of the other folk out there can get outright nasty. Rgds Mike Fredette D90(former Series III) 90 Range Rover Portland, Oregon From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Tue Feb 14 13:05:22 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:05:22 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: great stuff expanding foam Howdy, Dave Place asked about expanding foam; I've seen a spray can of the stuff in the local hardware store. It's called "great stuff" and sounds (from the label) like what you're looking for. I haven't used it but if you need, I can copy the company name and address from a can. My recollecetion is that the stuff isn't cheap but if it expands to a great degree, you won't need more than a couple cans to to four doors! Good luck. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Tue Feb 14 13:22:47 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:22:47 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Lightweight Advert. Here's an interesting ad that appeared in the Collector's Cars section of the San Francisco Chronicle today. I have no idea who is selling, or what's condition of the vehicle. I was amazed at the asking price, and thought a few others (especially those in the UK) might also be intrigued. "LAND ROVER. Rare air-portable (LT WT) RAF, 88". Ferry O/D. $10,000. 209-754-5802 days; 209-754-1256 eves/wknds." A quick check of the classifieds in LRO Mag suggests that there is something like a 3x premium for this "rare" vehicle. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu (Home) Davis Community Network | Davis, California | wcswain@silva.wr.usgs.gov (Work) From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 14 16:47:05 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 16:47:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Lightweight Advert. On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu) wrote: > A quick check of the classifieds in LRO Mag suggests that there is > something like a 3x premium for this "rare" vehicle. If in good shape, this is about the going rate for one of these in North America. LRO is the U.K. prices. For a overview of N.A. prices, check out Hemmings. If this is in really good shape, it is probably cheap. Rgds, From Kelly Minnick Tue Feb 14 14:28:57 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 14:28:57 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Fighting RE: Fighting and bickering You guys sound like my kids! What's the deal? I four wheel with anyone who loves to get out and enjoy nature no matter what he is in. He's only con- sidered a snob if he can't take an expensive toy off-road. I had a '87 RR and took it everywhere I have taken my '64 and '73. I do have to admit that the maintenance on the RR was much less than the series. I didn't loose any fillings on the trip, either. And in the desert, the AC was nice. Still, I didn't feel at liberty to just drill the dash and add all kinds of stuff to the dash, or replce genuine LR parts with easier to get american replace- ments. To each their own. Really! I love both. If I could afford it, I would keep my series, buy the D90, and have a Disco for the wife/family for the long trips up North. I do resent some of the SNOB appeal I've been getting from the dealers in the LA area as I am now trying to buy either and older RR ('90 or '91) or a new stripped Disco. These people act like they are doing me a favor by letting me buy one of these things. I don't need a FAX machine in the dash, thank you. No, I don't make $300K a year, either... I suppose after working with doctors and lawyers, one looses sight... I met 12 HUM VEE owners on the Sherman jeep (?) trail last year in my SIII. Wanted to ask the guy a bunch of questions, but he didn't have the time of day for me. As they drove off, one of the guys yells, ' Hey, nice defender!'. i.e. you can't judge people by what they are driving. I could be a snob in a Pinto or Vega. I do feel that the LA crowd promotes this attitude, though. Too bad. Don't know if the D90 is better or worse. Probably both! Be nice, & have fun. That's what it is all about. Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA p.s. I AM jealous of you D90 owners...! From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 14 18:07:44 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:07:44 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. Best Rover? - 1968-9 IIa 88, 2.25 petrol, tropical roof or canvas. From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 14 18:45:23 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:45:23 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: FreeWheeling Jeff Berg makes my point! If hubs don't increase MPG (the don't), and they are an expense (the are), they increase maintenance (they may, if you don't periodically use them), and they decrease performance (they will, if they aren't locked when you need them), and they are a hassle (they are, when you have to get out in the snow or mud to engage them, or when you have to periodically lock/unlock them to keep them lubed), WHY BOTHER? Hubs were invented for CJ's and the like. These cars had serious drive train problems without this band-aid approach. I have been in enough situations where hard surface suddenly turned to mud, slush, snow, or wet clay that I am glad I never had them, AND with 25 years, 1/3 million miles, and $0 maintenance on the front end of Lulubelle, I can't seem to see the down-side of driving the truck the way it was intended. From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 14 18:55:17 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:55:17 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Hand trottles The hand throttle was pre-'70's part that was fitted to keep the engine at revs while working outside the truck with PTO equipment (most commonly, a capstain winch). It looked a lot like the dash vent lever mounted horizontally under the dash. From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 14 19:00:00 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:00:00 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive Taylor, I don't think you really want a Rover. You're asking too much. All of the old Rover trannies clunk. It's part of the charm. So far, if I'm keeping track correctly, you want a LR but you think it's too drafty, too noisy, too under-powered, too uncomfortable, too much maintenance, and now you don't like how the transmission shifts. BUT YOU DO WANT THE IMAGE! I think you're going to be one unhappy fella if you buy a Rover. --------- From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Feb 15 09:36:59 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 09:36:59 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Robert's Mercruiser Saw Robert's Mercruiser the other day...man, it is one neat installation. Somehow, the engine is *smaller* than the Rover 2.25, yet cranks out 151 horses. Robert was able to use the stock Rover intake and exhaust manifolds...but fabricated an adapter plate between the manifolds and the block. Seems that the Mercruiser/Chevy intake ports are squarish and the the Rover's are, of course, round. The one inch thick adapter (appears to be a brass billet) makes the transition from round to square. If he were to paint it, you couldn't tell it from original equipment. The boy can make things *work*. Robert reports that acceleration is almost "frightening". He has installed his usual brake conversion...stainless steel master with a remote booster...so that it stops just as quick as it goes. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From changc@vlab.nsd.fmc.com (Cheng-Lung Chang x????) Wed Feb 15 08:43:02 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 08:43:02 CST From: changc@vlab.nsd.fmc.com (Cheng-Lung Chang x????) Subject: Discovery skid plates Hi, I am posting this for a guy on the "Offroad Digest". If you know the answers he is looking for, please e-mail to his wife's e-mail address:dputman@usaid.gov ---------------------- From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 15 09:50:51 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 09:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: What *I* Heard Was... On Wed, 15 Feb 1995, Mike Rooth wrote: > The Classic Range Rover will remain as long as there is a demand > for it,since the customer survey they did for the new model, > indicated that there were mant people completely satisfied/bessotted > with the old one. This is exactly what they have been doing with the Mini. As long as it makes a few pounds, flog it. (Wouldn't mind the engine that's in it now either... a 1275 injected lump) > I asked whether the Tdi would be introduced in the US.The reply was > that there was no demand for it and that therefore it wouldnt be. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > appreciative of their customer loyalty.So where they got this > impression from may be Mr Hughes et al,to what end,who knows. LRCanada asked for this already. Solihull told them that they couldn't build the vehicle we want at a decent price (ie bring in a TDi stripper as sold to your farmers). The last bit in you paragraph is just the usual propoganda... You should have asked about the rumour that they are axing support for a lot of the Series parts, albeit the slack will be picked up by the OEM type, but... Rgds, From Kelly Minnick Wed Feb 15 7:03:24 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 7:03:24 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: HUBS RE: Hubs My SIIa had no hubs. The drive flanges on the front were so worn that I either had to replace them with new flanges, or buy some used Warns ($90/pair). >From my understanding, the older flanges wore easily (yes/no?). That's why I run the Warn hubs... Any input? Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 15 10:15:20 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 10:15:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Perdition's Flames On Tue, 14 Feb 1995 jpappa01@InterServ.Com wrote: > Wow! My eyebrows have been singed off me face, mates! The scud exchange > between D90 and Series landies was expected, if not a bit on the strong side. Mere puffery Jim. Neither side brought out the real weaponry. Not enough time to escalate properly, gather allies, you know, the usual process followed when you want to have a real good roast. > I look at it this way - most of the lroteam netheads are niche enough to rise > beyond individual model vs. model. No, not really. (at least in public) > Pointless. All Land Rovers. All good. All of the same cloth. Not pointless. A learning experience. All different. A 101 is different from a 130 which is different from the 4.0SE range rover which differs from an 81". We like 'em all too,.. > I feel a slight uneasiness - it was alluded to in one of the exchanges that > people who buy new vehicles and enter them in a concours event with older > vehicles in a general class are guilty of heresy. Should be burnt at the stake. Granted it is also the fault of the organisers to have concours events where they have everything from an Austin Healy to a Mini is the same judging section. > vaguely resembling myself had his new Def 110 at the British Invasion a couple > of years ago and took second place in the Land Rover class. The people choice awards at Stowe are a joke. You know it, I know it, a lot of people know it. Just by showing up, your 110 was elegible to be voted on. You didn't stick it in there deliberately. We're not sticking pins in you here. As per the clases at Stowe, we have argued with Chris Francis & Gaetano for the past four years about this. (Note: they have never responded, nor acknowledged any of our suggestions that they ask us to mail back every year...) Two years ago he rightly said that five-seven Land Rovers/Range ROvers do not justify seperate classes. Last year there were nearly thirty or so Land Rovers there. If the Jags can have something like twenty different classes, we can have a couple (at least taking the Disco/RR out. We will see what they have to say. From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Wed Feb 15 10:07:38 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 10:07:38 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Lodes & Cheweys Tom Wrote: none Yesterday I read about an off road test of the new Range Rover in Off-road and 4WD mag (UK) where the lucky swines got to drive it around Land Rover's test track in the grounds of Eastnor Castle. They were favourably impressed with its performance, but claimed that this is expected since the test track has been prepared to suit Lode Lane products and make them look good. What do they mean by prepared? none Lode Lane would be foolish to create a test track that their vehicles could not navigate. I would suspect that the water runs/mud bogs have a rock/gravel foundation, as most of the off road schools do. If they didn't, they would quickly become impassible. They're probably designed to the point that a novice could still get stuck, but a skilled driver would get through. The idea would be to demonstrate the limits of what the vehicle could do and for the most part keep just under those limits. They also have spots designed to demonstrate winching, that are impassible. Just speculation on my part. Has anyone seen a commercial for some sort of Chewey candy, with a D90 going through a jungle? I only caught the last few seconds of it the other night. Just bored & curious. Baloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 15 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 15 Feb 95 10:15:46 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Air Portables not rare Walter: Air portables are certainly not rare... Thousands of them were made for the Para's and even more were sold to Belgium and Belize. Unless the vehicle is near mint and has its full tool-load, it's not a $10K vehicle. There is a guy up near Cleveland (Bob Stall) who has a gorgeous lightweight. Also a number of really nice military Land Rovers -- a 109 ambulance, a couple of really rare special-purpose forward controls, lightweights, etc. If you ever get to any of the Blue Ridge LRC meets, he is usually there. Cheers, R. P. Reid From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 15 09:44:09 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 09:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: The AntiChrist On Wed, 15 Feb 1995 taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu wrote: > The rover in "The God's must be Crazy" was a series I, right? That would make > it an 80" wouldn't it? Sereis One came in the following wheelbases: 80" (three different front grille arrangements) 81" 86" 88" 107" 109" > And I could hear nicely through the soundtrack that that thing was LOUD! :) > Would anyone want to venture a guess as to the engine that was in it? Probably a 2 litre, though it has been a long time since I saw the movie... From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 15 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 15 Feb 95 10:28:13 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?) >> Sanna@AOL.com wrote: >> Best Rover? - 1968-9 IIa 88, 2.25 petrol, tropical roof or canvas. IMHO, there are several best Rovers... For a dependable sport-ute that fits in with family/suburban lifestyle... Disco. For a vehicle that to drive off-road (because you don't want to get your Turbo Bentley dirty) a Range Rover (personally, I prefer the SWB, but hey, I would not kick a County LWB out of the garage for dripping oil) For ultimate off-road ability (backwoods repairability notwithstanding) a Defender 90 (I want one!!) To drive across Greenland -- 101 Fwd Control towing a 110 Defender For total reliability and ease of maintenance and outstanding off-road performance, a IIa 88 (but not a late one with fender-mount lights). Add a trailer if not enough space. For the ultimate statement of quirkyness an 1958 RHD Series 1 fire engine (Sorry, dad, I could not resist)... You see, IMHO each Land Rover has its own enthusiasts and its own niche uses. Some of those uses overlap, some don't. In the ideal world, all of us on this list would have one of each, so we could choose them like golf clubs (and we would have unlimited free time, bottomless gas tanks, and no paved roads in North America...) Time to wake up. R. P. Reid From Jose Alicea <73023.1511@compuserve.com> 15 95 Feb EST 1912 Date: 15 Feb 95 12:29:05 EST From: Jose Alicea <73023.1511@compuserve.com> Subject: LandRover Subscription subscribe From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Feb 15 12:53:37 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 12:53:37 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Forbes Magazine I just received this month's "ASAP" Magazine, published by and sent to all "Forbes" subscribers. The LRO mailing list gets mentioned in "the electronic parking lot" along with another dozen marque groups. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Guy Arnold Wed Feb 15 13:19:57 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:19:57 EDT From: Guy Arnold Subject: Bleeding LR Brakes and Clutch > From: "John R. Benham" > Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:49:12 +1100 > Subject: Lockheed Brake Shoes none What is the importance of the 15' of hose to bleed the brakes? I have used a couple feet and jar partially filled with brake fluid. On my recent overhaul with rebuilt master cyclinders and wheel cyclinders I am having trouble getting all the air out of the system. Is the answer alot of patience and try,try again? Any hints would be appreciated. Guy Arnold Clarkson University 1973 SeriesIII swb From "Mugele, Gerry" Wed Feb 15 10:34:00 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 10:34:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Parts, Wars, Hand Throttles and Newfies An assortment of thought/comments on recent online chatter... Parts availability...When I bought my first L-R - in 1969 from (Laughing) Paul Felton...the dealer (probably not really a thief) in San Francisco, BMC was responsible for parts...later it was British Leyland...and then they pulled out of the U.S. market...in late '74 (?). During those 5 years...it was almost impossible to get ANY parts from the dealer. Atlantic British founded in those years was the first ray of hope...But it was not until my '69 was old enough to vote that I found parts available as needed (with the exception of the large amber turn signal lenses) and priced somewhat sanely. I believe that Rover's North really got the North American Parts business organized and forced the competitors to get their acts together. The Series v. Newbie wars: Hey...I love my Series III and if I were needlessly rich...I'd go buy a new one of everything a D90, D110, a Disco and a RR. And I'd take 'em out and thrash 'em just like I've done with my dear old Gooey. In 1990 at Moab I was very impressed with the RRs, they did it all. A guy named Grady (from Grand Junction?) took his RR everywhere the rest of us went...and he did it with the air-conditioning on. BUT I ain't got that kinda loot. I think there is another factor though...the social aspects. In the area I live, Sonoma Valley Calif. The Discos, D90/110 and RRs are everywhere...dozens of 'em...and almost none of the people on the phone at the helm have any idea what my Series is. And they don't care, why should they...they didn't buy theirs because of the idiosyncratic hardware in the next lane...they probably bought it after considering the pros and cons of the other contemporary SUV and/or Luxury cars. I'm sure that Grand Cherokee owners are somewhat aware that the post-WWII Willys are the ancestors of their rigs...and I'll bet mostly they don't care. It's much the same thing that happened to MGs in 1955/6 when the T series MG owners considered the MGA an aberration and MGA owners thought their cars were most closely related to Jag XK140s or Austin Healeys. The real problem is the damn Marketing cruds at Land Rover North America that are playing up the Status angle...and successfully getting market share by charging too much. Mercedes North America did the same thing about 15 years ago...they first doubled prices (relative to European) and doubled market share...and as they further increased prices...ditto share. It's the same reason a stainless steel Rolex costs 20 or 30 times as much as a perfectly good and more accurate run of the mill watch. People want to buy the image/mystique/cache. Sorry for rambling here but it pisses me off. Hand throttles...my 72 has a hand throttle on the firewall mounted vertically above the left side of the transmission. Works great as cruise control driving across Nevada. And Newfies...Mike Rooth sorta has it right...they are beautiful, large, lovely dogs...but in a Land Rover they are actually the window tinting mechanism. I use a smaller lighter version, a Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesian) Ridgeback does the job for me with some help from a Labrador. In order to reduce Ultra-violet intrusion the "Newfie" smears liberal amounts of dog snot and saliva on the inner window surfaces. Very effective and provides some privacy as the glass becomes very nearly opaque in just a few hours. They also serve and an urban car theft deterrent and to mask any aromatic problems you might experience. 8^). Gerry 72 88 From Morgan Hannaford Wed Feb 15 11:12:45 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:12:45 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: Lodes & Cheweys Sighting! Sighting! The Jolly Rancher T.V. add has a D90 ala girl and boy slashing their way through the jungle to get to some temple thing. Boy, I must watch too much TV to have seen this brief shot. Also, the magazine titled "Practical Classics" (must be Land Rover namesake) Feb. issue has a Land Rover special: What type to buy, history of, what it can do, how to restore etc. Saw it at Barnes & Nobel, but didn't want to shell out $6.50. Funny though, this is a British rag, but they said some funny things about Land Rovers. It was all about series Rovers, and the writer said that the later vehicles (i.e. ser III) are cushier, so occasionally frowned upon as not being in the Rover spirit. Then he goes on to say that the Ser. III gearbox is stronger than earlier models. Well, I suppose it is if you don't know how to double clutch.... But my overall impression is that the writer didn't really know much about Rovers at all...... Oh ya, there is also a brief section on engine conversions....merely discriptive. Ciao, Morgan Hannaford U.C. Berkeley '69 IIA 88" From Russell Burns Wed Feb 15 12:00:31 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 12:00:31 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 tidbits I have got the Hi Lift jack bolted to the bumper, fit like it was designed for it. I put a bolt thu the two inside nuts on the bumper, and they happen to be the correct spacing. I put a little foam around the jack handle, and on the bumper, and it is great. Now I should have a Ten mile an hour bumper. I also isntalled a CB radio. I mounted it in the center of the storage bin, and got the power off the cig lighter. I ran the antenna wire down to the main fuse area, and over to the panel with the dimmer switch. Under that panel is a grommet thru the bulkhead. Great truck to work on. As far as replacing the ECU. If it fails out of warrenty I will probably just remove the engine, use it for a spare for the Range Rover, and put a TDI in. D-90 Series wars, If you can't poke fun at your buddy stuck in the mud, you shouldn't be playing in the mud in the first place. Any one got some cold weather MPG figures for s D-90. Mine seems to get 14 MPG in cold weather, and better in warmer. (haven't had three warm days in a row since I got the truck.) Warning flasher. Uncle Lucas ran a 1" diameter bundle of cable up to that switch. I think he wired each light seperately. Sometimes I think I am drive a good percentage of the worlds copper supply down the highway. Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 Range Rover From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Wed Feb 15 15:37:10 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 15:37:10 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Ideals...To Rover or not to Rover Hi, Just responding to your comments about my desires in a Rover. Noise: Noise doesn't bother me. Like I said, I have driven a Toy LC with no overdrive and big funky tires and, man!, was it loud (It especially made a hell of a lot of racket when I blew the head gasket doing 75mph. :) ) Good tires and good seals, if I'm not mistaken, should keep it down to a bearable roar. Cumfort: Anything would be better than what I've got now. I've been driving for 2 years with a spring in my seat trying desperately to shove its way through my leg and this is supposedly a comfortable bucket seat...bah! Power: I have a 2.8L V6 in my Blazer and it barely will do 60 up a mountain. The gearing is such that I can get to 90 if I so desire (most of the time I don') but I can drive quite nicely at ~70-72mph. I have talked to someone who has a Rover going 75 on highways so I know it can be done. Electricity: I've made a lot of posts about wanting power ports. That's only because I need the phone and spotlight from time to time. Plus radios have been put in the things and worked. I had a radio in the LC but it was also so loud you had to turn the thing all the way up just to make out the tune, but it was still cool. Maintenance: I'm not afraid of doing work on a car. I just have never had a car that you really could do any work on. I would like to be able to get to a problem and fix it myself if I had the need. If I fried a wire on my Blazer, there is no way in hell I could find it, let alone fix it on the spot. The extreme less complicatedness of the series rovers appeals to me. But then again, I don't want to buy one rusting in someone's yard as apparently most of the people on this mailing list are wont to do. I'd rather start off with fixed vehicle and learn how to fix it when the time arose. From my research, I have found that it is only the kit, fixer-uppers are the ones that have the transmission fall out in the street. Now you can probably fix it, but if I get a refurbished vehicle (if it is done well enough) then I shouldn't have those problems right off the bat. Image: So I want to have an image. So what? If it breaks on the side of the road, then people get to see me lean over the side, jiggle something and go on trucking. (given a little time to learn how to do it) They can laugh and say that it shouldn't have broken in the first place and that is a piece of junk, but then I can laugh when they hit a pothole and have to pay $100 + labor to have the oil pan replaced. (This happened to me with a Peugeot, but I really had a head on collision with a hill...long story) Sorry, I didn't mean to flame...but I do want to get it across that I'm not after a suburbia cruiser with the shell of a rugged 4x4. I actually do want sommething rugged and ugly (well maybe not ugly :) ) and noisy and something I have a chance of fixing myself if something goes wrong: something like a rover. My incessant questioning has only to do with my lack of experience with these vehicles. I question the utmost limits of the things I listed above and thereby have a better idea of where I stand. Were I to ask if it will run, or if it will go 45 mph, then the answers I would get would be yes and yes and it won't tell me that it runs some of the time with a little maintenance or that it goes 45 but not 46...you get the point. I only want to have a crystal clear picture of what I'm getting myself into. Besides, NOBODY can fix a toyota land cruiser, except yourself if you've had it all your life and you don't get near the support for those things. I know, we've had 2 and both are rotting away somewhere because when they break, you got a bunch of trouble. Anyway, I'm through ranting and raving... Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Wed Feb 15 15:50:08 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 15:50:08 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: throttle So which IIa's have a normal foot pedal and which have the hand throttle. Or am I missing something major here, in that they both have a normal pedal but some of them have an extra hand throttle? Taylor...still a neophyte -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Wed Feb 15 16:55:58 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 16:55:58 -0500 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Ideals...To Rover or not to Rover Taylor writes: >Power: I have a 2.8L V6 in my Blazer and it barely will do 60 up a mountain. >The gearing is such that I can get to 90 if I so desire (most of the time I >don') but I can drive quite nicely at ~70-72mph. I have talked to someone who >has a Rover going 75 on highways so I know it can be done. >From my experience 75 is pushing it in a 2.25. 65 seems to be my maximum cruisng speed. (16" tires, overdrive and Zenith for those tracking these things.) Maybe my engine isn't as highly tuned as some, but I've only seen 75 twice in my Rover. Once was the night I picked it up, saw 75 on the level after having come down a fairly steep downhill, and the second time was while drafting a semi on my way down to the Mid-Atlantic Rally. Somewhere between 65 and 70 the steering gets rather vague anyhow, so I can't say I'm striving for more speed. Your mileage will probably vary... JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Feb 15 14:54:24 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 14:54:24 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: throttle In message <2035e3ae.109b7-taylors@tia.hubcap.clemson.edu> C. Taylor Sutherland, III writes: > So which IIa's have a normal foot pedal and which have the hand throttle. Or > am I missing something major here, in that they both have a normal pedal but [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. > <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> > <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> Foolish me I just assumed hand throttles came as standard equipment on all Land Rovers in NADA. I guess they didn't make the transistion to those new fangled series III rigs. It was in my ex '69 88, and is in my IIA Canadian spec 109. All Land Rovers come with a throttle pedal. I think they were standard in NADA Land Rovers up to but not including those flashy high tech Series III rigs. They probably wouldn't fit on that big fancy instrument panel. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 15 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 15 Feb 95 18:36:43 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Misc. Richard.. A normally aspirated diesel will not induce enough vacuum in the inlet manifold to power a servo. LR overcame this by fitting a butterfly valve over the end of the inlet manifold, this was opened and closed by an additional link to the accelerator cross shaft so that on over run it closed and created a vacuum. A vacuum tank was installed to act as a reservoir. They were not very efficient. I have the parts but unfortunately they are 3000 plus miles away at my home in England. Your best bet is to look out for a belt driven vacuum pump fitted to a small diesel engine. this will be more efficient. Watch out tho, some of them do not have a self contained lubrication system. These can easily be adapted to be belt driven from a double pulley on the front of the engine( as fitted to the 24 volt versions. Just seen the 90 ad for what to drive in an area where you are the food. How do poeple keep thier Landies so clean off road ? To add to the fuel debate I ran several V8 rangies in the UK, my 85 carb model averaged 12 miles to the Imp. gall over the six years that I owned it, much of this was either short runs by my wife who had trouble counting to 5 in the gearbox or towing a 20 foot caravan. My 75 off road competition motor, driven to events on the road, also averaged 11.5 mpg during my careful ownership of it, this include the off road trial mileage also. REgards Bill Leacock limey in exile. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 15 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 15 Feb 95 18:36:49 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Cooking ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Feb 15 19:27:17 1995 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 19:27:17 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: ** SPECIAL *** The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > Why am I doing this ? > I'm getting tired of the same old whinging (in real time) of how [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > everything else on four wheels is garbage. > If you think this would be a better thing, then send a message to Bill I fail to see how this will help. Perhaps it is intended to wing up more support from the RR/Disco/D90/D110 crowd? Sounds to me like more gas on the fire. humph, rd/nigel From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Feb 16 11:24:10 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 11:24:10 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Special digest and real-time list Russ and Nige write: > Bill > I fail to see how this will help. Perhaps it is intended to wing up > more support from the RR/Disco/D90/D110 crowd? Sounds to me like more > gas on the fire. none Russ (and Nigel) you are missing the point. I switched to the digest when it first started, no problem the group was small and we all "knew" each other (remember back then ??) Now with all this flaming going on I *have* to wade through the lot to read what I want. Back to "real-time" mode and the big Delete key is there...... Thanks Bill, we'll see how it goes As I said once before these Series v's Defender/disco/RR really leave me out in the cold and feeling unloved... The series crowd wont have me 'coz I got a gas guzzling V8 and full time 4x4, the Defender/disco/RRFrom azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 16 08:59:46 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 08:59:46 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: 90s worst offroad failing? /Shortly thereafter the river disappeared. So we figured backtracking was the /most acceptable solution, and made for home. I had to keep up some speed /inthe sand river, and at one point there was a pretty serious thud. Back on /the dirt track I got out and saw what the problem was--I had bashed the tie /rods, and the front wheels were now both pointing outward. Kind of like the /reverse of being pigeon-toed. I have done this twice. Once on a stump in long grass, adn the other time parking on a verge when a buried rock spun up under the weight adn clobbered the rod. For a vehicle supposed to do serious offroad work, the 90 (and other coily LRs) has these rods in just about the most exposed position they could be. God knows what idiot 'designer' put em there! I now have a bashbar in front of em. Dont even THINK of going offroad in a coily without one. The Series' did at least get quite good protection from the leaf springs.......... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ---------------------- The new Aber automated news nazi gratuitously kicks out any posting with less new lines than old ones so there is little point in you reading this equally gratuitous waste of bandwidth to get the bugger to accept the posting --------------------------------- From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 16 09:08:38 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:08:38 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?) /For ultimate off-road ability (backwoods repairability notwithstanding) a /Defender 90 (I want one!!) Offroad triallers here prefer doing up old Series 1s. Smaller adn lighter. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. 1 3/4 tons is just too heavy for ultimate offroad abiity. Landrovers have got progressively heavier adn more cumbersome thru their development. I remember the hilarious blustering in LRO and other landrover-obsessed mags when the Suzi FJ410 first came out. There would be cracks like 'now you can get a towbar for you FJ, so now you CAN pull the skin off a rice pudding". After a few months these cracks went quiet, when it was noticed how the Suzis were pasting Landrovers in trials - they just skimmed disdainfully past sunk Landovers.......... If I was going onto hard hobbyist offroad, I'd probably get a Suzi. You can pretty much lift em out of trouble with a couple of freinds. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ---------------------- The new Aber automated news nazi gratuitously kicks out any posting with less new lines than old ones so there is little point in you reading this equally gratuitous waste of bandwidth to get the bugger to accept the posting --------------------------------- From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Feb 16 12:05:46 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 12:05:46 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Question about DI petrol engines.. I realise that this is not a *specific* LR question, but it does relate to engines, so if you'll indulge me: A friend and I have a disagreement about fuel injected petrol engines.. He says that they don't use spark plugs and I say that they do - is he right? I know that *diesels* use compression to ignite the fuel (and use glow plugs to preheat the fuel until the engine is running), but I thought that petrol injection was used to improve the fuel efficiency by more efficient delivery and improved fuel/air mixing. Are there any petrol engines that don't use spark plugs (once their running..)? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 16 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 16 Feb 95 08:57:42 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: D-90performance My Rovers North "Late Model Accessories" catalog just came in and they are selling Camel Trophy/Paris Dakar engines, brand new... yes, they are about $4k.for the shortblock, but it got me to thinking... Does anyone still carry performance parts for the old Buick 283, on which the L.R. V8's are based? Long throw cranks? Cams? Dare I ask, Superchargers?? Really just a mental exercise, I am not likely to tear into a new D90 any time soon, but I bet that V8 would run great with a 350 CFM Holly 4bbl, edelbrock manifold, crane cam and punched out to about 350 Cu inches. And it would be infinitely more repairable! Anyone want to brainstorm on this one? Cheers, R. P. Reid From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 16 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 16 Feb 95 09:33:42 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Adam: Try Rovers North in Vermont. (U.S) area code 802-879-0032. They do safari prep and send vehicles all over the world, so if a Disco skid plate is available, they'll find it for you. Given the conditions, how come a Disco, not a Defender or a 110 Wagon? Just wondering, they're all great, but I wondered what factors you took into account. Cheers, R. Pierce Reid '62 IIa 88 Military (soon) D90 From llevitt@idcresearch.com Thu Feb 16 09:56:13 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 09:56:13 EST From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Subject: LR marketing Gerry Mugele writes: > The real problem is the damn Marketing cruds at Land Rover North America that > are playing up the Status angle...and successfully getting market share by > charging too much. Uh, well, as a marketing guy I have to take you to task for this comment. IMCO, LR has built an enviable brand position with the Range Rover and is now leveraging that investment with reasonably priced products (for the most part) 1. Discovery - a great deal, beats the pants off *everything* else on the market, except its big brother. (Explorer - nah, GC -phfooey, Cruiser - getting there, but its $10-15K more expensive) 2. Range Rover (classic) - what else you gonna buy? A Cruiser? No class, no guts, no glory (no oil dripping ) 3. Range Rover (new) - what price perfection? 4. D 90 - a little pricey, I'd like to see it in the low $20s, but it ain't my shop. So here's the bottom line. For us LR newcomers, the product offerings don't seem unreasonable. And keep in mind that if the boys at Solihull *don't* turn a profit every couple of years the company simply won't be around. Then what would you do? Now if I were driving a '69 Volvo 140, bought new for $2,100 and kept on the road for the last 20 odd years with periodic infusions of oil and cash, I might be a little surprised at the pricing of the new Volvos, at 10 to 15 times the cost of the 140. But hey, that's life. Different strokes for different folks. Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com From Geir Harris Hedemark Thu Feb 16 16:23:34 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:23:34 +0100 From: Geir Harris Hedemark Subject: Bleeding LR Brakes and Clutch >From: Guy Arnold >On my recent overhaul with rebuilt master cyclinders and wheel >cyclinders I am having trouble getting all the air out of the system. >Is the answer alot of patience and try,try again? Any hints would be >appreciated. Basically, yes. I have a SIII 109" SW, and had the same problems last june. I solved the problem by getting help from a friend. He sat in the car, pumping the brake pedal as fast as possible while I refilled the reservoir as it emptied. I had already put a hose from the bleed nipple to a container. We used 3/4l of brake fluid on each front wheel and 1/2l for both rear wheels. That was probably much more than we needed to use, but we didn't want to have to repeat the whole procedure. If you can just get enough pressure into the system, you will get the air out. Keep pumping the pedal while someone closes the bleed nipple - and don't allow the reservoir level to drop too much, or you'll have to start all over again. :) Geir From Geir Harris Hedemark Thu Feb 16 16:29:14 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:29:14 +0100 From: Geir Harris Hedemark Subject: Re: throttle >From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" >Foolish me I just assumed hand throttles came as standard equipment on all >Land Rovers in NADA. I guess they didn't make the transistion to those new >fangled series III rigs. The SIII 2.25l diesel models at least had (have, I mean. :) a hand throttle. Geir From "Walter C. Swain" Thu Feb 16 07:35:39 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 07:35:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Question about DI petrol engines.. > I realise that this is not a *specific* LR question, but it does relate to > engines, so if you'll indulge me: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > He says that they don't use spark plugs and I say that they do - is he > right? Of course they do. A petrol engine is a petrol engine. Just the delivery method has changed, not the underlying conditions and theory. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW: 'SNOT-A-NADA Davis, CA USA or maybe 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW: 'SNOT-A-HEEP With appoligies to Steve Denis and all the NOTAJEEPs From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Feb 16 09:40:31 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 09:40:31 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: U.K. parts details In message Morgan Hannaford writes: > TeriAnn, > Through the grape-vine, and asking you about your gas tank, I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] > Cheers, and thanks in advance. > Morgan Morgan, I was in London on a business trip, had a few days extra and flew to Liverpool to visit Merseyside Land Rover services. I wanted to see the orginazation & get a feel for how things worked. While I was there I ordered: complete factory weather striping, both drive shafts, a front wing side (You might have noticed a lot of bondo on mine), a under seat petrol tank, a rear petrol tank, new air cleaner hose and some odds & ends. It cost me just under 600 pounds including shipping. Thats about the price a rear tank and rear drive shaft would have cost from Rovers North. The stuff was shipped air freight. I got a call from a freight forwarder. I had to go to the forwarder, pay them $40 cash, pick up some papers, go to the company who transported the stuff get more papers, go to customs, pay 3% import duty, get papers stamped, go back to the carrier & collect the goods. It took about 3 hours. The second time I made an order, I got new master clutch and brake cylinders, a new side curtain for the drivers door. I paid by credit card and had it shipped UPS. The credit card company takes care of the currency exchange for you, UPS takes care of of the customs for you and delivers to your door stop. Tips: UPS shipments from Europe are blue label only. So you get the part in two or three days, about half the time of getting ground shipments from the Eastern US. They take care of customs & you do not need to run down to the Airport. Air freight is cheaper, takes a lot longer, add $40 plus 3% plus gas to the shipping price for a compairison with UPS. The more parts you purchase at one time the more money you save. ie, shipping 2 parts in a box does not cost near as much as shipping 2 parts individually & so on. Deal with then over FAX. They may have problems with your accent, you may get lost in a heavy Scottish accent. If its in writing there is less chances of things going wrong. You can FAX them for current parts availability & price. The parts I recieved were genuine LR or OEM except for the petrol tank. Due to shipping costs, its often easier to write off a bad or wrong part than to pay to ship it back to get it replaced. That kind of thing is easier to deal with with a local company. Use a credit card in dealing with companys in different currency areas. The credit card company deals with the currency exchange. If you send them a check, you need to find a place that issues checks in other currencies. This can be a pain. -------------------- step 1 send a FAX itemizing what you want. Ask for return FAX with availablility including price delivered. step 2. send FAX with actual order and credit card number. step 3 if UPS wait for parts to show up on your door step else You will get FAX telling you parts have been shipped and name of carrier You will get contacted by a freight forwarder when the stuff arrives collect papers pay customs procedure end if Step 4 put parts on car ---------------- I'm planning some UK purchases in the early summer time frame...assuming Jim is tired of looking at my Land Rover by then. I was thinking of ordering parts from a couple of places. >From Bat Fastard, I was thinking of a new interior, including center council to replace the center seat and high seat backs with built in head rest. He also has spoke wheels at a good price and mine are bent. >From Merseyside, I was thinking of a complete new back door, with hinges seals & everything but no rear tyre mount. I also wanted to order a complete set of brake wheel cylinders, and shoes and the rubber flex hoses that fit at each end of the brake system. new wiper arms & blades, two new filler hoses for the under seat petrol tanks (mine are old & cracked. One leaks a little if overfilled) Things on my shopping list that I have not decided where to purchase them from yet: New wiring harness Military rear bumpers 4 aluminum sand ladders snorkle kit My Land Rover is in line behind my TR3 to get fixed up. The TR3 is in the paint shop now. When it comes out I will have most of her rebuild expenses paid and can start in on the Green Rover. I'll start off by doing some custom work on the hard top, replacing the bent panels on the front left wing, install my rear petrol tank, replace all the brakek system behind the master cylinder, modify the rear frame member so I can use a high lift jack at the rear corners & fit military style bumpers, install the rear door, and snorkle kit When the basic body work is done I will get her painted inside & out. Then I can put on the new weather stripping interior stuff, the exterior sun visor & other do dads. I think I can do it in such a way as to keep her on the road except for a weekend or two replacing the brake system, a couple of weekends on the wire harness and the time at the paint shop. I hope to end up with the kind of Land Rover Dixon hates, undented and completely painted...at least until the environment starts trying to scratch the paint off. I still have not completly decided on a colour. I like the "forest" she mostly is now, but Bronze green os a possibility and the nicest colour I have seen on a Land Rover is a light gray that was on a Land Rover that was a Scottys several months ago. Unfortunatly, i'm afraid that colour would make the Land Rover hard to see in a fog & I see a lot of fog If you decide to order from Merseyside far enough in the future (like May or Juneish), I might go in with you on the order. Take care TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From S|ren Vels Christensen Thu Feb 16 18:47:57 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 18:47:57 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: SIGN (response) WOW! What a response. People didn't flame me for putting a lump through the wire. Just friendly advise. Granville: we managed to get people out of the armchair. A few also suggested modifications. Dixon's spare wheel on the bonnet is obvious, -should have thought of that. Bill, -blowing up the oval and removing the letters won't get us further away from a license claim. Reproduction: For an experiment i whitened the camel coloured background and printed on the laser. Not bad if you don't stick your nose into the print. If reproduced on film or cloth it won't have this newspaperlike reolution of my HP 4L. Due to Bill's concern about copyrights i replaced the Landy logo. At first with two crossed crankhandles. That didn't look right so i replaced one crankhandle with a piece of broken electric wire with sparks. Looked a bit silly so i made a compass rose with a globe in the middle. I consider us all to be electronic circum navigators. I'm of course open to suggestions for replacements of the compass rose. But i draw the line at nude starlets. BTW, did i mention that i'm in the market for a water cooled mouse? I'm also looking forward to see Bill's oval. Lloyd Allison agreed to receive a UU'd copy for the web. And David Brown suggested that i uploaded to gate.srp.gov//pub but i'm stuck with Gopher. When i tried to "put" the file landed in my own directory with some tilde's added to it. I propably won't have the mods ready 'til after the weekend since i'm still struggling with the bloody exhaust. Now it's the first pipe. The idiot i bought the car from seems to have lost one of the brass nuts and put a steel one on instead... It seems like this sign thing is becoming a community project. Later sv/aurens From TIMAURAND@aol.com Thu Feb 16 13:32:50 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:32:50 -0500 From: TIMAURAND@aol.com Subject: Ranger Rover Insight I'm contemplating purchasing a 95 Range Rover. Any insight available from the newsgroup? (Pros, cons, prices, etc.) timaurand@aol.com From "John R. Benham" Thu Feb 16 10:38:12 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 10:38:12 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Rovers in Nat. Geo. Mag Dear LRO's, I'm reading a book called `Cry of the Kalahari' by Mark and Delia Owens. While reading, I remembered a story featuring them in an older National Geographic Magazine. So I started to peruse through our collection. I didn't found their article, but did find some interesting articles on Botswana and other countries in Africa having Rover photos. I will share them with you: 1. December, 1990: Botswana, Okavango Delta, p. 52 features a large cab forward - almost looking like it is articulated! It's been modified for tourists. Here they are looking at giraffes. 2. May, 1986: The Serengeti, p. 591 shows a yellow 109 pickup with soft top hoops - back filled with native poachers. Caption sez that "Tanzania's antipoaching campaign lacks funds to fix and replace patrol vehicles"! I don't know, but this Rover looks a lot better than most I've seen here in the US! There are of course many other photos of Rovers in the National Geographic. If it is of any interest to anyone, I will continue to post more findings. Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA, 88 `Bwana Mobile' From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Thu Feb 16 13:41:45 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:41:45 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Lightweights Pierce Reid writes: > There is a gut up near Cleveland (Bob Stall) who has a gorgeous > lightweight.... Do you mean Robert Stull? His lightweight took the "most functional" award at the Mid-Atlantic Rover rally...and rightly so. I think that categories like "most functional" (or "biggest winch" for that matter) are far more suited to Land Rovers than "peoples' choice" where the best paint job always wins. A few years ago, some bloke got the 'choice' award at the Atlantic British event. You could comb your hair in the reflection off the frame rails...but when it came to four wheelin', he rode with someone else. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Feb 16 10:58:50 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 10:58:50 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Ranger Rover Insight Lucky lad -- go right ahead! John Brabyn 89RR From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Thu Feb 16 13:42:05 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:42:05 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Land Rover 2.6 liter 6 cylinder Please direct all inquiries to the phone number below- Rover 6 cylinder 2.6 liter engine for sale from 1967 109 engine is British issue not NADA 150,000 + miles ring job 40,000 miles ago $300 or best offer For more info call Steve Neil (415) 681-9415 From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Thu Feb 16 20:10:22 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:10:22 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: U.K. parts details Re: Merseyside: > They may have problems with your accent, you may get > lost in a heavy Scottish accent. If its in writing there is less chances of > things going wrong. You can FAX them for current parts availability & price. Scottish ? Um. NOT ! Well, there may be a scot there, but more likely you got a heavy liverpudian accent or a just a nice 'rich' Lancs. accent. I do agree with terri ann in that written faxes are much easier than phoning (at least that was my experience before leaving the states). There is one Scottish accent that is a bit rough, but in general, I find the various Scottish dialects to be much more flowing and pleasing to the ear (like some of the Irish accents) than the accents from brimingham, and liverpool/manchester. The surrounding Lancs. and further east Yorks. accents took me quite a while to get used. One of the men at work, his wife is from up by Yarm, and I had the most difficulty understanding her, until after I spent August Bank Holiday up with the Pennine LRC at Tong. By the end of the weekend I could pretty much understand what was said. And truth be told, I've been told that I talk funny, so to speak. One of the Pennine men was trying to find out where I was from, and asked me what club I belonged to, and I told 'em Southern, and he didn't believe me, 'cause I certianly didn't have the right accent. I showed 'im my car and don't ya know they talk funny down there ? And he said, yeah, but not as funny as you. :-) (And, if you're in the West, the subtle difference of the morning diet will undoubtedly be lost on you, but it'd be much more polite to order a 'full Welsh Breakfast' than a full English one...) signed, new yorker in england, Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Spenny@aol.com Thu Feb 16 15:19:38 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:19:38 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: message john any sign of the superbase ad? < Dec 1994 issue of "PC MAGAZINE". Do you mean the Superbase ad on p.241-242 Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Spenny@aol.com Thu Feb 16 15:19:32 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:19:32 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Grill(e)ing Gordon writes snip... You can't cook your trout on a Series III grill! snip... I have always wanted to do this, but isnt the galvanised bad for you? I know it is toxic when welded. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Thu Feb 16 20:24:06 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:24:06 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: SIGN (response) >I'm also looking forward to see Bill's oval. Well, I did a rather crufty cut and past job, to see what I could do. I used your L/R logo, and blew it up to get a larger one (bug didn't clean up the edges), I chopped out the rover images and found a similar font, but it doesn't have the subtle 'serifs' of the actual land-rover logo lettering. My image is definitly not as 'clean' or polished as S|ren's, and after having a crack at it, I'll say I'm actually more fond of his :-) Both S|ren's and my images are available via major domo, both are split into four parts, and are uu-encoded JPEG type images For S|ren's plaque, send majordomo the following text (in one letter) get lro-digest lro-plaque.jpg.uu.aa get lro-digest lro-plaque.jpg.uu.ab get lro-digest lro-plaque.jpg.uu.ac get lro-digest lro-plaque.jpg.uu.ad For the oval which I did, send majordomo: get lro-digest lro-oval.jpg.uu.aa get lro-digest lro-oval.jpg.uu.ab get lro-digest lro-oval.jpg.uu.ac get lro-digest lro-oval.jpg.uu.ad If you want both, send all eight lines to majordomo in one message. Try to send requests of this nature to him in the off-hours. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From William Caloccia Thu Feb 16 15:48:44 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 15:48:44 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Comic Relief... (UK) For those of you familliar with the concept, alas, no smashed tomato's for your car's grille this year. Instead they're doing 'clown' noses for your motor (from Shell stations GBP 1.50, of which at least GBP 1.0 goes to the charity) Additionally, clown noses are available for people from BK and WH Smiths, etc. The noses are Red and turn purple at 4C, as a warning of potential black Ice. Top Gear is giving away a clown beetle, and they review the Triumph Thunderbird a harley killer for the UK.. -B From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 16 15:54:54 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:54:54 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Grill(e)ing On Thu, 16 Feb 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote: > You can't cook your trout on a Series III grill! > I have always wanted to do this, but isnt the galvanised bad for you? > I know it is toxic when welded. none I don't know about eating off the grille, but cooking on the grille is a definite bad idea. From C Taylor Sutherland III Thu Feb 16 15:55:40 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:55:40 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: roll bars Delimma: want to switch between hard top in winter to soft top in spring, summer, fall, but with a soft top, I want a roll bar, but I can't have a roll bar and still have a hard top on an 88" SIIA, can I? I know soft tops can get cold in the winter, but I am in S.C. so cold isn't unbearable cold for very long if I get the better heater, right? Can anybody speak from experience? Dumb question: how much water leaks in through the soft top? gallons? occasional drip? occasional drip right in the ear or between the eyes? :) It's not that I'm afraid of a little water; I just want to know what to expect...never driven a truck with a rag top. Ok, if I don't get the roll bar and opt for switching in the respective season, how hard is it to flip a 88" SIIA? I mean, without rolling down ditches that would shame the Grand Canyon... more annoying questions Taylor From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 16 16:22:09 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:22:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: roll bars On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: > Delimma: want to switch between hard top in winter to soft top in > spring, summer, fall, but with a soft top, I want a roll bar, but I > can't have a roll bar and still have a hard top on an 88" SIIA, can I? Get a military rollbar. Fits under the hard top. > I know soft tops can get cold in the winter, but I am in S.C. so cold > isn't unbearable cold for very long if I get the better heater, right? South Carolina? Worried about the cold? Your standard Smiths will do just fine. They only leak if they have holes or are imporperly installed From Russell Burns Thu Feb 16 13:36:37 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 13:36:37 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: roll bars Get a D-90... Russ > Delimma: want to switch between hard top in winter to soft top in > spring, summer, fall, but with a soft top, I want a roll bar, but I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > more annoying questions > Taylor From Craig Murray Fri Feb 17 8:56:41 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 8:56:41 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Question about DI petrol engines.. Ian Stuart writes: > I realise that this is not a *specific* LR question, but it does relate to > engines, so if you'll indulge me: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > efficient delivery and improved fuel/air mixing. > Are there any petrol engines that don't use spark plugs (once their > running..)? Ian, your mate is an idoit, no offence intended, just remind him that a diesel motors has about three times the compression of a petrol motor so that it can use them compression to ignite the diesel, so they still use the good old spark plug, which does mean that fuel injected petrol motor can still get wet ignition!! P.S. It is great to be back on the interactive list!!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Charlie Wright Thu Feb 16 22:05:37 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:05:37 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: U.K. parts details On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > Re: Merseyside: > > They may have problems with your accent, you may get > > lost in a heavy Scottish accent. If its in writing there is less chances of > Scottish ? Um. NOT ! > Well, there may be a scot there, but more likely you got a heavy liverpudian > accent or a just a nice 'rich' Lancs. accent. I do agree with terri ann none snip > And truth be told, I've been told that I talk funny, so to speak. One of the > Pennine men was trying to find out where I was from, and asked me what club [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > they talk funny down there ? And he said, yeah, but not as funny as you. > :-) > signed, new yorker in england, > Pennine men was trying to find out where I was from, and asked me what club You can be sure a Texan in Cambridge gets some cocked heads. After four years here and a while in Edinburgh my accent's as muddled as anyone who tries to understand me... I thoroughly confused the nice chaps at Binbrook motors (Lincolnshire) last rebuild ;-)... we too resorted to the FAX. Charlie Texas-expat. C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Thu Feb 16 23:18:20 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:18:20 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: roll bars >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:17:50 +0100 >To:C Taylor Sutherland III [ truncated by lro-digester (was 58 lines)] >and cover the fundamental protection required, but are probably not as modern >as those required by some of the other sanctioning bodies. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 16 19:14:14 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 19:14:14 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: roll bars Taylor... The canvas top, if in good shape and properly fitted, won't leak except maybe at the back. The hoop kit (the metal parts that support the canvas) includes metal pieces with rubber weatherstripping that frame the top and rear edges of the door. As to heat, well, considering that most older Land Rovers don't have much in the line of heat you're not going to be that much warmer with the hard top. I live in "upstate" New York, where it gets pretty damm cold.. not quite Canadian "artic" conditions, but it feels like it! I usually run my Ser III with canvas in the summer and a hardtop in the winter but one winter I kept the canvas on. I really didn't notice that much differance in heat, but I did spend lots of time clearing snow off the roof! Can't help with the roll bar fitting questions.. never had one. Cheers Mike From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 16 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 16 Feb 95 19:37:27 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: ARO--Now Another LR Wannabe > According to the AP reporter, "The vehicles resemble an older model > Land Rover, with a boxy shape and upright stands. Both fit and finish are They *what* ??? Even from 1/2 mile distance through thick fog an ARO doesn't even remotely resemble a Land Rover, old or new. Call it a 'Gulash-Rover' if you will- but, no, it doesn't look like a Rover, not even from underneath. From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 16 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 16 Feb 95 19:37:23 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Lodes & Cheweys On Land Rovers test track on the Eastnor estate Bill M. surmises: >Lode Lane would be foolish to create a test track that their vehicles could >not navigate. I would suspect that the water runs/mud bogs have a rock/gravel >foundation, as most of the off road schools do. If they didn't, they would ... snip ... > The idea would be to demonstrate the limits of what the vehicle could do ... snip ... > ... snip ... Just speculation on my part. I can confirm your speculation. I had the opportunity myself to drive the Eastnor test track in my 109 by courtesy of Major Harvey-Bathurst, landlord of Eastnor Castle, during the 1993 ARC National Rally that was held there. Also among the 'chosen few' to do this test drive was none other than John Hong and a couple of guys from BSROA in a rented brand-new snow-white Defender 110 (bet they didn't tell the rental agency what they were up to...) In fact they were driving right in front of me all the time. The track was indeed 'passable', even after two days of rain, and none of the drivers or models, Series or otherwise, had much of a problem going thru, even with road tires - except for one or two drivers who obviously had no practical offroad experience (like slamming on the brakes when descending a steep rutted slippery path - one way to go tobboganning in summer). Ok, there was one rather lengthy bog to go thru where the muddy water reached up to my door handles; but if you kept the correct speed with a nice little bow wave, no problem. And like you said, you always eventually found firm ground before the diff touched anything. Cleverly made; there was remarkably little winching and recovery. Still, not entirely for the faint-hearted. Pinstripes, dints from knocking trees, ripped off mud flaps, lost RR bumper caps and spoilers, clogged radiators and muddy soaked floor carpets were free for all, and everyone got his fair share. And please, will the guy who filmed me d(r)iving thru that water hole from the back of the white 'Official American Delegation' Defender finally send me that particular video clip, digitize and e-mail it to me, or give it to someone who'll attend this years' Rally - I just *gotta have it* ! Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 16 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 16 Feb 95 19:37:36 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR mpg - old vs. new > ... snip ... The big heavy 4 door EFI's are lucky to get > 18mpg, worse for > 3.5 engines. My light little 2-dr (;-)) gets > 20mpg+ on Stombergs. A lot of people over here in UK know that. Well, yes, the 'long' RR EFI is quite a heavy beast, but on the straight and even the weight shouldn't make that much a difference. And I agree that an impeccably tuned carbed engine - and yours obviously is - can deliver at least the mileage of 'electric-gizmo-ignition', be it EFI, Lumenition, 'Jacobs' or whatever. But let's be honest: Most V8s of old RR are in a sad state, and the half-dozen owners of pre-1980 RRs that I know personally are forever lamenting about mileages at around 12-15 mpg, the exception being those who tend to their carbs and distributors on a regular basis. With an EFI, you buy it (or rebuild it in my case), close the bonnet and forget it for the next couple of years without suffering the slightest loss of performance or mileage. Also lets not forget that the EFI, with the same displacement and for the same mileage, gives you an additional 35 hp just on the side. I personally *average* 16-18mpg, with 3/4 being down-town or short-haul traffic and regular towing of a 1.3-ton trailer. When loafing along the autobahn in 5th gear at 115 km/h and barely 2,800rpm mileage improves to around 20mpg - but a must admit I run 235/85 tires... and, the engine was only recently completely rebuilt. Anyway, the bottom line is that *even if* you get a better mileage from EFI, it's absolutely pointless and uneconomical to convert a carb V8 to EFI - you (or the vehicle) will never live to recover the costs. I rest my case. Stefan From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 16 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 16 Feb 95 19:58:12 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Eastnor In 1976 i was a visitor to the National Rally at eastnor, and a couple or three times since. I was also at the launch of the 110 in the early 80's On 2 or 3 occasions i have been able to take my 88 diesel around the area that LR do their testing. This is NOT a man made test area in the way that pehaps some of these off road training centres are , even the Lode Lane place. I know because I have both towed and been towed for recovery in some of the places. Parts are rutted and the last visit was difficult for my 88 ( 7.50 tyres) because most of the ruts had been made by coil sprung vehicles which do not have leaf springs hanging under the axles, my motor was therfore left bellied several times when i was unable to maintain sufficient speed It is alsodifficult for man to make trees and tree stumps etc. The area is very good for off road testing and the estate a very good venue for rover gatherings,the owner, Major Hervey - Bathurst has been good friend to the lr movement over the years as host and president of the Midland ROC. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Sanna@aol.com Thu Feb 16 20:44:23 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:44:23 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Newf An enormous black dog that can weigh better than 200 lbs. that drools gallons of slobber in hot weather down the back seat back from the rear of your wagon. They were originally used as walking life-preservers. From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Thu Feb 16 17:53:11 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 17:53:11 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Hubs,Health! Last fall, one of the locking plates spun off my left hub and I wasn't able to find a used or wrecked hub to replace it. I'm too cheap to buy a new hub because it missing a $1 part, so I made one. Inevitably, however, it unlocks when I need it most. Is there anyone who has a wrecked Warn hub that still has the locking plate that they would be willing part with? >On a serious note, emulating Pete Wilfords cartoon character and cooking using >a ser 1 /2 front grille on an open fire is not recommende. In fact it is >extemely dangerous. The zinc galvanising will burn of and the fumes are >Hazardous to ones health, can't comment about the possibility of zinc poisoning Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this? I thought that Zinc was good for you! Someone tell me you've done this for 30 years and you're fine! I'm a little worried! :-o Gord From Steven M Denis Thu Feb 16 21:36:23 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:36:23 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Question about DI petrol engines.. OK Boss...no petrol DI (Direct Injection) engines...You are correct as to the use of fuel injection...closer metering of fuel with the possibility of a simple feedback system to monitor exhaust content...but it's gunna have plugs....on 2nd thought there are experimental direct injection petrol jpobs...but theser are knowen as stratified chared engines and you will not see one in andy sort of normal car...amd they *still* have plugs....most fuel injection engines are electronic or a "semi-mechanical system.....the mechaincal systems were the Kugernfischer (now built by Bosch) usen on the BMW 200Tii and the early "S" 911 Porsche....huh...the gullwing merecedes *might* have been direct (cyliner vs. port) injection .....but it too had plugs....well 'nuff said...he buys! steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Steven M Denis Thu Feb 16 21:59:17 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:59:17 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: winch stuff.... Umm sorry folks but someone wanted the directions for the Koeing winches and I could only find the one set (the front mounted one ?) and now I've located both types and I don't remenber who it was that wanted it! the mind is a terrible thing to..to...Drat! what was I going to say?...... steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Thu Feb 16 23:13:08 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:13:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: New Landy pricing... Howdy, fellow roverphiles, Just wondering if I can get some comparative prices from around the country for a '94 or '95 Disco, Base model on up to top of the line. My Roommate is looking into the SUV market and I am trying to convince him that it is worth the few extra dollars for the Landy of his chosen Nissan Pathfinder. Any info on either truck would be much appreciated. thnx in advance. steve swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From CTPJ@aol.com Thu Feb 16 23:28:47 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:28:47 -0500 From: CTPJ@aol.com Subject: Re:Letter from Tanzania I would like to see someone make that trip in a Grand Cherokee or Explorer and get out alive! That is what made the Disco 4X4 of the Year and what makes it a Land Rover. So to all those who say it is overpriced and quirky, I just hope they appreciate me coming down the trail when they need to be unstuck. Todd Jenkins 1995 Disco From "S. F. Yee" Thu Feb 16 20:34:15 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:34:15 -0800 (PST) From: "S. F. Yee" Subject: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future Hello -- I'm seriously thinking of purchasing a *used* Range Rover, circa 1989-91, with < 75,000 miles. My questions to you folks: what kind of Maintenance can I expect? Will I have some big ticket items like a new transmission or differentials to consider? How much is this gonna cost me? As long as I know what I'm getting myself into, expense is no (big) problem (I think). I love RRs but a good used one is all I can afford now. A bit about myself: married, son 21 mos. old, lives in Marin County Calif., and plans to embark on off-road vacations all around the state and western U.S., not just to the freakin shopping mall! A trusty but aging Honda Accord (!) serves as my current set of wheels. After this rather wet spell here (rain, flooding) it's been decided to move on up to an RR over some minivan. Thanks in advance for all your advise. --S.F. From David John Place Thu Feb 16 23:38:32 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:38:32 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Find Bill Lang Does anyone out there in the U.S. know Bill Lang. He is formaly of Canada and he drives a very modified Ser III with chrome diamond plate floor and Chev V6 engine. The vehicle is right hand drive white in colour. I would like to say hi to him but have lost contact since he moved somewhere in the Kansas area. Dave VE4PN From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Feb 16 22:26:26 1995 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:26:26 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Grill(e)ing >>Gordon writes: >>You can't cook your trout on a Series III grill! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >I know it is toxic when welded. >Spenny@aol.com I think Spenny, that Gordon is refering to the plastic Series III grill --Michael cs@crl.com (gee.. I hope I wrote more lines in the reply than in were in the quotation!) From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Fri Feb 17 08:42:22 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 08:42:22 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Lorry marketing > are playing up the Status angle...and successfully getting market share by > charging too much. / /Uh, well, as a marketing guy I have to take you to task for this comment. /IMCO, LR has built an enviable brand position with the Range Rover and is now /leveraging that investment with reasonably priced products (for the most part) When LR opened up in the States, I was gobsmacked at the prices. Having just been there adn noticed how everything (vehicles included) cost half as much, it was astonishing to see that LRs cost half as much AGAIN as here! And that 90s which are work tools (like shovels) here, are status symbols there! They'd have to be - no-one but an obsessive would buy one at those prices, relative to the competition! (LR are having hard time with teh Japs here, where the Jap stuff is only slightly cheaper.......) The marketingprats have made a great job of convincing everyone that a sow's ear is a silk purse. I guess LR are laughing all the way to the bank. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Mike Rooth Fri Feb 17 9:06:49 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 9:06:49 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: LR on TV Tonite Just in case the UK contingent havent noticed yet,the BBC2 series "The Cars The Star" returns tonight at 10.10pm featuring,this week,the Land Rover. Whoever it is doing the Famous Owners List,can add Tom Conti and his 107" Station Wagon. I'll tape this one as well, I think! Cheers Mike Rooth PS Sorry Bill,I've forgotten the magic formula to limit to UK only. From "Eric Desmond (III)" Fri Feb 17 10:24:46 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:24:46 GMT From: "Eric Desmond (III)" Subject: New Boy! Hello chaps! I thought a quick intro would be good. I'm a computer science student at DMU. Roger, my SIIA was, sob, sold recently. I'm saving up for a 90 TurboDiesel or even Tdi. Thoughts about these cars would be good. The main use would be for some off-roading but also the 100mile trip back home to sunny Skegness. I have a 91 metro at the moment, and it is not the same (Not 4wd for a start...). Lincolnshire Land Rover and Leicester + Rutland (soon) have the pleasure of having me as a member. Thanks Eric Desmaond. From Steve Firth Fri Feb 17 12:08:05 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:08:05 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Question about DI petrol engines.. Ian Stuart asked.... >A friend and I have a disagreement about fuel injected petrol engines.. >He says that they don't use spark plugs and I say that they do - is he >right? My other car has GTi written on the back, it uses spark plugs and has Bosch fuel injection. I guess that settles it. >Are there any petrol engines that don't use spark plugs (once their >running..)? Several, but none I think in current use on vehicles. I can remember in a copy of "Braithwaites Retrospectives in Surgery, 1910" a description of the ideal car for a country doctor. They recommended it should have an evaporating wick carburettot and a hot-tube ignition system. These were platinum tubes, heated initially by burning petrol in a tray under the end of the tube, then heated by the combustion in the engine to provide a "glow" source of ignition in subsequent power cycles. Apparently the clever doctor keeps the tubes in the grill pan of the oven on a low heat to ensure that theya re always ready for use. Some stationary low compresion petrol engines used as sources of power in workshops and for generators used a pilot light with a sliding valve to convey a "box of flame" from the pilot light to the cylinder. -- Steve Firth '81 SIII 109" 2.25 petrol Safari. From Charlie Wright Fri Feb 17 12:04:07 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:04:07 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Pathfinder vs. Discovery This is from experience, but I don't want to start another mindless "mine's better" exchange. Just my 2 cents (pence) worth. I have a tatty 1970 109 diesel Landrover here in Britain. My brother has a 1987 V6 Pathfinder (black on black with extra buttons and black indicators that light up black on a black dashboard... ;-)) in Austin, Texas. You couldn't make me trade with him for the world. The Pathfinder is very 'pretty' and is fine for cruising 6th Street, but take it off road at your own risk (I have... and that was just to get 'round some traffic... big mistake). Now extrapolate my 25 year old 109 to a 1995 Discovery, and if I had the cash, I wouldn't think twice about the Pathfinder. In fact, if I didn't have the cash (as I don't) I wouldn't think twice about the Pathfinder. I'd buy another Series IIa. Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From Mike Rooth Fri Feb 17 12:40:28 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:40:28 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Pathfinder vs. Discovery Er,Charlie, Whats a Pathfinder? Cheers Mike Rooth From Easton Trevor Fri Feb 17 08:26:00 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 08:26:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Weber carb slow running Miss Golightly, my 1962 88 SWB has a Weber carb on her 2324cc (+0.030) engine and I have a problem with the slow running mixture. Adjustment of the idle setting doesn't produce any significant changes in idle speed. Even screwing it right in won't stop the engine, it just stalls if the throttle is opened slowly, therefore I think its too weak here.Turning the screw out three turns results in no change in speed until I step on the brake and then the rush of air from the servo (Leaks?) causes an increase in speed, so it must be too rich at this setting. Disconnection of the vacuum line to the servo and plugging it makes no difference. A vacuum gauge holds a steady reading as the screw is turned in and out. How do I find the correct setting? Anyone else have the same problem? Suggestions Please.(Normal operation is fine whatever the setting. Loads of torque, good performance (Roverwise) and good gas mileage. Ignition is Crane Allison electronic and set at 4.5 before TDC) From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 17 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 17 Feb 95 09:31:16 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Grilling on the Grille >> Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this? >> I thought that Zinc was good for you! Someone tell me you've done this >> for 30 years and you're fine! I'm a little worried! :-o I am not a doctor but I play one on tv.... The Zinc is not the problem, and is a mineral that is good for health (and for keeping the yang up, to quote the chinese). However, Zinc Oxide is another matter. Zinc oxide is created when zinc is exposed to the air and is quite nasty, from what I understand. Like any metal, zinc is shiny when first exposed, but quickly dulls to a light, mottled gray as oxide forms. The oxide coating the grille would make it inadvisable for cooking... You get a lot of zinc in oysters, BTW (which is why they have the reputation they do, or at least so I have read.) Cheers, R. P. Reid From JFisk1120@aol.com Fri Feb 17 09:54:44 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:54:44 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: Pacing the floor! Marcus.....anxiously awaiting the arrival of our latest Rover addition!! Can't wait! Jan Fisk "I brake for mud puddles" Springfield, Missouri 1964 Land Rover 1991 Range Rover and...TBA!!!!! From Sanna@aol.com Fri Feb 17 10:06:57 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:06:57 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?) Real Rovers have metal dashboards! From Russell U Wilson Fri Feb 17 10:06:55 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:06:55 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille On 17 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > >> Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this? > >> I thought that Zinc was good for you! Someone tell me you've done this [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > zinc is shiny when first exposed, but quickly dulls to a light, mottled gray as > oxide forms. The oxide coating the grille would make it inadvisable for > cooking... Not to be too much of a smart ass but....any of you folks ever hear of this great new thing called aluminium foil?? It works great! ;) cooking trout on the '67 IIa grill (with aluminium foil) Russ From "DAVE MCKAIN" Fri Feb 17 10:23:16 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:23:16 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Zinc Oxide/Rochester Grilling on the Grill? I know three things for sure. 1) Zinc oxide is the stuff you put on your nose to help keep it from geeting sunburnt. 2) Zinc vapors can be hazardous to your health if inhaled (as Slick Willy) 3) The temperature of you cooking fire and the presence of oxygen will probably result in the rapid oxidation of the zinc and not the release of zinc fumes to the atmosphere. Question? I have a Rochester 1 bbl carb-u-rator (UK) on my 2 1/4 liter petrol (aftermarket I guess) and would like to get any comments on performance (hp, not economy - gas is cheap in the US) vs. the Zenith, Weber and Solex Carb-er-rater (US). David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From Sanna@aol.com Fri Feb 17 10:35:10 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:35:10 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Rag Tops >> I know soft tops can get cold in the winter, but I am in S.C. so cold >> isn't unbearable cold for very long if I get the better heater, right? I live in Wisconsin (-100 WC last winter) and have driven nothing but a canvas top for 25 years. It was freezing with the old Smiths heater, but 5 years ago I installed a Mansfield from Rover's North. It's a regular furnace. Perfectly adequate for serious sub-zero weather. The only chill you'll have will be from direct -50 drafts blowing through the cracks on the side of your head. You'll break a sweat with one in the Carolina's. From William Dan Terry Fri Feb 17 10:28:59 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 10:28:59 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: Re: D-90 performance Pierce, Look to TVR Engineering Ltd in Blackpool, England. TVR is a handbuilt sportscar, very capable, very fun. Been around about as long as LR. Had a '74 as my only car for a few years. They have been using the Rover V8 for their cars for some 10 years. They have gotten very good at modifying them. I've even seen an ad in a Brit car zine where you can get a RR with a TVR done engine. They've gotten the engine out to 4.9 liters and 300bhp. There is also one aftermarket supercharger called Sprintex (if I remember) which works well on the Rover V8. It's a screw type compressor (two giant screw-like shafts side by side so that the threads "mesh" with each other), very low profile. Would fit under the hood I think. Peace, Bill _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu Fri Feb 17 10:55:56 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:55:56 -0500 From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu Subject: RR EFI and bad seats >I have a 1988 Range Rover and the EFI light has come on. >Also do the power seats have anytype of manual override. Guy, My 87 has had the seat problem. Its usually just the switch. Most of the time relatively violent operation on the switch 10 to 20 times corrects the problem. I have taken the switch apart once and sprayed it with electronic contact cleaner. It hasn't failed since. I'm sure you can disconnect the wires and figure out which ones you have to connect to each other to move the seat. A wiring diagram would come in handy if you can get one. There is no manual method that I know of. When mine went bad, my 5 year old son was playin with the seat and raked it all the way forward, making it impossible for a grown-up to fit in. I got mad at the switch at that point and punched it with my fist! That worked! The EFI light will come on for quite a few reasons having to do with the EFI system. There's a complex balance of resistances from various sensors that are required for EFI to work. almost any of them could turn the light on. First thing is to check electrical connections. Unfortunately, the best way to find the problem is to go to a dealer, (or make friends with a dealer mechanic) and have them plug in the little diagnostic computer to your brain. It tells them where to look and how to fix it. I think this is cheating! That device works so well I think it should be included in a standard RR owners tool kit! Michael Yablonski (E-mail harold_wanebo@brown.edu) Pascoag, RI '87 RR From Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu Fri Feb 17 11:14:21 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:14:21 -0500 From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu Subject: Camel Trophy I'm relatively new on the digest and i've read quite a few stories about this Camel Trophy. Can someone tell me what it is and what it is all about? Some history maybe? thanx Michael Yablonski (e-mail harold_wanebo@brown.edu) Pascoag, RI '87 RR From Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu Fri Feb 17 11:15:56 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:15:56 -0500 From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu Subject: re:re:why a LR Richard, Just wanted to say high. There must be some similarity between people at a genetic level that determines what they drive. My first car was a '62 healey 3000 which I restored then drove to death. I sold it cheap and about 6 years later saw it on the road again!. I knew it was mine cause the carpets matched my dad's kitchen, and the lousy welding job I did after breaking a rear leaf spring which came up thru the floor behind the passenger seat. It was in a parking lot and I just had to look. My two present vehicles are '87 Range Rover and '89 Volvo. Michael Yablonski (e-mail harold_wanebo@brown.edu) Pascoag Rhode Island, USA From S|ren Vels Christensen Fri Feb 17 17:15:28 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:15:28 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote: -------[snip]------------ > Germany, Italy, South Africa and UK. Which begs the question: why isn't > OVLR fielding a team?! And our friends from Oz? And Soren Aurens, the > one-man Danish team? You guys would have the edge -- most Camel --------[snip]------ > T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA > http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) Two good reasons: 1. Proffesional soldiers cannot participate. 2. For a guy who thinks that the interior extravaganza of a 110 looks like a whorehouse, driving a disco would be a luxury cruise. (Easy to say with ref. to no. 1 :-) Honest, - could be fun though. sv/aurens From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 17 08:21:38 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 08:21:38 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Newf In message <950216202503_23755259@aol.com> writes: > An enormous black dog that can weigh > better than 200 lbs. that drools gallons of slobber in hot weather down the > back seat back from the rear of your wagon. They were originally used as > walking life-preservers. Wait a minute! A Newfie is more like a Great Pyrenese who came out the wrong colour and has more of a likeing for water than a Pyr should. Think of a very nice friendly black long hair dog, males about 125 to 145 pounds, just an average size dog. They, like Pyrs drool a little, but nowhere as much as say a Saint. Where Pyrs are livestock gard dogs, the Newfies are water dogs. Newfies are Black, and the Pyr, a parent breed of the Newfie, is white. They don't drool a ton, they aren't enormous, they don't weigh 200 pounds. Geeesh ... My Pyr is the shortest dog I have ever owned. They & Newfies are just average size very friendly dogs. It just happens that both Breeds fit into Land Rovers very well and don't quite fit into small cars. They are great to take on Land Rover trips. Last couple of years you would have found both a Newfie & a Pyr at the Portland All British Meet. They were essentual for keeping the bones from piling up too high during the rib banquet. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 11:38:46 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?) On Fri, 17 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: > Real Rovers have metal dashboards! Wouldn't "real" Rovers pertain to the P3, P4, P5 etc? Not sure which of those had metal dashes... I always thought the TC-2000 was pretty neat, though some of the older ones had some rather nice styling. From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 17 12:02:09 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:02:09 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Zinc Gordon Rea wrote: >Is there an MD on this list that can confirm this? I thought that Zinc >was good for you! In trace ammounts...like a dozen Chincoteague oysters on the half shell...now that will put lead in you Eberhart-Faber. However, zinc fumes and most metal dusts are quite toxic. Welding galvanized steel (without ventilation) will lead to a case of "metal fume fever" AKA "the smelter shakes". I have seen a video of some Australian bush rat cooking over his IIa grille, but he was boiling something in a billy, not grilling his food, and from the blackened look of the grille (or what was left of it) there wasn't much zinc remaining. Bon appetit. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 17 09:12:40 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:12:40 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille > You get a lot of zinc in oysters, BTW (which is why they have the reputation > they do, or at least so I have read.) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Cheers, > R. P. Reid Yeh, I had a dozen oysters last night, but only 11 of them worked. R, bg From Morgan Hannaford Fri Feb 17 09:23:27 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:23:27 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille > Not to be too much of a smart ass but....any of you folks ever hear of > this great new thing called aluminium foil?? It works great! ;) Hold it! I'm no doctor, but I own a Land Rover so I must know something. Doesn't aluminum (-inium for the retentive) cause, er, uh, it is linked with some, er, anheiser? no wait, alsheim? well, some disease but I forget what it was. Where are my keys? Cheers, ????????? > cooking trout on the '67 IIa grill > (with aluminium foil) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > (with aluminium foil) > Russ From "John R. Benham" Fri Feb 17 09:23:17 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:23:17 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Snorkel TeriAnn has on her wish list a raised air intake snorkel. Here is my experience: Two days ago I received a snorkel kit from `Mantec' out of Wawickshire. I installed it last night and all in all it came out pretty good. It is designed to be held by two supplied brackets on the windshield frame and the ridgid tube slips directly into the fender well. I drilled and tapped through the upper frame and used the windshield hinge bolt for the other support. However, on my Rover and possible others, the right side fender well is incumberred with the heater blower, intake, and output hoses. So I modified it were the ridgid tube is about 6" above the fender and I used MANTEC's flex-tube at 2-90 degree turns to come into the fender just forward of all of the heater junk. It took about an hour to install. Now I have to modify the oil bath filter to accept the flex-tube. This will not be hard since I had to cut a 6" piece of the ridgid tube due to it's increased height from my modification. A friend can braze this piece onto the oil bath air cleaner and it will join with the inner fender flex tube very nicely. The cost was L 110.64 plus L 40.26 shipping (x 1.57 = $236.91US). British Pacific charges $300., but their kit is designed to come into the hood. I like the fender well entrance better since you don't have to dissasymble anything if you want to remove the hood. Also, I think it looks better than the hood entrance type, but that is purely subjective. If this setup appeals to you TeriAnn or any othe LRO, give Neal a FAX at Mantec: 011.44.1203.395368 (both tel. & FAX). They call it a `Raised Air Intake Kit'. Also, they don't accept charge cards. It was sent to me without payment and now I have to find someone to draft an international check! Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile' Land Rover Questions From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 13:18:16 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:18:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Grilling on the Grille On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Morgan Hannaford wrote: > Hold it! I'm no doctor, but I own a Land Rover so I must know something. > Doesn't aluminum (-inium for the retentive) cause, er, uh, it is linked > with some, er, anheiser? no wait, alsheim? well, some disease but I forget > what it was. Where are my keys? Alzhiemers (ie or ei?) & it doesn't matter. However, if you wish to discuss American spelling novelties, I'd be happy to do so in mail though you might want to read up on the American Spelling Reform movement of the last century for a better idea on some of this stuff... From Mike Dryfoos Fri Feb 17 10:22:06 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 10:22:06 TZ From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: Nose art and two questions Regarding the Newfies in the back of the Rover, I never considered the ultra-violet protective properties of the dog smears. When my German Shepherds do this, I think of it as Nose Art. They are skilled practitioners of an austere form of abstract expressionism. I feel I'm privileged to ride around not only in a fine example of automotive art, but one embellished with decorations from master nose artists. Now on to the questions. 1. The brake and clutch fluid reservoir on my '71 SIIA 88" appears to be just a single chamber, not the inner and outer chamber depicted in the diagrams in the manuals. Is this normal? As far as I know, it is original equipment. 2. My Superwinch overdrive has suddenly become difficult about returning to the disengaged position. I have no trouble going from disengaged to engaged, or from engaged to neutral, but when trying to complete the move back to disengaged, it fails to find sync, and grinds terribly. If I shift the main gearbox to neutral, I can then complete the shift. The OD has plenty of oil. The only thing I've done in the area recently is to remove and reinstall the shift lever when I put down a new front floor mat. Any suggestions on what to check? Regarding hand throttles, my Rover doesn't have one, either. So it doesn't seem they were provided on all IIAs. From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Feb 17 10:32:38 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Eastnor > In 1976 i was a visitor to the National Rally at eastnor, and a couple or three > times since. I was also at the launch of the 110 in the early 80's [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > to the lr movement over the years as host and president of the Midland ROC. > Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile Bill, This and all your other bits of indepth information are most appreciated. Thanks for the continuing stream of LR insights. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW Davis, CA USA From C Taylor Sutherland III Fri Feb 17 14:07:21 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:07:21 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: opinions on TDi wanted I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in an 88" SerIIa. What I want is opinions on these things... fixability availability of parts smell! smell without a top on...my guess is it would be a bit rank price :) can they really fit in a 88" S IIa without much trouble? price. Thanks guys Y'all have been a big help so far. Taylor From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 14:16:04 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:16:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: LRO FAQ [edited by bill] The new, draft version of the faq is available via request from majordomo. You can get it in one fell swoop (2500 lines, nearly 120,000 bytes), or in smaller chunks. Send a message with the text get lro-digest faq.split.aa get lro-digest faq.split.ab get lro-digest faq.split.ac get lro-digest faq.split.ad get lro-digest faq.split.ae and he'll mail it back to you. From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 14:22:29 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Nose art and two questions On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Mike Dryfoos wrote: > 1. The brake and clutch fluid reservoir on my '71 SIIA 88" appears to > be just a single chamber, not the inner and outer chamber depicted in > the diagrams in the manuals. Is this normal? As far as I know, it is > original equipment. Well, it is part number 504105 in my parts manuals for all vehicles (including the 6 cylinder to suffix F) to the date of the manual (which is August 1981). I have not seen a reservoir without the inner dividing column. Rgds, From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Fri Feb 17 12:45:46 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:45:46 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Valve trouble Two days before going to the Camel Trials my 69 with a new engine stuck a valve. It was an exshaust and come to find out all four of the exshaust were bad. The machinist had these thoughts: the guide caps were too tight and allowed no oil to get down the stem. Or the timing was off and suggested using vacume to time with. The intakes were perfect, no defects at all. One question I have is can the valves on the exshaust side be run with no cap seal for the guide. It was suggested that the seal was scrapping the stem dry of oil. Any ideas would be helpful. The engine has less than 300 miles since complete rebuild. No oiling problems and the rockers were fine. The engine was not raced during the break-in. Just normal driving and the enginr never overheated. Roy - Rover-impaired again! From Benjamin Allan Smith Fri Feb 17 12:08:24 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:08:24 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report Soren wrote: > On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote: > -------[snip]------------ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > > OVLR fielding a team?! And our friends from Oz? And Soren Aurens, the > > one-man Danish team? You guys would have the edge -- most Camel > Two good reasons: > 1. Proffesional soldiers cannot participate. Last year's Camel featured a South African Team. Etienne van Eeden was at that time a figher pilot, I assume for South Africa. Or is it that Infantry/Armor/Cavalry/... troops can't participate. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 15:28:16 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:28:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Weber carb slow running What is the idle set at? Could be that the leaks in the vaccuum system are to great. Hard to diagnose over a mail message. Is the idle high & you can't slow it it down? From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 17 13:39:53 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:39:53 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: US Camel Trials report Regarding the Camel Trophy, < Soren wrote: < > 1. Proffesional soldiers cannot participate. none and Ben Smith responded: < Last year's Camel featured a South African Team. Etienne van Eeden < was at that time a figher pilot, I assume for South Africa. < Or is it that Infantry/Armor/Cavalry/... troops can't participate. none The general ban against military participation caters to the political sensitivities of the host countries. But, in the case of such countries as Switzerland which have universal conscription, the ban would be unfairly discriminatory. It's the soldiers by choice who are excluded. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 15:58:04 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:58:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: opinions on TDi wanted On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: > I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in > an 88" SerIIa. What I want is opinions on these things... Out of curiosity, how much do you have to spend? From chris.youngson@deepcove.com Fri Feb 17 12:57:24 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 12:57:24 From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com Subject: FIND BILL LANG Is Bill Lang Scottish? Is his lr white with I think the number 38 on the side? From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 17 15:58:04 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:58:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: opinions on TDi wanted On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: > I have heard that these things kick out a lot of power and can fit in > an 88" SerIIa. What I want is opinions on these things... Out of curiosity, how much do you have to spend? From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 17 13:41:26 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:41:26 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: LR parts In message <950217194506_70713.1177_FHP68-1@CompuServe.COM> Ronald Blair writes: > I was reading your messages on the LR digest-- > I am currently restoring a 63 series IIA and thinking about putting the dual [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > at. > Thanks > Ron Blair Ron,I'm sorry I do not have the numbers here. Dixon (dkenner@emr1.emr.ca ) almost certianly has them at work. You didn't say if you had a 109 or 88. You need to specify when ordering the master cylinder. They are different & an 88 Master duel cylinder will not pump enough for a 109 (unless you replace the 88 break system for a 109 brake system back plates & everything attached). Make very sure Merseyside knows which master brake cylinder you need before ordering. Also you will need to decide if you want to go to power brakes (I did). If you do you will need to find a pedal/booster assembly from a series III, and elongate the hole in the fire wall for the brake pedal. There is an 'H' shaped brass part that you will meed. Lines go from master cylinder to it, from it to wheel cylinders. If you blow a wheel cylinder, it locks out that half of the brake system. Otherwise if you blow the end attached to the rear most master cylinder section you are hosed. You would need to go to the later master clutch cylinder with the built in resavor. I thought it was worth it. I got the power booster & master cylinder set up, and completely renewed the clutch system. If I ever get my 109 back, I'm going to renew the brake system down stream from the master cylinder. I have already had one pin hole rust through on a section of steel line. After inspecting it,I figure its time to replace it all. Take care TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Sanna@aol.com Fri Feb 17 16:56:17 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 16:56:17 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?) 2. My Superwinch overdrive has suddenly become difficult about > returning to the disengaged position. none Try double clutching. If that works the syncro is frapped. You can continue to drive it this way without damage. (double clutching that is) > Regarding hand throttles, my Rover doesn't have one, either. So it > doesn't seem they were provided on all IIAs. Everything on series IIs was an option. R, bg From Sanna@aol.com Fri Feb 17 17:50:43 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:50:43 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future I was in the same boat. 1 1/2 years I bought a '89 RR from Atlantic British in Mechanicville, NY. It had 56k on it and I paid $20,500. Atlantic British's business is parts, but they also sell a few Rovers/year. One VERY good thing about dealing with these people is that they stood 100% behind the truck. Since I basically made the deal, sight unseen, this was very reassuring. I flew to Albany, picked up the truck and drove it back to Wisconsin. For about the next four months, anything, ANYTHING, that I thought was wrong with the truck, they took care of. No questions asked. I paid the labor to install in Wisconsin, but they send me anything I asked for; a whole new stainless exhaust system, steering pump, alternator, interior parts, lamps, cooling fans, etc. etc.. In the end, I got a GREAT truck that has been very dependable. The previous owner was a Geenwich CTian who basically drove it to & fro the golf course. Atlantic British also has a list of Rovers for sale that has a lot of late RR's. There # is 800-533-2210. I like the '89 very much. From what I hear, it was a good year for the car. It was the first year for the bigger V8 (3.9). Prior to that they apparently were a bit under powered (3.5). The first few years of ABS (90-91?) were pretty problematic, I understand. Good luck. From David John Place Fri Feb 17 16:50:08 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 16:50:08 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: FIND BILL LANG Wow! Internet wins again. Perhaps we can get him to join the net. Unless He is already here and I missed his name on any of the messages. He has a great machine and it sounds like you have seen it. Dave VE4PN On Fri, 17 Feb 1995 chris.youngson@deepcove.com wrote: > Is Bill Lang Scottish? Is his lr white with I think the number 38 on the side? none [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] none > Is Bill Lang Scottish? Is his lr white with I think the number 38 on the side? From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Feb 17 23:01:49 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 23:01:49 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: The Car's the Star >From _TimeOut_ "The Car's The Star", BBC2, Friday 17 Feb. 1995, 20 minutes "A new sereies of paeans to motor vehicles begins with the Land Rover, launched in 1947. Rover claim that 65 percent of all Land Rovers ever built are still on the road, and this unfortunately allows tedious collectors to wax long and lyrical about the vehicle's longevity and charisma. Add to this the unctuous presentation of Quentin Wilson and you've got 20 minutes of stuff about a lump of metal that moves." Obviously _TimeOut_ types think we're just another bunch of anoraks. ------ Twenty minutes of rovers. Not too many new ones (spare a few Rangies), and a number of models in historical footage, or new footage of old vehicles. The program ends with Quentin Wilson stating that his job of working with cars tends to leave one jaded, but after 10 days with all types of Land Rovers and having driving 'bout a dozen of them, he's hooked and it closes with him driving off in a Series I soft top OCY 233. Sorry, but I don't have a copy, as I don't have video, and I didn't even try to arrange for it... but, if somebody else in the UK got it down, or can id when it repeats, I do have a friend in the states who can do a PAL to NTSC conversion. A partial list of people and vehicles: Tom Barton (LR '46-'80) Tony Poole (LR '56-'89) Anthea Turner, James Taylor Series II/III mobile cinema (opening shots) Film clip from "Last of the summer wine" (beeb series) MUX 62 Series I hard top OWS 290 'restorable' SI LWB Safari, owned by Tom Conti (moss growing on drip rails, etc., apparently original owner... NLT 9 Chassis 'QM1' [queen mother 1], 6 cylinder rover car engine, 10 seater, present owner Richard Beddal, has interior rear wiper to do away with condensation from the corgi's running about in the rear. SNX 891 Newsreel clip from "Overland to Singapore" A750YOJ BBC2 "Fast Show", talk up the overlanding and promptly get stuck immediately on leaving the road PUE 402 LR Film clip FBX 82 Nancy Jones from Wales - first run of vehicles, original owner 30GT80 Mil SIII LWB 13KJ67 Mil 110" 2094AC SII 88" station wagon film clip of '54 royal soft top 10FG80 military LWB Dunsfold LR Trust - Phillip Bashall with: SAS pink panther military sII 100" Forward Control ex-mil fire engine the wader the forest model Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Feb 17 23:05:40 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 23:05:40 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: LRO FAQ > I should have made a comment with the statement that I am always > looking for more material for the D90/Disco/RR crowd to get their > act together. There is nothing in there about any of them. Well, you'll have to throw down the gauntlet before it can be picked up... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Dan Derby Fri Feb 17 15:26:05 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:26:05 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Derby Subject: Subscribe Please subscribe me to the LandRover mailing list. Again. Thanks! Dan Derby derby@sequent.com From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Feb 17 19:29:23 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 19:29:23 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Pathfinder vs. Discovery Mike Rooth wonders.... > Whats a Pathfinder? Nissan Pathfinder.... one of the rice-rocket SUV's.. Cheers Mike From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Feb 17 18:31:21 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 18:31:21 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: TDIs, ODs, Bad Head, & LRO Taylor asked: none From Steven M Denis Fri Feb 17 20:24:24 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 20:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Valve trouble Golly Roy, that machinist has a valve stuck in *his/her* head!....if the valve stem to guide clearence is on spec. and the factory seal is used, it should be fine......but it ain't! so!....if it were caused by over heating,the wear/gauling would be on the head end of the valve/guide (the hotest part) if it were from lack of oil, the problem would be down the total lenght of the guide...this machinist can tell which type damage you have with a bore gauge in the guide.... Ok, two things .....*YES* you can run w/o exhaust seals...the exhaust are not subject to sub-atmospheric pressure as are the intakes...are you getting enough oil to the valve gear in general? if the oil passages in the head and/or rocker shaft are blocked you will run the guides dry...the rocker area should be dripping wiw3th {_oil after a run...running with the valve cover removed (oil will burn..watch out) will show quickly how much oil is getting up there....(should be a real splashfest...) The other thing that wipes out valves is the thermostat....do you have the kind with the skirt that comes down to block off the by-pass? a "flat" american type will kill valves (# 4 1st)...... ummmmmmm did this machinist who rebuilt the engine have a glass beader ("sand" blaster)???? and who set up the rockers and shafts? rebushed rockers? tell me more.. steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 17 95 Feb EST 1921 Date: 17 Feb 95 21:05:26 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: misc. Taylor.. It is easy to flip any Land Rover, or most other 4x4 for that matter, I know from practical experience, it gets easier after the first time. usually when you least expect it . I flipped my LWB on my first date with my wife ( she was'nt my wife then ) on our second date i buried it ( the Landie ) up to the door tops in a bog, eight winches to recover it. Twenty years of trialling and laning has left plenty of scars.( on the landie and rangey bodies, not mine ) It is simple to make a roll bar or cage to fit inside a soft and hard top, the support rails use up a lot of the space in the rear tho., suggest you make the support bars easily removable for non off road trips. From personal experience I know that the truck cabs and hard tops are useless in a roll, closely followed by the Rangie roof, they do not support the weight of the vehicle, even in a gentle roll. Pierce, in the uk many of the Rover v8 tuners use the buick parts,holleys, carters, crane etc etc. I know that turbos ( twin ) kits are available but I dont know about superchargers, but where there is a will there is a way. For Rangie, Landie and Disco steering and under body protection stuff contact Southdown 4 x 4 in the uk 44 1363 83819 or fax 44 1363 83472. If you don't believe me about the zinc poisoning from burning galvanising, just go ahead and try it, please do not come back and haunt me. but ifyou really want to use your grille for cooking, put the grill over an open fire for a while, but stay awy from the area, once the zinc has been burned off , clean it up, then it will rust. Iron is good fro the blood. like many poisons the dose has a big effect on the effects To those that sent them, thanks for the encouraging messages Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile Remember where you are going, where you came from and why you got yourself in this mess in the first place. Richard Bach - Illusions From chris.youngson@deepcove.com Fri Feb 17 18:23:39 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 18:23:39 From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com Subject: BILL LANG As far as I know he is living and working in the Vancouver area. I will talk to him at our next gathering. 73 DE VE7CST From William Caloccia Fri Feb 17 21:28:39 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 21:28:39 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: the list January 1995: 360+ subscribers During 1993, the number of people on the list grew to 80, 86, 88, 90, 100, straight on through 101, 108, 109, 110, 127... January 1993: 50 people 15 April 1991: Team.Net domain granted 1 April 1991: Team.Net domain applied for March 1991: 27 people From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Feb 17 18:29:31 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 18:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Cooking on the grill If the prospect of zinc poisoning isn't enough discourage the use of galvanized grills for cooking, consider this: industrial grade zinc is almost always contaminated with cadmium (among other metals). While zinc (in appropriately small amounts) is a required nutrient, cadmium is just plain toxic in even small amounts, and hard to get rid of once it's in the body. This may be one reason that galvanized dinnerware has never been very popular :^) Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW Davis, CA From tia!taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Fri Feb 17 22:06:31 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 22:06:31 From: tia!taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp) From Steven M Denis Fri Feb 17 22:17:44 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 22:17:44 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Fla. Rover Club I found a small group of rover owners in the Lake Worth Fla. area. They publish a news letter and seem to be well organized...contact Guy Davis at 419N. "J" street Lake Worth FL.33460 Guy has a 1958 (?) series one 88.....says that the registration number is one of a small group of series one 88's that were built in 1958...it has the old style rear axle (semi-floating) which inticates to me an older vehicle... he has the vehicle for sale @ $6900 us....if it was a truly rare vehicle it might be worth the price....does anyone know of any 1958 built series ones other than the 107sw ?...... steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From John Hong/C/HQ/3Com 17 95 Feb EDT 1919 Date: 17 Feb 95 19:43:20 EDT From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Subject: ARC memories Stefan writes: >Also among the 'chosen few' to do this test drive was none other than >John Hong and a couple of guys from BSROA in a rented brand-new snow-white >Defender 110 (bet they didn't tell the rental agency what they were up to...) Ho boy - good thing God invented power washers! We are going to rent from them again this year the outfit is Top Range - they advert in LRO. BSROA is going again - Lord Jim and Lady Pappas will be attending - I'm going - we'll see if Kevin Keegan (either he or Jim was on the camera) will make it for BSROA Pilgrammage III. Any other folks going? Sir Denis? Duke Leacock? Caloccia and Jacob will be there right! >And please, will the guy who filmed me d(r)iving thru that water hole from >the back of the white 'Official American Delegation' Defender finally >send me that particular video clip, digitize and e-mail it to me, or give it >to someone who'll attend this years' Rally - I just *gotta have it* ! Jim Pappas, you reading this? Can we make the man happy? Probably be wanting to extort some of that Deutchland brew out of him though...Stefan can you handle VHS? I'm setting up to do PC-based capture-editting-output - I could probably do something - gotta get a tape from Jim though... Also, a project I'm kicking around is getting a 50 Cal ammo box and cutting a hole in one end and silconing a piece of 1/4 inch glass over it. Come up with some scheme to mount the thing on top of the bumper and put a "cheap" video cam in it and then go off roading. One could probably rig up a remote too? Anybody try this? Is the vibration just TOO much? John From Roger Sinasohn Fri Feb 17 20:37:16 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 20:37:16 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: U.K. parts details > Use a credit card in dealing with companys in different currency areas. > The credit card company deals with the currency exchange. If you send > them a check, you need to find a place that issues checks in other > currencies. This can be a pain. I rung up the post office t'other day to inquire about postal money orders in foreign currencies and learned that you can purchase a voucher from the post office which you then send to St. Louis. Somebody in St. Louis then sends a check in pounds sterling to whomever in England. Unfortunately, all this takes about 6 weeks. So, I'd have to agree with the credit card solution. If you need to send money, though, to someone who doesn't take credit cards (Crazy Aunt Euphegenia, for example), this may help out. In regards to your orders... I might be interested in going in on some parts too. (Drooling over your sand ladders and snorkel...) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From David John Place Sat Feb 18 00:00:24 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 00:00:24 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp) The station wagons usually had a plate on the rear Land Rover sign that said Station Wagon. It has a door that swings open like a regular door rather than a lift and drop tailgate set up. Usually they had one of, jump seats which were single and faced inward or inward facing bench type rear seats which seated two people. Almost all the ones I have had use the 4 single inward facing seats. The second roof you seemed to describe is I believe the tropical roof. It is really only a second layer of metal which sits above the "real" roof and allows air to flow between the two skins to give some relief from tropical heat. Usually there are air vents in the lower roof to let in cooler air. Not all vehicles of course have this tropical roof. On some station wagons or shooting brakes as they seem to be called from time to time or estate cars the tyre is carried on the bonnet and in others it is on the swing out door. In my station wagon 88, it is carried sometimes in one of those locations but most often just behind the driver on a fitting which has a wingnut and plate to attach it to the bulkhead between the rear and front of the vehicle. Remember that each Land Rover is almost a special order so many of the things I have described can be different on otherwise identical vehicles. My stationwagon has door and roof panels of black nugahyde (sp) which cover most of the interior metal surfaces, but in some units this is omitted. The nicest way to carry the tyre on the hood is on the deluxe bonnet. It differs from the standard one in that it is dished in the middle to lower the tyre for better view and the leading edge is rounded. My vehicle has both the interior and outer wing headlamps. This way when I am carrying the full winch and jerrycan combo I don't block the lights. They run off separate switches inside so I can select all or only one set of three types of front lamps I carry. Of course I switched to a heavy duty Alternator. I better not fill anymore bandwidth. If you have any more info you want E-Mail me direct. Dave VE4PN From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Feb 17 22:07:21 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 22:07:21 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future >Sanna@aol.com wrote: >I like the '89 very much. From what I hear, it was a good year for the car. none After the complete makeover you decsribe, any year would be a good year. @) >It was the first year for the bigger V8 (3.9). Prior to that they >apparently were a bit under powered (3.5). The first few years of ABS >(90-91?) were pretty problematic, I understand. Good luck. I heard that the '89 RR's have Lucas electronics, while '90 and later have Bosch. Is this correct?? --Michael cs@crl.com From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 17 23:07:59 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 23:07:59 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc RE: Misc (here he goes again!) 1. Foot activated throttle - I think these are required everywhere but the moon. The hand throttle is really for those of us with PTO toys (winches, welders, pumps, etc.). Have seen/had many IIa's without them. Seen many sIII with them and Warn Hubs... 2. My sIII has a galv. metal grill. Is this an option? Yes, I know most are plastic (which doesn't work well in the fire). Zinc fumes will kill you. (weld shops sand off the zinc first!). Don't know about oral. Never eaten out of a carb! My '73 USA also had a EGR valve (I quickly took it off and hid it from the smog people). Was this common? 3. There are 3 or 4 places listed in LRO that have high performance parts for the 225 ci motor (not 283 - completely different). The 225 was raced in round and round, but mainly in boats here in the states. This is a wet-linner engine and I believe that the largest ci you can make it is a 4.8L or 5.0L. There are chip replacements for the EFI. A Preditor (variable venturi) carb would give awsome performance, but cost lots of fuel. Also, porting/cam mods can be done, but you're just shifting the torque curve and trading torque for HP. i.e. do you want a high-RPM street machine or something trackable at 800 RPM? In general, ci (displacement) = HP/Torque! Get a Chevy 350 TRUCK engine and get an adaptor plate. Hope you don't lunch the 380 trans! Does anyone know the part # for the 4-prong ground used in the tail lights on my '73 sIII? I have the number for the 2-connection, but can't find the # for the 4. Also, can we get these odd bullet connectors here in the States? Should fire up my engine this week-end. Wish me luck! For those of you setting your steering - don't leave that cold chisel in the steering relay arm as you decide which spline is best. As I turned mine lock to lock (fool with short memory), I kind of kinked my NEW radiator. What a BOZO! As far a how great LR's, does that make it right to give it snob appeal? It wasn't that long ago that LR was shaking in their boots 'cause of the Land Cruisers, Monteros, etc. Remember, these people LOVE to copy something that is making money. (compare the running gear of a Land Cruiser ('77) with the Land Rover). Yes, I thing they're great (Tony Tiger here). But, the Disco STARTS (cost wise) where all the domestics max out. An out the door of $38K plus change for a maxed out one. Does the house come with it? The dealers act like I should be happy I'm getting it for that price. The cost of some- thing should not allow me to look down on less expensive vehicles! Disco- the YUP vehicle of the 90's. Makes me not want to buy one. I've had some very rude run-ins with the LA types... Sorry. But I really do feel beter! Someone wanted prices - $32,285 OTD stripped 5 spd, 33,550 OTD with auto. '91 RR with 48K - 58K miles $23K to $26K. Later Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 18 01:18:36 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 01:18:36 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Michael Yablonski asks: < this Camel Trophy. Can someone tell me what it is and what it is all about? < Some history maybe? Camel Trophy is loosely referred to as the Olympics of 4WD. The first one used jeeps in the Amazon in 1980. Ever since they have used Land Rover products. Over a million applicants vie for spots on the two-man national teams. About a dozen are selected to compete in national trials. Four finalists go to international trials which further narrow down the team to two, plus two alternates, plus two team journalists. Mundo Maya '95 will be held May 17-June 8 in Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. Twenty nations will send teams. Points are awarded for Special Tasks. Teams vote for the one with the best team spirit in the expedition which covers 1,000 miles of very challenging terrain. Overall winning team gets the trophy, which is three hands holding aloft a globe and vehicle. Women first participated in the Camel Trophy in 1994, with Carine Duret on the French team and Christel Persson on the Swedish team. Camel cigarettes (RJR Nabisco) sponsored the first event. Since then it has been taken over by Worldwide Brands Inc., a wholly-owned subsidary of RJR, organized in 1981, which owns the Camel Trophy trademark. WBI Germany had launched the "Camel Collection" of leisure wear in 1977, and in 1991 WBI diversified into "Camel Trophy Adventure Wear" (boots, clothing, watches), presently marketed only in Europe and the Far East. In 1992 Land Rover entered into a formal co-sponsorship agreement with WBI. Plans now call for North American LR dealers to market the "adventure wear". Here is the history of the Camel Trophy in a nutshell: Year Place Vehicle #teams Winners 1980 Transamazonica Jeep 3 (Ger) Ger (Klaus Karthna- Dircks, Uwe Machel) 1981 Sumatra Range Rover 5 (Ger) Ger (Christian Swoboda, Knuth Mentel) 1982 Papua NewGuinea Range Rover 8 Italy (Cesare Geraudo, Giuliano Giongo) 1983 Zaire Ser III 88 7 Neth (Henk Bont, Franz Heij) 1984 Brazil 110 12 Italy (Maurizio Lavi, Alfredo Redaelli) 1985 Borneo 90 16 Ger (Heinz Kallin, Bernd Strodach) 1986 Australia 90 14 France (Jacques Mambre, Michel Courvallet) 1987 Madagascar Range Rover 14 Italy (Mauro Miele, Vincenzo Tota) 1988 Sulawesi 110 12 Turkey (Galip Gurel, Ali Deveci) 1989 The Amazon 110 14 UK (Bob Ives, Joe Ives) 1990 Siberia-USSR Discovery 16 Neth (Rob Kamps, Stijn Luyx) 1991 Tanzania-Burundi Discovery 17 Turkey (Menderes Utku, Bulent Ozler) 1992 Guyana Discovery 16 Switz (Alwin Arnold, Urs Bruggisser) 1993 Sabah-Malaysia Discovery 16 USA (Tim Hensley, Michael Hussey) 1994 Arg-Parag-Chile Discovery 18 Spain (Jorge Corella, Carlos Martinez) 1995 Mundo Maya Discovery 20 "The Legend in Adventure" continues... T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Mark Perry Sat Feb 18 03:06:17 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 03:06:17 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: First time here Greetings to lro's from Mark Perry, Winnipeg,Manitoba Canada, almost- a- year-on owner of 1966 Ser.IIA, 88" petrol hardtop. Of course, I have questions (and I bet Dave Place has most of the answers), comments also. 1. Everything you've heard about Suzuki SJ410's is true. 2. The Economist magazine of Feb.11 has a piece about pressure to U.K. and Euro-pressure to ban crash/roo/bull/brush bars for increased injury and damage in pedestrian and vehicle collisions. Land Rover is cited as denying their bars are dangerous. I hear nothing of this in U.S. or Canada. Comments? 3.My L-R is fitted with a capstan winch made by now-defunct Aeroparts Engineering, but is missing entire PTO/drive-train/control lever setup. Anyone know of a source for such, or interested in this unit? Anyone know a*manual* winch source as alternate? 4. I inherited a noisy Fairey OD, had it stripped, inspected; replaced all bearings, layshaft and input gear ass'y, but still noisy. In OD produces a horrific whine which becomes painful above 2500 rpm. Tony Sanderson of Superwinch suggests its the gear mesh, prime suspect being output-to-trasfer case gear flanks? Anyone have experience on this and its remedy? That's enough for now. Cheers, Mark P Remember, if it isn't leaking, it's out of something. From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sat Feb 18 13:27:06 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 13:27:06 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: ARC memories // futures > BSROA is >going again - Lord Jim and Lady Pappas will be attending - I'm going - we'll [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >Pilgrammage III. Any other folks going? Sir Denis? Duke Leacock? Caloccia >and Jacob will be there right! Yep, I'll be there. When's the party start ? Should I plan ont taking off Firday, or Thursday and Friday? The Lincs. folks have cashed my check, but I've not see anything else from them. Southern never got a hold of me with respect to temporary memberships, so I don't think they're up for it. I'll make some further inquiries. How many require temp RAC-ARC competition memberships ? Application forms ? I've got a day after the nationals and then two back down south. After that I was planning on heading to Italy for a few weeks. >Come up with >some scheme to mount the thing on top of the bumper and put a "cheap" >video cam >in it and then go off roading. One could probably rig up a remote too? >Anybody try this? Is the vibration just TOO much? A couple years ago Forbes (?) had an article 'bout a NY exec who took off to Austria to prepare for the Paris-Dakar run in a G-Wagen. They bolted the camera to the roll cage (as many racer types do), their only problems were that it vibrated loose, but that's less likely to happen at reasonable speeds. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 18 08:36:52 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 08:36:52 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: StRE: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions Taylor - Are you really going to buy one of these things or just ask questions? Here's some info: The spare fits neatly behind the front seats attached to the bulkhead. I like this position better because it a) Provides a perfect place to carry your Hi-Lift jack, spanning from wheel box to wheel box squeezed between the spare and the bulk-head (I know, Taylor, your next question will be "Wots a High-Lift, Jack?). b) It makes a great arm rest. c) And it lets me tell people who ask, that that thing on my hood is the 50 cal. gun mount. When you need the room, the tire hops nicely onto the hood. When it is on the hood the windsheild is made so it folds nicel, level accross the tire. It does take some muscle, however, to check your oil. The canvas top can be had with or without vinyl side windows and in a variety of colors. All of the ones that I've seen have vinyl rear windows and olive green. The top is great. It REAL canvas, not some synthetic. Your car will smell like a circus tent. It will stretch and contract with the weather. It takes about five minutes to put on, but just a minute to remove. When it's off it rolls and stores perfectly along the floor in the rear along one of the wheel boxes, with one end snuggly fit in the space between the spare and the wheel box. Plan on replacing it every five or six years. They're real & they rot out. In addition to the axiom "Real Rovers have metal dashboards", there is the additional truth that "Real, REAL Rovers have metal dashboards and the headlights in the grill". The Series I crew might even take this line of thinking further. Get a '68 Taylor, but don't butcher it. Series II tranny's are great! You have to double clutch, buts its a great, grinding piece of machinary. Mine's 1/3 million miles and still factory. An oil cooler cools the engine oil, Taylor, it doesn't cool the engine with oil! Are you sure you wouldn't be better off in a Buick? From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 18 08:43:22 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 08:43:22 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future And I'll look out for those '89 models--sounds like they are better...not to mention a bit less expensive thx to age. What sort of "bugs" are you encountering now, btw? I had some real wandering problems with the truck (couldn't keep it home on Saturday night). A-B send me new steering bushings, stearing shock, etc. Nothing worked. Then, when I finally replaced the tires, the problem disapeared! No logical explaination, but something in the old tires was making the truck squirrelly. '89 RR's don't have the sway bars, so it handles a little whale-ish, but from what I hear on this line, they preform much better off-road without them (longer wheel travel). This is a VERY, VERY comfortable vehicle. I love it! It is also the most capable off-road truck I've ever driven. I use it in the mud & muck all the time. I've got Bush bars and a 4 ton low profile Super Winch on the front. Both have proved very usefull. The bush bar is great for strapping things to, however it makes replacing a headlamp a two hour project (the headlights are supposedly easily changed by lifting the hood, unclipping the grill and folding it forward. However, with the bar & winch in place it has no place to go, so you end up removing the whole assembly.) The tail light guards are problematic. They collect snow on their splines and keep the lamp covered, and the quick-release screw has a tendency to corrode, so when you need to replace a bulb, you've got another two hour project. The electronics are scarry in this thing, although they've never caused me any problem. This is the vintage when the elctronics got very complicated, but probably the year before they went to micro-processors. There are relays EVERYWHERE. Banks & banks of them under the dash, under the seats, crammed in the center console. Probably all Lucas too. This weekend I'm going to remove the plastic front air dam from under the bumper. It really cuts down the aproach angle and is always getting beat up. The heating system is bizzare. I don't know of anyone who really understands it, but it works. The heating & defrost is adequate (the electricly heated windshield is a help), but the A/C is the best I have ever seen in ANY car. It pumps a huge volume of icy air through the dashe's five ports. The rear storage is sort of funky for such an expensive car (a piece of carpet hung from a shelf), but using the shelf as a starting point I built a beautiful tool box from Honduran mahogany to match the wood in the doors. It holds winch goodies, tow bars, tow straps, tool roll, flash lights, gloves, binoculars, wool blankets, jack, with room for a 12" sub-woofer. I hope this helps. - Tony From Steven M Denis Sat Feb 18 10:35:31 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 10:35:31 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Misc Hey...Kelly just brought somethig up....and before I blast, I want you to know I do the same thing....but if ya know the risk it is different..I guess...When he told about the chisel in the steering arm, I shivvered...that is a big no no...if you spread the arm you will stress it...and it might fail....wheeeeeeeeeeeeeclunk.....not good...So...don't do it.....but I do it all the time..but I know better...so does Kelly ....so do you ...now... steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From smule@ix.netcom.com (Sam Collins) Sat Feb 18 09:08:19 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 09:08:19 -0800 From: smule@ix.netcom.com (Sam Collins) Subject: landrover mailing list Is this a mailing list site? I have a landrover and am trying to get connected to a BBS etc. Let me know how to connect if you are out there. From Roger Sinasohn Sat Feb 18 09:14:39 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 09:14:39 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: ARC memories > I'm setting up to do PC-based capture-editting-output - I could > probably do something - gotta get a tape from Jim though... Droool... Send MPEG's! MPEG! MPEG! MPEG! hehehehehe Gotta justify this fancy laptop and the diskspace for the MPEG viewer somehow! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "Richard Lucking" Sat Feb 18 17:19:28 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 17:19:28 GB/EIRE From: "Richard Lucking" Subject: Christmas Hols! I know this is late, but I've been busy... honest! Recap: I am at UMIST, in Manchester, England, LR is in Sussex, 200 miles away, and the first time I could drive it (1969 SWB SIIa 2.25 petrol) was xmas hols. I experianced a lot of things this christmas, such as: 1) Visiting a lot of diferent petrol stations 2) Running out of petrol for the first time ever.. My previous car (Ford Fiesta) could go on forever when the guage was on empty, the LR just stoped the moment needle touched the E.. at least its accurate (Incidently, the tank took several litres more than the haynes manual said it should (Is the garage ripping me off - therefore am I getting *More* than 16mpg????)) 3) the joys of having dozens of grease nipples/oil fillers to top up. 4) Novel experiance of people raving about how wonderful it is, even after a ride (does wonders for the ego!), even the women..... 5) Finding the chassis has more holes than I thought it did when I bought it, but I was too desperate to buy it.... 6) Realising my father is getting very attached to it, very useful, as his "toy" 1969 Rover P5B has had just about everything changed, and is now very reliable, so he spends his weekends playing with mine instead, very useful!! 7) having to spend several days using a pair of pliers to start it when the starter solenoid packed up, interesting at busy junctions. 8) Being able to grab peoples knees (in central seat) and have a good excuse! (I though it was the gear lever!) 9) That *refreshing* condensation shower you get on a cold morning when you have to go and work for your dad ( does wonders for the suit...) 10) Even my mum likes it now.. being able to carry 11 people (very cosy in SWB) home from her "End-of-panto-party" (She works Front of house at local theatre) all "merry" (Me excluded :-( ) - Isn't the ride much more comfortable with a load!! I now won't be able to drive it (I refuse to give it a name) until the summer, as I am spending all Easter on a farm in Wales with my arm up a sheep!! (Lanbing time!). Great Off roading, but too expensive to drive there and back... maybe in the summer, unless somebody wants to make a donation ;-) Thats all for now, I will try to post more often now!!! Cheers Tricky --------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Lucking phone:(0161) 224 6641 (Term) email:bu063@ist2.co.umist.ac.uk (Flat 48) or: se063@sna.co.umist.ac.uk A Land Rover is for life, unlike a Jeep . . . . . . ===================================================================== From LuckyJoe@aol.com Sat Feb 18 13:06:09 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 13:06:09 -0500 From: LuckyJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: index lro-digest index lro-digest From Dixon Kenner Sat Feb 18 13:49:34 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 13:49:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: LRO FAQ On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > > I should have made a comment with the statement that I am always > > looking for more material for the D90/Disco/RR crowd to get their > > act together. There is nothing in there about any of them. > Well, you'll have to throw down the gauntlet before it can be picked up... none Well, that's easy. All you D90, Disco, RR types out there. Before we go into flamefest 95b, how about you supply some stuff for the FAQ. Now that you have seen it, you will notice that it is rather Series oriented (and going to get more so as I add more stuff). Unless You want the uninitiated to think that the Series are the only real Land Rover, you better get going... :-) Rgds, Dixon From "Rostykus, John" Sat Feb 18 11:38:00 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 11:38:00 PST From: "Rostykus, John" Subject: Performance parts for LR V8's R. P. Reid writes: >Does anyone still carry performance parts for the old Buick 283, on which the >L.R. V8's are based? Long throw cranks? Cams? Dare I ask, Superchargers?? >Really just a mental exercise, I am not likely to tear into a new D90 any none time >soon, but I bet that V8 would run great with a 350 CFM Holly 4bbl, edelbrock >manifold, crane cam and punched out to about 350 Cu inches. And it would be >infinitely more repairable! >Anyone want to brainstorm on this one? none Yes, many aftermarket parts are available. Just wander down to your local 'American' car performance shop, and you should find the Buick 215 (not 283) listed in various catalogs. My '79 Range Rover used to have a stock V-8 with dual Zenith Strombergs. I converted this to a Holley 4bbl, JWR dual-port manifold, and Crane cam (still just 215 cu in) for < $300. The performance definitely improved, and it still got about 15 mpg. I later converted the beast to a Perkins turbo-D, and sold the V-8 to a neighbor down the street who threw a rod in his '80 Range Rover. He is quite pleased with the result, and after 3 years, it's still going strong. Let me know if you want more specifics, I can probably dredge up some part numbers. There are various British specialists who supply performance parts, but with a little hunting, you can find them in the US for *much* cheaper. Tinkering with the old 'carb'ed V8 was easy, modifying an EFI V8 is beyond my skill or desire. Rosty john@data-io.com From "Rostykus, John" Sat Feb 18 11:55:00 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 11:55:00 PST From: "Rostykus, John" Subject: What's a Newfy? As a Newfy and LR owner, I can assure you there a lot of parallels. They both: 1) are 4x4's. 2) are large, but have a low center of gravity.. 3) like to play in the water. 4) often stop to rest in the mud, when playing with others. 5) leak fluid. 6) attract attention in public places. 7) tolerate children climbing all over them. 8) are much better at accelerating than at stopping. 9) can pull stuck cars out of a ditch. 10) are mistaken for other breeds. ("Nice Jeep, mister. Nice St. Bernard, mister."). Rosty (and Fezzik, the Newfoundland) john@data-io.com Limestone IIA 109" P/U with a large black Newfy in the back. From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Sat Feb 18 13:36:03 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 13:36:03 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future I agree with everything you say about the 89. However the electronics are about par for the course -- the use of microprocessors does not obviate the need for banks of relays. I carry a couple of spares, but so far no problem -- knock on wood. The relays can theoretically be replaced in automobile electronics by solid state replacements such as transistors and the like, but manufacturers have been slow to do it, mainly because solid state switches are far more likely to melt down with modest overload. Hence the reliance on the trusty relay, which itself keeps getting cheaper and better anyway. I like the sound of your mahogny toolbox -- can you tell us more? Also, fyi, the reason swaybars reduce optimal off-road traction is not just the limit on wheel travel, which can actually be the same with and without swaybars depending on the limits set by bump stops and shocks. The axle simply has more resistance to even modest articulation, with the result that a drooping wheel is "unloaded" much more rapidly with swaybars as the wheel descends -- reducing ground contact force and hence available traction. That's why Land Rover claimed "uncompromised wheel travel" when swaybars were introduced -- what they didn't mention was the compromised traction, which had to be made up for by adding electronic traction control in 1993. Well folks sorry for boring you with all this -- that's the trouble with being an engineer! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Adam Messer <0002511669@mcimail.com> Sat Feb 18 17:27 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 17:27 EST From: Adam Messer <0002511669@mcimail.com> Subject: U.S. availability of Disco skid plates My wife and I live in Tanzania, and about 4 months ago we bought a 1994 Disco 2.5TDi. We've been *really* pleased with it. But after bashing the tie rods during a bush trip, and having to do field repairs with a sledgehammer, I am in the market for skid plates. There are no aftermarket skid plates available in Tanzania, and apparently Land Rover's special vehicles skid plates will only be available as a factory-installed option. Does anyone know if skid plates are available in the U.S.? We're going back to Africa on Friday, 24 Feb, and need to move fast on this. Thanks for any leads. Adam Messer 0002511669@mcimail.com (expires 24 Feb) Diana Putman dputman@usaid.gov (email in TZ) From Morgan Hannaford Sat Feb 18 15:00:49 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 15:00:49 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Dow down, Rovers up Man, in the S.F. chronicle there is a '74 88" for sale for, get this, $12,000! It says totally refurbished and many extras but wow. I figure that the series Land Rovers are just going to become more valuable over time, what an investment. On another note, there is also a 1966 Nissan Patrol advertised in the Chron. selling for $5000. It is actually parked near my house. This thing is even more of a rip-off of Land Rover styling than the Land Cruiser is. It is funky looking and I bet parts are a hassle. Anyone familiar with these rigs? Morgan From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 18 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 18 Feb 95 18:12:14 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Saturdays digest Steven Denis re 1958 88 ser 1's the following are the ser numbers chassis numbers petrol diesel home rhd 111800001 116800001 ex rhd 112800001 117800001 ckd rhd 113800001 118800001 lhd export 114800001 119800001 ckd lhd 115800001 120800001 Axles serial no 111800001 semi floating 111880001 fully floating I have a set of 1993 micrfiches for the LR parts range, and no viewer. I could easily get the later version. Is there a cheap method of reproducing the pages? obviously needs to be cheaper than buying the parts book the fiche 's were free. anybody offer the service ? John Hong By being in the states at the new year I obviously missed the new years honours list, nice of you to tell me of my promotion. Yes I' ll be there at the international, courtesy of my GM relocation package, I have got an entry in the CCV from a friend who has arranged it for me as a visiting yank!! Will your video film through MUD? Kelly the metal grille used on your ser 3 was standard on 2a from early 69 thro to 71 they are much better in warmer climes because the plastic ones restrict the rad airflow too much. The 4 way snap in connector you ask about is a Lucas part number 850641, the bullet is also a Lucas part number 900269 for the solder ( or is sodder ) type and 54941384 for the crimp type. Dixon / Mike In 1971 as the ser 2a parts were used up there were a lot of hybrids produced as ser 2a with ser 3 parts until the ser 3 was officially released. most common were the salisbury axle on the 109 and the synchro boxes on all models, they still used the old clutch system. Morgan, I have worked in the aluminium radiator business for so long now that, like you i can't remember. your keys are probably with mine. were you at the same party at whatthemacallits? Roy if lubrication of the valves was a problem why are the inlet ones OK. ? the inlet valve seals are fitted with a spring to seal on the valve because of the pressure drop accross them. the exhaust seals are not fitted with the spring and are therefore less efficient. Check the clearance between valve and guide. When fitting the guides it is VERY easy toupset the end of the guide and reduce the diameter so that it is a tight fit on the valve. Regards Bill Leacock From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Feb 19 00:31:36 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 00:31:36 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: _THE_ survey - who's who on the land rover owner list... Surveys have been done in the past, but not recently, while membership has increased signficantly, so the past who's who list is quite out of date. Although lots of this information passes on the list in text or as signatures, it is a but more difficult to parse out of messages, so, the simplest thing is to ask for you help in doing this by having you do some of the work. Here is the kind of info I'm looking for: Surname: Caloccia Called_Names: Bill County/State: Middlesex Country(US,UK): UK Clubs: Pennine LRC Vehicle: RR 1972 2dr 3.5l DAJ802L Now, if you can stick to some relatively 'normal' references to vehicles it will be a lot easier to deal with: type-wb year body engine reg.mark or name Vehicle: Disco 91 5dr 200Tdi Vehicle: D90 94 hard 3.9i Vehicle: D110 93 5dr 3.9i frosty Vehicle: SI-80 51 soft 2.25 POU-205 Vehicle: SII-109 67 safari 2.25 Vehicle: SII-109 67 doormobile 2.25 Vehicle SII-88 67 cab 2.25D nigel Vehicle: RR 72 2dr 3.489perkins body styles: soft (top), hard (top), safari (5dr), doormobile (camper), (pickup) cab, 2dr/4dr rangies, 3dr/5dr discos Some courtesies please: If you do elect to reply, then ++ please help out by using the form below. ++ PLEASE send the reply ONLY to 'survey@team.net' ++ delete everything above this line (after copying anything...) ------------------------- cut here - delete above ---------------------- Mail To: survey@team.net Surname: Called_Names: County/State: Country(US,UK): Club: type/wb year body engine Vehicle: Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From David John Place Sat Feb 18 19:01:19 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 19:01:19 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: _THE_ survey - who's who on the land rover owner list... On Sun, 19 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote:> > ------------------------- cut here - delete above ---------------------- > Mail To: survey@team.net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." > 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From RLZiegler@aol.com Sat Feb 18 21:23:00 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 21:23:00 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Valve seizing, hand trottle, OD Valve Seizing: I ran into valve seizing some years ago with several L/R heads that were done at a machine shop I had used for years. After contacting the manufacturer of the valves (in England) it was decided that there was not enough clearance between the valve stem and guide after reaming and upon heat of running. The machinist assured me that he had reamed the guides after installation and I believed him. However, his reamer may have been somewhat worn. At any rate the series 3 shop manual gives the range for a finished exhaust guide to be 0.3435 in. to 0.3450 in. Between the valve manufacturer, the machinist, and I it was decided that only the largest specification (0.3450 in.) would be used hense forth. I have not had any valve seizing troubles since that time (early 1980's). It is not often that I disagree with B. Maloney, but , his advice about not using the headgasket with graduated water passages is wrong. First I don't think any of the non-graduated gaskets exist and if I found one in my collection I'd throw it out. Back in their day, I and other mechanics found a lot of heads cracked and L/R's answer to this problem was the graduated water passages. This resulted in a lot less head cracking. As per previous advisers in this digest, make sure you do not install headgaskets backwards; the smallest passages go to the front of the engine and the largest to the rear. Also smear copper headgaskets with engine oil just before installation and the new composition type with the steel rings at the cylinder edge go on dry. I would not intentionally run the engine without valve guide seals as the oil consumption would increase as would contamination of the oil that stays in the engine. (Sorta like them swivel balls - oil leaks OUT and water gets IN.) Hand throttle: Was an option on all series L/Rs. I ordered it as an option on my 63 SIIA in Apr. 1963 (horizontally mounted under instrument cluster) and my 74 SIII had one on it when I bought it 3rd hand (vertically mounted on firewall)(I've seen plenty of SIIIs without hand throttle). Overdrive shifting problem: Mike, Using Maloney's advise about the pinch bolt, factory spec calls for there to be 0.10 inch between the large gear you see to the rear and the closest edge (to that gear) of the synchro unit when in normal range. I use the required number of feeler gauges to accomplish this. Hope this helps some of you, Rich Ziegler, L/R mechanic '63 88 SW (in pieces) '74 88 hard top From Steven M Denis Sat Feb 18 22:20:15 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 22:20:15 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Valve seizing Hey Rich, glad to se that you are alive and kicking! I'm student teaching at a BOCES engine rebuilding lab...Friday one of the students put new cast iron guides in a 318 chrysler head....used a .383 reamer...new from the package...miked out at "Hey! .383!"...the new valve miked out at .3812 Ok fine.....reamed the guide...the valve would only go in part way...huh....ream from the other side.....part way...hmmmmmmm check with other valves...part way...put that valve in other guides.....slip-slide....???????????? valve's not bent.....what the heck????? dial bore gauge the hole...... .3832-2ish...all the way down.....all the way around.......\re-mike the valve.....fine..up and down and all around......"I'm getting *very* angry, Earthling!" mutter mutter mutter mutter........."Look, kid...go get a 1/4 inch dowel from the wood shop...split the end, fold a piece of sand paper in the slot...get the drill and come back..........*HONED* the damn thing....geeeeeese.... All I could remember was telling the kids that "..If you use the proper tools and measure correctly you will *never* have a problem....." right..........we have 300,00 dollars worth of machinery and I'm honeing with a stick..... I do belive that I'll relive the guides a bit when I do the rover diesel....can't have any sticking valves..."Valve?, meet Piston...Piston?...meet valve..."....yes sir...where's that stick?....... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 18 22:41:07 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 22:41:07 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: _THE_ survey - who's who on the land rover owner list... Sanna, Anthony Madison, Wisconsin, USA '70 IIa 88 - 300+K, '89 Range Rover - 78K no clubs From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 18 22:47:25 1995 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 22:47:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Who's Who Surname: Sanna Called_Names: Anthony County/State: Wisconsin Country(US,UK): US Club: none type/wb year body engine name Vehicle: SII - 88 '70 canvas 2.25 Lulubelle Vehicle: RR From S|ren Vels Christensen Sun Feb 19 13:40:17 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 13:40:17 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Sign (final) Hi The sign is now finished. Mods are implemented and there should be no violations of copyright left. Even Dixon's sparewheel has a neutral tread pattern ;-) If all goes well, you can find it on Lloyd Allisons web at http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/LRO Perhaps you will allow Lloyd a day or so to decode. I will also forward Bill Caloccia's request not to use the sign with the landy logo. I hope that it is now easier for some of you to obtain the image. Please note that this is the final version from my hand. Fiddeling with details is very time consuming. Enjoy sv/aurens From Sanna@aol.com Sun Feb 19 08:52:52 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 08:52:52 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Boxes - Part 1 What's that old saying? "You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too many tool boxes." When I mounted the second gas tank in my IIa I cut off the driver's seat tool box to fit in the 4 or 5 inches or so tha were left free by the tank. Great for rope, tow straps, & jumper cables. When the windshield washer quit on me, I replaced the water tank with an deep aluminum box, pop riveted to the inside of the wing that held tow chains and a double set of tire chains. I have another tool box that's contoured around the OD under the center seat to hold a tools, various sizes of tow-balls, & spare parts (with an access door for the OD). My LR came with facing rear seats. I removed the one behind the driver and built a teak box that goes almost end to end (it's as long as the galvanized trim return). It follows the rounded contours inside the body and has rubber stripping mitered into the top to keep it reasonably tight. It's weathered nicely over the last 25 years. I have old wool blankets, sweaters (for cool weather canvas-off driving), spot light, manuals, bungy cords, and what-ever in this box. I have another removeable box that I use for top-of road trips. It's sort of a trunk. It fits snugly between the wheel boxes and is as high as the wheel boxes. It goes from the tail gate to the front bulkhead. It has a divider that separates it into a front compartment and rear. The front is accessable by a door that lifts up and the rear is just open to the rear so that the tail gate is actually the door for it. Camping equipment, cameras & such are dropped in from the top of the front compartment or slid into the back. The front door is secured by a metal rod that slides in from the back (so to open the front you have to drop the Rover's tail gate and slide the rod out a few inches). The tail gate can then be secured by a padlock through one or both of the hasps that secure the gate. The box is made from plywood and sheithed with aluminum on top. This one is just a friction fit, so that it can be removed and stored when not used. It is also makes the rear of the car rather comfortable. The remaining rear seat is now level with the new floor, and piled with back packs, sleeping bags, blankets & coats the kids make quite a nest back there for traveling. Sort of an open-air play-pen. (Oh yes, did I say that this truck has no door locks and usually has no top). Part two to come.... From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sun Feb 19 09:32:05 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 09:32:05 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Rich's Advice & John's Snorkle Rich Wrote: none It is not often that I disagree with B. Maloney, but , his advice about not using the headgasket with graduated water passages is wrong. First I don't think any of the non-graduated gaskets exist and if I found one in my collection I'd throw it out. Back in their day, I and other mechanics found a lot of heads cracked and L/R's answer to this problem was the graduated water passages. This resulted in a lot less head cracking. As per previous advisers in this digest, make sure you do not install headgaskets backwards; the smallest passages go to the front of the engine and the largest to the rear. none Rich, Thanks for the correction. If anyone has the correct answer to a problem it's probably you (heck, most of what I've learned I've gotten from you, except this). You've been servicing Rovers longer than I've been driving, and if not for your advice over the past few years, my Rover maintenance would have been a lot more difficult. When you mention heads cracking, was this in the vicinity of the rear cylinders (with the front getting more flow)? My reasoning for making that observation was that my rebuilt engine with the new graduated head gasket ran significantly warmer and warmed up more quickly than the old engine with the full flow passages. I also figured that they may want it to run warmer to reduce the emissions output. I hadn't known about the head cracking problem, though. Was it that with the old gaskets the back cylinders were getting less flow, but enough coolant was passing over the temperature sensor and thermostat so that this was not evident? Just curious. ---------------------- John, Sorry I couldn't respond direct. The lro list scrambles the original address for my mailer, but I've got a question on your snorkle kit: none Now I have to modify the oil bath filter to accept the flex-tube. This will not be hard since I had to cut a 6" piece of the ridgid tube due to it's increased height from my modification. A friend can braze this piece onto the oil bath air cleaner and it will join with the inner fender flex tube very nicely. none Doesn't the kit come with a revised sealed air cleaner that the flex tubes just slip onto? Does it come through the top of the fender then go in through the inner portion of the wing? Thanks Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From RedBack176@aol.com Sun Feb 19 12:53:40 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:53:40 -0500 From: RedBack176@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest siezed valves; thoughts basic, not necessarily specific. hope we don't catch it. since it seems by historical recollection that the stems were readily accepted by the guides, and proper assembly with proped parts was accomplished, (I would never delete or not replace faulty valve stem seals. By definitions of the word seal, they either belong in a circus or between two environments. There are people working in factories making 'em for LR's - must be a reason. Use 'em) Was adequate lubrication at initial start-up provided for? "Never torque a dry bolt" (Red Roger, Trident Motorcycles (Norton) Boulder, Colorado, sometime late 60's). By extension, never assemble dry. Aticipate and provide for 0.0001 engine hours! Assemble with new/good parts. (Are the parts from various purveyors such that one should need to reem a new guide to receive a new valve? I would personally afford a bit more for better products when it comes to accessibility such as in the case of a valve.). Cleanliness. ( Thought: In the dark ages, surgeons washed up after medical operations, not prior to.) Check everything. Be fanatical. Fire. Shut down. Check. Verify. Restart. Listen. Look. Check. Do it once, do it right. It's start-up. A new life is created. Maybe a new incarnation of an old friend! Man! I love Rovers! Thanks for letting me be doing this. Survey w/o form: 88" LR - 60 II, 61 IIa, 68 IIa, 71 IIa (available) P5 - 60 Mk I Coupe, lhd, 4spd W/OD P6 - 68 2000 Sc auto, 68 2000 TC Help in finding vendors of 'Road' Rover parts is greatly welcomed. From Sanna@aol.com Sun Feb 19 13:02:11 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 13:02:11 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Boxes - Part 2 So.... When I got my RR, I was dismayed at its lack of storage. No glove box (actually I've gotten to really like the arrangement of the dash-well and the very large console storage compartment), just the loose rigid box & carpet cover for the spare, and the opposite shelf and loose carpet drape (really hokey). First, I reinforced the fiberboard spare cover with 1 x 1 aluminum angle strips and then made hidden brackets that fasten the box rigidly to the Rover's body. The jack handles were moved from the other side and fastened with quick-straps in the body recess just below the window, and a canvas bag holding jumper cables, block & tackle, wheel chocks, etc. was fastened with straps to the inside of the spare. There was also room for a set of collapsable traction ladders. Then I removed the carpet drape from the shelf on the other side and built a box of Honduran mahogany that uses the Rover's original shelf as a cap. It goes from the rear seat clip to the tail gate and is reinforced and fastened to the car with the same 1 x 1 aluminum angle stock. It contours over the wheel well, and in this awkward spot is where the sub woofer is mounted with it's amplifier just behind attached to the Rover's bulkhead. The door is cut out of the face of the wood, but rather than being hinged, it is velcroed in place with a rounded finger hole so that it can be pulled off completely. This gives the face an unbroken appearance, with just the outline of the door indicated by the width of the coping blade. This box holds the winch goodies, gloves, the jack in its original bungied position, spot light, tow bar, tow strap, car blanket, tools, etc. I had to do some after-the-fact sound deadening, however, since the sub-woof could really set some vibrations up in the wooden panels. The one thing I have not heard about the new RR is whether they have any additional storage space. From Mike Slade Sun Feb 19 11:23:52 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 11:23:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Mike Slade Subject: Transmission/V8 questions Dear Rover-philes, I am purchasing a 109 coilsprung from a fellow who rebuilds Rovers to spec. for what the customer wants. IUm sure you know the place, so I wonUt name names hoping to fight off a flame war. However, I am a novice about the more exotic components that I may have put on it, and come to the group collectively to ask for advice. IUm pretty sure that IUve settled on the 3.5 l V8. Now IUm unsure as to the different models. Is there a high compression and a low compression motor, or just one model? And, IUve heard about the 3.9l V8. Differences? Torque? Horsepower? Thirst??? My biggest decision is regarding the transmission. As the car will be coil sprung and have 110 drive train components, I have the choice between the LT77 (?) 5-speed, the old Range Rover automatic, or the newest style Range Rover automatic. Some things to consider are: Right hand drive. IUve kind of fallen for the romance of the English vehicle and want to have a right hand drive for whatever subconscious reasons there might be. Also, I think the added room in the right footwell will be nice. I do get off road alot and plan to put the vehicle through itUs paces on a pretty regular basis. As of yet, all of my 4WD vehicles (3 Troopers and an 88 Safari Wagon) have all had manual transmissions. IUm very confident with a stick off-road, but have never driven anything with an automatic off-road. Also, IUve been wondering about shifting with my left hand rather than right. I think that since IUll be the main driver of the vehicle IUll get used to it pretty quickly. However, my wife will drive it quite a bit, and with a baby on the way IUm wondering how easy it will be for her as well as myself to deal with a baby in the backseat combined with the newness of shifting with the left hand. Will I compromise control with an automatic? What about towing/climing? Do the different models have different virtues/pitfalls? Also, tyres. I have pretty much stuck with GoodYear Wranglers and have been pretty pleased with them on my Troopers. My 88 has Dunlop Mud Rover 16 inch tyres on it and I am really surprized at the places that little Rover will get me to and out of! If I had known about Land-Rovers earlier I wouldnUt have wasted so much time with Isuzu. I have an inkling that other than the tyres being so much more aggressive, that it is the vehicle that is superior as well! Oh, and this raised air intake IUve been hearing about has me very intrigued. Can it be fitted to a V8? Is it practical if you donUt do much wading? IUve only been in water above the hood a couple of times in one of my Troopers, and IUm not so sure how much wading IUll do in my 109, but it sure would look neat on this truck thatUs being built, and I guess itUs better safe than sorry eh? Well, as usual any advice would be more than appreciated and thanked for. Sincerely, Michael Slade P.S. I just happen to be watching 'Mogambo' on PBS. How appropriate to be watching that and writings this! From David John Place Sun Feb 19 13:08:59 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 13:08:59 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Valve problems I was beginning to think I was the only one who ever rebuilt a Land Rover and had the back valve stick within the first 20 miles and bend a push rod. On the maiden trip of a few blocks from my garage, the back valve stuck and the push rod slipped out from under the rocker, after it bent. I was able to straighten it out and use it for a few weeks till I got another from my part machine and install it. I did however find the round lifter slightly our of round when I mic'd it and I thought it might have caused the valve to go slightly out of adjustment when the lifter slide hit the low spot on the lifter. Now I am not so sure it wasn't the problem you all seem to have had, because I had installed new valve guides and I just assumed they were factory correct. Dave VE4PN From "T.F. Mills" Sun Feb 19 17:31:31 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 17:31:31 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: USA Today? Does anybody have USA Today for FEb. 15 & 16 on hand? There was supposed to be a story on the US Camel Trophy trials, but I missed those days. It was not in the Feb. 17 edition. TIA for checking. (My library doesn;t get that paper.) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Dixon Kenner Sun Feb 19 19:40:37 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 19:40:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: test Taylor, I'm sufficiently bored, recently out of Guinness to answer your incredibly naive (especially since you claim to have a book on Land Rovers, though it is short on glossy colour pics.) question about differences in pre and post 1968 Land Rovers. Rather than give you the short answer that is sure to fly in your eyes and out the back of your head, I'll feed enough down your optic nerve that some is sure to stick. Hopefully, when you look at the pictures you might develop some Sherlockian traits and see that they do not all look alike. I'll leave it to the rest of the list to fall upon the following for errors (I am sure there are some) and feed me the stuff that I missed. Enjoy... Rgds, Dixon =================================================================== What Land Rovers were built, how to tell them apart. (No Taylor, like the Austin Mini they don't all look alike) A general overview... To tell various Land Rovers apart without ever opening the bonnet there are several guidelines that one can follow to determine what Land Rover you happen to be looking at. To determine what year the Land Rover might have been built in, requires a bit more attention to detail and the owner might not appreciate coming out and seeing you buried in the engine bay looking to see if that head is a 7:1 or 8:1 compression ratio. Several proviso's should be born in mind with this guide. Firstly, it assumes that the vehicle is still more or less original. Bear in mind that it is possible to mix and match a great number of the parts described below between the various Series. Secondly, this guide is primarily aimed at Canadian Land Rovers, and for the most part American Land Rovers. Differences between Canadian and American versions is generally in dealer options fitted and tend to be internal (ie: Kodiak heater). As with the American vehicles, British Land Rovers will be very similar. Canadian Series III's are distinguished as Canadian vehicles on the emissions spec. plate. Distinguishing features by type (looking outside the vehicle): To start, the easiest thing to look for is the headlights and grill: - If they are on the front of the wings, you are probably looking at a Series III. If they are inboard, it will be a Series I, II, or IIA. However, if the front grill does not happen to be made of plastic, with the name "Land Rover" moulded into it, it is not a Series III, but a late Series IIA. - If the headlights are recessed into the radiator grill, look at how the headlights are mounted. If the grill covers the headlamps, you are looking at an early Series I 80". If the headlights come through the grill, but the grill still covers the entire radiator panel, you are looking at a later 80". The headlight/grill arrangement from the 86" to the Series IIA was identical. Look at the wings: - If there is no side light, it is an early Series I 80". (Note: the side light was on the top corner of the bulkhead) - If there is a single side light, it is a Series I late-80", 86", 88", or 107" - If there are a pair of side lights on each side, horizontally mounted, it is a Series II or IIA vehicle. (if vertically mounted is a military vehicle?) - If there is no seam between the top and front piece, it is a Series I 80" (Note: wings between the 80" & 86 are different and not interchangeable.) - If the seam between the wing top and front piece is below the curve, it is a Series I 86" or 88" - If the seam between the wing top and front piece is above the curve, it is a Series II through III. - Series I 86" through early IIA had wing mounted mirrors. - If there is a single marker reflector on the side of the wing, it is a transitional Series IIA. - If there is a single marker light on the side of the wing, it is a late Series IIA or a Series III (Marker lights on the Series III wings denote Canadian Land Rovers) If possibly a Series II or IIA, look at the steering arms: - Series II steering arms connect to the swivel ball hub via an arm on the top, above the axle. - Series IIA steering arms connect to the swivel ball hub via an arm on the bottom, below the axle. Look at the bonnet: Impossible to tell, deluxe, tire mount etc were more options, and changing to a deluxe style bonnet is a popular conversion by owners. Look at the doors: - If the doors are flat, it is a Series I (or a lightweight, but that is a whole different kettle of fish). If the doortop has a leather piece to open the door from the inside (no exterior handle) it is an early Series I. If the doortop is solid (has an exterior handle) it is a later Series I. - If the doors are rounded at the waistline, it is a Series II, IIA, or III vehicle. - If the keyhole in the drivers door is in the panel, it is a late IIA or a III. Prior to this, the keyhold in the latch mechanism. Look at the door hinges: - Series I hinges are long, flat, and thin metal not unlike a farm gate hinge. - Series II and IIA hinges protrude from the body, especially the top hinge. - Series III hinges are flat, very thick metal hinges. - Later Series IIA and III top hinge mounts also mount the driver's side mirror. (This is not a reliable method of dating a vehicle as they have been changed around by owners over time. Look at the sills under the wing/door/front of rear box: - If the vehicle does not have sills (and assuming they have not been removed, the vehicle is a Series I. - If the vehicle has sills, and the sills are rather wide, in the order of four inches tall it is a Series II or early IIA vehicle. - If the vehicle has sills, and the sills are narrow, in the order of two inches, the vehicle is a late IIA or a III. Looking at the rear of the vehicle: - If the lights are "D" shaped, it is an early Series I (Europe only) / Tall steel sided shallow lens; export Series I - short sided, rounded lens with "ears" for screws is on a early Series II - short sided, pointed lens, chrome base is on a Series IIA - tall, with a rounded top. Late IIA and III only & only NA series IIA and III. - If there are large amber turn singles, it is a North American Series III. If a pick-up version: - If the pick-up top is flat, angled and rising to the rear with three ridges running for to aft, it is a Series I. - If the pick-up top is rounded, it is a Series II, IIA, or III. Distinguishing features by type (looking inside the vehicle through the windows): Look at the dash panel: - If it has rounded ends, centre mounted row of gauges it is a 80" - If it is a large rectangular panel; mounted in the centre; and painted body colour, it is an 86" through early IIA. - If it is a large, centre mounted, black panel, it is a late Series IIA. - If it is plastic, instruments in front of the driver, it is a Series III. Window locks (doors): - Series II and IIA windows lock with a metal bolt-like piece at the top of the window. - Series III locks at the bottom with a vertically sliding tab from within the doortop base panel. Seats: - Early Series I seats were shovel backed, later were flat square seats. - Series II through IIA were thick padded, grey naugahyde seats. - Late Series IIA seats were a black deluxe style seat. - Series III seats are black, in the same style as the late IIA but a different grain. Rear Seats: - The Series I had separate, individual, rear seats opposed to the inward facing bench seats for two found in the Series II, IIA, and III's. II and IIA benches are grey in colour, Late Series IIA & III are black. Late rear seats in Safari's Windscreen Motors: - Series I vehicles have two windscreen mounted motors that are angular in design. - Series II through early IIA vehicles have two windscreen mounted motors that have rounded sides. Front fresh air vents: - Series I open with a knob that pushes, or pulls, depending on whether they are opening or closing - Series II open with a large round knob that turns. - Series IIA and III opens with a sliding knob. (IIA and III differ slightly in design) - Note: From the outside Series I fresh air vents have square ends, while Series II on have rounded ends. Distinguishing features by Series: - Series I (General): Flat door hinges. No sills. A single marker light on the front of the wing. The windscreen is taller than on later vehicles. The most famous Series I is the "AntiChrist" that stars in the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" - Series I 80": The doors are tapered. Earlier 80"s have the headlamps behind the galvanised metal grill, later 80" have them peeking through the metal grill. The instrument panel on an 80" is vertically narrow with rounded ends. The fresh airvents are square ended. There are no side sills. - Series I 86": The instrument panel is similar to a Series II or IIA, being a large rectangular panel in the centre of the dashboard. The doors on the 86" are not tapered like the 80", but are straight. There are no sills under the doors. - Series II: The Series II has sills under the wing/door/box section. The waist is curved, bulging out from under the side windows. There are a pair of side lights on the front of the wings horizontally mounted. For the observant, the dash vents on the earlier Series II are opened with a large round crank knob. The steering differs in that the steering arms are above the axle, unlike below on the Series IIA. - Early Series IIA: Headlamps are on the radiator panel. Tall sills under the doors, about four inches in height. Steering tie rods connect under the axles. Dash is painted body colour. Separate windscreen wiper motors. Mirrors on the wings. - Later Series IIA: Headlamps are on the wings, but the radiator panel is covered by a metal galvanised grill (after 1969). The later Series IIA had a single, single speed, windshield motor (after 1967). The instrument panel is painted black, and not body colour as on earlier vehicles. The sill panels are narrower, being approximately two inches tall, unlike the much wider panels on the earlier IIA's. (1969-71 door latches changed, changed again for III). Mirrors on the top door hinge. - Series III: Headlights on the front of the wings, a plastic grill and name badge. Other distinguishing features on a Series III will be the fascia and instruments. The Series III sported a revised fascia in black plastic where the instrumentation was moved from the centre of the dash to be in front of the driver. The door hinges are thick and flat, with a mirror mounted on the top hinge. The Series III has a single two speed wiper motor. - Lightweight: Flat sided with very large wheel arches. The front bumper sports overriders, the rear crossmember is rectangular in shape, not being narrow on the ends and angled to a thick centre like regular Land Rovers. The wings are sharp edged, and the bonnet is square cornered, unlike the curved edges on regular Land Rovers. Headlamps are on the wings and have two vertically mounted side lights to the outside. There is no visible opening for refueling, being under the seat like early Land Rovers. The doors are tapered From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Mon Feb 20 00:47:07 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 00:47:07 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: Transmission/V8 questions > Differences? (minor) Torque? (slighlty more) >Horsepower? (slightly more) Thirst??? go figure, rover hasn't broken the laws of thermodynamics yet...ergo bigger = more power = thirstier 3.5, lower compression (1970's), 3.5 higher compressions (1980's), I think there might have been a 3.8, the latest is the 3.9, injected. Of course, you forgot the mention the tdi diesel, but you'd only want that if you're going to use driving though muddy fields and other places that you wouldn't want to walk through... (hey folks, did you see the used tdi with box for GBP 2700 in the Feb LRO ?) but I digress, that's another discussion, look back in the last few digests and there will be lots of scribbling about tdi's As for gearboxes, I saw a very keen 90 Automatic (an Ascroft conversion), (fresh from the shop Friday) at the Chiltern Vale ROC RTV today. Unfortunately, it wasn't up shifting properly and it cost him some points. >Some things to consider are: Right hand drive. Well, I presume you're in the states... *read though the next couple paragraphs, and then I'll make the point* Yeah, I'm sure you'll love it when you get to the toll boths and parking lots and the drive-up window at burger king. Just roll down the passenger window and toss the change out. >However, my wife will drive it quite a bit, and with a baby on the way IUm >wondering how easy it will be for her as well as myself to deal with a baby in >the backseat combined with the newness of shifting with the left hand. I haven't had to drive with the wheel on the wrong side of the vehicle, for the road. And I can't say I'm looking forward to it. shifting with the opposite hand isn't too bad, I mean, you've written with the wrong hand before ? And, presuming that you have other, normal vehicles in the stable, you'll probably have a tougher time remembering that the turn signal is also on the wrong side. oops. windscreen wipers don't let the oncoming traffic know you're turning left in front of them... How good are you at parallel parking on the left hand side of the road ? In general, what is the 'odd' case - where you're trying to end up with your butt a foot from the kerb becomes the 'normal' case when you're driving a vehicle with the wrong side drive. Ok, so you can practice that too, and it isn't a big deal, 'cause you can take as long as you want to park, or find another space. now, the worser part of all this is that in your years of driving, you've gotten used to sitting with your butt in the middle of the road, or nearly so. You've got a decent view about right hand turns, and you can see that the oncoming lane is clear when you go to pass that VW bus that always slows down on the grade, but can barely keep the limit on the flat. and now you've got that V-8 coil sprung 109", passing that bus becomes a reality, but you can't see around him, 'cause you'd have to stick your vehicle entirely in front of oncoming traffic just to see around the bus. Even if you have a CB, the 18 wheeler won't tell you if it is clear, they can't take that responsibility. Now, you look down to change the radio station, grab the radar detector, that can of cola, and you let your learned sense of where you are on the road, and your peripheral vision guide you for a couple seconds. Except you're learned sense is that your butt is just to the right of the center of the road, and now you've got four feet of vehicle to the left of that. That's what you probably do for normal distractions. You're never really concerned with the radio station, or the thirst, if you're peripheral vision caught something amiss, you'd just knock it down in the passenger foot well and return your attention to driving. *** A large part of your perception in vehicle handling has to do with where the vehicle is about **you**, and where you are in relation to the road. by going to a right-hand drive vehicle in a right-side driving country, you are making two major changes and if you have to swap between this odd ball car and a normal one... good luck to the opposing traffic, unless its bigger than you are, then good luck to you. >Oh, and this raised air intake people fit 'em to petrol engines, but once your distributor gets wet you're hosed. they're more functional on diesels 'cause there is not really any ignition system to get wet. If you like fording water, a better enhancement might be to remove the mechanical fan, and replace it with electric ones you can turn off. (1) you really didn't want to suck that mud, silt and pond scum through your radiator, (2) the mechanical fan will do an awesome job of spraying water all over the engine, which, if you have an ignition system, is something you probably didn't want to do. PS: all you ' (single quotes) look like U (capital 'U') Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 19 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 19 Feb 95 20:03:34 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: manuals Richard the Haynes manuals are not very accurate in thier presentation of data. i have seen so many errors in them, some of the pictures ( many of which are rover copies ) are quite useful. the standard fuel tank on a 68 2a holds 10 imperial gallons. there are a lot of copies on the market some of which may hold slightly more, or less. suggest you drain it and refill. for fuel measurement purposes for mileage calculations etc. the best method is to work from fill to fill, fill it to the same level each time, Regards Bill Leacock limey in exile From "T.F. Mills" Sun Feb 19 18:43:55 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:43:55 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: REVIEW: The Great Adventure It's been mentioned here before, but it's worth a review anyway: THE GREAT ADVENTURE Lausanne, Switzerland : SQP, 1993. 206 p. $65 The adventure in question is the Camel Trophy, the "Olympics of 4 wheel drive", and this very handsome book is a welcome (albeit pricey) addition to any Camel and Land Rover aficionado's library. But, if you are looking for a comprehensive history of the event, this is not where you will find it. This officially sanctioned production (conceived by Eric Tschumi, directed by Claire Vauthier-Neyroud and Bruno Maumene, and produced by Michel Parvis) is a caption-free large-format (24x35 cm.) photo book of stunning quality, supplemented by a short paragraph in English, French and German presenting a thumbnail sketch of each Camel Trophy from the first in 1980 through the fourteenth in 1993. An appendix lists all the teams and results. Completed in Dec. 1993, the book includes a section on the 1994 Andean event, including photos of vehicles scouting the route, but obviously no results. The first Camel Trophy used Jeeps and consisted of only three German teams, who would never have guessed that they would capture the imagination of many nations and create a world-renowned annual event. Since then, up to twenty nations have participated, always using Land Rover products, from Range Rovers to Ninetys and One-Tens (and one instance of Series III 88s). The 1990 Siberian event introduced the Discovery which has been used ever since. With few exceptions, the events have been held in tropical jungles. Among the stunning photos are a stupendous bridge-building feat in Brazil, a Zairean gorilla studying the Rover convoy as it enters the depths of the jungle, a driver up to his shoulders in water in Borneo, the Swiss team giggling atop their overturned 110 in Australia, and the Dutch Disco falling through a make-shift bridge in Sabah, not to mention scores of other seemingly unsolvable problems -- which were all solved by the team spirit, ingenuity and cooperation that is the Camel Trophy adventure. The book can be special-ordered through bookstores, or direct from the publisher: Camel Trophy--SQP SA P.O. Box 129 1025 St. Sulpice Switzerland tel 41.21.691.05.95 fax 41.21.691.06.00 (41 is the country code for Switz.) They accept Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Diners. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Craig Murray Mon Feb 20 12:46:09 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 12:46:09 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Snorkel Hi, I used a 2.5 diesel air cleaner, and had the snorkle made up at an exhaust place, basically the air cleaner sits on the battery plate and uses an elbow to go out under the wing, then another elbow to come up through the wing, then one more elbow to make it so it runs ontop of the wing, all the elbows are rubber, and then the snorkle is fixed to the bulkhead by the bolt that hold the windscreen on, it came up pretty good! Oh, and it only to about an hour to fabricate!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Craig Murray Mon Feb 20 12:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 12:49:00 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Dow down, Rovers up > On another note, there is also a 1966 Nissan Patrol advertised > in the Chron. selling for $5000. It is actually parked near my [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > are a hassle. Anyone familiar with these rigs? > Morgan Those pieces of junk! I'm amased it hasn't rusted away. These things have a 3 speed gear box, and most of the ones I've seen out here have had motor and gear box transplants, and alot of them have Land Rover roofs fitted to them so they don't rust out so quick. So in summary, I would not touch one with a 10' pole!!!!! But thats my opinion. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | Systems Administrator | Ambition is a poor excuse for not having CP Software | the sense to be lazy. 1st Floor | 493 St Kilda Road | -- Charlie McCarthy Melbourne VIC 3004 | mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | Note: I do not take any responcibility for spelling mistakes. flames > /dev/null From Sanna@aol.com Sun Feb 19 20:57:04 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 20:57:04 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: ...the last questions... You could always toss a coin. ...might work with your girlfriend too. Let's go over this ONE MORE TIME, Taylor. a) Get a late '60's IIa, they are the apex of Roverdom. b) Do what you want with the engine, but don't over power it! (I'd still recommend a good 2.25). c) Put the spare where ever you want (if you get a wagon it can go on the rear door as well). d) Get a rag top if you enjoy the sun, tropical if you don't. e) Military sounds interesting, but certainly not essential. f) Forget the whole thing and buy yourself a nice Buick (17 speaker stereo, plush velour seating, vanity mirrors, a little light in the glove box, a glove box, air conditioning, heat, roll-up windows, a rear bumper, cigarette lighter, remote hood latch, two-tone horn, and chrome). From JFisk1120@aol.com Sun Feb 19 22:03:45 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:03:45 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: It's a bouncing boy!!! We are proud to announce the latest addition to our Rover family.... Length: 109" Weight: 2,980 lbs (not counting loaded with all the spares) and in it's birthday suit (bare aluminum) Born: Orginally in 1970 but it's a born-again Rover!! Where: Champaign, Illinois but adopted today in St. Louis, Missouri Name: Safari Joining: Older sister, 1964 Land Rover 88" Series II (LION B8) Older brother, 1991 Range Rover County (The Colonel) Thanks again Marcus for posting on the Rover Net that you had this vehicle for sale. The pictures were a little scary...a mechanic's delight....but we are looking forward to the restoration and will forward photos when it is complete. I sent pictures of the rest of our family so you would know it was going to a good home! If anyone wants to stop by and help....some assembly required!! Jan Fisk "No longer braking for mud puddles" Springfield, Missouri From "T.F. Mills" Sun Feb 19 20:52:03 1995 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 20:52:03 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Matchbox toy review This is the one Uncle Roger mentioned not too long ago: Land Rover Auxiliary YFE02 Fire Engine series, Matchbox Collectibles, 1994 1:43 scale If your full-scale vehicle is not enough, and you feel a need to collect all sorts of other Rover paraphernalia, or if you are an avid Rover toy collector, this one is a must buy. It is offered as one of six in the Matchbox fire engine series, available by subscription for $24.50 each (plus $1.95 shipping), but is also available singly. The model is a superbly detailed and painted (down to the galvanized trim and hinges) bright red 80" Series One decked out with ladder, hoses, pump, floodlight and trailer. The box describes it as a 1948, but the bottom of the model more accurately identifies it as a 1952. The accompanying documentation notes that "rural fire brigades in South Africa and Australia adapted this tough little British four wheel drive vehicle into a wide variety of fire fighting units. It could get through rough terrain to the heart of a scrub fire while its built-in power take off drive could pump water from a nearby stream." The 1:43 scale makes it larger than the traditional Matchbox scale and identical to the old Dinky Toys. In fact, this model is suspiciously similar to the 1989 Dinky model (during the latte's brief revival) of a 1949 Series One yellow AA Land Rover. Both are made in China, and the main parts are clearly cast from the same mold. Different plastic grilles on the two metal bodies are an indication of the attention to detail. Order from Matchbox Collectibles, PO Box 639, Portland, OR 97207-0639 or 1-800-858-0102. Supplies may be limited and tFrom Mr Ian Stuart Mon Feb 20 08:03:28 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 08:03:28 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: FIND BILL LANG There is no "Lang" in the SLROC championships, nor at the last RTV ..... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Feb 20 08:30:11 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 08:30:11 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: The Car's the Star > The program ends with Quentin Wilson stating that his job of working with > cars tends to leave one jaded, but after 10 days with all types of Land Rovers > and having driving 'bout a dozen of them, he's hooked and it closes with > him driving off in a Series I soft top OCY 233. Acording to the Top Gear magazine, Quentin has bought a LWB - I will try to get more details... > Sorry, but I don't have a copy, as I don't have video, and I didn't even try > to arrange for it... but, if somebody else in the UK got it down, or can id > when it repeats, I do have a friend in the states who can do a PAL to NTSC > conversion. Bill - give me time to copy the program onto my "Iceland" tape & I'll send you my 1st generation tape.... > OWS 290 'restorable' SI LWB Safari, owned by Tom Conti (moss growing on drip > rails, etc., apparently original owner... I got the impression that he bought it second-hand (he said "We painted it by hand") > Dunsfold LR Trust - Phillip Bashall with: > SAS pink panther [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > the wader > the forest model There was also a cuthbertson tracked 109. BTW - Lix Toll garage also have a tracked 109 & Bog Walker (aka the forest model) Lix Toll are about 2 hours drive north of Edinburgh.... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Feb 20 19:22:49 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 19:22:49 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Snorkels ? Ok I think I missed the original post but I gather TerriAnn (hi) wants a snorkel. If looks are not (or maybe are) a concern what about 80mm PVC sewer pipe??? You need 1x90 deg 2x45 deg and some straight stuff, cleaner, glue. Get an off-cut of 3" anodised pipe and silicon/rivet into the ends and you can go straight onto 3" flexible rubber fittings under the bonnet and use a Ram-air intake or a cyclonic pre-cleaner interchangably at just above windscreen height. Also adapts well to wing mounted 8" Donaldson type filters. Actually looks OK and is a great conversation piece once people realise that its sewer pipe. (had several people ask where I got it from, interesting looks once ya tell em, specially if you add that the material is second-hand.) Think about it it really does fit with the image of a functional vehicle. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Richard Jones Mon Feb 20 10:25:53 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 10:25:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: First time here Mark Perry writes: none [...] > 2. The Economist magazine of Feb.11 has a piece about pressure to U.K. > and Euro-pressure to ban crash/roo/bull/brush bars for increased injury > and damage in pedestrian and vehicle collisions. Land Rover is cited as > denying their bars are dangerous. I hear nothing of this in U.S. or > Canada. Comments? Didn't see this report, but the Land Rover line when asked in the past has been along the lines that, with the high bonnet line (and flat front) of their vehicles, it makes little or no difference whether there is a bullbar fitted or not to the type of injuries incurred. Another interesting comment made by Land Rover on this subject is that all the Genuine Parts BullBars are "Crash Tested" on the vehicles, and conform to the appropriate regulations/standards. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 08:09:37 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 08:09:37 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Fold Taylor - You answered your own question. If you get a station wagon (full rear door) the truck still comes with all the fixings to hang a tail gate. I used to do just this. Every Spring & Fall I would make the switch untill I finally just tossed the hard top. It doesn't take much to switch them back & forth. The car does relax a bit without the hard top on, so I found that I would have to compress it (park next to a tree and squeeze the side of the truck in with the Hi Lift) to get a good fit with hard top in the Fall. Later in life I went through the same yearly routine, but by removing the canvas, windows, hoops, and folding the windscreen in the Spring. Hey Taylor, you can do the same thing to a Buick with a cutting torch. From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 08:13:18 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 08:13:18 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: I see a RANGE ROVER in my future < Btw, how much does your RR service mechanics charge for labor?> I just have a good general mechanic who has worked on all my cars for years. He seems to do well with the RR and charges $30 - $40/hr. I don't know exactly. I just pay the bills & they usually aren't all that much. From dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) Mon Feb 20 08:50:39 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 08:50:39 EST From: dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) Subject: discovery lights I own a 94 US Discovery. I beleive the canadian and ? european models have running lights that come on automatically when you turn the car on and off when you turn it off. Does anyone know a simple way to convert mine to this mode. Volvo's have a hidden switch for example. Thanks From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 20 09:26:31 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 09:26:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Hasn't he bought one yet?! On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu wrote: > It's me again... :) Get a tailgate from somewhere with associated hardware. Rgds, From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 09:58:19 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 09:58:19 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Did it to myself Hey, can anyone solve this one for me? Yesterday I took the RR ('89) to a spray car wash to blow off some of the winter mud. Getting enthused by the whole process, I raised the hood and blew off the engine, which promptly died on me. After about a half hour in the sun with the hood up ( a balmy Wisconsin afternoon in the mid 40's) it started right up and I drove off. Now it's 8am, everything is dewy and frosty with the temp in the lower 30's, and whatever water is now condensated in whatever part, the truck won't get me to work. I'm going to go outside with a hair blower, but does anyone have a suggestion on what part I screwed up. Thanks. - Tony From Mike Rooth Mon Feb 20 15:20:36 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 15:20:36 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: First time here Yes,I heard about this "Crash-Testing".No idea what it implies, though. I would havr thought that *any* 4X4 would make a thorough mess of anyone it thumped,bullbar or not,as Land Rover say. Isnt it about time that the powers that be started to point out to pedestrians(and others),that the path of an oncoming vehicle is not the place to be for long life and happiness,and to *keep off the road*.For instance,in and around this town,the local authority has spent thousands of pounds to create a cycle track, in order to keep cyclist and motorised traffic apart.Fair enough, its my money,but I dont object.So what happens?The stupid buggers *still* ride on the road,AND without lights in the dark.There really *does* have to be a limit to the drivers responsibility for these twerps.And when was the last time you saw anyone collared for jaywalking?Might be different in the States,but over here the situation has gone past farce.For heavens sake,you *cannot* protect prats from themselves. Signed, Livid of Loughborough, (Mike Rooth) From JFisk1120@aol.com Mon Feb 20 10:32:17 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 10:32:17 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: Paint codes needed Recently someone posted the paint codes for Rover colors. Of course at the time I thought I would never need them and did not save them. If someone would email me those at JFisk1120@aol.com, I would appreciate it. Thanking you in advance. Jan Fisk From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 20 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 20 Feb 95 10:35:35 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Guinnes for Dixon Quick, someone get Dixon some more Guinness. If he sobered up, we'd never get any answers to Land Rover questions! ;-) From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 20 08:15:37 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 08:15:37 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Best Rover? (how to start a fight?) In message <950217165616_24695635@aol.com> writes: > the relative merits of the modern versus the old. > Gotcha ;-) But we all know that the LAST word is: REAL ROVERS HAVE METAL > DASHBOARDS! none My hope is that the last of the real Land Rovers has yet to be designed and may not for a l O N G time. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 20 08:47:23 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 08:47:23 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re:the list+Early RRs In message <199502180228.VAA04836@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> William Caloccia writes: > January 1995: 360+ subscribers > During 1993, the number of people on the list grew to 80, 86, 88, 90, 100, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > 1 April 1991: Team.Net domain applied for > March 1991: 27 people AH that explains all the traffic. Seems not all that long ago this list could go a whole month without a message. Then someone would send one out & there would be 2 or 4 followups to the thread & back to silence. Things have changed a mite. William, if you can tell how many people there were can you tell who they were? I can't remember exactly when I joined the list, but I think there is a possiblility I may have been one of those 27 bodies. Oblig. subject mater: lately I have been wondering about early Range Rovers in the US. It seems to me that there are some early seventies Range Rovers in the US, though I never see them mentioned anymore. Did Rover sell RRs in the US in the early seventys then stop or were they individually imported from somewhere? Also, does anyone know the spec differences between the early Range Rovers that ended up in the US and the current long four door luxury Range ROvers? Would someone care to educate a Range Rover neophite? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 11:50:43 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 11:50:43 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Tops Just get the canvas, Taylor. Simplify your life. It'll get complicated soon enough. (but install a Mansfield or Kodiak heater). From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 20 12:11:41 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:11:41 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re:the list+Early RRs On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > lately I have been wondering about early Range Rovers in the US. It seems to me > that there are some early seventies Range Rovers in the US, though I never see [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > the spec differences between the early Range Rovers that ended up in the US and > the current long four door luxury Range ROvers? Don't know about the USA, though I doubt any were brought in because of pollution problems, but a couple were imported into Canada by Rover/BL in '71 or there abouts before DOT up here decided they didn't like them for pollution reasons. There is one about 40 miles south of here, a second in Alberta that I know of. Everything else was imported by various individuals. (Remember, in Canada we can bring in anything we want, so long as it is at least 15 years old, so they could have been coming in here for the past ten years & probably have been.) As per spec differences, don't know off hand. Rgds, From Kumaravel Natarajan Mon Feb 20 11:20:05 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 11:20:05 -0600 (CST) From: Kumaravel Natarajan Subject: RHD to LHD conversion questions Does anyone know how much effort is involved in converting a vehicle from right-hand drive to left-hand drive? The vehicle in question will probably be a late 60's 109" IIa diesel. If I buy the vehicle in the UK as I'm planning to, does anyone have an idea of what additional parts I'll need to bring back with me to do the conversion and how much welding/cutting I'll need to do? If someone who has the time could detail all that would be needed to be done, I'd be very grateful. Vel From "DAVE MCKAIN" Mon Feb 20 12:34:49 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:34:49 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Kodiak Heaters, Seals, Rattles I have just completed putting my LR back together and have a few questions about rattles and the like. 1) When I turn on my heater the fan makes an awful noise. I suspect that the busing in the blower motor is failing. I would take it apart but it seems that the motor casing is rivited on. If possible, does anyone know where I might get a new busing if needed. 2) This question may negate the previous. I need to buy new door seals (66 88" SIIa) and am wondering if there is a generic seal material available. I would prefer rubber seal attached to a metal backing plate. The ones from RN seem a bit expensive. 3) In order to remove the windshield wipers and motors from the windscreen I had to partially destroy one of the splined busings on one of the shafts. I amy just braze the spline back on but am open to suggestions on repair, raplacement. (These are the old individual wiper motors) Hopefully she'll be on the road later in the week. I just need to pay taxes, inpection, registration and the like. Hope the warm weather (57 F yesterday) here in West Virginia holds up. Thanks. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From "DOUG SACKINGER" Mon Feb 20 12:30:26 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:30:26 EST From: "DOUG SACKINGER" Subject: Corrosion Hello I'm sure this question has been beat to death before but I didn't find answers in the FAQ. What remedies are there for corrosion. I've heard of galvanized frames. This seems like a great idea in the rustbelt. Do they also make galvanized bulkheads? doorframes? I don't know all of the steel parts by heart but I have seen the ravages of "the cancer" in other vehicles I have owned and want to avoid it at all (or most) costs.. What has the experience been in the severe salt/rust areas? I'm also interested in extreme cold weather performance and reliablility, perhaps some input from the Great White North ? Cracking seals Frost-plug heaters Circulating heaters Brittle metal (30 year old metal) at <40F Comfort with Kodiak heater at <40F Thanks Doug From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 20 09:31:51 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 09:31:51 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp) In message <19950217.82749E0.13CF9@tia.UUCP> C. Taylor Sutherland, III writes: > Subject: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions > Hi guys/gals... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > second piece that goes on top of the first piece. Looking at it from the > front, you see a gap. What is that? You have a pick up roof that fits on the two door models. There is a standard long roof with no frills. You have a safari roof that comes in two flavours, with and without roof vents. The safari roof has the two oval windows on each side and the sun shield. The shield is a second skin above the first held off the by plastic spacers. Its job is to shadow the real roof and keep tempratures down (You can get pickup tops with a sun shield). Then you have the Dormobile roof. It has a glass fibre pop up roof (same assembly as pre-'68 VW camper vans) and cots that sleep two <70 inch long people. You have an ambulance roof. Like a standard roof but it sits about a foot or so higher. If you look in the military option book I'm sure there are some various other varients of roof. Mind you I haven't mentioned the sides of roofs, just the tops (the sides are bolted to the tops). The side for the 4 door 109 & 88 are the same size. There is a common verson with a large retangular sliding window. Types that were not sold in the US include one without side windows and one with side windows that do not open. The 2 door 109 sides generally had 2 non-opening windows. There is a version not generally imported to the US that did not have side windows. > Spare: > On the hood, does it obstruct the view that much? > Questions: It only obstructs the very near view. It might be worth removing the times you are 4 wheeling in places where you need to be extreamly carefull about where you put your wheels. The tyre does obstruct air flow to the scuttle vents though. On real hot days I have been known to move the tyre off the bonnet just to get better air flow through the scuttle vents. Otherwise its an OK place to mount the tyre & great for stares from passerbys. > If the spare isn't on the hood, where > does it go in the 88" with the rear inward facing seats. On an 88, the mounting places are bonnet, rear door if one is fitted, spare tyre mount on inside bench behind front seats (depression in bench & attachment mech. mounts tyre upright against inside side of body- common in pickup configuration), mounted to back of bulkhead behind front seats. > Years: > Other than the head lamps, is there any difference between the years '68 > back and '69 and forward? none Pre'66 do not need to be SMOG tested in the US. The late LRs have a single wiper motor that works MUCH better than the two individual wiper motors. The toggle switches of the later cars are more dependable than the push pull earlier ones. the contacts on the push pull ones are exposed and tend to oxidize over time. They can easliy be cleaned, its just one more thing to do. > I like the look of the center lights, but has > anybody found that they get in the way of winches and the like? Winches are mounted lower than headlamps, so clearence is not a problem. > Tranny: > Is it true that while Series III has syncromesh on all gears, it is > prone to more failures? What about the rest of the beast? none The series III has an all syncro transmision while the series II does not have syncro in first or second (Like old trucks with a grany first gear). The III boxes are reputed to be weaker, but will last if you are careful to make sure the shift leaver stops briefly in the neutral position when changing gears. It is not a transmission for the speed shifter. > What? Help me out. > Is it true that while Series III has syncromesh on all gears, it is Best to just go out & look at a number of Land Rovers. find out about LR events in your area & make the trip to see them. > I think that's enough to chew on for now. Thanks for your patience. > Taylor > prone to more failures? What about the rest of the beast? none Save this document as:^OSave a copy in:Show ClipboardHide Clipboard Undo <<<>>> Redo <<<>>>(Unable to From Tom Stevenson Mon Feb 20 17:33:29 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 17:33:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Zinc poisoning My chickens eat and drink out of galvanized containers without any apparent ill effects. However, I never let them play with matches, so their food & drink is always cold. Also, they only last a couple of years before they end up in the pot; perhaps this is not enough time for brain damage to show up in a chicken. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 13:43:14 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:43:14 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Corrosion Contact Tim at Doug Shipman's (Ship's Mechanical) in Portland, OR. He seems to know an amazing amount about LR's. His LR has 400k from commuting the AlCan Highway. He lives in Alaska for most of the year, but spends his winters fixing LR's in Oregon. 503-252-5566 From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 20 11:58:09 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 11:58:09 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Hasn't he bought one yet?! In message <203ba74b.b32ac-taylors@tia.hubcap.clemson.edu> C. Taylor Sutherland, III writes: > It's me again... :) > I got a question about vertical hinged wagon rear doors. If one were to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > Oh well, there was another question but I seem to have forgotten it. :) > Talk later > Taylor Taylor Consider the Land ROver to be a big tinker toy set. If you have a LR W/ hard top and rear door & want to go topless, you unbolt rear door then top. Put tail gate on, or get one of those net tailbates that pick up owners use to reduce drag and increase petrol milage. Mind you I have a 109 with safari roof and tailgate top & bottom openings. I just unbolt the top & carry the top & tailgate top off. No big deal. Anything is possible in a Land Rover to those who believe it is and has the right tools. Are you eventually going to get board asking questions and actually go out & look at some Land Rovers? Looking at a group of them will answer many more questions than you have asked so far. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 20 15:01:18 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 15:01:18 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Rover genetics! Hi Michael, Does this mean that there really is a HealeyVolvoRoveritus gene!, and is there any way it can be detected at birth? Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse.net - currently under restoration From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 20 14:57:00 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 14:57:00 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RHD to LHD conversion questions On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, Kumaravel Natarajan wrote: > If I buy the vehicle in the UK as I'm planning to, does anyone have an > idea of what additional parts I'll need to bring back with me to do > the conversion and how much welding/cutting I'll need to do? Hmmm, good question... Off the top of my head you need to move the pedals from one side to the other. While the boxes will just move over, you may beed to drill dome holes for the bolts in the LH side. You will need more hydraulic line to run the fluid over to the other side. I am not sure how the RHD accelerator mounts on the RHD, so expect some drilling. ALl the parts should be the same. The steering column is going to give you the most trouble. You are going to have to get a LHD steering box, inner column, main nut assembly, leads for the horn & indicator lights, brackets are shown to be different in the parts manual, support bracket (537533), stiffener bracket (504272). Find this stuff in the USA on a dead LR. The steering relay is going to have to get moved from the RHS of the front crossmember to the LHS. You will have to do welding here. Hand Brake lever needs to be moved. You will need the crossover pieces, mounting brackets etc. to handle this. There are quite a few parts to this, so the cheapest route will be to either leave it where it is, or find one on a dead LHD vehicle. That's all off hand... Rgds, From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 13:35:08 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:35:08 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Tops Or is it, Taylor "If you wanted to get a life, you'd simplify your Buick"? No, just make sure you get your IIa with the power canvas top option. The manual one will definitely not simplify your life. From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 20 13:59:14 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:59:14 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: welcome and gearshift rattle Thanks Robin, for the welcome. I have been ROVING the NET since last October (its amazing what can be found on the net) and still find the LRO Digest to be one of the "gems" on the NET. I also enjoy the British Sports Car List! The only problem is if I go away for 4 days as we just did with our ROVER this weekend, I come back to about 150 messages to wade thru. Can anyone out there shed some light on a question about the gearshift lever on a 73 Series III? What should be on the bottom of the lever to stop it from rattling? The drawing in my Series III workshop manual seems to show a round ball with a rubber O-ring on it. I also remember reading that some Series III's have a plastic sleeve on the end, which did seem to be a problem. I have neither of the above! On the end of my lever is what seems to be a brass sleeve which fits over the ball! I don't know if this is original or left over from a PO. I would like to do something to stop the lever from rattling at highway speeds. Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse.net - currently under restoration From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 20 16:09:22 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:09:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Hasn't he bought one yet?! On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Are you eventually going to get board asking questions and actually go > out & look at some Land Rovers? Looking at a group of them will > answer many more questions than you have asked so far. Where's Clemson? Who's event can we inflict him on? :-) From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 20 12:04:20 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 12:04:20 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Snorkels ? In message <9502200852.AA03145@schooner.waite.adelaide.edu.au> Daryl Webb writes: > Ok I think I missed the original post but I gather TerriAnn (hi) wants a > snorkel. If looks are not (or maybe are) a concern Daryl, Of course I want one because they look cool, so looks are very much an issue. I don't need one for wading since I try not to drive in water that goes more than 3/4 the way up the seat box (I don't like having to be in wet pants the rest of the day). It would give me cleaner air when convoying in dry dirt though & I do worry about the amount of dust in the air at engine level. But it just has to look cool TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 20 15:06:55 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 15:06:55 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Corrosion On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, DOUG SACKINGER wrote: > I'm sure this question has been beat to death before but I didn't > find answers in the FAQ. Not in there yet... :-) > What remedies are there for corrosion. I've heard of galvanized > frames. This seems like a great idea in the rustbelt. Do they also [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > costs.. > What has the experience been in the severe salt/rust areas? Galvanising a frame is pretty cheap (hundred bucks or so...) but probably isn't worth it in the long run. It is hard to clean the inside of the frame and get what ever shit there is in there out. This route hase been taken by several people here in Ottawa and while successful, they do not recommend following through. Galvanising the frame (once cleaned off etc.) reduces the size of all of the holes that bolts and bushings go through. These have to be drilled out, or if bolts left in, the bolts etc. have to be taken out. Oiling an existing frame is a better solution. WHen it comes time to replace the frame, get one that is already galvanised and the nasty bits have been looked after. Bulkheads distort when dipped into the tanks. They can be straightened out again (which has been done.) Don't bother with doors. They are cheaper to replace outright, unless your frames etc are in excellent condition. For this type of stuff, they charge by the hundred pounds of material, so just gather a lot of stuff up to be done all at once. > I'm also interested in extreme cold weather performance and reliablility, > perhaps some input from the Great White North ? They work, though synthetic in the gearbox etc makes life a lot easier. Otherwise it is like molasses & you can break gear levers. > Cracking seals They crack anywhere. Cold doesn't make that much difference. > Frost-plug heaters Get one. CHeap & available from Tremro. > Circulating heaters They help too... Any heat helps with these things for an easy start though they do go if in good shape without the help. > Brittle metal (30 year old metal) at <40F No problems seen. > Comfort with Kodiak heater at <40F Better than a Smiths... Rgds, From C Taylor Sutherland III Mon Feb 20 16:37:15 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: more roof questions If one could find them as I hear they are rather rare, is it possible to put the tropical roof on an old 88" Ser. IIA and the full door and all? Also, has anyone had any experience with a safe, removable roll bar to attach when the rag top is on and the hard top is off? Taylor No, I still haven't bought one, but I'm close... :) From C Taylor Sutherland III Mon Feb 20 16:34:21 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:34:21 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: 4 wheel drive question I've seen a fair number of posts about locking hubs and I've come to the conclusion that they are mainly there to increase gas miliage. Now on a late Series IIA 88", is there liable to be an increase in gas miliage with the hubs? If not, and the general consensus (although I know some people don't like giving advice so the person they gave advice to doesn't blame them for their own decisions) is that they do more harm than good, then I think I might do without them. Besides, I'm liable to forget to lock them every 50 miles or whatever. Question #2. Are differential lockers advantageous for the model of rover mentioned above? I mean, really advantageous and worth the price. The more I think about it, the less I think they are. If I get stuck, I can just winch myself out. Comments anyone? Taylor From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 20 18:04:20 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:04:20 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp) CTS, III writes: > Here are some more questions for ya'll to chew on. The fact is, I just got > "The History of the Land-Rover 1948-1988" by James Taylor to help me get a > better idea about these trucks and it didn't once show me what the inside > an 88" SIIA looks like! I was very disappointed. I would like to have a > couple of fairly high quality color pics of the interior of these things: the On the Rover Web that Ray Harder is now maintaining (URL address: http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb) there is a pencil sketch of the center portion of the dash of a '67 SIIa that was drawn by my dad about 25 years ago (see picture library). The sketch is just as crude as the dash in real life- it'll give you some idea of what to expect (and the proper frame of mind of any series owner). If it ain't to your liking, well......... cheers, rd/nigel From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Mon Feb 20 15:39:42 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 15:39:42 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Camel Trophy/Part 2 Sorry about the splits. I had some troble getting this into my mailer. Coming late in the trial this test was designed to test not only the skills in the vehicle but to also test everbodies stamina. The course had to be driven 24 times, twice by each candidate and the course took approxiamately and hour to complete. The hours creeped by for those either waiting or those having completed the drive. To give evrybody something to do the Camel crew had set up the chain saw test and a log chop. These test were not only time fillers but also would show each persons ability and willingness to do manual labor on demand. If all this was not enough the fourth and final written test was given as candidates became avaiable. This was the Time/Speed/Distance test and was not fun, in the early morning hours of Sunday. Few of the candidates had an easy time of it. Thankfully, for a few, there was no real time limit on doing the test. As soon as the last double rides finished it was back into the Discos for a ride and instruction on using the on-board rallye computer. More waiting and more mental grinding was waiting for the candidates. After the rallye computer work came another driving, compass and running test. Paired up again the teams tried to keep warm waiting for their final ride and almost the last physical test. As the fire burned down and the light of the morning sun filtered through the heavy clouds the first team roared off in the Disco. As the candidates waited for their ride the observers started breaking camp and made mental notes as to which of the, now tired, candidates pitched in to help or just stood by the fire. This provided one more reminder that during the trial everything a candidate does is observered and becomes part of their score card. The final rallye drive gave the teams one more chance to use what remained of their physical and mental strength. The route was much the same as the first rallye drive but this time at certain points the navigator was required to jump out and follow a compass heading carrying one full and one empty fuel can. While the navigator slogged across the hills the driver continued driving and had to meet their team member at a designated spot. Once the team was whole again the roles were reversed and the driver had the chance to tote the load while following a compass bearing. As the drives were completed the mood became light and cheerful. All of the participants could see the light at the end of the tunnel. Everybody was looking forward to getting back to the hotel for a wash and some sleep. As the final team hit camp the candidates were jubilant and started feeling like the trial was over. Some knew better. The final test was cleaning up the Rovers. Not just the Team trucks but every Rover that was used, even the observer support vehicles. Bags were collected and seats in vehicles found for everybody. Tom Collins stood with a bag full of quarters and the car wash was filled with muddy Rovers and tired Camel Trophy wannabees. After three hours of wet and muddy slogging the vehicles came out clean and the candidates finally could get the hot baths and showers they had been dreaming of since the early morning hours of Sunday. The awards banquet was a mix of a graduation and lottery drawing. They had made it through the trial and received hats, t-shirts and patches as their reward, but in their eyes could be seen the anticipation and excitement that only the team selection list would satisfy. With a small and neat preface Tom Collins called out the names of the four. They were Jim Swett of Lebanon, CT, Daphne Greene of Ross, CA, Jonah Houston of Monterey, CA and Tom Davenport from Burlington, VT. It was over, the team was choosen and now the really hard work of preparing these four for the international trial in Turkey would begin. Roy From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 20 18:45:47 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:45:47 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Dow down, Rovers up > Man, in the S.F. chronicle there is a '74 88" for sale for, > get this, $12,000! It says totally refurbished and many > extras but wow. I figure that the series Land Rovers are just > going to become more valuable over time, what an investment. none Deal! Out here (east coast) they routinely go for upwards of this (I've seen them listed at $17.5K!) for a freshly and completely refurbished one. Generally, the IIs and IIas seem to take more money, though. Wanna go into business? rd/nigel From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 20 14:23:02 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 14:23:02 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Dixon hates Land Rovers? > I hope to end up with the kind of Land Rover Dixon hates, undented and > completely painted...at least until the environment starts trying to scratch > the paint off. Just been reading the digest from Feb 17, and I am a little perplexed by your comment about Dixon, TeriAnn! Our Series III could fit your description as it is in original, relatively undented condition, with the original Limestone paint finish (albeit a little thin in spots), but Dixon has never actually told me that he hates it! 8^) Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse.net - currently under restoration From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 20 18:42:14 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:42:14 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Rusting D110s >From somewhere out in cyberspace the following was written: > And now that the flame wars are over, I'm sure you won't bring up the 3 > articles in LRO on pg 22 about Disco & Defender poor bodywork & corrosion. :-) Not to fan the flames (they're out, and there's no more fuel to feed the embers) or anything, but a word of warning to Defender/Disco owners..... A good friend of mine has just deposited his D110 at Zumbach's in the city (NYC) for rust repair. It is a tad over one year old. Rust has developed at the junction of the body panel with the metal strip that runs around the top of the rear bed. The strip that *used* to be galvanized. Fortunately, the rust is being repaired under warranty. Keep a close eye on it. Rgds, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 20 18:12:49 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 18:12:49 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: U.K. parts details > > Use a credit card in dealing with companys in different currency areas. > > The credit card company deals with the currency exchange. If you send [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > sends a check in pounds sterling to whomever in England. Unfortunately, > all this takes about 6 weeks. What you need to do is find a Barclay's bank, or some other foreign based banking institution that does these conversions to sterling on a regular basis. They'll do it while you wait (and there *must* be one in the bay area). rgds, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 20 19:20:35 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 19:20:35 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Kodiak Heaters, Seals, Rattles > I have just completed putting my LR back together and have a few > questions about rattles and the like. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > but it seems that the motor casing is rivited on. If possible, does > anyone know where I might get a new busing if needed. Oh, Nigel does this as well, but it stops once he's warmed up. I've got the round smith's in 'im, though. I presume your kodiak heater has a replacable motor (which mine does not). > 2) This question may negate the previous. I need to buy new door > seals (66 88" SIIa) and am wondering if there is a generic seal > material available. I would prefer rubber seal attached to a metal > backing plate. The ones from RN seem a bit expensive. Aftermarket seals are available (from just about any LR parts operation) but a word to the wise......some are made of different material....not rubber but some type of foam crap. You get what you pay for (and make certain you are getting the rubber ones). > 3) In order to remove the windshield wipers and motors from the > windscreen I had to partially destroy one of the splined busings on > one of the shafts. I amy just braze the spline back on but am open to > suggestions on repair, raplacement. (These are the old individual > wiper motors) You mean on the outside? The splines that are held onto the rotating shafts by means of two allen head screws? Did the shaft itself break? Bummer. Wiper motors can set you back buck$ bigtime, but I imagine you might be able to rape a shaft from one somewhere...... (not here, though). rgds, rd/nigel From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Mon Feb 20 15:11:52 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 15:11:52 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Camel Trophy/Part 1 People a small note before I start. This is a general account of what the Team Trial is about. And a first draft to boot. So bear with me. Notes to a few individuals, Brad let me know what you think of this, Todd I want your opinion also and Mike this is just one part of what I will send to you. Driving east on I-70 with clear blue skys pushed the outside temprature up to spring like 40 plus degrees. The drive to Grand Junction from Helena Montana had been long but pleasent. There was no adverse weather and no adverse law enforcement hindering my journey. Finding the Grand Junction Hilton was no problem and knowing I was in the right place was proved by the six Range Rovers and two Camel Trophy Team vehicles sitting in the parking lot. The weather was spring like and looked like it would continue. This was not the kind of weather or tempratures that Tom Collins (Camel Team Coordinator) wanted, to help in testing the candidates. He wanted cold, snow or rain so the Bookcliffs test location would turn into a sea of mud, just to add a bit of fun to the weekend program. At the front desk I got tremendus pleasure from stating I was with Camel Trophy Showing no apparent indication of the import of that statement, the desk clerk cheerfully registered me and handed over the plastic security card that was the room key. After out fumbling the bell hop on a tip, I hustled back down to the lobby to make contact with either the arriving candidates or the LRNA people. I was finally able to locate Glenn Campbell and Bill Baker. I was greeted with good cheer but also with a certain reserve. After getting names and faces straight the plan was to gather all of the press people and head up stairs to the journalist hospitality room. In a short period of time it was clear that Bill and Glenn had already decided who they wanted as the team journalist. Their choice was Sue Meade, a freelance journalist in the motor trades and Erik Schlegel of the Dallas Morning News. Neither seemed to have the background required but they did have media outlets. Sue and Erik are both very game and not afraid of mud and hard work. They still did not strike me as having all the skills needed to be a contributing/supporting member of the team. Time will tell how they meet the challenge of the Camel Trophy. Prior to arriving in Grand Junction I had completed telephone interviews with the four women and one of the men candidates. I was anxious to meet and talk to the remaining seven. Just prior to doing the journalist thing up-stairs I was able to meet and talk with Jim Swett from Lebanon Connecticut. Jim was very friendly and indicated that he was pleased just to be at the trials as one of the final tweleve. That attitude was the same with all of the candidates and one or two wondered why they had gotten invited at all. I also found no arogance among the candidates. Self-confidence yes, willing to challenge themselves and either succed or fail by their own skills and abilities. All and all they were a group of very friendly and up people. Friday afternoon went by very quickly and I found it was time for the arrival banquet and meeting all of the candidates face to face. Tom Collins gave a brief introductory speech on the history of the Camel Trophy and what it is all about. When Tom finished he had everybody stand and give a small self- introducion. I was the only person that actually owned a Land Rover. None of the candidates had ever owned owned one and only one of the former team members present owned a Rover. Not a very good showing regarding involvement with our favorite vehicle. Be that as it may, the remainder of the dinner was very nice and the Camel Team members, I was sitting with, were very friendly andimpressive. I shared the table with Mark McDonald, Jim West, Webb Arnold and Bob Burns of Land Rover North America. After a bit more talk from Bill Baker ofLRNA public relations, dinner was finished and due to weather problems, several more candidates finally arrived. For an after dinner program, Tom Collins gavea slide show that dealt with the contributions and firendship aspects of the Camel Trophy. Very interesting and it provided a great deal of insite into who Tom Collins is and what his association with Camel has meant to him on a personal level. After Tom's presentation several videos were run on a big screen tv. Of course the candidates crowded around and despite the late hour devoured every sceen andall of the dialoge. For me, I headed to bed for sleep before the six am start time. But sleep was not in the cards because my sinus cold tried to kill me. I had maybe two hours of sleep. Down at breakfast everybody was at least awake. Some of the candidates obviously got more sleep than others. Breakfast was fruit, yogurt,cranola and bagles. I was very dissapointed that they did notprovide a choice of various dead animals and other by-products. But the coffee was good and there was plenty of it. After breakfast it was time for the first written test. All of the candidates gathered in aconference room a were given atest covering metric conversion, general map reading skills and several basic time/distance/speed questions. The final part of the test was locating grid coordinates on a map and with given compass bearing find the location on a topo map that related to the bearings. The questions were not very hard but you had to think and be careful because it was easy to make a mistake. After the test it was time for the swim in the Hilton pool. The swim was a way to get hearts pumping and make sure nobody was a lead weighted rock. The pool was small, no more than thirty feet long, so each person had to do three down and back laps. Oh, it was also unheated with a water temprature around 40 degrees. People shivered and shook, but all made the swim and quickly retired to the hot tube bythe pool. After the last two swimers and the times recorded, everybody dried off and had afew minutes to grab their bags and meet out front for rides out to the Bookcliffs trial site. I grabbed a ride with Sue Meade and Steve (no last name)of a Denver publications firm. On the road to the site, we trailed a 95 model Range Rover SE, the new restyled RR. It looks better in person than the photographs but to my eye it looks like a typical stylist attempt to satisfy an upward mobile market a the result is very bland and homogenized look. Steve wasvery impressed with the new look, as was Sue Meade; I think that tells us all something about the looks over function theory of automotive design. Of course the conversation quickly went to other things because the two had nothing but puffy things to say about the new Rover in contrast to my more functional approach to the new look. Arriving at the trial site the candidates were told to stow their gear in the warming tent and get ready for the run. The ground was damp and the dirt had not turned into the gumbo Tom Collins really wanted. The temprature was a very nice mid 30, that is by memory guess, and not bad for a six mile run. The terrain is made up of a heavy dose of rolling hills with noreal flats at all. The route had several very steep hills tossed in to help compensate for the lack of mud. At the finish, unknow to the runners, was a rope climb. The hauser like rope was suspended from a cable strung between uprights on either side of a steep banked gully. As each runner came in the observers directed them to the rope climb and mentioned in passing that the run time included getting up the rope and touching the knot. For the next several hours it was a constant series of things to do. Guided by the observers, who were all former team members, the candidates were given theirfirst look at the team Discovery trucks and introduction to basic winching The information was concise and to the point. The object was to see how much the candidates could retain and for how long. Next up on the agenda was the team building problem solving test of the spider web. The 12 were split into two teams and given the test rules. Suspended between three telephone pole tripods were horizontal and vertical ropes with a series of cris-crossing lines that looked like a spider web. The objective was to pass each member of the teamthrough the web without touching the ropes and using each opening only once. If anything touched the rope, wether it was hair, clothing or body part, the team had to start over. To add a bit of stress, the teams had forty minutes to get across. Every observer was present and watching the ropes for touches and listening, watching the group dynamics of each team. One team completed the task, one failed. Both teams fiqured out how to do it, one group just fiqured it out faster. During the trial the candidates were paired as teams in various combinations. Generally it was by a simple matter of pairing number at random. The object was to see enough combinations at work that Tom Collins and his team of observers could see the inter-personal skills and team work of all the candidates. So as the morning rolled on under cloudy skies the orienteering course was flagged and runners were dispatched at two minute intervals. The mapand compass test was again a timed running and skill test, with another surprise at the end. It was a simple test, each runner had to complete the course as fast as possible with as many correct compass bearings as could be managed. Between the runners and the finish line was a cable suspended across a gully that had to be traversed, anyway possible, to reach the finish and stop the clock. The most popular choice for crossing was to grab the cable, ankles locked around the cable and pull across. All 12 made and nobody feel off, to the spotters great relief because the cable was at least 18 feet above the gully floor. Overcast weather and fairly warm tempratures were encouraging for the candidatesbut failed to provide the muddy, cold lousy conditions that Tom and crew really wanted. The object of bad conditions is that it very quickly brings out the best and worst in people. In some ways it makes the observers task much easier.Some of the qualities that makes a good Camel Team member can be faked for awhile, sooner or later small failures and fatique tear down the puffed up image and each person wears who they really are right out front. I could already see the toll on the faces and in the body language of the 12. In between events observers would chat with and watch the candidates. Everything was noted either with paper and pencile on score sheets or held in memory for the Sunday round table with Tom Collins. Sometime before noon the candidates got their first chance to drive the team trucks. Everybody seemed to be anxious and many had great smiles of appreciation after they returned and generally a feeling of accomplishment. For some it was the first time they ever put a real 4 X 4 through the paces and the Discovery was a very eye-opening experience. After all the teams finished the orientation drive it was time to solve another problem. The problem was simple; get a stalled Discovery from the bottom of a steep hill to the top with no winch. They were given a spare tire, rope, pulleys and the muscle power of their 12 bodies. The Disco did get to the top of the hill but only after several false starts. After this team success it was time to take another written test. This time it was on general first aid and CPR. Not a hard test but having been on the go, since six AM, each candidate needed to focus and concentrate on the individual task. All during the events a warming tent had been kept stocked with power bars, fruit, coffee, hot water and some heat. It was not said but understood that none of the candidates should remain in the tent any longer than was needed. After the winching team winching effort the tent, hot drink and the test were a welcome semi-break in the action. Several times during the day it had tried to snow, rain or blow but fortunately it still remained fairly warm. As the sun started to set in the west, the observers got everybody ready to run the gymkanna course. The prospect of driving brightened everbodies faces and lifted some sagging spirits. The course was fairly small and tight with a tetter-totter in the middle. Each driver was given one test lap and then would do three timed laps. After the second lap each driver would turn into the teeter and had 2 minutes to balance the Disco, or not. In addition to the times balance test the entire three laps were timed and a deduction made for each marker coned knocked over. Few cleanedthe course and several acted like they were in a butcher shop grinding hamburger. Each time a grind was heard, I could see Tom wince in pain and the observers snickered. The last driver completeed their run after dark and the Camel Disco presented a fine image tearing around the course with all lightsblazing in the night. Darkness provided the perfect backdrop and conditions for the bridge building test. The candidates were again divided into two teams and presented with the problem of getting a vehicle across a gully that was too deep to drive through and too narrow to drive across without aid. The teams had a hard time deciding what to do but once a plan was decided on the bridges were built and vehicles driven across with little delay. The part of this test that dissapointed a few of the team members was that after crossing the bridge had to be torn down and all of the poles and rop hauled back down the road to the main camp. Even to the casual observer it was clear who the people were that still had energy and the spirit to pitch in and complete a job so that the trial could continue for everybody. The next event was perhaps the mental barrier that all had to overcome and would show Tom a great deal about the mental and physical will of the candidates. Tired from the bridge building each person had to grab their haedlamps and compass for the second of three orienteering tests. Like the first test this was timed and the object was to find as many of the route locations as possible in the shortest amount of time. With the sun down and more mud from the snow and rain squalls the darkness would shed much light on the determination and remaining mental skills of the candidates. At intervals, each person jogged off into the night with just a compass, pencile and paper. The hills sourrounding the trial site became alive with small points of light bobbing across the hills. As each finished the course their time was logged and the paper checked for the correct way points. Awaiting them was a big roaring fire and the chance to taste a wonderful freeze dried dinner. The cnadidates returned muddy and tired with many tales of falling down slippery hills, wrong turns and stumbling across the unfamiliar ground. As would be expected everybody was hungray and not to many people made rude comments about the dinner, mostly because it was what they would have to live on during the Camel Trophy, if they made the team. Dinner over, tail sof wow told and mistakes learned from the candidates again were split into teams for the first night driving and winching exercise. Tom and his team had plotted a route across the hills of the Bookcliffs that would test basic driving skills and the ability of the two people to work as a team. The exercise was this; drive the vehicle over a flagged course using only the route finding and driving directions of the team member acting as the navigator. For the driver it would test their skill driving of-road, ability to take directions and trust their navigator. For the navigator it would test their communicationms skills, route finding and reading skills plus their ability to winch the vehicle from a bog that could be driven but with the observers help everybody got stuck. End Part 1 - No spell checker, please overlook the mistakes. Roy From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 17:31:39 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 17:31:39 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Zinc poisoning Chickens come brain damaged. From Craig Murray Tue Feb 21 9:17:21 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 9:17:21 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Snorkels ? > In message <9502200852.AA03145@schooner.waite.adelaide.edu.au> Daryl Webb > writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | Systems Administrator | Ambition is a poor excuse for not having CP Software | the sense to be lazy. 1st Floor | 493 St Kilda Road | -- Charlie McCarthy Melbourne VIC 3004 | mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | Note: I do not take any responcibility for spelling mistakes. flames > /dev/null From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 20 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 20 Feb 95 18:05:16 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Iveco Far be it from me to contradict our esteemed boss but, Bill you got it wrong. Iveco is not Japanese, it is the commercial vehicle arm of Fiat the Italian car and commercial vehicle ( trucks to my colonial brothers ) they took over the european Ford commercial division as well a few years ago. The Iveco engine range is a combination of the Ford and fiat ranges. the fiat diesels are popular in Germany and Italy as landie conversions The Transit van that flys past your rangie on the motorway at 80 plus mph is probably powered by the 2,5 litre direct injection engine that fits very nicely in a landie and fly's because of the high revs. the van fly's past you because the driver is getting 25 mpg, is not paying for the diesel and is probably late for his tea break. I ordered the Matchbox Landie by phone using mastercard, cost $26.45. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From CIGARS! Mon Feb 20 18:02:52 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:02:52 -0500 (EST) From: CIGARS! Subject: speedo ?'s Hello, i just got the address to this list and couldn't wait to post! i am in meriden,ct usa. i have a '72 ser3 88 hard top. i can't drive it enough. i have a question about my speedo i am hoping to get answered. the speedo has never worked since i have owned it. that doesn't bother me. how fast can a rover go anyway? but now my odometer doesn't work either. that bothers me, because i am religious about mantainence. my question is this. how does the odometer function? does it work off of the speedo cable? do i have to replace the speedo cable? do i have to replace the speedo itself? thanks in advance for all answers! T.R. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x "Give 'Em Linen!" Leo-owner, Carnegie Deli x x "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" SF x x trbrysh@delphi.com x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx << Sent by Scout v.3.0.1 >> From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 13:48:26 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:48:26 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Did it to myself Thanks for the advice. I got it started soon after my post by unclipping just one side of the dist cap, lifting it up a crack, and cooking the insides for about a minute with a hair dryer. The V8 seems a bit sensitive to water. I could blast away all day long on my 2.25 IIa. From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 20:09:49 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:09:49 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive question Don't bet on it. You're basically driving a vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick. Road speed & head winds will have a far greater affect on milage than hubs. You would never notice a difference with hubs, except maybe inconvenience & expense. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 20 16:39:14 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 16:39:14 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: more roof questions In message <199502202137.QAA19367@hubcap.clemson.edu> C Taylor Sutherland III writes: > If one could find them as I hear they are rather rare, is it possible > to put the tropical roof on an old 88" Ser. IIA and the full door and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Taylor > No, I still haven't bought one, but I'm close... :) Its called the model 88 station wagon, available at your local Land Rver dealers for about $US2400. Offer expores at the end of the 1974 model year. Its a standard common configuration for the 88. My first Land Rover, AKA Red Rover, was a '69 model 88 station wagon. Safari tops rare? Scotty currently has one for a 109 minus sides sitting about. I suspect he would sell it if someone were interested. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 20 20:18:13 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:18:13 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Dixon hates Land Rovers? > I hope to end up with the kind oFrom Craig Murray Tue Feb 21 14:10:01 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:10:01 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive question > the conclusion that they are mainly there to increase gas miliage. > Now on a late Series IIA 88", is there liable to be an increase in gas [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > winch myself out. Comments anyone? > Taylor The more capable the 4 wheel drive, the deeper in the brown stuff you will be when it gets stuck!!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From RLZiegler@aol.com Tue Feb 21 03:07:47 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 03:07:47 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Cracked Heads Maloney asked:"...was this in the vicinity of the rear cylinders (with the front getting more flow)?...Was it that with the old gaskets the back cylinders were getting less flow,..." Cracking most frequently was between 3rd & 4th cylinders because by the time coolant got to the 4th cylinder it was already pretty hot thus not adequately cooling the head in this area. By using graduated passages in the gasket the heat of the engine could be evened out. Cracking of cast iron heads (in this case) results from uneven heating of the metal thus setting up the stress. As to the older engine headgasket not warming up an engine as fast as the newer style gasket does I'm not sure. I was never aware of the difference in engine heatup time. RedBack questioned need for reaming guides: New valve guides of anyones manufacture are reamed after installation in the head because some distortion of the guide may have taken place during the installation procedure. Guides are an interference fit in the head thus they need pounding or pressing into the head which may cause distortion. From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1903 Date: 21 Feb 95 03:17:56 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Transmission/V8 questions Mike Slade wants to know: >I'm pretty sure that I've settled on the 3.5 l V8. Now I'm unsure as to the >different models. Is there a high compression and a low compression motor, or >just one model? And, I've heard about the 3.9l V8. Differences? Torque? >Horsepower? Thirst??? >My biggest decision is regarding the transmission. As the car will be coil >sprung and have 110 drive train components, I have the choice between the LT77 >(?) 5-speed, the old Range Rover automatic, or the newest style Range Rover >automatic. With the 110 drivetrain, I'd stick with the 3.5 V8. The 3.9 would seem to have a tad too much power for what would be good for that gearing. The 3.9 is also rather more thirsty. The 3.5, both carb and EFi, can be had with a 9.? (default) or 8.? (optional) ratio. They only differ in the pistons. The 8.~ ratio lets you burn low-octane regular gas without 'pinging' which is good for travel in countries with bad quality petrol (North & Central Africa, Asia) or in places where there's a considerable price span between regular and super (like Germany). However, the lower ratio will take approx. 12 hp from your engine. For transmission, I'd go for the 5-speed. Very economical. *If* automatic, then only the new RR automatic; the old-style three-stage lump is poo-poo. The choice is more a question of taste. Both are rugged and reliable, and in low range automatic you can pre-select and lock gears manually. Same goes for towing. Under extreme thermic conditions (desert w/deep sand) the automatic can develop a heat problem. Right hand steering, again a question of taste. I always did and do a lot of left-side driving (GB, Oz), but only once I had to rent a RH steering Vauxhall on Cyprus, stick shifting with my left hand. It was hair-raising, and I was constantly in panic. If you never did it before I'd think twice. Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1903 Date: 21 Feb 95 03:18:41 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Hasn't he bought one yet?! Taylor still in quest of the ultimate Land Rover... > I got a question about vertical hinged wagon rear doors ...snip... ...snip... > top comes off. Or is there a simple answer in this, just get the tail gate > that folds down? It's hard to tell from the parts guide pictures I have. There are two types of 'half-height' doors suitable for the pickup/canvas loadspace, either the fold-down tailgate: This requires the appropriate hinge brackets to be present on the rear crossmember (they can be welded on if missing) plus the two splines w/pins upper right and left to lock the tailgate (simple drilling/bolt on job). Alternatively there is also a swinging tailgate (i.e. like half a vertical safari door) that has two hinges on the right (you might have to add a third hinge if the safari door only had two) and the regular door lock of the full door. I personally prefer the fold-down tailgate as it can be used as workbench, picnic table, extension for sleeping etc. Next question? Stefan From Craig Murray Tue Feb 21 14:10:01 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:10:01 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive question > I've seen a fair number of posts about locking hubs and I've come to > the conclusion that they are mainly there to increase gas miliage. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > winch myself out. Comments anyone? > Taylor The more capable the 4 wheel drive, the deeper in the brown stuff you will be when it gets stuck!!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Feb 21 12:19:40 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:19:40 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: V8's and H2O Sanna@AOL.com comments that the V8's are senisitive to water: Whilst I've found mine to be sensitive to pressure cleaners, its' always in the way sanna describes, starts OK initally when soaking wet but after stopping moisture condenses on the cap. :-( Off road I had some misgivings as to the distributor location, spray from the fan and all that, but it has proven to be amazingly water tolerant. I've needed to switch it off on a couple of occassions when It became obvious that I was in "too Deep". After a complete sinking, it still started fine (after draining all the H2O out of the sump and disconnected the air filter) This is a points system too. Whilst it may not be perfect, I've seen a lot worse on other petrol engines 4x4's cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Feb 21 11:48:02 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:48:02 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: livid of Loughborough > Livid of Loughborough, > (Mike Rooth) Writes about protecting the innocent pedestrian from the big bad crazed 4x4 owner. Over here in OZ every so often someone starts up about *Banning* Bull/Roo/protection Bars. One of the East coast citys (Melbourne or Sydney) even wanted to outlaw bars in the city area. Owners of vehicles with bars fitted would not be permitted within the city limits. Part of our problem of course is that bars are available for just about any car, Suzuki swift, Toyota Corolla just about anything. Results in "armour plated" bombs driven by agressive morons. What a great steel bar hung off of the front of your front wheel drive econo box does for handling I dread to think. To date this has not happened, but it comes up enough to be worrying. What I really want to know is just what is an "airbag compatable" bull bar when its at home and how does it differ from the standard ones????? Cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Mr Ian Stuart Tue Feb 21 08:40:54 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 08:40:54 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Rusting D110s > The strip that *used* to be galvanized. In an effort to reduce costs, Solihull stopped galvanising this strip if it was to be painted. I believe that it is now being galvanised again (as of 94/95 :) BTW - I heard via the grape-vine that, now that the discovery & Range Rover have been updated, the Defender is to be re-vamped. BTW II - via the same source: BMW don't want Land Rover using the BMW Diesel (it doesn't work as well in the RR as in the BMW cars), so LR are going to re-engineer the 300TDi. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1906 Date: 21 Feb 95 06:07:20 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: RR brake failure after offroading Here's one from the section "learning from the faults of others"... The weekend before last we did some pretty rough offroading at our favourite local venue, a U.S. Army manoevre site in the woods. It had been raining heavily here for weeks, and only 3 days before the tanks had been there... Mud up over our knees, and mud *everywhere*, there was not a piece of solid ground in sight. After minutes all vehicles where indistinguishable, all had the same light-brown color up to the roof. It was the final test for my 'raised' RR w/235/85 tires, and it performed marvelously, unstoppable, ploughing through like it was being winched. Only casualties: EFi spoiler ripped off (I was dumb/lazy enough not to take it off before, first lesson) and exhaust pipe cracked (no big loss, the exhaust was finished anyway and was to be replaced soon). The same evening, and again next morning I hosed down and cleaned the vehicle with the power washer, going well around the bottom and around the wheels and hubs, leaving behind piles of clay, mud and gravel... All seemed well, and I drove around town for a few days, until I went for a short stretch on the highway. Traffic was heavy, and I had to do a few strong breaking jobs... suddenly noticed that the beast was pulling to the right like if I had a stiff gale blowing at me from the left, except that there was no wind. Applied the brakes, and the car violently swerved to the left. Hardly had I recovered from this shock when I noticed that unmistakeable stench from overheated burning brakes... oh, shit. Pulled over on the verge and carefully rolled on to the next emergency bay. Got out, the front right wheel was smoking. Jacked it up, took off the wheel (burnt my fingers on the lugnuts) and inspected the casualty. The rim of the brake disk was still glowing a dark red, the electronic sensor gizmo had melted down, and the brake pads were a stinking black charred and cracked mess. The cause was apparent: There was still some obstinate mud caked around the brakes which hadn't completely come off with the hosing, and some large pieces of gravel had made their way between the two brake pistons, jamming them and eventually causing them to lock up with the brakes applied. Cleared out the debris, pried the pistons back in and very carefully made my way back home. The subsequent repair job next day entailed fitting new brake pads (remember whatever you do on the brakes you have to do on _both_ wheels, even if damage is only on one side!), replacing the brake fluid, bleeding the system, and checking the brake hoses for damage/leaks. They didn't leak or bulge, but we replaced them anyway just to be safe. Brake disk has some nasty grooves, but it doesn't seem to be warped, breaking action is smooth and even, so I guess it can be salvaged. The electronic sensor is a total loss, but I don't intend to replace it; I wouldn't rely on them anyway. So, what we learn from this is: After offroading in deep mud, you should as soon as possible go to the trouble and take off _all_ wheels and clean the brakes and hubs thouroughly and meticulously, checking carefully for any foreign matter that, if overlooked, even after weeks can give you a sudden and nasty surprise. Remember, shit happens... even to a Range Rover. Stefan From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 21 11:24:43 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 11:24:43 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: livid of Loughborough Daryl, >From what I can gather,from what I have read,(two caveats in one sentence),the "Airbag Compatible" bar has something to do with the rate at which it stops the vehicle if it runs into something.The idea being,I assume,that it collapses at a recognised rate(Rather like our cricket team)and doesnt deploy the airbag.Either that,or its sufficiently springy to slow the vehicle,again without blowing up the balloon. I could,of course,be totally wrong,but it does have a kind of weird logic about it. And talking about bars on econocrap,I think I saw th ulimate last week.A Fiat Panda,with a bullbar(calfbar?)front*and rear*. Driven by a woman,as it happened,I shudder to think of her possible kerbside parking technique.A possible candidate for a British Rail Shunters Driving Licence,I would imagine! Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 21 12:25:16 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 12:25:16 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Rusting D110s Odd how one hears these things,isnt it? At the lecture I attended last week,the Land Rover personnell giving the talk said that there were no plans for the Defender, it would go on as before.However,in the current LRO,Tom Shepard does a lovely re-vamp of its interior,and says that Land Rover have been listening carefully to his ideas. There was no mention that the BMW engine would be replaced by the 300Tdi,either,but this was in the new Range Rover,not the "proper" one. I wonder whether the rumoured new,tin,monocoque,vehicle will be to compete with the little Suzuki,and that *hideous* Toyota RAV4? The "diddy 4X4" market would seem to be the only niche that Land Rover havent yet competed in.Just a thought. Cheers Mike Rooth From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 21 Feb 95 08:25:18 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Paint Codes If someone could also post those paint codes in the FAQ file or to the list where we can save it...I would appreciate it. I would like the modern ones, too -- esp. the Defender colors as I will be painting a trailer to match a Defender in the spring. Thanks, R. Pierce Reid From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 21 Feb 95 08:47:26 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Rhd to LHD I have an RHD Military. The accelerator is on a long linkage from the right over to the left. It is quite complex and must be kept well lubed less your Land Rover do the Audi thing and. All the holesfor moving everything from right to left should already be in place or filled with knock-out panels. All the bolt holes are drilled already. The biggest challenge will be the steering relay. Also, the Tailpipe is run differently in RHD vs. LHD but I am not sure if this is necessary or for guvernment regulations (MoT DOT, whatever) Your best bet for the conversion would be to get a ruined 'Rover (either in North America or in Belgium, if you are in Europe). Take everything forward of the box off (except the bulkhead) and swap the parts on. It will not be an easy job, but a LR is a big Meccano set and should swap without much problem. Also, do you *have* to make the swap? Is there a law you need to meet? I drive an RHD in the U.S. everywhere and have no problems. In fact, it is a challenge for me to drive a LHD (stick shift) now, because I have driven the RHD so long. I never have any problems (and I swear all those cars running off the road behind me are just bad drivers, really) Hope this helps... if you get into the conversion, I am sure everyone here will be glad to help! Cheers, R. P. Reid From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 09:14:12 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:14:12 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: First time here Actually Mike, the first paved roads here were for the use of cyclists only...a very powerful early lobby was the Leauge of American Wheelmen...these folks would ahve been mighty upset if *you* drove down one of *their* roads...... Keep the land rover and hit the green lanes..." Golly, Officer, I thought the pavement was for *bicycles*!..." steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 09:21:03 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:21:03 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Kodiak Heaters, Seals, Rattles The splined adapter is not a rover part (I think) but a device manufactured by the wiper company so that you can use "conventional" wiper arms on shaft type motors...I think it came with the arms...try a real good parts place...you might have to buy the whole arm, but... if push comes to shove, I may have one I can send.... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Andrew Grafton Tue Feb 21 14:19:56 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:19:56 GMT From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Introduction from new poster Hi, there! I have been watching the list for a few months now and the time has come for me to announce my presence in anticipation of making a few postings. I'm the current owner of a '78 LWB SIII 2.25 Diesel commercial, which makes a surprising but not excessive amount of smoke. The reason for ownership is an overland drive from the UK to South Africa, starting sometime in October of this year. Within the next month we plan to buy a second (near as possible identical) machine to make up a pair, prior to overhauling the two of them. Prior experience includes owning an '82 LWB Safari SIII S 2.25 Petrol [South African variant, not _quite_ the same as the UK equivalent]. That was overhauled and then shipped back to its native South Africa following a stint in the UK. I live in Loughborough, UK, and work at the University here. All else changes with remarkable rapidity. There isn't a lot else to say apart from mentioning that if there is anyone out there willing to offer advice about overlanding down Africa or preparing for such a trip, then please get in touch! All the best, Andy Grafton. A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From William Dan Terry Tue Feb 21 09:04:29 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 09:04:29 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: RE: Kodiak Heaters, Seals, Rattles Dave, If you don't mind non-LR parts: I got stick-on seal from JC Whitney. It is about the cheapest they have, round or tubular cross-section, flat backing. The flat backing is just the right size for the channel. I still don't have the corners perfected, doing a cutting and overlapping type thing. It's about $15-$20 a door. I then used silicone caulk in a caulk gun to perfect the seal on the "outer" edge. Far from original, but I'm not an 'original' persuer. I'm trying to make it work in the spirit of LR; functional and simple. Peace, Bill _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 09:26:01 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Corrosion My friend, Jared the truly insane, took his 109 pick-up and gavlanized everything......no really...*everything*...steering column, pedal assemblies *hand brake lever*...*HIGH LIFT JACK*!!!!!!! sigh....... so...you can have your original stuff done...but I don't think anyone offers ready made...... steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 21 Feb 95 09:21:46 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: FAQ's Taylor missed Clemson is in South Carolina Also, Taylor has missed some of the most frequently-asked questions that we should voluntarily fill him in on. Let me know if I missed any! Q. How do I tell if I got one of the export Land Rovers with the zinc crankshafts? A. This is best done by taste. You dip your finger up to the first joint in crankcase oil. If it has a sort of taste like chewing tinfoil (chew some to find out what it tastes like first), you are fine and have a proper steel crank. If it has a blackened-redfish taste to it, you have a zinc crank and should immediately buy a Buick. Q. Is it true that Land Rovers float? A. Unlike Volkswagon Beetles, Land Rovers do not float. They will, however, drive without any problem drive across the bottom of deep water like, say, a Great Lake or the English Channel. Of course, you can get the pontoon kit if you don't want to wear scuba gear while driving. The 2.25 L engine does not really need a snorkel, it is so rugged it runs when full of water. If you want a bigger engine, you should get a VW and a Buick. Remember, if Ted Kennedy had driven a VW, he would be President today. Q. Should I put locking hubs on all four wheels to get maximum milage. A. The Land Rover will run very efficiently with all four hubs unlocked. Especially downhill with a tailwind. Or, you can tie on to the back of a Buick and have friends tow you all over town -- you can even put a tape of engine sounds in the that kicker stereo (instead of the tape of rapper Six-Pack Shabazz or whatever) and rally crank it up to make people think there is a 440 hemi under the hood. Q. Should I consider a Series 0 Land Rover? A. The very rare Series 0 (Series "ought" Land Rovers are generally the best choice for people looking for luxury and off-road ability. They were built in a joint venture between W.O. Bentley himself and Rover PLC in the 1920's. Connley Leather interiors, burl walnut trim, a Bentley straight-8 with blower, all titanium body and a 4 wheel drive system later copied in WWII by German engineers. They never rust, have electrical systems built by NASA and are guaranteed never to get stuck. The Queen has one. If you search a really long time, you can probably find one for about $1000. I am sure people on this list will be glad to send you all kinds of leads since we don;t want anything so plush. Q. If I buy a Left-Hand drive vehicle, where can I find a left-handed starting handle to go with it? A. Left hand drive vehicles require a left-handed Starting handle. Rovers North sells them. Ask for Lanny and tell him you need a left-handed starting handle. Q. Are Land Rover Owners generally patient people? A. Land Rover owners are very patient people If we weren't, we'd drive Buicks without Lucas electrical parts in them. I remember a bar in West Virginia where I waited almost 3 minutes for my beer before driving my Land Rover through the front doors and burning the place to the ground. But I hear Dixon has a temper, especially when he is out of Guinness R. P. Reid From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 09:37:34 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:37:34 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: speedo ?'s replace: Speedo...and maybe the cable too...yes they both work off the cable.... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 21 Feb 95 09:21:46 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: FAQ's Taylor missed Clemson is in South Carolina Also, Taylor has missed some of the most frequently-asked questions that we should voluntarily fill him in on. Let me know if I missed any! Q. How do I tell if I got one of the export Land Rovers with the zinc crankshafts? A. This is best done by taste. You dip your finger up to the first joint in crankcase oil. If it has a sort of taste like chewing tinfoil (chew some to find out what it tastes like first), you are fine and have a proper steel crank. If it has a blackened-redfish taste to it, you have a zinc crank and should immediately buy a Buick. Q. Is it true that Land Rovers float? A. Unlike Volkswagon Beetles, Land Rovers do not float. They will, however, drive without any problem drive across the bottom of deep water like, say, a Great Lake or the English Channel. Of course, you can get the pontoon kit if you don't want to wear scuba gear while driving. The 2.25 L engine does not really need a snorkel, it is so rugged it runs when full of water. If you want a bigger engine, you should get a VW and a Buick. Remember, if Ted Kennedy had driven a VW, he would be President today. Q. Should I put locking hubs on all four wheels to get maximum milage. A. The Land Rover will run very efficiently with all four hubs unlocked. Especially downhill with a tailwind. Or, you can tie on to the back of a Buick and have friends tow you all over town -- you can even put a tape of engine sounds in the that kicker stereo (instead of the tape of rapper Six-Pack Shabazz or whatever) and rally crank it up to make people think there is a 440 hemi under the hood. Q. Should I consider a Series 0 Land Rover? A. The very rare Series 0 (Series "ought" Land Rovers are generally the best choice for people looking for luxury and off-road ability. They were built in a joint venture between W.O. Bentley himself and Rover PLC in the 1920's. Connley Leather interiors, burl walnut trim, a Bentley straight-8 with blower, all titanium body and a 4 wheel drive system later copied in WWII by German engineers. They never rust, have electrical systems built by NASA and are guaranteed never to get stuck. The Queen has one. If you search a really long time, you can probably find one for about $1000. I am sure people on this list will be glad to send you all kinds of leads since we don;t want anything so plush. Q. If I buy a Left-Hand drive vehicle, where can I find a left-handed starting handle to go with it? A. Left hand drive vehicles require a left-handed Starting handle. Rovers North sells them. Ask for Lanny and tell him you need a left-handed starting handle. Q. Are Land Rover Owners generally patient people? A. Land Rover owners are very patient people If we weren't, we'd drive Buicks without Lucas electrical parts in them. I remember a bar in West Virginia where I waited almost 3 minutes for my beer before driving my Land Rover through the front doors and burning the place to the ground. But I hear Dixon has a temper, especially when he is out of Guinness R. P. Reid From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 09:42:09 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:42:09 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Iveco Is there a supplier of those "Ford" Di engines in ther US???? I rented a Ford transit "Luton"..the cab/chassis with a *BIG* box on the back A La U-Haul....the thing just "boogied"...80mph+...full of rover parts too.... would I put one in a Rover??? You bet! steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 21 09:44:43 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:44:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rhd to LHD On 21 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > Also, the Tailpipe is run differently in RHD vs. LHD but I am not sure > if this is necessary or for guvernment regulations (MoT DOT, whatever) 1. DOT in Canada doesn't care. 2. RHD tailpipe assembly is half the price of the LHD. Guess which gets fitted. > Also, do you *have* to make the swap? Is there a law you need to meet? I drive > an RHD in the U.S. everywhere and have no problems. In fact, it is a challenge > for me to drive a LHD (stick shift) now, because I have driven the RHD so long. > I never have any problems (and I swear all those cars running off the road > behind me are just bad drivers, really) RHD is not a problem in Canada. Ontario requires a sticker, or some sort of designation in the back of a RHD vehicle to tell the public that the vecihle is not out of control with a loonie in the passenger seat, but is actually legit. Rgds, Dixon From Easton Trevor Mon Feb 20 14:00:00 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 14:00:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Video Re-video set up for offroading Some years ago, before video cameras, I did some test work at British Rail which involved filming beneath a railway coach. Two methods were tried for keeping the lens clean. 1 Film down a tube which is purged with clean air to blow any crud away from the lens. Easy on a train with a socking great compressor, but would need a centrifugal fan set up on 4x4 application. 2 Rapidly spinning glass disc in front of lens. This throws off crud by centrifugal action using small electric motor and direct drive. Additional washer spray may be needed in extreme mud. So far a mounting goes use a fairly rigid metalastik mount and vibration shouldn't be too much of a problem. Professional and upmarket video cameras have a vibration compensation in the optics/electronics which would be ideal so long as you don't mind risking your valuable camera on the front of a rampant Land Rover. I have successfully taken video with the camera mounted on a tripod strapped down with the middle seat belt. I have some black and white bitmaps available of Series II, III, Range Rover and Discovery.These were made using a frame grabber from 8mm video. If anyone wants B/W pictures just send me your 8mm tape, some notes on which frame you want and a 3 1/2 disc and I will do what I can to oblige , probably not by return but sometime.(This is of course just a subtle way of getting more Land Rover footage) Send to Trevor Easton, 124 Central Avenue, Grimsby, Ontario, L3M 4J2, Canada. From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 21 10:11:37 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 10:11:37 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: speedo ?'s > replace: > Speedo...and maybe the cable too...yes they both work off the cable.... Yo! But check the cable first! rd/nige From Easton Trevor Tue Feb 21 07:54:00 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 07:54:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Buick/Rover performance parts For those of you looking for common components for the Rover/Buick 215ci V8. he car side of our club, TARC, advises that D&D Fabrications, 8055 Tiffany, Almont, MI 48003 in the person of Mr Dave LaGrou specialize in Buick 215 Engines and their Rover derivatives and have a lot of experience in interchangability and tuning. Please mention our club if you contact him. Trevor Easton TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.CA (905) 945-6128 Grimsby, Ontario,Canada From JFisk1120@aol.com Tue Feb 21 10:14:58 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:14:58 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: USA Today Article Just opened my USA Today (February 21st)...in the Life section at the top it has a picture and caption that reads: TRIAL BY TIRE Think you're athletic? Think you can drive a four-wheel-drive? Think again as we tag along with 12 intrepid souls competing for seats on the U.S. team heading in May to the Camel Trophy, a 1,000-mile journey in 20 Land Rovers across Central America. TOMORROW. So guys, don't miss the February 22st edition of USA Today, Life Section. Should be fun! Jan Fisk From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Tue Feb 21 10:29:02 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:29:02 -0500 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp) >CTS, III writes: >> Here are some more questions for ya'll to chew on. The fact is, I just got [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >> an 88" SIIA looks like! I was very disappointed. I would like to have a >> couple of fairly high quality color pics of the interior of these things: This weekend I snapped some photos of my IIa, specifically to document the rollbar for those who are interested. While I was at it I took a panoramic photo of my dashboard, which also shows the position of the radio enclosure, CB, and 4-cell maglite. I got some nice shots of the tool box as well. I'll be scanning these photos and submitting them to the WEB site. (Could someone EMAIL me with instructions as to where to send them? Is GIF or JPEG format preferred?) Might be a while though, as I'm trying to clear my desk prior to leaving on Thursday for Mardi Gras in N'Orlans. If you absolutely have no way of accessing things through the WEB I can EMAIL them directly or I could probably be bribed to mail prints. Please don't submit any requests for this until I post a message indicating that the photos have been sent to the WEB site, and then please try to get them from there. Also remind me if there's a standard FTP site that might be willing to archive them for a while. FYI Taylor, the rollbar on my IIa would have been removeable had we not welded it to the frame. Originally it was through-bolted into collars welded to the frame. This was strong enough, but caused the bar to shimmy back and forth so it didn't *seem* strong. We ended up just welding it in place. However, as I said before, the bar fits underneath a hard top, so I see no reason to remove it. == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From Robert G Lawson Mon Feb 20 13:21:45 1995 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 13:21:45 GMT From: Robert G Lawson Subject: Subscription Please subscribe me to this list. -- [ Robert | RGL Support Services ] [ Lawson | Robert@organist.demon.co.uk ] From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 21 10:16:05 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:16:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: FAQ's Taylor missed On 21 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > Q. If I buy a Left-Hand drive vehicle, where can I find a left-handed > starting handle to go with it? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Rovers North sells them. Ask for Lanny and tell him you need a > left-handed starting handle. You forgot: Q. What other differences are there between left and right hand drive vehicles besides the steering wheel being on the wrong side? A. The handbrake is in the RH footwell, the wing mirror is moved to the right wing, looking down at the pedals, they are gas, brake, clutch when looking from left to right, the exhaust comes out the other side, the gear selection remains the same etc. Rgds, From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 21 10:16:35 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:16:35 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: RR brake failure after offroading Just one comment, Stefan. I did the same thing to my RR last week as you did (ripped the spoiler off, not the brakes). After having bashed this useless peice of plastic around enough times, I managed to tear half of it off when I plowed through a snow bank that had hardened to ice. That was it! I had had it! So last weekend I tore off all the remaining pieces, pulled the driving lamps out and remounted them just under the winch plate, inside the vertical bush bar stanchions. It really looks GREAT, and I just improved the forward approach angle by 100%. Those plastic spoilers are for the country club cruisers. Tony From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 21 10:30:14 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:30:14 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: FAQ's Taylor missed 21 1995 Feb U 1907 Date: 21 Feb 1995 07:48:52 U From: "Gene Kusznir" Subject: _THE_ survey - who's who on Mail*Link(r) SMTP _THE_ survey - who's who on Mail To: survey@team.net Surname: Kusznir Called_Names: Gene County/State: Kern / California Country(US,UK): US Club: LRONA Club: type/wb year body engine reg.mark name Vehicle: SIIA-109 64 safari 2.5 ONK 090 ONK Vehicle: From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 21 16:11:58 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 16:11:58 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: FAQ's Taylor missed Pierce,you *have* missed one. Q Will I need a left hand fan,if I dont already have one? A Yes.The way to find out is to remove the radiator and grill, start the engine,and poke the head through the gap until contact is made with the fan.If it removed the head from the left hand side, the fan requires changing.I wouldnt bother with the head,its no use now,anyway. Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 21 15:51:49 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 15:51:49 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Introduction from new poster Ah,this accounts for the necessity to use headlamps at four in the afternoon.There are *two* 2.25 diesels on this campus. Please hurry and get another one,then we can all go home early due to the appallingly foggy weather conditions. At the very least,if this humanitarian gesture is not allowed, we can all escape under cover of smoke. Cheers Mike Rooth From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 21 08:52:49 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 08:52:49 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Dixon hates Land Rovers? In message Richard Wegner writes: > > I hope to end up with the kind of Land Rover Dixon hates, undented and > > completely painted...at least until the environment starts trying to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! > rwegner@fimage.synapse.net - currently under restoration Listening to Dixon since he first got his first Land Rver running, he has always advocated going out & trying to drown, sink, bash, mash, slice & dice Land Rovers. He has always advocaed using Land Rvers to the max in situations that would be detrimental to the continued existence of straight panels and paint. He has always advocated not washing Land Rovers, and the first time I mentioned painting mine, came out solidly against dolling one up. Maybe he is starting to mellow after having Land Rovers for ..what almost 3 years now?... Mine got its engine rebuild finished at about the exact same time as Dixon got his first Land Rover runing..sorta. Once he got one running, he started reminding me of Thadious J. Toad after his first whiff from a motor car. he just had to prove there was no place a Land Rver could not go and just had to try to amass the largest collection of Land Rovers in Canada outside the armed forces. I'm glad he doesn't hate your car. Just don't let him drive it into the swamp. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 21 12:05:51 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 12:05:51 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: 2.25l 4-cyl questions. > Hi, > Do you have an overdrive or anything like that? How fast does it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > for quick starts to jump around people at a stop light. > Taylor OK, folks, let's all answer at once (and NOT cc the list). Yes, and Slow. rd/nige From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 21 09:08:56 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 09:08:56 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Kodiak Heaters, Seals, Rattles In message <199502210018.TAA15058@transfer.stratus.com> "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > Oh, Nigel does this as well, but it stops once he's warmed up. I've > got the round smith's in 'im, though. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > I presume your kodiak heater has a replacable motor (which mine does > not). Russel, The round Smiths heater also comes in the TR3. I have had the TR3's heater appart. It all disassembles nicely and you can get to the motor inside. A good automotive electric place could refirbish the motor if your bearings are going bad. The core on my TR3 was mostly plugged with sediment. It took me weeks soaking with soaps & shaking to get it cleaned out, but that too is doable. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Tue Feb 21 09:18:28 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:18:28 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: Paint Codes On 21 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > If someone could also post those paint codes in the FAQ file or to the list > where we can save it...I would appreciate it. I would like the modern ones, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Thanks, > R. Pierce Reid Appended are the 2 paint entries I saved. I'll try to get them cleaned up and send to the keepers of the Home Pages, some day soon. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (Home) Davis Community Network | Davis, California | wcswain@silva.wr.usgs.gov (Work) >From CXKS46A@prodigy.com From Spenny@aol.com Tue Feb 21 12:40:37 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:40:37 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: anorak Bill wrote... Obviously _TimeOut_ types think we're just another bunch of anoraks. I give, what is an anorak, besides a pullover jacket? Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Spenny@aol.com Tue Feb 21 12:40:38 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:40:38 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: tires hi, I need new sneakers, an i thought i should consult the collective wisdom of the net. so, what are all of you good people driving on, what are you happy with, what arent you happy with? i have 15 inch rims, on an 88 Thanks in advance Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Spenny@aol.com Tue Feb 21 12:40:31 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:40:31 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: right hand drive Bill wrote... snip, snip, snip now, the worser part of all this is that in your years of driving, you've gotten used to sitting with your butt in the middle of the road, or nearly so. You've got a decent view about right hand turns, sounds like you are speaking from the opposite experience I dated an english woman several years ago (before I learned to drive-I learned at age 25, but that is another story), anyway, every time she would make a U turn we would end up driving on the wrong side of the road. yikes! Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "DOUG SACKINGER" Tue Feb 21 15:13:31 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 15:13:31 EST From: "DOUG SACKINGER" Subject: corrosion/coldweather Thanks for the incredible response. Sounds as if permanence is approachable with LR. It only needs to outlast me. Cold weather strategy seems familiar. I was already convinced but anecdotal evidence helps. Is there a Series LR owner in the Indianapolis area that would be willing to give me a tour ? I'm not yet in a practical position for purchase but want to learn as much as possible before my dream becomes a reality. Thanks Doug Sackinger GIS analyst/LRO wannabe From Morgan Hannaford Tue Feb 21 11:45:54 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:45:54 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Elephant eats breakfast There was a good show on the Discovery channel last night. "The Natural World" followed a zoologist in Tanzania who studies elephant behavior. Why am I telling all of you? Because this chap putts around in an early IIA 88" (or maybe a Ser II, there was only one lamp on each wing). This Rover is totally stripped, no windscreen, top, grill, pretzel shaped steering wheel etc. The best scene is where he has just darted a young bull elephant to attach a radio collar (biologists love to do this). He gets the collar attached and before he can inject the tranquilizer antidote the matriarch female elephant comes cruising up- and boy is she pissed! He didn't bring another dart so he has to inject the antidote by hand before the tranquilized bull dies. So, he jumps into the Rover and drives up to the prone bull and tries to inject the serum. Well, the matriarch will have none of this and charges the Rover. She rams the Rover in the breakfast with her tusks and pushes it a good 50 meters in reverse. The whole time the cameraman in the back of the truck is filming, and ducking to avoid being hit by branches. The rover is going faster in reverse under pissed-off elephant power than it could in reverse high range overdrive! I got it on video too! Pretty cool, this kind of action is why I bought a Land Rover and why I'm a biologist. I had wanted both since I was 8 years old, watching all those Wild Kingdom episodes. But I haven't been rammed by any aquatic insects or fish lately... Cheers, Morgan U.C. Berkeley '69 88" From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 21 15:04:38 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 15:04:38 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixon hates Land Rovers? On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Listening to Dixon since he first got his first Land Rver running, he > has always advocated going out & trying to drown, sink, bash, mash, > slice & dice Land Rovers. He has always advocaed using Land Rvers to > the max in situations that would be detrimental to the continued > existence of straight panels and paint. You are fairly correct to this point. Land Rovers are there to be used, for work and play, not to sit as some sort of "babe magnet" in chrome resplendent. > He has always advocated not washing Land Rovers, and the first time I > mentioned painting mine, came out solidly against dolling one up. Dolling one up yes, washing the outside panels etc yes. I think they look a lot better covered in mud. However, I have never come out and said that the undercarriage should never be cleaned. I wrote a long article in the OVLR newsletter outlining why you should clean the underside, inside the drums etc after a good mud run. > started reminding me of Thadious J. Toad after his first whiff from a motor car. > he just had to prove there was no place a Land Rver could not go and just had to > try to amass the largest collection of Land Rovers in Canada outside the armed > forces. :-) to the first part. You should always have one dedicated to play Mr. Toad... Actually, if I ever get that 101, I may just name it Thadious J. Toad. Thanks! For the second, I already have more than the Canadian Armed Forces. However, I rank well behind others in OVLR that are solidly into the double digits. > I'm glad he doesn't hate your car. Just don't let him drive it into the > swamp. Don't worry, I'm not going to be driving Richard's 88 through the swamp... From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1914 Date: 21 Feb 95 14:48:56 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: speedo ?'s >because i am religious about mantainence. my question is this. how does the >odometer function? does it work off of the speedo cable? do i have to >replace the speedo cable? do i have to replace the speedo itself? It's all in the cable, odometer is also cable-driven. The flattened end of the cable that goes into the gearbox tends to eventually get eaten up, causing slippage (speedo first wobbles, then leaps incoherently, finally dies). Also, loss of lubrication eventually causes the cable to seize and break. With LHD's, the speedo cable is prone to be grilled by the exhaust downpipe... Replace the cable (get the right one, there are dozens of versions!) From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1914 Date: 21 Feb 95 14:49:05 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: welcome and gearshift rattle >Can anyone out there shed some light on a question about the gearshift >lever on a 73 Series III? What should be on the bottom of the lever to stop >it from rattling? The drawing in my Series III workshop manual seems to >show a round ball with a rubber O-ring on it. I also remember reading that ... >to be a brass sleeve which fits over the ball! I don't know if this is ... The brass sleeve is most definitely a PO gizmo and shouldn't be there. The cute little rubber O-ring... yeah, the shiftstick ball that goes into the selector rods does have a diagonal groove where this ring should go, I replaced several of those. But they typically last like from now till tomorrow afternoon. Best is to pack everything with some nice thick grease. Also, if the stick rattles there's usually something off-centred w/excessive play in the line of drive shaft(s)/gearbox/tires/front alignment leading to vibrations at certain RPMs. With everything running smooth, the stick doesn't rattle even if it is a bit loose. Nothing to worry about, in a few years you'll be used to it... :-> From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Feb 21 11:55:03 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:55:03 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Still more 88" Series IIA Questions (Play:temp/elmmsg.tmp) In message <19950217.82749E0.13CF9@tia.UUCP>you wrote: > Questions: > Roof: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > second piece that goes on top of the first piece. Looking at it from the > front, you see a gap. What is that? Safari roof. This keeps the main part of the roof in the shade so that it is not radiating heat into the vehicle. > Spare: > On the hood, does it obstruct the view that much? I'm 6', so I should > be able to see over it fine, right? If the spare isn't on the hood, where > does it go in the 88" with the rear inward facing seats. I'm 6'4" and have to slouch to see out of my SIII. (I've even removed the sun visors to get the extra 1/2 inch of vision) For highway driving the tyre on the hood doesn't block any of my vision. For off road use, it's in the way. When you're trying to dodge rocks and the like, the hood mounted spare increases you in front blind spot. I find it especially annoying when I come over the top of hill and can't see a bloody thing until the nose drops down a bit (on the other side of the top of the hill), so until I can see again, I have no idea whether I'll find a gentle slope or feel the front wheels drop into a gully. Despite all of this though, I carry my spare on the hood (bonnet). -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1914 Date: 21 Feb 95 14:49:00 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RHD to LHD conversion questions > Does anyone know how much effort is involved in converting a > vehicle from right-hand drive to left-hand drive? Let's put it this way: At our club workshop, we've perpetrated about every crazy shit you can do to a Land Rover - sat IIA 88" bodies on shortened RR frames, decapitated a 2-door RR and turned it into a pickup, built a competition vehicle: front 110, rear S.I loadspace, Lightweight frame coilsprung, Rover V8, Jaguar automatic gearbox, and radiator, oil cooler + electric fan sitting *behind* the bulkhead on the loadspace... let's see, did I forget anything? Anyway, the one thing we never attempted after having done a run-up of the work+costs involved was a conversion from RHD to LHD. I'll spare the list the details, would eat at least 10K of bandwidth... Just forget about it, ok? From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Tue Feb 21 11:56:44 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:56:44 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: bits Howdy all, A couple of thoughts- First, I tried to help out with my suggestion of Great STuff expanding foam but then some good counter points were raised. Those got me to think; whenever we get equipment packaged with the foam packing, the foam is enclosed in plastic bags. So, squirting the expanding foam in a big plastic bag should contain the mess and stickyness AND MIGHT Be the way to go. Of course, I'd waste a can or two trying it out before doing something permanent. Second, with regard to RHD. Just get in and drive, it quickly becomes second nature. My dormobile is great, I don't even notice the rhd or the left hand shifting. The worst thing I can say is that I still turn my head to the right to look backwards when backing. I drive my tiger (LHD), Mazda (LHD) and the rover; you just get in a do it. The controls in each are different too but anyone driving a car should be able to remember where the lights or wipers are. Third, the new Jeep cherokee has a spare tire carrier that bolts way down low to the frame and rear bumper but holds the tire up above a hitch. Anyone have a 109 and a jeep side by side to see if the carrier would be adaptable? I want the spare off my hood but don't want to subject the rear door to the extra weight (even putting on a third hinge). ALternatively, do the tire carriers advertised in LRO work on older series vehicles? DO they attach to the frame? Is the rear corner strong enough (without reinforcements) to hold a tire carrier? The latest Land Rover ads are very good. Caught the one on the tube for Jolly Rancher candies and the one in Car and driver "what to drive when your the food". Also caught an interesting article about very far north canada; car and driver took a chevy blazer, ford explorer and one other but NO land rovers :^( bye John Hess, Land- -Rover Dormobile, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda GLC owner. jfhess@wheel.ucdavis.edu From Bill Caloccia Wed Feb 22 00:41:30 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:41:30 GMT From: Bill Caloccia Subject: well, actually the pedals in a RHD rover are Dixon writes: > looking down at the pedals, they are gas, brake, > clutch when looking from left to right uh, nope, not in my rangie, nor in the ford escort, R19, R21, vauxhaul, or any other RHD car I've driven... From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Tue Feb 21 18:38:53 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 18:38:53 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Camel Goodies, etc. Triple C Motor Accessories just sent out their new flyer. It includes (all Land Rover stuff): Camel Trophy hats (about as close to Belise at this couch potato will ever get) - $11.95 Corgi, Dinky, & Solido Land Rover toys - various Best 4X4XFar T-shirts - 2 for $16.95 Best 4X4XFar bumper stickers - 2 for $3.50 Coaster sets. Buy 4 @ $1.50 each, get 2 free (woopee) Waxoyl kits, $41.95 (2.5L) Keyfobs - $5.95 License plates - $4.95 Video - The Land Rover Story. "New for 94. Includes Series I to Discovery including military Variations. 60 min" - $35 Video - Anything You Can Do. "Five classic original films from the Land Rover Archive compiled by Heritage Motor Films." - $35 Also pins, patches, & the watch. In California, 408 942 5485 They said they only have a handful of the videos in stock, and will only have 24 of the Camel hats next week when they come in. Have fun Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Tue Feb 21 18:42:08 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 18:42:08 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Even More FAQs for Taylor Something the IIIrd Ooops! Almost forgot: Q. What is the best way to mount a CB antennae to a Land Rover? A. The best antennae mount is the Lucas Tri-Polar Magnetic mount antennae. The poles have been shifted 90 degrees so it sticks to aluminum. Rovers North sells them. Ask for Lanny and tell him you need a Lucas Tri-Polar Magnetic mount CB antennae. I think they're on special in this month's flyer. Q. Why does a 2.25 gas Land Rover take almost 20 seconds to 60mph? A. A stock Land Rover has 8 speeds forward and you must wait 2.1 seconds between each shift. Q. What is the Camel Trophy? A. The Camel Trophy is a lighthearted romp by team members of various countries through exotic vacation spots. The members are chosen in a raffle by Ed McMahon of the Publishers Clearinghouse Sweepstakes. There is a short competition during the 2 week cruise/tour. Some of the events include: Mango Juggling The 3 legged Coconut tree climb Spank the monkey (if indigenous to the location) Thong Raids on the beach (formerly panty raids) Drinking pitchers of Guinness while seated in large tubs of ice. But no Camel Trophy would be complete without the Land Rover Discovery Camel competition. Each team is equipped with a brand new Land Rover Discovery, equipped with 300 TDI engine, 5 speed, Warn winch, skid plates, roof rack, jerry cans, sand ladders, high lift jacks, rally computers, and GPSs. A camel is then strapped to the roof of each vehicle. The drivers procede to rev their powerful TDI engines to 4000rpm and beyond. This really pisses the camels off. And when camels are pissed off they spit. The team who's camel spits the farthest wins the competition. More Baloney on wry from... maloney@wings.attmail.com From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 21 19:58:13 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:58:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: speedo ?'s On 21 Feb 1995, Stefan R. Jacob wrote: > With LHD's, the speedo cable is prone to be grilled by the exhaust > downpipe... Which vehicle are you talking about? On a I - IIA there is no difference in cable routing or exhaust. Never looked at the routing in a III. Rgds, From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 19:59:22 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 19:59:22 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: speedo ?'s On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Russell G. Dushin slurred: > Yo! But check the cable first! > rd/nige none Ummmmmmmmm Russ?...he said the Speedo had quit first....so the speedo is dead...long live the odometer...oops *that* just quit too....now *that could have been the cable...but you know the speedo head is hurtin'.. steve..... From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 21 20:02:08 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:02:08 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: well, actually the pedals in a RHD rover are On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > Dixon writes: > > looking down at the pedals, they are gas, brake, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > uh, nope, not in my rangie, nor in the ford escort, R19, R21, vauxhaul, or any > other RHD car I've driven... Please! This is for the neophytes who have never seen a RHD... :-) From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 21 20:03:24 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:03:24 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: FAQ's Taylor missed Hey!.....Let's convince Taylor to purchase a RHD 88.....then tell him that to keep from magnitizing the aluminum he *must* drive on the left..... "Pay no mind to those horns lad"........ poor Taylor.....god save the rest of us..... steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Tue Feb 21 17:26:41 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 17:26:41 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: bits > Third, the new Jeep cherokee has a spare tire carrier that bolts way down > low to the frame and rear bumper but holds the tire up above a hitch. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > they attach to the frame? Is the rear corner strong enough (without > reinforcements) to hold a tire carrier? I saw a neat little carrier that was made by a guy from San Luis Obispo, or some where about there. He made a frame from ~1" square tube that used the tail gate eyes on the rear cross-member and the tail gate pins at the top. In esense it was a skeleton tail gate that was outside the hinged rear door. It held two jerry cans and/or a spare tire. To open the rear door you would have to drop it down and climb over, or remove it and set off to the side for an overnite stop. All of the weight was put on the cross member. Easy to drop down (but heavy), easy to take off and leave at home. R, bg From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Feb 21 18:00:40 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 18:00:40 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Weekend Desert Jaunt Ben learned many things this weekend: 1.It is very disconcerting to get a Rover airborne, especially when it is because the ground dropped away from under you and when you are sans top. 2.Land Cruisers and Jeep Wrangerlers are wide enough to drive with a tire on each rail of a US width train track, while SIII Land Rovers are narrow enough (and toed in enough) that both wheels would fall inside both rails. 3.Distributer rotors can be held together with duct tape when the need arises and the Rover will still run. (I drove for about 25 miles this way and only needed to stop and apply more duct tape once) 4.When driving without the top and the windscreen down, try not to hit the puddles going too fast. The spray tasted salty. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications Internation Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 21 21:05:14 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:05:14 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Elephant eats breakfast I caught that too. That IIa was a real classic. It looked like it had been rolled a few times by the shape of the stearing wheel (the truck was stripped at the waist). The biologist's name was Ian Hamilton, I believe. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 21 95 Feb EST 1921 Date: 21 Feb 95 21:15:16 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: RHD to Lhd and lever rattle On a 2a it is relatively easy, Move the clutch and brake pedal assemblies to the left, remount the clutch and brake pipes obtain and fit a left hand steering box obtain and fit the left hand hand brake assembly parts or convert to cable operation obtain and fit the bottom steering ams from a LH model, move the steering idler from the right to the left, some vehicles have a hole in the front crossmember to facilitate this, on others it is necessary tocot and weld the crossmember, it can be very difficult to remove the steering idler. obtain and fit a lockable left hand side door lock, unless you want to get in at the right side. reroute the indicator switch wiring. gear lever rattle - some gear levers have a plastic ball on the end which wearsa nd breaks off easily, others have a metal ball which can also wear. one of the causes of the rattle can be a resonant frequency the cure for which is to change the weight of the gear lever. a simple method which has other spin offs is to remove the knob and slide a length of 1/2" hose over the lever and refit the knob. This is a handy place to carry a short length of spare heater hose, makes the gear lever look better, changes the resonant frequency and makes the lever warmer in the winter. this technique can also be applied to the transfer lever. Just been out in a bar and saw a piece on CNN about Land Rover and Range Rover at a dealership somewhere, could not hear the sound track but the piccies were nice, my first sighting this year. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From "T.F. Mills" Tue Feb 21 20:18:03 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:18:03 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Even More FAQs for Series III Taylor Q. If I drive my RHD on the left side of the road, does the chassis number change? A. Yes, but you have to be driving at least 50 mph, and it happens so fast that you need to keep eyes firmly affixed to the data plate on the firewall. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Feb 21 20:12:25 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:12:25 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: CNN: US Land Rover Centers (Yuppie!) Anyone seen the newsclip on Lou Dobbs' Moneyline on CNN today (2/21/95)? Dobbs reports that Land Rovers are "fast becoming an American Icon", and that sales show "no signs of letting up". In the newsclip Jan Hopkins reports on the new Land Rover centers. Talking about how Americans love their Sports Utility Vehicles (SUVs), Hopkins reports on "the ultimate retail experience where consumers can shop for Land Rover vehicles and products all under the same roof [scene of Range Rover in Eddie Bauer or Orvis tackle look alike store]. Sales at centers are sky high topping those at regular dealerships by 77 percent. This one outside of Atlanta was the first, opening its doors late last summer." Interviewing Mark Hennessy, Pres., Land Rover North Point "The facility itself, our employees, and the product just give a total buying experience and then later on a total ownership experience. It's the Land Rover lifestyle." Hopkins goes on, "That Land Rover lifestyle [scenes of the '95 Range Rover driving uphill and fording a creek] sent vehicle sales soaring 145 percent last year, thats compared to an 8 percent rise for the overall luxury market. The centers come fully stocked with everything a Land Rover lover could want, from shirts and jackets to hats and bags. Merchandise and high powered machines are sold side by side. The off road driving track [scene of Defender 90 on banked concrete track managing oversize speed bumps] is another sales tool where dealers can show off the Rovers four wheel drive." Keith Ashworth-Lord, Auto Analyst, Daiwa Securities goes on to say "Land Rovers got a very strong franchise indeed in the United States, and one can add to that Japan as well, due to tremendous growth market for it. Its appealing to a certain niche. Its involved in a niche thats a growing niche." Hopkins continues, "Seven Land Rover centers are up and running, nearly two dozen more are in the planning stages [scene of oversize barn /stables with oversized tiled windows]. Despite sticker prices ranging from 28,000 dollars [scene of '95 Range Rover climbing through a bog up to the top of its wheels] to 54,000 dollars consumers are buying these British imports just as fast as the manufacturer can ship them." Yippee!! ..or is it Yuppie? --leave it to American marketing to pitch and sell a Land Rover "lifestyle". Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From Morgan Hannaford Tue Feb 21 20:11:04 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:11:04 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: contraptions on the backs of Rovers On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > I saw a neat little carrier that was made by a guy from San Luis Obispo, > or some where about there. He made a frame from ~1" square tube that used the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > down (but heavy), easy to take off and leave at home. > R, bg To expand on this good idea, I saw a Rover in Berkeley that used a very similar set up. But, when he folded the skeleton down it was level with the bed so he could use it when sleeping in the back of the 88 to support his legs/head. Kind of an extended platform. I think it was featured in an Aluminum Workhorse issue (like a "this old Rover" bit), the guys name is Cliff Watts.? Maybe it was the same guy? ciao, Mo From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Feb 21 21:53:07 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:53:07 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: bits >> Third, the new Jeep cherokee has a spare tire carrier that bolts way down low to the frame and rear bumper but holds the tire up above a hitch. Anyone have a 109 and a jeep side by side to see if the carrier would be adaptable? I want the spare off my hood but don't want to subject the rear door to the extra weight (even putting on a third hinge). ALternatively, do the tire carriers advertised in LRO work on older series vehicles? DO they attach to the frame? Is the rear corner strong enough (without reinforcements) to hold a tire carrier? William.Grouell@eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) wrote: > I saw a neat little carrier that was made by a guy from San Luis Obispo, or some where about there. He made a frame from ~1" square tube that used the tail gate eyes on the rear cross-member and the tail gate pins at the top. In esense it was a skeleton tail gate that was outside the hinged rear door. It held two jerry cans and/or a spare tire. To open the rear door you would have to drop it down and climb over, or remove it and set off to the side for an overnite stop. All of the weight was put on the cross member. Easy to drop down (but heavy), easy to take off and leave at home. The guy in San Luis Obispo, California is Jeff Tobin. He is a custom Range Rover accessory designer and builder. He has 4 more carrriers left for sale, call him at (805)544-7927. PS: Jeff occassionally writes for the Aluminum Workhorse (travel, repair tips etc), and I'm hoping he will join this group. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Feb 21 21:56:30 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:56:30 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: bits jfhess@ucdavis.edu wrote: >> Third, the new Jeep cherokee has a spare tire carrier that bolts way down low to the frame and rear bumper but holds the tire up above a hitch. Anyone have a 109 and a jeep side by side to see if the carrier would be adaptable? I want the spare off my hood but don't want to subject the rear door to the extra weight (even putting on a third hinge). ALternatively, do the tire carriers advertised in LRO work on older series vehicles? DO they attach to the frame? Is the rear corner strong enough (without reinforcements) to hold a tire carrier? William.Grouell@eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) wrote: > I saw a neat little carrier that was made by a guy from San Luis Obispo, or some where about there. He made a frame from ~1" square tube that used the tail gate eyes on the rear cross-member and the tail gate pins at the top. In esense it was a skeleton tail gate that was outside the hinged rear door. It held two jerry cans and/or a spare tire. To open the rear door you would have to drop it down and climb over, or remove it and set off to the side for an overnite stop. All of the weight was put on the cross member. Easy to drop down (but heavy), easy to take off and leave at home. The guy in San Luis Obispo, California is Jeff Tobin. He is a custom Range Rover accessory designer and builder. He has 4 more carrriers left for sale, call him at (805)544-7927. PS: Jeff occassionally writes for the Aluminum Workhorse (travel, repair tips etc), and I'm hoping he will join this group. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Feb 22 01:05:49 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 01:05:49 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Guinnes for Dixon Pierce sez... > Quick, someone get Dixon some more Guinness. If he sobered up, we'd never > get any answers to Land Rover questions! ;-) Oh, No!! Not *Beer* being discussed on LRO!! Look out, look out! The net police will decend like hordes of locust! Mum will be cross....again! HeHeHeHe... Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Feb 22 01:06:22 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 01:06:22 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: speedo ?'s T.R. Since you say the speedo stopped working first... then the odometer stopped working, it sounds like you need a complete unit and the cable might still be good.. Easy enough to check the cable.. two big screws hold your instrument panel in place - but be careful you don't disconnect any wires when you pull it out. You may want to disconnect the battery first. Three small screws hold the bottem end of the cable to the transfer box. Pull out the cable and see if it looks broken. If the cable is OK and you feel lucky, you could try disassembling the speedometer. Sometimes the drive mechanism inside siezes up. If it has, or if the gears for the odometer are stripped, and you can't fix it, you're no worse off than you are now. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Feb 22 01:06:09 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 01:06:09 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: more roof questions Taylor queries... > If one could find them as I hear they are rather rare, is it possible > to put the tropical roof on an old 88" Ser. IIA and the full door and Sure... I've got a '65 IIa 88 Station Wagon that has a tropical roof and rear door.. not a big deal.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 21 22:30:42 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:30:42 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Matchbox Outlets Someone was asking about the Matchbox collectibles outlets... Here's three locations, courtesy of the Collectibles Forum on Compuserve. Roger, I know of three Collectible Centers that are carrying the Yesteryear line. Harold's Place Lynn, MA (617) 595-4135 Neil's Wheels Bethpage, NY (516) 293-9659 Kiddie Car Kollectibles Reading, PA (610) 375-4780 Frank --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 21 22:30:24 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:30:24 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Iveco > The Iveco engine range is a combination of the Ford and fiat ranges. Ouch! Fix-Or-Replace-Daily + Fix-It-Again-Tony? Sounds like a citroen in the making! (Actually, I have no personal experience with Fiats, but Fords suck.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 21 22:30:30 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:30:30 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Introduction from new poster Howdy! I too would be interested in any tips or advice you come across in regards to overlanding. Is there enough interest to warrant setting up an Overlander mailing list? (It could be open to lesser vehicles too.) Or is there such a thing? (Once I get my net host set up, I'll start such a list, if there's enough interest.) One of the questions I have is in preparing for a trip such as yours (Top to bottom), is how much money does one need to save up? Obviously, funds are needed for fuel (human and rover), but what else? Visas? Camping fees? Enquiring minds want to know! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 21 22:30:38 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:30:38 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: missed FAQ's Some more missing FAQ's... Q. How do I get my wife/husband to agree to purchasing a Land Rover? A. You don't. Just buy it, get divorced, and then convince the judge to award you alimony to help support your "baby". Q. Can young children be of assistance when driving a Land Rover? A. Not when driving. They do make excellent wheel chocks when parking, though. Q. Can a Land Rover run on alternative fuels? A. Certainly, and they often do. Many are powered by tow trucks, helpful strangers, and newfoundlands. Q. What is the best source for parts for a Land Rover? A. Any Land Rover close enough to get there and back before sun-up, but far enough away that its owner doesn't know you. Q. Which is better, a Land Rover sII 109", a case of good beer, or a loving, caring, beautiful, intelligent wife? A. This is a tough question. Many claim the Land Rover, but there are those that prefer the beer. Q. How many Land Rover Owners does it take to change a lightbulb? A. At least nine. The relative merits of genuine parts versus aftermarket products must be discussed, with of course, the consideration of the value of equivalent, common, american replacements, which leads to a lively symposium about the validity of non-original Land Rovers, degenerating into a heated argument about which particular Land Rover model is the best, incorporating, naturally, a joke about a Corgi or Dinky model being the best, starting a comparison of various miniature Land Rover collections, culminating with a trading frenzy, whilst the remaining participants rehash the benefits of cooking on a galvanized grill versus the resulting toxicity. Eventually the bulb *is* replaced, at which point, seeing as how it's Lucas Electrics, it promptly burns out again. Top Ten ways to get out of a speeding ticket when driving a Land Rover ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 10. "Honest, officer, I thought this was a 35mph zone!" 9. "I forgot that my speedometer is callibrated for 15" wheels." 8. "The Queen drives a Land Rover, and you wouldn't give *her* a ticket, now, would you?" 7. "I'm really sorry sir, it's just that I normally drive a citroen and I'm not used to having so much power" 6. " First my wife left me, then my frame started to rust, and now this!" 5. "I was *trying* to slow down, but the brakes were designed by Lucas." 4. "Once you get past 40mph it all seems the same." 3. "Nah, it just *sounds* like it's going 120." 2. Two words: Legs and Cleavage. 1. "I couldn't have been going that fast; It's a Land Rover!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 21 22:30:27 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:30:27 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: 2.25l 4-cyl questions. > Another question while I'm wasting bandwidth, how many 88" Ser. IIA > owners out there with the 2.25l 4-cyl use them as daily drivers? Just a > quick survey. I was doing that for a while 'til my concience got the better of me and I started taking the bus. I had no problems, and didn't mind at all, though I couldn't really hear the stereo. Would have been nicer if I had an Overdrive in the 88". The seats in the 88" are better, but overall I like my 109" better. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Gfrancis@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Francis) Wed Feb 22 00:26:31 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:26:31 -0600 (CST) From: Gfrancis@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Francis) Subject: '83 Range Rover Convertible Hello, I have a 1983 Range Rover convertible that I bought last June. I have been looking all over the U.S. for not only parts but clubs and of course information on the thing. I know just about nothing about it except that it was imported by itself. It is completely converted to U.S. standards and runs pretty well. It has the 3.5 liter engine and a 4-speed manual. I have done a lot of work to it and am trying to restore it to good condition. I need some information about it for when I sell it and I would like to get some information about your group. Do you know of anyone else that has such a vehicle? I was told that there are 200 of them in the world but I am not sure if that figure is correct. I am in Austin Tx. Do you know of any of your members in Austin or any good shops around here? Also are there any good parts outlets around here? I have used Rovers West and British Atlantic but they are fairly high priced on some items. i am in need of a new clutch so any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank You. Jon Francis From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Feb 22 02:06:00 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:06:00 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Elephant eats breakfast Morgan reports.... > There was a good show on the Discovery channel last night. none .......... > The best scene is where he has just darted a young bull elephant .......... > So, he jumps into the Rover and drives up to the prone bull and > tries to inject the serum. Well, the matriarch will have none of > this and charges the Rover. She rams the Rover in the breakfast > with her tusks and pushes it a good 50 meters in reverse. The whole Look at the video again... did you notice the bent steering wheel after the Rover get's rammed?? Pretty neet, eh? Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Mark Perry Wed Feb 22 03:39:49 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 03:39:49 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: That zincing feeling My nurse galpal tells me zinc is good on cold sores, which should be the last word on the subject (-: Mark P Wpg MB CA 66 IIA 88 From Charlie Wright Wed Feb 22 10:09:59 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:09:59 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Even More FAQs for Series III Taylor On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, T.F. Mills wrote: > Q. If I drive my RHD on the left side of the road, does the chassis > number change? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA > http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) Ahhh, but Doktor Mills, it is not so simple. The chassis number will change, but as with all such quantum effects, it will only change when it is not being observed... very similar to a kettle boiling. What you fail to mention is that the number will appear to _decrease_ as the Rover approaches c (v=speed of light), but this is a relativistic effect. It is in fact the result of OTHER chassis numbers increasing at the same rate while yours slows... but you'll need the high-compression V8 to try this experimentally... hey kids, don't try this with the windscreen down. C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England More questionable science from your local Quantum Mechanic and Rover Geneticist... From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 22 11:02:16 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 11:02:16 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: FAQ's Taylor missed Q Are Land Rover *users* as patient as owners? A No,not usually.The British Army sometimes gets so cross with them,they throw them out of aeroplanes.Then they feel sorry for them,and throw themselves out as well. Mike Rooth From Sekerere@aol.com Wed Feb 22 08:52:18 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:52:18 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Door Seals hi david, Are you talking about the weather stripping around the door openings? If you are I have some stuff that works really well. I am busy trying to reweatherstrip the 'Anitchrist" at the moment. this stuff just snaps on, rather than riveting on like the original LR stuff. It is also cheaper by miles, and just as good (about $1.50 a foot). If this is what you are interested in I will find out its brand name and get that info to you. Hope this will help. I did the rear safari door in about 1hour from cold chiselling off the old stuff (30 years old) and putting on the new stuff. The only thing is it cannot be used for the bottoms of the openings and that stuff is expensive, about $30 a foot. Cheers Chris W (1966 88" Series IIA w/ hardtop) From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Feb 22 09:44:42 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:44:42 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: What price, LRO Perrusing February's edition of LRO, which arrived only yeaterday, I chanced to notice the "new" subscription rates - *65 bloody pounds*! At today's rate, that's $103.94 to the US! Supposedly, this is the air mail rate, but I don't know of any airplane that takes a month or longer to cross the Atlantic. Maybe production costs are astronomical in England...they must be, with the obviously considerable advertising revenue they receive. I get half a dozen trade magazines over here...and all of them *free*...supported entirely by advertising revenues. Are we being ripped off or what? Land Rover owners are the most parsimonious bunch in the world. I can't help but think that this is going to cost them circulation. If LRW were to *drop* their rates, they could capture a big chunk of LRO's business. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "thomas r. coron" Wed Feb 22 10:49:58 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:49:58 EST From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Rhd to LHDog Dixon writes: > RHD is not a problem in Canada. Ontario requires a sticker, or some > sort of designation in the back of a RHD vehicle to tell the public [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > seat, but is actually legit. > Dixon I enjoy the looks on peoples faces when they finally realize that it's not really a beagle mutt driving a Land Rover, just a right hand drive. I'd like to put a steering wheel on the left side with a couple of little brown paws fastened to it, sort of like a canine "Toonces". Tom From Bill Caloccia Wed Feb 22 16:00:12 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:00:12 GMT From: Bill Caloccia Subject: look soon for the new nFAQ (notso frequently asked questions) > Mike Rooth writes: > Q Will I need a left hand fan,if I dont already have one? > > start the engine,and poke the head through the gap until contact > > is made with the fan.If it removed the head from the left hand side, I write: > Gee Mike, I thought the fans (like drains) only spun the wrong way south of > the equator... Mike replies: >>>Hmmmm......what happens at the Poles,then? -------------------------------------------------------------- Well, this is not the first time this question has been answered, so: The following is loosely translated from a little known "Basic Land Rover Physic", originally written in 'Mock Sweedish' and submitted to the journal of unreproducable experiments. -------------------------------------------------------------- It depends whether the axis which the fan spins on is exactly alligned with the axis of the spinning globe, (then the land rover is on the pole). If so, then if the fan is spinning the the same direction as the earth the rotation of the land-rover slows down, as perceived from a static point in three dimensional space not affected by the spinning of the globe. However if it isn't rotating in the same direction then you need to change it or point the land rover in the reverse direction, otherwise, the land rover's 4wd drive train will experience 'wind-up' and promptly flip over when the wind-up reaches the spring-motor release break point, 'k'. However, if the fan is oriented so as to provide lift, then the Land Rover will experience thrust in the vertical direction. Conversely, if the PTO take off shaft is connected to the Earth's pole (axis) then the Land Rover drive train will experience no wind up and is free to obey the laws of intertia regarding it's orientation to the axis, and the forces exerted by the 2.25 engine. Of course, this is hypothesized for a Land Rover with a frictionless drive train, and neglects the affects of polar cold on the viscosity of lubricants and the friction of air on moving Land Rovers. Your rotational inertial may vary. The acutal experiment is left as an exercise for the causal observer. -------------------------------------------------------------- Anything else ? From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Wed Feb 22 10:58:19 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:58:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: taylor... I don't know who taylor is, but I just hurt myself laughing at some of the posted FAQ comments. please, keep it up...as a non roverowning member, i need all the joy I can get! Of course, if anyone had a landrover they wanted to, say, donate to a lonely, rover-lusting college student, I would gladly accept the offer..... keep roverin' and smilin' thnks everyone, steve swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 22 17:15:25 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:15:25 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: discovery lights On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, Tony Morris wrote: > I own a 94 US Discovery. I beleive the canadian and ? european models have > running lights that come on automatically when you turn the car on and off > when you turn it off. Does anyone know a simple way to convert mine to this > mode. Volvo's have a hidden switch for example. > Thanks We have to have lights on when driving over here (in DK and SE anyway). Practically all new cars sold here are equipped with running lights. Owners of older cars usually buys a small kit with a cheap relay, a switch and a "powerthief". That is mostly people without a crankhandle that all REAL cars are equipped with as standard! I bought a simple and cheap buzzer due to my forgetfulness. Also added a switch in case i need lights with the ignition off. A Danish couple went to Spain last year with their new car with automatic runing lights. They had to pay a $150 fine for driving with lights on during day hours! Spain is also the country that gave us Franco and Santana ( i don't know which is worst). sv/aurens From as23@ns.cityscape.co.uk (pcn) Wed Feb 22 16:22:42 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:22:42 EST From: as23@ns.cityscape.co.uk (pcn) Subject: Overlands Folks, Just hought I'd add that I'm very interested in overlanding issues as well as I'm planning a trip next year from Manchester England to India. Maybe those of us who are interested could have a mini mailing list?? Any thoughts? While I'm on I was also wondering why I keep getting messages other than the digest as my company has only one address and while one digest mail is OK, multiple messages is a bit more difficult!!!! Any heres to any good ideas on landying for large distances, Cheers, Rob Meredith. From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 22 11:24:50 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:24:50 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: What price, LRO On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, MR ALEXANDER P GRICE wrote: > Perrusing February's edition of LRO, which arrived only yeaterday, I > chanced to notice the "new" subscription rates - *65 bloody pounds*! At > today's rate, that's $103.94 to the US! Supposedly, this is the air mail > rate, but I don't know of any airplane that takes a month or longer to > cross the Atlantic. Been reading my front page wee editorial in the OVLR newsletter eh? We picked that one out at the beginning of February... The little jump in price brings an issue of LRO to $12/issue here in Canada. We can stop by the bookshops about town (those that carry British magazines) and pick up a copy for $7.75 (plus GST & PST) or $8.62 (thereabouts) when you are finished. This latest increase is nothing more than an attempt to quickly recoup the three million pounds, or so, that EMAP spent buying LRO. The competition is cheaper, far cheaper, than LRO. In fact you can pick up LRW at the newstand here too. However, it is cheaper to subscribe than to buy monthly (I thought thats what the idea of a subscription was all about, not some added service where it gets delivered to your door, but a source of steady income. From C Taylor Sutherland III Wed Feb 22 11:32:21 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Ha ha. Very Funny. It is to laugh. It's a good thing I'm not one of those people who gets upset. :) I did like the top 10 ways to get out of a speeding ticket. And someone mentioned getting to 60 in 20+sec. Hell that's about average for all the other cars I have had. I did have one car that did better but I promptly destroyed it. :-) I'm SORRY you don't like my asking all my questions! :( But you'll get over it. And for those who wish I would at least go SEE one, well, as soon as my masters program's schedule allows me to (this weekend) I'm going to go up to a "dealer" in Waynesville, NC and take a look/drive. Yes, I wouldn't mind having a Defender 90, but I don't like it $30,000 worth! Maybe later when I get an honest to God job instead of using my own rapidly depleting funds. Then why don't I keep my Blazer? Because it was a wrecked '89 when I bought it in '91. It's only got 90,000 mi on it and the transmission is having serious thoughts of going to that great drive train in the sky. But then again, it never did work correctly. You have to crawl in and there isn't enough roof for junk when you've got 4 people in it. A SerIIA may go a little slower, but accelerate nearly the same (2.8 chevy v6 manual transmissions have NO power...the automatic does better for some strange reason) and get about the same gas miliage. Ooo...it won't have cloth seats and it will be loud...oooo, like I care! The fj40 had vinyl seats, was louder than Disaster Area (Douglass Adams), and only went 70. But it's problem was that the seat was so damn close to the gas pedal that you had to get out of the car to take your foot off the pedal! Other than that, I almost bought it from my sister (ok stole it :) ) Anyway, I just thought I'd retaliate in a nice way as to have some hope of being able to get the occasional helpful hint when, in fact, I do get one. Shhheesssh! From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 22 17:34:46 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:34:46 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: First time here On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, Mike Rooth wrote: [snip] > off the road*.For instance,in and around this town,the local > authority has spent thousands of pounds to create a cycle track, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > situation has gone past farce.For heavens sake,you *cannot* protect > prats from themselves. Same thing on this side of the north sea. If i hit a cycle on the motorway it is almost certainly my fault. My own private survey shows that 99.9% of all cyclefreaks are suicidal with a death wish stronger than my wish to drink beer on a friday night. Cyclers are the holy cows of the late 20'th century. If i run down a cycler in a place where s/he is not supposed to be i'll be treated the same way as an american lighting a cigarette. You simply can't have a few limbs and guts draped on the bonnet anymore. sv/aurens From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Feb 22 08:40:13 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 08:40:13 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Dixon hates Land Rovers? In message <9502212256.AA08617@colossus.apple.com> Russell G. Dushin writes: > > Maybe he is starting to mellow after having Land Rovers for ..what almost 3 > > years now?... Mine got its engine rebuild finished at about the exact same [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > wannabe! How's it you know so much about these beasts? You got a > collection of reference texts at your side?? > rd/nige Russell, Dixon came about a lot of his Land Rover knowledge the hard way. He started with a 109 that had been parked for something like 15 years. He started by going through and renewing all the hydrolics, by diassembling lots of the drive train and checking it out, renweing parts as needed. He started by trying to deal with a set of pistons who refused to budge. You might say he is a graduate of the Land Rover school of skinned knuckles. During that time he joined his local Land Rover club, and scrounged parts & parts cars to get his initial Land Rover running. He started by dealing with a rusty petrol tank that clogged the carb in minutes, and having to be towed back home to clean her up some more. He did it by the sweat off his brow, determination, persiverence and lots of hard work. Of course now I strongly suspect a touch of insanity made it all possible. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 22 11:49:09 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:49:09 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Why do I start these things..... Ok....I lunched a piston in NOTAJEEP........remember the trip through Pennslvania? well the timing was way advanced and the continuous load at full throttle over heated a piston and either the skirt is collapased or the pin bushing has done the deep six......rap rap rap when cold...goes away when it warms up...not a rod...but it *sounds* like it!!!!! Ok... pull ot the 5 bearing engine in storage.....posistion the rover as to use the winch to lift/pull/drag the lump into the shop... PTO winch sooooo.....walk to the drivers door, swing butt into the seat with legs outside, turn key push starter button...starts...WHOA! It's in 1st low range! grab shifter out of 1st...hops into 2nd aaaaaaaaaagh! hit key off...... swing legs in cab...push clutch, restart, select reverse, back up...swith off.....walk to front of rover......engine is laying there groaning "my bellhousing, my *bellhousing*...." blast........ and the 5 bearing and 3 bearing housings are different.......sigh.... more to come... steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 22 12:17:48 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:17:48 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Dixon hates Land Rovers? On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Dixon came about a lot of his Land Rover knowledge the hard way. He > started with a 109 that had been parked for something like 15 years. Eighteen years actually. Tires (SAT's) still were good and solid, and I mean solid. Sitting in the 109 when we towed it out of storage felt like the road just wasn't there. Still using the tires though... :-) > He started by going through and renewing all the hydrolics, Rebuilding the first time around. Hours with Brasso etc polishing and cleaning out all of the cylinders. Eventually I got tired of this nonsense and just put new hydraulics all the way around. Should have done that at the start. I'm smarter now, but still cheap where something can be rebuilt. We just do a little cost benefit analysis before going crazy (somehow these equations are never applied before going on a mud run. Those cost me an average two complete sets of shoes a year) > He started by trying to deal with a set of pistons who refused to budge. They eventually came out with a large piece of oak and a large sledge. Trying to turn the engine (diesel fuel, penetrating oil etc in the cylinders for six months) resulted in not a few shattered sockets. Did you know that it really pays to buy the stuff that is guaranteed for life? Cleaned out Ottawa in that particular size. They never did ask how I could get a new one in the morning and return later that day with the socket wrecked. I 3/4" drive, eight feet of good crowbar, chain... > You might say he is a graduate of the Land Rover school of skinned knuckles. Most of the work was done in the middle of January & February. Not warm in a draughty garage with crushed stone floor trying to read the factory manual. & yes, I have quite a collection of literature on these things. > He did it by the sweat off his brow, determination, persiverence and lots of > hard work. Of course now I strongly suspect a touch of insanity made it all > possible. "Insanity is the sign of an accurate mind overtaxed" S. Holmes The Big Green Beastie is a rolling restoration project. Since hitting tha tarmac & swamps, the petrol tank has been changed (ran with a large army jerrycan sitting in the back toolbox for months), the rear crossmember (got kinda crushed), the hydraulics, the engine was reringed & bearinged in situ one afternoon (45lbs across made it tough to start when it was not 75f out & I was getting tired of hitting up friends at chem labs for ether by the pail), changed seals all over the place, changed the carb to a weber (have quite a collection of Solex's & fuel pumps & a nice set of single malt shot glasses) and some other various things. Now it is going to be rebuilt again, but for more civilised activities now that the Little Earth Pig is getting all ready to rut Rgds, From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 22 95 Feb EST 1912 Date: 22 Feb 95 12:35:37 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Erratic idling Chris is baffled: >The idle on my SRIIA 2.25 is all over the place. After warm up (with the >cold start knob about halfway out) when I push the cold start knob in the ...snip... ...snip.... I've adjusted the idle set screw and still the darn thing won't >settle down to a regular idle. I've got a Zenith type 36 IVE carb with the It's an accepted practice to blame the carb for idling problems, and more often than not this will be the case. But in your particular case I would gamble that the distributor is shot. Ok, a leaking Venturi O-ring seal could also produce these symptoms. Replace it just to be sure (no big thing), then get yourself a little DIY engine testing contraption w/strobe gun ('okay, timing - freeze!') and check out what the distributor does WRT dwell, timing, advance etc. Wish you luck. Stefan From "Walter C. Swain" Wed Feb 22 10:07:24 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Overlands > Rob Meredith threw out the following, in the hopes that nobody would reply 8*) > Just thought I'd add that I'm very interested in overlanding > issues as well as I'm planning a trip next year from Manchester > England to India. Maybe those of us who are interested could > have a mini mailing list?? Any thoughts? For Rob, Uncle Roger and others with an interest in overland trips, this is where my prime interests lie and why I got interested in Rovers in the first place, some 25 years ago when in Central America for an extended period. I got my 109 Series IIA from a guy who had done a *lot* of mechanical work in preparation for an extended trip to Nicaragua that never came about. (Never mind that the entire interior smells like a musty basement, and my daughter has been sitting in the back seat weeding out little seedlings that have germinated) In any case, long distance transcontinental trips are where it's at, at least for some of us. My wife works in southwest China, and we've been thinking about coming in from Europe through Russia. Just color us insane. NOBODY in their right mind would even think about driving in China. Even most Chinese hire professional drivers who have been through a 3 year training program. The roads are just awful-- In Yunnan Province the Burma Road is still the main east-west road. A good driver in a small fast vehicle (like a Misubishi Pajero (Montero) or a Jeep Cherokee (made by Beijing Jeep) may average 35 mph on a good day. If it's mobile, it's on the road and in your way. > > While I'm on I was also wondering why I keep getting messages > other than the digest as my company has only one address and > while one digest mail is OK, multiple messages is a bit more > difficult!!!! > Surprising as it may be, you are getting responses to your e-mail messages. I think that is the way it's supposed to work. If your employeer takes a dim view of excessive traffic, you may want to think about getting a personal account through one of the commercial or community based networks. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW: 'SNOT-A-NADA Davis, CA USA With appoligies to Steve Denis and all the NOTAJEEPs From "David McKain" Tue Feb 21 11:43:31 1995 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:43:31 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Crank Handle Hey, it sure is great to hear about the left handed starting cranks. I'm left handed myself and it'll be a lot easier for me if I can get hold of one of those. Can anyone tell me where they are available. The Rovers Northe catalog didn't have any listed. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Wed Feb 22 11:02:46 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 11:02:46 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Tools I have become interested in obtaining a tire inflation device that can be run off the engine compression. These were very common many years ago but seem to have been replaced with the cheap electric versions. Or as and alternative has anyone done the R/D to make one for themselves. Any info would be appreciated. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies Still Rover im-paired but making progress! From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Wed Feb 22 11:26:38 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 11:26:38 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Overland Uncle Roger and those interested, I like the idea of swapping overland ideas and things. Deep inside all of us Rover owners is the desire to take a long trip in our trucks. Few ever get the chance, but we all dream of it. I can just sit in mine and see uncharted territory filling the view across the bonnet. Over the time I have been on this list, many people have shared and batted back and forth many ideas about camping and traveling in their Rovers. Why don't we try doing it just on this list. If it gets to big then go to a seperate list. Just a thought. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies Dreaming of a long, slow trip in my Rover. From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 22 13:56:47 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:56:47 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rhd to LHDog On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, thomas r. coron wrote: > I enjoy the looks on peoples faces when they finally realize > that it's not really a beagle mutt driving a Land Rover, just > a right hand drive. I'd like to put a steering wheel on the > left side with a couple of little brown paws fastened to it, > sort of like a canine "Toonces". Hmmm, this has certain merit... :-) From Jon Humphrey Wed Feb 22 14:36:36 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:36:36 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Erratic idling >Chris is baffled: >>The idle on my SRIIA 2.25 is all over the place. After warm up (with the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >>cold start knob about halfway out) when I push the cold start knob in the >...snip... And Stefan notes; >It's an accepted practice to blame the carb for idling problems, and more >often than not this will be the case. But in your particular case I would >gamble that the distributor is shot. Ok, a leaking Venturi O-ring seal could >also produce these symptoms. Replace it just to be sure (no big thing), none One other thing you might check is the vacuum advance line to the distributor. It could have come loose. Later Jon From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Wed Feb 22 15:39:52 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:39:52 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: RH Tailpipes, etc. RP Wrote: >Also, the Tailpipe is run differently in RHD vs. LHD but I am not sure if >this is necessary or for guvernment regulations (MoT DOT, whatever) There is a conversion bracket that allows a RH exit 88 muffler to be installed on a chassis designed for LH exit. It fits on the outside of the frame opposite the RH exhaust hanger bracket. You have to drill & tap the frame to fit it. One benefit is that the RH exit mufflers are about $20 cheaper than the LH exit mufflers. The PN is...NRC5081 WHOA!!!! Rovers North just increased the price of this bracket more than 200% from $6.90 (last catalog) to $15.00. Jeez. And I thought $6.90 was a lot. ------------ Also, in the February LRO in the picture of me in front of Ben Smith's 88 with Britsh flag in the background, the person standing to the right of me is Keith Steele, another netter. ----------- I've lost the original rough idle thread, but it sounds as though the idle is lean. Could it be that the solenoid valve is stuck in the closed position? Remove it from the carb and ground it to something (hot lead still attached). Have someone turn the key. Watch the cut off valve. (watch for sparks + fuel) It should actuate/retract once the key is turned. If it appears to work, try turning the mixture screw out 1/8 turn at a time (note where you started from). Continue until it smooths out (if it does). Stop there. Your exhaust pulse should be strong and steady at this point. I'm assuming you've already checked plugs, points, timing, etc. A rich mixture will cause problems too but will usually foul the plugs & cause the engine to die. ------------------ On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, Tony Morris wrote: > I own a 94 US Discovery. I beleive the canadian and ? european models have > running lights that come on automatically when you turn the car on and off > when you turn it off. Does anyone know a simple way to convert mine to this > mode. Volvo's have a hidden switch for example. > Thanks It's funny you should bring this up. I was going for a long walk on Sunday and there was a Disco parked on the other side of the street. Just before I passed it the flashers flashed, it made a thunking sound like door locks cycling, and the dome light came on and stayed on. There was no one else around. Is there a reason for this? I was a good 25' away. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Wed Feb 22 12:11:37 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:11:37 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: children, wives and Land rovers previously, from uncle roger Q. Can young children be of assistance when driving a Land Rover? A. Not when driving. They do make excellent wheel chocks when parking, though. I can add---- A. yes, they are really good at staring at the cold start light and the temperature gauge and announcing when it's ok to push the cold start knob in. Also, to exercise my little guy I had him PUSH the dormobile to rotate the engine when checking valves! Q. Which is better, a Land Rover sII 109", a case of good beer, or a loving, caring, beautiful, intelligent wife? A. This is a tough question. Many claim the Land Rover, but there are those that prefer the beer. Actually, IF you sell your soul, you can have all three (like me ;^) ), although you want to make sure you get a loving, caring, beautiful, intelligent wife THAT WON'T drink the beer. And on a more serious note, check your local library for "Investment Biker" by Jim Rogers. This guy retired from wall street at 37 and took his girl friend on a round the world trip by BMW motorcycle (note the link to rovers?). If you can stand the financial commentary, the trip details are interesting. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From Easton Trevor Wed Feb 22 13:53:00 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 13:53:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: RHD Pedals Bill responds to Dixon uh, nope, not in my rangie, nor in the ford escort, R19, R21, vauxhaul, or any other RHD car I've driven... The almost universal configuration is l to r clutch,brake accelerator or brake accelerator on slush pumpers. Alfa Romeo 1750 had clutch, accelerator, brake to aid in heel and toe shifting. Throttle control is done with your foot, Clutch and brake with your leg. From Easton Trevor Wed Feb 22 13:35:00 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 13:35:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Sea Rovers and Anoraks > Re.You have to get a Sea Rover Feb 21st Taylor, if purchasing the Sea Rover option, remember that the Birmabrite body and steel chassis create a galvanic cell when exposed to salt water or any water containing inpurities. This can result in large electrical charges being built up in the operator with the obvious detrimental (to health) effects on stepping ashore. In our area (Great Lakes) Canadian National Railways avoided this problem by commissionning some special steel bodied 109 pick ups. Unfortunately due to the increased mass they wouldn't float and were thus confined to rail yard operation where they were readily able to compete with freight trains in the shunting competitions. Even without bull bars. One of these may be just what you are looking for as it looks just like an old Buick from a distance. Same dull orange tint even after the CN paint wears off. >Re: Ano-rak It is a place where you keep outdated calendars. Or is it a receptacle for tired rear extremities. Trevor Easton teaston @dqc2.dofasco.ca From "Kurt J. Repanshek" <75577.3111@compuserve.com> 22 95 Feb EST 1915 Date: 22 Feb 95 15:28:54 EST From: "Kurt J. Repanshek" <75577.3111@compuserve.com> Subject: 1957 Land Rover 1957 Land Rover, Series I longbed pickup truck for sale. Near total restoration with original parts. New paint, exhaust, brakes, gas tank, wiring, bumper, seats, panel, glass. Runs great. $10,000 OBO. 801-783-5778, Oakley, Utah. From Sanna@aol.com Wed Feb 22 16:26:45 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:26:45 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Are you me? I don't know Dick O'Kane. Funny guy? There were some very humerous articles I used to read in the old R&T in the '60s. Maybe that was he (he he). I don't remember one on a LR. From David John Place Wed Feb 22 16:58:19 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:58:19 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: welcome and gearshift rattle Gearshifts sometimes rattle when the rubber boot is worn out. Try a new one they are not expensive. The verticle groove has a piece of spring metal in it in the red knob shifter. If it is out it rattles. I use a spring attached to the firewall and out around the lever. It works fine. Checking the spring tension on the detent ball can also stop some of the slop and stop the rattle. Dave VE4PN From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Feb 22 15:01:00 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:01:00 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Tools > I have become interested in obtaining a tire > inflation device that can be run off the engine [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies Still Rover im-paired > but making progress! I have one in my Rover that I just went and looked at for a brand name. Not a mark on it. I bought it >10 years ago at an auto parts store. As I recall it was made by the same company that makes pressure gages and air hose fittings. "Milton" comes to mind. A good auto parts guy should be able to find it and order for you. There is a valve that you put in, in place of one spark plug, a lenth of hose that will reach the rear of a 109, and a pressure gage. The first question always is; Don't it fill yer tire full o' explosive gas" No it don't. That's because the engine is idling and the valve pulls in 99% outside air because there is a vacume in the intake manifold. It does heat the air so that you need to over pressurize the tire then adjust the pressure after it cools a while. Works fine, lasts a long time. Regards, Bill G. From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 22 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 22 Feb 95 17:29:39 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: SICK 1962 SER 11A TURNER 2.5L 4 CYL ENG....HELP February 22, 1995 I have a diagnostic problem that I hope my colleagues can help me with. I drive a Series IIA Rover with a rebuilt Turner 2.5 liter engine that has a Weber 2-barrel carburetor. The engine presently has 6,000 miles on it. Approximately 1,000 miles ago, my engine started to spit and jerk, particularly when shifting up the gears. Eventually, it would die sometimes and I could always restart it and if I kept the choke out, it would go reasonably well for some time and then start choking again. I messed around with the idle screw and advanced it with some reasonable success. Finally, I had to give up and take it to a Land Rover mechanic who thought that my carburetor was dirty. He kept the car for a few days, messed around with the carburetor and told me that the carburetor was dirty, that he cleaned it out and and noted that the points and plugs were in good shape. I asked him to put an in-line filter on, which he did. Approximately 1,000 miles later, I am now starting to experience difficulty in going up the gears. The engine seems to sputter and jerk as I go from first to second and then to third. When I come to a light, the idle seems to be very low and occasionally the alternator light will come on. I also noticed for the first time that when I let off the pedal there is a "putting" sound that makes the engine sound like a motor boat. Most recently, when I shut off the ignition, the engine intermittently continues to run in a jerking-like fashion. All this seems to improve a bit when I pull out the throttle about one quarter. Lately, even pulling out the throttle doesn't clear up the problem like it used to. The engine is easy to start and this problem, though intermittent, is becoming more frequent. I recently put in a can of carburetor and injector cleaner which, thus far, has not helped. My fellow colleagues, I ask for help in making a diagnosis and a prescription for its treatment. Is there something inherent about Weber 2-barrel carburetors that causes this? I failed to state that this engine is a 4-cylinder one. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Benjamin G. Newman, M.D. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 22 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 22 Feb 95 18:14:41 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 22 feb in the 14 weeks that I have lived in the US I have had to try and adjust to many things, spell checquers that can't spell, drivers on the wrong side of the road etc. etc. now I have found out from the digest why I have got it all wrong, for the past twenty five years of driving a right hand drive Land Rover I thought I was accelerating with my right foot and declutching with my left. A non functioning , or erratic functioning speedo can also be caused by the speedo drive worm on the gearbox output shaft being loose, it is not keyed to the shaft and can spin on the shaft, or more precisely the shaft can spin inside the gear, particularly when the output bearing wears a little and the bearing seats deeper in the taper, thus loosening of the clamp action of the shaft end nut. Uncle Roger Not all Ford engines are made in Detoit!! the latest european 2.5 DI diesel engine is a very good example of diesel engine development. Regards Bill Leacock From Lloyd Allison Wed Feb 22 23:40:19 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:40:19 GMT From: Lloyd Allison Subject: the Web Contributions are certainly welcome [should this be an FAQ?] but I am not sure what is the best mechanism - any advice ? We have an ftp site but it seems scary to make a directory writeable; is that the norm? If you have an ftp site then I can `get' the information from there. In fact the web can link to ftp files also use URLs ftp://....... or file://......... if they are "stable". I have taken the liberty of saving some LRO traffic and HTMLing it, (with acknowledgment) hope nobody minds, (this includes those paint numbers that come around) LRO Lloyd Dept. of Computer Science, Monash University, Clayton, Victoria 3168, AUSTRALIA tel: 61 3 905 5205 fax: 61 3 905 5146 email: lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Feb 22 16:08:15 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:08:15 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: SICK 1962 SER 11A TURNER 2.5L 4 CYL ENG....HELP > February 22, 1995 none The engine seems to sputter and jerk as I go from first to > second and then to third. When I come to a light, the idle seems to be very low > and occasionally the alternator light will come on. I also noticed for the first [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > engine sound like a motor boat. > Benjamin G. Newman, M.D. I can't tell by your net address where you are, but you could be suffering from the wonderful United States of America, Environmental Protection Agency's little winter time joke. They forced a seasonal change of the gasolene formula to add more "oxygen" for better cold weather emissions. Ha Ha the jokes on us... my Rover won't run fer shit unless I put Super in it. There's one guy here at work who complained to me of similar problems with his old International. He had gone through the ignition and fuel system, looking for the solution. I told him to try hi-test, he did, problem gone. And thanks to the Arthur Daniels Midland Company for lobbying the EPA and Congress, to force us to burn more ethanol in the winter, so as to save the snail darters, spotted owls, ADM expense accounts, stock dividends, ect. The really sick fact is that; the production of ethanol from corn uses more energy (from petroleum) to produce, than it contains. The only reason that ADM can make money is because we tax payers subsidize corn production! R, bg From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 22 16:41:33 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:41:33 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land-Rover under the channel Your posting of FAQs on the list, wherein you said that, while Land-Rovers certainly don't float (although we all know the top of the roof can be inverted and used as a skiff, Santana-type preferred), they can ford the channel (or the Marianas Trench), reminded me of my old limerick: A bold adventurer from Dover, Tried to ford the channel by Rover; He said, "I'm Havre-bound!" But the poor blighter drowned; Tho' his Rover continued on over. The moral is: make sure you've got enough air tanks for how long the trip will take in 1st gear-low box. Sanna mentioned the Sea Rover. I've not heard of this one but it sounds remarkably similar to the River Rover. I even have a photo of that one around some place (in a magazine article). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Wed Feb 22 19:07:40 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 19:07:40 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Ben Newman's Running Problems Ben Newman asked: >The engine presently has 6,000 miles on it. Approximately >1,000 miles ago, my engine started to spit and jerk, particularly when >shiftingup the gears. Eventually, it would die sometimes and I could always >restart it and if I kept the choke out, it would go reasonably well for some >time and thenstart choking again. Ben, My guess is that it is fuel starvation. If your mechanic was on the up and up re dirt in the carb, it could be a case of dirt clogging the fuel pump or the pick up tube. Remove the sediment bowl from the fuel pump. Pull out the screen and try to blow through it. If you can't, clean it with carb or brake parts cleaner. Clean out the bowl too and replace it. Lift out the RH seat and remove the cover over the fuel tank. Undo the 2 screws holding the pick up tube (L shaped fitting with the fuel line to the fuel pump attached to it). Remove it and try to blow through it. If it's clogged blow it out with compressed air or carb cleaner (watch your eyes). If it is clogged then undo the 6 (?) screws holding the fuel gauge sender. Remove it noting the direction the float arm points. Look to see if the tank is filled with crud at the bottom. If so, you'll want to drain it and blast it out with a pressure washer, then let it dry for a few days. Another thing it could be is that the fuel pump itself is bad. It should be putting between 1.5 and 3 psi. Fuel delivery problems can drive you bonkers. The only other thing that I can think of that would cause this would be if you have been starting it with a right handed starting crank. Good luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 22 17:30:22 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 17:30:22 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: News Flash Just heard from two different sources today that DAP Enterprises of Wareham, MA will be sold out to BRITISH ROVERS of Cavendish, VT! Apparently Al Tocci has decided to move on to new endeavors. Bruce up at British Rovers will be taking over on an ordered basis from Al, who apparently will assist with the transition... Best of luck to both Bruce and Al in their respective futures... cheerz Jim Roverheadus bizzarus eveninmysleepum From "Walter C. Swain" Wed Feb 22 18:02:08 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:02:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: DAP > Just heard from two different sources today that DAP Enterprises of Wareham, > MA will be sold out to BRITISH ROVERS of Cavendish, VT! Apparently Al Tocci [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > taking over on an ordered basis from Al, who apparently will assist with the > transition... Dap Enterprises? Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW Davis, CA USA From "T.F. Mills" Wed Feb 22 20:07:33 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:07:33 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: '83 Range Rover Convertible Jon Francis asks about: < a 1983 Range Rover convertible that I bought last June. I < have been looking all over the U.S. for not only parts but clubs and of [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] < British Atlantic but they are fairly high priced on some items. i am in need < of a new clutch so any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank You. I know next to nothing about RRs (well, slightly more than a non-LR product), but I doubt couvertibles were ever factory-made. LRO Aug. 1987 has article on converting RRs into convertibles. It's more of an ad than an article (p. 8-9). The people who do/did it are Specialist Vehicle Conversions, Hendall Gate Farm, Herons Ghyll, Nr. Uckfield, East Sussex TN22 4BU, 082581 3158. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Russell U Wilson Wed Feb 22 22:57:27 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:57:27 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Re: Crank Handle On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, David McKain wrote: > Hey, it sure is great to hear about the left handed starting cranks. > I'm left handed myself and it'll be a lot easier for me if I can get > hold of one of those. Can anyone tell me where they are available. > The Rovers Northe catalog didn't have any listed. I'm not sure but I think that our man Taylor has an extra he could sell you. cheers Russ From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Wed Feb 22 23:11:52 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:11:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Rover's on TV I just got done watching The Hunt for Red October on normal TV, (I had noticed the RR before this), but what struck me as a surprise was that during one of the commercial breaks, there was a commercial with two kids in the jungle searching for the secret mayan ruins and when they find it, it is the real taste of fruit, squared (namely jolly ranchers, those hang-on-I-wanna-rip-out-all-your-fillings-and-any-other-teeth-you-might-have- left candies that the kids must love). The funny thing is that their mode of transport is a muddy Defender90 with a full cage. Is that an option for the D90, or is this another defender altogether? regards, steve swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Wed Feb 22 23:14:59 1995 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:14:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Left handed cranks... Obviously you were looking in the wrong catalog...I found those quite clearly listed on page 82 of the latest Rovers Naught catalog:). Cheers to everyone for the smiles and to Taylor for gratiously taking such a beating... stv swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Feb 23 15:59:03 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:59:03 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Taylor, Taylor, Taylor. Taylor writes:> > It's a good thing I'm not one of those people who > gets upset. :) We're all glad too believe me. > I'm SORRY you don't like my asking all my questions! :( Ok I've kept quiet on this one being so far away but... It aint the number of the questions but the content. The type of questions that have been asked tend to indicate to long time series car owners that you will not be happy with a rover. (OK guys jump on me now) See why below. On the Blazer: > You have to crawl in and there isn't enough room for junk when you've got 4 people in it. If I recall You've been asking about 88's. I suggest that an 88 is not the right vehicle to have if you wish to carry 4 adults and gear, it can be done but the few blazers I've seen are *much* bigger that an 88. You obviously liked the Toy... Rice rocket FJ40. Good start but.... A IIa 88 will not do 70 mph comfortably, it will be noiser that the Fj40 in general. I dont think the seating position in a 88 has much more leg room than a fj40 (someone help me out here) and you will probably have to stoop to see out of the windscreen. Look i love my rover, but it is not the most user friendly vehicle in the world. They are simple to work on but everything takes at least twice as long as it should. They demand care, love and respect from you and return in kind. 'Rover owners talk about charisma, character and "ability". We tend to ignore or dismiss things like cracks in the aluminium body, excessive fuel consumption, oil-leaks, and that god damned water leak that drips onto your accelerator (RHD) or clutch (LHD) foot. (has anybody *ever* stopped it for more than a day and if so how???) Owning a 'rover (series cars and early Rangies in particular) requires a good deal of commitment on your part, they should be part of the family, not just a car. Once Upon a time Terriann write an article for a "Wannabe" does anyone have a copy to repost? I think it really summed things up well. > Anyway, I just thought I'd retaliate in a nice way as to have some > hope of being able to get the occasional helpful hint when, in fact, I > do get one. Once you get your own all thing will become clear. The list will help, probably more than occasionally. Just go in with your eyes wide open as to what you are letting yourself in for or you will be sorely disapointed. Now that I've got off of my soapbox to Taylor. I spotted an ad for a landy here in SA, would go for a look-see if it wasnt so far out of town (not to buy just to look.. no $$) Why?? 109" Land - Rover Perkins Turbo-diesel Turbo 400 Trans Power steering Twin fuel tanks new interior and paint bull bar tow bar wide wheels cb etc etc. $6000 !! Sound interesting dont it. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From JDolan2109@aol.com Thu Feb 23 01:39:51 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 01:39:51 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Taylor's Quick Survey Daily driver here. '61 88" IIa w/OD. 28K in 94. Starts every day one way or another. Have had problems, but just fix 'em. Last winter when -40F (central Vt.), it was the one that jump started all the neighbors. Hand priming of fuel pump is necessary at first cold start of the day or the battery will run flat. That's new but now routine. Only a problem when heavy snowfall the night before. Someday I'll find a better battery. (yeah, folks I know- the pump has a flaw too)(Spare carried) As far as daily drivers go- I'd drive my LR anywhere but if it was an airplane, I might want to check a few things first. Can't wait for mud season!! Then comes firewood. It really is the tractor that you can drive to town! Re: fixed/locking hubs- Sometimes get better mileage with hubs locked, sometimes unlocked, sometimes in 4 wheel, sometimes 2 wheel. Not much difference noted. Given my experiences, I think that for fuel economy, I'd improve the carb first. Webber 1Bbl here. When mileage drops below 17 (usually 18-20), I start tinkering. Usually points. Knowing the vehicle and being consistent and conservative with the right boot helps. 'May' is its name. (chosen because it instills hope) Also short for: 'Mother Maybelle- Flower of the East, Prairie Schooner And Cosmic Traveler' Quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! Jim From tia!taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Thu Feb 23 02:18:03 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 02:18:03 From: tia!taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Taylor...why he wants torture... > It aint the number of the questions but the content. The type of questions > that have been asked tend to indicate to long time series car owners that you none I ask about speed just to know. The LC DID have a bigger engine so I attribute the extra speed to that. Of course, asking about the speed does go against the saying, expect nothing and you won't be disappointed. > but the few blazers I've seen are *much* bigger that an 88. This is an S-10 Blazer...the little one. > You obviously liked the Toy... Rice rocket FJ40. Good start but.... > A IIa 88 will not do 70 mph comfortably, it will be noiser that the Fj40 in [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > than a fj40 (someone help me out here) and you will probably have to stoop to > see out of the windscreen. The second fj40 that we had that had no leg room was an 84...bad year. The 72 was much better. > ignore or dismiss things like cracks in the aluminium body, excessive fuel > consumption, oil-leaks, and that god damned water leak that drips onto your > accelerator (RHD) or clutch (LHD) foot. (has anybody *ever* stopped it for I know that they won't behave like a pull-it-into-the-Jiffy-Lube-once-every- billion-miles. I don't expect it to. But then again, I have heard from a couple owners who got theres professionally rebuilt or just BUILT that they are an interesting car to tinker with on the weekends to see what it was that was squeeking or leaking and they expect them to get them where they are going, slowly but surely. Of course, if I bought it from some dude who happened to find it in his barn one day and decided to sell it because he didn't know what it was, then I would expect all sorts of problems to prop up all the time with no warning. I have driven OLD cars, and other than dropping the tranny at 65 mph, it did allright. And it only did that because I made a 10 minute trip flooring it the entire way and it didn't take to kindly to that kind of torture. The moral of the story, everything in moderation, take good care of it, and it will take good care of you. Besides I can always trade its engine (or it for that matter) to a rover nut down the way and get a completely built-from-scratch-one. Again, I don't want to break any speed records, just endurance ones. :) Forgive the naivitee of the questions but, again, I have to ask EVERYTHING as I can't just go down the street a few blocks and find one. To my knowledge, I haven't seen but one series landie in this area (in someones driveway) in the 5 years I've been in Clemson. That includes adds for them. Now I'm going up to N.C. to see if I can drive one. If after that time I come back and tell y' all you can have your hobby :), so be it...I'll just save a bit more for the Defender 90...ok a LOT more. Taylor...soapbox to soapbox... BTW, my daily driving consists of 5-10 miles a day to and from campus. Truly I wouldn't want one to commute 30-45 minutes everyday, although it has been done. I make the hour long trip up into the blue ridge everyonce in a while to admire the stars or tackle the many dirt paths that lead nowhere. The longest trips I make are deep into the mountains to try out the real trails ( if I can ever find them). And my Blazer can't make it up them any faster than 45 unless I get a good start and the slope iFrom jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 23 03:37:58 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 03:37:58 EST From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: Re: Taylor...(+parts query) >> general. I dont think the seating position in a 88 has much more leg room >> than a fj40 (someone help me out here) and you will probably have to stoop to >> see out of the windscreen. [snip] >BTW, my daily driving consists of 5-10 miles a day to and from campus. Truly >I wouldn't want one to commute 30-45 minutes everyday, although it has been >done. Though not a IIa... I often commute over an hour each way at speeds of around 75mph (er, well maybe that was 55mph if any law enforcement types are reading ;) in my 1974 88" with basically stock everything. I rebuilt it myself from a new frame a few years back (although I did have someone else rebuild the engine... though I regret that I didn't do it myself from a purely pedagogical perspective). Serious hills slow me down, but not below 50 (except when I drove cross country during a heat wave with all my worldly goods strapped in on and about my rover). On a different note... I am looking for a couple parts (or sources/part numbers for them): 1. The banjo fitting to let me hook an oil pressure gauge *and* warning light (mine was stolen a few weeks ago). I already have the oil pressure gauge and fitting (although I just forgot its brand...) Is there a domestic source for these? Are there any weird thread issues? 2. A "genuine parts" fuel pump with sediment bowel (also recently stolen in the great parts heist). I had one I bought from Vance, and was going to rebuild to replace mine which is some old, weird aftermarket thing which is on its way out. I don't think RN can get these anymore (and I'd prefer the economy of used if anyone has a spare to unload). Any help is greatly appreciated. -jory From Jimmy Patrick Thu Feb 23 07:07:16 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 07:07:16 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: discoveries flirting >Just before I >passed it the flashers flashed, it made a thunking sound like door locks >cycling, and the dome light came on and stayed on. There was no one else >around. Is there a reason for this? I was a good 25' away. Oh, come on now Bill. Don't you know flirting when you see it. She probably saw you looking at her funny and could tell you were interested. All that noise and flashing lights... wow! jimmy -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Mike Rooth Thu Feb 23 12:30:28 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 12:30:28 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: SICK 1962 SER 11A TURNER 2.5L 4 CYL ENG....HELP I'm glad to see I'm not the only cynic in the world.Go get 'em, Bill!As usual they're trying (an succeeding) to sell you something. Like a new car.It was reported in a paper over here,last weekend that in takes more energy to build a new car than that car will burn in its lifetime.Mind you,they should really exclude Land Rovers. I dont think they meant *that* sort of lifetime! Cheers Mike Rooth From Jimmy Patrick Thu Feb 23 07:40:18 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 07:40:18 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Mabel Hi all. Well, Mabel is back on the road after a few days hiatus. The front prop shaft was completely knackered, you could grab it at the splined joint and push up and down about 2 inches. So I replaced that one. Then the next day, the rear prop broke at the drive flange. ouch. I replaced that one too. It was a bear getting the rear prop off at the diff. (tell me about it, Mark!) I put some wellie in it and managed to get it off. Then I put the new one on backwards (i.e. bolted to diff end first. this makes it impossible to bolt onto the drive flange. ooops! Unbolt the rear again, put the front on first, then reassemble procedure reverse of assembly(tm). Now, say it in a whisper (can't let her hear), she is running fine and there are no unusual noises at all. All I hear is the sound of the 2.25, the tranny, and those 7.50x16's on the road. Who needs a stereo? One stupid question from the mechanical novice. How do you work those grease nipples?? I have a grease gun filled with lithium grease but I don't know exactly how to work the nipples. I would like to go around and fill them all. How do you know when they are full of grease? This is the basic stuff that the manuals never cover, because everyone knows it already. Well, I don't. Okay, so that was more than one question. Still waiting to scan those pics from my Wales off-road trip. Thanks to all who have shown an interest. jimmy jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Feb 23 09:52:15 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 09:52:15 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Taylor's got more Qs, we've got more As Taylor added: none Someone might say that if I wanted a ragtop 4x4, then get a jeep. Well, I drove one. It had power, I have to admit, but jeeps flip, the steering was mushy, and no one but people 4 foot tall could sit in the back comfortably, so while the price was nice, the truck wasn't. none Taylor, Stock Land Rovers can be a wee bit tippy too. But you can improve on the design with the Rovers North Mansfield Anti Roll bar kit. It consists of 2 long rectangular bars made of some sort of heavy metal, each weighing 743lbs. They are attached to the bottom of the left and right frame rails with supplied u-bolts. This lowers the center of gravity and greatly improves the stability of the vehicle. Don't attempt the installation alone. They'e a bit awkward. Ask your wife/girlfriend to help. They aren't too expensive but the shipping really sucks. Call Rovers North and ask for Lanny. Tell him you need the Rovers North Mansfield Anti Roll Bar kit. Unfortunately it's not on special this month. Steering is much more precise than a jeep. I wander why you should make such a statement. People up to 4'8" can comfortably fit in the back of a Land Rover. It's cavernous compared to the jeep. Baloney with cheese maloney@wings.attmail.com PS. Taylor, you're brought more fun to the list than it's had in months. If you don't buy a Rover we'll all be really dissapointed. Then you'll have a chance at turn around. Oh, and as for tippiness, I can't think of ANYONE on this list who's ever rolled a Land Rover. ;-D -------------------- From Mike Rooth Thu Feb 23 13:55:09 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 13:55:09 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Mabel Jimmy, Aree the grease nipples you mean the new ones or the existing ones?If the latter,its a good idea to unscrew them and clean them out of old,solid grunged up grease. A straightened paper clip works well,and you can use it to push the little ball down in the tip of the nipple. You are lucky if you've got a grease gun that actually *works*.Most of the cheap ones dont,in my experience, they just piss grease all over the place,and none gets into the place you are aiming for.Dont put *too* much in. If you do,you will burst the seals on the track rod ends UJ's etc.Two or three strokes is usually enough. Any help? Cheers Mike Rooth From Sanna@aol.com Thu Feb 23 09:43:56 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 09:43:56 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: SICK 1962 SER 11A TURNER 2.5L 4 CYL ENG....HELP Benjamin - My recent experience may be totally disimilar to yours, but here was my problem & final solution. I drove my IIa from Wisconsin to Oregon this Christmas. It's a '70 w/300k+ on the engine. I have the one-barrel Weber. It ran like a top on the way out, but around Helena the engine would die when brought to an idle after highway miles. It would be dificult to re-start for a while, then it would start up ok. I went around & around thinking it was somehow a feul/carb problem. People suggested carb icing (supposedly a problem with the Weber), dirty carb, sticking floats, clogged feul filter/screens, but what it turned out to be was something completely different. My valves had worked themselves down to .0 clearance. When the engine got warm, the exhaust valves would expand slightly and not re-seat fully. This worked OK at RPM's, but when the engine rev's dropped, it could not sustain idle with reduced compression. It would be difficult to restart until the engine cooled slightly and the exhaust valves contracted enough to re-seat. Because of the engine conditions required to make all this happen (time/temp/rev's), the problem seemed bafflingly intermitent. Resetting the valve gap to .10 soved the problem. I hope this helps. - Tony From Sanna@aol.com Thu Feb 23 10:02:42 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:02:42 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Taylor...(+parts query) Call Brad @ Atlantic-British. I believe that they still have the old ones in stock. - Tony From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Feb 23 10:03:58 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 10:03:58 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Mabel's grease Jimmy- Be especially sure not to pump too much grease into your prop shafts....."hydraulic lock" or whatever you wanna call it, can result. Just be certain that you can still get full travel on it (ie remove one end from the diff and see that it can bottom out when compressed (and not bottom out against grease, so to speak)). So, when's Nigel's big date? rd/nige From "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Thu Feb 23 15:13:00 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 15:13:00 PST From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Subject: info please Just a quick request for a couple of bits of information. Firstly any of you yanks know of a locking diff kit called "LOKRITE" or similar name/different spelling for land Rovers and if you do, how about a supplier to ship to the U.K. Also, what is the proper name for "camel yellow" or the code for a shade very close to it. My Range Rover is in need of a lick of paint to cover all the scratches and "bald" patches. Any info can be sent direct to... g.seymour@sihe.ac.uk From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 23 10:16:13 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:16:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Taylor...(+parts query) On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote: > 2. A "genuine parts" fuel pump with sediment bowel (also recently stolen in > the great parts heist). I had one I bought from Vance, and was going to > rebuild to replace mine which is some old, weird aftermarket thing which is > on its way out. The fuel pump is AC. LR never made it, they just bought the pump from them. Thus the "genuine" part is the same as the one from third party suppliers. The only difference today is that the bowl is made of plastic and not glass (great shot glasses for the single malt, especially when they cost US$5.50 to replace pn 236891) > I don't think RN can get these anymore (and I'd prefer the economy of used > if anyone has a spare to unload). They still have them. Many of the used need to be rebuilt. The LR pn is AEU2760, though any supplier should have the kit for the AC pump available through order. Rgds, From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Feb 23 08:20:38 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 08:20:38 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: SICK 1962 SER 11A TURNER 2.5L 4 CYL ENG....HELP Benjamin, Put a timing light on the car & check your timing at idle then raise the RPM (You can do a static check first if you wish to assure that the timing is correct). At idle the timing should stay put and the mark should not hunt. When you raise the RPM the timing should advance then remain steady. Check to see that your vacume advance line is still connected. One fun thing to do is remove the distributer cap, suck on a vacume tube going into the vacume advance. If the plate with the points move and stay there for as long as you keep a vacume in the tube the vacume advance is probably fine. If all is as it should be in the timing arena, you can always run a compression test to assure that one of your valves hasn't taken an early vacation. You might want to try replacing the condensor. If your timing is right on and working correctly, and your compression is good then I would go back to the fuel system (You always need to look beyond your first guess if it doesn't solve the problems. but you can always go back if everything else looks OK) If your fuel pump diaphram were going bad you would not get enough fuel pumped to maintain acceleration. Was the sediment bowel & screen in the fuel pump cleaned out? You might also check hoses attached to your intake to see if you might have an air leak. This is not a complete list of things to check but it should give you some things to try besides pouring carb cleaner doen the poor carb. Good luck TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From C Taylor Sutherland III Thu Feb 23 11:31:08 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 11:31:08 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: left hand crank SEE! I'm not the only one who hasn't got a clue!!! :) I bow gratiously now and bid the silliness continue. ;) Taylor From Andrew Grafton Thu Feb 23 17:39:54 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 17:39:54 GMT From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re:Taylor, Taylor, Taylor. > consumption, oil-leaks, and that god damned water leak that drips onto your ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > accelerator (RHD) or clutch (LHD) foot. (has anybody *ever* stopped it for Whoever owned my current LR before me has solved this problem... S/he decided to fibreglass around every joint that leaked water in (fortunately this was not the case for oil out!!). This is great as no water gets in anywhere. Problem A : Try removing bolts that are covered up with fibreglass tape. Problem B : Try separating the roof from the body now! Problem C : Where the whitewash (or whatever was used to paint over the fibreglass tape) is peeling off, the _black_ gelcoat looks unsightly next to the white of the roof. Extrapolate these problems to include the floor plates and above the pedals and you have a small idea of how shortsighted someone can be... It doesn't leak water in, tho' :-) The trick is to drill the bolts out where appropriate and separate panels with a cold chisel. Surely there must be a solution which lets you remove bits _and_ which keeps the water out? Tell me if there is! All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Feb 23 14:54:56 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:54:56 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Taylor's got more Qs, we've got more As > PS. Taylor, you're brought more fun to the list than it's had in months. If > you don't buy a Rover we'll all be really dissapointed. Then you'll have a > chance at turn around. Oh, and as for tippiness, I can't think of ANYONE on > this list who's ever rolled a Land Rover. ;-D I've not done it, but I've seen 2 - one onto it's side and one 3 barrels and back onto it's wheels. The first was an RTV - the guy tried to be clever and went too high up the slope. His vehicle did exactly what we wanted - it gently tipped onto it's side whilst we killed ourselves laughing. The second was more serious: The event was a competition Safari (race) and the driver took the wrong line up a hill. To get back onto the track he had to shove his wheel up over a 1-foot lip. He mis-judged and flipped himself over. He did drive home afterwards, but he needed someone in-front to provide illumination as he'd knacked his lights... Both vehicles have roll-bars. (why do our lady-competitord not roll their vehicles? - is it significant? - inquiring minds want to know!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Thu Feb 23 13:58:46 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 13:58:46 -0500 From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: Maiden Voyage Last weekend I declared a national Go-Home-And-Work-On-Your-Rover-Day, so I skipped three days of classes and spent a hectic weekend reassembling my '66 88". When I got home, the beast was completely stripped of body panels, hardware, electrics, etc.(One of my friends painted it for me while I was gone). I managed to get it back together by tuesday afternoon, threw a bunch of tools and spares in the back, and set out for what promised to be an interesting journey. The longest trip I had taken it on to date was driving it 30 miles home when I first bought it, and I was now attempting something like 400 miles at one stretch. I can make the trip in slightly under 5 hours in my Jag MkII, so I figured on about 8 hours in the Rover. At speed, the beast was noisy, hard riding, draughty(didn't quite have time to put the door seals on), and excessively uncomfortable. I loved every minute of it! Other than running out of gas twice(thank god for jerrycans), the Rover ran flawlessly. I even passed a few cars. 55 seemed fairly comfortable(no OD yet), and it would happily do 65, but I didn't want to abuse the engine too badly. I made it back to Cornell by 1:30am reeking of petrol and with a very sore butt, but extremely happy. Anyway, I guess I was fortunate that my first Rover expedition went so well. A few comments/questions: DAP Enterprises - I was under the impression that DAP was buying the place in Vermont, not the other way round, although I could be mistaken. I've gotten most of my parts from them. Yes, I realize that they're not genuine parts and I'm therefore guilty of crimes against Roverdom, but the fact is is that DAP is 5 minutes away from my house and therefore much more convenient that waiting the 2 or 3 days for Rovers North. Also, the fact that most of their prices are approximately half of RN's helps. Obviously I wouldn't buy some parts from them, such as springs or engine parts, but how badly can you screw up a sidelamp lens or a brake spring? The parts I've gotten seem to be good quality so far, and Al Tocci has been very helpful with advice, etc. Steering Problems - At speed, the Rover was all over the road. I realize that it's not designed for highway cruising, but it was pulling rather violently in one direction or another. The PO fitted some sort of Goodyear monster truck tires on 10" rims, so these might be enough to cause the problem by themselves, but they're almost brand new and I'd like to keep them until they wear out. I was wondering if some sort of steering damper might help, or if it would be worth checking the alignment. It's also possible that someone did a lousy RHD-LHD conversion and forgot to change the rotation of the motor. ;-) Carburation - The PO also fitted a 2 bbl Weber with headers. The engine has plenty of power, but I can't quite get the mixture right. If anyone has any tricks for tuning these, I'd appreciate it. My expertise stops at SU's. bcw 1966 88" petrol From Kumaravel Natarajan Thu Feb 23 14:52:19 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:52:19 -0600 (CST) From: Kumaravel Natarajan Subject: Re: RHD to LHD swap >Date: 21 Feb 95 08:47:26 EST >From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >I never have any problems (and I swear all those cars running off the road >behind me are just bad drivers, really) No, I don't have to. I will definitely bring the vehicle back as RHD. I just wanted to know what's involved. Since Chicago must be the toll-booth capital of North America, I thought it might start to get a little tedious going through them so often year round. (But then again, at least I'd be getting exercise...and it wouldn't have to be my daily driver) >Date: 21 Feb 95 14:49:00 EST >From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >spare the list the details, would eat at least 10K of bandwidth... Just >forget about it, ok? Oh. OK. (But could you mail me with the details anyway?) Thanks. Vel From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 23 14:08:23 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 14:08:23 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: '94 LR Discovery for sale (last post... really!) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: '94 LR Discovery for sale (last post... really!) I know I posted this before, but I've come to my senses somewhat on the price, and would like to extend an invitation to comment on the vehicle or price. If you're even remotely interested, please let me know, as I won't waste the bandwidth on this again. (Unless requested to do so.) For sale: 1994 Land Rover Discovery. Black, fully loaded. Includes leather seats, seating for 7, automatic, dual sun roofs, dual air conditioning, pin stripes, tinted windows, rino bars, light guards. (Every factory option.) 13000 miles Asking price only $35,000 (US) OR BEST OFFER. This particular vehicle retailed for almost $42,000 with tax and license. I would consider the following vehicles as partial trade: 1) Land Rover Defender 110 (Yeah right!) 2) Land Rover Defender 90 3) Land Rover Range Rover 4) Land Rover series IIa or III 109 5) Land Rover series IIa or III 88 6) Toyota Land Cruiser. As you can tell, I'm "slightly" prejudiced towards "real" (uh oh... flame bait) er... I mean... um... well, the best! After all, while "brand X" may be famous, but Land Rovers are legendary! For those not familiar with the LR Discovery, standard features include: power steering, p. windows, tilt, cruise, remote locking with alarm, stereo tape deck with anti theft, dual air bags, fuel injected V8, power mirrors with defrost, intermittent wipers front/rear, 16" alloy wheels, aluminum body with steel roof, rear fog lights, remote mounted radio controls, full box frame, full floating axles, 8/11 inch wheel travel front/rear, locking center differential, full time 4WD, coil springs, 4 core radiator, extra trans cooler, p. steering cooler, 4 wheel antilock disc brakes, offset "pumpkin" in rear to match the front, class III towing hitch built into the frame, headlight washers, dual temperature controls, (driver and passenger), etc... etc... etc... Basically, ONE TOUGH VEHICLE! 4-Wheeler magazines 4WD of the year! Please pass this on to anyone you know that might be interested. Thanks, Dave Brown - Phoenix Arizona USA - debrown@srp.gov #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Feb 23 16:33:22 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 16:33:22 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: What price, LRO Sandy Gripes: > Maybe production costs are astronomical in England...they must be, with the > obviously considerable advertising revenue they receive. I get half a > dozen trade magazines over here...and all of them *free*...supported > entirely by advertising revenues. Are we being ripped off or what? IMNSHO, absolutely, which is why this lro only reads this stuff when someone else pays for it. If it came without the ads, or at least fewer of them, I'd consider it........but I get more reading pleasure outa ROAV's Gearbox and the OVLR newsletters...... rd/nige From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 23 95 Feb EST 1916 Date: 23 Feb 95 16:47:25 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: CB40 According to this months automotive industries mag the next LR project codenamed cb40 will be an entry into the entry level sport utility market dominated by the Suzi sidekick. Scheduled for intro in 1997 it will be a fun vehicle aimed at the lower end of the liesure market A 3 door model with possibly the BMW 1,8l or 2 l engine 94 worldwide sales of LR were 91k units, a 25 % increase over 93. Expect 110k in 95. Solihull has rom for expansion to 200k units by the end of the century. inc up to 80k cb40's. Rumours of a new model for 98 exist. Weekly solihull prod is now 2400 units. The mag also carries an article on boss Bernd Pischetsrieder as man of the year 95. talks about his career, the Rover plans and BMW usa. regards Bill Leacock. Limey in exile. From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Feb 23 16:56:12 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 16:56:12 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: RH Tailpipes, etc. > RP Wrote: > >Also, the Tailpipe is run differently in RHD vs. LHD but I am not sure if [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > increased the price of this bracket more than 200% from $6.90 (last catalog) > to $15.00. Jeez. And I thought $6.90 was a lot. If these brackets are the same as the one I once got for the farmrig (that had a rear xmember custom built and welded on, only they negelected to put the exhaust bracket on-'cause at the time there was no exhaust on it...) they don't need to be tapped. They come with expansion bolts....of which I have mixed feelings. Drill a tad too large and you're fugged. Aside from this, one thing y'all might want to consider is that for LHD rigs, there is an advantage to being able to hear your exhaust whilst driving. Thus, a LH exit exhaust might be preferred. A few years back when I considered LH vs. RH exhausts,in the cost/benefit analysis I did (YMMV, your opinions, too) I decided that the LH exit was worth the extra bucks (over the cheaper RH exit exhaust, for which you then need the bracket, and to drill your frame-which I didn't care to do). To each his own, rd/nigel From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 23 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 23 Feb 95 17:21:46 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Sighting in Movie In case noone else caught it... There is an awesome-looking black 110 (or 127) armored car in Tom Clancy's Patriot Games. Great shot of it sitting next to a checkpoint in Belfast. Mean looking vehicle! FYI, it appears that all the Clancy Movies feature Land Rovers "somewhere" in them. Cheers, R. P. Reid From Pierce Reid 23 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 23 Feb 95 17:44:23 EST From: Pierce Reid Subject: FAQ's compiled FYI: I have compiled the whole list of (lesser known) faq's and will send them to anyone who asks. As a result of several requests, I also sent them (with attribution) for posting on the Web. Just one question... Is Taylor real or is he a non-existant evil alter-ego/split personality of Dixon's sent to punish us for revealing that he secretly yearns to own a fleet of pastel-colored, boom-stereo-equipped, lowered Suzuki Samaurai's? Just wondering. Sorry Taylor... but hazing is a part of entrance into the Land Rover fraternity... you should have seen what I went through when I ran an 88 into the same tree twice within 2 minutes. But that said, you've been a good sport and we should stop now. Cheers, R. P. Reid From Sanna@aol.com Thu Feb 23 17:56:03 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:56:03 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: SICK 1962 SER 11A TURNER 2.5L 4 CYL ENG....HELP ...& if the mark jumps all over the place when you goose the gas, you've got timing chain problems. From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Thu Feb 23 23:07:12 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 23:07:12 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: the Web >>LRO Looks good Lloyd -- I'm preparing a new page about the mailing lists, how to and all that... Terri-ann, check out the Range Rover page Lloyd has - it has a good running history. Taylor, find a web client and read what Lloyd and Cray have on their pages... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Thu Feb 23 15:48:52 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:48:52 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: California registration Howdy from Davis (it's an ag (Agricultural) school, you have to say howdy) I may actually get the beast registered! I stood in line for about 30 minutes and then very nicely went over my story, producing a couple key documents and pointing the english and my interpretation. After the clerk checked with the omnipotent personage in the back office, it was decided to send my paperwork to Scaramento for the main guys to approve or not. I think this is a good sign. If sacramento doesn't go for it, I may have to post bond; if they do, I'll get plates in the mail in 4-6 weeks. Of course I've been legal the whole time and am now on my third temporary (good for one month) registration sticker. I should have declared residency in Maine on friday, got a new drivers license, registered the beast, then driven home. Then all the paperwork might have been easier. Maybe not. If you're wondering if it's all worth it, you're not a true rover addict. Of course it's all worth it. I grin like a crazy person when I come around the corner and see the narrow IIa headlights staring at me. Looks almost human. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Thu Feb 23 18:31:44 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:31:44 -0600 (CST) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: LR FAQ I would be happy to contribute my experiences with the Disco to any new FAQ. I agree, we need one. Especially one as good as the Series LRs have. Henry B. Wilson, wilsonhb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu or henben@aol.com '59 Austin Healey 100-6 '94 LR Discovery 5-speed From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 23 17:31:13 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:31:13 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Ha ha. Very Funny. I for one am glad you're taking this so well. I dunno what's gotten into this bunch lately. (Maybe cabin fever is setting in.) Anyway, I understand that one wants to know what one's getting into before one makes the jump, especially when it's a matter of a couple thousand dollars, at least. I wish I had asked as many questions as you before I bought my first Rover! In any case, I will be happy to answer questions, except that I don't know much technically. I would *think* that the other LRO's here would do the same, but perhaps they've *forgotten* what makes being a Land Rover Owner different -- the spirit of comradery that goes along with the marque. It's similar, I guess, to the discussion we had about waving to vehicles, wherein *some* folks don't wave to non-series vehicles -- I guess they just want a Land Rover to make themselves feel better than everyone else or something. As someone else said, I wave to *everybody*! So guys, maybe we can lighten up here, and make taylor feel welcome?!? Or shall we go ahead and let the rest of the Internet know that LRO's are just another bunch of rude, inhospitable, jerkoffs that treat others like crap? Consider yourselves admonished. Anyway, Taylor, I'm sure there are some series vehicle owners out your way... Can someone offer to let Taylor rummage around in his/her vehicle? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger When you own a Land Rover, sinasohn@crl.com You have friends you've never met. Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 23 17:31:36 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:31:36 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Overlands Sounds like there definitely is an interest in Overlanding, and if (when!) I get my net host set up, I'd be happy to set up a separate mail list on the subject. In the meantime, I suspect we can discuss it here. Although it's not exactly the Kalahari, my girlfriend and I did travel around western Canada last Summer in my 109". It was a lot of fun, though since she can't drive the LR, it was a lot of driving on my part. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 23 17:31:42 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:31:42 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Overland Roy said it just right... > I like the idea of swapping overland ideas and things. > Deep inside all of us Rover owners is the desire to take [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > gets to big then go to a seperate list. Just a thought. > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies Dreaming of a long, slow trip > in my Rover. Sounds good to me! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 23 17:31:20 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:31:20 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: LR Image (was: Ha ha. Very Funny.) When I bought my first Land Rover, I had spent a lot of time deciding whether or not I wanted a vehicle at all or not. (I had gone several years without one.) I finally decided that responsibilities dictated a need for a vehicle. So I determined my needs and set out to find the perfect vehicle. I needed loadspace to carry all the computer equipment my local Atari club uses at each meeting, and to carry backpacking gear to the sierras for the trips I lead for the Sierra Club. Four Wheel Drive would be nice, again for the sierras. Fuel economy was very important; I was and am consious of the waste of natural resources and the problem of pollution, and try to limit my effect on both. So I decided that a Subaru wagon, late 70's would be just about right. I've always had a thing for Subarus, and their wagons met my needs and looked sporty enough to be fun. So I bought a Land Rover. I was looking through the classifieds and saw an ad for a 1959 Land Rover with transmission problems. It was in my budget, and I figured that if I bought it, I could talk the guy down and have enough left over to get the transmission fixed. I called the guy, and he said it was parked in a lot in the Marina, and go ahead and take a look at it. I looked at it, and was instantly hooked. It took a couple more trips to think up enough justification to buy it, but I knew I had to have it from the moment I first saw it. Well, a couple months and $3000 later, it still wasn't reliable enough to take to the Sierras, and coming home from a user group meeting, I found myself on one of San Francisco's steeper hills with no brakes. Eventually, I found Scotty, dumped that 88" and bought my current 109" and never looked back. (Although I do suffer from nostalgia whenever I see a Chevy van... And I do lust after DeLoreans... But that's another story.) At the time, I had never driven off-highway, new nothing about Land Rovers other than they had something to do with Africa (I didn't even connect it to the Gods must be crazy!), and knew absolutely nothing about fixing cars or how easy a LR is to work on. But I had to have that Land Rover. In the 5 years or so since that first night in the marina parking lot, I've learned a lot about Land Rovers and their history, driven off-highway in Nevada, Utah, and Colorado, and even learned a bit about how things work under the hood. (Have to thank my brother's camaro for this too, though.) So now that I know more about them, is a Land Rover now the right vehicle for me? Well, for traveling around the country on holiday, a winnebago would be a more comfortable choice. For hauling stuff to user group meetings and backpacking trips, my sister's Subaru wagon certainly gets better gas mileage and effectively holds just as much. Even my parent's ford escort wagon (an *incredibly* badly designed/built vehicle) could do (and often does) what I need a vehicle for, with 3 times as many miles to the gallon. So, why do I own not one, but *two* Land Rovers? (and 35 different miniature ones, and keyfobs, and patches, and videos, and a "Land Rover Parking Only" sign?) Because a Land Rover is much more than a vehicle. It is truly a symbol of a way of life. Sure, the LA marketing geeks are packaging it and selling it to rich yuppies, but that doesn't make that little bit of fantasy in *my* life any less important. In fact, it brings my fantasy a little closer to reality. One of the nicest compliments I ever got, was at a christmas party for a company I've worked with off and on for nearly 8 years, both as an employee and as a consultant. Anyway, we played a game, where a piece of paper was taped to your back, with a person's name on it. You had to figure out who that person was, by asking other people yes-or-no questions. Each name was picked for each person by the gal who set it up (they were just random names.) I never did guess mine, but people kept saying "this is perfect for you" and the like. Turns out the name I had was Indiana Jones. That really meant a lot to me. And So does owning a Land Rover. Yes, somewhere, deep down, I know I'll never get to the Kalahari desert, let alone travel through all of Europe and Africa like I want, but at least owning a Land Rover lets me deal with Reality a little better. So when someone says they want a Land Rover because of their image, I can understand that, and say, yeah, me too, buddy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger When you own a Land Rover, sinasohn@crl.com You have friends you've never met. Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 23 17:31:09 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:31:09 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: children, wives and Land rovers John Hess puts his kids to work and brags about his wife... > Q. Which is better, a Land Rover sII 109", a case of good beer, or a > loving, caring, beautiful, intelligent wife? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > although you want to make sure you get a loving, caring, beautiful, > intelligent wife THAT WON'T drink the beer. Well, I'd just as soon have one that *would* drink the beer... 'member in the first Indiana Jones movie, the first shot of the girl is in the tavern somewhere in the Himalayas or something, and she's having a drinking contest with the big mongolian? Now *there's* my kind of woman! > And on a more serious note, check your local library for "Investment Biker" Thanks! Will do! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Feb 24 12:06:03 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:06:03 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Maiden Voyage/steering probs. Braman writes a lot of neat stuff then: > Steering Problems - At speed, the Rover was all over the road. > I was wondering if some sort of steering damper > might help, or if it would be worth checking the alignment. none A steering damper wont stop wandering, but will help "kick-back" on rough roads. You need to try to get rid of all the slop in the steering, worn Tie-rod ends, st. box adjustment spring shackle bushes (front and rear)etc. Check the w/align etc. You may need to play with tyre pressures as that could be part of the problem. If once you have done all of the obvious its not much better check the preload on the swivel pins. The manuals tell how. This can be quite critical in Landys and Rangies, though the symptoms are usually an irritating steering wheel shudder not fixed by wheel balance. best of luck -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Feb 24 12:14:12 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:14:12 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Roll overs Ian writes > (why do our lady-competitord not roll their vehicles? - is it > significant? - inquiring minds want to know!) none The only rolled Landy I've been involved with personally was being driven by a woman on a track in Kakadu national park. The 88 hit a big washout hidden in the shadows, jumped sideways and barrel rolled down the road. Landy was a right off. No major injuries but more luck than any thing else. Not going particularly fast, just "sh?t that happens". -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Feb 23 18:01:10 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:01:10 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Overlands Roger Sinasohn wrote: > Sounds like there definitely is an interest in Overlanding, and if (when!) > I get my net host set up, I'd be happy to set up a separate mail list on > the subject. In the meantime, I suspect we can discuss it here. I must have missed the origional post for this. I love to take road trips. The greater the off-road/pavement ratio the better. If anyone is planning one sing out. Tell me when. Tell me where. Just because I've driven from NJ to California (or vise versa) 6 times doesn't mean I'm crazy. -Benjamin Smith "Why fly when you can drive and have an adventure along the way?" ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Kefi@aol.com Thu Feb 23 22:27:22 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:27:22 -0500 From: Kefi@aol.com Subject: Looking for John Villachica Hi folks, I'm trying to contact John Villachica.When I last spoke to him he was in the Ft. Collins, CO area. I bought some LR parts from him a couple of years ago and I'd like to get in touch with him. The number on the Rovers Central flyer I have is not in service now. If anybody can help, I'd appreciate it. Now the technical part: I just reinstalled my cylinder head on my 2.25L petrol motor. Should I adjust the valves cold or hot? Also I used a composite head gasket I bought from British Pacific. How long should I wait to retorque the head? Any input would be welcome. I would also like to welcome TR to the list. It's great to see another Yankee Rover member to the list! Later, Art Patsouris '69 IIA 88 Bugeye kefi@aol.com From Kefi@aol.com Thu Feb 23 22:25:17 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:25:17 -0500 From: Kefi@aol.com Subject: Looking for John Villachica Hi folks, I'm trying to contact John Villachica. I bought some LR parts from him a couple of years ago and I'd like to get in touch with him. If anybody can help, I'd appreciate it. Now the technical part: I just reinstalled my cylinder head on my 2.25L petrol motor. Should I adjust the valves cold or hot? Also I used a composite head gasket I bought from British Pacific. How long should I wait to retorque the head? Any input would be welcome. I would also like to welcome TR to the list. It's great to see another Yankee Rover member to the list! Later, Art Patsouris '69 IIA 88 Bugeye kefi@aol.com From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 23 22:43:44 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: FAQ's compiled On 23 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > you should have seen what I went through when I ran an 88 into the > same tree twice within 2 minutes. OVLR has a whole catagory of awards for this type of thing. The pinnicle being the much honoured "Lugnut" award. Needelss to say, there is fierce competition for this award every year. :-) Rgds, From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Feb 23 21:10:07 1995 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 21:10:07 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Mabel >> One stupid question from the mechanical novice. How do you work those grease nipples?? I have a grease gun filled with lithium grease but I don't know exactly how to work the nipples. I would like to go around and fill them all. How do you know when they are full of grease? The grease should be squeezed out at all openings, ie on a u-joint the *fresh* grease should come out at all four bearing cups. Wipe off any excess. Be warned however, after driving awhile the centrifugal force etc will shoot out excess grease all over the place. >> Still waiting to scan those pics from my Wales off-road trip. Thanks to all who have shown an interest. Great, we'll look for them on your home page. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Feb 24 01:01:41 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 01:01:41 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Maiden Voyage Bramen... Congrats on another "live" one! 400 mile trip for a maiden voyage! Yow! And after putting the beastie back together yet... As to your questions... DAP (or any other aftermarket supplier).. My personal opinion is - If you need a part for your Buick, Ford, Chevy or what have you, do you go back to the dealer to buy the part or do you go to the local NAPA or National Auto? Like you said, it depends on the part. If you can get the stuff locally, go for it! Steering problems.. someone mentioned once before about wide tires causing all sorts of wierd wobbly motion. Since you had the truck apart, would it be safe to assume that you had checked out the condition of the swivel balls and track rod ends? Getting the alignment checked is certainly a starting point. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Fri Feb 24 00:34:01 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 00:34:01 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: Hello!! Well after being unable to check my e-mail for 6 day;s due to a upgarde of software damned network.:( I'm now back on line..:) So I'd like to state that to anyone whon sent me any responses for my for sale ad please resend it now..:) Both the trailer is still up for grabs at $350.00 neg. and also my love..'73-S3 88..:( for a small change..$8500.00 neg. so please don't hesitate in calling on me don't hesitate in calling me..:) (206)365-3514 HM# Sincerely, Benjamin J. Freeman I really want to get my RHD fix satisfied..:) From Mark Perry Fri Feb 24 03:54:18 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 03:54:18 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: Overlanding Since there seems to be an interest in overlanding, by which I take to mean, long distance treks, I am so bold to admit I've been planning a ramble in my '66 Ser.IIA 88 from Winnipeg to Inuvik (and return) for this August. I got the lunatic notion while reading books on South African and Western Canadian pre-settlement history.The route I have planned would head north by northwest through Sask. via Batoche, Alta. to Dawson Creek, the Alcan to Watson Lake, Campbell Hwy.to Dawson Creek, Dempster Hwy. north across Arctic Circle to Inuvik. Return trip to Dawson, then Top of World Hwy, via Chicken, Alaska, then back down Alcan to Watson Lake, Cassiar Hwy south through B.C. then connect to Yellowhead Hwy 16 all the way back to Wpg. I see from the faq's that TerriAnn Wakeman recommends a spare water pump inter alia. I've also been studying L-R's Working in the Wild. My girlfriend has already begged off, so this will be a solo trip. Am I mad? Has anyone else made this jaunt? It's mostly highway, about 1/3 gravelled. I've calculated 10,000 km, at 80 km-h, averaging 4-6 hours a day, total driving time 125 hrs or thereabouts, and have allowed a month do to it, and figure at least 1,800-2,000 L of fuel. Now you know why I'm keen to get my overdrive healthier. Any opinions (apart from stay home, you idiot)? Mark Perry Winnipeg Manitoba Canada rxq281@winnie.freenet.mb.ca From Spenny@aol.com Fri Feb 24 06:41:12 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 06:41:12 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: LRO vs. LRW I have just today recieved my Feb LRO. Last week an friend and went into the new Super Barnes & Noble and they were selling LRW for $6, so I bought a copy. It seemed more series oriented than LRO, which i liked, but there is only 1 mention of any american club, where in LRO there was an entire spread on Sandy's ROAV Rally. If LRO has gone up to over 60 pounds a year, I may have to switch. BTW, what ever happened to the Land Rover joke book? Is it still making the rounds? Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "Eric Desmond (III)" Fri Feb 24 12:00:24 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:00:24 GMT From: "Eric Desmond (III)" Subject: LRW v LRO It is a shame that LRO has gone up so much in the states. Although LRW is cheaper in the Uk too, I still think LRO is better with more world club coverage and exclusives. Maybee thais because it has been around for so long though. Eric From "Eric Desmond (III)" Fri Feb 24 12:05:23 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:05:23 GMT From: "Eric Desmond (III)" Subject: LRO Although LRO is more expensive than LRW I still think LRO is a better buy. It seems to have more exclusives and special interest articles. Don't flame me for this! Eric From William Dan Terry Fri Feb 24 09:00:51 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 09:00:51 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: water leaks Andrew, I have a similar philosophy as your PO. The difference is that my goop of choice is silicone caulk. It sticks well, easy to apply with caulk gun and finger, remains pliable in extreme temps for 50 years (which is important as the LR body flexes), and is removable. I've caulked all the static window glass, the roof and side panels, holes in the floor and bulkhead, metal joints like the seat boxes and stowage boxes, around bolts coming into the cabin, around wires going through holes fore and aft (also protects the wires from getting scraped by the metal hole (like a gromet)), the windscreen assembly... I'm a hardtop person, but if I need to take it off someday I know I can with either a little extra pull or a razor blade. Simple, cheap (a lot cheaper than new roof seals for a full-time hard top), hardy and waterproof. Peace, Bill _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 24 09:39:10 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 09:39:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Overlanding See if any friends with Land Rovers out there have any old issues of the ALROC Transfer Box, or OVLR newsletters. They would have articles on the 1992 TransCanada/Alaska trip that a number of LAnd Rover did. Halifax to somewhere in Alaska. There was a list of requirements for all the vehicles et cetera there... I very nearly did the run you are talking about. (My brother was working in Inuvik at the time, now he is working in southern Alaska) Cancelled at the end because I am in Ottawa and I wanted to start from some large western city, preferably Edmonton, and drive from there. The Land Rover was to be railed from Ottawa to the starting point. However, the railways wanted usurous amounts of cash to move the 109 from here to there and in the end it just wasn't worth it. My brother has driven the route several times, videotaping portions and the iinteresting bits. Quite a place. The most interesting footage from Inuvik must be the ice road up the MacKenzie River in the middle of the winter. The ice is black, and when the camera panned down you could see the cracks extending some ten feet into the ice. From Sanna@aol.com Fri Feb 24 10:02:36 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 10:02:36 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Overlanding Talk to Tim at Doug Shipman's in Portland, OR. He's a top LR mechanic who does this as a commute. 400k on his 109. Call info for Doug's number at Ship's Mechanical, Portland. From Spenny@aol.com Fri Feb 24 11:19:26 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:19:26 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: info please Seymour, Gareth - Technician, asks, Also, what is the proper name for "camel yellow" or the code for a shade very close to it. Gareth... the color is called SandGlow, it is also a old Jaguar color A friend of mine just painted his SIIA rover this color, i dont know the paint code, but i found these colors/numbers in the paint FAQ: Sand ACF/004 or 26291 Almond yellow 38521 Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 24 08:49:53 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 08:49:53 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Overland In message <199502240131.AA26920@crl2.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > Roy said it just right... > > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies Dreaming of a long, slow trip > > in my Rover. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California At this time I would be EXTREAMLY HAPPY to take even a short trip in my Land Rover. In a week and a half she will have been sitting at Scottys for 1/2 year waiting for him to get around to fixing her. She's still on her way home from the Portland All British Field meet on Labour day weekend. Her engine was suffering from a certain Land Rover owner pouring dirt down the crankcase and the transmission from a snaped lay shaft at the CA/OR boarder. The transmission rebuild was finished within a month. Up 'till this point, about 2 weeks is the longest I had ever gone without seeing my 109 since I purchased her in '78. Since my dog doesn't fit into the MGBGT, he hasn't been off the property for a half year. Just as bad, I do not have garbage collection where I live. I normally wait until I have a Land Rover load and take it to the local dump. Sigh, she just sits there with her bonnet ajar, radiator removed, front interior removed, a coating of dust covering everything inside. Showing on her passanger side, the Portland all British field meet window card, dust covered and drooping. Her back is strewn with front interior parts and some camping gear from the Portland trip. In the back are a couple of rib bones, leftover from the Sat evening field meet banquet. Ones my Great Pyrenese, Bear, had not had a chance to devour. She looks very sad and unloved. Sometimes I suspect Scotty hasn't gotten around to finishing off the engine because I have made the 80 plus mile trek each way to visit a lot more often since The Green Rover has been there. Sometimes I miss my 109 so much I could just scream sigh TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 24 09:16:44 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 09:16:44 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: water leaks In message William Dan Terry writes: > Andrew, > I have a similar philosophy as your PO. The difference is that my [ truncated by lro-digester (was 41 lines)] > shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton > _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ > W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y What so it hasn't occured to anyone to renew the seal between the top and the front of the windscreen? Also what water drip on the feet while you're driving in the rain? If its from the scuttle vents, just renew the seals. I did mine a few years back. It was easy. If its water flowing down the bulkhead and seeping between the pedal boxes & the bulkhead, those were sealed from the factory. You can take a couple of hours out, remove the mounting bolts raise them up, remove the old seal material & reseal them. There are seals between the top and sides and the sides and body. They work when they are in good condition and they are easy to replace if they are not. By the way, you can also purchase gromets to protect wires going through bulkheads. Sometimes it might even be easier to do a proper repair or maintenence as it does to do a bodge job. Do you want to be known as "THE dreaded previous owner" some time in the future? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Fri Feb 24 10:39:24 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 10:39:24 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: LRO vs. LRW But on the other side, LRO is twice the size of LRW. John Brabyn 89RR From C Taylor Sutherland III Fri Feb 24 13:48:10 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:48:10 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: As real as real... Yes, I'm real for those of you who haven't figured it out yet, and Dixon's not all that bad, as long as you show that you have the slightest level of intelligence. So people are actually calling Leslie about left handed cranks. Sheesh. Maybe the humor should stay here all the time, that way people will get used to and not be thoroughly confused by the continuous onslaught. Anyway, I wouldn't mind a compiled list of the latest questions that I forgot to ask. Should keep me laughing for quite some time. Thanks for making my first couple of weeks as a serious member of this mailing list group at least an interesting one. I really never noticed (except on few occasions) that any of the poking fun was personal so don't worry about it. I'm a big boy. :) I just want to join in the fun when I get my own... :-) SLAM! du.duu.du...du.duu.du...Let the Boys be Boys! SLAM! Sorry... C.U. Taylor (C.U. for see you and Clemson University not that it's important) From Mr Ian Stuart Fri Feb 24 14:33:40 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:33:40 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: LRO > Although LRO is more expensive than LRW I still think LRO is a better buy. > It seems to have more exclusives and special interest articles. Don't flame > me for this! Eric, you're right about the exlusives and specials - but then it *has* had more time to build up a reputation...... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 24 14:42:02 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:42:02 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Ethoxalated fuels I first noticed it about a month ago on a ski trip...the Rover seemed to lack top end gumption...not that it had any to begin with ;-> ...but the engine was working harder to maintain the same speed, kinda like driving into a headwind. Since then, I have dumped the fuel sediment bowl three times and found all kinds of black scungenous in it. A while back, one of our members said that he used ethylated fuel to skate past emissions testing, but that it would dislodge all the funk in the tank. Well, I had my tank welded last summer and re-coated at that time, so its innards are relatively clean. I usually buy one brand of gas (Shell) but get it from many stations, so it's not like one tank is pumping out junk. If your area has mandated "reformulated" petrol, I'd suggest frequent checks of the sediment bowl. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Feb 24 12:45:47 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 12:45:47 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: rolled rovers I was reading a thread the other day about rolling Land Rovers. I thought I would pass my comments. I survived two roll overs, one as a patient, one as a driver! I was a cadet on summer camp when I was injured on an assault urse. Of course I did a proper job of it and required the mo to give me the once over etc. So the 109 Ambulance was driven over and I was put on a very un comfortable military stretcher and shoved in the back of the 109. The medic got in the back with me and the other jumped in the front and drove. Well, you would have thought I only had seconds to live! This idiot drove like a maniac accross the rough ground and then pulled a hard turn. At this point gravity took over and the vehilce did an unceremonious flop onto its side. The Medic in the back was ok, He hung on as went over. Myself I was left flattend against the side in the stretcher. So much for patient care! I was a bit banged up but ok. I was removed and shoved in the back of a 109 pickup and taken to the mo. The ambulance was back in service later that day, scratched and dented a bit. The second time was on Dartmoor, providing back up for the Ten Tors walking event. Dartmoor is a beautiful area of outstanding natural beauty in the SW of England. The terrain in rock and peat bogs and moorland, lovely hills, called Tors strewn with boulders and rocks etc. Very few trees for the most part. Very few roads also. Any way, I was sent in a 109 Station Wagon to bring in some very cold and exhausted cadets from of the moor. My mate and I set off with a map in hand and a grid reference. This was the location that a helicopter had seen the cadets and told them to stay put at. The location was a ways off the track and we went cross country to pick them up. No problem. We had 15 cadets and 2 of us adults shoe horned into that vehicle. We had people lying acros others and sitting on others laps. I pointed the vehcile up the hill towards a track about a mile away and off we went. On top was their gear on the roof rack, tied on under a big cargo net. All was going fine until i noticed a gully and went half right to avoid it, big mistake # 1. We were driving through bracken so i assumed that it was ok, #2 mistake. On the left (uphill side) of the vehicle there lurked a big round top rock. The front left wheel went up onto it and it was then that gravity intervened before I could drop the clutch and roll or the rock. We went up and my side of the vehcile went down and over she went, and over we kept going until we had done a 360 roll onto our wheels again with the right side wheels on the upside of a depression. Thats what stopped us from going over a second time. During all this the engine had stalled. I asked if every one was OK, every one replied ok and I did a quick visula around the vehcile. A couple of minor dents but nothing really out of place for a military vehicle. It was getting dark so I tried the motor and she fired. We got up the hill and back into camp and I swore them to say nothing. The kids gear was a bit squashed from being on top, a few water botlles exploded etc. I parked the vehcile in between a couple of others and left it in the MT park. It was used again and again during the night by other people and was thoroughly mud covered at the end of the night. WE left early next day to go back to my unit. I never did hear anything more about it!!!! Any one else done a roll? robin craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 24 15:12:11 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:12:11 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: LRO vs. LRW On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, John Brabyn wrote: > But on the other side, LRO is twice the size of LRW. But is it worth $12 per issue at the same time? I think one of the appalling facts is that it is about 30% cheaper to buy it in the corner bookstore. I have this naive belief that subscriptions were supposed to be cheaper than buying a magazine on an issue by issue basis. From Carl Byrne Fri Feb 24 21:51:36 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 21:51:36 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Discovery 1995 300 TDI Does anybody reading this net own a diesel 1995 spec Discovery with whom I could 'compare notes'. Diesel presumably limits my request to UK residents. I own such a beast and have a few queries that another owner could possibly answer. If so, perhaps the willing party(s) could make contact with me direct via email. my email address is - Byrne@Cardiff.ac.uk Thanks in advance. 1949 Series I 1995 Discovery Dr. Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From RLZiegler@aol.com Fri Feb 24 17:45:19 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:45:19 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Head retorque, valve adjust, gre Art Patsouris asked about adjusting valves hot or cold? They can be adjusted either hot or cold to 0.010 inch for the 2.25 lt. engines. He also asked about retorquing the head after installing the new composition type head gasket. An advantage to using this new gasket is that you don't need to retorque the head as one had to do with the copper headgaskets. Grease nipples and greasing prop. shafts: Most U joints come with very short grease nipples that are hard to get a grease gun on. Back in ancient times the original U jts. on L/Rs were longer. Well over the years I have been replacing the short ones with longer ones (!" over all length) thus making it easier to attach the grease gun. These longer grease nipples should be availble at your local auto parts store. When greasing U jts. I was taught (again in ancient times) to keep pumping until new grease issues from the rubber skirts thus expelling most of the old grease. Obviously you will have to wipe off the U jt. unless you want to cover the surroundings with grease upon next movement of vehicle. When it comes to greasing the slip joints of the propellor shafts there is a difference between front and rear shafts. The rear shaft has a hole in the plate facing the U jt. that will let grease issue out of it, thus a hydraulic grease lock should not happen. When greasing this joint I pump until I see grease begin to come out this hole. The front prop shaft slip joint is different. It doesnot have the hole and therefore greasing the joint while the prop shaft is in place could result in the hydraulic lock. The prop shaft has to be detached from one end or the other, then the slip joint has to be fully collapsed, and then grease is pumped until the joint just starts to expand (on SIIIs the front prop shft. has a plug that needs to be replaced by a grease nipple). Rich '63 88 SW (in pieces) '74 88 HT daily driver From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 24 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 24 Feb 95 17:46:36 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Rolling Sorry to dissapiont you Mr Maloney but LR and Rr do roll easily. I have a pile of piccies to prove it, several of mine in fact. Amongst the more memorable occasions are on my first date with Pauline ( now my wife ) about 20 years ago my 109 finished up on it's side after a slide down a Lake district hill 2 full rolls ( fortunately I had a roll bar fitted ) in an 88 which I later drove home 75 miles towing my caravan another time my Range Rover flipped onto its roof, had to stay down whilst the roof pillars finished collapsing because they do not support the weight. Then a few dozen times falling on the side, but that does not really count. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Richard Strysniewicz Fri Feb 24 22:38:13 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 22:38:13 GMT From: Richard Strysniewicz Subject: valves and head retorquing (was err... Looking for John Villachica) >Now the technical part: I just reinstalled my cylinder head on my 2.25L >petrol motor. Should I adjust the valves cold or hot? Also I used a >composite head gasket I bought from British Pacific. How long should I wait >to retorque the head? Any input would be welcome. I have always heard to adjust them warm, as in warm the engine up then adjust the valves once things cool off enough to get in there. This has worked well for me. When I replaced my cylinder head I torqued once on assembly, drove about 10 miles then torqued again, then drove about 500 miles and torqued a final time. May sound kinda anal but it seemed to need retorquing both times. I'd rather invest 30 minutes on a couple of different occasions to retorque then end up with a blown head gasket and have to go through the head removal ritual again. While you're in there you might as well check the valves again too. Only takes a few minutes and I noticed that mine were a bit out of adjustment after the initial reassembly. And remember to loosen each bolt a half turn or so before retorquing to ensure that you get a proper torque reading. Whew - the q key really got a workout on that post :-) Richard Strysniewicz DoD 1193 AMA 661768 Petersfield, UK 1991 907ie Bellarossa From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Fri Feb 24 18:51:47 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 18:51:47 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: Overlanding On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, Mark Perry wrote: > Since there seems to be an interest in overlanding, by which I take to > mean, long distance treks, I am so bold to admit I've been planning a > ramble in my '66 Ser.IIA 88 from Winnipeg to Inuvik (and return) for this > August. snip > The route I have planned would > head north by northwest through Sask. via Batoche, Alta. to Dawson Creek, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > get my overdrive healthier. > Any opinions (apart from stay home, you idiot)? Well, actually it sounds like a lot of fun, except you need more than a month. In 1991 I took a trip from California to Fairbanks and the Kenai Peninsula, via the Alcan Highway, and returned via the Alaska Marine Highway (the Ferry to Bellingham, WA) from Haines. It took every bit of a month, and if we hadn't come back on the ferry it wouldn't have worked. And we were driving a reasonably comfortable and zippy 1984 VW Westphalia camper. Which month. It does make a difference. I recommend August, after the month of Mosquito. It was a real push to get to the BC/Yukon border in a week from here. And you will probably not average any 80 kph on the gravel roads. My suggestion would be to reduce the distance, or increase the time. One other possibility. What about driving one way and get somebody else to fly out and take their vacation driving your beast back east? Uncharacteristically, I actually spent a lot of time planning my trip. I took good maps (the Yukon, the provinces and Alaska provide good maps on request) and a calendar planner on the computer; and projected the required distances on a day by day basis. I had to do this several times, increasing the early driving distances per day until I could make the departure time from Haines. The Ferry schedule is not something one wants to slip. All told, we drove about 13,000 km, so it would be feasible to meet your schedule, but it will be a lot of driving. The Alcan is a veritable superhighway now, but it is a narrow ribbon of good road in a real wilderness, especially when it comes to getting parts for just about anything, nevermind a Land Rover. If this were MY trip (I wish) I'd consider sacking the Alcan, take the Cassair Highway going north, and take the Ferry from Haines or Skagway to Prince Rupert. It's still a long way from Prince Rupert home, but it would save a lot of driving distance and get you into the Alaska Panhandle. Ferry costs are a sensitive issue, but so is the cost of fuel. There's a lot to consider, and this is getting long. Don't get frugle with spare parts. Perhaps others can contribute a list of "must take". One last observation: I REALLY liked the Yukon. Go for it. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (Home) Davis Community Network | Davis, California | wcswain@silva.wr.usgs.gov (Work) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Feb 24 23:09:20 1995 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 23:09:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Overlanding Mark Perry plans a trip... > Since there seems to be an interest in overlanding, by which I take to > mean, long distance treks, I am so bold to admit I've been planning a > ramble in my '66 Ser.IIA 88 from Winnipeg to Inuvik (and return) for this That's one hell of a ramble... > girlfriend has already begged off, so this will be a solo trip. Am I mad? You may be by the time you get back! > Has anyone else made this jaunt? It's mostly highway, about 1/3 gravelled. .......... > Any opinions (apart from stay home, you idiot)? A few years ago there was the Trans-Canadian tour. Went across Canada, up the Alcan and back. A retired chap in the town where I live took his '71 IIa 88. He loved the trip. The only damages he had was a broken shock (which he didn't even know was broken until he got home) and a cracked windshield from a stone on the Alcan. I'd say go for it! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville From "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> 25 95 Feb EST 1904 Date: 25 Feb 95 04:06:30 EST From: "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> Subject: RHD, Gasohol, Taylor Re: RHD Long ago I had a Bultaco motorcycle, shifter on right and brake on left (opposite most bikes). Many was the un-clutched downshift going into a turn or the tap on the brake going up the hill. The AMA ruled all right-shifters out of competition in the late '70s; possible lesson there. Re: Oxygenated fuel Once the moisture is out of the lines on my Mazda p/u and wife's MGB, and a fresh fuel filter in line, they run as well -or better- than straight gasoline. Switching to premium might help if you're pushing detonation with advanced timing, but the primo has alcohol added to it, too. Re: Taylor You're '89 is **FIFTEEN** years newer than my newest (a Mercury Marquis, if you must know. It drives great, parts and insurance are cheap, and it's easy to work on). If you get a LR to drive 5 miles to school, be sure to get a bicycle because it might get you there faster than starting Rover! If replacing a trans on an S-10 is a big deal, take a gander at the repair manuals for landies--it's not so very different. Have a serious talk with yourself: do you want a vehicle that is a passion in your life, with both joys AND foibles? Why a LR? Can you list its downsides as well as its fortes? There are fanatic groups formed around many other makes as well, if you are only looking for devotion, why not them? But go ahead and ask away; besides making for great responses you will gain some insight. I'm unsubscribing for a couple weeks; back soon! Alan From JDolan2109@aol.com Sat Feb 25 09:40:43 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 09:40:43 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: parts, distributors, stories Tried once before. Another attempt. Need parts for '60 Rover P5 (3 litre Mk I, RHD). Tried Rovers West in Az. But haven't gotten anywhere for what is needed. Tie rod ends (all 6) and rear spring mountings. Do have Rover parts numbers, won't take up space now. Just need names and/or numbers of vendors and/or car vehicle owners. New preferred, but used accepted if need be. Well, not used tie rod ends. Did see mention of a British Car Digest or something. Directions? Another possibility for the rough idle. Check the gutz of your distributor. You do oil it, don't you? I have experienced the centrifugal advance weights malfunctioning in several ways. Spring mounting posts pulled out or just somehow letting spring(s) loose. They must be perpendicular and 'fixed'. Or springs just broken. Or gunk. Anyway once one of mine let the weights loose and a small internal lathe had been created. Would have cut right through the housing. Geez... look at that! Have heard of complete bisection. No repair kit for that one. Maybe this lower aspect of the advance mechanism (the centrifugal part) is faulty. The weights may not be coming out or returning properly or smoothly. This would also show up at the timing light, though not necessarily at a constant throttle (idle). It would most likely show as a faultering on uptake or returning to inconsistant points upon return to idle. A slight 'blip' of the throttle might eliminate the false return (reseating weights) and lead you to look further in this direction. If you go in, don't forget small ground wire when you come out. Check the surfaces of the points mounting plate. (only visible upon dis-assembly) Make sure this area is clean and properly lubed .Once I put the drive dog at distributor bottom on reversed. (Not involved for weights only). Easy to do. (Scribe before disassembly!!) Made phone call. Was told to just reverse the removable dog in motor. Did it. Drove it. Distributor looked like a clothes dryer with an out of balance load! Geez... look at that! Got a rough idle that time too. After a bit (well, maybe a few K miles), I corrected the mis-assembly. Shortly thereafter the 'ears' on the drive dog (at distributor) sheared off! Geez... look at that! Night of course! Luckily I had parts on board. The rear hitch does function nicely as a light duty anvil. Only about 2 hrs downtime. New parts were placed ASAP. Better than those 2 weeks in the Nevada desert in that damned Scout!!! Nearest town Denio. Only about 1 1/2 hrs once you got back on the tarmac. Population about 6. Might still be on the map. I still twitch a bit when someone else says "I know a shortcut"! Damn corn grinders! (that's International Harvester Scout for flatlanders). Now in my LR, I just relax and enjoy the scenery. It's not always the first one there, but sometimes it's the only one that makes it! Anyway please, if anyone can help with P5 parts, I can drive that when I go into the bowels of the beast later this year. My 'Road' Rover isn't happy being a Barn Rover. Oh, yeah, put us down as preferring mud to traffic. (mud season soon...) see ya' on the old road... jim '61 88" SW / weber 1 Bbl, OD & 16's LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised. From "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 25 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 25 Feb 95 10:44:57 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Backing through McD < I did it once! Stranded me for a week at a chicken ranch in Spencer, Iowa. Took care of 60,000 laying hens waiting for parts. Didn't eat eggs again for years. Swore off the Col. completely. The little counter weights cut the dist right in half. Top half dropped right out of the truck. Parts all over the road. Turned out the weights broke free because of vibrations set up by slop in a worn dist drive dog. From FHYap@aol.com Sat Feb 25 15:31:53 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 15:31:53 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Overlanding If you stay along the routes you describe, the roads are pretty good. Ju= st be careful when you try to explore the trails! I am not sure about the things you will need for your LR, but some considerations are: 1. Read the Milepost. It is the bible for traveling in Alaska, Yukon, N= WT and Northern BC. 2. Carry Jerry cans - Unless you have a very good driving range, you cou= ld run into problems along the Dempster. You have to cover about 250 miles = to get to the first gas station after you start up the Dempster. In other areas, there are a fair amount of gas stations - but be careful towards t= he end of summer as some places may already be closed (for winter?). And, i= f you drive a lot at nights, stations may not be open. 3. Carry zip-lock bags or equivalent - There will be lots of dust on the= Dempster. It will get everywhere. = 4. Wash your vehicle after you get off the Dempster (and other roads tha= t use Calcium additive for dust control -- but the mud looks so macho ..) = The calcium will eat the paint. 5. Carry clear tape - if you take any of the gravel roads/trails/highway= , there is a good chance you will crack your windshield. Clean the crack a= nd put tape over the crack to prevent dirt from getting in. I understand th= at this procedure will reduce the likelihood of the crack spreading. 6. Consider a front guard - I made a frame using 1/2=94 pvc pipe and =93= sewed=94 on a plastic mesh. Not only will it protect your radiator, as a side ben= efit it will also protect your paint job . 7. Mosquitoes can be a problem. I just tried to ignore them. Wear long= sleeves and put on windpants (over your shorts) when they get too vicious= =2E Smoke from the campfire also helps and make sure your tent has mosquito netting. Incidentally, for those who think that there are no mosquitoes around glaciers (because its too cold), you will be in for a surprise. 8. The Alaska Marine Highway is a great way to meet fellow travelers. I= f its crowded it will be hard to get a lounge chair for your bed. Take a t= ent and make sure it is seam-sealed. It will rain. The trip should be fun, especially if you like camping. You can pretty m= uch camp anywhere once you are past the main towns. Showers are available at= many fuel stations or campgrounds for a couple bucks. = Incidentally, while there are many justifiable complaints about the D110,= it did take me from Fairbanks to the SF Bay Area (over 3000 miles) in less t= han 4 days (driving solo), including a stop for some business in Prince Georg= e. From ALLISONS@central.edu Sat Feb 25 15:05:06 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 15:05:06 -0600 (CST) From: ALLISONS@central.edu Subject: introduction and thanks Hello Land Rover Owners, The information sent to new subscribers suggests that new subscribers introduce themselves. So I will do that now (briefly). I don'Õt own a Land Rover, but am very interested in acquiring a IIa or III 88. I want to own one for purely sentimental, and probably foolish, reasons. When I was a child, my father taught in Costa Rica and while we lived there we frequently used a pair of 88'Õs which were probably II or IIa models (I was only 9-10 and don'Õt remember the exact models - just knew they were Land Rovers and loved them). One was a diesel, the other gasoline powered. The diesel was far more reliable. I remember many times standing on the side of a gravel road as Dad monkeyed with the electrical system on the gasoline one. (un)Fortunately my fiance Holly is not only completely supportive of my quest, she wishes I would speed the process of finding a Land Rover because when she was a child her family owned a III 88. I was counting on her to be the voice of reason and common sense, but alas it is not to be. I am a very lucky man. Because rural Iowa is not exactly the center of the Land Rover universe, I plan to do my searching and purchasing this summer, when I will have time to travel to look at good ones. Land Rovers in the San Francisco Bay Area would be especially attractive because I have a good friend there who is an auto-nut enamored of Land Rovers who can check them for me. So if someone in the Bay Area anticipates selling an 88 this summer for a reasonable price... Also I would like to thank the people who put together your wonderfully informative FAQ files. They have been very helpful (and a good reality check). Cheers, Stuart Allison Pella, Iowa allisons@central.edu From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Sat Feb 25 13:37:36 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: Overlanding On Sat, 25 Feb 1995 FHYap@aol.com wrote: > If you stay along the routes you describe, the roads are pretty good. Just > be careful when you try to explore the trails! I am not sure about the > things you will need for your LR, but some considerations are: A lot of good points. The bit about the Marine Highway may use some expansion. There is a real subculture on board among the experienced ferry travelers. On the bigger ships (i.e. the Columbia) groups quickly form to stake out claims for sleeping territory. I was traveling with my wife and 2 daughters so we ended up with 2 women traveling with their kids. Interesting folks, too. One was a licensed fisherman (fisherwoman?) and the other a loggers wife. One can pitch a freestanding tent (like a dome tent) on the fantail, but the ship's diesel exhaust fumes tend to circulate back onto the deck. Even as a confirmed diesel owner, it was too much for me. There is ferry service to Prince Rupert from Ketchikan, I believe. The schedule information may be a bit difficult to find. And yes, it will rain. In Juneau I was amused by the defensiveness of a US Forest Service employee who maintained that Juneau's reputation as a rainy city was way overstated: "Precipitation is only 100 inches per year", she said. "There are lots of places that get more rain than that." Undoubtedly true, and many of them are close to Juneau. Anybody who drives from Fairbanks to San Francisco in less than 4 days barely has time to do anything except drive. At an average spped of 50 mph that's 16 hours of driving per day. Possible solo, but dont try it with kids. Scenery suffers, and spouses may object as well. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, California | 1967 SIIA 109 Safari petrol From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 25 18:08:13 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 18:08:13 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: introduction and thanks Contact Atlantic British 800-3532210 or Rovers North 802-879-0032. They both maintain a list of Rovers for sale. From "S. F. Yee" Sat Feb 25 15:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 15:31:41 -0800 (PST) From: "S. F. Yee" Subject: 1989 vs 1988 Range Rovers The Want Ad read: "RANGE ROVER '88 70k, blue/gray, immac. $19K." So, what are some of the differences someone getting into the used RR market should know when deciding between the much-acclaimed '89s vs '88s? Thanks! From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Sat Feb 25 16:06:05 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:06:05 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: 1989 vs 1988 Range Rovers On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, S. F. Yee wrote: > The Want Ad read: "RANGE ROVER '88 70k, blue/gray, immac. $19K." So, > what are some of the differences someone getting into the used RR market > should know when deciding between the much-acclaimed '89s vs '88s? Thanks! As an impartial observer (the famous impartiality of all Land Rover owners) and one who is thinking about getting an '88-'89 Range Rover (for my wife, of course) this strikes me as really a lot of money! It is relatively low mileage, but for that kind of money I'd expect a lot more than clean carpets, minimal dings and a respectable odometer reading. How about a 1 year full warranty? (fat chance). There should be a lot of room for bargaining. Anyway, with that off my chest, I too would be interested in a direct comparison of these vintages. There have been bits and pieces but nothing really complete. The wholesale bluebook in the western US is $12-13K, for whatever that's worth. Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, CA USA | 1967 109 IIA Safari, petrol From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Sat Feb 25 16:28:34 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:28:34 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Click and Clack on the Disco The local Public Radio station aired a Click and Clack tape this morning with a call from Mary in Vermont trying to decide between a Grand Cherokee and a Discovery (!). The subject of off-road capability never really came up, and they expressed their opinion that these are quite comparable vehicles in terms of anticipated repairs (based on the known repair record of Jeeps, and the British origin of the Discovery, with electrics by the "Prince of Darkenss" and so on). Ultimately they did note that the Discovery actually has a very special character, as opposed to the bland personality of the Jeep (same as Ford Explorer, etc) and encouraged her to get the Discovery. Then came the zinger; while on the subject of getting a Land Rover serviced or repaired, one of them said it didn't matter, they fix them on the Internet! Are these guys wired? Probably just have good information sources, but it was fun. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, CA USA | 1967 109 IIA Safari, petrol From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 25 21:22:22 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 21:22:22 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Actual sensory connections Hi guys, Well I finally got to sit see one and even sit in an old Series II. I saw (outside) a 109 Series I pickup, mechano from hell :), and the Series II 88". The 88" looked like it could make it down the road, but the body and the interior was in pretty sorry shape...not to mention the big dent in the front wing. But I did see (inside a garage, because the guy was closed!) a couple of what looked like Ser.III 109's that looked in excellent condition. I will, I believe, have to see one in restored condition before I decide to buy one I think. I may offend some Original-Or-Not-A-Rover-At-All but I think I will have to do something about those seats. :) I don't think they were the deluxe seats but they were kind of boxy, right angles and the like. Of course it wasn't put in the best light...right within sight of all those nicely painted and new tired Defender 90's. :) It might have helped if the 88's body wasn't oxidized to hell and back but it served it's purpose which was to let me sit in one and get the feel of where the pedals were. Not a bad position. It wasn't like my truck but I didn't expect that. But it wasn't as bad as the 84 Toy LC. What I did expect was that the seats to sit up higher so that you would have to reach down a bit to get to the pedals, kind of like in the Defender 90. Not so. I guess this had to do with the fact that the seats were nothing more than cushions. I did like the display though andFrom Mail Router (smail 2.8.1 dl,da,fa,tu,po,qf,dbm 04/16/92 1) 26 95 Feb EST 1903 Date: 26 Feb 95 03:58:27 EST From: Mail Router (smail 2.8.1 dl,da,fa,tu,po,qf,dbm 04/16/92 1) Subject: Returned mail Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u lznj2.LincroftNJ.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!uk.stratus.com!Land-Rover-Owner hostel gerry@hostel smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1 ----- Unsent message follows ----- From "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> 25 95 Feb EST 1904 Date: 25 Feb 95 04:06:30 EST From: "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> Subject: RHD, Gasohol, Taylor Re: RHD Long ago I had a Bultaco motorcycle, shifter on right and brake on left (opposite most bikes). Many was the un-clutched downshift going into a turn or the tap on the brake going up the hill. The AMA ruled all right-shifters out of competition in the late '70s; possible lesson there. Re: Oxygenated fuel Once the moisture is out of the lines on my Mazda p/u and wife's MGB, and a fresh fuel filter in line, they run as well -or better- than straight gasoline. Switching to premium might help if you're pushing detonation with advanced timing, but the primo has alcohol added to it, too. Re: Taylor You're '89 is **FIFTEEN** years newer than my newest (a Mercury Marquis, if you must know. It drives great, parts and insurance are cheap, and it's easy to work on). If you get a LR to drive 5 miles to school, be sure to get a bicycle because it might get you there faster than starting Rover! If replacing a trans on an S-10 is a big deal, take a gander at the repair manuals for landies--it's not so very different. Have a serious talk with yourself: do you want a vehicle that is a passion in your life, with both joys AND foibles? Why a LR? Can you list its downsides as well as its fortes? There are fanatic groups formed around many other makes as well, if you are only looking for devotion, why not them? But go ahead and ask away; besides making for great responses you will gain some insight. I'm unsubscribing for a couple weeks; back soon! Alan From JDolan2109@aol.com Sat Feb 25 09:40:43 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 09:40:43 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: parts, distributors, stories Tried once before. Another attempt. Need parts for '60 Rover P5 (3 litre Mk I, RHD). Tried Rovers West in Az. But haven't gotten anywhere for what is needed. Tie rod ends (all 6) and rear spring mountings. Do have Rover parts numbers, won't take up space now. Just need names and/or numbers of vendors and/or car vehicle owners. New preferred, but used accepted if need be. Well, not used tie rod ends. Did see mention of a British Car Digest or something. Directions? Another possibility for the rough idle. Check the gutz of your distributor. You do oil it, don't you? I have experienced the centrifugal advance weights malfunctioning in several ways. Spring mounting posts pulled out or just somehow letting spring(s) loose. They must be perpendicular and 'fixed'. Or springs just broken. Or gunk. Anyway once one of mine let the weights loose and a small internal lathe had been created. Would have cut right through the housing. Geez... look at that! Have heard of complete bisection. No repair kit for that one. Maybe this lower aspect of the advance mechanism (the centrifugal part) is faulty. The weights may not be coming out or returning properly or smoothly. This would also show up at the timing light, though not necessarily at a constant throttle (idle). It would most likely show as a faultering on uptake or returning to inconsistant points upon return to idle. A slight 'blip' of the throttle might eliminate the false return (reseating weights) and lead you to look further in this direction. If you go in, don't forget small ground wire when you come out. Check the surfaces of the points mounting plate. (only visible upon dis-assembly) Make sure this area is clean and properly lubed .Once I put the drive dog at distributor bottom on reversed. (Not involved for weights only). Easy to do. (Scribe before disassembly!!) Made phone call. Was told to just reverse the removable dog in motor. Did it. Drove it. Distributor looked like a clothes dryer with an out of balance load! Geez... look at that! Got a rough idle that time too. After a bit (well, maybe a few K miles), I corrected the mis-assembly. Shortly thereafter the 'ears' on the drive dog (at distributor) sheared off! Geez... look at that! Night of course! Luckily I had parts on board. The rear hitch does function nicely as a light duty anvil. Only about 2 hrs downtime. New parts were placed ASAP. Better than those 2 weeks in the Nevada desert in that damned Scout!!! Nearest town Denio. Only about 1 1/2 hrs once you got back on the tarmac. Population about 6. Might still be on the map. I still twitch a bit when someone else says "I know a shortcut"! Damn corn grinders! (that's International Harvester Scout for flatlanders). Now in my LR, I just relax and enjoy the scenery. It's not always the first one there, but sometimes it's the only one that makes it! Anyway please, if anyone can help with P5 parts, I can drive that when I go into the bowels of the beast later this year. My 'Road' Rover isn't happy being a Barn Rover. Oh, yeah, put us down as preferring mud to traffic. (mud season soon...) see ya' on the old road... jim '61 88" SW / weber 1 Bbl, OD & 16's LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised. From "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 25 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 25 Feb 95 10:44:57 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Backing through McD < I did it once! Stranded me for a week at a chicken ranch in Spencer, Iowa. Took care of 60,000 laying hens waiting for parts. Didn't eat eggs again for years. Swore off the Col. completely. The little counter weights cut the dist right in half. Top half dropped right out of the truck. Parts all over the road. Turned out the weights broke free because of vibrations set up by slop in a worn dist drive dog. From FHYap@aol.com Sat Feb 25 15:31:53 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 15:31:53 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Overlanding If you stay along the routes you describe, the roads are pretty good. Ju= st be careful when you try to explore the trails! I am not sure about the things you will need for your LR, but some considerations are: 1. Read the Milepost. It is the bible for traveling in Alaska, Yukon, N= WT and Northern BC. 2. Carry Jerry cans - Unless you have a very good driving range, you cou= ld run into problems along the Dempster. You have to cover about 250 miles = to get to the first gas station after you start up the Dempster. In other areas, there are a fair amount of gas stations - but be careful towards t= he end of summer as some places may already be closed (for winter?). And, i= f you drive a lot at nights, stations may not be open. 3. Carry zip-lock bags or equivalent - There will be lots of dust on the= Dempster. It will get everywhere. = 4. Wash your vehicle after you get off the Dempster (and other roads tha= t use Calcium additive for dust control -- but the mud looks so macho ..) = The calcium will eat the paint. 5. Carry clear tape - if you take any of the gravel roads/trails/highway= , there is a good chance you will crack your windshield. Clean the crack a= nd put tape over the crack to prevent dirt from getting in. I understand th= at this procedure will reduce the likelihood of the crack spreading. 6. Consider a front guard - I made a frame using 1/2=94 pvc pipe and =93= sewed=94 on a plastic mesh. Not only will it protect your radiator, as a side ben= efit it will also protect your paint job . 7. Mosquitoes can be a problem. I just tried to ignore them. Wear long= sleeves and put on windpants (over your shorts) when they get too vicious= =2E Smoke from the campfire also helps and make sure your tent has mosquito netting. Incidentally, for those who think that there are no mosquitoes around glaciers (because its too cold), you will be in for a surprise. 8. The Alaska Marine Highway is a great way to meet fellow travelers. I= f its crowded it will be hard to get a lounge chair for your bed. Take a t= ent and make sure it is seam-sealed. It will rain. The trip should be fun, especially if you like camping. You can pretty m= uch camp anywhere once you are past the main towns. Showers are available at= many fuel stations or campgrounds for a couple bucks. = Incidentally, while there are many justifiable complaints about the D110,= it did take me from Fairbanks to the SF Bay Area (over 3000 miles) in less t= han 4 days (driving solo), including a stop for some business in Prince Georg= e. From ALLISONS@central.edu Sat Feb 25 15:05:06 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 15:05:06 -0600 (CST) From: ALLISONS@central.edu Subject: introduction and thanks Hello Land Rover Owners, The information sent to new subscribers suggests that new subscribers introduce themselves. So I will do that now (briefly). I don'Ut own a Land Rover, but am very interested in acquiring a IIa or III 88. I want to own one for purely sentimental, and probably foolish, reasons. When I was a child, my father taught in Costa Rica and while we lived there we frequently used a pair of 88'Us which were probably II or IIa models (I was only 9-10 and don'Ut remember the exact models - just knew they were Land Rovers and loved them). One was a diesel, the other gasoline powered. The diesel was far more reliable. I remember many times standing on the side of a gravel road as Dad monkeyed with the electrical system on the gasoline one. (un)Fortunately my fiance Holly is not only completely supportive of my quest, she wishes I would speed the process of finding a Land Rover because when she was a child her family owned a III 88. I was counting on her to be the voice of reason and common sense, but alas it is not to be. I am a very lucky man. Because rural Iowa is not exactly the center of the Land Rover universe, I plan to do my searching and purchasing this summer, when I will have time to travel to look at good ones. Land Rovers in the San Francisco Bay Area would be especially attractive because I have a good friend there who is an auto-nut enamored of Land Rovers who can check them for me. So if someone in the Bay Area anticipates selling an 88 this summer for a reasonable price... Also I would like to thank the people who put together your wonderfully informative FAQ files. They have been very helpful (and a good reality check). Cheers, Stuart Allison Pella, Iowa allisons@central.edu From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Sat Feb 25 13:37:36 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: Overlanding On Sat, 25 Feb 1995 FHYap@aol.com wrote: > If you stay along the routes you describe, the roads are pretty good. Just > be careful when you try to explore the trails! I am not sure about the > things you will need for your LR, but some considerations are: A lot of good points. The bit about the Marine Highway may use some expansion. There is a real subculture on board among the experienced ferry travelers. On the bigger ships (i.e. the Columbia) groups quickly form to stake out claims for sleeping territory. I was traveling with my wife and 2 daughters so we ended up with 2 women traveling with their kids. Interesting folks, too. One was a licensed fisherman (fisherwoman?) and the other a loggers wife. One can pitch a freestanding tent (like a dome tent) on the fantail, but the ship's diesel exhaust fumes tend to circulate back onto the deck. Even as a confirmed diesel owner, it was too much for me. There is ferry service to Prince Rupert from Ketchikan, I believe. The schedule information may be a bit difficult to find. And yes, it will rain. In Juneau I was amused by the defensiveness of a US Forest Service employee who maintained that Juneau's reputation as a rainy city was way overstated: "Precipitation is only 100 inches per year", she said. "There are lots of places that get more rain than that." Undoubtedly true, and many of them are close to Juneau. Anybody who drives from Fairbanks to San Francisco in less than 4 days barely has time to do anything except drive. At an average spped of 50 mph that's 16 hours of driving per day. Possible solo, but dont try it with kids. Scenery suffers, and spouses may object as well. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, California | 1967 SIIA 109 Safari petrol From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 25 18:08:13 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 18:08:13 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: introduction and thanks Contact Atlantic British 800-3532210 or Rovers North 802-879-0032. They both maintain a list of Rovers for sale. From "S. F. Yee" Sat Feb 25 15:31:41 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 15:31:41 -0800 (PST) From: "S. F. Yee" Subject: 1989 vs 1988 Range Rovers The Want Ad read: "RANGE ROVER '88 70k, blue/gray, immac. $19K." So, what are some of the differences someone getting into the used RR market should know when deciding between the much-acclaimed '89s vs '88s? Thanks! From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Sat Feb 25 16:06:05 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:06:05 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: 1989 vs 1988 Range Rovers On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, S. F. Yee wrote: > The Want Ad read: "RANGE ROVER '88 70k, blue/gray, immac. $19K." So, > what are some of the differences someone getting into the used RR market > should know when deciding between the much-acclaimed '89s vs '88s? Thanks! As an impartial observer (the famous impartiality of all Land Rover owners) and one who is thinking about getting an '88-'89 Range Rover (for my wife, of course) this strikes me as really a lot of money! It is relatively low mileage, but for that kind of money I'd expect a lot more than clean carpets, minimal dings and a respectable odometer reading. How about a 1 year full warranty? (fat chance). There should be a lot of room for bargaining. Anyway, with that off my chest, I too would be interested in a direct comparison of these vintages. There have been bits and pieces but nothing really complete. The wholesale bluebook in the western US is $12-13K, for whatever that's worth. Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, CA USA | 1967 109 IIA Safari, petrol From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Sat Feb 25 16:28:34 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:28:34 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Click and Clack on the Disco The local Public Radio station aired a Click and Clack tape this morning with a call from Mary in Vermont trying to decide between a Grand Cherokee and a Discovery (!). The subject of off-road capability never really came up, and they expressed their opinion that these are quite comparable vehicles in terms of anticipated repairs (based on the known repair record of Jeeps, and the British origin of the Discovery, with electrics by the "Prince of Darkenss" and so on). Ultimately they did note that the Discovery actually has a very special character, as opposed to the bland personality of the Jeep (same as Ford Explorer, etc) and encouraged her to get the Discovery. Then came the zinger; while on the subject of getting a Land Rover serviced or repaired, one of them said it didn't matter, they fix them on the Internet! Are these guys wired? Probably just have good information sources, but it was fun. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, CA USA | 1967 109 IIA Safari, petrol From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 25 21:22:22 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 21:22:22 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Actual sensory connections Hi guys, Well I finally got to sit see one and even sit in an old Series II. I saw (outside) a 109 Series I pickup, mechano from hell :), and the Series II 88". The 88" looked like it could make it down the road, but the body and the interior was in pretty sorry shape...not to mention the big dent in the front wing. But I did see (inside a garage, because the guy was closed!) a couple of what looked like Ser.III 109's that looked in excellent condition. I will, I believe, have to see one in restored condition before I decide to buy one I think. I may offend some Original-Or-Not-A-Rover-At-All but I think I will have to do something about those seats. :) I don't think they were the deluxe seats but they were kind of boxy, right angles and the like. Of course it wasn't put in the best light...right within sight of all those nicely painted and new tired Defender 90's. :) It might have helped if the 88's body wasn't oxidized to hell and back but it served it's purpose which was to let me sit in one and get the feel of where the pedals were. Not a bad position. It wasn't like my truck but I didn't expect that. But it wasn't as bad as the 84 Toy LC. What I did expect was that the seats to sit up higher so that you would have to reach down a bit to get to the pedals, kind of like in the Defender 90. Not so. I guess this had to do with the fact that the seats were nothing more than cushions. I did like the display though and the metal dash. I don't think I'll want a hard top because I don't like the look of them, or at least none of the ones I saw. But then again, the ones I saw were in horrible shape. I can stand bashed up and ugly, as long as I'm the one who did it. :) Now all I have to do is DRIVE one. I think I'll drive the ones that are up in Waynesville, if I can get a chance. They look to be in pretty good restored shape. Question, what's the difference in the leg room in a 109 and an 88 for the driver? Oh yeah, those back bench seats are interesting. You pretty much have to prop your feet against the opposite one to stay in them, pretty wild. :) All in all, I'm still looking forward to getting one, just one that starts off in good shape. :) Back with with a road test when I get around to it. Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 25 21:52:28 1995 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 21:52:28 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Height Question Question, With 16" tires, do the Series II's or III's sit up at a comparable height to the Defender 90's? While I'm wasting bandwidth. Is it or is it not true that, with a good tranny, you have to pause in neutral between shifts in a Series III? Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Feb 26 11:25:32 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 11:25:32 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: Overlanding >5. Carry clear tape - if you take any of the gravel roads/trails/highway, >there is a good chance you will crack your windshield. Clean the crack and >put tape over the crack to prevent dirt from getting in. I understand that >this procedure will reduce the likelihood of the crack spreading. It is probably also useful to keep it dry. As I recall, one of the tricks in cutting glass tube and rod was to wet the scribe mark before snapping it, I can't recall the physical principles behind it, but it makes for a clean break, something having it to do with starting it easier. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Feb 26 11:25:59 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 11:25:59 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: '94 LR Discovery offered >For sale: 1994 Land Rover Discovery. Black, fully loaded. Includes >leather seats, seating for 7, automatic, dual sun roofs, dual air >conditioning, pin stripes, tinted windows, rino bars, light guards. >(Every factory option.) 13000 miles >Asking price only $35,000 (US) OR BEST OFFER. This particular vehicle >retailed for almost $42,000 with tax and license. [bunsen burner on] Sounds like you went OTT and want someone else to get soaked for it. Come on, you eat the tax, and the next buyer ends up paying their state tax, just like you. Well, if it's been on the road for a year, I certainly hope you've liscenced it (it's a running cost, eh ?) [burner off] You drove it off the lot, and that's good for 20% loss in the stateside market - face it, there isn't a shortage of them _now_ I don't know all the current option prices, but even if you paid as little as 5% sales tax, then you bought a $40K vehicle. I don't know how much you paid for dealer installed options (ala pin-striping), but even $10K in options on a $30K base vehicle seems a bit much. You drove it for a year, and put the average mileage on it, that means best bet, it should be worth $32K, [maybe less] and trade-in at your rover dealer might just get you the same montly payments (for as long) if you went for a stripped one, or maybe a small contribution for a stripped D90. And that is if they're very, very nice to you... (Sounds like you're well in the bucket... Especially if you _really_ paid the MSRP for it.) Now, you've been reading this list for a while, and you must realise that most of the LROs are a rather frugal bunch, paying air freight companies hard earned dollars instead of lining the pockets of RN, AB, or DAP. >From new, knowing that the dealer cut is 10% on the base and 15% or better on the dealer installed (or not) accessories, the crafty buyer shouldn't even be having tea with a sales geek unless you're starting out negotiations with them offering about $35K for their $40K MSRP vehicle... ------------------- side bar -------------------- Of course, when I bought that '87 Mustang GT new, I ended up going to near every Ford Dealer within I-495. Mind you that was the first year of that face lift, and they were near unobtainable. Every dealer that had one on the lot was asking $1000 more than MSRP (they call that ADM (additional dealer markup - good old american law of supply, demand, and price gouging), some were tagging up to $3500 price onto the cars on the lot (or not on the lot even !). From this: Bill's first law of automobile dealers: The bigger the ad in the Boston Globe, the further away you should stay from them. Exactly two of them would even talk to me about discounts. One was real and offered to split the difference (cost/msrp) and they were on the level (Galen Ford, Watertown). The other one was push and shove, and ended up near the same figure, but they had _much_ more volume. [In a limited quantity market, volume dealers get the cars (move the econoboxes and the low-end cars, and you get the 'cherry' cars).] And yes, I did read 'How not to get taken every time' before car shopping... ------------------- end side bar -------------------- >but I've come to my senses somewhat on the price You sure the sun isn't getting to you? those all black cars with lots of glass get _real_ hot (at least my '87 'stang with T-roofs was a real cooker) :-) However, if you can hold onto it for 20 or 25 years, you can probably get all your money back (not accounting for inflation). (Heck, by then, Dixon might even think it's all an all right Rover, compared to the new ones then...) :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Feb 26 11:25:40 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 11:25:40 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: anorak Spenny asks: >I give, what is an anorak, besides a pullover jacket? Exactly, an anorak _is_ a pull over jacket. And being here in the ever so fashionable part of the world - you are what you wear, thus if you wear an anorak, you _are_ an anorak. Next, you have to ask, what group of people would be most likely to wear anoraks ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Now we'll leave you non-uk types to figure out the answer given the following clue... A current advertisement on the non-Beeb channels is from Tetley (properly pronounced with a Lancs. or Yorks. accent). This advetisement is set in woods, these gents out for a walk encounter a marvel of the 19th century, a train, they brag about the benefits of the industrial age - namely their product in cans (no, it isn't an ad for tea). The humourous note at the end is that with these marvels of they industrial age, the down side is that they created the this group of people also known as anoraks. [Probably 'cause they are likely to be found persuing their favorite activity whilst wearing anoraks.] Hence, it then follows that anyone who goes OTT (over the top) in their favorite hobby is an anorak. [However, there are lots of jokes about Land Rover Owners and wearing wellies.] Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Feb 26 12:18:11 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 12:18:11 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: Click and Clack on the Disco Re: message from Walt Swain: >Then came the zinger; while on the subject of getting a Land Rover >serviced or repaired, one of them said it didn't matter, they fix them on >the Internet! Are these guys wired? Probably just have good information >sources, but it was fun. They are both MIT grads from what I understand, so it wouldn't surprise me, after all, you know Boston is the 'Hub of the Universe'.... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Roger Sinasohn Sun Feb 26 08:30:45 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 08:30:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown I seem to have goofed up with the address, first time I sent this... These two places are listed in the latest Aluminum Workhorse as doing service on Land Rovers... They must have at least one customer with a Rover, and perhaps you could look at their's? Auto Service & Body Boone, NC 704-264-6660 Harrell Motor Sales Waynesville, NC 704-456-8603 Maybe someone who hasn't lost the issue with the Membership roster could look up some LRO's in NC? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Sun Feb 26 08:30:37 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 08:30:37 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Overlanding Sounds like a fantastic trip! (A wee bit cold, though, perhaps.) I assume you're going to do it when it's summer up there? (In which case, you won't have to worry about bringing spare headlamps!) When are you planning on going? I'm sure you could, if you wanted, find another LRO to go with you. That's one of the worries I have about my dream trip (Top of Europe to the bottom of africa and back) -- I'm not sure I want to do it by myself, but I'm not sure I want to go with someone else and have to worry about what they want/don't want to do/see. (Yes, I'm a self-centered, egotistical son-of-a-bitch.) Any thoughts about this? It would be quite nice, I think, to have two pretty much identical vehicles, just in case one has serious trouble in the middle of nowhere. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Sun Feb 26 08:30:34 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 08:30:34 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Roast Roast Roast.... Turkey anyone > Hey you guys, cut it out. Today I had a call on the answering machine > for left handed starting handles, no kidding. You had me laughing so hard, I woke up my girlfriend! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Sanna@aol.com Sun Feb 26 10:37:00 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 10:37:00 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Actual sensory connections Sun Feb 26 13:07:46 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 13:07:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: '94 LR Discovery offered On Sun, 26 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > However, if you can hold onto it for 20 or 25 years, you can probably get > all your money back (not accounting for inflation). (Heck, by then, Dixon > might even think it's all an all right Rover, compared to the new ones > then...) > :-) Well, there is that Land Rover rumoured project "Odin" to consider. A mono-type body, probably with sub-frames in the best tradition of the Austin Mini, about the size of a big Suzuki... When this thing emerges, D90's will seem rather proper... (maybe, we don't bend that easily... Still want to see one in the mud ahead acting as a winch anchor to get the big green beastie through the mire...) :-) Rgds, PS I do not the '87 Rangies are down to about US$12k wholesale. In a couple o years when the Saab begins to show its age... From Dixon Kenner Sun Feb 26 13:10:34 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 13:10:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: anorak On Sun, 26 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > Hence, it then follows that anyone who goes OTT (over the top) in their > favorite hobby is an anorak. [However, there are lots of jokes about > Land Rover Owners and wearing wellies.] Wellies keep the feet dry when trying to sneak up on the sheep driving throught hat deep pond. Once there they also serve another purpose... Rgds, PS. Any adds about cow tipping over there? :-) From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Sun Feb 26 14:31:15 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 14:31:15 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Overlanding Hi Mark, It sounds like a great trip. If I had the dough I would plan on meeting you in Winnipeg and going with you. We drove from western Quebec to Lake Louise, Alberta last summer in our Rover, and did about 6000 miles in about a month. It was a great trip and we would like to plan another trip out west but going further north this time. I would second the suggestion to take an extra water pump, as the only problem we experienced was the water pump started to leak about a day from home. We just kept adding a bit of water every now and then, and got home no problem! Good preparation is very important, I had literally gone over the Rover from one end to the other and checked everything before the trip. I checked all the fluid levels twice during the trip but they were fine. We spent most of our time on secondary roads and avoided the Trans Canada, more FUN that way if your driving a Rover. I can give you more info on what spares we took, if you want to contact me directly so as not to clog up the digest! Make your plans, check your Rover, and go for it! Cheers Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse.net - currently under restoration From llevitt@idcresearch.com Sun Feb 26 14:53:12 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 14:53:12 EST From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Subject: Used Range Rover Wanted, New England Area Okay folks, I'm thinking of taking the plunge and becoming a genuine Rover owner. Since for a while it will be my wife's primary mode of transportation (yes, and she promises to wave to you Series II folks on the road, even John Hong), I'm looking for something in an older Range Rover...although there is a '61 88 stationwagon for sale in Boston...Hmmm... Anyway, I've got less than ten grand to spend, so I'm pretty much stuck with early cars -- '87 or thereabouts. Anyone know of an inexpensive Rangie available in the New England area? Thanks in advance, Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Feb 26 21:46:08 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 21:46:08 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: II vs III gearboxes... >the durability of the S.III trannys. I have heard that they are much weaker even if the gears are a bit thinner to fit in the synchros, they're still strong enough for a 2.25 -- I haven't heard of any major gear failures - most of it is still going to be due to the user factor... (And I'm sure _somebody_ will come with with the catostrophic failure of an SIII gear box in response to the above statement...) >. But I have also heard that >you must pause in each gear before engaging the next one...on a S.III...to >keep it from destroying itself. that's pretty much true of any 10+ year old gear box with well-used (read worn) synchros Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Craig Murray Mon Feb 27 8:49:17 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 8:49:17 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Taylor's got more Qs, we've got more As > PS. Taylor, you're brought more fun to the list than it's had in months. If > you don't buy a Rover we'll all be really dissapointed. Then you'll have a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > this list who's ever rolled a Land Rover. ;-D > -------------------- I know of one person that has rolled a Land Rover, my sister. "Remember when going down hills don't touch the brakes!!!!!!!" -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sun Feb 26 16:52:03 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 16:52:03 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Series III question(s) Hi there, (oh god, he's changed his mind again...) :) Series III owners out there, let me know what you think of your all-synch gear boxes...how strong they are...how easily the "synch"...how well they perform off road...and their maintenance schedule. Thanks. I may be changing my mind from a IIa to a III. Although the IIa is more formidable off road, I think as a daily driver/offroad truck instead of an offroad/daily driver truck (notice the priority) I may in fact, as many of you have suggested, be better off with a III...NOT a BUICK, but a Series III. :) I think that question was safe, but just in case, I'll put on my flame- retardant underwear. :) Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Sun Feb 26 18:03:35 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 18:03:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: anorak So what exactly is wrong with wearing an anorak?:) steve swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu On Sun, 26 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > Spenny asks: > >I give, what is an anorak, besides a pullover jacket? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 40 lines)] > |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." > 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From "benjamin g. newman" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 26 95 Feb EST 1913 Date: 26 Feb 95 13:46:19 EST From: "benjamin g. newman" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Returned mail: User unknown id RAA15352; Sat, 25 Feb 1995 17:07:58 -0500 From "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 26 95 Feb EST 1915 Date: 26 Feb 95 15:56:06 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: legroom is same >> Taylor Writes: >> Question, what's the difference in the leg room in a 109 and an 88 for >> the driver? Answer... no difference. An 88 and a 109 are identical from the back of the driver seats (where there is a bulkhead) forward. Cheers, R. P. Reid From "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 26 95 Feb EST 1916 Date: 26 Feb 95 16:01:28 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid, OH" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: More from Taylor Taylor writes: >> With 16" tires, do the Series II's or III's sit up at a comparable >> height to the Defender 90's? First, you mean the 7.5 x 16 wheels (not the 6.5 x 16 wheels). That said, it depends on the tires. With the skinny Michelins (OEM-type) the IIa sits a little lower than a Defender. With a full-size-set of British Military Michelins (which my dad's 88 has on them) it's about the same height, give or take an inch. My 88 has added suspension lifts and skinny Michelins on 7.5 x 16 wheels. Defender has about 2" on me. >> While I'm wasting bandwidth. Is it or is it not true that, with a good >> tranny, you have to pause in neutral between shifts in a Series III? You'll never be able to speed shift a Land Rover, but you should not need to actually pause in a smooth shift on a Ser III. You have to double-clutch IIa's, however. Cheers, RPR From Richard Strysniewicz Mon Feb 27 00:39:27 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 00:39:27 GMT From: Richard Strysniewicz Subject: Height Question >While I'm wasting bandwidth. Is it or is it not true that, with a good tranny, > you have to pause in neutral between shifts in a Series III? Not true. My SIII tranny most likely falls into the "sorta good" category and I do not have to pause at all. Sometimes when attempting to shift too fast I will beat the synchos and get a crunch but that happens in maybe 1 out of 500 shifts. Richard Strysniewicz DoD 1193 AMA 661768 Petersfield, UK 1991 907ie Bellarossa From ac443@osfn.rhilinet.gov (John Karlsson) Sun Feb 26 20:13:08 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 20:13:08 -0500 From: ac443@osfn.rhilinet.gov (John Karlsson) Subject: Hello Well, I guess I've been lurking here long enough. Time to come out of the garage. After many years of procrastination, I am now undertaking the restoration of my 1966 SIIA 88. About fifteen years ago I acquired a decent frame, and it has been sitting out by the barn awaiting the fateful day. In the last few weeks, something came over me, and I started to disassemble Art, my Land Rover since about 1970, and the 67 88 parts car I bought for $75 about 1983. Now I have a barn full of parts, and the chassis of choice has had the rotted rear crossmember cut away and is awaiting the attachment of the new crossmember, which I bought about ten years ago in anticipation. Now that I'm out of the garage, I'll start asking questions. 1. I've heard about Waxoyl for years. Unfortunately, I've misplaced the address for Moss Motors, where I am told one can purchase Waxoyl. If someone could provide same, I would be most pleased. Is Waxoyl a unique product, or is there a domestic product that is comparable? From what I have seen, it appears that Waxoyl may be similar to Ziebart, Rusty Jones, or Eastwood's Haevy Duty Anti Rust. Can anyone sort this out for me? 2. What should I use to paint the exterior of the frame after repair? What about remainer of undercarriage, e.g. axle housings? Should I use a product like Extend before painting? Are the cold galvanising products worthwhile? 3. What should I look for in selecting which gearbox I should use? Is axial play of input shaft a problem, or can it be adjusted out by bearing preloading? Or should I just assume that I should renew all bearings? Art's gearbox has about 250,000 miles. The other - who knows? I suspect less. 4. I expect to rebuild my 2.25 petrol engine. However, I see a number of used engines offered for sale in LRO. I know about buying a pig in a poke, but the idea is intriguing when one considers that a complete rebuild is probably in the area of $1000 for parts. Does anyone have suggestions here? John Karlsson Hope Valley, RI From S|ren Vels Christensen Mon Feb 27 02:20:03 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 02:20:03 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Series III question(s) On Sun, 26 Feb 1995 taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu wrote: > Hi there, > (oh god, he's changed his mind again...) :) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > boxes...how strong they are...how easily the "synch"...how well they perform > off road...and their maintenance schedule. Not all sIII has an all-synch gearbox. I only have synch on 1-2. 3-4 are leaving. I just double declutch. If the clutch needs bleeding i take the time to sneak it in with a little skewing combined with a special move with the wrist. Last time i changed the gearoil i got a handfull of chips (teeth). But i can still floor the throttle i 3'rd uphill without a knack from the gearbox. So i don't worry. With rgd to maintenance schedule, - the box is 19 years old, so i will have to rebuild it within the next 15. Give or take a few. > Thanks. Not at all. Just don't ask about the tiptronic gearbox in the 76-81 Disco's. > I may be changing my mind from a IIa to a III. Although the IIa is more > formidable off road, I think as a daily driver/offroad truck instead of an > offroad/daily driver truck (notice the priority) I may in fact, as many of you > have suggested, be better off with a III...NOT a BUICK, but a Series III. :) I have similar priorities and i would certainly prefer to have sync on 2'nd. > I think that question was safe, but just in case, I'll put on my flame- > retardant underwear. :) Too warm during summer. Instead, - when buying check the fuel line and oil leaks on the block. > Taylor > <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> > offroad/daily driver truck (notice the priority) I may in fact, as many of you P.S. You are always welcome at my place for a drive ;-) sv I /aurens From ChipEast@aol.com Sun Feb 26 22:00:08 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 22:00:08 -0500 From: ChipEast@aol.com Subject: Lucas and more I just heard a Lucas joke all will appreciate... Q: Why do the Brits drink warm beer? A: Lucas makes refrigerators too!. On a more serious note, I understand room is available in the Land Rover Rally planned for north Georgia Sunday 5 March 95. It was posted 8 Feb 95 on the digest if you are saving all transmissions. If not, Call Margie and Don @ (404) 343-8283 and ask if you can join. They can give complete directions on how to find the place. As of friday, 50 people and 20 Rovers had signed up with more to come. To all of you in the southeast (USA) you will have to try some of my home-brew...the next batch will be just as strong as Gennisses, but only cost $25 to brew two cases ( 5 US gallons). It is a way to save up for an overdrive...and have a fun hobby too. Later...Chip From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sun Feb 26 23:58:44 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 23:58:44 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Re: Series III question(s) > > Not all sIII has an all-synch gearbox. I only have synch on 1-2. 3-4 = are > leaving. I just double declutch. If the clutch needs bleeding i take = the I take it you HAD all synch at one time, but they don't work too well n= ow? :) My Blazer is the same way. It had gotten rediculous at one time but it= =20wasn't the synchs that had gone, it was the bushing bearing. But that's anoth= er story. I can't remember how I phrased my question, did I mention the c= oncern about having to pause between shifts? If I didn't please tell me what = you think. If I did, how long a pause or would slow steady shifting be suf= ficient. > time to sneak it in with a little skewing combined with a special mov= e with > the wrist. Last time i changed the gearoil i got a handfull of chips > (teeth). You're not supposed to open the thing with your teeth! Not unless your= screwdriver is broken and you can't find your crescent wrench > But i can still floor the throttle i 3'rd uphill without a knack from= =20the > gearbox. So i don't worry. With rgd to maintenance schedule, - the bo= x is 19 > years old, so i will have to rebuild it within the next 15. Give or t= ake > a few. That's nice to know. > > I have similar priorities and i would certainly prefer to have sync o= n 2'nd. How much offroading do you do? How does it fare? > > > I think that question was safe, but just in case, I'll put on my fl= ame- > > retardant underwear. :) > > Too warm during summer. Instead, - when buying check the fuel line an= d oil > leaks on the block. I meant to be safe during a possible flame war. > P.S. You are always welcome at my place for a drive ;-) > Fine, where do you live? Taylor -- =20 One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, =20 One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them =20 In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From Sekerere@aol.com Mon Feb 27 00:22:44 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 00:22:44 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Straps First a very grateful thank you to those of you who have helped in the past with my questions. Owning one of the aluminium workhorses for the first time is quite an experience, and the subject of many questions. My favorite beast has some straps that used to go around the back axle, but are now broken. They are made of heavy duty canvas and are about 1 1/2 inches wide. What are they for, and should I replace them poste haste, or can they wait a while?. Next question- may be a stupid one, but as a teacher I've learned that there are no stupid questions- if my tryes are 10.5 inches wide, then what size are my rims? I know they are 15 inch rims, but what is the width. The question revolves around my thought of getting rid of these tyres as I dislike them in favor of narrower ones. Cheers Chris W. 1966 Series IIA 88" LHD "AntiChrist" From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Feb 26 22:07:38 1995 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 22:07:38 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Series III question(s) >Series III owners out there, let me know what you think of your all-synch gear >boxes...how strong they are...how easily the "synch"...how well they perform >off road...and their maintenance schedule. Great, 10, very easy (I downshift routinely --let the engine do the work), no complaints off-road, mainenance --see below. I've had a 1972 Series III for 13 some years. I've never had any problems with the gearbox, or needed to pause between shifting or double clutching (as per your earlier post). I did put a Bearmach overdrive into 'Ralph' early on, as I did more highway driving (to the ski slopes etc). I was told --by Scotty I believe-- that Bearmach had less of a tendancy to burn out than the Ferry ...I mean the Fairey that most people have. Also I did replace the carburetor with a 2 barrel Weber for better reliability, performance, mileage, ego, ...whatever. Ralph's previous conservator had mistreated him somewhat in off-road (?) shenanigans. In the first year or so my left axel broke (drivetrain fuse) and I had to get at the diferential to take out the broken stub. A few months later the other axel broke. I surmised both axels/drivetrain had been stressed previously as I had only been driving on roadways. Two or three years after that I was cruising on my way to my local pub when suddenly an intense cracking and grinding sound came out of my gearbox area. I feared I had broken a gear and loose parts were circulating in my transmission rapidly disintegrating it entirely. I jammed on the clutch and coasted to a stop. The engine ran fine. I let the clutch out and the horrible noises started up again. Next day I had Ralph towed back to the parking lot (fortunately only about 5 miles away) with visions of mucho bucks dancing through my head. I went to see Scotty, the preeminent gearbox officionado in the Bay Area, who said to "bring it in". After six months of having Ralph quietly grow moss in his window channels, I grabbed my Haines and parts cans and went to it. After taking out the seats and support bench, disconnecting everything in back of the gearbox, the clutch, etc, and supporting the weight of the transmission/transfer box, I managed to get all the bolts off at the bell housing. As I pulled it back, metal pieces started out. Whoa... the pieces were clutch pieces, shattered into a dozen bits. I checked the box for movement rotating the spline, shifting all gears... smooth as silk. After a new clutch plate, throw out bearing, etc and reinstallation everything was back to normal, only better. Had I known the problem to be only a clutch, I would have replaced it much sooner. As part of the drivetrain, I attribute the worn clutch to previous mistreatment also. As to maintenance, change the oil every season. Not so much that the oil needs to be replaced because it might be broken down, but to check on the condition of gearboxes by looking for metal filings (, teeth, gears, etc). My biggest fear was that the oil had leaked out and I was running Ralph while dry, so I made it a point to check the fluid levels every three to six months depending on the amount of use. In later years I replaced all the gear oil (the 12 odd places) with Redline synthetic. Other Roverines commented on how quiet my gearbox(es) was. I think synthetics are smoother, slicker, adhere and coat to metal better, and have a wider temperature operating range. Sorry to dribble on... Ask me about parking in sub freezing temperatures sometime. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 27 95 Feb EST 1905 Date: 27 Feb 95 05:01:13 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Height Question C.T.S. III wants to know: >you have to pause in neutral between shifts in a Series III? You don't _have_ to, but it will do the gearbox a world of good if you do... The syncro in the S.III gearbox is slightly underdimensioned for the load it has to take. Shift it like pretending it *wasn't* synchronized, and you'll never have problems with it. Stefan From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Feb 27 10:05:15 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 10:05:15 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Overlanding > And yes, it will rain. In Juneau I was amused by the defensiveness of a > US Forest Service employee who maintained that Juneau's reputation as a > rainy city was way overstated: "Precipitation is only 100 inches per year", > she said. "There are lots of places that get more rain than that." > Undoubtedly true, and many of them are close to Juneau. Balquhidder (a small village in Scotland where I when to primary school) has 120 inches of rain a year.... :) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From Spenny@aol.com Mon Feb 27 06:59:42 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 06:59:42 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: legroom is same actually the 109 has more leg room than the 88 , the bulkhead is further back in the 109 (those with bulkhead, that is-non SW,) that is why you need the adapter plate to put a cab top on an 88. the difference is around 2-3 inches, and that is a lot of difference to some one 6' this is one of the main reasons i want a 109 for my daily driver. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Spenny@aol.com Mon Feb 27 07:00:05 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 07:00:05 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Height Question, rover love, double de-clutching Taylor, the actual britspeak term is double de-clutching, in the series three full syncromesh gearbox this is not necessary, however in the series II & IIA you need to double de-clutch between 1st and second I wll let others speak regarding the relative merits and drawbacks of both gearboxes britspeak- when us yank rover owners use the british tems to describe our rovers, while horribly butchering the queen's english with the rest of the sentences. Taylor, the best way to learn about rovers is to just get one 3 years ago i didn't have any idea what a socket set was. the decision wether to get a rover is a gut decsion, the rover isnt a car or a means of transportation it is a way of life. my rover is my only method of transportation, that means if it isnt working i walk, it also mean that i spend a lot of time under it even when i dont want to. you dont decide to buy a rover on how much legroom it has or wether you have to double de-clutch. if you want to own a rover you make sacrifices, loss of speed on the highway, or you shell out for a non rover to make the 500 mile trip to see your family. rovers are not about ease of use or comfort, they are about the sheer joy you get driving them, working on them, riding in them, and just looking at them. (my ex. and i would argue about who would drive the rover and who would drive the brand new saturn with A/C, CD etc. the looser could console him/herself by picking out their favorite CD!) Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "Lapa, Hank" Mon Feb 27 08:49:31 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 08:49:31 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Subject: Prospective 2nd Land-Rover (Discovery) Query All, Just before my annual conjugal visit with the wife (further proof that criminal conviction is often a better deal than naval service) I went out and test drove '95 Blazer, Explorer, and (surprise)... Discovery, the last pretty much on a whim because, well, I expect my better half will regularly, if not mostly, drive whatever new 4WD we chose, where she has never driven my Ser II 109. (Jeep and various "light stuff" are not under consideration.) To my partial amazement, she was much in favor of the Disco idea, though she's never even seen one up close. That being said, are there any Disco owners out there with useful war stories -- what to watch out for, etc? I plan on ordering a 5-speed, which seems to be the UNpopular choice among American yups (as if I cared) for August delivery. What real problems have you encountered with your '84/5 Discos, big or small? In what environment? Is dealer (at time-of-purchase) best source for the add-ons, or should I watch for AB and RN specials? Is on-road performance adequate in all respects? (Off-road is a given.) How much galvanizing, if any, is there on steel below the skin? Other corrosion protection? Need aftermarket rustproofing? Please give me your wisdom, but don't need the propaganda. Any reason NOT to simply order the new vehicle through one of the two local (Fairfax, VA; Laurel MD) authorized dealers? By the way, I lean strongly toward getting the decidedly utilitarian-looking steel wheels, and will probably paint them in Limestone which, with a Coniston Green body, will help proclaim my "traditional" values w.r.t. the marque, and make for a "twin" to my 1960 LWB. Is there a significant, pragmatic reason to go with glitzy alloy rims instead? Answer direct if you prefer, or to the list if you deem of interest to others. Series II through-and-through, (Still, might get a Disco, too) Hank ;-) p.s. Everyone see the L-Rs impersonating Russian military vehicles in last night's "Op Center" on American Tee Wee? (Another Tom Clancy film. Clancy used to be the insurance agent for some of my in-laws.) From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Feb 27 13:23:40 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 13:23:40 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Overlanding > That's one of the worries I have about my dream trip (Top of Europe to the > bottom of africa and back) That is one hell of a long trip! We are talking about several months just for Africa! ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Feb 27 13:39:59 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 13:39:59 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Straps > My favorite beast has some straps that used to go around the back axle, but > are now broken. They are made of heavy duty canvas and are about 1 1/2 inches > wide. What are they for, and should I replace them poste haste, or can they > wait a while?. Next question- may be a stupid one, but as a teacher I've The straps are to stop the axles dropping too far..... you only really need them if you intend to do alot of 3-wheel driving. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Feb 27 09:50:51 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 09:50:51 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Discovery price... Okay, the full story! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Discovery price... Okay, the full story! Thanks for your blunt honesty Bill Caloccia. Quite honestly, I appreciate that much more than if you'd "blown sunshine...". With a heavy sigh, I must admit, you're probably right. But in the LR owner tradition, I too am prone to parsimoniousness, (I love that word, but I SURELY don't talk that way... does anyone REALLY try to communicate with such pretentiousness?) and would like to get the most possible (lose as little as possible.) By the way, for those of you that didn't bother to look up that word, it's "Excessive thrift or frugality". For those that didn't NEED to look it up... My hat's off to you! Back to the subject: The absolute truth is: I bought the Discovery in October as a demo unit, with 5500 miles and a $3000 discount. With tax/lic. I actually paid $38561.56. So, I guess I'd like to start at $34,000? Does that sound reasonable? Even losing $5K after only 5 months seems excessive, albeit realistic. Maybe (gulp) $33,000?? I REALLY don't WANT to sell her... but must. So armed with this information... What IS a fair and realistic price? And... is anyone interested? Dave Brown (very sad...) - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona. :-( #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 27 09:47:53 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 09:47:53 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Actual sensory connections In message <2043608c.1ec61-taylors@tia.hubcap.clemson.edu> C. Taylor Sutherland, III writes: > Hi guys, > But I did see (inside a garage, because the guy was closed!) a couple > of what looked like Ser.III 109's that looked in excellent condition. Taylor, they were most likely series IIA 109s. They stopped importing 109s after '68, before they started making the series III. A few series III 109s got into this country as individual imports, I think I have seen one & it was imported from South Amreica when the owner immigrated. > I may offend some Original-Or-Not-A-Rover-At-All but I think I will > have to do something about those seats. :) I don't think they were the > deluxe > seats but they were kind of boxy, right angles and the like. none The black deluxe seats are the same as the gray ones except they have more seams and the edges are raised. But basically they are the same seats. The drivers seat is adjustable, but since leg space is minimal, most people have the driver's seat jammed all the way back. Scotty had old Volvo seats in is 109. You sit a little higher and he says they are more comfortable. On long tours I've never had problems with the seats. My problem is the minimal leg space. I have to stop every couple of hours to take a short walk to keep my legs from aching. Not something I need to do in the TR3 or the MGB. Of course now the dog loves getting out for a short walk too. Ideally I would like to cut the Land rover in half through the front floor and weld it back together with an extra 6 to 8 inches between the seat box and pedals. But as long as I stop to uncramp my legs Its livable and hauls a LOT more stuff (7 bales with the top on) than even the MGBGT (holds 2 bales of hay or the TR3 (one bale sticking out of the boot and one standing up in the passanger seat) > Of course it > wasn't put in the best light...right within sight of all those nicely painted [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > oxidized to hell and back but it served it's purpose which was to let me sit > in one and get the feel of where the pedals were. Most series Land Rovers have the original paint...or whats left of it. Many who have been repainted have paint that has been brushed on or applied from a case of spray cans. Nicely painted non-dented Land Rovers generally bring an extra 4 to 8 thousand dollars to the price tag ( it costs about US$ 3-4K to have the interior & exterior of a Land Rover properly professionally painted. Up until recently most US Land Rovers have been in the hands of quirky types who normally do not have enough extra cash for a proper repair, let alone a proper paint job & reupholstry job. My seats are mostly duct tape ith some gray vynal showing. > What I did expect was that the seats to sit up higher so that you > would have to reach down a bit to get to the pedals, kind of like in the > Defender 90. Not so. I guess this had to do with the fact that the seats > were nothing more than cushions. Well,you could purchase a set of Defender 90 seats & put them into your LR. Scotty had a pair of seats from an old Volvo in his 109. > I don't think I'll want a hard top because I don't like the look of > them, > Defender 90. Not so. I guess this had to do with the fact that the seats YOU DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF A SERIES LR HARD TOP????? You are on the edge of blasphemy with that statement. Why I have herd of people being tard, feathered and run out of town on a toyota for less. > Question, what's the difference in the leg room in a 109 and an 88 for the > driver? > Defender 90. Not so. I guess this had to do with the fact that the seats The long & short bed LRs are basically the same from the back of the seat box forward. The six cylinder bulkhead is differnt, but all the body parts are interchangable and the same seat box forward. I wish the 109s had more leg space but I can just imagine it does & feel better. > Taylor TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 27 09:55:15 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 09:55:15 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Height Question In message <2043679a.c2a2c-taylors@tia.hubcap.clemson.edu> C. Taylor Sutherland, III writes: > Question, > With 16" tires, do the Series II's or III's sit up at a comparable height to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > you have to pause in neutral between shifts in a Series III? > Taylor Depends on how long you want to keep the transmission in good condition. The series III box has a reputation for being weak and breaking easily. A year or so ago, I was chatting with Scotty as he was showing me the remains of a series III box. He explained that the shifter needs to come to a complete stop in between gears to keep things from breaking. I belive he said if people would make it a point to stop briefly in neutral, there is no reason a series III box couldn't last as long as a IIA box. But then again, one of his recent pet projects has been converting IIA boxes to full syncro. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Spenny@aol.com Mon Feb 27 13:00:17 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 13:00:17 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re:: Straps Chris writes My favorite beast has some straps that used to go around the back axle, but are now broken. They are made of heavy duty canvas and are about 1 1/2 inches snip... I know they are 15 inch rims, but what is the snip the straps are axle retaining straps, the limit the downward movement of the axle, I wouldnt worry about them untill warm weather and an opportunity to work on your rover arises. currently i am driving without those **and** my shocks, i wouldnt do any off road stuff, but it shouldnt be a problem until warmer weather your rims are probably 6 inches wide, most of the 15" rims are. Any tire store should be able to verify this with tire/rim calipers. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 27 95 Feb EST 1912 Date: 27 Feb 95 12:57:06 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: MECHANIC Does anyone know a GREAT Land Rover mechanic in the Orlando Fl area. The local Range Rover dealership knows little about series LR. Thanks. Benjamin G. Newman,MD From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 27 10:11:12 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 10:11:12 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Series III question(s) In message <204472b1.4aa42-taylors@tia.hubcap.clemson.edu> C. Taylor Sutherland, III writes: > Hi there, > (oh god, he's changed his mind again...) :) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > retardant underwear. :) > Taylor So you want an All Syncro box, a plastic grill and a big vynal instrument panel. Thats nice. I think you will find however (via flame mail) that the series III is at least as good as a series II off road or on it. They are basically the same car with a new transmission & a couple of little changes, including an instrument panel designed to meet US safety regs. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 27 10:19:22 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 10:19:22 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: legroom is same In message <950227065942_33522331@aol.com> writes: > actually the 109 has more leg room than the 88 , the bulkhead is further back > in the 109 (those with bulkhead, that is-non SW,) that is why you need the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! > What will they think of next! That extra space is behind the seatbox. Thats why I keep my high lift jack, jumper cables, shovel & more between the seat back & bulkhead. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 27 10:26:09 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 10:26:09 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: correction-series III trans I just realized I should have been more careful in my wording. I remember Scotty to say that the way the series III box is set up, the syncro comes to a halt midway between gears for the shift even if you do not stop on your shift. If it does not come to a halt, the transmission would break after a short time. Speed shifting decreases the likelyhood that the proper parts come to a halt. Momentarily coming to a stop in neutral would maximize the transmission's ability to make a smooth shift without adverse wear. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Mon Feb 27 14:11:14 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 14:11:14 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Leaks WRT the thread on leaks that fill the driver's shoes up with water, I had the same problem with my S III...even though the gaskets under both pedal boxes had been replaced and sealed w/ silicone RTV. Anyway, someone at an ABP rally (Rich Ziegler maybe?) mentioned the windshield T-bolt (the part that joins to the A pilar support post)...seems it sits "below the waterline" when it's pouring. A minute amount of silicone applied with a tooth pick around the base of the bolt ends the problem. "Try it...you'll like it." BTW - did anyone catch the Rover on Tom Clancy's "Op Center" last night? (Clancy didn't actually *write* it, it turns out, just did some "consulting work".) The bad guys (rogue KGB agents) steal a couple o' nukes and get away in a 109 (with the breakfast altered to make it look like something else/Russian) and an 8 wheeled APC due to the muddy roads. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "Kerner, Robert" Mon Feb 27 11:16:00 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 11:16:00 PST From: "Kerner, Robert" Subject: Questions I took my 1973 88 off road this weekend for a camping trip. I went out to Anza Borrego desert and drove through Coyote Canyon. It was a very challenging trip for me. I have taken the landrover 4X4ing before, but this had some difficult terrain. On some of the larger rocks climbing out of the canyon I could have used more ground clearance.(ie I bent the backing plate for the emergency brake on a rock when I had to back down to get more momentum) I hooked up with two other vehicles (One was a Toyota Landcruizer that had a lot of work done on it to make it a better 4X4, and a 1992 Defender 90(STOCK)) The Toyota had the rear springs mounted above the axels, and the u-bolts facing up. THis didn't change any of the suspensions geometry, but it gave it a lift, and protects the end of the u-bolts. I realize this would raise the center of gravity, but does this sound like a crazy idea and would it cause other problems??? It would also then allow me to run bigger tires. The landrover does go everywhere, but I get the feeling if I want to tackle the Rubicon I may need some more clearance. I also am interested in a rollbar/cage that would fit under the hardtop. If you want to e-mail me directly please do so. Why was there so much bickering between people with Series I, II, IIA and Series III and the new Disco's, RR, and Def.? Older isn't always better, the same way newer and more expensive isn't either.(although plastic does suck) Just enjoy your vehicles. We also shouldn't be making snappy remarks about other 4X4's, because others may just be misinformed, or have other loyalties. As long as it get the job done for the individual. The LRO list should be informative. That's my preaching for the day. Rob Kerner fork0@smtp.ais.ucla.edu GO Bruins Basketball!!! From C Taylor Sutherland III Mon Feb 27 15:06:42 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 15:06:42 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: irc How's about starting up a frequently used irc channel, i.e. LandRover. This is of course for all the people who don't have lives. :) And actually drive theirs instead of talking about them all time. Never mind. It doesn't seem like that feasible an idea any more. :) From "Mugele, Gerry" Mon Feb 27 12:16:00 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 12:16:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: LR @ the Movies Pierce Reid said >>FYI, it appears that all the (Tom) Clancy Movies feature Land Rovers "somewhere" in them. Apparently so...caught a preview on the tube for the new Clancy miniseries "Op Center"....had a quick view of a 110 or 127... Of course I HAD to watch the silly show last night. It was indeed a long wheelbase Land Rover. But since it was being driven by the bad guy KGB nuclear weapons thieves it was doctored up to look funky. Think it was a 110 shot with a wide-angle lens....but it looked awfully long. Gerry 72 88 From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 27 15:33:07 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 15:33:07 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: irc On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: > How's about starting up a frequently used irc channel, i.e. LandRover. > This is of course for all the people who don't have lives. :) Get a Land Rover first. You will find your time for IRC stuff to be secondary. How a bout a message from you that you have actually put a deposit down on one? From UncleBrad@aol.com Mon Feb 27 17:13:33 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 17:13:33 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Cheap 110s? Got a message from Andrew Wright about those 110s. I guess the subject isn't dead yet: >From: andyw@xilinx.com (Andrew Wright) I spoke to the dealer in the Bay Area today with regard to the Deal Below, he is having a meeting next Tuesday with the guys selling these vehicles and is still confident of putting a deal together. I apologize for the delay, but there is little to be gained from hassling the guy, he says he will give me more info as soon as he has it, and I will forward it to you then. For now we must play the waiting game. Fingers crossed, Andrew Wright Vehicle Info (These are all the details I have for now) ------------ Year: 1993 only Model: 110" and 130" wheelbase (No 90" models, 130" is a military special) Engine: V8 Turbo Deisel only (No gas engines) Colours: Military Colour only (You will have to respray them yourself) Options: Information not available at this time Cost: approx $17,000 + duty (2.5%) + tax (8.25%) + registration + shipping, total approx $19,500 + registration Notes: Vehicles are EPA & DOT approved Finance: The broker would require a deposit, this would be refundable if he is unable to supply the vehicle as specified. Location: Vehicle are currently in Canada.< To tell you the truth, I'm not sure I'm all that interested anymore. Anything that involves this much controversy is pretty risky, in my book. But... who knows? Brad Blevins From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 27 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 27 Feb 95 17:55:39 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: gearboxes It is my humble opinion, based on 25 years experience in using ( in competition and every day road use, often towing a trailer ), breaking and repairing ser 2 and 3 gearboxes that the 2A is the strongest. In addition to my own I have repaired dozens for club mates. Ser 3 gearboxes are ok for women and learner drivers. In order to fit the synchro rings into the first and second gears ( ser 1 and 2 are synchro on 3rd and 4th) it was necessary to reduce the tooth length on the 1 st to 2nd gear engagement, the act that engages 2nd gear. Consequently the life expectancy of the 2nd gear is considerably shorter than on the non synchro box. This gives a ser 3 the problem of jumping out of or crunching the gear. Ser 3 rev gears are a common cause of trouble. The gearboxes alll share the same 2 and 3 gear bearing arrangement, so the same problems of easing out of 3 and 4 are experienced with both. It is possible to change gear in a well set up 2a box without the need to double de clutch ( difficult on 2 to 1 change ) at a much quicker rate than on a ser 3, the synchro slows down the gearchange, It is also relatively easy to change gear in a ser 2 without the use of the clutch, a useful skill given the failure rate of slave cylinders. The canvas straps around the rear axle are to limit the rear axle travel under extreme axle articulation, leave em off, they serve no useful purpose on an everyday motor, just collect dirt, and limit the offroad ability. On Saturday evening I went to a local groups function, a guy, seeing my Land Rover sweatshirt told me that they have a Range Rover at work, he works in a local quarry and the boss uses it to drive around the quarry, it is not used to drive on the road. I have put my name down for the scrap one day!!. Regards Bill Leacock. Limey in exile. From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Feb 27 15:18:52 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 15:18:52 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Cheap 110s? Brad Blevins wrote: > I apologize for the delay, but there is little to be gained from > hassling the guy, he says he will give me more info as soon as he has > it, and I will forward it to you then. I think we are all eagerly awaiting any hard information that develops. > Vehicle Info (These are all the details I have for now) > ------------ > Year: 1993 only > Model: 110" and 130" wheelbase (No 90" models, 130" is a military > special) My how the details change, or is this yet another lot of LR? Last I heard we were looking at: 1. LANDROVERS MODEL 110 - SPECIAL PRICE US$.15,750.00 BRAND NEW [ UNUSED ] 1992 MODEL 4 X 4, UK BUILT, CURRENTLY IN NORTH AMERICA FIRST BATCH - 600 UNITES, ADDITIONAL 1,200 UNITES WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE. 2. LANDROVER MODEL 90S - SPECIAL PRICE US$. 15,450.00 BRAND NEW [ UNUSED] 1992 MODEL, 4 X 4 UK BUILT, CURRENTLY IN NORTH AMERICA QUANTITY: 90 UNITS Must be a "new" batch. > Cost: approx $17,000 + duty (2.5%) + tax (8.25%) + registration > + shipping, total approx $19,500 + registration > Notes: Vehicles are EPA & DOT approved > Model: 110" and 130" wheelbase (No 90" models, 130" is a military The DOT approved 130s?!? Maybe these guys got an approval on this lot. Up until know I hadn't heard of the DOT crash testing (and such) 130s. Anyone got DOT contacts? > Location: Vehicle are currently in Canada.< Another Canadian lot? Robin, you hear anything about these ones. > To tell you the truth, I'm not sure I'm all that interested anymore. Anything > that involves this much controversy is pretty risky, in my book. But... who > knows? If they end up being street legal in the US, I might be interested. But that's a big "if" there. I'd want to see documentation before Iput down any cash. So far this year I've heard the following "special" buys. 1)Ex UN Canadian LR/later found in Montana which were derelicts. 2)Rumors of newish Rovers in Florida 3)the "CURRENTLY IN NORTH AMERICA" bunch that claimed to have "ALL VEHICLES ARE BUILT TO MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS WITH CALIFORNIA EPA AND DOT APPROVAL, which implies US military vehicles, not Canadian ones. 4)And now this lot that are currently in Canada. Call me suspicious, but I won't believe anything intil some facts can be verified. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 27 16:12:22 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 16:12:22 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: gearboxes In message <950227225538_75473.3572_FHQ71-1@CompuServe.COM> "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" writes: > It is my humble opinion, based on 25 years experience in using ( in > competition [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > repaired dozens for club mates. > Ser 3 gearboxes are ok for women and learner drivers. I'm glad you said OK & not mandantory. I just had my IIA box rebuilt from snaping a layshaft & would feel bad if I had to replace it with a Series III box. My IIA box & I have been together 16 &1/2 years now. I've sorta got attached to it. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Feb 28 11:15:31 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:15:31 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Axle straps Hi all, Re: Axle straps. If you choose to leave the straps off make sure that the rear prop shaft (drive shaft) has plenty of clearance through the chassis tunnel. Bent shafts are a real pain, trust me on this. You may also want to make sure that the slip joint has enough engagement to hang together at full droop. Sort of ackward if it comes apart. 1" (25mm) Climbing tape makes a reasonable substitute for the originals and wears well. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Feb 27 16:53:07 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 16:53:07 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: "Jeeps are Crap in the snow ...." All, I have to share this with you all. Today I was on my way to the airport in the Range Rover. Its was snowing in South Western N.H and the roads had not been plowed. I was following a Toyota Celica and a Grren Jeep Cherokee Grand Laredo. The Toyota had an old dear in it and she was doing no more than 25-30 MPH, being some what of a hurry because of the snow and traffic, I waited for a clear strecth of road and then pulled out to pass the Jeep and the Toyota, gently pressing the gas pedal. As sweet as ever, the Range Rover pulled without slipping, I passed both the Jeep and the Toyota. The old dear in the Toyota flashed her lights !!! What do you expect I thought. Anyway the road was clear and the guy in the Jeep starts to follow me. I have no idea what happen next, but I looked back in the rear view mirror to see a cloud of snow, then the old dear in the toyota suddenly appeared !!!. Then I see the Green Jeep doing 360's down the road finally ending up in a ditch. Being concerened, I stopped and went back to make sure the driver was okay. I called the police and then checked on the Jeep's driver. His pride was dented, and so was his Jeep. He must have hit the ditch and then hit a large boulder at the bottom of it. The Jeep was totalled at the front. He was okay and I waited until the police came, about 5 mins. He told me that he thought he could follow me when I pulled out to pass him and the toyota but he lost it in the snow. As I was leaving he then said "I guess my Jeep is crap in the snow, it's certainly not as good as your Range Rover". I agreed and said goodbye. Mark From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 27 20:07:59 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:07:59 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: introduction and thanks Howdy Stuart... > I don'Ut own a Land Rover, but am very interested in acquiring a IIa or > III 88. I want to own one for purely sentimental, and probably foolish, > reasons..... Foolish? Naaaaaa... > (un)Fortunately my fiance Holly is not only completely supportive of my > quest, she wishes I would speed the process of finding a Land Rover > because when she was a child her family owned a III 88. I was counting > on her to be the voice of reason and common sense, but alas it is not to > be. I am a very lucky man. You sure are! If you don't marry that gem, one of us will!! :) > Because rural Iowa is not exactly the center of the Land Rover universe, I Or the center of any universe, for that matter! But they have women that appeciate a fine vehicle... Well, Stuart... good luck with your search! Gee.. maybe if your wife-to-be likes Rovers enough, you'll have to buy two!! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 27 20:08:16 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:08:16 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Hello John makes a big pile of parts... > the last few weeks, something came over me, and I started to disassemble > Art, my Land Rover since about 1970, and the 67 88 parts car I bought > for $75 about 1983. Now I have a barn full of parts, and the chassis of ..........snip..... > new crossmember, which I bought about ten years ago in anticipation. Now > that I'm out of the garage, I'll start asking questions. Gee... got any more room in the barn?? I'll bring my '65 over and help you make a bigger pile!! :-) > 1. I've heard about Waxoyl for years. Unfortunately, I've misplaced > the address for Moss Motors, where I am told one can purchase Waxoyl. > If someone could provide same, I would be most pleased. Is Waxoyl a > unique product, or is there a domestic product that is comparable? Moss Motors Ltd... phone 800-667-7872 P.O. Box 487 Goleta, CA 93116 A while back there was a discussion of rustproofing & Waxyol. There is some stuff here in the states called LPS.. don't have the phone# or address off-hand. It's an industrial product similar to, but not quite tha same as Waxoly. Another popular practice is to spray down the frame with 90wt gear oil, inside and out, at least once a year. Whatever you do, its going to be messy, but worth the trouble. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Steve Firth Tue Feb 28 01:14:01 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 01:14:01 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest ChipEast@aol.com writes: > Q: Why do the Brits drink warm beer? > A: Lucas makes refrigerators too!. It's gone too far, I have to defend our national institutions. 1) Our beer is not served warm, it is served cool. The problem is that in the US beer is served far too cold for its own good. I can only guess that the reason for this is that Budweiser served at a temperature high enough to 'appreciate' its taste would remind Americans that this product is recycled. If you doubt me, try some real Czech "Bud" to see what it should taste like. 2) What gives with the Lucas stuff? I find no problem with the Lucas parts on any of my vehicles. I *do* find that the French (Ducellier) parts are prone to breakdown. Could it be (perchance) that the majority of vehicles of which we speak are pre-'67 abused and subsequently restored examples? I think the way that good machinery gets treated is more at question here than the durability of the compnents from which the Land Rover is assembled. -- Steve Firth '81 109" 2.25 petrol "Safari" From Steven M Denis Mon Feb 27 20:58:10 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:58:10 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Leg Room The legroom is greater in the 109. while it is true that the 88 and the 109 are the same from the back of the seatbox forward, the bulkhead/seat bar(sw models) dimensions are *not* the same...in a 109 2 dr the fuel filler neck on the tank is in the cab, forward of the bulkhead, in the 88 the filler is behind the bulkhead..the reason is that there is not enough distance on the 88 between the rear edge of the door opening and the front edge of the bulkhead for the filler cap and plate...the 109 has the bulkhead a good 3 inches further back...the seat back rests on extentions but is *still* further away from the firewall.. another proof of the added distance is the 88 requires a spacer plate at the bulkhead to accept the truck cab...on the 109 the rear of the cab sits on the top of the bulkhead.....I own both...the 109 has more leg room...at 6'4" and 220 the "little" 88 is just enough smaller to feel like a "clown car"... the biggest improvement I have found for leg room on a 109 is to fit the windscreen and roof from a 110..you can then use a higher seat and still see out the top of the screen... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Craig Murray Tue Feb 28 14:06:11 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:06:11 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Axle Straps Hi all, All that I have been told about axle straps is, that if you are going to do series off roading in your series Land Rover, then take them off, as they restrict suspension travel, as for the talk of bent prop shafts, I have never seen one, and my sisters 88" has more suspension travel than a 110" through extended shakels and very tired leaf springs! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My Car is constipated email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day! From Craig Murray Tue Feb 28 14:25:09 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:25:09 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Axle Straps > > All that I have been told about axle straps is, that if you are > > going to do series off roading in your series Land Rover, then take them [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > Made my own straps, longer than standard, so as to stop this happening in the > future. (dont have straps on the Stage 1 as no chassis tunnel) My brother has no such worries in his ex-army IIA. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Feb 27 19:23:22 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:23:22 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Radio's, CB's and C.D in Land Rovers All, Anyway help with this. I want to put a radio and CB in my SIII. There was an old radio mounted to the lower dash of the SIII. I pulled it out, it was broken anyway. Where is the best place to install a radio. I had a look in the local Radio shack for a box to install the radio, can't find one. Anyway help. I have a Trakkers cubby box installed instead of the centre seat. I want to put a radio, CB and also my portable CB player from the Range Rover in the SIII. Mark From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Feb 27 19:23:34 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:23:34 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Beryl's first run in 6 Years. All, Beryl, my SIII, is going to have its first run this Sunday. I have almost finshed the restoration ! I just have to put in my new Trakkers seats which are still in the box, put in the carpets, I know, I know Mike Loiodice, I'm a whimp !!! But they will keep the thing some what quiet when I make the weekly trip to the office in Waltham MA. 76 miles each way !!! Hey, you forget, I have been driving a Range Rover the past 3 years !!! I have been spoilt So it's drain the fuel out of the tank and put some fresh in and it's off we go........ with the Range Rover following close behind with a tow rope !!!! I live near a lake and the first run will be out the driveway, down to the lake, around the lake and home to double check EVERYTHING !!! I'm sure that something will need tightening up, and I'm expecting a leak of some sort, after all I have replaced EVERY hose, fuel line, brake pipes, clutch lines and heater hoses et al. Last week I got home Friday from being in Denver all week to find the garage floor covered in anti freeze, seems I didn't tighten a water hose last week when I was running the thing in the garage. I have the champagne ready, the camera is ready to record this moment in history. I will let you all know the outcome. Some usful info to those that have done this or planning on doing this : I started this project in early October. I have stripped down two SIII's, built one back up from the good parts from both and bought what I needed, here's some other info Spent 42 days in the garage 9-5 Bought SIII (Red Vinalhaven Rover) $600 Bought SIII (Blue Nantucket Rover) $300 Sold about $1400 in parts from the two. Bought $680 worth of parts from England with shipping. Spent $450 on welding the floor and chassis leg, crossmember and outrigger. Brusied every knuckle on both hands. Slipped off the roof when trying to get parts from my storage area above the garage bruised my back. Cut my hand TWICE on the fan blade checking for a manifold leak. Shorted one battery !! Broke two 6" socket exensions bars trying to remove the old wheels from Vinalhaven Rover Burnt out one heater trying to keep the garage warm in Jan (after the 60's weather) Thrown out three pairs of old greased up jeans that my wife refuses to wash. Drank endless gallons of Coffee. Spent almost $50 on hand cleaner. I have documented my efforts, pictures and words. Once Beryl is running I will first take the wife on vacation, she is now feeling like the second woman (Righlty so !!!) and then I have to take care of everything I neglected around the house over the past 5-6 months. Lastly, while on vacation on the beach, I will write all this stuff up on the laptop, that should piss her off !!! Now lets hope for some really great rain to make the trails in Southern New Hampshire real muddy. I can't wait. Mark From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Mon Feb 27 20:07:21 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 20:07:21 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: Miscerovius Just finished testing the new Range Rover 4.0 SE. It is a complete evolution of the current Rangey. Let's forget about the styling wars for now - I still love my `90 County and always will. But the new SE offers a lot of new stuff - engine is 190 hp 4.0 - silky smooth and reasonably gnarly in the sport mode. Engine is really beefed - 4-bolt mains - cross-drilled forged crank. Sequential multi-port efi. Electronically shifted gearbox and xfer case! New H-gate shifter is really trick and super useful off-road when in the manual mode which holds any of the selected gears! Forward visibility dramatic. Fit and finish are now words that can be used without a smirk or without hushed tones. Panel gaps are world-class. Frame is absolutely massive and crumple zones are 2.5mm thick and perimeter main rails are 4mm (!) thick! Old frame is uniform 2.0 mm thick. Should see permanent end of frame rot problems. You'll be dead and gone by the time this one wastes away. Amenities are bordering on insane. Computer rivals HAL 9000. Dipping side mirrors in reverse! Superlock deadbolts the entire vehicle! Tilt/tele steering column! Two alarm systems. His/hers *smartkeys* remotely recall seat and mirror position. Dual digital climate control with one-touch progammed demisting- unreal. After driving it home and back to work yesterday, I felt as though I was stepping out of an E-class Benz. Off road? Still exceptional. Axle articulation published less than old car but in actuality about the same. Tires make monster difference. 255x65s! What can I say. It was still refreshing to switch back to my Defender, however. Somehow it was like putting on a favorite pair of jeans. But those who like new Rangeys (and can afford them - new one is 54625!) will sure find a lot to like about this vehicle. This will clearly distance the poseurs (i.e. - shitbox Fards/Jeops/Troobsters/Montashos/Blamzers/Land Crispers/Yecchons/ ad nauseum) once and for all. As for used Discos - black or blue or whatever. They may be *readily available* in some areas, but not in ours. It is still a 2 - 3 month wait. I don't hear any carping about the Def110 prices. All 500 were initially sold at MSRP. And if you can find one for less than that now - its money in the bank. I have this real problem about *car buying books.* I have read them all too. It always seems that they were all written by some ex-car salesman, ex-general manager, ex-dealer principal. Hmmmm. All these great 9.95 books. All of these super-rich, crooked, greedy car guys just wanted to quit this crummy wealthy business and write some crappy book to sell a few thousand copies. Supply and demand is really what it is all about and has always been about. People who want discounted cars which are in short supply? Wait. That simple. Buy an LWB - you'll definitely get a discount. If you've been reading the news lately - you'll notice that the only margins which have gone up are the manufacturer's - not the dealers. The mfrs don't want to totally scare off the car buyers. The MSRP stays constant but the invoice goes up. Don't believe me (sales *geek*) but it is true. I - new to the selling game - couldn't believe how small the margins really are. I - old to the buying game - paid MSRP for my 110 and was thankful to get one - thought that the dealer was *raking* me over. NOT. Yeah, they got full sticker. But Ralph Lauren bought three of them in one whack. Sent his buyer to pay for them with one check and pick them up. Doncha think the dealer could have marked them up (*additional dealer markup*) and gotten same? I can vouch for our Centre and state that we have NEVER marked up. 5000 Range Rovers a year. 12000 Discos for 1995. 1500 Defender 90s for 1995! Total projected 1995 sales = 20000 cars! Thats all. Will still be a record, BUT... 400,000 Explorers and 300,000 Grand Cherokees same period. How can anyone with average intelligence expect (demand being what it is) discounting and price shopping to yield similar percentages with Land Rovers??? C`mon! Look back to what our beloved series cars cost back in the 60s and 70s. Last MSRP I recall for a Ser 3 NADA in 1974 was around $5600! In 1974 dollars! Big bucks. Could by a `vette for same then. Vettes are $35K today. So are Discos. So what's the point? Look at houses. Look at TVs. Uh-huh. Look at used SERIES Land Rovers. $8,000. $12,000. More. I don't read any bitching about them. I paid $10,000 for my F/C. Been offered 20,000. Turned it down. Been offered $50,000 for my 110. Tempted. But turned it down. Besides, still paying for it. What's the point? Supply and demand. Always was - always will be. During the housing boom in Boston in the `80s. Sealed bids for houses!! 20 - 25% growth per year in prices. Land Rovers? Not even close. MSRP for an outstanding product which Ford is getting same money for a fluffed-out Ranger pickup truck which they call the *limited* with a keenex dispenser and same cruddy suspension and *yawn-a-minute* panache - over $35K MSRP - and getting it. And DISCO at MSRP is a *ripoff* ?? I don't think so. Want a discount? When they're sitting on the lots, they'll find buyers at discounts. Until then, they're finding happy new owners right now. Either way, enjoy! (I'm already lining up my fire blanket and bucket of sand for the responses to this one!). By the way. BSROA member C. Omanski's tricked-out DEF90 was in for service the other day. Member Steve Dennis move over! His license plate? *NOTABMW* Cheerz Jim Roverheadus geekoid salesmutatum From JDolan2109@aol.com Mon Feb 27 23:48:19 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 23:48:19 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Defense of Lucas Oh, no! Lucas jokes! Well, I'll come to the defense of Lucas electrics if no one else will. Other that that little *tussle* with the voltage regulator yesterday, this has been a good week, electrically speaking. (At one point the charge indicator light was on with ignition off and key out. Honest. Fiddled with contacts and now its as if I was imagining things. Any thoughts? Spare carried). Why, we have so much faith in Lucas electrics that we came up with the big bucks and bought one of those new Lucas keyboards for our computer. It works just glowingly. With all the use tha <> Transmission from sender lost. Possible cause - bad connection(s). Check ground and/or polarity. Maybe both. Good Luck. (You need it!) From "T.F. Mills" Mon Feb 27 22:16:40 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 22:16:40 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: new newsgroup Thought y'all might like to know there's a new newsgroup out there: rec.autos.4x4 Somebody might want to monitor it, and every now and then extol the virtues of the best 4x4xfar. (and pass on to us any mentions of Rovers). (I just accidentally destroyed my newsrc. file and don't have time to fix it.) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Feb 27 21:18:04 1995 Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 21:18:04 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Series III question(s) taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) writes: >Series III owners out there, let me know what you think of your all-synch gear >boxes...how strong they are...how easily the "synch"...how well they perform >off road...and their maintenance schedule. Great, 10, very easy (I downshift routinely --let the engine do the work), no complaints off-road, mainenance --see below. I've had a 1972 Series III for 13 some years. I've never had any problems with the gearbox, or needed to pause between shifting or double clutching (as per your earlier post). I did put a Bearmach overdrive into 'Ralph' early on, as I did more highway driving (to the ski slopes etc). I was told --by Scotty I believe-- that Bearmach had less of a tendancy to burn out than the Ferry ...I mean the Fairey that most people have. Also I did replace the carburetor with a 2 barrel Weber for better reliability, performance, mileage, ego, ...whatever. Ralph's previous conservator had mistreated him somewhat in off-road (?) shenanigans. In the first year or so my left axel broke (drivetrain fuse) and I had to get at the diferential to take out the broken stub. A few months later the other axel broke. I surmised both axels/drivetrain had been stressed previously as I had only been driving on roadways. Two or three years after that I was cruising on my way to my local pub when suddenly an intense cracking and grinding sound came out of my