From ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) Mon Jan 2 11:58:02 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:58:02 +0100 From: ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) Subject: Re: Gas Tank Question > > My roommate related the story of a co-worker who had an accident with an > explorer -- rear-ended someone at 15mph. Did $9,000 worth of damage. My > roommate did the same thing in his toyota truck at 40mph for $4,000 worth of > damage. I doubt a Rover would have much at all in the way of damage. My brother rear-ended a smallish Toyota with my Land-Rover. The Toyo was standing still, but took a leap, and hit a car in the opposite lane. Results : Land-Rover : new glass for indicator light, and a bill of about $400 for straightening out the lefthand bumper-bracket. The other cars were totalled. I'd estimate the speed at about 50 Km/H.... -------------------------------------------------------- Ketil Kirkerud Lillebil TVNorge A/S 1979 109" Petrol SW. From Gregory Brown Mon Jan 2 09:33:38 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:33:38 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Brown Subject: Paddock,Craddock, and Mercyside Erik asks about Paddock: AEW Paddock is an English supply house of .......... Land Rover parts. Also there are two other frequently mentioned on the net Parts Houses:John Craddock and Mercyside Land Rover. Also at the end of the digest is a WWW site for the Land Rover home page. There is a lenghty listing of suppliers in the US, UK and the rest of the world. If you need more help and want the telephone numbers and addresses let me know. Greg '71 Series IIA 88 Connecticut, USA Aaah new rocker shaft and rebushed rockers.... Umm oil pressure still poor From Steve Methley Mon Jan 2 20:46:43 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 20:46:43 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: rust off steel To the person with a rusty chassis: Try a wire brush in an angle grinder - not the electric drill type, but one _rated for the grinder speed_. If you've never seen it you'll wonder why you did it any other way. I assume you know the other safety requirements too, of course. Cheers, Steve, 79RR. From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 2 12:53:54 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:53:54 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Reverse Lights Etc. >Greg asked about Spanish ODs: >Toro is the brand. I have heard that they have a bigger oil reservoir and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >supposedly more robust than the Fairey units. It's a direct replacement. I >don't understand why ABP wants another $100-$200 for them. If that's the case, I have (I think) a Toro on my 109", and every one keeps telling me that it's terrible, and I should sell it to them for $50... There are some things that make it better than the fairey, but I don't remember what they are. I do know it has a dipstick on the top to check the oil. Wonder why the transmission & Transfer case don't have one? If they're available, I'll probably get one for my 88" (when I win the lottery). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 2 12:53:48 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:53:48 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Reversing Lights Why not just wire up a manual switch? Since the lights aren't stock issue, you could probably also remove them. Silly question here... Did you check to see if the bulbs work? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 2 12:53:51 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:53:51 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: The 'Anti-Christ' There was an article in the last Aluminum Workhorse about various movies starring Land Rovers. And in the issue before that, some talk about what the ultimate land Rover movie is. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Jan 2 17:12:31 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 17:12:31 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: XMAS gift from my Land Rover This is my second posting to LRO Digest, and I have a problem which requires some pondering! I live up in Northern Quebec, about 40 miles from Ottawa, with wife, son, dog and a 1974 Series III Land Rover, that I am trying to keep in good original condition. I was planning to give my LR a XMAS present by taking it on holidays for a week, but it look like it beat me to it. The problem started over a month ago when it seemed to be charging intermittently. I took the LUCAS alternator into a shop in Ottawa to check. They replaced the stator and voltage regulator to the tune of $150. I put it on and everything seemed OK. Last weekend I took it for a longer drive and noticed on the way back that it had gone off charge. I left it for a week and then went out to check it for the trip. When it went to start it I noticed the warning light was not on. I thought aha!, the warning light is burnt out and because it is directy connected to the circuit the alternator is not charging. Several hours later I was convinced that the alternator was the problem. Because if I took a jumper lead and connected it to the IND terminal on the back of the alternator, and then to the negative post of the battery (grounding it) the warning light would come on. Yesterday being XMAS eve, I was getting desperate and went over to a friend's place (Dr John Wotton - for those OVLR members) whose poor Land Rover is now resting peacefully under a crabapple tree, waiting for a frame restoration. John was good enough to let me borrow his alternator. Brought it home put it one! Same problem. John said his alternator was working when he parked it over a year or two ago. Now is it possible that 2 LUCAS alternators would both have the same problem on XMAS eve. Decided to investigate further! After several hours yesterday I have tried the following. Have checked and bypassed connections on both sides of the warning light. Everything OK. I can get the light to light up if I ground the connection that goes to the IND terminal of the alternator. I have tried grounding the alternator directly to the negative post of the battery. NO change. I have checked both the the S and + connections to the alternator. OK, power is going thru them to the alternator. Does this warning light simply get power from the white wire coming from the ignition switch and ground thru the IND terminal of the alternator? If so it would seem that there is a open circuit in the alternator! This is getting long, so I am going to leave it there. I hope that is enough. At this point I am still perplexed, so I guess the LR will be resting peacefully till early January, as we go off in our old VOLVO. A Hearty Merry Christmas to all LAND ROVER enthusiasts out there!! :-{> Cheers! From "Jurgen Klus" Tue Jan 3 08:45:06 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:45:06 GMT-0930 From: "Jurgen Klus" Subject: Goodbye unsubscribe lro-digest Jurgen Klus Voice 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 From "Jurgen Klus" Tue Jan 3 08:42:08 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:42:08 GMT-0930 From: "Jurgen Klus" Subject: Goodbye Well, all comes to pass. I must bid yee all farewell. I must leave this wonderful group of people, who all have such good taste! Yes, my esteemed employer, (Flinders University), has made me redundant. I am so sad, after all these years, thrown upon the heap at such a young age (I'm only 36!). What's worse, there goes my internet connection! What will I do with all that grubby money they're going to give me? Well, I guess I'll just have to drive my Discovery around and think about it! As Douglas Adams said (Hitch Hickers Guide to the Galaxy), See you, and thanks for all the fish. the best to all of you....... Jurgen Klus Voice 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 02 18:30:39 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 18:30:39 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Reversing Lights Chris.. Reverse lamp switch.... Atlantic British lists one and I imagine Rovers North does too... You can probably find a compatible switch at a good electronic supply place. As far as repairing the speedo... You could call Rovers North for starters.. Also, pick up a copy of Hemmings Motor News and check the ads for places that repair guages. If you've never seen Hemmings, its a thick monthly magazine that caters to the old car hobby and consists mainly of ads for vehicles for sale. Good source of info on speciaized restoration services. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 02 18:30:28 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 18:30:28 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Erik... > Rust and Paint Removal?? ...... > and take it to be sandblasted, nor do I want to make a career of wire > brushing by hand. Suggestions? > Also, what's the best way to remove the paint from the body panels? I'm faced with a similar situation with my '65. For right now I'm sanding or wire-brushing. Once Winter is over I'll be ready to attack the frame. I've considered sandblasting it, but then there is the problem of getting sand inside the frame. A few people I know have had thier frames galvanized but that means you have to haul it somewhere to be done. Have you considered renting a sandblaster?? > The last question: What is "Paddocks" refered to in the digest? More That would be A.E.W. Paddock Motors Ltd, a supplier of Land Rover parts in the U.K. I've had good luck with them, others have not. Not all the parts they supply are "genuine Land Rover". Prices are pretty good. Phone # (0629) 584499, Fax (0629) 584498 if you're interested. If you can find a copy of "Land Rover Owner" magazine, you'll see ads from Paddock and other suppliers. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 02 19:00:07 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 19:00:07 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Reverse Lights Etc. Roger... > If that's the case, I have (I think) a Toro on my 109", and every one > keeps > telling me that it's terrible, and I should sell it to them for $50... none True, true! Rotten piece of machinery... Sell it to me for $50!! I'll even pay the shipping... :) > There are some things that make it better than the fairey, but I don't > remember what they are. I do know it has a dipstick on the top to check > the > oil. Wonder why the transmission & Transfer case don't have one? Actually, I don't know squat about the Toro, but the Fairey I have also has a dipstick. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From FHYap@aol.com Mon Jan 2 20:20:11 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 20:20:11 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Discovery & Religion Queries: (1) Would a Discovery have similar damage to the Explorer or Toyota (what model) if it rear ended another vehicle (as described in a recent mailing)? (2) Any comment of the report in CarSmart (by the editors of Popular Mechanics?) where they test several popular "SUV" and conclude that the Discovery is an "unacceptable vehicle?" Note: There is a recent Wall Street Journal article about Charlton Heston's Voyage Through the Bible, a CD-ROM version of the bible (available next Christmas), where Heston traverses the Holy Land in a Land Rover. From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Tue Jan 3 00:28:47 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:28:47 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Alternator/warning light problem Anyone posting advice on my charging problem please post to the LRO Daily Digest or to me directly. I was not able to send this from home before I left at XMAS so posted it from my friend's site at "guild@sail.uwaterloo.ca (Paul D. Guild)". Just got back today, so have not had time to look at the Land Rover yet! Cheers and all the best for 95' From Jimmy Patrick Tue Jan 3 06:21:27 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:21:27 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: sacul (lucas backwards) Lucas is here. It seems that the lucas demons have been visiting several of us for the holidays. Sandy, its a shame you didn't catch him and shoot him while he was there. He made his way over here to England and my Land Rover. I think I have a short somewhere, but I can't figure it out. The battery charges enough if I drive it around a bit on a motorway or something. But if I drive at night, the lights start out ok and then slowly dim to blackness. If I don't drive at night and use the lights, the battery usually retains enough charge to start up again the next morning. I have a "new" refurbished alternator in there but I know better than to think that because a part is new, that means it is good. I think the place to start is with the little round switch that the key goes in and that has the switch around the outside for the running lamps and the original headlight switch. Sometimes when I turn off the key, the motor goes on running, not like dieseling on but like it was never switched off.... The headlamps are now on a separate switch. Can you put too much headlamp on a rover, I mean one that draws too much power for the alternator?? Maybe my battery is knackered and won't charge up, but I'd hate to get a new one and then run that one flat right away too. Is there a crank starter available for land-rovers as an option. Can anyone help me with a place to start. I am new to Land-Rovers and Lucas systems. It is negative-ground. Cheers, Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From "Peter C. Parsons" Tue Jan 3 08:49:38 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:49:38 -0700 From: "Peter C. Parsons" Subject: Re: Goodbye From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Jan 03 08:54:09 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 08:54:09 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Oil pressure problems... reply. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Oil pressure problems... reply. Greg Brown, While I'm not a mechanic by trade, I have done a lot of tinkering, and backyard stuff, and read a lot of technical information. Here are some possibilities in reference to your oil pressure problems. With (I forget exactly) around 40 psi at idle, that doesn't sound like a oil pump problem. When your pressure drops as the angle of your vehicle changes, it could be: 1.) Low oil level. (dip stick is not accurate?) 2.) the oil pick-up tube is too high inside the oil pan, therefore not "in" the oil at an angle. 3.) I've read about oil baffles within some oil pans, designed to keep a quantity of oil near the pick-up tube while the vehicle is at an angle, maybe yours are missing, or became dislodged??? If it were me, I'd first check the oil level. If the dipstick reads full, drain the oil and measure the quantity removed. If that's okay, I'd drop the pan and look for a loose pick-up tube, or.... ??? Anyone else have any suggestions? Dave Brown (I like your last name!) '94 Discovery (for sale. :( ) Phoenix AZ #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Ray Harder Tue Jan 3 10:00:00 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:00:00 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: working rovers We had an ugly bald cypress pine in the front yard of our house. It is a pine tree that sheds it's needles in the winter. For various reasons, we (read that: the wife) decided it had to go. About 40 feet tall. The problem is that there was a power line next to it and the thought of me cutting it down was kind of scary. Things can go wrong and I didn't want to reap those kind of consequences. OK, so the tree-trimmer said $400 to cut down the tree and haul it off. And $3 per inch to grind out the stump which would be another $100. "$500 worth of rover parts." I said to myself. Put it off for 3 weeks -- the subconsious mind was working, though. Son was home between semesters and we took it down: -- With the extension ladder, cut off all the branches up to about 20 feet and hauled them to the recycling depot. -- Hooked LULU's winch onto the tree at about the 25 ft. level. Put the Dick Cepek 20,000# strap onto the back and hooked it onto a tree that happened to be in a good location. LULU's winch is a Koenig crankshaft 8,000#. The hardest part is keeping the engine idling. -- Engaged the winch power and put the tree into a terrific bow. It could only come down one way. I climbed the ladder and cut it off at the 15 ft level while my son applied winch power whenever I nodded. The tree emitted a loud "crack" and down it came. We trimmed the branches and hauled them to the recycling depot. The trunk was cut into pieces and is being burned. OK, so I still need to dig down and cut out the stump, but that will happen when we get some warmer weather. Subtle (ok, direct) comments are being made to the wife repeatedly: -- you couldn't do that with a honda... -- I should get to spend the $500 on rover parts... -- you can trust your friends to help you out... -- you should have been there, you could learn to love LULU, too... Taking out the tree was a good idea. The house looks much better from the street. And, LULU looks much better from the house (because of her bad manners, she must stay out of the driveway and sleep in the street). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 3 08:58:07 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:58:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: sacul (lucas backwards) On or about January 3, Jimmy Patrick wrote: > Lucas is here. none --Snip-snip > Maybe my battery is knackered and won't charge up, but I'd hate to get a > new one and then run that one flat right away too. Is there a crank starter > available for land-rovers as an option. How old is the battery? On a recently purchased vehicle one might expect to find that an easily changed part like a battery is older than the one in the vehicle the seller chose to keep. This would be a prime candidate, based on my experience and your description of the symptoms. A decent garage should be able to to a quick check of the battery's condition under an induced load. They will probably do it for free in the hopes of selling you a new battery, so you may want to watch them throw the switch to simulate the load <8->). If it is the battery, it is an easy, if not cheap, solution to the problem. Good luck. Walter Swain Davis, CA, USA From MarcBowen@aol.com Tue Jan 3 14:25:09 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:25:09 -0500 From: MarcBowen@aol.com Subject: Suscribe please set me address up directly to : msb@ptech.com Thanks, Marc Bowen - own a Discovery From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 03 14:19:18 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 14:19:18 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: This 'n' that Been away for a few days, so pardon the bandwidth if this is old hat... Chris wrote about reverse switches. This may be the one piece of LR original equipment that is "no longer supplied". An exact copy of this switch is not available at any North American supplier (I tried)...I got a used one from Bruce at British Rovers, and I think it was his last. ABP and RN sell switches, but they require modification/drilling to adapt them. The 4" amber lenses have gone the same way..."NLS". Get 'em from junkers, if you can find them at all. Erik wrote about rust removal. After spending many a hot, itchy weekend grinding the old polyester fiberglass of a mahogany sailboat hull, I'd suggest a 7" "Milwaukee" angle grinder, a fairly beefy tool. They make two models, one that turns at about 2,000 RPM and another that does 4,500. Your choice...4,500 RPM and about a bazillion 80 grit discs did it for me. (Ask Dixon about Bates and his roving grinder!) If the rust is 'tight' surface rust, not exfoliating variety, I'd suggest a wash with "Ospho" a chemical primer (phosphoric acid??) that converts iron oxide to the much less reactive iron phosphate. WRT the crash worthiness of a Rover... a 16 yr. old kid (second day driving) rear ended the Rover whilst sitting at a stop sign. He hit the (empty) spare tire carrier with the front corner of his mommie's Lincoln Continental. Busted out the grill, headlights, bent the fender and buckled the hood...about $1,500 damage...and this was 1975 dollars. On the Rover, the tire carrier ring was bent (flattened back out with a 3# hammer) and I pulled the bent door out with a comealong so you couldn't tell. The $350 insurance settlement paid the rent that month. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Jan 03 13:00:17 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 13:00:17 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: ? Military L. Rovers available in the U.S.??? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: ? Military L. Rovers available in the U.S.??? I heard a rumor about some military Land Rovers that may be available in the U.S. Can anyone confirm that or provide me with more information?? Thanks, Please reply dirrect to debrown@srp.gov Dave Brown - debrown@srp.gov - '94 L.R. Discovery (for sale) - Phoenix AZ USA #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Morgan Hannaford Tue Jan 3 12:38:59 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Ultimate Land Rover Movie "Gods" is a great flick, but I've been looking for the Ultimate Land Rover movie: Killer Force. This is a 1975 movie with Peter Fonda, Telly Savalas, and O.J. Simpson! This film is reported to have > a hundred Land Rovers in it. However, no video places in the East Bay (left coast) seem to have it (e.g. Blockbuster,Warehouse etc.). Is this movie so bad that even Berkeley video shops don't carry it? Does anyone have a source? "White Hunter, Black Heart" a movie about John Houston directing the "African Queen" film (starring Clint Eastwood) has a few Rovers in it. Ciao, Morgan H. From "Hui Ben " 3 95 Jan -0600 1915 Date: 3 Jan 95 15:30:02 -0600 From: "Hui Ben " Subject: RE: This 'n' that the amber and clear lenses can be bought. they are the same as the austin mini and any mini shop can get em for you. they come in either dual filament or single filament. you can try craigs auto in vancouver canada 604-461-7337 and tell him ben sent you.. i think he sell the set with the socket, bulbs, rubber weather seal, and chrome ring for about 40.00 each side canadian. From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 3 16:51:04 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:51:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: RE: This 'n' that On 3 Jan 1995, Hui Ben wrote: > the amber and clear lenses can be bought. they are the same as the austin > mini and any mini shop can get em for you. they come in either dual > filament or single filament. You sure this is the 4" amber found on the Series III Land Rover? That particular light as found on the Series III (NA spec) was never on the Austin Mini (sold in Canada until 1980, while US sales ceased in 1968) to my knowledge. (I have has a lot of Cdn Mini's) Rgds, From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 03 17:00:35 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 17:00:35 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Alternator woes One of our northern members writes about problems with a Lucas alternator. You said you noticed it was "off charge" driving home....Is the battery OK? Alternators need a small voltage to "tickle" the field...without this excitation, it won't put out even if the engine is turning. So if the battery is well and truly dead, not just weak, and the vehicle is jumped to get it going, it won't charge once the jump is discontinued. Sometimes the alternator can be fooled by hooking a 6 volt lantern battery to the field wire with jumpers...this is a nifty trick if your marine engine/battery goes down. *----"Jeep may be famous,LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "Hui Ben " 3 95 Jan -0600 1916 Date: 3 Jan 95 16:43:26 -0600 From: "Hui Ben " Subject: RE: This 'n' that sorry i thought you were refering to the small glass ones.. _______________________________________________________________________________ /DDV=\/G=Hui\/S=Ben\/OU2=IL02M\/OU=ILBH\/P=MOT\/A=MOT\/C=US\/@email.corp.mot.com /DDT=RFC-822/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ Cc: /DDV=\/S=CXKS46A@prodigy.com\/OU2=SMTPGW\/OU=ILBA\/P=MOT\/A=MOT\/C=US\/@email.co rp.mot.com/DDT=RFC-822/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/; /S=land-rover-owner@stratus.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Tue Jan 3 15:31:40 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:31:40 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: Land Rover carbs John Karlsson posted the following query to the British Cars list: >I find that parts for the original Solex carburetor (OOOPS! I >mean carburettor.) are no longer made, and after about a quarter [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] > 2899) affect icing, since there seems to be no provision for > heating the carb? John, There are actually two ways to mount the two-barrel Weber carb, a full custom manifold and an adapter piece which allows mounting on the stock Land-Rover manifold. I believe both are made by Pierce manifolds in North California: Phone: 800-874-3728 or 408-842-6667 or fax to 408-842-6673 I suspect that Pierce's price may be lower than that of ABP and suggest that you give Pierce a call. I believe that British Pacific (800-554-4133) may also have a lower price than ABP. If you use the full Pierce manifold (undoubtedly the higher-performance set-up) you will lose the heat-riser connection to the exhaust manifold. So you might as well go with the headers and, as you say, eliminate the manifold cracking nemesis. Then, so I have read, to get the full performance potential from the set-up, you need to go to the cam-grind profile for the 2.5-liter Land-Rover four-cylinder engine. Improvement in performance? Yes. Worth it? Hard to say. Yes, you will have cold-starting and -running problems with this set-up, unless you build and install a heat-riser set-up (of sheetmetal) to capture sufficient heat from the headers and pass it to the manifold. It seems to me that another approach would be to modify the air cleaner set-up (in which, by the way, the Pierce kit normally replaces the oilbath with a K&N dry filter) to have an air pickup which incorporates a heat riser. Several cars that I have had have had such a pick-up and some have had summer and winter settings with a damper that you can move to determine whether the air is cold or hot. I believe one even had a thermostatically controlled damper and that would seem to be the ideal solution. Regarding the single-barrel Weber, it works O.K. but I am skeptical of the performance claims. I have run one and felt that I lost performance, slightly, compared with the Zenith carb which it replaced (on a 1970 Series IIa 88"). There has been considerable discussion on the Land-Rover-Owner discussion group (LRO@team.net) about both types of Webers. Some owners who have used the single-throat Weber have felt that it gave a performance increase. If you pursue one of these modifications, please keep us "posted" on the Land-Rover list (lro@team.net). If you are not a member of this excellent Land-Rover discussion group, I encourage you to join. You can e-mail me for further details, if you wish. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Jan 03 17:24:14 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 17:24:14 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Land Rover carbs In message <199501032331.PAA26129@pacific.pacific.net>you wrote: > John Karlsson posted the following query to the British Cars list: > IIa 88"). There has been considerable discussion on the Land-Rover-Owner [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > have used the single-throat Weber have felt that it gave a performance > increase. I have the Webber single barrel on my Rover. I also have run a Rochester carb. While my gas mileage increased when I moved to the Webber, it was at the cost of horsepower. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications Internation Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Tue Jan 3 18:15:46 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 18:15:46 -0800 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: land rover sadness... well, i had put all my tools and parts in the back of my rover the other day in preparation for doing a bunch of work... someone decided to relieve me of the lot. the thing that really gets me is that the parts will inevitably go to waste (at least someone will get the use of the huge sack of tools... but what thief is going to know what to do wit a bunch of rover parts)... sigh... -jory among the items stolen: ----------------------- new stuart warner oil pressure gauge with install kit custom fabricated sheet metal piece to cover aux gas tank filler tube oil pump rebuild kit (with sump gasket) head gasket new wipers new horn the used fuel pump i just bought from vance chin (i was going to rebuild it) oil filter new set of points new set of plugs 2 of the Castrol/LMA large bottles of brake fluid From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Jan 03 21:21:37 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 21:21:37 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Discovery & Religion > Note: There is a recent Wall Street Journal article about Charlton > Heston's > Voyage Through the Bible, a CD-ROM version of the bible (available next > Christmas), where Heston traverses the Holy Land in a Land Rover. none I've said a lot of words not mentioned in the Bible while traversing an un-holy swamp in a Land Rover... :) From Russell Burns Tue Jan 3 19:42:34 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 19:42:34 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 hardtop I made my trek to Vermont to obtain my Hardtop. With the help of Rovers North we got it installed without too much trouble. We also put in a back seat, which was more trouble than the top. Spent a few nights at a Bed, and breakfast and had a good time. (thanks Mike for the offer of the couch, and dog, but I took my wife instead) I guess we could offer low/no cost couch and dogs as a new fad.... The trip home was actually noisier than the soft top. The door seals whistled like mad at 70 mph with a 30 mph head wind. A little weather stripping on the window edges took care of that problem. I also am in the process of installing a headliner in the top. A trip the the local sporting goods shop, and four 3/8 in. closed cell foam pads later I have a headliner. I just glued the Foam to the roof with silicon glue as I may want to remove it sometime. The one item I did notice with the top is that the support bar for the soft top is removed. I reinstalled it under the foam headliner as I was getting some oil-canning from the wind. I will see how the roof likes the extra support. My only concern is that the support may pop out the alpine windows. Russ Burns From UncleBrad@aol.com Tue Jan 3 22:55:31 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:55:31 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: DownEast Rally For those of you who like to plan ahead... the DownEast VII is scheduled for July 1st & 2nd, 1995. Its free. It will actually be a Saturday, Sunday ,and Monday affair, the Monday activity being a flight in the world's only DC-3/C-47 on floats if enough people sign up. I don't know whether this part is free or not. The organizer is Myles Murphy and there is traditionally a very large turn-out. Lots of fun. You can call Myles Murphy at 207-789-5303 or write him at RR2 Box 22, Lincolnville, Maine, 04849 From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Tue Jan 3 20:39:56 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:39:56 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: smog update plus questions Howdy all, This is my latest smog update; most pertinent to those folks in California, but maybe interesting to others. Smog check #3 was a fail. Not by alot (50 ppm over, 550 not 500), but a fail. I think my insistence to keep coming back to the local guy finally resulted in his working on the rover abit. This meant I could pay him the $50 to cover the state limit and now be off to a state referee station. I have an appointment for Jan 17. Notes. I changed spark plugs to split fire plugs. I told the guy at Grand Auto (no groans please) the correct plug was a champion N5, taken from the brooklands reprint of the land rover manual. From that number, he translated to a splitfire SF40D. My smog guy back checked the splitfires, decided they were wrong, back decoded to champion and then in a last ditch attempt to lower HC, changed the splitfires for RN9YC (that's what is written on my bill). I wasn't going to argue. Can someone please confirm the correct plug for me and my beast, a euro 2.6? Are its plugs different from the NADA? GAP is .030 inches, right? Is the RN9YC acceptable or should I run out and get new N5's ? The splitfires were $6 each and didn't help me pass smog, so they are going back. Second, how do I set the timing on the beast-distributor vacuum advance off? What idle speed is best? I realize it's a little late to ask these questions, but I want to verify that I did things right. My smog guy didn't think much of the gasohol fuel idea and I didn't try it. Can someone tell me if the commericially available stuff (it is still available in CA, right?) is high enough EtOH to significantly lower emissions or would you definitely need to add ethanol or methanol? I work in a lab and have access to any and all organic chemicals. Do the pour things down the carb decarbonization treatments really work? Dave Place (? Ithink it was Dave, if not, my apologies to both Dave and the slighted individual) recommends hot water and a friend says diesel fuel works well. I am skeptical but open to testimonials. The reason I ask is the smog guy wrote on my paperwork that a potential cause of high emissions was carbon on the valves. This is really irrelevant as I have now spent the legal limit and will be ok for two years but on the off chance that decarbonizing the beast will improve valve seating and thus emissions, I may try it. Should any machine shop be able to work on the 2.6 head or will any work need to be done at some special place ie, rovers north? I am thinking that the future holds a rebuild to unlead gas specs. Not today but sometime. This is very long, I hope those not interested can skip to the next article. Thanks to everyone so far. bye john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and good ol reliable Mazda owner! From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Tue Jan 3 21:05:22 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 21:05:22 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: alternator/charging/ser 3 I seem to recall through various friends in the past w/series 3 charging problems that, after ripping everything out by the roots and tearing out great hunks `o hair in diagnosing the culprit, that it turned out to be the charging warning lamp itself! That this 2-bit part will actually open the circuit if the bulb has failed...! So check this out before you spend gazillions on the bigger bits... regards Jim roverheadus thrombosis scatterbrainum jpappa01@interserv.com From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Tue Jan 3 21:15:48 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 21:15:48 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: The 1995 Defender 90 We finally got in the first 1995 model year Def 90 at the dealership and there are some detail changes... some better, some ?? The first unit in is black. Black a regular production color for 95 (limited run of 100 of them for 1994), replacing Arles Blue! No more blue (for now). Local dealership still has some blues in stock - if anyone dying for blue, let me know... The 1995 looks terrific with the new Bestop full tilt. Fits tight. No more snaps. Clear windows! Although no more alpine lights... too bad. Yes, the rear lights ARE round now! Wow. Really strange, but probably the looks will grow on me eventually. I finally got used to the square ones from the 110 and `94 Def90. Not at all same round ones as on euro-spec cars. Same layout as square lights. Neat little door *map* pockets. S`pose this could be fitted to earlier models... Improved (anything would have been improvement) rear speakers in somewhat larger baffles. Different head unit is now *CD-ready* for optional CD changer-powered subwoofer unit. New A-frame front brush bar now readily avail. Large diameter tube used. That's about it. one *aluminum* conniston green hardtop in stock but its already gone. Methinks that the black Defender 90 with the grey fiberglass hardtop installed and star alloys would make quite the striking looking land rover! See ya! Jim roverheadus dumbstrukus infatuatum jpappa01@interserv.com From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Tue Jan 3 21:33:21 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:33:21 -0800 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: The 1995 Defender 90 >Methinks that the black Defender 90 with the grey fiberglass hardtop installed >and star alloys would make quite the striking looking land rover! i saw one of this description recently (parks at a gym near my house). it was the first defender i've seen that made me consider getting rid of my own rover (if i had an extra $15K sitting around).... -jory From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jan 04 01:06:23 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 01:06:23 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: sacul (lucas backwards) Jimmy Patrick sez.... > Lucas is here. none ----snip--- > I think the place to start is with the little round switch that the key > goes in and that has the switch around the outside for the running lamps > and the original headlight switch. Sometimes when I turn off the key, the > motor goes on running, not like dieseling on but like it was never There was some discussion about something like this a while back. The keyswitch portion of the combined switch turns on/off battery voltage to the ignigtion, oil pressure light, charge light and a number of other circuits. Certainly, there may be a problem with the switch if you can't turn off the ignigtion. If the switch were to close *without* the key in the lock it would cause a battery drain BUT you would see the oil pressure and hopefully the charge lights on at the same time. Just like turning the key ON without starting the truck. > The headlamps are now on From William Caloccia Wed Jan 04 05:13:03 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 05:13:03 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded ------- Forwarded Message Date: 04 Jan 95 10:03:49 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Used Range Rover caveats? I gather you'll be buying your car in Texas, so I guess I can skip the part about where to look for rust and corrosion. One of our club members who makes a living with a non-licenced LR parts mail order business and also does some occasional used car dealings has these observations to make about used Range Rovers: The most frequent and costly damage in such vehicles are - sometimes substantial - damages in the drive train that can extend all the way from the front half-axle constant velocity bearings via propshaft joints to the gearbox itself, automatics being more susceptible than manuals. Diffs are rarely affected. There are three main reasons for such damages that can be found even in relatively new vehicles: Main cause is the wrong use (or abuse) of the central diff-lock. Range Rover owners, who are rarely off-roaders (would you believe), are notorious for hastely slamming into diff-lock as soon as it starts raining and the road gets a *bit* slippery, at freeway speeds, and they'll drive like this for hours. This habit obviously wreaks havoc on the drivetrain. Even off-road, unwise use of the diff-lock can be fatal. Given the brute power of the V8, if in 1st or 2nd low with a wide throttle opening and the diff locked, just one of the wheels is blocked for even for a second, the damage to the drivetrain is immediate. The next two causes are oil-related: RR-gearboxes, unlike those of the 'Series', *don't leak* and are sealed tight (incredible but true), _however_ they have and need two vents, one for the main box, the other for the transfer case. These are two thin plastic hoses that run from the top of the casings up front into the engine bay where they are suspended rather close to the exaust manifold. If by accident or negligence these vent hoses are torn out of their suspensions they will drop onto the manifold, melt and close up, the pressure in the gearboxes rises, and - pow! - out come the seals :-o , leading to oil loss. Rapid oil loss also occurs when the hand brake is adjusted too tight (a fault frequently perpetrated by garages), the RR is run with partially engaged hand brake (which you most likely won't notice with the power of the V8) and the hand brake drum becomes red hot to the extent that it melts down the rear transfer case seal. Since Range Rover owners, unlike the Series-folks, *never* crawl under their car regularly to check out the state of their 90-weight, such oil loss usually goes unnoticed, the vehicle is driven over extended periods with little or no oil in the gear box, and again the result is a severely damaged drivetrain. So, when you test drive a Range, close all windows, turn off radio, ventilation and air conditioning, and *listen*. In high ratio with disengaged diff-lock, the Range Rover gearbox should be absolutely silent. Any whining, rumbling or grinding is a warning sign. Next test, come to a stop, turn the steering to full lock, and drive off accelerating sharply. Does the car pull away smoothly, or do the front wheels behave irregularly like jumping or wobbling or making the steering wheel jerk? If so, there's something wound up in the front part of the drivetrain. Finally - this involves getting a bit dirty - get underneath, open the oil filler plugs of both main gearbox and transfer case and stick your finger in, feeling down into the casing. Your finger should come out all wet and shiny from clear red or amber - colored oil. If it comes out black and sticky - thanks. Also, don't forget to check the state of the brake pads; more likely than not they'll be completely down. Electronics: Usually no problem. Wish you luck... Stefan From Jimmy Patrick Wed Jan 4 10:10:18 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:10:18 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Re: sacul (lucas backwards) Mike, >Get the battery checked to begin with. Yes, you can get a hand-crank. Fits >through the hole in the bumper. Where can I get one of those cranks.... I'll start with the battery and then I will follow your advice. I can't remember if the oil lights were on or not after I threw the key switch. I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it is charging or not. The last time I drove it the meter was on -25 which is about as far as it can go from charging. The meter is a bit screwy though because sometimes it goes more positive when you turn on the dash light or the heater or... whatever, I would expect the meter to go more negative when you add more lights or whatever. It does have an alternator, not a dynamo. It may be some of the last bit you mentioned, about the elctrical genius rewiring the thing so as to confuse and befuddle me. AHHHHH Land-Rovers. I knew I wanted one of these for some reason. My co-workers believe it would make a great flower pot. Thanks for your help, Jimmy -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From hiner@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Greg Hiner) Wed Jan 4 10:06:57 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:06:57 -0600 From: hiner@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Greg Hiner) Subject: RoverWeb may need to move Though it is not final yet the RoverWeb may need to move to a new home. If somebody has got space I would be happy to ftp the whole set of files to them. Think about it and let me know if you are interested. The RoverWeb gets about 200 requests a day. It is running on a Macintosh right now. Best- Greg From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Jan 4 17:14:10 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:14:10 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Oil pressure problems... reply. On Tue, 3 Jan 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics > PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 > SUBJECT: Oil pressure problems... reply. > Greg Brown, [snip] > With (I forget exactly) around 40 psi at idle, that doesn't sound like a > oil pump problem. When your pressure drops as the angle of your vehicle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > the vehicle is at an angle, maybe yours are missing, or became > dislodged??? ad 3.: I had the pan of recently. There is a lateral plate inside with a hole to the rear where the pump tube is. But of course, it only withholds the oil if the oil is in the pan. (Yesterday my oil warning light went on when braking. I had brakelight trouble a couple of months ago and i thought i might have wired something wrong until i topped 2 l of oil. At least the warning light didn't flicker :-) ) > If it were me, I'd first check the oil level. If the dipstick reads > full, drain the oil and measure the quantity removed. If that's okay, > I'd drop the pan and look for a loose pick-up tube, or.... ??? > Anyone else have any suggestions? > "in" the oil at an angle. 3.) I've read about oil baffles within some Clean and check the pump/net/filter anyway. Wouldn't hurt. > Dave Brown (I like your last name!) '94 Discovery (for sale. :( ) Phoenix AZ > #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. > "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead sv/aurens velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From Russell Burns Wed Jan 4 8:25:47 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 8:25:47 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D-90 hardtop > Headliner eh, did that also help with the noise? I get quite the echo off all > that fiberglass when the radio is on. none The real reason for the headliner is that on those 0 F days the fiberglass is real cold next to my thinning hair. I think it helps with the noise also. The dynomat I plastered all over the interior body helped tremdously. I also noted that none of the R-Rovers or Discover owners out east would wave back. Russ 94 D-90 91 RANGE ROVER (which goes off road) From Mike Fredette Wed Jan 04 08:44:12 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 08:44:12 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: D-90 hardtop Russ, The dynomat I plastered all over the interior body helped tremdously. I also noted that none of the R-Rovers or Discover owners out east would wave back. I did the same thing, dynomat inside the doors, 1/4 inch accumat under the floormats and under the entire rear bed liner, and 1 inch foil lined dynomat under the hood. It made a huge difference. Yea, those Range Rover/Disco folk, they tend to forget where thier roots are. That or they just plain don't know that they are driving decendants of greatness. Rgds Mike Fredette D90 90 Range Rover County (wifes) From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Wed Jan 04 12:43:05 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 12:43:05 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Jimmy's Charging problem Jimmy writes: none Where can I get one of those cranks.... none 1st look behind your seats towards the bottom. It may be there (if it is, don't feel bad. My neigbor thought his was missing until I pointed it out. If not any LR parts supplier would have them. none I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it is charging or not. The last time I drove it the meter was on -25 which is about as far as it can go from charging. ... It does have an alternator, not a dynamo. none BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA with ammeter in the instrument cluster (amps/fuel), it is located at the lower left hand corner of the instrument panel. If you have a later IIA where the ammeter is an add on it is located at the bottom of the instrument cluster (fuel/temp). If you have a III, it is located at the bottom of the instrument cluster (fuel/temp). All Land Rovers have a charging light. If it is burned out/missing, your alternator/generator will not charge. The light should come on when you turn the key to indicate all is well, then go out once the engine is started and running (and charging). I'm not certain, but you might try to undo the instrument cluster, pull that bulb, then see if you can match it with another bulb in the system. It may have a match and get you going. Good Luck Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com (Sorry, I couldn't post you direct-my mail package eats the addresses once they've gone through the LRO list) From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Jan 4 18:39:48 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:39:48 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Jimmy's Charging problem [stuff snipped] On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, maloney wrote: > I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it > BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > bulb, then see if you can match it with another bulb in the system. It may > have a match and get you going. Mr Lucas (or one of his deciples) precision manufactured the sIII charge light so that it will fall away from the panel back into the wirepit when hitting a class 3 hole in the city tarmac. If you find it in there, bend the little teeth a bit away from the bulb and reinsert it. You can only do this a few times before the teeth break. If you glue it on, the bulb will most definitely go shortly after. As far as i remember (HA!) the bulb is similar to the instrument back light. FWIW sv/aurens velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Wed Jan 4 14:43:12 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 14:43:12 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Paul D. Guild wrote about connecting his ind leed on his alternator to ground and having an intermittent warning light for the charging system and so on. Paul: page 84.4 of the Series III manual and similar sections in the IIA manual show that the ind warning light is wired from the white circut (ignition) to the small lead on the alternator. disconnecting half the circut will naturally cause the warning light to come on because the ground completes the circut, again see manual. The way the circut works is very elementary Watson. When the ignition is switched on the battery has more voltage than the small lead on the alternator co the filament in the bulb glows as the electrons pass to the altermator and ground. When the engine is started the voltage at the alternator exceeds that of the battery so the electrons on longer flow to where there is least resistance and the light goes out. If the alternator is not putting out power, then the electrons will continue to flow and the bulb will glow. More power from alternator than in battery bulb no glow. More power, or rather voltage in battery than being produced by alternator then bulb glows. Glad you got your LR and nice talking with you in Nov. Wonder if Andree managed to sell that 109 SW with the blown 6 cyl for 5K. R&D From "Kelly Minnick" Wed Jan 4 19:16:29 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Stuff! Hi folks. Just thought I would respond to a couple of comments. Guess I will just start in order. All the above charging issues are correct. To overcome the power rating of your alternator would require about 400 watts. Don't know about you, but most quartz lights are only about 60 watts each. There are off-road driving lights that are over 300 watts each... I don't remember if the voltage reg. rectifier is the standard diode type or a selinium (sp?) like the old dirt bikes, but a bank of diodes went out in my SAAB and caused 1/3 of the power to go away. (3 phases rectified to DC). Also, I have had windings short internal that cut out about 1/2 the magnet wire. The alternator still put out power, but little. This can easily be checked by a shop, also (usually for free!). Used RRovers. My US '87 had leaking power steering unit and leaking power steering pump. This is NOT uncommon from the early RRovers I looked at. I got a good deal 'cause this scared the owner. Most well to do Rover owners do not change their oil every 3000-3500. They take them in at their scheduled changes every 8000 miles - what a crock. Most of them are so gunked up in the valve covers/heads and all the breather passages. I have also seen plenty with front automatic trans seal leaks and trans cooler line leaks where the hard lines meet the rubber lines up front. Most of these things can be fixed easily, but take time. If people would use the right fluids... Everything else is build pretty tough! Cams, intakes, exhausts... I have the capability to degree cams. As I just got done re-building my '73, I bought a new stock 2.25L cam ($65). I degreed this. ABP talked me into a 2.5L high-lift, long duration much better cam for $175 (actually bought it from Craddocks for $120). Degreed this too. DON'T be fooled, people. If I hadn't done this, of course I would have more power after spending twice the money (wouldn't I?)... NO MORE duration and only .010" more lift on the exhaust lobe (barely noticible). Porting your head will give you more power, but loss on low-speed torque. Large intake valves do the same. We need high velocity at low speed and low air drag at high speed. Now comes the 2 barrel carb. The large throat Rochester works well at freeway, but gives up low speed grunt. My bud just bought a 2.5L from the UK that had a 24/28mm bolted to it. Don't know if this was stock. Works great except the cold weather thing. The K&N filter thing is great except out here in the desert where there is lots of very fine sand/dust. On long trips, my buds have to change their filters while I just keep running! No harm in opening up the exhaust system, though! Sorry about the stolen car parts - very bad. De-coking. have even seen guys dump ATF at high speed into their carbs. WE did tear the motor down later. Boy was it clean. Even unstuck his rings for a while. Any respectible shop can insert hardened seats and do a head job. Unless you've been swayed that only a Rover person can work on a Rover... Little hard to finish painting my rear box covered with 4" of snow! This is Southern California where we never get more than 4" of rain in a year! Later (sorry, can't paint the Rover, so I'm bored) Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "T.F. Mills" Thu Jan 5 00:25:08 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:25:08 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: ruta maya? happy new year all! quick question: did LROI publish a piece on the Ruta Maya Disco Expedition? If so, would somebody kindly post full bibliographic details? (author, title of article, issue number, date, page numbers). Mucias gracias. to all who have sent me private messages: please hang on (but go ahead and breathe) -- I've got some catching up to do. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA --------------------- From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jan 5 09:47:23 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:47:23 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Other movie trivia > year Rover is it in the movie. Is that particular rover Similarly, in Roxanne (the Steve Martin film) he as a 109 - is it an SII? Where was the film shot and who's was the 109? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From "Mr T.stevenson" Thu Jan 5 10:24:46 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:24:46 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: LR hand crank starter I thought I might add my twa penn'th regarding hand cranks for the Land Rover. You should be able to get one second hand from a LR scrappie; they normally part with them for less than a fiver. The other useful crank accessory you sometimes come across is a metal funnel which fits over the hand crank starter dog on the crankshaft pulley. This is particularly useful, since you can then engage the handle with the dog without scrabbling about under the vehicle. Good luck with your new vehicle & Happy New Year. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Jimmy Patrick Thu Jan 5 07:35:25 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:35:25 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: My charging problems (long) Bill, Thanks for your input. >1st look behind your seats towards the bottom. It may be there (if it is, >don't feel bad. My neigbor thought his was missing until I pointed it out. >If not any LR parts supplier would have them. I will take a look for it but I haven't seen it. I think I will need one until I get this sorted. But I'm sure she'll be afraid of the dark if I don't sort it out soon. This weekend will be my first real chance to sort it out. >>I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it >>is charging or not. >BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA >with ammeter in the instrument cluster (amps/fuel), it is located at the lower [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >(fuel/temp). If you have a III, it is located at the bottom of the instrument >cluster (fuel/temp). >All Land Rovers have a charging light. If it is burned out/missing, your >alternator/generator will not charge. The light should come on when you turn >the key to indicate all is well, then go out once the engine is started and >running (and charging). I lied. I lied. I do have a charge light. or at least a light that behaves like one. It is located right in the center of the dash. I have a 1960 Series II so I don't know if that is the correct location for it or not. I am still relying on the Haynes manual, and it doesn't show my dash. My light behaves like you mentioned above. Robert said: >The way the circut works is very elementary Watson. When >the ignition is switched on the battery has more voltage than [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >from alternator than in battery bulb no glow. More power, >or rather voltage in battery than being produced by alternator >then bulb glows. So I assume that I should be charging. If me wires are set up correctly. Maybe my battery will not hold it. It is only about 3 months old, but... When I took it in to have it tested, they said it was too flat to test. I charged it up last night so maybe I can have it tested this weekend. People at work don't understand me, but I love my Land-Rover. Cheers. Thanks to all for the help. Jimmy I have two addresses: jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk or jimmyp@netcom.com -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Jimmy Patrick Thu Jan 5 09:22:35 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:22:35 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Weber 34ich Hi all. Is there a manual for the Weber 34 ich carb available? Where would I get one? (the manual that is) Maybe someone here in the UK has a spare manual or one I can look at??? Boy these newbies have all the questions don't they. Thanks in advance. Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk jimmyp@netcom.com -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Mike Rooth Thu Jan 5 16:12:30 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 16:12:30 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Expansion! Just heard on the TV news.Land Rover have applied to Solihull Council for planning permission for a new factory,in addition to what they already have.The new plant is to build diesel engines. Cant keep a good one down! Cheers Mike Rooth From Brad Krohn Thu Jan 5 10:15:03 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 10:15:03 PST From: Brad Krohn Subject: Charging Problems and Land Rover sighting Text item: Text_1 I, too, have been having vexing charging and/or starting problems -- and noted that the Lucas troubleshooting guide specifically says that just because the "charging/ignition" light goes out does NOT mean the system is charging correctly. BTW, Land Rover sighted in the latest issue of PC Magazine. Big ad on Pages 242-243 for SuperBase, with an '88 perched looking down over some nasty terrain. ======================================================================= "ROVER? WHO DRIVES IT?" Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com "That would be telling." -The Prisoner '69 IIA 88" Bug-Eye ======================================================================= From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 5 13:17:12 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:17:12 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Eugene, OR Looking for a Zen Rover mechanic in Eugene, Oregon. Does anyone have suggestions? I just gave my '70 IIa with 1/3 million miles to my son at U of O. From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 5 13:14:25 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:14:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Help From Cliff Enz Thu Jan 5 18:25:33 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:25:33 -0500 (EST) From: Cliff Enz Subject: Land rover list Subscribe land rover Cliff Enz call me at (703) 519 - 0654 or E-mail me at cliffenz@dgs.dgsys.com I BUY HOUSES! I LOAN MONEY!! From Pierce Reid 05 95 Jan EST 1918 Date: 05 Jan 95 18:49:06 EST From: Pierce Reid Subject: Serial Number Decode? Howdy: Is anyone familiar with the serial number codes for Series 1 Land Rovers. My dad just bought a c. 1953 Series 1 fire engine to restore. Serial number is 111800065. That is the chassis number, not the engine number. Can anyone decode this? Does it mean anything? Thanks, R. P. Reid '62 IIa Military -- The Sgt Major. ** When I die I want to go quietly in ** my sleep like my grandfather -- not ** kicking and screaming like his passengers From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Jan 5 19:09:56 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 19:09:56 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: the bust Nigel had a 9am appointment yesterday at the local service station for his (slightly overdue) annual NYS inspection. Having spent a chunk of tuesday fixing the horn button and ye'Ol Lucas wipers (repaired a coil wrapping, cleaned brushes and armature, general lube), and the day before scraping rust and chunks of lightbulb out of rotted out sidelights (an oxymoron-they're neither), then tracking down and installing a replacement socket for the same, I , his humble servant, just wasn't in the mood for surprises. Afterall, *everything* worked.....main and dips, sidelights, indicators (self-cancelling, no less), brakelights, brakes even, horn. All the tie rod ends are new, got a fresh railco bushes and bearings in each swivel, a well-adjusted steering box, brake lines are fine, frame even better, fresh springs, shocks and tyres ok. What else could you want? (Thankfully, there's no emissions here yet, but it starts just south, towards NY, across the county line.) I awoke to the realization that there was one ailment that could drop the red flag....no emergency brake. It startled me a bit as I realized they'd be putting Nige up on the rack and they'd likely try the handbrake first thing as they drove him into the bay. It wouldn't work. It hadn't since mid summer. What can I say? I've gotten plenty used to parking against curbs, rocks, logs, mazdas, and never leaving Nigel alone where he can hurt himself, watching him for a bit when I do (STAY.STAYNige.Gooo-boy.) Never did trust that handbrake when it did work, anyway...... Tea in hand I ventured unto the frigid morning and pondered my circumstance. Nige is now my only means of transpo, Gretchen (the other car) having been declared a total after clashing with a right-laner on the shoulder as we negotiated a otherwise legal and safe left turn into a lot we never quite made it into (his fault, I collected, but am out the car nonetheless). Nige NEEDS to be legal as I need to get to work. He can do it. A last minute attempt with WD40 and relateds, an implement of destruction, and vigorous application of each proved fruitless. Time was clicking down...three minutes to go...if we missed out chance into the bay our whole day could be shot waiting...we went for it. Speeding down the road I passed my old school (K thru 8, class of '72) and it was open for one of the first days since the holidays. I smiled and drifted off briefly as I reflected on those long lost days in class, with snow in the forecast and a dusting on the playground, eyes cast out the window longing for the storm that could send us sledding. I snapped out of it as I spotted the Sherrif lean forward and lock the radar on my reading as he rounded the corner at me. Shit. I glanced down and saw the speedo drift past 40....in a "school zone 30"....and looked up in the rear view to see the cop hang a tight left into the school lot. Downshift, fly right past the service station we had the appointment at, then scope and plan for evasive manuevers. My best shot-a quick left behind the post office-was blocked by oncoming traffic, and by the time I made it to my next best I'd been spotted, and soon after dragged in for the kill. Somehow I just can't outrun cops the way I used to..... Wasn't long before the overdue inspection revealed itself, but that was the least of my problems, according to the Sherrif. "47 in a 30, in a school zone, and The Judge don't like that", he said, shrugging off the no inspection in understanding of my plea that all the local stations had been out of stickers throughout December. "A 3 pointer with a $125 fine." I began to wish I'd of stayed home to fix the handbrake. I pled and moaned about the inaccuracy of a 30 year old guage, 16" rims with high profile tyres, and gave the local boy story....."gheeze, they didn't have school so soon after the holidays when I went there"...I swallowed my pride, I sold my soul, I kissed his ass. He went back to car to look me up, nice calm doggie in the rear seat. I grabbed my mug 'o tea and went on back to chum up, being careful not to wake the mutt as he rested in the morning sun. The cop wrote me a ticket for the no inspection and let me slide on the speeding, and I never thought I'd be so happy to get a point-free $85 fine. For a moment I relished in the concept that if I'd gotten an inspection in December like I was supposed to do I'd have gotten the speeding ticket...but then I realized the obvious...I'd of still been in bed. The cop and his dog made it back to the service station before us. He was inside on the phone waiting to observe the interaction between myself and the owner. Did I have the appointment or had I lied when I said I did? (I had, afterall, virtually admitted to a failure to comply, in intent at least, when earlier disclosing I passed the station we had the appointment at in a vain attempt to get away.) Sure I did, but of course, nobody wrote it down. An uneasy few seconds later it became a "just give us about 15 minutes", soon after becoming a "why not come back in 30-45?" I went back home and had another cup of tea. Back at the station, I had to give the usual instructions for starting, lights, and horn. They pulled him in. "Got any emergency brake on this thing?" "Oh yeah, lemme show you....er...damned thing always freezes up in cold weather....it works, actually-just doesn't stay on....here, you hold it on and I'll go underneath with this implement and knock the ratchet into position". He wasn't buying it..."Gotta have an emergency brake to pass inspection....let's move on"... Nigel did just fine on all the other queries and in the course of the inspection we talked rovers, the place having serviced a few local ones recently, and Nigel got a chance to show off his Smith's shinburner to questions of "does it have heat-ah, doesn't need heat to pass inspection, but just curious" By then the guy was suitably impressed and pretended to have forgotten all about the handbrake. He slapped a shiny new sticker to the windshield and got his hefty tip. Much relieved yet humbled, I returned home to enjoy the day but just couldn't get comfortable until after dismantling, cleaning, and lubing the handbrake assembly. Works fine now. Had I done it earlier that morning I'd of saved 85 bucks. cheers all, rd/nigel From Steve Firth Fri Jan 6 01:36:37 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:36:37 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: subscribe subscribe ............................................................................. Firth Consulting Stephen Firth Support Services steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk CIS: 100023,3414 for Biotechnology From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Thu Jan 5 18:02:19 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 18:02:19 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Vancouver LROwner I've been listening for a couple weeks now and it's time to show my face! I'm Gordon Rea from Vancouver, British Columbia,Canada. I'm a currently frustrated (yes I have a charging problem too !)owner of a very experianced '65 SIIa 88, Safari 2.25l (w overdrive). I've had this beast for 3 years now and I have to admit I like driving this thing more than I like working on it. The previous owner obviously had the same attitude. Most of the origional wiring has rotted away and has been patched together with short pieces of whatever wire was at hand. The generator was replaced by and altinator ( A Delco I think ). Both fuel tanks also leak ( I bought a third but it leaks also) and I lost the locking plate to my left front hub last weekend. But I'm still in love! ( however I sometimes miss the '64 Sunbeam Alpine I had to leave when this thing came into my life). Q: I have already broken and axle and destroyed a differential and was wondering if 16" wheels would put additional strain on the axel. Are 16" rims "stock" on 88s ? ( The LR had 15" when I bought it ) gord From "Walter C. Swain" Thu Jan 5 22:58:00 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:58:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Serial Number Decode? On January 5, Pierce Reid wrote: > Howdy: > Is anyone familiar with the serial number codes for Series 1 Land Rovers. My [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > 111800065. That is the chassis number, not the engine number. > Can anyone decode this? Does it mean anything? What is the wheelbase on this fire engine? Where did it come from? Is it RHD or LHD? What engine does it have in it now, and is it supposed to be original? Etc, etc? According to a list put together by James Taylor (not THAT James Taylor, the other one that writes about Land Rovers), in 1993, the 1118xxxxx number is supposed to be assigned to Land-Rovers built in 1958, which is a fair distance from c. 1953, except maybe on a geologic time scale. I'm not sure that I'd want to put too much of value on that, although #65 would make it a very early 1958 (maybe). Hopefully somebody out there will have more and better information on the numbering system. Meanwhile, how about some more info on this vintage beast? Walt Swain Davis, CA 1967 109 SW (on Saturday if all goes well) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Jan 06 02:24:59 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 02:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Weber 34ich Jimmy... You *might* be able to find a Haynes manual that covers Weber carbs... They also publish a very good manual for Land Rovers. The only address I have is: Haynes Publishing Group Sparkford Yeovil Sumerset England Good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Jan 06 09:39:23 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 09:39:23 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: The Return of the Prince Bollocks! No sooner does someone mention alternator woes, than *mine* starts acting up! Puts out 13.8 volts for the first several minutes, then drops off to 12 or so...."could be short brushes...could be the regulator" said the auto electric shop. Oh well, at least I can't blame it on Nigel this time! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Jody Allan Willoughby Fri Jan 6 10:18:12 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: Jody Allan Willoughby Subject: fan belt what is the correct belt size (width&length) for my 1956 `86' side exhaust valve 2-litre engine jody willoughby From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Jan 06 11:05:36 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:05:36 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: "A good day's work...." Jimmy Patrick wrote: >When I took it in to have it tested, they said it was too flat to test.... AHA! So *you're* to blame! ;-> No sooner does someone mention a malady than it spreads through the 'Net like a virus! I'll bet the flat battery is preventing the dynamo from charging. It doesn't really matter...both alternator and generator need some small excitation of the field to charge. If you can get it started (hand crank, jump start or pop the clutch) try my lantern battery trick - hook the positive 6 volt lead to the field wire and the neg terminal to the case...assuming of course that you are negative ground! In trying to remedy *my* alternator problem, I dismounted it last night and plugged the on-board trickle charger in to boost the battery which had dropped a bit in electrolyte specific gravity. I got inside and turned the key to bring the instruments (and especially the voltmeter) on-line to see if the charger was puttin' out. Then I noticed that the charge light was off...that was to be expected...the leads were swinging free at that point. Several articles (including one in the RN newsletter) have stated that if the indicator bulb is burned out, the alternator won't charge, as if the current is somehow flowing *from* the alternator *through* the bulb. Then it occurred to me, the necessary excitation voltage is flowing through the bulb on the way to the alternator, because once up to speed, alternators are self-exciting. Eureka! Maybe Lucas electrics *are* just common sense like Mike said! Then again.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From John Hong/C/HQ/3Com 5 95 Jan EDT 1921 Date: 5 Jan 95 21:23:46 EDT From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Subject: No Thanks, I like it this way. HA HA HA So I'm pulling outta my spot in the hardware store parking lot (after fulfilling my life long ambition to get 1/8 npt caps and plugs for my grease guns so I can carry the various hoses, fittings and bodies separately and not worry about getting grit in the grease!) and this guy cruising the lot says " Hey, you looking for some body work for your jeep..." Now I am nowhere near as sensitive to being called "Jeep" owner like a certain owsego-based list member is but the thought bubble "hmmm...should I give this guy a smart ass remark?" did flash up. Instead I said, "No thanks, I like it this way". Actually made my day! Some of you folks have seen my rover and I just sent New Year's photo cards of me and the one I love to Dixon, Grice (with club dues!) Pappas and Maloney (cause he is one funny guy - strange and haha) Photo actually made it look a little shiny (grrr) but you can see my greasy finger prints on the bottom edges of the body where I pull myself out from underneath. (yeah!) Anybody who wants to trade photos of rovers and self, email me (not the list) your SNAIL mail address. (john_hong@3mail.3com.com for the next month - jhong@haiku.com after that ) International addresses are particularly welcome! So I got an IBEX info packet a few weeks ago - I like the way these vehicles look - I wasn't really sure if the photos were of the just discontinued model or the new one - I'll check again. I second Jory's comment about the rear overhang on the short wheel base version - it looks like 2-3 inches! Rear tire and then the body goes straight up! I'm pretty sure I was quoted about 4-5 month delivery time from placement of order anybody else get a quote? This is kinda puts one of these out of the running for me because I need a 2nd rover kinda quick so I can frameup my '73 '88. If anybody knows of a reasonable reliable 109 (rough appearance is obviously not an issue, kind of a plus actually!) on the US left coast, I'd appreciate the lead! When I do the frameup, converting to coil springs would be nice...I don't mean for anyone to go into great detail answering these questions below but short "no way or yes or yes with a lot of work answers would be appreciated. To put a 88 body on a 90 frame: 1. How come you never see ads for 90 frames? 2. Can you reuse the diffs in the coil sprung axle housings? 3. Can you reuse the tranny and transfer case? 4. What is the best way to handle the length difference? Does it really look wierd? Does it affect wheel well clearance. Is there a width diff as well? Anybody use one of the '88 coil sprung conversion frames? Arrow services for instance? Does anyone have HP/torque stats for the Perkins 4-203 diesel? I've got stats for the 4-182. Can you assume this is a larger engine? What country is Perkins in? They seem to also have a popular marine diesel line. Is it just me or are there all of a sudden several ads for the GM 6.2 liter diesel in LRO. Anyone have any opinions on this engine? Price? John "Tdi? GM? Perkins?" Hong From Malcolm956@aol.com Fri Jan 6 13:21:19 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:21:19 -0500 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Subject: The electrical flower pot My '65 88" IIA came from the factory with a positive earth, but when one of the previous owners converted it to a GE Delco alternator, it became a negative ground. It turns out that when you ground the only wire to the back of the alternator, everything dies. I discovered this fact one very late one dark night, five miles from home on a deserted dirt road. The alternator bracket came loose and in trying to retighten it, I grounded the connection. Nothing. Anywhere. Well, the starter turned, but no lights, ignition or anything else. After a pleasant walk home I rousted my wife out of bed and we went back to tow the Beastie home. Fortunately it was very late and nobody saw it chained ignominiously to the rear bumper of the Oldsmobile. Next day I re-drew the manual's wiring diagram in order to show electrical circuits, rather than the geography of the wires. It turned out that the first item in the electrical line (other than the starter) is the ammeter and no electricity whatever went past it. Under the right conditions it appears that the ammeter can serve as an expensive fuse. I will replace it one day, but at the moment I have by-passed it. The ammeter connections are the push-on type and a conventional 15 to 20 amp, two prong fuse makes a great by-pass. If you remove the fuse and replace the leads on the ammeter, you have the world's greatest anti-theft device. My charge, oil and choke warning lights do not drop forward into the dash on Richter scale potholes, rather they fall aft, into the car. This makes them easier to replace. Currently the Beastie is running poorly as it badly wants new valves. However it runs well enough for the occasional trip to fetch firewood from my local friendly woodsman. In listing the various capacities of a SWB Land Rover, I would include that the back will comfortably hold one third of a cord of fire wood, without exceeding the height of the back front seat or lowering the tailgate. Until I get valves, my LR is a quasi-mobile-under-cover woodpile. "QUMUC?" Woodpile, flower pot, whatever, the Land Rover is truly versatile. Malcolm From Malcolm956@aol.com Fri Jan 6 13:20:58 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:20:58 -0500 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Subject: LRO wannabes It is interesting how many people ask about the advisability of owning a Land Rover. The answer is NO. When they ask that question, it brings to mind the old line that if you have to ask how much it costs to run a yacht you can't afford one. It is difficult to convey to a would-be owner the fact that the Land Rover has raised the usual natural perversity of inanimate objects from the mundane to an art form. F'rinstance: The gasket between the intake and exhaust manifolds blew. However, the Beastie ran OK and for quite a while I tolerated a low level of carbon monoxide poisoning. Eventually I tried tightening the nuts to see if that would cure the leak. That stripped the stud in the manifold. OK, time to do it right. Sent for new intake/exhaust and manifold gaskets. Taking everything apart was more of a chore than anticipated as, strange but true, the intake manifold was pinched between the outer parts of the exhaust manifold. A tap was run into various stud holes, new studs used as required and the whole thing put back together. I fired it up and it ran quietly. A sewing machine came to mind. What, you ask, is so perverse about that? With some things still left undone (neither the hood prop nor the air cleaner were hooked up) I thought I would give it a quick run to see if the Beastie appreciated my efforts. Ran good. Pop the hood, tighten everything up - but wait - the hood latch won't work. Well, that required about two hours of farting around, loosening, tightening, lubricating, swearing. When the latch finally decided that my patience was wearing thin, it decided to work again. Like new. Never did figure if anything I did helped it. Like I say, an art form. From Jon Humphrey Fri Jan 6 14:21:38 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:21:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: The Return of the Prince Sandy, As I asscend my hill every night and I watch the headlights flicker and dance their paultry beams upon the new fallen snow, I am reminded of "HIS" presence. I know he lurks just outside the capabilities of my meager eyesight. But I know "HE" is there. Sleep, Sleep, sweet Prince, as soon the sun shall rise from the East, and I can move about this planet in less mortal fear than during the hours of the mystical darkness. Off to say me prayers Hope it ain't contagious Jon From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Jan 06 19:56:06 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:56:06 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Bezels & BS In the past while thumbing through Land Rover books and photo albums of rallys past, I've noticed that certain IIAs had a more businesslike (and more attrative to myself) look about them, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was until now. On page 156 of the December LRO there is an article about a IIA Carawagon. It has some good detail photos of the front end (headlamps in the breakfast) and shows FLUSH headlamp bezels. THAT was what looked so neat! I looked it up in the IIA parts book and they are listed only for the European Rovers. I think it looks neater than with the chrome bezels sticking out, but I have a question for anyone who has had experience with the flush assemblies or both flush and sticking out. It seems from the parts book that there is no headlamp bucket with this installation, does this lead to problems with the back of the lamp exposed? Will this fit directly into a later US IIA with buckets and lamps that stick out? Are there any disadvantages aside from slightly restricted lighting with these assemblies? On another note, I just got the latest Harbor Freight tool catalog, and Mike Lokodice was looking for an engine stand. They have on sale: PN Part Price 04060-1CDB 750lb Engine stand $39.99 03163-5CDA 600lb Hand truck $34.99 05937-3CDA 2" X 20' 18,000lb Nylon tow strap $14.99 30532-2CDA Blitz 5 Gal Jerry can $19.99 30533-1CDA Metal Jerry can holder $ 9.99 04842-0CDC Air Impact Hammer $12.99 05917-3CDA Standard Brushes $ 2.49 The tow strap I got for Christmas to replace the one I broke attempting to recover Ben Smith's 88 from what Dixon referrs to as "a mud puddle":-). The impact hammer is the best thing since sliced bread in terms of removing stuck exhaust systems, and the Standard brushes are 3 wire toothbrushes- probably the most used items in my tool box- absolutely indespensible. Their number is 1-800-423-2567 or 805-444-3353, and if the total of your order is $50 or more, the shipping (US) is free. Mike, The stand and a new tow strap would get you over the $50 min. The hand truck would come in handy too to horse your block around (or to horse your SO out the door :-). Enough baloney for now maloney@wings.attmail.com From William Caloccia Fri Jan 06 21:17:53 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 21:17:53 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded message For quicker delivery, check that the To: address of your reply is lro@team.net or land-rover-owner@team.net messages sent to other addresses (*-owner or *-request) may experience an unpredictable delay. ------- Forwarded Message From William Caloccia Fri Jan 06 21:23:44 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 21:23:44 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded message ------- Forwarded Message From William Caloccia Fri Jan 06 21:32:09 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 21:32:09 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded message ------- Forwarded Message From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jan 6 22:16:34 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 22:16:34 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Yakima.revisited Sorry folks, I think this is an oldie...I saw it once, but now that it's come up again I got a burning question... >>>Begin clip >>I bought myself a Yakima adapter for bolting the rack to the tropical roof. I know I could easily remove the sunsheet but would rather keep it. ...... Any ideas? anyone done it?<< Well I have a Yakima rack for my 72 88' with a tropical roof. The main problem I had was getting towers tall enough (and vertical) enough to clear the sheet metal on the sides. From the gutter, you need nine vertical inches with almost no inward lean. I purchased "tower extensions" from Atlantic-British. These are essentially just aluminum spacers which fit between the gutter brackets and the cross-bar attachment. The rack now clears (barely) the tropical roof. With the canoe and two bicycles mounted and a severe head wind on a rough road the rack DOES contact the aluminum. Not ideal but certainly workable. I visited the Yakima works in Arcata California a few years ago a demonstrated the problems with Land Rover hard tops. They were intrigued but seemed disinclined to address "such a limited market". >>>end Clip I also have a Yakima rack. I think it is the IA with tower extensions, BUT it contacts the sides of the top (regular hardtop, no heatshield) no matter what I do. Were the tower extensions you got at AB maFrom LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Jan 07 14:35:27 1995 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 14:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Bezels & BS Maloney ponders bezels... > that there is no headlamp bucket with this installation, does this > lead to problems with the back of the lamp exposed? Will this fit [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > there any disadvantages aside from slightly restricted lighting with > these assemblies? Sticking out?? exposed??? could have a lot of fun with this, Bill... Don't think the "exposed" wiring shoild be much of a problem since it is up high in front of the radiator. Depends on how much muck you go through. Do you know if these assemblies mount in the same holes??? > On another note, I just got the latest Harbor Freight tool catalog, and > Mike Lokodice was looking for an engine stand. They have on sale: > directly into a later US IIA with buckets and lamps that stick out? Are Thanks, Bill.. Once I catch up from Christmas, I might order one. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From John Brabyn Sat Jan 7 11:46:47 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: D-90 hardtop On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Mike Fredette wrote: > Yea, those Range Rover/Disco folk, they tend to forget where thier roots > are. That or they just plain don't know that they are driving decendants of > greatness. They ARE driving greatness -- as well as descendents of greatness!! I guess it's true most of them don't recognize their ancestors, however! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "Kelly Minnick" Sat Jan 7 18:16:49 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:16:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Which one? RE: What to buy? Looking for either a '89-'91 RR or '94 Disco. Which would be better to own? The used Disco's are still pretty $$$ (about $33K for a 'D' with 3.5K - 9K miles). A RR is about $16K to $24K. Have a family of 4 (two boys 10 & 11) and go out 4WD just about every week-end (except when I do total frame-ups). Rear door Vs tail gates... ABS, alarm, external spare... Unsure... I have owened a '87 RR. Loved it. Situation forced sale...(sadly). What about it Disco owners??? Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari (almost - need good weather to paint back 1/2) Ridgecrest, CA From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 07 95 Jan EST 1921 Date: 07 Jan 95 21:28:48 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: recent digest's previously I have routed my wanderings on the delights of lr ownership to the digest via Bill C. as a novice computer player I am still hesitant with the black box. herewith a few snippets arising from the last 2 or 3 digests:- John Hong writes about 88 bodies on 90 chassis, etc there are now several sources of 90 chassis in the U.K. some legitimate and some illegitemate. the Arrow sevices chassis is made about 30 miles from where I lived until about 3 months ago when I fled the shores of Landroverville to live in sunny NY. they are quite well made and relatively simple to use in modifying a leafsprung motor to coil, of course you need all the other parts as well, take care in buying them in single items, it works out expensive , better to buy a RR rolling chassis for around 3 or 400 pounds ( 450 to 600 $) more expensive if you want the 3.54 differentials which fetch 150 $ in the UK. the 88 rear body is shorter than the 88, s/h prices in the UK for a 90 body are around 600$. of course thetops are also shorter, the differentials in 88's and 90's are interchangable but the ratio's are different ser 2 and 3's have 4.7 to 1 ratio. the diff's from 90's ,RR's and 110 fronts are also interchangable but 3.54 ratio. which is too high for a 2.25 with normal 4 speed gearbox. whilst on the subject of diff's Gordon Rea asks about wheel sizes and diff damage. The differential in the lr was first used in a rover car in the late forties, the first lr's had engine power of less than 50hp. over the years the power has been boosted to 77 hp for a 2.25 petrol and the weight has increased significantly, consequently the diff and the half shafts are not really strong enough for the application, even on motors which are well looked after stress fatigue will eventually break the parts. the uk lr's are issued as standard with 16 wheels and tyres, the swb with 6.00 or 6.50 tyres and the 109 with the larger 7.50 tyres these are around 33 in diameter and nort recommended by lr for fitment to a 88 because of the bodyy clearance, however the use of 7.50 tyres is common, particularly for offroading where the ground clearance is needed. the tyre dia is more important the the wheel dia for the loading of the transmission. aggressive tread tyres also load up thesystem in addition to increasing the fuel consumption and are thereforee to be avoided for normal road use. chassis number 111800065 is a 1958 UK rhd 88 wheel base petrol. a 1953 model would have a serial number 36100001, the figure 3 rep. 1953, the style which was used up till 1955. it is easy to check whether the number is appropriate since a 53 would have an 80 " wheelbase. series 2A's were fitted with flush headlight mounting in the years 67 and 68, immediately before the lights were moved into the wings in 1969. The complete front panel would need to be changed to fit this type of light, this change heralded the fitting of sealed beam units instead of the older type with separate bulbs, the military kept the old style. the charging saga. a 1960 lr would have been fitted with a positive earth system and a dynamo. Max output of around 20 amps. the ammeter fitted as standard would be rated for and wired to this system. an alternator will easily put out 40 amps, some much higher. the std ammeter will not tolerate this output and usually melts down. another word of warning, many alternators have a small drive pulley which results in high speed and a low belt wrap angle, thus making belt slip very easy under load. Bill Leacock limey in exile. 1967 109 ex military and approx 100 toy lr,s and 40 RR's From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Jan 8 03:17:23 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 03:17:23 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Mail Hosts Changed Hi Folks, Due to some changes forecast for the primary mail server, the whole of the Land Rover Owner mailing list and digest has been re-home to originate from the host which is doing the digesting - Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com. Thus, all your messages will pass through the UK (then back to the states, then...) A positive side effect is that now Majordomo knows about both lists and can deal with them (however Majordomo won't add anyone to the real-time list, he can do deletes and other commands). >>>> lists Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com serves the following lists: lro-digest Land Rover Owner Digest Mailing List (<- this one!) land-rover-owner Land Rover Owner (real-time,restricted admission) graflex Graphic and Graflex Camera FAQ (Do-> index graflex) Use the 'info ' command to get more information about a specific list. Those of you who get one mailing a day, refer to the list as 'lro-digest' when talking to Majordomo, while the real-time folks would ask Majordomo about 'land-rover-owner' At the present time everybody should still send contributions to 'land-rover-owner@team.net' or 'lro@team.net', just as before. This will be moved from transfer.stratus.com to chunnel.uk.stratus.com in a couple days, but hopefully that shouldn't affect anyone. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From "Kathryn Krages [remote]" Sat Jan 07 22:46:20 1995 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 22:46:20 -0800 From: "Kathryn Krages [remote]" Subject: Looking for Floorboard Seals for '57 LR 88 My husband Bert has a '57 Land Rover 88 that he is restoring (it's only been 16 months so far). He is looking for floorboard seals for the brake and clutch pedals. He has tried the usual Land Rover suppliers in the US (like Rovers North, British Atlantic, etc.) but they don't carry them. Any suggestions on where he can find those? A Land Rover person here in Portland suggested he could obtain the seals from John Craddock in the UK but Bert doesn't know how he would place an order with them. Any information on how to do that? Thanks for the help. --Kathryn Krages krages@ohsu.edu From "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jan EST 1902 Date: 08 Jan 95 02:28:35 EST From: "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> Subject: Hello? Anyone there? I heard about this address on a BBS in Seattle, but I'm not sure what the format is. I'm a LR owner ('69 88 II-A), and am interested in sources and encouragement in making mine a more "mobile" auto! Let me know how to further get in touch. Thank you, Alan Murphy From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Jan 08 03:23:37 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 03:23:37 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Floorboard Seals for '57 Kathryn... ONLY 16 months!! :) How much of this has been on the kitchen table?? OK... easy to get in touch with Craddock or any other supplier in the UK. Just pick up the phone and dial! Keep in mind the time differance between the US and the UK. You probably may want to call when it's morning in the UK otherwise the lines may be busy. A good alternative is to fax a request... quite a bit cheaper too. I prefer to fax since I can fax out from my PC at home. Phone numbers... (remember to add the country code -044- before the phone number...) I've included a few others... John Craddock - voice 0543 577207 or 0543 505408 fax 0543 504818 A.E.W.Paddock - voice 0629 584499 fax 0629 584498 Merseyside - voice 0514 868363 or 0514 860066 fax 0514 865986 You can pay with plastic.. Usually Visa or M/C, maybe American Express. You're billed in British pounds but the credit card company converts that to US dollars.. hopefully at a good rate! They will generally ship by air which isn't *too* expensive for light items and only takes about a week. Surface shipments are a little less expensive but take a lot longer. Some suppliers may send you a catalog on request.. Good luck with it Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jan EST 1909 Date: 08 Jan 95 09:07:04 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: info Alan asks about auto conversions. Ian Ashcroft tel 011 44 582 76101 does a transfer box conversion which makes the gearbox change for auto simpler headlight bezels, the flush type is designed to use with sealed beam units on which the steel rims fit directly to the panel, steel bowls are not used since the rear is protected ! by the rad. wiring is clipped to the underside of the top plate and is also protected. the panels are interchangable , but the light units are not. the flush type have a smaller hole and holes to suit the light unit. an enthusiast could modify the old type by welding in an adapter plate, regards Bill Leacock. 67 109. limey in exile. From Jimmy Patrick Sun Jan 8 16:36:16 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 16:36:16 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Whoa! I'm not worthy! Maloney, I am not worthy. A while back when I started this whole electrical problem, situation, virus, you said: >BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA >with ammeter in the instrument cluster (amps/fuel), it is located at the lower [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >the key to indicate all is well, then go out once the engine is started and >running (and charging). And then I said something like "I lied. I lied, I DO have a charging lamp." Well, I did not have a charging lamp and thus there was no "tickle" for the alternator to begin charging. You called the problem sight unseen with your first guess. Wow. Now I have rigged up a charging light and banished the evil prince to "1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA." Sorry about that Sandy. Now the question is, should I unleash another problem on to the net. If I bring it up will everyone else come down with the same problem?? Oh heck. Here goes. When I turn off the ignition switch, the motor wants to continue to go. I guess the LR is so happy to be working that it never wants to stop again (don't I wish). So at first I thought it might be part of the electrical problem, i.e. some kind of short in the switch. But it appears that the switch works, the ammeter goes flat and the charging light goes (stays) out. But the engine keeps on running. Also I got the Haynes manual on the weber carbs that said it covered the ICH but it turns out to cover the 32ich. Is this carb similar to the 34ich?? Sandy, If you don't let your Land-Rover read the digest, it won't get any bad ideas about imitating my Land-Rover. Keep all digests away from the prying eyes. Thanks to all for the help with the electrical problems. Oh, yeah. I had to join the AA at the roadside because she decided to die on the shoulder last night. At least she died right by an SOS box. The mechanic was great and helped me rig up an alternator tickler just until I got home to put in a lamp. We have had polls on names of land-rovers, names of the list, celebrity rovers, movies with rovers, etc. Here is the question i would like to ask: Was your LR's Previous Owner an idiot? Sorry to go on and on and on. Cheers, Jimmy jimmyp@netcom.com jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From rmodica@east.pima.edu Sun Jan 08 14:37:13 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 14:37:13 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Used Disco vrs RR Kelly wants input about used a Disco, so here's some. I bought a new 94 Disco 5 spd in June for just over $32K including tax and AZ license, but no options. Can't understand why a used Disco is running $33K+ in CA. Is that due to local taxes? So far (about 7300 miles) here's a status report. I got it 16 June and after 500 breakin miles went up to Colorado for several weeks. Did some pretty rough driving out on slick rock and sandy terrain above the Colorado National Monument near Grand Junction and was VERY impressed. The Disco has great stability, super articulation, very impressive turning radius, great vision. Also went over Engineer Pass at 12,800 from Lake City to Ouray (RE: LRO Nov 94 pp. 178-181). That was a piece of cake in the Disco. All the other vehicles on the road were Japanese imitations or SWB Jeeps -- and they were all groaning in low 4WD. We rode in comfort with a radio and no dust and still in high range. The ABS really came in handy on the steep and loose descent into Ouray. I could feel them cycling on and off most of the way down. The other guy with me was in a 92 Pathfinder and had to use low range and was skidding. Did see a red RR part way up from Ouray, but was busy watching the curves and didn't get to stop. That was 31 July -- anyone out there remember the day? Problems during the first 7300 miles have been minor. The exhaust manifold to tailpipe nuts fell off from both sides after the first 4W shakedown. Made the Disco sound like a dragster -- very throaty. Made people turn their heads for sure. Fixed the exhaust with standard 8mm X 1.25 thread nuts from a local G>J> fasterner supplier for $1.50. LRNA told me they have had a similar problem with 110s but haven't heard from Disco owners. Anyone else? The electronic key is weak and bogus. Doesn't respond unless you approach from the driver's side and get about 10' away. The door locks in gerneral are badly designed for urban life. Unlock the driver's door and ALL doors unlock. Lock it with the electronic key and the metal key sets off the alarm. No way to lock the dopor from the inside except to reach behind you a push down the button. Pulling up the button to unlock from the inside is also a pain.But this is just a list of trifles. The Disco is one VERY IMPRESSIVE machine. It lacks the style, charisma, and personality of my 109" BUT, it has superlative amennities like a real radio, wipers that REALLY wipe, outstanding heater and air conditioning (same system that goes in the Lexus the service manager at the dealer said), ABS, more power than you can believe for a Land Rover, and great comfort -- but it still isn't my 109. Mileage isn't too bad either. Around town -- if you don't use all 182hp -- you can expect around 13.5mpg (US). On the highway I got 17.7 from Silver City NM to Tucson AZ on the Interstate at 75MPH with the air conditioning going full blast (it was 105 degrees outside). The rear seats are situated higher than the front seats so your boys will be able to see everything. The 60/40 rear seat is great for luggage. RE: license plate names. Some of my friends call my 109 "DOG" because a lot of people have a dog named Rover, but few people have a Rover named Dog. Rob 51 SI 80" 16136629 60 SII 109 164000620 94 Disco 5spd used to own 67 SIIA 88" 24420297B Anyone seen it? From Joseph Broach Sun Jan 08 17:21:29 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 95 17:21:29 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: points,anyone? My '67 IIa was equipped by the previous owner with an Allison electronic ignition system from Crane Cams Inc. All of a sudden, it has begun to cause problems. First regardless of mixture, the plugs were fouling. Then last weekend, after driving flawlessly the previous day, the landy wouldn't climb the driveway. The #1 plug was not even firing. I switched plugs to no avail. Wires, coil, cap, and plugs are new. Nothing obvious is wrong with the system after checking it thoroughly today. Allison will replace all the parts it takes to get it running, but I am seriously considering ripping it out and reverting back to the original system, points and all. Any suggestions on the problem or the swicth would be most appreciated. Rgds, Joseph From Andrew Steele Sun Jan 08 19:02:09 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 19:02:09 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: repost 88 RRinfo? Sorry to ask, but could someone please forward to me the posting about what to look for when buying a 88 Range Rover. I deleted all of last weeks notes; today my Uncle just called and said he's going to look at one for sale in Columbus, OH. Somewhat under $10,000. please send to: ad158@dayton.wright.edu On a diferent note, in Tom Sheppard's book, "The Land Rover Experience" I got to looking at a close up photo of a coil sprung and air suspension on a RR. (Page 144-145). It would appear to me that the physical installation is almost identical, electronics excluded. As such, has anyone given thought to, or already completed, a switch from coils to air suspension w/ manual controls to avoid the complexity of the electronic "brain"? Just a thought. For those people considering rebuilds and coil installations, why not just skip right on up to air suppension? Waiting for enough snow to be worth while --- only 1" yet this year.. However an alley one street down is all ice on a decent grade, but other than 10 minutes of play; not altogether satisfying. Oh well Andrew Dayton, OH ** looking for a diesel 109 or 110 (if any exist in the US) ** \ From Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Sun Jan 8 19:46:03 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:46:03 -0500 From: Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Footwells replaced--at last! Seems like I've been working on it for weeks...really about three...but the footwells, doorposts, and mudshields on both sides of my SIIA are now new. I can no longer watch the front wheels turn while driving and don't have to wear boots during a heavy rain. Thanks to all the people on the digest who talked me through this. ...now a few more questions: After bleeding the brakes (total flushing was required since I had to remove the master cylinder and brake servo, not to mention that I took the reciprocating saw through the left front brake line while cutting out old metal) I went out for a test drive. During a panic stop the right front brake locked up and the vehicle dramatically veered to the right. I returned to the garage and rebled the left front brake. Back out on the street the same thing happened, plus a regular pulsing sound coming from the right front under normal braking. Is this something that I can correct with the brake adjusters? The brakes worked fine before I removed the master cylinder and replaced the line. Clutch question. Again after bleeding the slave cylinder...actually replacing all the fluid (by the way I worked for half an hour trying to reach that bleed nipple from under the car. Imagine my delight in finding the access cover in the floor)..anyway, on the test drive there was a lot of squeeling in all four gears. Is this the sign of a bad clutch plate, bearing or what? Chris Stevens BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) Chrisste@cerf.net R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, because +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 4 L '69 S.IIa 88" From William Caloccia Sun Jan 08 21:13:09 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 95 21:13:09 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: repost 88 RRinfo? > Sorry to ask, but could someone please forward to me the posting about what You can looke in the recent postings by sending a request to majordomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com do a index lro-digest and it will respond with a bunch of 6 digit file names like 941231 and 941231.toc where the first file is the messages (from the digest) and the second is just the table of contents for that digest. then you send another message to him with get lro-digest 941230.toc get lro-digest 941231.toc get lro-digest 940101.toc get lro-digest 940102.toc And he'll send you the table of contents or whatever files you ask for (that are in the index). FAQs are also availble at that address. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Sun Jan 8 18:27:12 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 18:27:12 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: Re: Whoa! I'm not worthy! >When I turn off the ignition switch, the motor wants to continue to go. I >guess the LR is so happy tFrom "Kelly Minnick" Sun Jan 8 23:51:19 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 23:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Re: Which one? RE: RR Vs Disco Does the '89 RR have the 'hidden' door hinges? Isn't there a lot of body sway on a non-sway bar RR Vs the Disco? I know my '87 leaned a lot, but I just got use to it. Never seemed to be a problem. What about the 5sp versus the Automatic trans?? Is the 5sp better off-road? (maybe the auto is) I know I got lazy with my RR and sometimes wished my sIII had the same drive train (doesn't leak as much oil!). Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Jan 9 08:32:22 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:32:22 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Lucas alternators and all that stuff! Well, XMAS has come and gone, and a bright New Year is upon us. After letting the Rover rest peacefully, because of the alternator/warning light problem. I took the alternator back to the folks that fixed it, and wouldn't you just know it, there was a * little wire broken * inside of it. Put the alternator back on, turned on the switch and there it was a little red glow on the dash. Warning light back on, alternator charging, everyone is happy again. I have been following the discussion concerning charging problems, and have really enjoyed it. Especially liked 'the electrical flower pot' by Malcolm. Kudo's to everyone who posted advice on charging problems. There was a fellow back in December that had mentioned replacing his window channels with * stainless steel * tracks. Would like to hear more about this, if he could get in touch with me by Email or repost to the digest. Am a great fan of metal that does not rust or corrode. Have replaced most of the body fasteners on my Rover with stainless steel fasteners. Sure makes removing the front fenders to work on the engine, a very simple task. I also have been following the discussion on Weber carbs, I have a single barrel on mine, and have found it to be relatively trouble free. The only problem is icing up if the temperature is just around freezing. Would like more info on how to make a manifold stove around the base of the carb. Cheers! Richard From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 9 07:50:43 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 07:50:43 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Misc. tots Some misc stuff... I turned to ch. 36 in San Jose tonight to record Silicon Valley Business and caught the tail end of a movie with what was definitely a lightweight 88". Dunno what movie it was (I had the CD player going), but I'll check and make sure it's on the list. The magazine Trailer Life features the Disco prominently on the cover as part of its SUV round-up. I dunno, but it seems to me like an SUV is an awful lot to haul around on the back of a motorhome. What ever happened to the electric tow vehicle someone was working on? There was a moving truck parked outside the building I'm working in t'other day, and as I was walking past, I noticed something out of the corner of my eye that didn't register until later. Like most truckers, this one had a CB, but the mike was not mounted on a fixed mount, but rather it seemed to be hanging from a string -- perhaps bungee cord. Which sounds like a great idea to me. That way, your mike is out of the way, but when you want to talk, just reach up and grab it -- no fumbling with some silly clip. When you're done, just let go. I'm not sure Bungee cord would be the best, but I'm gonna look into it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Bill Yerazunis Mon Jan 9 10:56:34 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:56:34 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: 94 Discovery I also have a 94 Discovery, and yup, it dripped the exhaust manifold-to- pipe nuts at about 12Kmiles. I replaced 'em with stainless-steel M6 nuts and that's held. The front passenger doorlatch also came unscrewed at around 20Kmiles; that was an easy fix with a big allen wrench. I got a number of "CHECK ENGINE" lights; the dealer has scanned out the computer repeatedly and supposedly it's the idle-stepper motor but the motor never seems to have a problem at the dealer's. Next time it happens, he's agreed to replace the stepper motor anyway. The car runs fine when this happens; it's just an annoying Lucasglitch. The electronic key isn't bad on mine- I get about a 20' range IF I hold the key above window level. The recieve antenna is inside the dashboard, remember? I haven't done any long-distance 4-wheeling yet, but I did use the D as a counterweight for a two-person hammock. Worked great. :-) According to my dealer, my D holds the dubious honor of the highest-mileage D in North America- 25,000 miles. It's been up and down the East Coast a number of times. The D "projects ki" very well. No trouble driving it through Manhattan a few times- even Gothamites seem to be somewhat afraid of it. It's got that "I don't mind steamrollering you" look to it. Gas mileage is 13 to 17 (in other words, crappy). I've already got Mobil-1 synthetic in the crankcase; anybody have any opinion as to the suitability of using it in the automatic transmission (yes, there IS a Mobil-1 ATF), as well as going to Mobil-1 synthetic gear oil in the transfer case, diffs, and swivels? Weaknesses: the door locks should be moved off the sill; the seats need a better adjuster than the starwheel, and there should be an easy way to remove the rear seats entirely when you want a *big* cargo bay. Everything else is great; the car is about as solid as anything I've ever dealt with. The mechanicals remind me of pre-1960 lathes... "This machine, if given proper maintenance, is designed to operate *for* *ever* *and* *ever*. If it ever breaks, it's because *you* *f____d* *up*. Replace what you broke, change the lube, and carry on." From Bill Yerazunis Mon Jan 9 10:56:34 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:56:34 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: 94 Discovery I also have a 94 Discovery, and yup, it dripped the exhaust manifold-to- pipe nuts at about 12Kmiles. I replaced 'em with stainless-steel M6 nuts and that's held. The front passenger doorlatch also came unscrewed at around 20Kmiles; that was an easy fix with a big allen wrench. I got a number of "CHECK ENGINE" lights; the dealer has scanned out the computer repeatedly and supposedly it's the idle-stepper motor but the motor never seems to have a problem at the dealer's. Next time it happens, he's agreed to replace the stepper motor anyway. The car runs fine when this happens; it's just an annoying Lucasglitch. The electronic key isn't bad on mine- I get about a 20' range IF I hold the key above window level. The recieve antenna is inside the dashboard, remember? I haven't done any long-distance 4-wheeling yet, but I did use the D as a counterweight for a two-person hammock. Worked great. :-) According to my dealer, my D holds the dubious honor of the highest-mileage D in North America- 25,000 miles. It's been up and down the East Coast a number of times. The D "projects ki" very well. No trouble driving it through Manhattan a few times- even Gothamites seem to be somewhat afraid of it. It's got that "I don't mind steamrollering you" look to it. Gas mileage is 13 to 17 (in other words, crappy). I've already got Mobil-1 synthetic in the crankcase; anybody have any opinion as to the suitability of using it in the automatic transmission (yes, there IS a Mobil-1 ATF), as well as going to Mobil-1 synthetic gear oil in the transfer case, diffs, and swivels? Weaknesses: the door locks should be moved off the sill; the seats need a better adjuster than the starwheel, and there should be an easy way to remove the rear seats entirely when you want a *big* cargo bay. Everything else is great; the car is about as solid as anything I've ever dealt with. The mechanicals remind me of pre-1960 lathes... "This machine, if given proper maintenance, is designed to operate *for* *ever* *and* *ever*. If it ever breaks, it's because *you* *f____d* *up*. Replace what you broke, change the lube, and carry on." From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Jan 09 09:13:05 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 09:13:05 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Disco named "Rover" FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco named "Rover" Hello all, just "needed" to send off a note to articulate on my latest antics, and announce the name of my '94 L.R. Discovery. First of all, her (note gender) name is "Rover" in honor of her roots. Underneath all the shine (well, mud at the moment...) leather, smooth ride, and fluff sits the guts of what I totally believe to be the toughest truck produced today. (Note: FOUR WHEELER magazine has announced the Discovery their four wheeler of the year in the February issue, with one of the drivers stating "The Discovery is the only real four-wheel drive in the group.") While I've only owned her for just under 4 months, she already has over 11K miles, many of which have been off-road. Her gender is due to her being a Land Rover, as any rover owner can testify that they can be temperamental, as woman can be. No offense, just the facts. (Mine is still in that "newlywed" mode, and hasn't given me troubles yet.... but the honeymoon's not over yet! ;) ) Or.... maybe the honeymoon IS over, as I need to sell my beloved Rover. ;( I feel like I'm putting my faithful dog of 12 years down to sleep! Heavy sigh.... but tough as it is, it's what I must do. On second thought... I will submit my antics in another note.... talk to ya soon. Dave & "Rover" - Phoenix Arizona USA #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From BwanaE@aol.com Mon Jan 9 11:33:00 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:33:00 -0500 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: 6-cyl questions For John Hess: My workshop manual supplement for the NADA 2.6 litre specifies Champion N4 sparkplugs gapped