From Nobody Home Tue Oct 31 10:45:23 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:45:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Nobody Home Subject: Discovery Project Hello! I am a 3rd year student at Civentry University and for my honours project I am analysing the "Success of the Discovery". I will be looking at the Disco in terms of the Product itself, the price, promotion,etc.etc., so the project will have a marketing slant. I thought this an appropriate subject to cover as I drive a LR/RR hybrid off-road at the weekends. If anyone has got any information on anything to do with the Discovery or even wish to express their personal opinion on the vehicle I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL!!! It may take me a while to reply but your help would be appreciated. Please email me: Helen>>>> hec2@coventry.ac.uk ***************************************************************************** __ Nobody home and _,~/ ) No books to read O_ ^\/ `- - . `~\ `@ What about the pig? ;, ,_( ; //_/ //_/ What about it? hec2@coventry.ac.uk ***************************************************************************** From Lloyd Allison Tue Oct 31 22:29:16 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:29:16 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Landy/BMW and US army Rovers LROC printed a letter from LR to an oz business telling them to stop using the name, but although it was doubtless upsetting in that it was a change in the status quo, it was quite reasonable in tone - like I might get ****** off if someone had been using my name for profit for a long time. The implication seemed to be that they could "do a deal" but there might be $ involved and quality could be an issue. Clubs commonly have permission, sometimes written (!) to use the LR logo, for example. Intent, hurt and profit are definitely part of copyright law. There was also a report that LR had put the hard word on Dipstick's (the cartoon) author - which I find very hard to believe as I would have thought that LR-BMW would have no leg to stand on? Can anyone confirm this? [Who, me paranoid about copyright?] Mind you, Bill Spear tells me that Harley D want to copyright the exhaust note of their bikes! Maybe LR could copyright an oil-stain? I have read, but it could be a conspiracy-theory, that car companies are looking at using copyright of their designs to prevent non-standard spares being made and sold. How do the US military LRs compare with the UK SAS and with the oz Perentie http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Perentie/index.html [Isuzu 3.9D, turbo in 6x6, 4x4 modified D110, 6x6 mostly "new".] Lloyd From Tom Stevenson Tue Oct 31 11:45:05 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 11:45:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Re: Soccer practice... >You're absolutely right, of course. LR's are *very* versatile. >However, if [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen >know." The alternative strategy is to sell some of the children for scientific experiments in order to finance the running of the Land Rover. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From "John J. Tackley" Tue Oct 31 07:23:55 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 07:23:55 -0500 From: "John J. Tackley" Subject: Def 110 4sale - NOT! I called that Alaska number to get some details about the 100 mil spec '92 110's 4sale and I spoke with Jake. Jake says that after 8 months of dicking around with the EPA, that they have given up selling any of these vehicles into the US. He did say that they were working on fulfilling an order from someone in the US Virgin Islands though, so there is a chance that you rovers outside the US can still cop the deal. He did take my name and number 'just in case'. I will let the digest know if I hear from Jake, but don't hold your collective breath.......... BTW, as an aside to Malcom at the EPA, any truth to this story from your perspective????????And have you sold that beautiful 109 yet??? John J. Tackley From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Tue Oct 31 08:26:00 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 08:26:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: re:Hams [snip...] Sorry for interrupting, but as a non-native English-speaking uhh typing member of the list, could any one explain to me what a ham radio is? I assume its not the kind of ham one gets from the local butcher though? Or did I miss a thread about new technologies were they import ham from Tjernobyl and convert them to transistors in implement them in new car hifi? [...unsnip] It's a nickname for Amateur Radio operators. My father (VE1KG) is a big ham :-) and by his setup, I refer to him as the blow-torch of the Atlantic. Actually he likes lower power and more antennae. Most hams I know really like to get their hands dirty in the electronics which is probably why they are also associated with LRs. Could be that they see Lucas wiring as a challenge that must be taken head on! Cheers, -Christian P.S. Dixon, I believe you were the closest. When I went to sleep it was 50.6 vs. 49.4 for the Non. --------------- Christian Szpilfogel Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 31 95 Oct EST 1908 Date: 31 Oct 95 8:47:17 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: re:Hams >Most hams I know really like to get their hands dirty in the electronics >which is probably why they are also associated with LRs. Could be that >they see Lucas wiring as a challenge that must be taken head on! >Cheers, > -Christian As a ham, I have a sincere fondness for the old tube-type gear, most of which is hand-wired with cotton-covered wire from which the color codes have long since faded. It's incredibly tough for its design, but crotchety and difficult to get parts for except from specialist dealers. See a resemblance yet? 8*> Alan/N1TWY Also with a 2-meter rig in the Rover.... From "John C. White III" Tue Oct 31 05:59:23 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 05:59:23 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Discovery Woes Roy, "Ham" radio is a nickname for "amateur" radio. "Ham operators" are licensed for some of the shortwave bands. I don't know the exact radio frequencies that are involved as I am not a ham. I'm sure one of the other LROs who is a ham and maybe a bad actor (another type of ham) will be happy to give more details. Cheer! John '95 Discovery, also scarred San Francisco, California On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 wassili@AMC.UVA.NL wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] > ( o ) ( o ) From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Oct 31 10:15:10 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:15:10 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: More Paint Codes Paint code from Sherwin Williams Automotive Finishes for Marine Blue is J5-6118 00. This is the Acrylyd finish. I tried the synthetic and it was off by about 1 million shades. Chris Stevens Beckett Klay 100 West Road Suite 300 Baltimore, MD 21294 USA (410) 583-6146 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Treit Le 31 95 Oct 1910 Date: 31 Oct 95 10:23:50 From: Treit Le Subject: 7500 warranty I called up 3 dealers in my area and found that the 7500 mile service on a '95 Classic runs $45-54. Are all the services subsidized and equally cheap? Can you have multiple 7500 mile services? Like every 3,000 miles for instance? From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Oct 31 09:05:01 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 09:05:01 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: 109 pulled the RR through the mountains... SLOW FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: 109 pulled the RR through the mountains... SLOW Just thought I'd let you all know that the 109 performed flawlessly as it churned, chugged, and guzzled gas pulling the RR up the mountains from Phoenix to Flagstaff Arizona (USA). What would normally have taken me a little less than 3 hours took 5 hours. I was passed by *every* semi on the road. The slowest *long* hill required 2nd gear, and even at that, it was lugging, and the only thing that kept me from downshifting to first was the fact that I didn't want to lose my momentum! In a 150 mile trip, I used almost 25 gallons of fuel! This was serious work for the old gal! On the way back, I met up with Gerry and James, and we did a bit of wheeling. I crossed my first river with the 109, around 30" deep! Ahem... I mean, 2.5 meters! Oops! Make that .75 meter! (This metric stuff is gonna burn me sometime, like when I try to order a quantity of cement or something...) But the fact that Gerry's Disco had a winch made it easier to go for it. We also traveled on many miles of washboard road. Poor old gal got the *%$ shaken out of her. When I got back, I hosed off the frame, and found a *great* deal of rust flakes inside the frame. (Poked my finger through a drain hole to discover about a half inch, 15 cm... make that mm of rust flakes!) This frame's even worse than I thought. But I have a line on a good, used, rust free frame that I'm going to look at this weekend. Also, the exhaust pipe to manifold had rattled loose, and when I tried to tighten it, 2 of the 3 studs broke off. (Darn rust!) So I had to take off the intake and exhaust manifolds off, and will be taking them in to be drilled out and retapped, probably with a US standard thread. I don't think I posted this earlier, but in case I have, sorry... my memory is *so* bad that... I forgot what I was going to say.... ;) Sorry to hear about James! I don't know what happened... I tried to call him twice, but he wasn't in the first time, and was on the phone the second time... I'll keep trying. Meanwhile, he's in my prayers. Have fun! Dave (wet behind the ears) Brown. #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right (rust bucket frame) #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Mike Kneafsey <73407.1504@compuserve.com> 31 95 Oct EST 1911 Date: 31 Oct 95 11:31:23 EST From: Mike Kneafsey <73407.1504@compuserve.com> Subject: D90 For Sale in Tulsa Saw a D90 with 900 miles at Clark Motor Cars in Tulsa. I believe they were asking $25,600. This was the first I have seen in Tulsa. Someday I still hope to save my pennies for a 109. Mike Kneafsey From skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Tue Oct 31 11:54:08 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 11:54:08 -0500 From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest re: >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:57:51 +0100 >From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Need help with 2.25 Diesel: smoking when idle >Hello! >Whe I got my SIIa 109 (1968) about 3 years ago the engine was the >only part working fine. >This changed last fall. >Hello! >It is now nearly impossible tho start when the temperature goes below >5 Deg Celsius, the engine smokes REALY MUCH when idle or going >downhill. and >From: Mike Rooth >Subject: Re: Need help with 2.25 Diesel: smoking when idle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >totally worn out,and smoked all the time like a factory chimney. >You dont say whether the engine will turn in cold weather,and Gentlemen; I can't speak preceisely to the LR diesel, as I have a D90 (which is still in the delaer waiting in the arrival of a "tail shaft"), but I did own a Volkswagen Quantum Turbodiesel for about 7 years, during which time I logged about 100k miles. I learned the hard way about the "glow-plugs", having spent several hours sitting in a parking lot trying to start the bugger, even after getting a jump. After the second year of this happening (usually coincident with the first winter-like day), I started having the glow plugs changed every September. Didn't have any problem after that. Just figured that instead of doing tuneups every 12k miles, I had to change those plugs once per year. It was better to spend the approx $US 250 to have a mechanic do it (VW had the terrible habbit of putting these plugs behind the injector pump, out of reach!) than to be stranded somewhere. From skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Tue Oct 31 12:01:02 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 12:01:02 -0500 From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest >>From: Mike Rooth >Subject: Re: Need help with 2.25 Diesel: smoking when idle >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 11:05:32 GMT >....Also,a good lorry drivers tip,given to me by innumerable truckers >when I first got my Oily Wadder was "Keep the fuel tank WELL full >in cold weather,to prevent fuel waxing".If the fuel waxes up it >*wont* start. Another trick is to add about 1 gal of kerosene per every 15 gal of diesel. This will prevent the waxing (or gel'ing) of the diesel by lowering its freezing point, kerosene being the Artic substitute for diesel! >Check the condition of the air cleaner.Diesels need *loads* of >air,and a clogged air cleaner doesnt help.Just take the large [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >to get the ones you have cleaned and set up,by a competant diesel >place.All the specs are in the Genuine Parts manual. agreed - I learned by ignorance that my neglect of the fuel filter contributed directly to glow plug failure - the crud was being sprayed out the injector, and causing the plug to short! >Like you,ny distributor pump has no adjustment left clockwise.I'm >very much afraid that this is a result of the skew gear being worn. >Although you *could* try a new timing chain,it cant hurt. Can't speak to adjusting the pump - that kind of stuff has too many negative implications of done wrong, and my luck was never that consistently good (until I got my Land Rover!) Good Luck- Bill Skidmore From Guydell@aol.com Tue Oct 31 12:07:32 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 12:07:32 -0500 From: Guydell@aol.com Subject: RE: Heater vents/controls '90 RR I have the same problem with lack of hot air flow through the fascia vents in my 90 RR County. Seems like an unusual feature! Also, my fan does not blow at the intermediate speed and the dealer diagnosed it as a defective resistor pack (which is under the cowl panel according to the shop manual, I think?). I am getting ready to pull apart the dash to attempt a fix of one or more problems. Does anyone have experience under a 90 RR dash? The RR shop manual is pretty nebulous about these matters. Regards, Guy della-Cioppa 90 RR County (Beluga black) 66 VW Camper 50 Plymouth P-19 fastback (and two other insignificant daily drivers) From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Oct 31 11:17:49 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 11:17:49 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Re: 109..... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Re: 109..... Thanks Alan, I'm sure that it's because of the load and the mountains. I "normally" get around 17mpg or so. It is a webber single barrel. Kind of hard to check it with any accuracy, the speedometer is broken. :( It is also calibrated in kilometers/hour, and I live in the world of "miles/hour". I'd like to try the webber 2-barrel sometime. Might give a bit more power?? Have you heard from anyone with a 2bbl? Thanks, Dave Brown ?? Anyone have a speedometer they'd like to part with?? (Series IIa) _______________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------- Will take metric or american. Working or not. #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill *** Forwarding note from MAILER --PABVMSYS 10/31/95 10:04 *** ========================================================================= From Sanna@aol.com Tue Oct 31 13:24:30 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:24:30 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Heater vents/controls '90 RR --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Heater vents/controls '90 RR From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 31 95 Oct EST 1913 Date: 31 Oct 95 13:47:55 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Bogus idle when cold - any hints? My 109 has an odd problem when started on a cold(er) morning. With the choke, er, cold start control pulled to close the butterfly and kick up the idle it starts fine, but after idling a few minutes, it seems to load up with gas and stall. Subsequent restarts exhibit the same behaviour until the engine is well and truly warmed up. As I am one of those types who believe in warming up a car in the winter without babysitting it, I don't like this. Any suggestions as to a cure (other than yanking the Weber and putting on a heater-equipped Zenith)? -Alan From KKelly6788@aol.com Tue Oct 31 14:38:39 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:38:39 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Land Rover Name in North America As a 10 year plus member of the BMW Car Club of America (#50039) I know what BMW/Land Rover is doing in North America with the Land Rover name. About 9 years ago BMW got real aggressive with protecting their name in North America. The formal company line was that they did not want consumers to confuse a non-authorized BMW dealer, repair facility, parts source with one of the authorized BMW of North America dealers. This was a pain for the many people that had to change the name of their business, but it was not a big deal for the typical BMW owner. Some examples of what BMWNA forced people to do by threatening litigation are: The BMWCCA became the BMWspaceCCA The BMW CCA had to remove the BMW Roundel from the cover of its magazine Many of the local club chapters had to change their logos and newsletter names "Berkeley BMW Salvage" had to change its name to "Berkeley Salvage" specializing in BMW's These are just a couple of examples I personally remember, there were hundreds more. Kevin Kelly From Duncan Brown Tue Oct 31 14:54:25 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Bogus idle when cold - any hints? Alan, > My 109 has an odd problem when started on a cold(er) morning. With the choke, > er, cold start control pulled to close the butterfly and kick up the idle it > starts fine, but after idling a few minutes, it seems to load up with gas and > stall. Done exactly as you describe it, this is what I'd expect. > Subsequent restarts exhibit the same behaviour until the engine is well and > truly warmed up. As I am one of those types who believe in warming up a car in > the winter without babysitting it, I don't like this. Any suggestions as to a > cure (other than yanking the Weber and putting on a heater-equipped Zenith)? What you want is an automatic choke! There is an optimum position of the choke for any given engine temperature. When the engine is stone cold on a really cold morning, that position is pretty much closed. When the engine is fully warmed up, that positiion is fully open. As the engine is in between those extremes, so too does the optimum choke position change. If you just leave your choke full on, then the engine doesn't have to warm up very much (not even registering on the scale, perhaps) before that choke position is WAYYYY too rich. SO it loads up with gas and stalls. But taking the choke off too soon leaves the mixture too lean...which might actually be OK at idle, but it's generally not going to idle fast enough before it's warm. (See previous thread about hand throttles for one solution to this problem!) So if you truly want a vehicle you can start and leave alone in the driveway for minutes while it warms up, you need something with an automatic choke...which I've never seen for a Series Rover (short of a Chevy V-6 or Rover V-8 conversion!) It's probably worth pointing out here that warming a vehicle up like that wastes gas, pollutes the environment needlessly, etc. Half a minute or less of warmup and attentive adjustment of the choke as the vehicle warms up while you drive it down the road is the "best" approach. (If I totally misunderstood what you were saying, you already know how chokes work, and you find the preceding patronizing, please forgive me!) Duncan From rob_hooper@om.cv.hp.com Tue Oct 31 11:04:12 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 11:04:12 -0800 From: rob_hooper@om.cv.hp.com Subject: Solex Carb Throttle Shaft "Bushings" TO: lro@Land-Rover.team.net ....................................................................... Item Subject: cc:Mail Text Inital submission bounced - once more ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ From K Schmidt Tue Oct 31 16:05:50 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 16:05:50 EST From: K Schmidt Subject: LR sighting in Nov Motor Trend For those who are in Noth America you should like this really cool picture... In the Nov issue of Motor Trend p149 there is a champion spark plug ad with a early series II LR slugging along in mud up to it's bumper. :) The LR has two jerry cans on it's bumper and has a canvas hood. Kurt Happy Halloween :~} From "Francis J. Twarog" Tue Oct 31 16:22:42 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:22:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Ramblings First - to Raoul Miller in Middlebury - those 3 110s you saw in Vermont etc. are all the same car! It was owned by a guy in New Hampshire (since new, I think) and sold in order to buy his new Def. 90 - a light blue County model that used to run around Nantucket by summer and Rover rallies the rest of the year. Next - anyone near Burlington,Vt that wants to join a couple of Rovers for some off roading this Thursday, please give me a call... (802) 864 - 0936. I think we'll either head out to Eagle's Ledge or maybe a trip further north... Last - TRIVIA!! Come and join the fun!! (thanks, Dixon, for making the only attempt to yesterday's). Anyway, today I have a few easy ones... First, on which side of the vehicle *should* the LR oval appear (in the rear) on a UK Landie? a US one? Australian? Next, what was the code name for North American spec Range Rovers in 1987? 1989? Frank Twarog Burlington, VT From Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand) Tue Oct 31 13:55:15 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:55:15 -0800 From: Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand) Subject: Re: 110's Speaking of Defender 110's for sale. I saw an add for one in this past weeks AutoWeek mag. I called up the dealer heres what they said: 1993 Defender 110 ~28,000 miles $44,500.00 Just how bad do you want one ? He seemed a bit miffed when I laughed at the price. Perhaps someone in the southern New Jersey area could drop by the dealer and let us know what kind of condition a 110 needs to be in to warrant that asking price. Cherry Hill Imports (New Jersey) Phone number - 609-665-5370 Enjoy Doug From Dixon Kenner Tue Oct 31 16:56:38 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:56:38 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Ramblings On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Francis J. Twarog wrote: > Last - TRIVIA!! Come and join the fun!! (thanks, Dixon, for making the > only attempt to yesterday's). Anyway, today I have a few easy ones... > First, on which side of the vehicle *should* the LR oval appear (in the > rear) on a UK Landie? a US one? Australian? UK = Left Canada = Right Basically, on the passenger side because the license plate goes on the drivers side, putting it out in traffic where the local constabulary can see it better. Maybe the UK has regs for the placement of the front plate, but over here they appear every where in the front. Have seen them on left & right wings, on the grille, and various places on & above the front bumper. From Jon Humphrey Tue Oct 31 17:31:59 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 17:31:59 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Ramblings Frank wants to know; Last - TRIVIA!! Come and join the fun!! (thanks, Dixon, for making the only attempt to yesterday's). Anyway, today I have a few easy ones... First, on which side of the vehicle *should* the LR oval appear (in the rear) on a UK Landie? a US one? Australian? Next, what was the code name for North American spec Range Rovers in 1987? 1989? Ovals on UK LR is on the left. Ovals on US LR is on the right Ovals on Austr.is on your forehead. 87-89 RR were called Vogues Howzat? Jon From John Brabyn Tue Oct 31 15:21:51 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:21:51 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: RE: Heater vents/controls '90 RR On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 Guydell@aol.com wrote: > I have the same problem with lack of hot air flow through the fascia vents in > my 90 RR County. Seems like an unusual feature! Also, my fan does not blow [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > problems. Does anyone have experience under a 90 RR dash? The RR shop > manual is pretty nebulous about these matters. I've torn my 89 dash apart and it's pretty straightforward but tedious. In the initial step you remove the vents (pop out from top or bottom) and the clock and mirror control. The clock is very stubborn and requires a bit of patience and brute force. That exposes all the screws and every layer you remove exposes more screws. Good luck! Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From JCassidyiv@aol.com Tue Oct 31 18:24:44 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:24:44 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Old Man EMU springs Just received my set of Old Man EMU springs from Rover's North for my 1987 RR. They were $70/each. I got a set of #757 for the front and #758 for the rear. These, along with the polyurethane bushings, and the new shocks, should make all the difference. I'll let you all know. Cheers! John From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Tue Oct 31 15:08:50 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:08:50 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Camel Trophy '95 Video I just saw the CT95 video on ESPN2 today (I played hookey this morning to see it). What fun! They covered the tryouts in Colorado this February to the Mundo Maya this summer. I was a bit disappointed they didn't show the manual vertical hoisting of a Disco from a ditch but overall it was pretty good coverage. As an added bonus, LRNA ran sevaral Disco ads: the elephant car wash carrying your offspring (which is pretty funny) CT mud splash/"I have to go potty" That makes tape # 2 in my Discovery video library. _____ /___|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ 6405 235th Place SW |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043 | _| | | _ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ \_/ From Dixon Kenner Tue Oct 31 19:43:34 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Off-topic I know, but terrific news! Premier Parizeau, leader of the seperatist Parti Quebecois has resigned! Good riddance... Oh yeah, compulsory LR content. Chopped off a plough harness for the 109 Sunday off one of my 88's. Generator uses a double pully arrangement so the hydraulic pump works. Now to repair lower portion of the harness and figure out how to keep it from moving around too much (It had been welded on. The blue wrench solved this aspect of the problem) From "Craig R. Jett" Tue Oct 31 19:43:05 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:43:05 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: RE: 110's clip Speaking of Defender 110's for sale. I saw an add for one in this past weeks AutoWeek mag. I called up the dealer heres what they said: 1993 Defender 110 ~28,000 miles $44,500.00 Just how bad do you want one ? He seemed a bit miffed when I laughed at the price. Cherry Hill Imports (New Jersey) Phone number - 609-665-5370 Enjoy Doug unclip I've test driven this 110. It's in perfect shape, Never off road, if = you can believe. They've had it at least 10 months, just sitting there = on the lot, such a waste. Anyway, they were asking $48,000 for it then. = Don't feel bad Doug, I laughed also. Maybe if we wait another 10 years = the price might be right. Craig Jett 95 Disco From Julianbak@eworld.com Tue Oct 31 19:07:24 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:07:24 -0800 From: Julianbak@eworld.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest I am not sure that Land Rover has abandoned the US Series LR market altogether - even before they re-entered the US market they established a close relationship with Rovers North - as I understand it - just to support series LR owners. Julian Baker, '66 series 11A 88 ----------------------------- Begin Original Text ----------------------------- The company (Land Rover/BMW) attitude to the use of the name seems to be hardening. ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- From Brian Neill Tiedemann Wed Nov 1 14:23:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:23:41 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: tyres, disco woes Hi all, Reading these posts concerning tyre sizes prompts me to type... I offer a little info on what the tyre sizes actually mean. The various manufacturers tend to label the real thing somewhat loosely, so for example some 7.50 16 s are larger in rolling diameter than others... Anyhow, one ROUGH idea coming right up: Sizes of the form 7.50 16, 7.00 16, 8.25x16, 750R16, 10.50 20 etc. First number is the tyre tread width in inches, the second is the rim diameter suited to the tyre. The overall height of the tyre can be simply arrived at, as the "profile" of this type of tyre is normally 100% (sidewall is as high as tread is wide). Overall rolling diameter= 2X(first number) + (second number) eg. A 7.50 16 SAT is approximately (2X7.5) + 16 = 31" tall (actually closer to 32" but you were warned). Some tyres come with the sizes simply stated in inch measures: 33X12.5X15, 9X34X16LT etc. Still others come in the dreaded Metric (ish) measures such as 225 75 16 or 235 85 16... The first number is the tread width in millimetres, the second is the profile (percentage), and the third is the rim diameter (inches). Now the profile number is simply an expression of how high a tyre's sidewall is as a percentage of its tread width. This means that a 235 85 16, for example, has a 235mm tread width, and a sidewall which is 85% as high as the tread is wide (0.85X235=199.75mm). Now cos I speyk um betta sumtimz, inches: 235mm=9.25" and 199.75mm=7.86" (or so), and by the same reasoning as above, overall rolling diameter is: 2X7.86 +16 =31.73" So in reality a 235 85 is near as dammit to a 9X32X16, and a 7.50 is just a bit skinnier and depending who makes it, possibly smaller diameter. In all of the above, letters are often mixed to and fro: R-Radial ply construction. LT-Light Truck. 7.50 16 type sizes are usually bias ply (rag) tyres unless there appears an R in these somewhere. Tyres usually have a "Ply Rating" moulded somewhere into them also. This is not necessarily the number of plys used, but an equivalent load rating. This number gives an idea of sidewall stiffness and durability: too stiff may never get spiked, but will ride like a series LR :) and be next to useless to "air down", too weak and sidewalls will develop bubble like lumps after impacts with logs or rocks, and spike all too easily. I'll try to dig out the recommended rim widths for various common tyres if people are interested.... Trivia: Silverstone make a thing called an MT117 in 235 85 16 !! Might just be the replacement for my Super Swampers...wassat 34X11 ish :) Tread is like an SAT, but one zigzag down the middle, then herring bone. Tread depth at shallowest point is in the order of 20mm (3/4"). Handling is supposed to be MUCH better than SS on road, and as capable as 9X34X16 SS offroad.... This is second hand, I am yet to see or drive a set. I have a faxed picture and the first set is around on a LC I think, others to follow (new import line for the local Silverstone wing). Small drawback: WILL NOT fit in a standard Disco wheel arch.... oh well, I don't own one anyway, and my RR is, well, modified anyway. To the guy with the Disco stalling woes in humid weather, check and clean the contact areas of all the fuses and fusible links you can lay eyes on, and ensure that the inside of fuseboxes is dry... maybe a pack of silica gel or some other dessicant. This should help to prevent contact corrosion in humid conditions. I know that glass fuses often suffer like this, as do the silly little ceramic ones with conical pads at each end- I think these are Joe's pride and joy! Blade type fuses should be less prone, as the mechanical contact is the same as a traditional spade lug. Still, easy to check and if need be fix. EFI computer if you have one, is another good place to look for dirty contacts- in fact the whole efi system. Just Ideas, Good Luck! Brian. 77 RR From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Oct 31 22:28:12 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:28:12 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Missing rovers Set the VCR to record the ESPN Camel Trophy thing today, but got ice hockey and mountain biking instead. Was it on ESPN-2? Checked out the November issues of "Four Wheeler" and "Off Road" for the rhino-chasing-Rover calendar, but couldn't find it in either. Is it a pull-out??...maybe they had already been nicked by the time I got there. The Rovers advertised from the Big Sky company should remain *missing*. (I used his tape to record -or try to- the Camel Trophy.) Reviewed it just before erasing it...just bombed, burnt-out, shot-up and tank-trashed hulks, not one of which was considered to be driveable. Might be able to build one out of three or so, as long as one didn't mind the extra ventialtion provided by all the .50 cal bullet holes. Caveat emptor! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John C. White III" Tue Oct 31 19:30:02 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:30:02 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: 7500 warranty I've read here on the List that the 15,000 service runs about US$250. Since the LRNA and its dealerships are in business to make money, you can bet that the cheap 7500 mile service is a one-shot deal. What you might consider is changing your oil at mid points between services. If you don't do this yourself, you can go to one of the while-you-wait places, but be prepared to have to bring an oil and/or air filter from the dealer with you. This turns out to be a rip-off (about $35 for both of them), but the oil-changer places around here don't know from newer Land Rovers, so the dealers have us by the giblets on these. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On 31 Oct 1995, Treit Le wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I called up 3 dealers in my area and found that the 7500 mile service on a '95 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Classic runs $45-54. Are all the services subsidized and equally cheap? Can you > have multiple 7500 mile services? Like every 3,000 miles for instance? From Dixon Kenner Tue Oct 31 22:58:32 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 22:58:32 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 Julianbak@eworld.com wrote: > I am not sure that Land Rover has abandoned the US Series LR market > altogether - even before they re-entered the US market they established a > close relationship with Rovers North - as I understand it - just to support > series LR owners. They dumped NA like a hot potato in '74. For years it was almost impossible to get parts or suppport. Their abandonment of NA lead to the initial creation of many of the older Land Rover clubs, just to keep their vehicles on the road, and the creation of ABP first in NY, then in Quebec and California to supply aftermarket parts to Land Rover owners. RN is a much newer company than many clubs etc, but were the first to strike up a relationship with LR(UK) for Series parts From "John C. White III" Tue Oct 31 19:59:11 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 19:59:11 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy '95 Video Any chance of getting a copy of the tape, Bob? We don't get ESPN-2 in my village of 6 million (San Francisco Bay Area). I'll of course pay for tape, shipping & handling, etc. Much obliged, John '95 Discovery On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I just saw the CT95 video on ESPN2 today (I played hookey this morning to see [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] > \_/ \_/ > \_/ From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Nov 1 14:51:10 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:51:10 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: High mileage. Is it a problem ? Doug asks: > 1.) One of the 110s I'm looking at has a pretty high mileage. 240000kms > (150,000 miles). Its a 1985 model Thats pretty high in 10 years. I'm wondering if the whole truck is about to expire in a fury of nasty noises ! Its does seem in good condition, just lots of miles. Well i'd sorta hoped someone else would deal with this one but... 1. I dont think 24K km per year is a lot for a 4x4 in australia, a little more than average but not a lot. Our 12/82 built stage 1 has close to 400K ( maybe more the speedo didnt work for a year or so) As to problems well the cam/lifters/rocker gear is likely to be hosed, ours certainly is and I'd expect that the transfer case would need re-shimming. Motors typically go past 300K but it depends a lot on maintainance and what you are prepared to put up with in the way of rattles and fuel consumption, my stage 1 is pushing to break 15 mpg, a friend with a recon exchange motor (~$2K) figures on 19-21 mpg. > A friend has a 30 year old IIa 109 thats only done 116000 miles, and > they've used it pretty heavily. Its only just run in doug.......:) > Whats the expected lifetime of such things as diffs, gearbox and > engine (V8) if we assume they've been adequately maintained ? V8's common;ly mid 300's but.... Ymmv as low as high 100's and as high as 900K are reports i've heard. The salisbury diff will likely go forever provided that it gets an oil change occasionally and doesnt ingest water. the rover diff dont really know depends on use/abuse.. maybe 3-500K???? second hand or recon units shouldnt be too hard to find. the g/box and transfer variable, heard of problems within 150K, also know of others well into 500's with only re-shimming of the transfers... Your best bet would be to get a reputable rover specialist check out the vehicle. Having not owneFrom LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Nov 01 03:12:30 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 03:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Landy/BMW and US army Rovers Lloyd sez... > the exhaust note of their bikes! Maybe LR could copyright > an oil-stain? / Harley *did* copyright their exhaust sound about a month ago. Besides Harley's sound, I think that about 17 or 18 other sounds have been copyrighted. It's getting so you can't pass gas without having to pay some bozo a royalty... Cheers Mike From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 01 95 Nov EST 1905 Date: 01 Nov 95 05:09:44 EST From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: 1988 Range Rover for sale 1988 Range Rover for sale for $12,950. It has 115k miles but is in excellent condition. I live near Fredricksburg VA off I -95, between Washington DC and Richmond VA. I am NOT anxious to sell. Cheers Cliff From Gary Mitchelson Wed Nov 01 08:58:41 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 08:58:41 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Camel Trophy '95 Video -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > Subject: Re: Camel Trophy '95 Video > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Any chance of getting a copy of the tape, Bob? We don't get ESPN-2 in my > village of 6 million (San Francisco Bay Area). I'll of course pay for tape, > shipping & handling, etc. > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net I taped it yesterday. If anyone can dup it I am willing to send them my copy >. -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com From lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Wed Nov 01 09:30:59 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 09:30:59 EST From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Subject: Re[2]: Ramblings I believe the code name for the 1987 and 1988 US spec Range Rovers was the Eagle. Mike > Subject: Re: Ramblings > Author: Jon Humphrey at inetmail [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] > Howzat? > Jon From "John C. White III" Wed Nov 1 06:42:25 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 06:42:25 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy '95 Video Thanks, Gary. I've already got a copy coming. Maybe some else out there in Roverland will want a copy. Many thanks, John From Dixon Kenner Wed Nov 1 10:13:15 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:13:15 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: The RoverWeb has moved to a new home. Many years ago TerriAnn wrote a short 12k file about the Land Rover for the British Cars mailing list. Little did she know that this file would eventually form the basis of a much larger document and a World Wide Web site. About three/four years ago, I took TerriAnn's short document and wrote the first Land Rover FAQ. Over subsequent months, the FAQ grew until it stabilised at approximately 99k. Later, Greg Hiner took this version of the FAQ, and a longer (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover owners on the Internet. Eventually, time restraints, load restrictions, etc. on the first RoverWeb site grew to an extent where the site had to be moved. At this time, both Ray Harder and I volunteered. After some discussion, it was agreed that Ray would take over the site, put time and effort into the RoverWeb, and help it grow further. Ray's efforts have created the best source of Land Rover information on the InterNet. The RoverWeb even managed to get publicised briefly in the latest edition of Land Rover World where it is described as "the tip for lots of stuff on specifications, parts, general maintenance etc etc is the following address: http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/." It has also been described as the premier Rover site on the InterNet by others. Lately, time constraints have eaten into the time that Ray has available to maintain the site and it became necessary to move the site yet again. I and Ben Smith have volunteered to take over the RoverWeb and given it a new home. After several weeks of work, Ben and I can happily announce that it is ready in its new home. As of this morning, the RoverWeb has been moved to a new site. The RoverWeb now sits beside the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers web site, which itself carries a great amount of information (Hey, every club seems to be getting into the WWW trip, so we figured that it was about time the largest and oldest Canadian club got its Internet act together... :-)) The FAQ has again been expanded to where it is now approximately 270k in size. Many portions have been completely rewritten and greatly expanded. The Clubs section allows users to jump to other Land Rover club web sites here they are known to exist. Club information, while still incomplete, has been expanded to give more known information about existing, or past Land Rover, or Rover clubs. New sections have been added, such as the Guide to Identifying Land Rovers, production data etc. The URL's for the two new sites are: The official OVLR page http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/ The new RoverWeb http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/ Come check out the new OVLR and RoverWeb site. Regards, Dixon Kenner From Easton Trevor Wed Nov 01 10:20:00 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 10:20:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: LR Ovals US Right Canada Right Australia Either UK The Oval is in North London (Marylebone Cricket Club) Trevor Easton From lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Wed Nov 01 09:50:28 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 09:50:28 EST From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Subject: Re: Range Rover Brake Squeal Someone posted a message last week on using some shims (or shim material) available from import auto stores in the US. I have lost my copy of that message and would like to follow up. If anyone out there still has a copy would they please forward it to me. Sorry for any inconvenience. Regards Mike Lenaghan 87 Range Rovers (2) From "Ahmad Ijaz" Wed Nov 1 08:58:56 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:58:56 CDT From: "Ahmad Ijaz" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Camel Trophy 95 will be shown on regular ESPN twice around the end of November, I think its 28th and 30th. You can call ESPN at 203-585- 2236 for a recorded viewer info. service. I too could not find any pull-out calender in November issue of Four Wheeler. From Sanna@aol.com Wed Nov 1 10:52:25 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:52:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Heater vents/controls '90 RR >>I have the same problem with lack of hot air flow through the fascia vents in my 90 RR County. Hot air is not supposed to flow through the facia vents, only rammed air fresh or A/C. The A/C system is completely seperate from the heating system. The dash of your RR is essentially a hollow chamber from the passenger door to the steering wheel, and then a flexible tube connects this chamber to the far left dash vent (The tube resistance is why the A/C air coming from the far right vent is so feeble. Someone online here solved the problem with a 2" auxilliary fan spliced inline.) There are two hefty fans that scoop up the air around the front seat passenger's knees, cool it and then blow it through the hollow dash and out the facia vents. The reason you don't have a glove box is because that's where the A/C element is. On most American cars the A/C & heated air paths are mixed, so during cool damp weather you can heat the air conditioned air to get warm, dry air for rapid defogging. You can't do that on the RR, so that's why they added that strange setting on the controls that blows freezing dry air out the facia vents along with hot air out the heater or defroster. Don't get intimidated by stripping the dash. It's really pretty easy, and for the most part just screws. Good luck. - Tony From Sanna@aol.com Wed Nov 1 10:58:56 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:58:56 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Heater vents/controls '90 RR >>The clock is very stubborn and requires a bit of patience and brute force. No, no! On an '89 the clock is a piece of cake, it's the mirror controls that require the brute force. From Sanna@aol.com Wed Nov 1 11:03:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:03:23 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Camel Trophy Video If anyone out there is duping this tape, maybe they could survey this group for additional videos. I'd be willing to buy one. And if there were enough people interested, it might pay to have a video duping service do it instead of copying it one tedious tape at a time. I've seen prices in quantities down to $3 a copy. From BobandSueB@aol.com Wed Nov 1 11:18:25 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:18:25 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: automatic choke for series Alan Richer asked,, From Erik Nystrom Wed Nov 01 09:26:36 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 09:26:36 -0700 From: Erik Nystrom Subject: US Discovery Tail Lamps '95 vs '96 I own a '95 Discovery and love it! My wife and I first saw a Discovery while vacationing in Europe two years earlier. We were so taken by the looks of the vehicle that we took many pictures of hoping to see one in the US and finally buy one. In November of '94 we bought ours and have taken it on many off road adventures, several on the 4wd only trails of Canyon Lands National Park here in Utah. I have looked at a 96 Discovery and have noticed that it has an amber turn indicator section in the rear tail lamp as did the Discos we saw in Europe. Our 95 doesn't. We want those tail lamps on our '95! Does anyone know the cost of the rear tail lamps with the amber turn indicator? When I asked our local dealer, they said that they don't have a '96 parts list or prices as yet. Thanks! Erik enystrom@innovusmm.com Utah USA 95 Discovery v8i From jpappa01@interserv.com Wed Nov 1 08:55:56 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 08:55:56 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE 4 SALE: 1993 NAS D110. #006/500. This was the first NAS D110 released for public sale. It has 15,000 miles. Has been stored over a year on blocks(!). Immaculate. Full waterproofs. Rear bed liner. Bonnet mounted spare conversion by Rovers North. 47,000 Firm. Never off-roaded. I know the owner and history of this vehicle. It has been over-maintained and detailed every time it has been in for service! A sick truck! Like its owner! He just bought land to build a house on and is raising cash. Already has a D90 Hardtop and other series landys. He asked me to help him sell his vehicle as he said he does not have time to deal with the phone calls! This 110 *IS NOT* being sold through the dealership. Serious inquiries can contact me at jpappa01@intserv.com or leave a message at 617-545-4743 and I'll return call. This is the nicest 110 I've seen (next to mine). Please to not clutter up this forum with flames about the price. D110s are going anywhere from 39900 to 48000 depending upon cosmetics and mileage. This one is outstanding on both accounts. The last D110 that Metro West sold was about 6 weeks ago. It had 21000 miles on the clock and was sold in two days for 46000. So the one I see posted in New Jersey doesn't look like such a bad deal - when placed in context! Supply and demand is the only refutable law of economics that I know of... Jim `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 Just received humongous ARB bumper and Warn winch combo for my D90. Plan to install w/110 coils in front and OME shocks all around. Will report to digest on outcome. Stupid new movie promo showing monster truck crushing a Series Landy. Totally outrageous! From Tim McDaniel Wed Nov 1 12:14:50 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:14:50 -0500 From: Tim McDaniel Subject: Tire information and other stuff On the subject of tire sizes/information, I believe that for metric sizes (235 85 R 16), the first number is interpreted as the tire's width at it's widest measurement. This is not always equal to the tread width. The actual tread width will be determined by the tire design and manufacturer. For stiffer sidewalls the number will be closer to the tread width than for soft sidewalls. The second number is the aspect ratio that uses the tire height and the above width. There are at least a couple of tire size calculators on the Web. You might want to check out the following: http://www.di.com/Talon/Fun/TireSize.html http://www.powerdog.com/tiresize.cgi Also, my recently acquired, unnamed Series III is not yet running. Turns great, but doesn't fire. Alan Richer is coming over on Saturday to give me a hand and help do a complete evaluation. Hopefully it'll be going (running anyway) by that night. Lastly, I sent off a FAX to Merseyside in Liverpool requesting a catalog/catalogue. Much to my surprise I received it within the week. It looks like it is called the Land Rover Supermarket now so I must have had out of date information...If anyone from the U.S. or Canada has had any recent experience in ordering from these folks, would you let me know how it went and what is involved in ordering from them and bringing parts over. I would be really interested in seeing a specific order that shows costs, plus the duty that had to be payed, and the shipping costs. A lot of the catalog prices are very good, but I don't know how to guage the final costs to the U.S. Thanks, Tim +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tim McDaniel (508) 937-3700 ext. 725 | | Adra Systems, Inc. (508) 453-2462 (FAX) | | 2 Executive Drive | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 mcdaniel@adra.com | | USA | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Nov 01 12:14:26 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 12:14:26 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: iNSPECTION Hooray! The Green Car finally passed inspection, and is now legal for a whole year. I'm so excited, I can't wait to take her apart again! Off my Rocker, Dave Bobeck 72 Ser III SWB- Green Car dbobeck@ushmm.org ps- the winch is coming along ok, thanks for everybody's help/advice. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 95 Nov EST 1912 Date: 1 Nov 95 12:40:02 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Shipping and handling costs: Whenever I've dealt with an offshore entity (as in the order for my carburettor), I have always gotten a quote from them including the cost of shipping and duty. My carb (again as an example) Weber carb: 50 pounds 3 brake hoses: 9 pounds Shipping & duty:25 pounds Showed up on my doorstep in 6 days air mail. Sea mail would've been cheaper, but I didn't want to wait. Re: as-yet-unnamed S.III: You must be desperate - you're letting me at it! aj"Pass the hammer"r From Sanjay Prasad Wed Nov 01 12:58:53 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 12:58:53 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: '95 Camel Trophy Video Hi, I am relatively new to this mailing list and saw the messages regarding the '95 Camel Trophy video. If anyone can get a copy of their video easily made I would be interested in getting a copy. Of course I'll pay for the tape, shipping, handling, etc. Sanjay Prasad prasad@ba-iplaw.com Boston, Massachusetts 90 Range Rover From "John P. Casteel" <70472.557@compuserve.com> 01 95 Nov EST 1913 Date: 01 Nov 95 13:53:13 EST From: "John P. Casteel" <70472.557@compuserve.com> Subject: Old Man EMU springs From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Nov 1 11:11:03 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 11:11:03 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE In message <199511011701.MAA16386@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: > 4 SALE: ; > 1993 NAS D110. #006/500. This was the first NAS D110 released for public ; sale. > It has 15,000 miles. Has been stored over a year on blocks(!). : Never off-roaded. ; A 6 year old Land Rover that has not been off road and has spent a year of its existance sitting on blocks? ; In my book that qualifies as a crime against land Roverdom ; I'm VERY sorry to read about about a Land Rover so badly mistreated! I would have rather read about the expiditions it has been on, of panels scrapped getting badly needed supplies into a remote village, of the car working on a farm ANYTHING other than a Land Rover being treated like a bearer bond. Just another part of a person's investment portfolio! Discusting treatment of a Land Rover! TeriAnn From russ burns Wed Nov 1 12:08:46 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:08:46 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE Yea, I was kind of wondering who would be dumb enough to a rover on blocks, instead of putting the blocks inside, or driving over the blocks. (i like playing with blocks) Maybe we should start a NON-profit organization to buy up non-abused rovers and start abusing them like they deserve........ Russ At 11:11 AM 11/1/95 -0800, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >In message <199511011701.MAA16386@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >; >A 6 year old Land Rover that has not been off road and has spent a year of its >existance sitting on blocks? >; [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >another part of a person's investment portfolio! >Discusting treatment of a Land Rover! >TeriAnn From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 95 Nov EST 1915 Date: 1 Nov 95 15:40:52 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE > ...006/500 NAS 110... Sounds like one of my wife's limited-edition collector's dolls. What good is a Rover that you can't play with? I'll take my 109, thanks - plenty of dents and repairs and a story in every one. aj"Just say no tabula rasa Rovers..."r From "Tim Chapman" Thu Nov 2 08:11:47 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:11:47 +1000 From: "Tim Chapman" Subject: HAYNES Manuals Does any one know if Haynes have released a manual for the '94 3.9l Discovery? Regards, TC From "Jim Carius" Wed Nov 1 13:41:50 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:41:50 -0800 From: "Jim Carius" Subject: Defender 90 Prices After lusting for a Land Rover for 20 years, I'm almost ready to take the plunge. I'll probably end up looking for a decent older truck, but.... The Defender 90 looks pretty nice. Of course, there is one small problem ... they're one of the current 'trendy' cars here in Northern California, and the prices seem to be a little out of hand. I'm gonna try and see what I can do, but if anyone knows the approx. dealer cost for one of these beauties it'd sure help... Thanks! Jim Carius, LR Owner-to-be carius@gene.com From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 01 95 Nov EST 1916 Date: 01 Nov 95 16:29:23 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Old Man Emu Springs I have a 1990 RR that had developed the "Land Rover Lean" and so as soon as I saw that RN was selling the Emu springs, I decided to order a set. The installation is fairly straight forward. I did have a good bit of trouble with rusted fasteners. I ended up breaking a front shock trying to remove the lower nut (Not a big deal since I was replacing it anyway). The biggest problem by far though was the plate that holds the bottom of the rear springs to the axles. There are two bolts on each side that go into a nut plate welded to the axle. I used copious amounts of liquid wrench, along with a propane touch in order to remove them, and still ended up breaking two and having to drill them out. If it wasn't for these rear bolts, I could have easily done this is 3-4 hours, if not less, but it took two days instead. (I recently helped someone but the springs on a D90 and the design was changed so that there is no longer a nut plate, but I don't know when the design was changed). I also used a spring compressor, but if I had had an assistant I think I might have been able to do with out it. I also had a good bit of difficulty with the cotter pin on the upper rear shock mounts, they too had become fused to the mount due to rust. I have really been impressed with the ride that the new springs/shocks have given me. It is a good bit firmer than with the stock suspension, yet without becoming too harsh. (Of course anything is better compared to driving a series vehicle). These springs seem to be much more progressive than the stock springs also it has noticibly decreased my body roll. (I don't have sway bars) I would recommend to anyone installing these, that some sort of penetrant be applied to all the fasteners for a few days prior to installation especially on the older vehicles or those that have been in the salt belt. Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 01-Nov-1995 From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Nov 1 17:26:54 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 17:26:54 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: Solexes on v8 SUCK!!! Dear List: I Spent some time yesterday changing oils on Juan. The guys who sold it to me supposedly did a complete service on it before delivery. Well, the diffs produced grey watery foamy stuff, sludge came out of hub housings, distributor points were shot, and the cap/rotor/wires were of original vintage. Vel, are you listening? Anywho, the good news is that I like the Lucas distributor. It has that great movable plate that lets you adjust dwell angle externally while running. Good idea. I forgive them the F16 landing gear snafu. OTOH, the dual Solexes on the v8 are awful! I get better milage out of my 5.0 Bronco, and lots more torque. For C. sake, I had to choke the thingies to rev over 3,000 under load. My land speed record stands at 70 MPH. I KNOW the fireball can do better than that! Zo, any spare SU's out there? Any (1st hand only, svp) experience with the Offy or Edelbk and Holley? Or Webers? Dr. Hardcastle in his v8 book mentioned an Isky cam, that can be obtained for measly $94 US. Any before and after comments on that? Patiently awaiting your replies, Jan jib@big.att.com From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Nov 1 17:53:39 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:53:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Old news This may be old news to some, but a while back I mentioned that Land Rover World published a blurb about airbags being fitted to UK Defender 90s in 1997 (done to US spec.) and I went on to fantasize about those vehicles finding their way over here... well, a few sources have confirmed a strong rumor that the Defender 90 will return to the shores of North America in either 1997 or 1998. So, if you miss out on the last '95s, wait a year! To those who couldn't find the poster in Four Wheeler mag, it was found outside of the back cover wrapped in plastic along w/ the magazine itself. Also, keep up with that publication, because they took delivery of (another) Def 90 two months ago and planned on doing some modifications/ long term tests/ off-road reports on the vehicle in the coming months. Lastly, I can't remember if I told folks on the digest about a friend of mine who painted his 90's fiberglass hardtop to match his car (green w/ a white roof panel). I have to admit it did look superb!! If the paint holds up 6 months from now, I'm sure I'll be doing the same to our blue one. Frank Twarog Burlington, VT From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Nov 1 14:53:38 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 14:53:38 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Defender 90 Prices In message <199511012142.QAA16660@butler.uk.stratus.com> "Jim Carius" writes: ; ; After lusting for a Land Rover for 20 years, I'm almost ready to take the > plunge. I'll probably end up looking for a decent older truck, but.... ; > The Defender 90 looks pretty nice. ; > Of course, there is one small problem ... they're one of the current ; 'trendy' cars here in Northern California, and the prices seem to be a > little out of hand. I'm gonna try and see what I can do, but if anyone ; knows the approx. dealer cost for one of these beauties it'd sure > help... ; When they sell that last 500 of them out, you won't be able to purchase a new one period, so I wouldn't wait too long. I suspect that knowing the end of US Defender availability is coming dealers may be a little less apt to discount the cars. If I didn't already have a 109 I would be driving around in a yellow D90 with black steel wheels wondering how to mount that roof tent. ; While many people seem to collect several members of a model I just can't seem to justify two cars with the same basic role to play in my life. But I can justify a Land Rover and a TR3 because they are both very different cars best at very different things. I think I can justify a TR4 addition because with roll up windows, dual speed wipers & snugger fitting top it is a better bad weather car than the TR3. ; have desire, will rationalize ; TeriAnn From John Brabyn Wed Nov 1 15:33:12 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:33:12 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Old Man Emu Springs On 1 Nov 1995, Robert Dennis wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I have a 1990 RR that had developed the "Land Rover Lean" and so as soon as I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > I have a 1990 RR that had developed the "Land Rover Lean" and so as soon as I > saw that RN was selling the Emu springs, I decided to order a set. Robert -- is the new ride height higher? Cheers John From John Brabyn Wed Nov 1 15:37:18 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Old news Sure hope the rumor about the D-90 returning in a year or so is true -- it's about the first GOOD rumor I've heard lately! The one about the Range Rover Classic being discontinued, which seems to be true according to LRO, depressed me a bit... Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Nov 1 18:39:08 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:39:08 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re-Galvanizing anybody know of a quality source for having parts Re-Galvinized??? British Northwest did some work which was good, but .....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ get the picture Steve 72 Series lll 88 From Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand) Wed Nov 1 15:44:07 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:44:07 -0800 From: Doug.Forehand@Eng.Sun.COM (Douglas W. Forehand) Subject: Re: Defender 90 Prices > From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com Wed Nov 1 14:19:06 1995 > Of course, there is one small problem ... they're one of the current [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > little out of hand. I'm gonna try and see what I can do, but if anyone > knows the approx. dealer cost for one of these beauties it'd sure help... >From Edmunds: ************************************************************ Make: Land Rover Model: Defender 90 Year: 1995 Class: Sport Utility Drive AWD Built: Solihull, England Warranty: Basic - 3/42,000 Drivetrain - 3/42,000 Rust - 6/Unlimited Roadside Assistance - 3/42,000 Dealer Holdback: Unknown ************************************************************ DEFENDER 90 (1995) Dealer Invoice MSRP --------------- -------------- ---- SLNZ 4WD 2-Dr (5-spd) 25790 28650 Destination Charge: 625 625 Specifications: 1995 Land Rover Defender 90 Length: 160.5 Engine, Liters: 3.9 Width: 70.5 Displacement: 241 Height: 80.2 Horsepower: 182 Wheelbase: 92.9 Torque: 232 Curb Weight: 3560 Steering Ratio: 19.3 Min. Gross Weight: 6003 Turning Circle: Max. Gross Weight: N/A Fuel Tank: 15.6 Min. Cargo Capacity: N/A Transmission: 5M Max. Cargo Capacity: N/A EPA Manual: 13/16 Cylinders: 8 EPA Auto: N/A ---------------------------------------------------------------- Standard Equipment DEFENDER 90: 3.9 liter V8 OHV engine, permanent four-wheel drive, two-speed transfer gearbox with manual locking center differential, 5-speed manual gearbox, suspension (four-wheel long-travel coil spring suspension at all four wheels, live axles front and rear located by radius arms and trailing links, front and rear anti-sway bars), BF Goodrich all-terrain 265/75R16 all-season radial tires on styled steel wheels, front bucket seats with adjustable recline and headrest, unique weather-resistant twill-effect upholstery, full tonneau cover, front and rear rubber floor mats, fastback style covertible top with removable sliding side-door windows, audio (incls premium high-power AM/FM stereo cassette, 4 weather-resistant speakers, mast-mounted antenna system, lockable radio security/weather protection cover), 4-wheel power assisted disc brakes, integral front head restraints, "Safari" roll cage system, swing-away rear- mounted outside spare tire, dual adjustable exterior mirrors, 2-speed front wipers with intermittent feature, quartz halogen headlamps, full instrumentation including tachometer, Class III trailer tow hitch receiver, flexible black wheel flares with integrated black bumpers. Accessories - Air Conditioning 1530 1800 - California Emissions 100 100 - Beluga Black Paint 250 300 - Removable Hardtop 1120 1400 From "John Y. Liu" Wed Nov 01 16:28:59 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 16:28:59 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Video -- Copyright Issues >If anyone out there is duping this tape, maybe they could survey this group >for additional videos. I'd be willing to buy one. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >duping service do it instead of copying it one tedious tape at a time. I've >seen prices in quantities down to $3 a copy. Note the potential of copyright violations from copying and distributing a tape of ESPN's broadcast, especially if the tapes are being "sold". I'd suggest interested people just try to watch and/or videotape ESPN's airings of the Camel Trophy themselves. If tapes are to be duplicated, I suggest it be done by private e-mail, duplicates made singly rather than in bulk, no money change hands, and -- most important -- that the list not be used for/involved in the process. Sorry to be a spoiler but the copyright laws even apply to us LROs. From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Nov 1 15:32:37 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:32:37 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Rhino Calendar The Rhino calendar was included with the Nov. issue of "Four Wheeler" in a plastic bag. If the magazine does not come in a plastic bag, then I'd bet someone already has the rhino on their wall. _____ /___|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ 6405 235th Place SW |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043 | _| | | _ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ _/ From Andy Dingley Wed Nov 01 23:42:26 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 23:42:26 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: 12V sockets James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> writes: > When is someone going to come up with a 12 power connector that is > less clunkly than the lighter sockets? I'm using RS Loudspeaker plugs (part# 171-102) Moulded plastic, waterproof sockets when sealed into a panel, 4 x 20A rated gold flashed contacts with a bayonet lock. They're not the strongest connectors I've ever seen, but they do have a high current rating and are dirt cheap (2.50 or so each half). (RS is a UK firm that dominates the professional electronics component market. They also have a "hobbyist" mail order section called Electromail) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Nov 1 16:34:49 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:34:49 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Tilt Tests I was perusing the new Rover Web and reading about the New Range Rover when this caught my eye... Tilt Test Both V8 engines and the BMW diesel engine have been subjected to Land Rover's unique off-road tilt test. No other manufacturer in the world uses such an extreme test. The objective of the test is to ensure that engines can operate in the most extreme off-road conditions and that oil supply and pressure operates correctly at extreme angles. Engines are tested at varying angles of up to 45 degrees nose up and nose down, with a tilt of up to 35 degrees either side. The engines undergo tests for 25 hours at each of the four extremes at maximum power and maximum torque. Is this testing common to other LR's (e.g. D-90 & Disco)? _____ /|__|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU N7UMU From asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Wed Nov 1 17:39:28 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 17:39:28 PST From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Subject: Re: 12V sockets Does anyone know of an equivalent company over here in the US? One of the biggest things I miss being exiled over here is having an RS catalogue on the shelf in the kitchen. It's easy to find most other important things in life like LBCs, Land-Rovers, B.A. spanners (sic), Sam Smith's, Twining's Earl Grey, Crumpets and Marmite :-) Andrew Smith Palo Alto CA USA '60 Healey 3000 Mk.I '96 Discovery > (RS is a UK firm that dominates the professional electronics component > market. They also have a "hobbyist" mail order section called > Electromail) From CALLanyVEG@aol.com Wed Nov 1 20:44:40 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:44:40 -0500 From: CALLanyVEG@aol.com Subject: RE: shirt offa my back/abs brakes just got my triathalon shirt from the ROAV. Whatta beaut ! Thank's again. Also, this is a general post, I am a former '88 RR owner, who because of numerous circumstances had to part with that beloved vehicle. I am now in the market for a '89 or newer model RR. Clearly I intend to upgrade to the 3.9 engine, however a well-respected mechanic has told me the models with ABS have problems with this system. Anybody with an ABS-equiped RR have any experience (good or bad) with their brakes, please do tell. EVAN From asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Wed Nov 1 17:57:34 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 17:57:34 PST From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Subject: Re: Tilt Tests Rob, I think for the Discovery what they mean is: even if you roll it onto its side or roof, the engine will *still* operate at full power and torque and the wheels will still be rotating 25 hours later .... now that's what I call solid British engineering practice :-) Andrew Smith > > Tilt Test [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > > Is this testing common to other LR's (e.g. D-90 & Disco)? From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 01 95 Nov EST 1921 Date: 01 Nov 95 21:10:19 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Reply to: Re: Old Man Emu Springs >> Robert -- is the new ride height higher? << Yes, I guess the change in height would be somewhat dependent on the shape of your old springs, but I would say that it raised it just over an inch. If someone needs a more precise number, I guess I could take some measurements off the vehicle so as to compare...Let me know Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 01-Nov-1995 From TONY YATES Thu Nov 2 10:32:39 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:32:39 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: 12V sockets > > (RS is a UK firm that dominates the professional electronics component > > market. They also have a "hobbyist" mail order section called > > Electromail) RS, what an unfortunate name. (At least here in Oz where RS means something entirely different). I take it RS means RadioSpares? Cheers. ========================================================== @@@@@@@@@@@@ Tony Yates @@@@@@@@@@ Bureau of Meteorology @@@@@@@ Port Hedland @@@@ Western Australia @@@@ @@@ ph: (091) 401 350 @@@ fax: (091) 401 100 @@@ @@@ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au @@ @ ========================================================== From SKOOKILL@aol.com Wed Nov 1 21:41:25 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:41:25 -0500 From: SKOOKILL@aol.com Subject: LAND ROVERS SIGN ME UP!!!!! I LOVE MINE! From "John C. White III" Wed Nov 1 18:58:40 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:58:40 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE Abuse them like they deserve? I suddenly have visions of Land Rovers with those silly leather bra things some people put on Suzuki Samurais and other such. Come see "Dominatrix Land Rover Vixens," a film by Russ Meyer appearing at a theatre near you. Cheers! John '95 Discovery (Whip me! Beat me! Make me write bad checks!) On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, russ burns wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Yea, I was kind of wondering who would be dumb enough to a rover on blocks, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] > >another part of a person's investment portfolio! > >Discusting treatment of a Land Rover! > >TeriAnn From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Wed Nov 1 17:42:35 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:42:35 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: rhino calendar At least for me, Four Wheeler was in an plastic sleeve that contained both the magazine and the calendar. The sleeve was not sealed, so if you got the sleeve but not the calendar it's possible it just fell out. -Matt From TONY YATES Thu Nov 2 11:31:44 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:31:44 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Yet another movie sighting. The movie Sarafina has the bad guys, ie SA police, screaming around at high speed (yes it is possible, perhaps they were modified :-) ) in white 109 SIIs. Cheers. Tony. From JCassidyiv@aol.com Wed Nov 1 23:01:12 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 23:01:12 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Old Man EMU Springs Just got my '87 RR back from my mechanic today, after he fitted the OME springs I mentioned in the earlier post. Distance between front axle housing and bump stop increased from 2.25 inches to 3.75 inches on both sides. Distance in the rear increased from 3 inches to 4.25 inches on the right and from 3.75 inches to 5 inches on the left. The vehicle rides somewhat stiffer, but is not rough. The height increase is noticeable when entering and exiting the vehicle, though. There was a good article on fitting these springs in the June 1995 issue of Four Wheeler magazine. They claim it to be a 4-5 hour process. My mechanic completed it in a very full afternoon. He said the front springs were more difficult to change. I'm not sure of the spring rates of these sets, but I'm sure that Laney at Rover's North would be happy to let you know. I fitted these springs with the standard Bilstein shock set-Laney seemed to think that their length would be sufficient. I'll let you know-after my nect off-road stint ;-). The next thing will be larger tires! Regards! John Cassidy...Bangor, Maine From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 01 95 Nov EST 1923 Date: 01 Nov 95 23:09:45 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Delayed Sighting I can't believe I was the only one who saw this commercial but I haven't noticed any other posts regarding it. I caught the tail end of a commercial during the world series, which I believe was for Bud Lite, but it starred a SerIIa 109? (I just got a quick glimpse) and a bunch of monkeys stealing beer out of a cooler on the roof rack. I was hoping that it would be replayed, but I haven't seen it again, so maybe someone else can provide more details. Great clip though Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 01-Nov-1995 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Nov 2 15:44:00 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:44:00 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: RS > RS, what an unfortunaFrom Mr Ian Stuart Thu Nov 2 08:16:18 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:16:18 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: The RoverWeb has moved to a new home. On 1 Nov 95, Dixon Kenner wrote: I'm having problems with www.ridgecrest.ca.us as a host -- my DNS cannot find it. Please can someone confirm the address is correct..... Thanks.. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Nov 02 03:16:42 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 03:16:42 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting Rob Denis sez.. > I caught the tail end of a commercial during the world series, which I > believe was for Bud Lite, but it starred a SerIIa 109? (I just got a quick > glimpse) and a bunch of monkeys stealing beer out of a cooler on the roof > rack. I was hoping that it would be replayed, but I haven't seen it again, / My Dad saw the commercial and told me about it. I haven't seen it yet... Cheers Mike From Richard Jones Thu Nov 2 10:04:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:04:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: The RoverWeb has moved to a new home. Ian Stuart writes: > > The new RoverWeb http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/ > I'm having problems with www.ridgecrest.ca.us as a host -- my DNS cannot [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > find it. > Please can someone confirm the address is correct..... The address is corrent. The machines real name appears to be owens.ridgecrest.ca.us, but if that also fails its IP address is 199.120.150.1 __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Stephen Thomas 2 95 Nov GMT 1911 Date: 2 Nov 95 11:03:15 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Australian in-jokes on the net - what next? Come on Tony, It's not fair to keep us in suspense - what does RS stand for in OZ? Over here it means just one thing, and most people I know would know what. RS components can be seen in every high street in any branch of Tandy's. But to what were you referring? I feel insecure about mentioning other brand names now, just in case. But that may just be more to do with me :) If because I'm on digest then this question comes after the answer, then ignore the above message and look at the lovely ASCII pic of 'Andy' attached. Thanks to Dave Bobeck for the inspiration.... Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ / /-\ /---------------\ /-\ \ | | | | | | | | | \-/ | | \-/ | |______|_______________|______| /~~~~~~| |~~~~~~\ |o| |[] | |o| |O/ | | \O| || | | || Stephen Thomas ||______|_______________|______|| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \_ | | _/ 0121-452-1405 |~\_________|_{}_|__________/~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~-_-~|) (|~-_-~| |~-_-~| |~-_-~| ['Andy': except for the XCL's :)] ~---~ ~---~ From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Nov 2 23:02:33 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 23:02:33 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Australian in-jokes on the net - what next? > It's not fair to keep us in suspense - what does RS stand for in > OZ? Over here it means just one thing, and most people I know would > know what. Steve it means pretty much one thing over here too, and it aint Radio Shack... The more polite version is Ratchet Screwdriver. The common usage sounds similar to the first word Rat-chet. Should I continue hmmmm ??? RS: A small to medium sized rodent's solid waste metabolic by-product if it still aint clear I'd better take this off-line.... cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Easton Trevor Thu Nov 02 07:49:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 07:49:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Why Dixon has a Saab News report on this mornings radio tells of California Highway Patrol stopping a Saab with a "lady" standing up through the sunroof with the wind in her hair and everywhere else. She was quoted as saying she liked to feel the wind on her skin. Dixon, does your Saab have a sunroof? From Easton Trevor Thu Nov 02 07:49:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 07:49:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: email address Alistair Lowe, if you read this or if anyone has Alistair's email address, please contact me. I need some stuff from Dave Lowe. Thanks in advance. Trevor Easton for Toronto Area Rover Club teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Nov 02 08:57:22 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 08:57:22 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Abuse Were we all to "abuse" (see dictionary if necessary) our L-Rs as badly as we abuse the English language in some of these posts, there wouldn't be enough of them left to support this list. (I'm an engineer *and* an artist, so I have _my_ excuse.) Anybuddy wanna join me in a class acshun lawsuit agenst are gradescool teechers for not teeching us to spell good? I want to be sudenly rich enuff to abuse my Rovers like they deserve. Counting on offending only those who are even more paranoid than me, Hank (self-appointed defender of civilisation) ;-) From Stephen Thomas 2 95 Nov GMT 1913 Date: 2 Nov 95 13:17:18 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Re: Australian in-jokes on the net - what next? Awwww-geeeee, *Now* I'm blushin.....should've guessed I suppose %) Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ / /-\ /--------------\ /-\ \ | | | | | | | | | \-/ | | \-/ | |______|______________|______| /~~~~~~| |~~~~~~\ |o| |[] | |o| |O/ | | \O| || | | || Stephen Thomas ||______|______________|______|| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \_ | | _/ 0121-452-1405 |~\_________|_{}_|_________/~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~-_-~|) (|~-_-~| |~-_-~| |~-_-~| ['Andy': except for the XCL's :)] ~---~ ~---~ From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 2 95 Nov EST 1908 Date: 2 Nov 95 8:55:30 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: For those of us with pickup roofs... I've been racking down an odd leak in my 109. It turns out that the roof, which is made up of two pieces (rim and center) rivited together and sealed, seems to have developed a leak in the sealing material between the steel rim and aluminum roof panel. A bead of RTV should do it for this problem. but I thought someone else might benefit from a mention of it... WHat idiot invented a two-piece roof? Clever these British....8*) aj"Just say wet"r From "John C. White III" Thu Nov 2 06:13:02 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 06:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting I saw the commercial too, but only once on the World Series. It didn't seem to be one of those one-off special event commercials, so I'd imagine it will be aired again. Keep your eyes pealed. Cheers! John '95 Discovery On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Rob Denis sez.. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > My Dad saw the commercial and told me about it. I haven't seen it yet... > Cheers > Mike From Rob Bailey Thu Nov 2 07:23:31 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 07:23:31 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Re: Camel Trophy '95 Video All: If no money is being exchanged, I can't see that any copyright laws are being broken. I would be be more than happy to watch it myself on ESPN, but since I can't get ESPN, I can't watch it! Gary: I would really like to get a copy of this video, if it is worth it. I don't mind making copies for other people (although I don't especially want to be making 25 copies, either!). Let me know, Rob baileyr@cuug.ab.ca >I taped it yesterday. If anyone can dup it I am willing to send them my copy >. >Gary Mitchelson From "John C. White III" Thu Nov 2 06:40:52 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 06:40:52 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Abuse You say "civilisation," I say "civilization." Altogether now, To-may-to, to-mah-to. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to. Let's call the whole thing off. Non-morphophonemic languages are such a pain to deal with. (Red alert! That sentence ended in a preposition!) Yeah, some of us have trouble with spelling and grammar. Some of us can't type to save our Land Rovers. Fortunately, doing well on an English exam doesn't seem to be a criterion for Land Rover ownership. Later, Dude! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Were we all to "abuse" (see dictionary if necessary) our [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > than me, > Hank (self-appointed defender of civilisation) ;-) From Dixon Kenner Thu Nov 2 09:46:42 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:46:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Why Dixon has a Saab On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Easton Trevor wrote: > News report on this mornings radio tells of California Highway Patrol > stopping a Saab with a "lady" standing up through the sunroof with the wind > in her hair and everywhere else. She was quoted as saying she liked to feel > the wind on her skin. Dixon, does your Saab have a sunroof? Unfortunately not, but if I put one in I wonder if I get the "lady" too... :-) From Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Thu Nov 2 10:00:00 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:00:00 -0500 From: Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting The commercial is for Bud Light and is funny, but I've got to believe that the driver/passenger aren't real LROs. No self-respecting LRO would lose track of their beer. There is another commercial I've seen a couple of times the last few months where a couple of beautiful people drive a Land Rover into the jungle searching for a Mayan/Aztec type city to find super tropical fruit-flavoured candy (StarBurst? Something else?). You see the LR climbing steep stairs to enter a temple filled with fruit falvoured candy! **************************************************************** | Martin Eglitis Lab of Cell Biology | | Phone: (301) 402-1641 NIMH, Bldg. 36 Rm. 2D10 | | FAX: (301) 480-2437 36 Convent Dr MSC 4068 | | sveiks@codon.nih.gov Bethesda, MD 20892-4068 | **************** Wherever you go, there you are **************** From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Nov 02 08:40:54 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 08:40:54 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: FTP available for Rover images??? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: FTP available for Rover images??? Dixon (and Ben) Is there an address where I can "anonymous ftp" the LR images? I tried the "www.ridgecrest.ca.us" machine but after searching all over, I couldn't find them. Please help! Thanks, #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Nov 02 08:56:49 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 08:56:49 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Discovery tail lamps. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Discovery tail lamps. Erik, I had a '94 Discovery, and noticed the blank part of the tail light. Did you notice that it has a hole in it where you could easily put in a bulb? All you'd have to do is splice it into the turn signal wiring. Only thing is that it'd be a red turn indicator instead of the amber color. I was going to do that... before I had to sell it. :-( But now I have 3 Rovers! :-) But right now, all 3 are down for repairs. :-( But parts should arrive Today for the 109. :-) And the RR is getting a new higher performance cam and valve job. :-) And, to top it all off, I've recently received word that the parts I ordered *in July* have left the UK and are now in transit! :-) So life is *peachy*! ;-) Dave ;-) Brown #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> 02 95 Nov EST 1910 Date: 02 Nov 95 10:50:13 EST From: James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: San Bernardino Discovery! Christopher Boese writes, >>Actually, my Discovery's beluga black ('95, just automatic trans.) I just broke 1000 miles this weekend, but I'm already working my way up to some off-road trips by exploring some of the more difficult paved access roads around Lake Arrowhead. The Discovery seems to be bored with where I've taken it so far. I'm interested especially in finding some of the old routes into the mountains, like the City Creek toll road, or what's left of them. If you have any suggestions let me know (keeping in mind shiny black paint and no 'roo bars up front.) If I find some interesting roads I'll get back to you on those too. Thanks for writing. Christopher, Beluga Black eh, nope, haven't seen that one. What's left of the City Creek toll road is highway 330. If you have John Robinson's "The San Bernardinos" check out chapt. 16. He describes how the road, initally a 25% grade at the top was regraded in 1915-17 and again in late '40s to the current 7% max. I think there may be a few remainants of the old road as cutoffs and there may be a little of it up in Fredalba, but most of it is paved now as 330. Clark's Grade is still open as Forest Road 1N54. Take 38 to Angelus Oaks. At the west end of the large chain-up area just east of town turn left on 1N12 (unsigned) a well graded dirt road. When you get to the bottom of the hill take the bridge over the Santa Anna river and in a quarter mile or so turn left on 1N09. Keep following the signs to Clark's Grade. Where 1N54 branches off to the right from 1N09 there is a sign that warns of a locked gate ahead. If it hasn't snowed yet, ignore it. (The Forest Service closes the area at the top of the ridge south of Big Bear Lake for cross-country skiing in the winter and this is when they lock the gate.) Keep heading up 1N54 and immagine doing it in a Model T! You will reach a false summit with a fork in the road, stay right, the left fork leads to a dead end and is lined with paint eating Whitethorn. This was the main road to Big Bear through most of the first half of this century and in fact was in regular use until highway 38 was completed in 1961. (Again Robinson's book is a great resource.) This road will not challenge your Discovery and you won't even need low range. When you get to the (presumedley open) gate a left takes you to Big Bear the shortest way. The old Morman road is mostly under highway 18, but a few remains can be seen from the momument near Crestline. It is undrivable. If you want to really see what your Discovery can do, take Holcomb Valley road north from Fawnskin, past the Hanna Flat campground and turn left on 3N93. This gets hard right after you cross Holcomb Creek. Yes you can climb the steep hill without locking diffs and yes you can drive through the rock piles without touching the rocks with anything but tires and no it hasen't gotten worse since I last drove it. If you are worried about the paint take along some hedge clippers, the road is starting to get overgrown. (I got a rather extensive collection of pinstripes when I drove it last month. They all waxed out, for the most part, however. (If you haven't discovered Orange Empire Carwash, across the street from Walmart in Redlands, now's the time. Wash, hand wax, Armor-all, interior cleaning all for $45 and they do a good job.) Another tough one is from Crab Flats campground, near Green Valley lake, to Deep Creek, near Lake Arrowhead, on 3N34. I haven't driven this one recently, but I don't remember any bushy sections. Be ready to take your Discovery swimming at the end of this one. Neither of these last two should be attempted solo if you are new to off-roading. For any off-highway SBNF trips the Forest Service's secret decoder map is a must. Get it at any ranger station. (I've been told that the road #s make sense, but no one has ever been able to explain the system.) Are you going on any of the dealer sponsered off road trips Veterans Day weekend? We're going to Death Valley with our dealer, Bauer Motors. The trip sounds fun, but I got the itenerary in the mail last week and I know most of the places they're going to lead us and none are very challenging. Of course they get a lot of people who have never driven on a gravel road before, so they have to strike a balance. Staying at the Furnace Creek Inn (AAA 4 diamonds), eating catered food on the trail, I think we'll have fun even if the trails aren't real "interesting." Have fun with that new Discovery! **Those aren't scratches they're desert pinstriping!** Jim San Bernardino, CA, USA 70302.2516@compuserve.com From RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Thu Nov 2 11:00:45 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:00:45 +0000 From: RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Subject: Re: Defender 90 prices According to Edmunds Price Guide on the WWW (gopher://www.dc.enews.com:70/00/showroom/edmunds/newcars/land/landdefe.95) the dealer cost is $25790, MSRP is $28650 and delivery charge is $625. Hope this is helpful Good Luck, Raoul From lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Thu Nov 02 11:05:35 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 11:05:35 EST From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Subject: Consumer Research on Range Rovers I received aletter yesterday from a Michigan based company called PACE (Product and Consumer Evaluations Ins). They were looking for Range Rover owners in the Boston area to take part in a "study". The study is intended to evaluate the general cosmetic condition of vehicles to see how well various materials and components are holding up in day-to-day usage. As far as I know the offer is for Range Rovers only. The survey will take less than 30 minutes per vehicle and they will pay me $100. Has anyone heard of this outfit? $100 for letting someone look at my Rover sounds like a good deal. They promise that there is no sales promotions attcahed to the offer. They are merely collecting the info for the "automobile industry". They have a toll free number 1-800-783-0540 to call and make an appointment. You have to call between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. (I assume Detroit time). Mike 87 Range Rover From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 2 95 Nov EST 1911 Date: 2 Nov 95 11:29:25 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Series II turn Signal stalk - different from S.II? In thumbing through my manuals I've noticed that the Series IIa late and Series III turn-signal returner thingy (I love technical terms...) seems to be of a design that does not require a puck wheel. If so, how does the b****y thing work, and does anyone think it'll fit an SIIa? Tired of tendonitis... -Alan From "Mark E. Kraieski" Thu Nov 02 11:45:14 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 11:45:14 -0800 From: "Mark E. Kraieski" Subject: Request Comments: Hennessy LR, GA I would like comments (good, bad or indifferent) on Hennessy Land Rover in Atlanta (actually, Alpharetta, GA, USA). I am interested in quality of service, honesty, reliability, customer support for warranty claims, etc. I may be purchasing a D90 there very shortly. Also. There must be some LROs on the list from the Atlanta area. If so, I'd love to hear from you. Especially if you are one of the 2 locals who had ARBs installed. Mark Kraieski From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Thu Nov 2 11:59:22 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:59:22 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: 12V sockets James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> writes: > When is someone going to come up with a 12 power connector that is > less clunkly than the lighter sockets? Providing the amperage in moderate, you can use BNC type connectors, commonly used for sending video signals on professional video equipment. The connecter is compact, and locks into place with a half twist. As long as it's wired correctly in the beginning, you can't screw up polarity. LittleLite, the company that originated the flexible stalk light much loved by audio engineers, uses such a connection and many sound boards have a 12V BNC mounted. Available in several mounting styles from Radio Shack. Just don't screw up and send 12VDC into the VIDEO INPUT of your $60,000 BetaCam deck. ;-} Keep on Roverin' JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ***** Look what happens when you love someone, and they don't love you. --Warren Zevon, The Heartache == == From sherrell@wilbur.etc.gandalf.ca (Steve Herrell) Thu Nov 2 17:04:33 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 17:04:33 GMT From: sherrell@wilbur.etc.gandalf.ca (Steve Herrell) Subject: RR Rear Hubs From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Thu Nov 2 12:07:36 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:07:36 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting > I caught the tail end of a commercial during the world series, which I >believe was for Bud Lite, but it starred a SerIIa 109? This one first ran during the Superbowel. When it came on I was ROTFL! You'll see it periodically during sporting events that Bud Lite sponsers, though I haven't seen much of it recently. I guess they "revived it" for the Series. == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Nov 02 09:24:14 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 09:24:14 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: FTP available for Rover images??? (fwd) In message you wrote: > Is there an address where I can "anonymous ftp" the LR images? I tried the > "www.ridgecrest.ca.us" machine but after searching all over, I couldn't find > them. All of the images from the OVLR page are now at: ftp://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/pub/users/bens/images. And are accessable via anonymous ftp. It will take a bit more effort to do that for the RoverWeb since all of the images aren't in the same directory. Ben From KKelly6788@aol.com Thu Nov 2 12:33:46 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:33:46 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Royal Land Rover: If anyone has a wife or girlfriend that reads Town & Country Magazine, turn to page 147 in the November ‘95 issue. There is a great picture of David Viscount Linley (the son of Princess Margaret) in his blue Series 3 on a cliff above the blue Caribbean water. The caption reads “Lord Linley’s preferred transport, a Land Rover." From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Nov 1 17:42:38 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:42:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: trivia Well, the answers to yesterday's trivia, as I understand are: The LR logo should be found on the side opposite of the steering wheel - at least, that is how they should have left the factory. As for the code names of '87 and '89 US Range Rovers, they were "Eagle" and "Osprey" respectively. O.K., for today, two more easy ones (that is, if you know the answers) - First, every Land Rover model's wheels are interchangeable except for one model - which one? Next, has the LR factory ever built a vehicle with a galvanised frame from new? Frank Twarog Burlington, VT From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Thu Nov 2 10:28:00 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:28:00 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Camel Trophy Video Not to be a party pooper, but be careful not to flagrantly violate copyright by advertising duped copies on the net. -Matt From don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Thu Nov 02 11:23:59 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 11:23:59 -0800 From: don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Subject: Galvanizing Steve and anyone else interested, I took all my old galvanized medal off the truck, windscreen included, during my restoration and had it sandblasted. The local guy changed me about $120 cash. Then I took to EBCO, who does all sorts of medal finishing, and had it hot dip galvanized. That cost me $96 with tax at about $.20/pound. The final product was ROUGH and shiney but the sun and rain made it dull again and it looks real nice with my new paint. Don From Paul Moruzzi Thu Nov 2 13:48:12 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 13:48:12 EST From: Paul Moruzzi Subject: Pace RR condition study? Anybody else get a letter from PACE Product and Consumer Evaluations, Inc, looking to study the cosmetic condition of Range Rovers in the boston area? It says Dear Range Rover owner, I called them up andsaid that I owned a Land Rover and they said it qualified. They want me to bring it to Peabody next weekend to evaluate its cosmetic condition. The bribe to do this is $100, Think they may be supprised by my 72 88 currently in 4 colors and no interior;-) Guess I'll have to get it running in the next couple of days. Anyone else get one of these?? PVM -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Paul V. Moruzzi \ | Mail Stop - MS-460 E-Mail: pmoruzzi@an.hp.com | | Patient Monitoring Division (PMD) | | Hewlett Packard HP Telnet: 1-659-7850 | | 3000 Minuteman Road Voice: 1-508-659-7850 | | Andover, Ma. 01810-1099 Fax: 1-508-685-5372 | \_______________________________________________________________________/ From "Guzelis.Pete" 2 1995 Nov U 1910 Date: 2 Nov 1995 10:57:21 U From: "Guzelis.Pete" Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Anyone have any experience with Locking Differentials for the Disco. I have a'94 model and was told by the L/R mechanic that a locker is preferred to having a winch. Experiences, comments?? _______________________________________________________________________________ From asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Thu Nov 2 10:55:09 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 10:55:09 PST From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Subject: Yet another yet another movie sighting. Film crew on 101 this morning with a shiny black D110 trailered with a film camera on the front of the trailer, at speed, followed by an escort of 3 or 4 police cars: kind of looked like a remake of the OJ chase (and they say the black paint doesn't show blood-stains ....). This was in San Francisco down by the Bay near the stadium formerly known as Candlestick :-) Watch your screens for that one .... Andrew Smith Palo Alto CA USA '96 Discovery (yes, it's back at the dealer's for yet another attempt to fix the door-latches ...) From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Thu Nov 2 11:03:01 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:03:01 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: rhino calendar At least for me, Four Wheeler was in an plastic sleeve that contained both the magazine and the calendar. The sleeve was not sealed, so if you got the sleeve but not the calendar it's possible it just fell out. -Matt From NADdMD@aol.com Thu Nov 2 14:05:02 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:05:02 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Heed Ye Well All Who Read!! For All of you who have not RECENTLY checked the oil level in the steering box, DON'T drive your LR again until you do! As many of you may know, I'm in the middle of a frameover restoration of my 67 88" SIIa. A couple of weeks ago, I removed the steering box and noticed one bolt of the side plate was missing. Opening the fill plug showed no oil left in the steering box. Expecting no more than worn out bearings I took it to a local shop for a overhaul. RESULTS: The inner column and outer races need replacing! The parts and labor involved in this would run nearly as much as replacing the assembly with a new one (from Rovers North)----$800. NOW for the catch-22, IF you have a LHD, you would have to wait a LOONG time for a replacement steering box assembly, they've been back-ordered since May '95. Luckily (if one is an eternal optimist) I have RHD and will have it in two weeks. Further, although the SIII inner column and steering box assembly is much cheaper, I was told by RN that it is not an easy conversion and may not work very well. My Suggestion and Personal Plan: Check the steering box oil level as often as the engine oil. Regards, Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com From JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Thu Nov 2 14:16:00 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 14:16:00 -0500 From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Subject: Use/Abuse, sightings, etc... Greetings, At this, our one year anniversary, (me and the D-90) I would like to reflect on a few things. Waving- In 8500 miles of travel, I have had exactly ONE (another D-90) Land Rover/Range Rover owner return a wave. Do Range Rover owners know what a Defender is? Do they care? Use/abuse- Recent discussions about the 110 on blocks brings up another point. I spent a weekend in Wayne National Forest with a local 4X4 club. Many of the members were surprised to even see a Defender, let alone meet one on the trail. In trying to educate the crowd, I joined the group going on the "Ironman" run. By the end of the day, no one doubted the capability of Land Rover Products. When someone finally worked up the intestinal fortitude to ask, all were amazed at the price-tag on the Defender. Moral....? Don't be quick to lash out at the owner of that 110. It has been as close to the trail as most Landrovers around here. (Battle scars here can be traced to grocery carts and car doors.) Lastly.... 1. Saw a red series Rover driving through brush fires on a late-night BP commercial. It was followed by a Landcruiser fording a stream (up to its hood in water). 2. The movie Outbreak, with Dustin Hoffman, has some old series 88's getting vaporized by a fuel-air bomb in the beginning. Regards, Jim Cirbus 94 D-90 #730 No, the hood's not unlatched..... But thanks for asking. From nadyne@bccom.com Thu Nov 2 15:29:04 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:29:04 -0500 From: nadyne@bccom.com Subject: Re: San Bernardino Discovery! Being a newbie Disco owner and off-road driver, I've been wondering when I would get my first opportunity to take my Rover off road. Well, yesterday afternoon, I had to drive into New York City from my office on Long Island. I enjoyed my first taste of it as there is a stretch of the Long Island Expressway (I 495) that is a perfect beginner experience! Then, this morning coming into work, I had my chance to see how it handles as a "wader" - half of the roads I traveled this morning were flooded. I LOVE MY ROVER! and I wonder how many of you had the change to practice your off road skills on a main interstate road?? From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Thu Nov 2 14:21:57 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:21:57 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: HELP PLEASE....... All: Suddenly, with no prompting whatsoever, I've found myself subscribed to the list in DIGEST form. Don't like it at all. Have to do all sorts of strange things to get to it, not nearly as easy to pick and choose, save, delete, or respond to. Anyone else had this happen? What gives? How do I get back to the 'real time' list. Please email me direct with your response, as I may not be able to get to it in the digest. Thanks. Cordially: Rick Crider Monroe NC 66 Slla 109" Hugo .......and still for sale...... 73 Slll 88" Jesse 88 Range Rover From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 02 95 Nov EST 1915 Date: 02 Nov 95 15:09:08 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Ride height. >> Rob, I'd be interested in your before and after ride height, or if you don't have before, at least your "after" height. Please, if you get the chance, let me know at which point you measure, and what it is. Seems like the distance between the axle and bump stop would be a good location to measure, but maybe difficult to measure. << David, As soon as it stops raining here (Could be next week :( ) I will measure the axle to stop dimensions, so that we can compare mine to those just posted. I think mine springs may have settled a little since they were installed so it will be interesting to compare the two sets. Be back soon Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] ~~~~|\/|~~~~~~~~~~~|\/|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 02-Nov-1995 From asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Thu Nov 2 12:16:58 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 12:16:58 PST From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Subject: Re: US Discovery Tail Lamps '95 vs '96 Erik, > I have looked at a 96 Discovery and have noticed that it has an amber > turn indicator section in the rear tail lamp as did the Discos we saw > in Europe. Our 95 doesn't. We want those tail lamps on our '95! I just saw a '95 and you're right - they look wrong! One of the many strange cultural differences you have over here is flashing red stop-lights as turn indicators and hazard flashers. I think amber looks much more aesthetically pleasing on any colour scheme (except perhaps Red). Of course things look even better with yellow rear number plates ..... :-) Andrew Smith Palo Alto CA USA '60 Healey 3000 Mk.I | shiny black with *red* flashers '96 Discovery | shiny black with *amber* flashers From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Thu Nov 2 16:33:00 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 16:33:00 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: carbs, cams and distributor for the (older) v8 Hello, dear List: I got a few replies regarding my Stromberg/Solex induction on a 3.5 v8. In summary, 70% say SU=Solex > Holley for off-road, <= Holley for street. 30% say Holley/Webers are better, but $$, esp. Webers. Most agree that EFI is the best. (When did they switch to EFI on US Rangies?) I am still unsure what to do, as Craddocks wanted L76 for the 2 Solex kits 8o and I have an off-road prepped Holley350 and a pair of 45DCOE Webers in my posession. Dunno yet. Also, nobody commented about an aftermarket cam vs. stock (Dr. Hardcastle approved a cam swap). And, Mallory makes a distributor (dual points or optical pick-up, w/wo vac.), any 1st-hand experience? I like the Lucas for that external point adjustment thingy. C'mon people, tell me what you know! I got more replies from the british car list last time, and there are WAY more v8's in LR than in MGs and TVRs out there! Jan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Nov EST 1916 Date: 02 Nov 95 16:33:39 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Range Rover Power Steering >I have a slow leak in the power steering box on my '89 RR. Some sources tell >me that the box can be rebuilt and others have said that it must be replaced. On pre-92 RR it's just another 'feature' for the PS-box to start "leaking", when the climate gets cold and damp, and miraculously becoming dry again come springtime (a box for all seasons %-) ) As long as the steering doesn't actually drip and dribble and is just plain 'wet' or has wet patches, don't worry about it. Rebuild: *Don't*. I have yet to meet a RR owner who 'rebuilt' his steering box and didn't screw it up worse than it was before. If you replace it, get a new type box, not the same old-type S**t. The new ones (which supposedly don't ever leak) are painted green, as opposed to black on the old ones. I *think* the new good ones are (ta-daaa!) US-made - possibly Westinghouse (do they make PS?) >Any tips on the best PS fluid to use? or is any Dextron II as god as the >next? Plain vanilla ATF is best. (IMHO, of course...) Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Nov EST 1916 Date: 02 Nov 95 16:33:32 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: one curiosity ? >I have a Land Rover 88" of the 1985. This is my first and only one car. >She has some particulars: the front is of the 88" but the back is of the 90". >The stop lamp on the top and the indicators light bottom. <...snip...> ... >The engine is different from another of mine friend 88" (1979??) ... >P.S.I forget that the front brake are of the 109" Series breakfast and the arse of a 90... 109 drum brakes... Doesn't that ring a bell, anyone? Ok, look underneath again and tell me if you see leaf springs. Yes? And all this on a 1985 model? Then we're looking at a spanish-built SANTANA. (YRMV - your Rovers may vary) Stefan From russ burns Thu Nov 2 14:20:07 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:20:07 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Ride height. I installed ARB heavy duty springs on my RR and the height is 3 inchs higher than my friends stock 90 RR. My wife is not very impressed. The ride is fine, it seems she has a hard time jumping in and out or the beast. Russ Burns 91 RR 94 D-90 At 03:09 PM 11/2/95 EST, Robert Dennis wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>> Rob, I'd be interested in your before and after ride height, or if you [ truncated by lro-digester (was 41 lines)] >Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com > On 02-Nov-1995 From Ted VanDecar Thu Nov 2 13:54:29 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:54:29 -0800 From: Ted VanDecar Subject: Texas LR Clubs Outings? My son, an Air Force pilot stationed in Del Rio, Texas, is a new LR owner. Anyone in the Hill country, San Antonio, Del Rio, Austin interested in outings? He would like to contact any LR clubs in Texas. He doesn't have net access, so I will forward information, or one can contact him directly: Chris Van Decar '94 D90 "Slo-Mo VI" 111 Garden Crest Del Rio, Texas 78840 phone 210-774-2316 Thanks and warm regards, Ted Van Decar From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Thu Nov 2 17:56:44 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 17:56:44 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: Haynes SII/III FS this is mainly for US lro. I have a new Haynes SII/III manual (unopened :) - $22 (my cost). Also, the 90/110 diesel Haynes - same price, or whatcha got in yer garage? And ... any interest in a Rover 8 to Series adaptor kit ? I saw an ad asking L100. Sounds like a better conversion than plopping in a F*rd (trolling, trolling ...) Jan From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Thu Nov 2 20:04:45 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:04:45 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Back on Track...... Me again....... After finding myself suddenly 'unsubscribed' to the regular list.....and 'subscribed' to the digest version, I may be back on track. I wrote the Major and reversed everything....and it seems to be working now. Please disregard my earlier posting requesting help on this. .........Still don't know what happened........ Rick Crider 66 Slla 109" Hugo ............for sale.............. 73 Slll 88" Jesse 88 Range Rover From morison@alumni.caltech.edu (Dark Dream Mists) Thu Nov 2 17:34:09 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:34:09 -0800 (PST) From: morison@alumni.caltech.edu (Dark Dream Mists) Subject: Land Rover Magazine Would someone post the address for Land Rover Magazine. Thanks- -Janine morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu From DRead813@aol.com Thu Nov 2 20:34:27 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:34:27 -0500 From: DRead813@aol.com Subject: Land Rover bit maps Does any one have a .bmp file of the Rover name plate or of an S-II? If so, could you e-mail me a copy? Please send to dread813@aol.com Thanks David Read Ann Arbo, MI From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Nov 2 23:07:55 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 23:07:55 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: D-110 on blocks. I too was distressed to hear of the D-110 mistreated in such a fashion. One of the recurring themes on one of the other lists that I subscribe to (the Border Collie digest, BC-L@cornell.edu) is the "rescue" of ill-treated dogs or ones that are cooped up and cannot get enough mental/physical activity. If you know border collies, you know they are happiest when they are working/playing hard...just like Land Rovers. Maybe we should go "rescue" this D-110 or similar ones that aren't being used to their fullest potential. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From jpappa01@interserv.com Thu Nov 2 20:37:06 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 20:37:06 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. - The D90 availability has gotten bad overnight. Automaster had five left at beginning of week - now none. Metro West has one left (my white demo). We even sold the one which will be used in the New England Auto Show - the new owner can't get it until after show over! Yeow! Our dealership (2nd largest in U.S.) can't get *ANY* units from LRNA - `cause there ain't none! - After the (approx) 500 aluminum hardtops are shipped - then approx. 100 more ragtops. Then no more... Ever? 1997? 1998? There are fresh drawings of the CB40 variants in this month's AUTOMOBILE magazine. Interesting article on BMW vs. LAND ROVER marketing strategies. One thing's for sure. Any redone Defender 90 w/airbags, OBD2 motor, impact beams, etc. etc. *WON'T* be getting any cheaper... All the great *bargains* in used D90s I keep reading about probably won't be around very long - or else their owners will wake up and make a reality check. Get to `em before they wake up! - The amber turnsignal in the rear of `96 DISCO was an add to the standard equipment list for `96 MY. - The base price for a ragtop D90 is 30575 including freight. The question now becomes one of availability! Don't forget that the tariff ruling earlier in the year changed the basic equipment and current D90s come with the full Bestop and rear cage/seat. There is no *holdback* or dealer incentive for D90s! We can't even get `em from other dealers on a swap basis! Not much need for Land Rover to incent dealers to move product which doesn't exist! My advice is to anyone who can locate a *stash* of unsold D90s at close to invoice - buy them all and sell them! I hope to heck that D90 comes back in `97 or `98! It's lonely without it around at work. There will be two chalked silhouettes next year - the Classic RR and the D90! Que bummer! cheerz Jim - Blood type: LMA `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Nov 3 15:12:04 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:12:04 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: cams and dizzys > Also, nobody commented about an aftermarket cam vs. stock (Dr. Hardcastle > approved a cam swap). When I get my (financial) act together the new cam for my 3.5 will be aftermarket. If the rover specs are correct the factory cam has fairly agressive timing but little lift. (the same timing but more lift in an aftermarket cam is ~" 3/4 race") I'm toying with a more mild timing but more lift yet to make a final decision though. > And, Mallory makes a distributor (dual points or optical pick-up, w/wo vac.), any 1st-hand experience? I like the Lucas for that external point adjustment thingy. Whilst Hardcastle mentions the mallory none of the performance places I've been to have any listing for tyhe rover v8's. This may be an oz thing. :-) there are a number of places here selling a modified GM HEI dissy. Would be great in the US as lots of parts, but I dont think they were ever used on a local OZ car so all parts have to come through performance importers, kinda puts me off a bit.... cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From CpaulP@aol.com Thu Nov 2 23:46:40 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 23:46:40 -0500 From: CpaulP@aol.com Subject: Re: D-90 ECU Unit Considering re-locating the ECU unit on my '95 Defender 90 to a position under the dashboard. Have heard that it is preferable to move for two reasons: 1) More protection from water damage under the dash and 2) Can store more and heavier objects under the seat (i.e. Snatch Block; shackles etc). Does anyone have any thoughts on this? How difficult is it to re-locate the unit? Any comments would be appreciated. From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Nov 03 00:17:15 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 00:17:15 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: 12V Plugs/sockets/etc. A good mail-order source for all kinds of electrical/electronic doo-dads in the States is MCM Electronics. Phone # 800-543-4330 Cheers Mike From "John C. White III" Thu Nov 2 21:35:20 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:35:20 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting "Superbowel," Jeff??? Not a football fan, eh? Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Jeffrey A. Berg wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > > I caught the tail end of a commercial during the world series, which I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > Jimmy Buffett > == == From "John C. White III" Thu Nov 2 21:36:57 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:36:57 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Royal Land Rover: Not all that surprizing really since Land Rover has all four English royal warrants. Cheers! John On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 KKelly6788@aol.com wrote: > > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > > If anyone has a wife or girlfriend that reads Town & Country Magazine, tu= rn > to page 147 in the November =9195 issue. There is a great picture of Da= vid > Viscount Linley (the son of Princess Margaret) in his blue Series 3 on a > cliff above the blue Caribbean water. The caption reads =93Lord Linley= =92s > preferred transport, a Land Rover." > From GJevne@aol.com Fri Nov 3 00:52:29 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 00:52:29 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: An Idea for the DEF-90 Calender To lro-digest: I own a 76 two door Range Rover and run a company called SAFARI GARD we manufacture Rover necssities (racks, bumpers, diff gards & so on) anyway I was at the S.E.M.A. show last week just happen to grab a few DEFENDER 90 CALENDARS, no folds no bends I was very happy. Im in process of getting more, how many? good question! E-mail me or call: (909) 698-6114 Greg Jevne From "John C. White III" Thu Nov 2 21:49:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:49:25 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Use/Abuse, sightings, etc... I don't know where you live, Jim, but I have had almost every D90 driver wave at me, maybe 1 in 10 Discovery drivers, and 2 out of maybe 100 Range Rover drivers wave. ALL Series owners wave. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Greetings, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 49 lines)] > Jim Cirbus > 94 D-90 #730 > No, the hood's not unlatched..... But thanks for asking. From "John C. White III" Thu Nov 2 21:54:55 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:54:55 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: San Bernardino Discovery! No Interstate highway experience, but during the HMS Defiant's maiden voyage this summer I went about two miles on an unpaved stretch of US 191 between Blanding and Moab, Utah. The Defiant's first off-road experience. I still tingle from the memory. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 nadyne@bccom.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Being a newbie Disco owner and off-road driver, I've been [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > change to practice your off road skills on a main > interstate road?? From "John Y. Liu" Thu Nov 02 22:28:10 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 22:28:10 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Who Waves? (Was Use/abuse etc.) RR and Disco's never ever wave at my SIIA. Defender 90's wave only occasionally. Defender 110's usually wave. Other Series usually stop and get out. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Nov 03 00:22:51 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 00:22:51 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: RoverWeb pilfered?? On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Nick Baggarly asked Ray Harder about the status of the RoverWeb page and volunteers his help: N>> Subject: RoverWeb last update? N>> My name is Nick Baggarly and I'm with the Land Rover Owners Assoc. N> [ truncated by lro-lite (was 16 lines)] N>> Nick C. Baggarly, Los Gatos, Cale And Ray responds on 4 Oct 1995: R> nick, regarding your message and the roverweb page: R> i am a member of lroa -- keep up the good work. R> at one time in my life i had time and i took on the roverweb R> with good intentions. work has consumed me and I have not R> had the time to keep it current. i feel guilty, but it does R> not appear that things will change in the future for me. R> i could pass it along to someone else (thats how i acquired it -- ---> R> greg hiner - hiner@mail.utexas.edu did almost all the work). R> or i could solicite help in keeping it current (i am the R> sysadmin on a medium sized unix system and i could let some R> users sign in to do some web updating...) R> anyway, feel free to point to it and if you have ideas as to R> how to help me get/keep current, send em along. R> i always look forward to the aluminum workhorse -- read it from R> cover to cover on the first night. R> ray harder -- 61 SIIa 88 named lulu. On Tue, 17 Oct 1995 Michael Carradine volunteers to "sign in to do some web updating": M> I didn't get the content of Nick Baggarly's message about updating M> the RoverWeb and-or LROA/NA, however, I am willing to help out (in M> my limited way) to update and or revise the RoverWeb site. I think M> it's one of the premier Land-Rover sites, along with Lloyd Allisons M> Australian page, and should be kept current. M> Provided you have the disk space, one of the things I though might M> be fun to do is to offer the entire Aluminum Workhorse magazine on M> the Web. Ray Harder responds Wed, 18 Oct 1995 outlining his understanding and vision: R> Mike, Dixon, Ben: It is not clear what arrangements are being R> made for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that R> it is being incorporated into the LROA umbrella. R> "..The web site will be residing on a machine in S. California R> that is maintained by Ben Smith..." R> To have a quality site, one person would own the master page R> and solicite completed additions (most desirable: html format) R> from other people contributing to the work. perhaps long-distance R> telnet could allow for 2-3 people to share the workload. My R> situation is: to busy at work, not enough time for fun. R> I do have disk space and a blind html link back to www.missouri.edu R> might be something to consider in the future. Dixon Kenner writes on Wed, 18 Oct 1995: D> Nope. Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA. D> LROA is listed in the clubs section, though information on D> it will need to be updated. That is as close as it gets to D> LROA. RoverWeb will however co-exist with another website D> (not yet open) which relates closely to the RoverWeb. On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith writes: B> The Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, Inc. has a brand new web page B> that has been in the making for months. It can be found at: B> http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/ B> In it is the new Land Rover FAQ (v3.0), which I've been working on B> with Dixon Kenner for the past few months. ---> B> Also, while preparing the OVLR site, it came to our attention that B> the RoverWeb needed a new home. As of right now the new address of B> the RoverWeb is: http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/ B> I encourage any any all submissions to the RoverWeb. And on Wed, 1 Nov 1995 Dixon Kenner writes: ---> D> Many years ago TerriAnn wrote a short 12k file about the D> Land Rover for the British Cars mailing list. Little did D> she know that this file would eventually form the basis of D> a much larger document and a World Wide Web site. D> D> About three/four years ago, I took TerriAnn's short document and D> wrote the first Land Rover FAQ. Over subsequent months, the D> FAQ grew until it stabilised at approximately 99k. D> D> Later, Greg Hiner took this version of the FAQ, and a longer ---> D> (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover D> owners on the Internet. Eventually, time restraints, load D> restrictions, etc. on the first RoverWeb site grew to an D> extent where the site had to be moved. D> D> At this time, both Ray Harder and I volunteered. After some D> discussion, it was agreed that Ray would take over the site, D> put time and effort into the RoverWeb, and help it grow further. ---> D> Ray's efforts have created the best source of Land Rover information D> on the InterNet. The RoverWeb even managed to get publicised D> briefly in the latest edition of Land Rover World where it D> is described as "the tip for lots of stuff on specifications, D> parts, general maintenance etc etc is the following address: D> http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/." It has also been described D> as the premier Rover site on the InterNet by others. D> D> Lately, time constraints have eaten into the time that Ray has D> available to maintain the site and it became necessary to move ?--> D> the site yet again. I and Ben Smith have volunteered to take over D> the RoverWeb and given it a new home. After several weeks of work, D> Ben and I can happily announce that it is ready in its new home. D> As of this morning, the RoverWeb has been moved to a new site. D> D> The RoverWeb now sits beside the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers D> web site, which itself carries a great amount of information D> (Hey, every club seems to be getting into the WWW trip, so we D> figured that it was about time the largest and oldest Canadian D> club got its Internet act together... :-)) D> D> The FAQ has again been expanded to where it is now approximately D> 270k in size. Many portions have been completely rewritten and D> greatly expanded. Nick C. Baggarly wrote on Wed, Nov 1: N> We heard a rumor that the RoverWeb needed a new home so on N> behalf of LROA, I sent Greg Hiner and Ray Harder some email N> on Monday asking if LROA could adopt it as the "LROA RoverWeb." And Benjamin Allan Smith replied Wed, 1 Nov 1995: B> Ray posted it on the main list 3 or 4 weeks ago. A day later he B> agreed to give it over to Dixon and I. Origionally, when the B> RoverWeb moved from Greg, it was either going to Ray or Dixon. B> At that time Dixon found himself behind a firewall so it went to B> Ray. Since the main part of the RoverWeb was the FAQ and the B> new FAQ was going in the OVLR page, it seemed best not to leave B> the Roverweb as a hollow shell so I think they go well together. B> ... Personally, the OVLR page has taken a most of my B> free time since I started it in mid-July. (There was a lot of book B> research). B> Re hearing from Greg/Ray: I dunno. Email them again. The plans to ---> B> open the OVLR and new RoverWeb site on 1 November were made 2 or 3 B> weeks ago. Your request came in at the last minute. Then Nick C. Baggarly replied on Wed, Nov 1: N> Looks like my request came in too late. Now that the situation is N> known I suppose we will steer down a different road. Thanks. ______________________________________________________________________________ Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a wimper. It was you that started the original inquiry into the dormant status of the RoverWeb pages on or prior to October 4, 1995, contrary to Ben Smith's last statement that "your request came in at the last minute" and therefore too late since "the plans to open the RoverWeb site were made 2 or 3 weeks ago". As to Ben Smith's statement about the RoverWeb needing a new home, "Ray posted it on the main list 3 or 4 weeks ago. A day later he agreed to give it over to Dixon and I.", may be wishful thinking. Even as late as Oct 18, after my inquiry, Ray Harder states, "It is not clear what arrangements are being made for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that it is being incorporated into the LROA umbrella", apparently his obvious first choice. Then Dixon Kenner retorts, "Nope. Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA." In the mean time, Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith dismantled the RoverWeb and took it's centerpiece, the FAQ pages, and built the OVLR page around it. Now the RoverWeb is left as a pittance of Web page, with a only couple of gems remaining. So how is it that Dixon Kenner proclaims himself 'Editor' of the RoverWeb Land Rover FAQ pages, and copyrights the material under his own name? And how is it that the pages are now emblazoned with the Land-Rover logo (itself pilfered) and declared Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, Inc. (OVLR) Web pages? Not to say that Dixon Kenner did not contribute to the FAQ pages and may have a say as to their status, after all, the FAQ and RoverWeb were essentially private undertakings. But wasn't it TerriAnn Wakemann who wrote the first 12K FAQ, that was expanded to 99K by Dixon Kenner? And wasn't it Greg Hiner who took this small FAQ, AND a longer 115k version, and wrote the first RoverWeb putting it at a site at the Univerity of Texas? As Ray Harder recalls, "Greg Hiner did almost all the work". Was it not Ray Harder whose "efforts have created the best source of Land Rover information on the InterNet" at an EDU site in Missouri? So who authorized Dixon Kenner to copyright the RoverWeb FAQ pages, which if anything were in the public domain in the US, and absorb them into the OVLR in Canada? And, how is it that a US Government site in California is a server for an Ottawa, Canada WWW site anyway?? So, Nick, as you say, "Now that the situation is known", we can deal with this invertabrae behaviour. I suggest to Dixon Kenner and OVLR that the FAQ pages be returned to the public domain and remain in the US (where they are anyway) as part of the RoverWeb! As Ray Harder suggested, "feel free to point to it", and "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit completed additions from other people contributing to the work." I take this to mean that anyone can, is invited and encouraged to write a portion of a FAQ or any other related Land Rover material (retaining copyright) that can be linked appropriately in the RoverWeb, which in itself is the centerpiece of the entire Land Rover community --not just one or two Yahoo's acting on their own. _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 __________._______.____.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^======o.._________________ ______________________________________________________________________________ ** Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html ** From Lloyd Allison Fri Nov 3 20:30:53 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 20:30:53 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Trivia What Land-Rover development project had the code-name `Discovery' ? Lloyd btw. yes, I believe all LR engines are tested at the angles mentioned. From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Fri Nov 03 11:21:38 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 11:21:38 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Subject: LR watch! Hello all, Everyone might know this already, but there are some very nice original LandRover watches available. One of these is on my wrist. It has a stainless steel back and a LandRover green plate with goldplated arms( seconds, minutes and hours) and one red arm for the alarm. The outer ring is stainless steel with gold coloured numbers. It's water resistant up to 3 atm. It has also a LandRover green genuine leather wristband. Last but least it has the LandRover logos on the plate. I bougth this watch at the LR dealer. The LR partnr = 18STC8720. I paid about US$ 83.00 for it. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Dicovery, ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 03 95 Nov EST 1908 Date: 03 Nov 95 08:21:42 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Trivia >> What Land-Rover development project had the code-name `Discovery' ? << I believe that the new 4.0 SE was code-named 'Discovery' for a while until the Disco was released Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 03-Nov-1995 From "John C. White III" Fri Nov 3 05:54:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 05:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Land Rover Magazine >From the magazine's masthead... Editorial and Advertizing Departments: Link House Magazines Ltd. Dingwall Avenue Croydon CR9 2TA United Kingdom Subscriptions: Land Rover World Subscriptions Department Hainault Road Little Heath Romford Essex RM6 5NP United Kingdom Cheers! John On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Dark Dream Mists wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > -Janine > morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu From "Ahmad Ijaz" Fri Nov 3 08:19:47 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:19:47 CDT From: "Ahmad Ijaz" Subject: camel trophy 95 For those of us who do not get ESPN 2, Camel Trophy will be televised on ESPN on Tuesday, November 28th, at 12:30 a.m. and then again at 4:00 p.m. (central times). From RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Fri Nov 3 09:32:52 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:32:52 +0000 From: RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Subject: Re: trivia >First, every Land Rover model's wheels are interchangeable except for one >model - which one? The 101 I believe has weird wheels - or that's what they said when they converted them to the Judge Dreddmobile. While I am on the line,does anybody have a parts 109 in the NE or Quebec that they would be willing to sell? e-mail me if poss. or if you know of an abandoned individual in need of a good home Cheers Raoul From russ burns Fri Nov 3 07:03:04 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:03:04 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D-90 ECU Unit I had ac installed in my 94 D-90, and the ecu was moved to a less desirable position on the side wall. Originly it was under the dash. The only concern I had with it there, was the heat from the heater. With the heat on, the ecu would get preety hot. I have been looking at moving it under the center console. Russ Burns 91 R-rover 94 D-90 95 D-90 sw (on order) At 11:46 PM 11/2/95 -0500, CpaulP@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Considering re-locating the ECU unit on my '95 Defender 90 to a position [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >etc). Does anyone have any thoughts on this? How difficult is it to re-locate >the unit? Any comments would be appreciated. From crash@merl.com Fri Nov 3 09:57:38 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:57:38 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Discovery Swimming During the recent spate of very wet weather up here in New England, I had the priveledge of inadvertently finding out just how fast a Disco can go in a foot of water. Rt 62 in Reading was flooded about a foot deep in one of the dips (about 75 feet long). It was dead dark, raining like crazy, and the street lights over the flooded area were out (wonder why, that? :-) ) Anyway, in retrospect, poor judgement. Live and learn. I hit the lake at about 30 MPH. WOOOOORRRRHHHSSHHHHHH. Water all over the place. It looked like a fire hydrant was broken off under each front wheelwell. Then I couldn't see anything at all- too much water out on the other side of the windows. I flew on instruments this way for about three seconds till I got out of the puddle. No problem. No stalling. Sally didn't even get skittish on the wheels, let alone hydroplane. [yeah, I thought about hitting the brakes. I chose not to- I kept my foot on the gas instead. Why? Well, I figured one of two things had happened and I didn't like either one. 1- broken water main. In this storm, who would know? I didn't want to drop both front wheels into the crevasse. 2- sometimes storm surge actually pops the covers off of manholes up here. The result is a hole about the size of Jackie Gleason in the roadbed. In either case, I'd rather try to go over the hole *fast* with all wheels rotating straight ahead with power on, to let the wheels roll _over_ the far edge, rather than hit the brakes, maybe skid and get sideways, definitely gauranteeing that the wheels won't ride up over the obstruction on the far side of the hole. End result: Damage: none. Undercarriage: THOUROUGHLY washed. :-) -Bill From Rick Grant Fri Nov 3 10:10:05 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: D-110 on blocks. >If you know border collies, you know they are happiest when they are >working/playing hard...just like Land Rovers. Maybe we should go "rescue" >this D-110 or similar ones that aren't being used to their fullest >potential. Cheers That's about as far as I want to go in parallel linking of the Land Rover and Border Collie lists. Go any further and this list would end up with endless arguments about what constitutes a true Land Rover, what the breed standard should be, the perfidy of various Land Rover organizations. I can see it now; the FAQ would contain sentences something like these--- "If you aren't prepared to run your Series Land Rover five miles through a bog and winch up a hillside once a day you shouldn't own a Land Rover. Land Rovers are working vehicles and should not be considered as mere pets or admired for their looks." Border Collies and Land Rovers go together so well it's uncanny. Both are worth rescuing from poor situations. If I had the space, 10 square miles of rough country, I'd happily rescue LR's and BC's and drive myself nuts exercising both. Rick Grant '59 SII & "Tina" Ottawa, Canada Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Nov 03 11:09:44 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 95 11:09:44 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Trivia My guess on the non interchangeable wheels is the Forward Control and the first few 80"'s were built with galvanised chassis. If I'm wrong on the wheels, then how 'bout those Judge Dredd things? Those tires certainly don't look like they'd fit MY Rover. Dave 72 seriesIII SWB "Green Car" (interchangeable wheels) XX XX XX ---> XX XX XX dbobeck@ushmm.org /|\ | | \|/ XX XX XX <--- XX XX ______ XX [______]---------> "No tread on me" spare(actually on bonnet) From Erik Nystrom Fri Nov 03 08:52:18 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 08:52:18 -0700 From: Erik Nystrom Subject: Disco Tail Lights Thanks to those who responded to my previous message! However, I am wondering if anyone in the UK would know the cost of the tail lamp units for the Discovery. I would like to refit my 95 Disco, which currently has no amber turn indicator, with the European/1996 Discovery style. The Disco's I've seen in Europe and the '96's here in the US have amber turn indicators in the rear lamp. Thanks! Erik 95 Discovery v8i enystrom@innovusmm.com Salt Lake City, UT, USA From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Fri Nov 3 10:41:26 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 10:41:26 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming/wading/winching & waveing hello >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >During the recent spate of very wet weather up here in New [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > Undercarriage: THOUROUGHLY washed. :-) > -Bill I performed a similar feat here in PA, USA. I splashed so much water that I made a wave that went over a few lanes of traffic, completey inundating a BMW, which made me chortle with glee. My wife thought I was nuts, and maybe I am, but the point of my reply is that I managed to somehow wash the transmission over heat switch into a malfunction, as well as remove one of the quarter panel marke lights from it's socket. If you have a mnual xmissino you might need to check for water in your case methinks. Regarding a recent post on waving, I wave to any other Rover I see, but hey, my wife already thinks I'm nuts so... I still would like to see some email from someone who actually has fitted a disco with a winch btw. :-/ And along the lines of swimming, is there wading gear for the disco? Tom Des Jardins FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com Please note new phone numbers. I am now at the McKnight road facility. From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Nov 3 11:30:25 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:30:25 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Delayed Sighting >"Superbowel," Jeff??? Not a football fan, eh? You don't know the *real embarrassing* part. I'd actually had spelled it right at first, then "corrected myself" to get the above. To answer the question, "Go Bears!" Rgds JAB From russ burns Fri Nov 3 08:41:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:41:27 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming Word of caution, if the water is up to the radiator level, and you are moving at 30 MPH you will probably push the rad into the fan blades. I can see your point about a deep crevasse, but I think that 30mph is too slow. At thirty mph hitting a crevasses will only blow out both front tires. at 50 MPH you could rip off the whole axle and still have enough momentum to reach the dry side. Now at 75+ mph you could just hydroplane over any hole. Personal, I like to travel slow, and if the wheels drop off into hole I just get out, stand in the water, use the hi-lift jack and put the rover back on firm ground. Very boring, I will admit. Good luck Russ Burns At 09:57 AM 11/3/95 -0500, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 52 lines)] > Undercarriage: THOUROUGHLY washed. :-) > -Bill From Treit Le 3 95 Nov 1910 Date: 3 Nov 95 10:26:53 From: Treit Le Subject: Picking up new RR So the day has come and I am finally going to pick up my new '95 Classic (Vatican White) tomorrow. It is a demo that was used in the Pope's entourage when he came to the US recently. I picking it up at the Glen Cove Land Rover Centre which has some sort of obstacle course. Has anybody been through this course? I've never been off-road and don't want to hurt my first new vehicle in 8 years. Actually, I'm hoping to convince the salesman to let me run it in a Disco too, as that was my other choice. Do running boards lower ground clearance very much or does the RR still have 8.1" of clearance? And why do lamp guards cost so much (didn't get them)? Next weekend, I expect to actually go offroad when surf-fishing at Montauk. There is a well packed slightly steep dirt trail (big potholes) down to the beach which is sand and baseball sized rocks and then a soft sand track. How do RR's like saltwater anyway? And what sort of air-compresser is recommended. I need to lower the tire pressure on the beach and then raise it before getting on the road. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Nov EST 1911 Date: 3 Nov 95 11:49:02 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Disco lights..... Am I alone, or is anyone else irretrievably linking this discussion to mirrored balls hung in dance clubs and white polyester suits? aj"Stayin' alive"r From Mr Ian Stuart Fri Nov 3 16:45:02 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:45:02 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: trivia >First, every Land Rover model's wheels are interchangeable except for one >model - which one? The 101 has 6-stud wheels, whilst the rest have 5 studs. BTW.... The hubs of the leaf-sprung vehicles are slightly different to those of their coil sprung siblings -- so the wheels don't fit without a fight. ... with a wooden spoon ... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Nov 03 09:06:22 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 09:06:22 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? Tom Rowe writes: >If Dixon hasn't actually filed for copy right then he doesn't have it >even if he does put such a notice on the pages. It makes no difference if it's filed or not for 'Version 3.0'. The content of the work and the copyright of each individual contribution can be traced and attributed seperatly if need be, and those contributors hold the eventual copyright unless formally forfeited to other individuals, the Land Rover community, or to the public domain. >Have you talked to Dixon on exactly what was behind his copy right >notice for the web page? I'm assuming his 'intentions' are good, after all, he is contributing to the work and leaving it accessible for the Land Rover community. The copyright probably serves to prevent some private individual or company from publishing it and keeping the $$. However, the work itself is the product of several individuals, not just Dixon Kenner, and their effort was donated in the spirit of common benefit and enjoyment. The work does not belong to Dixon Kenner, although he may justly claim parts of it, and the work certainly has nothing to do with the OVLR. I also may assume that the pages were constructed hurriedly, that this is a temporary form of the RoverWeb, and these abberations will be corrected. _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 __________._______.____.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^======o..___________ ________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From "Francis J. Twarog" Fri Nov 3 12:14:30 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:14:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Stuff Well - some interesting reading these days on the digest... I'm a little bit surprised at the outlash against the 110 on blocks! It is great in theory to say that Land Rovers should be trashed about and battle scarred, but the reality is that when you own a truck like the 110, you just don't do that on a daily basis!! Remember, the owner (who I know through the BSROA) is not your typical fleeting-whim type. He was the very first customer on the Land-Rovers-return-to-the-US bandwagon!! I certainly can't blame him for trying to baby the truck, since he *does* have a few series Rovers that (believe it or not) are not on blocks - actually, I think he has even scratched, no, dented them!!!! Anyway, I went out yesterday on some logging roads/old trails with my '70 88" and a guy with a Def 90. Here's the skinny - in all of the trail rides I've done this year, my series car has never gotten stuck, yet every one of the Def 90s (including mine) tend to find there way deeply rutted etc. This is not an issue of over-revving etc., nor is there anything special about my series truck (BFG Mud Terrains only - no lockers etc.). I tend to find that when I let the 90 owners drive my truck, they can't belive how much of a "climbing monster" it is! Everyone comments on the manual steering - and how they feel more "connected" to the trail. Thus, (and please tell me personal experiences otherwise ) I truly believe that the ultimate off-roader is still the old leaf-sprung Landie! Well the answers to yesterday's trivia were pretty easy - the 101 FC (also referred to appropriately as the 6 stud) is the only Land Rover whose wheels are not interchangeable! - and the only LRs with factory galvanised frames were the very early series ones (the prototype LR actually had a wooden frame - I suppose when they got the idea to make them into fire tenders, they scrapped that spec.). Today's trivia... what is a Monteverdi? (I think I gave this one away a couple of weeks ago when I wrote about them, but we'll see who remembers). Frank Twarog Burlington, VT Fond memories of days past when 90s and Classics filled the lots... From Randy Parker Fri Nov 3 12:16:28 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:16:28 -0500 From: Randy Parker Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? I have no intention of jumping into the "pilfering" debate. However, I will point out (as you probably well know) that everything on the Internet is rarely official, frequently borrowed, changes hourly, and is often worth what you pay for it. Additionally, the nature of the net is to not necessarily have an official primary web site for topics, but instead to be a collection of sites with relevant (and often competing) information. Most users would be best served by using a Lycos or Yahoo-type search site as their virtual "RoverWeb" starting page. Then any individual sites can simply register their pages with these "catalogues" in order to be listed. For an example of such (i.e. links to a number of Rover pages), see http://www.yahoo.com/Recreation/Automobiles/Land_Rover/ --RP --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Randy Parker, Roving Software Inc., Brookline, MA, USA Email: rparker@roving.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From crash@merl.com Fri Nov 3 12:17:01 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:17:01 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming Yep. I admit to "lack-o-good-judgement" on that one. But like I said, it looked like pavement till I hit it. No time to add or lose velocity- it was strictly a "come as you are" affair. I wouldn't have done it on a dare. I like my car too much for that. And (my guess) was that the water was only up to the bumper, maybe not even that, because only a little went _straight_ _up_ in front, most came out at the sides where the wheels were displacing it. Now, if I *knew* it was there, I woulda either avoided it, or walked it first with a probe pole in front to find out if there was a crevasse or other deep hole. (also to find out if it was under 20 inches deep- the magic depth number for a factory-spec V8i petrol Discovery) -Bill From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Fri Nov 3 17:22:48 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 17:22:48 GMT From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: I'm off Hi all, I've just unsubscribed for a while as I am leaving the country on business. You will have to manage without me! Unless I can get enough access to a terminal in Germany... Happy Land-Rovering, Steve From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Fri Nov 3 12:33:19 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 12:33:19 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: Isuzu/Landie contest I understand from the Off-road list that 2 Isuzus and a Disco went out somewhere in US NW, as a results of one of the Isuzu owners mouthing off to this list. I missed the report on the Off-road list, but I heard that it was a good one. Nothing about it on this list? Uh-oh... bad news? Or did I miss a report here also? Jan From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Nov 3 09:39:01 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:39:01 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Discovery Swimming Here's some other thoughts for what to replace those plastic trim pieces below the doors and between the tires on a Discovery: a) diamond plate rock sliders - or - b) Hi-lift jack "hard-points" (for jacking out of a hole) c) inflatable pontoons [like helicopters have] (for "floating" over the hole) d) retractable wings [a la "Chitty-Chitty Bang Bang"] (for just flying over the hole) ---------- From russ burns Fri Nov 3 10:08:40 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:08:40 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: D-90 one year old. Well, the D-90 hit its one year mark. 38000 miles and still rolling. At the moment it is at the dealers for some warranty repairs. The starter is acting up again. (didn't like some of those in gear starts) The hood cable works great, but I have to pull the cable 1 foot. It is also irritating when it dangles. The great LUCAS electrics are at work. It seems that when I hit a bump the lucas computer (oxymoron) turns on the check engine light, and or set the engine to LUCAS mode where it will barely run, or kill the engine all together. To cure it I just have to let the main relay disingage. This can be real interesting on the freeway at rush hour. At 70 MPH you shut off the igniton, wait 12 seconds , turn the ignition back on and proceed merrily down the pike to the next bump. The real guts comes at nite, 70mph, no power, no headlights..... I have also gotten the noise down, approaching disco level. first I dynomated the entire interior, then I found a 1" thick rubber mat for the rear cargo area. Applied a rubbermaid hardtop, and lined it with 1/2" closed cell sleeping pads. The latest endevor was to drill some vent holes under the passenger seat for "flow thu ventilation". Since I have a rear heater also installed there, I have a 3" hole in access plate. This helps keep the windows sealed, as there is a lot of positive pressure in a D-90 at 70 MPH. To cure a real annoying whisle, I traced the probem to the bottom seal on the passengers window. A applicaton of some silicon grease put a stop to that. I also tore apart the dash, and installed a 8" wide strip of porous foam behind the vents. This not only quiets down the wind noise, but should act as a dust filter. My final solution was to order a 90 SW and start over....... Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From "David McKain" Fri Nov 3 13:23:19 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:23:19 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Information Superhighway Concerning the discussion of the Rover Web: For all its worth, they should call it the disinformation highway. Anyone with a server connection can download a web page and put it up on their machine, but change the names of the innocent. This will, guaranteed, become a big problem across the WWW. FLASH - Front page of both city and college parpers with a big picture of a FJ Landcruiser on its side in a ditch, noone was hurt but, alas, the LC was burned to a crisp. David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@cemr.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From Dixon Kenner Fri Nov 3 13:44:26 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:44:26 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Nick Baggarly asked Ray Harder about the status of the > RoverWeb page and volunteers his help: You certainly have managed to acquire a mass of private correspondence and excerpt portions out of context. While Nick's message was dated the 4th of October, I must admit I didn't get my copy until the 30th of October. But you really don't care about that anyway... > R> i could pass it along to someone else (thats how i acquired it -- > ---> R> greg hiner - hiner@mail.utexas.edu did almost all the work). As I mentioned in my wee announcement, Greg took the FAQ, and built the RoverWeb around it. When Greg gave up the site, the new home was going to be in one of two sites. EMR.CA or MISSOURI.EDU. I suddnely found myself behind a firewall, and though could solve that particular problem, told Greg that I have no qualms about Ray taking over. The RoverWeb is the work of many people, Where people have written parts, they get the credit & like the OVLR newsletter, hold any copywrite. > M> the RoverWeb and-or LROA/NA, however, I am willing to help out (in > M> my limited way) to update and or revise the RoverWeb site. I think > M> it's one of the premier Land-Rover sites, along with Lloyd Allisons > M> Australian page, and should be kept current. Then volunteer to help Mr. Carridine, rather than trying to destroy. It is being updated constantly. > D> Nope. Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA. > D> LROA is listed in the clubs section, though information on > D> it will need to be updated. That is as close as it gets to > D> LROA. RoverWeb will however co-exist with another website > D> (not yet open) which relates closely to the RoverWeb. Cute, got some of my mail. You want me to post some interesting bits about your proposed LROA RoverWeb where you were going to use it as a propoganda tool for LROA? My "notta chance" came after seeing that one. Actually, since you seem to have all the correspondence, why don't you post the messages with LROA's intentions... > ---> B> Also, while preparing the OVLR site, it came to our attention that > B> the RoverWeb needed a new home. As of right now the new address of OVLR site has been in the making for months. You don't think that OVLR should have a site in your backyard, or is it you'd rather not see an OVLR site in the first place? > And on Wed, 1 Nov 1995 Dixon Kenner writes: > ---> D> Many years ago TerriAnn wrote a short 12k file about the Well, maybe between 12 and 13k, but I rounded. Betcha didn't know TerriAnn's involvement before you read that... > ---> D> (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover This was approx. the third version. Still no contributions of info or text from you at this point. If you want the current status, of the approx. 270k size, I wrote abot 250k of it, Ted Rose is in for some, TerriAnn's portion as about 1k, Greg Hiner did a bit, the original UK clubs list was from Ian Stuart, Ben Smith has done some too. I think I see all these names down in the credits list. Don't see yours anywhere. > ---> D> Ray's efforts have created the best source of Land Rover information > D> on the InterNet. The RoverWeb even managed to get publicised You don't agree? > D> available to maintain the site and it became necessary to move > ?--> D> the site yet again. I and Ben Smith have volunteered to take over You obviously have seen some of the correspondence. It was going to be moved... Now onto your message... > Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a wimper. Snubbed? After some of the stuff I have seen coming out of California this may be true. Nothing like the drubbing you're trying to hand out though... Finessed? Nope. Asked first & Ray was agreeable. This implies a done deal with backroom dealings to take it from you. Nope... Finessed also implies you had some right to it. Fricasseed? If you say so. I don't know how you feel. > It was you that started the original inquiry into the dormant status of the > RoverWeb pages on or prior to October 4, 1995, contrary to Ben Smith's last > statement that "your request came in at the last minute" and therefore too > late since "the plans to open the RoverWeb site were made 2 or 3 weeks ago". Sorry mate, again, your use of history is incorrect. Since you want to throw grenades, all of this predates Nick's message. > for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that it is being > incorporated into the LROA umbrella", apparently his obvious first choice. > Then Dixon Kenner retorts, "Nope. Not a chance that it will have anything to > do with LROA." The site, a nice large .TAR file had been transferred before these messages. LROA a first choice? Again, you are wrong. "Not a chance"? Messages from LROA folks regarding turning the RoverWeb into a sole LROA site, for membership drives, propoganda etc.? You betcha that I wasn't pleased with the idea of having some people who have undemocratically pulled off a coup in LROA go down yet another road for agrandisement. > In the mean time, Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith dismantled the RoverWeb and took > it's centerpiece, the FAQ pages, and built the OVLR page around it. Now the > RoverWeb is left as a pittance of Web page, with a only couple of gems > remaining. Look mate. I wrote the FAQ. It was built into the OVLR pages before the RoverWeb arrived. The RoverWeb exists beside the OVLR pages. Sure they are linked, but then again the site links to other club pages, including your own LROA site that Roger has written. (opps! Roger supported Brad, the loser in this coup! No wonder that you are in the process of pulling the site from him...) BTW, I've offered space on the site to BSROA and ROAV since they don't have a web site. Unfair I guess, considering you had no plans to do the same. RoverWeb will be expanded to deal with a lot of LR activities where OVLR has nothing to do with thiose activities. Seems you don't like this idea, you planning to make it a LROA centrepiece without the decency to seperate out your stuff. > So how is it that Dixon Kenner proclaims himself 'Editor' of the RoverWeb Land > Rover FAQ pages, and copyrights the material under his own name? So Ben wrote editor... You angling for the same credit? You have not been one of the leading lights here supplying material. Those that have (Greg Hiner, Ted Rose et al) get mentioned. If you submitted something, you would get mention too. Editor is generally defined is a different fashion to how you imply... Copywrite? Everything in your country has to carry some sort of copywrite. Some litigious chap would be sure to do something. Of course, the rest of the world respects the Berne Convention. We could always just mention that one... I don't see the royalty requests flowing forth, I see acknowledgements to who did what. I fail to see how I am suddenly stealing something... > And how is it that the pages are now emblazoned with the Land-Rover > logo (itself pilfered) and declared Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, > Inc. (OVLR) Web pages? The LR logo is stated to be being used without permission. There is no commercial aspect here, nor is the logo being used disrespectively. What is your point? No one can use their logo except you? Oh yeah, OVLR is an incorporated body, with a charter/constitution, bylaws, federal incorporation papers, auditing, elections, and a host of other things, noticibly absent in the LROA. You imply that this is bad? > Not to say that Dixon Kenner did not contribute to the FAQ pages and > may have a say as to their status, This is exactly what you are saying. > undertakings. But wasn't it TerriAnn Wakemann who wrote the first 12K FAQ, > that was expanded to 99K by Dixon Kenner? TerriAnn's 12 file was not a FAQ. I used portions of it, of which less than a 1k or so are still in it. Please note, I do give credit where crdit is due. You like to imply otherwise. Go read the original file sometime. Go read the various versions of the FAQ. Look and compare. Aside, you only know this because I actually wrote it. > Missouri? So who authorized Dixon Kenner to copyright the RoverWeb FAQ pages, > which if anything were in the public domain in the US, and absorb them into the > OVLR in Canada? And, how is it that a US Government site in California is a > server for an Ottawa, Canada WWW site anyway?? You are a real pain aren't you. Gotta keep firing away. You were planning far worse. As per where stuff sits on the net, it really doesn't matter one bit where files are located. You're just pissed off the site sits in your backyard. You even display an anti-Canadian attitude by implying that a Canadian can't use an American site for anything. Grow up... > invertabrae behaviour. I suggest to Dixon Kenner and OVLR that the FAQ pages > be returned to the public domain and remain in the US (where they are anyway) > as part of the RoverWeb! If there is an invertabrate here it is you... The FAQ is free to be used by anyone. Consider there to be a copyleft to be on the pages, though this is probably repungent to your ideals. "remain in the US"? How nationalistic! By what right do you now own Land Rover? You sound like you are right out of the novel "The Ugly American", tromping over all other non-Americans because they just are not as good as you are. Thankfully, very few think like you. > and "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit > completed additions from other people contributing to the work." I take this [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > linked appropriately in the RoverWeb, which in itself is the centerpiece of the > entire Land Rover community For once you got some part right. Thanks for your effort at muddying the water, acting like a spoiled child that didn't get a bauble to play with, Take a valium mate... Regards, From John Brabyn Fri Nov 3 09:56:44 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:56:44 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Who Waves? (Was Use/abuse etc.) On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, John Y. Liu wrote: > RR and Disco's never ever wave at my SIIA. Defender 90's wave only > occasionally. Defender 110's usually wave. Other Series usually stop and > get out. I find RR owners sometimes wave back, Disco owners never do, and Defenders and Series owners hardly ever do. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Fri Nov 3 11:38:48 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Subject: Subject: Re: Who Waves? (Was Use/abuse etc.) >RR and Disco's never ever wave at my SIIA. Defender 90's wave only >occasionally. Defender 110's usually wave There are probably over 1000 Discos in this town and the only acknoledgement I have recieved was a dirty look from one. As for the waving, I suspect it's difficult to drive, and wave with a cellular phone in your hand. > Other Series usually stop and get out. And the first thing they say is, " So, where do you get your parts?" g. From John Brabyn Fri Nov 3 09:52:06 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:52:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Tilt Tests On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: > > Tilt Test > The objective of the test is to ensure that engines can operate in the > most extreme off-road conditions and that oil supply and pressure > operates correctly at extreme angles. > Is this testing common to other LR's (e.g. D-90 & Disco)? No, it's only for true off-road models like Range Rovers -- not the other models which are mainly used for supermarket shopping and macho looks!! Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR and warped sense of humor From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Nov EST 1915 Date: 3 Nov 95 15:18:12 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Tilt Tests >> Is this testing common to other LR's (e.g. D-90 & Disco)? At which point bait is thrown out by: >John Brabyn >89 RR and warped sense of humor >No, it's only for true off-road models like Range Rovers -- not the other >models which are mainly used for supermarket shopping and macho looks!! Or those built for running sawmills and grain threshers.....8*) aj"Series IIa road locomotive..."r From Treit Le 3 95 Nov 1914 Date: 3 Nov 95 14:53:45 From: Treit Le Subject: You know you want this!!! For barter: (1) Very rare (but not quite as rare as the actual animal or vehicle:) poster from the recent 4-Wheeler featuring a green & white hardtop D90 about to be ventilated by a charging Rhinocerous and (1) Blank TDK VHS tape. The D90 does NOT have rhino bars, BTW. Wanted: An illicit (?) copy of the '95 Camel Trophy from the recent ESPN-2 showing on VHS. A clue as to where I can buy lamp guards and a black rubber load-space protector ('95 Classic) for significantly less than LR dealers charge. I'm in New York City. International shipment is unrealistic. Sorry. Shipping to be eaten by both parties. Reason for disposal: I hate folded posters. Incentive: If you can't buy a D90 in the next month, you might as well get the poster. Get it before I spill coffee on it. From Benjamin Allan Smith Fri Nov 03 12:42:37 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 12:42:37 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? Mike Carradine wrote: First off I don't off hand the exact date the the moving of the RoverWeb started. (I happened to nuke all of that mail because I didn't think that I would have to refer that to again.) Thinking about it, I think the initial contact between Dixon and and Ray Harder was before the mendo_recce desert trip. Which would put the communications before 6 October 1995. Someone else can date the initial post of Ray to the main LRO list. From my point of view, the history of everything goes like this: July 1995: I came back from my trip back east and wrote some Web pages to post some pictures from the OVLR birthday party for Dixon and a few others. Dixon and I discuss making an OVLR page and updating the FAQ for it. We agree to do it and work starts. Mid September: Dixon and I agree to open the OVLR page on 1 November. Late Sept/Early Oct: Ray posts to the list asking for a new Home for the Roverweb. That day Dixon asks me if it is a good idea to volunteer for it. I say yes. (When Greg Hiner gave up the RoverWeb, it was going to either Dixon or Ray, but Dixon suddenly found himself behind a firewall, so Ray got it). Dixon contacted Ray 5 October: Message dated 15:36 CDT from Ray to Dixon: Ray agreed to give the RoverWeb to us. "i will pass on the flame to you." I was busy getting ready for the desert trip so I told Ray that I would ftp the RoverWeb tar file the next week. 13 October: My files say that I ftp'd the tar file at 12:55 PDT. I untar'ed the file and verified that the binaries were intact. 17 October: I get an email from Ray addressed to Mike, Dixon and myself. Apparantly Ray thought that I would open the RoverWeb up immediately. That was this message: R> Mike, Dixon, Ben: It is not clear what arrangements are being R> made for the ROVERWEB www site, but it is my vague reading that R> it is being incorporated into the LROA umbrella. Now Ray may have been confused by the fact that he had been (unbeknownst to me) contacted by LROA, and assumed that LROA is mostly a California Club (the largest block of members is from CA at some 31% I think) and that since I live in California that my supporting the RoverWeb was related to LROA. 18 October: Dixon wrote back telling Ray that the new site is not related to LROA or any club, thought it will be next to another new Land Rover page. And that we were planning on opening both of them on 1 November. Dixon Kenner writes on Wed, 18 Oct 1995: D> Nope. Not a chance that it will have anything to do with LROA. D> LROA is listed in the clubs section, though information on D> it will need to be updated. That is as close as it gets to D> LROA. RoverWeb will however co-exist with another website D> (not yet open) which relates closely to the RoverWeb. At this point Ray seemed happy with all of this. It would have been trivial to let someone else have the site if Ray had changed his mind. 30 October: It came to my attention that LROA (via Nick Baggerly was interested in the RoverWeb (hence my comment of LROA's last minute involvement (we were opening 2 days later)) 1 November: at about 3am PST I took the access restrictions off of the pages and posted. >From the Dixon's post: D> Later, Greg Hiner took this version of the FAQ, and a longer ---> D> (115k) version and wrote the first RoverWeb for Land Rover D> owners on the Internet. Dixon also wrote that version of the FAQ. > Nick C. Baggarly wrote on Wed, Nov 1: > N> We heard a rumor that the RoverWeb needed a new home so on > N> behalf of LROA, I sent Greg Hiner and Ray Harder some email > N> on Monday asking if LROA could adopt it as the "LROA RoverWeb." Which would have been on 30 October, hence long after the move was agreed upon. Then Michael Carradine pressed his attack: > Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a wimper. > It was you that started the original inquiry into the dormant status of the > RoverWeb pages on or prior to October 4, 1995, contrary to Ben Smith's last > statement that "your request came in at the last minute" Well maybe. I do recall getting a forwarded a message recently (also deleted) that outlined how LROA was going to use the RoverWeb as a propaganda tool for LRNA. Ray agreed to give it to Dixon (and me) as of 5 October. It's a little hard to snub you when I don't see private email between to people. > As to Ben Smith's statement about the RoverWeb needing a new home, "Ray post > it on the main list 3 or 4 weeks ago. A day later he agreed to give it over [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Then Dixon Kenner retorts, "Nope. Not a chance that it will have anything t > do with LROA." A simple miscommunication between Dixon and Ray asto when we would open. Ray some equated that since I had the machine to put it on, and since I was on California that this was related to LROA. Dixon corrected this misunderstanding. > In the mean time, Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith dismantled the RoverWeb and too > it's centerpiece, the FAQ pages, and built the OVLR page around it. Now the > RoverWeb is left as a pittance of Web page, with a only couple of gems > remaining. The only things that were "removed" were things that were written (for the most part) by OVLR members. We have plans to expand on both sites putting information from OVLR members on one site and everything else on the RoverWeb. The plan for the OVLR page to have the new FAQ was decided upon by the editor of the FAQ last July. As for being "removed" the documents are on the same site and are a link away from each other. (In case you didn't notice the other thing that was moved was the writings of Mike Rooth. Mike is an OVLR member and the new additions were posted either exclusivly to a small group of OVLR members or the main list. They were used with his permission). > So how is it that Dixon Kenner proclaims himself 'Editor' of the RoverWeb > Land Rover FAQ pages, and copyrights the material under his own name? The RoverWeb used the FAQ with Dixon's permission. Dixon has been the editor since he expanded it from 12k in early 1993. Oh, and just to be clear, I took an ASCII file from Dixon and converted it to html, I did not look at how it was layed out in the RoverWeb (html wise), and did not use a line of code from the Roverweb. What you see is html in my style. As for authorship, let's take a look [size,author]: Table of Contents [4.0kb, me] Introduction, Credits, & History [2.4kb, Dixon with mods by me] Part I: Basics What is a Land Rover? [2.2kb, Dixon] Which Land Rovers were imported to North America? [9.3kb Dixon, with a little by me] Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover [17.4kb Dixon] General Maintenance (and Common Parts list [Land Rover and Aftermarket]) [9.8kb, Ted Rose, OVLR President] Tuning the 2.25l Engine [5.3kb, Dixon] Part II: Identification How Do I Identify different types of Land Rover? [34.8 kb, Dixon stared it. I added all the non Series info] Part III: Details [23.6kb, all by me] Major Events in Land Rover History North American Sales Yearly Land Rover Production Production and Dimensions by model Part IV: Specifications Engines & Gearboxes [12.4kb, Dixon] Specifications [4.7kb, Dixon] Chassis numbering [63.5kb, Dixon with SIII numbers and VIN info by me] Part V: Information Clubs [40.9kb, origionally by Ian Stuart, I rewrote it from origion sources and contacts from scratch and correspondance] Parts [6.7kb, origionally by Greg Hiner, updated by me] Magazines & publications [11.6 kb, Dixon, heavily updated by me] Part VI: Other The Camel Trophy [4.6kb, me] Famous owners of Land Rovers [4.2kb, compiled as facts are posted on the main list by me] Anti-Land Rover FAQ (or Silly Answers for Silly Questions) [16kb, as posted on the main list and other sources. Authors are noted. If T.F Mills, Pierce Reid, Sanna@aol.com or Roger Sinasohn want their contributions removed, they should email me. I have permission from the other authors.] Total: 273kb So Dixon is either the main or joint author of 161.2 kb (or 59%) I am main author of 69.1 kb (or 25%) OVLR member written stake is 240.1kb (or 88%) I'd say that give's Dixon and and especially both of us say in the matter of what happens with the FAQ. Under every copywrite discussion regarding the Internet and posts, it seems that the origional poster retains copywrite for the everything even if they do not expressly say it. As editor Dixon has copyright on the whole of the FAQ, and the parts are copyright to the origional authors. I suppose in the introduction we should give premission to distribute the FAQ provided the authors/editor are credited. I'll have to discuss this with Dixon. > And how is it > that the pages are now emblazoned with the Land-Rover logo (itself pilfered) > and declared Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, Inc. (OVLR) Web pages? OVLR, Inc is an incorporated body under the laws of Canada. It has a set of bylaws stating the purpose of the club, what the monies are to be used for, the periodocity of elections, and who can vote. I can't say the same is true for LROA. The OVLR web site was written by OVLR members for OVLR and the world. This is mentioned on every page so that if someone puts in a link to just one page, the name of the site is know. This is a very common with web pages. And yes it is mentioned that the LR logo is used without permission. (Though it is not exactly the same as the LR logo, the waters might be muddied) If I ever get an official contact from Land Rover asking for the logo to be removed, I will happily remove it and add something else. I see it as the Logo being free advertising for Rover, but they might differ. I have other ideas for a background logo that I'm working on. > But wasn't it TerriAnn Wakemann who wrote the first 12K FAQ, > that was expanded to 99K by Dixon Kenner? And wasn't it Greg Hiner who took > this small FAQ, AND a longer 115k version, and wrote the first RoverWeb putt > it at a site at the Univerity of Texas? As Ray Harder recalls, "Greg Hiner > almost all the work". And FAQwise I used 0% of the RoverWeb work. I personally did all of the FAQ html from scratch. > Was it not Ray Harder whose "efforts have created the > best source of Land Rover information on the InterNet" at an EDU site in > Missouri? So who authorized Dixon Kenner to copyright the RoverWeb FAQ page > which if anything were in the public domain in the US, and absorb them into > the OVLR in Canada? They were not in the public domain because they were not expressly put there by Dixon. In 50 years, however, under US laws.... > And, how is it that a US Government site in California is a > server for an Ottawa, Canada WWW site anyway?? Ok clarication time: Public Law 98-473, Chapter XXI, Paragraph 1030 states "Whoever knowingly accesses a computer without authorization, ... obtains ..., uses, modifies, destroys, or discloses ..., or prevents authorized use of (data or a computer owned by or operated for) the Government of the United States ... shall be punished (by) a fine or imprisonment." The punishments range up to $100,000 and 10 years, depending upon the nature and extent of the violation. If the site was a US Goverment machine (where I work) I would have to get permission by the base commander to have a public page that was not part of the mission of this base and/or the US Navy. The machine's address then would be a *.mil or *.gov. www.ridgecrest.ca.us (really owens.ridgecrest.ca.us) is part of RidgeNET which is owned by the Ridgecrest Redevelopment Agency which is tasked with using California State monies to invest in things that will economically better the communuty. RidgeNET's purpose is to bring Internet access to the citizens of Ridgecrest. I am a SysAdmin for RidgeNET and also a user. Users are allowed to create their own WWweb pages on any topic so long as there are not selling web pages. (To do that there is a different charge). I have done all of this work for the Web pages on my own time and the service is provided free of charge. > I suggest to Dixon Kenner and OVLR that the FAQ pages > be returned to the public domain and remain in the US (where they are anyway > as part of the RoverWeb! The FAQ was never put in the public domain and was used by the RoverWeb by permission of the editor. Who cares where a web page physically resides as long as access is free and unrestricted? And yes the machine that contains both the OVLR and RoverWeb pages reside in the California desert. Your point being? > As Ray Harder suggested, "feel free to point to it", > and "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit > completed additions from other people contributing to the work." I take this > to mean that anyone can, is invited and encouraged to write a portion of a FAQ Anyone can. The only proviso with the FAQ is that Dixon, as editor has control of the document as a whole. As for the RoverWeb, I'll add anything that is submitted to me. > RoverWeb, which in itself is the centerpiece of > entire Land Rover community --not just one or two Yahoo's acting on their own. No one Web site is the centerpiece of a world wide unorganized group. Lloyd Allison in Australia has a great set of pages? Does that make him a Yahoo? Almost every non comercial web page is the organizing work of one or two "yahoos" on their free time. I think that the OVLR pages, the RoverWeb and Lloyd's pages complement each other. There are other pages out there and I plan to add links to via the Roverweb (and club section of the FAQ) as I find them. It's one of the next things on my list. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From GJevne@aol.com Fri Nov 3 15:44:30 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:44:30 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: To: Pete ARB or Winch ? Pete Here we are, the experience you have been looking for, with your tips and tricks. I started out with a 1967 series llA six cylinder and added a winch and then bought a 1976 Range Rover, added a winch then later added a rear then followed with a front air locker, I found it to be beneficial learning what the car can and can't do without lockers, then when you get your lockers you will be more experienced and a better driver. But to answer your question more specifically there will be situations that you will get stuck even with lockers and you will need your winch to pull yourself out. If you have to choose one or the other you would be better off looking at the terrain that you will be driving on and decide what will be more useful to you. Greg Jevne @SAFARI GARD From BobandSueB@aol.com Fri Nov 3 15:55:22 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:55:22 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: automatic choke for series Alan and Duncan were discussing cold start problem an I answered but didn't ever see a digest for thursday. So I'm resending this. Sorry if anybody already saw it and is bothered. They were saying,. . So if you truly want a vehicle you can start and leave alone in the . driveway for minutes while it warms up, you need something with an . automatic choke...which I've never seen for a Series Rover (short of . a Chevy V-6 or Rover V-8 conversion!) It's probably worth pointing . out here that warming a vehicle up like that wastes gas, pollutes . the environment needlessly, etc. Half a minute or less of warmup . and attentive adjustment of the choke as the vehicle warms up while . you drive it down the road is the "best" approach. HI Alan and Duncan , If you want an automatic choke on a series L/R, you can do it with a weber two barrel. The usual choice is a 32/36 DGV. If you use a 32/36 DGAV instead, you get an electric choke that only needs a wire from the ignition,,(12 V when key is on) It's possible that you can find a one barrel with the same feature to use instead of the< ICH34> or whatever it is. Bob Bernard From GJevne@aol.com Fri Nov 3 15:57:12 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:57:12 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: Erik: Safari Gard Tail light tip Erik, I have done alot of playing around with the Discovery tail lights. We have found that you can modify the lights like (David Brown) said, but the fun part will be finding the light socket. We have be unable to find the part , however, we are able to import the European tail lights. Certain years you will have to modify the wiring. The late 95 model will not have to be rewired. If you have any questions feel free to E-Mail or call me and I would be glad to help. Greg Jevne @ SAFARI GARD (909)698-6114 From Dixon Kenner Fri Nov 3 16:45:21 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:45:21 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > >Have you talked to Dixon on exactly what was behind his copy right > >notice for the web page? Nope... And I love being blindsided in these things... > the work and leaving it accessible for the Land Rover community. The > copyright probably serves to prevent some private individual or company > from publishing it and keeping the $$. Yup... > product of several individuals, not just Dixon Kenner, and their effort > was donated in the spirit of common benefit and enjoyment. The work does > not belong to Dixon Kenner, although he may justly claim parts of it, and > the work certainly has nothing to do with the OVLR. Remember writing this within the last week? (amazing what has arrived in my mailbox since you forgot to take your valium this morning) >Oh, oh... The grapevine says that Ray Harder may pass the baton of the >RoverWeb site, just as he inherited it last year. This is one of the >premiere sites on the WWW, next to Lloyd Allison's Australian page. It >might be of interest to establish a site and take on the material under >the LROA banner, maybe even have a separate committee assigned to it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not for OVLR, yet it is fine if LROA takes it over eh... If you are going to shuffle arguments from the deck, it will help your cause if you don't try to take the cards from the top and bottom in different messages... > I also may assume that the pages were constructed hurriedly, that this is > a temporary form of the RoverWeb, and these abberations will be corrected. And, in light of the LROA proposal, you would propose that I change them how? Hmmmm.... Let's see... I see an OVLR site with links to the RoverWeb and I see a RoverWeb with links to the FAQ (which happens to sit in the OVLR pages). I also see links from both sites to other sites, including the LROA web site at: "http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/lroa/lroa01.htm". This is the same as your LROA-RoverWeb proposal where all were merged into one big happy site serving as a LROA propoganda tool to gather in new members? The RoverWeb is open for anyone to contribute material to. Read up on copywrite & the Berne Convention sometime... You will see that if you write something, you own those words. No one else does. The RoverWeb is there for all clubs to link into... From nadyne@bccom.com Fri Nov 3 18:25:05 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 18:25:05 -0500 From: nadyne@bccom.com Subject: Re: Disco lights..... Only if the polyester suits have contrasting top stitching! By the way, does anyone know how many polysters had to die to make each of those suits? nadyne@bccom.com From Ray Harder Fri Nov 3 16:16:04 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:16:04 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: My RoverWeb $.02 (US)... A lot of you are in the dark and want to stay there regarding the RoverWeb location. A lot of the confusion is my fault because I don't answer my mail on a timely basis (if at all). About one year ago, Dixon and I both volunteered to take on the RoverWeb from Greg Hiner. I remember saying "...you do the FAQ and I'll do the web..." When I was reminded that I wasn't investing enough time in the web page, I agreed that someone else should take it on. Dixon was the first to say he wanted it. I thought that was great, because he had wanted it earlier. We made a agreement and arrangements for the transfer... Blame me, I was confused and thought there was some connection between the LROA effort and Dixon's, but there wasn't. That confusion generated some of the quoted text. When I am busy, I read some of this LRO email awfully fast and my absorption is pretty low... FWIW, Ben's timing and recollection of the email matches mine. To me, I just want a place to point and click. And I want good content. I think this is best accomplished by shared effort and hypertext links to many machines... Sorry... (and I don't want this to generate another round of email). From Joseph Broach Fri Nov 03 17:24:51 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 1995 17:24:51 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Broach Subject: Weber 1bbl I am contemplating finally getting rid of the PO's Holly 2bbl in favor of a Weber single-throat. I have a few questions for those who have used this set-up: * Is there a noticeable performance drop from the stock Zenith? * The oil-bath air cleaner was removed when the Holly was installed. Does the Weber use the old air intake? * Manual or Automatic Choke (hate the auto on the Holly) Thanks!! '67 88" IIa -Regards, Joseph Broach Knoxville, Tennessee From David Rosenbaum Fri Nov 3 14:32:39 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:32:39 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: Picking up new RR Dear Treit, Great news about your new Range Rover!! Best wishes and hoping you have years and years and years of enjoyment with it. I am sure that you will get more specific replies to your questions about your Range Rover.......I offer a more general suggestion: be careful about salt water. Some of the most rotten cars and trucks that I've ever seen were run in salt water (and probably not washed off afterwards). If you do venture into salt water, and after trips through any muck, be be sure to wash off the chassis and the underside of your Range Rover. Ask other owners where mud etc. collects and pay attention to these areas. When I go to the coin-operated car wash, I spend 4/5ths of the time spraying the chassis, wheel wells, undersurface of body panels, etc. It is amazing how much mud and gravel and sand gets thrown up into hiding places even from just riding on dirt roads. Salt water is especially bad because it accelerates rust and corrosion (I have a Defender and salt is said to be *great* for speeding up the breakdown of dissimilar metals such as where aluminum body panels are joined to steel frame parts (electrolysis). So......HAVE FUN getting it dirty......but wash-off the undersurface and chassis afterward (leave the mud on the hood [bonnet] and fenders [wings] if you like) Best wishes, David From Alan Chamorro Fri Nov 3 18:28:55 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 18:28:55 -0600 From: Alan Chamorro Subject: Discovery tire size I own a LR Discovery 95 with Michelin 4X4 235/70/16 tires. I would like to install wider tires such as Pirelli Scorpion II size 255/65/16 which have the same height but are wider by 20 mm. Will they fit on my 95 Discovery? From David Rosenbaum Fri Nov 3 14:42:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:42:33 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: D-90 one year old. Dear Russ: Congratulations on your D-90s first birthday! 38,000 miles? In a year, in a Land Rover? That's living! Let us know what the SW is like and what the '94 thinks about it. Best wishes, David From asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Fri Nov 3 14:20:29 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 14:20:29 PST From: asmith@BayNetworks.COM (Andrew Smith) Subject: Re: To: Pete ARB or Winch ? > From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com Fri Nov 3 13:02:51 1995 > From: GJevne@aol.com [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > X-To: lro@land-rover.team.net > Subject: To: Pete ARB or Winch ? Greg, > 1976 Range Rover, added a winch then later added a rear then followed with > a front air locker, I found it to be beneficial learning what the car can > and can't do without lockers, then when you get your lockers you will be more > experienced and a better driver. Can you explain for us neophytes what an "air" locker is - I assume some special sort of diff lock, no? Did you have any suggestions for the thread a few weeks back on replacing the 'tween-the-wheel-arches plastic trim steps/strips on new Discos with something a bit stronger (but more practical than CCBB wings, Bob)? > Greg Jevne @SAFARI GARD > a front air locker, I found it to be beneficial learning what the car can Andrew Smith Palo Alto CA USA '96 Discovery From Lloyd Allison Sat Nov 4 12:26:51 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 12:26:51 +1100 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: digest Bill C's policy is that anyone on the `list' who has mailer problems is quickly put on the `digest' - the list generates ~50 errors if, for example, your mailbox gets full, your mailer professes not to know you etc. (Can't remember which it was for rc). I've just been following that policy. Just send mail to majord' when normal service is resumed or unsub the digest and (re-)subscribe the list Many machines don't know the `.us' domain - but the number that do is increasing as the domain's use does. Have you told yahoo and wwworm about RoverWeb's new URL ? Some sites still pointed to Greg Hiner quite recently. Lloyd From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 03 95 Nov EST 1920 Date: 03 Nov 95 20:58:04 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: trivia The 101 FC wheels have 6 stud fixing and will not fit the axles of any other Land Rover The first 50 80" land rovers had a galvanised chassis Alan the ser 2 turn indicator was an optional extra, a timer switch on the bulkhead , th fore runner to the rubber wheel switch on the steering wheel centre I may even have one somewhere in my parts box. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From WAHORN@aol.com Fri Nov 3 21:00:13 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 21:00:13 -0500 From: WAHORN@aol.com Subject: Re: Door Sills Well, here it is my first posting to LRO. I currently am undergoing a restoration or at least my SIIa 109" is and I am having trouble finding new or used 5" sills. You know the things under the doors ? Anyone have any laying around ? Thanks Ashley Horn P.S. I am in Jacksonville FL. From Chris Haslam Fri Nov 3 23:07:09 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 23:07:09 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Haslam Subject: RR Brake Squeal A friend has found a total solution to break squeal on a Rover SD1. I have it here: it's made by Lucas and the Part Number is SP4077. Cost for sufficient for one axle: Cdn $4.00 It's the aluminum plate (or whatever) someone else was mentioning. My source: Britsh Motor Spares in La Prairie, Quebec. Phone: 514 444-2900. ...chris From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Fri Nov 3 23:23:54 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 23:23:54 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Re: Door Sills In a message dated 95-11-03 21:17:13 EST, WAHORN@aol.com writes: >Well, here it is my first posting to LRO. I currently am undergoing a >restoration or at least my SIIa 109" is and I am having trouble finding new [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >or used 5" sills. You know the things under the doors ? Anyone have any >laying around ? Ashley: You might place a call to Harrell Motor Sales in Waynesville NC. Address and phone number are as follows: Harrell Motor Sales 1101 N. Main St. Waynesville NC 28786 (704) 456-8603 Harrells is a small two man operation consisting of Leroy Harrell, (elderly now) and Ted, his chief (and only) mechanic, who's been there more than 40 years now. Harrells was an authorized dealer in the Series days. Dropped his dealership mid ' 70's. Still there servicing and re-selling Series Rovers. Old Rover burial ground out behind shop. May have what you need. Tell 'em where the free advertising came from, maybe they'll give me a discount next trip there. ;-) Or.......I'll sell you a complete set of 5" sills in excellent condition for a mere $8650.00 and through in the rest of the Rover to go with them. ;-) Cordially: Rick Crider KD4FXA Monroe NC 66 Slla 109" Hugo .......for sale......... 73 Slll 88" Jesse 88 Range Rover From Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) 04 1995 Nov GMT 1904 Date: 04 Nov 1995 04:45:46 GMT From: Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) Subject: Parts Leslie, I was wondering if you are located in the London area? I am going to be in London starting Dec. 12. I was thinking of trying to find a few small parts that are rather exspensive over on this side of the kingdom. I am looking for the door top and side pieces for the canvas tilt. My friend has all the other parts and I was thinking maybe they could be had used for a fair price or new. no preference as to new or used. Any suggestions or are you not even in the London area? Thanks Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -- ......................................................................... WestNet, the Information Service for People with a Passion for this Place Modem: 406-442-3697 (28,800/8-N-1) Info via Internet: westnet@desktop.org Sponsored by Desktop Assistance, Inc. Info via Internet: info@desktop.org ......................................................................... From Matt Neibaur Sat Nov 4 00:02:49 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 00:02:49 -0500 From: Matt Neibaur Subject: Discovery Woes Discovery owners: Just a little follow up. My 95 Discovery broke down at 8,000 miles. It turned out to be a bad alternator. They changed it out and the fuse panel as well. It seems to be running OK. The 7,500 mile service cost around $49. The other warranty items ran about $300. The Legend continues, \|/ o(0 0)o +----oOO----(_)-----------+ | Matt Neibaur | | matt@jax.gttw.com | +------------------oOO----+ |__|__| || || ooO Ooo From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Sat Nov 4 00:59:37 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 00:59:37 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Web Roving: Help All my fellow LRO listees: I realize this query is not directly Land Rover related, and I'll be glad to search elsewhere if someone who is computer literate will point me in the right direction. I have Web access through my membership with America Online. I can access AOL at 9600 or 14400 baud. Tried to pull up a couple of the Land Rover Web Pages. Took more than one minute (at 14400) for my 'home page', which shows an address of http://www.blue.aol.com, to appear on my screen. When I typed in the address for the Australian page, (......monash,tilde, etc. etc.) it took an agonizing TWELVE MINUTES for it to appear. When it did appear the graphics were incomplete and terrible. I can cut down on the time by eliminating the graphics feature but that seems half the fun of it. Once it did appear the scrolling was again agonizingly slow and choppy. A shot of scotch and a valium would be required to tolerate the speed. ;-) I have a 486 DX33 machine with only 4 megs of ram. Is this the problem? Also, will I be able to create my own web page if desired? Will I use my 'home page' address of http://www.blue.aol.com....? I do feel that I'm missing something not being able to access the Rover Web items easily. Any suggestions appreciated. Others on the list may be experiencing the same problem. If you'd rather not tie up the list space feel free to email me directly. Again, I'll be happy to search else where if I just know where. Thanks to all for all help, past, present and future. Cordially: Rick Crider KD4FXA Monroe NC USA 66 Slla 109" Hugo ..........for sale.......... 73 Slll 88" Jesse 88 Range Rover From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Sat Nov 04 00:48:46 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 00:48:46 -0600 (CST) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: 7500 mile service(s) There's no reason to; all they do is check a bunch of hoses and change the oil. The oil change is $20-30; the rest is crap they charge you for that is easily performed in one's garage--check the manual. >I called up 3 dealers in my area and found that the 7500 mile service on a '95 >Classic runs $45-54. Are all the services subsidized and equally cheap? Can you >have multiple 7500 mile services? Like every 3,000 miles for instance? Henry B. Wilson http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb henben@aol.com (currently most reliable) or wilsonhb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu '59 AHY 100-6 '94 Disco "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy. Life is perfect." From Lloyd Allison Sat Nov 4 23:22:27 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 23:22:27 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Trivia ok, Robert Dennis has it like lightning: RR SII was codenamed Discovery in development So the next question is of course, what was Disco's code name ???? Who is going to form the trivia web page - please. --- Roverweb - please calm down, it hurts my ears! Save the flames for Jeeps. btw. you don't need to `copyright (c)' stuff - it automatically is, but it is probably worth (c) emphasising the point, although none of us has the money to enforce (c) anyway. Heck, let's test OVLR's sense of humour: I thought `....ca.us' was Canada.us are you telling me it's califonia after all? However: D McKain raised the super-disinformation-highway-bahn issue. There are some shining examples of * authoritative * web sites: . Internet movie database . web museum (ex Louvre) to name but two. I doubt those two can ever be "rolled". They have such a clear aura about them and there seems to be huge collective goodwill (and some $) to keep them going. Just maybe Hollywood Inc. will swamp the movie DB and maybe Bill Gates will buy the real Louvre [*] and web it but I can't see any other challengers in the near future. The LR situation is that there are a few so-so sites (my trivial effort included, (although there have been some great contributions :-) ) that sort of overlap and sort of refer to each other in ad-hoc ways, but the whole is not very *web-like*. Now maybe that suits true sons (and DOLs daughters) of Lucas, maybe it's as good as one can get, but maybe something better could be done? I guess it doesn't matter very much, but - any (cool) thoughts? ( The Movie DB is distributed and mirrored. The webMuseum seems to be just mirrored, so I suppose it's not really distributed. ) --- Re slow access at www.cs.monash.edu.au ... it *might be* 'cos our LAN carked it, was RS, went belly up, became a later LAN, last night. This was not because it is powered by Lucas, it is because the Honours students' final reports are due on Monday - annual crash. Lloyd [*] btw. has anyone got a picture of that ****** RR in the Louvre? From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Sat Nov 4 07:38:23 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 07:38:23 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Re: Series II turn Signal stalk - different from S.II? >In thumbing through my manuals I've noticed that the Series IIa late and >Series [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >design that does not require a puck wheel. >If so, how does the b****y thing work, and does anyone think it'll fit an SIIa? My late IIA (1969) does not have the returner thingy, you have to turn it off manually. Of course, you can leave it on...left or right...and just tell those who honk at you you're warming up for a turn. Chris From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Nov 04 12:16:25 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 12:16:25 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? Michael Carradine grumbles... > Well, Nick, we've been snubbed, finessed, and fricasseed with only a > wimper. Yak, yak, yak... I certainly am glad that I pay for time on Delphi AND long-distance phone charges so that I can read drivel like this *and* the resulting flak (which will of course include *this* message). Who gives a flying hoot where the RoverWeb is located and who maintains it, just as long as it is accessable and viable. Seems to me that it would disappeared if *someone* didn't take it over. As to the LROA issue, what's your point? Take it over yourself. I'm on a text-only off-line link, so I never actually get to see what the WWW is or involves, but from what I understand, the physical location of the data is more or less transparent to the user, or should be. The assorted web pages are linked together, so that the user can access the greatest amout of information with a minimal amount of searching. If that is the result of these moves then I would say that someone has done a good job. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) Got no stinkin' Web page... From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Nov 04 12:17:07 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 12:17:07 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: D-110 on blocks. > Border Collies and Land Rovers go together so well it's uncanny. Both are > worth rescuing from poor situations. If I had the space, 10 square miles / A friend of mine who raises Border Collies (but does NOT have a Land Rover) has a Border Collie book with a picture of a few of the beasties chained up in the back of an 88. Cute! Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Nov 04 12:17:15 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 12:17:15 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Disco lights..... > Am I alone, or is anyone else irretrievably linking this discussion to > mirrored > balls hung in dance clubs and white polyester suits? Heh,heh,heh,heh,heh,heh,heh...... Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Nov 04 12:16:35 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 12:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Who Waves? (Was Use/abuse etc.) John Liu sez... > RR and Disco's never ever wave at my SIIA. Defender 90's wave only > occasionally. Defender 110's usually wave. Other Series usually stop and > get out. Does that mean that you are stopped at the time?? :) I actually had some woman in a Disco come looking for me to comment on my IIa. I was impressed. Actually, being out in the woods, I don't see too many Rovers of any sort. I get more waves from Jeep owners than anything else!! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Nov 04 12:16:59 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 12:16:59 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Stuff Frank Twarog comments.. > the trail rides I've done this year, my series car has never gotten > stuck, yet every one of the Def 90s (including mine) tend to find there > way deeply rutted etc. This is not an issue of over-revving etc., nor is / Interesting... I would have speculated that driver inexperience woulbe be the cause (having seen this first-hand) but you say that your own D90 is prone to this. With you driving or someone else? Does having that monsterous V-8 power lull one into a false sense of security? I used to ride with a local 4WD club. On one spring-time run, we had a long, muddy hill to climb. Everyone else, with American V-8 powered pickups and Jeeps attacked the hill at full throttle, tires spinning, mud flying. I hit the hill in 2nd gear, low range and walked right up. When I got to the top, someone said "Hey, you don't spin your tires." My reply was "I don't need to." Probably more accurately, my Ser III couldn't - but I wasn't going to admit that! > Well the answers to yesterday's trivia were pretty easy - the 101 > FC (also referred to appropriately as the 6 stud) is the only Land Rover > whose wheels are not interchangeable! - and the only LRs with factory / I guess you're not including conversions like the Cuthbertson, the Roadless Traction Forest Rover and the Centaur... > Today's trivia... what is a Monteverdi? (I think I gave this one > away a couple of weeks ago when I wrote about them, but we'll see who > remembers). / Speaking of conversions... Monteverdi was/is a Swiss firm that does custom conversions on Range Rovers. Cheers Mike From yoshio@osak.ac.jp, agc03255@niftyserv.or.jp, agc03895@niftyserv.or.jp, Mon Nov 6 01:22:38 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:22:38 +0900 From: yoshio@osak.ac.jp, agc03255@niftyserv.or.jp, agc03895@niftyserv.or.jp, Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular USA Titles -----> NOTE: Please first read my note which appears below the "Request for more info Form." Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request for More Info" form completely and email it back to the company. To make it easier for you to reply, I have put their address in the "Reply-To" field, which means you can just use your email software to reply to this message in order to get that address to pop-up in your "To:" field. <----- *------------cut here-----------------------------------------------* REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please return *only* this section only via internet email to: potential_new_members_FREE_catalogue_by-email@0.5.5.1.7.6.9.8.1.7.1.tpc.int Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged. If you do not have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you until you do have one. If you saw this message, then you should have one. :) Name: Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: Name of USA mags you currently get on the newstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when they call you: Catalogue format desired from below two choices: (1. 19-part email message; 2. atttached file by email; see below on which format may be best for you). How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Yoshio Koseki's referral 110495-l *------------cut here-----------------------------------------------* {{{Note- 19-part email can be received by anyone with any computer. Attached file format may not be for you: it is sent as an uncompressed 525K file formatted in Microsoft World on a Mac; if you don't use Microsoft Word on a Mac - you will have to know how to convert into a usable text format. They cannot help you with this. If in doubt, they suggest you go with the universally acceptable 19-part email message. You can always manually spend a few minutes pasting the parts into one whole.}}} Hi fellow 'netters, My name is Yoshio Koseki and I recently started using a magazine subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them. They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a subscription basis. As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles. Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newstands charge. They feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! This is their price guarantee. Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and cut-out all the middlemen. They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student. I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my part-time software business! Please fill out the below form and email to them at: potential_new_members_FREE_catalogue_by-email@0.5.5.1.7.6.9.8.1.7.1.tpc.int *NOTE: to make it easier for you to reply, I have put their address in the "Reply-To" field, which means you can just use your email software to reply to this message in order to get that address to pop-up in your "To:" field.* They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet. They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it. They have been very helpful and helped me change my address from the USA to Finland and then back again when I moved last month. They are very knowledgeable about addressing mags worldwide. They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from a special list of over 300 popular titles published in the USA. They will give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular USA titles they sell. They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have clients in around 35 or 36 countries now. Outside the USA there is a charge for foreign postage and handling (on both paid and freebie subs) that varies from magazine to magazine. I have found their staff to be very friendly and courteous. They even helped me with an address change when I moved from one country to another. The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members" (even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts as a new member. When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes he has one of his assistants call. He is kind of quirky sometimes - he insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!), but you can place future orders (after your first order) via E-mail. He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know just as much as he does about this magazine stuff. If you live overseas, he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long distance rates are cheaper then. He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately when you call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new members the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased their staff. I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above form to them, that is the way to get started! They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly, no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and answer all your questions. Once you get in, you'll love them. I do. Sincerely, Yoshio Koseki ps. please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net who you think might be interested in it! It is a great deal! If you join and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for each new person you get to join after you join! If you exceed 25 referrals, they let you use them to give away as gifts, for Christmas, Chanukah or any other occasion. Please be kind enough to mention my name when you join. I will then get a free magazine for a year for referring you. Thank you. From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Sat Nov 4 13:14:42 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 13:14:42 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Me? Causing Problems? In a message dated 95-11-04 06:01:18 EST, Lloyd Allison wrote: >Subj: land-rover-owner >Date: 95-11-04 06:01:18 EST [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >regards >Lloyd I have just today received the above message from Lloyd Allison. I have no idea why my address would trigger problems. I generate very little email and the LRO list is the ONLY list that I subscribe to. All my email seems to arrive just fine. Now I'm a bit embarrassed.....anyone know what to look for? Thanks all. Cordially: Rick Crider From Dixon Kenner Sat Nov 4 14:39:23 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 14:39:23 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Trivia On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Lloyd Allison wrote: > I thought `....ca.us' was Canada.us are you telling me > it's califonia after all? For now. They are just holding the .ca.us until Canada joins the USA. By then California will have sunk into the sea (probably from the weight of court transcripts of various OJ trials... :-)) and it will be available again... :-) From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sat Nov 04 11:55:07 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 11:55:07 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: RoverWeb FAQ Dixon Kenner writes: D>On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: D>> > IMO, the more LR sites the merrier. Just make damn sure the RoverWeb D>> > continues to thrive and expand and doesn't get absorbed into OVLR. D> D> The unfortunate thing here is that I should have just let Michael D> have the RoverWeb to play with. The OVLR site was going to have D> the new version of the FAQ anyway. LROA-RoverWeb would have had D> version 2 of the FAQ, OVLR version 3. Game finished. Now you're getting it, guys! Your condescending language aside, with the announcement of a new home for the RoverWeb we expected to find the entire RoverWeb moved to another site, nothing more or less. As the RoverWeb opening manifesto declares, "This is a web for and about Land Rovers and archives, hopefully, some of the collected wisdom of the LRO mailing list." To me, the charm of the RoverWeb was the neutral treatment of the subject of Land Rovers and its value as a storehouse of information or connections to relevant links. If there is new material published somewhere it can be indexed in the RoverWeb FAQ, and a link can be established to that individual page or site. That new page can be anywhere and maintained by anyone, an individual or a club, etc. If a good FAQ link goes to a vanity page, so be it, it might be compared to changing a television station from PBS to ABC/CBC/NBC/CNN. To move the entire FAQ out of the RoverWeb site destroys the Land Rover archive function leaving the RoverWeb nothing more than a collection of trivia and curios, and in the process shuts down the volunteer and material contribution process. The Land Rover community would be better served with the RoverWeb remaining as a clearinghouse for Land-Rover connected material with the FAQ as its centerpiece, even if its version 2 or whatever, and even if 90%+ of the material links go to other sites. As Ray Harder suggested, "To have a quality site, one person would own the master page and solicit completed additions from other people contributing to the work" which certainly can be links to other sites. _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 __________._______.____.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^======o.._______________ ____________________________________________________________________________ * Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html * From Dixon Kenner Sat Nov 4 15:19:36 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 15:19:36 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RoverWeb FAQ On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: In the interest of putting some water on this tirade of yours, this is the only answer you shall receive... Someday you may discover the benefits of private e-mail, so until then I must note you again forgot to take your prozac/valium mixture today. Now, I must attend to a plough harness for the 109, which I note rates light-years above your concerns. Rgds, Dixon From GJevne@aol.com Sat Nov 4 17:27:45 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 17:27:45 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: Discovery ROCK-SLIDERS > Did you have any suggestions for the thread a few weeks back on replacing > the 'tween-the-wheel-arches plastic trim steps/strips on new Discos with something > a bit stronger (but more practical than CCBB wings, Bob)? Mr Smith, Now that we are not confused here's a answer to your question. Picture in you mind the black plastic trim being removed and replaces with rectangular tubing with welded capped ends, then powder coated , finally fitting to the mounting brackets that the originals did, maintaining similar looks yet strong enough to Hi-Lift the side of your Rover off the ground and can also be charged with an ARB air compressor @110 PSI, great for tires and increasing your CFM. Thanks Greg @ Safari Gard From "John C. White III" Sat Nov 4 15:48:01 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 15:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Disco lights..... Well, now that you mention it, there was that commercial for Range Rovers on a couple of years ago where they demonstrated the adjustable suspension to disco music. It also came with a "Kids, don't try this at home" caveat. Cheers! John '95 Discovery, gettin' down with its bad self On 3 Nov 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Am I alone, or is anyone else irretrievably linking this discussion to mirrored [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > balls hung in dance clubs and white polyester suits? > aj"Stayin' alive"r From "John C. White III" Sat Nov 4 16:00:32 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 16:00:32 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Discovery Woes Huh, Matt? Did your dealer really chare you to replace the defective alternator even though your Landie's still on warranty? How did he justify that? Cheers! John '95 Discovery (11,500 miles) On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Matt Neibaur wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Discovery owners: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] > |__|__| > ooO Ooo From Lou Goldring Jr Sat Nov 4 17:58:03 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 17:58:03 -0700 From: Lou Goldring Jr Subject: Re: D90 sagging suspension I drive a '94 Defender 90 (no. 324) with an ARB Bull Bar that holds a Warn 10,000lb. winch. I also have the rear seat and some gear in back. The Bull Bar weighs about 50 lbs more than the OEM Brush Bar, the winch weighs 135 lbs and the gear in back weighs around 100 to 150 lbs. I think this additional weight has overworked my suspension and as a result it rides lower that it should. I went to the dealer and I compared my 90 to one on the lot. Mine was about 1.5 in. lower in front and .75 in. lower in the rear. I have been thinking about installing the Old Man Emu coil springs (751 front,758 rear) in an effort to regain my lost ride height and more importantly my lost wheel travel. I would also install Bilstein shocks. Any information about how these springs and shocks perform would be greatly appreciated. From Kurt Horton Sat Nov 4 20:29:42 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 20:29:42 -0500 (EST) From: Kurt Horton Subject: Erik: DISCO Tail lights Erik, The multicolor Disco Tail lights were std. on European Discos but for some reason DOT or LR put the turn signals in the bumpers on North American Discos. However a Mr Greg Jevne maker of "Safari Gard" Products has current stock on shelf for your vehicle. He has a buisness that commonly upgrades / replaces stock bumpers with much beefier and more protective Front and Rear bumpers (without those all too easy to smash bumper turn Signals.) In their place he puts back in the European style lamps. Give him a call at (909) 698-6114 he will help. PS The 96 Discos will come with the multicolor tail lights. I don't know why the change, but the dealer will be more expensive if they have them yet. end Thanks, Kurt Horton (khorton@deming.mdc.com) From GElam30092@aol.com Sat Nov 4 21:55:12 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 21:55:12 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Overheat light - transmission You wrote "I performed a similar feat here in PA, USA. I splashed so much water that I made a wave that went over a few lanes of traffic, completey inundating a BMW, which made me chortle with glee. My wife thought I was nuts, and maybe I am, but the point of my reply is that I managed to somehow wash the transmission over heat switch into a malfunction, as well as remove one of the quarter panel marke lights from it's socket. If you have a mnual xmissino you might need to check for water in your case methinks." Funny that you should mention the transmission "hot" light. On our last outing, we crossed the Verde River on a Saturday afternoon. The water depth was about 30" (according to Dave Brown!! which we got James Howard to "walk" first! Thanks! James) and we had no problems with the crossing. We each created a nice bow wave and pushed it all the way across the river. No water entered my Discovery and I didn't create any excess waves (at least like those described in the most recent postings.) Well, early the next day, the transmission hot light came on. Now, I've driven in the desert for hours on end with the outside temp well over 110 degrees and I know when the automatic transmission is HOT. On this particular day, it couldn't have been that hot. We had only been driving for an hour with the outside temp at about 45 degrees and I was never even in low/locked. We continued on the drive (we were 45 miles from pavement) and the light went out. The light made a return visit tonight. I had been driving (pavement, averaging 65 mph for 30 minutes) when I got on the interstate. I pushed it hard up the on-ramp and opened up for a few miles approaching 100 mph. The light came on again and I immediately slowed to a more reasonable 65. I was all prepared to drop the Discovery off at the dealer's tomorrow for them to check it out. I have no doubt that the transmission is operating normally but..... I thought maybe there is a filter obstructed or something. Maybe Mr. Lucas is alive in my Discovery. (On another note: at least if I take it to the dealer's, they'll return it all nice and clean... nahhhhhh.......) Anyone else had this problem? Tom Des Jardins.... what was the fix for the malfunction of your overheat light? Thanks... Gerry Phoenix AZ "Dirtiest Disco in Phoenix....Ah Ah Ah Ah Stayin Alive, Staying Alive" From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Sat Nov 4 20:41:57 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 20:41:57 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: Re: Web Roving: Help Rick, this performance problem doesn't surprise me at all, but it may have more to do with the server in Australia than with you or AOL. I just tried to get to the site myself. It's Saturday (Sunday in Oz) and I'm using a PC on a LAN with a T1 (1.44 mbit/sec.) link to the Net. Still, I had to wait a minute or so for the page even to start loading, and it took another minute or more to finish, even at this speed. It's a shame, since this is one of the most informative and graphics-rich pages about Land Rovers on the Web. I did, however, want you (and others) to know that you're not alone in your disappointment. >When I typed in the address for the Australian page, (......monash,tilde, >etc. etc.) it took an agonizing TWELVE MINUTES for it to appear. When it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Rick Crider KD4FXA >Monroe NC USA Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From "T.F. Mills" Sat Nov 4 22:41:29 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 22:41:29 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: LR Border Collies < > Border Collies and Land Rovers go together so well it's uncanny. Well, let's see... Sandy Grice has a BC named Lucas. I have a BC not named Lucas, but he's pretty dim. We both lug our collies around in IIA Land Rovers. We both edit Land Rover newsletters, with no help from our border collies (mine has been known to misplace a few pages). I have a son named Sandy... Mr G lives in a colorful state called Virginia. I live in a virgin land called Colorado. What does all this mean? It's almost as bad as the Lincoln-Kennedy "coincidences". T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From Lloyd Allison Sun Nov 5 20:33:58 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 20:33:58 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: monash access time It was taking me 12 minutes to login on Saturday! I'd be interested to know how long it takes to load a page *on Monday Australian EST after 12 noon* after it has been fixed up Lloyd From Alan Smedley Sun Nov 05 21:50:58 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:50:58 -1000 From: Alan Smedley Subject: Re: Shock Absorbers on '92 Range Rover I have owned a '92 Ramge Rover for the last few months. It had only done 47,000Kms when purchased and now has just over 61,00Kms. I recently had to replace the shock absorbers and chose on advice from the dealer I purchased the vehicle from here in the outer west of Sydney - John Davis Motorworks - the Koni Oil filled replacements. The ride is now really teriffic, Only problem is it now shows up the few squeeks and rattles that exist. Haven't really tried it off road much yet but I have been on a couple of rough tempory gravel roads and the vehicle is much better than with the standard shocks. I had Bilstiens on my previous Ranger Rover, but I think this one is better with the Koni's. The Steering damper was also a bit sad and my the dealer recomended the Bilstein unit as a replacement. In the process of fitting the new unit he recomended adding brackets to fit the old damper to the front steering arm as it damps down any remaining movement from the steering. I am really pleased I took his advice as now the vehicle drives on (Sydney's rougher) city roads without any wander at all. I really find it much better. My wife noticed the improvement too. From Alan Smedley Sun Nov 05 21:51:00 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:51:00 -1000 From: Alan Smedley Subject: Re: 3.9 Range Rover fuel consumption Can anyone make suggestions as to how best I can improving the fuel economy of my '92 3.9 Range Ronver. I am getting around 300Kms per tank of unleaded fuel where as I was consistantly getting over 400Kms on my previous Range Rover, an '87 Highline with over 210,000Kms on the clock when I sold it. On both vehicle I was able to achieve about 600Kms on country trips, with a similar load on board. On the '87 model I improved the fuel consumption a bit after adding exrtractors and a 2.5 inch exhaust system but I "cannot see" a change like that on the '92 accounting for the difference I am seeing. It has also been suggested that I have the computer reprogrammed but at $AU550.00 and around $AU1500:00 for extractors and a stainless steel exhoust its a lot to spend in what could not gain what I am looking for in fuel consumption. Aside from driving on eggshells any suggestions would be appreciated. Can anyone explain the big difference in economy between the 3.5 and the 3.9 engines? I have spoken with owners who regularly get around 400Kms per tank in city driving conditions after having the engine bored and stroked to 4.7 litres. From Alan Smedley Sun Nov 05 21:55:52 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:55:52 -1000 From: Alan Smedley Subject: Please Explain Land Rover Models I ahve been subscribing to the LRO Digest for a couple of weeks and I have noticed code names used on the list for vehicles I am not familiar with. Can someone enlighten (possible a number of readers) as to what the similarities are of vehiles Internationally and what they are called in different Land Rover Sales regions. From JCassidyiv@aol.com Sun Nov 5 08:26:55 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:26:55 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Disco Steering Probs I'm writing about my wife's '95 Disco(10,200 miles) which for the last week has had a squeaking/moaning sound in the cabin when the steering wheel is turned either left or right. This has progressed from an intermittent problem to a constant one. It happens when the cabin is both cold and warm, and there has been no recent offroading with the vehicle. Any ideas, or anyone with similar problems? It's quite annoying. Cheers! John 1995 Disco 1987 RR(with OME springs-I love 'em) 1966 IIA 88" Petrol(STILL under resto.) From monk@math.udel.edu Sun Nov 5 10:37:03 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:37:03 -0500 From: monk@math.udel.edu Subject: Off road in DE,PA,MD Hi Does anyone have suggestions for off road driving areas in south eastern Pennsylvania, Delaware, Northern Maryland or the DelMarVa penninsula? My disco thanks anyone who answers... Peter Peter Monk Department of Mathematical Sciences Phone: 302-831-1873 University of Delaware FAX : 302-831-4511 Newark, DE 19716 USA From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 5 95 Nov EST 1910 Date: 5 Nov 95 10:28:23 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Lucked out, but need help.... Whilst browsing my favorite junkyard yesterday, I ran across a Lumenitron ignition system on the remains of an ancient MGB. I got the firewall box and the wiring attached to it, but someone had removed the engine and distributor and as such I could not grab the bit that goes in the 25D4 distributor. Anybody got any suggestions as to wherre I can buy the distributor innartds to go with the bit I grabbed? (preferably a US supplier). aj"Packrats R" Us"r From "Craig R. Jett" Sun Nov 5 10:47:41 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:47:41 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: RE: Disco Steering Probs John, I have the same problem with a squeak in the steering column, but only = when the Disco is cold. When the cabin warms up everything is norm. My = problem started 2 weeks after the purchase, My '95 Disco with leather = had been delievered with the standard steering wheel, not the leather = wrapped which it should have. The dealer didn't want to give me = anything off the leather price, but offered to swap it out for a leather = wrapped one, I agreed, I wish I hadn't. The problem has not been that = bad, weather here in PA has not, until this weekend, been that cold. I = plan to tell the dealer about it at the 15K service which will be some = time shortly after Thanksgiving. I'll post the outcome of that service = trip, unless anyone else has a resolve, before then. Craig Jett 1995 Disco ---------- From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Nov 5 08:34:18 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 95 08:34:18 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. - my comment on all of this web site stuff... *WOW!* I feel like an altar boy who caught the priest guzzling wine after communion... My thoughts tend to follow those voiced by *FERN* Let's appreciate what functionality it offers the enthusiast. Someone will always have to put in many hours of thankless work so that others might take it all for granted. That's human nature. - D90 stuff. There are precious few ragtops in dealer inventories as we speak. No pitch intended but if anyone has been contemplating the purchase of one - start making calls now. Metro West is still accepting orders but we cannot guarantee that we can fill all of the orders. -D90SW stuff. Don't know how many of the 500 allocated units have no orders - but I have been receiving private postings with inquiries. Strategy? See previous paragraph. -D110 on blocks. Wasn't intended to ivory tower this vehicle - only to illustrate that it is a really clean truck! I suppose you can think of it as... If I'm going to be paying new car money for a truck, then this particular example is as new car as I've seen... I can't really imagine anyone trashing a NAS D110 - even if they had brought in 5000 of them and the resale numbers weren't what they are. I never looked at a lwb Land Rover as a *trasher* That's what they invented SWB for! -The fellow with the starter problem. That should have all been warranty covered. I'm also confused as to why he had to shell out additional 300 bucks. -D90 springs. ARB/10000# Warn setup is very heavy - yes. You should experience sag quickly with the stock springs. OME springs high enough rate and will also raise ride height and increase wheel travel. I am putting LR D110 rear springs on mine - my need was to maintain stock ride height (garage door clearance w/Hella 3000s on top!) but to obtain the higher spring rate to avoid sag. Mark at RN very helpful in this regard so we decided on the D110 setup - they sell both BTW. -Fellow w new classic RR. Congrats. No, running boards will not alter ground clearance. The 8.1" is under the diffs. It will affect body clearance with the ground however. If you're doing severe off-roading and rock climbing, expect some damage to these - however they can prevent damage to the sills/body. I'd rather bend the boards than the body! -Worked the Metro West booth at NE auto show yesterday. Crowd magnets - all models. But, which one drew the biggest crowds? Yep. The D90. Never fails. Couldn't believe we shared space with.... Suzuki!!! They had this silly little thing called an *X90* up on a turntable. A gorgeous blonde was standing by it - not extoling its virtues. I asked her if she had an order in on one yet. *Are you kidding* was the response. Most people I overheard after looking at it....*is it a real car?* I don't expect this to be an overwhelming sales success. Suzi should have stuck to bikes. Line extension can be a killer! So, I hope that there are no plans to produce Land Rover pianos or electric guitars. cheerz Jim - babbling all the way to armageddon `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From "John C. White III" Sun Nov 5 10:02:23 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 10:02:23 -0800 (PST) From: "John C. White III" Subject: RE: Disco Steering Probs For what it's worth, I have the same squeak on mine when I first drive it. I don't think it has anything to do with the leather as it seems to be deeper in the steering column than that. It sounds more like plastic bearing seals or some such rubbing together. It's fairly faint, undamaging sounding and only lasts about five minutes, so I've chalked off as part of my Landie's character. If your dealer finds out otherwise, please post it to the list. Cheers! John '95 Discovery On Sun, 5 Nov 1995, Craig R. Jett wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > John, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 46 lines)] > 1987 RR(with OME springs-I love 'em) > 1966 IIA 88" Petrol(STILL under resto.) From "Craig R. Jett" Sun Nov 5 13:52:12 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 13:52:12 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: RE: Disco Steering Probs Again, for what it's worth, I didn't mean that the leather was the = cause, just that, I didn't have the problem until the dealer yanked off = the steering wheel and replaced it with a leather wrapped one, obviously = disrupting something within the column which is where my problem is = also. I'll post what the dealer has to say shortly. Craig '95 Disco ---------- From "Soren Vels Christensen" Sun Nov 5 19:42:56 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:42:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Head rebuilt. Hi all. I just rebuilt Aurens' head due to a burnt exhaust valve. New valves, springs, seals, a new guide and a new cam follower kit. The no. eight valve was burnt and i drove around for about 1 1/2 month on three cylinders. Not a catastrophy, just leave home 10 minutes earlier. All this because of the usual time/money problem. This problem was solved when i got fired the day after i got a bank loan. Good timing eh? I took the head off, cleaned it, and took everything apart (except guides) and started to grind in the new valves. I found that guide no. 7 had serious slack and changed it. The tools to drive the guides in and out with (there are four) are really expensive, - about !80.- plus tax. So i drove the guide out with a short piece of steel. To drive the new guide in i used an old valve sliding a thick washer, the old guide and the new guide over it and banging the flat surface with a two pound hammer. It's cheap and it works. When i was ready to fit the head i cleaned the tappets and found one squashed (they are brass). Ordered a new kit but had to wait another day. Well two days actually, it started snow real bad. My brother came over yesterday and we dropped the head back on and fitted some auxiliaries before dark. I put the rest back on today and went for a test drive. What power. What pull. Doing the cylinder head is really a miracle cure (providing that the engine is in a reasonable condition). Perhaps i'll grind valves each 100 kkm. It's really a simple operation when you get started, isn't it? But it's cold when your shop is the back of a 109. Rgds sv/aurens From David Rosenbaum Sun Nov 5 11:46:41 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: D90 Stock Springs w/ winch, etc. Dear Jim, In regard to D90 springs, I have a "stock" '94 D90 with the front brush bar, Warn winch (8000#, behind and under the bumper) and front "engine protection plate" - The ride seems great to me. I imagine that the Land Rover accessories were chosen in concert with their choice of springs? The reason I ask is that my comparison vehicles (55 Chevy, 66 Scout) make the Land Rover feel heavenly under any circumstances so I probably wouldn't know if the springs were over-loaded. Have you heard of any problem with the load of stock accessories? Thanks and best wishes, David From Treski@aol.com Sun Nov 5 14:59:08 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:59:08 -0500 From: Treski@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest subscribe land-rover-owner From Treski@aol.com Sun Nov 5 14:59:07 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:59:07 -0500 From: Treski@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest subscribe lro From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Nov 5 21:12:31 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:12:31 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Terrible threat from BMW About the BMW-Threat-Thread: The last time BMW tried its hand at a 4x4 (to my knowledge) was 1967-71, after they took over Glas (who formerly made a wonderful very miniature car called the Goggomobil and went belly up trying to market a standard-size car)and continued with Glas experiments to build an amphibious 4x4 with a BMW 2000 engine in the middle. Did they try after that? Any hard news? Sorry to be so late, just back from the USofA and still trying to catch up with three weeks worth of lro! Regards Peter Hirsch 107 SI S/W From "Soren Vels Christensen" Sun Nov 5 21:01:33 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:01:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: Series II turn Signal stalk - different from S.II? In message Sat, 4 Nov 1995 07:38:23 -0500, chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) writes: ;; ;; My late IIA (1969) does not have the returner thingy, you have to turn it ;; off manually. Of course, you can leave it on...left or right...and just ;; tell those who honk at you you're warming up for a turn. ;; ;; Chris After a few years in cold climate a sIII doesn't have a returner thingy either. The two little plastic arms get brittle and brake off and the driver must return the tentacle manually. It's a Lucas part... rgds sv/aurens From Pat Guerin Sun Nov 5 11:59:49 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:59:49 -1000 (HST) From: Pat Guerin Subject: Re: monash access time What about having it at 2 sites? One in .au and one stateside? I could check to see if I can put it on my server. Right now I have a Hawaiian Land Rover Web Page at http://www.puka.com check it out....aloha, Pat p.s. The web Page is still under construction! From Matt Neibaur Sun Nov 5 18:20:23 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:20:23 -0500 From: Matt Neibaur Subject: Re: Discovery Woes John Writes: Huh, Matt? Did your dealer really charge you to replace the defective alternator even though your Landie's still on warranty? How did he justify that? ------------------ No, the dealer only charged me for the 7,500 mile service. The warranty covered the rest of the bill - around $300 + the towing charge. In all, the service was good. I still love driving this vehicle - just hope it will keep on going for the next thirty years. Matt Neibaur matt@jax.gttw.com From JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Sun Nov 5 18:42:00 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 95 18:42:00 -0500 From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Subject: D-90 suspension answers Lou, I may be able to shed some light on your suspension questions. The addition of the OME751's to the front and OME758's to the rear will still leave you with a rear that sits about 1.5 inches higher than the front. You will still get the sensation that the nose of the truck sags. I had previously replaced my front coils with a new set of rear Defender coils to correct for the same sag (ARB bumper and winch). While installing the OME kit, I took the time to compare the OME 751's with the stock Defender rear coils (now on the front). These coils seem to be almost identical. When installed, the coils measure the same height compressed. The new rear coils are a different story. The article in one of the 4X4 magazines, (FourWheeler?) claimed a dramatic increase in suspension travel for the rear. Upon comparing the differences in the coils, I am inclined to agree. The only problem is that the rear coils lift the truck a few inches. After weighing pro's and con's, I decided to live with the slight sag to get the increased rear travel. Any attempt to increase the front height might necessitate additional modifications. (longer flex lines and offset radius arm bushings?) Regards, Jim Cirbus 94 D-90 #730 From TONY YATES Mon Nov 6 09:01:08 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:01:08 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Movies. Jim Cirbus just beat me to it with Outbreak, Milk Money with Melanie Griffith (very cutesy feel good movie), features 3 seconds of a RR. Since this started I don't think I've seen a movie WITHOUT a Rover. Perhaps we should have a list of movies with no Landrovers, it might be easier! Daryl answered the RS question very well, I think I'll leave it at that. Cheers. ========================================================== @@@@@@@@@@@@ Tony Yates @@@@@@@@@@ Bureau of Meteorology @@@@@@@ Port Hedland @@@@ Western Australia @@@@ @@@ ph: (091) 401 350 @@@ fax: (091) 401 100 @@@ @@@ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au @@ @ ========================================================== From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Sun Nov 05 21:23:58 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:23:58 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Do I *really* need to stop? [BTW, this is about brakes, not flames... :-) ] Sigh. Lots of talk about brakes lately, all of which I've been trying to follow. I've known I need brake attention for a few months on my '66 IIa 88. Well, now its getting worse. Last weekend, after we had a hard cold snap (into the teens f), my brakes started to get mushyer. For the last year, its been a pretty consistant "first pump, some brakes, second pump real brakes." Now it takes three pumps to get much, and the first does almost nothing. I don't know if the cold is related or not. I checked my resivoir and it was low (about half full), so I suspect I've allowed air into the system. I checked all the line joints, and can't find any leaks, and now that I've filled the resivoir the problem seems to have stabalized. So I decided to have a go at bleeding the brakes, and the bleed nipples are frozen! Aarrrgh! I could feel the nut begining to strip on the far front wheel, so I stopped there. As from Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance: "You could almost hear the gumption escaping like air from a baloon, ssssssssssssss..." Elighten me, o Rover gods of the net. Just for the record, the fluid is Castrol GTLMA. Thats what the P.O. said use *only*. And I've learned here that the fluid type is critical, but there is no specific reference to it in the version of the FAQ I have on file. Tell me this is correct, please. Either that or I've discovered the problem... Thanks for the all the help. BTW, you guys are great, squabbles & all. I'd never be able to deal with my Rover without you (I'm the only Series owner I know, except for the list and the P.O. (and he's an idiot)). Last, thanks to whoever mentioned checking the oil in the steering relay. I did, and it was damn near dry. Thanks for the tip. Tim "Even after a year, he's still learning just what he's gotten himself into" --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 05 95 Nov EST 1922 Date: 05 Nov 95 22:14:01 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: OME springs On 11/2 John Cassidy wrote: >> Distance between front axle housingand bump stop increased from 2.25 inches to 3.75 inches on both sides. Distance in the rear increased from 3 inches to 4.25 inches on the right andfrom 3.75 inches to 5 inches on the left. The vehicle rides somewhatstiffer, but is not rough. The height increase is noticeable when enteringand exiting the vehicle, though. << I just now got around to measuring the clearance on my 90RR with Old Man Emu springs. Mine have been on the vehicle for a little over three months now and I had a feeling that the springs may have settled a little since I installed them. So, I decided to measure mine so that I could compare them to John Cassidy's. I don't have any earlier measurements for my suspension, but I do not think that there was much difference between the 87 and 90 RR suspension. (If I am wrong please correct me) So I will assume that the two vehicles would have had similar measurements. F/L F/R R/L R/R RR Stock: 2.25" 2.25" 3.75" 3.00" With OME: 3.75" 3.75" 5.00" 4.25" OME after 3 months: 2.75" 2.75" 4.75" 4.125" Change from Stock: +.5" +.5" +1.00" +1.125" These measurements were taken between the axle and the bumper at the outside edge. I still find that the ride is firmer that stock, but with the springs settling, the height difference is not as noticable. I am a little curious about the differences between the left and right on the rear axle. The bumper end caps measured the same height, and their was no noticeable lean, but there is a difference of more than 1/2" between the two sides. Anyone have any ideas? John, I think you may like these springs even more in a month or so. Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 05-Nov-1995 From "Adam Messer" Sun Nov 5 23:20:14 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 95 23:20:14 -30000 From: "Adam Messer" Subject: Disco in the drink The rainy season here (Tanzania) is pretty unforgiving, so I prepared my 94 Disco 200 Tdi with wading plugs as specified in the owner's manual. We ended up on the safari from hell, towing a trailer repeatedly through puddles so deep that the water was washing up over the hood. Though dramatic, we cruised right on through the deep puddles, which covered an all-weather dirt road. The alternator light came on repeatedly, but it does this even when we go through a deep puddle in town. The only damage was the fire blanket--it got really soggy and pulled away from the hood. No prob--the dealer replaced it under warranty. From Brian Neill Tiedemann Mon Nov 6 16:39:17 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:39:17 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: trivia: wheels Guys, don't mean to be picky, but if anyone with a series LR tries to put RR standard old steel wheels on, they will find out about cross compatibility in Rovers! Series LRs have 6 bolt drive flanges, and the RRs have 5 bolt, and the "star points" of the steel wheel are positioned to clear 5- not 6 bolts. LR wheels do fit over RR drive flanges though. I think that this changed about when coils appeared- does a Stage 1 have 5 or 6? Anyone? 110s seem to have 5 bolts, and 88/109s 6. Stud pattern is the same for all. Granted, however, that some extensive creativity would be needed to make 101 wheels fit any other LR/RR... now wot do I do wiv da extra hole?? mmmm duzznt fit???!! Cheers, BT 77 RR. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Nov 6 17:53:45 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:53:45 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: trivia: wheels > to clear 5- not 6 bolts. LR wheels do fit over RR drive flanges though. I have seen older series vehicles with rangie wheels fitted, but I dont know just how much gas-axe + BFH work was required. Judging by the size of the hole in the centre of the rim lots.... > does a Stage 1 have 5 or 6? Anyone? Here's a clue. the stage 1's official name is Series III V8. same hubs and flanges as (dare I say it) the later post metric rationalisation series III's (ie rangie bearings) Mind you my stage 1 has the old style hubs, I'm starting to wonder if there was a suppliers strike in 12/82, mine seems to be a bit of a parts box special..... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Mon Nov 06 01:14:08 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 01:14:08 -0800 From: don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Subject: engine swap My friend has a IIa 109 and its main use is for city driving with lots of hills. He had his four cylinder rebuilt 45,000 kms ago and its already time to do some major work. Does anyone have any info about putting a chevy V6 in or whatever the comman conversion is. Here are some of things we were thinking about. Engine mounting brackets, where to buy them or some specs to build them? Fuel injected vs. carburaters, Has anyone done a fuel injected modification? Old Steering box in the way, move it or replace it with something else? Power steering, is it a good idea not? Transmision adapter plates, where do we get thoughs? Any info would be much appreciated. Thanx, Don __________________________________________________________ Don MacDonald North Vancouver, BC Canada 1966 Series IIa 88 (restored) From Vel Natarajan Mon Nov 6 04:35:51 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:35:51 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: LRs in Movies/TV Shows I know someone was keeping a list of LR's in movies, but are they also doing TV shows? I was watching "The New Avengers" this weekend and there was a white Range Rover which had Joanna Lumley and her partner driving in circles through a field while trying to "get a fix on a radio transmitter" and making sexual innuendos the whole time. The name of the episode was "The White Rat" I think...pretty funny - (the entire show I mean. I can't tell if they're trying to play serious drama, or it's a comedy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-556-742 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vel Natarajan Mon Nov 6 04:46:54 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 04:46:54 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Virgin Airlines I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but if you fly on their business class (they call it upper class) on Virgin Airlines, they have a limo service where they will pick you up from and drop you off at the airport. I had to go to Hong Kong recently for work and I got a ride in the new Range Rover. It wasn't a 4.2, but had a 2.5 BMW TD I was told. It was so quiet, I couldn't tell it was a diesel from sitting inside. The adjusting ride height was pretty cool too. The driver was showing it to me at a stoplight and the lady in the BMW next to us was giving us funny looks! You also get to keep a little glossy booklet about the RR and disco which was put together by Virgin. Neat! There was a story about why Richard Branson chose a fleet of RR's to use for his limo service, anyone remember the details of it? From Mark Murphy Mon Nov 6 05:31:04 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:31:04 -0700 From: Mark Murphy Subject: Squeaky Steering Wheel John, With the onset of cold weather in Colorado, I have also noticed a squeaky steering wheel. So far, it only squeaks in cold weather. I have a '95 Discovery with about 3400 miles. I believe it is temperature related since I haven't done a 4WDing lately. Would have expected just the opposite to happen since "things" expand in heat and contract in cold. Maybe some insulation is binding in the cold? Let us know what you find. thanks, Mark '95 Discovery mmurphy@evolving.com From Easton Trevor Mon Nov 06 07:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 07:49:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: ECU location As a Series/Non ECU owner water isn't a real problem to me, but regarding the relocation of ECU thread. Why not install it in a console at roof level ? This way the driver has to drown before the ECU gets wet and also the fault code display will be easily readable without adopting a contortionist pose. Trevor Easton From Stephen Thomas Mon Nov 06 08:12:00 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 08:12:00 -0500 From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Re: Disco Steering Probs John Asks: >I'm writing about my wife's '95 Disco(10,200 miles) which for the last week >has had a squeaking/moaning sound in the cabin when the steering wheel is >turned either left or right. Same problem with my '94. When I had it fixed (under warranty) the receipt came back "Power steering fixed per Service Bulletin #xxx" or some such, so it's apparantly a common problem. (Sorry, I don't have the exact text or number in front of me. If your dealer gives you problems, drop me a line and I'll quote you the full text.) BTW. I'm a Disco owner and I always wave. --Stephen ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (770) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (770) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Until 1Dec95, the previous area code of 404 also works.) From William Terry Mon Nov 6 08:36:45 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:36:45 -0500 (EST) From: William Terry Subject: HELP: no go at 30 miles The problem started after I had had a new tranny and clutch installed on my military IIA. La Rana (the frog) lost power around thirty miles on the way home. After much trouble shooting (much misdirected trouble shooting) I determined that the fuel filter was stopping the fuel flow. It was a glass type with changable filter element. I couldn't see a junk and figured that there was something in the couple of inches of fuel line attached at each end of the filter which attach it to fuel system. When I removed the fuel filter with associated couple of inches of line at each end the fuel didn't drain. I figured it was a flap of rubber line blocking it. Opened the filter, drained it and never found the problem. I replaced the complete filter and attaching fuel line pieces and everything seemed fine. Drove La Rana about 30 miles and it did the same thing. I've added new gas, different gas station. It appears that it doesn't matter which tank I use. I rebuilt the fuel pump so the diaphram should be good. The fuel going into the pump bowl is apple juice colored. One tank is 6 mos old and tar-type coated. Other is ? and waxoil coated. This is my daily driver. Any advice, ideas or experiences? TIA, Bill ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From Easton Trevor Mon Nov 06 08:23:00 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 08:23:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Disco Lights Alan, I have some pictures of Polly and Ester, just the the 8000# winch. From "Craig R. Jett" Mon Nov 6 08:58:49 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:58:49 -0500 From: "Craig R. Jett" Subject: RE: Disco Steering Probs I would very much like to have this in hand when going to the dealer. If it's not to much trouble, and you don't have to dig for it, could you post that Service Bulletin number. My dealer, so far, has not been stellar at service (forgetting to tighten seat after removal is just one), I'm sure it will save me a lot of time if I can go in and say here fix this. Thanks in advance, Craig 95 Disco and I always wave also ---------- From Richard Jones Mon Nov 6 13:50:12 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:50:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: LRs in Movies/TV Shows Vel Natarajan writes: > I was watching "The New Avengers" this weekend and there was a white > Range Rover which had Joanna Lumley and her partner driving in circles The white Range Rover belongs to the charater Mike Gambit (played by Gareth Hunt) pops up in quite a few episode (ie whenever the Red Jaguar XJ-S isn't appropriate). John Steed's character (Patrick McNee) has a British Racing Green Range Rover which also appears from time to time. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Mike Rooth Mon Nov 6 11:44:05 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:44:05 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? Pilfered? As far as *I* can determine,nothing has been pilfered.I can access it perfectly all right,so it *cnat* have been pilfered. The idea,however,of a *general* item such as this being controlled by a club,or organisation is repugnant to me. "Under the umbrella of.." has connotations I cannot like. Of course,chances are that the person doing the work *will* be the member of a club,but since in this instance the club in question has its *own* page,I fail to see what the complaint is all about! I have no doubt that LROA could,if it so wished,have its own club page,the better to advertise its aims and ambitions,as well as its club activities,ie Rallies,Comp Safaris,RTV Trials etc,which,like most other clubs,I have equally no doubt,it runs a good many. As for objecting to a Canadian club having its home on an American site,this strikes me as petulance of no mean order.A bit like"Its *my* ball,and if you dont do as I say,I'll take it home..so there". Even if it *was* true that its an Americna Govt site(which it isnt) it strikes me as an excellent way of getting some tax money back! I always thought this was the INTERnational NETwork,or the WORLD Wide Web. This altercation has all the hallmarks of someone who assumes that "The thought is the deed".Unfortunately this is never the case,and its of little use getting upset when someone else ploughs in and does the work.And very well,too,IMO,I might add. Yours etc Mike Rooth From crash@merl.com Mon Nov 6 09:09:29 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:09:29 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest [squeak when turning steering wheel on Disco] Mine had the same problem. It's the little rubber bootie that seals the hole in the firewall where the steering shaft goes through. It's supposed to be lubed at the factory, sometimes they don't put enough lube on. The fix is five minutes and the proper goo. LRNA knows about the problem and will fix it for free. -Bill From "Tom Rowe" Mon Nov 6 08:31:08 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:31:08 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: RE: Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide If anybody comes up with a real return address for this bloke, let me know. I'd like to send a few messages to him These are all unknown addresses, mail returned yoshio@osak.ac.jp, agc03255@niftyserv.or.jp, agc03895@niftyserv.or.jp Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Nov 6 08:37:57 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:37:57 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: RR in the movies I finally got around to seeing "Father of the Bride" with Steve Martin. While they are at the wedding coordinator's premisis, you can see out the window a RR drive up and park. Big deal huh? Was it "Roxanne" where Steve Martin is the firefighter with a LWB LR parked in his carport? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Stephen Thomas Mon Nov 06 09:37:39 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 09:37:39 -0500 From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Re: Disco Steering Probs Gentle Readers: Since the Disco steering problem seems to be fairly widespread, I dug out my service receipt and have quoted it in full below. (Except that my original is all caps.) Hope this helps. D Check for steering column squeak on turns when cold Cause: F 57400199 Repair Steering Column Squeak per Bulletin 590 WPR 0.25 (N/C) 3 BTR9437 Fastener, TR (N/C) FC: Part#: Count: Claim Type: Auth Code: 23210 57.40.01/99 .25hrs fix steering column squeak --Stephen ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (770) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (770) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Until 1Dec95, the previous area code of 404 also works.) From Vel Natarajan Mon Nov 6 08:42:00 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:42:00 -0600 (CST) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Re: LRs in Movies/TV Shows Richard Jones writes: >Vel Natarajan writes: >> I was watching "The New Avengers" this weekend and there was a white [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >John Steed's character (Patrick McNee) has a British Racing Green Range Rover >which also appears from time to time. In that case, I guess it would be pointless to keep track of LRs in TV shows. There would be too many in the UK programs to count. Oh well... Vel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-556-742 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Mon Nov 06 10:08:35 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 10:08:35 EST From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com Subject: Re: Range Rover Brake Squeal Kevin, I went to the local NAPA store on Saturday afternoon and bought some stuff they had on display. There was a whole rack of adhesive patches (but none listed for the RR). I bought a pack that looked large enough and trimmed them down. They appear to be some kind of a rubber compound, not soft aluminium. The squeal has gone!! It will be interesting to see how it holds up after prolonged use. They cost a little over $3 for the pack. Thanks for the help Mike > Subject: Brake Squeal > Author: KKelly6788@aol.com at inetmail > From: KKelly6788 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 34 lines)] > but these have worked better for me. Most foreign auto parts stores here in > California sell them. From Richard Jones Mon Nov 6 15:13:31 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:13:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Virgin Airlines Vel Natarajan writes: > There was a story about why Richard Branson chose a fleet of RR's to > use for his limo service, anyone remember the details of it? He was involved in a serious accident on a Motorway with all his family, plus a friend of his daughters in his own Range Rover, which resulted in the Range Rover sliding on its side for some distance along the carrageway. After some assitenance releasing the occupants from their seatbelts all walked away unharmed (baring minor cuts or bruses). Richard Branson's opinion was that he and his family would have been killed had he been driving anything else (a Police Officer that witnessed the incident had a similar view), and that his customers should be transported in a similarly safe way. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Randy Parker Mon Nov 6 10:19:55 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:19:55 -0500 From: Randy Parker Subject: Re: Disco Steering Probs Had a similar problem in 94 Disco early on but only when vehicle was cold -- dealer replaced steering column bushing under warranty and indicated it was not the first time they had seen this problem. Hope this helps! --RP At 08:26 AM 11/5/95 -0500, you wrote: >I'm writing about my wife's '95 Disco(10,200 miles) which for the last week >has had a squeaking/moaning sound in the cabin when the steering wheel is >turned either left or right. ... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Randy Parker, Roving Software Inc., Brookline, MA, USA Email: rparker@roving.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Mon Nov 6 07:47:05 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:47:05 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: Re: monash access time It's much quicker now (i.e., Tuesday 02:45 Australian EST according to http://www.vicnet.net.au/cgi-bin/date.) Cool. >I'd be interested to know how long it takes >to load a page *on Monday Australian EST after 12 noon* >after it has been fixed up >Lloyd Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From Treit Le 6 95 Nov 1910 Date: 6 Nov 95 10:27:16 From: Treit Le Subject: Picking up new RR Picked it up. Love it. The salesman took it over a very short obstacle course with a 30 degree lean and a 40 degree climb. Pretty amazing to me. I thought we would flip for sure. I guess its old hat for you guys. Then I bugged him for test drives in the Defender and Disco. The Defender is a great looking truck and can go anywhere, but it incredibily uncomfortable. I find it difficult to believe that it has the same suspension as the Disco. Still want one though. The Disco is as nice as the RR, and I could not detect much difference between the RR air vs. the Disco coil suspension. They wanted $42K for a heavily optioned SE7!!! Availability at the Glen Cove, NY dealership Defender - a couple left, then they are gone, get on it guys Defender SW - can order Disco - a couple available now, any color, spec or option can be gotten in 4-6 weeks, no dealing Classic - 1 black left, price negotiable 4.0 - SOLD OUT for the next few months 4.6 - can order Some of the above are available as demos immediately. The dealership - The RR was not well prepped. Looked like they ran it through a car wash and sprayed Armor-All on the dash. There were smudge marks on the interior, engine compartment was dirty and the space between the tailgate and the bumper was very dirty. The wood trim looked like they had let the Armor-All dry instead of wiping it off. Definitely not the same level of detail that my buddy's recently purchased MB400SE w/ 47k miles had. One major ding on the rain gutter which looked like someone had bitten a chunk out of it. The dealer said that they would replace the rain gutter. It looks spot welded so who knows. Couple small door dings which needed bright light and the right viewing angle to see. OK for a 1799 mile demo I guess. Picnic basket - I got a free picnic basket filled with goddies and some Nassau county wine (bleh!) just for buying a RR. Mileage - 11 mpg so far, hopefully this beast is not broken in yet. Next step, Montauk. From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Mon Nov 6 08:46:06 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:46:06 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: Re: Discovery Woes On Nov 4, 12:02am, Matt Neibaur wrote: > Subject: Discovery Woes > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > $49. The other warranty items ran about $300. > The Legend continues, Gee, it seems I get to experience everybody elses problems too. I have 6 months and 9500 miles on my Disco, and after moving two weekends ago, I was dropping off a borrowed trailer, came off the highway, saw the ABS light come on and shortly after had the car sputtering, and coughing. Depressing the gas pedal did nothing to increase speed of car or engine. Stopped in a parking lot and tried to get it going after stopping it. No go. BTW, the lights were dim. I got the typical clicking of the starter solenoid when I've had low battery charge on other cars. I called the Road Recovery # and they sent somebody out to tow it to the dealership (2nd time in 6 months). Before he got there, I was able to restart the car but it struggled. When he got there, the towman was also able to get it started once, but then it again wouldn't restart. He towed. Talked to the dealership next day and they determined that the heavy gauge wire from the alternator to the fuse box had loosened at the fuse box, getting very hot and melting parts of the wire and the fuse box and cover. WARNING - this may cause a fire!! I asked him didn't LR use a lock washer on the block and he said yes, but it still came loose. Clearly others have had this problem. He said they were replacing the fusebox and wire, and I asked him to check out the rest of the electrical system and connections. I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling that they would. I checked it this weekend and the fusebox may or may not have been replaced but the cover was not. The wire was. Of course, having paid for the Grey Poupon, it was under warranty, but once again a pain. I spoke with the service manager about not feeling very comfortable taking my vehicle out as it was intended to be used because of sseveral breakdowns and wondered if they would do roadside pickup if I was out in the booneys: no response!! To top it all off, when they replaced the screw they went from philips to flat head screw slot and from the brass-coloured finished to a plain steel finish. Now I have to make sure I have two drivers when I work on this thing in the future. Needless to say, I will be having them fix these remaining issues instead of being slouches. Y'all may want to check out your alternator connections to the fusebox. Goodday, > \|/ > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > ooO Ooo >-- End of excerpt from Matt Neibaur -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Mon Nov 6 08:35:30 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:35:30 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: creaky Discovery rear door (?) I'd hoped I wouldn't have to write the list so soon with a problem, but I and my dealer are both baffled by something. I have a '95 Discovery with about 1400 miles so far. For a couple of weeks I've been hearing the scariest noise coming from around the rear door; it sounds like a metal-on-metal creak and occurs when I drive over bumps or around corners (especially left turns.) I've been hearing this in all temperatures and it isn't affected by seats being folded or the loadspace cover being removed. Usually, I wouldn't be bothered by noises, but this sounds like a bad weld or loose hinges or God-knows-what body integrity problem. I've been to the dealer (Symes in Pasadena) twice. The first time, the Service Manager heard the noise, told me some "sealant" was missing, patched something, and the noise left for a couple of weeks. On my second visit, I discovered that the Service Manager had left for two months, taking the knowledge of how to fix this thing with him. No one else knew what to do. Does anyone here on the list have a better idea? I'd be most grateful for any ideas. Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Mon Nov 6 08:52:50 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:52:50 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: Re: Disco Steering Probs I can confirm that there is a Service Bulletin on the squeeking steering. When I had the Disco in for the alternator wire coming loose and melting plastic and killing the engine, we once again complained about the steering noise (6 months 9500 miles). They indicated they have ordered a nationally backordered kit to resolve the problem. Stephen, in a later posting, calls out the bulletin number, which I don't have. It is rather a nuisance, isn't it? On Nov 6, 8:12am, Stephen Thomas wrote: > Subject: Re: Disco Steering Probs > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > John Asks: > >I'm writing about my wife's '95 Disco(10,200 miles) which for the last week > >has had a squeaking/moaning sound in the cabin when the steering wheel is > >turned either left or right. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > (Until 1Dec95, the previous area code of 404 also works.) >-- End of excerpt from Stephen Thomas -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From "Mark Talbot" Mon Nov 6 15:57:30 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 15:57:30 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Importing parts into the States All, Has anyone had, or know anyone who has any experience in importing parts into the US from the UK. I'm looking to get some stuff for my Land Rovers. I may also try and get another vehicle while I'm at it, probably a SIIA 109. My Dad lives in the UK and he is a great source of parts to help and store stuff, he even has a SI "round the side of house", thing hasn't moved in a few years and still in good condition. I'm looking for info on shippers, rough cost for a 20ft container to get the stuff into Boston, anyone recommend a shippers ? Any info on customs, I have dealt with them before and have used a broker to avoid problems. Anyone want to rent space to help share costs !!!! I know the OVLR ships stuff, perhaps it's easier to go into Canada first, then bring the stuff down ? What do you think Dixon ? Mark From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Nov 06 12:30:03 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 12:30:03 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: The tangled webs we weave... Listen Up! I think everybody (except where Dixon goes to put his plow together) is forgetting what's actually important... Everybody needs to put down their valiums. GO OUTSIDE and sit in your Land-Rover, if you've got one, and take a deep inhale. Smell that rotting upholstery. Smell the gear oil. Start it up. Smell the exhaust. Open the window. Start it again. This is what Land-Rover's are about. They're not about WorldWebWhiners or FTP's (Full Tank, Petrol?) or HTML's (Hot Meals?)or any of that stuff. The Roverweb and all the other Webs, Home Pages, and other computer doo-dads, are all very important and useful (as well as fun). For many different reasons. But give me a choice and I'd rather be outside driving around in my Rover! Or, I mean, er...working on my Rover... Nuff said. David "Web Schmeb, hand me the flippin' wrench, already!" Bobeck Nineteen Seventy-Two Series Three Short Wheelbase. "Green Car" Washington DC, USA dbobeck@ushmm.org From "T.F. Mills" Mon Nov 6 10:58:32 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:58:32 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: LRs in Movies/TV Shows (New Avengers) Vel Natarajan writes: I was watching "The New Avengers" this weekend and there was a white Range Rover which had Joanna Lumley and her partner driving in circles through a field while trying to "get a fix on a radio transmitter" and making sexual innuendos the whole time. The name of the episode was "The White Rat" I think...pretty funny - (the entire show I mean. I can't tell if they're trying to play serious drama, or it's a comedy) In the episode "Obsession" Steed sacrifices his green Range Rover by parking it on top of a makeshift underground missile launcher seconds before launching in order to once again save the world from the bad guys. This series came out in 1976-77 (I think). I was not originally impressed with the series (which is overly sentimental about the original Avengers series) nor with Steed trading in his old Bentley for a Range Rover. Now, of course, the New Avengers has its own sappy, sentimental, nostalgic value, including the relatively early Range Rover sightings. Actually, in "Dead Men Are Dangerous" somebody blows up Steed's garage, and we are treated to pieces of Bentley strewn around as a pretense that he still owned the Bentley which we otherwise never got to see. There is a small New Avengers web site at http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Contrib/Entertainment/NewAvengers So, what US channel is currently showing the series? I need a nostalgia fix -- haven't seen it since it first came out. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From kurzman@ix.netcom.com (David S. Kurzman ) Mon Nov 6 09:59:46 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:59:46 -0800 From: kurzman@ix.netcom.com (David S. Kurzman ) Subject: Take my Rovers, Please This is multipart MIME message. --bpecolyrdakvseybuvcuhwmsulhlch Content-Type:text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="NCZ2D78.TMP" --bpecolyrdakvseybuvcuhwmsulhlch Content-Type:text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="lro1.txt" Hello to everyone on the mailing list. I've been lurking here for about a year and thought I'd jump in. I have a series 3 109 military. Full rag top, Turner unleaded head, luminition with an MSD , 5 main 2 1/4, and a bunch of other stuff. I admit to not running off-road much (just on the beach) mainly because I wouldn't be able to afford to fix the truck if I ran it into a tree or something. My L-R has about 17000 miles on it and I'm actually considering selling it and buying a cheap 88 so I can beat about in the woods without worrying about it too much. The real reason I'm here is to try and sell some Rover stuff that is not exactly connected with L-R so I'll keep this short and if any one is interested they can call or e-mail me for details. I have 2 Rover TC 2000's and a garage full of parts for them. Some new parts, mostly used. No V-8 parts. I probably have about $6000 in this stuff and would take $1500 for everything. I just want all of this stuff out of my sight. I'm sorry but I don't want to sell individual parts. I've blown so much $ on these P-6's ( I had 6 of them in the backyard at one time) that I can hardly bare to look at them, let alone go out and pull a starter or something. I hope this is not too far off the subject. Calls ok till mid- night est if you are interested in the P-6's or even the 109. Best, Dave Kurzman 816 W. 46th St. Richmond, VA 23225 (804) 233-1341 --bpecolyrdakvseybuvcuhwmsulhlch-- From Randy Parker Mon Nov 6 13:04:17 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:04:17 -0500 From: Randy Parker Subject: Re: creaky Discovery rear door (?) One thought: check the rear door latch if you haven't. After about 2000 miles, I had to tighten mine up and I remember dealer service mentioning something about door latch noise subsequent to that. OTOH, all Rovers have odd noises (it's not optional equipment!). Good luck! --RP At 08:35 AM 11/6/95 -0800, Christopher Boese wrote: >I'd hoped I wouldn't have to write the list so soon with a problem, but I >and my dealer are both baffled by something. I have a '95 Discovery with >about 1400 miles so far. For a couple of weeks I've been hearing the >scariest noise coming from around the rear door ....... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Randy Parker, Roving Software Inc., Brookline, MA, USA Email: rparker@roving.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Richard Jones Mon Nov 6 17:58:46 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:58:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: 25th Anniversary Final Edition

25th Anniversary Final Edition

The Range Rover Classic will bow out of the public market later this year. To go out in style, Land Rover are producing a special 25th anniversary model.

Based on the Vogue SE, just 25 of these special vehicles will be built - each one individually numbered with a special plaque on the fascia. Powered by the 3.9 litre V8 petrol engine developing 181 bhp, the anniversary model features Oxford Blue metallic paintwork, chrome bumpers and distinctive badging on the front wings. The interior is finished in light stone beige with leather seats and a CD system fitted as standard. The remote-controlled central locking also operates a sophisticated alarm system, which incorporates random electronic code selection.

The Range Rover Classic 25th Anniversary Final Edition is priced at £40,000. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Stephen Thomas 6 95 Nov GMT 1915 Date: 6 Nov 95 15:26:03 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Disco lights and Spammers 'lo all, The Disco rear lights were originally designed as one cluster on each side holding all the lights, turn signals included. When the facelifted Disco came out (late '94?) the turn signals had moved down to the bumper as the Transport Dept. were concerned that if the rear door was open on the road (y'know, when you're moving your mate's furniture...) then the spare could obscure the offside (nearside in the States) indicator. Or so I heard. As a result people started to retrofit the earlier clusters (with turn signal) onto the later Disco's, so that they had both cluster and bumper turn signals. Land Rover finally caught up and started doing the same....er I think.... Finally I got this in yesterday's digest : >From: yoshio@osak.ac.jp, agc03255@niftyserv.or.jp, >agc03895@niftyserv.or.jp, >Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular >USA Titles So just who is Yoshio? is he one of us or is he just some spammer? If you are a bona-fide Rover owner Yoshio then speak up - otherwise I think we should mailbomb him for his trouble, it really hacks me off... I bet he don't even exist, some spammer-overlords invention no doubt. (conspiracy theory? who suggested that? come on, own up...) Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ / /-\ /--------------\ /-\ \ | | | | | | | | | \-/ | | \-/ | |______|______________|______| /~~~~~~| |~~~~~~\ |o| |[] | |o| |O/ | | \O| || | | || Stephen Thomas ||______|______________|______|| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \_ | | _/ 0121-452-1405 |~\_________|_{}_|_________/~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~_-_~|) (|~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| ['Andy': except for the XCL's :)] ~---~ ~---~ From Jeff Gauvin Mon Nov 6 11:31:16 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:31:16 MST From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: Diffs for sale FOR SALE -------- I have two differentials (front & rear) from a 1994 Defender 90 with about 11K mostly highway miles (under 75 light off-highway miles). These diffs were removed from my vehicle to install ARB air lockers. These diffs fit 1.24" 24 spline axles. It is my understanding that these will fit any "modern" ('93 or later) Land Rover (Defender, Discovery, Range Rover), but since all sales are final, please make sure they fit your application before making an offer. I don't know what Genuine LR diffs sell for new, but I've seen other used ones for sale at $200 + shipping each, so that seems like a good starting point. Any offers? [The diffs are still in my vehicle but will be out within a week or so.] -- Jeffrey J. Gauvin email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com Symbios Logic Inc. Voice: 719-573-3563 1635 Aeroplaza Dr. FAX: 719-573-3824 Colorado Springs, CO 80916 From Stephen Thomas 6 95 Nov GMT 1915 Date: 6 Nov 95 15:41:06 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Tempting fate again..... I knew it was a bad move to replace that busted heater plug on Andy, I should have guessed that it'd prompt something else to go. On a short drive yesterday the alternator bearings finally gasped their last, making the most obscene grinding noise. I pulled up and the battery light confirmed my suspicions. In true Land Rover fashion Andy didn't leave us completely stuck however, she broke down outside the house of a guy with a Disco V8. Coincidentally he also had a solid bar and towed us to my parents house where a donor 17 ACR was being prepped. (The guy said that had we been in anything other than a Land Rover he'd have left us there) Problem is I got the worn UJ's on the prop sorted today...what'll go next week?????? %) Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ / /-\ /--------------\ /-\ \ | | | | | | | | | \-/ | | \-/ | |______|______________|______| /~~~~~~| |~~~~~~\ |o| |[] | |o| |O/ | | \O| || | | || Stephen Thomas ||______|______________|______|| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \_ | | _/ 0121-452-1405 |~\_________|_{}_|_________/~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~_-_~|) (|~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| ['Andy': except for the XCL's :)] ~---~ ~---~ From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Mon Nov 6 10:19:05 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 10:19:05 PST From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: D90 sagging suspension >Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 17:58:03 -0700 >From: Lou Goldring Jr [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >information about how these springs and shocks perform would be greatly >appreciated. The Old Man Emu coils give a minimum 1.5 inch lift. I believe you can get more. I have the same ARB bull bar and a 9000lb winch. Found that the HD D110 front springs (230 lb/inch) restored the front height to stock level. The ride also became more like stock. I've found that the stock rear springs (230 lb/inch) to be a little to firm with out a 100+ lb load in the back. Articulation is too limited. I'd be hesitant to increase my rear spring rates a whole lot. I believe both the Old Man Emu coils you are looking at are rated at 235 lb per inch. If your anti-sway bars are still installed they are limiting your travel. I've heard that removing the rear doesn't change the handling that much and provides a major improvement in articulation. One of these days I'll try it myself. I have front and rear ARB lockers and so just haven't really felt the need yet. Anyway, doesn't make a lot of sense to me to add lift to increase travel when the present limiting factor can just be unbolted. I'm very leary of lifts. Too many parameters in the drivetrain are messed up. At the very least you are increasing wear in the U-Joints significantly. You also decrease you side slope angle as you raise your center of gravity. My experience so far is that the stock D90 has plenty of clearance. Even loaded. This lead me to the heavy duty D110 solution. (All numbers are from memory. Hope they are close.) -Rick D90, #???? Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Mon Nov 6 13:50:42 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 13:50:42 EST From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Re: creaky Discovery rear door (?) Our 94 Disco has had a rattle which is associated with bumps in the road fore-ever. It is driving me nuts. The dealer sort-of fixed it but it came back very quickly. I was planing on having him take another go at it soon. Another friend of mine has a rear door rattle associated with his subwoofer use. As he is a techno fan, the subwoofer tends to be employed rather more often than if you were to listen to classical (well, ok, so there's Bach toccata fugue but you know what I mean...). I don't know what his is yet. ttfn Tom Des Jardins FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 635-3333 url http://www.fore.com Please note new phone numbers. I am now at the McKnight road facility. From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Mon Nov 6 11:09:50 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:09:50 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: Re: Discovery Woes On Nov 6, 12:40pm, John B. Friedman wrote: > Subject: Re: Discovery Woes > What was the first tow for. ? Do I just take uff the fuse box cover > and check the screw at the heaviest wire? Thanks, John Friedman >-- End of excerpt from John B. Friedman Yeah John, The first tow was for an automatic shifter button becoming non-functional, ie., you push it in to shift and the shifter wouldn't move. Talk about all revved up and no place to go!!! They hauled it to the dealership and somehow they were able to pop the shift head off or somesuch and unkink/reattach the cable and relube it. That is kind of scary out in the outback. For the wiring problem, yes, take off the fuse box cover (over the right wheel) and then there is a thin plastic cover which has a couple of teeth holding it down which bend back. You can acutally see through the slots in this cover. The lug for the alternator is the front left one. If it is loose and arcing you will see the thin cover bubbled and melted. You can take that cover off and check the screw lug. Let me know if you have a phillips head screw the same color as the other screws and whether the lock washer is there. BTW, you may want to check all of the connections!! -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From "Tom Rowe" Mon Nov 6 13:48:30 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:48:30 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered, and an important matter In message <199511031709.JAA17481@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Michael Carradine > writes: > > Tom Rowe writes: > ; > > >If Dixon hasn't actually filed for copy right then he doesn't have it > > >even if he does put such a notice on the pages. I sent a clarification to Michael that I didn't forward to the list. I talked to my wife who works on intellectual poperty cases. The way the law works in the US right now (it may change as there is a bill in congress to make our laws part of an international treaty) is that if you compose something you have the copyright. However, if you don't apply for copyright anyone else can do it and get it. If you can prove you were the originator you can take them to court and get their copyright rejected. The US copyright office doesn't check for previous copyright holders (unlike the patent office) so even if you have filed and received copyright, that won't stop someone else from getting one too. All it does is make it easier to prove you were the originator. You'd still have to threaten them with a lawsuit to get them to stop using the material. As for public domain, it doesn't exist with copyrighted material. The best you can do if you want to make something public domain is to copyright it (about $20 in the US it think) make it freely available and then sue anyboy that tries to make a profit. Even with TeriAnn's posting, if she didn't sue me and prove to a courts satisfaction that she originated it, I could copyright the material and charge for it. US law appears to be very weak in the way it's written right now. Unfortunately, the proposed changes could potentially have a dramatic and devestating impact even on public libraries. (I'm part of a campus group looking at copyright issues and how they affect Internet material and it's use) And from what I've read on the web page matter so far, it seems to be a moot point. And now for something completely different... (oops, is that copyrighted?) :-) Who is managing the list these days? I lost track and I'd like to contact them. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Soren Vels Christensen" Mon Nov 6 20:08:45 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:08:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: LRs in Movies/TV Shows One of the more interesting TV sightings is in the short series "Call for the dead" from the book of John le Carr!. The book was written in 1961 and gave birth to a not so young Mr Smiley (Denholm Elliott). In one of the scenes, on a farm, you can see the front end of a sI in good condition. Obviously put the there as a time stamp. If it was 16:9 you could have seen all of it. rgds sv/aurens From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Nov 6 11:50:51 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:50:51 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: trivia In message <199511031701.MAA20243@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mr Ian Stuart writes: > >First, every Land Rover model's wheels are interchangeable except for one > >model - which one? > The 101 has 6-stud wheels, whilst the rest have 5 studs. ; > BTW.... The hubs of the leaf-sprung vehicles are slightly different to > those of their coil sprung siblings -- so the wheels don't fit without a ; fight. ; ; .... with a wooden spoon ... > ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 > those of their coil sprung siblings -- so the wheels don't fit without a ; Say what? ; I have the black stamped steel defender 7 inch rims on my 109 and they fit perfectly. Didn't have to fight with any wooden spoons ether TeriAnn From Bennett Leeds Mon Nov 6 11:52:07 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:52:07 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Disco arriving any day: Cold Feet So, here I am, not so patiently awaiting the arrival of my '96 5 spd. Discovery (silver/grey), and yet another round of "Discovery Woes" comes to the list. >From my perspective, seems that each time this subject (different actual title) comes up, there's a combination of "yeah, that happened to mine" from people with older (relatively speaking, of course) Discos as well as "and this other thing happened to mine." Then, I find out that the extended warranty prices have more than doubled for all LRs. All LRs are in Class 9 - the worst (Hondas/Toyotas are in Class 1). And, NO-ONE ever posts: "Well, I've put on 10K miles and it's never been in the shop except for scheduled maintainence." Can someone do so in good conscience? Right now it seems like this is the kind of reliability that almost led to Jaguar going under. So, you Disco lurkers, here's your chance: Tell me how reliable your vehicle has been. - Bennett From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Fri Oct 20 01:04:47 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:04:47 -0700 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: 110 for Europe trip? What is the price of an export 110 w/300tdi in th UK. I would want the basic 3 door. I am planning a trip to Europe later next year and would like to find out the costs involved in taking a 110. Other alternatives would be leasing, renting or buying used. Any comments. Thanks, 73. Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Youngson cyoungso@direct.ca 1965 Series IIA 109 3 Door West Vancouver Limestone (in pieces) British Columbia Canada Amateur Radio: VE7CST ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From "Hadley, William H." Mon Nov 06 13:59:24 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 13:59:24 EST From: "Hadley, William H." Subject: silly springs... I have noticed that "Nessie" seems to be a bit low in the back and also leans more to the passenger side. The springs look to be in great shape but the passenger side springs have a good coat of gear oil on them from an old wheel wound. I am thinking that this oil may have worked its way in-between the leaves and has killed their ability to work properly. Can I take them apart and clean them? Also, if there a way you can tell if they need to be rearced. Heading to London on Wednesday, so everybody have a great week. Will Hadley whadley@ushmm.org Funny lil' green stationwagon from '62. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Nov 6 11:22:18 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 11:22:18 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered?? In message <199511031709.JAA17481@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Michael Carradine writes: > Tom Rowe writes: ; > >If Dixon hasn't actually filed for copy right then he doesn't have it > >even if he does put such a notice on the pages. ; > It makes no difference if it's filed or not for 'Version 3.0'. The > content of the work and the copyright of each individual contribution ; can be traced and attributed seperatly if need be, and those contributors > hold the eventual copyright unless formally forfeited to other individuals, > the Land Rover community, or to the public domain. Sigh, Since a lot of the core stuff that Dixon worked with came from several of my postings.... I hereby grant nonexclusive license to to anyone who wishes to use or reprint parts of the RoverWeb that I wrote provided that the following conditions are met: 1. The material is not used to cause harm to anyone. 2. The material is not used for profit 3. If the material is to be published, the source should be given credit and I would like a copy. Published includes paper or electronic reproduction. TeriAnn Wakeman twakeman@apple.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Nov 06 12:20:41 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 12:20:41 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: V8 cam swap. *** Resending note of 11/06/95 12:19 FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: V8 cam swap. To the person interested in a cam swap for the V8, I've just received one for my '87 RR. The heads are being done as I write this, then it'll be next week or late this week before the verdict is in. I'll post my impressions... I ordered it directly from Crane Cams in Florida (USA). They even had the RR listed in their catalogue!! I went up 2 steps from stock. Other than that (lift, duration, etc...) I don't know. I'm not very well educated in the details of cams and their performance. This one was supposed to work around the 2500-3500 rpm (or somewhere around there?) range. Dave (headless at the moment) Brown #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From NADdMD@aol.com Mon Nov 6 15:32:01 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:32:01 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Note on Hubs and Brakes Hi All, Chris Stevens and I began a blind tour through the brakes and hubs on my 1967 88 SWB. These are a few highlights/lowlights of a newbie to this region. 1. The hubs and brakes are incredibly easy to work on, and can be done be the most novice of individuals (ie myself). 2. When renewing the bearings, there is an inner distance piece directly against the backing plate which may need replacing. Although it is not mentioned anywhere, if you definitely plan to replace it, a large channel locks work great to remove the old one (rotating back and forth). 3. When placing the new distance piece into place, the hub nut socket (which I purchased at RN) works perfectly as a drift (use a rubber mallet). 4. When driving new inner races into the hub, a small piece of small diameter (1 inch) pvc pipe works well as a drift to push it into place if worked around the edge of the race in a clockwise (or counterclockwise) fashion. 5. If your old trailing shoe has threaded holes for the anchor plate, don't panic, the new shoes don't so you have to either use self tapping screws or find appropriate bolt and nut. 6. If possible, have Chris Stevens (or other friend) available to read the manual as you work if it is your first go through since your hands will be covered in 90 wt oil and grease. Once I rerun the brakelines, I'll let you know if the beast will stop! Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Mon Nov 6 12:07:07 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:07:07 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Isuzu/Landie contest >I understand from the Off-road list that 2 Isuzus and a Disco went out >somewhere in US NW, as a results of one of the Isuzu owners mouthing off [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >one. Nothing about it on this list? Uh-oh... bad news? Or did I miss >a report here also? ------------ I was the defending LRO in this "contest" and I haven't got around to posting the trip report, so I guess I should quit procrastinating. I should point out, that it wasn't a contest at all, rather some friendly hetero-vehicular off-roading. I met with the the Isuzu drivers near Mt. St. Helens, Washington for a day of bouncing around in the mountains. The roads we found were [unfortunately] pretty tame for the most part (some were even PAVED :-( ) but we did find some opportunities for comparison. While this area [the Pacific NW.)might be a mecca for such yuppiemobiles as the Discovery, Explorer & Jeep G. Cherokee, they are incredibly scarce once you leave the highway, well, once you leave the shopping mall for that matter. I think George's challenge was more to get someone to take their Disco off-road so he could see one "in action" in a sort-of "side-by-side" type of comparison. The local LR Dealerships seem to resist/avoid these type of opportunities for some reason. Since I owed my kids a camping trip it seemed like a good opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. We all had a good time and came back deciding that I really need to get a rear locker (maybe I could talk to Santa...). George Reiswig, maker of the original "challenge" wrote the following report after the outing." From GJevne@aol.com Mon Nov 6 15:56:20 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:56:20 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: Lou : D-90 suspention Tips Lou Goldring Jr: I personal think the D 90 is too stiff stock and performs 100% better with the extra weight. Your D 90 will not have any less wheel travel, just less upper travel giving more drop travel and removing the sway bars adding Billstein shock & maybe a progressive front spring to level it out, but leaving rear as is. I found the D 90s work the best with 70% to 75% of drop travel which is a lower ride height than stock allowing full articulation. We have experimented a great deal with the D 90 ,Discovery & Range Rover suspention systems My first question is do you really use your D 90 to its fullest as it is and are you having a performance problem off-road? Second does the D 90 drive loose and/or are the tires rub? Third do you have your sway bar off? Hope I have helped some if you have any questions let me know Greg Jevne @ Safari Gard From lopezba@atnet.at Mon Nov 6 21:56:48 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:56:48 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Blocked rear brake in SI S/W Help! I need somebody! Help Not just anybody But somebody with Series Land-Rovers experience. Please. Yesterday when I tried to back my beloved Green Monster out of the garage,= it stalled about halfway up the rather steep exit driveway. First I thought= it was the usual engine-not-strong-enough-on-choke syndrom, but when it wouldn=B4t roll back into the garage I realized something else was the= cause. I finally managed to drive down into the garage in low first, with the right-hand rear wheel dragging (and the left-hand rear wheel probably spinning like mad, but I did not actually see this). There was no outside= sign of any damage on the wheel, the brake drum or the axle. I did not know what to do, so left it there and went home to study my literature. One book (Lindsay Porter Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration)= mentioned that the snail cam brake adjuster might break, apparently blocking= the brakes, and the only way to remove it then was to smash the brake drum. = If possible I would like to avoid smashing a perfectly good 37 year old brake drum. So: What else could it be? Bearing? Differential? If it is the snail cam brake adjuster, is there any other way to get at it= (eg drill a hole in the drum)? What should I do to properly diagnose the problem? I can=B4t take the damned thing to a workshop, since the closest L-R= workshop is about 80 km/50 miles from the garage, and I can=B4t even get it out of= the garage. And please do not try and lead me up the garden path by suggesting it is the= handbrake. I know *that* much. Won=B4t you pleeeeease help me? Peter Hirsch SI 107" S/W P.S.: BTW, today we have the worst weather I can remember in Vienna. It snowed about 10cm/4 inches on top of mirror-perfect black ice, and the only way cars moved was sideways. It took me almost two hours to drive my usual 15= minutes home from the office, and I was one of the lucky ones, since my office is in the outskirts and I live in the center. Some people going in= the other direction will probably only make it home when spring comes... How I would have loved to be in the Green Monster! And nobody would have noticed the Problem, I could just have dragged the right rear wheel along! Peter From "Mark Talbot" Mon Nov 6 21:02:13 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 21:02:13 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Kodiak heater knobs all, anyone removed the knobs from a kodiak heater ? I want to get the knobs off the remove the panel to spray it. The knobs has a hole in the top and something must be able to push in, tried to put a small screwdriver in and pull, nothing. H E L P someone. Mark From Nobody Home Mon Nov 6 11:34:13 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:34:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Nobody Home Subject: Discovery project Hello! I am a 3rd year student at Civentry University and for my honours project I am analysing the "Success of the Discovery". I will be looking at the Disco in terms of the Product itself, the price, promotion,etc.etc., so the project will have a marketing slant. I thought this an appropriate subject to cover as I drive a LR/RR hybrid off-road at the weekends. If anyone has got any information on anything to do with the Discovery or even wish to express their personal opinion on the vehicle I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL!!! It may take me a while to reply but your help would be appreciated. Please email me: Helen>>>> hec2@coventry.ac.uk ***************************************************************************** __ Nobody home and _,~/ ) No books to read O_ ^\/ `- - . `~\ `@ What about the pig? ;, ,_( ; //_/ //_/ What about it? hec2@coventry.ac.uk ***************************************************************************** From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Mon Nov 6 12:55:25 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:55:25 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: Re: creaky Discovery rear door (?) Yeah, mine had that subwoofer rattle too. That's something the dealer looked at, removed the entire panel in the rear door, taped some wires inside the subwoofer housing, and tightened everything. The subwoofer doesn't buzz and rattle anymore, which is a good thing, but the scary metallic creaking is still there, which is a bad thing. >Our 94 Disco has had a rattle which is associated with bumps in the road >fore-ever. It is driving me nuts. >Another friend of >mine has a rear door rattle associated with his subwoofer use. >Tom Des Jardins Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Mon Nov 6 12:11:10 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:11:10 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: 7500 Mile Discovery Service Just to add my experience to the "7500 mile service" knowledge base, I took my Disco in last Friday to the Land Rover Eastside (Bellevue, Washington) dealership for it's service and they spent the day doing the following: (warr) replaced the L &R valve cover gaskets (oil seeping onto the cyl. heads (warr) replaced the rear transfer case shaft seal ( oil on the e-brake drum) < I wonder if that would affect the e-brake effectiveness? i.e. should they have cleaned & replaced the e-brake shoes? > (warr) replaced the A/C switch (indicator light out) (warr) replaced a trim holding screw inside (old one fell off) ($50.08) Lube-oil-filter change and they picked dropped me off and picked me up from the office (about 5 mi). All in all, not a bad deal. _____ /|__|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Mon Nov 6 13:46:30 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 13:46:30 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: spinning tires, why An interesting piece of advice I read recently, maybe not applicable to Frank and Mike, addresses slippery slope climbing with an automatic: Put the gear box in 2nd or 3rd, and go at the hill with lots of throttle. You'll be in first, but if you start to lose traction all around, the transmission will think you've crested the hill and shift up, reducing torque and preventing slippage. -Matt From "Tom Rowe" Mon Nov 6 15:59:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:59:24 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Note on Hubs and Brakes Nate Dunsmore writes: snip > 2. When renewing the bearings, there is an inner distance piece directly > against the backing plate which may need replacing. Although it is not > mentioned anywhere, if you definitely plan to replace it, a large channel > locks work great to remove the old one (rotating back and forth). A cold chisel and a couple of smart raps with a hammer will remove the distance piece nicely. It's a brittle piece of metal. For those who wonder, the distance piece is quite often the real culprit in a leaky hub seal. snip > 4. When driving new inner races into the hub, a small piece of small diameter > (1 inch) pvc pipe works well as a drift to push it into place if worked > around the edge of the race in a clockwise (or counterclockwise) fashion. I took old races and ground the OD a little (making sure all burrs are removed) and use them between my press and the new race to help protect it. Although if you're useing PVC there isn't too much chance for damage. I'll have to try it sometime. This is mandatory (and cutting a slot in the old race so it will fit around the shaft) on one of the bearings in the transfer case to remove the shaft. Snip Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Mon Nov 6 16:39:39 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:39:39 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered, and an important matter >As for public domain, it doesn't exist with copyrighted material. The >best you can do if you want to make something public domain is to >copyright it (about $20 in the US it think) make it freely available One small clarification to Tom's "most accurate posting" I've seen on this topic. In the U.S., copyright is implicit upon creation. The only real reason you have to register it is to protect your legal rights in court, and you must register prior to going to court. You do have a stronger case if you file early, but having the earlier copyright doesn't really prove anything. Hence, the copyright which appears on all of the photos that I placed on the WWWeb site is valid, even though I haven't registered them. And I welcome anyone on the Web to download them, enjoy them, and trade them with their friends. They're copyrighted only on the off chance that someone decides that they need them for a commercial purpose. In which case they can contact me about the modest licensing fee Doing so will save me the hassle of filling out the registration forms and proving ownership. ;-}. (And they should contact me because they'll get much better repro from the original negative than from a "low-res" 72DPI JPEG scan of a print.) To those complaining. My .02 is to spend your energy working on WWWeb pages to either add to the RoverWeb, either directly or via links if you don't want to "surrender control." That way it won't be an 'empty shell' for long. Ben had my pages up and running promptly, and was very patient in working through some difficulties we had in transporting the files. I've already expanded on the photos that Ray was kind enough to post originally, before I managed to find the time to learn HTML. My next project is a photo essay on my experience at the Mid-Atlantic Rally 1995. I hope to do more, as soon as I have more photos and tales to share. By the way, if anyone wants to contribute but lacks HTML skills, or scanning equipment, get in touch. I'd enjoy collaberating. In fact, if you have pictures of the Aluminium Man part of this years Mid Atlantic, please get in touch pronto. I had an undiscovered (until later) equipment failure, and my rally photo coverage suffers as a result. Also lost everything I had of the Dormobile, which I shot a full feature on, and my photo of Dixon taking on 'the mudhole.' Seriously, I need your help, so if you have photos you wouldn't mind sharing, please let me know. -- Tom, my former department at NYU used to host the Center For Copyright and New Media, which was also looking into these issues from both a U.S. and International perspective. I believe Donna DeMac moved the Center uptown to Columbia University, and you might want to get in touch. Mike Rooth, INTERnet doesn't really translate to international net, but your point is well taken. (As are most of your points, I was rereading much of your stuff that's on the OVLR Website and laughing out loud at times.) Rover On! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From TONY YATES Tue Nov 7 06:23:09 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:23:09 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: trivia > > BTW.... The hubs of the leaf-sprung vehicles are slightly different to > > those of their coil sprung siblings -- so the wheels don't fit without a > ; fight. > I have the black stamped steel defender 7 inch rims on my 109 and they fit > perfectly. Didn't have to fight with any wooden spoons ether I've been told that the steel wheels off a Discovery won't fit straight on to a Range Rover without modification! Cheers. Tony. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Nov 6 16:56:30 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:56:30 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: RoverWeb pilfered Jeffrey A. Berg writes: > One small clarification to Tom's "most accurate posting" I've seen on this > topic. In the U.S., copyright is implicit upon creation. The only real [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > if you file early, but having the earlier copyright doesn't really prove > anything. Thanks for the clarification. That's what I was saying, obviously not well. Snip > Tom, my former department at NYU used to host the Center For Copyright and > New Media, which was also looking into these issues from both a U.S. and > International perspective. I believe Donna DeMac moved the Center uptown > to Columbia University, and you might want to get in touch. > if you file early, but having the earlier copyright doesn't really prove Thanks, I'll pass it on to our local organizer. Snip Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Russell U Wilson Mon Nov 6 18:30:25 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:30:25 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Camelvideo/Mansfield heater I just saw the Camel Trophey video on ESPN2....shit. 30 min of shit. I wouldn't waste the postage to send someone a blank tape to copy it. You see more Discovery 4X4 action in a single commercial than what you see in this 30 min show. * star out of 4. The other thing I was going to babble about is the Mansfield heater from Rovers North. I'm about to put one into my RHD 67 88. Has anyone on the list installed this beast?? I measured yesterday(measure twice cut once)....or something .. wooo I think there is about 2-3mm to spare....Hmmmmm anyone with words of wisdom, advice, or horror stories would be welcome. I now (drum roll please) have a round type Smith's heater for sale. Anyone out there doing a restoration needing this fine piece of heating equipment drop me a note. Price is cheap.....damn cheap. Russ From "Francis J. Twarog" Mon Nov 6 18:40:46 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:40:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: trivia? So- to take full responsibility for a stupid comment - the prototype LR did indeed use a Jeep frame, but it was not wood (goes to show just how knowledgeable I am in Jeep lore). I own Dixon a beer. That was so dumb, I might just own him a home-brew. :( As for info on the trip to Colorado in August '96 - mark your calendars!!! The Solihull Society in tentitively scheduled for August 8 - 14th. So the trip I'm hoping to rally a few of you into will probably begin aroung August 1st or 2nd. BTW the rally may be located in the Crested Butte (two words?) area - obviously where the trip will finish. I now have in my hands the route book of Tom Collin's trip. So now, I will begin the task of personally (again) inviting the clubs to participate, since I have the 2 major items that needed to be settled now taken care of. Look out for a note next week. As for trivia, many people were correct in answering that the Monteverdis were early '80s Range Rovers that were converted from 2 to 4 doors before the factory decided to produce them. Curiously enough, LR did have a prototype 4 door as early as 1972 - whose exterior looked *IDENTICAL* to the one they started to produce 11 years later (even the door handles were the same) - one can only speculate why they chose to wait for a product that the automotive world was screaming should be developed! Anyway, I cannot confirm if the Monteverdis were factory authorised - perhaps someone knows? For today's trivia - there is a Land Rover model somewhere in the world that is not only referred to by another brand name, but also shares its model name with one of Eric Clapton's alblums (Tracy Chapman, too, for that matter) - what is it? Frank Twarog Burlington, VT From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Mon Nov 6 15:56:33 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:56:33 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Picking up new RR >How do RR's like saltwater anyway? Salt water is very nasty stuff for any vehicle. Some (most?) beach sand has a high salt content as well. Be sure to hose the engine and undercarriage off as SOON as possible after your trip to the beach. Be sure to get up under and in all the nooks & crannies of the frame. > And what sort of air-compresser is recommended. Any sort will do. I have a cheapy electric compressor the plugs into the lighter socket. It takes about 5 min/tire to go from 25-30 lbs. Another idea is to pump you spare tire to 50+ lbs (be careful you do this with a good tire and don't exceed the max pressure rating) and buy a hose to connect the spare tire that can be used to inflate the tires. There are more expensive alternatives as well. > I need to lower the tire pressure on the beach and then raise it before getting on the road. True, You could deflate your tires to 18lbs for the beach, then pump them up to only 25 or so to get you to the first filling station (the one with a carwash for # 1 above) then pump them up to "road" pressure for the trip home. Happy Trails! _____ /|__|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From jpappa01@interserv.com Mon Nov 6 19:16:08 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 19:16:08 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Steering noise couple of observations on steering noise: -on D90. There is a fix for a hard left turn groaning. A steering pipe replaced under warranty. -on Disco. Rubbing/chaffing *COULD* be SRS airbag harness. There is a certain way the whole bloody thing should be packed and perhaps a steering wheel change upset this. Cure is simple. Repack *DON'T TRY IT YOURSELF!!!!* In fact, don't ever remove an SRS-equipped steering wheel yourself. Let the dealer do it since that is clearly a safety/warranty issue. Groaning noises? Could be anything from low reservoir, to a failing steering pump. Not likely w/10K miles but if noise getting worse should be investigated. John, check fluid level for starters. Also inspect track rods/steering gear for lodged debris if you've been off-roading the Disco at all... Above items are things I have seen before. Best to refer to service dept. for advice- particularly on units in-warranty. You paid for that warranty in the vehicle price! Take advantage of it. -squeaky wheel? There is a large plastic washer inside assembly that can go belly up. Replacement is a simple dealer fix. -BTW, first 4.6 HSE delivered to New England now a BSROA member! Congrats to Al Kelley of New Hampshire. Rioja Red w/Pirelli Scorpions. Tires somewhat of an off-road compromise but it sure looks brutal! cheerz Jim - drain bamage due to Roverloading! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Nov 06 23:04:21 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:04:21 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Movies. Tony Yates states... > Since this started I don't think I've seen a movie WITHOUT a Rover. > Perhaps we should have a list of movies with no Landrovers, it might be > easier! Yup.. Land Rovers are getting to be *quite* the popular vehicle these days. Too popular. Maybe its time to change to something a bit more obscure. Like, for instance, the Panhard. Sure, thats the ticket. I'll sell my Rover and get a Panhard.... OHMYGOD! What am I saying??? I must be mad... Yes! That's it. Mad as a hatter. Yahoo! Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Nov 06 23:04:49 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:04:49 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: HELP: no go at 30 miles Bill clogs his fuel line... > The problem started after I had had a new tranny and clutch installed on > my military IIA. La Rana (the frog) lost power around thirty miles on the > way home. After much trouble shooting (much misdirected trouble shooting) > I determined that the fuel filter was stopping the fuel flow. It was a .......snip........ > blocking it. Opened the filter, drained it and never found the problem. I > replaced the complete filter and attaching fuel line pieces and > everything seemed fine. Drove La Rana about 30 miles and it did the same > thing. I've added new gas, different gas station. It appears that it So... what is common to both tanks? Some fuel lines and the control valve. Get a new piece of fuel line and go directly from one tank to the pump. See it that clears up the problem. Try directly from the other tank too. If it does turn out to be a tank problem, there are places that steam-clean tanks and re-seal them. You can do it yourself, but I'm inclined to believe that a place that specializes in fuel tank repair will do a better job. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Nov 06 23:04:36 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:04:36 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Do I *really* need to stop? Tim's brakes.... > to get much, and the first does almost nothing. I don't know if the cold > is related or not. I checked my resivoir and it was low (about half > full), so I .........snip....... > Just for the record, the fluid is Castrol GTLMA. Thats what the P.O. > said use *only*. And I've learned here that the fluid type is critical, / Many years ago...(when I was young and stupid - now I'm just stupid) I put the wrong type of fluid in my Triumph's clutch resevoir. The very first day that the temperature dropped in the teens, all the fluid leaked out. Now, I can't say for sure that the wrong type of fluid caused the seals to malfunction or if was just age, but ever since then I've used Castrol. You only use Castrol and the PO *said* he only used Castrol... Who knows for sure? Possibly you have seals that have deteriorated enough to be effected by the cold. If it happens again, you will know. As to frozen nipples (I'm sure Bill Maloney will comment on that one), if you are lucky you can get them out and put in new ones. You will probably need to use an Easy-out to extract them. Personally, I would bite the bullet and just replace the wheel cylinders. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Nov 06 23:04:01 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:04:01 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: The tangled webs we weave... Dave "Web Schmeb, etc, etc." Bobeck rants... > gear oil. Start it up. Smell the exhaust. Open the window. Start it > again. This is what Land-Rover's are about. They're not about > WorldWebWhiners or FTP's (Full Tank, Petrol?) or HTML's (Hot Meals?)or any START IT AGAIN!!! ROFLMAO From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Nov 06 23:05:05 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:05:05 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: RR in the movies > Was it "Roxanne" where Steve Martin is the firefighter with a LWB LR > parked in his carport? Sure was.... Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Nov 06 23:05:15 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:05:15 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Note on Hubs and Brakes Nate says... > 5. If your old trailing shoe has threaded holes for the anchor plate, > don't > panic, the new shoes don't so you have to either use self tapping screws > or find appropriate bolt and nut. Better yet, get the right sized tap and re-thread the holes in the new shoes. Cheers Mike From jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Mon Nov 6 21:51:03 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:51:03 -0800 From: jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Subject: Re: Disco arriving any day: Cold Feet Well, I haven't had any problems that have caused me to be dead in the water. The only problem I've had was with my front sunroof, which jammed upon opening, but I was able to close it. The dealership rebuilt it a 1,000 miles ago, and I haven't had any problems with it since. For the record, I've taken my Discovery on a 6,500 mile road trip around the western U.S. during July. This included 10,000 ft. mountain passes, driving around the desert southwest (Mojave and Four Corners) and crossing the Great Plains during a 100+ degree heat wave. And, yes, I've had it off road. Cheers! John '95 5Spd Discovery, 11,500 miles At 11:52 06.11.95 PST, Bennett Leeds wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] >vehicle has been. >- Bennett From rmodica@east.pima.edu Mon Nov 06 22:54:09 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 22:54:09 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Disco squeaking RE: Disco steering wheel squeaking. Had the same thing at 14,500. The dealer replaced the rotary coupling on the wheel under warranty. No more squeaking. Took them .5 hours labor @ $72.50/hour. How does that labor rate compare around the US? Most "upper scale" dealers are still around $45/hour. On the subject of "Who waves?" -- I've driven my 1960 SII 109" since I bought it in 1979 and the people who wave depend on the people driving. I've had lots of Series waves and a few RR waves. Now that Discos are on the market and I'm driving Casper more and more (love that AC when its 110 degrees F) (love that radio) (love that heater) I find that very few RR wave and not too many Discos wave. It depends on the driver, not the vehicle. Here in AZ lots of RR are owned by the $$$$$$, but the AZLRO drives I've been on were mostly RR. Arizona has lost most of its rust free Series vehicles to the East Coast. Tucson has been noticeably depleted of Series Land Rovers over the last 15 years. That leaves RR and Discos. Some wave, some don't. Let's stop flaming and stereotyping people by their vehicle and try a little patience and good humor. If you meet a "non-waver" educate them. When you meet a "waver" be happy. Anyone in the US found a cheap place to buy a Disco workshop manual that covers the 3.9 engine? Spending $125 from the dealer is not my idea of happy camping. Has anyone tried to mount a CB radio in the space above the interior light in a Disco? I don't have the rear AC but the access cover reveals a nice space that looks like it could hold a CB with just a little cutting of the opening. Any ideas? Rob Modica '51 SI 80" '60 SII 109" Safari Tucson, AZ '94 Disco 5spd "Casper" From rover@europa.com (Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon) Mon Nov 06 22:39:14 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 22:39:14 -0800 From: rover@europa.com (Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon) Subject: Lumenition Alan: The device you are looking for is actually two pieces to the Lumenition "Optronic(r) ignition." There's the LED and photo-transistor pickup, plus the device affectionately known as "the chopper" that fits on the rotor. I have the original pamphlet that must have come with the Lumenition when one of the PO's installed it on my 88. It lists the manufacturer as Lumenition, a division of Autocar Equipment Ltd., 77-85 Newington Causeway, London SE1 6BJ. No phone, but perhaps one of our right-side-of-the-pond brethren could tell you if the company is still in business. I'd be more than happy to fax or snail mail you a copy (it's pretty fine print), since it also gives you a circuit diagram. One item: the pamphlet for this electrical device proudly states A BRITISH INVENTION. Run away! Run away! Just to avoid the flames, even the pamphlet states that Lumenition is "approved for road and marine use only and must not be used in aircraft of any kind." Please tell me Lucas also stayed away from avionics! Brad =="Rover? Who drives it?"===========Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com=== .."That would be telling"..................rover@europa.com... ==========--The Prisoner=====================69 IIA 88" Bug-eye=== From Roger Sinasohn Mon Nov 6 23:01:32 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:01:32 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: RoverWeb, LROA, OVLR, et al. Bye-bye? Folks, please! We are Land Rover owners, not religious terrorists! (Will someone assinate Dixon if he joins LROA? (I know, he's already a member.)) My point is, it doesn't matter whose name is on the RoverWeb. What matters is that the information is available! Ben Smith and Dixon Kenner (I know them both) are both great guys, and more importantly, incredibly hard working LR pushers. If they say they'll maintain the RoverWeb, then by gum it, you can bet it will be maintained and even expanded! As to the LROA vs. OVLR thing. LROA and OVLR are *NOT* in competition with each other. BMW & M-Benz compete. Apple Computer and Compaq compete. LROA and OVLR should *COOPERATE*! I think people need to watch a little more Sesame Street maybe. Sure, OVLR is based in Canada, and LROA in the US, but who cares? LR's are made in England, and sold just about everywhere. physical location is irrelevant on the internet. The RoverWeb is being maintained by Dixon and Ben. They also happen to be working on the OVLR web pages. Well surprise, they're both members of OVLR. Okay, so neither one sleeps. So what? The more the merrier! Yes, I've done up a couple of pages for the LROA. Compare them to the OVLR and RoverWeb pages. The LROA pages suck. Why? Because I don't have the technical skill nor the immense amount of time to put into it that Ben & Dixon have. A while back, I felt that the LROA should have some sort of web presence, so I typed up some outdated info I had laying around, and posted it for all to see. Unauthorized, unofficial, etc. If someone wants to make it better, please do. But we need to work together to save our own butts. (You guys should try owning an Atari computer sometime. Then you might really learn what it means to work together for the common good!) As to LROA and what's been happening with that... My personal feelings have no bearing on the matter. I didn't "back" anyone, and I can't think of anyone I've met in the LR world whom I wouldn't consider a friend. Yes, there were changes made recently. Up until now, LROA has been a loosely organized club, with no formal by-laws or what-have-you. This is great for a small club. My Atari club is the same way, and basically has a president-for-life (me). But LROA is now over 600 members, has a really good magazine, and expenses-versus-income. It needs more organization. OVLR reached this stage a while back, and managed to make it past this hump. I certainly hope they will share their experiences and wisdom with LROA! (OVLR also has, perhaps, an advantage in that they're in Canada, and not the overly litigious US.) Yes, there was a meeting, and new officers were elected. One candidate was offered for each position, because only one person volunteered for each. But these are only temporary elections (as I understand it) until such time as by-laws can be written, elections figured out, etc. And yes, currently all of the executives are located in N. Ca. I agree this sucks, as does everyone. There are people looking into how other clubs are able to handle spread out executives. Suggestions are welcome. OVLR is a great club. LROA is a great club. All LRO's are great people (unless they prove themselves otherwise.) Personally, I don't have time, interest, or a healthy enough heart to deal with this BS. I like being a member of LROA and OVLR, and if I were rich I'd belong to BSROA, BRLRC, Flatland, etc. as well. As it is, I've dropped my subscription to LRO because I can't afford it. When this gets to be unpleasant as this whole "RoverWeb Pilfered" thread is, I'll unsubscribe and unjoin. Sure, I won't have the luxury of getting advice from others, and I won't be able to go on trips with others, but I'll be just as happy by myself with my 109" and my stuffed tiger. Maybe then I'll have time for my button collection, or that big stack of books to read or... Let's grow up and be friends. Let's work together for the good of our Land Rovers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Nov 6 23:00:46 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:00:46 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Discovery Woes > Sorry for interrupting, but as a non-native English-speaking uhh typing > member of the list, could any one explain to me what a ham radio is? I Just listen to most any morning DJ in a US metropolitan area... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de Tue Nov 7 11:14:52 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 11:14:52 MET From: tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: back with new email address Hi all, when I came back from a short climing trip to Italy in September I found a mail from the sysadmin that my account will expire soon. After that I had to arange lots of things with my PhD theses, so I had no time for virtual ;-) Land Rovers (hardly had time for mine). But here I'm again. You can reach me at the address below or at tbr1102@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de. happy rovering Franz --------------------------------------------------------------- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ (still unnamed! please help!) From "Kirk Dowswell" Tue Nov 07 16:07:57 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 16:07:57 PST From: "Kirk Dowswell" Subject: Disco "Duning" As a new member to the LRO digest and a new owner of a 1996 Disco TDi(1,500 miles) I would be grateful if someone could confirm the following queries. Living in this part of the world (United Arab Emirates) most of my off road driving is through the high sand dunes (duning) or along dry river beds in the mountains (wadi bashing). Before buying the Disco I owned a Toyota Landcruiser II and managed to negotiate most things quite easily, however, with the Disco I have encountered the following problems: 1. As the Disco has a diesel engine I don't get the quick burst of speed which you need to ascend or descend sand dunes. After getting stuck a few times I decided to use the diff-h which seemed to do the trick. Does it harm the vehicle to engage the diff for long periods of time ? 2. As I bought the car for export to Australia I had air bags installed. When duning, you quite often hid sand with quite an impact. Not wanting to set off the airbags I disconnected the fuse. By doing this am I fully disabling the bags? or can they still go off? 3. The car is a RHD Disco U.K. specs. The dealer assures me that the specs. are also the same for Australia. Is this correct? I have enjoyed reading the various discussions over the last few weeks and look forward to the replies. If anyone wants an idea of the terrain out here, the FIA world cup for cross country rallies just had the UAE Desert Challenge here last week. It should be on one of your sports channels soon. It's pretty exciting stuff. Kirk Dowswell Higher Colleges of Technology Al Ain, United Arab Emirates. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Nov 7 07:04:27 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:04:27 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: waving On the subject of who waves. If you think other rover owners don't wave enough, try driving a lightweight. I've even had a series driver not wave. I've learned to not take it personally, but look at the person as an uneducated owner. They just don't know what the hell I'm driving. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Richard Jones Tue Nov 7 13:17:39 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:17:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: trivia? Francis J. Twarog writes: > As for trivia, many people were correct in answering that the Monteverdis > were early '80s Range Rovers that were converted from 2 to 4 doors before > the factory decided to produce them. Prototype was built in March 1979 and was produced until December 1982 when the Monteverdi Factory closed down. See http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/classic/monteverdi.html if you would like a little more information. > Curiously enough, LR did have a > prototype 4 door as early as 1972 - whose exterior looked *IDENTICAL* to > the one they started to produce 11 years later (even the door handles > were the same) The 1972 prototype had quarterlights in the front door windows (in common with the 2 door vehicles of the period) which were replaced with one piece windows on the production vehicles. > - one can only speculate why they chose to wait for a > product that the automotive world was screaming should be developed! For most of the 70's there was a 6-12 month waiting list for 2-door the 2 door model, so made little sense dissrupting the production line to tool up for a 4 door model. Also the profits Land Rover were making were being sucked up by rest of British Leyland, and there was NO money to invest in NEW models (however similar to existing models). > Anyway, I cannot confirm if the Monteverdis were factory authorised - > perhaps someone knows? Monteverdi's were Factory Approved and were sold through Selected Land Rover dealers with full Land Rover warrantees. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Russell U Wilson Tue Nov 7 08:33:10 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:33:10 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Re: The tangled webs we weave... On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Dave "Web Schmeb, etc, etc." Bobeck rants... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > > again. This is what Land-Rover's are about. They're not about > > WorldWebWhiners or FTP's (Full Tank, Petrol?) or HTML's (Hot Meals?)or any With all due respect to all involved I would have to second Dave's motion..... Russ W. From Russell U Wilson Tue Nov 7 08:35:41 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:35:41 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Re: Movies. On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Tony Yates states... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > Yahoo! > Mike Panhard?????? Panhead, I know. Panhard....Hmmm Tell us a story about the mystical Panhard. Russ W. From Richard Jones Tue Nov 7 13:37:45 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:37:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Disco "Duning" Kirk Dowswell writes: > 1. As the Disco has a diesel engine I don't get the quick burst of > speed which you need to ascend or descend sand dunes. After getting > stuck a few times I decided to use the diff-h which seemed to do the > trick. Does it harm the vehicle to engage the diff for long periods of > time ? You should only harm the vehicle if the diff lock is engaged on a "non slip" surface (ie a surface that is going to "wind up" the transmission when not travelling in straight lines). Since you are probably going to spend the majority of the time going in straight lines, and sand is not exactly "non slip" you should have no problem. As more than one of the Land Rover Demo Team drivers have said (and on more than one occasion: "Anywhere you would think twice about driving a normal road car you should lock the diff" The diff lock is there to help prevent you getting stuck in the first place (and it can't do that if its not engaged), not to get you out once you are stuck. > 2. As I bought the car for export to Australia I had air bags > installed. When duning, you quite often hid sand with quite an impact. > Not wanting to set off the airbags I disconnected the fuse. By doing > this am I fully disabling the bags? or can they still go off? Land Rover went to great lengths to make sure the air bags would not go off by accident while off roading. Should you manage to reproduce all the circumstances required to detonate the air bags while off road, you shouldn't have been doing what ever it was you were doing, and the air bags probably just saved you from serious injury! Air Bags ... don't mess with them!!!! On a lighter note there is a video kicking about, produced by Land Rover at the Gaydon Proving Ground, demonstrating a Discovery being VERY VERY seriously abused on the Off Road Test Track without detonating the Air Bags. If you could afford to fix the damage that must have resulted from the way it was being driven, you could afford to by a new Discovery every time the Air Bag went off :-) > 3. The car is a RHD Disco U.K. specs. The dealer assures me that the > specs. are also the same for Australia. Is this correct? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > Kirk Dowswell > Higher Colleges of Technology > Al Ain, United Arab Emirates. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From crash@merl.com Tue Nov 7 09:02:22 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:02:22 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Disco cold feet?? Don't worry. Well, I've got 41K on my 94 Disco, and yes, it's been in the shop more than once for repairs. It goes in again in two weeks for final before-end-of-warranty tweaks and mumbles. It _never_ needed to be towed to the dealer. UNLIKE every other car I've ever owned new, it always was drivable the whole time (creaky, maybe ... go easy, often ... leaking, of course! It's British!). But I've _never_ been stuck to the point of needing to call Recovery because the car wouldn't move under it's own power. Unlike the subarus, hondas, toyotas, chryslers, blahblahblah, (all of which have truly stranded me somewhere sometime in the past) Land Rover has perfected the art of the Soft Failure. Sure, it breaks. Anything can break. But if you overdesign well enough, it doesn't matter if any one part is broke because other parts are overdesigned enough to take up the load to get you home. Things like full-floating axles, double seals, huge fluid reservoirs, bolt-down brake calipers with redundant pistons, a timing CHAIN running in oil instead of a belt. It's not a car that "might" run forever with no maintenance. It _will_ require maintenance. Accept that now- wave down the Snap-On truck and get a good set of socket wrenches as your first accessory. But a Land Rover is a vehicle that, properly maintained, will run forever. Would I buy one again? Yes. Anybody wanna sell a Series IIa or III in pass-MA-inspection condition? My budget is $3K to $6K... -Bill Yerazunis ( 94 Disco, and I wave ) From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Tue Nov 7 07:23:51 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:23:51 -0700 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: HELP: no go at 30 miles Though unlikely in this case, I always like to mention the time I tried to track down an intermittent fuel starvation (which `i attributed to vapor lock for some time) which turned out to be a fuel pickup tube which was almost filled with corrosion and would only let a sip of fuel through, and was easily clogged by floating debris. Since you have 2 tanks, this is most certainly not your problem, but don't forget that the fuel pickup tubes are part of the system... -jory From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Tue Nov 07 15:42:40 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 15:42:40 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Subject: LandRover Magazines Hello all, Now and then there are some LR magazines mentioned on this list. I wonder if someone can send me the titles of these magazines and also the address for subscription( if possible if one is living in the Netherlands ?:-) ). Maybe there is even someone who can send me an example of one of these magazines. As far as I know( but then what do I know? Well, I think I know how to drive a LandRover ?;-) ) there are no such magazines available down here in the Netherlands. Any info would be appreciated... Thanks! LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Dicovery, ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From Easton Trevor Tue Nov 07 09:55:00 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 09:55:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Manuals and dirty hands Nate Dunsmore wrote " If possible, have Chris Stevens (or other friend) available to read the manual as you work if it is your first go through since your hands will be covered in 90 wt oil and grease." Another good route is to photocopy the pages (OHMIGOD copyright infringement) you are using so the copies suffer the dirt and grunge. Also this way you can enlarge the page and make it easier to read when your eyes are full of dirt and grit from beneath your vehicle. While we are at it let's have the enlarged pages laminated and then they can be washed and re used. Trevor (call me "Dixon" when I'm at the copier) Easton From Trefor Delve Tue Nov 07 14:59:00 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 14:59:00 GMT From: Trefor Delve Subject: Not an LR question but about Money, Cash, Dosh, ... This is directed to the readers in Oz, Sorry to put this on the net (as it's not a Rover related question), but I'm sure that someone will be able to advise me. I am considering applying for a research post in Australia and I need to know what the going rate of pay for a Research Associate and Research Fellow, and how this compares to jobs in industry that require similar experience. Here in the UK, RA and RF positions are poorly paid in comparison to their industrial counterparts. As this is not a Rover issue, could anyone who can help mail me directly. Thanks, Trefor, tdelve@nectech.co.uk Message-Type: Delivery Report From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Nov 07 10:23:53 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 10:23:53 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: The tangled webs we weave... Dave "Web Schmeb, etc, etc." Bobeck rants... > gear oil. Start it up. Smell the exhaust. Open the window. Start it > again. This is what Land-Rover's are about. They're not about > WorldWebWhiners or FTP's (Full Tank, Petrol?) or HTML's (Hot Meals?)or any START IT AGAIN!!! ROFLMAO Especially for those of us with Weber Carbs. Hack Hack Sputter... Ppffffffffffffffffffffht. :-) From Mike Rooth Tue Nov 7 14:14:53 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 14:14:53 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: waving > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu > Four wheel drive allows you to get > stuck in places even more inaccessible. On the other hand Tom,perhaps they *do*.Lowering thought,isnt it?:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 07 95 Nov EST 1910 Date: 07 Nov 95 10:40:03 EST From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: Message from Internet FROM: INTERNET:owner-lro-digest-ltd@uk.stratus.com, INTERNET:owner-lro-digest-ltd@uk.stratus.com DATE: 11/2/95 4:13 AM Re: Message from Internet transfer.stratus.com DAA17307 for Message-Id: <199511020857.DAA17307@butler.uk.stratus.com> Reply-To: Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 01 95 Nov EST 1905 Date: 01 Nov 95 05:09:44 EST From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: 1988 Range Rover for sale 1988 Range Rover for sale for $12,950. It has 115k miles but is in excellent condition. I live near Fredricksburg VA off I -95, between Washington DC and Richmond VA. I am NOT anxious to sell. Cheers Cliff From jpappa01@interserv.com Wed Nov 1 08:55:56 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 08:55:56 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: D110 4-SALE It has 15,000 miles. Has been stored over a year on blocks(!). Immaculate. Full waterproofs. Rear bed liner. Bonnet mounted spare conversion by Rovers North. $47,000 Firm. Never off-roaded. I know the owner and history of this ---- cut here ---- End of Multipart LRO-Digest Section: /tmp/951102.aa of /tmp/951102.ad From jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Tue Nov 7 07:45:40 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:45:40 -0800 From: jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Subject: Re: LandRover Magazines Roy, There are two major Land Rover publications that I would expect a well-stocked newstand in Holland that deals in English language publications would probably have. The publications and their subscription addresses are: Land Rover Owner International Anglian House Chapel Lane Botesdale, Diss. Norfolk IP22 1DT United Kingdom Land Rover World Subscriptions Department Hainault Road Little Heath, Romford Essex RM6 5NP United Kingdom Land Rover Owner Int'l lists its annual subscription rate for air mail to western Europe at 40 pounds (UK). Land Rover World doesn't list a subscription price, but I would expect it to be about the same. Hope this helps. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 15:42 07.11.95 +0001, wassili@AMC.UVA.NL wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Hello all, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] >[|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] > ( o ) ( o ) From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Tue Nov 07 10:47:05 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 10:47:05 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Hub nut socket? Hi all, As long as I'm going to tear apart my brakes, I'm going to fix my leaky hubs as well. Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket? My Rover budget is getting a little lean, with the exhaust and electrics *last* month, and xmas next manth... Can I make do with another socket or is this some wierd size? Thanks again, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW aka "Algernon" From Dixon Kenner Tue Nov 7 10:56:24 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RoverWeb, LROA, OVLR, et al. Bye-bye? On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > (OVLR also has, perhaps, an advantage in that they're in Canada, and not > the overly litigious US.) It may be of interest to some club members (any LR club) that they should possibly consider something that we have done in Canada to deal with the possibility of the litigious tendencies south of the border flowing northwards. (Just because we don't have it yet, doesn't mean we won't get it. Thus, we will be ready for it when it does arrive. You don't necessarily have to be taught to be cautious...) The greatest problem with being a member of any club, is the threat of litigation. Should something happen, you as a member of a club are liable. Executive members are especially so. When a club is being sued, the targets start at the executive and anyone else who seems to have deep pockets. The deeper the pockets, the higher up the list you will be. (This explains the recent LROA decision not to hold any events. The Exec doesn't want to get sued. Depending on USA law, the membership probably doesn't want to get sued either. Hence, for now, LROA will put out a fine newsletter and nothing else for the time being.) Sure incorporation is a pain. It costs $$$, you have to actually have semi regular meetings, you have to keep proper minutes, you have to file tax returns, you have to have a charter/consitution and bylaws and actually follow them. (if the bylaws say you have a monthly/bimonthly etc newsletter, you gotta get it out on time. Elections? Better follow those rules. Complainers, whiners etc can make life difficult for you now...) However, off setting this pain is the fact if there is a lawsuit, \ the corporation takes it in the chin. The executive and membership are safe. Club assets? Most clubs have zero in assets. Some do, like OVLR which owns tools, towbars, a kitchen trailer... This leads us to point two... We don't want to lose these assets, neither do you... Clubs should have insurance of some sort. However, insurance is not cheap. The Volvo Club in Ottawa is paying somewhere between $600 and $800 for a million worth of insurance. With a small membership base (and only LROA has the base to make this reasonable at this time, for the large regional clubs at the 100+ members it is feasible, for the smaller local clubs, impossible. Of course, insurance in the USA may be dramatically higher. Forget what LRNA forked over for the ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally last year) OVLR is paying under $100 for twice the coverage. How? Well, a lot of clubs in Ontario had this problem. The Motorsport Club of Ottawa dropping a pick-up with father/daughter through the ice on the Ottawa River a couple years ago woke a lot of people up. A great number of British Car clubs banded together and formed the British Car Council. The BCC is an incorporated body, with British car clubs as members (no individual memberships available). Clubs pay a set fee based on the size of local members. This fee covers BCC opeations and an insurance policy that covers all events put on by member clubs. (non moving accidents. moving accidents are covered by vehicular insurance at events). OVLR can hold events anywhere in Ontario/Canada (not sure on the scope here) and be covered by this insurance policy. (Note: With the BCC, a club does not have to be incorporated like OVLR is. OVLR thought it safer to go ahead anyway and incorporate. When a club starts to gather assets, incorporation is always a good idea. In fact it is a good idea anyway) USA clubs should seriously consider banding together with other British marque clubs and doing the same (though probably on a state by state basis. No idea how USA law works). Costs drop significantly when numbers grow larger. Safety in numbers... I am surprised that Canadian clubs have actually managed to get farther ahead than the Americans in this regard. We have not experienced the litigation, or the huge outragious settlements that have occured in the USA. We are driven by fear of the same happening in Canada, but the USA clubs should have been way ahead in this matter. (I believe that ARC provides similar protection for its member clubs as well as holding a number of other common "services" available for member clubs. Ford/Chevy/ et al clubs in the USA may already have something like this established that clubs could piggyback onto. Worth checking out.) Suggestion: Clubs execs should check out their membership rolls and see if it includes any lawyers. If so, approach them and see if they will donate the time to incorporate your club. All the club pays are filing fees (which vary from state to state. In Canada filing Federally is about $250 with name search <1> etc.) If it is financially feasible to incorporate. Do it. Holding events afterwards can generate some funds to cover the annual costs. Why bother having a club if it can actually do anything? We are here to do things (even if it is fighting with the aluminium pet every weekend or struggling with a plough harness), not be a bunch of posers. Rgds, Dixon 1. if you have Rover or Land Rover in your name, don't expect to have Land Rover (UK) approve your use of it. They have stopped (for how long we don't know) giving permission for clubs or bodies to use their name in legal documents. Hence Ottawa Valley Land Rovers is actually OVLR Inc. From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Tue Nov 7 14:55:41 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:55:41 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming >at 50 MPH you could rip off the whole axle and still have enough momentum >to reach the dry side. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >I just get out, stand in the water, use the hi-lift jack and put the >rover back on firm ground. Very boring, I will admit. My perspective? Many years ago, I was going to the pub at high speed in my Escort. Followed by a freind in a Capri. I came hammering round a corner and found the road was flooded. So I floored it and skated right across on the floorpan. My freind slammed on the anchors to come thru iin more conventional manner. He drowned about halfway thru as the wwater hit about 2 feet. I had to pull him out..... With a Landrover? I'd guess you'd get across just fine but have to go back for both axles and the frame. From russ burns Tue Nov 7 08:00:44 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:00:44 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands Gee, Maybe we could get paper towels printed up with a rover manual on them....... >Another good route is to photocopy the pages (OHMIGOD copyright >infringement) you are using so the copies suffer the dirt and grunge. Also [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >used. >Trevor (call me "Dixon" when I'm at the copier) Easton From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Tue Nov 7 09:10:48 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:10:48 -0700 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands :Another good route is to photocopy the pages (OHMIGOD copyright :infringement) you are using so the copies suffer the dirt and grunge. Also :this way you can enlarge the page and make it easier to read when your eyes :are full of dirt and grit from beneath your vehicle. While we are at it :let's have the enlarged pages laminated and then they can be washed and re :used. Scandal! I personally find the grease on my manual invaluable. It serves as a sort of service record allowing me to quickly ascertain what work I've already accomplished. I was cruished when myt 5 year old Haynes manual (with my through my frame replacement) was stolen along with all my tools and spares a few months back. -jory From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Nov 07 09:21:09 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 09:21:09 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Disco repair manual FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco repair manual Rob, I have the Discovery factory manual and binder. Paid somewhere around the $125 range, maybe slightly more. I have referred to it on occasion for the Range Rover, even though they're not quite the same, they're close enough. I'd like to find someone with a RR manual that I can trade with. Mine is in "new" condition. When (for example) I installed the Lock-Right lockers in the RR, I xeroxed the appropriate pages from the Disco manual and used the copies so I wouldn't mess up the manual. Anyone want to trade for a (1987) RR manual? If not, Rob? #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Treit Le 7 95 Nov 1909 Date: 7 Nov 95 9:17:34 From: Treit Le Subject: Cold Feet Unfortunately, I don't have a Disco, but I did check into the extended warranty. My dealer offered one genuine warranty (4 years/60K miles) and various others from Fireman's Fund (up to 7 years/100K miles) They were quite expensive, but the nice thing was that you didn't have to buy them right away. You had up until 1 month or 1K miles, before the factory warranty expiration to buy. Of course prices could (will) go up in that time. Some company named "Stan Alan" advertises warranties for many makes in the Autoweek classifieds. They offered a RR warranty at about half the dealer price (7 years/100K miles for $1500US.) I know nothing about these guys, and the company name sounds very fly-by-night. But it's worth a call and a copy of the ad may give you some leverage with the dealer. 500 miles in the RR, and nothing has fallen off yet. The glove box door doesn't always stay closed, but I have been driving a LITTLE more aggressively over the potholes than I used to. All the warnings about saltwater have convinced me to stay in the Montauk Lighthouse parking lot and walk the beach. Oh well. But has anyone done the Rovers North off-road course. Thought it would make for an interesting weekend. And what are these LR "Wheels" sessions that the dealer brochure referred to. From GElam30092@aol.com Tue Nov 7 11:39:57 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:39:57 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Discovery Reliability Several comments on the reliability of the Discovery for the person getting cold feet: Im at 13,000 with a 95 Discovery purchased new in Atlanta. I now reside in Phoenix. The Discovery has been in the dealers care for the normal checks. In addition to the normal checks, I had one interior piece replaced due to a scratch (discovered during delivery) and Ive had the transmission overheat sensor replaced (yesterday). Oh, I had the tires re-balanced during a scheduled dealer check. I suspect that I have more off-road miles than the normal Discovery. (Sorry.. not trying to put anyone down!). At least in comparison to the few *pristine* Discovery that reside in my neck of the woods. In fact, if you saw the new Discovery commercial that was shown on ESPN2, my wife remarked that that is how I usually come home.... extremely dirty. Where are the elephants when you need them? Heck, I was almost grateful to have the dealer fix the minor repair in order to get it cleaned up! (Disclaimer: if I lived anywhere else but dry-dry Phoenix, I wouldnt let dirt & dust accumulate on it! Frame rust? Here?) New Vehicle Protection Warranty: Spoke to the dealer in Scottsdale yesterday regarding the new warranty. The factory warranty is 3 years, 42K miles... whichever comes first. The GE warranty adds 4 years up to 100K miles. Their price was $2175. Jeeez! I spoke to the dealer in Atlanta this morning. Their price was significantly less. My advice: you better shop around. I would imagine that ANY dealer would be willing to write you a policy for a piece of the action. Imagine, several hundred dollars profit for 15 minutes worth of work. Give it a shot. Price increases: The Atlanta guys did have a slight price increase and should rightfully be charging over $2k for the increased warranty. They choose not to since they felt there would be consumer resistance at the $2k figure and they wouldnt sell any. If there is another price increase, theyll up theirs. Bottom line: Ive had less trouble with this vehicle than any other Ive owned. Amazing considering where were been together. Expectations for the future: I expect things to break considering how hard we go at it. I also expect to do the work myself once the vehicle is out of warranty (either the factory or the extended if I go that route.... and I probably will). From what seem on the LRO and the west-coast list, if you arent willing to work on it yourself (after warranty), youre just another yuppie looking for status. Gerry Latte .... nah... creek water" Elam From Dixon Kenner Tue Nov 7 11:54:23 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:54:23 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, jory bell wrote: > Scandal! I personally find the grease on my manual invaluable. It serves as > a sort of service record allowing me to quickly ascertain what work I've > already accomplished. I agree wholeheartedly. In fact a clean manual is the sign of someone who might not actually do anything to his Land Rover, know how to do it, and/or has someone else do it. A dirty manual can be considered a badge of honour. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Nov 7 11:17:35 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:17:35 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: waving > > trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu > > Four wheel drive allows you to get [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Cheers > Mike Rooth Oh absolutely. I speak from experience. But then, that's half the fun. Especially when you're alone. Of course inaccessible doesn't nessasarily mean "remote", I suppose. In VT during mud season I pulled out a guy that was stuck in the road in front of my house. Had to dig down a foot just to reach his bumper. The road was like walking on a waterbed. Man, I miss VT. :-( Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Nov 7 11:39:31 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:39:31 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: clubs Dixon writes: snip > However, off setting this pain is the fact if there is a lawsuit, \ > the corporation takes it in the chin. The executive and membership > are safe. Dixon, Perhaps it's different in Canada, but one thing I learned working with cooperatives and serving as a director is that the board can be held accountable in a lawuit. However, the way the law is written right now (and it varies from state to state) is that it would have to be proved that the BoD acted without reasonable care, or knowledge that they were acting improperly. Of course you have to define "reasonable care". So anyway, at least here in the states, being incorporated doesn't automatically protect the BoD. Hence idemnification insurance for the BoD might be worth considering. snip > Suggestion: Clubs execs should check out their membership rolls > and see if it includes any lawyers. If so, approach them and see > if they will donate the time to incorporate your club. Again, having worked with cooperatives (which are member based) be careful about having someone do it just because they're a member/lawyer. Some of the worst bylaws and articles of incorporation I've seen were written by a member/lawyer. This, of course, doesn't mean they can't do a good job. It just means they're another lawyer, maybe good, maybe bad. It reminds me of the blurb I heard on the radio the other day. The late Chief Justice Burger wrote his own will and now it's going to cost his heirs mucho dollars. snip Your suggestion about a national organization for clubs is a good idea in order to reduce the cost of insurance for events. ps. Define "shame" as in "That's a shame." Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Nov 7 11:46:23 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:46:23 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Hub nut socket? tim harincar asks: snip > Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket? My Rover budget is getting > a little lean, with the exhaust and electrics *last* month, and xmas next > manth... snip Do you or a friend have a welder? If so, you can make your own. I did when my store-bought one went walkabout. A half or 3/4 in drive socket to fit would cost more that $25. I've seen many hub nuts done up with a chisel. Uuggghhhh. It gives me the shivers. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Nov 7 12:11:13 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:11:13 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: clubs I wrote: Snip > held accountable in a lawuit. However, the way the law is written > right now (and it varies from state to state) is that it would have > to be proved that the BoD acted without reasonable care, or knowledge that > they were acting improperly. Boy, that's not clear. What I meant is that it would have to be proven that they knew that they were acting improperly or that they acted without "reasonable care". Snip Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk (Craig Morgan) Tue Nov 7 18:04:01 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:04:01 +0000 From: C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk (Craig Morgan) Subject: Re: Virgin Airlines At 4:46 am 6/11/95, you wrote: >There was a story about why Richard Branson chose a fleet of RR's to >use for his limo service, anyone remember the details of it? Yup, As best I remember it ... he and his family were involved in a high-speed roll on a UK motorway in a a recent RR. They all escaped pretty much unscathed, bruises and abrasions only (RR was totalled, rolling a number of times). He cited this and the luxurious transport (ie. height, air suspension, etc) as his reason for choice. Personally I believe that marketing must have come into it as well, he got a lot of column inches in the UK for what on the surface would have been a very low-key issue. LR made something of it as well in the UK, so he got good coverage all ways. Pretty astute marketing and free publicity for his new scheme ... he seems clever at linking his personal life to 'Virgin' the brand ;-) -- Craig ,,, Wot, NO mountains! ======================oOO=(o o)=OOo=================================== Craig Morgan (_) Lecturer, CS Group School of Computing Email: C.Morgan@soc.staffs.ac.uk Staffordshire University Phone: +44 (0)1785 353466 Beaconside Fax: +44 (0)1785 353497 Stafford, UK ST18 0DG Pager: +44 (0)839 453754 "It's the downhill thrills, that make the uphill slog worthwhile..." ====================================================================== From Rob Bailey Tue Nov 7 12:02:30 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:02:30 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: RE: Kodiak heater knobs >anyone removed the knobs from a kodiak heater ? I want to get the knobs >off [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >and >pull, nothing. You have to put a small screwdriver in and pry at the spring clip inside. I can't remember if you pry in or out, but I believe it was in (i.e. you pull the screwdriver away from the mounting panel, towards yourself, as it levers on the bottom of the knob). You then pull the knob off, as you are prying. My came off quite easily. Hope it helps, Rob From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Tue Nov 7 14:55:41 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:55:41 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Discovery Swimming >at 50 MPH you could rip off the whole axle and still have enough momentum >to reach the dry side. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >I just get out, stand in the water, use the hi-lift jack and put the >rover back on firm ground. Very boring, I will admit. My perspective? Many years ago, I was going to the pub at high speed in my Escort. Followed by a freind in a Capri. I came hammering round a corner and found the road was flooded. So I floored it and skated right across on the floorpan. My freind slammed on the anchors to come thru iin more conventional manner. He drowned about halfway thru as the wwater hit about 2 feet. I had to pull him out..... With a Landrover? I'd guess you'd get across just fine but have to go back for both axles and the frame. From Dixon Kenner Tue Nov 7 14:19:56 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:19:56 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: clubs On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > Perhaps it's different in Canada, but one thing I learned working USA is a whole different ball of wax... Like with UIC comparisons, it would have to be treated as 50 different countries when it comes down to laws governing all this stuff. General guidelines are are all I could really come up with. > care". So anyway, at least here in the states, being incorporated > doesn't automatically protect the BoD. Hence idemnification > insurance for the BoD might be worth considering. This is getting potentially expensive. Of course, the BoD can display "due care", or whatever the applicable term is, displaying they did take all reasonable precautions. > member/lawyer. Some of the worst bylaws and articles of incorporation > I've seen were written by a member/lawyer. This, of course, doesn't > mean they can't do a good job. It just means they're another lawyer, > maybe good, maybe bad. Very true. Just suggesting an alternative to cut down on potential costs to the club in this process. > Your suggestion about a national organization for clubs is a good > idea in order to reduce the cost of insurance for events. All depends on how USA law works in these matters... Idea on a simplier basis has been discussed before. Time for people to do it is entirely another matter. > ps. Define "shame" as in "That's a shame." unfortunate. As opposed to other meanings of shame which imply guilt, dishonour etc. Statement can be taken as being almost meaningless, just a statement, to one where the speaker actually feels sympathy for an incident that occured, yet should not have in an ideal world. Why? From jhong@lava.net (John Y Hong) Tue Nov 07 09:26:08 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 09:26:08 -1000 From: jhong@lava.net (John Y Hong) Subject: re:The tangled webs we weave... Dave, from the home office in DC says: >From: "Bobeck, David R." >Listen Up! >I think everybody (except where Dixon goes to put his plow together) is forgetting what's actually important... >Everybody needs to put down their valiums. GO OUTSIDE and sit in your Land-Rover, if you've got one, >and take a deep inhale. Smell that rotting upholstery. Smell the gear oil. Start it up. Smell the exhaust. Open >the window. Start it again. This is what Land-Rover's are about. [snip] >But give me a choice and I'd rather be outside driving around in my Rover! Or, I mean, er...working on my >Rover... Nuff said. Ah how true it is! I've been stuck in Hawaii for about 3 weeks while me landy sits under a tarp in San Francisco. I think I'll be able to arrange to have it shipped over to Honolulu in about a month. I can just picture it - roaring around Oahu (me exhaust pipe is loose at the header) sans roof, big s-eating grin on my face - cause driving your rover is what it is all about - drips, leaks and #@%&6!!! - included. aroha john From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Tue Nov 07 14:25:56 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 14:25:56 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Possible new club & misc Hi all, Last weekend I met with another fellow here in town and we discussed the formation of a new LR club. Thanks to Roger Sinasohn for sending me a list of LROA members here in Minnesota, one of which was the person I met with. Its interesting, really. Two of the people I spoke on that list, including the one I hooked up with, were both turned off by the local LROA chapter. Seems the chapter has gone through a lot of personell changes, and the status is unknown. Other reasons they sited included meets and meetings that were too distant for urban residents, and general attitude regarding things like Tread Lightly and safety. While none of this I can confirm personally, as I have never attended a meet or meeting, nor seen any of their vehicles personally, I can say that I agree with the ideals of the chap I had discussions with, who at this point refuses to drive with them. Anyhow, thats not the real point, as I was unsure just from the location whether or not I was going to join that local chapter. We decided that maybe there was room in this state for another group, with a little different focus, and that we'd set about making it happen. We're in the process of getting a note in the next RN newsletter, and somehow contacting the other Rover owners in town. RN seems to be a good way to get to other Series owners, but we'd like to get a good mix of vehicles (he has a RR). Any thoughts on contacting people? He gave me a video with highlights of the '80 - '85 camel trophies. Good fun! Lots of different vehicles used during those years, two door RRs, Series IIIs, Defenders, even Jeeps the first year! There was also some video from England with off road rallies whith lots of modified LRs racing. Anyhow, it was a lot of fun meeting with another Rover-head, and I think that a club would be great fun. If your in the Twin Cities area and lurking, drop me a note if you'd like to ba a part. Have fun, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW aka "Algernon" From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Tue Nov 7 11:35:45 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:35:45 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Picking up new RR I take it yours is a Classic? Just curious, does anyone on the list have experience with the Range Rover's air suspension in the wild? I mean, can/does it break down, and if so are you totally buggered (to use a British expression)? Also, does the Disco feature a self-levelling system? -Matt '88 RR From Augustus John Pertalion Tue Nov 7 14:50:01 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:50:01 -0500 (EST) From: Augustus John Pertalion Subject: Carburetor Query I need to replace the carb on my LR. It's a Solex that has been rebuilt at least twice. I was wondering what experience (or satisfaction) other people have had with another Solex, or replacement with a Zenith or Weber carb. I drivethe thing every day and am interested in more power and better gas mileage.(I amtotally serious about this! Do not laugh!) Seriously though, any input based on experience would be welcome. John Pertalion Appalachian State University Boone, NC USA '60 II 88" "Gumdrop" From Dixon Kenner Tue Nov 7 15:09:12 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:09:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: re:The tangled webs we weave... On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, John Y Hong wrote: > Ah how true it is! I've been stuck in Hawaii for about 3 weeks while me > landy sits under a tarp in San Francisco. > a month. I can just picture it - roaring around Oahu (me exhaust pipe is > loose at the header) sans roof, big s-eating grin on my face - cause driving > your rover is what it is all about - drips, leaks and #@%&6!!! - included. You gonna toss the tarp & put a palm top on? Lei about the bonnet mounted spare? Grass skirt (optional on LR & you) :-) From "Tom Rowe" Tue Nov 7 14:43:11 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:43:11 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: waving Mike Rooth wrote: >On the other hand Tom,perhaps they *do*.Lowering thought,isnt it?:-) Mike, Well I'm asleep I guess. Everything but my sig got truncated so I thought you were implying that I was just joking about my sig. Now I realize you were referring to people not knowing what I drive. Now that I understand, I can make the appropriate reply. Piss off, mate ;-) Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Tue Nov 7 13:48:29 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:48:29 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Camel video Regarding Russ's comments about the ESPN show, I acknowledge that a goodly portion of the coverage was of the special tasks at the beginning and end of the trip, such as a foot race with tires and equipment, canoing, etc. Another goodly portion involved interviews with the US team members. In between was some fluff about the Miyan sites visited. However, I was interested to learn about the different parts of the event, including the U.S. trials (I hope to spectate in Hollister this year, and it was evident from the show that there were spectators in Colorado last year), and the international trials. Also, I was interested to see footage, however brief, of the famous task involving pulling the Discoveries across a deep river using only human power. Also, it was interesting to learn about the theme of the event, namely the emphasis on teamwork (ala military bootcamp), and treading more or less lightly on the wilderness, as opposed to balls-to-the-wall 4-wheeling. Nestled between coverage of formula racing, it was poignant. Also of interest to me was a detail about the US team's performance: when Daphne was injured, 1. she was disqualified by a doctor (as opposed to voluntarily withdrawing), and 2. she was replaced, per rules, by a US journalist. I hadn't learned these facts from any other source. Did anyone else know them? One major disappointment to me was that we never once saw the participants take a tool to the Discoveries. I know those diesel engines are reliable, but come on! I wanted to see the 2:00 am transmission work in the mud. If anyone reads this far, might someone tell me what an NAS vehicle does on safari when unleaded fuel is unavailable? I guess for a serious trip you might remove the catalytic converter, but what if I want to go down to Baja for a few days? What damage would befall the cat from leaded fuel? Finally, an explanation of Russ's dissatisfaction might be that the show was actually an hour, not 30 minutes as he seemed to think. -Matt From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Nov 07 17:04:48 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 17:04:48 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: A rovein we shall go... Here lies the fruit of my wasted time... enjoy. Dave Bobeck (copyright1995) _ -| -H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H -| ____||-(#)------------_(#)| /~~~____--\==^===^==\\==^===^==\ ||~~|| | \ / \\ / \ || || | \ / \0 MMMMMMMMMMMMMM 0 || _||__|----||~(~~~~~)~\MMMMMMMMMMMMMM_____ / |~~ | | -----~~~~~\~~~~~~~\==_____===|~~\~~~~~\ | |D | |o o | )|###|( )| | o o| | /\ | | /~~\ | |__|###|___| | | ||/~|| || /~~\| | |#########|| | | /\\\\\\\ | _~~---___ ||| | | |#########||_ | | \\\\\\\\\\\\ | ~ || ~~~| __ |___[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~] \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-\_//-\\\\\\\\| ~~ |||\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I~~~III~~~~~ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\| |||\\\\ | ||| \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \__/// \\\\-\\\\\\--\\\\\\--\_///-\\\\__ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\ LAND--------ROVER \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ From "Kaplan, Richard" Tue Nov 07 17:14:00 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 17:14:00 est From: "Kaplan, Richard" Subject: '95 Disco still running With regard to identifying anyone with a Disco who may NOT have a disastrous story to tell, I and my Disco have lurked for 7200 miles (which, I sheepishly admit, were on pavement) with no problems. Of course, it (if it had a name, he'd be called William so as not to render jealous his older siblings, William, a '54 Morris Minor Traveller, and William de, a 53-54 Morgan +4) is now due for its 7500-mi service, so I may yet have terrors to describe. Also, coming out of the electronic closet and even MENTIONING my lack of bad luck seems like an attempt to anger the gods. Rick Kaplan National Cancer Institute kaplanr@dct.nci.nih.gov From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Nov 7 14:25:12 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Fuels in Baja/ was Camel video On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Matt Snyder wrote: Snipped > If anyone reads this far, might someone tell me what an NAS vehicle does on > safari when unleaded fuel is unavailable? I guess for a serious trip you > might remove the catalytic converter, but what if I want to go down to Baja > for a few days? What damage would befall the cat from leaded fuel? With specific regard to Baja, the best petrol available in Mexico (at least last time I drove through there) is unleaded. Did a job on my 1968 VW camper, too. It thought it needed leaded fuel and the leaded stuff was such low octane that we had to mix it to get an acceptable fuel (am I dating myself?) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW From Lloyd Allison Wed Nov 8 10:46:29 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:46:29 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: engine conversions Don: there is some stuff at http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/4WD.html on Landy engine conversions, including a pointer to Mark's adaptors - and Sarry at Mark's takes email queries. Is anyone collecting the trivia questions ? (please). Lloyd From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Tue Nov 7 17:35 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:35 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Update from the hospital I am progressing well in the hospital. I am scheduled for a skin graft on Thursday morning. This will cover the third degree burn area on my left side. Every day for over a week now, I have been going to physical therapy in the morning. There, my bandages are removed, and I sit in the whirlpool for 20 or 30 minutes so my wounds, especially the ones on my back, are cleaned. Then they scrape off as much dead skin as possible, and put fresh ointment and bandages on. I also get new bandages and ointment every evening. The wounds on my hands have almost completely healed. After my skin graft, I will be in the hospital for another 7 to 10 days. I will not be able to go to work immediately after that. If the federal government shuts down, I won't have to worry about that. I have received many letters, cards, and gifts. A lot of Land Rover owners have sent me pictures of their vehicles. I also have two matchbox Land Rovers, and a bumper sticker that says "I'd rather be driving my Land Rover" This is taped to my bed. My friends and relatives have turned my room into a confectioner's shop, with all the cakes and cookies. I receive regular visits from those who can, so I am enjoying this as much as one can possibly enjoy the hospital. I just want to thank you all for your support, your reading material, and your prayers. Kelly has stopped wondering why I have so many friends on the Land Rover lists - she now sees it is because you all are great people. James From Treit Le 7 95 Nov 1917 Date: 7 Nov 95 17:57:01 From: Treit Le Subject: Re: Picking up new RR >I take it yours is a Classic? Yep, rationalized that I didn't like the looks of the 4.0SE, too big for my parking space and so forth and so on.....Hopefully, the looks and my disposable income will grow on me by the time my lease is up. The Classic unfortunately is a slug compared to even a 6 cylinder unamed American 4wd vehicle. I believe that the 4.6 resolves that issue. >Just curious, does anyone on the list have experience with the Range Rover's >air suspension in the wild? I mean, can/does it break down, and if so are >you totally buggered (to use a British expression)? One of those Road & Driver or Car and Track type magazines did a short take on the 4.6HSE where they said that they blew the air-suspension on one wheel while off-road, and said that LR was very interested in getting it back to the shop for inspection as they claimed that it could never have happened. I personally have (ab)used mine by playing with it at stop lights to the point where it refused to function until the compressor could cool down. This of course is a self-preservation feature. >Also, does the Disco feature a self-leveling system? I just looked at the '96 Disco brochure (gotta see it, it's as thick as a magazine except legal sized) under suspension. They said coil springs,hydraulic dampers, sway bars, radius arms, panhard rods, trailing links, central A-frame, but nothing about self-leveling. Noticed 2 new Discos in my company parking lot today. Flurries predicted for tomorrow. From LANROVEFN@aol.com Tue Nov 7 20:24:11 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:24:11 -0500 From: LANROVEFN@aol.com Subject: Duck in the steering wheel My 94 Disco has a duck in its steering wheel too. Bit annoying but it goes away when the cabin temp heats up. A few other items of note. Got lucky when I found old model kits of Land Rovers. Bought em all. One was a sIII from Monogram, a pink panther sIIa from Tamiya, a Camel Trophy 2 door Range Rover from Esci and a 109 also from Esci. All previous models are believed to be discontinued. Revell of Germany just released a beautiful Range Rover in 1/24 scale. $$$ though, about $45. I also found a Tamiya Rover 7 ambulance. Looks like a busy winter. Paul Miller Land Rover of NJ just had their"wheels" event last weekend. Fred Monsees Camel Trophy 1990? took us through the forest trails of Milford PA. Great day for" Rovin' with the autumn leaves in their prime. We had 40 or so cars with one SII from Basking Ridge NJ. I met a few old friends from the Downeast Rally at the event too. The "I knew it would happen" award goes to Paul Miller for taking a RR 4.6 off road and getting a flat tire on one of those ridiculous 18" tires. Thanks to Tony in a white 94 Disco for bringing a wooden board to mount the tire jack on. Cheers, Mike Schmidt 94 Disco 74 sIII ( in 1/24 scale) From "John Y. Liu" Tue Nov 07 18:43:12 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 18:43:12 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Hub nut socket? At 10:47 AM 11/7/95 -0700, you wrote: >As long as I'm going to tear apart my brakes, I'm going to fix my leaky hubs >as well. >Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket? I assume by hub nuts you mean the two large-diameter nuts that hold the hub on the stub axle. The hub nuts are big and no standard socket will fit them. However, they should not be wrenched down on very tightly, since doing so will squeeze the bearings in their races (at least this is how it appears from tearing mine down; if someone has contrary info, please speak up.) Instead, they should be just snug. They are kept secure by robust locking washers. So, hopefully, you'll be able to get them off with some skinny-nosed channel lock pliers and a little ingenuity and cussing. If the nuts are on really tight, you can always use a chisel/screwdriver and hammer and loosen them that way (you know, applying chisel to edge and knocking counterclockwise.) Yes the nuts will be ugly afterwards, but you can buy brand new pretty nuts for a couple bucks and save $20 off the socket. From Tim McDaniel Tue Nov 7 22:21:30 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:21:30 -0500 From: Tim McDaniel Subject: Hub nut socket My only comment on the hub nut socket question pertains to past vehicles that I have owned (starts with "Toy"). I found the investment in the socket to be well worth the money since you cannot predict what the circumstances will be like when you doing the work. For me, I'm thinking mainly about how cold it will be at the time the work is being done and the amount of frustration that will be avoided by using other methods. Unless it breaks it's an investment in the vehicle like any other long term part...Just my two cents. Tim +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tim McDaniel (508) 937-3700 ext. 725 | | Adra Systems, Inc. (508) 453-2462 (FAX) | | 2 Executive Drive | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 mcdaniel@adra.com | | USA | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Tue Nov 7 19:32:44 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:32:44 -0800 From: jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Subject: Re: Welcome to California, Dude! ;-) John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 11:55 07.11.95 -0700, Rob Bailey wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Oh, god... I didn't miss another referendum, did I? >Rob Cheers! John From Brian Neill Tiedemann Wed Nov 8 14:49:35 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:49:35 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: many.. 'Evnin' all, Exams, I hate exams!! Just offered a gold pass to the F1 GP in Adelaide this w.e. for free, and ticket to the ball after the race (with drivers).... leaving Thursday, back late Monday. Guess what? Exam Friday, and exam Monday ! :(((( (sob) Now, 1. Jim mentioned something about LR not branching out into pianos/elec. guitars, BUT in a Websearch for Land Rover, I turned up an article on the LR bike- yep that is bicycle! Shown at a motor show in Germany recently... can't recall too many details, but had "suspension" and looked kinda low slung. I'll check the address up next time at uni. 2. There has been some discussion of the "distance piece" which the hub seal rides on and seals (leaks) against. Now somewhere at Solihull, there was a communication problem, because this piece appears in RR (early at least, later don't know) service manuals. The description of removal method includes the old cold chisel and mallet- great, BUT RR stub axles are actually machined to the shape of one having a separate distance piece, only from one piece of steel- that is, it looks as if there is a separate distance piece, but there is _not_ and any attempt to remove it by cold chiseling is simply butchering a stub axle.... to recondition RR stub axle sealing surface, a thin sleeve is added over the damaged seal surface. In all LR/RR products, check that the proceedure in the manual actually fits with the bits in your hand BEFORE any possibly damaging work is done. (And offer sacrifice to Murphy and Joe wherever possible) (maybe mother-in-law?) ;) Alan mentions brackets for mounting his old steering damper to the front steering rod: Is this the same setup as is seen on LR Defenders? Was that the source of the brackets? Any reason not to use the Defender setup only, and do away with the (vulnerable) RR position beneath the diff? I have been considering doing this, and probably will try it soon- I have yet to make up some kind of chasis bracket for the other end of the damper. I would like to use the drag link protector setup of a Defender, but the steering damper gets in the way, so using the whole Defender system seems logical- Damper then acts on the front tie rod- between steering box and LH front wheel (Australia). All this WWW political crap is giving me a headache- great to see the digest at double its normal size, but couldn't it be for the sake of more technical/rover-ical/trip-ical/friend-ical -even- triv-ial posts, not "petty" bickering over the Web. BTW for anyone not offended by the above paragraph: My dad's better than your dad!! ;) Lastly, from what I have seen, Disco steel (star pattern) wheels do fit directly onto a RR with no mods, although the wheel offset may be different - don't know. Defender wheels should fit straight onto a series LR too, in fact any of the 5 stud LR wheels with a big hole in the middle - big enough to clear the drive flange, should fit any of the LR/RR/Disco vehicles, though this does not take the offset differences into account. Offset is the distance from the inside or outside of the rim where the wheel stud flange rides- that is, how far into the rim the end of the axle will protrude, or how far from the end of the axle the outside of the rim will protrude. This affects the overall wheel track, and does vary from one vehicle to another. RR wheels differ because they do not actually have the drive flange poking through them. Instead they have a small hole in the centre, but otherwise cover the drive flange. The "spoke" raised sections of the RR rim's star pattern fit over the cast reliefs of a 5 bolt drive flange which seems to be unique to the coil sprung vehicles. This means that if you want to fit them to a series LR, the hub and drive flange, or middle section of the rim would have to be modified. Seeya, Brian. 77 RR From Drrover@aol.com Tue Nov 7 23:17:46 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:17:46 -0500 From: Drrover@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest My new discovery has an idle problem. Please advice me about the rough idle .THANKS From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall B. Thomas) Tue Nov 7 23:17:24 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:17:24 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall B. Thomas) Subject: Re: Hub nut socket? >As long as I'm going to tear apart my brakes, I'm going to fix my leaky hubs >as well. >Question: Do I really need the $25 hub nut socket? >Can I make do with another socket or is this some wierd size? You don't *really* need the socket. I do it the right way now with the socket and a dial gauge indicator to properly set the end float on the wheel bearings. However, before I was so fortunate, I would wing it with a large set of channel locks and, yes, a cold chisel too, (but only to get them off). Setting the end float up without a dial gauge is easy. If you tighten the first nut to the point where you can just notice that there is no wiggle in the hub, (Do this with the wheel and tire mounted, it's easier to feel) then back off one flat of the nut. After you drive the car for a while, if you can feel wiggle, then you've got it too loose. If you drive 30 miles or so and you put your hand on the hub drive flange and almost burn yourself, then it's too tight. Even with the socket you would never need to use a drive handle to tighten the nut. Hand tightening with the socket alone will get you there. Make sure you spread Hylomar (Loctite 819) around the outside of the inner hub seal before installing it. This will eliminate any seepage of any kind. My backing plates are now completely stain free. P.S. While you've got the hub off you should consider properly deshimming the top bearing of the swivel ball. If you haven't done this and your car is high mileage, you'd be surprised how much this improves handling. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Nov 8 16:06:00 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:06:00 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: many.. Brian informs us... > Just offered a gold pass to the F1 GP in Adelaide this w.e. for free And verily I say good job too.... My first opportunity to get to a GP without having to fly 3000Km to get there and guess where I'm going saturday... Good old Melbourne. Oh well at least i didnt shell out $450 for a gold pass only to have to give it away. > My dad's better than your dad!! Na na na na na. My Landrover's bigger than yours.... > Lastly, from what I have seen, Disco steel (star pattern) wheels do fit > directly onto a RR with no mods, although the wheel offset may be > different - don't know. Ok some tech stuff first Offset is the distance between the centre line of the rim and the mounting flange face. in set/outset is the distance from the rim inside/outside edge to the flange face. post late 68 LWB landrovers (5.5 x 16),110's and defender110's (5.5 x 16) rangie steels (6.0 x 16) and disco steels (7.0 x 16) *all* have 33mm positive offset (1 5/16"). ie the flange is 33mm away from the centre line and towards the outside of the rim. so the rim is offset 33mm inwards. (defender 130 are 6.5 x 16 with 20.?mm offset) so the offset is the same but inset differs because the width of the rim differs. so the 5.5 x 16 109, 110 etc has something like 120mm or about 4 3/4 " inset the rangie 6.0 x 16 steel about 125 mm or 5" the disco 7.0 x 16 has about 140mm or 5 1/2" inset as data point the early (pre-late 68) 109 rims and 88" 5.5 option rims were 1 13/16 offset (46mm) and had about 135mm ~5 1/4 inset. these do fit the later 109's as thats whats on my stage 1, but they reduce your turning circle a bit. :-( so there is a lot of cross compatability if you exclude the "oddball" rangie 5 spoke rim. just todays useless information.... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From GJevne@aol.com Wed Nov 8 00:58:26 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:58:26 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: rro rro From GJevne@aol.com Wed Nov 8 00:59:48 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:59:48 -0500 From: GJevne@aol.com Subject: eu-lro eu-lro From beesley@primenet.com (Brad Beesley) Tue Nov 7 23:04:32 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:04:32 -0700 (MST) From: beesley@primenet.com (Brad Beesley) Subject: 101 FC Questions Friends I have some questions regarding the 101 Foward Control hardtop van or the ambulance. I am planning a trek called "50 states in 50 weeks". It is a writing excurstion and plan to drive to some of the most remote regions of the US. I am at the point of choosing a vehicle, to be converted to a camper/office. The 101 FC looks interesting, and I have a couple of questions. First, for those of you who say that a 101 can't be legally imported...I understand that there are some new laws that will be in effect in '96 that may allow this vehicle in, and I have a friend of a friend who was a big-wig at the DMV....so, there may be a chance...will keep you posted. 101 Questions: 1) does anyone have the cargo area dimensions of the radio or the ambulance 2) is the cockpit area open to the cargo area, ie: is it a walk-through 3) reliability..I could be stuck in Mayberry with Gomer at the station 4) how will she function in severe weather -20 to 110 5) what is in the space over the cab on the ambulance, can I sleep there Forest Gump-ville, Here I come! thanks Brad Beesley 310-374-2498 ___________________________________________________________________ beesley@primenet.com Seven Thorns of the Crown http://www.primenet.com/~beesley/ ___________________________________________________________________ From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Wed Nov 08 09:16:35 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 09:16:35 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Subject: Info on LandRover Magazines John and Dixon thanks for this helpfull information. If one of you is interested in a Dutch 4x4 magazine( just for the pics I guess ?;-) ), let me know and I'll send you one of the duplicates I have. Thanks again! LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Dicovery, ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Wed Nov 08 09:42:04 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 09:42:04 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL Subject: Anti FAQ On advice of Dixon I just read the FAQ and the Anti FAQ and had some hilarious laughs 8-D, especially on number 19. So if you're a slow starter today and haven't read the FAQ on the US RoverWeb yet, this might help you for today. P.S. Be aware not holding any hot liquids while reading this Anti FAQ!! LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Dicovery, ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From aminner@ix.netcom.com (Allen Minner) Wed Nov 8 01:18:51 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:18:51 -0800 From: aminner@ix.netcom.com (Allen Minner) Subject: Re: Planning a purchase I have been thinking about getting an 87-90 Range Rover priced around $ 18k. Sounds like they need bushings at 80k miles, any other surprises, bad years? Whats real world gas milage like? How about average repair cost per 10k miles? I plan to put 23k miles a year on it. Am I crazy? Thanks for any help. From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Nov 08 04:56:09 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 04:56:09 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: RoverWeb, LROA, OVLR, et al. Bye Dixon speaks of club insurance... > USA clubs should seriously consider banding together with other > British marque clubs and doing the same (though probably on a As far as I know, the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) and the Vintage Triumph Register (VTR) have insurance policies which can cover local car club events. If I remember correctly, the club has to be a chapter of the national organization and some number of members of the club must also have membership in the national organization. A couple of differant car clubs I have been a member of over the years have joined national organizations for this very reason. Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Nov 08 04:55:46 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 04:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Movies. Russ W. wants to know..... > Panhard?????? Panhead, I know. Panhard....Hmmm Tell us a story about the > mystical Panhard. / Its French. Need I say more?? OK,OK... Front wheel drive, ugly as home made sin. Air cooled engine. Elliptical shaped pistons... Actually pretty nice cars, in a French sort of way... Cheers Mike From Richard Jones Wed Nov 8 10:08:25 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:08:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Picking up new RR Matt Snyder writes: > The Classic unfortunately is > a slug compared to even a 6 cylinder unamed American 4wd vehicle. I believe > that the 4.6 resolves that issue. The Classic always feels more sluggish than it really is (its surprising what you can leave dehind without really trying). Also the Classic runs better once it is run in (may take 7,000-10,000 miles or more). Yes the 4.6 does resolve this issue but it costs! Single figure fuel consumption, unless you can drive it with a very light right foot (and I havn't met anyone yet who can :-)) __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From Hldixon@aol.com Wed Nov 8 06:06:18 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:06:18 -0500 From: Hldixon@aol.com Subject: DealerNet I was watching PC TV the other night and they were previewing a page on the Web. It was called DealerNet. I noticed the Land Rover logo on the screen and just had to go check it out. DealerNet is your basic how to choose a new vehicle, special interest vehicle, boats & rv's, also gives you dealers in your area. ( couldn't find a participating one for Land Rovers. Hey Jim Pappas, why wasn't Metro West listed??) Has anyone else checked this out? Happy Rovering Heather From jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Wed Nov 8 05:26:30 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 05:26:30 -0800 From: jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) Subject: Re: eu-lro Hey! Who are you callin' a eu-lro!? Why I oughta... ;-) John At 00:59 08.11.95 -0500, GJevne@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >eu-lro [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >eu-lro Cheers! John From Danny Phillips Wed Nov 8 13:24:01 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 13:24:01 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: various. dear all, first does anyone know how i subscribe to the uk and european lists i think they exist. second the only time i had a noise in my disco with steering was a low fluid res so for the sake of a few quid it might be worth checking. i will flash my lights at other drivers from now on, as i am shamed, but its too cold here in the uk to have the windows open and wave. i now have 75,000 miles on my disco, and the only things she has needed outside of servicing are a new battery (tdi and 5 yrs old not bad on a deisal) and a rear door lock that we broke by letting it swing shut with the camber of our road. one thing though some of the vinyl trim is starting to lift, anyone know why? just usual uk weather. not garaged. nice green mark on the rear bumper and big dent in a lamppost down the road, teach me and the wife to rush into parking. lastly a note to tim macdaniel, is chelmsford in the US more interesting than the one in the uk? the uk one was once voted 3rd most boring city in the country, just after coventry and grantham.town From Brian Neill Tiedemann Thu Nov 9 01:23:10 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:23:10 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: Disco duning Kirk, Pleease, please lock your diff when you get up in the morning and leave it locked as long as you will be driving on sand or loose surfaces.... A disco is NOT the same as a TLC in 4WD mode unless the centre diff is locked. ("same" does not refer to anything but drive mode) By driving with the diff unlocked on hilly, loose surfaces such as sand, it is almost unavoidable that one axle will load up more than the other, and that poor little tiny centre diff will spin for all it's worth trying to give more power to the axle whose wheels slip first. Two things can then happen: forward progress will slow or stop, possibly leading to another perhaps more aggressive try, and/or the gears and shafts in the centre diff assembly may overheat or bind or worse- break. This diff is included ONLY to allow the vehicle to be a "full time 4WD". That is, it is meant to allow a way for the front wheels of the vehicle to travel further than the rears in a turning situation, exactly as the front or rear diff will allow the outside wheel to travel further as it follows a larger turn radius than the inner one. This is necessary only when there is little or no "give" elsewhere in the system ie. the wheels are in contact with a gripping surface. As soon as slippage is introduced into the system, even if only to one wheel, all the vehicle's power will be transmitted to that wheel through the centre diff and then the front or rear diff. The front and rear diffs are relatively robust by comparison to the centre one, but the centre one is provided with its own protection: the diff lock. Lock it up whenever the road surface is slippery enough that wheelspin might be encountered- the only side effect is better traction. With the centre diff locked, the way in which the four wheels will be driven is equivalent to the TLC in 4WD. Unlocked it may as well be only 2WD in slippery conditions, and will soon damage itself in a costly way if it is unlocked and the car is allowed to wheelspin. As soon as hard, grippy surfaces are encountered, unlock the diff, as here is where it may have a detrimental effect by placing the drivetrain under increased stress, as the axles will otherwise be given equal drive to cover unequal distances... the usual symptoms will be similar to leaving the transmission handbrake slightly on, a little shuddery and clunky, but mostly when turning at low speeds. Probably the only damage in the short term will be uneven tyre wear, but it is inviting trouble to leave the extra stresses on unnecessarily. I would advise you to lock the diff whenever you are off sealed roads, and unlock it otherwise. Once or twice a month, you should lock and unlock it a few times also, to keep the mechanisim free and lubricated. this can be done stopped, or whilst travelling in a straight line at any speed. There is no functional difference between having the centre diff locked in low or high range, and the above applies equally for both. Finally, the diff lock should never be engaged whilst actually spinning one or more wheels, or preferably not even whilst turning a corner. Using the diff lock in the right situations, and activating it at the right times will allow your vehicle to perform as well as it can in 4WD and minimise wear and tear on the whole drivetrain. Enjoy your Disco! cheers, Brian. 77 RR P.S. I've noticed that if I type too fast I end up with $WD instead of 4WD.... mmmm SPOOKY eh Dr. Freud? Mine loves to eat $! ;) From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Wed Nov 08 10:13:03 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 10:13:03 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Brake Drum Paint? Does anyone know if the brake drums, hubs, backing plate, etc were originally painted on IIa's? If yes, what color? Thanks, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW aka "Algernon" From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 08 95 Nov EST 1910 Date: 08 Nov 95 10:22:20 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco duning >> P.S. I've noticed that if I type too fast I end up with $WD instead of 4WD.... mmmm SPOOKY eh Dr. Freud? Mine loves to eat $! ;) << I often find myself typing $x$ which unfortunately seems more correct at times. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| | | ### | | 1972 SerIII 88 | | ####### | | 1990 RangeRover |_____|_#######_|_____| [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 08-Nov-1995 From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Wed Nov 08 11:29:22 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 11:29:22 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Series Dash Panels ("Bulkheads") All, Am considering how best to proceed with this major piece of my drivable project. Situation is this: 1960 Ser II original dash panel is in place, showing rot in the usual spots. Have replacement LH door post (from A-B) for it. Can get footwell pieces for it or otherwise repair that area. Also have IIA dash panel available (free), in similar condition. Want to do a once-and-forever job on the panel, assuming removal is required for the sandblasting and high-tech repaint. Questions are -- Are there differences between the Ser II and Ser IIA dash panels??? This will decide whether I remove, restore, and reinstall the original, or restore the spare and swap it in. Will I likely run into alignment/fit problems if the repairs are carried out on a removed dash panel? I intend to have the welding done by a fellow recommended on this list, who I have since visited at his shop. Also, is there anyone in Baltimore/DC area that can be trusted to do a bulkhead remove/reinstall and do it right? For less than a king's ransome? Unfortunately, doing it at home is not diplomatically viable. Have a call in to A-B since they advertised bulkheads for II, IIA, III a while back. Am considering buying one that's already been de-rotted, if available, and going straight to blast/repaint. Waiting for the callback... Thanks in advance for your collective experience, Hank From Brian Neill Tiedemann Thu Nov 9 02:28:02 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:28:02 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: nice conversion if... A friend of mine has an interesting lump sitting in his garage: It is a GM 6.2 litre diesel V8, and can also be found I believe in a 6.5 litre form. It will soon sit in his Defender tray as a replacement for the current 400 Chev.... I think he wants to pull Rome from Italy or somesuch, but I watch with interest. The Defender currently has a Turbo400 automatic behind it, but the guy is considering a Turbo700 or 5 speed truck box... I'll keep you posted, anyone else seen one of these installed? Supposed to be quite economical and super torquey, but not too dieselish in sound/smoothness. Looks HEAVY. seeya BT 77 RR. From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Wed Nov 8 07:58:32 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:58:32 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: Re: various. On Nov 8, 1:24pm, Danny Phillips wrote: > Subject: various. > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net snip > i will flash my lights at other drivers from now on, as i am shamed, but > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net its too cold here in the uk to have the windows open and wave. Hey, hey. Here in the colonies we found the solution to this as we also have a bit of the chill too: we *wash* our windows when dirty so as to wave to strangers with the windows up }{;>) > i now have 75,000 miles on my disco, and the only things she has needed > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net outside > of servicing are a new battery (tdi and 5 yrs old not bad on a deisal) and a > rear door lock that we broke by letting it swing shut with the camber of our > road. > one thing though some of the vinyl trim is starting to lift, anyone know [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > why? just usual uk weather. not garaged. > nice green mark on the rear bumper and big dent in a lamppost down the road, > teach me and the wife to rush into parking. > lastly a note to tim macdaniel, is chelmsford in the US more interesting > why? just usual uk weather. not garaged. than > the one in the uk? the uk one was once voted 3rd most boring city in the > country, just after coventry and grantham.town >-- End of excerpt from Danny Phillips I get the idea that LR culls the defectives out and sends them to the US. -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From "Mark Talbot" Wed Nov 8 16:07:58 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:07:58 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Dealing with DOT Customs and the dreaded EPA All, has anyone dealt successfully with the DOT, EPA and CUSTOMS regarding vehicle entry into the USA. I'm talking about parts and also pre-67 Land Rovers. Can anyone who has moved stuff over here contact me so I can pick your brains. Looking to get Land Rovers in. Mark From Mike Rooth Wed Nov 8 16:26:17 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:26:17 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Brake Drum Paint? > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > tim harincar > harincar@mooregs.com > '66 IIa 88 SW aka "Algernon" There are traces of black on mine.... Mike Rooth From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Wed Nov 8 08:26:01 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:26:01 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: DealerNet and another resource Heather Dixon asks: >I was watching PC TV the other night and they were previewing a page on the >Web. It was called DealerNet. >Has anyone else checked this out? Yes; actually, DealerNet played some part in my decision to buy a Discovery, not that I needed much convincing. In fact, I'd seen an article on the Camel Trophy the year before the Discovery appeared in the US. I decided on the spot that if it were ever imported I'd have to take a serious look. There's an even better source of information for those considering buying a Land Rover product--the Edmund's Web site at http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds/. Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Nov 08 11:43:29 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 11:43:29 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Importing 101FC Greetings There was a chap at the Mid-Atlantic Rally that had one. He brought it over without the engine. He then added a winch, Rover V8, (which is standard I believe) and a top for the back section. The vehicle was purchased from PRB services in the UK. PRB advertises in LROI every month. The fellows name was Jared Silbersher, if anyone knows how to get a hold of him then maybe you can enlist his help. Cheers David Bobeck Washington DC 72 SeriesIII SWB "Green Car" dbobeck@ushmm.org From "Grimes, Sean" Wed 08 Nov CST 1911 Date: Wed Nov 08 11:14 CST 1995 From: "Grimes, Sean" Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe From "Grimes, Sean" Wed 08 Nov CST 1911 Date: Wed Nov 08 11:18 CST 1995 From: "Grimes, Sean" Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe lro-digest Sean Grimes From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Nov 8 09:25:43 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 09:25:43 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Hub nut socket? In message <199511080250.VAA28015@butler.uk.stratus.com> "John Y. Liu" writes: ; > I assume by hub nuts you mean the two large-diameter nuts that hold the hub > on the stub axle. ; > Instead, they should be just snug. I would suggest following the work shop manual on this. They are not tightened down snug. There is a definite amount of freeplay that should be there. Set the freeplay with the first nut jam the second one down on the first to keep it tight, then remeasure the freeplay. ; > So, hopefully, you'll be able to get them off with some > skinny-nosed channel lock pliers and a little ingenuity and cussing. ; The outer ones are normally on too tight for channel locks. ; ; > If the nuts are on really tight, you can always use a chisel/screwdriver and > hammer ; I've seen hub nuts with some big gouges from chisels. If you go to reuse the nut you need to file the sides flat again and figure out how to get the outer nut tight when you put it back on. ; If you own a series car for a long time, you will replace the seals periodically. I consider the hub socket to be a basic part of my Land Rover tool set. You end up paying more for hub seals, grease & gaskets than you do for a socket, so why not get the tools to do the job correctly so you won't have to do it as often. ; Think of it like using a set of wrenches instead of a crescent wrench on everything. ; TeriAnn From Tim McDaniel Wed Nov 8 12:33:43 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:33:43 -0500 From: Tim McDaniel Subject: Re: Series Dash Panels ("Bulkheads") At 11:29 AM 11/8/95 EST, you wrote: >....... Will I likely run into alignment/fit >problems if the repairs are carried out on a removed dash [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >right? For less than a king's ransome? Unfortunately, >doing it at home is not diplomatically viable. I spoke to Bruce McEnaney at DAP (Springfield VT) about bulkheads/ doorpost/footwell repair yesterday. I will be doing similar repairs to my Series III sometime kindof-sortof soon. His cautions were to not replace any more of the doorpost than necessary and to be extremely careful about all other work. The main problem that he has seen people end up with were alignment problems. He was referring to alignment of the door(s) and alignment of the body to the chassis. If only the bottom of the doorpost is shot and you can replace just that section, then the upper hinge holes are already aligned. He said for his shop to do complete doorposts and footwells to two sides would run about $1000 total and that he likes to do it over a 3 day period. Way too much for me, so I'll be tackling it myself. He felt that any competent shop should be able to handle the job as long as they don't rush it. He also has remanufactured bulkheads in stock. He gets $1200 for one plus exchange. I think they remanufacture them at their shop, Bruce McEnaney 802-885-6660. Tim From Dixon Kenner Wed Nov 8 12:36:02 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:36:02 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Importing 101FC On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Bobeck, David R. wrote: > There was a chap at the Mid-Atlantic Rally that > had one. He brought it over without the engine. He > then added a winch, Rover V8, (which is standard I > believe) and a top for the back section. This 101 was purchased in more parts than this. It was not a vehicle that was dissassembled, just to get it into the USA for reassembly. He had to pick up a lot more pieces that were missing and bring it all over and put back together. The 101 was very much incomplete and took more than a year to get the remaining pieces & reassemble. From William Terry Wed Nov 8 13:50:10 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:50:10 -0500 (EST) From: William Terry Subject: Trying to reach MARK PERRY Sorry for the spam, but the address on his last post isn't working for me. Mark, Please, email me and I'll try using a respond. I want to discuss something, but don't want to take the bandwidth on lro. TIA, Bill ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From 08 95 Nov EST 1914 Date: 08 Nov 95 14:19:06 EST From: Subject: land rovers on the dunes ---------------------------------- Forwarded ---------------------------------- From "Soren Vels Christensen" Wed Nov 8 19:51:23 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:51:23 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: RE: 101 FC Questions In message Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:04:32 -0700 (MST), beesley@primenet.com (Brad Beesley) writes... ...about a 50 state expedition. No answers (don't know the ambulance/radion conversion) but one question: You are not going to call it Rosinante are you? rgds sv/aurens From "Soren Vels Christensen" Wed Nov 8 19:53:07 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:53:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: RE: 101 FC Questions In message Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:04:32 -0700 (MST), beesley@primenet.com (Brad Beesley) writes... ...about a 50 state expedition. No answers (don't know the ambulance/radion conversion) but one question: You are not going to call it Rosinante are you? rgds sv/aurens From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Wed Nov 08 14:35:51 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 14:35:51 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Re: Hub Nut Socket? Thanks for all the replies regarding this tool. Michael Slade has generously agreed to ship me his for this project, since he won't be using it. BTW, consensus seems to be that the tool is worth having and is better than alternate methods, although channellock's are the first runner-up. Once again, the power of the net saves me time and money! [OTOH, it was the power of the net that got me a Rover in the first place, which has definatly *cost* me time and money :-) ] tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW aka "Algernon" From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Wed Nov 8 11:51:51 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 11:51:51 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: Land Rover Bicycle (!) FYI, everyone, here's the URL for a description of that Land Rover bicycle. According to the Web search site's abstract, the bike is built under license from LR. I haven't been able to connect to the site yet, but someone in the UK might have better luck: http://137.205.192.13/~esrgq/moulton/landrapb.html Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office 1995 beluga black Discovery From Wes Newman Wed Nov 8 12:14:43 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:14:43 AST From: Wes Newman Subject: Brake Problems I have a 1967 109" Rover with brake problems. I have tried to bleed them by the book (parked on an uphill) and even replaced the master cylinder but still having problems. Does anyone know of other tricks to bleed the brakes? ____________________________________________________________ Personal Internet address: newmanpp@corcom.com IBM Internet address: wdnewman@vnet.ibm.com IBM Alaska Home Page: http://www.corcom.com/wnewman/ibmakhom.html ____________________________________________________________ From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Nov 08 16:18:40 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 16:18:40 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: LRO's in Boston. I know there's lots of you out there. In fact last time i was there I saw an actual Land-Rover so that proves it. I'll be in Beantown this Friday, Saturday and Sunday, to visit my SO, who hasn't seen the "Green Car" yet. Anybody want to get together for some "trail-riding"? I don't know what's up there but I suspect I prob'ly don't have to go to far from the city to find some nice trails. If nobody wants to hang out then at least clue me in to some good spots. Please. Thanks Dave "Been All Over..."Bobeck 72 SERIII swb "Green Car" dbobeck@ushmm.org ps- Brian Bonner are you out there? From "Sean McInerney" 8 1995 Nov -0500 1917 Date: 8 Nov 1995 17:21:10 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: More dynamo current? More dynamo current? Okay gang- Now that I have finished replacing every rubber seal in the body of the beast, I am officially on to other projects. First off will be my installation of a personally refurbished Mk. IV Kodiak. Presently heating is provided by warm engine compartment air flowing through the holes where the Smiths foot-soaker once was. But since this will all happily be done quite soon, I am moving on to "what-ifs" to devote my time and money to. My Rover is a 1963 and remains positively earthed, chugging along with its C-40 generator. Alas....one side of me wants more power for the likes of PIAA "landing lights" while I also wish to remain somewhat authentically simple..read: not wishing to give up the durability of a generator for the power and rewiring tasks of an alternator. I really do not want anything so "high-tech" as a diode in my landie :-). QUESTION: (1)Does the larger C-42 generator pump out an appreciably greater current flow when compared to a C-40 (22amps)?...compared to an alternator? (2)Is the C-42 and its associated control box an, essentially, a bolt-in swap?....If I can find one for a reasonable price. Waiting to be educated, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" HT...world's greatest sources of random questions From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Nov 08 16:37:54 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 16:37:54 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Squirrels in my heater Now I know why the Series III heater fan is referred to as a "Squirrel Cage". When you turn it on it sounds like there's a squirrel inside! Neat. Seriously (really, stop laughin' at me) whenever I first turn the heater on it sounds like the bearings are self-destructing, then once it gets going it quiets down. I'd like to at least know what this is before it actually gets cold. Anybody had this happen? No? You will now! "List syndrome" strikes again! Dave Bobeck 72 SeriesIII "Habitrail" From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Nov 8 16:40:53 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:40:53 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: v8 cams (again) and vac. advance with CD's Hi all, Any news on the 3.5 v8 aftermarket (e.g. Crane) cam vs. stock? I can't believe there's not a Rangie around that has worn its original cam and went for a better bumpstick... Also, I heard that RN ran an article in the newsletter ?? back comparing the OEM vs aftermarket. Has anyone got a copy of that? And, moving on to the distributor: With the dual CD's, what's the point?? Isn't it supposed to be constant vac.? So it's always watever the engine vac. is, regardless of the throttle position? I hooked up a vac. gauge to mine: as soon as it's at all open, the vac. stays steady at 20" or so. So why bother? BTW, is this normal, or am I hooked up to a wrong port :0 ? Jan From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Nov 8 16:55:09 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:55:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Re: Virgin airlines etc. To follow up on the Virgin story, indeed the pres. did have a major accident in a RR in which his entire family survived. The interesting thing was, because of the accident he placed an order for 600 RRs!!! Those were to be built over 3 years and each one replaced appx. every 3 months - unbelievable!!! Answer to yesterday's trivia - the LR Discovery is aka the Honda Crossroads in Japan. Ouch! Today's trivia is extra simple - how can one differentiate a 1988 RR 4 door from a later model 1990? Very subtle... think about the exterior differences between a late IIA and a series III (besides the grill!)... Frank Twarog Burlington, VT From Gary Mitchelson Wed Nov 08 18:01:07 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 18:01:07 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Disco arriving any day: Cold Feet -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > And, NO-ONE ever posts: "Well, I've put on 10K miles and it's never > been in the shop except for scheduled maintainence." Can someone do [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > reliability that almost led to Jaguar going under. > So, you Disco lurkers, here's your chance: Tell me how reliable your vehicle > has been. 9000 miles on a 95 and I had it in once for leaking PS fluid which ended up being a loose clamp. -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From "Walter C. Swain" Wed Nov 8 15:40:17 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:40:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Virgin airlines etc. On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Francis J. Twarog wrote: > Today's trivia is extra simple - how can one differentiate a 1988 RR 4 > door from a later model 1990? Very subtle... think about the exterior > differences between a late IIA and a series III (besides the grill!)... I think I noticed this one when comparing my 88 RR to one on the local Jag used -oops- pre-owned lot. The rear wiper on mine is mounted at the top of the window, and the newer one was mounted at the bottom. Walt Swain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW From LTC Larry Smith Wed Nov 8 13:12:27 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 13:12:27 EST (1812Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Hub Wrench To all, Have been following the threads on the various methods for removal/refixing of the nuts used to hold the wheel hubs in place. As someone stated (sorry, I deleted your message before I remembered to get your name), you don't (shouldn't) need a lot of force to remove and refit the nuts. I went to the local NAPA store and they ordered a 2 1/16inch hub service/wheel bearing wrench (looks like an oversized sheetmetal sparkplug wrench). Cost was about $12.00. No, its not a perfect fit, esp. with the rounded corners on the nuts, but it works. Also caught the posting on the RR having the distance piece/seal race machined as a part of the axle. Not sure where I read it, but some of the Series vehicles also had the race machined the same way. I agree, you need to read the manual. BTW, have been copying the pages and laminating with clear contact paper. Learned the hard way in the Army. In the middle of the job, screw up the page, and can't get any more manuals from the supply system. Yes, greasy pages are a badge of honor and a cheap page marker, but I ain't smart enough to get it put back together without the book. Guess that's why I'm in the Army (;^> Best to all, Larry From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Nov 9 11:12:21 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:12:21 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: vac advance. Jan comments: > I hooked up a vac. gauge to mine: as soon as it's at all open, the vac. stays > steady at 20" or so. So why bother? > BTW, is this normal, or am I hooked up to a wrong port :0 ? Sounds funny. the vac advance on mine certainly modulates with throttle opening. mind you the "normal" state seems to be advanced, but it drops off at idle and wide openings. As for the wrong port, is there more than one??? there is only one port on my LH carb and none on the right... cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Nov 08 18:13:56 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 18:13:56 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Brake Problems >I have a 1967 109" Rover with brake problems. I have tried to bleed them by >the book (parked on an uphill) and even replaced the master cylinder but still >having problems. Does anyone know of other tricks to bleed the brakes? Wes, You're NOT supposed to raise the front of a 109. It needs to be dead level as the rear cylinder will trap air. ____________________________________________________________ >Personal Internet address: newmanpp@corcom.com >IBM Internet address: wdnewman@vnet.ibm.com >IBM Alaska Home Page: http://www.corcom.com/wnewman/ibmakhom.html >____________________________________________________________ Ahh... I think I have located the only 'mystery' subscriber to the Unimog Network Int'l list (UNi) :) Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From jpappa01@interserv.com Wed Nov 8 19:03:39 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 19:03:39 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. - Today, I fell in love all over again. Needed to pick up my ARB bumper/Warn winch combo from truck depot in Avon, MA. Decided to take F/C as 10-ft. bed would handle anything. Two hours later and couldn't get her started. Plugged in block heater. Used kero heater to warm underside of truck, and put battery charger on full boost. Hmmm. Not even a click of the solenoid! Aha! The solenoid! Crawled underneath and looked. Sure `nuff. Copper strap from cold side of solenoid to starter housing cracked in two!! Vibration finally takes its toll after untold years. Solenoid on order. Time for plan B. Got Big Red fired up! 109 2A w/transplant engine. Frame like Swiss cheese. Steering shot. Holes in floor. Chunks of seat upholstery gone. Springs flat. But the heart and soul of a lion. She was proud to chug up Rte.128 at 65 so that I could deliver a spanking new Disco SE to a happy new owner at Metro West. After, I trundled down to Overnight Trucking to pick up my new toy. Boys at RN outdid themselves. The stuff was completely *crated* and insulated to the nines inside! Outstanding packing job! The lads at the depot helped me uncrate the goodies as the crate wouldn't fit inside Big Red. So, 275 pounds of ballast in the back - we completed the tour back to the house. Not a whimper. Not a strain. Left channel of Alpine stereo still worked. Same tape still in player for past five years. Cranked up the gain. Leslie West grinding the axe- barely audible above the cacophany. I actually burst out laughing! It felt so good to be back! Ah. A true workhorse. Rewards for her loyalty coming in future. I have completely restored frame for her tucked in garage. Will retro NADA 2.6L engine back during reconstruction. Hate to lose that 5.0L though. Damn, it *always* starts and never needs nuthin'. But a NADA 6-cyl tugs at my heart. Loyalty wins out in the end. What a great escape down yesterroad! Now I *really* miss my 88. I must go retrieve her and finish the electrics. A series is a series. A Defender is an awesome vehicle. I love `em all. But a series completes the mind link. Virtual reality with your past. Wow! Scary. - Interesting piece in latest LRO and LRW about a fellow who hit a rock wall head on in his D90, fell 46 feet into a river and had an articulated truck fall on top of him!! He crawled out without a scratch! Truck driver broke both legs. I wouldn't have believed it `cept both magazines ran photo. Unreal! Owner said not one straight panel left except rear door but chassis held and survived the impact, fall, and weight of truck rolling onto the Land Rover! - Latest LRO features BSROA newsletter cover in Clubs section. Thanks, LRO! - No NAS Discovery (or any other that I know of) has any type of active or passive adjustable suspension (pneumatic or Boge strut). - RE: Camel Trophy/ESPN. The piece that we've mostly all seen last couple of weeks was only the *Camel Trophy: The Ultimate Adventure Quest* Sort of a teaser on the event itself. The original complete tape of the event was postponed due to what was thought to be an inferior soundtrack. Back to drawing board to re-lay the audio. The previously booked ESPN slots were filled with the piece that was aired last week. In fact, the proper Camel Trophy event will be aired as follows in 30 and 60-minute segments: 11/15 Camel Trophy Mundo Maya `95: 1500-1600 ESPN-2 11/22 Camel Trophy Mundo Maya `95: 0300-0400 ESPN-2 11/28 Camel Trophy Mundo Maya `95: 0130-0200 ESPN 11/28 Camel Trophy Mundo Maya `95: 1700-1730 ESPN 12/24 Camel Trophy Mundo Maya `95: 1500-1600 ESPN-2 1- Assumption is made that times are local EST. Check local listings to verify 2- The above information has been cleared for customer release by LRNA Corporate Communications. 3- Enjoy! cheerz Jim - don't know *WHICH* side of the steering column to fit the key anymore... `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From SWKW53A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES F MCHUGH) Wed Nov 08 22:04:10 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 22:04:10 EST From: SWKW53A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES F MCHUGH) Subject: Discovery Woes! I have put 16m miles on a 95 Discovery in 6 months. I spent a lot of time on the beach this summer and have spent a fair amount of time in the woods this fall. The squeaking steering column showed up last week and was fixed (at the 15m service stop) yesterday by lubricating the firewall fitting. Apart from a very early and minor problem (engine oil leaking from a gasket when ascending steep inclines), a small leak under the glove compartment in driving rain and a few, easily fixed rattles, I have had no problems. I made a special trip to the dealer to have the oil leak fixed but all other problems were adjusted, under warranty, at regular servicing. The dealer (Land Rover MetroWest in Natick, MA) is excellent and the service staff is knowledgeable, friendly and takes the time to explain to new owners like me features and systems I do not fully understand. I am fully satisfied. This car's off-road capability is far better than anything I have had before and, after 6 months of heavy use, I have no reason to doubt its reliability. Regards, Jim McHugh From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Nov 8 18:59:47 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:59:47 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Disco arriving any day: Cold Feet > And, NO-ONE ever posts: "Well, I've put on 10K miles and it's never > been in the shop except for scheduled maintainence." Can someone do [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)] > reliability that almost led to Jaguar going under. > So, you Disco lurkers, here's your chance: Tell me how reliable your vehicle > has been. 95 Black Discovery service history for the past 3.5 months 2500 miles: Oil change & sent to body shop to re-align rear door (mounted wrong) 7500 miles: Oil change & replaced A/C button (light out) replaced R. Headlight (getting dim) replaced L/R valve cover gaskets (minor seepage) replaced rear transfer case seal (seepage around e-brake) replaced trim fastener (fell out) Total maintenance expense so far: $ 50.08 (2nd oil change, first one was free) _____ /|__|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "Mark Talbot" Thu Nov 9 00:35:19 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 00:35:19 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: FOR SALE 88 TROPICAL ROOF F O R S A L E 88 Tropical roof, comes off a 71 SIIA. Offers in the region of $250 Call or e-mail 603-357-3401 Mark From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Nov 08 23:34:08 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 23:34:08 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Squirrels in my heater Dave Bobeck and his squirrels - or - Look, Boris! Is Moose and Squirrel! > Now I know why the Series III heater fan is > referred to as a "Squirrel Cage". When you turn it > on it sounds like there's a squirrel inside! Neat. / It *is* annoying, isn't it. My Ser III did that - it got worse when it was cold. At -20F it was *real* bad... but then you don't get much heat, so why bother at all... Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Nov 08 23:34:41 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 23:34:41 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: rro > rro - Hey.... That's the noise my Landy makes when it gets c-c-cold outside. From ARPollard@aol.com Thu Nov 9 00:17:50 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:17:50 -0500 From: ARPollard@aol.com Subject: re: Overheat light - transmission Re: a couple of postings about getting false transmission fluid overheat indications in Discos after "swimming". I had the same thing happen with my '87 RR a couple of years ago after fording a river several times (it was fun). I assumed the sensor was damaged by thermal shock -- it's right behind the grill on the tranny cooler. Due to the high cost of replacement -- over $60 US, combined with the fact that I have never even come close to overheating it, don't pull trailers, etc, I just disconnected it (I may have had to short the wires, can't remember for sure). WARNING! When I was trying to diagnose the overheat light, I discovered that my ATF had turned cloudy and grayish. Water I presume. Be sure to check yours! Flushing it out required several cycles of drain, fill, drive, drain... because the fluid in the torque converter doesn't come out when you drain it. It only just now occurred to me that the sensor malfunction could have been related to the altered thermal and/or electrical properties of the water-contaminated ATF. I'll try hooking it back up and see if it's still broken. I'll let you know if I learn anything. Alan Pollard Colorado Springs, CO arpollard@aol.com From James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Thu Nov 9 00:29:25 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:29:25 -0500 (EST) From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Subject: Re: Manuals and dirty hands As far as copywrite infringement, the Series I Manual is not copywrited, at least in a manner recognisable by the local copy shop. The employee even called the manager over because "they don't make books like this without copy write" after much discussion they decided to copy the parts I needed. I don't know about the other manuals though. I still need to know if the Series I wheel cylinders and the IIA are interchangeable - if anyone knows HELP! Regards, Jay Kirkaptrick '55 Series I '69 Series IIA From tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de Thu Nov 9 8:28:16 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 8:28:16 MET From: tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: Leaky center diff Hi all I've a little problem (most of you won't even call it this way). After driving my center diff of my 110 (1989) looses some drops of gearoil. It seems to be related with the diff getting warm, since it stops after it cools down. The comes out somewhere at the upper part of the housing (perhaps where the two parts are flanched together), not at one of the shaftseals. The oillevel is completele ok. If I were free to do so, I wouldn't do anything about it, but they are a bit nasty about oil on the parking lot where I live. If anyone has seen something like this before, please tell me. Thanks, Franz -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Nov 09 08:54:26 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 08:54:26 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Cold Discovery Feet Well I've rovering my Discovery 300 TDi now for seven weeks and 3000 miles. Have done some serious off-roading. No rattles, no problems at all. Average diesel milage so far 10.2 km/l (= 24 miles/US gallon = 28.9 miles/ UK gallon 9.7 km/l( 22.9 m/g US 27.5 m/g UK ) LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Dicovery, ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From rover@europa.com (Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon) Thu Nov 09 00:38:12 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 00:38:12 -0800 From: rover@europa.com (Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon) Subject: Series Sightings My spouse is just back from a two-plus week retreat in Nepal and reports the place is a veritable Land Rover heaven (well, it's close enough). Discos, Rangies and a bunch of Series vehicles. Have a transparency going to be made into a print of a Series sitting in front of a Wei Wei Noodles billboard (yeah, they have them too...) in Kathmandu which reads "Life is Not Like Noodles" -- that's right, only Lucas electrics are like noodles. Will try to scan it and post somewhere along with another of a III on a hand ferry going across some river in Zambia. Which brings up: any folks on the list have objections to using their comments, with credit of course, about Series repairs/problems/etc? I've been thinking about doing some pages dedicated to keeping our vehicles runnin' and have been culled through several saved months of the digest. As I see it now, there's no easy way to hunt for info. ==="Rover? Who drives it?"===================Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com ..."That would be telling"......................... rover@europa.com ========================-The Prisoner========================'69 IIA 88" From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Thu Nov 9 03:44:15 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:44:15 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Ext. Sun Visor Wanted Hello all....... Ever get in the mood where you itch to find one more gadget to bolt onto the Landie? Well, my current want is one of those nifty bolt on exterior sun visors. Truthfully, I've never seen one in person, only in photos. Would like to find a used but decent one just to save a few bucks over the price of a new one. Atlantic British doesn't show one in their current catalog. I don't have a current Rovers North catalog but I'm told that they do have the visors (RN #90608551) for $175 US. Anyone know of other sources or know of a used one available? Oh, also, what about a good source (US) for the high lift jack, complete with brackets and fittings for exterior mounting, new or good used. Thanks all. Cordially: Rick Crider KD4FXA Monroe NC USA 66 Slla 109" Hugo ......and for sale..... 73 Slll 88" Jesse 88 Range Rover ~~~~~~Where would we be without the LRO list.........~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Thu Nov 9 03:44:43 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:44:43 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Repost request: Tropical Roof Would the person selling the tropical roof panel please repost or email me, if its still available. Would like to pass it on to a non list lro. Thanks. Rick Crider From Peter Kutschera Thu Nov 9 10:56:57 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:56:57 +0100 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: Land Rover Bicycle (!) Does it have 4 - I mean 2 weel drive? Peter :-) From Danny Phillips Thu Nov 9 10:37:41 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:37:41 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: bits dear all, cheers for the info regards subscribing to other lists. done it. to the chap who suggests that i *wash* my windows so that i can wave to people all i can say is what a novel concept, i thought all land rovers changed to that dusty brown colour. you mean it comes off ! here in the uk there is a company called coastal engineering who advertise fitting 6.2 and 6.5 v8 gm diesals, they are on +44 (0)1460 234724. as for the trivia questions, a) the answer about the honda crossroads, is second only to when our friends say 'hows your jeep?' aaaaarrrghhhhhhh. and b) the differnce between the rr are that the 1990 one has a silk tie fixed to the driver, not just cotton. there that was easy! cheers guys. p.s. even my wife (jaki) says that she has had to change her outlook on people after meeting the peeps in our club. pleasent peeps one and all, now i can tell her its a world wide epidemic. 'everyone needs a land rover they just don't know it yet' From "Rodney A. Walker" Thu Nov 09 12:21:36 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:21:36 +0100 From: "Rodney A. Walker" Subject: Series I Smith's Heaters (Recore) I'm restoring an 86" Series 1 Landrover and I'm in the UK for 6 months. I've obtained a lot of excellent gear for it including a number of Smith's heaters that are not available in Australia. However all of the cores are RS (stuffed) and I was wondering who in the UK can recore these things. Someone must have had it done here. Craddock will sell then but they are =A3130 and I'm sure that it can be done cheaper than that. Any US suppliers? Any ideas? Rod Walker 55 86" Series 1 Nearly finished 53 80" 49 80" Ex MoD 02BC23 -- Rodney Walker Radio Communication Research Unit Building R25, Room 2.38 Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Chilton, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0QX, UK Tel: +44-1235-44 5492 Fax: +44-1235-44 6140 -- From 09 95 Nov EST 1909 Date: 09 Nov 95 09:07:05 EST From: Subject: US OEM DISCO WINCHES ETC visited the bay state (Massachusetts usa) auto show last night and predictably hung out around the lr stand. red 90 and black 4.6 sold already. sd spec disco and a white se7 toting a batch of lrna oem accessories including a warn 9000 winch and roof rack. some thoughts on those accessories... to fit the winch Lrna (pronounced learner?) makes the dealer slice up the plastic spoiler and the metal bumper which is a crazy idea. can't believe that anyone wants to permanently damage a vehicle like that. the whole assembly must weigh 200lbs as well and definitely needs heavy duty springs to recover the lost ride height. also by sticking out from the front of the vehicle by about a foot it can't do anything positive for the angle of approach. big thumbs down on that one guys. sorry. the roof rack looked like something that safety devices in the uk would make. but suffered from very poor paint coverage. i don't know if they use a galvanized primer underneath the black paint but you could see the primer in a number of places. not good. now don't blame the dealer for either of these, they have to buy their stuff from lrna therefore have no choice. i like the guys over at metro west land rover so much that I'm due back there tomorrow to get a mud flap put back on having ripped the last one off. regards Chris browne Boston mass Chris_browne@minet-usa-bos.ccmail.compuserve.com http://www.minet-tech.com From Rob Bailey Thu Nov 9 07:15:19 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:15:19 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Re: Squirrels in my heater If your fan bearings are going, and you have a Kodiak heater, you can get a good replacement fan from a wrecker. I changed mine for a nice, big, new looking fan from a early (late 60's, early 70's) Ford Pickup. Had to change the mounting plate and squirrel cage, but it works great and cost $10. Getting the fan from the Ford is very simple in those years, as it is sitting right out in the open, just like the LR's. Rob > Now I know why the Series III heater fan is > referred to as a "Squirrel Cage". When you turn it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > it actually gets cold. Anybody had this > happen? No? You will now! "List syndrome" > strikes again! From Duncan Brown Thu Nov 09 09:44:36 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 09:44:36 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Steering wheel groaning All, When driving my 88 (made in 1959, titled as a 1960) in very cold weather, I (made in 1961, titled as a 1962) find that my elbows emit a loud creaking noise when attempting to turn the steering wheel hard to either side. Does anyone have the Rover service bulletin number for this problem so I can go to my dealer to have it fixed? Thanks, Duncan From Dixon Kenner Thu Nov 9 09:47:24 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:47:24 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Hub Wrench On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, LTC Larry Smith wrote: > nuts. I went to the local NAPA store and they ordered a 2 1/16inch hub > service/wheel bearing wrench (looks like an oversized sheetmetal sparkplug > wrench). Cost was about $12.00. No, its not a perfect fit, esp. with the > rounded corners on the nuts, but it works. You can get these sockets from automotive/machine shop supply houses & are made out of thick steel. Mine is slightly larger so I can put it on over the lock tabs and just rip the tab off while taking the nut off (fiddling with the tabs can be a pain at times) You should replace these tabs. I have seen some in horrid condifion. (the slightly larger size also allows you to get the socket over some of the burrs from hammer and chisel efforts in a prior life. The thin walled tin ones are a bit useless. It is worth getting the think walled one IMHO. Rgds, Dixon From nadyne@bccom.com Thu Nov 9 10:00:25 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:00:25 -0500 From: nadyne@bccom.com Subject: Re: Maintenance manual from newsgroup How about making it into a Word document, indexing it, and then using "find" to search it like a database? I'd love to take a crack at it. nadyne@bccom.com From Dixon Kenner Thu Nov 9 09:58:40 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:58:40 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Brake Problems On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > You're NOT supposed to raise the front of a 109. It needs to be dead level > as the rear cylinder will trap air. If you want to get air out of the master, raising makes life a lot easier... Rgds, From Mike Rooth Thu Nov 9 15:20:06 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 15:20:06 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Steering wheel groaning > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > so I can go to my dealer to have it fixed? > Thanks, > Duncan Try Elbow Grease.Call Lanny at RN,I beleive it may be on offer this month. Cheers Mike Rooth From Michael Slade Thu Nov 9 07:46:19 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:46:19 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Slade Subject: Trakkers VS. Bat Fastard Hello, Just thinking of seating options for a 109, and was wondering if anyone had done a comparison of the HiBack Weenies available from Trakkers, and the similar seats available from Bat Fastards (always catch myself on that one :) ). Or, what about finding D110 seats from a breaker? I know that there are several other non-LR seats that will fit the front, are there any other manufacturers seats that will fit in (without too much trouble) the rear of a 109? Thanks, Michael slade@teleport.COM Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81) From Sanna@aol.com Thu Nov 9 11:15:29 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:15:29 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Steering wheel groaning >>When driving my 88 (made in 1959, titled as a 1960) in very cold weather, I (made in 1961, titled as a 1962) find that my elbows emit a loud creaking noise when attempting to turn the steering wheel hard to either side. Hey, it's an easy fix. A pair of coveralls fitted with a flexible hose to the heater works very well. You can even drive with the windows open (recommended, since there is no longer any airflow to the defrosters), although passengers have it pretty tough. But hey, let'm squeek. This actually was a factory installed option on ragtop models, suffix e through f. From Ian Robinson Thu Nov 9 09:14:16 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:14:16 GMT From: Ian Robinson Subject: subscribe Please Email me details of how to subscribe to the Land Rover Digest -- Regards | EMail ian@fourx4.demon.co.uk Ian | Mobile +44 (0) 402 000132 Forest Landrovers 4 x 4 Centre | Work +44 (0) 1954 822606 Forest of Dean, Glos, UK | Fax +44 (0) 1594 822634 From cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Thu Nov 9 08:08:40 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:08:40 -0800 From: cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us (Christopher Boese) Subject: Discovery quality control problems Robert Watson writes, r.e. Discovery reliability: >95 Black Discovery service history for the past 3.5 months > 2500 miles: Oil change & > sent to body shop to re-align rear door (mounted wrong) I've had my suspicions about my rear door and wonder if I might have the same problem. I'm the one with the creaky rear door that the dealer hasn't fixed yet. How did you know the door had been mounted wrong? Did you see something? Hear something? For me, it's not the noise, it's what it might mean that bugs. Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From Sanjay Prasad Thu Nov 09 11:35:58 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:35:58 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: Range Rovers In response to the question about 87-90 Range Rovers, I have a 90 Range Rover which we bought last March. We have put about 10,000 miles on it since then and haven't had any problems. The gas mileage has been about 15-16 mpg on the highway and about 12-13 in the city. We bought the beast from LandRover Metro West in Natick, Massachusetts and have been very pleased with their service. We got 48 free oil changes with the car so our service costs for the first 10k miles have been zero. Overall, I have nothing but good things to say about the Range Rover. My wife and I have always had japanese cars but decided that with a new baby coming we needed something with more room than our Honda Prelude. So after looking at Jeeps, Explorers, etc. we decided to try something different (and save some money at the same time) by buying a used Range Rover. We have taken it on a number of trips and have found that it is quite comfortable. Of course the off-road performance, in the few times I have taken it out, is spectacular. The only problem I can see with 23k miles a year is the fuel cost. Premium unleaded fuel at 15 mpg tends to add up (at least when compared to a japanese economy car). Sanjay Prasad Boston, MA prasad@ba-iplaw.com From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Thu Nov 9 08:42:16 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:42:16 -0800 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: McNamara Diffs? My rear diff has apparently died (girlfriend back home reports death... half-shafts are fine...lacking full diagnosis on cause of death...). As I am currently in the UK, I will probably pick up a new diff and bring it home in my carryone ;) but I thought I'd check on lockers. Anyone using a McNamara locking diff? What are the co$t$. Do you buy a whole unit or refit an existing diff? Where would someone in the western USA purchase one of these. Opinions? What are the other (non-air-operated) lockers available and what are their costs, availability, benefits (and drawbacks). I apologise for the flurry of queries, but I am rushed as I am returnning to the states shortly (if I bring back a ser III SWB diff and decide to get a locker... anyone in the western USA interested in buying a new stock diff at UK prices? ;) thanks, jory From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Thu Nov 9 08:57:30 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:57:30 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: Panhard You wrote >Russ W. wants to know..... >> Panhard?????? Panhead, I know. Panhard....Hmmm Tell us a story about the >> mystical Panhard. snip >Its French. Need I say more?? >Cheers >Mike French? RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!... no wait a minute, hold on .. BURN IT! BURN IT! Cheers Jeremy ("je deteste les automechaniques francaises") Bartlett From schmit@wirehub.nl (Dolf van mil) Thu Nov 9 17:16:02 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:16:02 GMT From: schmit@wirehub.nl (Dolf van mil) Subject: Damper ?? on handbrake drum ?? Hallo there, In the thechnical handbook i use there is a *damper* on the handbrake drum. Well on my SIIa 1964 there is nothing like that. Is there someone who have any idea what the purpose of this *damper* is and if it is required or just leave it away? Ok bye bye for now... Dolf... From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Thu Nov 9 12:09:13 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 12:09:13 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: RR fuel economy - why so bad? Someone just posted that he gets 12-13 city, 15-16 mpg hwy in a '90 RR. That's awful! A Bronco/F150 with a 351 (5.7 l), 220 hp, 280 ft-lb torque gets 15 city, 17 or more on hwy. And it weighs over 5,000 lbs. I assume the '90 in Mass must meet emissions, so it's not going out the tail pipe. Otto cycle is the same for US and UK vehicles, must be the creature comforts on the RR: AC/stereo/cell-phone ? (trolling... trolling...) I don't feel so bad getting 13 mpg in a dual-Strombed 3.5l, I wish I had the 280 ft-lb of torque, though. See ya, I mean, cheers Jan From "Michael Wood" Thu Nov 9 09:37:10 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:37:10 +8 From: "Michael Wood" Subject: Broken Half Shaft. I've got a 1965 Land Rover series IIA 88 which has a new problem. It appears to be the half? shaft in the rear differential. I hear it is not an uncommon occurance. As soon as I lost it, I stopped to see if it was the transmission popping out of gear and when I could see the drive shaft rotating with nothing happening, I figured... Anyways, how difficult is it to find the half shaft part in the diff? How hard is it to replace? Does it require removing the whole rear end or can I do it by dropping the srive shaft or something? I checked one of the maintenance manuals and it seems to require dropping the rear end to work on it. M. Wood From Brian Neill Tiedemann Fri Nov 10 04:36:58 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 04:36:58 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: Leaky centre diff... Franz, I have experienced a similar leak from my 77 RR's 4 speed gearbox.... I am not sure that your box is the same, but I think it is, so here goes: The selector shaft for High/Low range change runs right through the upper section of the transfer case ( behind the handbrake handle on one side, and almost inline with and above the gearbox mounts on both sides). The shaft on earlier release boxes is sealed by square section rubber washers which are retained in grooves under a diamond shaped plate on each side of the box. The plates are secured in place by a very large flat blade type screw at two corners of the diamond, and the shaft passes through the middle of them. Some time later, I don't know when, LR decided that the seals did not work- everyone else already knew! The fix is to replace them with round section "O-ring" type seals of the correct size. I bought one from my local original parts supplier for several dollars, then took it to the nearest bearing/oilseal seller and matched it up with an identical one which they sell, and bought 10 for around $0.50. Now I feel good because I can give them to my leaking friends, knowing that I am depriving the orig. parts bloodsucker of a few bucks! The leak is gone, but getting those screws in and out is a fiddle in a RR. The O-rings I bought were approximately 2.6mm (~3/32") in cross section, and had an overall outside diameter of approximately 20.7mm (13/16"). This was actually the only significant leak from my transmission, but oh well, the engine makes up for it. If you are unsure of where exactly yours is leaking, try wiping or washing as much as possible away, then keep checking after driving until you see the source of the leak. Sand driving is another good way to find leaks. The finest sand sticks well to oil! BTW it should not be gear oil if you have the same box as me, but rather ordinary engine oil (separate systems for gearbox, transfer case, engine, but same stuff in all). Hope this helps, I can probably find the reference number for the O rings I bought too if you need it, or else just lash out and buy OEM version. cheers, Brian. From Brian Neill Tiedemann Fri Nov 10 04:39:01 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 04:39:01 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: Trivia... I'm thinkin of door and bonnet hinges dissapearing from view..... Do I win da prize? seeya, Brian. From Brian Neill Tiedemann Fri Nov 10 04:50:32 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 04:50:32 +1100 (EDT) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: Re: diesel 6.2 John Hess writes: > Check out the reputation for this engine! > I don't know diesels BUT a friend of mine down the street with 2 diesel > fords trucks and a diesel ford car (mazda engine) does. He says the GM 6.2 > is not good. It was a gas car engine that was converted in the fuel crisis > but that failed and cost the company money so it was strengthened but not > quite enough. He says the ford 6.9 is much better. > So, the advice is free and as useful! The guy who has it mentioned that there was bad things said about some versions of this engine (early ones?) but claims that this one is of the later "black block" version which is supposed to be better. Interesting though, as I too am fairly "diesel illiterate" and like to listen around. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Nov 9 12:00:27 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:00:27 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Ext. Sun Visor Wanted RICKCRIDER writes: Snip > Well, my current want is one of those nifty bolt on exterior sun visors. > Truthfully, I've never seen one in person, only in photos. Would like to > find a used but decent one just to save a few bucks over the price of a new > one. Atlantic British doesn't show one in their current catalog. I don't It would be very easy for a tin knocker to make you one. I have one and it is 3 triangular sheet metal brackets, each with two lips folded, to mount on the windscreen. The visor itself is a long rectangular piece with a lip folded up in the rear to mate with the windscreen top, and a lip folded down in front to add rigidity (which didn't stop mine from cracking. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Nov 9 14:33:20 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:33:20 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Brake Problems > On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > > You're NOT supposed to raise the front of a 109. It needs to be dead level > > as the rear cylinder will trap air. and Dixon wrote: > If you want to get air out of the master, raising makes life a lot > easier... I think that only applies to the CB type cylinder which has the outlet pipe a good ways forward of the rear of the cylinder. The slope of the mount will allow an air pocket to form. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Thu Nov 9 14:59:40 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 14:59:40 EST From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Subject: Squirrely Heater and Ramblings David Bobeck has rodents in his heater. ME TOO! I was just thinking about posting this problem. My guess is the electric motor is in its death throes. Anybody know of a cheap replacement source or can these units be successfully rebuilt? By the way, I have found that the late IIA/III heating system is fully adequate for my climate (Mountainous East Tennessee, USA). A while back, however, I found that most of my heated air was blowing out the heater matrix box into the engine compartment. Seems that the matrix was originally padded in the box with open cell foam or some other type of material with a short half life. Mine had turned to dust, exposing a few large holes (intentionally put there to allow for other applications, I suppose) in the box. Re assembly using some stray closed cell foam increased hot air throughput to the cabin immensely. This morning it was 27 degrees F, and halfway to work, I had to tun the blower to low! The IIA is my primary car while my RR is in the shop for body work, courtesy of a geriatric driver in Dillwyn, VA. Yeah, if you saw a Range Rover down an embankment coming home from the Mid-Atlantic Rally, it was me. Nobody hurt, but if the guy had pulled in to my lane two seconds later, I would have hit him head on. The old guy never saw me, or much of anything else. Maybe the reckless driving violation will end his driving career. He's 84. (Sorry, I digress.) I decided to go the extra mile and paint the whole dang thing while I was at it. Not cheap, but the body man (a Rover fanatic himself) told me I was getting the job at less than half of the price than if the insurance work wasn't there. Who needs savings anyway? I'm finding that the more I use the IIA, the better it runs. We go off road tomorrow in pursuit of whitetail. Have a good weekend. I know I will. Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 1989 RR BT From Dixon Kenner Thu Nov 9 16:30:01 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:30:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Brake Problems On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > I think that only applies to the CB type cylinder which has the > outlet pipe a good ways forward of the rear of the cylinder. The > slope of the mount will allow an air pocket to form. Possibly... I am only familiar with the CB style, which is the most common around here. Boosted systems have the master level already, so it isn't a concern. Anyway, I used to have a dead TR-7 for this before I scrapped it. Driving up to the shock towers puts the front end of the LR at the right height for getting air out of the master cylinder. Kinda fun too. Rgds from the tundra... From daniel@sys.nl (D.J_Polak) Fri Nov 10 00:14:09 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:14:09 +0100 From: daniel@sys.nl (D.J_Polak) Subject: Land Rover magazines Roy, (In English for the sake of the others on the list, I DO speak Dutch) I live in Amsterdam and have a subscription to Land Rover World. I called them before I decided to subscribe and asked them for a trial copy, if I remember correctly they sent me one. Their phone number is 00 44 181 597 7335. I can recommend it it's a nice magazine. Daniel /---------------- / | | _====_ /______| | _|____ | | _______ | {_/ \\ |______/ / / \ \_| [( )\--------- ( ) -] \ _ / \ _ / 1957 DAF YA 126 1973 Light Weight Land Rover From brutus@jurassic-45.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Curtis) Thu Nov 9 15:42:56 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:42:56 -0800 From: brutus@jurassic-45.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Curtis) Subject: Re: Land Rover Bicycle (!) > FYI, everyone, here's the URL for a description of that Land Rover bicycle. > According to the Web search site's abstract, the bike is built under license [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > UK might have better luck: > http://137.205.192.13/~esrgq/moulton/landrapb.html I tried http://crocus.csv.warwick.ac.uk/~esrgq/moulton/landrapb.html and the URL work just fine. It's designed by Moulton and based on the Moulton APB. -- Bruce W. Curtis brutus@Eng.Sun.COM SunSoft, Internet