From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 90 rear tailgate From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:01:18 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have been around a number of North American spec 90's now. One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. Has anyone else noticed this ? How about all you owners of 90's on the net, what is your reaction? Regards Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:57:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:06:32 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO HARD TOP FOR NORTH AMERCIAN 90'S Land Rover are currently developing a hard top for the North American 90. It will be made of two sided gel coated GRP in a low pressure molding process. It will be made of four pieces along the lines of a Series type hard top. there will be a roof section, including a side skylight on the sides. The side panels join the roof panel exactly half way up the roll over cage, so the side and roof panels have have half the cut out for the cage. The side panels have a full lenght big window in it, theredoes not appear any opening mechanism, just a fixed window. The side pices appear to wrap around at the rear , just like the series panels and have a small window either side of the tailgate. the rear door upper piece is the last panel. According to the pictures i have and the description it is a horizontally hinged piece that is hinged to the roof section and lifts up after the tailgate has been swung away. To me this was pretty predictable for a number of reasons. The North Amercian Standard (NAS as Land Rover call it) 90 has had problem in getting of the lot. To potential buyers the idea of an insecure vehcile is not going over well, in addition the road noise of the soft top is a constant feature of just about test review of the vehcile. There are a number of refinements to be done but this is basically the final version. The colour of the hard top will be similar to that of the current soft top, a kind of graphite grey black. It will retail for about $3000 and will be available in the fourth quarter LR say. All these details are subject to fine tuning and change of course. I understand from another sources that the next model year of 90's might have a hard top fitted as standard and that it will be aluminum and will be painted the same colour as the rest of the vehcile. BTW the GRP version is designed to fit with all of the roll cage structure intact. Regards Robin Craig Ottawa , Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: toy 90 for sale, offers pls From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:47:17 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO FOR SALE In original box, torn one corner though, Briatins 90 British Telecom livery, yellow. Has not been played with so is in very best shape otherwise. Interested in swapping for the following $32 usd including sufrace shipping within North America OR what have you in the way of original old sales brochures and material such as decals etc manuals / books. Particularly looking for Shpperds desert crossing in 101's book. Will accept offers until midnight 7 october. Will close and decide then. Please reply directly to me Regards Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: possible sale of 127 in Canada From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 20:27:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO There is a good possibility that a Land Rover 127 will come up for sale soon. here are the details at present. Vehicle is currently road registered in Canada. Has 3.5 V8 engine, as standard. originally was a military ambulance but was damaged and has now been fitted with a flat rear body and has kept the original truck cab. Is currently in civilian hands. Any one who wishes to be informed of anymore details on this vehicle should reply directly to me. I am not the seller but have just heard about the vehicle through a friend. No idea on price as yet, not even a ball park figure. regds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 02:05:43 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Black Nineties To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 718 Status: RO Somebody mentioned black Nineties a few days ago. So much for only royalty having them! I just visited the Denver dealer. They received the first two two weeks ago, and another three this week. One sold already. They are part of a limited edition of 100 in the US. The 5 in Denver are the most sent to a single dealer. Leather seats appear to be the only distinctive item, and it jacks up the price another $1000. The Denver dealer also mentioned they will have hardtops for the Nineties in December (just about when new owners will be seeing the need for them!) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 01:23:09 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: LR current cite To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 512 Status: RO Here's the latest: Whale, Gregory R. Land Rover Defender 90 : 7,000 miles with a real four wheeler [long term test] FOUR WHEELER Vol. 31, no. 10 (Oct. 1994) p. 40-46 This is part of a continuing long term report on the vehicle that FOUR WHEELER named "Four Wheeler of the Year" in March 1994. This test vehicle has been places that no other could make. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 20:04:19 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 02:00:24 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: TV rover To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all. Spotted another landie on tv tonight. A real one this time. I was watching a report on Eigil Knuth's 90'th birthday on natl tv. Knuth is a scientist and archeologist (sp?) and he has lived most of his life in the northernmost part of Greenland. He was to be driven to the cabin for the celebration. The tele company working in these parts provided the vehicle. It was a SII Land-Rover in absolutely mint condition. Not a scratch in the paint or a dent in the body. Even the interior looked brand new. The climate is extremely dry so rust and rot has some difficulties having a feast on cars and machines. There was also some footage from Station Nord and a guy called Henning was interviewed. Hey - i used to speak on the radio with him a while ago. And play chess. Small world ain't it. Later +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 06:20:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: do you live near Mickey's place? From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 20:18:20 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within 20 minutes drive? Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 20:27:23 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 21:24:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO 10. You buy Rover models at car boot sales. 9. You buy Witworth tools at car boot sales. 8. You run out and join the AA. 7. Your insurance agent asks you if you've got the letter/s reversed. 6. You're applying for petrol credit cards. 5. You keep on hearing your self say: "No, its the other L-reg". 4. Your friends are buying stock in the petrol company. 3. The vehicle has a history. 2. The vehicle comes with a boot full of spares & shop manual. 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and swap all the metric spanners for English ones. --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:06:05 1994 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Sender: "Malcolm956" To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 21:59:27 EDT Subject: A) Newport & B) dwell Status: RO Part A) > Ladies, gentleman, members of the jury: > Please allow me to plead my case. I am not sure who is on the jury, but, if I am included, I have been thoughtful in my deliberations and have not read any tabloid accounts of your adventures. Where does the balance point lie: Brooke Shields or a three weight? Either is expensive, but three weights come a great deal closer to my budget (and interest), so I think that I will go that way. A 3 will probably be next in my 5, 7 and 10 (salt) collection. As to the testimony, and I quote, "Lemme tell ya folks, Nige, the li'l woman and I were *stylin'*." Amen!!! Further, I suggest that if any "li'l woman" is willing to put up with what you and Nigel have undoubtedly put her through, she might be well worth hanging on to. I courted my wife of more than thirty years in a TD which had Lucas wipers and no heater, Smiths or otherwise. In any event, as to the pleading of your case, I award you a NINE POINT NINE. I would of done a TEN except that somewhere, sometime there MAY be a better story. Part B: The mundane. Can anyone give me point gap in terms of degrees dwell for a '65 SWB IIa? A later model distributor has been installed, with a square-ish distributor cap rather than the earlier round one, if that makes any difference. Thanx: Malcolm From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:33:16 1994 Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 22:29:22 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andrew Steele From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Sweepstakes w/ Defender 90 Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Did anyone ever get the rules to this [defender] sweepstakes? I sent in a SASE several weeks back and received no reply. I'd really like to enter! -jory p.s. Recently, I am having a problem where I have an oil pressure drop ("seen" via dummy light) when I come to a stop (or whenever there is a drop to idle-speed). However, it only happens after the car is well warmed up. When the light comes on, continuously applying just a little bit of gas will turn it off again (you may recall that I am temporarily without an oil pressure gauge, after mine self-destructed last month, spraying oil all over my engine compartment, etc). It seems like this problem would likely be related to temprature-dependent changes in the oil viscosity, but I am unsure exactly what is occurring... or if I should worry about it. I am running synthetic oil in the engine. One the one hand, I think the pressure is just a tad low for the sensor, and I shouldn't really be concerned. The I think of the true import of the green dummy light, and all the money involved, and I start to get nervous... Any suggestions? >Hello all, >I just opened my October edition of OUTSIDE magazine and on page 171 found the >River Wild Sweepstakes. Mindyou, I never bother to waste the $0.29 to enter >these damn thing; but in this case.... > >"If you think you can handle a vacation on The Rive Wild, then take one" >Universal Studios. The River Wild Sweepstakes = grand prize: one 1994 Land >Rover Deender 90 in bright double AA yellow plus a 5 day Grand Canyon >whitewater rafting trip for two. Sweepstakes open to residents of U.S. 18 yrs >or older. > >For a copy of official rules, send self-addressed stamped envelope to "The >River Wild" Rules, P.O. Box 56436, Sherman Oaks CA 91413 > >Mail entries to PO BOx 6044, Sherman Oakes, CA 91413. > >{It does'nt say if a blank card can be sent in rather than the card} > >Drawing on 11/15/94. This seems to be a promotion for Hign Seas Adventure on >the Discovery Channel, Sept 23-25 beginning at 8 p.m. >{I don't have cable so someone will have to post if they have any Rovers on >the show} > >Standard disclaimer -- I don't have any relation to the above; except it's >contained in my copy of the magizine etc.... > >In case I don't win, I'm still looking to find a Diesel ?. If you run across >one, please let me know. > >Andrew/ Dayton Ohio >87 RR and one mixed Grey Hound/Great Dane. From thelist@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au Sun Oct 2 23:36:11 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 14:37:42 +1000 Reply-To: thelist@gu.edu.au Sender: thelist@gu.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: Mark Hessling To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Bug in THE 2.0 beta with TABSIN Status: RO In reply to Regis BOSSUT: >I just installed THE 2.0 Beta on a HP-UX platform. I got a lot of warnings at >compile time, but THE runs fine, except that in my profile file, the following >line hangs it : 'set tabsin on 8' so I had to comment it out. The problem with TABSIN ON and several other profile commands has been corrected although they are not yet available :-( I hope to get another beta available soon. The next beta will (hopefully) also include a Microsoft Windows version. This port is being done by Ken Robinette. I am also working on an X-Windows port as well. I'm not sure when it will be ready for beta-testing. >I must admit that THE 2.0 added features are making it really close to XEDIT. >I just regret the change in the up-down key changes (CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB is >not longer valid...) >Any chance to get back to the previous mode ?... The functionality of CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB is still in THE 2.0. What the last arguments of CMDARROWS indicated the behaviour of the left/right/up/down arrows. The behaviour of these keys can now be controlled individually using the CURSOR [SCREEN] LEFT|RIGHT|UP|DOWN command. By default, CURL is defined as CURSOR LEFT, CURR is defined as CURSOR RIGHT, etc To get the behaviour of CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB, define CURL CURSOR SCREEN LEFT, define CURR CURSOR SCREEN RIGHT, etc. The next beta will also have another option for CURSOR LEFT and CURSOR RIGHT, which will enable the default KEDIT behaviour of the left and right arrow keys. >By the way, I didn't find the ilp client on gu.edu.au. Where is it hidden ? Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the "ilp client" ? Cheers, Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Hessling Email: M.Hessling@gu.edu.au DBA,ITS Phone: +617 875 7691 Griffith University Fax: +617 875 5314 Nathan, Brisbane ***** PDCurses Maintainer ***** QLD 4111 *** Author of THE and GUROO *** Australia ======= Member of RexxLA ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 06:20:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 12:14:57 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410030124.VAA08958@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 2, 94 9:24 pm Status: RO > > > 10. You buy Rover models at car boot sales. > > 9. You buy Witworth tools at car boot sales. > > 8. You run out and join the AA. > > 7. Your insurance agent asks you if you've got the letter/s reversed. > > 6. You're applying for petrol credit cards. > > 5. You keep on hearing your self say: "No, its the other L-reg". > > 4. Your friends are buying stock in the petrol company. > > 3. The vehicle has a history. > > 2. The vehicle comes with a boot full of spares & shop manual. > > 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and > swap all the metric spanners for English ones. > > --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com > > 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase > |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." > 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" > Bill, Oooooh....I like it:-)Dixon,that's just *got* to go in the FAQ. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:13:59 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:06:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Defender 90 Soft Top Problems To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven asks: >> Maybe I'm in a state of blissful ignorance but what problems are there with the top? And what does this "proper replacement" consist of? >> I ran into Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks at the Baystate meet this past weekend. He pointed out some of the problems of the 90 top. They include thin gauge windows, crooked/poor stiching, poor fit (= flapping + wind noise) difficult to adjust straps. He redoes the stitching in some areas, replaces the windows with heavier zip in windows, replaces all the zippers (originals are poor quality), adjusts the fit, and uses velcro straps. You can call him at 508-394-2680. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:20:36 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:16:25 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: US Defender 110 Dealer Costs To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven writes: >> They did. LR imported 500 Defender 110's during '93 at around $41,000 apiece. I've seen two (or maybe the same one twice) in the L.A. area. >> In a 1992 copy of a book by Simon and Schuster detailing car retail and dealer costs, they listed the base price of the 1993 Defender 110 at $39,900 and the dealer cost at $34,400. The winch package retailed at $1900 and dealer cost was $1520. If anyone is interested. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:41:17 1994 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: 90 rear tailgate In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Oct 1994 17:01:18 CDT." Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 05:38:14 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Robin asks, I have been around a number of North American spec 90's now. One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. Has anyone else noticed this ? How about all you owners of 90's on the net, what is your reaction? ANSWER: Yes now that you mention it, I have noticed the tailgate to be a bit sloppy when closing. Once closed however, it seems to be nice and tight. The weight of that big tire/wheel combination must be close to 50-60 pounds, get it swinging too fast closing the gate and there is considerable momentum there. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:46:25 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:44:09 -0400 To: lro@stratus.com From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Subject: Any Early (April/May) US Disco Owners? Status: RO Gentle Readers: Warning: Don't bother with this unless you're really bored. It's incredibly trivial. Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I mean purchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash (three times) when you lock the vehicle? Why, you might ask, do I care? Well, I recently purchased exactly such a beast (used, of course), and mine don't. I mentioned it at my last oil change, and, compulsive as he is, the service manager wanted to keep the car and fix it. "Okay" I said. After two days of struggling with it, they couldn't figure out what was wrong. The service manager and I started wondering if, since mine was an early vehicle, they were even supposed to work that way. Maybe only later shipments had the flashing lights. While they're researching it on their end, I thought I'd check with the net. If pressed hard, I can actually think of one semi-practical advantage of this feature. According to the owners manual at least, if, when you (think you) lock the car, one of the doors isn't closed, the parking lights won't flash, thus alerting you to the unsecured vehicle. BTW, I can speak quite well of (at least this particular) Land Rover service department. Without any request from me, they supplied a rental car, and they actually were going to keep the Disco longer (and me in the Geo Prizm, yuck) I guess until they resolved the issue. I realize the triviality of this, but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies encouraged). Please send any serious replies via email since I doubt there's general interest in this topic. Thanks in advance. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:54:47 1994 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hard Top for NAS 90 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Oct 1994 17:06:32 CDT." Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 05:47:19 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Robin says, The colour of the hard top will be similar to that of the current soft top, a kind of graphite grey black. It will retail for about $3000 and will be available in the fourth quarter LR say. ANSWER: The part number was released last Thursday, my hard top is SUPPOSED to be here in 3 weeks, costing $2000. Got my fingers crossed as it's already down to 38-F in the mornings, a bit chilly/breezy in a car with no top. Great fun once in a while but not for every day driving. No flames about cold winters from the Canucks, we know you guys are supermen, taking baths in frozen lakes etc. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 90 Range Rover Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 08:41:54 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 09:33:39 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Flashing Rover Things To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven asks: >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies encouraged). >> When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a flash. :-) Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 09:32:14 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:28:03 +0100 From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Flashing Disco lights Cc: sat@eng.tridom.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 446 Status: RO Our Disco TDi was built in the UK in July 1993. When you activate the central locking/immobilizer with one remote keyfob the lights flash once, with the other they flash three times. I'm certain both keyfobs used to flash thrice so they can clearly forget what to do :-) We've not bothered the dealer with this to date. We have heard stories that changing the batteries on these fobs can also prove both costly and tedious. Martin Farrall From ccray Mon Oct 3 09:57:24 1994 Subject: Mr. Personality To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:57:24 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2713 Status: RO I want to come out right up front and thank Richard Jones (richardj@apricot.co.uk) for the excellent "New RR" series. His fingers must surely be sore from all that typing. And you ask, where is this leading? I went to two parties this weekend. These are my wife's invitations and I accompany her. Jan (that's the wife) calls me "Mr. Personality" at parties. It is probably true. While she "works the room", I stake out a corner of the bar and am content at talking to one or two people (or maybe none at all). And over the years, I learned not to talk the religion/politics/sex stuff `cause that can get you into troubled, heated conversations. In mixed company, I am not allowed to bring up the "land rover" topic unless someone asks me first. So, over time, I have learned to back into the subject with phrases like "...what kind of car do you drive" or "...I worked on my car..." in response to a "...what did you do today..." question. And I can always honestly say "...he/she brought the subject up..." when reprimanded. Well this weekend, I had them eating out of my hand. At both parties we were discussing the the subject of the "New RR" and I had the facts. Most people were not aware of the "New RR" so it is amazing that we managed to get onto that topic. When I pointed out the new features, functions and benefits that I had gleaned from Richard's LRO posting, the people were impressed. At one point, there were 6 people gathered around and being entertained by "Mr. Personality". And even Jan was impressed when one of the "important people" said to her "...Ray sure knows his Range Rovers -- I always wanted to buy one of those..." On Sunday morning, at breakfast, I was still going strong. It was like a scene from a movie: "...the New RR has retained the black e-pillar..." says I. "...I want to try the avacodo recipe in this months cooking lite..." says she. "...the New RR has retained the castel bonnet..." I replied. "...we are going to eat diet meals this week..." she responded. Now, I heard every word she said, but I somehow don't think my thoughts were transferred. Anyway, I am going to print out the "New RR" series and take it home for Jan to read. And I will review them, also, for there is another party Wednesday nite... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:14:56 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: do you live near Mickey's place? To: Robin Craig Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01FLTc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well, almost...My parents live in Orlando and I live in Tampa...Can I be of service to you? reply e-mail:swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Steve On Sun, 2 Oct 1994, Robin Craig wrote: > Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within > 20 minutes drive? > > Rgds > > Robin Craig > > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:14:56 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: do you live near Mickey's place? To: Robin Craig Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01FLTc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well, almost...My parents live in Orlando and I live in Tampa...Can I be of service to you? reply e-mail:swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Steve On Sun, 2 Oct 1994, Robin Craig wrote: > Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within > 20 minutes drive? > > Rgds > > Robin Craig > > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 11:10:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Spent Saturday at the Mid-Atlantic site putting the finishing touches on several things. The mud bog, while not full becaouse of the dry weather (2 months) is still belly-deep on a big dog. The climb/turn out of the pit should be a real challenge once properly wet down. Completed and tested the teeter-totter just after dark. Mike has done an exceptional job...it's bloody strong...could be used for a portable bridge. It's also well off the ground and at the crest of a hill...*scary*. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 11:10:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Spent Saturday at the Mid-Atlantic site putting the finishing touches on several things. The mud bog, while not full becaouse of the dry weather (2 months) is still belly-deep on a big dog. The climb/turn out of the pit should be a real challenge once properly wet down. Completed and tested the teeter-totter just after dark. Mike has done an exceptional job...it's bloody strong...could be used for a portable bridge. It's also well off the ground and at the crest of a hill...*scary*. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 11:27:24 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Defender 90 Sales in Eastern US Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 09:22:47 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I was talking to a person who sells Defender 90s in Massachusetts and he claimed to sell between 6 and 10 Defender 90s a month. Just for another data point.... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 11:44:54 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 09:39:45 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO In message writes: > HARD TOP FOR NORTH AMERCIAN 90'S SO why can't a defender 90 owner just import a standard Defender 90 hard top from the UK (maybe a nice used one), remove the US spec roll bar & put the hard top on their US spec 90? They could get it sooner & maybe save some $$$. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 16:23:32 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 11:23:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@Team.Net Subject: New RR Status: RO I would like to second the votes of thanks to Richard Jones for providing all the info about the new RR. At this point my interest is mainly academic, but it's great fun imagining. One thing I was a bit disappointed about in all the specs was that it's pretty hard to find any evidence that Land Rover devoted any attention to improving off-road performance (granted that it was already pretty stupendous). On the contrary, we see that the departure angle and breakover angle are worse than the old RR, and the roll resistance has been increased by 30% -- always a bad sign for off-road. The tweaks to the air suspension seem to be focussed on the low and access modes. Although the tyre size has been increased, by my calculations the outside diameter is still the same -- they are just fatter. Perhaps this is all sour grapes on my part! In spite of these things, it looks like a magnificent vehicle. Many thanks once again John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:14:27 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"caloccia@sw.stratus.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Bill Caloccia writes... > Subj: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" > > > "Lucas Industries, already convicted of selling shoddy goods to the U.S. > military, faces criminal investigation into whether it falsified the > inspection of parts used on Boeing airliners." > > _Roundel_, "Briefs", Sept. 1994. > So... this is news?? Oy! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) LUCAS A hard days work and Home before dark! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 18:01:45 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 18:32:21 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO "Lucas Industries, already convicted of selling shoddy goods to the U.S. military, faces criminal investigation into whether it falsified the inspection of parts used on Boeing airliners." _Roundel_, "Briefs", Sept. 1994. _Roundel_ is 'The magazine of BMW Car Club of America, Inc.' (Actually, a very good magazine, even if most of the articles are whinging on about how great the BMW nnn is or how better it ought to be. The undisputed information channel for the skinny on the better electronic counter measure and detection equipment, not to mention they picked up Satch Carlson after Autoweek dumped him.) [All that and membership in BMWCCA gets you the abililty to do 'drivers schools', which is why I joined.] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 20:54:59 1994 Date: 03 Oct 94 21:47:34 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO Robin Craig writes: > ...the next model year of 90's might have a hard top fitted as standard > and that it will be aluminum... Sounds like this would be more or less permanent. Having the option of a hard top would be nice although the noise doesn't really bother me and open air driving is ok most of the year in Southern California. It's nice to hear that this is retrofittable and the same color as the current soft top although $3000 is a lot. Can I hope this is CD$ and not $US . > BTW the GRP version is designed to fit with all of the roll cage > structure intact. Does this include the rear portion of the cage used with the soft top? Thanks for the information! Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 20:55:13 1994 Date: 03 Oct 94 21:47:39 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: 90 rear tailgate Status: RO Robin Craig writes: > One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the > lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate > with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. I have also noticed this. What is happening is that the latch mechanism is not fully engaged as the tailgate tends to "bounce". So the result is the tailgate can move. One should obviously not drive with the tailgate in this state as a no-notice opening could occur. Three tries or so should result in the tailgate completely closing in a solid fashion with no "bounce". I seem to have had more success if I try to close the tailgate with the minimum of force. Of course one try should do it but I have not yet found it sufficiently annoying to look at myself or take to the dealer. One note: there is no play in the door hinges that I've noticed, I suspect the latch is the problem, perhaps some lubrication or adjustment. Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 00:56:30 1994 From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Repost!!! Please To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 239 Status: RO The people that were importing LR's that were due the 4th Oct. I got the mail, bu tin attempts to save it, the editor ate it. I would like an address, so I can decide because of my own decision, not because I lost the mail. :) Thanks From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:35:15 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: maloney@wings.attmail.com, lro@team.net, denis@oswego.edu X-Vms-To: INTERNET"maloney@wings.attmail.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" INTERNET"denis@oswego.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Yep.. it's getting just a bit toooo quite around here... Stephan Thomas, proud Disco owner wonders why his lights don't flash. And then Baloney, er Maloney, seeing a chance for fame and glory, in a FLASH of inspiration, tells of all sorts of flash..... > From: IN%"maloney@wings.attmail.com" 3-OCT-1994 09:46:45.97 > To: IN%"LRO@stratus.com" > CC: > Subj: Flashing Rover Things > > > Steven asks: > > >> > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > encouraged). > >> > You blew it Stephan... "humorous replies" indeed!.. So Maloney says.... > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and> > > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. OK Bill... I'm fowarding this to Steve Denis. Poor boy is tied up (Please, not the tied up bit!) in school studying hard. (Or studying coeds? I'm sure thats hard to take...) Parking lights flash when you lock the vehicle?? Whaaattt?? Cheers... Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:11:15 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:03:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Def 90 Hardtop recent post To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO What is "gel-coated GRP"? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 18:59:05 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: New Land Rover Club & Gear box troubles To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 9:37:45 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Thought I would just like to inform every-one of the formation of a new Land- Rover club, in Gippsland, in Victoria, Australia. The club held its second monthly meeting last night, and I became a member last night! Currently there are only about 35 members, but the club is only two months old. Also what are people experiances with broken layshafts, as I broke mine, trying to roll start my diesel, and I only reliased when I tried to move it under its own power a couple of weeks later, when there was a grinding noise coming from the gear box. I hope I do not have to replace the gear box, as I doubt I will get another Series 1 gear box, and I would just miss that dip stick!! Thats all for now! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 10:53:34 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 08:43:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au, lro@team.net Subject: Re: New Land Rover Club & Gear box troubles Status: RO In message <9410032337.AA09480@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Craig Murray writes: . > > Also what are people experiances with broken layshafts, as I broke mine, > trying to roll start my diesel, and I only reliased when I tried to move it > under its own power a couple of weeks later, when there was a grinding noise > coming from the gear box. I hope I do not have to replace the gear box, as > I doubt I will get another Series 1 gear box, and I would just miss that > dip stick!! > Greg, I lost the layshaft in my series IIA 109 a month ago. I was pulling out from a stop and it sounded like the transmission poped out of gear. There was no first or second, third was fery loud so I imeediatly got out of that gear. Fourth worked fine. I drove back on fourth. Mine was a clean break and all I needed was a new layshaft. I could see an irregularity in the centre of the shaft where it broke. Talking to Scotty (the local Land Rover Geru), he seems to think that about one in a hundred lay shafts had an irregularity. Its always at the same place on the laysaft. I guess I would recommending having any lay shaft you use X-rayed, and X-ray an old intact one during a rebuild. Of course this would only need to be done once. Hope you get it fixed OK. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 11:33:56 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. To: twakeman@apple.com ("TeriAnn Wakeman" ) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 12:27:21 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410041543.AA14936@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Oct 4, 94 8:43 am Status: RO SNIP - SNIP > > > Greg, > I lost the layshaft in my series IIA 109 a month ago. I was pulling out from a > stop and it sounded like the transmission poped out of gear. There was no first > or second, third was fery loud so I imeediatly got out of that gear. Fourth > worked fine. I drove back on fourth. > > Mine was a clean break and all I needed was a new layshaft. I could see an > irregularity in the centre of the shaft where it broke. Talking to Scotty (the > local Land Rover Geru), he seems to think that about one in a hundred lay shafts > had an irregularity. Its always at the same place on the laysaft. > > I guess I would recommending having any lay shaft you use X-rayed, and X-ray an > old intact one during a rebuild. Of course this would only need to be done > once. > > Hope you get it fixed OK. Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a couple of weeks. Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu King George, Va. '66' IIA 88 RHD > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 12:49:01 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:37:44 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. Status: RO In message <199410041629.MAA08508@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" > Hope you get it fixed OK. > > Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest > on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the > foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? > I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a > couple of weeks. > > Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu > King George, Va. > '66' IIA 88 RHD > > Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a half. I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. The price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow mw to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can get a before photo of the Green Rover. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 13:24:52 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: lro@team.net Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known far enough in advance. Many thanks John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 14:22:01 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 15:12:04 EST To: lro@team.net, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: lighting science - long post, delete if you don't care... Content-Length: 11154 Status: RO Fellow netters, Since I'm a confirmed quartz halogen junkie, I've been asked to discuss the specifics of European headlamp aiming. It is an art rather than a science, but anyone can do it with a flat parking lot, a little time on their hands and some darkness. True European headlamps (H4, H1, etc.) typically do not have the appropriate mounting points for American headlamp aiming machines so they must be aimed by hand. H1, H2, H3, H4 all refer to a specific style of bulb. They are quite different and not interchangeable. The H4 is the only style that has a dual filament. The lens and reflector may be unique to a specific style of car - 1994 Volvo 850, for instance. Or it may be a common shape, 7 inch round or quad rectangular... Most systems sold in the US are sealed, that is the lens, reflector and bulb are a single integrated unit, just like a 70 watt lightbulb for your reading lamp. Others have replaceable bulbs, like your Bosch or Hella fog lights and virtually all European headlamp systems. The rational behind this is that the lens and reflector don't wear nearly as quickly as the bulb, so the high quality optical lens/reflector is reusable the cheap part (the bulb), which wears out, is replaceable. In addition, this allows manufacturers to design aerodynamic lenses if desired (early Saab 9000, Audi 5000, Porsche 911, etc.) Most of these cars have different headlamp configurations in the US and Europe (older Saab 900, Audi 4000) although some manufacturers *are* trying to standardize (late Saab 9000, Land Rover Discovery, BMW), which may mean that European lighting is getting poorer *or* US lighting is getting better. YMMV. BTW, I believe that most of Canada now follows the more restrictive US lighting codes. Usually lamp assemblies are referred to by their style - Volvo 240 aero, or Volvo 240 quad rectangular, not H4. In fact the quad rectangular takes two different bulbs, the H4 for the outboard combo lo/hi and H1 (if memory serves) for the inboard high beam. But the quad rectangular (lo/hi) or 7 inch round could either be US sealed beam or European lamps, which would take H4 bulbs. So some people may say 7 inch round H4, meaning 7 inch round Euro... Bulb Availability I buy my bulbs from Imparts. They seem to offer the best prices on bulbs at about $11 or so per high powered bulb 90/100 or 100/130. They also have high powered 9004s, for late model Saabs, Volvos, and a variety of other cars and trucks. You can reach them at 800 325-9043. I've run 80/100s in H4 quad setups on an '82 Volvo 244T. No problem with wiring or blinding people. OTOH, I have fried several wiring connectors on my wife's Saab 9000 with 70/80 and 80/100 watt bulbs, but it uses a 9004 bulb with a very poorly designed connector. I recently upgraded the connectors with new heavy-duty ones from Competition Limited. These use a much more robust female connector. Haven't had any problems since. I'm currently (ahem) running 90/100s in my '88 Volvo 745T and have used these wattage bulbs since the car was new. I run my headlights day and night and typically get about a year! out of a bulb. I've got a set of 100/130s in the toolkit just waiting to be installed when the last of the 90/100s goes. Proper aiming of the lamps will help keep you from blinding people, but the fact is that in some circumstances, coming over the crest of a hill for instance, the concentrated light from the H4 will bother people no matter whether you've got 55 watts or 130. Passing can also be a problem. Don't linger behind someone as you're passing them. The "hot spot" of your beam pattern shines right on their mirrors and into their eyes. Makes them rather cranky. If you see your beam pattern heading toward their mirror, just pick up the pace a bit. BTW, trucks can be particularly sensitive to this and may take countermeasures you won't like. So be careful when passing. Low Beam Aiming Aiming is straightforward. First, find a completely level area that borders a wall. Drive right up to the wall and mark a spot on the wall directly opposite the center of each lowbeam. Then back up about 10 feet. You want the hot spot to hit just below and to the right of that mark, about 3 inches down and to the right. Here's what the pattern will look like, with apologies to you gui fans: / / / / X / X / ---------- ---------- The X is your mark. The hot spot is where the diagonal and horizontal lines meet. This will ensure that as traffic approaches, the hot spot won't be pointing up into their eyes. I've been asked why I run such high-powered lights on my cars. Personally, I think that most people vastly overdrive their lowbeams in anything but ideal conditions. So I like that extra margin of the additional light on the road. Aiming High Beams The procedure for aiming high beams is a little different than that for aiming low beams. The goal of aiming low beams is to ensure that the hot spot stays on the road in front of you and away from oncoming drivers, that's why you want the hot spot to gradually drop off the further away you get, with the top of the hot spot falling onto the road some 50 or 100 feet away from the car and to the right. With high beams you don't care about oncoming traffic, unless of course you're trying to fry retinas. Instead you care about maximum beam dispersion. So you trust the lamp designer to provide a good pattern with good light control and dispersion and simply aim them directly ahead or perhaps angled outward just slightly. It's a little difficult to do this using the low beam aiming technique because of the size of the high beam hot spot, but a modified version works. By the way, you do not need to re-aim the high beams of an H4 (single reflector) setup. Once the low beams have been aimed, the high beams are also properly set. The dual filament bulb casts low and high beams onto different portions of the lens, providing discrete beam patterns for each setting. Keep in mind that a quad setup has 4 lamps firing on high beam, since the low beams have a secondary pattern on high. Don't re-aim the outer lamps for their high beam pattern. In fact whil you're aiming the high beams, it is probably wise to unplug the low beams and deal only with the inner lamps. For the high beams, move right up to the wall described earlier. Make sure you're on absolutely level ground or the aiming will be thrown off. Mark an X directly opposite the center of each high beam. Now very slowly back away from the wall, taking care not to pitch the car with acceleration or to run into anything behind you... The high beam hot spot should grow around that X, but not move away from being centered on it. If anything, it should come up just slightly. Readjust as necessary. Fog lights Contrary to popular opinion, fog lamps are not designed to be aimed directly at the ground for maximum illumination or directly up into the air to illuminate low-flying aircraft. Fog lamps have a broad flat beam pattern with a sharp cutoff. They should be aimed directly ahead for maximum coverage, with a 5 degree or so downward slope to the beam pattern. For best road coverage they should be mounted below the bumper...for maximum protection they should be above the bumper...you choose. Aiming methodology is similar to that for low beams. On older lights I've had snow and ice create a thermal inversion that's cracked the lens. Hasn't happened recently though to either Bosch fogs on my Volvo or Hella fogs on the Saab (both factory supplied), but you should clear them of all snow and ice before you turn them on. And don't use snow to clean a lamp that's hot (learned that the hard way!) Other Auxiliary Lamps If you're adding driving or pencil beams, you know what you're doing. Checking Patterns Once all of your lights are properly aimed, you can run a couple of simple tests to verify. First, find a *very* level road. Turn your low beams on and walk about 75 feet away from the car. If you bend down, the hot spot of the light should strongly intensify as your head gets closer to the ground. The lamps should look lit but not blindingly so from normal height. Once you get to about a foot from the ground you should see the hot spot. You should also be able to see the beam cutoff on cars in front of you. As you move further away from the car in front of you, the cutoff should drop slightly. On level ground it should not be above taillight or trunk level. Aiming Mechanics There are two adjustments on each headlamp, one dictating left/right aiming, the other controlling up/down. These are little knurled knobs or similar, usually accessible from behind the lamp. These adjust how the entire lamp assembly is pointed in the assembly mounting structure, not the position of the bulb within the reflector, which is fixed. In addition, when you replace a bulb in a European style lamp (H4, etc.), you do not need to re-aim the lamp. In fact, when you replace a sealed beam unit, you should not have to re-aim that lamp either. (BTW, I had a set of Euro lamps that did have two separate bulbs in one housing with an adjustable high beam reflector, but that's a different story...) American spec lights all have fittings for a headlight aiming machine which aim them using bubble scopes rather than beam pattern. Some European lamps also have this fitting, but I'd trust my 15 years of aiming these things over a machine which would not be designed for European beam patterns. (Unless of course your parts place which sold you the lights *does* have a Euro lamp machine. I think the Tire Buying Place in Elmsford NY did at one point.) Also, BTW, if you are changing bulbs, make sure you don't touch the bulb portion of a headlight bulb with your finger. The grease from your finger on the glass of the bulb will cause it to overheat and fail prematurely. I believe isopropyl alcohol will clean it safely. The Law Legally, most European lamps are to be used for offroad purposes only. Sure! Replacement headlamps come with a sticker right over the lens that says so. I have *never* had a problem with either NY or MA inspection or police regarding any lamp I've run. (Keep the 8" rally lights covered) Other states and jurisdictions may be somewhat more restrictive, PA and MD particularly. So you may need to swap out lamps when you go to get your car inspected in these states. Or worse. Again, YMMV. I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on the Internet. You get in trouble, you're on your own... BTW, with enough lights on the front of your car, you may not need snow tires. Flip the lights on and instant dry pavement! Hope this helps. Please feel free to repost all or part of this anyplace you see fit. If you make any money with it, just send me half. Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com "Disclaimer? I don't need no stinkin' disclaimer!" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 19:20:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: subs to LRW From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 17:37:58 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO L R O 1 L R W 0 that should be the score board. I sent off a form for a subscription to the "other" Land Rover magazine LRW on 19 AUG of this year. I used THEIR promo form which states payment can be by credit card or "international money order". So i got a money order in Pounds Sterling from the good old Cnaadian Post office, which is cashable at any bank or post office in the UK. TODAY, i found it retunred from them saying that payments must be in the form of a cheque drawn on a uk account or a credit card!!! What an outfit, I ask you. Needless to say I will be on the horn in the am to really unleash my discontent, I will also call their editor to let him know what abunch of clowns they have working for them. BTW i have been using canadian postal money orders for years to the uk, work great, more secure than a credit card order by far, cos there is a refund available on them. rgds Outraged of Ottawa aka Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 20:22:03 1994 Date: 04 Oct 94 21:12:19 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Cc: Mike Fredette Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO Mike Fredette says: > ...my hard top is SUPPOSED to be here in 3 weeks,... Please give me your first hand opinion of the hardware and installation, I'd be very interested in hearing it (especially whether it can be done by one person in a reasonable amont of time). Thanks! Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 00:53:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Defender 90 success From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 21:12:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Jan Hilborn writes: > I have to concurr with Russ for Defender sales here in the east. I've > asked a round a bit if, say, oh, maybe in a year i might be able to get a > used 90 at a (somewhat) reasonable price and basically what i've heard is > that in a year or so i'll probably be able to get a *new* 90 at a > (somewhat) reasonable price. The common rumour up here is that the 90 is to be pulled in Canada. Sales are not there for it. $34k with a soft top, add $3k for a hard top and you are pretty close to the stripped Discovery at $39k. Rgds, Dixon PS. A site above mine somewhere is having major mail problems, so don't be surprised at the delays to responses or the possibility that mail may be getting lost. Though not for fourfold, at least I am getting a 56k link in my office later this week Time to add a new address to the mailing list (dkenner@emr.ca I think) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 22:04:28 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: subs to LRW To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 20:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Oct 4, 94 05:37:58 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1162 Status: RO Robin "Outraged in Ottawa" Craig writes: < L R O 1 L R W 0 It's a mixed bag, I suppose. LRO's editorial policy (or lack thereof) stinks, and LRW's subscription dept ain't got their act together. When I subscribed to LRW, I asked for it to start with Number 1, but they ignored my request and started me up at their convenience with Number 5. (At least the credit card option saves a lot of bank hassle and expense.) More disquieting news: LRW is not yet a year old and already on its third editor. Nigel Fryatt took over from Jerry Glenwright with no. 8, and two weeks ago, Alan Cade (sp?) came on board. Alan called me for urgent help: in the transition they lost half my manuscript scheduled for Dec. publication. (No problem: I faxed the missing pages.) I don't know the meaning of the rapid editorial changes, but the apparent disorder does not inspire confidence. I certainly hope they manage to stay afloat without alienating too many subscribers and contributors. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 21:41:16 1994 From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: subs to LRW To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Oct 4, 94 05:37:58 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1764 Status: RO > > L R O 1 L R W 0 > > that should be the score board. I sent off a form for a subscription to > the "other" Land Rover magazine LRW on 19 AUG of this year. > > I used THEIR promo form which states payment can be by credit card or > "international money order". > > So i got a money order in Pounds Sterling from the good old Cnaadian Post > office, which is cashable at any bank or post office in the UK. > > TODAY, i found it retunred from them saying that payments must be in the > form of a cheque drawn on a uk account or a credit card!!! > > Needless to say I will be on the horn in the am to really unleash my > discontent, I will also call their editor to let him know what abunch of > clowns they have working for them. > > rgds > > Outraged of Ottawa aka Robin Craig > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > Outraged Robin, Ah, the familiar feeling of being outflanked by sheer ignorance compounded by rank stupidity. If you really want to bring this to the attention of somebody who is motivated to do something about it (i.e., has a financial interest) call the publisher. The editor may or may not be inclined to take action; not his/her department, you know. Might not even be any communications. Kind of sad, though, that the UK is exhibiting these characteristics. I had the impression that this was the sort of thing that only happened in Third World countries and American financial institutions. Maybe they used to work for British Leyland. Commiserating in California aka Walt Swain From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 23:23:17 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Rovers at the Bay State Rover Club Rally Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 21:15:12 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I just got back from the Bay State Rover Club Rally and it was an interesting 700 mile trip without at functioning starter motor. (My starter worked until the first time it rained last week and then gave up the ghost of life. I think I'll going to try TeriAnn's suggestion of trying to revarnish it) The most interesting thing of the event in my view was the different type of Rovers present. Most of the events that I've gone had a grand majority of old Land Rovers and a few Range Rovers. This one was different. Here is an over view of the vehicles that were present: SIIA or SIIB Forward Control (the one was in the Rover's North catalog) 2 US Defender 110s 1 US Defender 90 (with dealer plates) 6 Range Rovers '85 German Spec 110 late SIIA xMoD 109 Pick Up SIIA 109 5 SIIA 88s (including the Badger) my SIII 88 2 or 3 Discoverys Quite a spectrum of Rovers. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 00:53:53 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 23:31:05 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > > 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and > > swap all the metric spanners for English ones. > Oooooh....I like it:-)Dixon,that's just *got* to go in the FAQ. Sure... :-) Though I never had any metric tools until I got the Rabbit a couple of years ago (since sent to its maker and replaced with a Saab 900 (had to get back to something semi British and the engine was the TR-7 lump)). Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 01:42:55 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:34:11 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: lotsa stuff Status: RO Well, I'll be. I certainly didn't know that! The two reasons I got an Internet address was for the LRO list and the Cognos Powerhouse list. Small world, eh? Is he a member of OVLR? Maybe I can get an LRO discount on the North American User Conference next June? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 06:49:22 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 07:45:19 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Allright, as a short timer here (uk) I'm going to stick out my neck and answer some questions... ------ From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu > What is "gel-coated GRP"? I think that is the UK phrase for fiberglass. (gel-coated glass re-enforced plastic) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Brabyn Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally > Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this > year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known > far enough in advance. >From little experience, I'll venture that it will continue to be held on the 'May (or Spring) Bank Holiday' weekend, which commonly falls about the same time as Memorial Day in the states (Monday May 29, 1995), I recall hearing that the host club this year is Linconshire, (and they are rumoured to have fun prowling about old quarries, which can be rough on vehicles). If you intend on entering any competitions,* you'll need to register soon, Due to some convoluted supremacy of the RAC (supreme automobile competition authority in the UK), you'll need to hold a valid RAC competition liscence to compete. For the purposes of the ARC nationals, this in practice, means you join a UK Rover ARC (and therefore, RAC) affiliated club, as full membership includes the appropriate right to compete, and insurance disclaimers, etc.. *speaking of which I don't recall seeing such in my recent Southern mailings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Walt Swain >From the discussion of problems at LRW and LRO: > Kind of sad, though, that the UK is exhibiting these characteristics. wrt the UK: 'customer service' is generally accepted to be an oxymoron on this island... though I must say I was amazed (in a positive way) during a recent trip to 'kwik fit' (muffler/brake/shock, etc. chain). Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 07:20:55 1994 Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service To: LRO list Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:06:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones In-Reply-To: <199410051145.HAA22332@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Oct 5, 94 07:45:19 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1182 Status: RO William Caloccia writes: > > From: John Brabyn > Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally > > > Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this > > year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known > > far enough in advance. > > From little experience, I'll venture that it will continue to be held on > the 'May (or Spring) Bank Holiday' weekend, which commonly falls about the > same time as Memorial Day in the states (Monday May 29, 1995), I recall > hearing that the host club this year is Linconshire, (and they are rumoured > to have fun prowling about old quarries, which can be rough on vehicles). > 27th - 29th May 1995 Blankney Park, Lincolnshire, England But was this the National Rally in question or was it with regard to a North American event? -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 07:20:51 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 08:06:21 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Bay State Meet To: LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.oswego.edu Content-Type: Text Status: RO This past weekend I attended the Bay State Rovers meet in Cape Cod. I arrived Friday at noon after a 6 hour drive in heavy stop and go traffic. Not fun. The wind on the Cape was estimated at 35mph and really cold (the national weather service said that the winds on the top of Mt. Washington were 95mph). I had to stake down my dome tent for the first time, and even at that the wind was blowing it almost flat. Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks was there with his well kitted IIA 88, his friend Dennis had a military 109 late IIA with canvas top, and another fellow had a recently redone IIA 88 in that new Defender green. Wow! Even though the bodywork had not been fully prepped, it looked great. It's a super color. Not many others showed up Friday evening and Jim and Cathy Papas were noticeably absent. Ben Smith arrived around 9pm after following somewhat questionable directions from myself bringing the OVLR contingent up to 2. After a downright frigid night (pull all the clothes out of your travel bag and pile them on your sleeping bag) some more folks showed up between 10 and noon. Jim Pappas brought his 110 and a 90, Andrew Cutting brought Jim's IIB(?) forward control, Mark Leteorney (sp) of Rover's North arrived with his '85 110, and Chris Velonis arrived that evening bringing a new 110 and a new babe (and a rather attractive one at that). There were several others I did not recognize bringing the total to the mid 20s. One of the Disco's included a rather attractive young lady. We almost choked when we found she was 14. Cathy Papas did a great job of flipping dogs & burgers on the grill for lunch, then we headed out on the off road trip. Chris Laws had to leave his Rover behind due to a snapped downpipe. The same failure reportedly happened to him last year. Forget about genuine parts. It's time for him to use some new parts for a change (Buy a new pipe, Chris!). The trails were tight with brush on either side and hard packed for the most part with some softer sandy stuff here and there. A little mud could be found but nothing you could get stuck in. There was one section where the bikers had made some woop de dos, which made for a rather entertaining drive. At mid point, we parked in a wider softer sandy area where Mark gave a winching demonstration. Very informative with a strong emphasis on safety. That evening Jim had a catered clambake at the campground. I'm not a clam fan, so I passed, but the folks that took part enjoyed it very much. Jim passed out canvas Range Rover bags to the club members with Range Rover Visors and mini binoculars. Ben wasn't included until I suggested he join the club. He did and got a bag out of it. Jim also had many photos and specs on the new Range Rover. It's a good looking vehicle but even if I could afford it I couldn't afford to maintain it. There seemed to be 3 distinct cliques/groups that evening. The Land Rover contingency down by the lake who brought their own food & beer for the most part, the Range Rover/Disco crowd that did the expensive clambake at the high ground with more beer, and down in the lower reaches of the campground below the outhouse lurked Chris Velonis in the DEAD ZONE. With all the music, beer, and accompanying social activities normally found at Dead concerts. I discovered the reason folks bought the 110 Defenders, and that was so that you had enough room to carry your cubic yard of CDs. Ben was right, this was a rather different rally. Later in the evening Jim fired up a portable generator to power a TV and VCR showing Land Rover videos. There wasn't a site in the campground that didn't reverberate with the sound of that generator. The two other organized "events" were a raffle and a folder of Rover parts to be identified. Both were held after I left, but Ben was kind enough to bring back my winnings. I received another Range rover bag with visor, a Range Rover Beer cooler (pretty neat-now I have a place for my extra Land Rover patch), and a box of ROVER cookies. Baked with 90wt for sure. Speaking for myself, no rally is complete without coming home with some goodies. And aside from the items I won, I bought a Bay State sweat shirt to replace my OVLR sweat shirt for the weekend (Oh, oh, I can feel the flames coming). The Bay State sweat shirt was MUCH heavier, and as I am not anywhere near as hardy as my fellow OVLR members (I've never skinny dipped with Dixon, Dale, or Bates in a frozen lake), I had to put survival first. I must confess, the sweatshirt did make a difference. It would be a bit much in the summer, though. I also got from Ben 100+ feet of his big bloody rope. We made it an even trade for my spare clutch master and slave rebuild kit (yes, it was a fair trade). Saturday night rained cats & dogs and I decided to leave early Sunday morning. Fortunately the weather cleared and the route I chose to take home, although being 20-30 miles longer, saved me an hour and a half off the direct route using 95. Over all, it was OK. The best part was getting to see everyone again, and I really enjoyed meeting Andrew Cutting from the UK. Also it was nice to see Mark in a setting away from Rover's North where he was just one of the guys. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 09:28:58 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 09:59:06 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Leaving right now (Wed. 10 AM) for the rally site, as there are still a few loose ends to tie up. If you are planning to attend and have not registered, bring your own food, as the final numbers have been given to the caterers. As of PM Tuesday, over 60 Rovers from as far away as Sarasota, FL had registered. All marques too, from a '51 Sries I to new Discos. For those who wanted T-Shirts, there probably will not be any left...we printed up twelve dozen and they are *spectacular* in SIX print colors. I expect them to sell out quickly. All of the parts suppliers have donated some really great prizes: ABP gave a receiver-mount bike rack, BR a hi-lift, RN a MAX tool and CCC Auto Accessories some great enamel Land Rover signs. And of course, the Camel Trophy stuff from RJR. Reports to follow.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 10:04:25 1994 Date: 05 Oct 94 10:50:44 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Next Land Rover National Rally Status: RO John Brabyn wrote: >Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this Next years's ARC *Inter*national Rally (as it is now called) will be held on the british spring Bank Holiday * May 27 - 29 1995 * at a site just south of Lincoln and hosted by the 'Lincolnshire Land Rover Club Ltd'. For further information, call or write snailmail to: Eric Rawlings, 23 Banovallum Gardens, Horncastle, Lincolnshire LN9 6PN, voice: 0507-526847 Cheers, Stefan LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 11:16:43 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 11:34:56 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Rollbars & Softtops To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO At the Baystate meet a fellow with a IIA 88 had a rollbar fitted along with hoops & a canvas top. The horizontal side bars that connect the front and rear hoops are mounted on the outside of the bars at the front (instead of inside) and seems to cause no problem (I would take care to make sure there are no sharp edges to contact the top). The rollbar attaches to the galvanized body cappings 1.5" aft of the front hoop. He had to cut a 1" hole in the lower part of the capping to allow the fitment of the rear nut for the rear bar mounting plate. It's similar to the hole for the mounting of the center side hardtop brackets. He purchased the roll bar from DAP for around $200. It looks like a nice set up (the bar is a Lightweight roll bar). Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 12:05:07 1994 Date: 05 Oct 94 12:47:06 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: New Range Rover & the men behind it Status: RO Folks, I came across a very interesting article by a Chris Barrie in the british daily newspaper "The Guardian" of 29 Sept. (on page 19, section 'finance and economics') that gives some insight to the possible cause for Solihull's latest success, especially with the new Range Rover, and reports about a truly unique and new approach to personnel management. To save bandwidth I'll just quote the most interesting parts. ************************ PRESS CLIPPING ************************* "Selecting an elite from all production lines for a new model wins the associates' vote if it means jobs for life." "Land Rover, the Midlands-based specialist vehicle company, put workers through psychometric testing and extensive interviews when choosing the team that is to build the new Range Rover, which is unveiled today. The vehicle, which has cost BP# 300 million in development and production equipment, is being assembled by 650 workers selected from Land Rover's other production lines. The workers, or associates as they are called, were only accepted for the project once they had been interviewed for their attitude and "compatibility", and passed psychometric tests. Such tests are designed to reveal personality traits via analysis of answers to questionnaires. The workers' performance records were also scrutinised. ... *** TEXT OMITTED *** ... people had been chosen according to their readiness to fit in with Land Rover's new culture. With the aid of outside consultants, the company and its selected workers set about devising a set of rules and standards for the new production line. Under the acronym "Conquer" - _C_ommitment, _O_ne team open minded, _N_o second best, _Q_uality image, _U_tmost honesty, _E_ffective communication, _R_espect - the team is supposed to be loyal, uncompromising in its drive for quality, have a sense of humour, consider others' opinions, lead by example, be friendly and share knowledge, accept there is no demarcation, and give praise and reward where due. There is also a ban on line-side smoking and eating... *** TEXT OMITTED *** ...Team managers lead the workforce in the assembly of the car. They were selected after a day of tests and trial presentations to managers, and are seen as key players in the drive to keep quality standards high on the shopfloor. They also had a say in the design of the cars's key components, ensuring that assembly is as easy as possible. Lineside manuals on how to put the car together are written by the teams. Productivity is up by a whopping 50 per cent, with the new Range Rover needing just half the time to build of its predecessor. " *** TEXT OMITTED *** ... ******************** END OF CLIPPING *************** How's that? Seems they've come a long way from the old British Leyland days when 2/3 of a workers time was spent with union meetings, strikes and tea breaks ... Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 12:45:35 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 10:39:17 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, rich@apricot.co.uk Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service Status: RO Many thanks for the info folks, but actually I was referring to the US one. Sorry for not making it clear! My mistake. Anyway, I'd love to go to the UK one as well!! John Brabyn California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 16:37:43 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 17:31:04 EST To: lro@team.net Subject: Source for Discovery service manuals? Content-Length: 415 Status: RO Has anybody either purchased or heard of basic service manuals for the Discovery, along the lines of Chiltons, Haynes or Bentley? It's for someone who wants to be able to do basic maintenance (oil change, etc) on their Disco, not take the whole thing apart with a nail clipper... If you do, could you let me know so I could pass the information along? An ISBN and publisher would be very helpful. TIA, Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 20:41:34 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@team.net Subject: Rover V8s: cold and confused Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 18:33:07 Status: RO Back in March, a asked if anyone had experience with the Rover 3.9 V8 petrol in cold weather. Basically I had a few experiences last year in my Defender where the engine got confused in cold weather. The battery/starter worked, it had fuel, the engine was turning over, there was exhaust coming out the pipe, but the starter kept going and the engine wouldn't turn over. It seemed like the system was doing the EFI-equivalent of flooding itself, perhaps its sensors were confused by the temperature. This happened once in the BC Rockies in -60 condition after not having started the vehicle for 2 days (fingers were freezing to the engine block checking things out). But 2 other times it did this in my driveway, in much warmer (probably between 0-32) conditions. In response to my earlier query, Russell Burns replied: I had the same problem with my Range Rover. I also noted that a lot of Rovers were in the shop for the same problem. I will admit changing plugs in -30 f and pouring hot water over the intake manifold is not what I expected from my rover. My isuzu always starts. I have heard that if you don't step on the gas you will avoid this problem. I have not had enough -30 degree weather to verify this. Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM updates). The local Rover dealer mechanics (and their calls to LR North America tech support) both claim ignorance to any kind of problem like this, so I was hoping to find out if anyone else had this problem, or if this was a fairly isolated phenomenon? And if anyone has any advice on ways to help prevent/resolve this kind of problem, I'd love to hear them. what about the Kenlow heater as seen in LRO magazine? what about the stock engine block heater (could I rig this up to work off a spare auto battery?)? etc. Anyway, other Range Rover, Discover, and Defender folks, if you have any advice, please let me know. And you lucky Series II/II folks, please don't laugh too much that I can't simply pull out the choke and have it WORK... Thanks, Lee ps: one of the mechanics at the local Rover dealer is interested in this mailing list, I'm trying to get him setup on the Internet so he can post participate. __ Lee Fisher, leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621, 74750.776@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 19:55:19 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: RALLY-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU, lro@team.net, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: lighting science (or lack there of) (long) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 20:51:28 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO broadcasts: >Subject: lighting science >Since I'm a confirmed quartz halogen junkie Admission is always the first step to recovery, you can seek help now when you're ready. :-) > I buy my bulbs from Imparts. They seem to offer the best prices on bulbs at > about $11 or so per high powered bulb 90/100 or 100/130. They also have high > powered 9004s Nice little blurb for 'em, they're generally a quality place, and given that most outlets flog bulbs for much more, they've not unreasonable, but but generally no fantastic deals either. >I've run 80/100s in H4 ... No problem with ... blinding people. At least that is what you think, 'cause obviously you're not attuned to what oncoming traffic experiences or you've screwed up your own aiming directions. [which were rather well written] > I'm currently (ahem) running 90/100s ... I've got a set of 100/130s in the > toolkit just waiting to be installed when the last of the 90/100s goes. > Proper aiming of the lamps will help keep you from blinding people, > but the fact is that in some circumstances, coming over the crest of a > hill for instance, Right, THE FACT IS YOU WILL always blind some oncoming traffic due to their physical location: Traffic below Traffic crossing your beams, such as on bends Traffic while passing Traffic on frontage or slip roads (parallel tothe offside) Occasionally Yourself Occasionally Traffic straight ahead That last two has everyone thinking 'this guy is nuts', well I am, but keep reading. Under weather conditions where there is fog, drizzle, or snow, this intensity (> 55W) of light will create a dazzle, that will affect the visibility of the oncoming driver, and it will also actually reduce the effective operating range which you'll get out of your lights. Additionally, anytime during rain, or on wet roads, your mega-watt head lamps will point where you set them, and then hit the water on the road and will be reflected ahead, and scattered a little, which will create a nasty blinding glare for oncoming drivers. [Though being in the Northeast, you probalby misjudge their flashing to be their dim bulbs bouncing over the pot-holes.] At this point, those of you who have some experience here, or have studied the chemistry of human optics, will realize that large amounts of light consume the available chemicals in the rods in your retina, and it takes about two minutes for you to fully regain your night vision, as those depleted chemicals are renewed, etc. Now those of us who have some sense, probably squint and look toward the offside pavement markings, but I think we can safely presume there are a set of drivers who are either clueless, or or shouldn't be out driving in the first place. Keeping in mind that their not capable of using their mind, and like that deer dead ahead they've fixated on your headlamps and trying to figure out what to do next. While your ton of steel is approacing thier tone of steel at something between 60 and 130 mph (depending...) > the concentrated light from the H4 will bother people > no matter whether you've got 55 watts or 130. Years ago, before the auto makers lobbied legislators to allow 'aero' headlamps, and the mass introduction of H9004 lighting systems, I would have agreed that 55W halogens bothered the general populace, most of whom were used to on coming traffic having tungsten filament bulbs which had long degraded to less than 75% of their luminosity (from new). Today, Halogen 9004s are the normal fare, and the difference between the standard 45w and a 55w is generally not perceived to be annoying. Under many advers conditions 85w bulbs are easily annoying. > Passing can also be a problem. Don't linger behind someone as you're > passing them. The "hot spot" of your beam pattern shines right on their > mirrors and into their eyes. Makes them rather cranky. > BTW, trucks can be particularly sensitive to this and may take > countermeasures you won't like. So be careful when passing. For having earlier stated that running high powered lights is 'no problem', you've certainly become aware (evidently by pissing off other road users) that they can be a problem. > I've been asked why I run such high-powered lights on my cars. Obviously cause you're a junkie > Fog Lamps > For best road coverage they should be >mounted below the bumper...for maximum protection they should be above the >bumper...you choose. Aiming methodology is similar to that for low beams. If you have a vehicle with unusually high bumpers, the mounting of fog lamps well above the ground will not serve you well, some places explicitly state upper limits for the height of fogs. > Other Auxiliary Lamps > If you're adding driving or pencil beams, you know what you're doing. Probably not, but then we're stuck with whatever these junkies decide to do. Now, flaming you along isn't a very nice thing to do, so I'll continue to explain what is 'in my humble opinion': To start with I'll state that I'm the last guy (ok, maybe not the very last guy - I've got a dime and I'm not going to call the FBI and tell 'em that I've invited uncle ho and chairman mao over for dinner), but the last guy who would tell you not to run higher power bulbs or auxillary lights on your vehicle. What I would suggest is that IF you get combination H4 bulbs, you ought to get dipped (low) beam and fog lamps bulbs that are of a reasonable strength - 55w or 60w. Run excess wattage in the high beams, and/or driving lamps. If you've got H4 based bulbs, look a little harder and you'll come across the maker of 55w/80w bulbs or even 55w/100w bulbs. This will allow you to present a civil amount of light to oncoming drivers - in any position or condition, and it will give you a reasonable strength low beam that won't cause a large amount of dazzle back to you when it is foggy or snowy. At the same time you run about as strong a high beam as is usefull in most hi/lo lamps. I personally can't understand why anyone would want to put in greater than 100w into a mass manufacturer high beam, 'cause those lamps are in some way compromised. Putting stronger bulbs in stock mustang 'aero' headlamps is in my opinion, putting extra energy in mostly useless places. I'd hold the same true for putting the higger wattage bulbs in standard european 7" or rectangular reflectors. The additional energy will get some additional distance, but it is still likely you'll have major dark spots for high speed driving. If you're out on the street, at lower speeds, odds are you're either on a twisty fun road, or in a populated area. In either case, greater distance straight ahead is of marginal use to you, and a hazard to oncoming, as they've havn't recovered from your dazzle when the reach the hazard you've just passed. Under these conditions fog lamps, which can serve duty as cornering lamps, and in populated areas will also assist in illuminaing to the sides, can assist in identifying short people, small animals, and other objects at or near the side of the road. At higher speeds, there is either on-coming traffic, so you'll be running dipped beams, or the world is your oyster, and you can run what you brung (within reason). The factory or converted high beams give the basic coverage, add driving lamps to fill in the voids left by the regulated lenses, and if you've already got the fogs mounted, they'll come in handy as you're flying down those unpaved parts setting up to practice the Sweedish flick... >The Law as I recall new jersey had on the books a limit to the number of forward facing lamps (six ?), so if you started out with 4 from the factory, you lose > Hope this helps. Please feel free to repost all or part of this Not a bad collection of thoughts, but you never did cover the science part of it, so I'll add that, from the last time this was thoroughly discussed (and yes, I've got the rest of the articles, memoirs of a foglight bone-head, as it were :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" - Start Included Article - Copyright 1994, 1989: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Article: 1291 of rec.autos.tech From: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Subject: Re: Re: Halogen H-Style Bulbs and Foglights Summary: (60x2 + 55x4 +100) watts / 11.8volts = 37.3amps < [and yes, when I wrote this, I confess that I did have: 2x 7" Marchal H4 conversions 55/60w, 2x 7" Marchal 900 55w Fogs, 2x 55w Hella 155 driving lamps, and 1x 100w 7" Marchal 900 Pencil Beam. < on the front bumper of my car '79 honda wagon... Keywords: Hella, Cibie, Marchal, who is PIAA anyway ? Message-ID: <524@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> Date: 29 Dec 89 06:54:45 GMT References: <8681.257ea2f9@ecs.umass.edu> <7750006@hpfcso.HP.COM> Organization: HoNdA'S 'r' uS, (aka HaLo'S 'r' uS, HeLlA'S 'r' uS) Lines: 127 In article <7750006@hpfcso.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Post) writes: >Regarding the recent discussion on foglights: > >So, how do they work? Does anyone have any idea how they work, technically. Hmmm, considering the discussion, you could be talking about halogen bulbs, fogs, or everything, so here goes: Halogen Bulbs: Design & Mounting differences The differences between the H1, H2, and H3 bulbs are basically mechanical in form. Each has a different orientation of the filament with respect to the base, and each base is different. Further references will describe the tip of the glass as the 'top' the metal base as 'bottom', the top-bottom axis is the 'TB axis'. The reference to the filament, refers to the coiled portion '_//////_'. In the H1, the filament is in line with the TB axis. (One application is in the Hella DE 2000 (Ellipsoidal Reflector) Fog Lamp. It enters from the side or bottom of the reflector.) The H2's filament is perpendicular to the TB axis. (?), while the base is basically two 'fins' which are at the bottom of the lamp. (Marchal uses this lamp in their 900 series Parabolic reflector Lamps, it sits in the center of the reflector.) The H3's filament is perpendicular to the TB axis. While the base is about the size of a quarter, and perpendicular to the TB axis. (This is used by Hella in both the 181's (rectangular), and in the Factory fogs for Mustangs. It enters the rectangular lamp from the bottem, in front of the reflector, while in the slim-profile (circular) mustang lamps, it enters from the center of the reflector.) The H4 is a dual filament bulb, used in 7" diameter 'conversion' lamps, and some rectangular lamps. The new 'aero' headlamps use a closely related '9004' bulb, which has a radically different base. The H4's top is masked (always ? sometimes?), and both filaments are roughly in-line with the TB axis. the filament closer to the top has a sheild, so as to illuminate only half the reflector, and thus provide the 'low' beam. the second filament is located below the first, and has no sheilds. (This enters from the center of the reflector.) Actual positions of the bulb's entry in the lamp housing (center, bottem, side) vary with manufacter, and reflector design, for the H1, H2, and H3 lamps. Halogen Lamps: Basic Theory For operating prinicple of QH lamps I'll refer to "Automotive Electrical Handbook", (Jim Horner, HP Books). As for the operating principles of the Halogen (Quartz-Halogen) based bulbs, the basic tenants are that (1) the quartz housing allows higher temperature operation than glass housing, as well as providing optical clarity, and a minimal thermal expansion. (2) the 'halogen cycle'. tungsten vapor given off by the filament is redeposited back onto the filament, extending its life significantly. this also pratically eliminates bulb blackening. (3) in the halogen atmosphere, the tungsten filament can operate at a much higher temperature, producing 'whiter' light. (you know, colour temperature and all that) Automotive Lamp Applications: Fog (rain, snow) will reflect light, thus, any light which rises from the lamp, will be reflected back into the drivers eyes. Thus the designer of a fog lamp want so aim the light forward and down. Typically a good fog lamp will have a vertical dispersion of about 8-12 degrees down from the horizontal. The horizontal dispersion will be about 110 degrees. This puts light on the road in front of the vehicle, and to the sides, but puts no light up to reflect back into the drivers eyes. The fog lamp housing will incorporate a sheild to prevent light from leaving the bulb and then reflecting up. Fog lamps have a relatively short throw, the best being under 700 feet (Marchal 900 series, Hella Rallye 2000), typically the throw is about 500 feet. Fogs are also referred to as 'cornering' lamps in some circles, because of the very wide pattern, allows one to get a good view of where the road is going in corners. Amber lenses or reflectors will diminish output slightly, while providing better visibility in foggy and snowy conditions. Fogs can annoy oncoming traffic when they would normally be in your lowbeams, AND when the oncoming lane is lower in elevation than your lane, even if it is across the median. Low beams vary slightly with the design, especially the new Ellipsoidal Reflector designs which have shown up on the BMW's and in the latest Nissan Z-cars. Basically, a european dipped beam (low) will level to the left of the lamp axis, and rise slightly to the right (for left hand drive). This pattern provides for road illumination ahead, and rises to show more of the edge of the road on the right. The vertical adjustment of dipped beams is from 0 to 4 degrees below the horizontal, they don't point up in the air. The dipped beam has a short throw, similar to fogs, though is much narrower horizontally. High (or Main) beams generally are designed to throw light further than the low beams, and spreading the light up and down from the horizontal axis. Driving lamps will usually have a narrower beam which projects further than the high beams, and should be wired to shut off when the main beams are dipped (on low). Pencil beams are interesting but of limited utility under normal circumstances. Their extremely narrow beam has a very far throw, and as such is of limited utility, unless you like illuminating street signs two miles away, or run an interrogating service. Some of the 'off-road' lamps are of different designs, using a 'PAR' (Parabolic reflector) lamp which is a sealed beam. These are offered in many different styles (flood, short throw, long throw, spot lamp), and are usually shock mounted in cases. They are designed for a different environment (namely, no oncoming traffic), and thus are quite rude on the road, while being fine for driving through the back country and getting a good handle on the trees and bushes coming at you. Also, the PAR lamps are much more costly to replace than the replacable H1/2/3 bulb, but probably less costly than replacing the lens/reflector unit which houses the H1/2/3 bulb. next ! I plead insomnia. -------- "tcp-ip doesn't care whether it's twisted pair or baling wire. :-) " -- quote attributed to Kent England, BU - End Included Article - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 21:05:25 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: leefi@microsoft.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 18:59:51 PDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com>; from "leefi@microsoft.com" at Oct 5, 94 6:33 pm Status: RO jjj> > Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will > help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM > updates). > Can you forward me more info on the Prom updates. Price? How many Roms it takes to run a Rover.? Do you notice any difference? Are these the 20MPG version. We are also supposed to have another cold winter, and if this would help, it sure would be easier than drying plugs out at -30 Russ Off to Va. for the Rover Rally From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:17:30 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:13:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Source for Discovery service manuals? To: llevitt@idcresearch.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9409057814.AA781403464@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Try CARTECH at 1-800=551-4754. They might just have what you want. I know they have the other Land Rover Books. Dave VE4PN. PS I am hoping to have their catalogue in a few days. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:40:34 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:22:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: leefi@microsoft.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well I have not owned a modern Land Rover, mine have all been the Ser IIA and II types, but I do drive modern 4x4 with fuel injection and I often drive in Northern Canada where it gets to -40 etc. The trick is don't under any circumstances touch the gas pedal or you will be there a long time. For very cold weather you really need a battery blanket since most batteries are toast after about -20 when they are less than efficient. Lots of people up here use recirculating type heaters. They are easy to install and they have the added advantage of keeping the internal heater core warm as well, so when you start up you get warm air immediately. The types we use look like a soup tin with a top and bottom pipe connection. They have an element inside, and because of convection, they move liquid through the block and rad all night long. This keeps the fuel injection system warm as well , not just the oil like a pan or dip stick heater does. There are some very small models that fit right inside the large rad hose, so you don't need much space. When I say inside, I don't mean you push it up the hose, I mean you cut the hose and insert it between the cut pieces, but it is only about two inches deep so you don't add much to the length. At work, we shut the block heater plugs off for the weekend, and we turn them back on Monday morning at about 4 A.M. At -40, the vehicle is ready by 8 A.M. to be started and driven. Our biggest problem is frozen transmissions not engines that won't start. By the way, because water at -40 is a real drag, we use these magnetic brick type heaters for spot heating. On the aluminum of course you just have to sit it there, but for heating the pan, a frozen transmission or a dif, they work well. I notice the long haul truckers here use a thing called a "Tiger Torch" It is a pipe with a tap on it that has a hose with a fitting for a large Propane tank. They blast the engine and trans and diffs with it till things get warm and then off they go. Lots of them up north where I go, and they use them for just about any spot heating problem. May not be great on our leaky LRs however :-). By the way for those who like cold, my wife's cousin phoned from Alberta. They had 50 CM of snow in Waterton with 5 foot drifts and the road to Pincher Creek was blocked. 50 CM is about 20" I think. Good Land Roving eh :-) Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:51:24 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Universal joints Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 20:48:52 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO While I was getting ready to go to the Bay State Rover Club Rally, I discovered that one of the universals on my front propeller shaft was shot. Of course I discovered this the day before I intended to leave. I went down to the local NAPA autoparts and found an identical spider for the universal. The part was made by Spicer and the part number is 5-153X. The cost was about $10. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 08:40:20 1994 Date: 06 Oct 94 09:31:44 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Status: RO David John Place is right in pointing out > ... don't under any circumstances touch the gas pedal Apparently on 'cold start boot' the EFi computer enters a fairly simple trial-and-error loop, the likes of Procedure ColdStart while not (ignition) do begin waitfor(6 x starter_revolutions); if (motor_running) then ignition :=true else inc(fuel_air_ratio); end; End; (This is not the _real_ program, but as I would imagine it to be!!) It seems the program does no timeout-checking and, at this point, doesn't evaluate air flow or trottle opening, but assumes these to be fixed (default) parameters. Now if you begin pumping the gas pedal you're changing external parameters the program isn't aware of, it misses the crucial 'firing point' where the fuel-air chemical is right, and enters into an endless-loop, injecting fuel, and more fuel, and yet more fuel, until the cylinders are drowned... Another thing, I recall reading somewhere in the V8 workshop manual that the computer will perform erroneously if effective voltage drops below a certain level (I think it was 5 volts?) for any length of time. Now if you take a very cold battery, further drained by turning over a cold sticky engine (I assume you would be wise enough to disengage the clutch when cranking over at low temps??) then there might come a point where the computer looses its transient memory due to low voltage. Apparently the computer doesn't have a built-in backup battery either. BTW, I've heard of freaks doing 'chip tuning' to efi systems. They pull out the original ROMS, transfer the program to EPROMS, debug and improve the software, and stick the reprogrammed EPROMS back in place of the old chips. Does anyone have more information on this? Stefan <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:51:25 1994 To: lro@team.net Cc: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Rover V8s: EPROMS In-Reply-To: Your message of "06 Oct 1994 09:31:44 EDT." <941006133143_100043.2400_BHJ59-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 07:44:43 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Stephan asks, BTW, I've heard of freaks doing 'chip tuning' to efi systems. They pull out the original ROMS, transfer the program to EPROMS, debug and improve the software, and stick the reprogrammed EPROMS back in place of the old chips. Does anyone have more information on this? > > Well I don't know that you would call us freaks, just everyday ordinary folk out for MORE POWER! The EPROM replacement business is very large here in the US, where we Americans have a seemingly insatiable thirst for more horsepower. I tried one of these little babies on my 93 BMW 325is, made by DINAN Engineering. It claimed an boost of 18 percent in the horsepower deparment, going from 189 to 223, and it raised my mileage from 22.5 to 26. The chip cost almost $600 US, and if you have an automatic, I didn't, you had to buy two chips, one for the engine, and the second for the trans. There are lots of ads in the US magazines offering chip upgrades for various makes and models. The only one I've seen for our Solihull pride and joys is made by an outfit called ROVERCRAFT. They advertise in LRO as a chip upgrade sold in combination with an exhaust refit to boost horsepower to 190 on the 3.9L V8. Not very impressive considering it started at 182. That in combination with the cost of L458.25 makes a little discouraging. Of couse you CAN spend more to get more. L783.34 get you a new camshaft and associated bits to give you 225 BHP. And if you're really an enthusiast ( OK, a FREAK), L1774.45 nets you another 10 HP to 235 BHP buy adding a "complete performance" exhaust system to the above mods. I'm not one to scoff, but L1000 seems a bit steep for an exhaust system. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:07:10 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:03:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@team.net From: Dave Subject: LRovers in Canada? Status: RO Dear all, There is a possibility that I may be moving from the UK to Canada (Toronto), which means I will have to sell my 1980 Series III SWB. Does anyone know if LRovers are available in Canada? I suppose ideally I'd like to get hold of a second hand 90 Turbo Diesel (Yup, I wanna move up in the world!) So if anyone has any info on availability, pricing etc, I'd be really greatful! Cheers for now, Dave From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:10:46 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 08:05:45 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. Status: RO >In message <199410041629.MAA08508@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" > > >Hope you get it fixed OK. >> >> Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest >> on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the >> foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? >> I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a >> couple of weeks. >> >> Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu >> King George, Va. >> '66' IIA 88 RHD >> > > > >Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a > half. >I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more >money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. > The >price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow > mw >to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can > get >a before photo of the Green Rover. > > > > >TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world >twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards >LINK: TWAKEMAN >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 If you're coming out this way, you should stop by Scotty's anyhoo. Mine will probably be there (at least one of them), and who knows how many others. Plus, Scotty's a great guy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:16:40 1994 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 08:07:13 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, lro-request@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, Offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: GOT MY '94 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY!!! Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: GOT MY '94 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! Ahem... um... "Oh, by the way... I received my new Land Rover Discovery last night." Absolutely incredible vehicle!!! I had it in the dirt within 2 hours of picking it up, I... well... I "HAD" to try it out! ;) Sigh... how on earth am I EVER going to get any work done today??? Well, there's always Tomorrow. ;) Administrators: Please update my Bio: Vehicle: '94 Land Rover - Discovery Automatic Leather seats Dual Air conditioning Dual sun roofs Jump seats (seats 7) Rino bars Rear lens guards Tinted windows Pin stripes (This should last long!!! ...RIGHT!!!) Black Wish list: Winch Off road lights Expedition rack Rear door latter (for rack) Skid plates (Anyone know any sources?) Nerf bars CD stacker Deep water snorkle air intake (Anyone know any sources?) #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:18:22 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) (maloney) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:11:50 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "maloney" at Oct 03, 94 9:33 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Steven asks: > > >> > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > encouraged). > >> Bill replies: > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If > I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a > flash. :-) Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a little ahead of his time. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:35:43 1994 From: Tom Luteran Subject: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:22:58 EDT Cc: toml@hpwadck.wal.hp.com Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Thought you all might be interested in this piece which appeared in HP's Measure company magazine. Enjoy! Tom -- (This is not to be reproduced without permission from the author, Tom Ulrich, Tom_Ulrich@hp6600.desk.hp.com) ....................................................................... Making History OXFORD, England -- If history is written by its survivors, the men and women of Rover Group have a compelling story to tell. Ninety years in the making, Rover evolved from a nineteenth century West Midlands bicycle manufacturer to a worldwide supplier of twenty-first century automobiles and trucks. Provincial from the start, Rover adapted to the global marketplace through partnerships with British Leyland (1968), British Aero- space (1988), Honda (1990) and BMW. Driven to compete internationally, Rover recast much of its product line before BMW purchased the lone British automaker in 1994. Since 1990, Rover Group introduced series 200 and 400 coupes, redesigned series 600 and 800 sedans, launched Land Rover Discovery and rolled the first MG RV8 off an Oxford production line. Rover emerged from an age of uncertainty in top form. Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel display. TestBook, a new generation of precision instrument, grew out of a partnership between Rover Group and the Integrated Systems Division of HP. "We were looking for a company that had both computer and test and measurement expertise," says Project Director David Lawrance Hallgarth. "We were looking for a tool," he adds, "that combined diagnostic capabilities with vehicle information to assist a technician making a repair." "Rover did not want an off-the-shelf solution," explains John Morris, ISD's project manager. "So we worked with them closely to deliver a product that met their specific needs." Rover and ISD engineers equipped TestBook with a vehicle communication interface, digital instruments, expansion slots, battery pack and a touch screen display. Before this electronic toolbox arrived at Rover dealerships across the globe, service technicians struggled to maintain all the computer technology that design engineers placed in late-model automobiles and trucks. Diagnosing hard-to-find electrical faults, such as a flawed headlamp assembly or an intermittant sensor, are among the greatest challenges facing service departments in the 1990s. Industrywide, they account for 20 percent of a dealership's repair log and are the major reason for repeat repairs. "Traditionally, a technician diagnoses electrical faults by swapping parts," David Lawrance Hallgarth explains. TestBook combines computer-driven service tools and diagnostic strategies with on-line service information to guide a technician to the source of a problem and suggest a repair. It contains a digital voltmeter (volts), ohmmeter (ohms) and ammeter (amps) for evaluating an individual component or a complete electrical system. These on-line tools find answers to complex electrical problems that technicians with hand-held tools often miss. With touch screen technology and a direct link to the engine-control computer, technicians use TestBook to identify and repair faults that appear in the base engine and electrical systems such as anti-lock brakes, gear box, lamps and power windows. If the headlamp circuit fails, the technician need not spend two or three hours pulling connectors apart, swapping parts and perhaps, creating new problems. He can follow the prompts given by TestBook, perform the necessary tests with its electronic tools and fix the problem; tasks that should take him about ten minutes to complete. TestBook tracks the fault to a single wire or connector and specifies the procedure for making the repair. The technician can review the latest service information, product manuals and technical data using a CD-ROM based, technical information system. Once a technician completes the repair, TestBook prompts him for the cause of the failure. TestBook records this information and transmits it back to the factory so that Rover engineers can design even more reliable automobiles and trucks. For elusive problems that occur on the road, a technician uses a customer flight recorder (CFR) that he plugs into the vehicle's data-communication link and sends home with the customer. When trouble occurs, the driver presses the button and the flight recorder gathers diagnostic information. After the recorder captures the data three times, the customer returns to the dealership where the technician uploads the information to TestBook and completes the diagnosis. TestBook reduces the time it takes a technician to find an electrical or engine management fault by an average of 20 percent and helps him to diagnose the problem correctly the first time. "Dealers are surprised by the usefulness of TestBook," says David Lawrance Hallgarth. To outfit a workshop with all the equipment required to service and main- tain a modern automobile, dealers must purchase an engine analyzer, smoke meter, gas analyzer, diesel tester, suspension tester and wheel alignment rack. "Every time a dealer buys a new piece of diagnostic equipment, he buys a personal computer," says Brian Cade, principal engineer for TestBook. "From now on, a dealer needs to buy one PC -- TestBook." TestBook executes all functions for engine analyzers sold by Bear, Crypton and Sun. This electronic toolbox, with its guided diagnostics an on-line service information, will replace the meters and the gauges found in a dealership workshop by the middle of the decade. "There are as many people involved in the development of TestBook as the development of the new MG," says Paul Chappelle, product manager for the diagnostic computer. TestBook required five develop- ment teams within Rover and six within ISD. Together, HP and Rover assigned the project 75 engineers. "HP Support for TestBook has been phenomenal," says Andy Griffiths, Technical Support Manager for Land Rover. "The partnership between Rover and HP works well." "This alliance changed the way we do business," says Bill Russell, Computer System Operation Manager for HP Europe. "We no longer limit our success to short-term gain. Bringing TestBook to market demanded that we develop a strategic application with the customer following the production schedule of the cars and trucks it is designed to serve." Six years in the making, TestBook grew Rover Group from a (pound) 1 million to a (pound) 50 million account. It is part 1 of Rover Group's long-term strategy for combining service, sales and parts information across a company-wide data highway. "Rover's commitment to TestBook is bigger than a model release," admits Andy Ridyard, diagnostic engineer at Land Rover. "For a model release: you launch and in a few years time, it will go." "TestBook is like the Range Rover without end." (Tom Ulrich writes for HP's Integrated Systems Division in Sunnyvale, California. He wrote Another Roadside Attraction, an essay about Biosphere 2, for the January-February 1994 issue of Measure.) -- +----------------------------------------------------+ | Thomas Luteran | INTERNET address: | | Hewlett-Packard Company | toml@wal.hp.com | | Medical Products Group | HP TELNET: 1-659-4770 | | 3000 Minuteman Road | VOICE: (508) 659-4770 | | Andover, MA 01810 | FAX: (508) 686-1258 | +----------------------------------------------------+ + Opinions presented above are my own & not necessarily those of my employer + From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 11:44:50 1994 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 10:39:07 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Netters Going to VA Rally? To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Are any other netters going to the Virginia Rally? So far, I know besides myself, Sandy Grice (of course), Russell Burns, Mike Lodice, and Ben Smith will be there. It would be nice to be able to connect the faces/Rovers to the names. See ya there! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:14:03 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:49:17 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:49:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. Priority: normal Status: RO > Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has > four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- > thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 > microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM > reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical > computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel > display. Ah, but what's the badge on the front? (If it's Land Rover, can I get one for my my PC? :} ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:06:47 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Speaking of Scotty's, etc. To: sinasohn@crl.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 12:58:40 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410061505.AA15391@crl6.crl.com>; from "Roger Sinasohn" at Oct 6, 94 8:05 am Status: RO > > > >Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a > > half. > >I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more > >money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. > > The > >price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow > > mw > >to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can > > get > >a before photo of the Green Rover. > > > > > > > > > >TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > >twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards > >LINK: TWAKEMAN > >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 > > If you're coming out this way, you should stop by Scotty's anyhoo. Mine will > probably be there (at least one of them), and who knows how many others. > Plus, Scotty's a great guy. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > > I might just do that - I'm going to be busy - daughter getting married, etc. - but may be able to sneak away for awhile. I'm going to be in the Campbell and Santa Cruz areas the week starting Oct. 14th. Where exactly is Scotty? Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu King George, Va. '66' IIA 88 RHD From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:30:57 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: leefi@microsoft.com Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have only had experience in 0-30 F so not extreme cold -- so far havent had any problem (knock on wood). However I seem to remember being mailed a service notice a year or so ago from LRNA via the dealer, about starting in high altitude / cold weather. I am afraid I might not have kept it, but it indicated that they acknowledged the problem existed. I think their proffered fix was just not giving it throttle or something like that. Anyway harrassment of LRNA might get a response?? I have found in very cold weather a couple of other annoying things like one of my door latches getting very stiff. You would think RRs etc would be specifically immunized from these conditions! The trouble is when it's that cold outside you can't even investigate the problem or you freeze to death. Let us know what you find out John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:22:48 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:18:30 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: Russell Burns Cc: leefi@microsoft.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused In-Reply-To: <199410060159.SAA15641@lint.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Yes if you could send all of us the ROM info it would be greatly loved. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:23:20 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:20:09 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: David John Place Cc: llevitt@idcresearch.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Source for Discovery service manuals? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 5 Oct 1994, David John Place wrote: > Try CARTECH at 1-800=551-4754. They might just have what you want. I > know they have the other Land Rover Books. Dave VE4PN. PS I am hoping to > have their catalogue in a few days. > > Let us know if they have RR manuals as well. I have the factory manual, which is pretty good, but I always find the more manuals the better! Thanks John Brabyn 89RR > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:32:12 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Universal joints In-Reply-To: <199410060348.AA178065329@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 5 Oct 1994, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > While I was getting ready to go to the Bay State Rover Club > Rally, I discovered that one of the universals on my front > propeller shaft was shot. Of course I discovered this the day > before I intended to leave. > I went down to the local NAPA autoparts and found an > identical spider for the universal. The part was made by Spicer > and the part number is 5-153X. The cost was about $10. > As a matter of interest, I foun=d out that u-joints for RRs are also available from the usual US foreign poarts suppliers for about $20. I don't know who they are made by though. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:55:01 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:42:06 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Status: RO On the general subject of EFI etc, does anyone know whether a diagnostic instrument is available to plug in to the connector used by the dealers to diagnose problems? There is a manual diagnostic procedure described in the manual, which I have used, but it takes a long time using a multimeter. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 14:28:26 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 12:08:27 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, sinasohn@crl.com, Roger@apple.com, Sinasohn@apple.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Speaking of Scotty's, etc. Status: RO In message <199410061700.NAA05995@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" writes: > I might just do that - I'm going to be busy - daughter getting married, > etc. - but may be able to sneak away for awhile. I'm going to be in the > Campbell and Santa Cruz areas the week starting Oct. 14th. Where > exactly is Scotty? > > Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu > King George, Va. > '66' IIA 88 RHD > Jim "Sotty" Hawet, lives at the end of a dirt road in Concord CA. It is a little East of Oakland and a 3 to 4 hour drive from where you will be staying. He is a very interesting person to talk to and has a lot of Land ROver knowledge. When he had his old British car shop, he was a dealer authorized warenty repair shop for Land Rovers. Generally Sundays are the worst day to visit. You can reach his answering machine at 510-686-2255. If he is in the shop and near the phone he might pick it up, but most of the time you will get the recorder. copy in:Show ClipboardHide Clipboard Undo <<<>>> Redo <<<>>>(Unable to display contents at the momentUntitled-<<<>>>closingquitting CanUt Undosave revert JN^ _\ONP From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 22:11:46 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:16:10 +0800 From: growl@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@team.net, hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Subject: Re: First Oil Change on New Disco X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 922 Status: RO > > Part II: > The manual says to refill the oil before changing the filter to avoid > draining the pump prime. The service guys advised me to just replace the > plug prior to removing the filter. Make sense? > > No longer waiting, > Harry I'd believe the manual on this one, the pump will stay full if the filter is still on. But, since you are changing TYPES of oil, you want to get out as much of the old oil as possible. For THIS first oil change. I would drain everything at once, then follow the manual on subsequent changes. The procedure in the manual minimises the time that the engine runs before the oil pressure comes up. Something I always do to to help this is to fill the new filter as full as possible with fresh oil before screwing it on. Hold the filter at about the angle that it mounts when you fill it so you won't have oil running down your arm when you screw it on. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 17:16:27 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:57:36 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <941006133143_100043.2400_BHJ59-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I think you could overcome the memory lapse from a cold vehicle, and I intend to try it up here in Manitoba, but using the solar panel you plug into the lighter socket. This will "trickle charge" the battery keeping it warm, and it will keep the battery up to you won't loose the memory. I realize that most of the cold times are at night, but in Manitoba, we often leave the vehicles outside during the day when we are working, and since we are up in areas where there is no power, I think this will be a good trick. I have seen this unit on sale lately for as little as $39.00. Most marine dealers have them if you have problems getting one. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 22:11:26 1994 To: lro From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Date: 6 Oct 94 18:57:12 EDT Subject: Thanks posting about the Bay State Rally! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Status: RO I've just moved to California (Bay area) and I was not able to make the rally this year. :( Looking forward to meeting the CA rover folks! John Hong From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 19:46:55 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:44:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: First Oil Change on New Disco To: Land Rover BBS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1277 Status: RO First things first: I got the call Friday night. Two hours later I was in heaven. We had waited four months for a 5-speed. Although we thought we wanted the base model, the loaded one that came in was too nice to pass up. As it is, Beluga Black, 5-speed, leather, dual sunroofs, rear seats and A/C. Saturday morning, the salesman took me on their offroad course in a Defender to show me how to handle obstacles and work the transmission. It was incredible what that thing could conquer. I have always been a believer; now I am a witness. Okay, enough rejoicing. My question: Being the loving owner that I am, I intend to change the oil after the first 1000 miles (which will be momentarily). I have been persuaded by the rec.autos.tech crowd to go with synthetic. What's the best weight to use? The dealer suggested 10W40 or 15W40, but the only synthetic I can find is either 5W30, 10W30, or 15W50! The manual implies you can use most, provided the temperature doesn't hit the extremes ( I live in Maryland). Part II: The manual says to refill the oil before changing the filter to avoid draining the pump prime. The service guys advised me to just replace the plug prior to removing the filter. Make sense? No longer waiting, Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 23:21:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 90 hard top From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 22:48:43 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO TerriAnn says to take off the roll bar from the NAS 90's and slap a regular hard top on. great idea, except that the NAS 90 has no bulkhead behind the seat and the roll bar is designed to be an integral part of the vechile. Great idea though TerriAnn, good lateral thinking. regards Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 01:12:14 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:07:06 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 4-cylinder cookery Status: RO I went out to Scotty's last night, and did indeed try cooking brownies on the engine. (Sorry, TerriAnn, I'm not sure I can make it this weekend.) So, it took me about 50 minutes to get from my place in San Francisco to Scotty's in Concord. When I got to Scotty's, the Brownies were still fairly liquid. (Had it been a college dorm, spoons would have been whipped out before you could say "raw cookie dough".) The side closest to the engine seemed to be closest to being fully cooked. I think another 20-30 minutes would do the trick. (Getting stuck in traffic would just about do it, I think.) I used one of those disposable aluminium loaf pans you can buy at any grocery store. I paid $1.79 for 3 of them. I mixed up the batter, then poured it into the pan. The pan slid right in (with a little coercion) between the carburetor and the top of the engine on top of the exhaust manifold. It worked great, and would work for lasagna, spaghetti, just about anything. Or, get a non-disposable one, and wire it in, then just toss your ready-made burrito (wrapped in foil, of course) in to the pan and don't worry about it going anywhere. Sure makes me wish I drove more! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 03:34:18 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Carradine Subject: First Oil Change on New Disco To: Harry Greenspun Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Congratulations on your new Discovery purchase!! Regarding synthetic engine oil, I use Castrol Syntec 5W50 religiously. The viscosity range exceeds the 10W40 and 15W40 recommendations by your dealer. It's available here at Price/Costco for about $24 per case of 6 qts. (Cheap insurance if it helps the engine live longer!) Also consider replacing the gear oil with synthetic, such as Redline 75W90. I replaced the oil in the 8 - 10 odd places of my Series III (gear box, transfer case, overdrive, rear and front differential, left and right swivel ball housing, steering box and steering relay box) and it definitely runs quieter --less friction!! Since were on the subject of vital Rover Fluids, consider using silicone in the brake and hydraulic clutch systems instead of the Girling brake fluid. Silicone brake fluid does not absorb air (cause of mushy brakes) or water (cause of metallic corrosion), is less susceptible to heat (as in heavy braking), and is chemically compatible with synthetic rubber seals, etc. Also note that regular brake fluid can take off body paint, while silicone will not. Redline also has Silicone Brake Fluid, as the brand name implies, this technology comes from racing, their products have been used and tested in extreme environments for years. [Redline (510-228-7576), 3450 Pacheco Blvd., Martinez, CA 94553 USA] --Michael cs@crl.com Michael Carradine Carradine Studios / Architecture Development Planning NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Vmail 510-945-5000 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 05:11:18 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Oct 94 07:55:24 BST." <199410070655.HAA06091@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 06:05:07 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > Being the loving owner that I am, I intend to change the oil after the >first 1000 miles (which will be momentarily). I have been persuaded by >the rec.autos.tech crowd to go with synthetic. If you've got only a thousand miles on it, then you should not have been winding it out, and you've not yet completed breakin. Sure the rings and stuff have seated, but there is going to be some more breakin when you start to wind it out and really load it up. Generically, I've been told not to use synthetics until the vehicle was up to 5000 to 7500 miles. (One at 1500, one at 4500, then synthetic at 7500, etc.) If your engine is not well broken in, and you go to synthetics, some unwanted things can happen. Most of the stories are a bit dated now 'cause they're from the introduction of synthetics in the early eighties, but on the engine side I doubt Rover is shipping pickled & race-ready engines. > What's the best weight to >use? The dealer suggested 10W40 or 15W40, but the only synthetic I can >find is either 5W30, 10W30, or 15W50 If you go way north in the winter the 5 or 10w30 may be one for you, if you're going out to Moab or death valley in the next 25000 miles then you'll probably want to consider the 15W50. YMMV. Failing a positive answer to 'will you experience extremes of temperature', coin tossing works well for this type of question. :-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 07:20:24 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:19:01 EDT From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils Status: RO LRO@team: Commenting on automotive mechanics is very dangerous for me (since I know less than nothing). However, I am interested in this subject, so I thought I'd fish for comments/expertise on the net. A lot of my info below comes from _Drive_It_Forever_. > Generically, I've been told not to use synthetics until the vehicle was up > to 5000 to 7500 miles. (One at 1500, one at 4500, then synthetic at 7500, > etc.) One of the supposed advantages of synthetic oils is that they allow you to really go the "recommended" service interval (7500 miles for the Disco) between oil changes. I gather that's because synthetic oils don't "break down" (whatever that means) as easily as natural ones. It seems like another reason to change oil more frequently, though, is driving in dusty environments (e.g. off-road). In fact, the author of Drive It Forever (I wish I could remember his name), recommends an oil change immediately after driving on a dirt road, no matter the mileage. I can't speak for anyone else, but my Disco goes off-road fairly frequently. I can't really afford to change the oil and filter every other week, though. The most reasonable compromise to me is to change the oil every 2500 miles, whether the oil is natural or synthetic. At that interval, I'm not sure synthetic makes sense. Right now, I think I'll go with plain old 10W40. Comments? BTW, I can second Bill's suggestion to stick with natural oil for the first oil change. The mechanic that gave my Disco the once-over (I bought it used), said I could consider synthetic, but NOT for the first (and really the first two) oil changes, which he recommended at 1500 and 4500 miles. _____________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom (404-514-3522) email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 07:39:16 1994 Date: 07 Oct 94 08:27:47 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: Rover V8s: EPROMS Status: RO Mike Fredette remarked: > <...snip...snip...> ... but L1000 seems a bit steep for an exhaust system. > 'rather' , as the English would say... I went quite the other way when recently rebuilding a V8 EFi from an 87' Range I literally 'carried away' at another one of those groovy bancruptcy auctions of assets from a defaulted company (ok, I confess, I'm a scavenger for Rovers...). For pistons, I ordered the set with the *lower* compression ratio, actually stripping 12hp from the original power rating (an anathema, I suppose, to the average american motorist?!). The desired effect of this is that it can run on low-octane lead-free regular (the price gap between regular and super in Europe is *considerable*, and what they sell you as 'super' in eastern european countries I wouldn't even put in my petrol camping lantern...). At the same time it increases the cubics slightly (approx. 0.3 l), yielding more low-down torque which in my case comes in handy as I have no inhibitions taking the Range on hard offroad-runs. Besides, having grown up with an old VW bus and a 4-cyl. 109, anything above 100hp is heavens to me ... Stefan <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 11:22:58 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:12:47 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 90 hard top Status: RO In message writes: > TerriAnn says to take off the roll bar from the NAS 90's and slap a > regular hard top on. > > great idea, except that the NAS 90 has no bulkhead behind the seat and > the roll bar is designed to be an integral part of the vechile. > > Great idea though TerriAnn, good lateral thinking. > > regards > > Robin Robin, The 109 four door does not have a bulkhead behind the seat ether. Bulkheads behind the seat are necessary for pickup tops but not full hard tops. I'm making the assumption that Rover took a Defender 90 and added things for the North American Spec. I don't see why you can't undo a little of the add on and end up with a body that can take a standard Defender 90 hard top. I guess I'll have to stop at a dealer to see what the big deal is about the roll bar. Wings are supposed to be an integral part of the car too, but you can unbolt them and drive around just fine. My latest lateral thinking has to do with camper pop up tops. It has been drought to my attention that the fiberglass pop up tops on Doormobiles are the same as was used on the pre-1968 VW camper vans. I'm finding myself wondering if the vertical pop up top on post-'68 VW campervans would fit the top of a 109. I'll measure my 109 Sat when I go to visit (begining to feel like a divorced parent who does not have child custidy). There is a VW campervan for sale near my house. I'll put the tape to that on the way. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 11:58:34 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:53:23 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: disc brake squeaking Status: RO The thread on synthetic oils etc reminded me of the other semi-fluidic substances used to stop disc brakes from squeaking. After I replaced the pads on my RR, I have had this proble. On the front ones, which I did first, I put some Permatex anti-squeak stuff, but they squeaked anyway. So I asked the local dealer what they use, and they said "nothing". So when I did the rear ones, I used nothing, and they squeal too. In both cases I used the Land Rover Genuine Parts (asbestos pads -- yuk!) Any insight on this would be appreciated. Many thanks John Brabyn California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 12:05:42 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:58:39 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: synthetic oils Status: RO I have observed the synthetic oil phenomenon as it has developed, and have these questions: 1. If it's so great, why isn't it used and specified by the engine manufacturers in new vehicles? 2. The question of expense aside, is it really going to preserve my aging engine (90,000 miles)? (I should note that the said engine already uses more than its share of oil). Cheers John Brabyn Mill Valley Ca 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 12:08:20 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 10:04:51 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: Oil Consumption Status: RO The fairly consistently high oil consumption of my 3.9V8 is a bit disturbing. It has used at least a quart per 1,000 miles ever since I got it at 50,000 miles. I noticed someone said that excessive consumption on a new Discovery was due to leaking inlet valve guides or seals. How does one tell if this is the cause, or if heavy duty stuff like piston/cylinder/rings is at fault?? (The vehicle now has over 90,000 miles on it). I'd be interested in any advice. John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 14:30:15 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:24:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Welcome to California Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO John Hong writes: >I've just moved to California (Bay area) and I was not able to make the rally >this year. :( >Looking forward to meeting the CA rover folks! > Welcome to California, John, we will be looking forward to meeting you too! If you are ever going to head up 101 from the Bay area, let me know and I'll tell you how to find my place in Redwood Valley, not far off 101, and you're welcome any time! ;-) This goes for anyone else on the list, as well, of course. 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 14:31:43 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:25:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Koenig Winch For Sale Status: RO I wish to announce that I have the following item for sale: Koenig winch, 9,000#, engine driven, for Land-Rover, $600 or reasonable offer. The winch is, as I understand it, a 9,000# model (and appears to be designed for 3/8" cable). It was last installed on an 86" Series I and was removed from that vehicle when sold, about 1970 or 1971. Since then it has been stored indoors. It is complete with all controls, etc. and is in very good condition. It has a roller fairlead but no cable. It lacks only the simple drive piece which replaces the starter dog on the front of the engine. I believe that this part can still be obtained from Koenig (in Texas, which still manufatures fire pumping equipment) or can easily be fabricated. It has all the rest of the drive apparatus. I did some digging in old Aluminum Workhorse issues and elsewhere to try to find some guidance as to the price that I should get for this beast. I found nothing, only people looking for them. The only asking prices for these I can ever remember having seen were Kellog-the-Corn-Flake's prices, so not much of a guide (well over $1,000, if I remember correctly). My feeling is that it should be worth somewhere around $550 to $600, considering that it is minus the drive piece and has no winch cable, and considering that I traded a new Fairey overdrive for it. I have had it for about eight years but have not installed it. I have offered it first to a couple of Land-Rover owners who had previously expressed an interest in it. So far, I have not gotten replies from either of them, so I am offering it to anyone who may be interested. I would not be considering selling it except that I need the cash, as quickly as I can raise it. Therefore, for this item, I am not interested in trades. Thanks! Reply to Granville Pool or call (707)463-4265 (work, between 8:15 and 4:30 or so, M-F, or (707) 485-7220 (home). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 16:01:09 1994 Date: 07 Oct 94 16:51:29 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Please Repost for Taylor Sutherland III Status: RO On 4 Oct C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: >> The people that were importing the LR's that were due the 4th OCT. I got the mail but in attempts to save it, the editor ate it. I would like an address, so I can decide because.....>> Here is the info! 24 hr Pager 011-44-81-3456789 (quote ATH 60, leave message and we will call you back) Fax 011-44-51-707-2075 US# Oct 22-30 508-385-6632 We are currently shipping a refurbed Series II, due in New York October 20th. I am also arriving into New York that Friday and will be driving the Land Rover to Cape Cod. It is currently for sale, and if you are anywhere in the area and would like to view the vehicle, send me an email. Here are the details: An 88" refurbed short wheel base (1960) Series II a.k.a. " Gyndwr " (Glendower)-chassis excellent. Genuine bronze green (enamel paint) body, limestone top and wheels. Recently reconditioned 2.25 liter petrol engine. New clutch, battery, oil pump, road springs, brake pipes, shock absorbers, Solex carburettor, etc. Spare tire on bonnet with (new) Land Rover logo tire cover. All new heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout, fully soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, heater, headliner and interior side trim , 2 rear spotlights, (5) 600X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps. 7 seater - all new deluxeLand Rover black front seats (3 in front) with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Rear Safari door. Hand throttle. Antenna - wired for radio. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. Rear wire lamp guards. Tow hitched front and rear, with rear wiring. more... New workshop manual (still sealed) & parts catalogues supplied. $8400 including all shipping/duties/etc- open to offers. Beginning refurbishment 88' short wheel base (1968) Series IIa Military a.k.a "Guinness" - Chassis excellent. High gloss black (enamel) and gold trimed hard top-bringing it right down to bare metal and new paint to be applied soon. 45,000 miles - recon diesel. All new doors and footwells. Spare tire on bonnet with (new) Land Rover logo tire cover. All new heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout (optional) , soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, Wraparound bullbar with 2 front spotlights, (5) 600 or 750 X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps. 7 seater - two black bucket seats w/ headrestswith standard middle seat in front, with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Drop down tailgate with removeable hardtop swinging door. Military pick and shovel fitted. Radio/speakers installed. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. Rear tow hitch with wiring. Heater. more.... New workshop manual (still sealed) & parts catalogues supplied. Several 109" long wheel base Series II Safari station wagon. Chassis excellent. Totally reconditioned engine and gearbox. Tropical Roof with arctic windows. Refurbishment to begin soon. Many of the same above features. 1956 fire tender in pristine condition. Only 3000 miles. Fire engine red. 200 gallon a minute pump on rear with two tall side lockers (great utility truck) Drives beautifully. All seals, gaskets tires etc new. Just released from factory service. Inside factory for entire life. Really fun, but also very functional utility vehicle. Like new. If you are interested in seeing the 88" send me an email...... Cheers, Leslie Stutsman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 16:10:55 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:06 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil Consumption To: John Brabyn Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410071704.AA18293@skivs.ski.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO John, you can usually tell if the seals on your valves are bad by seeing if you get a puff of blue smoke just when you start up your vehicle. What happens is, because the seal is poor, oil runs down the stem of the valve into the combustion chamber. When you first fire up that chamber, the oil is burned creating smoke. The second and subsequent operations don't have any oil to burn so the engine runs clean. It is a very simple job to replace them. The best way is to use air pressure applied through the spark plug hole to keep the valve up while you take off the spring and retaining clip. The seal is just a little rubber umbrella with a tiny spring in it that goes around the shank of the valve. You can pull off the old one and put a new one on in a few minutes. I haven't tried it but my friends tell me that in place of the air pressure method, you can put small diameter rope in the chamber through the spark plug hole and turn the piston up to the valve with the crank or by turning the flywheel with a bar. I guess it would work fine. Just keep a piece of the rope outside the spark plug hole to retrieve it :-) or you might have to have a bon-fire to get it out. You don't have to take off the heads or anything to do this job. Only loosen off the rocker arms and go to it. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 8 01:51:21 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: traceable wiring From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 20:05:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild. Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in the harness, that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear brake light wire. So neat and so simple eh! ttfn, of to see mickey ,hope to spot soem Lr product down south Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 21:45:53 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:33 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: burns@cisco.com, leefi@microsoft.com Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO >jjj> >> Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will >> help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM >> updates). >> >Can you forward me more info on the Prom updates. >Price? >How many Roms it takes to run a Rover.? >Do you notice any difference? > >Are these the 20MPG version. > >We are also supposed to have another cold winter, and if this >would help, it sure would be easier than drying plugs out at -30 > > >Russ > >Off to Va. for the Rover Rally But most importantly -- Do these ROM's include Tetris?!? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 21:47:04 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:36 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, maloney@wings.attmail.com Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO >> >> Steven asks: >> >> >> >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > >> meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > >> (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of > this, >> but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) > maybe >> you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > >> encouraged). >> >> > >Bill replies: > >> When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > >> bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if > I >> turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). >> >> At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip > and >> one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. > If >> I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off > in a >> flash. :-) > > >Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for >good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a >little ahead of his time. > >rd/nigel Oh come on! This is Lucas, we're talking about. The parking lights are supposed to flash *all* the time! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 21:47:10 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:44 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. Status: RO >> Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has >> four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- >> thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 >> microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM >> reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical >> computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel >> display. >Ah, but what's the badge on the front? > >(If it's Land Rover, can I get one for my my PC? :} > > > ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 >Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. >WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ > Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ >#======================================================================# >I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do >Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. Heck, can I get one for my HP3000??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 8 11:42:26 1994 Date: Sat, 8 Oct 94 12:34:09 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Electric Land Rover specs sought Status: RO >Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 09:15:40 -0700 >Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Sender: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >From: Richard A Childers >Subject: Electric Land Rover specs sought >X-To: EV%SJSUVM1.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU >To: Multiple recipients of list EV > >"Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:39:03 -0700 > From: Bob Rickard > Subject: Re: EV friendly/unfriendly insurance companies > >"Our electric 1971 Land Rover is insured through Safeco. They asked what > components were used and wanted a photo of the vehicle. Standard policy, > no problems." > > >Well, heck. Land Rovers are well nigh unto indestructible ... (-: > > >I've occasionally eyed Land Rovers as candidates for conversion. Does >anyone know what the curb weight, minus ICE, is of one of those beasts ? > >It certainly has the suspension and cubic for a good number of batteries. >With the energy density of batteries bound to increase in the next years, >this is not an impossible dream. > >The flat roof would make a good mounting surface for solar cells, such that >the vehicle could ostensibly recharge ( albeit, not very quickly ) just by >sitting in the sun. Or you could carry more cells inside ... assemble them, >and charge the car over a few days' time, while camping ( and drawing off >judicious amounts of power for lighting and communications, perhaps ). And >there's always the generator on a trailer or tucked in under the hood ... > >Now, _that_ would make a vehicle to cross the United States in, and write >a book about. You could even carry towing equipment, and give stranded cars >a tow to the next gas station. (-: > > >-- richard > > "I gathered I wasn't very well liked. Somehow, the feeling pleased me." > _Nine Princes In Amber_, by Roger Zelazny > > richard childers san francisco, california pascal@netcom.com >Electric Land Rover specs sought > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 8 15:03:39 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: silicone BF Date: Sat, 08 Oct 94 16:00:23 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Most SCCA racers (IT sedans, etc.) I know *don't* use it. There is the purpose-formulated AP 550 and the AP 600, which you'd have to change before every race, though the club racers say the hot ticket is Mercedes Brake Fluid or the Ford Heavy Duty Break Fluid - both are high boiling point and relatively atmosphere-stable so they don't need to change the fluid just 'cause its sat for a week. [Of course, to my knowledge, neither is compatible with natural rubber seals as L/R owners are familiar with.] Those gear-head drivers I know who have tried it have not liked it, 'cause the silicone, (new or used) is slightly more compressible, and to them it gives an unacceptable 'spongy' feel. On the other hand a mechanic friend of mine recommends and regularly installs silicone in his customer's cars for the low-maintenance qualities - and since it doesn't absorb water, things won't rust from the inside out. I always used the Ford stuff in the 'stang and the XR4, the 'stang was done done just before BMW driver's schools (usually once in the spring, and once in the fall. Before going to higher spec fluid I would have liked to have milled the face of the rotor (a concentric circle or crossed lines in the surface of the rotor will provide the surface of the brake pads gets fresh air twice+ times per revolution). When you get down to it, most of the time improvements in braking will come from keeping the brake materials cool (hence milled -> vented -> cross drilled rotors, with ducting and vaned wheels that suck the air out). YP(ad)W(ear)MV I used Castrol LMA in everything else. Somewhere early on I learned what colour brake fluid was supposed to be, and recall reading that it ought to be flushed at not more than 2-year intervals. How hydro-scopic the LMA was didn't matter on my decade-old '78 honda wagon, 'cause most of the brake parts were rusting from the outside-in, so that inevitably got updated yearly, if not more often :~& Amazingly enough what's in the resivoir of my IIa is still clear and doesn't appear contaminated after a couple years (low mileage though it may be). As for this RR, where did I put the mity-vac ? Of course, if you haven't done the conversion to silicone before, you should note that normal brake fluid is considered a contaminant to silicone, so you've got to flush all that old stuff out, before you can start loading up the silicone. Sounds like a bunch of work eh ? No wonder my mechanic friend recommends it to his customers... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 9 18:35:51 1994 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Sender: "JFisk1120" To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 09 Oct 94 19:29:12 EDT Subject: Survey says..................... Status: RO Just received the latest issue of "Industry Week" which includes an article titled "Hot Wheels for Big Wheels". In the $20,000 to $30,000 range, top executives are choosing the Land Rover Discovery (beating out the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Ford Explorer). They feel that executives choose with both high quality and relatively low cost in mind. The picture of the Discovery tire high in mud doesn't quite fit the "suit" image, but who cares....maybe they are smarter than we think! Just let me know where I can get a Discovery for under $30,000 this year! Jan Fisk "I brake for mud puddles" Springfield, Missouri 1964 Land Rover Series IIA 1991 Range Rover From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 05:47:32 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Land Rover on Film..Again. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 11:42:50 BST Status: RO OK,so you've all seen it before."White Hunter,Black Heart". Clint Eastwood et al.On Channel Four TV (UK) last night. Apart from an immaculate Dakota (DC3,to you),the Land Rover content was *much* better than the plot.(Plot? ummmmm). Made,according to the credits,in Zimbabwe,there was a S1 107 station wagon,minus door tops,a 107" pickup,several 80/86/88" S1,a white 109" station wagon,with a *very* modern looking roofrack,what looked like an ex mil open 109 S11, and the star of the film(Eastwood?whose he?)was a topless S11,or 11A two door 109",sans doors.In fact the camera crew obviously got bored with the film.The 109 was filmed posing against the sunset(lovely shot,that),interior shots over the dashboard abounded,ther were Land Rovers posing everywhere. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 10:35:05 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 08:28:32 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: New L.R. Discovery... 1st 5 days. Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: New L.R. Discovery... 1st 5 days. Hello all, It's now been 5 days since I picked up my new truck. And I can now say that I have my "official Arizona desert brush pinstripes." (OUCH!!!) Also, first tank of gas: 12 Miles per gallon, and $27 WOW! First "sticker shock", then "pump shock". Guess I've never really had to use premium before. ;-) Oh well, that's what credit carcards are for... right??? Anyway... I still LOVE the truck, but have some questions for you "all". What type of wax or..??? can I use to help prevent brush scratching? Where can I get a "Tracker/Lojack" (Locates vehicle if stolen)? #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 10:52:20 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:49:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Sender: Harry Greenspun Reply-To: Harry Greenspun Subject: Disco Fuel Economy better than expected! To: Land Rover BBS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Length: 386 Status: RO Although I, too, was afraid of the Disco's gas mileage, we have been pleasently surprised. After being tipped off by the owners manual that the engine is most fuel-efficient between 2000 and 3000 rpm, we have been very attentive to the tach. Consequently, we have managed 16 in mixed driving, and over 19 mpg on the highway. Thank God for that 5-speed. Peppy, too. Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 19:09:51 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: FYI: AOL (America On-Line) is selling their subscriber list Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 19:02:19 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Reply-to: /dev/null And from what I understand, when you signed up they asked you all kinds of questions - like your income, what kind of computer you have, etc. Not to mention they've built up their own little payment history on you... See the latest comp.risks digest or go find the front page of the buiness section of the San Jose Mercury today (5 Oct 1994). Don't for get the address of the Direct Mail Marketing Association, to request that your name be taken out of circulation... Cheers, -B From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 19:48:25 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:44:06 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: jory@figment.mit.edu Subject: Oil pressure and synthetic oil Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Hi Jory, did you get any reply's regarding the oil warning light coming on at idle? My Range Rover '85 is doing the same thing all of a sudden. Slow idle, warm engine light goes on, apply a little gas and it goes off. Im also using synthetic oil and Im a tad worried as well. If somebody gave you an "inexpensive" B^) explanation please forward it to me. Regards Kjartan Bergsson Iceland kjartan@ejs.is From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 20:17:43 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 19:13:35 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rovers-TV and Things Status: RO Since nobody has mentioned it yet, I don't think, a Range Rover finally showed up on Northern Exsposure. I have watched the show since it started and this is the first. It was BRG, four door. Looked to be brand new and Maurice, one of the main characters had it. He was trying to impress a lady of minor Brit Royal blood. Rover was great, Maurice blew a chance at some in-door camping with the lady. Oh well! Enough RR jazz. I am close to putting the head back on my 69 21/4. When I took it apart, like a good boy, all of the head bolts went in a piece of cardboard in the location they came from. However one of my fine black felines decided that that cardboard served a better pourpose on the floor. Now the bolts are mixed up and of differnt lengths. I can't find a ref. as to which goes where. Help!! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -What Class III oil leak, Sir? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 21:48:03 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:29:31 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil pressure and synthetic oil To: Kjartan Cc: jory@figment.mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410110044.AAA01795@soho.ejs.is> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Before you get to excited about the low oil pressure, I would check the sender and I would put a "real" indicator on the oil galley line. The sensors are often not very accurate. Most times they fail to come on when the pressure drops, but from time to time they come on too soon. Only a good analogue gauge will tell you what is really happening. I have seen American cars that according to their instruction books, can have the oil light come on at idle and this indicates nothing in particular. It must however go out at higher speed to form the lubrication wedge and take away heat at the bearings. I think the old LRs could drop to 15 pounds at about 800 RPM without too much to worry about. At 2000 however under load they better be something like 50 lbs or you have a problem. Mine after I rebuilt it to specs and I used platigauge runs at about 65 lbs at speed and never drops below 50 even when really hot. Like some other owners however, when I do a panic stop, the pressure can drop to near 5 pounds for in instant on the indicator. I know this doesn't mean anything in particular because you can hear the valve train in an engine once it starves for oil. Mine is always quiet except on start up when I get valve noise for about 5 seconds. For peace of mind have a mechanic put a pressure gauge on the engine or better yet, take the valve covers off and see if the oil is sqirting out. It it is getting to the top of the engine, it is getting to the bottom. The only time this rule doesn't hold true is if you have a plugged galley, but in a new engine that is about as likely as winning the Loto :-). One thing people using the synthetics should find out is, does mixing synthetic and ordinary oil cause sludge. Some oils are not compatible and they form a waxy substance. This shouldn't hurt the engine particularly, but it might plug up a galley after time or plug a pressure hole in a gauge etc. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 02:23:44 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 02:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rallye To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Been there, seen it, got the T-shirt. You know, I never realized until I got home that the T-shirt says "Rallye, Meet, BBQ and Storm". Well folks, it was all of that and more. I had a great time, even if I couldn't bring my Rover. Hat's off to Sandy and all the folks in the ROAV for putting on a first-rate get-together. There was something for everyone, including some fine off-roading that wasn't on the official list of events. There is something about that Virginia red clay and a little water. Great mud! Lot's of folks from all over with all kinds of interesting Rovers. One of you guys who knows how to write probably tallied it all up but I think there were around 60 trucks - including an incredible 80 inch RHD Ser I. No,no, it wasn't restored and shiney but it ran and preformed flawlessly and did a much better demonstration of what a Land-Rover should be than any of the Disco's or Defenders did. The owner say's it's for sale too - but why he would want to sell it is beyond me. Some fellow netters were there - possibly some future ones too. Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :) Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too. Thats all from me. Oh.. Sandy.. let's do this again next year.. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 03:42:10 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 03:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"sinasohn@crl.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Here we go again... > >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > > > >> meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > > > >> (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of > > this, And then we added our humorous comments... So.. While at the Mid-Atlantic Rallye, I had the chance to pose this question to a Disco owner. (Does John Travolta own a disco?) Really, I had nothing better to do and here was this bloke and his lady sitting on the back end with the door open, eating something so I walked up and asked if thier lights flashed three times. They gave me this look.. you know, like I'm the four-wheeler from hell (OK, I was a *bit* mud spattered), and then the gentleman says "well, yes" and proceeds to demonstrate. Sure enough, they flash. We stood around and chewed the fat for a while longer and all of a sudden, the dome lite in the Disco dims out. Lucas strikes again? Nope, they planned it that way. Ye Gods. With all this techo-whatsis, how do you tell if the bloody thing works correctly?? I give up. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 04:09:54 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:06:33 --100 From: ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rovers-TV and Things X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1057 Status: RO > From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) > I am close to putting the head back on my 69 21/4. When > I took it apart, like a good boy, all of the head bolts > went in a piece of cardboard in the location they came > from. However one of my fine black felines decided that > that cardboard served a better pourpose on the floor. > Now the bolts are mixed up and of differnt lengths. I can't > find a ref. as to which goes where. Help!! Shouldn't be too much of a problem ? There are three lengths : The shortest ones go on the right hand side of the engine (by the spark-plugs) The long ones go through the "legs" of the rocker-arm assembly, the rest, well... Go where there's space for them. The most important thing to get back in original position are the pushrods, these should be put in a piece of cardboard for safekeeping.. (If you're keeping the old lifters/rocker-arms/pushrods, that is). ---Ketil -------------------------------------------------------- Ketil Kirkerud Lillebil TVNorge A/S 1979 109" Petrol SW. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 08:00:44 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Rallye To: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 8:56:45 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HI4UETZ0RO9D688J@delphi.com>; from "LANDROVER@delphi.com" at Oct 11, 94 2:38 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Mike Lo-hangin-dice writes: > Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian > Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :) > Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do > some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too. Boy, now I don't feel so bad (as I didn't quite make the trip either). My excuse(s)? Well, the following are true statements: a) I had to move b) the li'l woman was helping me (and she came from Boston to do so) c) Nigel wanted to go d) we were in peak foliage season e) browns are running on the esopus f) Dixon told me he was going. The following are false statements: a) I didn't want to go b) I didn't want my Tee (is it still available?) c) I hate BBQ chicken d) I had monday off e) Dixon told me he wasn't going Dixon?? Oh, Dixon............? CAN we (both) say W - I - M - P? rd/nigel (he's pissed at me!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 08:11:03 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Oil pressure To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 9:08:00 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "David John Place" at Oct 10, 94 9:29 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO DJP writes: > starves for oil. Mine is always quiet except on start up when I get valve > noise for about 5 seconds. For peace of mind have a mechanic put a Does anyone know if there are spin-on oil filters available for LRs that have the small rubber one-way valve attached to them (like BMWs...sorry folks) that keep the oil in the filter when the motor is off and thereby prevent the "no oil in the system at startup" phenonmenon from occurring? They work great. just wondering, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 11:32:03 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:01:03 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Back from the rally now, and I hope all of you 'Netters had a good time. (One hell of a lot of work...and by just three people, mind you...went into it). Though I have known Bill Maloney for years, it was good to meet the other faces behind the sig-blocks: Jeff Berg, Ben Smith, Russ Burns, Jon Humphrey, Keith Steele, Andrew Steele (surely you guys are related somewhere) and .... (am I forgetting anyone? It was a hectic weekend for me.) Several others 'netters sent their regards/regrets with suitable excuses...but where was Dixon?!? A goodly contingent from OVLR did make it down (attracted no doubt by the free beer, incidentally a keg of tasty dark ale and one of pilsner from "Legendary Brewing"), but Mr. Kenner and his Saab were not to be found. The rally had 86 registered Rover vehicles, plus a few more from the dealership/LRNA and one chap with a double score who towed in a IIa 109 behind his Range Rover, so there were probably 95+ Rovers on site (not counting Mike's significant parts car fleet). I'll leave a description of the event to the other folks. Despite the fact that we were dealing with a large group of Rover owners (some of the most independent-thinking folks on the face of the earth) everything went off on schedule...including the promised rain storm. The Highs and the Lows: We already know about Sunday lunch. As the rally was really out in the sticks away from convenience stores/fast food restaurants/civilization in general, we catered the meals. While the Saturday BBQ was great, the Sunday lunch and dinner (done by the next door neighbor lady) were questionable. Obviously out of her depth, it won't happen again. The sounds of the bluegrass band wafting across the fields Saturday evening were most pleasant, while the teeter-totter on Sunday was a real crowd pleaser...and I hope you all had fun on the poker run/road rally (the directions were spot-on, so if you had trouble, consider yourself geographically-challenged). For those not familiar with a poker run, particiapnts are given a route card of instructions, picking up cards from separate decks at each stop. (The winner had a queen-high straight flush!) And I think Ben Smith had fun fetching all of those Range Rovers out of the mud bog with his 88. (There for a while, we were accumulating a sizeable pile of RR air dams and bumper end caps.) It was interesting to note that the fastest time through the trials course was also in the oldest vehicle...an SI 80". For those of you who wanted event T-shirts (and these are truly spectacular w/ a six color image), we have a *FEW* left. XL and XXL only. $15 plus another $2 for postage. To make it fair, first postmarked letters received within a week's time will get 'em. Other checks will be returned. If you have some other (constructive) thoughts, contact me directly to save bandwidth space; we are already planning next year's event. As the insurance floater (obtained and contributed by LRNA at significant cost) runs for a callendar year, the rally will probably be one week earlier so's we can get two year's coverage for the price of one. If any of you have some good photos...I'd like to have a copy....I didn't have time to take a single one. I'll also try to get out a special edition of "The Gearbox" sometime soon. Also, look for a feature in LRO, as Jim Allen (the "Stateside Beat" columnist) was taking photos/notes throughout. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 12:28:25 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 10:26:07 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Disco Fuel Economy better than expected! Status: RO That's pretty good -- I get about the same on the highway but only 12-15 in mixed driving in my RR with the same engine. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 12:48:18 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 10:39:37 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: kjartan@ejs.is, umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Subject: Re: Oil pressure and synthetic oil Cc: jory@figment.mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Yes from my experience if any warning light comes on, it's at least a 50% chance it's the sensor at fault, due to the electrical excellence of our friends at Lucas Industries. John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 13:50:13 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:47:26 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Dark (Re: Flashing) Rover Things To: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410061410.KAA23743@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 6 Oct 1994, Russell G. Dushin wrote: > > > > Steven asks: > > > > >> > > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > > encouraged). > > >> > > Bill replies: > > > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and > > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If > > I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a > > flash. :-) > > > Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for > good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a > little ahead of his time. > > rd/nigel About a week ago i was about to leave from a night shift and go home. When i turned the key the cabin was illuminated from the fusebox. I used up my two spare 35A fuses. When i started the exhaust broke right in front of the silencer. So i had to drive home without indicators and brakelights and announcing my coming at 110db. A G-III was taking off and i couldn't hear it. Two days later i found out that the brake light circuit was burning the fuse. And also i fixed the hazard light by accident :-o New silencer and rear pipe: Kr. 167.- (about 20 pounds incl. VAT). I can live with that. But i havent yet found the fault in the brake lights. I have some time to do that because my brother had knee surgery when Lawrence failed. I'm borrowing his '73 88" until he's ready to drive again :-) later +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 13:52:45 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:47:04 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Rally redux Status: RO In an earlier posting, I neglected to mention Mike Loiodice who stepped in for the indefatigable Steve Denis, who otherwise, could not attend. Mike, along with Robert Davis, were our tough and surly "scrutineers". Rumor has it though that many a "quick-fix" (a suitably-chilled six of malt beverage presented to the officials) was accomplished in the inspection line. Thanks again, Mike. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 14:23:49 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Mid alantic rally To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 12:20:11 PDT Status: RO Well, I thought I was going to meet the great land-rover mud god Dixon.... One of the Canadian blokes mentioned that Dixon was going to drive down in his S.O.B.. Now I figured that S.O.B was the name of a rover. But now it seems S.O.B. was really Saab one of them Swedish meat-ball things. Tell me it ain't so....... The mudhole on the course wasn't that bad, one had to try to get stuck in it. I did deposit one of the bumper caps there, making it a matched set. (I lost the other side a year ago) Unfortunately I missed the mud excursions with the fellows from north of the border. It seems there was a good mud bog in the area, and the folks were doing their best to keep it filled with recycled beer. Well it was a fun time, sorry the rest of you couldn't make it and thanks to Sandy, and his two other helpers for a good show. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 18:34:24 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: scratchy notepad To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 19:32:52 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Folks- OK, so last sunday night me turns on the tube and searches for the archeology show. Once again I tune in late (this one is on Cambodia-diggin' up ruins in the midst of fourteen year olds with guns and attitudes to match)....but alas, in the closing shots, there is some imposter posing in a land rover-gotta be Sandy Grice's! Nice fresh blue SIII 88 with a sun visor and new rubber on the bonnet. P R E T T Y. BUT, I really gotta know, that notepad thing you've got on your center-divider on your windscreen....can you write on it whilst driving (much less read what you've written before- hand)????? ayeYAP, rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 20:49:34 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:44:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil pressure To: "Russell G. Dushin" Cc: David John Place , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410111307.IAA07000@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Yes this type of filter does exist but you need the spin on oil filter adapter. It is available from ABP I think and someone in Toronto was making them in his home shop at one time and selling them. Dave VE4PNOn Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Russell G. Dushin wrote: > DJP writes: > > starves for oil. Mine is always quiet except on start up when I get valve > > noise for about 5 seconds. For peace of mind have a mechanic put a > > Does anyone know if there are spin-on oil filters available for LRs that > have the small rubber one-way valve attached to them (like BMWs...sorry > folks) that keep the oil in the filter when the motor is off and thereby > prevent the "no oil in the system at startup" phenonmenon from occurring? > They work great. > > just wondering, > rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 20:57:45 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 01:53:48 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: lro@team.net Subject: RR oil pressure Status: RO Thanks to all that responded to my question regarding oil warning light. I will get the oil pressure mesured and install a real oil pressure gauge. An other thing that bothers me is that the RR has not burnt any oil over 6000 km. May be the synthetic oil is not doing its job properly or the oil rings are to effective in scraping it off the cylinder walls? The engin has covered 130000km (I think, I bought the RR second hand) and the hydraulic lifters tap a little when the engin is hot. Otherwise the engine is doing its job reasonably well, not wery economical though but one shouldnt expect much fuel economy when running on 33x12.5 tires and a three speed auto. Regards Kjartan kjartan@ejs.is From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 21:09:18 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:05:24 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: For Sale-Landy Bits... Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: lro@team.net X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO --------Aux. gas tank "Military Top Fill"-------- All the bits and pcs. to install a second gas tank in place of the tool box under the drivers seat. This includes aux. fuel valve switch and all fuel lines. Half of the parts are new an the rest are used and in good condition. It's only lacking (6) k. This prized posession is now for sale due to "Desparate " need to re-build an engine! It's your's for $395.00 FOB Seattle as allway's first come first served... offers accepted...but cash is needed.. I will carton and ship bestway...ie. cheapest way I can, using my commercial rates if UPS isn't pratical. I can either be reached at LROVER@max.washington.edu or return mail via this message...or FAX-(206)623-9831 Day#(206)623-5460 or night (206)365-3514. Also, anyone with rebuilding of engine experience please give your thoughts...on this subject...:) Sincerely, Benjamin J. Freeman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 02:51:07 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 90 hard top To: twakeman@apple.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO TeriAnn considers surgery for her 109... > My latest lateral thinking has to do with camper pop up tops. It has been > drought to my attention that the fiberglass pop up tops on Doormobiles are > the > same as was used on the pre-1968 VW camper vans. I'm finding myself > wondering > if the vertical pop up top on post-'68 VW campervans would fit the top of > a 109. > I'm a bit confused TeriAnn.. I have a '71 VW Westfalia and the camper top is hinged at the front. The pre-1968 Westfalias had the top that popped up vertically. As to the Dormobiles, the only VW I've examined up close was a 1970 - and I took a good look at it in comparison to the Westfalia. The Dormobile top is the same design as the one used on the 109 but as to the dimensions, I couldn't say. You probably could adapt the Westfalia fiberglass & canvas to the 109 but the only thing you would gain is a bit of headroom with the top up. The bunk that goes with it is only about 5 1/2 feet long and unless you are short is pretty cramped. Another point to consider is that the Westfalia top is actually two sections.. the hinged front part and a fixed rear part which serves as a small luggage rack and provides for a "weather-tight" seal with the whole mess closed up. Good luck with it, whatever you do. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 01:12:26 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: traceable wiring To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Sorry old man, I just can't resist this.. > From: IN%"rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca" 8-OCT-1994 03:00:41.37 > To: IN%"lro@stratus.com" > CC: > Subj: traceable wiring > > Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild. > > Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on > all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say > the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld > zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in the harness, > that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have > individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear > brake light wire. > Really now Robin, that takes all the *fun* out of it. If you wanted to do a proper rebuild you probably should paint the wires all one color, just to keep the mystery in it. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 01:15:37 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:12:32 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: traceable wiring Status: RO >Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild. > >Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on >all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say >the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld >zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in the harness, >that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have >individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear >brake light wire. > >So neat and so simple eh! > >ttfn, of to see mickey ,hope to spot soem Lr product down south > > >Robin > > > >-- >Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers >Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean >(OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 Okay, so where can I get this stuff? That is a *great* idea! I want to rewire my 109", and that is *definitely* the way to go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 01:15:38 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:12:38 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV, lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: Re: New L.R. Discovery... 1st 5 days. Status: RO If I'm not mistaken, LoJack has to have made an agreement with your local PD to lease them the tracking equipment. You might want to check to see if they have the gear to find stolen vehicles. (As I understand it, it's only $1 per year to lease the stuff.) As far as I know, it's not available here in San Francisco yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 07:59:30 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:44:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally To: denis@oswego.oswego.edu, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO I got back from the Mid Atlantic rally Monday and what a great time. On the trip down I caravaned with Ben Smith in our last hurrah before he leaves for CA this week. I sure will miss him. Aside from my leading us miles out of the way to get gas and depositing my gas cap at one of the stations, the trip down was pretty uneventful. I did discover that my CB doesn't receive worth a damn. I got plenty of exercise push starting Ben's Rover at each gas and one rest stop. Unfortunately for Ben the only starter for sale at the rally looked pretty poor with dirt on the Bendix gear and shaft. Once I arrived Mike_____, the landowner, was kind enough to lend me an extra cap as none of the vendors had any. I'll be sending it back shortly in better shape than I got it and with a new seal. There were quite a lot of Rovers and 10, YES 10, LRO internetters in attendance. The list consisted of: JEFF BERG- Immaculate Marine blue IIA 88 Softtop restoration RUSS BURNS- Metallic blue Range Rover SANDY GRICE- Marine blue 88 with roof rack and dual jerry cans on the back JOHN HUMPHRIES- Very straight white IIA 109 PU w/big bloody winch & Lassie MIKE LODICE- Rabbit that kept dieseling the whole weekend & darkplugs BRUCE MCERNEY- With a Rover car (2000 ?) MYSELF- Royal blue IIA softtop BEN SMITH- Rugged Marine blue III 88 hardtop with roofrack & Warn winch ANDREW STEELE- Blue-Grey Range Rover and big tan Rover dog KEITH STEELE- Marine Blue III 88 since new with a burned exhaust valve. He spent a good deal of time troubleshooting a dead cylinder then found the exhaust valve on #1 had negative clearance. I hope he made it home to Michigan OK. I posted him a note yesterday and haven't heard back yet. I think this may have been the largest gathering of LRO netters so far. It was really neat being able to connect the names with the faces. Dixon Kenner was noticeably absent, but 7 other Canadians were in attendance bringing 4 Rovers. It has been said that Dixon once hooked a chain to a wheeless Saab and pulled it around a campground at 2:00am. You'd think he could have pulled his wheeled Saab across the border. Steve Denis was AWOL. I assume he was on one of those social trips to VT that weekend. Russ Dushin was also missing. Must have been out doing the rumba with Brookiekins. Russ, you should have been there. Your fancy footwork on the dance floor would have served you well dancing through the minefield of dog turds randomly placed about the tents, parking and catering area. Yes there were dogs. Lots of them. Sandy's, Andrews, and John's seemed to be the only dogs that were kept tied up. One of the two Disco owners went to great lengths to set up their campsite VERY neatly. Everything was just so. They brought out one nice green folding chair and placed it at a 45 degree angle under their awning. Then another nice green folding chair was placed under the same side of the awning 45 degrees in a converging direction. It was so cute. Then one of the dogs came up and hosed down the chair... and got a boot in the ribs. It was difficult to keep a straight face. Another dog got a boot trying to spray a chair with someone in it. One more dog got a boot going after a kitten on a string. I don't think I would have been so kind had the kitten been mine. Friday night was fun getting acquainted with faces both old and new. Sandy kept Land Rover videos going for all who were interested. One was a LRNA tape showing tips for dealers on developing sales tactics for Defender 90s. One method was to get the customer excited about the fun aspect of the vehicle, then close the sale before the customer considered the reality of owning a canvas topped truck. Definately not for public viewing, but very interesting. It was a surprisingly cold night for camping. Another "throw all the clothes in your bag on top of your sleeping bag" night. Saturday morning Bruce McErney of British Rovers provided some worthwhile tips on improving Land Rover performance and fuel economy. Steve Johnson of Dixieland Rovers arrived with a trailer full of parts. Another vendor arrived with a second trailer full of parts. Unfortunately, no bargains were found at either. After lunch came the trials course. A rather twisty path through the woods with a stream crossing and a small mud hole. There was a substantial dip at the entrance and as I passed a log there were lined up on it a neat row of Range Rover bumper end caps that had parted from their parent vehicles. The stream crossing was fun. Choose your angle then give it a little gas to get your momentum up, cross and regain control before plowing into a pile of people. Ben was stationed at this point to pull the Range Rovers out of the stream. Very enjoyable and if you were careful nothing got damaged. But not everyone was careful. One of the 110s creased a rear quarter panel, a Range Rover shattered its air dam, a 109 blew 2 (bald) tires and a couple of others bumped into trees. As you came off the course there was a section of logs set up so that alternate wheels were articulated at the same time. Then up and over a 4' mound to the finish line. I believe the winner was the Series 1 and the prize was a Camel Trophy lighter and something else I've forgotten. Sandy said he saw me stop and back up at one point. This clearly shows how urgently he needs new glasses. That evening there was a barbeque dinner of ribs, pork (?) on a bun (very good, whatever it was), hush puppies, Brownies, and other good stuff. A couple of kegs helped quench the parched and a very good bluegrass band kept us entertained by the bonfire (was that John Humphries playing the Banjo at one point?). Good food, good friends, and a good time. Potato cannons boomed into the night (I didn't see one myself, but was told that they consisted of a tube open at one end, a shot of hairspray, a potato, and an ignition source). Later that evening Steve Johnson of Dixieland Rovers entertained us from 2-5am with the sound of his generator powering his flood lamps as his group drank the night away (they also drank the morning, afternoon, and evening away). Sunday before noon was a road rally to get to a catered lunch. It helped to have no rally experience because a fork was a T, a T was an opportunity to turn, and an intersection was the entrance to a plant with a sign saying Employees Only Beyond This Point. The instructions to turn in the direction of East and North were also challenging as I had no compass and it was so close to noon that solar navigation was out. I can't say what it was like because everyone was gone once I reached the finish. Most of the others did enjoy it and I beleive Jeff took 3rd place. Sunday afternoon the teeter totter cometition was held. Very entertaining. I didn't know that Ben was so limber as he contorted himself in an effort to balance his 88 on the contraption. I think he'll be seeing a chiropractor this week. The Series I driver cursed and punched his steering wheel as he stalled his Rover, then dropped his jaw as he realized he was balanced at the top. A small group then headed off to do some serious off roading nearby. In the evening Sandy posted the results of the Feely Meely- a box with several Rover parts inside where you had to reach through a bag to feel and identify the parts. One had "Land Rover Part" listed in each blank, which was essentially correct. Sandy would have none of that, however. I had one rather creative answer that for some reason Sandy would not announce. I've forgotten what the prize was. There were no prizes for creative answers. A silent auction was also held. People wrote their bids on a sheet by the item in question and the highest bidder got the item. If there were 2 or 2 of one item the top 2 or 3 bidders could purchase the items at the highest bid. The items and top bids included (forgive my inaccuracies): Camel Trophy Zippo lighter - $100 (yup, $100 or more was the top bid) Camel Trophy Belts - $22 +(?) Camel Trophy book - $60+ Multi-pick-axe tool - $65+(?) Land Rover enamel sign - $32+ Camel Trophy T shirts - $19 - There were 3 of these and somehow one person got 2 and Ben who should have gotten 2nd choice got the last choice. I can't fault Sandy as he couldn't be everywhere. There may have been others but I can't recall them. A raffle was held for a bike rack and a pull pal, a winching device that digs into the ground as an anchor for the winch. Videos continued as it began to rain on and off into the evening. Steve Johnson thankfully left taking his generator with him. Monday morning I left in convoy with Jeff well before dawn. My CB was next to useless. One thing I learned is that when convoying with another vehicle the trailing vehicle gets the better gas mileage. Even if it has a full roofrack, winch, hardtop, and double plated frame (and the lead vehicle is a softtop). But more importantly, it's less mentally taxing, in that you don't have to keep one eye on the rearview mirror (sorry Jeff, yes I did take advantage of you-it was hard to keep track of you through the canvas top rear window when I was in the lead). After 9.5 hours on the road it was good to get my 1st shower in 4 days. All in all it was a great time and Sandy did an outstanding job of coordinating a rather eventful weekend. I can't wait 'til next year. I don't know if I can say the same for Sandy. Bill Maloney Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 08:51:17 1994 Date: 12 Oct 94 09:12:52 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: New Famous Person/news Status: RO Well, we can add a new famous person to the Land Rover celebrity list... Apparently the British Army Officer Col. Hewitt (who is now infamous for his kiss and tell story of his affair with Princess Diana) drives a Range Rover. In fact, according to the press, he recently fled England, driving his Range Rover to his current hideout... a converted pigsty in France. He left the country with his mother. No, I am not making this up... Also, Land Rover announced that they are opening a plant in South Africa in a facility where BMW's are currently being manufactured. They will make Discoveries and Defenders and plan on setting up a dealer network of some 50 dealers. Regards, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 09:05:02 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:33:37 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: LR World Mag Status: RO Just got a *free* copy of LRW magazine...the cover letter says they are going to send it to the club for free! That is a heck-of-a-sight better than LRO has ever done. After publishing one of my *copyrighted* articles, LRO wouldn't even give a year's subscription (or answer a polite letter for that matter). I'll bet things are going to change at LRO...PDQ. Nothing like a little competition to shake up complacency. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 11:18:43 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:12:27 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Peirce Manifolds Status: RO TeriAnn mentioned Pierce Manifolds some time back in a post - I happened to be looking in AutoWeek and saw their ad - Peirce Manifolds 800 874-3728 408 842-6667 fax 408 842-6673 Their two barrel weber kit with new intake manifold is $382.97. Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 12:29:59 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:19:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: Subscribe Status: RO Please subscribe me to the list. Thank you. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 12:53:23 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:44:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: M-A-R-R = Fantastic Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Ladies and Gentlemen may I have your attention Please. Let's give a huge round of applause for the makers happeners of the MARR. I honestly haven't had such a good time that I can remember, except maybe the divorce. (only kidding, I was really miserable at the divorce)heh,heh,heh. It was really nice to put some faces with the netters here on the right side of the continent. Thanks to Bill Maloney for his list of ten netters and his excelent coverage of the event, and his good advice at the rally, and to Sandy Grice & crew from ROAV for all their work to make it happen. Special thanks to the McCaigs who let us all have such a nice place to gather. I'm just sorry that I had to leave Sunday morning before all the afternoon fun and festivities, and rain. As I was going up Rt 15 and 522, I could see the storm clouds rolling over the Blue Ridge and I thought fondly of those that would be enjoying the additional chance of red clay mud and soggy socks. Definitely a sure thing for next year for me and Butterscotch. (Lassie) Oh gimme a home, where the Rovers do roam, and the rain clouds lurk heavy all day. Where seldom is heard, a non british spoke word, and the gear oil and dog pee mix free in the hay. (meter???) Home, Home in V A, where the banjos and the fiddles do play. In the white one o nine we will have a fine time Till we turn and we must go away. Home, that is. Anxiously awaiting for 345 days to pass. Later Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 14:55:11 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:48:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Mid Atlantic Rally Status: RO Bill Maloney did an excellent job of describing the "Middy" (Mid-Atlantic Rallye, BBQ & Storm) so I'll just add a few additional comments to his framework. Not to worry, I'll be editing his message so you won't have to reread the whole thing... Everyone will enjoy hearing about my trip down as I took a "little" detour. Having a wonderful time cruising with the top down, and enjoying not being at work, I neglected to exit the Garden State Parkway. I discovered this when I reached the end of the line in Cape May. I always wanted to go there, but by boat, not car. Anyhow, a little with a little back-tracking I was well on my way to my second major mistake of the trip, I-95. The traffic from D.C. to Richmond, VA was absolutely unreal and it soon became obvious that I wouldn't reach the campsite until hours after dark. Instead of driving into a strange camp at night I decided to drive until I got to I-64, and then stop at the first motel I could find. Once on I-64 imagine my joy at discovering that there were no motels prior to the Zion Crossing exit (which lead to the Rallye location.) I elected to drive past this exit and proceed 20 more miles into Charlottesville, a major metropolis which surely had a wide selection of hotels. Indeed it did, but alas there was no room at any of the inns. Feeling much like Joseph and Mary (though not with child) I headed all the way back to Richmond and checked in to the Best Western at 1AM. Up at 5, showered and shaved and hit the road. Absolutely no problems finding the camp site and by chance pitched my tent next to fellow netter Andrew Steele and his faithful dog whose name I never learned. After scarfing down some LRNA provided pastry it was time for the tech session on getting the most out of the 2.25 engine. My 88 became the visual aid for this session. Soon thereafter I met Bill "Monty" Maloney (It's the hat, the pants, the shirt, the LOOK! ;^}) and others. >After lunch came the trials course. I had decided that I wasn't going to drive the trials course. Perhaps after my car has weathered a winter and I've gained some offroad experience I'll try it. At any rate, I was able to catch a ride and enjoyed the experience, albiet vicariously. >I believe the winner was the Series 1 and >the prize was a Camel Trophy lighter and something else I've forgotten. Indeed the S1 was the winner. The oldest car driven by, I believe, the youngest driver. He recieived an entire Camel Trophy prize pack including the much desired (by me) Camel Trophy Zippo. >Sunday before noon was a road rally to get to a catered lunch. It helped to >have no rally experience because a fork was a T, a T was an opportunity to >turn, and an intersection was the entrance to a plant with a sign saying >Employees Only Beyond This Point. The instructions to turn in the direction >of East and North were also challenging as I had no compass and it was so >close to noon that solar navigation was out. I can't say what it was like >because everyone was gone once I reached the finish. Most of the others did >enjoy it and I beleive Jeff took 3rd place. As Sandy previously explained it was a poker rally. At each checkpoint you drew a playing card, and the best hand won. Fortunately, I was able to use solar navigation to find east, and was lucky enough to draw a decent hand, Kings over Jacks with an Ace in the hole. I helped pay my way through engineering school with hands like that, especially in straight (stud) poker. Too bad the other guys were playing draw. There was some card swapping going on at lunch. No complaints though, third was good for a Camel Trophy T-shirt, enamel pin, and a sticker pack. Plus next year I'll be all the wiser... > >Sunday afternoon the teeter totter cometition was held. The Series I driver >cursed and punched his steering wheel as he >stalled his Rover, then dropped his jaw as he realized he was balanced at the >top. Same guy that won the trials. I think he took third in the Teeter. That Series 1 was truely a great little runabout. As the Teeter contest was going on the S1 guys were running it over the gravel ramp used to complete the trial course -- crosswise! And then across the hill in reverse. He even brought the car to a complete stop on the 45 degree gravel slope and then got it moving again. Amazing! >There were no prizes for creative answers. Though I was heartened that Sandy mentioned my answer for Vehicle with most room for improvement: The Izuzu Amigo that one of the Road rally Marshalls was driving. Did other people vote the same way Sandy? > >A silent auction was also held. > >Camel Trophy Zippo lighter - $100 (yup, $100 or more was the top bid) I topped my bid out at $85, which was $20 higher than I planned to go. The woman with whom I'd been exchanging bids all weekend, usually uping the anty by $2-$5 jumped right up to $100 and I decided there was no way I'd scare her off. It turns out she was buying it as a gift for her husband, who is also the guy who won the People's Choice Award with a County 110. Nice truck and nice folks, even if they did get my lighter! (The funny part is I don't smoke, I just light a lot of cigaretts in bars and thought the C.T. lighter might make for interesting conversation.) I'm glad I was able to drive the price paid up though, as all proceeds went to ROAV. Sunday night Bill pointed out that I had a small vacuum leak. He went on to locate and tighten the loose elbow, providing a valuable learning experience in the process. Bill was also generous enough to "loan" me two quarts of oil, as I had burned through all of my spare 20w50 on the trip down. (Rover seems a little thirsty when running at a constant 65.) I spent the latter part of the evening swapping tall tales with Mike, Russ and Ben in the Canadian camp. Great guys all! "Monty" Maloney was already catching ZZZs in his mansion/tent, preparing for an early departure the next morning. > >Monday morning I left in convoy with Jeff well before dawn. My CB was next to >useless. Two suggestions Bill. 1) Ground plane for the antenna, your spare tire/mag mount might not quite cut it. 2) External speaker for the CB. Even a 4" Radio Shack cheapie, like the one mounted in my dash, really makes things sound clearer. Speaking of early Monday morning, we got quite a scare. Bill and I got into our respective trucks. Bill was wearing his "Monty" hat, and I had on my Tilley Endurable "Jungle-Jim" lid. We drive for about 2 hours and decide to take a gas stop. We both jump out of our Rovers and do a doubletake as we notice that we're both now wearing identical Jimmy Buffett/Air Margaritaville "baseball" caps. Apparently we both had "general public" caps stashed away. Then and there I decided we wouldn't go waltzing into any truck stops together. >One thing I learned is that when convoying with another vehicle the >trailing vehicle gets the better gas mileage. Even if it has a full roofrack, >winch, hardtop, and double plated frame (and the lead vehicle is a softtop). >But more importantly, it's less mentally taxing, in that you don't have to >keep one eye on the rearview mirror (sorry Jeff, yes I did take advantage of >you-it was hard to keep track of you through the canvas top rear window when I >was in the lead). After 9.5 hours on the road it was good to get my 1st >shower in 4 days. Lead truck is definitely more taxing. Especially when you have to decide whether or not to pass. I definitely could "hear" Bill's curses at some of the decisions I made. Still, I was happy to do it considering his alternate route shaved about three hours off my trip. Besides, it was fun to not travel alone, even if our CB conversation was minimal. And having a top-notch mechanic within sight definitely relieves a lot of the worry that us non-engine savvy types experience. > >All in all it was a great time and Sandy did an outstanding job of >coordinating a rather eventful weekend. I can't wait 'til next year. I don't >know if I can say the same for Sandy. Ditto! And also that it was great to meet all of the netters, Chris Laws and the rest of the Bay State Hooligans, and Bruce Mcerney face to face. It was also gratifying to receive so much positive feedback on the way my truck came out. I think that deep down I'd been dreading the expert response, and apparently in the end I didn't do so bad for a rookie. (Though the guy who designed the ralley t-shirts didn't like the fact that I went with cloth seats...) I'll post some pictures to the Web site soon, as well as send a set off to Sandy. Regards JAB Rowayton, CT == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 22:00:54 1994 To: lro@team.net Cc: mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: A bit of a diesel emergency Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 19:56:00 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Howdy, Ok folks, heres our chance to earn our bread and butter. A very nice couple from Austria is here in North America touring the fruited plains in thier 74 Ser lll 2.25 diesel 109. Things were going along fine until about Winnepeg, Canada, when abruptly, the engine lost power on the top end. The symptoms are as follows; the engine idles just fine, and revs to 4000+ RPMs in the first three gears, pulling fairly sluggishly, even for a diesel. The minute you put it in fourth, it loses power, and can only keep the truck moving along at 45-47 MPH. Previously, they were able to cruise comfortably at 65 MPH. It has had the following things done to it. Firstly, the engine was overhauled 60k kilometers ago before they came to NA, barely broken in by diesel standards. Now the list of attempted fixes. Overhauled the distribution pump, twice. The first time, when the pump was bled initially, black oil came out, indicating a failed lower seal, allowing crankcase oil to seep in. This was fixed on the first overhaul and timing, and on subsequent bleedings (sounds gruesome), there was no oil detected, other than diesel oil of course. The injectors have been replaced three times, no help there. The fuel filters have been replaced and even at one point, bypassed by running with a can on the bonnet feeding directly into the distributor pump to see if there was any obstruction in the fuel system.The regular fuel pump was also overhauled and then replaced. The air intake was disconnected at the filter, no help. The exhaust has been disconnected at the silencer, no obstructions, no help. Fuel consumption has increased about 3.5 liters per 100k to 14 liters per 100 kilometers. compression check reveals 490 to 520 pounds across the board, no leak down to speak of, no sticking valves. Valves have been adjusted and the timing cover has been off and the cam timing checked and verified as being correct. No drag in the drive train, ie. dragging brakes, transmission brake, slipping clutch, fozen wheel bearings, etc. All those would be fairly easy to catch by the smell and or noise, but the thing coasts just fine. The injectors were tested also as they were replaced, they spray just fine. Basically, we're out of ideas. HELP HELP HELP all you disel gurus out there. The only possibility I can come up with was that the camshaft has gone flat, allowing reasonable low speeds but falling of at the top end. But this would not be an abrupt change, it would be gradual. The problem came on abruptly. The engine makes no more than the usual diesel coffee grinder noises, ie, nothing that can be identified as being abnormal. SO put on your thinking caps and come up with the brilliant answer folks, a nice Austrian couple is counting on us. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 23:01:21 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 20:58:45 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I had a great time at the Mid-Atlantic Rally. Sandy did a great time organizing it. Not only did I get to winch out Ranger Rovers, but some Land Rovers also needed to be winched out. The Toronto crowd found some dirt roads and fire breaks that provided a lot of challenging track to follow. Not for the feint of heart. I did it all, despite not having a working starter mortor or the ability to use a hand crank. On Saturday, while I was waiting for the trials course to start, I wandered around and took a count of the Rovers present. Here what I saw: 1 SI 80 11 SII/SIIA 88s 9 SII/SIIA 109s 8 SIII 88s 3 SIII 109s 1 110 2 US Defender 110s 8 US Defender 90s 14 Range Rovers 5 Discoveries 1 Rover Car (I forgot to write down the type) 1 Lightweight 1 SIIA 109 Doormobile 1 Range Rover rolling chassis with Land Rover 90 upper parts Which gives a total of 66. Far short of Sandy's total of 80+ vehicles, but I only counted those present at a certain time. Lots of Rovers though. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 02:31:27 1994 Date: 13 Oct 94 03:13:09 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: TO ALL: Reliability of Land Rovers, etc Status: RO I figure that all of you out there can give some unbiased advise about the reliability of older land rovers to Shel- a newcomer to the LRO digest, so I have forwarded a recent message of his. ------------------------------------------------- FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 11-Oct-94 20:00:44 Subject: #268276-Land Rover Defender - Msg Number #268760 From: Shel Belinkoff - SF,CA 76177,3361 To: Leslie Stutsman 100042,254 Forum: CARS Section: 14 - Trucks, Vans, 4x4s ------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the information about the LR's that you import. I don't know much about the older LR's, although I am somewhat familiar with them. I used one briefly about 20-years ago - it was a LWB (109") witha Safari Roof. I really enjoyed it. I like the looks of the older LR's, but am concerned about reliablity. When I go offroad, I tend to get into places that are well off the usual track - sometimes in areas where I've not seen anyone for a few days. Most of my driving isn't too difficult, but about once a month or so I get into some pretty difficult terrain - snow, mud, very rocky trails where I've scraped my skid plates or dinged a differential, by way of example. I think I would prefer a longer wheelbase model for added comfort and carrying capacity on longer trips. My current 4x4 has a 125-inch wheelbase, and, while I've had to jockey around in some situations, it gets me pretty where I want to go. Tell me a bit about the drive train, limited slip differentials, ground clearance and power. Can these things cruise comfortably at 70-mph or better? How large are the largest engines? I've joined the LRO list on the 'net, but thus far haven't seen anything that has given me much detail on these vehicles. The prices I've seen quoted in your messages seem reasonable, but I don't know enough about the units or their value to make any further judgements. Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 04:40:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: A bit of a diesel emergency To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com (Mike Fredette) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 10:31:18 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410130256.AA22511@pdx242.intel.com>; from "Mike Fredette" at Oct 12, 94 7:56 pm Status: RO Mike, You appear to have pretty well covered the possibilties,here,but there is an ananswered question.Does the thing smoke?If so,what colour is the smoke?Also,were the injectors replaced by new,or reconditioned ones,and if the latter,who set them up? Some ideas(pretty way out some of them,but you've gone and nicked all the simple ones:-)). Check that the spill system is working OK,from injectors back to tank for excess fuel,in other words,is the spill pipe clear? Remember that the distributor pump *will* work if set up 180 deg. out of true,but not well.Worth another look,perhaps. Has the gearbox got oil in it,or conversely,does all appesr to be well with it even if it has? If the vehicle has free-wheel hubs,are these disengaged? Is the engine overheating? Have you got the special tool for setting the dist pump timing?This takes up the play in the drive gear and tells you where to set the moveable pointer on the block,so that you can line up the indicator groove on the pump flange when you replace the pump. This one is far out.Has the thing got itself into 4WD.Unlikely,I grant you,and I'd expect somewhat different symptoms if it had,like spring wind up on tarmac,but in view of the situation,perhaps worth a look. Try also checking the tracking of the front wheels,a duff TRE could produce extra rolling resistance. The only other thing I can think of at present,which will make your hair go white(if you havent already pulled it all out)is that one of the hot spots in the head is loose.They are aluminium inserts,pressed and pegged in place.But you've got to take the head off to see them. A loose one would upset the gas flow,and combustion events. Is the throttle linkage operating OK,or has the maximum demand screw worked itself loose,limiting throttle opening. I'd *love* to know how the guy manages to cruise a 109" at 65mph.Wouldnt you Dale? Hope this helps,keep us in the picture,stay in touch. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 06:56:59 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:34:37 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Book Review To: LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.oswego.edu, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Content-Type: Text Status: RO (I offer my apologies if this is old news). A few weeks back I received a survivalist catalog in the mail (Why, I don't know. I seem to be surviving quite well, thank you). I doubted there would be anything of interest inside but proceeded to thumb through it until I saw a book with a guess what on the cover... an SAS Pink Panther. I just had to order this book. The book is: The Visual Dictionary of Special Military Forces Dorling Kindersley, Publisher $14.95 US It's really pretty interesting with lots of spy stuff including pipe/zip guns, zippo lighter cameras, and hankerchiefs that turn into maps when soaked in urine. This explains why my fellow OVLR members seem to consume so much brewski. It's not because they like getting toasted. They slurp down the suds because they have to hose down their hankies to be able to find their way back across the border. :-) Oh, that reminds me, never ask to borrow the hankerchief of an OVLR member (unless you're lost). ;-D (Dixon & company up at fourplay.nepal have been AWFUL QUIET lately. Is it igloo construction time already :-) ?) A full two pages are devoted to the Pink Panther. All of the details on the vehicle are identified (such as "Pneumatic Tire" and "Gear Lever" - I'll be sure to use this as a reference during my next oil change). It's the best look I've ever gotten of the vehicle, and for me it was worth the $14 and change to add it to my Rover book library. Bill Wayne NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 08:05:54 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Front chassis legs To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:03:44 +0000 (BST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 385 Status: RO Does anyone have any experience of replacing front chassis legs on LWB Land Rovers? The left front on my 1970 Station Wagon has cracked 3/4 of the way around, just forward of the crossmember and I need to replace it this weekend. Legs are readily available and the task was covered in the very first issue of LRW, but any additional comments or advice would be welcomed. Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 10:17:15 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:00:53 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: NJ British Car Show Saturday To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO This Saturday, October 15, in Dover NJ, an MG Marque Day will be held at Moss motors. All British cars are invited (201-361-9358). I'll be there around 9:00am (it gets crowded really early) with my muddy 88 (though not as muddy as Ben's). There are usually plenty of vendors with parts for all sorts of British vehicles. If the T-Shirt folks are there, I may have them screen their large image of the 109 wagon on the back of my Ottowa and Bay State sweatshirts. Mike Lodice, do you have a Moss Motors catalog for your Triumph? If not, I'll pick one up for you. Ben, if you dawdle enough preparing for your move, you could pull your starter and see if you could match it up with one of the vendor's starters. If you can't make it, I'll pick up a Jag catalog for your dad and drop it off. See ya there... maybe. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 10:52:27 1994 Date: 13 Oct 94 11:39:27 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: A bit of diesel emergency Status: RO Mike Fredette solicited > Ok folks, heres our chance to earn our bread and > butter. A very nice couple from Austria is here in North ... *very* strange (I mean the diesel symptoms, not the Austrians); but I'll have a go at it anyway: Considering most other things have been checked, maybe the fuel pump is doing less than its share of work. Overhaul it, or test-wise replace it with a more powerful electric pump, like from a Range Rover or the old 6-cyl. and see what happens. Or, maybe the fuel linings between tank and fuel pump have air seeping in somewhere? Inserting a piece of transparent tubing just before the fuel pump could help to reveal this problem; perhaps after a while you will see small bubbles making their way up towards the pump. In that case, all previous 'bleeding' (ouch!) whould have been in vain once the bubbles make it to the pump diaphragm. Or perhaps the pump itself is sucking air from the crankcase through a faulty diaphragm. The air leak in the lining could even be _inside_ the tank! If this doesn't reveal anything, I pass. Stefan LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 11:17:25 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:06:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: LRO@team.net From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: based in UK now. Status: RO As I mentioned a while back, I have moved over to the UK for a while. It is definately Land-Rover heaven. Back in California I might see one or two Land-Rovers in a month (except for Range-Rovers). Now I see many every day. the discovery must have done very well here over the last couple of years, there are tons of them on the road. So, I am going to try to find a Land-Rover and bring it back with me. Last night on channel 4 they showed one of the Land Rover adventures. These are 4 minute long documentaries about land rovers and some recognizable british personalities who tested them. Last nights was about Vermont. They took Lord Lichfield (a photographer who is famous for the pirelli calendar I think) and a few other people to visit Vermont. It is very soft sell commercial. (I actually wondered why they showed that black Ford Explorer driving around until I realized that it is the new Range Rover.) These tapes are excerpts from some live shows that LR produced for a target 50,000 of their best customers. They actually bought a TV studio with satellite capability to show Land Rover TV at dealers around the world. They are going to try to produce 2 hours of programming a week to beam to their dealers. Interesting? Now those of you with dishes in your back yards..... I will keep you all posted on the search. If there are any Britons who know of any LRs available, let me know. Or if any of you belong to a local LR club, let me know about that too. I am located in Berkshire county. Bye for now. Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 13:14:57 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:02:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: diesel problem To: lro@stratus.com Cc: bill maloney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Two thoughts (then my yearly supply is used up) 1. Crank....is is possible that the crank has gotten out of phase? if it was overhauled and they use a petrol crank,all Toledo will break out...the endfloat on the crank will effect the timing..... 2. Camshaft...or general lifter,rocker,pushrod stuff....one overrev can kill some of these speed sensitive parts...if they were pushing engine oil into the pump,that could have cause an over rev....also...the pumps will leak diesel into the sump,but to put engine oil in the pump would require pressure...and just *where* did that pressure come from you ask? Blow by from the rings?......this alone can cause the low power...and if the seal was really bad,you would have started by draining diesel into the sump...actually directly on the drive gear and cam....are we starting to see a possible commection here?...well not so fast batman....I think the oil in the injector pump came,and is still coming from the defective lift pump which cannot develop enough pressure to keep up with the continueous power requirements of the engine at full power (yeah,full power,*that's* a joke eh?) and the distributor pump starves for fuel..... "AH!,I'ts the pump then!"......I never said that exactally now did I! it could be the cam lobe that acuates the pump lever.....remember that bath of not so slipery diesel/oil mix "lubricating*the cam ?....sigh.... Ok...here's what I'd do..... Load this thing down in the indrect gears at full power...do the canadian thing and tow a wheel-less SAAB about or something...this will *prove* wheather it is a drivetrain problem..if the power drops off during continuous full power in the lower gears,It's fuel.....if it dosen't the engine may have mechanical problems that do not allow it to develope the power it once had..hence no top speed.... I'd change the lift pump straight off...this will give them a spare if the don't have one already.....then....I'd change the cam..and really really inspect everything else..... the lift pump *is* different on a diesel! do not install a petrol pump! Did the pump shops replace the transfer pump end plate on the distriutor pump?...the originial piece is aluminum and wears very quickly...the new piece is a Bi-Metal affair that should last a long time.. also......do we have good fuel...if they picked up fuel in california,it is *much* different than the stuff they are used to running ...most people report better running on this stuff.....but it would figure that in a Rover....... back to work steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 18:22:29 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: Ian_farquehson@vos.stratus.com Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: The fourth tool. Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 19:17:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO All right, by now you'd have to be a hermit not to recognize that the three tools in life are Gaffers (or Duct) Tape, Dental Floss or Bailing Wire (depending on application), and Wire Ties. However, this evening while attempting to change the R/Rs clutch slave cylinder, we discovered the need for a fourth tool. Well, as expected the unit was removed rather easily, barring the pipe, but that was just the usualy pesky and tedious undooing of the pipe fitting. Following that the new unit was put in place, and I was having some difficultly lining up the bolts, so I decided to remove them, and the unit, so that I could clean the bolts, etc. However, in the removal of the unit, I found the push-rod removed with it, not entirely evil, but there is this nylon clip that retains the pushrod to the release lever, and it basically didn't want to slip back on, and the release lever had some slop and all were located well into the housing, behind this 2" diameter hole. Plan A: use wire to hold the release lever forward and push it back on. Fails: wire interferes with the fitting of the clip, it becomes clear the clip won't easily be pushed on, as it's leading edges are square and need to be seperated to clear the release lever. Plan B: Use screwdriver to prise the clip apart in the hole. Fails, too many things to do, no space and only two hands. Inspiration: need another method. Plan C: Replace wire with dental floss (to hold release lever forward and not interfere with clip fitting) and dig out the split-ring pliers with L-bits to prise the clip apart and over the release lever. Fails, as in B. Inspiration: need a new tool to spread the clip ends apart and not take up any space. Tape, wire-ties and wire won't do it. Plan D: Keep the fingers spread and simply push over release lever. Leaving the release lever secured forward by dental floss, we spread the fingers and inserted the fourth tool, a wooden match stick and furthermore secured a piece of dental floss to the forth tool so we could retrieve it after it was secured. ------ Afterward, we managed to unsuccessfully bleed the slave cylinder, so I'm left with slightly more pedal than before, but not much clutch action.. But, seeing how twice my finger reached the dry bottom of the master cylinder, I think I'll be bleeding that tomorrow. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:55:55 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:52:41 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net, SC00PER@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1062 Status: RO Send requests for alias changes to; land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com ^ | | @#####@ (### ###)-. .(### ###) \ / (### ###) ) (=- .@#####@|_--" /\ \_|l|_/ (\ (=-\ |l| / \ \.___|l|___/ /\ |_| / (=-\._________/\ \ / \._________/ # ---- # # __ # \########/ Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 22:01 PDT 1994 > Sender: SC00PER@aol.com > To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net > Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 212 > X-Lines: 7 > > unsubscribe me > I'm sorry for doing it this way, but I have no other choice. > I need to attract someone's attention. > My apolgies for inconveniencing anyone who is not in charge of the Land Rover > Digest.... > -Steve > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 20:57:41 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:54:50 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Peirce Manifolds / Weber 2-barrel Status: RO Well, given that the weber is at least $150+ (from the UK), and I don't really know how to install it, I think I'm gonna hold off on it. For now. I do appreciate everyone's info on it, though! (I've got it all filed for the future.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:06 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:55:44 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO Unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:07 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:55:56 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:55 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:16 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me immediately From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:02 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:23 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:09 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:33 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:41 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:57:23 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me I'm sorry for doing it this way, but I have no other choice. I need to attract someone's attention. My apolgies for inconveniencing anyone who is not in charge of the Land Rover Digest.... -Steve From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:55 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:57:31 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 01:55:23 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Book Review (Visual Dic) To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: from "maloney" at Oct 13, 94 07:34:37 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1499 Status: RO Baloney writes: < (I offer my apologies if this is old news). A few weeks back I received a < survivalist catalog in the mail... < I doubted there would be anything of interest inside < but proceeded to thumb through it until I saw a book with a guess < what on the cover... an SAS Pink Panther. I just had to order this < book. The book is: < < The Visual Dictionary of Special Military Forces < Dorling Kindersley, Publisher < $14.95 US < < A full two pages are devoted to the Pink Panther. All of the details on the < vehicle are identified (such as "Pneumatic Tire" and "Gear Lever" - I'll be < sure to use this as a reference during my next oil change). It's the best < look I've ever gotten of the vehicle, and for me it was worth the $14 and < change to add it to my Rover book library. umm... this is a kiddie book. I wonder what this says about survivalist catalogs. I wonder what this says about Baloney. Well, to be fair, the whole Visual Dictionary series is the best in children's books -- absolutely stunning photography. When I saw the Pink Panther on the cover some time ago, I had to buy the book for my son -- honest! He's a good excuse for these sort of things. This list is indeed getting rather quiet. Is it because almost everybody has been switched to digest mode, and that sort of kills spontaneity? T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 03:05:22 1994 From: Robert Meredith Subject: tyre sizes To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 8:57:38 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85.2.1] Status: RO Folks, I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me. For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. Anyway I hope someone can clear the wood fom the trees!! Cheers, Rob Meredith. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 05:51:11 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Subject: Administrivia 'Re: sc00per' In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Oct 94 07:55:20 BST." <199410140655.HAA18977@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 06:48:48 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > From: SC00PER@aol.com > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:23 -0400 > Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... > unsubscribe me I was about to write a letter insulting the intelligence of the lowest common demoninator and AOL subscribers (which I often would like to), but I decided to see if Sc00per was really a zero or not. He did infact contact Majordomo and he asked to 'unsubscribe lro'. Majordomo's a nice enough chap, but he's a bit hard of hearing, and thus understands things only in a certain context, so if you omit key words, he'll either give you no information or something you don't want. He basically lives for the 'lro-digest' list, but I tried to lie to him and make him think there was an 'lro' list that he dealt with also. Now, we have to go back to when I set it up and made 'lro' a link to 'lro-digest', I tried to lie to Majordomo, and for the most part it worked. BUT, evidently, that link got transformed into a seperate file and thus the two were not the same by the time Sc00per did the not-quite-correct unsubscribe. [I could chastise Sc00per to being a bit juvenile in his bid to attract attention, instead of writing to majordomo-owner, but I empathize with his frustration, so I won't.] As for the files, I've changed the lro file to be root owned and read-only, so subsequent operations for subscribe/un-subscribe should fail outright, just remember it is 'lro-digest' if that is what you get. -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 06:40:49 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:30:08 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Re: Tire Sizes To: robm!hpman010.uksr.hp.com@internet!.needs.domain, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. >> Bob, I'm not a tire guru, but considering how quiet the net has been lately, I was afraid you might get no answers at all. On the sidewall numbers, such as 235R 15 or 7.50R 16, the first figure is the cross section of the tire in mm or Inches. The height, if there are no other figures, is 85%. So on a 7.50R 16 tire do: 7.5" X 85% = 6.375". Since there's rubber on both sides of the rim, double that and add to the rim diameter: 6.375" X 2 = 12.75", 12.75" + 16" = 28.75" tire diameter. If the tire were (hypothecically) 7.50 70R 16, the height would be 70% of the cross section. For metric sizes you'll need to do a little conversion. I have Sears LT AT 235 70R 15s on my 88 and they do OK. Zippy around town with decent handling and OK in the rain. One day I may switch to 7.5R 16s to improve fuel economy, reduce highway noise, and improve the ride (this is what folks with US 88s that have switched to 16" rims have experienced). But not today. I'm sure other folks will be glad to share their experiences. Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com (Over half my messages this morning were from someone trying to unsubscribe. I hope this isn't a trend). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 07:18:34 1994 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:13:19 -0400 Sender: UncleBrad@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: LRW/LRO club support Status: RO Sandy Grice writes "Just got a *free* copy of LRW magazine...the cover letter says they are going to send it to the club for free! That is a heck-of-a-sight better than LRO has ever done. After publishing one of my *copyrighted* articles, LRO wouldn't even give a year's subscription (or answer a polite letter for that matter)." The Land Rover Owners' Association , North America has had the same experience with LRO. We've sent in several articles that we thought would be good reading. Also several letters & phone calls - not a single response. They don't seem to think we're worth their time. LRW, on the other hand, has also given us a free subscription and a discount to members. I think that's good business & wish them success in the North American market. Brad Blevins Editor, The Aluminum Workhorse From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 08:20:55 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: tyre sizes To: robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com (Robert Meredith) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 14:17:48 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410140757.AA18808@hpman010.uksr.hp.com>; from "Robert Meredith" at Oct 14, 94 8:57 am Status: RO Bob, I think Bill has answered the question you asked(so *that's how its done,is it?I never knew but didnt like to ask,thanks Bill). If you're in the UK,you could do far worse than 205 16 Trakker Radial remoulds.I paid 35quid each for mine,including VAT,and fitted.They appear to be a good compromise tyre,and the ride and cornering are vastly improved. The manual says(and this is the 11A manual)that 88" can run on 6.00,6.50,7.00 or 7.50 cross ply's.109",it says,7.50 or 9.00. That latter I take with a pinch of salt,personally.Radials arent mentioned,which isnt surprising judging by the publication date of the manual.Which leaves the question of tyre pressures very much up in the air(oooooh,sorry,unintentional I assure you). I run mine at the 25lbs recommended for cross plys in the manual, and they seem OK,I increase the rears to 30lbs for towing a horsebox. However,I'm not certain that this is correct.So if anyone has different opinions/experiences can we hear them please?For information,the tyres resemble Trac Edges in tread pattern,the vehicle is an 88" 11A Diesel 1970 vintage. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 18:21:44 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: A bit of a diesel emergency & my gear box! To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 9:17:40 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi Mike writes: >>> Howdy, Ok folks, heres our chance to earn our bread and butter. A very nice couple from Austria is here in North America touring the fruited plains in thier 74 Ser lll 2.25 diesel 109. Things were going along fine until about Winnepeg, Canada, when abruptly, the engine lost power on the top end. The symptoms are as follows; the engine idles just fine, and revs to 4000+ RPMs in the first three gears, pulling fairly sluggishly, even for a diesel. The minute you put it in fourth, it loses power, and can only keep the truck moving along at 45-47 MPH. Previously, they were able to cruise comfortably at 65 MPH. It has had the following things done to it. Firstly, the engine was overhauled 60k kilometers ago before they came to NA, barely broken in by diesel standards. Now the list of attempted fixes. Overhauled the distribution pump, twice. The first time, when the pump was bled initially, black oil came out, indicating a failed lower seal, allowing crankcase oil to seep in. This was fixed on the first overhaul and timing, and on subsequent bleedings (sounds gruesome), there was no oil detected, other than diesel oil of course. The injectors have been replaced three times, no help there. The fuel filters have been replaced and even at one point, bypassed by running with a can on the bonnet feeding directly into the distributor pump to see if there was any obstruction in the fuel system.The regular fuel pump was also overhauled and then replaced. The air intake was disconnected at the filter, no help. The exhaust has been disconnected at the silencer, no obstructions, no help. Fuel consumption has increased about 3.5 liters per 100k to 14 liters per 100 kilometers. compression check reveals 490 to 520 pounds across the board, no leak down to speak of, no sticking valves. Valves have been adjusted and the timing cover has been off and the cam timing checked and verified as being correct. No drag in the drive train, ie. dragging brakes, transmission brake, slipping clutch, fozen wheel bearings, etc. All those would be fairly easy to catch by the smell and or noise, but the thing coasts just fine. The injectors were tested also as they were replaced, they spray just fine. Basically, we're out of ideas. HELP HELP HELP all you disel gurus out there. The only possibility I can come up with was that the camshaft has gone flat, allowing reasonable low speeds but falling of at the top end. But this would not be an abrupt change, it would be gradual. The problem came on abruptly. The engine makes no more than the usual diesel coffee grinder noises, ie, nothing that can be identified as being abnormal. SO put on your thinking caps and come up with the brilliant answer folks, a nice Austrian couple is counting on us. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com Portland, Oregon <<< Is it possible that the cam has dropped a lobe, that would explain why it happened suddenly. Thats all that I can think of, but I'm not a diesel guru, yet. Also while I'm posting, I did not break my lay shaft, it turns out that while I was changing the bell housing so that I could put the 2.25 in, a 'C' ring on the lay shaft fell off, alowing first gear to float around, and make a mess! So currently, I might be having an 'F' suffix IIA gear box re-built, depending on whether I can get the input shaft cleaned up! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:00:01 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:29:23 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: LRW Binders To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO In August I called LRW to order the back issues and a binder. The girl on the line took my back issue order but referred me to another number for the binder. Once I got off the line with her, I realized the number she gave me was one digit short. I gave it a try anyway and it was undialable. I called her back and read back the number. She read it back to me and confirmed it was correct. She explained that the number was to Lancashire (?), that the number was correct, and they called that number all the time. But you can't dial it from the US. And she wouldn't call them with my info to place the order. So I sent a note with my Credit Card number and waited. And waited. I just received a note from them saying they were sorry but they could not accept payment by credit card. They deal in checks or money orders only. It also apologized for the ad stating Credit Cards were accepted - they said it was a printing error. Just a heads up for any who are interested. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 09:46:10 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 07:40:29 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: Diesel problems... Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Diesel problems... While I'm not a "real" mechanic, I have done much mechanical work (engine r&r, transmission r&r clutches, rebuild carbs, etc...) I have not had the (mis)fortune to work on diesels. However, two possibilities come to mind: 1.) Check for vacuum leaks 2.) Check for broken/cracked valve spring. Maybe the valve is "floating" under loaded conditions??? Just some thoughts... let us know what you find! #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:56:51 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LRovers in Canada? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:47:19 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dave writes: > There is a possibility that I may be moving from the UK to Canada > (Toronto), which means I will have to sell my 1980 Series III SWB. If you move next year, you can bring the series III with you. Canada has a fifteen year rule for importing vehicles. Once they are over that age, you can bring anything you want in. > Does anyone know if LRovers are available in Canada? Yes, the new once as of this year, the older ones as they appear. > I suppose ideally I'd like to get hold of a second hand 90 Turbo Diesel > (Yup, I wanna move up in the world!) So if anyone has any info on > availability, pricing etc, I'd be really greatful! Not a chance. No Turbo Diesels over here unless you want to try and get one of the British Army Turbo DIesels, but that raises an whole host of other problems. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:51:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rallye From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:57:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LANDROVER@delphi.com writes: > Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian > Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :) > Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do > some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too. Everything fell apart at the last minute. Am kinda pissed off that I missed the whole show, but to salve my feelings I went out and bought an early Series IIA diesel 109 pick-up. With the 500km of driving to get it though, I should probably have gone down alone to Virginia. It does sound like I missed a good time... :-( Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:57:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Rallye From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:00:52 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > e) browns are running on the esopus ??? What are you talking about??? > f) Dixon told me he was going. Dixon doesn't have a very good excuse, true or false. > Dixon?? Oh, Dixon............? CAN we (both) say W - I - M - P? > > rd/nigel (he's pissed at me!) Nigel should be pissed off at you, though I would have been amazed if you had brought Nigel down to Virginia. As for the wimp bit, maybe, maybe not. We will see later on about this... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS. New job is swamping me with paper and eating into serious net time in a big way. STill don't have the 56k link installed. They lied and I want my toy... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:49:44 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: LRW Binders To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "maloney" at Oct 14, 94 10:29:23 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 879 Status: RO Baloney relates his problem with LRW telephones etc. I empathize, but only from my own stupidity.... Last time I called LRW, I forgot to dial the country code. As fate would have it, the Croydon area code (i.e. LRW editorial offices) is the same as the country code for Japan. So, I tuned in to a frenetic, but sexy Japanese recording. It was so mesmerizing I listened to it three times. Baloney's problems reminds me of a classic excuse from our polar friends: Canada had the unique historic and geographic opportunity to create a paradise on earth based on British government, French culture and American business; but they screwed up royally and opted instead for American culture, British business and French government. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:55:46 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 08:46:20 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: sinasohn@crl.com, hiner@mail.utexas.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Peirce Manifolds / Weber 2-barrel Status: RO In message <199410140154.AA24627@crl.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > Well, given that the weber is at least $150+ (from the UK), and I don't > really know how to install it, I think I'm gonna hold off on it. For now. I > > do appreciate everyone's info on it, though! (I've got it all filed for the > future.) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > Roger. I took at poll at the Palo Alto British car meet a couple of years ago when I noticed that several of the land rovers there had 2 barrel webbers on them. I only found one person who thought there was an improvement. That person had a header and 2.5L petrol spec cam. I suspect everyone else was over carbed for their cam. I wonder where you get the trick speed parts for Land ROvers ;*) Meanwhile... Scotty did get a chance to pull my oil pan. Dirt and unidentified parts of my engine littered the bottom. Scotty thinks they are parts of the timing chain. So his next investigation is to pull the timing cover. I still haven't talked him into pulling a rod cap & looking at a crank journal. Sigh, now that I've got my transmission paid for its time to start saving for engine parts :^( TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 12:15:30 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:12:15 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: LRO@stratus.com, maloney@wings.attmail.com, robm!hpman010.uksr.hp.com@internet!.needs.domain Subject: Re: Tire Sizes Status: RO I was glad to find out a piece of info from this -- I've often wondered what the aspect reatio is for RR 205 R16 tires is -- so I gues it must be 85%. That does indeed correspond to my calculations using the outside diameter. Thanks!! John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 16:24:13 1994 Date: 14 Oct 94 17:14:15 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: Defender Success Etc. Status: RO I was down at the dealer this morning getting the hood release cable replaced on my Defender (the cable pulls out of the handle apparently on just about every Defender they've seen) when I had a chance to talk with one of the sales people. He was pretty nice and even let me watch a LRNA video that was produced for the sales personnel at the dealerships, not for civilians like me. Here's what I learned from the conversation and video: 1.) Apparently only 500 Defender 110's were brought in for '93 because this was the maximum number permissible without meeting DOT safety requirements. This may be but I wonder if LRNA didn't want the 110 cluttering up their offerings once the Discovery was released. 2.) A hardtop Defender 90 will be available in '95 although the specifics were unknown and he said it would be fiberglass. Based on what I've heard here on the net I suspect he was confusing the retrofit fiberglass top with the factory installed metal top. 3.) There is to be a 2-3% across the board price hike for '95. 4.) This particular dealer has sold about 6 Defender 90's a month (southern California). 5.) This dealer got 2 "special edition" 90's. One was pre-sold and the other sold the day it was received. 6.) There will be NO Defender 90's imported after the '95 model year. The reason given was safety, specifically the fact that there are no airbags on the Defender and I suppose no plan to fit them (no doubt this would involve some significant design and engineering efforts). From the discussion it seems that SUV's (which the Defender is classed as) and pickups must meet the same safety requirements as autos, or at least have airbags, in '96. I wonder about this so does anyone out there know if this is correct? Usually there is some sort of GVWR exception threshold (such as for emmissions etc.). Maybe in this case it's 8,000 or 10,000 lbs. 7.) The top delaership in terms of Defender 90 sales is located in Salt Lake City, UT. The salesperson with the highest sales of 90's is at a New Jersey dealership. 8.) The video makes some rather interesting suggestions about how to sell the Defender 90. Basically it should not be sold in the same manner as a Range Rover or Discovery. The Defender 90 should be presented in such a fashion so as to make an on-the-spot sale. Whereas the RR and Discovery can be presented based on their rational attributes the salesperson should build on the potential buyer's feelings with respect to the Defender and the buyer should not be allowed to build a list of why nots as it would quickly grow and the sale would most likely be lost. One of the salespersons interviewed said that he was seeing middle-aged men who used to buy Corvettes come in and buy Defender's. It should be noted that other points of view were expressed. It seemed that the method which worked was dependent on where the dealer was located. One dealership said they let the Defender sell itself by presenting its technical attributes and displaying them outdoors where they could be seen from the adjacent interstate. 9.) There is a nifty new "bull" bar available for the 90's. It's one of those cute little jobs which is the shape of a hoop (i.e. an upsidedown u). It's about as wide as the radiator grill so it protects just about nothing. Even the salesperson I spoke with called it "mickey mouse". I hope that this is not an omen as to what we can expect in terms of future products. BTW I've seen some pictures of the new Range Rover and while it looks good (especially compared to the competition) it doesn't look like a Land Rover or Range Rover ought to. It's too "clean". Usefulness of brush bars aside they can look good on the "old" Range Rover but they will be totally out of place on the new one (just like they are on every other American and Japanese SUV except maybe the Land Cruiser). Well, that's my opinion. I hope someone finds something I've said here interesting . Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 16:42:00 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. To: 72700.3262@compuserve.com (Stephen O'Hearn) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 14:39:07 PDT Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <941014211414_72700.3262_DHE36-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stephen O'Hearn" at Oct 14, 94 5:14 pm Status: RO > > I was down at the dealer this morning getting the hood release cable > replaced on my Defender (the cable pulls out of the handle apparently on > just about every Defender they've seen) when I had a chance to talk with > one of the sales people. He was pretty nice and even let me watch a LRNA > video that was produced for the sales personnel at the dealerships, not for > civilians like me. Here's what I learned from the conversation and video: > We pulled out a cable on the demo model at the rally. Being the resourceful fellow that we are, we took some string, and a land rover key fob and tied it to the cable under the grill so one could open the hood. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 17:31:05 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 15:27:47 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 72700.3262@compuserve.com, land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. Status: RO Yes -- Thanks Stephen for the info on Defender 90's. I know lots of us are interested! Personally I am disappointed if it's true the 90 won't be imported after next year -- I think that's disgusting! I was secretly hoping to get one one day. I can't help thinking Land Rover is steadily going soft in the head, so to speak, and moving away from its tradition of building uncompromising vehicles which are the best off-road vehicles on the market. As for the new Range Rover, it looks like a prime example to me. When the first RR came out it was the best off-road vehicle in the world; in the case of the new one that contention would be highly debatable. It seems to me that if Land Rover tries to out-Explorer Ford they are doomed to lose in the long run. While at the San Rafael dealership recently I was reading some words of wisdom from Charlie Hughes on the success of LRNA since 1987. There was depressingly little evidence that off-road ability was considered a factor at all in the company's sales strategy. I suppose the best one can say is that they still give it a bit more emphasis than the competition! Well, perhaps these views are a bit too cynical -- sorry to blow off steam about this! Cheers John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 17:50:34 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> Cc: Land Rover Digest Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. In-Reply-To: <941014211414_72700.3262_DHE36-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On 14 Oct 1994, Stephen O'Hearn wrote: > BTW I've seen some pictures of the new Range Rover and while it looks good > (especially compared to the competition) it doesn't look like a Land Rover > or Range Rover ought to. It's too "clean". Usefulness of brush bars aside > they can look good on the "old" Range Rover but they will be totally out of > place on the new one (just like they are on every other American and > Japanese SUV except maybe the Land Cruiser). Well, that's my opinion. > I agree from what I've seen. It seems to me the clean sheet redesign of the RR could have been used to do more than make it into a BMW. Why not use the opportunity to also enhance off-road capability so it really could claim to be the best there is -- e.g. they could have increased wheel travel even further, used either electronically disconnecting sway bars or an active electronic suspension to avoid the need for sway bars at all, use bigger diameter wheels/tires and increase ground clearance, and improve rather than worsen the breakover and departure angles. Maybe those are tall orders, but it seems to me that if the RR is not going to try to be the best all-round off roader, but merely the most luxurious, something will have been lost. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 22:56:23 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:51:45 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally\Great Expedition Book To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO First, let me complement Sandy Grice and everyone else who helped to make the Mid-Atlantic Rally a wonderful event. This was the first rally I've ever attended, so I was not sure what to expect. Finding the large tents, complete with shrubs and planters, at each stake is just one example of the detail and extensive preparation given the site. Given the size of some of the mowed down stubble in the fields, again I must think that a lot of effort was extended to prepare the site. I must confess I was one of many who lost a rear corner bumper cap as the rear dragged dropping into the creek crossing. However, as I pointed out to several folks, the missing portion of my front spoiler was previously deposited in Ohio. As this makes the umpteenth time I've lost the rear bumper caps, it may be time to find an alternative, functional, design. Anyway, I liked the looks of the Camel Trophy Great Expedition Book at the silent auction. (Others liked it more than I on Sunday after I had to leave). To wit, I've gone to my local bookstore in an attempt to order such. Unfortunately, we could not find it listed within the books in print computer. Does anyone have a copy from which you could post to me the ISBN number? More impressions of the Rally: - Friday night was cold, dog was shivering violently even as she slept. she even tolerated being completly covered over with my extra blanket, to little effect. (It may be time to wean her off the waterbed) - I know much less about Land Rovers than I thought. - Very comforting to arrive and actually know other LRO list members were around. - The dealership had less than a stellar display. One new Range Rover and one used Range Rover. Maybe they were low key on purpose? - Defender 90, I saw, I drove, I want. ($$$ ouch, no time soon I guess) - An overw orry , gotta go, out of time Andrew 87 RR Dayton, Ohio From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 13:05:20 1994 To: lro@team.net From: "Jan Beckwith" Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:01:04 +0700 Subject: Series I Priority: normal Status: RO I have a friend in Caldwell, Idaho who has LR - about 1955 if I remember correctly - that she wants to get rid of. It has been sitting outside by the barn for years and years. I am going over to look at it next weekend, but thought I better try to get some info first. She told me that it still turns over. It has a hard top and the doors are intact. Someone else who drove by and looked at it (just glanced) earlier this year said there were a whole lot of parts lying around, it sounded like electrical... I have a Series 1 in my garage that had stood out for a long time too. Everything that could rot - did. I was thinking about buying her's for parts. But I don't know how I would get it over here. Or if it would be worth it, if it isn't in any better shape than mine. Any advice? I know better than to ask what it might be worth since I don't really know what shape it is in. At this point I was thinking of offering her $500. She needs to get rid of it right away because she has finally "sold the farm." She said she saw an ad in the Nickle shopper from someone in Seattle looking for Rovers of any type. Would that be anyone on LRO? She was going to call the number this week. I'll admit that I know nothing about cars! The farthest I have gotten is bicycle maintenance classes. But now I am looking for a course to take in auto repair. I have a book/manual and am trying to figure out how I can get started by this winter (since it is snowing - just barely - out there today, I guess I have waited too long!) Jan B. ---------------------------------------------------------- Jan Beckwith,Pharm.D. beckjan@elixir.isu.edu Idaho Drug Information Service (208) 236-4689 Campus Box 8092 FAX (208) 236-4687 Pocatello, ID 83209 Idaho State University ----------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 00:41:17 1994 From: FHYap@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 01:35:10 -0400 Sender: FHYap@aol.com To: lro@team.net Subject: Oil consumption Status: RO I have been informed by a LR mechanic that the 3.9V8 should not consume more than 1 quart per 5,000 miles and that this limit is an EPA requirement. Does anyone know of any EPA or other federal regulation (or statute) regarding allowable oil consumption? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 10:31:45 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Universal in the hand crank Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 08:26:29 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I finally got sick of not having a way to start the Rover without rolling it. Last night Dad and I modified the crank so that I could use it and still have my winch mounted on front. For those of you who don't know, I mounted my winch so the cable pulls in line with the frame. To do this the cable pulls through the bumper. This killed use of handcrank because the winch blocks the crank hole. I though that if I cut the crank and welded in a universal, then I could pass the crank under the bumper and all would be well. I don't have a welder, so we had to think of a more ingenious solution. What we did was cut the handcrank in a place that would put the universal joint's knee just coming out of the forward pto hole in the front crossmember. On the crank side, we used the grinder and a file to make a 1/2 inch square end that would fit into my Craftsman 1/2 inch drive universal. On the engine end we ground and filed the crank end to a 9/16 inch hex that fit the appropriate socket. Now when cranking you have a little hole in the bumpter that alignes the crank and doesn't allow the crank to flop around when you try to start your Rover. We drilled and installed a U bolt under the bumper to fulfill this purpose. I will leave this on from most of the time. When I go off road, since I know that sooner or later something will bend that small U bolt back, I'll remove the U bolt. (And curse the heavens above when the Rover stalls and I have to put it back in (after clearing out the inevitable mud in the bumper)) And the best part of this fabrication is that I tested it out this morning and it works. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 11:48:41 1994 X-Sendmail-Version: 8.6.9 X-Authentication-Info: costales@localhost From: costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Bryan Costales) X-Zmail-Id: <9410150944.ZM1371@ICSI.Berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 09:44:51 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Series III 88" for sale Status: RO For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover 88" wheel base, 3 door, red body with white top Presently located in Berkeley, California. Status: Lubed and tuned. Still need to wash, kill the spiders, and vacuum out. Features: Full size, "hot dip" galvanized rack w/stainless steel hardware. 2-barrel Weber carbruator with cable linkage. Stainless steel exhaust (with standard header). Spin-on oil filter adapter. Fully converted to synthetic oil (sump, gears and diff). 70 alternator, and electronic ignition (starts immediately). CB, cassette deck, AM/FM radio, and remote burglar alarm. Stellite valves so it will run on unleaded. Superwinch overdrive. Very good 6/4 15" tires. IIA grill provides 4 headlamps (all work). Sound proof foam under hood an floor mats (runs quieter). Floor mats in front, "wrap around" carpeting in back. Built-in, lockable boxes provide vast internal storage. Padded tire on hood with seat belts for passanger. Shop manual, and lots of spare parts (axels, gaskets, etc). History: I am the second owner. I still have all the maintanance papers and documents from the original owner. Why: I am selling because I bought a new Land Rover Discovery. How Much: $10,000 cash, with lots of room for negotiation. You may contact me via: e-mail: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu phone: (510) 548-3115 home, (510) 642-4274 x127 work fax: (510) 644-4471 home, (510) 643-4274 work -- Bryan Costales -- Systems Manager, International Computer Science Institute Internet: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu BITNET: bcx@ucbicsi 37 degrees 52.193 minutes north by 122 degrees 16.277 minutes west From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:42 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 16 Oct 94 08:21:14 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I'm back!!! I'll tell you about my trip south in a later message. Heres some hot gossip in the mean time. A airborne elemnet of the Brit Paras tried out their New Pinzgauer's the other day, it turns out that they cant get the 12 people into it that they are used too. Although the MOD says that the PZG is not a 1 tonne LR replacemnt it is in reality, and thats the number of guys they could pack in one! Not a happy bunch. Ap[paraently a major film will be shot soemwhere soon using a large number of our favourite vehciles, no names no pack drill right now! Talk about not being popular, LRW are persona no gratia with the factory right now for breaking the embargo on the new Range Rover. From what I understand they retouched some photos and did a review from supposed "rumoured " sources. THats it for the minute Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:40 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 08:54:28 +1000 From: rwalker@dolphin.fen.qut.edu.au (Rodney Walker) Subject: My torrid love affair To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Cc: ra.walker@qut.edu.au X-Envelope-To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Length: 0 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: RO I finally went and picked up my series I yesterday. All the way home I'm looking in the rear view mirror at the twisted and deformed grille of the Landy on the car trailer behind me, thinking what have I started. I'm terrible when I'm buying something that I really want. You read about it, study it, until you think you know every thing about it. Then you go look at one in the flesh, and you're stunned. You look over it ( because no one buys a car without looking it over right? ), but you knew that you were going to buy "her" the instant you stepped into the back paddock and laid eyes on her for the first time. This is like a passionate love affair. Nothing seems to matter except that we have each other. "Rusted bulkhead, that's OK we can work it out". "No brakes, we can fix those". You know that you must have her. You attempt to barter with the owner, but he knows that he's got you over a barrel. He sensed it as soon as you slipped behind the wheel with that big cheesy grin and started changing gears and making Vroom noises. You make the purchase and then you must leave, because the week-end is over and you must come back later with a trailer to pick up your prize. "I'll come back for you my love" you think to yourself as you depart. >From the moment you leave and step into your car to go home, all you can think about is the prize that you just purchased. You count down the days. Your memory fades, no longer do you recall the rusted bulkhead or the fact that the brakes don't work. You recall an almost new 1955 series I landrover that just needs fuel and a battery to get her going. These are your happiest times, everything is going to be OK. You're in denial. So you go pick up your Landy. She still looks beautiful, though you don't remember all those dent on the sides. You finalise the purchase and start loading her onto the trailer. As you're loading her onto the trailer you notice sunlight shining through the chassis "Gee I don't remember rust in the chassis". When shes up on the trailer you can see a whole world of things you didn't notice before; rusted knuckles, worn shackles, missing tailshaft. It seems everywhere you look another problem arises. You start to try and kid yourself "Yeah OK, I knew that she needed a little work". Your friends simply look at you and laugh. As you leave you calm down somewhat. You can't see her anymore except for the glimpses that you catch in the rear view mirror. You get her home and put her in your back yard (way down in the corner). You freshen up, have a shower, have a beer, relax. You step out onto the back patio late in the afternoon and you see a dented, rusty old landrover in your back yard with one smashed headlight, a cracked windshield and a twisted bumper. The rose coloured glasses are off. You wanted her and now you've got her. You don't care if she's not as beautiful as she once was "she's got character" you say, and your friends laugh again. At the end of the night, before you head off to bed you go out one more time. You sit in your Landy and imagine what it'll be like when you get her going. As you drift off to sleep, all you can think about is the which part you're going to fix first. Rod ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rodney A. Walker 44 Ford GPW Space Centre for Satellite Navigation 44 Willys MB Queensland University of Technology 88 Cherokee George St, Brisbane 90 Wrangler 4000, Queensland, Australia 85 CJ7, 85 J10 voice +61-7-8705187 44 GPA, 44 Dodge Truck fax +61-7-8641517 79 Cherokee Cheif ***55 Series 1 Land Rover ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:40 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:54:49 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO Take me off this mailing list. I have tried your electronic un-subscribe and it doesn't seem to work. Quit sending me this. I am not sure how I can make this any clearer. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:40 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Series III 88" for sale To: costales@icsi.berkeley.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Nice Rover Bryan... but I wonder about the features.... > For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover > 88" wheel base, 3 door, red body with white top > Presently located in Berkeley, California. > snip---snip > Features: Full size, "hot dip" galvanized rack w/stainless steel > IIA grill provides 4 headlamps (all work). (can't be Lucas!!) > Built-in, lockable boxes provide vast internal storage. (VAST!! in an 88????) > Padded tire on hood with seat belts for passanger. (Ah-ha.. the optional mother-in-law seat!) Sorry Bryan... I just couldn't resist!! :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 11:25:02 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@team.net, FHYap@aol.com Subject: Re: Oil consumption Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410150124014248138@aol.com> Status: RO > >I have been informed by a LR mechanic that the 3.9V8 should not consume more >than 1 quart per 5,000 miles and that this limit is an EPA requirement. Does >anyone know of any EPA or other federal regulation (or statute) regarding >allowable oil consumption? If there is a federal regulation regarding OIL CONSUMPTION, or leaking 90w, then there are a lot of us outlaw drippin renegades putting around in those "snot a jeeps". I hope Mr Al Gore isn't out there reading this cause he knows where I live. It's alright Sally Anne, he got what he deserves. He's been leavin a trail o gear oil for nigh onta a year now. Somebody hadda stop him, I hear they shot him right in the ear as he dripped his way into pep boys to stash up on Castrol. Farewell my friends Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 12:03:15 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:52:20 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rwalker@dolphin.fen.qut.edu.au, LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: My torrid love affair Status: RO Rodney, Your not the first on the list to purchase a previously unloved fixer upper that has been sitting around. My series II 109 pickup was sitting for a couple of years, crippled up fron being driven without oil in the rear diff and transfer case; missing a lot of parts; many of the existing parts ready to fall off and badly worn. That was in '78. I still own her and over the years she has become so much a part of me I can't imagine not having the Green Rover around. Dixon towed his first Land Rover home from where it was sitting for several years. He spent a lot of time rebuilding it and finally got it going about a year and a half ago. Its how many of us got started with Land Rovers. However, it sounds like you do have a full blown frome off restoration project on you hands. I suggest that you break it down into many small doable projects and don't look at the whole job. The first thing you might want to do is go over it with a camera taking as many close up detail photos as you can, then follow it up sith sketches & notes. Next take the body off the frame so you can deal with the frame rust, bulkhead and running gear. Pulling the body off is not as big a deal as it may seem, and will allow you to fix it right. I have been working on a frame off restoration on my TR3 for almost 5 years now. The body is on the frame, the doors & front wings are on, the suspension and steering are all renewed, the engine and transmission are ready to go in. It took a long time and a LOT of work, but I will soon have a new TR3 on the road where a badly rusted worn out fugitive from a wrecking yard once existed. Take care & good luck on your new series I TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 12:55:58 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:41:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Tyre sizes Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Rob Meridith writes: >I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre >sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me. > >For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what >tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which >size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. I don't pretend to be able to offer the "definitive" explanation, but do have a few comments to offer. I don't think there is any particular magic in rim diameter; it is just one of several factors to consider. I think that you should start with a serious look at your driving needs and decide which ones you want most to optimize. Any tyre you select will be a compromise unless it is very single-purpose, such as (maybe) a studded snow tyre or an off-road only tyre such as Goodyear Terra, Avon Treadlite, or Babcross/Maxicross trials tyre. When you consider what purpose is most important in your choice of tyre, that doesn't necessarily mean the use that involves the most miles. For a Land-Rover, even if you drive on the road much more than off-road, you may well want a serious off-road tyre for when you do get off-road. After all, you are driving a serious off-road machine and may well want to compromise on-road performance for off-road performance, as you did when you selected the vehicle in the first place. So, what's most important? Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that you want a serious off-road tyre, say for mud: well, you want something really aggressive which will clean. I won't delve into the controversy of directional v. non-directional but, generally, for mud, you want the tyre to be relatively tall and narrow. For this application, it is easier to fill the bill with a 16" rim, as it starts out taller. Even though not all mud tyres are still available in 7.50x16, many are. This is a good choice of size for mud for a Land-Rover and is very popular with many owners. This size is pushing it for power, though. As low-geared as Land-Rovers are, they are still gutless. If you have a good, strong engine and tight drivetrain, you'll be alright with this size; if your Rover is tired, you'll probably not be too happy. 7.00x16 works better with the standard gearing and power but is getting kind of hard to find (at least in the U.S.), especially in radials (which I strongly prefer), an exception being the wonderful Michelin XCL which is available in all sorts of 16" sizes, but not in the U.S. A friend of mine in the U.S. just bought six new XCLs for his Camel Trophy 110 and had to pay about $200 apiece for them. I don't know if I think they are that wonderful. >From your e-mail address and spelling of "tyre" I gather that you are probably in the U.K. You can presumably get the XCLs more readily. I note, from reading LRO, that SATs (Firestone Super All-Tractions) are very popular in the U.K., probably because it tends to get a lot more mud than most places in the U.S. You rarely see them here in the U.S. anymore, although, as far as I know, they are still available. I have had them and don't like them. They are too single-purpose (as in no good backing up), too noisy, and too rough-riding (nylon bias casing). Admitedly, XCLs are also directional, noisy, and rough riding, just (I understand) not as much so. Oops, I said I'd stay out of the directional/non-directional controversy--I lied. The nominal diameter of a 7.50x16 is about 32" or so, maybe 33". The "modern" replacement for that size is the 235/85x16 which is about 9" wide, or so, and about the same overall diameter as the 7.50 (radial). Another consideration is that the actual static (loaded) rolling radius of the tyre will be substantially less than half of its "nominal" diameter and the static radius of a radial will be considerably less than that of a bias-ply tyre of the same nominal diameter. All this affects your gearing. If you go with the 7.50x16, you should (at a minimum) be using the 5.5x16 wheel from a 109, as the 16" wheels from an 88 are only 5" wide (at least the older ones sold in the U.S.), OK for a 7.00x16, though. For the 235/85x16, you should, I feel, be using at least a 6" wide wheel, preferably wider. One-ton Land-Rover and (I think) U.S. Defender 110, as well as Defender 130 wheels are 6.5" wide and plenty strong for hard off-road use. They are, however, very difficult and/or expensive to come by (at least in the U.S.; maybe not so in U.K.). Rovers North sells them in the U.S. but, boy, are they pricey! Steel Discovery wheels are, I believe, 7" wide and inexpensively available in U.K. I don't know how strong they are; I do think they look great. If you have 15" wheels (as original on the Series III 88 in the U.S.), they will be 6" wide. There is a mud tyre which will work rather well: It is the B.F. Goodrich Mud-Terrain, which is available in size 33x9.50x15, which is pretty comparable to the 235/85x16 but fits the 15" wheels. The only other choice available that I can think of, which would be close, is the Buckshot Radial Mudder, advertised in some of the American four-wheel drive magazines. As I recall, it is 32" in nominal diameter (probably only available in the U.S.). If you are looking more for a summer off-roading tyre or one which will balance the summer and winter considerations, the 30x9.50x15 should be a reasonable choice and is available in mud-terrain, all-terrain, and all sorts of other patterns. This size gives you a little increase in clearance over the original equipment tyres, an improvement in flotation, reasonable gearing, and is not so wide as to totally ruin mud and snow performance. I have tried all sorts of types and sizes of tyres and am currently running 31x10.50x15 Norseman Treadlock Radials on 8x15 wheels. In general, I am pretty happy with these, as they ride well, are not too noisy, and work reasonably well under a full variety of summer and winter conditions. One of my strong considerations is fording rivers and I find that these wider tyres do that much better than the narrow ones (at least the narrow ones that I have tried). 8x15 wheels for a Land-Rover are kind of hard to come by in the U.S. but (I notice from ads in LRO) readily available in the U.K. (if you don't mind the "white spoke" look--mine are actually on Land-Rover centers). Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. The right height, width, carcass construction, load capacity, and tread pattern for your intended use are the important considerations. If you would care to share how you intend to use your Land-Rover, clarify where you live, and what diameter and rim width you now have to work with, I am sure that any number of LRO-netters can offer you more advice than you ever would have hoped for! Have fun! Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 13:20:18 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:35:13 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Crane/Allison XR700 Points Conversion Status: RO For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I am also supposed to be getting their full catalogue so I will pass on any more news I can get from that. This unit replaces the points/condensor in the distributor with an optical/electrical trigger to fire the coil. Crane's technical assistanc can be reached at USA 904-258-6174 or fax 904-258-6167 I believe these units sell for around $100 to $120. There is also a similar looking unit in the Whitney catalogue for about $20 less. Their unit will also I believe work with the Ducellier distributor. I think John R. Benham has this unit working in his Rover (John correct me if I'm wrong). I know that Lumenition makes something that is similar and I think more expensive then the Crane unit. Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 14:57:24 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:49:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. Status: RO >6.) There will be NO Defender 90's imported after the '95 model year. The >reason given was safety, specifically the fact that there are no airbags on >the Defender and I suppose no plan to fit them (no doubt this would involve >some significant design and engineering efforts). From the discussion it >seems that SUV's (which the Defender is classed as) and pickups must meet >the same safety requirements as autos, or at least have airbags, in '96. I >wonder about this so does anyone out there know if this is correct? Usually >there is some sort of GVWR exception threshold (such as for emmissions >etc.). Maybe in this case it's 8,000 or 10,000 lbs. LRNA reps at the Mid-Atlantic Rally claimed that this would happen after the 1997 model year. They sited safety restrictions as the reason. Incidentally, the reason given for no diesels in the U.S.was that the engine wouldn't pass California Emissions Standards, and that Land-Rover can't afford to import a 49 state care. When asked when we might see a U.S. Diesel the response was "Don't hold your breath." Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 15:04:29 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:51:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Universal in the hand crank Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Thanks for sharing your ingenious solution to a common problem! I think, after listening to all that you went through, however, that I would go to a welder (I can't weld either, dammit) and have the solution you first suggested, namely, welding a universal into the crank. I also think that a guide bracket could be welded on, attached to the bottom of the bumper, but placed far enough back to be well within the structure, rather than hanging down into the ramp angle, as the U-bolt in the bottom of the bumper tends to be. I will have to consider your idea when I get ready to install my Tensen winch. I got it from Gord'n Perrott of Seattle. I mentioned to him my concern for keeping the winch low but still being able to crank-start. He showed me his installation (actually on Stephanie's Land-Rover) which has the winch sitting pretty low, so the pull is nearly in line with the frame, yet just barely allows the stock alignment of the crank, with the crank rubbing up against the bottom of the cable on the spool. Another solution that I have considered is to mount the winch just high enough to have the crank work when all or at least much of the cable is played out. You can pull it out by hand (by free-spooling the winch) then, after you have successfully crank-started the engine, use the power to wind the cable back in. Not too convenient, but how often do I expect to have to crank start? (I won't go installing the winch at all until I have the whole electric system pretty well spiffed up, including a dual battery set-up with isolating circuitry). Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 15:04:25 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:52:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jan Beckwith" From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Derelict Series I: Buy it? Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Jan, you said: >I have a friend in Caldwell, Idaho who has LR - about 1955 if I >remember correctly - that she wants to get rid of. It has been sitting >outside by the barn for years and years. I am going over to look at it >next weekend, but thought I better try to get some info first. She told >me that it still turns over. [snip-snip] >At this point I was thinking of offering her $500. That sounds like the most you'd want to pay, unless hers has some special equipment you want to get your hands on, like an overdrive, winch, or something. >She needs to get rid of it right away because she has finally "sold the >farm." [snipity-snip] That should indicate that a lower price offer might work, say $200-$300. Although, I realize, she is your friend... ;^o >She said she saw an ad in the Nickle shopper from someone in >Seattle looking for Rovers of any type. Would that be anyone on LRO? >She was going to call the number this week. Well, what's the number? My guess would be Gord'n Perrott (not on the Internet). >I'll admit that I know nothing about cars! The farthest I have gotten is >bicycle maintenance classes. But now I am looking for a course to take >in auto repair. I have a book/manual and am trying to figure out how I >can get started by this winter (since it is snowing - just barely - out >there today, I guess I have waited too long!) In light of what you are saying in this paragraph, I wonder why you think that you might want a parts Rover. If you do plan to work on yours, if it will likely need a fair measure of the parts likely to be usable from hers, if you have room to have a parts vehicle without getting arrested, and if the price is right, it might just be a good idea. I myself have several parts-and/or- project Land-Rovers but I'm an admitted gonzo Land-Rover nut and have 2.5 acres in the country. Even at that, I sometimes wonder what I've gotten myself into. 8^]> Best Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 15:29:28 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:25:05 -0500 From: "David K. Hudson" To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Subject: 89RR Tires? I'm also looking for tires, but for my wife's 89RR. The only place I've found here in St. Louis, MO with the stock 205R16 MX+S244 wants $175 each installed. Other similar size tires are about $110. Any net wisdom/ experience on the subject? Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly different sizes on front and rear? Thanks, Dave Hudson PS I struck gold on my last net query. Someone recommended a BMW replacement for a RR coolant level sensor. The BMW part 61-31-1-375-715 at $22.48 was identical to the Rover part PRC5077 at $55 (from same dealer in STL). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 21:00:09 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:40:44 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Drippy Landys To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Jon writes: >> If there is a federal regulation regarding OIL CONSUMPTION, or leaking 90w, then there are a lot of us outlaw drippin renegades putting around in those "snot a jeeps". I hope Mr Al Gore isn't out there reading this cause he knows where I live. >> Jon, If ol' Al is sharp enough to follow your 90wt trail to your domicile, just cut Lassie loose and sick her on him. I often worry about Greenpeace chaining themselves to my D-rings in an effort to save those poor helpless insects unfortunate enough to make a path across my driveway. If there is a federal regulation regarding oil consumption, it is either brand new or they have been trying to keep it a secret. While we're on the subject, after tightening my oil filter housing, my oil consumption went from 3 qts per 250 miles from Cape Cod to NJ to less than a quart for 1000 miles + from NJ to VA and back. I was very pleased (and a little embarrassed). A little Baloney from Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 21:02:04 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 14:10:01 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Allison Ignition To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Greg writes: >> For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I am also supposed to be getting their full catalogue so I will pass on any more news I can get from that. This unit replaces the points/condensor in the distributor with an optical/electrical trigger to fire the coil... I believe these units sell for around $100 to $120. >> Greg, The Allison is a very good unit. I've had one on my Volvo 145 for 6 years now and have had no problems. Installation was straightforward but you do need to drill a hole in the side of the distributor to feed in the wiring harness. My points were clean and set correctly before I installed it so I only got 1/2 mpg improvement. However, there was no degradation of ignition and gas mileage that I experienced over time with points (300-350 miles/wk) and cold starting and running were somewhat better (they also claim that the unit is immune to shaft wobble - mine was OK so I can't verify that, but it makes sense in theory). If your goal is to save money via increased gas mileage and ending annual points and condenser purchases, the payback takes a while. If your goal is less maintenance and better running (and less deterioration over time), an electronic ignition kit may be worthwhile. I am planning to install one on my 88 possibly this spring. Moss Motors sells them for $100. Their number is 800-235-6954 in US and Canada. A little Cheese from Baloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From ccray Tue Oct 18 08:31:40 1994 Subject: Re: Allison Ignition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:31:40 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1775 Status: RO > >Greg writes: > >>> > >For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic >ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told >me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I have had an Allison electronic ignition unit on my MGB for about 10 years now. My 1980 MGB had a lucas electronic ignition and I replaced it with the Allison unit. Gas mileage and improved running were not the issues -- a reliable unit was. So, here is my advice: Keep your receipts. I have had to send the Allison unit back three times (with the receipts). They have fixed it each time under the lifetime guarantee. The unit just fails after a couple of years. You will be driving down the road -- loss of power for a split second -- then all ok. Gets worse -- longer and more frequent. Then total failure. There is a power transistor that can't take the heat (what I understand in talking with mechanics). I have had a couple of weeks of warning in all cases. If I remember the initial installation correctly, you replace the points with an electronic sensor, so on a Land Rover you could put back in the old innards while the electronic unit was being rebuilt.... I don't know what I will do next time since (I think) Crane bought out Allison and who knows what their guarantee policy is. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 17:34:10 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:02:54 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Camel Trophy Book Status: RO Several of you have mentioned the Camel Trophy book. Incidentally, it was purchased by Chris Laws (Badger Coachworks) for $62 at the silent auction. For those who want to order diredtly, the price is $65 US plus postage from Switzerland ($-??). The publisher- SQP SA - takes Visa, MC, Amex and Diners. Write them at: Camel Trophy - SQP SA P.O. Box 129 1025 St. Sulpice Switzerland or call 41.21/691.05.95 or FAX to 41.21/691.06.00. (You figure out the country code, etc.) Tell 'em you got the address from ROAV...as they were kind enough to donate the book to us. The text is printed in English, German and French. One of the disappointments of the rally was the lack of demo models from LRNA. Though they helped out with a significant monetary contribution, they couldn't bring a Disco down (selling too fast). Also, the US debut of the metal-top Defender 90 was supposed to happen, but.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 17:20:36 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:13:53 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: FHYap@aol.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Oil consumption Status: RO I guess the EPA would not approve of mine then!! John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 17:27:00 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:23:01 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: RR tires Status: RO The last two stock 205 R16 Michelins I have bought from the dealers were $145 installed installed; one from Scott Motors in Reno and one from RAB motors in San Rafael. I understand the price had recently dropped (it used to be $200+) -- I wonder if your dealer is still using the old price?? Interesting news bout the coolant sensor -- mine also failed and I pulled iot apart & fixed it rather than cough up for a new one. Re the tires -- the tires themselves were $125 each, plus installation. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 20:02:03 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:42:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Brown To: Land Rover Messages to Digest Cc: "Howard D. Gross" Subject: Importing Parts to Connecticut,USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hello Rover owners, My name is Greg Brown and I am new to the digest. I own a '71 88 Series IIA (well loved). The reason for my first message is a Graduate class entitled "Information and the Future Organization". A project for the class has to deal with defining a need, finding the solution and communicating it to the right crowd. Well the need is a economical avenue to obtain Land Rover parts in Connecticut. The solution is what I am looking for. The customers will be defined as the members of The Yankee Rover Club. My first question today is whether anyone knows of a source in England that I can contact to obtain a parts listing and prices? Maybe one someone on the Net is a supplier? or would someone be interested in being a liaison to help us acquire parts? Well hope someone can help. Tread lightly. Greg Brown (gerg) '71 88 Series IIA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 19:58:46 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: MIKE LODICE To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 17:55:09 PDT Status: RO Don't you just hate being the subject of a Email..... I lost you Email, But I do work for cisco the networking company. I am a Network engineer (Really I plug holes). At the moment I am sold to Ford Motor Co. where I am babysitting a network, some customers , and a Saleman. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:23:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: My torrid love affair From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 21:51:40 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > Your not the first on the list to purchase a previously unloved fixer upper t > has been sitting around. My series II 109 pickup was sitting for a couple of > years, crippled up fron being driven without oil in the rear diff and transfe > case; missing a lot of parts; many of the existing parts ready to fall off an > badly worn. That was in '78. I still own her and over the years she has bec > so much a part of me I can't imagine not having the Green Rover around. Sounds like the 109. Sat for 15 years because the PO couldn't ever finish converting from a generator to an alternator, positive earth to negative earth. (Actually my proposal is to goto an alternator, but I am going to rebuild a LUCAS alternator into a positive earth model... :-)) > Dixon towed his first Land Rover home from where it was sitting for several > years. He spent a lot of time rebuilding it and finally got it going about a > year and a half ago. And then drove it through the forest for another two years and learned that off-roading is not really that cheap (expect to blow away a set of shoes every year minimum, a set of drums every two or three years, abnormally high wear on the clutch plate... and this is if you take the proper precautions and after mudding routine seriously. (See the October OVLR for an article on this. I'll post it here when I get a chance) Go through fine clay as found at a couple of sites up here and you can kiss a set of shoes good-bye in one afternoon)) All in all, it has been an interesting learning experience. The net has provided a lot of good advice and taking the thing apart several times teaches you a lot. (Don't let this disuade you from embracing Land Rovers, experience will show you it is the only way to understand and appreciate a vehicle) > > Its how many of us got started with Land Rovers. It really is the only way, but having someone to ask questions to is very important. Having the wealth of knowledge locally with OVLR is a god send, having a good number of those members as licenced mechanics helps tremendously. Of course such encouragement leads to a situation where I now have nine of these things. (Anyone interested in a 109 pick-up? I have a few... :-)) > However, it sounds like you do have a full blown frome off restoration > projec on your hands. I suggest that you break it down into many small > doable projects and don't look at the whole job. Debateable. Maybe to the first time owner this makes a lot of sense. To someone who is more experienced, and familiar with Land Rovers it doesn't. To do it all again today the biggest factor is encouragement, encouragement, encouragement. Without that, spend the US$8,000 and get yourself a really nice Land Rover. With encouragement for friends, the net, and others, you can take apart those axles, replace the springs, and do a lot of the nasty jobs that really need to be done. Do you really want to do this several times? It sounds a bit daunting, but think of the end result. To do the 109 properly, it should have been taken apart down to the frame. Did it make sense at the time? No, not really, but it still has to be done. The frame is slowly getting soft and the more I play with Land Rovers, the more sense getting a new frame to start with is. > The first thing you might want to do is go over it with a camera taking as > many close up detail photos as you can, then follow it up sith sketches & > notes. This makes a lot of sense. It might seem simple when you take it apart, but you can bet that you will scratch your head when it comes time to put it together again. Having the factory manuals are a must if you seriously wish to tackle a restoration project. Too many reference materials is never a bad thing. After you have played with a few Land Rovers, taken them apart and put them back together, you can start to cut corners (so to speak) Join the Series I club, and if there isn't one nearby, join one farther afield, or a Land Rover club that has a lot of Series I's. > Next take the body off the frame so you deal with the frame rust, bulkhead > and running gear. Pulling the body off is not as big a deal as it may seem, Frame is always the biggest hassle and weak point on a Land Rover. Having the frame in fine shape is the majority of the battle. The rest of the body is just a bunch of nuts and bolts and about an hour or so with a friend to pull off. > It took a long time and a LOT of work, but I will soon have a new TR3 on > the road where a badly rusted worn out fugitive from a wrecking yard once > existed. The only way. Not only do you have something that you appreciate and know, but something that others will appreciate and admire. The other small factor, is that if you ever have to sell the pet, you will get a lot more for something done right thanfor a quick patch job. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:23:16 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tyre sizes From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 22:40:39 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) writes: > Rob Meridith writes: > > >I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre > >sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me. > > > >For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what > >tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which > >size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. > > I don't pretend to be able to offer the "definitive" explanation, but do > have a few comments to offer. I don't think there is any particular magic > in rim diameter; it is just one of several factors to consider. There is. A North American 88 will most likely have 15" rims. Besides using them as door stops and getting 16" rims, the fact to bear in mind is how large a tire you can mount on that rim. There are two types of 16" rims over here. The wide and narrow rims. The 109's had wider rims and will happily take a 750/16 tire. The narrow rims are recommended to 700/16 though you can put the larger tire on them (granted I have seen 900/16's on an 88") but it is not really recommended. Rim diameter does matter. 15" rims suck for all sorts of reasons from fuel economy, top speed, to how good a mud tire you can toss onto it. > Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. > The right height, width, carcass construction, load capacity, and tread > pattern for your intended use are the important considerations. If you > would care to share how you intend to use your Land-Rover, clarify where you > live, and what diameter and rim width you now have to work with, I am sure > that any number of LRO-netters can offer you more advice than you ever would > have hoped for! You offer a lot of things to consider, however, if you are going to do a lot of road driving, get radials. Very simple. I have SATs and they are mind numbingly noisey going down the highway but look really cool at car shows and work very well off-road (I'll shut up before we start a tire war here, though a set of XCLs pulled a particular SAAB at 3am a lot better that the SATs did (I wonder if the wood pile had anything to do with that ... :-)). Radials have problems off-road in some conditions, advantages over bias-ply in other conditions. Radials seem to be more delicate off-road and do not seem to withstand some of the punishment from rock, sharp objects et cetera that can be encountered. 'tis a matter of horses for courses... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:21:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Universal in the hand crank From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 22:56:03 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) writes: > Not too convenient, but how often do I expect to have to crank start? Depends how often you go swimming in a lake or a swamp... Using winch cables to ground and jump start Land Rovers in several feet of water isn't necessarily fun if the crank had not been covered with a winch (A Koneig crank driven one in this case). Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:49:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Importing Parts to Connecticut,USA From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 23:19:07 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Gregory Brown writes: > My first question today is whether anyone knows of a source in England > that I can contact to obtain a parts listing and prices? Maybe one > someone on the Net is a supplier? or would someone be interested in being > a liaison to help us acquire parts? In short, the best is probably Merseyside in terms of catalogues from the UK. There are a few good parts suppliers, some bad ones. Grab a copy of the parts suppliers section out of the Land Rover FAQ for starters. For some parts, there is a chap nearby in Vermont (used to be in Taunton Mass.) who has a lot of parts. Mike Bunoudouci is his name, I'll send you his number when I get to work tomorrow. My ultimate solution was to bypass the parts suppliers in England and get a distributorship for BearMach which supplies Merseyside, Paddock, et al with aftermarket parts. For some stuff this is the way to go. For other parts, Genuine is the way to go and you might just find that Rovers North in Westford Vermont is a good place to look. As per price listings and catalogues, get ahold of the Rovers North catalogue. It is about the best you will find anywhere. Those I have received from the UK come no where near them for being complete, easy to use, and generally very useful to have around. Getting a catalogue from the UK can be a real pain and with what you receive probably not worth the effort. Rovers North is supposed to be supplying me with an ASCII dump of their complete parts catalogue (Their catalogue only has about 1/3 or their stock). WHen I receive this it will be available here to browse and after I am going to write a programme allowing people to query their database via mail messages. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:57:04 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 00:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MIKE LODICE To: burns@cisco.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"burns@cisco.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > Don't you just hate being the subject of a Email..... > It sure beats being in a police lineup.... > > I lost you Email, But I do work for cisco the networking company. > I am a Network engineer (Really I plug holes). At the moment I am This doesn't look good... a network engineer losing Email... :) Sounds like fun.... I spend most of my day catching stray electrons in the bit-bucket next to our AS/400.. Say.. you are the guy who hit the elk with a Range Rover, aren't you. (I'm terrible with names.) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 00:01:06 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 00:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: To: dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"dkh@howdy.wustl.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > > Subject: 89RR Tires? > > I'm also looking for tires, but for my wife's 89RR. The only place I've > found here in St. Louis, MO with the stock 205R16 MX+S244 wants $175 each > installed. Other similar size tires are about $110. Any net wisdom/ > experience on the subject? Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly > different sizes on front and rear? > > Thanks, > Dave Hudson > Dave... I won't profess any knowledge of Range Rovers, but as a general rule, it's not a good idea to use differant sized tires front and rear on ANY four-wheel drive vehicle. It does nasty things to your transmission/transfer case (or what have you). Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 04:18:41 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 05:12:38 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: 89RR Tires? Status: RO David K. Hudson wrote: > ..<...snip...snip...> Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly > different sizes on front and rear? Oh, no, no, don't do that! Your central diff will be "notsohappy", as Steve Denis might say... > I struck gold on my last net query. Someone recommended a BMW replacement > for a RR coolant level sensor. The BMW part 61-31-1-375-715 at $22.48 was > identical to the Rover part PRC5077 at $55 (from same dealer in STL). Thanks for the tip, it's just the part I need right now! Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 03:44:34 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:34:29 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:34:36 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Lix Toll Priority: normal Status: RO I don't know how if LRW changes it's advertising for international subscribers, so I don't know how many of you will have seen an advert for Lix Toll garage (Yes, Lix is significant -- it was the site of an old Roman toll booth) I went up there to have a look around. The garage used to look after my fathers motor boats when we taught water-skiing on a near-by loch, 10+ years ago (when we lived up that way) [That just reminds me of my *first* landrover trip -- Series I; 20 mph and the steering gearing jumps out. The guy slows down, shakes the 'wheel violently from side-to-side and it jumps back in.] The place has expanded now -- but it still has it's junk-jard out the back :-) The garage has 2 interesting rovers: A 109 Cuthbertson (reg: 8573 SP) and and Bog Rover - the one with 3' wheels (reg hbw 956 D), plus many scrapped machines (of all ages and models) There are also 2 scrap Scammel Explorers, but they've been lying so long that there are 7' trees growning through the chassis. As well as Land Rovers, the place seems to service UMMs as well :( If anyone is in the area, it will well worth visiting. mesmerising.... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 18:38:42 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Rod Walker Please read this!!!! To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 9:31:05 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi rod, I have been trying to mail this message to you for the past couple of weeks, but the mailer just comes back and says that it was unable to deliver it after 5 days, so hopefully you will recieve this, as you posted and article yesterday! > > Craig > > I finally got my series I landy. It turns out (I think) that it is a > 1955 model (the ser. no. starts 177XXXXXXX). It is fairly straight, the > rear body is flawless along with the doors and roof and bonnet but the > front guards have taken a bit of a beating. It still runs (I took > it for a spin around a paddock) but has no brakes. > > It came from a property out west so it is relatively rust free. Chassis is > sound in all the places you mentioned, but there is some rust on the > passengers side firewall. > > Initially I thought that it had it's original motor but I am unsure now. > It looks like a land rover motor (4cyl) but the distibutor sits up high > on the passengers side of the motor. The carby is on the driver's side and > the exhaust exits via the passenger's side mudguard. Do you recognise this > motor? > > Anyway it looks like a gem, and I souldn't have to do too much to it to get > it roadworthy and start having fun in it. > > Rod > Is the motor a X-flow? if so, it sounds like it has the original 2l motor in it, which ain't to bad, as long as you don't want to go real fast. With the rust, if it is in an good place, you might be able to cut it out, and weld in a new piece to take its place. My series 1 is still not going, as when I swapped bell housings to put the diesel in, a C ring, fell off the lay shaft, and when I went to roll start it, it blew up the gear box, I am waiting for that to be re-built, and I am currently thinking of ways to put a snorkel on. The best part about owning a series 1 is all the wierd looks you get when you are filling it up at the petrol station, not many people have seen a car that you have to fill from under the drivers seat! Happy roving. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 08:41:26 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Allison Ignition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:31:40 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1774 Status: RO > >Greg writes: > >>> > >For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic >ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told >me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I have had an Allison electronic ignition unit on my MGB for about 10 years now. My 1980 MGB had a lucas electronic ignition and I replaced it with the Allison unit. Gas mileage and improved running were not the issues -- a reliable unit was. So, here is my advice: Keep your receipts. I have had to send the Allison unit back three times (with the receipts). They have fixed it each time under the lifetime guarantee. The unit just fails after a couple of years. You will be driving down the road -- loss of power for a split second -- then all ok. Gets worse -- longer and more frequent. Then total failure. There is a power transistor that can't take the heat (what I understand in talking with mechanics). I have had a couple of weeks of warning in all cases. If I remember the initial installation correctly, you replace the points with an electronic sensor, so on a Land Rover you could put back in the old innards while the electronic unit was being rebuilt.... I don't know what I will do next time since (I think) Crane bought out Allison and who knows what their guarantee policy is. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 09:37:21 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 10:21:23 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: RR tires: 235/85R16 conversion Status: RO As the list seems to be into tires at the moment I'd like to post a related query: For specific offroad purposes as well as 'looks' I want to put BFG radial Mud-Terrain T/A 235/85 R 16 tires on a 87'RR. They've become a favorite fad in Europe lately, also on Defenders; maybe people over here have become a bit bored with the ubiquitous Michelins. I know the conversion can be done, I've seen plenty of them at rallies, and the tires fit perfectly on regular RR rims. Of course the body needs to get a 'lift', otherwise the tires will eat parts of the wheel arches and the front spoiler when doing a tight turn. Does anyone have experience with this and tell me, in terms of inches, how much extra clearance I would need _without_ having to resort to expensive conversion kits which include longer shocks, propshafts etc.? I already intend to fit front diesel springs from the Tdi-RR, and rear RR springs with british police specs (parts # NRC4304). Apparently the british police RR's have extra-long & strong rear springs because of the tons of police- and highway patrol related garbage they constantly haul along with them in the back... I *presume* these springs will already give an extra clearance of about 2 inches over the stock RR springs. Question is, should I add extra distances pieces for additional lift, and where would the advisable limit be before risking to rip off a shock or a propshaft (:-[] ?? Like I said, I want to do it on the cheapo using mostly regular Rover stock, none of those several-thousand-dollar monster-truck conversion kits... Any ideas? Rgds, Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 09:53:15 1994 To: "David K. Hudson" Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:25:05 CDT." <199410172025.PAA28757@howdy.wustl.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 07:48:25 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Dave asks, I'm also looking for tires, but for my wife's 89RR. The only place I've found here in St. Louis, MO with the stock 205R16 MX+S244 wants $175 each installed. Other similar size tires are about $110. Any net wisdom/ experience on the subject? Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly different sizes on front and rear? ANSWER Your wifes 89 RR has a viscous coupling for the center differential which senses slipping and locks up accordingly, so don't use two different sized tires front to rear, or side to side for that matter. I just bought a set of four XMS244 Michelins from the TIRE BARN for my wifes 90 RR. They advertise in CAR and DRIVER and I'm sure ROAD and TRACK as well. The price I was quoted over the phone was $106 per tire and they have them in stock. I have a little deal with my local dealer here in Portland, so I use their wholesale account # and get them from TIRE BARN for $94 per plus shipping which is pretty reasonable. Their number is 1 800 428 8355. RGDS Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 90 RANGE ROVER Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 12:39:14 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:33:21 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Status: RO Further to my thoughts on RR tires yesterday, I forgot to suggest buying the tires from the dealer for $125 (not a bad price actually compared with other decent tires) and having a tire shop balance and instal them (if the dealer insists on charging 1/2 hour's labor). John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 12:49:22 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:42:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Tires for 89RR Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I can second the motion for not using different sized tires front and rear -- don't do it! Actually the Michelin XMS244's are excellent tires and probably better than any substitutes you can get at the same size. Every time I have talked to tire people (eg when getting punctures fixed etc) they have been highly impressed with these tires, which have reinforced sidewalls and a better tread pattern than most all-terrain tires. My advice is -- now that they are available at decent prices -- accept no substitutes!! John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 13:44:40 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 11:38:19 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: RR tires: 235/85R16 conversion Status: RO Since I have no experience with this, I will give it an anitial stab!! The 235's should be about 2 inches larger in diameter than the stock 205's, so they'll be about 1 inch more in radius. The only place I would think any problem might occur is on the front when the wheels are turned and the springs compressed. I would try driving diagonally into a bank or other obstacle on full lock so the spring on one side gets to maximum compression (with the stock tires on) and measure how much clearance there is to spare between the tire and fender. That will govern how much larger a radius you can use without modifications. The taller springs will only help on flat surfaces -- when they are fully compressed (rock crawling etc) the clearance will be no better than with stock springs unless you use new bump stops or some other way of limiting upward wheel travel. As you imply, downward wheel travel is limited by the shocks. I will be interested to see what others with more experience in this type of modification have to say. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 13:47:07 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 11:44:36 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: RR tires: 235/85R16 conversion Status: RO Another option to look into is the "Old Man Emu" lift kit made in Australia for Range Rovers, with longer coils and other bits & pieces I believe. I think you can get it in the US through such folks as Downey Off-Road or maybe British Pacific. I think the effective lift is about 2 inches. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 14:05:33 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:59:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Tyres and Wheels Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)writes: >>I don't think there is any particular magic in rim diameter; it >> is just one of several factors to consider. [my original comment, snipped] > There is. A North American 88 will most likely have 15" rims. > Besides using them as door stops and getting 16" rims, the fact to > bear in mind is how large a tire you can mount on that rim. There > are two types of 16" rims over here. The wide and narrow rims. > The 109's had wider rims and will happily take a 750/16 tire. The > narrow rims are recommended to 700/16 though you can put the larger > tire on them (granted I have seen 900/16's on an 88") but it is > not really recommended. Rim diameter does matter. 15" rims suck > for all sorts of reasons from fuel economy, top speed, to how good > a mud tire you can toss onto it. > Well, Dixon, that all jibes with what I said, except that I stand behind my statement that a very workable solution with 15" rims is the 33x9.50x15 BFG Mud-Terrain. I talked to a couple of Land-Rover owners at the All-British Field Leak in Portland who were running these tyres who were very happy with the results. One of them (well, a pair of them), Gord'n and Stephanie Perrott, were running them on a 109 which, of course, had had 16" wheels. And the Perrotts have probably tried just about everything (lord knows they've had enough Land-Rovers to try them on). Remember, the 15" rims are a wider 6", too. >> Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. > You offer a lot of things to consider, however, if you are going to > do a lot of road driving, get radials. Very simple. > Radials seem to be more delicate off-road and > do not seem to withstand some of the punishment from rock, sharp > objects et cetera that can be encountered. I grant that the selection is broader for the 16" wheel; my point is that it is cheaper to fit the BFGs, if you are already stuck with 15" rims, than to purchase 16s and then fit something else. And you won't get embarrassed by their performance. Sure, it's a compromise, but a decent one. Regarding your statement about radials being more delicate: Sure, to a degree, that's true. In the early days of off-road radials (in the U.S.) that was a big point of contention. Now, though, most of the off-road radials are tougher. Even in the old days, some of the Michelins were hella tuff. The ultimate tough expedition tyre is probably the Michelin XZY. Not much of an off-road tread, but very tough and wear for ever (12 ply, as I recall). Even XCLs are, I understand, pretty tough customers, with something like a 10-ply rating. The tyre of choice for the Camel trophy, which certainly puts tyres to the test. I have off-roaded on radials for years, including going in a lot of rocky country, with very satisfactory results. As a matter of fact, I recently noticed that one of my 10.50x15 Norseman Radials had a cronic slow leak. I dismounted it to have a look, thinking that it might have a cut on the inside sidewall. What I found was that the rim had gotten bent, allowing the bead seal to leak. There was apparently no damage to the tyre!! One of my more recently purchased Land-Rovers, a 1973 Series III 88", came to me with a new set of SuperSwamper Three-Stage-Lug (TSL) tyres, in size 29x8.50x15. These are, of course, bias ply and have a very gnarly tread (non-directional) which works very well in the mud. They are surprisingly not all that noisy, certainly no-where-near as noisy as SATs, but the ride is rather, well, notchy. My biggest gripe with them is that they are not nearly tall enough for my taste. I wouldn't mind trying a set of these skins if they made a 32 or 33 x 8.50x15 or, better yet, a 7.50x15 which is that tall. And preferrably radial. I have a set of the wider (5.5") 109-type 16" wheels and do intend to eventually fit them with a set of serious 7.50x16 mud skins, radial, of course. XCLs would be my first choice but, due to cost, will probably not happen. Several of the common Mud-Terrain radials (though the fact is not widely publicised) are available in size 7.50x16, for instance Firestone Steel-Tex ATX 23-degree [frustrating not to be able to use the high-order character set's degree symbol, but my understanding is that if I do, it will not go across the net]. There are several others but I can't remember which ones, off the top of my head. Hey, Dixon, maybe you and I could get a contract to be the east coast and west coast testers for a variety of mud tyres on Land-Rovers... BTW, I did not originally intend to focus on mud tyres as the only choice for Land-Rovers. And, even if you do encounter a fair amount of mud, I wish to make the point that wider, somewhat less aggressive tyres can be a rather more responsible tread-lightly statement. Sorry if I got carried away but, hey, the list has been so quiet. Thanks for the stimulating discussion. And let's hear from all you other tie-ehr goo-roos out there... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 14:05:33 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:59:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Tyres and Wheels Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)writes: >>I don't think there is any particular magic in rim diameter; it >> is just one of several factors to consider. [my original comment, snipped] > There is. A North American 88 will most likely have 15" rims. > Besides using them as door stops and getting 16" rims, the fact to > bear in mind is how large a tire you can mount on that rim. There > are two types of 16" rims over here. The wide and narrow rims. > The 109's had wider rims and will happily take a 750/16 tire. The > narrow rims are recommended to 700/16 though you can put the larger > tire on them (granted I have seen 900/16's on an 88") but it is > not really recommended. Rim diameter does matter. 15" rims suck > for all sorts of reasons from fuel economy, top speed, to how good > a mud tire you can toss onto it. > Well, Dixon, that all jibes with what I said, except that I stand behind my statement that a very workable solution with 15" rims is the 33x9.50x15 BFG Mud-Terrain. I talked to a couple of Land-Rover owners at the All-British Field Leak in Portland who were running these tyres who were very happy with the results. One of them (well, a pair of them), Gord'n and Stephanie Perrott, were running them on a 109 which, of course, had had 16" wheels. And the Perrotts have probably tried just about everything (lord knows they've had enough Land-Rovers to try them on). Remember, the 15" rims are a wider 6", too. >> Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. > You offer a lot of things to consider, however, if you are going to > do a lot of road driving, get radials. Very simple. > Radials seem to be more delicate off-road and > do not seem to withstand some of the punishment from rock, sharp > objects et cetera that can be encountered. I grant that the selection is broader for the 16" wheel; my point is that it is cheaper to fit the BFGs, if you are already stuck with 15" rims, than to purchase 16s and then fit something else. And you won't get embarrassed by their performance. Sure, it's a compromise, but a decent one. Regarding your statement about radials being more delicate: Sure, to a degree, that's true. In the early days of off-road radials (in the U.S.) that was a big point of contention. Now, though, most of the off-road radials are tougher. Even in the old days, some of the Michelins were hella tuff. The ultimate tough expedition tyre is probably the Michelin XZY. Not much of an off-road tread, but very tough and wear for ever (12 ply, as I recall). Even XCLs are, I understand, pretty tough customers, with something like a 10-ply rating. The tyre of choice for the Camel trophy, which certainly puts tyres to the test. I have off-roaded on radials for years, including going in a lot of rocky country, with very satisfactory results. As a matter of fact, I recently noticed that one of my 10.50x15 Norseman Radials had a cronic slow leak. I dismounted it to have a look, thinking that it might have a cut on the inside sidewall. What I found was that the rim had gotten bent, allowing the bead seal to leak. There was apparently no damage to the tyre!! One of my more recently purchased Land-Rovers, a 1973 Series III 88", came to me with a new set of SuperSwamper Three-Stage-Lug (TSL) tyres, in size 29x8.50x15. These are, of course, bias ply and have a very gnarly tread (non-directional) which works very well in the mud. They are surprisingly not all that noisy, certainly no-where-near as noisy as SATs, but the ride is rather, well, notchy. My biggest gripe with them is that they are not nearly tall enough for my taste. I wouldn't mind trying a set of these skins if they made a 32 or 33 x 8.50x15 or, better yet, a 7.50x15 which is that tall. And preferrably radial. I have a set of the wider (5.5") 109-type 16" wheels and do intend to eventually fit them with a set of serious 7.50x16 mud skins, radial, of course. XCLs would be my first choice but, due to cost, will probably not happen. Several of the common Mud-Terrain radials (though the fact is not widely publicised) are available in size 7.50x16, for instance Firestone Steel-Tex ATX 23-degree [frustrating not to be able to use the high-order character set's degree symbol, but my understanding is that if I do, it will not go across the net]. There are several others but I can't remember which ones, off the top of my head. Hey, Dixon, maybe you and I could get a contract to be the east coast and west coast testers for a variety of mud tyres on Land-Rovers... BTW, I did not originally intend to focus on mud tyres as the only choice for Land-Rovers. And, even if you do encounter a fair amount of mud, I wish to make the point that wider, somewhat less aggressive tyres can be a rather more responsible tread-lightly statement. Sorry if I got carried away but, hey, the list has been so quiet. Thanks for the stimulating discussion. And let's hear from all you other tie-ehr goo-roos out there... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 15:10:30 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 16:04:24 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: Looking for a 109 Status: RO Hi, I'm new to the list and about to embark(hopefully) on a major Rover project. I'm planning on doing a full ground up restoration with new chassis, drivetrain, etc. What I need at this point is a rough but fairly complete car to use as a starting point. Specifically, I'm looking for a 1970 or earlier Series II or IIA 109 hardtop. I need a good body, but the chassis and engine can be junk as far as I'm concerned. I realize that it would probably be easier in the long run to start with something more solid, but this is a long term project. If anyone happens to have or know of a Rover fitting this description, please let me know. Thanks. BCW From ccray Tue Oct 18 15:18:11 1994 Subject: questions about being shafted... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:18:11 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2443 Status: RO Lulu is sick again. With all the talk on the network about broken springs and frozen spring shakle bushings, I thought I was in for a spring job this fall: ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large bumps under power... But it got worse with interesting symptoms: ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and I wasn't moving anywhere... ...It kept getting worse and worse. ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car and driver on dry pavement)... So now I think I have a broken rear axle shaft. The stories I had heard in the past about broken rear axle shafts made me think you were stopped cold with a racing engine and no forward movement. I visualize this one as snapped at a angle -- a lot of time it will transfer light load. But it slips under heavy load. So, question to the netters (having never done a broken rear axle shaft) is the repair job just: 1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off the wheels). 2. pulling out the axle half shaft. 3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken piece. 4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. 5. installation is the reverse of above. Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts vendors advise. Any other information would be appreciated. The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for that carrier) interchange-able between the front and rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in the gearing. Hoping for some good advice so I can put my order in for parts... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 15:15:26 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: LROI ?????? To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 146 Status: RO Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? Morgan Hannaford Berkeley, CA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 15:26:35 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: questions about being shafted... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:18:12 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2442 Status: RO Lulu is sick again. With all the talk on the network about broken springs and frozen spring shakle bushings, I thought I was in for a spring job this fall: ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large bumps under power... But it got worse with interesting symptoms: ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and I wasn't moving anywhere... ...It kept getting worse and worse. ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car and driver on dry pavement)... So now I think I have a broken rear axle shaft. The stories I had heard in the past about broken rear axle shafts made me think you were stopped cold with a racing engine and no forward movement. I visualize this one as snapped at a angle -- a lot of time it will transfer light load. But it slips under heavy load. So, question to the netters (having never done a broken rear axle shaft) is the repair job just: 1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off the wheels). 2. pulling out the axle half shaft. 3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken piece. 4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. 5. installation is the reverse of above. Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts vendors advise. Any other information would be appreciated. The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for that carrier) interchange-able between the front and rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in the gearing. Hoping for some good advice so I can put my order in for parts... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 17:08:58 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: LROI ?????? To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU (Morgan Hannaford) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 13:42:12 PDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410182007.NAA25408@koala.Berkeley.EDU>; from "Morgan Hannaford" at Oct 18, 94 1:07 pm Status: RO Not yet...... russ > > > > Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue > of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? > > Morgan Hannaford > Berkeley, CA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 18:10:42 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:52:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Wanted To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Wanted: One Rover, II IIa III, 88 or 109, hardtop or pickup, preferably diesel, running not important as long as is the engine is not seized, no major frame rust, interior required but condition is not important. Want to get in cheap (what am I saying, this thing is a british collectible) $500-$750 or trade small sailboat. Tampa Bay area or beyond. Will come pick up within reason. Any info, suggestions, offers, etc. Call me or E-me (813)979-4732 swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Thanks in advance for anything...I just went to the All-british Show Tampa this weekend and now i've got it in my blood, gotta have a rover, there was only ONE there, and it was in about the condition that I just described (want). Steve Swiger From twakeman@apple.com Tue Oct 18 19:12:40 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 17:13:34 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Status: RO Ray, Sounds to me like you probably have 2 unrelated problems. 1. The noises. COuld be shackles, could be a crack in the frame. Do a visual inspection. Look for disentigrated bushings at the shackles. 2. Slipping under power but not under light load. This sure sounds like clutch slipping to me. If you are lucky, your clutch hydrolics are not returning properly and you can adjust the linkage. Most likely you are dealing with a worn or oily clutch... happy transmission pulling. When an axle breaks it breaks. If it had broken, any driving you would have done on it would have probably destroyed teeth on the ring & pinion gears. The break sounds like a big thunk and the car can seem to jerk. If you are in two wheel drive its like you just shifted into neutral. At that time you need to stop the car ASAP and do not move it untill the rear drive shaft and both axles are off the car. This prevents the diff from turning. If the break is at the hub end your diff is probably fine. If its at the diff end it probably tried to bite down on a broken part of the shaft and needs ring & pionion replaced. Always replace both axles. The breakage is usually caused by crystalization of the metal. If one side is crystalized the other side is probably crystalized too. I broke one axle towing a small shed up a hill. Replaced it and broke the other a couple of months later turning a corner on pavement. Lost the diff that time too. I replaced them with used axles out of a parts car I had. Broke another axle and diff on pavement turning a corner about a year later. Both times the diff went it was the inside end of the axle that broke. Moral to the story: Axles crystalize over time. Replace them both and replace them with new parts. If you are going on a major off road expidition to the middle of nowhere and have a new set of axles for spare, put them in before you go. You can put the old ones in afterwards if you wish & save the new ones. Its better not to brake an axle then be in the middle of nowhere hoping it was the outside of the axle that broke as you are pulling them out. Get a salsbury rear end & you will never break axles. When you break an axles you will need to pull both axles and the diff to make sure all the chips are out of the housing. You do not want chips bouncing around in the housing eventually coming to rest betweem the ring & pinion gears. This is a good time to disassemble the axle breather and clean it up too. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 20:29:07 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 21:22:44 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO The Good News I won't give a description of the event - others have done that very well already. I would like to say that it was the most fun I have had in a long time and am certainly planning to attend next year. Meeting in person many of the people I have talked to on the net was a highlight. I would especially like to thank Sandy Grice for all the time and energy he put into making the event memorable. Sandy was not pleased with the Sunday lunch and dinner but I have to admit it was far better than what I was likely to cook up on the camp stove. Other reports to the contrary, Sandy's printed directions to the Sunday Lunch raised obfustication to an art form (its either that or admit that I am "geographically challenged" which I'm certainly not prepared to do). His claim that the instructions were "spot on" could only have been made by a former cost estimator for Lucas Aerospace. The Bad News On the last day of the event the Rover's (72 S III 88) engine developed a serious loss of power and started making new noises. With a lot of freely given and greatly appreciated help from Bruce McEnaney (owner of British Rovers in Vermont who attended the event in a Rover Sedan) and Bill Maloney, it was determined that the Rover would probabally make it the 500 miles home on it's own power albeit slower than normal. Burned valves were suspected in # 1 and 2 cylinders. As it turned out the Rover sustained it's 22 year streak of always making it home under it's own power, although, I must admit fully loaded tractor trailers blew my doors off on the uphills. After arriving at home and pulling the head I discovered that the valves were in acceptable shape. The problem was that the head gasket was burned through (1 inch section was entirely missing) at the narrowest point between #1 and 2 cylinders allowing the gasses to go back and forth freely between the cylinders. I will send the head to British Rovers for repair and a valve job. Hopefully the Rover will be back on the road in two or three weeks. Keith Steele 75126.1123@compuserve.com 72' Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 23:19:20 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 21:14:00 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: costales@icsi.berkeley.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Series III 88" for sale Status: RO > >For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover snip > Sound proof foam under hood an floor mats (runs quieter). What did you use for this? I would love to do something similar. > Padded tire on hood with seat belts for passanger. And where did you get this!!???!! This I would *love* to have! Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 00:05:44 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LROI ?????? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 23:27:39 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Morgan Hannaford writes: > Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue > of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? Two weeks ago on the right coast. Phone or send a nasty note to LRO. Other I know who have done this managed to get another month added to their subscription. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 00:07:06 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Wanted From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 23:29:42 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Steven Swiger (LIS)" writes: > One Rover, II IIa III, 88 or 109, hardtop or pickup, preferably diesel, > running not important as long as > is the engine is not seized, no major frame rust, interior required but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||||||||||||| > condition is not important. Want to get in cheap (what am I saying, this > thing is a british collectible) $500-$750 or trade small sailboat. Tampa ^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||| Best of luck. A good solid frame under a Land Rover is worth at least that, let alone the rest of the vehicle. You will also find that diesels are rather hard to find over here. They were never that popular. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Oct 19 00:32:05 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:50:17 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ray Harder Writes.... > > Lulu is sick again. > Snip...... > So now I think I have a broken rear axle shaft. Snip...... > So, question to the netters (having never done a broken > rear axle shaft) is the repair job just: > 1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates > the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off > the wheels). > 2. pulling out the axle half shaft. > 3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken > piece. > 4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. > 5. installation is the reverse of above. > That's about it, Ray... To be a little more technical, the "gizmo" in #1 is called a "drive flange" and the "pumpkin" in #3 is a differential (or diff for short). If you haven't done it yet, pull the axel half-shafts and find out if one *is* broken. > Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get > to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a > magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the > other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts > vendors advise. Any other information would be > appreciated. > Everybody has a favourite method.. What has worked for me is to pull out both axel half-shafts. Then I use a piece of steel rod about 3/8" in diameter to drive the broken bit out of the diff. You insert the rod in the side where the good axel shaft was and with the aid of a good flashlight, work the end of the rod into the diff where the axel was and then alongside the center spindle shaft. You should be able to make contact with the broken part of the other shaft. Give the rod a few good whacks and hopefully the broken stuff pops out. Then you can fish out the bits with a magnet. To be sure, you should open up the diff and inspect the works inside for damage and small bits of metal, but if your out in the middle of east no-where when you snap an axel you may be interested in getting the beastie mobile first. Now, if you can't pop out the broken part, then you have no choice but to open up the diff. > The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear > damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that > perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for > that carrier) interchange-able between the front and > rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting > around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in > the gearing. > I believe the front and rear diffs are interchangeable, assuming the axel gear ratios are the same. As to parts to get, you *should* replace both axel shafts at the same time. You are also going to need new gaskets for the drive flanges and a gasket for the differential. Good luck with it Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 04:50:23 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: please send items for the list to 'lro@team.net' Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 05:47:25 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Stars and Land Rovers Message-ID: <940927123507_70004.4011_FHT78-2@CompuServe.COM> Ian: You might want to consider putting Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith each with 1/2 a Range Rover... they just split up again. No, I really don't follow these things, but when there is the welfare of a Range Rover at stake... Great list Cheers, R. P. Reid ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 05:35:02 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: please send stuff for the list to 'lro@team.net' Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 06:32:48 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:07:29 GMT-0930 Subject: Fuel economy and engine oil Message-Id: <4EF6167102@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au> I've been reading with interest the economy that some of you are getting out of your V8 Discovery's Out of my 3.5 V8i 5 speed, I get 18.5-19 m.p.g. around town, and the same on a trip fully laden towing an off-road trailer. On a country trip without a trailer, I get between 23-27 m.p.g. I don't know what you do to get the mileage that you do! I use 92 octane unleaded. On the issue of oils I use Castrol RX-Super. I think its 15W40. Stay away from oils with detergents in them, as according to both Castrol and the Land Rover dealer, they sludge up the V8. I change the engine oil every 5,000 kilometres. Forget the breakdown of viscosity, that's almost irrelavent with todays oils. You need to get the corrosive by-products of combustion out e.g. sulphurs etc. regards Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! ------- End of Forwarded Message BTW: On my 3.5L 4spd w/OD, I've been getting about 4m/l or something like 18mi/imp.gal. (15mi/u.s.gal) (slightly better on the road, slightly worse about town/mixed driving) -B Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 05:35:48 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: Discovery Steering box Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 06:33:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message From: "Jurgen Klus" Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:14:55 GMT-0930 Message-Id: <50157E20DB@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au> Our steering box leaked early in the cars life. It was replaced with a new improved one under warranty. No more leaks. Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 06:21:24 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:14:01 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: LRO Late Again To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> Morgan asks: >> Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? >> Russ replies: >> Not yet...... russ >> I'm in NJ and I haven't received my October issue yet either. I received November's LRW 2 1/2 weeks ago, however. I'll be calling LRO the first week in November if I still haven't received it. It won't be the first time. Bill Wayne, NJ USA 88 IIA & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 06:29:10 1994 Date: 19 Oct 94 07:22:51 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: B Wing writes : wanted 109 Status: RO Braham C Wing writes >Looking for a 1970 or earlier Series II 109 hardtop.... good body....chassis and body can be junk..... I have several 109's that have good bodies, chassis, and engine. All are in need of restoration work, but at least you are starting with something solid. I guess it really depends what type of budget you have to start with. We can get you a restorable land rover to your specs VERY reasonably here. Send me an Email with your specs and budget if your interested. Cheers Leslie From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 07:04:58 1994 Date: 19 Oct 94 07:58:05 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Hey Pierce.... also trailers and winches Status: RO ------------------------------------------------- FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 19-Oct-94 10:53 Subject: mis-addressed mail From: William Caloccia > INTERNET:caloccia@sw.stratus.com To: Leslie Stutsman 100042,254 ------------------------------------------------- From: William Caloccia Hi Leslie, I as just going through the mail pile and found this messages, it was addressed to lro-request instead of lro@team.net or whatever. (>>>>Sometimes I really am a dumb****. Oh well....) << This might explain why it wasn't received as expected... Cheers, -Bill ------- Forwarded Message Hi Pierce Just read through a million digests - having fallen a bit behind. Yes I tried to locate your dad as well. I think we just kept missing each other. Anyway his vehicle was beautiful. I dont think it really matters that it is not all original. And yes I think we all know who you where talking about.... We didn't have much time in the states, just 2 days. But the canadian guys were great. I know it would not have been anywhere as much fun if it hadn't been for those guys. Loved the video of the b'day bash. We are a bit lacking in the 4WDing out here, unless you own a farm. Just went to Wales last weekend to do some 4wd ing. There is a pub that is out on a beach only accessable by 4wd. Lots of beaut Land rovers to look at! But that is the extent of our 4wding. Trailers - still have not seen a one for less than 250/300 pounds. Trailers are a pretty desired item and that keeps the price up I guess. I will be going to some auctions though, so maybe I will find one cheap there. Are you still interested?(Just located some near perfect ones, including some "tippers" for $300) BTW I have 3 winches that I am taking offers on: a hydraulic winch (hello DIXON..........) and another rated at 9000 pounds and includes the bumper attachments. The 3rd is a HUGE fairey PTO driven winch. Don't know what it is rated, gotta give Fairy a call, but I would say 12,000 plus. It came off a water board truck and it was used to haul trees out of rivers, etc. It includes the bumper mounting plate. Are you or anyone else interested? Email me an offer. (highest offer takes it of course) Did you go to the Virginia rally? Wish I could have gone.... ... Cheers Leslie ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 06:08:22 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 00:05:40 +1200 From: DAVID L DEAN Subject: Series I King Pins To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO Series I Enthusiasts, I need to replace the kingpins on my 1956 SI LWB flatdeck. The local parts merchant in Christchurch (NZ) offered original (NZ$100), SII/III (NZ$120) or roller bearing units (NZ$150) from a RR? He said that if I put in the roller bearing units I would probably need to put in a steering damper to keep from losing knuckles offroad (not exactly a padded steering wheel). Any thoughts? FYI: NZ$1 = US$0.62 Also, I still contend that you could finance a trip to NZ with the savings on an old LR. I can get some current prices if anyone is interested.... Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 07:08:35 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:58:59 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Pumpkin Time For Lulu To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray relates the symptoms: >> ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large bumps under power... But it got worse with interesting symptoms: ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and I wasn't moving anywhere... ...It kept getting worse and worse. ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car and driver on dry pavement)... The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. >> If an axle shaft was broken you would have no drive in 2WD and little/no noise. Either the spider gears in your diff have worn to the point that they are jumping/skipping teeth in engagement with the pinion or crown gears or the locknut carrier has worked it's way loose (doing the same sort of damage). Different spider gears come into play when going around corners, so one side is worse than the other. As for "popping like a rachet" under load, the torque is transmitted to the weaker/damaged side- the side that will spin first. I'm afraid there's nothing for it but to replace the diff (all of the gears will probably be damaged at this point). I think the axles will come out easily. Removing the diff is not hard but it is heavy (at 60-70lbs, more than half my weight- and I've done it). Examine your axles for signs of twisting or wear in the splines. If not, they may be OK. >> >From that perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for that carrier) interchange-able between the front and rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in the gearing. >> Great! The diff in your spare front axle will probably be fine if it isn't filled with water. The ratio should be the same so there should be no problems. Order a diff gasket, a pair of hub gaskets, and a pair of the rubber/felt seals (you may want to replace the pinion seal and gasket at the same time while you have it out. Polish the surface on the flange that the seal rides against. It will probably be dirty/pitted/slightly scored). If you want to finish it this weekend and do not have the parts and if the rubber/felt seals are good and you are patient and the old gaskets come off in one piece, you can buy a roll of gasket material and cut them yourself (talk about run-on sentences!). While you're at it, remove the wheel hubs and once you have the diff and axles out, spray gunk in the rear axle case. Scrub it well and flush thouroughly with a hose. Then do it again until all of the filings have gone. You're going to find plenty. >> Good Luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 09:38:11 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:31:24 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU, lro@team.net Subject: Re: LROI ?????? Status: RO I've not seen it here in The City. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From maloney@wings.attmail.com Wed Oct 19 10:17:43 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:13:25 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Re: Pumpkin Time For Lulu To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO (Ray, I would have given you a direct response also the first time around but my mail header does not always give me a useable return address) >> But this baloney sounds interesting... I guess I (being naive) thought diffs only wore out slowly -- excess noise and slop. I didn't think they actually failed with slipping gears and broken teeth. >> You're right, they rarely do. >> When I got Lulu about 15k miles ago, the rear-diff was *low* on ep90, so I just topped it off and kept going. >> Oh, Oh... Sounds like the main box in my IIA. I drained about a cup of black oil(?) from it after I got it before I put it on the road. It went fine for about a year until BANG!!! went the layshaft, and GRIND, CHIP CHIP CHIP went 2nd and 3rd as I tried to figure out what was going on (I didn't know any better at the time). >> Me being a half-reared machanic, answer this: I ran out of time and didn't really want to do it, so I had a garage replace the pinon seal on this rear axle (about 2 months and 4k miles ago). I know there is a lock nut involved with that process. Could mis-adjustment of that job have caused rear-differential failure? >> If the lock nut has come undone, the pinion can shift in and out of the diff giving widely varying geartooth clearances. Unbolting your propshaft at the diff flange will confirm this. I'm not sure if this alone can change the clearance enough to jump gearteeth or to damage other items. >> OK, I get the joy of lugging this thing back from storage. >> I'd rather risk a hernia than lay out the $$$ for a new or used diff. But them again I'm economically challenged. >> My question on interchanging the pumpkin from the front to the rear was not related to gear ratios, but 1: will it bolt up >> Yup >> 2: are things turning in the right direction (front one being attached backwards compared to the rear). >> Yup (it really doesn't matter) >> 3: if thing *were* turning one direction will I now be turning things in a different direction with all kinds of wear and mating problems (remember, I am trying to be a mechanic, I am *not* one)... >> You've touched on an interesting point. Now that a front diff is in the back, the back surfaces of the gear teeth that are rarely used (and probably have very little wear - they only bear a load in reverse or when engine braking downhill in 4WD) will come into play. It may seem a tad noisy at first but should bed in quickly. Changing the diff oil a few hundred miles after installation should clear the majority of any bed-in filings from the diff (it's cheap insurance). More Baloney with Provalone from Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 10:49:32 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:51:13 +0100 From: Peter van der Landen Subject: Discovery steering box etc. To: lro@team.NET X-Envelope-To: lro@team.NET Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Popmail-Charset: English Status: RO The same thing happened to me. My may '92 Discovery TDI started leaking from the steering box after a few months. The garage fixed the seals. After a few months it leaked again, they fixed the seals again (under warranty). Then, after the warranty had expired and it started leaking again they replaced the steering box. They wanted me to pay for the labor but I was able to convince them that this would be a bit unreasonable. Since then I've had no problems with leaking. In case you are interested, I've had the following repairs up until now: - - Leaking steering box (fixed under warranty). - - A leak in the hydraulic system of the clutch. (this one got me stranded, fixed under warranty). - - Malfunctioning doorlock. (fixed) Not too bad, I guess... Peter van der Landen - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Centre for Computers and Law, L7-60, Erasmus University, Rotterdam, Holland Tel 31-10-4082187 (home 2331650) Fax 31-10-4532920 (home 2331215) - -------------------- E-mail Landen@cir.frg.eur.nl --------------------------- Peter van der Landen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Centre for Computers and Law, L7-60, Erasmus University, Rotterdam, Holland Tel 31-10-4082187 (home 2331650) Fax 31-10-4082920 (home 2331215) -------------------- E-mail Landen@cir.frg.eur.nl --------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 11:07:09 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 09:03:26 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: 75126.1123@compuserve.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO In message <941019012243_75126.1123_FHD112-5@CompuServe.COM> Keith Steele writes: > acceptable shape. The problem was that the head gasket was burned through (1 > inch section was entirely missing) at the narrowest point between #1 and 2 > cylinders allowing the gasses to go back and forth freely between the > cylinders. > I will send the head to British Rovers for repair and a valve job. Hopefully > the Rover will be back on the road in two or three weeks. > > Keith Steele > 75126.1123@compuserve.com > 72' Series III 88 since new Keith, I assume you will be checking both the head and block for warpage. Also look at the metal at the edge of head stud, & bolt holes. If it has pulled up at all, you will not get a proper gasket seal. If you have this problem (common from over torquing), you can make a short counter sink at the edge of the hole. Also, clean off the surfaces and inspect for possible cracks. Something was not right to have caused a head gasket to fail. After you get on the road, when you retorque the head, be sure to losen the head bolt slightly before retorquing it. Otherwise you will get a false reading. Good luck & glad your LR got you home. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From CXKS46A@prodigy.com Wed Oct 19 11:13:04 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 12:11:55 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Bad breaks Status: RO Ray...when an axle goes, you stop. I've broken two, curiously always around town and never out low gear rock crawling, loaded to the gunwales with camping stuff. To "spread the load", I almost always use 4WD on any long uphill, gravel road. Several thoughts on axles. If one breaks, replace the other as well. it is not "crystalization" as TeriAnn would say, rather simple stress/metal fatigue. If refitting an axle, scratch a longitudinal line down the length of the axle with a file. If you pull the axle at any time in the future and find a twisted line, you know it's been stressed. Arrange for the axle to break at a convenient place: the hub flange. On a lathe, mill a groove just smaller than the teeth on the diff end (where mine always break). That way, you can snatch out the broken shaft with pliers and be going again in ten minutes. If it does break amd you don't want to do an immediate, on-the-spot rebuild, pull both half-shafts and drop the rear prop shaft. Bang it into 4WD (now front wheel drive) and head home. You have to isolate the rear diff to prevent swarf damage. Typically, when the shaft breaks (unless you are very, *very* lucky) the metal around the break expands. Usually, you have to disassemble the diff as you can't get a straight shot at it with the spider gears in the way. One time though, I was able to drill a hole in the broken stub and use the slide hammer to drift the little bugger out. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Wed Oct 19 11:36:53 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:38:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Ray Harder writes: >Lulu is sick again. > ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large > bumps under power... >But it got worse with interesting symptoms: > ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop > it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and > I wasn't moving anywhere... > ...It kept getting worse and worse. > ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car > and driver on dry pavement)... >is the repair job just: >1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates > the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off > the wheels). >2. pulling out the axle half shaft. >3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken > piece. >4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. >5. installation is the reverse of above. > >Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get >to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a >magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the >other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts >vendors advise. Any other information would be >appreciated. > >The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear >damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that >perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for >that carrier) interchange-able between the front and >rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting >around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in >the gearing. It could be lots of things but sounds to me like the trouble is in the diff and don't delay in repairing it; it will get a lot more expensive. Should take it apart in any case to see what it really is and let us all know. I recently had a diff fail due to shearing off of all the crown wheel bolts! Yours could be doing that and you could stop it before they all go. [In my case I was rather lucky: Although one bit blew through the case and so will have to be welded, remarkably, the gears are all undamaged.] Sounds more likely, though that it is in one or more of the gears... Yes, replace both axle shafts (even if the trouble is in the diff, most likely they've been under undue strain and they're cheap to replace) and make very sure you only get the genuine ones. The reason this is so important, I found out the hard way, is that non-genuine ones have the nasty habit of fraying when they break and, in so doing, cause the carrier bearings to freeze up and then spin in their races. As a result of this lesson, I have an otherwise dandy diff which needs to be rebuilt one of these days (no rush, as I have a supply of spare diffs). And, yes, it is necessary to remove the differential "pumkin." It's no big deal, really. Now, if you had a Salisbury axle, removing the diff is somewhat of a big deal. Speaking of which, if the worst is the case (lunched diff) you could do worse than, as TerriAnn suggests, fitting a Salisbury axle. They're damned expensive in the U.S. but I have seen them advertised very cheaply in LRO magazine, PRB Services comes particularly to mind but I believe there are several cheap suppliers. Of course, if you have a spare diff (in your spare front axle) that would be the cheapest solution for now. And, indeed, even if your trouble is not anything broken in the diff, replace it with that good spare (Yes the front and rear --assuming both are Rover-type axles--interchange.), as the "slop" will eventually lead to breakage. If that sloppy diff is not broken, get it out while rebuilding it will be cheaper, with just new bearings, seals, and "set-up" labor, rather than a bunch of broken (expensive) gears. Keep us posted on your trouble-shooting. Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 13:00:27 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:42:58 EDT From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) To: lro@team.net Subject: Flashing Rover Update Cc: lisat@american.megatrends.com Status: RO Gentle Readers: Just in case any of you were losing sleep ;^) , my Disco now flashes its parking lights appropriately. A new relay did the trick. This thread got me thinking a little, though. Perhaps there's an opportunity for those of you who own real (old) Land Rovers to help out those of us just starting out. There are lots of little, semi-clever things that a Discovery does to make things more convenient for its owner. We know how these features work as long as the vehicle's under warranty. What we don't know is how they'll work the day after the warranty expires. Thus your opportunity. Here are several of these features, and a description of how they work now. Other Disco owners should feel free to chime in. (In addition, if you have any clues as to *why* the Disco does some of these things, please enlighten us.) Parking Lights and Alarm, during warranty: When the alarm is armed (via locking the driver's door or using the remote), the parking lights flash three times. When the alarm is disarmed, the lights flash once. Parking Lights and Alarm, after warranty: ??? Dome Light, during warranty: The interior lights do not immediately extinguish once all doors are closed. Instead, they remain lit until the ignition is started, or until a small amount of time has elapsed. Furthermore, they are not turned off "all at once"; rather, they are gradually dimmed. Dome Light, after warranty: ??? Turn Signal and Trailer, during warranty: In addition to the standard turn signal indicator on the dash, there's an auxiliary indicator for a towed trailer's turn signals. When no trailer is attached, this auxiliary indicator flashes exactly one time when you activate the turn signal. If a trailer is attached, the auxiliary indicator continues to flash in sync with the standard indicator. Turn Signal and Trailer, after warranty: ??? Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, during warranty: If you activate the turn signal and one of the turn signal lamps has burned out (or has a poor connection), the turn signal indicator flashes at twice its normal rate. Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, after warranty: ??? Door Locks and Alarm, during warranty: If you attempt to arm the alarm and one of the doors is still ajar, the alarm delays its arming for 30 seconds. If the door remains ajar, the alarm arms for all other doors. (And, incidently, does not flash the parking lights.) Here's the fun part: If, however, you close the offending door before 30 seconds pass, the alarm (1) immediately unlocks *all* doors, (2) waits 30 more seconds, (3) locks all doors, and (4) arms the alarm as normal. (This can easily convince you of the existance of poltergeists; I speak from experience here.) Door Locks and Alarm, after warranty: ??? Well, that's probably enough frivolous bandwidth for now. I'm sure other Disco owners can add to the list. Waiting expectantly for any followups.... _____________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom (404-514-3522) email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 14:39:42 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:14:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Disco Post Warrranty Post Mortem To: LRO@stratus.com, sat@eng.tridom.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Stephen asks: >> Perhaps there's an opportunity for those of you who own real (old) Land Rovers to help out those of us just starting out. There are lots of little, semi-clever things that a Discovery does to make things more convenient for its owner. We know how these features work as long as the vehicle's under warranty. What we don't know is how they'll work the day after the warranty expires. Parking Lights and Alarm, during warranty: When the alarm is armed (via locking the driver's door or using the remote), the parking lights flash three times. When the alarm is disarmed, the lights flash once. Parking Lights and Alarm, after warranty: >> Alarm will short out = No Problem >> Dome Light, during warranty: The interior lights do not immediately extinguish once all doors are closed. Instead, they remain lit until the ignition is started, or until a small amount of time has elapsed. Furthermore, they are not turned off "all at once"; rather, they are gradually dimmed. Dome Light, after warranty: >> Dome light will burn out = No Problem >> Turn Signal and Trailer, during warranty: In addition to the standard turn signal indicator on the dash, there's an auxiliary indicator for a towed trailer's turn signals. When no trailer is attached, this auxiliary indicator flashes exactly one time when you activate the turn signal. If a trailer is attached, the auxiliary indicator continues to flash in sync with the standard indicator. Turn Signal and Trailer, after warranty: >> Axle will separate from trailer during a downhill run, rolling both Disco & trailer = No more Problem >> Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, during warranty: If you activate the turn signal and one of the turn signal lamps has burned out (or has a poor connection), the turn signal indicator flashes at twice its normal rate. Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, after warranty: >> Dead Lamp will burn out, backup lights will light when you use the directionals, and confused semi driver will rear end you = No more Problem >> Door Locks and Alarm, during warranty: If you attempt to arm the alarm and one of the doors is still ajar, the alarm delays its arming for 30 seconds. If the door remains ajar, the alarm arms for all other doors. (And, incidently, does not flash the parking lights.) Here's the fun part: If, however, you close the offending door before 30 seconds pass, the alarm (1) immediately unlocks *all* doors, (2) waits 30 more seconds, (3) locks all doors, and (4) arms the alarm as normal. (This can easily convince you of the existance of poltergeists; I speak from experience here.) Door Locks and Alarm, after warranty: >> Car thief with tow truck will set off alarm. Annoyed neighbors will assist car thief with vehicle removal = No more Problem A lotta Baloney on Wry from maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 14:30:04 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:17:13 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@team.net Subject: Final Assy Status: RO People, I have several questions for the collective wisdom on the net: In the final stages of assy. for my 69 engine and the new cam chainwheel does not have the same P markings as the original. Did a stare and compare and think I have it correctly positioned. When I trial fitted the wheel for the cam end-float it is so tight that I could not get it to butt up against the cam shaft thrust plate. The way it is now there is .003 mm out on the end-float spec. Can the thrust plate be shimmed or can a thicker thrust plate be had or is the wheel not pressed on enough. It is really hard to tell. What to do gang? Or can I run safely with the chainwheel cam shaft end-float that far off? Any help would be nice. This thing is getting close and it has been too long without a running Rover. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What end-float measurement? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 15:40:54 1994 From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Final Assy To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com (ROY CALDWELL) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410191917.AA15035@mtnoca.helena_noc> from "ROY CALDWELL" at Oct 19, 94 01:17:13 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 949 Status: RO > > People, > > In the final stages of assy. for my 69 engine and the > new cam chainwheel does not have the same P markings > as the original. Did a stare and compare and think I > have it correctly positioned. When I trial fitted the > wheel for the cam end-float it is so tight that I could > not get it to butt up against the cam shaft thrust plate. > The way it is now there is .003 mm out on the end-float spec. > Can the thrust plate be shimmed or can a thicker thrust > plate be had or is the wheel not pressed on enough. It > is really hard to tell. What to do gang? Or can I run > safely with the chainwheel cam shaft end-float that far off? > > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What end-float measurement? > (can't resist) Ahem... I'd suggest that being all of .003 mm out of spec is not only acceptable, but not measurable. Is there perhaps a decimal point out of place??? A unit out of wack??? Something amiss??? Walt Swain From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:14:43 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:49:00 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Allison Ignition To: maloney Cc: LRO@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re broken axle. I had some problems with broken axles some 15 years ago and I wrote to Land Rover to complain about the crystalization I noticed in the shafts. I received the following reply. Our axles are designed to fail! Would you want to replace a $75 axle or a $750 diff. The crystalization is a heat treated area meant to fail under overstress conditions and is in fact the weak link in the drive train. The area was designed to let go in such a manner that there would be a clean break and there would be a piece of shaft left that could be removed easily from the carrier assembly. The pieces in my experience came away just as Land Rover said and in fact I didn't replace them with real shafts but instead had my machinest friend put new roll stock between the splines and used that for axles. Of course I had to be careful because now I didn't have a weak link any longer. There are at least 5 of my old Rovers still driving on these axles. My machinest friend told me that if he had to make the splines there was no way he could under price a new axle because of the set up time to cut the splines. However if I took the splines in it was child's play to weld in a new round shaft. While on the subject, Land Rover told me they didn't have many broken shafts till someone invented the free wheeling hub. People often forgot they were not locked in and shifted into four wheel drive. This put tremendous stress on only the back drive system and lets the front system spin freely without load. In Canada where our side streets are often ice covered in winter and the main streets are dry, you can get up quite a spin on the back wheels even in two wheel drive only to hit the dry surface and suddenly no drive. I had this happen twice before I got smart and left the vehicle in hub locked position all winter. No more broken shafts. For anyone on a tight budget, don't throw away the splines, you can probably save at least 50% by just getting some rolled shaft material and welding it in place of the broken shaft. Some one asked about the spray foam to dampen noise in the rover. I used a heavy rubber pad available from auto supply houses made for the purpose. They have sticky stuff on one side and the other side can get wet etc. without problems. One of our fellows used the spray foam you get in tins for insulation, but I wouldn't recommend it because it crumbles and makes a mess. I don't think I would want a fire with that stuff in, you probably wouldn't live. I think the tin foil covered stuff you can get from the autowreckers is the best stuff. It is usually used under the hood to dampen noise. Most wreckers will give it to you free since at least in Canada, you have to remove this "fluff" before a steel mill will take the car as meltable scrap. I have received both carpet ($5 for all I could carry) and this insulation just by asking. I think I mentioned the hatch back Pinto has just a wonderful carpet for the Land Rover. The black is like factory and it fills the back of an 88 like it was made for it. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:14:23 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:07:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: LRO@stratus.com, sat@eng.tridom.com, maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Disco Post Warrranty Post Mortem In-Reply-To: Status: RO Here we go---A lotta Baloney on Wry from maloney >Parking Lights and Alarm, after warranty: >Alarm will short out = No Problem What is an alarm?????? >Dome Light, after warranty: >Dome light will burn out = No Problem What is this thing you call a "Dome Light"????? >Turn Signal and Trailer, after warranty: >Axle will separate from trailer during a downhill run, rolling both Disco & >trailer = No more Problem I suppose he has those fancy new fangled self canceling turn signals too!!! >Door Locks and Alarm, after warranty: >Car thief with tow truck will set off alarm. Annoyed neighbors will assist >car thief with vehicle removal = No more Problem No self respecting car thief would look at my vehicle=NO PROBLEM AT ALL Cheers Jon # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\ "YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_ It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium ++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | | = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_|| jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/ /~~~~~~//~~~~~~~/ @ / // / _/~\/ 67-RED 109" []]]]]]]]]]]------/ _| ROADSTER PICKUP []]]]]]]]]]]=======|_____========((==| WITH A GUMMY MAN ____=========_____------| | | IN THE BACK | |/|@) (@| | | | | | ** |/| || | * * | ___ | | __ | | |/||||||| |{ \____|_____/ \ | |____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_|| |___________________|[ } |[ ] \ / \ \ / \\ } ~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:59:51 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:39:32 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Final Assy To: "Walter C. Swain" Cc: ROY CALDWELL , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410192031.UAA27714@w112dcascr.wr.usgs.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I just went out and measured a Land Rover engine in my shop with a dial gauge and the end play was 6 thou. The acceptable play is from .0025 to .00555 or .06 mm to .14 mm. Personally I don't think you will notice anything between your end play and a new thrust plate but if you have the bucks get a new one. Usually there is so much play in the links of the timing chain, yes even a new one, that that tiny difference won't be noticeable. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 18:16:46 1994 Date: 19 Oct 94 18:59:03 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Land Rover 4 sale Status: RO I believe I have spoken to all of you who want to come and view the vehicle. If I have missed any of you (sorry) and here are the details: The Land Rover will be available for viewing at the Newark Airport Ramada from 9:30 to 2:30 this Saturday. I will be starting my journey to Massachusetts that evening. If you are interested in viewing can you please leave a message for me at the Ramada 201-824-4000. Here are the details again: A Refurbished 88" short wheel base (1960) Series II a.k.a. " Gyndwr " (Glendower)- chassis excellent. Genuine bronze green (enamel paint) body, limestone top and wheels. Reconditioned 2.25 liter petrol engine. New clutch, battery, oil pump, road springs, brake pipes, shock absorbers, carburettor, etc. Spare tire on bonnet with tire cover. New custom heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout, fully soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, heater, headliner and interior side trim , 2 rear spotlights, (5) 600X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps. 7 seater - all new deluxe Land Rover black front seats (3 in front) with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Rear Safari door with hard top. Hand throttle. Antenna - wired for radio. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. Wire lamp guards. Tow hitched front and rear, with wiring. More....... New workshop manual (still sealed) & UK/USA parts catalogues supplied. $8400. If you are still interested in seeing the 88" leave a message on 508-385-6632 or ring the Ramada after 9pm tomorrow...... Cheers, Leslie Stutsman UK Land Rovers --> Import/Export !^NavFont01F0007jLdHL394E61 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 18:44:31 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Nige stops 'em Dead To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 19:22:13 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Last night me and daNige found ourselves in Manhattan (THE CITY) stopped at a light. Light turns green and a cab shoots by on the right side, bolts in front of us, and slams on the brakes. Nigel's four 10" drums manage to stop us on a quarter and we breath a sigh of relief. No sooner is half the breath out than another cab slams into our rear end. Quite hard, in fact. So, we pull over to inspect the damage and an arguement with a Jamaican driver ensues....... "Luke at what you done to my cab, man!" "Ah, let's get something straight-YOU hit me." "But it is your fault-you stopped in road." "I stopped because one of your pals cut in front of me and stopped short. I managed to stop, with thirty year old brakes, but you didn't. Again, YOU hit me......ask any cop and he'll tell you if you hit someone in the rear, it is solely your fault." "I don't want to talk to policeman......" "OH, what do you want, then?" "I want you should pay for my headlight and for the damage to my front end." "Fergettit, pal. Your fault, not mine. Look, I'm prepared to live with the new dent in my rear end (it balances out the other side, now) and I hope you're prepared to live without your headlamp. If not, then we can get the cops involved-they'll straighten you out." At this point, cops were strolling down the sidewalk, his passenger had grown impatient, and he realized he was fighting a loosing battle. I was late for dinner, didn't care to get insurance companies much less cops involved, and couldn't imagine how I'd ever get an insurance adjuster to believe ALL those dents were done at once. "Later." and we were on our way. rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 20:27:20 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:14:27 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Land Rover TV show To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. Every shot had a Land Rover 110 doing its thing, in fact the vehicles became the stars of the production. I managed to record only about 40 minutes of it, but the first ten minutes are nothing but Land Rover shots so I missed the best part to tape. I am looking forward to seeing it again. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 23:40:14 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "David John Place" at Oct 19, 94 08:14:27 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 478 Status: RO Dave Place writes: < I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New < Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul < Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. Like, where & when, dude? 500 channels and nothing good to watch. It's easy to miss these things. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 07:54:39 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: LRO List Administrivia Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 08:02:31 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Well, if it (the list, etc.) breaks If you decide you must urgently leave the list, etc. ==>> It just won't happen until next month. <<== I'm off to Interops the beginning of next week, and hope I remember enough French from grade school to get by. The end of the next week, I've got an all expense paid trip to some part of Herefordshire that will undoubtedly be wet and cold then, (and require wearing wellies) for a corporate 'team build', (I suggested a programme at an off-road centre, but that didn't make it.) If any of you are headed there I'm supposed to be booked into the Hotel Adagio Nanterre, from Sunday, and I'll be leaving Wednesday. Cheers, -B From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 07:54:39 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:08:06 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Cam Timing To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Roy, David's advice on the end float was spot on. You really should follow the manual to confirm that the timing mark on the cam chain wheel is correct. To measure the lift on a certain cam lobe (I've forgotten which-it's in the manual), rotate the sprocket until the cam (cam lobe) reaches fully open, then turn the cam back slightly. Using a dial gauge to measure the lift on the lobe, rotate it towards fully open. At .005 (.007 or any other figure will work as long as it's consistent fore and aft) prior to fully open (fully open lasts awhile-you'll need to rotate it to the high point first to determine the setting on the dial gauge) stop and scribe or marker a mark on the chain wheel in alignment with one of the timing cover bolt holes (it's illustrated in the manual). Continue turning until you pass the highpoint then at .005 past, stop and scribe or marker another mark on the timing gear. Bisect the two and you have your timing mark for the timing gear. Align that mark as stated in the manual and rotate your crank to TDC. Now fit your timing chain. If it is slightly off, try to bias it in such a way so that the straight line of chain between the crank and the cam is shorter, in other words the cam mark is slightly to the right. By doing so, as the timing chain stretches it will come more into alignment rather than going out of alignment. All of this makes more sense when it's in front of you than when trying to visualize it. Don't be afraid to give Rovers North a call. They can walk you right through the procedure. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com I have several questions for the collective wisdom on the net: In the final stages of assy. for my 69 engine and the new cam chainwheel does not have the same P markings as the original. Did a stare and compare and think I have it correctly positioned. When I trial fitted the wheel for the cam end-float it is so tight that I could not get it to butt up against the cam shaft thrust plate. The way it is now there is .003 mm out on the end-float spec. Can the thrust plate be shimmed or can a thicker thrust plate be had or is the wheel not pressed on enough. It is really hard to tell. What to do gang? Or can I run safely with the chainwheel cam shaft end-float that far off? Any help would be nice. This thing is getting close and it has been too long without a running Rover. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What end-float measurement? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:01:43 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:52:00 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@team.net, sat@eng.tridom.com Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Update Cc: lisat@american.megatrends.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1266 Status: RO > Gentle Readers: > > Just in case any of you were losing sleep ;^) , my Disco now > flashes its parking lights appropriately. A new relay did the trick. > > This thread got me thinking a little, though. Perhaps there's an > opportunity for those of you who own real (old) Land Rovers to > help out those of us just starting out. There are lots of little, > semi-clever things that a Discovery does to make things more, yack yack... The light on my fuel gage ('64 88") comes on 7 to 10 seconds after the rest of the dash lights. It has done this consistantly for 29 years after the warranty ran out. This is the original Lucas bulb. How do they do this? Why do they do this? I believe this feature was an option in only this model year. The purpose is, of course fuel savings. To wit; You will naturally not need to check fuel until after you are actually underway, but before you reach the end of the cul-de-sac, so you will know to turn left, toward the free-way on ramp, or right to go to the service station. Therefore there would be no reason to waste energy on this function for some short time after "switch on." I did not order the truck, but I think the delay was to be specified at the time of order, to suit individual circumstances. R, bg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:22:28 1994 Date: 20 Oct 94 11:10:10 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re:Flashing Rover Update Status: RO Most of the Disco-gizmos Stephen relates to are also implemented in the 87' Range Rover Efi I recently purchased. Assuming their design hasn't changed too much over the years (which, in the case of Land Rovers, is highly unlikely), perhaps we can infer from Range to Discovery: > When the alarm is armed (via locking the driver's door or > using the remote), the parking lights flash three times. The old Range doesn't implement this feature (the squeaking suspension is alarm enough). > The interior lights do not immediately extinguish once all > doors are closed. Instead, they remain lit until the ignition > is started, or until a small amount of time has elapsed. ... ... > In addition to the standard turn signal indicator on the > dash, there's an auxiliary indicator for a towed trailer's > turn signals. When no trailer is attached, this auxiliary The Range has both these features, and the still function perfectly after now 7 years. > If you activate the turn signal and one of the turn signal > lamps has burned out (or has a poor connection), the turn > signal indicator flashes at twice its normal rate. This feature even still works like this on my 22-year old 109 Station! In other words: " DON'T WORRY ... BE HAPPY ... (while you can) ... tralala ... boop... boop" Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:27:46 1994 Date: 20 Oct 94 11:18:03 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: Email Status: RO Bill Maloney I don't like sending personal Email through the list but I'am about of options. For some reason compuserve will not allow mail to an ATT mail system to be sent through the internet. To an ATT mail system I need to use the x400 system. If you know what your x400 system address is please send it to me. For you to send me mail directly from an ATT system you will need to use my x400 address. My x400 address is country=us ADMD=compuserve PRMD=csmail DDA=75126,1123 See you at the rally next year hopefully Keith Steele 75126.1123@compuserve.com '72 Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:40:38 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:34:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: LRO late again Status: RO >Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue >of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? You all should assault someone, I think you should have the mag by now. We got the November Issue of LRO today over here (uk). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:44:38 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 08:41:59 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy Has anyone converted to a dual battery setup for a Disco? Where did you put it? Please advise!!! I "NEED" to do this, as I've started to install the overindulgence of lights ;-) and will be installing a winch by next summer. As for the question on fuel economy, I have ranged from 11.5 to 12.8 around the city. (Automatic trans.) THIS IS IN U.S. MILES AND GALLONS. Jurgen, would you please clarify your measuring units? Is that kilometers per imperial gallon? Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of measure used. Thanks, #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 11:51:47 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Re: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy To: DEBROWN@srp.gov Cc: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, Guy Kawasaki In-Reply-To: <199410201542.LAA15397@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1226 Status: RO David Laments: > As for the question on fuel economy, I have ranged from 11.5 to 12.8 > around the city. (Automatic trans.) THIS IS IN U.S. MILES AND GALLONS. Harry responds: As I reported earlier, I have been getting 15-16 city and 17-19 highway (in U.S. miles per gallon). We have the 5-speed and have been paying close attention to keeping the tach between 2000 and 3000 RPM, which is where the engine is most fuel efficient. Have you tried using "3" or "2" rather than "D" when in traffic? One other thing... I am also getting ready to switch over to synthetic engine and differential oil, which, hopefully, may help as well. Harry P.S. If you start putting lights on the roof rack, expect a further decline in fuel economy. Sorry. ______________________________________________________________________ Harry G. Greenspun, M.D. The Johns Hopkins Hospital Office: (410) 955-1337 Division of Cardiac Anesthesia Fax: (410) 955-0994 Tower 711 Paging: (410) 955-6070 Baltimore, MD 21287-8711 Internet: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu ______________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 11:56:19 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:05:01 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: land-rover-owner@team.net Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:05:34 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: RR Malady Priority: normal Status: RO > It seems that the drivers' door lock is an actuator, with all of the other > locks solenoids. Whilst you sleep (curioisly, this always happens at night > when no one is around to observe), the actuator fails/shorts, cycling all > of the other locks until something else burns out or the battery dies. > Methinks this part must be of Lucas manufacture. Reminds me of a problem an ex-boss had with his fancy BMW: He locked the doors, set the alarm and went on holiday for 2 weeks. When he came back the alarm was unset & all the doors were unlocked! After the palpitations has settled, he investigated properly and found that the battery had gone flat. (no juice = no alarm & no active door-locks :-) The next problem was getting to the battery: He had to park the car off-centre in the garage (the car was so wide he needed the make space to open the drivers door) and was unable to open the passenger rear door to lift the rear seat to get to the battery. Kneeling on the other half of the seat gave the wrong position to lift out the battery (this thing was a big 800aH battery!?) He was unable to start the car to drive it out (backwards and uphill) and pushing it was also out was a No-No. In the end he had to call the breakdown services (not a member) to drag the car up the hill AND buy a new battery. The question are: did BMW use Lucas systems and will this affect the new LR models? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 12:08:25 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:05:40 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com, land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: RR Malady Status: RO Thanks for the tip; I haven't (yet) experienced this particular malady on mine but HAVE experienced the annoying malady of post-desert lockup syndrome in which one or more of the doorlocks won't unlock (using the solenoids activated by the driver's door lock) after roving around dusty deserts. As near as I can determine, it seems to be a design flaw in the plastic inside lock levers and their guides; it can often be cured by blowing air into them and lubricating them with graphite. The solenoids themselves seem to activate merrily but somehow don't manage to push the lever up enough, seemingly due to the angle at which they are pushing. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 12:13:47 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:08:31 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re:Flashing Rover Update Status: RO I can second Stefan's remarks here -- most of the said features are used on RRs and mine have (so far) given no trouble. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 12:15:46 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:10:39 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy Status: RO Your 11.5 to 12.8 mpg around the city is about what I get on my 89 Range Rover with the same engine and an automatic. John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:20:41 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Nige stops 'em Dead From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 08:46:04 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > "Fergettit, pal. Your fault, not mine. Look, I'm prepared to live with the > new dent in my rear end (it balances out the other side, now) and I hope > you're prepared to live without your headlamp. If not, then we can get the > cops involved-they'll straighten you out." > > At this point, cops were strolling down the sidewalk, his passenger had > grown impatient, and he realized he was fighting a loosing battle. I was late > for dinner, didn't care to get insurance companies much less cops involved, > and couldn't imagine how I'd ever get an insurance adjuster to believe ALL > those dents were done at once. I thought the Jamacian got all pissed off with ol nige and walked around it Bates style beating it with his fists, lightly in some spots, heavily in others. All the dents were done at once, or at least looked at. Surely insurance would believe you then, especially if the police were witnesses. At the very least, the dent in the rear crossmember *may* have slightly thrown the adjustment out on the frame. A new frame is obviously required. Rgds, Dixon PS, you need a big pintle hook on the back. You could have taken out his radiator while you were at it... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 09:45:10 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:37:53 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: RR Malady Status: RO In talking to one of the service reps at the Mid-Atlantic Rally, he mentioned a curious malady endemic only to the '89 Range Rovers: door locks with a mind of their own. It seems that the drivers' door lock is an actuator, with all of the other locks solenoids. Whilst you sleep (curioisly, this always happens at night when no one is around to observe), the actuator fails/shorts, cycling all of the other locks until something else burns out or the battery dies. Methinks this part must be of Lucas manufacture. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 14:45:10 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 15:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Disco Oil Change To: Land Rover BBS Cc: David Brown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 450 Status: RO A quick note on the first oil change for the Disco: The undercoating is sprayed on with the oil plug in. Consequently, the plug is nearly impossible to remove the first time without a really big wrench (1 1/8"). In addition, you can't use a socket, because the exhaust pipe gets in the way. Once you have wrestled the plug out, the copper washer will be rigidly adherent to it. After that, smooth sailin'. Enjoy, Harry '94 Discovery From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 15:57:34 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 15:46:37 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: David John Place , lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410200439.WAA23749@mercury.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well in our area the public television network is Prairie Public TV. In your area, I guess you would have to consult your public TV station. It is one of the shows they produce as part of the public TV consortium. We watch the North Dakota TV as well as Detroit, so if they are carrying it you should have no problems finding it in your area Tom. The name New Explorers is the title of a weekly series and the one I am talking about is the premier one for this season. Sorry I can't tell you more but I seem to recall that your neck of the woods has a big Public TV system that looks after 4 or 5 states. Dave VE4PN On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, T.F. Mills wrote: > Dave Place writes: > > < I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New > < Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul > < Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. > > Like, where & when, dude? 500 channels and nothing good to watch. > It's easy to miss these things. > > > T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 16:27:15 1994 Date: 20 Oct 94 17:18:48 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: Stainless window channels Status: RO While my Rover is down awaiting a head rebuild I want to replace the totally rusted window channels. At the ROAV rally several people had replaced the Rover parts with stainless channels they had acquired from a marine dealer. Unfortuantely they were not able to remember where they had obtained them except from a marine dealer someplace. Does anyone know where in the US I can get window channels that will fit into the Rover door and side windows in back. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 16:36:50 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:27:52 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Camel Trophy To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Please forgive me if I have asked this before, but I send a lot of mail and I can't remember if I posted this to one person or the net. Does anyone know where I can buy this years Camel Trophy VHS tape. I have all of them back to 87 but I want this years, and I would dearly like to have the first couple which featured "real" Ser III type Land Rovers not the kind I cant afford :-) I bought last years from Rover's North I think. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 17:25:04 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: junk mail on the information superhighway Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 18:21:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Should this be of interest to any of you. Seems rather useless to me. Forwarded as per Todd's request. ------- Forwarded Message Message-Id: <9410202110.AA00381@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil> Subject: Usenet RFD: rec.autos.european Reply-To: todd@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil Summary: Proposed new group on cars of European design Keywords: European, cars REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION Group Name: rec.autos.european Status: Unmoderated Distribution: Worldwide Summary: Discussion of all aspects of the European school of automotive engineering and production. Proposed by: Eli Caul (isaac@solano.community.net) Todd Mullins (todd@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil) This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. Its language is based on previously submitted RFDs. This RFD is being crossposted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups rec.autos.misc rec.autos.driving rec.autos.vw It will also be sent to the following automotive mailing lists: Audi Quattro BMW British Cars Exotic-Cars Italian Cars Jaguar Land Rover Lotus Merkur Porsche Saab Triumph TR7/V8, TR8 Volvo CHARTER: The proposed group is intended for discussion of driving, maintaining, and enjoying automobiles developed by European manufacturers. European culture has had a particular affinity for the automobile since the early part of this century. Like the continent itself, the cars of Europe provide a rich variety of automotive experiences, from the legendary Autobahn-stormers of Germany to the quirky but quaint British runabouts; from the uncompromising performance of Italy's mechanical wonders to the uncompromising individuality of the city cars of France to the uncompromising safety of Sweden's robust cruisers. The cars are part and parcel of the culture, as evidenced by such events as the Mille Miglia and the Vingt-Quatre Heures du Mans, in which participants could literally race their daily drivers. There are a great many enthusiasts for these cars, be they SCCA or other sportscar club members, armchair rally enthusiasts, or former owners that like talking about cars they once had. In addition, many older European cars are now available relatively cheaply. Since many of these marques have ceased their operations in certain markets (such as Fiat/Lancia and Peugeot in North America), this newsgroup presents an opportunity for owners of such cars to share information, technical and otherwise, that is now officially unavailable. Cars of interest include, but are not limited to: - - Classic roadsters (and their GT variants) such as MGA/B/C, Triumph TR2-6, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, and Ferrari Spyders, and Mercedes SL, - - Traditional "sport sedans" such as BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, - - All things Porsche, - - Ordinary, everyday drivers like Volvo, VW, Renault, Rover, Fiat, European Ford, Vauxhall/Opel, - - European offroad vehicles such as Range Rovers, Mercedes Gelandewagen, and European military vehicles, - - Exotic marques such as Alpine, Aston Martin, Bugatti, Jensen, Lotus, Maserati, and McLaren, - - Niche vehicles such as Rolls Royce/Bentley and Morgan. Discussion should pertain to cars of a reasonably recent vintage, so as not to overlap with rec.autos.antique. Technical aspects of VW products, as well as Porsche, Audi, and Seat cars with VW componentry, should be directed to rec.autos.vw. Volvo/Saab bashing is explicitly disallowed. FUTURE CALL FOR VOTES After the discussion period for this proposed newsgroup (no more than 30 days), a Call For Votes may be crossposted to the same newsgroups as this RFD. The voting period will last for at least 21 days and no more than 31 days. - -todd todd@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 17:36:51 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=MACMGW/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 20 Oct 94 17:21:39 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: RE: questions about being shafted... Status: RO _______________________________________________________________________________ It could be lots of things but sounds to me like the trouble is in the diff i had the same problem about 3 months ago. while pulling away from some damp grass i must have slipped the clutch as the rear wheels got traction on the pavement and it started to click like clockwork. once every revolution so naturally i assumed it was the diff. once i took the diff out i found 6 teeth chewed off the diff. some of the gears were only split on the inside track and seemed like they were in that manner for some time. meaning if the gears are only half broken the damn thing will still work without any noise unless the gears are broken on the outside track where all the torque is. in my case there were two gears on the outside that were broken in series thus creating that awful noise.. i went to the local rover used parts guy and picked up a diff for 100.00 and slapped it all together in about an hour and was on my way. the axles were completely fine. From sinasohn@crl.com Thu Oct 20 20:25:19 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 18:24:04 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Status: RO Important! Important! When you pull your shafts out, make sure your Land Rover has blocks around the wheels! Otherwise, it will go wandering off into a nearby field by itself! And a Land Rover is much to heavy to stop by yourself! I know this from experience! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 20:32:58 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:25:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Henry Stevens To: LRO_List Subject: October Issue: Got it - Read it! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I received my October issue of LRO a week ago, here in Calgary, Alberta (just east of the Canadian Rockies). Another great issue. The difference may be that it appears Canadian subscriptions come directly from the UK to my mailbox (3D version that is), whereas when I was getting it last year in Boston, it had an different, US-based (New Jersey/New York??) return sticker on it. Hope it arrives soon for all concerned. Time for me to renew. -- Henry ================================================ /==============\ Henry Stevens | | | stevensh@cuug.ab.ca [|______|_______|] Calgary, Alberta, CANADA /___/^^^^^^\___\ |(@) [####] (@)| Have '64 MGB, want LWB Land Rover (need $$) | o [####] o | ======%%%%====== "Without a real car, I'm only {*}={&&}====={*} half a man." -Dean Jones {*} {*} "The Love Bug" ================================================ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 23:39:08 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "David John Place" at Oct 20, 94 03:46:37 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 765 Status: RO Dave from the top end of the map writes: < Well in our area the public television network is Prairie Public TV. In < your area, I guess you would have to consult your public TV station. ... < The name New Explorers is the title of a weekly series and the one I am < talking about is the premier one for this season. PBS, eh? I see I missed it on Wed, 9 p.m. -- durn! (Sould be pretty much same day and time throughout US.) Fortunately, Denver has a second "alternative" PBS station which shows the good new stuff two weeks late (for people like me who often miss it the first time around). Thanks for the tip! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 01:04:16 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 23:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: tomills@du.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"tomills@du.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > > Dave Place writes: > > < I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New > < Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul > < Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. > Great... So I'm at work on Thursday and one of my buddies says "Hey, did you see the program on Channel 17 (the local PBS station) last night. Lots of 110 Land Rovers..." I miss all the fun... :-( From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 22:45:55 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:33:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: flashing Disco lights (there's a pun there...) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I imagine with amusement (and understanding of such pathological behaviour since I exhibit it on occasion myself) someone sitting outside with the Disco s remote transmitter, trying to figure out all the little features in its logic controls. My question is this: How many times did the alarm go off while you were doing this and how many neighbors lights came on? Henry Wilson '94 Disco 5-spd From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 23:20:54 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 23:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Disco Bull-bars To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO On a recent trip to Germany, I saw several different types of bull/brush airbags, but how different can they be?), including chrome and black. One of the styles was the upside down "U" (about 2" diameter) with or without "teeth" (vertical "support" bars) in chrome and black and another was a (larger) upside down "U" style with integrated headlamp protectors, large round fog lamps on the grille and rectangular fog lamps below and lateral to these at bumper level, flanking a European-shaped license frame. In Germany these cost 2000DM or about $1200 each, but everything there ( especially that which is imported) is scarily overpriced. My question: Does anyone know of a way to get these in the USA? Is there a way to get them through Land Rover (they are Land Rover products). In general, Europe has much better access to Disco accessories than we do since they have had the car for 5 years already. Are Americans limited to Rovers North and dealerships? I sure hope not! Both of these Brush bars looked very cool--each a better design than the one currently offered on US Discos, IMHO. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 01:32:35 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"sinasohn@crl.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Uncle Roger looses his Rover.... > > Important! Important! > > When you pull your shafts out, make sure your Land Rover has blocks around > the wheels! Otherwise, it will go wandering off into a nearby field by > itself! And a Land Rover is much to heavy to stop by yourself! > > I know this from experience! > I'm trying to picture this... (ROFLMAO) Roger pulls the half shafts, and is about to continue his repairs when the wife calls him... He turns away from his work to answer and when he looks back.... IT'S GONE!!! OH GAWD... THE ROVERS GONE... Where did it go??? He looks furtively in all directions until he spies it - nestled admidst the assorted agricultural products in a nearby field... The Rover in the Clover. Oh man, it's too much to bear!!! Cheers.... Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 05:52:28 1994 Date: 21 Oct 94 06:40:51 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Status: RO > Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would > someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. > kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of > measure used. I remember having a multi-purpose unit conversion slide rule (convert from-anything to-anything) stashed away somewhere in my car. As soon as I find it (*if* I find it) I'll post a - hopefully precise and complete - consumption conversion table, ok ? BTW there's yet another fuel consumption unit existing in the german speaking european countries, "litres per 100 km"; weird, huh? Take care, Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 06:45:20 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com (Stefan R. Jacob) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:42:39 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <941021104051_100043.2400_BHJ82-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stefan R. Jacob" at Oct 21, 94 6:40 am Status: RO > > > > Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would > > someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. > > kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of > > measure used. > > I remember having a multi-purpose unit conversion slide rule (convert > from-anything to-anything) stashed away somewhere in my car. As soon > as I find it (*if* I find it) I'll post a - hopefully precise and > complete - consumption conversion table, ok ? > BTW there's yet another fuel consumption unit existing in the german > speaking european countries, "litres per 100 km"; weird, huh? > > Take care, > > Stefan > > > > Before anyone goes to unnecessary trouble,the common units of fuel consumption are:- 1)Miles per gallon (imp) 2)Miles per gallon (US) 2)Litres per 100km (Nasty foreign metric) No-one,I venture to suggest,Kilometres per litre(despite the fact it would seem to make more sense if they did),nor is there yet a bastardised unit which uses imp and metric in the same expression. Having said that,the metric system is such an unholy mess,I wouldnt be surprised at anything it spewed up.Why we didnt all just convert to the American system,particularly for screw threads is beyond me. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 08:29:58 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:28:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Re: Disco Bull-bars To: WILSONHB@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HIILRWPKMA8XEAFH@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 298 Status: RO Several places sell them. Atlantic-British has one which looks like original equipment. Rovers North has the OEM. However, if it's variety you want, D.A.P. sells Bearmach (made in Wales) which come in a wide range of styles. Sorry, I don't have the numbers on me; check the FAQ. Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:54:10 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: lro & military Land Rovers From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 19:54:49 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO This is a biased message concerning a friend exit now if you cant bear to read it. Most of you will by now realise that Bob Morrison is a friend of mine. It appears that the new hierachy at LRO "thinks" that they need less military material in the magazine. To that end they have told him they will be scaling things back and doing more in house stuff. I find that we as readers like material that is there but never really let the magazines know how we feel, I know I am guilty of this. If you like what Morrison does then please write in to LRO and let them know that you like the material Bob puts out. Thanks Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:53:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: L R W subscriptions From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 19:59:24 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I told you all about my returned LRW subscrption a while ago. I called the clowns at stonemart subscription services and told them I was not impressed. They whined on about how it cost them 35 quid to cash a Canadian postal money order made out in pounds sterling. I let them know that evry other place that I have dealt with in the uk has no trouble with them as they are totally negotiable and secure. No they said, no dice. Fine i said , i'll pass on your weird and wonderfull ways to the rest of the net. so be warned folks, rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:55:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: IIA Generator rebuild From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 20:03:55 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dirty diesel Dale Desprey lent me a generator from his IIA 68 88 for me to take into college and tinker with. This is how it went. The unit was caked in guck and oil and mud. Following the haynes manual as a guide the end with the terminals and studs was removed. oooooooooh The inside field coils and brushes were totally choked with the above goo. Once the springs for the brushes were unearthed (literrally) the brushes still needed to be removed with a screw driver and hammer! The hole unit was degreased and washed in the cleaning tank. The commutator was worn. a small ridge at one end. This was filed down whilst the armature was in a drill press, saved the walk to the machine shop to use the lathe. Worked just fine. Th casing was put into the glass beader after stuffing the inside to protect the coils. Really well cleaned, primed and then black painted and set aside. Bearing at pulley end seems fine so we elected to leave the pulleys on. Again with protection over the goodies and bearings it was glass beaded to clean up the pulleys and the fan parts. These were then primed and painted black. Commmutator check for continuity, and comutator to shaft checked for lack of contiuity. Put on a growler to check the windings, came up "A" ok. A new set of brushes were bought, toatly cost less that $5 can dollars. bushing was lubricated with a white grease gunk and unit reassembled. Terinals on the end checked for continuity ( oops , forgot to mention that field coils were checked for contiuity earlier aswell.) Everything fine. unit bench mounted and a 12volt battery used to check that it would turn over fine, which it did, no problem. Unit place in a box, ready for delivery back to Dale, looks a super rebuild too me. A word of warning to you all, when taking apart your starters generators etc, after the field coils are inserted at the factory, and the magnets installed all units are line bored. There for if you undo them from the casing they will most likely foul the armature on reassembly! regards Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:55:06 1994 From: OliverGr@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:52:24 -0400 Sender: OliverGr@aol.com To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Discovery Turbo-Diesel specs... Status: RO Does anyone have the specs for the Turbo-Diesel version of the Discovery? Performance? Mileage? Are there any hints on the horizon that it may be brought to the US in the near future? How long has the Discovery been produced in Europe? Also, why in the world doesn't Rover send their long wheelbase Defenders over here (US)? Thanks... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:53:43 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:57:40 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:58:01 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Priority: normal Status: RO > > > Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would > > > someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. > > > kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of > > > measure used. > > > Before anyone goes to unnecessary trouble,the common units of > fuel consumption are:- > 1)Miles per gallon (imp) > 2)Miles per gallon (US) > 2)Litres per 100km (Nasty foreign metric) > Here's another thought -- what's the cost of fuel? when we hit 2 quid a gallon (imp), we changed to litres.... Around my area, Unleaded petrol price = Diesel price = 50p/l (+/- 3p). anyone want to offer comparitiver prices? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From ccray Fri Oct 21 11:02:49 1994 Subject: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:02:49 -0500 (CDT) Bcc: ccstm@pinhead.cc.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3969 Status: RO Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting my daily driver back on the road. -- pulled the half shafts, ok -- dropped the drive shaft (3/4 bolts came right out, of course the 4th had to be cut off with a torch). -- pulled the diff. I knew there were problems when I drained the oil -- lots of small ground up metal parts there -- no big ones, however -- and the oil level was proper. Very effective grinder it appears. -- One of the spider gears had 1/3 of the teeth missing. All others including the pinion/crown wheel look fine. -- Threw both both diffs (old and new) onto the trailer and took `em down to the carwash and spent $3 to clean `em up good. Let `em dry and sprayed with WD40. -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the pinion nut properly. OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I have some questions to ask: -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: a. I know ball bearings can be viewed with a light as a background to look for pits in the race. Any pits, replace. Of course, make sure it spins with no obstruction b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") -- Anyway, back to the diff, the bearings didn't make extra noise while still running and things appear to rotate ok. So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. Q: Has any netter out there rebuilt a diff -- or just repaired one by putting in new spyder gears. It appears to me that they could all 4 just drop out by pulling 2 cotter pins and sliding out 2 rods. Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. Q: Any netter out there have a diff in similiar state -- we could flip and the winner gets the parts to rebuild. Anyway, good to know the source of the noises. BTW, LULU's automated frame oiler seems to be working quite well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 10:48:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Mr Ian Stuart) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 16:38:04 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4F30E156E6@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk>; from "Mr Ian Stuart" at Oct 21, 94 2:58 pm Status: RO This area (Midlands),diesel 47.9/l,unleaded 48.9l leaded about 50. Interestingly,the last fill of diesel I got was ELF deodorised stuff. It doesnt smell at all,but it doesnt seem to smoke any less.However,I *do* seem to be getting a few more MPG's out of it.Cant be bad! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 10:46:44 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: IIA Generator rebuild To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 16:41:20 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9cRiuc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at Oct 20, 94 8:03 pm Status: RO Hmmmm.Whatever happened to undercutting the commutator(which by virtue of the operation on the drilling machine isnt round anyway). Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 11:14:02 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:02:49 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3968 Status: RO Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting my daily driver back on the road. -- pulled the half shafts, ok -- dropped the drive shaft (3/4 bolts came right out, of course the 4th had to be cut off with a torch). -- pulled the diff. I knew there were problems when I drained the oil -- lots of small ground up metal parts there -- no big ones, however -- and the oil level was proper. Very effective grinder it appears. -- One of the spider gears had 1/3 of the teeth missing. All others including the pinion/crown wheel look fine. -- Threw both both diffs (old and new) onto the trailer and took `em down to the carwash and spent $3 to clean `em up good. Let `em dry and sprayed with WD40. -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the pinion nut properly. OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I have some questions to ask: -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: a. I know ball bearings can be viewed with a light as a background to look for pits in the race. Any pits, replace. Of course, make sure it spins with no obstruction b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") -- Anyway, back to the diff, the bearings didn't make extra noise while still running and things appear to rotate ok. So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. Q: Has any netter out there rebuilt a diff -- or just repaired one by putting in new spyder gears. It appears to me that they could all 4 just drop out by pulling 2 cotter pins and sliding out 2 rods. Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. Q: Any netter out there have a diff in similiar state -- we could flip and the winner gets the parts to rebuild. Anyway, good to know the source of the noises. BTW, LULU's automated frame oiler seems to be working quite well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 11:30:54 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Mr Ian Stuart) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:27:44 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <4F30E156E6@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk>; from "Mr Ian Stuart" at Oct 21, 94 2:58 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Ian Stuart asks: > Here's another thought -- what's the cost of fuel? Here in the metro NY area, where gas is about as expensive as it gets in the states, we pay in the $1.20-1.60 range for unleaded gasoline these days, depending upon the grade (roughly 86-93 octane rating), the seller (generally, Mobil, Exxon, Sunoco, and Texaco are the "top of the line" gasolines, but the actual location of the station and the greed of the station's owner also affect the price), and the time of year (now as we enter the winter season we are being hit with the heavily oxagenated fuels which cost a dime or so more per gallon). A heavy chunck of this price goes to taxes, which supposedly are directed towards road improvement (but you really wouldn't notice). Gas is cheaper in Joisey, mostly on account of reduced state taxes on gasoline (and much much much higher toll rates on their highways). rd/nigel From ccray Fri Oct 21 12:11:42 1994 Subject: it happened again... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:11:42 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1194 Status: RO OK, so I am wasting company time -- actually it is 12:05 -- the noon hour. I just spent 5 minutes composing my reply to the gas price question and sent it in. The problem is that I didn't "CC" the LRO mailing list and only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. I know we discussed this before, but being dumb, this happens to me a lot. Just griping, sorry, steam vented, all ok, back to work... Actually, I love the LRO mailing list and am very happy to be a subscriber. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:20:50 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: it happened again... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:11:42 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1193 Status: RO OK, so I am wasting company time -- actually it is 12:05 -- the noon hour. I just spent 5 minutes composing my reply to the gas price question and sent it in. The problem is that I didn't "CC" the LRO mailing list and only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. I know we discussed this before, but being dumb, this happens to me a lot. Just griping, sorry, steam vented, all ok, back to work... Actually, I love the LRO mailing list and am very happy to be a subscriber. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:40:06 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 10:38:01 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.net, WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Subject: Re: Disco Bull-bars Status: RO There are several other sources of such accessories but I don't think any of the non-dealer ones are up to the airbag world yet. Even the dealers don't yet have an airbag compatible winch mount. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:41:32 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: it happened again... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:38:22 CDT In-Reply-To: <9410211711.AA16191@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 21, 94 12:11 pm Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu said: > The problem is that I didn't "CC" the LRO mailing list and > only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic > and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list > software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO > mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original > poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list > to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. > > I know we discussed this before, but being dumb, this > happens to me a lot. Ray, I am glad to know that it isn't only to me that this happens all the time. No, really, in most areas of life I even consider myself competent... I'd love to see your suggestion (implicit above) implemented. I love the LRO list and would like to see more exchanges, especially as I know that many interesting bits are lost to (inadvertent) private email... Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:46:37 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 10:43:17 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: WILSONHB@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu, hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Subject: Re: Disco Bull-bars Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Status: RO In addition to Harry's suggestions, there are also ARB bullbars available from Rovers North and British Pacific, TJM bullbars available through Downey off-road, and Aussie bullbars from Oz bars in Oregon However, as far as I know, none of them are "airbag certified". John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 13:53:28 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:40:33 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: The Great Pumpkin & Lulu To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray asks: >> -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... >> Probably due to the abuse/neglect of the previous owner. Just keeping the diff topped off and changing it every other year (more often if you wade) can make it live so much longer. >> -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. >> Keep it for a rainy day (or if you get snowed in). Strip it down completely to teach yourself how it works, then if you can't find used parts, order them from one of the UK suppliers if you can't afford RN. Then you can take your time and borrow (or buy) a dial gauge and rebuild it properly. It's amazing how much more fun it can be when you are not under any pressure. And you'll be amazed at the increase in your level of self confidence regarding your mechanical skills. >> Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: >> If one side of a gear tooth looks more worn than the other (compare the profiles, or if there is any sign of galling/pitting, replace it. >> b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. >> Bad boy! Bad boy! No! No! No! (Yea, I know it's fun. I used to do it in my Piston Engine class... and my instructor would go ape shit on my... which I guess was part of the fun). >> c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") >> If you are referring to the IIA main box, he was right. The low gear does wear disproportionately to the other parts. >> So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. >> If you've gone to that much trouble, get the 4 (I think they only come in matched sets). >> -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. >> Since it will be a spare diff at that point, do it. If nothing else, think of it as a therapeutic exercise that will take your mind off of lifes larger problems. >> Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. >> $100 is exactly what I paid Mr. Denis for my spare diff. When I got the 88 all the hub seals were leaking. When I pulled the first seal on the real axle mud & water seeped out past the axle. I drained the diff and it was 1 part water and 2 parts sludge. I can't imagine how that much water got in there. I pulled the axles and the diff (Geez! That's heavy!!!) and found a couple of the spyder gears to be pitted along with several teeth on the crown wheel. I hosed the inside of the axle casing with gunk, scrubbed it, and flushed it (several times until it was clean) I replaced everything and changed the oil again after 500 miles, then once a year since. It's been fine with no filings and no noise after almost 4 years. After I discovered this I was afraid that I might get stuck when the diff failed and bought the spare from Steve. But folks told me that it could go for a very long time in that state, and at this point I don't worry about it. Good Luck and have a great weekend! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:23:17 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:17:19 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Rover 2.25l petrol engine 4sale in TX, USA Status: RO I'm posting this for a friend so please call him to ask questions. Land Rover 2.25l petrol engine complete from '71 88 - he is going to go with a Scotty conversion. Engine is in Austin, TX. It is still in the car at this time. $500. John Spitta - 512 472-3666 From /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com Fri Oct 21 15:19:37 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com Date: 21 Oct 94 15:20:55 -0600 To: @amail.mot.com:ccray#064#lulu.cc.missouri.edu@smtpgw Subject: RE: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... Status: RO You should check to see if there is play in the gears. sloppy difffs are a sure way of getting backlash and more broken gears. between the crown, pinion and spider gears. _______________________________________________________________________________ To: /S=lro@transfer.stratus.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ From: /S=ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ on Fri, Oct 21, 1994 2:10 PM Subject: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3968 Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting my daily driver back on the road. -- pulled the half shafts, ok -- dropped the drive shaft (3/4 bolts came right out, of course the 4th had to be cut off with a torch). -- pulled the diff. I knew there were problems when I drained the oil -- lots of small ground up metal parts there -- no big ones, however -- and the oil level was proper. Very effective grinder it appears. -- One of the spider gears had 1/3 of the teeth missing. All others including the pinion/crown wheel look fine. -- Threw both both diffs (old and new) onto the trailer and took `em down to the carwash and spent $3 to clean `em up good. Let `em dry and sprayed with WD40. -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the pinion nut properly. OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I have some questions to ask: -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: a. I know ball bearings can be viewed with a light as a background to look for pits in the race. Any pits, replace. Of course, make sure it spins with no obstruction b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") -- Anyway, back to the diff, the bearings didn't make extra noise while still running and things appear to rotate ok. So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. Q: Has any netter out there rebuilt a diff -- or just repaired one by putting in new spyder gears. It appears to me that they could all 4 just drop out by pulling 2 cotter pins and sliding out 2 rods. Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. Q: Any netter out there have a diff in similiar state -- we could flip and the winner gets the parts to rebuild. Anyway, good to know the source of the noises. BTW, LULU's automated frame oiler seems to be working quite well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 16:33:44 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 16:55:33 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: SS Window Channels Status: RO Keith- A local ship chandler, Paxton Co., sells 8' lengths. I think the double tracks are about $20, less for the single. If you can figure how to ship them (does UPS do 8'?) their number is 804-853-6781. I gave Bruce at British Rovers their number and he was going to order 100 pieces (the minimum wholesale order direct from the mfg.) and cut 'em up into proper lengths, but I don't know if he has done so. A tip: these things fit tight. The glass rides on a strip of derlin or zytel rather than the rudinentary felt/moss/fungi/tree seedling setup common to most Rovers. The strip can be removed and there is a cloth shim strip underneath that can be removed to give a bit more clearance. Now for my question: WRT the thread on halogen lights, I have finally decided to replace my *original* Lucas sealed beams (200K miles, 22 years) which, as someone at OVLRC said, serve more to warn oncoming drivers than actually illuminate the road. Off road, the pair of 130W auxillarys do just fine, but as these illuminate into the next county (no one, but *no one* fails to dip beams approaching the Rover!) they're no good for highway use. Several years ago, I bought some supposed 7" sealed beam Phillips bulbs (french manufacture), but these things wouldn't fit the steel retaining ring in the headlight bucket. I put this down to the typical French way of doing things: slightly off center just to be different. Now the local auto parts store has some halogen 60/40W Sylvania 7" lamps on sale while another has some nifty, bright (illegal?) Hella's. With brush guards/bumper overriders, it ain't a five minute job. Anyone else had problems fitting "7 inch" lamps? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Fri Oct 21 17:20:42 1994 From: Russell G. Dushin Subject: Re: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 18:24:28 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410211602.AA15614@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 21, 94 11:02 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should > only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember > I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where > the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the > pinion nut properly. You can get away with brakes, assuming they work and that you have your half shafts in. > Q: Any netter out there have a diff in similiar state -- we could > flip and the winner gets the parts to rebuild. Nigel (aka the growler) has his original diff in nowadays (no more leaks!!). No teeth missing, but the bearings really ought to be replaced sometime (like, uh, I should have done them while I had those two brand new leaking rear diffs in there, but.....). I just turn up the radio....oops, don't have a radio....I just open the window and sing along with it. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 19:43:03 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ray is happy... > > Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting > my daily driver back on the road. snip-snip > OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I > have some questions to ask: > -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no > spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. > Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone > to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... > I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. You could say "shit happens", but that is the official motto of the OVLR and you would have to ask Dixon's permission first... Cheers... and good luck Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 02:51:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: lro & military Land Rovers From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 22 Oct 94 00:00:28 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) writes: > This is a biased message concerning a friend > exit now if you cant bear to read it. I read everything. Sometimes I even pass comment... > Most of you will by now realise that Bob Morrison is a friend of mine. > It appears that the new hierachy at LRO "thinks" that they need less > military material in the magazine. Known that Bob is a friend of your for years. Even like some of the stuff that he writes. Can be rather interesting and informative. However, I do recall your message regarding the takeover of LRO by EMAP and the possible repercussions, and this seems to fit right in. > To that end they have told him they will be scaling things back and doing > more in house stuff. So we will see more Defender, Disco, Range Rover shit. How nice. I am sure the yuppies will be delighted not to read about old junkers still on the road. You know as well as I that they are losing subscriptions left, right, and centre to LRW (Guess they don't use postal orders & their excuse doesn't wash) because LRW realises that there is a military and *Series* market out there. Again, the sale to EMAP and LRO as a cash cow seems to be coming true... LRO seems to be more interested in the long-lost artform called Petomania. > I find that we as readers like material that is there but never really > let the magazines know how we feel, I know I am guilty of this. LRO can get stuffed. This is the magazine that perpetually runs a month late in delivery, has had a stated policy of "if your name appears in LRW you will never be published in LRO", doesn't give a damn about older Land Rovers for the most part... Some people in LRO are rather nice and amiable. Others are useless. The people running the show seem to fall into the later catagory. LRO, I might remind you, deemed that off shore clubs didn't exist despite OVLR (and others) sending them a newsletter for a long time. LRW has made a good effort to advertise clubs and their doings (good advertising for themselves too...) and wrote about OVLR the first time they heard of us. You think I am going to be impressed with LRO? Not a chance... > If you like what Morrison does then please write in to LRO and let them > know that you like the material Bob puts out. The writing has been on the wall for something like this for the past year. Morrison's audience just doesn't fit in with the new perceived demographics for the magazine. As much as I would like to write LRO about this, there is so much other stuff I would like to flame them about. Personally, I think LRW is the better route. They are nice on the phone, they listen to comments (whether they do anything is inmaterial really, it is a business and I don't have a clue how to run a successful magazine, nor want to...) and seem to have a better product that fits my interests. 240 pages of mostly advertising (LRO) doesn't fit my interests. Rgds, Dixon PS. When my subscription to LRO lapses, it is history, just like the majority of everyone I know. (You know anyone who has renewed LRO? I don't...) LRW has its faults, but it is new and here we have a case where the devil we know isn't necessarily better than the one we don't. PPS. Use a credit card like everyone else. The rates are better than Communist Post & no one gives you any hassle. 'tis something the capitalist system seems to have done right (more or less...) PPS. LRO has been going down hill. EMPA buys LRO. LRO goes faster downhill. LRO has a history of not paying writers for material... Linkhouse Magazines publishes LRW. Linkhouse has published Mini World for two years now. MiniWorld has gotten a lot better over time. LRW can only go uphill through transfusion of knowledge from the sister magazine. LRW has offered to pay writers for material thus far... Your conclusions? PPS. When you write LRO, convey my regards & my statement that the big green beastie & little earth pig will both outlast the current 90's and Discos that them seem so horny about. I wouldn't tell them that I'll have more fun that the average 90 owner. It might upset them, or just have them adjust their blinders a little more. Eventually they will pull them so tight, they may blow a head gasket and see the light. Now, back to my regularly scheduled job of writing correspondence and policy for the Deputy Minister... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 03:01:04 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: lro reply mode (it happened again) To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com (Mark V Grieshaber) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 01:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410211738.AA10415@shute.monsanto.com> from "Mark V Grieshaber" at Oct 21, 94 12:38:22 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1211 Status: RO Ray and Mark write: < > only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic < > and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list < > software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO < > mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original < > poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list < > to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. < > < I'd love to see your suggestion (implicit above) implemented. < I love the LRO list and would like to see more exchanges, < especially as I know that many interesting bits are lost to < (inadvertent) private email... The flip side of this is private email that inadvertently goes public when the reply is automatically set to the list. I have seen some pretty horrendous examples on professional lists. But, all in all, I would think most of the traffic on lro -- whether it be technical, toys, or trumpery -- is meant for all, and I too would like to see such an automatic enhancement. (But I am not sure it is possible in this non-listserver environment -- is it?) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 10:53:48 1994 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 11:49:56 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Discover on Car Talk To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Good morning all, Between pledge breaks this morning, Tom & Ray Marizotti(?), aka Click & Clack, has a call from a woman on the east coast inquiring about the Land Rover Discovery compared to other sport utilities. She listed typical Ford Explorer etc. Sorry, they have a national one hour automobile call-in radio show once a week on National Public Radio. Answer are always a mix of humor, psychology, insults and occasionally a genuine question and answer with some degree of brilliance. Anyway, the conversation went something like this (as best I can read my scribbles from the back of a grocery store receipt); It is more expensive than anything else on your list Add the Toyota Land Cruiser if you are going to spend that much Pile of money difference (comparing to Ford Explorer again) Explorer is more like a car, Discovery more, well like Moncho, no, more like mystery. And no dealers to add to the excitement, but like driving a Land Rover in the desert, do dealers there either. It's like they wanted to bring the adventure to you. Hated it at first blush (mentions having one to drive a short while while ago) - narrow stance - bouncy - a lot of dog hairs on the seat - dog w/arthritis or something had trouble jumping up to seat (But then the first impression seemed to moderate and they went on something like) Two sunroofs & lots of pockets everywhere Unique Short kacky pants & hat like the Eddie Bower edition, needs a Marlin Perkins Edition. great on the highway (contrasting the first opinion above it think) fun They start to discuss how first impression change, but then immediately digress to how much they dislike GM's new Firebird from the moment they sat in it to the time they were done driving it. (I think they ment to contrast this with their experience with the Discover, but my station choose to interrupt for a pledge break so I'm not sure ) Having not driven one yet myself, I have no personal comments. Fortunately, or not, my dealer is in Cincinnati (one hour away); so my experiences how been less adventuurous than the desert. However, Parkersburg WV next month may change this????? Andrew, & dog Dayton, OH 87 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 17:46:29 1994 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 94 18:34:47 EDT From: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" To: lro@team.net Apparently-To: lro@team.net Subject: Oil circuit question Status: RO I've been working on a persistent low oil pressure and green-light-on-decel problem(s) for the past few weekends. On some advice from TeriAnn, I've reduced the oil pressure drop a bit but certainly haven't eliminated it. So, I've been going through the Rover and Haynes manuals looks for things to try other than that wallet nightmare, bad bearings. In poking around, I began to wonder how the hell pressurized oil is kept out of the camshaft area and distributor. The pressurized feed from the pump goes up the shaft which leads, eventually, to the distributor/pump drive gear. Before that, of course, it ports over to the oil filter and beyond where, hopefully, it actually performs some lubrication task. But neither manual details or mentions any kind of seal at the base of the drive gear. A picture in the Haynes manual suggests that the base might form a kind of journal in the block. Would someone who's poked in there care to enlighten me? monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 19:59:13 1994 Date: 22 Oct 94 20:49:46 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Status: RO ...managed to find that old slide rule after all; so FWIW, here's what I've come up with: 1 US gall. = .83 imp gall. = 3.78 l 1 imp gall. = 1.20 US gall. = 4.54 l 1 l = .22 imp gall. = .26 US gall. 1 mile = 1.61 km ( 1.609285714286 to be precise) 1 km = .62 miles 1 mpg (US) = 0.83 mpg (imp) = 234,93 l/100 km 1 mpg (imp) = 1.20 mpg (US) = 282,16 l/100 km 1 l / 100 km = 238.46 mpg (US) 1 km per litre = 2.38 mpg (US) Please note that the consumption units mpg and l/100km are _reciprocal_: Whereas with mpg the fuel volume is the fixed parameter (always 1 gallon) and the distance travelled on this amount of fuel varies, with litres per 100km you have a certain distance travelled (1ookm) as fixed value, and the amount of fuel consumed over this distance as variable parameter. Take account of this when doing conversions between the two, or you will get grossly inaccurate results. Here are some 'reasonable' values: 20 mpg (US) = 16.6 mpg (imp) = 11.74 litres/100 km 15 litres/100 km = 15.89 mpg (US) = 18.78 mpg (imp) 8 litres/100 km = 36.47 mpg (imp) = 29.81 mpg (US) Enjoy! Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 20:36:37 1994 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:21:07 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil circuit question To: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410222226.AA26691@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO If you look on page 23 of the Haynes manual, you will see in fig 1.11 a cork seal letter D. That is the only seal you have. Under the distributor is the drive shaft which goes down the pump drive shaft housing and on top of all this sits the drivegear running off the cam shaft and the driveshaft coupling. An inexpensive thing to check is that the units marked H, J, K, and L in Fig 1.13 Page 23 are in good shape. You can change your oil pressure by stretching spring K, but don't overdo it :-) I found that if you take out the ball and clean the seat under the relief valve, you can often help your oil pressure a lot. taking off the pan and cleaning the screen on the oil pump is also a cheap fix sometime. You will notice that once you have the pan off, you can check the oil pump by removing the two retaining bolts and doing the feeler gauge bit mentioned and shown in the photo. Some new pump gears shouldn't set you back much and it can make your beast like new again. Hope this helps. By the way, make sure your breather is clean. It can clog and cause you to force oil out of the engine by the back pressure built up by the pump and the swinging counterweights. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 20:48:44 1994 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:38:06 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Dual brakes To: LRO@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Has anyone rebuilt the dual brake cylinder on the Ser III?. I recently did my spare unit on the bench, and the plunger doesn't return on its own. I have to put some air pressure into it or bang it on my wood bench to move the plunger back to the opening. I don't want to install it and find out it isn't moving and have to re-bleed all the lines. I put in a new valve and "O" ring seal and i honed the bore but I don't seem to recall it being so hard to get to move. Maybe my new rubber is just a bit tight :-) Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 22 21:10:06 1994 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:44:45 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Saving Land Rover Info To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Is anyone else using QuickLink II Fax to contact the net? I would like to save the technical replys on a floppy, but I don't know how to transfer the stuff over to a disk. In the past two months there have been 30 really good tips on the list and I would like to keep them but they take up a lot of room in the mail list. Any help would be appreciated. Is the list of non Rover parts still being added to. I hope someone else has some tips. I can add using snowmobile leather for doors and seats because it won't freeze and split in the cold. I have it on my head liner as well and it is great. And the foam pipe insulation is great for keeping the heater hoses to your extra rear heater toasty warm in the winter. I also found that the heavy rubber used on loading docks makes a great rear mat. It is about 1/2" thick so it kills the noise as well as never wearing out. It can be taken out and hosed off at the car wash. I also use flat trailer connectors in the vehicle to attach the wires for the rear windscreen wiper and overhead light. It allows me to remove the top by unplugging the wires rather than cutting them off each time :-) They are of course water proof, an extra bonus for people wading to the roof:-) For those who take their top off and then have cold climates to contend with, I have found a 1" single sided foam tape with a plastic covered side that is just the thing for the seal between the top and the box. It is available from any hardware store (at least up here where they sell lots of insulation) for about $2.00 per roll. It is enough for above the window at the front and all around the box. I found that my local tent and awning store had some persplex type material to replace the scratched plastic window on my soft top that is far superior to the stuff you get from Jolly Old England. It rolls easier and seems to scratch less. Finally, instead of replacing that bull nose pulley when the shaft gets scored, go to any good automotive rebuild shop and ask for a Jiffy Sleeve. It has a resiistive fit to the shaft and will stop the leaks that happen at the chain seal hole. I suggest you have them put it on because it is a tight fit and it should be pressed on die straight. It makes the shaft better than new since it is I believe stainless steal. I hope some of these things help. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 00:47:51 1994 Date: 23 Oct 94 01:38:15 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: Head lights & window channels Status: RO Sandy; Thanks for the information on the window channels. I just send Bruce my head to repair (if possible) and do the valve job. When he is done I will ask him if he has got the channels ready. On the subject of headlights. There was a discussion a month or so on the subject but from personal experience. I am using the 7 inch leagl halogen sealed beam headlights on another car and am reasonably satisfied. I used to use CIBE illegal non-sealed beam head lights on my Rover and was very satisfied. The low beam is identical to the Hella (which I just installed prior to the rally). The high beam on the CIBE is in the shape of an inverted V. The bottom of the V lights up the road close in and the top of the V lights the road very far ahead (about 2-3 times the maximum stopping distance of a non-overdrive equipped Land Rover. IMHO the high beam of the Hella is good (better than halogen sealed beam) but not as good as the CIBE lights. The reason I got the Hellas was that I could not locate the CIBE lights around Cincinnati. Annoying other drivers - The low beam of the Hellas/CIBEs is only slightly brighter than normal but the beam has a VERY flat top. The flat top keeps the lights out of oncomming dirvers eyes and is actually easier on their eyes. The flat top also acts as a fog light and lights up the road below the fog and not the fog in front of your eyes. The right side of the beam slopes up to illuninate road signs, pedistrians, and other assorted objects. Because of the design of the beam the illunination on low beam is much more even, you do not get the two pools of light that you get with normal lights. Aiming the beams is very important. If they are too high they will annoy other drivers and if they are too low, because of the flat beam, they will not light up the road very far ahead. It is best to aim them by hand on a flat road at night preferably with no traffic! The only negative aspect of the Hella/Cibe low beams is when you are topping a hill the low beams will momentairely lift up and may annoy (but not blind) an oncomming driver. I don't have bull bars so replacing the headlights was very easy. Remove the square bezel around the headlights on the front of the wing. They are held on by four screws. The screws go into plastic blocks so they should not be frozen. Once the bezel comes off it is obvious how to remove the headlights. The two screws you can see without removing the bezel (one on the top and one on the side of each head light) are the aiming screws you do not need to take off the aiming screws! One last word of warning. DO NOT TOUCH THE BULBS WITH YOUR HANDS in the non-sealed beam head lights. If you do the grease on your hands (even with clean hands) will heat up and cause the bulbs to fail in a few hours. Handle them with a clean cloth or a paper towel. If you do touch them clean well with windex. Once you have assembled all the tools (one flat screwdriver) it will take you less than 5 minutes per lamp. Hope this helps and have fun Keith Steele 75136,1123@compuserve.com '72 Series III 88 since new (currently headless) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 17:24:34 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Sun, 23 Oct 1994 22:17:29 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net, hiner@mail.utexas.edu Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 23:18:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: UK Club list, Correct for November '94 Priority: normal Status: RO This is the UK clubs list, as taken from LRO & LRW, November issues. You will notice that some entries have 2 contacts listed -- this is because the two magazines do not agree, and I dont think that these people want to be bothered at 10pm on a sunday :-) Greg, I've sorted it into alphabetical order, so it should drop straight into your web pages... (PS -- any chance of splitting the UK list into the 4 countries?) ----------- Insert text file -------------- All those marked with a * are members of the Association of Rover Clubs Ltd. ----------------------------------------------------------------- * The Accosiation of Rover Clubs Ltd. Andrew J. Stavordale, 65 Longmead Avenue, Hazel Grove Stockport. SK7 5PJ. Tel: 061 456 8224. * ARC Overseas Liason Officer 1) Fran Luxton, Woodbine Cottage, Lameton, Tavistoke, Devon PL19 8RZ Tel: 0822 610650 2) David Jenden, The Cottege, Castle Hill, Goldington Road, Bedford MK41 0JA International - UK Based ------------------------ * 101 Forward Control Club and Register Mr. H. Smith, 13 Gloucester Gardens, Baintree, Essey. GM7 GL6. Tel: 0376 552331 All Wheel Drive Club. SAE to : PO Box 6, Fleet GU14 9YL. Club Discovery Ray Gates, West Farm, Witham-on-the-hill, Bourn, Lincs. PE10 QJN Tel: 0778 33484 Fax: 0778 33466 Euopean 4x4 Club Nicholas Moates, The Old Forge, London Road, Wendons Ambo, Saffom Walden, Essex CB11 4JL. Tel: 0799 542052 Ex-Military LR Association. Mark Cook, 50 St Andrew Street, Leighton Buzzard, Beds. LU7 8DS Tel: 0525 372 016 * Forward Control Register, IIA and IIIB C. B. Heron, 28 Front Street, Daisy Hill, Sacriston, County Durham. DH7 6BL. Tel: 091 371 2527 * Land Rover Register (1947 -- 1951) Richard Lines, 35 Park Road, Yeadon, Leeds. LS19 7EX. Tel/Fax: 0532 506546 * Land Rover Series One Club. David Bowyer, East Foldhay, Zeal Monachorum, Crediton, Devon. EX17 6DH. Tel: 0363 82666, Business hours Only. * Land Rover Series II Club. 1) PO Box 1750, Bridport, Dorset. DT6 5YJ 2) F. Myatt, 8Willow Grove, Malvern Link, Worcestershire WR14 2SE Tel: 0684 572644 Land Rover Series III Club Frank King, 16 Holly Street, Cannock, Staffordshire. WS11 2RU Tel: 0543 423326 * Lightweight Land Rovers Club. Sue Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Breighmet, Bolton. BL2 5NT Tel: 0204 396449 * Range Rover Register Ltd. Les Booth, 794 Lower Rainham Road, Rainham, Kent. ME8 7UD. Tel: ---- The Land Rover Club (Student organisation ?) Dominic MArder or Ben Metcalf, c/o Southampton IHE, Warwash Campus, Newton Road, Warwash, Southampton. ENGLAND ------- Anglican Rover Owners Club Ltd. 1) Dave thompson, 14 Black Swan Lane, Luton, Beds. LU3 2LU. Tel: 0582 507905 2) Karen Bristow, 35 The Lawns, Fields End, Hemel Hempsted, Herts HP1 2TE Avon Green Laners 'Southlands', South Road, Timsbury, Bath, Avon BA3 1LD Tel: Rob - 0761 472734 or Simon - 0272 754398 * Breckland Land Rover Club Ltd. Wendy Chandler, 8 Acorn Road, North Walsham, Norfolk. NR28 0HA. Tel: 0692 404453 Buxton and District Land Rover Club. Mrs C. Ollerenshaw, 29 Dale Road, Buxton. SK17 6LN. Tel: 0298071558 * Cheltenham & Cotswolds Land Rover Club 1) Ian Wood, 21 Oldbury Road, Cheltenham Gloucestershire. Tel: 0242 230793 2) H. Legg, 287 Prestbury Road, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52 3DB Tel: 0242 580745 * Chiltern Vale Rover Owners Club Colin Argent, 21 Meadow Way, Codicote, Hitchin, Herts. SG4 8YL Tel: 0438 821581 * Cornwall & Devon Land Rover Club 1) Jean French, 5 Pinewood Close, Plympton, Plymouth, Devon. PL7 3DW. Tel: 0752 338279 2) M. Rolstone, 64 Sunneybanks Hatt, Saltash, Cronwall PL12 6SA Tel: 0752 846726 * Cumbrian Land Rover Club Peter Antiss, 11 Alder Close, Newton-With-Scales, Preston, Lancs. PR4 3TQ. Tel: 0772 685735 * Dorset Land Rover and Range Rover Owners Club. 1) Norman Legg, 199 King John Avenue, Bear Wood, Bournemouth, Dorset. BH11 9SA. 2) Brian Dart, 26 st Clements Road, Parkstone, Dorset. BH15 3PD East Devon Off-Road Club Peter Broom, Armidale, Fenny Bridges, Honiton. EX14 0BG Tel: 0404 850960 East Essex 4x4 Club c/o Lawling Avenue, Heybridge, Essex. CM9 7YD East Midlands Off Road Club Martyn Jacques, Woodstock, Gainsborough Road, Winthorpe, Newark, Notts. HG 24 2NN. Tel: 0636 79421 * East Northhants Land Rover Owners Club Dave Vaughan, 1 Woodavens Close, Northampton. NN4 9TX. Tel: 0604 763626 * Essex Land Rover Club David Bygrave, The Knoll, Bygrave Road, Ashwell, Nr Baldock, Herts. SG7 5RH. Tel: 046 274 2418 (evenings) Fosse & Watling land Rover Clubs Tel: 0455 848228/615731 Friendship 4x4 Romily J. A. Bradley, 35 Urwick Road, Romiley, Stockport, Cheshire. SK6 3JS Tel: 061 430 2609 Fyfield LRC Mike Sassoon, Broom Hills, Ongar Road, Fyfield, near Ongar, Essex. CM5 0RB Golding Barn 4x4 Golding Barn Estate, Small Dole, Near Upper Beeding, Sussex * Hants & Berks Rover Owners Gary Langton, 1 Hillside Court, 16 Solent road, Drayton, Portsmouth, Hants. PO6 1HH. Tel: 0705 388929 Hertfordshire Land Rover Fanatics Mick Fox, 143 Boundary Way, Garston, Watfoed, Herts. WD2 7SR. Tel: 0923 462753 Humberside Land Rover Club Ian Brimble 37 Oakslands Drive, Hessle, Humberside. HU13 0LT Tel: 0482 641260. Isle of Dogs FWD Club 1) Jon Dunning, 69 Taeping Street, Clippers Quay, Isle of Dogs, London E14 9UT Tel: 071 515 6453 2) Palmerston House, 60 Kensington Place, London W8 Tel: 071 229 0306 Isle of Wight 4x4 Club Mike Penketh, 75 Church Road, Wooton, Isle of Wight PO33 4PZ Invicta LRC Membership Secretary, 31 Mary Road, Deal, Kent CT14 9HW Tel: 0304 380958 Fax: 0304 361268 * Lancashire & Cheshire Rover Owners Club Ian Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Breighmet, Bolton. BL2 5NT Tel: 0204 396449 (Note: Same address as the Lighweight Club.) Lee Valley land Rover Owners Club 1) Harry Stalick, 24 Love lane, Chigwell, Essex IG8 8BB tel: 081 504 3873 2) Chris Poole, 3Tudor Way, Waltham Abbey, Essex EN9 1PU. Tel: 0922 714123 * Leicestershire & Rutland Land Rover Club M. J. Smith, 1 Yarwell Drive, Wigston Magna, Leicester. LE89 10F Tel: 0533 881041 * Linconshire Land Rover Club 1) Steve Wells, 6 Hall Farin Cottage, Binbrook, Lincon. LN3 6BW Tel: 0472 398019 2) Keith Martin, 11 Lincoln Road, Nocton, lincoln LN4 2AE Tel: 0472 398019 Liverpool LROC 17 Earl Road, Bootle, Liverpool L20 9BU. Tel: 051 922 3371 Midland Off-Road Club Bruce Harris, 34 Mayfield Road, Hurst Green, Halesowen B62 9QW Tel: 021 422 9465 * Midland Rover Owners Club John Blackwell, 14 matlock Close, Brownsover, Rugby, Warwickshire CV1 1LB Tel: 0788 569902 * Newcastle & Nantwitch Rover Owners Club Garry Thompson, 70 Cambridge Drive, Clayton, Newcastle, Staffs. ST5 3DQ. Tel: 0782 617224 * North East Rover Owners Club 1) Gary Campbell, 1 Hawthorn Road, Blyth, Northumberland NE24 3DT Tel: 0670 362256 2) A Timmins, North Lodge, Jesmond Dene Road, Jesmond Dene, Newcastle upon Tyne NE2 2EY tel: 091 281 1678 Northern Off-Road Club Beverley Bairstow, 14 Ailsa house, Fairgrove Green, Idle, Bradford, W. Yorks BD10 9ND Tel: 0274 610405 North Lakes 4x4 Club Geoff Tomlinson, Holme Lea, Quarry Field, Stockdalewath, Dalston, Carlisle CA5 7DP * Nottingham Land Rover Club Annie Bentley, 19 Manns Leys Cotgrave Nottingham. Tel: 0602 894282 * Peak & Dukeries Land Rover Club Alan Reaney, 96 Ridgeway Road, Gleadless, Sheffield. S12 2SY Tel: 0742 655108 * Pennine Land Rovers Club Ivor Hill, 2 Westbourne Road, Pontefract, W. Yorks WF 8 4JY Tel: 0977 707895 * Red Rose Land Rover Club B. L. Hart, 75 Coniston Road, Fulwood, Preston, Lancs. PR2 4AY. Tel: 0772 709391 Rochford & District LRO P. Fehily, 17 Plumberrow Mount Avenue, Hockley, Essex SS5 5AY Tel: 0702 206055 * Somerset & Wiltshire Rover Owners Club Martyn Bourne, 9 Borrowfield Square, Brunton, Somerset BA10 0HR South Downs Land Rover Club David Stevens, 32 Langley Green, Langley, Eastbourne BN23 6HY Tel: 0323 460513 Southend-on-Sea LROC Toni Perrott, c/o 14 Royal Mews, Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 1DB Southern Counties Off-Road Club Jane Dooley, 149 Slepe Crescent, Parkstone, Poole, Dorset BH12 4DL Tel: 0202734949 * Southern Rover Owners Club Tracey McCartney, 5 Regents Way, Crook Log, Bexleyheath, Kent. DA6 8BT. Tel: 081 301 5451 * Staffordshire & Shropshire Land Rover Club Vanessa Johnson, 4 Waltham House, Overend Street, West Bromwich, West Midlands. B70 6ER. Tel: 021 553 4070 Suffolk 4-Wheel Drive Club. Mrs Maureen Leys, 2 Thelnetham Road, Blo Norton, Diss, Norfolk IP22 2JQ. Surrey land Rover Club. Mike Boyd, 102 Easter Way, South Godstone, Surry RH9 8HH Twin Axel Club. Andrew Stirling, 4 Littleworth Cottages, Etherington Hill, Speldhurst, Kent TN3 0ND. Tel: 0892 862676 Viking FWD Club. Ian Hamilton, 21 Narston Avenue, South Wigsin, Leics. Tel: 0858 432 345 Wickford OR Club S. Fagioli, The Cottages Guest House, Beeches Road, Battlesbridge, Wickford, Essex Tel: 0268 764200 * Wye & Welsh Rover Owners Club Peter Slingerland, Old Bakery, The Square, Ruardean, Glostershire. GL17 9TJ. Tel: 0594 544058 * Yorkshire Rover Owners Club David Barker, Rivendell, 2 Huby Banks, North Yorks. LS17 0AH. Tel: 0423 734412 IRELAND ------- Isle of Man 4WD Club. B. P. Waring, 58 Groudle Road, Onachan, Isle of Man. Tel: 0624 627 826 Northern Ireland FWD Club. Ian Henderson, 12 Abbot View, Newtownards, Co. Down. BT23 3XT Tel: 0247 811 584 (evenings) WALES ----- Clwb Land Rover Gwynedd D. Hopkins, Bwthyn Bryntirion, Trawsfynydd, Gwynedd Tel: 0766 87604 Mid Wales Four Wheel Drive Club. Carol Tweedle, "llwyn", Harford, Llanwrda, Dyfed. SA19 8DS * North Wales Land Rover Club Dave Cuthbert, 25 Sunningdale Avenue, Colwyn Bay, Clwyd. LL29 6DF. Tel: 0492 534417 West Wales 4x4 Group Jennifer Barber, Trenaa, Beulah, Newcastle Emlyn, Dyfed SA 38 9QB Tel: 0239 810050 SCOTLAND -------- Ae 4x4 Club. Anne Smith, Closs Cottage, Closs, Boreland-by-Lockerbie, Dumfriesshire. DG11 2LQ Tel: 0576 6291 Buchan Off-Road Drivers' Club. Robert Farquhar, 44 Craigpark Place, Ellon, Aberdeenshire. AB41 9FG Tel: 0358 26668 Highland 4WD Club. Colin Stewart, Main Street, Newtonmore. PH20 1DA Tel: 054 03251 (daytime) * Scottish Land Rover Owners Club Alan Walker, 77 Albert Avenue, Crosshill, Glasgow. G42 8RA. Tel: 041 423 8671 Scottish Off Road Club. Bob Webster, 1 Hallyard Farm Cottages, Kirkliston. EH29 9DZ Tel: 031 333 4291 ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 00:39:08 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 01:32:22 +0059 (EDT) From: Randy Parker Subject: Re: Discovery Turbo-Diesel specs... To: OliverGr@aol.com Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410211052198183141@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 21 Oct 1994 OliverGr@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have the specs for the Turbo-Diesel version of the Discovery? > Performance? Mileage? Are there any hints on the horizon that it may be > brought to the US in the near future? Here's some quick specs on the TDi from the 4/94 "What Car?" (UK car mag): 4 cyl 8v, 2495cc, 111bhp 91 mph, 0-60mph 17.2 sec Touring MPG: 34.2 One (or both) of the books "Land Rover Discovery" (by James Taylor) or "The Land Rover Experience" by Tom Sheppard has full spec information on all the UK models. Recent messages here and conversations at the Bay State meet indicate that it is highly unlikely that the diesel will materialize here. The TDi *does* almost double your gas mileage, but it also brings with it a dismal acceleration (see above) which would NEVER go over in the U.S. > How long has the Discovery been produced in Europe? Since 1989, I believe. > Also, why in the world doesn't Rover send their long wheelbase Defenders > over here (US)? Thanks... Only 500 of the Defender 110's were brought over in the last few years, so they are quite the limited edition...some are available (2 are listed in the classifieds in the latest RoverLog), but you'll pay approx. $40 K. -- Randy Parker Brookline, MA 94 Discovery From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 20:10:11 1994 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 18:04:28 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, sinasohn@crl.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Status: RO >Uncle Roger looses his Rover.... >> >> Important! Important! >> >> When you pull your shafts out, make sure your Land Rover has blocks around > >> the wheels! Otherwise, it will go wandering off into a nearby field by >> itself! And a Land Rover is much to heavy to stop by yourself! >> >> I know this from experience! >> > >I'm trying to picture this... (ROFLMAO) >Roger pulls the half shafts, and is about to continue his repairs when the >wife calls him... He turns away from his work to answer and when he looks >back.... IT'S GONE!!! >OH GAWD... THE ROVERS GONE... Where did it go??? >He looks furtively in all directions until he spies it - nestled admidst the >assorted agricultural products in a nearby field... The Rover in the Clover. > >Oh man, it's too much to bear!!! > >Cheers.... > Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com > 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 > Gloversville > NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) Actually, what happened was this: I was parked in front of Scotty's shop which was located at the edge of a large, empty field. The nose of the Rover was pointed towards the field, and the ground was slightly sloped down towards it. Scotty told me how to pull out the shafts to check for twisting, and sent me to do it. (gotta learn somehow.) I set the parking brake, and (I think) even put it in gear. The first four bolts came out easily, but the last one seemed to be stuck good. I put my weight into it, and got it loose. As soon as I did, the Rover started moving. I jumped up and tried my darnedest to stop it, but it was just too big. It hit the edge of the field where there was a serious slope, and began picking up speed. There was nothing I could do, but stand there and watch it go. It finally came to rest in the middle of the field, where someone had dumped a bunch of paint. I went inside to get Scotty and find out what happened. He came out and started laughing. Apparently, the parking brake is connected to the transmission, which holds the car in place by making sure the wheels don't move. By loosening the shafts, I had disconnected the wheels from the transmission, allowing them to roll freely. Which they did. *Luckily* the simple solution was to engage 4wd and back it up using the front axles. But I learned my lesson good! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 20:10:03 1994 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 18:04:31 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Around here (San Francisco, California), Regular Unleaded (87 octane, usually, I think) runs anywhere from $1.20 to $1.40. Mid-grade and premium (89 and 92 octane?) goes up from there. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 20:10:01 1994 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 18:04:33 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO In california, we have about 35 cents in taxes per gallon, out of $1.20 -up. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 01:50:18 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 02:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ian Stuart offers... > Here's another thought -- what's the cost of fuel? > > when we hit 2 quid a gallon (imp), we changed to litres.... > > Around my area, Unleaded petrol price = Diesel price = 50p/l (+/- 3p). > anyone want to offer comparitiver prices? > OK... Central/Eastern New York State..(USA) Unleaded Petrol - $1.15/gallon Diesel - $1.28/gallon Interestingly enough.. when I was in Virginia recently (about 600 miles south of my location), diesel was going for $1.06/gallon. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 18:49:26 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:13:13 GMT-0930 Subject: Fuel Consumption Priority: normal Status: RO In reply to David B, my figures are in imperial gallons To repeat: Discovery V8i, 5 speed: Around town: 18 imp. miles/gall; (18.5 ltrs/100km) Country trip loaded with gear: 23 to 27 imp mile/gallon Country trip loaded plus off road trailer: average 19 imperial miles/gallon hope this clarifies things! I was just in the USA. You guys don't know what expensive petrol is all about! You pay only the equivalent of about 40 cents Australian per litre! We pay between 70 - 80 cents Aus per litre! Let alone what the poor old Brits pay! Its about double what we pay! (I was just there to) regards, Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 23 18:55:15 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:19:54 GMT-0930 Subject: Dual Batteries in the Discovery Priority: normal Status: RO I haven't fitted a dual battery system to my V8i yet, but I have had a close look at it. There appear to be two alternatives. 1) Cut the inlet pipe off the air cleaner housing, move the power steering reserviour and that round vaccuum thing. Insert a plate for the battery. (I know one person whose done this.) You can't play with the air inlet system too much, as the electronics is expecting the air to be coming in at a certain wavelength. Any mods to the air intake system, e.g. snorkel, must conform to the required wavelength. That's got a bit off the subject 2) Throw out the windscreen washer bottle, put a battery there. I just thought, USA is left hand drive. That might stuff up my ponderings. Maybe not! Hope this helps regards Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 07:40:28 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:23:43 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Baloney Meets DaNige To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, denis@oswego.oswego.edu, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Friday night I finally got to meet Russ Dushin. We chose the Mason Jar in Mahwah NJ for the get together. I arrived a little early and watched the cars going by on 202 until I noticed the distincitve pattern of early Series IIA headlights approaching in the distance. It was a rare sight for me and good to see, although the headlights in the restaurant were rather more interesting 8-O. The Rover pulls in and Nigel hops... er.. Russ hops out and offers greetings. We give Nigel a good inspection, revealing that he is a very solid truck with good frame and side windowless hardtop (the first US 88 I have seen without side windows). Russ has installed a neat setup of boards across the back cargo area flush with the body cappings. It gives an area of storage hidden from prying eyes and by exending it over the front passenger seat you could sleep on it. He also has one of the few tailgate/liftgate assemblies I have seen in the US. His 16" wheels & road tires should give him more comfortable highway cruising than my own 88 with 15"s will provide. Russ is very proud of Nigel and rightly so. We went inside, and after being distracted by the hostess (Mmmmmmmm!!!!!), sat down & ordered dinner. And I got to know Russ. The Russ I imagined was short, a little roly poly, had dark hair, and spoke quickly (sorry Russ). Russ is none of those things. He's about 5' 10" (I'm only giving you this because I always try to draw a picture of my fellow netters, and they are always way off base), 152lb, with blond hair and kind of Scandanavian features. And very articulate with a warm easy going sense of humor (boy, was I off base). If anything you see Russ post seems off the wall, it's always meant in fun or in a positive manner. It was fun hear his experiences about first Rovers and getting your first Stinky Finger in a Rover and all the other related stuff that would normally bore anyone else to tears. I envied his experience of growing up with Rovers and encouraged him to write his experiences up for the net if not for LRW. You all would enjoy them I'm sure. He also likes the babes, which is more than I can say for some of my male co-workers (and those that do don't like to discuss the subject). Fortunately, one of my female co-workers also likes the babes, so at least I have one person I work with that shares my likes that I can compare notes with :-). Hearing about his leaky diff problems made me cringe, although we both kept getting distracted by the steady stream of Babes strolling past the window on their way in and out (no, not THAT kind of in and out, Mr. Dirty Diesel Denis). I haven't been to this place in years but boy has it changed. Russ brought along some photos of the OVLR birthday party. Dixon and the rest don't go wading. They go SNORKLEING!!! Talk about deep stuff. I don't consider him a wimp for showing up in his BMW. I consider him a rather sane and prudent individual (Land Rover will import a $15,000 90 TDI before I'll bring my 109 on one of their mud runs). We discussed areas we could go 4 wheeling locally and decided that we should get together in the near future and do something. At the end of the evening Russ wanted to continue to hang out in the bar area (and from the looks of the other patrons, it seemed like a pretty attractive idea). Unfortunately, I had gotten some sort of object in one eye the day before and it was still there. Between the irritation and the bloodshot-half open look I must have presented, I decided to pass (Whatever it was, it worked it's way out Saturday night). I do want to do some hanging in that place with him again in the future, as I think Russ would be a pretty good babe magnet, and since he's already ATTACHED, I might have a good shot at picking up some scraps. We then parted ways, taillamps dissapearing into the night, to look forward to our next outing in the future. I'm sure it will be interesting. More Baloney from you know who. maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 08:42:14 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:07:40 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Touring Rovers Status: RO Had a surprise over the weekend...Eberhard Seipelt and his wife Dagmar and their two young children from Innsbruck, Austria are touring the US in their '88 diesel 110 long (and how they got my name I didn't really understand). An English teacher on sabatical, they are here for several months or "...'till the money runs out...." They have been to Maine, Vermont, the Adirondacks, Shenandoah and are working their way down the east coast and across the southern tier of states, staying with the warmer climes. I have also given the names of some of the hooligans on this list to them, so you might get a call from them....they are really wonderful people. Tonight at 8 on TLC: I actually get to appear with my Rover on "Archaeology"...I'm the one with the clipboard in the background...tonight it's the "Philistines". *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 02:59:39 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: LRO@TEAM.NET Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:22:54 GMT-0930 Subject: Discovery Trailer Lights Indicator Priority: normal Status: RO Recently there has been a lot of talk about the Discovery and its post warranty problems. You are just unaware that Land Rover spent millions of pounds to accurately engineer inbuilt redundancy into the Discovery to the nth degree, so that certain items WILL fail within 24 hours of the expiration of the warranty! It is a marvel of modern engineering ability to be so accurate. Its a shame that they only spent 50 quid to get the panels assembled right! JUST KIDDING!!! My turn with trailer indicator light has never worked properly. It works intermittently, when it wants to. Does anyone have the trailer plug connections for the Discovery? Maybe there is a special wiring pattern for the trailer plug, so the dashboard "trailer" light worls? Keep Rovering. Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 09:23:54 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:11:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Baloney Meets DaNige To: maloney Cc: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, LRO@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Land Rovers,Land Rovers,Land Rovers, That's all we ever hear about..... then Bill meets Russell and we *finally* get to hear about something different for a change...*women* and Land Rovers....now that's more like it! (Sorry,Teriann,sorry,Jan1,sorry,Jan2) It is lucky for both these lads that the landrovers leak so badly...otherwise they would be up to their respective necks in DROOL... I've met 'em both,folks..and you would not believe..... And Bill's eye? That's where one of those "babes"poked him! '-( steve..... (sorry bill, you asked for it....) ;-) "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 09:39:19 1994 To: lro@team.net From: "Jan Beckwith" Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:30:29 +0700 Subject: Series I Priority: normal Status: RO Thanks everyone for the comments and advice on the Series I we went to look at near Boise, ID. It's pretty rusty, but the hard top and doors are okay. It has a tow bar on front, but all 4 tires were flat. No amount of pumping had any effect. So we are going to take all 4 tires off our Rover and go back in a couple of weeks and try to tow it home that way. Any warnings? Actually, Granville, I think we are better off for storage now than we were when we had 4 acres in Caldwell. Now we have a nice backyard with a concrete trailer storage pad-which will do just fine for LR storage. The serial # is 16135989. I have the list somewhere at home to figure the dates. She said it was a '52. It has been painted "yellow" of all things, but I can see the green underneath. Next weekend I start work on mine. So I am sure I will be asking lots of advice. I plan to start by lifting the hood and staring. If nothing else I can start with the carburetor. I think I will take a lot of photos with my close-up lens. Anyway, thanks again. Jan ---------------------------------------------------------- Jan Beckwith,Pharm.D. beckjan@elixir.isu.edu Idaho Drug Information Service (208) 236-4689 Campus Box 8092 FAX (208) 236-4687 Pocatello, ID 83209 Idaho State University ----------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 10:18:57 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:04:37 -0600 From: "Peter C. Parsons" To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Disco 'Dealer Add-ons' Status: RO After much soul-searching, several sleepless nights, and 3 coin tosses, I have opted to buy a Discovery, instead of a Defender (family considerations). I am now on the waiting list in Denver, CO USA. for a '94 or '95 Disco. While waiting, I am looking over a glossy folder of 'dealer add-ons' to the Disco. Any recent Disco purchasers in the U.S. want to chime in on good / bad 'goodies' to add. I would be interested in what you added, and how much you were charged for each item. Also can things like the wrap-around brush-bars be purchased somewhere other than the dealer for a better price? What about the C.D. changer? The dealer here is asking $895 for the 6 disk changer, which seems REAL steep. Thanks in advance for the info. -Rover fanatic 'on the waiting list' Peter C. Parsons, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pinpoint Solutions, Inc phone: (303)444-7257 523 Arkansas Mtn Rd. fax: (303)444-4966 (NEW fax Number) Boulder, CO 80302 email: pparsons@ppsol.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 10:45:54 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: lro & military Land Rovers To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 15:37:29 GMT Status: RO By and large I have to agre with Dixon.Lro's ignoring of "foreign" clubs does not fit in with the word "International" in the title. They also seem to be continuing the old policy of "look what we've *had done* to our vehicle,and here's where you can get it done" sort of thing. They have a perfectly good technical writer in R.Ivins,and yet do not seem to use him.Instead we seem to have Mr Massey detailing????? jobs to do on vehicles,but never troubleshooting (the Nov issue is on how to take off the power steering unit on your Range Rover,which incudes the timeworn phrase"replacement is the reverse........Doesnt tell you how to mend it,though.) Bob Morrison has,IMO,a problem.Simply that the Armed Forces are using less Land Rovers than previously.All the variety that used to exist is rapidly dissappearing.The Lightweight has all but gone, the 101 is on its way out,and the S111 ambulance ditto.So what to write *about*?I agree its a crying shame,I enjoyed his stuff as well as the next bloke. Also,I wouldnt knock the adverts too much either.They *do* tend to be an indicator of confidence in the publication(after all who is going to advertise in a mag no-one reads?)LRW has a long way to go in this respect,as yet,particularly the private ads,yet I like its content.BUT...ads pay money.Having said all this,I found the Nov issue an interesting read(I got mine on the very day that the previous issue said I should).Had to go and have a lie down! Shock,you know. I had high hopes of the assistant editor,after he got the S111,and indicated that he was going to get his hands mucky.Fat chance.Nips it into a garage to have stuff checked over that most of us would do ourselves.Now talking about an auto gearbox?On a S111?What,I ask you, the hell *for*? The bottom line,as far as I am concerned,is this.I want more HANDS ON, technical items,complete wiv 'ints and tipses,for those of us who grovel underneath our charges.I *dont* want to know where I can pay some "mechanic" an exhorbitant sum to do it for me,probably badly. If I had that sort of money I probably wouldnt have bough the old 11A in the first place.I refuse to beleive I'm unique,or even unusual in this respect.Note,please "in this respect":-) And I'm FED UP with looking at other folks holiday snaps.One article per issue is surely enough. LRO management will surely find that the cow cannot be milked for long without running dry.So its in their own interests to wake up their ideas. Mind you,LRW take note,I cant see much relevance in an article on hot air ballooning either.Down to earth,Entwistle.Get back under thy Lightweight,lad. OK,I've bored you enough, Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 12:31:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Fuel consumption From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 09:01:55 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LANDROVER@delphi.com writes: > Unleaded Petrol - $1.15/gallon The price up here bounces about quite a bit, but on average we pay 60 cents a litre for super unleaded (leaded fuel has been unavailable in Canada for years). This works out to (my math is probably a mess): $2.268 /USgal, $2.724/gal, US$1.65/USgal (at current exchange rate of 73 cents to the dollar, so while a US$1.65 seems cheap, if our $ goes up, so does it...) For some Land Rover stuff, The Weber is all attached with the exception of adjusting the linkage (Weber throtle sits much higher than the Solex). The adapter plate I scrounged had the nice hole in it for the brake booster, which I don't have, so the one-way vaccuum valve off of a TR-7 booster system will ensure that air does not flow into the engine. The brakes are all back together (some might recall the new master from Marseyside was siezed) and only require a little help to get bled. We are getting close to getting the little earth pig ready for battle... To bad it wasn't ready last weekend. The annual OVLR frame oiler saw a dozen Land Rovers get thoroughly coated with oil. Dale was bribed to do four vehicles. His own, a mid sixties Falcon, a RHD VW camper which was the first off the production line (for that style. This one dated from the early sixties sometime and had been around the world basically. Dale was poking Sahara sand out of the sills.), and some more modern mess besides his own. I couldn't bribe Dale to do the big green beastie... :-( However, this year for your $25 you got lunch and the opportunity to throw your vehicle up on one of two ramps and with spray gun, make sure that your frame will continue to drip in a Canadian -40c February night. The difference this makes to frame longevity cannot be over stated. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 12:07:14 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: genuine parts poster child! To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1455 Status: RO I became the "Land Rover Genuine Parts" poster child last saturday, oh to shame. Luke (S.F. lad, '72 ser III) and I went down to Hollister Hills off-road park to Rover it up. Nice place, lots of trails; all the trails are marked like ski runs (e.g. green circles - black diamonds), and it's only $4 all day- the tread lightly alternative. Anyway, we are cruising some trecherous terrain: steep hill climbs with axle twisters up the #$*?!. I've never seen an 88" lift a tire before! Anyway, my '69 rover has the Scotty conversion to a Chevy 250ci I6. The major modification in this conversion is with the cooling system. The radiator is a big cross flow jobber moved up to the front panel, with a remote fan. Well all this twisting sent the fan through the radiator. It took dime-sized chunks out of about 8 tubes. BUMMER!! Try getting a radiator shop in Hollister on a saturday afternoon! So I just went to town, got some "GB Weld" putty stuff and heavy duty radiator sealer. Got back to the car and yanked out the radiator, sealed the holes (the "weld" stuff is pretty cool) and crimped off the cut tubes with needle nose pliars. Back in the truck, filled the rad. with the sealer stuff and I was back in action, <2 hours. All was O.K. for the 80 mile drive home too. The good news is that the thing got me home! I think I'll take one of the fan spacers out after replacing the radiator. Morgan Hannford '69 IIA 88 Berkeley, CA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 12:03:58 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 12:55:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Re: Disco 'Dealer Add-ons' To: "Peter C. Parsons" Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410241504.JAA06643@WAVE.ppsol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 750 Status: RO On Mon, 24 Oct 1994, Peter C. Parsons wrote: > > While waiting, I am looking over a glossy folder of 'dealer > add-ons' to the Disco. Any recent Disco purchasers in the U.S. > want to chime in on good / bad 'goodies' to add. All of the accessories can be purchased from any of the suppliers listed in the FAQ at a much lower cost, even for original equipment. Although I was willing to pay full price for the Land Rover, I was not willing to add insult to injury by buying accessories way-overpriced by the the dealer. Rovers North delivered my floormats, filters and shop manual in two days. Atlantic-British sells exterior accessories in well-priced packages. Harry '94 Discovery P.S. Get the 5-speed if you can. We love ours. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 12:48:52 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:39:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: GuyEVER@aol.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Range Rover cooling fan Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Dear Guy: Regarding your message on the British Cars list: > >I have a 1988 Range Rover and am wondering if I have a cooling fan problem >ie. the clutch does not disengage the fan at idle with a cold engine (or at >all as far as I can tell). Some clutches disengage only at higher RPM others >do not engage until the engine temperature reaches a certain point. I'm not >sure what the Range Rover is supposed to do. Anybody's help would be >appreciated. >Thanks, >Guy Everhart > I am posting your query to the Land-Rover Owners list, as there are numerous Range Rover experts on the list who will be able to help you. You should join the list! It's great fun and very helpful. On the list, you will find that there are actually Range Rover owners who recognize that this is a fancy Land-Rover, not just a rugged car. To get information about how to subscribe, post the message "info lro-digest" to the e-mail address: To those on the list who can give guy some help, post replies to: Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 13:58:04 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:55:52 -0800 To: lro@stratus.com From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: Dormobiles Status: RO Hello all, I'm not a Land Rover Owner but may be soon. Let me provide a short recap: in the sept. Hemmings, a man named Mike Smith, who runs/owns East Coast Land Rover in Camden Maine had an ad that mentioned a Dormobile for sale as well as a general we sell Land Rovers message. As no price was listed and I wasn't familiar with his company, I made an exploratory call. He told me he had two Dormobiles for sale---- 1) pastel green, exterior is very nice, interior also very good, it seems to have all the pieces. Pics are very nice but only only shot of the engine; old, rusty looking but ??? Supposed to run great, burn no oil, cruise at 65, get 20 mpg !!!? Has OD. rebuilt on military chassis in 1988. Missing propane tanks for stove but will be provided somehow before I embark on a Me to Ca trip. 2) grey, engine just rebuilt, no OD; paint, chassis and body work not as nice as green one, however at some level it has all the dormobile parts. I'm vague because I haven't seen photos and can't tell what if anything is missing. green asking, 15K grey, asking 10K I have talked to Myles Murphy, Jeff Aaronson, and Ted Howard about the vehicles. Jeff is going to look at them for me and for a piece he's writing for the rovers north newletter (he's the ed). For money, Ted is going to check out the engine and drive train. I hope to get him to do both. I am seriously considering one or the other as a camper, get out of town vehicle. I don't NEED it, don't need a truck or plain 109 to haul things or people. Have ENGLISH sports car for fun, mazda for groceries, ride bikes every where in town. I am very intigued by the facilities for sleeping, eating and then going. I really like the work on it yourself aspect of rovers. the design is cool in a retro, non-aerodynamic way, too. If anyone or all of you can help me out with inspections, things to ask, things to look for, ideas on prices, opinions of peoples opinions, let me know either personally or by posting here. I have pics on my mac that might be downloaded by others by FTP. If you have that capability and can view JPG files, let me know by email and I will try to accomodate you. I hesitate to post the address to the list without knowing some kind of demand. Too much can slow my computer down. Thanks, happy rovering John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me 916 752 8520 University of Calif Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu Davis, CA or leave me alone, your choice. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 14:23:33 1994 To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re:lro & military lrs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:00:28 CDT." Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 12:12:43 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Dixon slimes, > So we will see more Defender, Disco, Range Rover shit. How nice. > I am sure the yuppies will be delighted not to read about old > junkers still on the road. and then adds > PPS. When you write LRO, convey my regards & my statement that the > big green beastie & little earth pig will both outlast the > current 90's and Discos that them seem so horny about. I > wouldn't tell them that I'll have more fun that the average 90 > owner. It might upset them, or just have them adjust their > blinders a little more. Eventually they will pull them so > tight, they may blow a head gasket and see the light. OK, knucklehead the gloves are off and the flame thrower is on full. Ya know jealousy is a terrible thing, it makes complete jerks of seemingly normal Land Rover enthusiasts. I sold my Ser lll 88 and my Ser ll 109 to buy a DEFENDER 90 and haven't looked back once. All the parts that really matter on a Land Rover, bodywork, frame, drivetrain etc., are the same or better than on your earth pig thing and there is no reason not to expect it to last as long as any other Land Rover ever made. The fact that some (most) can't afford one is irrelevant. As for myself and the other two D90 owners I know here in Portland, we use ours as God intended, in the muck. I didn't buy the thing to look at it in the garage and wipe it with a diaper, I use it. And it goes a lot farther, and with less fuss, than any of the older Land Rovers around here. I would put it up against any Series truck around in any terrain or mud hole you pick and I'll go farther. That's why Land Rover makes D90's and not Series trucks anymore, because thay are better. Sure they can't go in water as deep as an old Series diesel, but how often is that really the case, and it's still hard on the vehicle. Look at all the people on the net constantly fixing starters and generators/alternators that have been drowned in mud too many times. And of course the TDi Defenders can go anywhere the Series trucks can, I was referencing the petrol N.A. spec D90's I'm sure there are plenty of yuppie D90 and Discovery owners whose trucks will never see dirt under the tires, but I would venture that none who are on this list fall into that catagory. And the same holds true for the Range Rover folks on this list, most use thier rigs regularly off road. I enjoyed working on my old rig, and I'll probably buy another just to have something to tinker with,as that is a major fun part of owning an older one, working on it. There isn't much of that on the new ones. As for LRO, I agree they suck. But, the market has changed, out with the old in with the new and all that crap. They have to cater to the majority, and the majority in this case are those that own the newer vehicles. That's who the advertisers target, and make no mistake, they are the ones paying the bills keeping the rag afloat, not us subscribers. Yeah the Series folk are dropping off, but they make up for it with new Defender/Disco owners. As for tech articles, at this point there is enough material out there in the form of books and back issues of the magazine fix most anything on the Series vehicles. Why go over old ground explaining how to's when it's already been covered in many places before. Watch those sweeping statements, many on this list are part of them. I enjoy reading about old Rover's and new ones. I think there is room enough for all off us here. Flame off. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 Defender 90 90 Range Rover From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 17:53:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Baloney Meets DaNige From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 15:30:48 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) writes: > Russ brought along some photos of the OVLR birthday party. Dixon and the > rest don't go wading. They go SNORKLEING!!! Talk about deep stuff. I don't > consider him a wimp for showing up in his BMW. I consider him a rather sane > and prudent individual (Land Rover will import a $15,000 90 TDI before I'll > bring my 109 on one of their mud runs). Next year we will have a graduated system of trails, from real ones who can afford to tow the vehicle home after it has been fished out or a deep swamp, to something more stable and easier on those vehicles where the owner would be committed if he tried something like that with a nice LR. Rgds, Dixon PS. I seem to recall you had me figured for being in my mid 50's :-) PPS. Hmmm, Babes... Maybe there should be some large scale LR maneouvres in your neck of the woods... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 18:57:59 1994 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:51:39 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@team.net, morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: genuine parts poster child! X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1322 Status: RO > Well all this twisting sent the fan through the radiator. > Morgan Hannford > '69 IIA 88 > Berkeley, CA Military Rovers have a link between the frame and the bell housing that keeps the engine from moving foward. It prevents just this problem and also makes the E-brake work better. Get one. If you can't find the geuine parts it's a fairly easy fab job. Mine is made from a lenth of 5/16-24 threaded rod (with a clevis on one end) that goes through the cross member. You will need to drill through both walls of the cross member in the center, vertically, just in line with where the mounting holes in the bell-housing are. The rod is long enough to allow adjustment. A piece of heavy angle iron drilled to match the two tapped holes in a vertical pattern on left side of the bell-housing. These holes are where the genuine part bolts to. A few links of 5/16 chain and a 5/16 anchor shackle connect the clevis (pin) to a hole in the lower end of the angle iron. Ajust so there is slight tension pulling the engine/trans rearward and lock with two nuts or nyloc nut. A hefty 5/16 flat washer transfering the tension to the frame cross member is a good idea. The chain is to allow a flexible but secure restraint that will not transfer engine vibrations into the chassis. Regards, Bill G. Spell checked by Lucas From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 19:47:30 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Baloney Meets DaNige To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) (maloney) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 20:42:07 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "maloney" at Oct 24, 94 8:23 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Folks- this may well be considered outside the realm of lro topics, but since the message was posted publically I feel compelled to reply in public as well. Thus-there is a banter alert for the next 100 or so lines.... Bill recounts: > The Rover pulls in and Nigel hops... er.. Russ hops out and offers greetings. > We give Nigel a good inspection, revealing that he is a very solid truck with > good frame and side windowless hardtop (the first US 88 I have seen without > side windows). Russ has installed a neat setup of boards across the back > cargo area flush with the body cappings. It gives an area of storage hidden > from prying eyes and by exending it over the front passenger seat you could > sleep on it. He also has one of the few tailgate/liftgate assemblies I have > seen in the US. His 16" wheels & road tires should give him more comfortable > highway cruising than my own 88 with 15"s will provide. Russ is very proud > of Nigel and rightly so. Ah yes, he is a sight to behold, isn't he? That Nige. Whatta fella. I'll write up a little ditty on the rear bed as soon as I get a chance to test it out. > sat down & ordered dinner. And I got to know Russ. The Russ I imagined was > short, a little roly poly, had dark hair, and spoke quickly (sorry Russ). > Russ is none of those things. He's about 5' 10" (I'm only giving you this > because I always try to draw a picture of my fellow netters, and they are > always way off base), 152lb, with blond hair and kind of Scandanavian > features. And very articulate with a warm easy going sense of humor (boy, > was I off base). If anything you see Russ post seems off the wall, it's > always meant in fun or in a positive manner. Wow, I just gained nearly 20 lbs and changed my ancestry. Just yer basic german mutt with some english, irish, french, and maybe even prussian on the side. > He also likes the babes, which is more than I can say for some of my male > co-workers (and those that do don't like to discuss the subject). > Fortunately, one of my female co-workers also likes the babes, so at least I > have one person I work with that shares my likes that I can compare notes > with :-). Uh, oh. There you've done it. We're in trouble now. WOMEN, their called, and yes, I like 'em. So does Nigel (he's been mumbling the words "Lulu" whenever I shut him down). > We discussed areas we could go 4 wheeling locally and decided that we should > get together in the near future and do something. and this would be fun.....let's do it sooner rather than later. > At the end of the evening Russ wanted to continue to hang out in the bar area > (and from the looks of the other patrons, it seemed like a pretty attractive > idea). Unfortunately, I had gotten some sort of object in one eye the day > before and it was still there. Between the irritation and the bloodshot-half > open look I must have presented, I decided to pass (Whatever it was, it > worked it's way out Saturday night). I do want to do some hanging in that > place with him again in the future, as I think Russ would be a pretty good > babe magnet, and since he's already ATTACHED, I might have a good shot at > picking up some scraps. Oh, c'mon.....all I really wanted was another pint and a chance to see your neck snap off! And as for that eye stuff, I can verify for Steve that it was, in fact, your own thumb that you poked in there as some-er, ah-women walked by. cheers, rd/nigel (and it's Nigel that's the ...woman magnet). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 21:08:10 1994 Date: 24 Oct 94 21:58:19 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: lro & military Land Rovers plus 2 questions Status: RO Dixon Kenner writes about LRO: > So we will see more Defender, Disco, Range Rover shit. How nice. > I am sure the yuppies will be delighted not to read about old > junkers still on the road. Ouch! I for one enjoy reading about the Series x Land Rovers as much as the more recent models. I even enjoy reading all the technical stuff about those venerable older workhorses that comes to me on the digest, even though most of it doesn't apply to my Land Rover some of that experience does "rub off" and is appreciated. I would also like to see more written about the military Land Rovers (I'm looking forward to getting a copy of James Taylor and Bob Morrison's new book Modern Military Land Rovers, 1971-94) as I have had some fair amount of experience with U.S. military vehicles. Since I do like to read about the "old junkers" I am glad to see it confirmed that I am not a yuppie . BTW this should NOT be taken as a defense of LRO. Now that the local bookstore gets LRW I don't care if LRO drops off the face of this bloody earth. > > ...outlast the current 90's and Discos that them seem so horny about. > Yeah, I know, they don't make'em like they used to. But I'll muddle along with my contemporary Land Rover anyways. With good maintenance and some periodic restoration it should manage to last long enough. Actually this whole business has made me interested in the possibility of getting one of those "old junkers". 'Nuff said. Question 1: When was the BMW purchase of Land Rover actually finalized and takeover effected? Question 2: Is there anyone out there aware of Land Rover activity in the Southern California area? (Yuppies are encouraged to reply, EOQ.) There was a British car show at the Santa Monica airport on Oct. 23 but my best friend unfortunately chose this day to get married. If I hadn't been the best man I might not have made it the wedding . Treading (Not So) Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 Yuppie Wagon P.S. No hard feelings but I had to have my say. I'm funny that way. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 05:13:28 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re:lro & military lrs To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com (Mike Fredette) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 10:02:50 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410241912.AA09783@pdx242.intel.com>; from "Mike Fredette" at Oct 24, 94 12:12 pm Status: RO Mike, I suggest that you,yourself,are guilty of,if not sweeping statements, at least of a sweeping assumption.That is,that owners/users of the modern product are in the majority.If you consider that Land Rover themselves state that 70% of *all* Land Rovers produced are still in use,this is patently untrue.Consider also,that Land Rovers advert when the "Defender" was introduced,made a great deal of the fact that the old ones were still going strong(I have the full page ad from "The Indepentant" newspaper,28th Sep 1990 pinned up on my office wall). Over here,the V8 90 SUV is not considered a serious prospect by many, I'm afraid,since it would be of limited use on the farm,or as a working vehicle.As an aside,if you point anyone over here at a "Defender" and ask him/her what the vehicle is,you will get a pitying look,and the answer willl be "Its a Land Rover,of course".Same as if you asked him the same question with a S1 in your sights. As for ability,of course the coil sprung machine is more agile,it would be a complete failure otherwise,BUT,when you come to rebush it,I'd rather have my parts bills than yours! As for LRO,it is busy ignoring the wants of the owners of older Rovers. I think we *all* want a fair crack of the whip,but rest assured,its success or failure depends on its domestic market.And that is us! Please,please,do not make the assumption that the Land Rover scene exists as it is seen from the USA.It doesnt.Any more than the reverse is true from here.The 90 you have is not sold on the home market simply because there is no demand.And Dixon is right,I'm afraid.Given his conditions,and ours,the modern chassis just dont last as long.There is some *very* funny steel about.There are already articles on putting new rear ends on young 90 and 110 models.Not for nothing was the phrase "British Racing Rust"coined!If there are two things our climate is famous for its the ability to rust,and the incidence of arthritis. Perhaps the latter caused by the attempts to combat the former. Finally,I have *never* agreed with the maxim "the old giveth way to the new".There is no reason on this earth why the old cannot co-exist with the new in perfect harmony.IMO the only time anything ever invented is obsolete,is when,a)The materials no longer exist to build it,or,b)Having built it conditions no longer exist where it can be used, like a windmill on a windless planet.Untill one or the other of these conditions apply its still viable. This is *not* intended to be a flame,rather more a bucket of warm water, but I must say I am,by and large,in sympathy with Dixon's views. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 06:57:25 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 07:44:20 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Re: Baloney Meets DaNige To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, LRO@stratus.com, dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Content-Type: Text Status: RO An anonymous person wrote me: >> So, you finally met Russel... he was a bit quiet at first when we were off-roading at the OVLR birthday bash but after realizing we were all total fools, idiots and lunatics he loosened up a bit... >> It must have been the concussion he got from getting bounced around the inside of his host's Land Rover :-). And Russ wrote: >> Wow, I just gained nearly 20 lbs and changed my ancestry. Just yer basic german mutt with some english, irish, french, and maybe even prussian on the side. >> Sorry Russ. Whenever I meet someone who is built like me, if the topic of weight comes up, they invariably turn out to be 20 lbs heavier. We appear to be the exact same weight. --------------------------------------------- Just to make sure this message is not just Banter... This past weekend I replaced the hardtop on my 88. I had separated the top skin from the side panels when I removed it last spring for ease of removal with a minimum of people and storage reasons. I must admit it is a bit of a hassle getting everything lined up. I can't decide if it was worth the effort to break it down, then reassemble. One thing I discovered this summer when visiting Rich Ziegler in VT was that the brackets on my windshield were bent, shifting the windshield a full 1" to the left. I rebent the brackets bringing it almost back to center and now the window seals fit much better. After I removed the interior rear view mirror, I thought about replacing it with a new one as the reflective backing was flaking on the inside. My inadvertantly sitting on it breaking the glass made the decision a lot easier (No Steve, I didn't get any glass in the a..). This fall the removal seemed to take a lot longer than usual, but then it could be due to the late start in the day after doing my folk's Volvo's water pump & timing belt. What a long day. The new window tracks were a pleasure to look at (no more green primortial dried soup locking the windows in place) and made me mind the return of the hard top a little less. Re: Ben Smith: I saw his dad yesterday and Ben made it out to CA in 3 days. It looks like he's settled on a 2 bedroom with 2 car garage for $475/mo (untouchable in these parts for less than $1100). He's in orientation training in San Diego now and we should be hearing from him again shortly. Oh, his starter is working again. I think it may be due to the low humidity out there allowing the armature to dry out. Ben thought it might be due to the embarrassment his Rover suffered bein towed out there causing it to repair itself. Enough Baloney for now maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 24 21:52:57 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: LRO late again. To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 12:47:58 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi all, October LRO arrived yesterday, at last, any way, me and my brother had an idea as to why it is late, the 90 compitition, as it would cost LRO bucket loads if some one from America, or Australia if they won it, I presume that LRO would ship it to the winner, or is this scraping the bottum of the bucket? ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 09:47:39 1994 To: Mike Rooth Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: lro & new lrs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:02:50 GMT." <9410251002.AA20750@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 07:41:08 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Mike, Oh so you want some too eh? Just kidiing, flames are off, but I would like to splain a few points. >I suggest that you,yourself,are guilty of,if not sweeping statements, >at least of a sweeping assumption. Of course I am, but I believe in demonstrating the absurd by being absurd. And Dixon's statement "So we will see more Defender, Disco, Range Rover shit. How nice. I am sure the yuppies will be delighted not to read about old junkers still on the road." , which seems to imply that the newer vehicles are somehow less than true Land Rovers and their owners are simply image seeking yuppies, is ABSURD! And his statment that "I wouldn't tell them that I'll have more fun that the average 90 owner." , that he and owners of Series vehicles somehow had a monopoly on fun is also a bit silly. As for the V8 Defenders in the homeland, I'm in agreement with you, no market for it at the price of petrol you folks are forced to pay. But in the US, if you want a Defender, you can have any engine you want, as long as it's a V8. If the Tdi were available it would sell, unfortunately, it appears that it never will make it to these shores thanks to the clean air folk. As I said at the end of my little diatribe, I believe that there is PLENTY of room for all of us out there, both the Series folk and the newer vehicle owners. I love the older trucks, as I said, and love reading about them, and will own another one. I just felt it a bit narrow to suggest that we're a cut below a true Land Rover owner. I also didn't mean to imply, as Russell pointed out, that the only reason people buy Series vehicles is that they can't afford the new ones. Sorry to give that impression. I realize that LRO is aimed at the domestic UK market, the fact that there there are a few hundred, maybe a thousand tops, international subscribers is, I'm sure, totally incedental to them. They are, I agree, cutting their own throats by ignoring the older trucks, but as I said, it would appear that the majority of new Land Rover OWNERS are buying newer rather than Series vehicles. I stand corrected if untrue, but it looks like the Series vehicles TEND I say TEND to circulated amongst those that have already owned them. At least that is mostly the case here. Again I stand corrected if off base. Didn't mean to upset you old man, terribly sorry, a thousand pardons. But, I'm just as much a LAND ROVER OWNER with a 94 DEFENDER as any with a 54 SERIES l. And DAMN PROUD of it. semi-humbly yours Mike Fredette From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 10:11:22 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Rangey diffs..... To: bill maloney Cc: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Here's one for the books...... Unless we have five front diffs for a Range rover,we have discovered a problem when converting a series 2a to 3.54 final drives.....the Rangey diffs fit the 2-2a housings and axels as we all know....but the fill plug on the rear of a Rangey must be in the axle like the front of a 2a.....if you fit the 3.54 to the rear of a 2a...you ain't got no fill plug.....ooops! we filled it through the breather with the specified amount of oil.....everything will be fine if the thing dosen't leak......are we seeing a problem developing here?.....I will weld a fitting on the housing to fill and check the lube.....but is there a better way to do this?...I thought about using the old 4.7 carrier and seting up the 3.54's in that.... Also...why no saftey wires on the rangey diffs? is it that they are not going to be used off road and they dont need to worry about getting back out? sigh....I'm putting a 3.54 Sailsbury in the back of the 109 and that *has* a fill plug....but if I ever want to do a rover axle...I'd like to have a better way to do it than welding etc steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 10:23:45 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 08:16:09 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, pparsons@ppsoc.com Subject: Disco add-on's et al..... Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco add-on's et al..... Peter, I got my Discovery with the dealer added rino bars and rear lamp guards. The dealer price for the rino bars was $1050 US. (Don't recall on the rear lens guards.) The CD player is around $800-$850 US but if you go to the parts department you can get it for $700 and change. All the wiring is already under the drivers seat, so installation is a VERY simple job. I've also heard that one of the after market companies sells the CD player for around $500, so that's what I'll do. I considered putting an after market CD player in for around $400 but really don't want to have a stupid remote control to operate it with, and don't want to try to find a location to mount the silly remote control pick-up part. I was not wanting to get the rino bars etc from the dealer, but they had already installed them, and wouldn't take them off since they had to drill holes, and cut the front spoiler to fit it. I *was* going to get one from Atlantic British for around $400 but... oh well... One thing to be aware of, is to make sure the rino bars are "air bag certified". Now, I've CAREFULLY examined the rino bars, and can someone please tell me what on earth makes this "air bag certified"? It doesn't appear to be ANY different from ANY other I've EVER seen!!! It bolts to the frame with 4 bolts, ... that's it!!! Nothing special that I could tell! Now... Regarding flame wars! Let's NOT! I'm sure that many rovers will never see dirt, but I doubt that this would apply to anyone on this list. As for me, I've had my disco for 19 days, have off-roaded several times, have nice "desert brush pin stripes" on both sides, and a steering dampener that's all dented up! I really should at least make the first payment before "trashing out" my truck, but after all, I didn't buy it just for it's good looks in my driveway! Enough said!!! Let's keep the arena free of flames! (Unless it pertains to spark plugs or fire extinguishers. ;) ) #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 12:32:21 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: LRO@Team.net Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:22:31 +1100 Subject: Tire Warning! X-Confirm-Reading-To: "John R. Benham" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO Dear LRO's For the last ten days, I was in Arizona near Prescott doing some water sampling and evaluating old abandoned mines. Unfortunately, I did not have my Land Rover. I was supplied with a Chevy Blazer (SWB) with General Grabber tires. Toward the end of one days work, we had a flat tire due to a sidewall rock cut from a rough 4x4 road. We changed the tire and opted to continue to our final destination of only .5 mile away. After working the last site, we turned the Blazer around only to have another sideway cut flat tire (the brand new spare we had just put on)! Fortunately, we found help via a radio tied in to the local sheriff's office. At 10PM, a rescurer brought us two new tires on rims to get us out! I have used B.F. Goodrich T/A radials and Michelin X's on my Land Rover and never had a problem such as this! General should be ashamed of putting such a tire on the market especially for off-road vehicles! Back safe from Arizona, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 12:40:03 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: LRO@Team.net Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:24:57 +1100 Subject: Fuel Injection for the 2.25L X-Confirm-Reading-To: "John R. Benham" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO Dear LRO's Does anyone know of a head conversion for the 2.25L petro to allow for fuel injection? This would be an obvious solution for the Land Rovers poor fuel economy and emmission problems. Later, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 11:55:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re:lro & military lrs From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 10:27:19 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Fredette writes: > OK, knucklehead the gloves are off and the flame thrower is on full. Finally, something fun & interesting to participate in... :-) > Ya know jealousy is a terrible thing, it makes complete jerks of seemingly > normal Land Rover enthusiasts. I sold my Ser lll 88 and my Ser ll 109 to buy > a DEFENDER 90 and haven't looked back once. All the parts that really matter > on a Land Rover, bodywork, frame, drivetrain etc., are the same or better > than on your earth pig thing and there is no reason not to expect it to last > as long as any other Land Rover ever made. I am not jealous of the 90's, if I really wanted one I would go out and buy one. However, that will wait until I can pick up a used one sometime in the future when they have depreciated to a reasonable level. Frankly I will probably pick up a 101 FC first, but that is another matter. As for longevity, we will have to wait on that one. I first have to organise the green beasties' (a 1964 109" Station Wagon) thirtieth birthday party... Otherwise, the late Series III's have proven to have inadequate frames. Whatever steel Land Rover used at the time is not proving to be as durable as the earlier vehicles. I look at the 110's and see rust marks coming from under, what I had thought, was the galvanized trim pieces. A few questions later I found that they were no longer galvanised but just painted and attached to the aluminium skin. I am also told from several sources that the doors are put together and then painted in the manufacturing process. This doesn't sound like a process that will slow galvanic action when compared to how they used to build the vehicles. Put this together and I think that there might be a slight problem with the later vehicles lasting as long as the earlier ones. Assuming they do, it may prove to carry a slightly higher cost than keeping my thirty year old vehicles (on average) going. I seem to recall Land Rover advertising from the early 80's stating that 70% of all previously built Land Rovers were still on the road. How about we wait ten years and then get the numbers, with a distribution across the various Series and Defenders of course. The drivetrain? Well, the Rover V8 is a very nice engine, more powerful et cetera, but it is a lot more expensive to maintain, in fact the whole vehicle is more expensive to maintain. Your coil springs are *very* nice. To nice according to the British Army who found that the ride was so nice and comfortable that the troops would go too fast and damage the vehicle off-road. They didn't have that problem with the Lightweights of Series Land Rovers in their possession. I would conclude that it is going to cost me about $80 a corner (new springs, u-bolts, nuts et cetera) to replace the springs on the 1962 88" hard top (the "little earth pig" as it has been named by others). Care to tell me what it is going to cost you when you have to do it in the future? > The fact that some (most) can't af one is irrelevant. As for myself and the > other two D90 owners I know here in Portland, we use ours as God intended, > in the muck. I didn't buy the thing to look at it in the garage and wipe it > with a diaper, I use it. You are one of the first that I have heard that does. All the power to you, it is nice to hear this. My limited experience has been the opposite. However, I would ask, unlike most on the list, and just about all Land Rover owners I do know of, can you afford to wrap it around a tree or sink it by mistake? Assuming you can, and can afford the initial cost, insurance et cetera, you are in a different class than the majority of Land Rover owners over here, including myself who would rather spread his meagre assets amongst a number of Series Land Rovers and some Austin Mini's. I don't see the point of sinking such worth into just one vehicle. > And it goes a l farther, and with less fuss, than any of the older Land > Rovers around here. Further, maybe, though I doubt it. Less fuss, sure, but then again it is horses for courses. I'd rather have the fuss and ensuing enjoyment going there. > I would put it up against any Series truck around in any terrain or mud hole > you pick and I'll go farther. Being on the other side of the continent, I doubt this will happen. However, I would certainly be game to try. In fact I can think of quite a few people that would also come along to try with me. I would also point out that you could have a Hummer, International Scout, or any other vehicle for that matter. The quality of the vehicle can not make up for experience driving off-road. I have seen a Series I go through the mire a lot faster and less painfully than the rest of the vehicles in attendance because the driver knew what he was doing. All you are doing here is staying that not only do you have a better vehicle than most, but that you are also a much better off-road driver. Fine... > That's why Land Rover makes D90's and not Series trucks anymore, because thay > are better. Wrong. Market forces decided what was to be produced. Toyota and the rest were offering V8's and the like. The public wanted these, and not the four banger. Just because something is newer doesn't necessarily mean it is better. There are as many examples one way as the other from automobiles to computer chips. Using your logic here, the Mini Clubman was better than the Cooper S. Which of these two vehicles does everyone want. Why did Intel come out with the 80486DX chip and then follow it with the 80486SX chip? The SX is better? Not a chance. Marketing all the way. We are getting the V8 in North America because the Yanks like V8's. Land Rover has lost a number of potential Defender customers in Canada because they want the TDi and not the petrol monster. Marketing has decided this and when the revolution comes, they are the first against the wall... Face it, it is a silly statement. > Sure they can't go in water as deep an old Series diesel, but how often > is that really the case, and it's still hard on the vehicle. Actually it can be quite common. More often than not in the water it is flowing out both sides of the bonnet and over the wings like twin waterfalls. Not just me either. And yes, it hard on the vehicle, but then again the older vehicles are easier to fix & you learn a lot fixing it from the last problem. Oh yeah, I should add the motto "Shit Happens" to "how often is that really the case". I have found that it is more true than you may believe. (Its also pretty fun watching the bow wave break over the windscreen, praying fervently that this pond will get shallower before you are in real deep shit. Ask Russell if he enjoyed trolling from a military 109 at the OVLR Birthday Party. Water is fun... :-)) > Look at all the people on the net constantly fixing starters generators/ > alternators that have been drowned in mud too many times. And of course > the TDi Defenders can go anywhere the Series trucks can, I was referencing > the petrol N.A. spec D90's I admit I am always fixing these things. Seems they get plugged with mud, but it take little time to pull them off and clean them out. Yes, the TDi will go many places and is a very niceengine. I wouldn't mind one of those in my IIA. But if you went in water all the time you would have the same problems as us, so I fail to see your point here. > I'm sure there are plenty of yuppie D90 and Discovery owners whose trucks > will never see dirt under the tires, but I would venture that none who are on > list fall into that catagory. And the same holds true for the Range Rover fol > this list, most use thier rigs regularly off road. Possibly true, though we don't hear that much from them. It would be nice to hear about some of the other goings on on the list. > I enjoyed working on my old rig, and I'll probably buy another just to have > something to tinker with,as that is a major fun part of owning an older one, > There isn't much of that on the new ones. And yet above you knock those of us who always have to fix them and enjoy doing so. > As for LRO, I agree they suck. But, the market has changed, out with the old > the new and all that crap. They have to cater to the majority, and the majori > case are those that own the newer vehicles. That's who the advertisers target > no mistake, they are the ones paying the bills keeping the rag afloat, not us The Defender, Disco, RR readers have the cash to buy a lot of the products advertised in LRO. A good number of ads are aimed at brush bars and all sorts of add on stuff, while I used to be more interested in the Craddocks, Merseyside, Paddocks, etc parts price lists. You are right, they are targetting their audience and frankly I am not in it, so why should I continue to support the magazine from a readers view? Remember, this thing costs over Cdn$100 a year to receive (late). Could this not be better spent on something more like what LRO used to be like, or some needed parts? > Yeah the Series folk are dropping off, but they make up for it with new Defen Somehow I don't think so. There are a lot of Series out there. They are just getting ignored by LRO. > As for tech articles, at this point there is enough material out there in the > books and back issues of the magazine fix most anything on the Series vehicle > old ground explaining how to's when it's already been covered in many places This is fine for you or I, who both have a rather large assortment of manuals, literature, back issues of magazines and knowledge. But for the newer owner they don't have this luxury. In fact I wouldn't limit to just the newer owner. To use your logic, we don't even need any technical articles. Just get a copy of the factory manual and you are off. For example, its true that it gets boring to write the same series of technical articles on a five year rotation, but the Land Rover went negative earth in 1968. Why twenty six years later do I still get people asking me how to change from positive to negative (after I have told them not to, but that is another story)? It has been in magazines for years, yet in my mind there seems to be a desire for some to know. Someone does, and it sells magazines. If you know about the techie stuff, turn the page, but at least LRO should give you the option to turn that page. > Watch those sweeping statements, many on this list are part of them. I enjo > reading about old Rover's and new ones. I think there is room enough for all Sweeping statements serve several purposes... > Flame off. No need. The debate is rather enjoyable... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS 212 lines... :-) Thx, I haven't had the opportunity for a while. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 11:23:50 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 10:15:54 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@team.net Status: RO Hey Gang! Real funny thing happen last night. Got finished for the night on the engine rebuild. Ran out of things in paper bags to put back on the engine. Plus Northern Exposure was due on the TV. But to my horror it was pre-empted. So the sig othr was doing some surfing with the remote and I saw this show about digging old stuff out of the ground. Made her stop and here was this Rover in the dirt with some guy with a clip board, a weird hat and what looked like fairly kobby knees, hanging out around the front bumper. Lost all track of what the host was saying. Say, that was a pretty nice Rover!! :~) Sorry but I had a hard time with the hat. Not exactly Cav. Ok this is the real stuff. The engine is ready to go back in the truck. Any hints or helps? Maybe something I haven't thought of or not. Put so much time into this engine I don't want to blow it this late in the game. Anything will help. Getting the rebuild paranoia. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - Almost on the road again. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 11:49:09 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: hard top for D90 To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com (Mike Fredette) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 9:43:10 PDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410251638.AA19871@pdx242.intel.com>; from "Mike Fredette" at Oct 25, 94 9:38 am Status: RO > And someone doubted that you were a real rover owner????? Hard to believe. > Russell, > to be the case. I've just decided to wait till the bloody hardtop > shows, whenever that is, and bought a big parka with a hood to keep > breeze and rain out. I have the side door glass and the bikini top > and with the tonneau covering the bed area, only the area right > behind my head is open. Not intolerable, but I'll be glad when the > top shows up. > Rgds > Mike Fredette > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 12:11:22 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Hollister Hills & So. Cal. LROs? To: Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 17:04:23 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409257831.AA783102680@ccmailsmtp.ast.com>; from "Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com" at Oct 25, 94 9:31 am Status: RO Breaking out the *what*?Somehow,I dont think you've heard the last of that........ Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 14:05:38 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:11:15 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:10:25 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Flame wars & getting dirty Priority: normal Status: RO > Now... Regarding flame wars! Let's NOT! I'm sure that many rovers will > never see dirt, but I doubt that this would apply to anyone on this > list. As for me, I've had my disco for 19 days, have off-roaded several > times, have nice "desert brush pin stripes" on both sides, and a > steering dampener that's all dented up! I really should at least make the > first payment before "trashing out" my truck, but after all, I didn't > buy it just for it's good looks in my driveway! Hell guys (and guyesses)! Who need a Land Rover to get dirty? I only need THINK about opening the bonnet of a car to get covered in dirt from head to foot -- what's called a magnetic person ;-) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 13:10:27 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 13:28:46 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Roy & His Lump To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Roy writes: >> So the sig othr was doing some surfing with the remote and I saw this show about digging old stuff out of the ground. Made her stop and here was this Rover in the dirt with some guy with a clip board, a weird hat and what looked like fairly kobby knees, hanging out around the front bumper. >> Clip board, a weird hat and what looked like fairly kobby knees??? Sounds like Sandy Grice and his VirginRover. If his knees were wobbly too it was probably right after the Mid Atlantic meet when he was celebrating :-). >> Ok this is the real stuff. The engine is ready to go back in the truck. Any hints or helps? Maybe something I haven't thought of or not. Put so much time into this engine I don't want to blow it this late in the game. Anything will help. Getting the rebuild paranoia. >> Take your time. Replace any suspect brake/clutch lines while you're there. Once you have it in and have set the timing and are ready to start, pull the plugs, shoot some W-D40 or some other slippery stuff in the cylinders, and crank the engine with the starter (put the battery on charger ahead of time) until you have oil pressure (be sure to ground the high tension lead from the coil while doing this). This will be much kinder to your bearings on initial start up. Good Luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 11:29:46 1994 From: Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 09:31:20 PST To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Hollister Hills & So. Cal. LROs? Status: RO Dear Morgan- Noticed your posting about Hollister Hills and wondered where this haven is?! I am in Southern CA and have not seen any postings from down this way yet, but I'd like to see our 88 R/R do more than look good on the street. Our 4-wheeling experience started with a 3-day Jeep trip (sin, blasphemy...) near Ouray, Colorado and we were hooked. My SO and I spent a 5K mile, 4X4-summer across Colorado to Wyoming in a 92 Bronco which only re-inforced the madness. But, we decided that 4-doors made more sense. The sport utility market was disappointing - obviously designed for wanna bes and not for serious off-road w/o additional expense. Looked seriously at a Disco and was waiting for the right color/pkg combo when the SO anounced that the first in our family is on the way and it was time to economize. The 88 R/R has over 100K mi, and cost $1K in repairs within 2 weeks of purchase, but all seems well now. So here we are with a serious off-road vehicle and nobody to play with?! We are very active in the BMW club (beginning SCCA in a 2002 and an Isetta under restoration), but would like to get a little active with other LROs in the area. The new L/R dealer in Mission Viejo has promised a training drive in the near future, but we would like to go out with others that don't mind a few scratches or breaking out the wench. Help?! Contact me direct at brian.foster@ast.com. TIA, Brian. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 13:10:04 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 11:58:14 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@team.net Subject: Spin-on Oil Filter Status: RO Gang, Who has a good source for the spin-on oil filter adapter. I had the info at one time but my desk ate it. That thing has a great big hunger for paper I need to keep. So any info would be appreciated. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -Back on the road again, soon! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 13:58:15 1994 To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: lro & military lrs and a question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:27:19 CDT." <9Z0quc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 11:44:51 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Dixon, Yikes, you scared me a second there with your point about maintenance costs on the Defender vs Series. I would conclude that it is going to cost me about $80 a corner (new springs, u-bolts, nuts et cetera) to replace the springs on the 1962 88" hard top So I pulled out my trusty Rovers North 1994 catalog to compare apples to apples. Now don't give me any guff about ordering from the UK, this just a quickie "smart shopper" comparison. Ok. for the front corner of an 88 we get the following: 1 spring pack at $115 USD per 2 U bolts at $10 per for a total of $20 4 bushings 2per spring and 2 for frame at $4.25, total $17 which gives us a grand total at $152 US per corner front.(rear is more as is any thing for a 109 but we'll stick with short wheel base) Now for the front corner of a Defender 1 coil spring at $50 2 panhard rod bushings at $6.50 for a total of $13 1 radius arm bushing at $23 2 radius arm to chassis bushings at $4 for a total of $8 which gives us a grand total of......$94 US.....$58 cheaper than a Series. HMMMmmmmm.OK the starter $199 for a petrol 88,$530 for a diesel, $600 for the Defender. OK ya got me there, though I seem to recall you have a diesel or two. OK alternator, or generator as the case may be:$185 for the 88, $500 for the Defender. Gosh ya got me there too. But hey, mine is new so it should hopefully be a while to replace those items, being made by Lucas nowithstanding. No big deal just interesting that some things are worse (ok a lot worse) and some things are better price wise Defender to Series. But come clean here, if you were offered a choice between an 88 and a Defender, free of charge, which would you take? As an aside, does anyone out there have the address and or phone # to the folks at Koenig. I understand they are still in bussiness and I need the drive dog for one of their PTO winches. See ya Mike Fredette From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 13:13:55 1994 From: Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 11:06:33 PST To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Subject: Re[2]: Hollister Hills & So. Cal. LROs? Status: RO Had me scared there for a moment! I had to go back and re-read my message to find out what you meant. I know I missed something there. Am I to assume that LROs don't need winches? Oh... NO! I didn't mean *wench* -- I meant winch. The spell check missed that one -- I need a grammer check! STOP sending me comments, my SO will wonder who I am talking about it! 8-O Brian ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Hollister Hills & So. Cal. LROs? Author: Mike Rooth at Internet Date: 10/25/94 5:04 PM Breaking out the *what*?Somehow,I dont think you've heard the last of that........ Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 15:15:53 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:07:49 -0800 To: "John R. Benham" From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Tire Warning! Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO For what it's worth, I have had General Grabbers (for about 5 years now) on my 88 without incident (and some amout of tire torture). -jory ps: fuel injection for a 2.25 would be intersting, as long as I could (relatively easily) revert to the carb when the electronics were unhappy! >Dear LRO's > > For the last ten days, I was in Arizona near Prescott doing some >water sampling and evaluating old abandoned mines. Unfortunately, I >did not have my Land Rover. I was supplied with a Chevy Blazer (SWB) >with General Grabber tires. Toward the end of one days work, we had >a flat tire due to a sidewall rock cut from a rough 4x4 road. We >changed the tire and opted to continue to our final destination of >only .5 mile away. After working the last site, we turned the Blazer >around only to have another sideway cut flat tire (the brand new >spare we had just put on)! Fortunately, we found help via a >radio tied in to the local sheriff's office. At 10PM, a rescurer >brought us two new tires on rims to get us out! > I have used B.F. Goodrich T/A radials and Michelin X's on my Land >Rover and never had a problem such as this! General should be >ashamed of putting such a tire on the market especially for off-road >vehicles! > >Back safe from Arizona, >John R. Benham - Editor >N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' >Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ > |______\_____ >1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} > The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) > >509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 14:55:47 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Babes that like Land Rovers? From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 13:02:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Land Rovers as a Babe Magnet? Where do you meet women that like Land Rovers Russ and Bill. I met a lady and when I showed her my Land Rover. she asked " Why did you put your spare tire on your hood." "It came that way", I retorted. "No it didn't, Jeeps have them on the back." Things got worse when she asked, "Is it certified, does it run?" At this point I decided against offering her a ride in it, especially when it would almost start and kill the battery, just to spite me. I did not want to hear any more disparaging remarks. I forgot to mention that she didn't like the idea of more leaves on the inside than the outside. I had parked topless under a tree for a week, during the transition from soft top to hard top. Just got the top on that morning. And NO SEATBELTS! Oh well. -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 14:50:15 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 15:33:36 EDT From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Tootsie Toy Land-Rovers To: land-rover-owner@TEAM.NET Status: RO Does anyone on the list have a spare Tootsie Land-Rover 109"? This model was released during the late 1960's and based upon a 109" Station Wagon. The body is coloured a bright green and all of the windows except the front doors and windscreen are blanked-off with zinc. It measures about two inches in length and had a trailer hitch as I recall. I had at least two as a kid and both were stolen by a neighbour kid. (Well, at least he had good taste!) It is valued at about $2-$3 in mint condition according to "Collectable Toys." Anyone who has one for sale at a reasonable price can contact me directly. Thanks. Brian Willoughby 1960 Series II 88" Station Wagon bawill01@ukcc.uky.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 15:39:16 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 13:33:07 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: GIF TRANSLATION HELP. Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: GIF TRANSLATION HELP. Could someone in "internet world" please help me with a GIF file? I need to have a GIF file converted from GIF89A format to GIF87A format. I realize that this is from a newer format to an older one, but this is what I need done. I don't have access to any tools that would do this. If you can, the file can be gotten by ftp at: ftp.std.com in directory /pub/rparker/95DISC.GIF If you could do this for me I'd REALLY appreciate it!!! e-mail me if you can, and I'll let you know an ftp address that you can send it to, or let me know an ftp address that I can get it from. MANY thanks to who ever can help me with this. Sorry for the bandwidth, but it IS offroad related, it's a GIF of a Land Rover Discovery traversing a river. #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 15:45:48 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 13:36:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Morgan Hannaford From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Poster Child Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Morgan, Good to see you active on the 'net: >Luke (S.F. lad, '72 ser III) and I went down to Hollister Hills off-road >park to Rover it up. Nice place, lots of trails; all the trails >are marked like ski runs (e.g. green circles - black diamonds), and >it's only $4 all day- the tread lightly alternative. Anyway, we are >cruising some trecherous terrain: steep hill climbs with axle >twisters up the #$*?!. I've never seen an 88" lift a tire before! Well, it sure sounds like fun! I like the idea of the ski-trail sign postings; do they have any double-diamonds? If so, I'll have to find my way down there, one of these days. For those of you who don't know about them, there a two public off-road vehicle parks in my area. Just outside of Ukiah, on BLM land, there is the Cow Mountain ORV use area (better known locally as "Red Mountain"), with many square miles of easy-to-nasty trails for 4x4s, four-wheelers, and motorcycles. And talk about not having ever before seen an 88 lift a wheel? I can show you a trail where I had my left front tire a good foot or so off the ground, while both differentials were digging a new rut! The hill I was climbing was so steep that I could hardly stand up on it, yet I got stuck enough trying to cross over a very deep rut that I was spinning and going nowhere while trying to BACK DOWN! I eventually did succeed in climbing that hill in my Land-Rover. On another outing, my son and I and two other youngsters on motorcycles were out that way. I took them to the trail and no one was up to trying it on dirt bikes! (Well, maybe my son, Bennett could have climbed it...) Another, in Lake County, is at Middle Creek, north of the town of Upper Lake, in Mendocino National Forest. I have camped there, at the begining of a Land-Rover excursion (7 Land-Rovers, three days) into the national forest, but have not gotten around to trying the trails. Both areas have camping facilities. Early in the spring, when the ground is still a little gooey, I'd like to organize a weekend at one of these places, if anyone would be interested. Could be some good camping, conveviality, jawing, cruising the outback, and--for those of us gonzo types--gnarly four-wheeling. Maybe I'll try out those SuperSwamperTSLs... >Anyway, my '69 rover has the Scotty conversion to a Chevy 250ci >I6. The major modification in this conversion is with the cooling >system. The radiator is a big cross flow jobber moved up to the >front panel, with a remote fan. Wish I had known that you had that conversion in when I saw your Rover at Hayward. I would have certainly wanted to have a look. The 250s I have seen installed in 88s were certainly tight fits. An appealing idea, though. Good, tough, cheap engine, very much in the Land-Rover spirit, as far as I am concerned. I once had a a 109 which had a Chevy 235 and it sure made the difference! Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 15:46:10 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 13:37:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Mike Fredette From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re:lro & flames Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Mike Fredette screams: > >Dixon slimes, > >> So we will see more Defender, Disco, Range Rover shit. How nice. >> I am sure the yuppies will be delighted not to read about old >> junkers still on the road. > >and then adds > >> PPS. When you write LRO, convey my regards & my statement that the >> big green beastie & little earth pig will both outlast the > [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >> blinders a little more. Eventually they will pull them so >> tight, they may blow a head gasket and see the light. > >OK, knucklehead the gloves are off and the flame thrower is on full. >Ya know jealousy is a terrible thing, it makes complete jerks of seemingly >normal Land Rover enthusiasts. [snip-snip-snip] >Watch those sweeping statements, many on this list are part of them. I enjoy >reading about old Rover's and new ones. I think there is room enough for all off us here. >Flame off. > Well, Mike, Dixon shoor knows how to push your button. John Brabyn must have been away from his computer or he'd surely have said something, too. There is a lot to what you are saying. I love the old Land-Rovers but the only thing stopping me from buying a new one(s) is the price. I would like very much to have a Defender 90, a 110, a Discovery, and a couple of Range Rovers. But I sure don't begrudge those who do (at least those who understand their heritage). I kind of like their company; maybe some of it will rub off... Another aspect that we all must realize, in critiquing LRO, is that it IS a British magazine and, while I'm sure it would like to entertain all the Land-Rover enthusiasts of the world, its primary audience is in the U.K. and increasingly among the owners of the plentiful-in-the-UK newer rigs. They need to not forget the rest, of course. And I'm not defending LRO; I'm disgusted with it for its lack of serious content, not its bias toward newer rigs. In fact, that aspect was very important to me when we couldn't get the newer ones here; I wanted to keep up. And, in any case, like Land-Rover, the magazine has to keep up. I'd like to see a lot more about where the industry and particulary the Land-Rover company is heading and, indeed, ought to be heading... What I want to see more of is substance, details, specifications, opinion, objective test results, including those comparing Land-Rovers with other makes. LRW is maybe a little better, but not nearly good enough. I want to see more about hybrid specials and other creative stuff. Less about every slight combination and permutation of police and ambulance vehicles. I enjoy the travel articles, but would like them to have more emphasis on the off-road adventure aspect. And, yes, I love the ads, especially the private ads. That's the stuff dreams are made of! What I'd really like to see: The classified ads posted on the internet (WWW site, with photos) as soon as they are received. That way those of us in the rest of the world would have just as good a crack at the good deals as those in the U.K. (well, sort of; we can't as easily go and look at them). As it is now, if I wanted to jump at an ad for some really bitchin' V-8 coiler trials special at an unbelievably low price, I might as well not bother, as some bloke in the U.K. will have long snatched it up. Well, there, I've said enuff... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 16:23:16 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 16:48:05 EDT From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Tootsie Toy Land-Rovers, Cont'd. and alternators To: land-rover-owner@TEAM.NET Status: RO Sorry! I neglected to say a few other things concerning those little Tootsie Landies I'm searching for. As I recall, the only way one could purchase the model was to buy it as part of a set. These sets consisted of about a half dozen die-cast cars all contained within plastic blisters glued to a cardboard backing. This model is a bit smaller than the familiar Matchbox item (i.e. No. 12, the "Land Rover Safari" which came in Green, Blue or Gold with luggage on the roof). If memory serves me, this Tootsie also had baggage atop its roof also. It was a one piece casting with no base plate and two axles with attached black plastic tires crimped in place upon four little metal flanges suspended from the body. Tootsie also sold other, bigger Land-Rovers, though these were highly free-lanced Series III's with a lot of accompanying plastic. I also have them already. A reasonable price to me is $10 or under. (Which is far more than it is supposed to be worth on the collector market). I'm in graduate school and don't have a lot of money to play around with. Again, let me know if you have a nice example of this model you are willing to part with. Now, my alternator. Sometimes it charges, sometimes it doesn't. When it is not charging, the light glows orange in the center of my dash. Often, it will be glowing from the second it is started until it is shut down. Other times, it will not glow at all or half-way through a trip it will flip on. The leads are good and tight. The belt is not slipping. What is wrong? The wiring on this car is a nightmare and apparently has been since a p.o. switched it over from pos. earth to neg. earth. One of my first priorities is to get a new wiring loom when I finish school, though in the mean time, I would like to keep the car rolling. Could the alt. be bad? Automotive electrics are not my field of expertise. Replys on the Model can be sent directly to me; if you want to post the alt. solution/suggestion to the entire list, be my guest or send it again direct. Thanks in advance. May the Prince of Darkness watch over me! That's a certain Joseph Lucas, you know. Brian Willoughby 1960 Series II 88" Station Wagon E-Mail: bawill01@ukcc.uky.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 19:47:00 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: OHV parks and trips To: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net, lro@team.net Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 883 Status: RO Granville, Those parks sound great, if I had known I would have gone there to kill my radiator! The trip through the Mendocino National Forest sounded like fun, how long ago? I've been trying to talk some friends down here into a similar trip. Maybe some people in No.Cal. would be interested in an officially unofficial land-rover get together; not to park 'em on the lawn but to stick 'em in the mud! The Mendocino Nat. For. would be a lot closer for many of us than the Black Rock Desert trips (though they do sound fun!). So, if any Rover netters are interested in the above mentioned dirt- fest, let's organize. Sincerely, Morgan Hannaford U.C. Berkeley '69 88" P.S. Granville, I finally did meet up with the woman from the city who drives her red IIA 88" up to Laytonville. I followed her up from Cloverdale to Willits on 101, she must have thought I was nuts. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 21:22:57 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: lro & new lrs From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 20:46:46 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Fredette writes: > I also didn't mean to imply, as > Russell pointed out, that the only reason people buy Series vehicles is that > they can't afford the new ones. Sorry to give that impression. Russell's message never arrived here, nor on another site that I know of. Care to forward it here, of post it? I think the addressing to lro got a bit grunged. Thx, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 01:36:06 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 01:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Tootsie Toy Land-Rovers To: BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Brian writes.... > Does anyone on the list have a spare Tootsie Land-Rover 109"? This model > was released during the late 1960's and based upon a 109" Station Wagon. > The body is coloured a bright green and all of the windows except the front > doors and windscreen are blanked-off with zinc. It measures about two > inches in length and had a trailer hitch as I recall. Well Brian.. I have one.. not in mint condition as some damm fool glued sparkly stuff all over it. I don't really want to sell it, but I might trade it if you have something interesting and cheap and land-roverish.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 01:24:56 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Tootsie Toy Land-Rovers To: BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Brian Willoughby) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 00:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410251940.PAA16103@transfer.stratus.com> from "Brian Willoughby" at Oct 25, 94 03:33:36 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1152 Status: RO Brian Willoughby scribbleth: < Does anyone on the list have a spare Tootsie Land-Rover 109"? This model < was released during the late 1960's and based upon a 109" Station Wagon. < The body is coloured a bright green and all of the windows except the front < doors and windscreen are blanked-off with zinc. It measures about two < inches in length and had a trailer hitch as I recall. I had at least two < as a kid and both were stolen by a neighbour kid. (Well, at least he had < good taste!) It is valued at about $2-$3 in mint condition according to < "Collectable Toys." Anyone who has one for sale at a reasonable price can < contact me directly. There be an ugly Tootsie on my computer. Off of Jan's dirty desk I pursued 'er. So, she ain't for sale! Not even the Holy Grail Or a gummy Norwegian could substitute 'er. (especially when you consider that she runs better than my Solihull model right now). Of course, if you are in to gummy Norwegians, you might be able to bribe Jon. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 25 18:40:40 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 09:05:46 GMT-0930 Subject: Discovery Accessories Priority: normal Status: RO Peter C Parsons is wondering about accessories. Having had a Discovery for two years now, the most valuable bits are: Floor mats cargo barrier head rest covers (the head rests are diabolically hard on your head when bouncing off-road) something over the rat-shit arm rests, they're as hard and uncomfortable as all get out as well! a decent tow bar (the Land Rover one is hopeless - the loss in ground clearance is diabolical with theirs, unless its been changed) good window tinting (ours are tinted with Titanium Plus tint, 99% UV reflection and 60% infra red) a rear snatch point (we fitted a front one to the rear chassis rail on the right hand side) Just in case you're the bunny who goes first and gets stuck! Most tow bar pins are NOT rated, so pulling out your car with them is potentially risky. a brush??? bar. Only if you think they're sexy. We go into the Aust bush without a bar, not a problem. CD changer??? Obviously you don't intend to use the Landy in any dusty conditions ----- wimp! Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 04:17:22 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 09:13:02 GMT From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Discovery accessories X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 369 Status: RO We bought the following extras from LR (UK) for our TDi: Rubber car mats - essential Retractable back step - useful when doing up ski-boots and for clambering into the back Tow-bar Front fog lamps - would have chosen driving lamps instead, the standard headlamps do not seem very powerful to me. Lockable Cubbybox between front seats - very useful Martin Farrall From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 04:19:17 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 09:15:06 GMT From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LR accessories X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 150 Status: RO I forgot the most useful thing of all - seat covers made of a nylon type of fabric - essential for all equestrian related activities. Martin Farrall From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 10:50:32 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 08:33:18 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU, mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net, lro@team.net Subject: Re: OHV parks and trips Status: RO In message <199410260043.RAA20438@pathos.Berkeley.EDU> Morgan Hannaford writes: > Granville, > > Those parks sound great, if I had known I would have gone there > to kill my radiator! The trip through the Mendocino National > Forest sounded like fun, how long ago? I've been trying to > talk some friends down here into a similar trip. Maybe some > people in No.Cal. would be interested in an officially unofficial > land-rover get together; not to park 'em on the lawn but to stick > 'em in the mud! The Mendocino Nat. For. would be a lot closer for > many of us than the Black Rock Desert trips (though they do sound > fun!). > > So, if any Rover netters are interested in the above mentioned dirt- > fest, let's organize. > > Sincerely, > Morgan Hannaford > U.C. Berkeley > '69 88" > > P.S. Granville, I finally did meet up with the woman from the city > who drives her red IIA 88" up to Laytonville. I followed her up > from Cloverdale to Willits on 101, she must have thought I was nuts. > > SOunds like it might be fun if my 109 was working. Is the woman's red 88 look like it was freshly painted & nice & shiny? I passed one going the oposit direction when I was returning from a trip up the Oregon coast in my 109. It was on 101 in that general vacinity & I noticed a woman was driving. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 10:43:10 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 11:26:43 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Encoding: 9 Text To: LRO@stratus.com Subject: Subscribe Info Status: RO Dear Administrator, Please tell me how I may subscribe to the LRO list server. I am an American owner of a 1960 Series II 109" Station Wagon Deluxe. Thank you. Hank Lapa hlapa@zeus.signalcorp.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 10:54:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: lro & military lrs and a question From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 09:33:56 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Fredette writes: > Yikes, you scared me a second there with your point about > maintenance costs on the Defender vs Series. Time will tell. There is no point to get into nitty gritty specifics over what a whole vehicle adds up to in parts costs. > No big deal just interesting that some things are worse (ok a lot worse) and > things are better price wise Defender to Series. But come clean here, if you > offered a choice between an 88 and a Defender, free of charge, which would yo If that is the only choice, I would like to try the TDi. A petrol, well, play with it for a while and then sell it. I am still not convinced on the longevity of these vehicles. That aside, you miss a whole pile of my points in my last missive... > As an aside, does anyone out there have the address and or phone # to the > folks at Koenig. I understand they are still in bussiness and I need the driv > one of their PTO winches. Don't have the Koenig Inron Works number off hand, but some parts may be available from American Gear & Supply in Houston. Their number is (713) 643-4321. AGS used the Koenig winches for years on their drilling rigs. Koenig has a few bits kicking about, but for the most part the stock , as told to me by Koenig, was sold to a California Land Rover Club years ago. If you just need the prop shaft for the winch, a visit to a tractor dealership for a "clone" would be far cheaper, and probably a little less of a problem. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 12:32:28 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 18:23:40 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HIMZLPAV0091ZLRW@delphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Country: Denmark. 92oct unleaded (lowest oct avail here) approx $0.97/LITRE. 95oct unleaded approx $1.07/L 98oct leaded (on the way out) approx $1.15/L Perspective: Car tax (new cars) 180% Commercial vehicles don't pay 180%. Result: 50+% of all taxies are Mercedes Benz. +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 11:28:16 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: To Lead or Unlead To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 16:24:00 GMT Status: RO Those readers of this list on the far side of the Puddle might be interested in the latest findings of our ever inane politicains and their even more incompetent "scientists". Now,ladies and gentlemen,it may be told.Unleaded petrol is *bad* for you.Apparently the connection between brain damage and lead fumes was always tenuous at best.It goes without saying that the aforementioned politicians and scientists remain *totally* UNdamaged,since their is no eveidence that they had a brain in the first place. This has had the following effect on yours truly.I now dont give a flying fart about the environment,since I dont beleive there was anything wrong with it in the first place.I shall happily motor round this fair land puthering out clouds of unburnt diesel to my hearts content,rather than spending good money on having the injectors seen to.The money I save thereby I shall spend on cigarettes,which I shall continue to smoke, with great enjoyment,only in increased quantities.I will *not* subject my dogs to the indignities of worming,and shall encourage them to tip their trucks wherever they feel like it. I refuse to beleive the outpourings of feckess academics,medical, engineering,biological or whatever,whose only ambition appears to get their useless names in print.The credibility gap has widened. It is now a chasm. The only "recycling" I shall now do is to continue to use seconhand parts on the Land Rover.They can sort the bloody bottles into clear and coloured themselves.I'm *extremely* happy to announce that the Limestone paint I used on the Land Rover wheels is lead based(and therefore stands a better chance of staying put than the plastic rubbish),and shall positively *encourage* all the obnoxious children of my aquaintance to chew the wheels,provided the daft little buggers leave the tyres alone.I've got plenty of paint left over.I'm debating whether to install a coal fire at home,to be run with insufficient top air so it covers the surrouding washing with the soot so beloved of those of us who grew up in the fifties and sixties.And I've *always* been a fan of the steam locomotive.My brake linings will,from henceforth be firmly asbestos based,and will probably last a lot longer.The brakes will be applied *hard*,particularly when there are passers by to cover in brake dust. I'm cross,too. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 11:30:38 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:26:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Brian Willoughby), "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Tootsie Toy Land-Rovers Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410260621.AAA17839@mercury.cair.du.edu> Status: RO T.F. scribbleth to Brian: >< good taste!) It is valued at about $2-$3 in mint condition according to >< "Collectable Toys." Anyone who has one for sale at a reasonable price can >< contact me directly. > > There be an ugly Tootsie on my computer. > Off of Jan's dirty desk I pursued 'er. > So, she ain't for sale! > Not even the Holy Grail > Or a gummy Norwegian could substitute 'er. > >(especially when you consider that she runs better than my Solihull >model right now). Of course, if you are in to gummy Norwegians, you >might be able to bribe Jon. ______________________________________________________ T.F. I too, feel as you do, about my teeny tiny gummy Red Rover. But**** only one power on earth could cause me to forsake my newly aquired gem. That power would be***The request of "The fair damsel DIANA". As you probably know, She is coming to the U.S. soon, BUT what is LITTLE KNOWN is that she is coming to Pittsburgh to ask to see MY gummy norwegian red rover with the gummy man in the back. As I fancy myself a Prince Charles look alike. She may consider staying here and we could play as royalty over looking the picturesque Monongahala and Allegheny rivers. We would be deleriously happy, riding through the Fort Pitt tunnels in the 109 at rush hour, and doing other fun Pittsburgh things. I would promise that she could have complete control of me and be as jealous as she liked, as she was of the real Charles. I would be her slave!!! I also would grant her possesion of the gummy red rover, should she ask. But ***I would never sell the gummy one to any one else. Sorry if I've offended anyone with this, but if Baloney and Russ can have their fantasies, I want one too. (no flames please) Later Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 11:51:33 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:44:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Re: Babes that like Land Rovers? In-Reply-To: <86gRuc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Status: RO Dale, I met that same lady here in Pittsburgh last week. > >Land Rovers as a Babe Magnet? Where do you meet women that like Land >Rovers Russ and Bill. I met a lady and when I showed her my Land Rover. >she asked " Why did you put your spare tire on your hood." "It came that >way", I retorted. "No it didn't, Jeeps have them on the back." Things >got worse when she asked, "Is it certified, does it run?" At this point >I decided against offering her a ride in it, especially when it would >almost start and kill the battery, just to spite me. I did not want to >hear any more disparaging remarks. I forgot to mention that she didn't >like the idea of more leaves on the inside than the outside. I had >parked topless under a tree for a week, during the transition from >soft top to hard top. Just got the top on that morning. And NO >SEATBELTS! Later Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 11:59:10 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:55:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn To: Jon Humphrey Cc: Brian Willoughby , "T.F. Mills" , lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Tootsie Toy Land-Rovers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Jon, you only get to gift the Princess of Wales with the gummy Norwegian Rover if she agrees to write some silly poetry for the mini-rover silly poetry collection (or was that the silly rover mini-poetry collection... or the silly mini rover peotry... or.. um, yeah, well, you get the drift... jan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 12:31:32 1994 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:26:56 -0400 Sender: JFisk1120@aol.com To: LRO@team.net Subject: what a Girl!! Status: RO Just received my latest issue of "InStyle" (a new magazine published by "People") and included is a great article and gorgeous photos of Chris Evert and Andy Mill's home in Aspen, Colorado. Andy apparently collects Native American art and pieces by a variety of artists. "Andy's the art lover," says Chris. "I'd rather have a Range Rover than a $40,000 painting." I knew there was a reason why I liked her!! Jan Fisk "I brake for mud puddles" Springfield, Missouri 1964 Land Rover Series IIA 1991 Range Rover County From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 12:43:08 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:25:35 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Knobby knees - not! Status: RO Roy and Bill- Glad you caught the episode...however, anyone who has seen these meaty legs would not use the term "knobby", especially the last orthopedic surgeon to work on 'em. There were two chaps with clipboards....I hung out over by the Rover and the hat was a *genuine* LR baseball cap. So there! In the closing scene, I was just over John-Rhys' shoulder, standing by the theodolite. The Rover photographs faily well...I mean from that distance you can't tell the marine blue is all faded out with dings and scratches all over. Just the other day, the city's new high-falutin', automated trash truck put a 1 meter gouge down the driver's side. Now that the Rover is an international star, maybe I can get the city to pay for a complete re-spray! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 13:00:45 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: LRO@Team.net Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:54:59 +1100 Subject: Toy Range Rovers X-Confirm-Reading-To: "John R. Benham" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO Dear LRO's, Last year I was in France and while in Rouen, I spotted a Range Rover model at a model/train shop (the Minitrain Shop). It is made by Burago of Italy at 1/25 scale (@ 9 in long). Bonnet, tail gate, tail window, and doors all work. Body is metal with plastic accessaries. It is expedition equiped by ELF. It also has a roof rack with two spare tires, petro cans, two tool kits w/tools, an undefined barrel, Rhino guard, and four running lights. It's a great model with lots of details and only cost me F40. or $7.27 US at that time and exchange. Unfortunately, that was the beginning of my trip and I had to haul it around my back pack for the next three weeks! Nothing broke though. It now sits on my bookshelf at work! Who knows, maybe that store in Rouen will ship to US? Uh oh, I just noticed it's right hand drive - one might have trouble getting into the US... Later, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 13:26:29 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:10:11 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Jon Shows Di His Tootsie To: LRO@stratus.com, denis!oswego.Oswego.EDU@internet!.needs.domain Content-Type: Text Status: RO Jon writes: >> That power would be***The request of "The fair damsel DIANA". As you probably know, She is coming to the U.S. soon, >> I think she already came. ;-) >> BUT what is LITTLE KNOWN is that she is coming to Pittsburgh to ask to see MY gummy norwegian red rover with the gummy man in the back. >> Yea, but is it big enough for her? My Dinky is twice the size of your Tootsie. >> As I fancy myself a Prince Charles look alike. >> Actually, this is quite true. Except Jon doesn't have the dorky hair. And Chuck doesn't have Lassie. >> She may consider staying here and we could play as royalty over looking the picturesque Monongahala and Allegheny rivers. >> Be careful. If you play as royalty we may wind up seeing you on Hard Copy with all the lurid details of your past life for all to see. It might even overshadow OJ. >> We would be deleriously happy, riding through the Fort Pitt tunnels in the 109 at rush hour, and doing other fun Pittsburgh things. >> What other fun Pittsburgh things??? >> I would promise that she could have complete control of me and be as jealous as she liked, as she was of the real Charles. I would be her slave!!! I also would grant her possesion of the gummy red rover, should she ask. >> Sounds like you would be, as the alien said last night on "Alien Nation", "Kitty Whipped". >> Sorry if I've offended anyone with this, but if Baloney and Russ can have their fantasies, I want one too. >> If you haven't, I'm sure I made up for it. How's your steering relay anyway? Did you have a chance to pull the drain and filler plugs and flush it out? More Bull$#!+ from Baloney maloney@wings.attmail.com PS. Jon - Sorry I couldn't respond direct too. My mail header didn't give me a usable return address. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 13:43:26 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 12:33:56 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@team.net Subject: The Hat Status: RO Sandy, Well, I have to admit my focus was on your Rover, for the most part. The hat I saw was obviously not on your head. It was a very broad brim affair, which looked like straw. Now that you mention the baseball cap, I did see you. I don't know about the socks and shorts, but your Rover sure stands proud. Say, wasn't your Rover of preistine body just before that garbage truck motored by? It sure looked it on film. It seems to me that the fair city owes you some paint and body work. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - Rovers, nothing famous but the name. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 14:29:05 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 13:21:58 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@team.net Subject: Diana Status: RO Ok Jon and Bill, You hit a button regarding Chuck. As a military kinda guy, I use to respect Chuck a great deal. However, after this little tell all, especially the details regarding Camillia, he may be an officer, but is not a gent. No matter from where he came. As for Diana and your small toys, just look in an old issue of Al Workhorse and you can see a photo of my, all wood, working tail gate, accurate tires and wheels 62 IIA Rover, that is at the 1/20th scale. Plus it says right on the bottom, right there for all to see, Roy`s Toy. I am sure Diana would push both you posers out of the way to live with my toy and the three real Rovers, up here in the Big Sky Country. Plus I don't tell stories out of the bedroom, like the Chuck fellow. In the Cav, he wouldn't be good enough to even mount an M1A1-HA much less command one. You know what they say: " You ain't Cav, You ain't shit! " Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - Waiting for lovely Diana. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 14:39:10 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:33:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Kendall Robinson From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Land Rover question Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Kendall Robinson writes: > The following ad appeared in the local paper recently: > > "Land Rover 59 Model 109, 24K, Ultimate off road vehicle! > $10K." > > Is this expensive? I really have no idea what these vehicles are > supposed to cost. Are the early Land Rovers pretty usable > (outside of off road conditions)? > > Kendall > kendallr@chey.com > Kendall, In responding to your query, I am posting a copy to the Land-Rover Owners network, officially land-rover-owner@team.net (or lro@team.net), which I call the "Rover-Net" (and its participants "Net-Rovers"), so others can comment. If you would like to join the "Rover-Net", you can get information about how to subscribe by posting the message "info lro-digest" to the e-mail address: Your interest in Land-Rovers is most welcome, I think we are a friendly and open group of enthusiasts. : ) As to the price of that 109: Well, it depends on a lot of considerations. One is the authenticity of the recorded mileage. It is very unlikely but possible. If true, it should be either obvious from the condition or, preferably, fully documented with service records. I have owned 14 Land-Rovers (and counting 8*o) and don't recall having had even one with a working odometer. If the mileage is correct and if the Rover appears to have been properly maintained, has service records, and runs and drives well (as determined by someone experienced with Land-Rovers), it is probably well worth the price. If it deviates significantly from this description, it could cost a whole lot more before you brought it up to snuff. In your part of the country (I assume eastern U.S. or Canada, based upon the time of your message, namely that it was EST), you must check very carefully for rot in the frame and bulkhead (aka firewall/a-pillars)(the only major parts of the body structure which are not alumin[i]um). Look for leaks. Yes, it's British and therefore supposed to leak but if it has been sitting unused for very long (likely, if the mileage is accurate) you had best assume that every rubber seal in the brake system, fuel system, drivetrain, and body (did I miss anything?) will be shot. The rear main seal of the engine is particularly nasty to replace. Count on having to rebuild the entire brake system. My [formerly] daily driver, a 1970 88, had all apparently good seals when I parked it less than three years ago and now both the clutch and brake pedals are going right to the floor. If you post a message on the Rover-Net saying where you live, there is probably someone experienced in these matters nearby who can help. Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 14:39:19 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:33:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Morgan Hannaford From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: OHV parks and trips Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Morgan Hannaford (U.C. Bizerkely)writes: >Those parks sound great, if I had known I would have gone there >to kill my radiator! The trip through the Mendocino National >Forest sounded like fun, how long ago? I've been trying to >talk some friends down here into a similar trip. Maybe some >people in No.Cal. would be interested in an officially unofficial >land-rover get together; not to park 'em on the lawn but to stick >'em in the mud! The Mendocino Nat. For. would be a lot closer for >many of us than the Black Rock Desert trips (though they do sound >fun!). > >So, if any Rover netters are interested in the above mentioned dirt- >fest, let's organize. Yes, let's. If I hurry, maybe I can get a Land-Rover back on, er, rather, off the road by spring... (maybe sooner, in a pinch). Got to quick design and build a shop. Well, first step completed last night: Installed TurboCAD for Windows on my new Pentium. Now I gotta teach myself how to use CAD, design and build a shop, etc. ;~> P.S. Granville, I finally did meet up with the woman from the city >who drives her red IIA 88" up to Laytonville. I followed her up >from Cloverdale to Willits on 101, she must have thought I was nuts. Yes, Helma Schwindig, a member of LROA,NA. She probably didn't; neat lady... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 14:39:03 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:34:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: OHV parks and trips Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO TerriAnn, good to hear from you! >Sounds like it might be fun if my 109 was working. We can wait. I have to do a bit of work on one of mine before I'd be ready. >Is the woman's red 88 look like it was freshly painted & nice & shiny? Yes. It has, as I recall, shiny fire-engine red paint below the beltline and all alpine white above. A Series II hardtop with fixed side windows. Her name is Helma Schwindig and she's a member of LROA,NA. Very nice lady. I spoke to her a number of years ago and got the impression that the Land-Rover is her daily driver and she lives in the City! Melanie and I once drove all over the City in our camo 88. Driving the hills in such a rig is "entertaining". That Land-Rover has a huge longer-than-the-roof safari rack and whip antenna (for my since stolen CB). Well, we went to dinner at the Fairmont Hotel and you should have seen the look on the face of the parking garage attendent! He madly waved to me to stop! I looked out and found that I had about 1/2" of clearance overhead. He made me go to a more plebian garage down the street. : ) My best, Granville From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 14:51:12 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 15:42:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn To: maloney Cc: LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: Jon Shows Di His Tootsie In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 26 Oct 1994, maloney wrote: > Actually, this is quite true. Except Jon doesn't have the dorky hair. And > Chuck doesn't have Lassie. Jon has Lassie? oh, Jon, had i known that you would have gotten all the mini-Rovers... gummy, Tootsie, and maybe even the red corgi... too late now... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 18:11:47 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:05:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Brown To: Serge Arfi Cc: Land Rover Messages to Digest Subject: Rebuild of Dual Master Cylinder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dave, your pistons (plungers) should always return freely from the internal spring pressure. I have not rebuilt a rover master but I am a Brake Engineer for EIS Brake Parts, an aftermarket supplier of brake components. You indicated that you rehoned the cylinder, recheck for any burrs on the bore or pistons. Did you acquire the correct seals. I know that some English cars have seals designed for minerial based brake fluid. These will not work in DOT spec. glycol based fluid and visa-versa. If you still have problems send me a message and I'll try to help further. Greg '71 Series IIA 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 21:59:58 1994 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:55:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Henry Stevens To: LRO_List Subject: Landy on publication cover Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Now I normally don't pick up "Men's Journal" magazine, but two things caught my eye from the newsstand. First of all is the cover story "Off Highway -- The Best of America's Back Roads", and the second was the vehicle in the middle distance, driving toward the camera. A US-spec Defender 90. Haven't read the article yet, but a quick glance shows the Landy in operation at various places 'round the lower 48. Article contains a short list of places to get off-road instruction too. FWIW, might be worth a glance at the newsagents. -- Henry "Still landy-less, but thinking about one all the time" Stevens Calgary, Alberta, CANADA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 00:27:15 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 01:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: To Lead or Unlead To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Mike Rooth Sounds Off!!! > > Those readers of this list on the far side of the Puddle > might be interested in the latest findings of our ever > inane politicains and their even more incompetent "scientists". > Now,ladies and gentlemen,it may be told.Unleaded petrol is *bad* snip - Oh, oh... what's he been reading??? > This has had the following effect on yours truly.I now dont > give a flying fart about the environment,since I dont beleive snip - Mike, your an island of sanity in a sea of idiots! > happily motor round this fair land puthering out clouds of > unburnt diesel to my hearts content,rather than spending good snip - AS IS YOUR RIGHT > money on having the injectors seen to.The money I save thereby > I shall spend on cigarettes,which I shall continue to smoke, > with great enjoyment,only in increased quantities.I will *not* > subject my dogs to the indignities of worming,and shall encourage > them to tip their trucks wherever they feel like it. snip - "tip thier trucks" - we say "Look out for the land mines" here :) > The only "recycling" I shall now do is to continue to use seconhand > parts on the Land Rover.They can sort the bloody bottles into clear > and coloured themselves.I'm *extremely* happy to announce that the - Right! Get some of the bozo's off the dole and let 'em sort the refuse! > Limestone paint I used on the Land Rover wheels is lead based(and > therefore stands a better chance of staying put than the plastic > rubbish),and shall positively *encourage* all the obnoxious children > of my aquaintance to chew the wheels,provided the daft little buggers > leave the tyres alone.I've got plenty of paint left over.I'm debating > whether to install a coal fire at home,to be run with insufficient top - It's much better heat anyway... > air so it covers the surrouding washing with the soot so beloved of > those of us who grew up in the fifties and sixties.And I've *always* > been a fan of the steam locomotive.My brake linings will,from > henceforth be firmly asbestos based,and will probably last a lot > longer.The brakes will be applied *hard*,particularly when there are > passers by to cover in brake dust. > I'm cross,too. > Here, here.. Mike, I'm laughing so hard the tears are running down my face! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 00:29:07 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 01:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Toy Range Rovers To: BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO John pushes his Rangy through the mountains of paper on his desk... > Last year I was in France and while in Rouen, I spotted a Range > Rover model at a model/train shop (the Minitrain Shop). It is made by > Burago of Italy at 1/25 scale (@ 9 in long). Bonnet, tail gate, tail > window, and doors all work. Body is metal with plastic accessaries. > It is expedition equiped by ELF. It also has a roof rack with two > spare tires, petro cans, two tool kits w/tools, an undefined > barrel, Rhino guard, and four running lights. It's a great model snip! John, I picked up something similar at a model shop here in the US a few years ago. Also a Burago, 1/24 scale - but a Ser III 109. This was a kit, so I got to detail it a bit more than Burago had provided. It also has opening bonnet, doors and rear door, steering wheel (RHD) actually turns the wheels. Similar type of luggage rack & accessories. It came with really gaudy decals (Alitalia, Nestle, Agip, Carello with yellow & white stripes) which I did not use... Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 03:52:58 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:49:22 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:47:48 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: To Lead or Unlead Priority: normal Status: RO > Those readers of this list on the far side of the Puddle > might be interested in the latest findings of our ever > inane politicains and their even more incompetent "scientists". [ remove info about unleaded petrol ] (BTW: Unleaded contains benzine, causing leukimia. Leaded contains lead, which causes brain damage. Diesel, of course, carries the carcenagenic dust from everything else into your longs & also kills you :) [ remove Mikes Mad Rant ] The latest from the English (and I chose the name carefully) government is that a *3 year* study by an appointed committee has found that "the rise in cars is detrimental to the environment" (Mr Rooth! Stop that laughter!) The committee proposes (broadly): 1) The price of petrol should be doubled 2) The investment in new roads should be stopped 3) Public transport should be made cheaper, better and more frequent The government has taken the report and "will respond after a thoughtful and carefull revue". When asked how soon this response would be, the minister said that it would be a "considered and thoughtful response, thus not immediately" Don't you just love 'em....... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 04:43:20 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:39:00 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:37:17 +0000 Subject: Famous rover owners Priority: normal Status: RO Here is the current list of famous people with Land Rover vehicles (or good connections with them) Please send and additions/corrections to Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Windsor (et al) - Range Rovers, dicoveries and Defenders (numbers?) Queen Elizabeth - A Bronze Green 110 Defender (manual) John Rhys Davies owns four and he says he couldn't be bothered with the new Discos or Range Rovers (they're "devoid of panache"). His fleet includes: a IIa 109 with roof-tent in Kenya, an ex-RAF '88 110, a 109 Luten-body workshop vehicle with Lincoln arc-welder soon to be a 130" and an indeterminate 109 with advanced frame cancer (a "project vehicle"). The latter three are at his residence on the Isle of Mann. Ross Perot - Several -- Series IIa's and III's Kevin Costner - a black 88 (I, II, III, hybrid?) Sylvester Stallone - 109 Robin Williams - 90 Defender, but used to drive an 88 before Mork Oprah Winfre (sp?) - Defender (90/110?) Sean Connery. Defender 90 at his estate in Costa Brava, Spain. Confirmation please? Anika Rice (UK TV personality) - RR based dune-buggy (UFS 475 Y?). This may belong to the TV company though. Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman - Range Rover LWB Demi Moore and Bruce Willis - Range Rover LWB Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid - Range Rover LWB Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith - Range Rover LWB (Now split up? - who has the 'Rover?) Mel Gibson - Range Rover Michael Douglas - Range Rover Jane Fonda - Range Rover Emilio Estevez - Range Rover Patrick Swayze - Range Rover Jack Nicholson - Range Rover Stefanie Powers - Range Rover Michael J. Fox - Range Rover Rod Stewart - Range Rover Cher - Range Rover George Michael - Range Rover Barry Manilow - Range Rover Michael Jackson - Range Rover Rosanne Barr-Arnold - Range Rover Richard Branson - Range Rover (British Army Officer) Col. Hewitt - Range Rover Janet Jackson - Dicovery? (Gift from agent or someone) Sting - discovery ?Kath from EastEnders (UK)? - Range Rover <-- actually, it was her boyfriends. Robert Wagner - ? They Want... Ralph Lauren -- approached LRNA with the concept of a Ralph Lauren RR Chris Evert -- "Andy's [Mills] the art lover," says Chris. "I'd rather have a Range Rover than a $40,000 painting." ---------------------------------------------------------------- ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 26 19:20:39 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:44:22 GMT-0930 Subject: LRO Priority: normal Status: RO When we purchased our Discovery, we also started buying the LRO magazine. Thank goodness that soon after the LRW (Land Rover World) magazine came out. I got absolutely sick of reading about the self-ingratiating clap-trap adventures of the Editor and his mates. What a reptitious bore they are. The LRW is a superior magazine, well at least at the moment. Try it and see. Its also cheaper than LRO, so you reallly win both ways! Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 05:14:14 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: HRH visits The Colonies To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 10:10:41 GMT Status: RO Gentlemen,gentlemen,please.Cease this undignified squabbling! Hearken unto me.You're all due for a bitter disappointment. The lady in question positively *dislikes* the countryside. AND drives an Audi coupe.(Are Jon's ears *really* like that?) I should get 'em seen to,mate.As for Cavalrymen,Roy,I dont *quite* know how to break this gently,but.....she doesnt like horses,either. I'm sorry,chaps,strictly a city type this girl.You *may* just get a glance if seated in a LSE Range Rover,but dont hold your breath,you'll burst,like as not.Dont forget her Mother-in Law and family are keen users of the Solihull product,and they arent flavour of the month at present,I shouldnt think. Anyway,we saw her first,and we'd like her returned in good running order,please.None of this Wild Colonial Boy stuff.Try that on Fergie instead.She'd beat the lot of you at your own game! Dont worry about the Cav,Roy.Charles is Royal Navy.His mum owns it you know:-)Mind you,rumour has it his promotion prospects arent good at present........ Cheers Mike Rooth Pottering around emitting quantities of particulate emissions. In a word......Soot! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 05:53:26 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:50:05 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:48:33 +0000 Subject: Film: The Living Daylights Priority: normal Status: RO I watched this film again last weekend -- it has a few Rovers in it: In the openning scene, there is a 109 crossing the tarmac the first big chase/fight inolves a series III 88" (35 KA 42, I think) During the attack on the safe-house, there are a couple of 4-door rage rovers and finally, it looks like a LWB series (II, IIA or III) drives into the Russian air base (?) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 07:33:46 1994 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:20:19 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Jon & Di in Pittsburgh To: LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Content-Type: Text Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: >> (Are Jon's ears *really* like that?) I should get 'em seen to,mate. >> Sorry Jon. I should have clarified. ...without the dorky hair AND ears. >> As for Cavalrymen,Roy,I dont *quite* know how to break this gently,but.....she doesnt like horses,either. >> How very unroyalty like of her. She could have learned something from Cathrine the Great. >> None of this Wild Colonial Boy stuff.Try that on Fergie instead. She'd beat the lot of you at your own game! >> Even Steve Denis??? More Baloney from Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 07:38:38 1994 From: BwanaE@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:35:32 -0400 Sender: BwanaE@aol.com To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: OHV Parks and Trips Status: RO Morgan Hanniford: Toss my hat into the ring for a springtime northern california Landrover gaggle. We're located in Angels Camp, Ca. out in the Sierra foothills.... a Mendicino trip would be very close by. Keep us nor-cal netters posted. Eric Cope................. '64 SWB Regular w/ 2 1/4 petrol '67 LWB StationWagon w/ NADA 6-cyl From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 08:08:53 1994 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 08:46:44 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Encoding: 45 Text To: LRO@team.net Subject: Intro with Anecdote(s) Status: RO All, My name is Hank Lapa, new to this list as of yesterday, living in Maryland and working in Virginia. I have owned a 1960 Series II (not IIA) 109", 2.25 petrol, LHD, Station Wagon Deluxe for about seven years, ever since finding it derelict and undrivable in a bad part of town, in Jacksonville, Florida. Originally, this car was owned by the Sheriff of Duval County, Florida, who apparently had organized a 4WD posse to chase moonshine runners back to the Georgia border. After some time, it was bought by a fellow who had in previous years driven them in Viet Nam, where he was under contract building airfields. His sons drove the old gal pretty hard, until it would drive no more, and then she sat for God knows how long (though still registered) with the evidence of frequent brake fluid (wrong stuff no doubt) refills showing in the olive drab paint covering the original poppy red. (The Sheriff had changed the color.) The prior owner towed it for me to the sleepy little town of Green Cove Springs, Florida, where a fellow supposedly had Land-Rover mechanical experience. As it turns out, the gent rebuilding my brakes and accomplishing other basic necessities used to run 'shine from Georgia down into Florida. Perhaps he'd seen the headlights of this same car many years prior! Anyway, up here in the DC area, a place that does sandblasting and powder-coating for me told me a few years back that they had a L-R frame in for treatment, the vehicle being done up for none other than one Billy Joel. I heard that he didn't keep it for long; but some might argue that if you're not man enough to keep Christy Brinkley, you shouldn't be driving a Land-Rover (no offense indeed to the many very fine ladies of fortitude who also own and drive the legend.) My beast wears "Historic" Maryland tags, "XH558," in honor of the world's last airworthy (until last year) Vulcan bomber, which also came off the line in 1960, for delivery to the RAF. That's it for now, and I'll endeavour to keep future postings light, interesting, pertinent, and shorter than this note. Don't Wander, Rove PURPOSEFULLY! With best regards, Hank * * * * * * * * * * * * * From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 11:05:23 1994 Date: 27 Oct 94 11:47:58 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re:Fuel consumption Status: RO Country: Germany (united and broke) In Germany, and in Europe in general, the price of fuel *as such* is quite cheap, actually. Britain even is a major oil exporting country. The problem in Europe is *taxes-taxes-taxes*. In Germany, taxes (a special automotive fuel tax + VAT) make up 75% of the price of fuel the consumer has to pay. The tax also varies according to the type of fuel (leaded, unleaded, diesel, super/premium), therefore fuel prices at the stations are totally artificial (or 'political', if you will) and in no way reflect the real cost of fuel. Prices can also differ up to 10% regionally, with a noticeable increase from the nort-west (cheapest) to the south-east (expensive). The tax is federal and the same everywhere. The overall average prices are diesel US$ 0.76/litre unleaded regular (93-95) " 0.97/litre unleaded super (98) " 1.06/litre leaded super (99) " 1.12/litre Multiply those prices with 3.78 and you4ve got US$ per US gall. (hold your breath...) If none other comes to mind, there4s one reason for you to exclaim 4God Bless America4. Most gas stations have online credit card or eurocheque-card readers installed by now, as few drivers always carry the amounts of cash needed for a fill-up! Another reason is security: The average gas station, at the end of a busy day, would have as much cash in the register as your local bank teller... Gas station robberies are on the increase - no wonder. (The station robs the motorists, the crooks rob the stations, the government robs'em all) Always thirsting for petrol, Stefan LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 11:06:46 1994 Date: 27 Oct 94 11:48:37 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re:To Lead or Unlead Status: RO > the aforementioned politicians and scientists remain *totally* > UNdamaged,since their is no eveidence that they had a brain in > the first place. ROFL !!! > . They can sort the bloody bottles into clear > and coloured themselves. ... We have three bottle containers standing on a roundabout down the street (clear, brown and green). Thursday mornings the 'recycling' van pulls up, lifts up the clear-glass container and empties the contents into the van's loadspace. Next the brown glass container is picked and - crash...shatter - emptied into the van on top of the clear glass, and then likewise with the green glass. Finally, the van drives out to the municipal rubbish compound and dumps the whole lot. > Now,ladies and gentlemen,it may be told.Unleaded petrol is *bad* > for you.Apparently the connection between brain damage and lead Watch out, the next step will be a tax increase on the unleaded to raise its price level, on grounds of 'taxing the environmentally harmful'. A similiar trick was pulled by the german government three years ago with _diesel_ in this case. To encourage consumers to buy (new) environment- friendly cars, fuel taxes were adjusted (upwards) to reflect the respective harmfulness for the environment: Leaded - very bad, highly taxed; unleaded, not-so-bad, much less taxed; diesel - excellent! non-toxic emissions, and only very little tax. In addition, new cars meeting certain low-emission requirements were granted a 2-year exemption from vehicle registration tax, and new diesels *automatically* fell into that category. It is, of course, *pure coincidence* that the very same year Mercedes had launched a new big diesel sedan, and that the emission values of that model matched the new tax law's requirements precisely to the second decimal digit (honi soit qui mal y pense). What followed was, obviously, a big run for diesels. Barely three years later, when private diesels made out a hefty 30% of all cars registered, the government suddenly came up with a brand-new expertise, blasting diesel emissions as the worst thing next to agent orange and mustard-gas, and a major cause of respiratory diseases and cancer. The vehicle tax on private (i.e. non-truck) diesels was subsequently *trippled* because obviously, people driving such obnoxious cars must be punished! You now have a situation where, unless you drive more than 30,000 miles a year, it is cheaper in Germany to maintain a Range Rover V8 than to drive a 90 TDi, inspite of the forbidding price of petrol and the much higher consumption of the V8. All this is of course *very* good for the environment... As far as I figure, "environment" in the mouth of politicians is simply a synonym for $$$MONEY$$$ (rip-U-off while-U-wait). Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 12:15:55 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re:Fuel consumption To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com (Stefan R. Jacob) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 17:09:35 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <941027154758_100043.2400_BHJ63-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stefan R. Jacob" at Oct 27, 94 11:47 am Status: RO Stefan points out the German system of instant ripoff.We have the same thing(I wonder who first dreamed it up. Some newspaper recently worked out that the price of a gallon of jungle juice was about 39p a gallon (I think).Fuel tax goes on that,then VAT at 17.5% on the total,bringing it to over two quid a gallon. What amazes me is that the Chancellor of the Exchequer(motto, Whats Yours is Mine,Whats Mine's my Own),has the collosal stupidity to put up fuel prices(for environmental reasons,what else)and *then* to claim the increase is non-inflationery! >From which we gather that some method has been found,unknown to the general public,of running trucks,buses,farm machinery, and diesel locomotives on fresh air.Since,if that were so, breathing would be taxed at normal VAT rates,we are forced to conclude that he's just altered the statistics(again) to exclude transport costs. If there is a chemical engineer on the list,is it still true that Petroleum Spirit is the waste product you end up with at the end of the refining process,ie when everything else has been extracted from a given quantity of crude oil.'Cos if it *is*,they'd be in one hell of a mess if we didnt use the stuff wouldnt they? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 10:35:15 1994 To: LAND-ROVER-OWNER@TEAM.NET From: "Barry Dudley" Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 17:27:17 +200 Subject: Hi all and a bumper Question X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008 Status: RO Hello all, I am from South Africa (PIETERMARITZBURG) and have a S111 1983 LWB SW with a ford 3l V6 engine which i intend using for a trans africa trip in mid 1995. At the moment i am learning how to service it, slowly equiping it with the basic's for off road travel and having lot's of fun doing things my old golf just could not do!! The bumper was cut short (for boating purposes it appears) and i would like to put a strong, long bumper on in place of this, and have water transport capacity combined. There are two ways mentioned to do this: 1) Buy a 2nd hand bumper, weld a plate behind it, and get it galvanised; OR 2) Buy a water pipe (150 mm ID) which is galvanised, screw on ends with taps and just weld on atttachments and bolt that to the bumper. l l l _____________________________ l --- bolt bolt--- l*l l*l l------------------------------------- --------------------------------------l top tap bottom tap * = weld Both cost about the same, with the water pipe being stronger and having more water capacity (30l compared to 18l) much heavier. The questions i have for the group are: Has anyone else ever done this either of these two options? What happens to the front springs with the extra weight? Does using a water pipe create more problems than it solves, as a round pipe rather than the more desired flat bumper? What length is advisable? I am currently thinking of 1.7M, so that there is total protection to the LR in the case of an accident. For the converted bumper I would use 2mm (as it just has to hold in water) but with the water pipe what thickness would be required for the joining metal between bumper and chassis? With the water pipe would it be better to have screw on ends or to weld it closed? Where would be the best place for the taps? I thought of putting them near the ends, but if one hits something (especially with the lower tap) it might not work as well, at the end of the pipe or actually in the pipe. In the latter case a screw on end would not work. Of course - is there a third better option I have not thought of? Any comments, suggestions and advice would be appeciated. Barry Dudley DUDLEY@MICR.UNP.AC.ZA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 12:22:17 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:03:09 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: "W. Ray Gibbons" (by way of hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)) Subject: LR as prosthetic 2ndary sexual characteristic Status: RO As posted on the British Car list . . . Oh, please, TeriAnn, don't throw me to the LR list. I have enough enemies on the Volvo list. When one is in the proper frame of mind, the chassis has just been greased, and selective deafness has been achieved during many miles at the wheel, I am sure the difference between a Land Rover and a Bentley is hardly noticable. I would like one, but not because it is an ideal highway cruiser. I am upfront about it--I would like one as an image builder. In my mind's eye... ******************************* Debra Winger fanned herself as she hung the laundry on the line. As she pinned up the last of the wash, a dusty, battered Land Rover turned into the drive. The throaty roar of its engine echoed from the side of the barn. It rattled to a halt, coughed, backfired, and died. A man emerged. He was sweaty and none too clean. Several Kodak instamatics hung from his ample neck. As he hobbled nearer, Debra thought, "His body seems soft, pale, wrinkled. Plump and insistent, even though he must be over 50. Well over 50! Look at him move...like a guernsey...no a holstein...no, no, that's not it, like a lynx, that's it...a pregnant middle-aged lynx...or maybe a MERCURY Lynx!" "I'm Raybert Kingibbons," the stranger intoned, in a voice that could lure doves from their cote, "may I take off my shirt? Dusty, battered Land Rovers don't have air conditioning, and my paramilitary shirt is sticking to my sagging pects." Debra struggled to catch her breath. She couldn't have said whether it was Kingibbons himself, the charismatic Land Rover, or exactly what, but she had never felt quite like this before... Ray Gibbons Dept. of Molecular Physiology & Biophysics Univ. of Vermont College of Medicine, Burlington, VT gibbons@northpole.med.uvm.edu (802) 656-8910 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 13:58:50 1994 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 11:54:21 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Picking on Land Rovers Status: RO Hi gang, while people are discussing the merrits of various Land Rover toys, and living fantacies on the land rover mail list, there is a thread going on the british car mail list you might find interesting. The original question is how usable is a Land Rover on the road and is it suited for taking long trips. SO far I'm the only one saying they are usable on long trips, and even usable on the road. The engines are quiet if the exhaust system is intact. It's worn gears & noisy tyres that create racket. Two postings are below. Please feel free to provide your expertiese ;*) british-cars@autox.team.net > Kendall Robinson asked about the useability of Land Rovers on the road. > Well, these guys are the people who parodied the Rolls "God this car's > quiet" ad with "at 50 mph, all you can hear is the engine." But they are > quite useable, much like a 1950 Chev pickup is useable. I wouldn't take it > on a trip, or go to the opera (okay, I wouldn't go to the opera anyway) but > I'd definatly drive it everywhere else. I think 10K is a bit steep, unless > it has been very well maintained/restored. > I might as well step in, having once driven a Land Rover several > miles. Several years ago, I learned that a friend was moving to CA and > selling her 73 LR 88. She had had it from new, and it was low mileage > (driven only in winter, when her other oddball car was laid up). If I > wanted it, I could grab her vanity plate, DAWG (she had always wanted a > Rover named Dog, but DOG was already taken). > > My daughter and I took it for a test ride. I have been in noisy, harsh > riding vehicles before, but this was a new high. At the first dip in the > road, my daughter claimed whiplash. Anything over 50 mph was something of > an adventure, given harsh springs, short wheelbase, and narrow track. > Splashing through puddles gave much the same sound as one might imagine > going over Niagra Falls in an unpadded barrel. I wanted it, if only > because it would look *magnificent* in the driveway. Elizabeth hated it, > and since she was to share whatever I bought, I conceded. > > I still think the Rover is nifty, and I'd like to have one, but older ones > sure aren't suited for long drives on the interstate. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 15:48:48 1994 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:41:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Picking on Land Rovers In-Reply-To: <9410271854.AA22986@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 27 Oct 1994, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > The original question is how usable is a Land Rover on the road and is it suited > for taking long trips. SO far I'm the only one saying they are usable on long > trips, and even usable on the road. The engines are quiet if the exhaust system > is intact. It's worn gears & noisy tyres that create racket. Two postings are > below. Please feel free to provide your expertiese ;*) Hmmm, well I feel I have a little experience to add to this debate. Four years ago I drove my 1967 88' (full length canvas, 7.50x16 tyres, working overdrive, and good stereo) around the USA. I drove about 15,000 miles in about 6 weeks. I drove on interstate highways (keeping up with the main bit of traffic, although not racing the hot rods) and on back roads and on no roads at all. The truck held up quite well, I was comfortable (except for a blizzard in Montana when I didn't have my Canvas on tightly enough), and I really enjoyed the trip. So did my dog. Sure, sure, so that was a vacation and vacations are not a fair comparison to everyday, real life driving. When I came home to Vermont I took a job driving all around the west side of the state. I averaged 200 miles a day, 4-5 days a week and I did this job for nearly 4 years driving my Land Rover on Intersate highways, back roads, and no roads at all. Whenever Federales or University bigwigs came to visit our programs they were sent out on the road with me, in the Land Rover, to see the state. I never received any complaints about the ride. (they were probably terrified speechless and unable to voice a complaint...). Certainly Land Rovers are not for everyone. If you want to be buffered and insulated from the world; if you want to be totally unaware of what you are driving or even that you are driving; if you want to feel like you are at home on the couch watching a video of the world go by.... ...then buy a car. i've been driving a land rover for over 15 years and i like the damn things a lot. jan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 16:28:42 1994 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 15:18:56 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Picking on Rovers Status: RO Jan, RIGHT ON! But blizzards are not normal weather in Montana. We still don't have snow down below and not much up in the mountains. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 22:04:07 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: OFFICIALLY-UNOFFICIAL TRIP To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1555 Status: RO So, it looks as though a spring dirt fest is being tossed around as a No.Cal. netters get together. Mendocino National Forest seems to be an ideal area; lots of rural to semi-rural camping areas. So far we have interest from: Granville, Terry-Ann, Eric Cope and me (Morgan H.). I'm sure other extended bay area folks will be interested, even the "e-mail challenged". Looking at my handy-dandy Mendo-Nat-Forest map it looks as though, depending of the weather, many campground/day use/OHV use areas are open around March-April. My experience up there, I used to work in Covelo (don't be sorry), is that many dirt roads are shut down during winter to prevent erosion/people getting stuck. Also, considering the current state of Granville's and Terry-Ann's Land-Rovers we don't want big fix-it jobs to be rushed. How about we shoot for March 1995. This will give time to tell people not on the net, get trucks in tip-top shape, and maybe make some reservations depending on how many vehicles are interested. Something like a weekend would be nice (i.e. meet on Friday night/Sat. morning at a campground; drive around Saturday; tell tales and top up the 90wt. Saturday night; drive more Sunday; then drive home). CB's could be used so vehicles could locate the party at any time over the weekend. We can pick the actual date later on depending on individual schedules. I'm excited already! A nice change from parking the truck on the lawn at a British car meet. Give an e-mail if your interested- Morgan Hannaford U.C. Berzerkeley '69 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 00:10:50 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 23:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Hi all and a bumper Question To: DUDLEY@gate2.cc.unp.ac.za, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"DUDLEY@gate2.cc.unp.ac.za" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Barry... Can't say that I ever heard of using the front bumper as a water container but it sounds like a neet idea - it certainly is "roveresque"! A lot of older trucks with the headlights in the radiator cowl were rigged to carry jerry cans on top of the bumper, flat up against the front wings. I'll let you do the weight conversions for 10 gallons vs 30l. As a comparison, lots of people run Koenig winches up front and it takes two men and a boy to lift one of those! I don't think the added weight will cause you any grief. For the spigots, I would worry about having the lower one out underneath, near the end of the tube/bumper. More to the middle would probably be safer. Good luck with it! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 27 18:41:55 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: LRO@TEAM.NET Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:08:30 GMT-0930 Subject: DISCOVERY CUBBY BOX Priority: normal Status: RO Why would anyone buy a cuby box? The spot it occupies is perfect for mounting a C.B. or UHF radio for communications between club vehicles. I also mount the remote head for my HF radio there. Running the cables is very easy to that point. Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 06:47:21 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 07:36:15 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Jon's Steering Relay To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu, LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Content-Type: Text Status: RO Jon Writes: >> Hey Bill, You were asking about the steering relay. Yea I did get the top arm loose, just as you said. I took out the 4 bolts that hold the top retaining plate. Then I checked each hole and "not one" was drilled or bored all the way through, they were all blind flat bottom threaded holes. So I cleaned up the sealing permatex or whatever that some one had used to try to make up for the missing gasket and oiled it as best I could. It worked pretty good but it's still binding up occasionaly. You aren't going to believe this but I think the temperature affects it. When it gets above 60 degrees it seems to bind more. Like in the morning when it's cold it is free as hell. I park it at work and go out at five and it's bound up again. I know you think I'm nuts but I've been mechanikin for 26.7325 years now and I ain't never seen nuttin lik dis. I'll live with it for awhile till it gets to be too much cause it's colder now and it's acting a lot looser. >> Has anyone else found a relay where the top plate securing bolt holes were not drilled through? I have found that either all or at least the side holes were, but Jon is finding that they are all blind. My first thought is that the shaft thrust washer or bush is flush up against the holes, but I haven't rebuilt one myself. Oh, Jon's relay does not have the shaft drilled and tapped and he does keep his steering box and swivel housings full. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com (I finally got a message with a usable return address) OOPS! Jon, does your relay have another screw in the side of the housing at the top where the raised boss is (LH-Drivers side)? Yes, I know, I didn't mention this the first time (and I didn't look at the Mid Atlantic Meet). I can't say I've ever laid eyes on one but I have seen it set up this way in the manual). Have a look if you brought it to work. Oh, did you try pulling the bottom bolt (LH Drivers side) to see if anything drains out? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 07:45:38 1994 Date: 28 Oct 94 08:38:00 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: The Living Daylights Status: RO Ian: There is also a 110 Defender "Converted" to look like a Russian GAZ jeep in one of the scenes. As memory serves, "Bond" Prachutes in the Land Rover/Gaz out the back of a C130, lands on the highway, smashes through a stone wall and says "I know a great restaurant in Kurachi." Regards, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 07:44:10 1994 To: LAND-ROVER-OWNER@TEAM.NET From: "Barry Dudley" Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 14:36:19 +200 Subject: MY FIRST TIME REALLY STUCK IN A LR X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 2.01a - 1008 Status: RO Hello netters, I took my two dogs in the LR for a walk along a local river, which had recently been drained and dredged. Parked the LR on what "appeared" dry sand next to the river and walked away to watch the sun set.... On my return found that it had sunk in a little, so engaged 4WD, put some sticks under the wheels and tried to drive her out. WRONG - did not work, wheels just spun round. Offers of assistance were turned down as i would just use the hi-lift, dig a little round the wheels, put logs under it and drive away. WRONG - It is now dark and call in a "4WD team" - dug out the wheels, got railway sleepers under them and a pull from a land cruiser but to no avail (did move 2M!). Finally - it has now been 7 hrs and we give in - call the AA who use a single truck to pull LR out. WRONG - called up a 2nd truck and with both finally got her out! Other than a very bruised EGO, a lighter wallet and lot's of mud everywhere no damage was done at all. WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THIS - Do not take any situation lightly -treat it as if you are on a CAMEL trip; do not try drive out until you are damm sure it will work or you dig your self in deeper and accept all offers of assistance! "Wiser at the end of a long day" Barry Dudley From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 08:59:22 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Jon's Steering Relay To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 13:51:27 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "maloney" at Oct 28, 94 7:36 am Status: RO I offer this with a certain degree of trepidation,but..... Is it at all possible that a PO has had the steering relay off,and replaced it upside down? Dont shoota da gun.. Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 09:02:43 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: The Living Daylights To: 70004.4011@compuserve.com (R. Pierce Reid) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 13:56:29 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <941028123800_70004.4011_FHT53-3@CompuServe.COM>; from "R. Pierce Reid" at Oct 28, 94 8:38 am Status: RO > > Ian: > > There is also a 110 Defender "Converted" to look like a Russian GAZ jeep in one > of the scenes. As memory serves, "Bond" Prachutes in the Land Rover/Gaz out the > back of a C130, lands on the highway, smashes through a stone wall and says "I > know a great restaurant in Kurachi." > > Regards, > > R. P. Reid > > > Sounds like the OVLR.*No* obstacle allowed to stand between them and the pub.... Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 10:19:56 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Famous rover owners To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Mr Ian Stuart) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 8:13:05 PDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "Mr Ian Stuart" at Oct 27, 94 9:37 am Status: RO j> > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Windsor (et al) - Range Rovers, dicoveries and Defenders > (numbers?) > Queen Elizabeth - A Bronze Green 110 Defender (manual) According to my Mom, I have some releatives across the pond who retired from landrover. One of their functions was to insure the Queens Range Rover was up to snuff. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 10:46:52 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 11:40:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Jon's Steering Relay In-Reply-To: <9410281351.AA02522@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Status: RO Mike suggests: >I offer this with a certain degree of trepidation,but..... >Is it at all possible that a PO has had the steering relay >off,and replaced it upside down? >Dont shoota da gun.. >Mike Rooth Mike, thanks for the suggestion, but by the way the relay is constructed putting it in upside down would be impossible. The way the main housing is cast the two mounting bolts can only be inserted if it is installed to line up with the mounting brackets. This is correct on my truck. It seems to be binding up internaly. Some one has had the thing apart before, so probably I will end up having to tear it apart and put it back together with all the correct parts. It presently is missing the top retainer gasket, and from what I can tell it's also missing the oil seal at the top. Don't know what else? WAIT--STOP I just thought of something, maybe without the gasket it is drawing the top retainer down too tight, causing it to bind. I'm sure going to try that. SO it looks like another Saturday and Sunday are dedicated to Land Rover Renewal but then I love it. It keeps me off the streets or chasing immoral women, but only till next week. PS Don't tell Di. Thanks a lot Jon PPS Bill, I checked that too, The boss on the top drivers side. It is not a plug It is a solid casting. I'll figure this out if it kills me. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 11:57:49 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re:Fuel consumption From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:23:46 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> writes: > diesel US$ 0.76/litre > unleaded regular (93-95) " 0.97/litre > unleaded super (98) " 1.06/litre > leaded super (99) " 1.12/litre The numbers in the brackets I presume are the octane levels. Is this the R+M/2 octane level? If so, you have some pretty potent stuff compared to, this particular part of, Canada. Unleaded super is 92 octane here. Sunoco has their "Ultra" at 94, but at a significant premium. 98 or 99 has not been seen for decades, (almost) Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 11:28:05 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:23:00 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: lro & military Land Rovers Status: RO I don't subscribe to LRW (yet), but I do enjoy the "Overland" articles in LRO. I'm not very technical, so a magazine full of "here's how you rebuild this doo-hickey" articles wouldn't be too interesting to me. I don't mind them, but what would *really* interest me is articles on neat ways people have set-up or modified their land rovers. As for the military, I like the photos, but I can't get too interested in the military; I'm one of those San Francisco ultra-liberals who thinks Barney is actually Rush Limbaugh in drag. Sorry. Mind you, as long as the military is using Rovers, especially modified ones, I think there should be plenty of coverage. (Heck send him over here -- our military seems to think they're still at war with someone.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 11:30:16 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:23:06 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Dormobiles Status: RO My only comment is don't worry about the appearance. Paint is cheap, transmissions, engines, and frames aren't. A vehicle that's been prettied up, should have the guts to match. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 11:54:56 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: parcival.chinalake.navy.mil: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Picking on Land Rovers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Oct 1994 11:54:21 PDT." Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:42:09 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO > The original question is how usable is a Land Rover on the road and is it > suited for taking long trips. SO far I'm the only one saying they are usable > on long trips, and even usable on the road. Let's see. My SIII 88 and I have travel quite a bit around the coutry. I've driven it from NJ to Pasadena, CA (2700 miles for the nonUS folks) or Pasadena to NJ 7 times, taking about 3.5 days each trip. I've taken it from Pasadena to Salt Lake City and back (to ski at Alta) and to Colorado and back (skiing Keystone, Arapahoe Basin, etc) because I'd rather drive the Rover in the snow than be in the backseat when some yahoo from California is trying drive on snow in his Camaro with racing tires. (Luckily I wasn't *stupid* enough to drive with him. Also, I know that there are a lot of California folks that can drive in snow, I haven't run into to many of them.) So I think that they are fine road vehicles. The only grip is that the 88 has only enough space for two people and their cargo (and parts, tools, etc.) I've done 4, but two of them we small frosh. If you carry two jerry cans and stick to 55 mph (and the engine is running well) you can go 300 to 400 miles between gass stations. So all in all, I think they are fine for long road trips. If you want to have creature comforts like a stereo, get a powerful one. Remember, I'm silly enough to be driving every weekend down to Pasadena and back (150 miles each way). Benjamin Smith bens@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil 1972 SIII 88 (saving up to get a 109) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 12:55:38 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 13:44:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: High-wattage reverse lights, gear oil To: Land Rover BBS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 559 Status: RO Now that the flaming has subsided regarding us yuppie-mudfearing-testosterone deficient-greaseless-mechanic hiring RR/D90/Disco owners, I think it's safe to post a question or two. I've been tempted to replace the standard reverse lights on my Disco for higher wattage ones. However, the manual has a generic warning about replacing any bulb with a brighter one. Has anyone done this? Second, question: any recs for synthetic 90W? I've seen Mobil 1 75W90. Thanks. Harry Greenspun 94 Discovery "Finally got a new one, now I need an old one." From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 13:48:42 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: High-wattage reverse lights, gear oil To: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (Harry Greenspun) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 14:45:24 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "Harry Greenspun" at Oct 28, 94 1:44 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Now that the flaming has subsided regarding us > yuppie-mudfearing-testosterone deficient-greaseless-mechanic hiring > RR/D90/Disco owners, I think it's safe to post a question or two. > I've been tempted to replace the standard reverse lights on my Disco > for higher wattage ones. However, the manual has a generic warning about > replacing any bulb with a brighter one. Has anyone done this? ......oh, yeah, I forgot about that......all you RR/D90/Disco owners have those wimpy reverse lights that illuminate the trees you are about to back into (or maybe just the mercedes in your driveway)......whilst we *real (wo)men* have mastered the "drive by feel" approach to backing up in the bush......and should we get a new dent, well, we just don't give a...... blah,blah,blah, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 14:16:12 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Hi all and a bumper Question From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:12:27 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LANDROVER@delphi.com writes: > Can't say that I ever heard of using the front bumper as a water container > but it sounds like a neet idea - it certainly is "roveresque"! Hmmm, never seen water done. I have seen the bumper replaced with a 1/4" walled steel tube and the tube used as a hydraulic fluid resevoir. An interesting idea. Rgds, PS. Yeah the Koenigs are heavy, far to heavy... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 14:35:40 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: anybody out there??? To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 15:26:44 EDT Status: RO Is it just me, or is there a problem with the list? Is it my breath?? Something I said?? Sorry. Tom Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu King George, Va. '66' IIA 88 RHD From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 14:38:51 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Oct 94 07:55:22 GMT." <199410280755.HAA15460@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 21:31:20 +0200 From: Paul Nash Status: RO > From: "Barry Dudley" > 2) Buy a water pipe (150 mm ID) which is galvanised, screw on > ends with taps and just weld on atttachments and bolt that to the > bumper. I'd be wary of putting too much weight in front. I recently broke 1 1/2 of my front springs in Zambia, and it wasn't pleasant :-(. This was with weight mostly in the back -- I didn't even have a spare on the nose! Another potential problem is that you could easily lose your water supply (or part thereof) if you hit anything. In a place like Botswana I'd rather loose a headlight than 30l of water. For what it's worth, I use 25l plastic containers (from the local co-op), which go on the roof when empty, or inside, behind the bulkhead, when full. They're easy to fill, easy to empty, can be put in the shade, etc. All in all, I'd just look for a second-hand bumper -- the rest sounds like _far_ too much work for too little gain. Rather put the time and effort into rebuilding the axles, stocking up on spares or making a roof-rack. After all that, enjoy the trip! It's the kind of thing that everyone should have an opportunity to do. Just don't forget the anti-malarial drugs (Lariam or nivaquine/paludrine, _NOT_ daraclor!). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 14:37:05 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 14:26:18 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: That popping, semi-backfiring sound Status: RO Petrol 2.25 liter - Weber carb- Not that I'm sure if this is any big deal or not - but when I come off the gas and I'm going at a good clip there is a lot of what sounds like backfiring going on at the rear end. Not quite as loud really but a lot of burbling. Is this normal? It seems that it has been that way for a long time. Is the carb set up wrong? And one more thing - what is the best way to fix (I'm crossing my fingers here that this is not true) a leaking gas tank. I haven't pinned it down but there might be some very small preforation on the front side somewhere above the brackets that bolt to the frame. Whatever it is it isn't major. I checked the top of the tank and all seems to be well there. What about that two part epoxy plugger stuff (to plug it from the outside) ? Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 15:14:48 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 15:50:39 EDT From: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" To: lro@team.net Apparently-To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: That popping, semi-backfiring sound Status: RO >Not that I'm sure if this is any big deal or not - but when I come off the >gas and I'm going at a good clip there is a lot of what sounds like >backfiring going on at the rear end. Not quite as loud really but a lot of >burbling. Is this normal? It seems that it has been that way for a long >time. Is the carb set up wrong? There's no decel shutoff on the basic Weber carb (assuming 34ICH, here) so if you're moving at speed and let off the throttle you pull a very nice vacuum in the manifold which dumps plenty of fuel into the engine giving you a nice burbly, carbonaceous exhaust. If you're running it rich, it just gets worse. Deceleration shutoff valves were one of the first pollution control measures implemented for carburettors. To reduce the effect, use the clutch when you get off of the gas to allow the engine to drop to idle speed quickly. monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 16:00:38 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:40:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (Harry Greenspun), "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: High-wattage reverse lights, gear oil Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410281843.OAA15878@transfer.stratus.com> Status: RO Russell, don't you know that it is enviromentaly unkind to throw gasoline on smouldering embers. You naughty chap. Tsk, Tsk, >> Now that the flaming has subsided regarding us >> yuppie-mudfearing-testosterone deficient-greaseless-mechanic hiring >> RR/D90/Disco owners, I think it's safe to post a question or two. >......oh, yeah, I forgot about that......all you RR/D90/Disco owners >have those wimpy reverse lights that illuminate the trees you are about >to back into (or maybe just the mercedes in your driveway)......whilst >we *real (wo)men* have mastered the "drive by feel" approach to backing >up in the bush......and should we get a new dent, well, we just don't >give a...... blah,blah, and more blah Have a nice fire later Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 16:03:43 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: OFFICIALLY-UNOFFICIAL TRIP (fwd) To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 13:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1250 Status: RO Forwarded message: >From bens@parcival.chinalake.navy.mil Fri Oct 28 11:39:06 1994 Message-Id: <199410281836.LAA23253@parcival.chinalake.navy.mil> X-Authentication-Warning: parcival.chinalake.navy.mil: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: OFFICIALLY-UNOFFICIAL TRIP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:00:33 PDT." Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 11:36:56 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith > So, it looks as though a spring dirt fest is being tossed around > as a No.Cal. netters get together. Mendocino National Forest seems > to be an ideal area; lots of rural to semi-rural camping areas. > > How about we shoot for March 1995. This will give time to tell people > not on the net, get trucks in tip-top shape, and maybe make some > reservations depending on how many vehicles are interested. Something > Give an e-mail if your interested- Tell give me hard dates and locations and I'll show up. If anyone wants to do some driving on the east side of the Rockies, give me a call Benjamin Smith Science Applications Internation Corp UNIX system support for China Lake Naval Air Weapons Center bens@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 16:49:41 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: parcival.chinalake.navy.mil: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: I have moved Reply-To: bens@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 14:42:56 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Well, I have finally set up shop in California. For those of you who want to find me, my snailmail address is 269 E. Upjohn Ridgecrest, CA 93555 (619)-375-3011 -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications Internation Corporation bens@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil bens@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 17:10:33 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: That popping, semi-backfiring sound To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) (Greg Hiner) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 18:08:20 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "Greg Hiner" at Oct 28, 94 2:26 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Greg Hiner asks: > > Petrol 2.25 liter - Weber carb- > > > Not that I'm sure if this is any big deal or not - but when I come off the > gas and I'm going at a good clip there is a lot of what sounds like > backfiring going on at the rear end. Not quite as loud really but a lot of > burbling. Is this normal? It seems that it has been that way for a long > time. Is the carb set up wrong? > Nigel doesn't actually backfire under these circumstances, but he does tend to gurgle a bit....a few misfires, actually. I attribute this to either carburation (a rochester I've yet to open), slop in the valve timing (although when I visited my timing chain awhile back all seemed tight), or distributor slop (even though at just off idle the timing marks seem *relatively* stable when viewed with a light). This problem (and my solution) are not at all unlike that which I have with my two stroke twin ('79 Yamaha RD400F, in pristine condition that only fell over once and has otherwise never been off two wheels except for when only riding on one by intention). It (no name nor gender) *hates* to run at constant speed or slow down-otherwise it bucks and sputters like all hell......so alls I do is keep the throttle open! > And one more thing - what is the best way to fix (I'm crossing my fingers > here that this is not true) a leaking gas tank. I haven't pinned it down > but there might be some very small preforation on the front side somewhere > above the brackets that bolt to the frame. Whatever it is it isn't major. I > checked the top of the tank and all seems to be well there. What about that > two part epoxy plugger stuff (to plug it from the outside) ? > The stuff you are referring to is "JB-weld". It is amazing stuff. I've repaired (or seen repaired) gastanks, radiators (I fixed a 12" blown seam in a radiator on a Dart I once had and nearly blew up), crankcases, cylinder heads (yes!-fixed the head on the '39 ford 9N ten plus years ago and it is still holding...granted it only sees about a 3:1 compression ratio), and more. Surely the more puritan members of this list may disagree, and tell you to remove the tank, wash it generously with mineral spirits, let it completely dry out in the hot sun (which you do still have down there), then have it welded (ie do the job *right*), but hey-you've only got the weekend and you'd like to enjoy it. Get some JB weld and schibe the thing. Then grab a cold frosty and go see "mr feel good". rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 18:21:03 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:15:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: BwanaE@aol.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: OHV Parks and Trips Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Eric Cope writes: >Toss my hat into the ring for a springtime northern california Landrover >gaggle. We're located in Angels Camp, Ca. out in the Sierra foothills.... a >Mendicino trip would be very close by. Keep us nor-cal netters posted. > >Eric Cope................. '64 SWB Regular w/ 2 1/4 petrol > '67 LWB StationWagon w/ NADA 6-cyl > Cool, who'da thunk someone from a bitchin' place like Angels Camp would come looking for four-wheeling spots in Mendocino NF? This is beginning to sound like Much Fun. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 18:19:12 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:15:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Lapa, Hank" From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Intro with Anecdote(s) Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Hank Lapa wrote: > > Don't Wander, Rove PURPOSEFULLY! I say, if not wander, why rove? (But, of course, tread lightly...) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 18:21:17 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:15:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Morgan Hannaford From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: OFFICIALLY-UNOFFICIAL TRIP Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Morgan Hannaford writes: >So, it looks as though a spring dirt fest is being tossed around >as a No.Cal. netters get together. Mendocino National Forest seems >to be an ideal area; lots of rural to semi-rural camping areas. >So far we have interest from: Granville, Terry-Ann, Eric Cope and >me (Morgan H.). I'm sure other extended bay area folks will be >interested, even the "e-mail challenged". Yes, I think I can round up several here in Mendocino County, as well as John Kirn, Lynn Helm, Domingos Dias (Camel 110), and probably a few of the farther flung of the "sniveller" group (as Cap'n Camo, aka Gordon Kallio) likes to call 'em... Maybe, Morgan, you and I and a couple of other locals could go sooner and scout the route. I've been on parts of it but need to see some other parts and check out the trails which branch off into the boonies. I have heard that there is a particularly high-pucker-factor trail from Howard Lake to Anthony Peak which we should definitely check out. And we should run some of the trails at the off-road use area at Middle Creek. Interested? If I can't take my Rover, I could ride with you or one of the locals. >How about we shoot for March 1995. This will give time to tell people >not on the net, get trucks in tip-top shape, and maybe make some >reservations depending on how many vehicles are interested. Something >like a weekend would be nice (i.e. meet on Friday night/Sat. morning at >a campground; drive around Saturday; tell tales and top up the 90wt. >Saturday night; drive more Sunday; then drive home). CB's could be used >so vehicles could locate the party at any time over the weekend. >We can pick the actual date later on depending on individual schedules. Well, yeah, March would be great, as far as I am concerned, but if so, everyone would need to be equipped with adequate recovery gear (I promise to mount my new 12,000# winch) and be prepared for camping in heavy rain and/or snow (I like it). On the previous trip that I mentioned (with the snivellers), we got snowed on pretty thoroughly, at Plaskett Meadows (6,000 feet), on the 28th of May! It can happen. I loved it; not everyone did... Also a distinct possibility that many routes will not be open by March (although if like 1994, they probably would be). Hey, I don't mind "opening" a few... On the otherhand, Memorial Day weekend, when we had the other trip, conflicts with too many other events, so I would prefer sooner than that (that conflict was what mainly killed a repeat the next year). >I'm excited already! A nice change from parking the truck on the lawn >at a British car meet. Hear, hear! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 18:19:51 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:16:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: KMWHEELER@ualr.edu From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land Rovers Cc: lro@team.net, british-cars@autox.team.net Status: RO Keith, of Arkansas, writes; >My SO and I have been looking at jeeps. Living in Arkansas with all those >national forest roads and having our love for camping creates such insane >notions. Our only camping vehicle is a VW Baja which will go asnywhere a >Jeep will at a 10th the price and 10 times the reliability, but just isn' >t as cool as a real adventure vehicle. While attending a rendevous at >a local park the other day we saw the most beautiful land rover that a >park ranger had restored...much better than a jeep! /what a way to go >wandering about in the woods! And, it may be loud, uncomfortable, slow, etc. >But can it be any worse than a Baja Bug with a zero to 70 time of 50 seconds? About right; the acceleration of a Land-Rover 88, four-cylinder, has been compared semi-favorably with that of a loaded gravel truck. But you're right: It is a wonderful way to wander the woods. I have done a lot of wandering the woods in stock VWs, a "Baja" VW (1953), many different kinds of 4x4s, and in Land-Rovers beyond count. The only thing I'd take over an old Land-Rover is--maybe, only maybe--a new Land-Rover (U.S.-spec Defender 90, that is), although I wouldn't mind trying it, just once, in a Mercedes Unimog or in a Steyr-Daimler-Puch Pinzgauer... Sounds to me as if you have been smitten... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 18:22:23 1994 Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:18:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land-Rovers (still) Cc: lro@team.net, british-cars@autox.team.net Status: RO Daryl Webb writes: >Like Granville its >Lurk-mode off for me to defend the honour of our beloved >Land-rover no less. Looks like TerriAnn needs all the help she can get! > >Whilst I will admit that a Land-Rover at speed is a trifle noisy, the ride is >much better than other vehicles of a similar nature. Go for a ride in an >Un-modified Land-Cruiser of Nissan Patrol with leaf springs. On the >bitumen/tar the two are about the same but on rough dirt roads the Land-rover >is streaks ahead. On rough tracks point to point times in old Land-rovers >are as good or better than many of the more modern vehicles. > >I will also conceed that the "rover-type" rear axle of the pre-series III's >is fragile. but so is the early 4sp Land-cruiser transfer case. I'd rather >blow an axle that I can fix than a transfer case that I cant. ( of course >I'd rather not blow anything... That why I've got a stage I (series III V8) > > >As for lang distance travelling, well the stage I has done over 200,000 K in >the last 6 years, 1000 + km (600+ mile) Days are not uncommon (mind you they >are not common either). If you want to tour long distances in and old Landy >get an Overdrive, they help more with the noise that anything else. > > >Granvile. I've seen 3.5 rover V8's (215 buick's) in series Landys' >They are a bit hard on the G/box-transfer-case if not used carefully. I >think Mark's 4x4 (OZ) makes an adapter. (The address has been posted on >LRO@team.net, but I could find it if you have lots of time :-) >A Champ ?? You are a sick puppy arent you..... :-) Yes... I... am... >Go on TerriAnn throw Ray to the Crazy Canucks on LRO. Though for his sake >perhaps you'd better conceal his identity! She did, she did. Heh, heh... 8~{> I love Land-Rovers (a lot) but the old four-cylinder, leaf-sprung ones are not my choice for driving long distances, probably partly because She Who Must Be Obeyed would refuse to come... Hmmm, maybe they ARE a good choice... ;*> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 28 20:39:33 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 02:34:43 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Intro with Anecdote(s) To: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9409277832.AA783273755@Zeus.signalcorp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Welcome Hank! (and hi netters). On Thu, 27 Oct 1994, Lapa, Hank wrote: [snip] > Anyway, up here in the DC area, a place that does sandblasting and > powder-coating for me told me a few years back that they had a L-R > frame in for treatment, the vehicle being done up for none other than > one Billy Joel. I heard that he didn't keep it for long; but some > might argue that if you're not man enough to keep Christy Brinkley, > you shouldn't be driving a Land-Rover (no offense indeed to the many > very fine ladies of fortitude who also own and drive the legend.) [schnipp] I vaguely remember a music video showing a 90" driving around and wading across a river. Also the camera "accidentally" caught the logo they put on the side of the grille nowadays. Could this be a Billy Joel video?? > Don't Wander, Rove PURPOSEFULLY! > With best regards, > Hank > * * * * * * * * * * * * * +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 01:18:18 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 02:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: High-wattage reverse lights, gear oi To: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Harry sez... > I've been tempted to replace the standard reverse lights on my Disco > for higher wattage ones. However, the manual has a generic warning about > replacing any bulb with a brighter one. Has anyone done this? The generic warning is probably due to: 1. The demon Joe Lucas -or- B. The fear of melting the plastic housings. :) As an alternative, you could check out your local Central Tractor (or whatever similar agricultural store) and pick up a tractor flood light. Mount the bugger up high on the back somewhere. Tons of light! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 01:18:16 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 02:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: That popping, semi-backfiring sound To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"hiner@mail.utexas.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Greg ponders.... > And one more thing - what is the best way to fix (I'm crossing my fingers > here that this is not true) a leaking gas tank. I haven't pinned it down > but there might be some very small preforation on the front side somewhere > above the brackets that bolt to the frame. Whatever it is it isn't major. Tell you what I've seen here in NY (the land of eternal rust). There is a outer "shell" around the lower half of the front, bottom and rear or the tank. It's a thicker metal than the tank, so I suppose it protects the underside from wayward rocks and tree stumps. Over time, moisture, dirt and what-have-you gets in between the shell and the tank and the resulting corrosion causes pinholes. If that is the case, short of seperating the tank from the shell, you probably can't fix it from the outside. However, you can get a goop that you pour inside the tank to seal it. The good stuff is a two-step process. The first step cleans the metal, the second step seals it up. You can get this stuff through J.C.Whitney. The only problem is that if you have any rust left, or if the corrosion continues, it will probably leak again. (Mine lasted about a year!) There are also companies that specialize in re-sealing fuel tanks. Try the yellow pages. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 07:16:44 1994 To: LRO-Digest From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Date: 29 Oct 94 4:32:29 EDT Subject: re: save The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Status: RO Different S-word than save! F-word TOO! Sorry folks! I'm pretty sure I've pulled a dumb one and accidentally sent the list back to the list...grrrrrrr...I was real interested in this one and just wanting to change the title but DOOOHHH! Carb advice was very interesting as I am currently running way too rich - I'll be checking my float bowl level and timing tomorrow. Fair amount of folks hang behind me for a while and then change lanes - I seem to be keeping pace with traffic - so I think it is fumes not slowness...I haven't topped up my rear diff in a while so I don't think it is that blowing gear lube - great anti-tailgating method actually. The big problem du jour is zero clutch pressure - we'll see what is up tomorrow - I guess I could just drive only in 2nd gear? (yes fluid level is topped up) - ahhhhhh - I have not had a good long session on my back under the one I love for a long time... Re: the Northern Cal trip - Morgan/Granville, et al - I'm game! - hope the beast is beat into shape by then... John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 11:14:27 1994 From: BwanaE@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 12:11:05 -0400 Sender: BwanaE@aol.com To: bens@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil Cc: lro@team.net Subject: the rockies? Status: RO Ben, I think it's time for you to switch back to caffienated coffee.... unless the Navy has taken a "silly pill" and moved it's China Lake station, I think it's still located east of those pointy things we Californians call the Sierra Nevada Mountains! Sorry couldn't resist. On a different note entirely, my family and I frequently rove in Death Valley, Barstow,Afton Canyon etc. somewhat in your neck of the woods. Our next scheduled outing is April 8-14 (the kid's Easter vacation) when we plan to drive the "Mojave Road" (see the last issue of Aluminum Workhorse for a great article on same by Capt.Camo). You are certainly invited to join us... let me know. Eric Cope 209/ 736-9279 home bwanae@aol.com 64 RHD SWB (beater) 67 LWB, NADA 6 cyl (cherry!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 12:06:17 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:02:56 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com, morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: Hollister Hills & So. Cal. LROs? Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Status: RO > we would like to go out with others that don't mind a few scratches or > breaking out the wench. I *do* hope you mean *winch*! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 12:06:17 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:03:02 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Disco? UK Net Provider? Mohawk? Etc. Status: RO A couple of miscellaneous ramblings.... Got my e-mail package working again (don't pick up the phone while it's updating, Roger) to find over 150 messages (only 3 days!) Anyway, here's some misc. thoughts... Did someone in San Francisco just get a green Disco? One has shown up 2 blocks from my parents' house, and just thought I'd ask. It sure is nice. Those of you in UK, Can you recommend a good (affordable) internet provider? My sister is going over in january for a semester or so, and we'd all like to be able to keep in touch. She's going to be in the Oxfordshire area. Also, If anyone knows of a used Land Rover (pre-67) in good working condition for sale over there (near Oxfordshire), please let me know. She is likely to want a vehicle, and maybe she could bring it home for me when she gets back. And someone reported seeing a tour company (Mohawk something) Land Rover tooling down the highway here in the bay area. Anyone know about this company? That's all for now. Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 12:06:54 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:03:08 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu Subject: Re: Tootsie Toy Land-Rover Poetry Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I have a white 109" I happen to think it's just fine. But my friends and my kin, Just giggle and grin, And claim that it's Scotty's not mine. I have a blue 88" I happen to think that it's great. Now my girlfriend concurs, And claims that it's hers, And says that my brother's too late. My Rovers like Concord the best The City is just too far west Scotty's more fun, That sun of a gun, So that's where they go for a rest. There's quite a wide variety Assembled with staunch propriety Of Rovers so small On a shelf in the hall To show my place and my piety. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 12:07:41 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:04:07 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: To Lead or Unlead Status: RO >Those readers of this list on the far side of the Puddle >might be interested in the latest findings of our ever >inane politicains and their even more incompetent "scientists". >Now,ladies and gentlemen,it may be told.Unleaded petrol is *bad* >for you.Apparently the connection between brain damage and lead >fumes was always tenuous at best.It goes without saying that >the aforementioned politicians and scientists remain *totally* >UNdamaged,since their is no eveidence that they had a brain in >the first place. >This has had the following effect on yours truly.I now dont >give a flying fart about the environment,since I dont beleive >there was anything wrong with it in the first place.I shall >happily motor round this fair land puthering out clouds of >unburnt diesel to my hearts content,rather than spending good >money on having the injectors seen to.The money I save thereby >I shall spend on cigarettes,which I shall continue to smoke, >with great enjoyment,only in increased quantities. [...] Let me say that No matter what we do, the earth will continue to exist long after we're dead and gone. (Unless we blow it up completely, like Minerva.) Scars will heal, plant life will return, etc. As someone said, maybe the only reason we exist is because the earth needed plastic, and couldn't make it itself. Our sh*t is as much a part of nature as a cow's or an owl's. Whatever we (the so-called "civilized" nations) do to "save the earth (which does *not* need saving -- it's quite capable of taking care of itself), is fairly moot because there are a *lot* of countries where simple survival far outweighs any concept of environmentalism. With that out of the way, I am a strong believer in cleaning up the environment -- *my* environment. I don't worry about the earth, I worry about me. I don't want to die of cancer, or overexposure to the sun. I don't like the smell of cigarettes, or of car exhaust, and I like the sky to be blue, not brown. I don't like the smell of the local dump, so I try to send as little garbage to it as possible. I take the bus to work because I don't like sitting in traffic, I don't want to add to the clouds of smog, and I prefer to spend my time reading rather than driving. I use a re-usable mug for my hot cocoa, rather than a throwawy paper cup. Not only does it mean less garbage, it means I don't burn my hand holding the thing. Unfortunately, there is *nowhere* in this country, where you can safely drink directly from a river or stream. There are very few places as beautiful as Yosemite or Banff where you can go without seeing a huge hotel (or 2 or 3 or 12) stuck right in the middle. There are days when it's not safe to go outside and breath. Too bad the same air goes inside buildings, but even if it didn't, who wants to spend their lives indoors all the time? Sure, right in the middle of that big desert might be a great place to build a house, but what about when a million more people join you, and there is no more desert or forest or beach or whatever? What will you say when your kid asks you "why is the sky brown?", not knowing that it was once blue. How about when your kid says "what are stars?" having never seen any, since they've all been drowned out by the lights from the freeways and office towers. What I worry about is not saving the earth, but saving the humans. This human in particular. For the most part, the things we can all do about this are little, easy things that are well worth the results. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 12:07:40 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:04:15 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: maloney@wings.attmail.com, LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Subject: Re: Jon & Di in Pittsburgh Status: RO [misc. royal lust deleted] >More Baloney from Maloney > >maloney@wings.attmail.com Um, I hate to bring this up at a time like this, but we *did* have us a little skirmish about 200 years ago to kick the bloody brits *out*. It's bad enough we drive their cars, listen to their music, and watch their comedy, but now we want their women too??? Come on guys! Besides, I like aussie women better... <8^b --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 12:24:06 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 13:19:53 -0400 (EDT) From: KAHLA GENTRY To: LRO@stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"LRO@stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Subscribe LRO Kahla Gentry "KGENTRY@utkvx.utk.edu" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 14:58:21 1994 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 15:37:55 EDT From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Solex and Rochester Carbs To: land-rover-owner@TEAM.NET Status: RO For anyone who does not know of me, I own a 1960 Series II Short Wheelbase Station Wagon. At some point prior to my acquiring of this vehicle, a PO installed one of those Rochester conversions that Atlantic British used to offer. I like the added performance that this huge carb provides, which I attribute to the way petrol flows out of its jet like water over Niagra Falls. However, I have been told that these carbs can, in time, damage the engine by making it continually run too rich. It creates a lot of horsepower, though the torque is way down as opposed to the standard set-up. I am in the process of restoring this car to as original as possible condition and would like to reinstall the old Solex. (Fortunately, I found it in a box in the back after buying the L-R.) I worry about the lack of parts for these long obsolete carbs and have thought about replacing the Rochester with a later Zenith. This would maintain the originality to a degree, though a good deal of people seem to hate these carbs, too. What about the Webers? Are they reliable? I've heard of MGB's that had them installed and ran horribly afterwards. Any solutions for this predicament would be appreciated. Oh, I heard that the Rochesters can be re-jetted so that the mixture will be correct. Anybody know of that? Thanks in advance. Brian Willoughby bawill01@ukcc.uky.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 29 20:43:23 1994 Date: 29 Oct 94 21:37:00 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: High-wattage reverse lights Status: RO Harry Greenspun writes: > Now that the flaming has subsided regarding us > yuppie-mudfearing-testosterone deficient-greaseless-mechanic hiring > RR/D90/Disco owners, I think it's safe to post a question or two. > I've been tempted to replace the standard reverse lights on my Disco > for higher wattage ones. However, the manual has a generic warning about > replacing any bulb with a brighter one. Has anyone done this? One of the benefits of "progress" and an example of the "new" surpassing the "old" is halogen lighting. I suggest you see if one of the halogen backup light replacements can be used in place of the stock incandescent bulb. I used a pair of these on my previous 4WD for several years without incident even though they were 50w lights. Plastic housings (which don't rust) are unlikely to be affected by the short periods spent in reverse. Afterall, we are "forward thinkers," n'est ce pas? The only drawback to these lights is they seem to be available in limited types so I fear you (and I) may be out of luck (as I would like a set for my personal yuppie conveyance alias Defender 90). But I will give you a lead on a source for these examples of modern (well, sort of modern) technology (the lights that is, as for the Land Rovers I hear that Solihull is developing an electrostatic field which repels dirt and grease, oh boy! Progress!). It is fine establishment which caters to yuppies: Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories 200 South Robertson Blvd. Beverly Hills, CA 90211 <---------- Almost 90210! (310) 657-4800 (800) 421-0911 M-F 9-7, Sat 9-6 Item: 50w halogen backup bulbs, $24.95 pair Treading Daintily... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 05:30:48 1994 From: YvesF@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 06:25:51 -0500 Sender: YvesF@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: LR Hams out there? Status: RO A couple years back I chatted on 20 meters with a chap right near Solihull who had worked for LR, and who had several beasties he worked on and did neat stuff to, at home. Unfortunately I misplaced the QSO information and can't remember the fellow's call. Anybody in the UK who might also be into amateur radio have any clue who this might be, and also is there anyone out there (in UK or elsewhere on this - or other - planets) who combine ham radio and LR stuff? Would love to make a sked if anyone responds. Who knows, perhaps we could have a LR net on 40 or 20 or whatever? My call is W1EOX and can work any mode or freq (legally, preferably). Must be some VK, ZL or G hams in addition to us W's out there with LR's!! I've got a 1963 109 2 door, civilian, with hard and military soft top, a "restoration" (what a fauncy word that is) started about 3 years ago.... it's also a rolling antenna farm and test bed for the low bands and VHF. The main truck receiver is a surplus "Angry 5" which does a bangup job on AM/CW and even SSB. If anyone out there is operating a Range Rover with a brand new TS50 or Yaesu FT900 ensconced deep in the leather upholstery, I suppose they could sign in too..., although we might have to dust and vacuum first... :) 73 and all that rot, Yves PS: Who else out there also uses LR's to lug harpsichords around to gigs? Yves Albert Feder W1EOX AM/FM/TVI/CW/SSB/RTTY/Packet/TCP.IP YvesF@aol.com or Yves1@delphi.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 12:50:02 1994 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 13:13:08 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Bosch Platinums To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO I seem to recall some time back a thread on Splitfire plugs in which was mentioned that Bosch Platinums could cause damage to the LR engine. Is this at all true? I am asking because I need to replace the plugs in my ser IIa and have new Platinums I'd like to use. Thanks!! Rgds, Joseph Broach.......'67 Ser IIa 88 "Sidney" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 13:41:30 1994 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 13:26:45 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rebuild of Dual Master Cylinder To: Gregory Brown Cc: Serge Arfi , Land Rover Messages to Digest In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO You may be right about the fluid being wrong. I put DOT in it when I was rebuilding it and quickly realized what I had done. I had the unit on the bench at the time, so I cleaned up the parts and put it back together. I had a hunch that the rubber seals may have swelled up even in the ten minutes or so it held the wrong fluid. I think the valve is OK but it is very hard to get the return spring to push out the plunger. I suppose one could say I have lots of hydraulic pressure seal there, but I didn't want to mount it and then find out it wouldn't work. The old American Motors unit I have been using really does a reasonable job, but I would like to get back to the Land Rover unit because the power brake vacuum line hits the reservoir lid, and this makes it hard to open and close when I service the unit. If you know the American replacement seal number, that would be a help because Girling wants about $17.00 for the seal which is worth about $1.00. Thanks Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 14:30:59 1994 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:23:51 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Hi all and a bumper Question To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I anyone saw the series on the husband and wife team that flies ultra lights on the "Skeleton Coast" of Africa on The Learning Channel this weekend, you will see that they have a water system installed in their Land Rover. It seems to come out of the panel on the rear right hand side, and in the shot, it seems to be hot water to boot. By the way for those of you who missed this particular series, it showed a nice 109 doing its thing as a support vehicle for the two ultra light aircraft that a husband and wife team of photographers use in Africa. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 15:02:48 1994 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:52:01 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR Hams out there? To: YvesF@aol.com Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410300625465676635@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well I am a ham radio nut. I use an 88 Ser IIA for Red Cross work. I have an air operated 40 foot mast that goes on the vehicle and Hustler antenna system. It carries 2 meter and TS520 HF system. It is set up with jump seats for a radio crew. It has been used with safari top and tent for emergency. Just returned from teaching a course at the Federal college for emergency preparedness in Ontario. I operated in Hurricane Iniki on Hawaii for American Red Cross and last year in Russia and Finland for International Red Cross. Did communications in Hawaii and medical supplies in Russia. Met losts of hams and saw some Land Rovers. I tried to work Dale KC7MM from the net here while in Arnprior but band was bad. He wants to get a group together and talk Land Rovers as well. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 17:33:06 1994 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 17:14:10 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: LRO heater tests To: LRO@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO For those of you who mentioned in the past month that you wondered if your heaters were working, I conducted some tests. On my freshly rebuilt engine with clean water jacket and a flushed heater rad core, I recorded the air temperature at 144 degrees F. after 1/2 hour driving at 50 MPH. The test was made after stopping the vehicle and the thermometer was placed in the air prenum. I used three thermometers and all were within the 144 to 148 degree range. The engine gauge was reading in the normal range, and the engine was at a fast idle. The outside temperature was 34.5 degrees taken with a Radio Shack electric thermometer. My vehicle has a roof liner and stick on noise dampening panels on the inside doors, a rubber 1/2 " dock rubber mat on the back floor and carpet over the seat box and on the front floor. I was able to maintain 74.1 F. in the front of the vehicle at the seat cushion level. I have good door rubber. I hope this is of use to some of you. I hope to try some transmission and transfer case temps and when it finally gets cold, I will let you know what the inside temps get to at around -40 F outside temp. Maybe I don't want to know. I am a psychologist, and I know that self fulfilling prophecy can make me feel cold if I think it is cold :-). Maybe I should use a broken thermometer. :-) Dave VE4PN (Word should be plenum-can't seem to edit this after I type it) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 17:37:45 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:25:43 +1000 From: rwalker@dolphin.fen.qut.edu.au (Rodney Walker) Subject: Series I Restoration To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Cc: RA.Walker@qut.edu.au X-Envelope-To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Length: 1457 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: RO A few weeks back I purchased a running 1955 '86 Series I. Now my intention was to just use the vehicle, but as with most things I do, I find it difficult to resist the urge to pull the thing apart and do it up properly. So, at the present state it is in a few large piles in my garage. My question is, how do I clean off the old green paint from the alloy body, and what do I repaint it with. Does the alloy require a special surface prep.? What type of paint do I use? What is the factory stovaic (???? sp?) enameled paint job ? My rear body has a few extra drill holes in it. Can the alloy body be welded with oxy/mig ? What can I do about the chipped galvanising on my body corners, short of ripping out the rivets and having them re-coated. This should de me for a while. Rod ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rodney A. Walker 44 Ford GPW Space Centre for Satellite Navigation 44 Willys MB Queensland University of Technology 88 Cherokee George St, Brisbane 90 Wrangler 4000, Queensland, Australia 85 CJ7, 85 J10 voice +61-7-8705187 44 GPA, 44 Dodge Truck fax +61-7-8641517 79 Cherokee Cheif 55 Series 1 Land Rover ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 18:14:17 1994 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 17:58:46 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Series I Restoration To: Rodney Walker Cc: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com, RA.Walker@qut.edu.au In-Reply-To: <9410302325.AA20408@dolphin.fen.qut.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have found that paint stripper works well on this paint. You can get the real automotive type or use the Circa 1850 stuff that you can get at the corner store. The nice thing about it is it doesn't need neutralizing after you sue it. Once you have a clean surface, you need to etch the aluminum or the new paint won't stick. On an aluminum canoe I used some Navel Jelly but I hear even vinegar will work if you are going on the cheap. If you can afford the real thing, get the right stuff from an automotive paint store and make sure you tell them it is for aluminum or they will give you prep wash for steel and you will be in trouble. You need a primer for aluminum as well or it won't stick. After that you can use what you want. Some fellows just brush paint their vehicles, but I think if you go to all the trouble of primer and etching etc, you will want to spray it even if only from a spray bomb can. There is little you can do with the galvanized trim. Steel wool it first to see if that cleans it up and if not, well you can always paint it aluminum, not a very nice looking color however, or you can find a contrasting colour and do that to it. In most cases it just adds to the general tough look to let it be, and it doesn't need any further work if you just leave it. You might want to camouflage it. This allows you to use flat paint and it hides all the problems better than a fine finish would. One consulation about Rovers is, all the rivets help break the surfaces up so even a poor paint job doesn't look all that bad. Try a home job on a Jag and see how long you will leave it on. :-) Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 19:33:49 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Ranger Rover brake repair. To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 16:59:11 PST Status: RO Well, the shadetree mechanic does it again.... I got up this morning to a pager going off, and a return call to find out that my fixed EPROM were at the airport. So this being Sunday and a beautiful fall day, I decided to take the R-Rover. So I got in with my coffee, turned the key, started the engine, and then realized that the pump for the brakes was not shutting off. After about 15 minutes of continuous running I realized there was a serious problem. After taking the other low-life truck to the Airport and completing my testing, I decided to fix the Rover. Since the pump was making a weird noise, and the manual stated that this was non-serviceable I decided to start there. After all there are only three Allen screws holding the pump motor to the housing so that looked like a good place to start. So I removed the three screws and proceeded to remove the motor. My thinking was the motor was separate from the pumping mechanism. I was wrong. Out poured pints of brake fluid on the new garage floor. Well since I had gone this far I might as well keep going (I use the same philosophy with mud, and snow). Inside was a round metal object in a bearing race. It seemed to turn, and was loose so I pulled it out. If you have ever taking apart the freewheel of a ten-speed bicycle you will know the feeling of multiple small parts falling every where. It turns out this circular item was actually eucalyptical, and there were about 6 small dowels that ride on the bearing race and pump brake fluid. After locating all the little dowels I reassembled the pump and turned my attention to all the bleeding screws. I have a severe distrust of bleeding screws, one they always break, or strip, and if I can loosen them I rarely get any improvement in braking performance. But since I really hate to pay those Audi/Porches/Range-Rover rates at the dealer-ship I began the bleeding process. The First screw in on the pump housing. this is gravity feed. This I can handle, just keep the reservoir full, and bleed until all those bubbles leave. After bleeding the pump I still had the original problem. So I moved on the next valve. This one is on some nitrogen charged accumulator. After reading the manual I came to realize that this is no more that a bladder holding tank any newer house with a well comes equipped with. I turned on the ignition and loosed the valve. After watching this squirt a couple of more pints on my new floor, I realized that the pump was now shutting off after 3 or four min. After bleeding this multiple time I turned my attention to the next screws. These required help, as someone (my wife) was needed to press the brakes as I loosened the screws. After a number of cycles I did get the pump to operate normally. It now shuts off after 10 second, and does not sound like a screaming kid any more. All that is left now is to talk my wife into cleaning the garage floor....... Russ Burns One of those yuppie RR owners. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 19:28:33 1994 From: mtalbot@interserv.com Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 17:23:22 -0800 To: LRO@team.net Status: RO All, Can anyone in the states suggest a good quality rush paint for painting my SIII frame ?? Rgds Mark From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 20:00:11 1994 Date: 30 Oct 94 20:53:31 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re:Fuel consumption (octanes) Status: RO Dixon Kenner was wondering: > The numbers in the brackets I presume are the octane levels. Is > this the R+M/2 octane level? If so, you have some pretty potent > stuff compared to, this particular part of, Canada. Unleaded The numbers in brackets are indeed octane levels. Now, I'm not very knowledgeable in this whole octane - oil weight - refinery business, I just burn the stuff, and usually the cheapest I can get. All I know is that in Germany the octane level is measured according to a norm abbreviated ROZ, whatever that stands for. But I also gather that in Europe, the petrol in Germany and in Italy is supposed to be the highest quality, probably because of their exotic highly powered sports cars. In Germany it's the turbo-charged Porsches, and in Italy you have the top-model Maseratis and Lamborghinis which will perk if you fill them up with anything else than pure dynamite. Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 19:59:49 1994 Date: 30 Oct 94 20:53:37 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Jon's Steering Relay Status: RO Jon, I've overhauled several steering relays. Whatever you do, be *very* careful whan taking it apart. There's a helluve-strong 4-inch totally compressed spring in there which, if it hits you anywhere when coming loose, will seriously maim you. As for your problem, the most likely causes for a seized relay are broken or cracked up bushes, and/or a fouled relay shaft; the shaft surface should be smooth and highly polished. If it becomes rusty, pitted, or scratched by dirt/sand, it begins eating into the split bushes which are kept pressed aginst the shaft surface by the abovementioned spring with very high pressure. Another - unlikely - cause could be that this beastly spring itself is broken, and the shaft tilts and is seized against the top and bottom washers. If any of this is the case and you do _not_ have the spares to fix it immediately, you can temporarily get it to work smoothly by greasing shaft and bushes thickly prior to reassembly, and then filling the relay with *grease* rather than oil. Again, stay clear of that spring!! Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 20:00:11 1994 Date: 30 Oct 94 20:53:42 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re:High-wattage reverse lights Status: RO Harry Greenspun ponders: > I've been tempted to replace the standard reverse lights on my Disco > for higher wattage ones. However, the manual has a generic warning about > replacing any bulb with a brighter one. Has anyone done this? Not in my wildest dreams. But, I *presume* the manual is primarily worried about the guy _behind_ you who might get blinded and won't even get to see who's backed into him, or might fret and panic, thinking he's seeing the headlights of someone heading towards him on the wrong side of the road. If neither worries you, be my guest... Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 23:40:23 1994 From: YvesF@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 00:37:32 -0500 Sender: YvesF@aol.com To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: LR Hams Out there? Status: RO Hi Dave, thanks for your reply! Yours only one so far... so we have you (Dave VE4PN) Dale KC7MM and myself..... very interesting stuff you've done there! Any thoughts regarding possible skeds/frequencies? 73 Yves (Al) W1EOX "Danged if I unnerstand all I know" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 16:52:05 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: LRO@TEAM.NET Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 08:18:32 GMT-0930 Subject: Water storage Priority: normal Status: RO The bumper bar is definitely NOT the place to put water. I agree with other comments, which is what we do, that is, use 20 litre food grade polyethylene containers with a thread near the base for a tap. In that way, your water will be spread over several containers. Alternately, if you are taking a roof rack, why not get some 90mm PVC storm water pipe, and hang one off each side of your roof rack. You just put a T-piece with a thread at the top for the filler and a tap at one end. Not much chance of stone or tree damage up their. Mind you, it is prudent to take a container in you LR as well, just in case! As a third alternative (and I know someone who has done this to their Discovery), have two boxs' constructed out of colourbond (powder coated) steel, and set them under the LR between the chassis rail and the doors. Gives a lower centre of gravity and the water container is out of harms way. Or install the steel box along the back floor (I've seen that in a RR). Remember though: Baffle the box well to stop the water sloshing about! out of harms way Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 30 17:00:56 1994 From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: LRO@TEAM.NET Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 08:27:14 GMT-0930 Subject: Discovery Reversing Lights Priority: normal Status: RO Too much wattage in the light assembly may damage the silvering in the reflector! Try using an ancilliary light with a very broad pattern. Attach it under the bumper bar, and throw its relay (you were of course intending to give the "new"light its own relay, weren't you?) using the existing power to the standard reversing lights. That is, it would be best not to run the new light straight off the exisiting lights wiring. Give it its own fuse as well, there are plenty of spare slots in the Discovery fuse box, or give an inline fuse, or use the cigarette lighter fuse or something like that. (Or you can always be brave and use the fuse for the fuel pump....just kidding!) Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 03:41:43 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:39:28 --100 From: ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Intro with Anecdote(s) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 616 Status: RO > > I vaguely remember a music video showing a 90" driving around and wading > across a river. Also the camera "accidentally" caught the logo they put > on the side of the grille nowadays. Could this be a Billy Joel video?? No. This could be a Bryan Adams video. The first time I saw it, I thought it was a Land-Rover commercial... The car is supposedly a 100-inch RR/LR hybrid. According to LRO Mr. Adams is an avid LR-fan, and the vehicle you see in the video is his. ---Ketil -------------------------------------------------------- Ketil Kirkerud Lillebil TVNorge A/S 1979 109" Petrol SW. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 07:50:35 1994 Date: 31 Oct 94 08:45:17 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: Heater works great Status: RO Granville: Got the Heater installed in my 88 this weekend. It took a little engineering to get the Ser III pipe to fit the Series IIa (Not sure why there would be a difference, but apparently there is) but it all went in in about an hour. I opted for the old-style tap shut-off valve which was appropriate for the period rather than the adjustable Ser III setup. I also added an 88 degree thermostat and, when the weather gets cold, will add a radiator muff. It's hard to get that vehicle to run hot, what with a double-core radiator, oil cooler and 8 blade "Africa" fan. It rarely comes off choke in the cool weather. So far, in 35-40 degree weather, the little sucker cranks out enough heat to heat my house comfortably! I was sweating after about 10 minutes. Regards, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 08:55:28 1994 Date: 31 Oct 94 09:49:59 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Subject: Tom Coren... coming to the Last Gasp? Status: RO Tom: I saw by your sig that you were in VA. You coming to the Last Gasp Rally in W. Va on the 11-12 November? Is anyone from the list going? Regards, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 08:59:20 1994 Date: 31 Oct 94 09:50:04 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Subject: Front Bumper w. H2O in it Status: RO > Can't say that I ever heard of using the front bumper as a water container > but it sounds like a neet idea - it certainly is "roveresque"! have seen a conversion of a Suburban into a hunting vehicle that used the front bumper as a water carrier. Held 100 gallons or so. My only concern with doing it to a Land Rover is that you would be putting a lot of stress on the front wheel-bearings and make the truck rather nose-heavy. On the other hand...I have seen stranger things done to Land Rovers... Cheers, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 10:15:49 1994 From: whitmerm@netcom.com (Mark Whitmer) Subject: Repairing ser IIA gearbox. To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 08:07:14 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1205 Status: RO Greetings! I have recently acquired a 1968 Land Rover ser. IIA 88" wheelbase. It currently has no top, and the transmission is in a cardboard box. I don't know exactly what parts are there and what are missing, but the guy who gave it to me (can you believe that someone would just GIVE away a land rover?! It was sitting in the middle of a farm field for a few years and he decided it wasn't worth the trouble. Sheesh.. some people!). anyway, he said that he thought the only thing that needed replacement was first and second gear. The engine supposedly runs, but the gas tank was dirty so I haven't tried it yet. It has spent the last year or so coated with WD-40 and stored in a friend's garage. I have gotten the repair manuals for it from Rovers North in Vermont (I can get the address if anyone needs it). Can anyone tell me what I'm up against in trying to repair the transmission. What else should I check to see if it's actually going to be driveable once it has a trans.? How does this particular model perform offroad? Any other "Rover Lore" that I would find interesting? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks. See ya' Mark Whitmer whitmerm@netcom.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 10:24:39 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 11:08:40 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey To: Landy , "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: Re: Tom Coren... coming to the Last Gasp? Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Status: RO Tell us more, tell us more, This is the first I've heard anything about this. >I saw by your sig that you were in VA. You coming to the Last Gasp Rally in W. >Va on the 11-12 November? > >Is anyone from the list going? Waiting to hear Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 10:33:03 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:58:59 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Various Status: RO Now that I am in digest mode, it's a little more difficult to address individual replies...after pondering the issue for a while, the mail reader sez "...OK, which ONE of these twenty five address do you want?...." However, digest does keep the connect charges down. Greg writes about gas tanks...and I have just had that problem myself. Virtually all tanks will rust from the outside in at the support flange where the double skin starts. Bough a NEW tank five years ago, used the JC Whitless liner stuff on the inside, painted the outside with three coats of Rutoleum, then multiple layers of undercoating and the bloody bugger *still* rusted through. Cost me $150 at a tank shop to have it stripped and rewelded. Somewhere I heard a thread about the rust-proclivity of British steel as of late and the expensive warranty fixes for vehicles just a few years old. Unfortunately, the only way to fix a tank properly if it is leaking at the flange is to pull it off. WRT the thread on steering realys...here is a trick when rebuilding or fitting a new shaft (comes from Rich Ziegler formerly of ABP). Drill a small hole down the axis of the shaft, with a connecting cross hole in the middle somewhere. That way, oil injected into the top goes right to the middle reservoir area where its needed and you don't have to wait for it to find its way through the seals/bushings. Seal up the filler hole with a small machine screw. Concerning Bosch Platinum plugs...Charlie Haig at RN says they make Rovers tough to start in winter temperatures and aren't worth the price. Has anyone tried the SplitFires? And finally, Rodney Walker writes with questions about painting aluminium (I've tried to post this directly, but it came back three times....) Aluminium will corrode imperceptably rather rapidly, and it is this hard oxide skin that makes paint adhesion such a bother. Clean it up well and use an acid wash to remove the oxide. DuPont makes a nice, three step system, but it may not be available down under. After cleaning, they reccommend a "conversion coating" (dilute ferrocyanide) before priming. Follow that with a two-part primer, "Variprime" but it must be top-coated within 1-6 hours. Years ago, before the EPA legislated zinc chromate out of existence in the US because it was photochemically reactive and dangerous for the eivironment, it was an excellent primer for aluminium. Read the contents on a bottle of Variprime: "zinc chromate" and we won't even talk about the ferrocyanide. If you do have access to DuPont "DuLux" (alkyd) or "Centari" (acrylic) enamels, we have crossover numbers so you can get original factory color mixes. "Hammerite" by Finnegan's (of Waxoyl fame) is a good coating for galvanizing until you can get it redipped. Welding aluminium can be a trick as well - MIG or TIG is about the only real answer. However, there is a new product out so that it can be brazed with a common propane torch. Marketed under the name "LumiWeld" and perhaps a dozen others, it is an alloy stick that flows at 730 degrees (F). With practice, you can even weld up the paper-thin metal in beer cans...AND the stuff hardens to Rockwell 60+. Amazing. Good luck...and sorry for the use of bandwidth. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 11:11:21 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:04:03 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: Disco skid plates available? Needed? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco skid plates available? Needed? Hello all, I'm considering adding skid plates for my '94 Disco, but have not seen them available. Does anyone know where they may be available? And, what are your opinions on even needing them. It seems that most everything underneath is fairly well protected from potential damage, are skid plates needed? Did the camel trophy vehicles have them? If so, where did they get them from? I'd also like to add a winch, anyone know of a winch mount for the dealer added rino bars? ("Air bag certified") And dual batteries: where has anyone else placed the second battery. It's been suggested to remove the windshield washer reservoir (I'd really rather not) or relocate the power steering tank and coil, and remove the air intake horn from the air cleaner. It looks like I could easily fabricate a bracket to move both PS tank and coil about 8-9 inches (~200 mm) towards the center of the engine bay, but what affect would removing the air intake horn have on the vehicle's computerized air flow system? Please advise me on: 1.) Skid plates. 2.) Winch mount. 3.) Dual battery location. 4.) Air intake horn. Thanks so much for your input!!! P.S. What are your opinions on "nerf" bars? (Round pipe bars underneath the doors.) May protect body sides from damage, but affect brake-over angle. Good? Bad? Dave Brown... Phoenix Arizona (USA) '94 Discovery. #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 11:17:01 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 09:06:04 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: PSJK@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au, LRO@TEAM.NET Subject: Re: Water storage Status: RO There is an expidition equiped 110 2 door living in the Pacific Northwest that has a pair of 20+ gallon stainless water tanks sitting in the space between the front seats and the rear wheels. This is where the inside mounted spare tyres go on 109 pickups. Lots of space there and keeps the center of gravity low. If those of you who have 88s or four door LRs look underneath your body, you may find some wasted space that you can stick a water tank in. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 11:18:01 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:13:09 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: '95 Disco features. Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: '95 Disco features. I've recently spoken to an owner of a '95 Disco, and thought I'd share my findings with you as for the differences between a '94 and '95. o Side impact beams in rear doors added. o More color choices (more blues added) o Dis-arming the alarm activates the interior lights. o Lumbar supports in the front seats. (I REALLY wish I had this!!) o Wheels more silver color than grey. That's all I have found out. Anyone else know anything? Dave Brown, '94 Disco in Phoenix Arizona USA #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 11:31:59 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 09:25:01 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: whitmerm@netcom.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Repairing ser IIA gearbox. Status: RO Mark, The factory manual does a good job of explaining how the transmission goes together. If you don't feel you can do a top job rebuilding it, you can ship it off to Scotty. He is very good at Land Rover transmissions and diffs. and can do a factory quality rebuild for cheaper than you can purchase a rebuilt box form company X (He was certified by Rover for doing warrenty work on IIAs). I couldn't tell where you are by your address. But your transmission could always be shipped. Scotty is in The East SF bay area. His shop number is 510-686-2255. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 11:20:11 1994 From: Brian_Foster_at_ASTISHR@ccmailsmtp.ast.com Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:18:57 PST To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Equipment Suggestions Status: RO Although I am not a total newbie to off-road adventures, I am new to traveling with the RR. I do consider myself fairly lucky to have traveled with knowledgeable people that always had just the trick to get out or away from trouble, but it's time to grow up and fend for myself. So I am looking toward you, oh knowledgeable wizards, to divulge some of the equipment you recommend equiping the RR with. Include, if you can: 1) why you recommend the equipment or what can it be used for, and 2) where it can be obtained if it is not readily available or obvious. I'll also be interested in knowing how/were you store this equipment. Post directly to me (brian.foster@ast.com) and after I've accumulated enough info., I'll post to the list if anyone is interested. Brian From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 12:47:22 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: New Explorers aka 110-o-rama To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:38:35 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 453 Status: RO Last night (Sunday) on channel 9, 9p.m.(PST) the New Explorers show that netters had been raving about was on. Following the adventures of a University of Chicago Palaeontologist from London to Niger in a convoy of about 5-6 110 diesel Land-Rovers; 1 station wagon and the rest standards. Pretty cool show, about 1 hour long and there is desert rovering-a-plenty. I got it on video if anyone missed it. Morgan Hannaford Berkeley, CA '69 88" IIA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 13:38:06 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Part Number for U.S defender hardtop. To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 11:30:49 PST Status: RO > Any one have the Part for the hardtop for the > U.S Defender 90. > It looks like I bought one.. > > Russ > > > --LAA17230.783631655/lint.cisco.com-- > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 13:42:45 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 15:15:26 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Rudeness on the Net To: Spenny@aol.com, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Spenny writes: >> I have been venturing further out into the net, and I have noticed that people can be quite rude to one another, some of the flames I saw in other news groups really took me by surprise with their vehemence and the lack of intelligent thought put into the postings, just knee-jerk name calling. My @aol.com address did not help me make friends, although seeing what scooper did a week or so back, I can understand why. I'll stop wasting bandwidth now. >> I have heard pretty much the same. In fact, I contacted a friend of Granville's who was on the Volvo list to post a list of the spares I've squirreled away now that I'm selling it. She said the admin is pretty testy and when folks post those kinds of messages he gets all bent out of shape to the point of posting "Do not respond to this person..." to the list. She said she would ask him directly. She did and he gave her a rather curt answer. She was very annoyed and apologetic afterwords. Even on the sex.ed (I think) when someone new posts a basic question, they are deluged with flames saying "Don't waste our fu***** time!!!" (I read this in an Internet article in the Sunday Times, honest!). So my point is, that despite the occasional flames (hot air) that goes back and forth, I think we should be pretty thankful that this is such a relatively easygoing down to earth group. And when there are "flames" exchanged, there are usually valid points for both sides. And also thanks to Bill C. and his admin for putting up with us. Sorry for the non-Rover bandwidth Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 15:19:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: High-wattage reverse lights, gear oil From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:57:04 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > ......oh, yeah, I forgot about that......all you RR/D90/Disco owners > have those wimpy reverse lights that illuminate the trees you are about > to back into (or maybe just the mercedes in your driveway)......whilst > we *real (wo)men* have mastered the "drive by feel" approach to backing > up in the bush......and should we get a new dent, well, we just don't > give a...... Well, eight tail light lenses last year in the forest, though six were done in during daylight turning on far to narrow trails. This might not be *that* bad an idea. The caved in right rear bodywork on the 109 is from removing a four foot high, foot & a half wide, and about an inch thick section of bark off of a really big tree in the rain, at 11pm, icy driveway, no light anywhere type of thing (using the wee brake lights for illumination.) Got just *that* much off the drive way and wham... Was kinda surprised at how well the body work held up. I hit it pretty fast. Rgds, Dixon PS, Peekskill was in the paper up here this weekend. Seems the place turning yuppie... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 15:31:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: That popping, semi-backfiring sound From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 11:04:20 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > Not that I'm sure if this is any big deal or not - but when I come off the > gas and I'm going at a good clip there is a lot of what sounds like > backfiring going on at the rear end. Not quite as loud really but a lot of > burbling. Is this normal? It seems that it has been that way for a long > time. Is the carb set up wrong? Get the same thiong on the 109, but then the distributor is in orbit somewhere near Neptune most of the time. It does not do this on Ted Rose's LR. > And one more thing - what is the best way to fix (I'm crossing my fingers > here that this is not true) a leaking gas tank. What's the stuff Russell is always talking about? JD Weld? RGds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 15:30:40 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 15:46:10 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO This weekend, with the help of Dixon, I got the wings and cowling off and undid everything holding the engine in to prepare for pulling it out. Should be fun. -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 15:54:24 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 13:48:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land-Rovers on PBS in Niger Status: RO Last night, on PBS, I saw parts of an episode (?) of a paleontology series (?) called New Explorers. Most of these shows I find rather dry but this one was a bunch of young, hip, enthusiastic types and, best of all, they were all driving Land-Rovers--five or six or more Defender 110s. These Rovers, several of which were a nice, dark green, were well equipped, with brush guards, expedition-type roof racks (naturally). Some had Michelin XS sand tyres, some had a rather square-looking tyre that was unfamiliar to me but didn't look much good for sand. The racks were loaded with all the right goodies, such as sand mats, sand ladders (some really long ones on one rig), and the typical boxes and jerry cans. But the Land-Rovers were not just there, they had a big role, with the young drivers commenting on the challenges of off-roading and how they liked it better when it got difficult. Yes! Too bad I couldn't catch the whole show. Did anyone else? Regards, Granville From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 16:05:39 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 16:57:10 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey To: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: Last Gasp Rally in W.Va. Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Can you give any information on this? Or is it a "by invitation only gig" Like where, when, how much, who's doin it? Anything pertinent would be appreciated. Thanks Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 18:04:08 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:55:21 -0800 To: lro@team.net From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Jon's Steering Relay Status: RO When I did my ser III 88" frame-up, I replaced the steering relay. Mine was shot, so I wanted to send it off to get rebuilt. It was completely melded to the old frame, so I cut that section of the frame out (the luxuries of starting with a new frame... you might not want to try this with a frame you want to keep ;) I then brought te piece of the frame containing the relay to the machine shop and *carefully* milled off the old frame. Well, after freeing the relay, I sent it to RN to get rebuilt. As soon as Charlie started to work on it, the relay housing disintegrated, and the whole thing exploded. No casualties (other than the steering relay) I had to buy a new steering relay (whose oil level I should now check). How often should I have to replenish a new relay's oil (it's been 2 years now). -jory >Jon, > >I've overhauled several steering relays. Whatever you do, be *very* >careful whan taking it apart. There's a helluve-strong 4-inch >totally compressed spring in there which, if it hits you anywhere >when coming loose, will seriously maim you. >As for your problem, the most likely causes for a seized relay are >broken or cracked up bushes, and/or a fouled relay shaft; the shaft >surface should be smooth and highly polished. If it becomes rusty, >pitted, or scratched by dirt/sand, it begins eating into the >split bushes which are kept pressed aginst the shaft surface by the >abovementioned spring with very high pressure. Another - unlikely - >cause could be that this beastly spring itself is broken, and the >shaft tilts and is seized against the top and bottom washers. >If any of this is the case and you do _not_ have the spares to fix >it immediately, you can temporarily get it to work smoothly by >greasing shaft and bushes thickly prior to reassembly, and then >filling the relay with *grease* rather than oil. >Again, stay clear of that spring!! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 19:58:29 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 20:52:37 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Brown To: David John Place Cc: Serge Arfi , Land Rover Messages to Digest Subject: Re: Rebuild of Dual Master Cylinder In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO David, Even those quick ten minutes will trash the rubber seals. Don't take any chances and further contaminate the system. I unfortunitly can not help you with a minerial based seal. We only handle glycol based DOT stuff. ( yes stuff is a technical term....I think?). Well good luck. greg 71 Series IIA 88 ps. You cc. Sergi Arfi is he a rover dude? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 22:51:20 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: big brother alert From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 23:05:31 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT A number of subjects seem to have reached a boiling point at once. If you read the october 94 issue of LRO there was a report about the factory in the UK making moves to limit the sale of anything with the Land Rover logo on it, page 16 to be specific. I have known for a while that things were going to be tightened up but never expected this. What is more disturbing is that things are closer than we may realise. As those aroundme here in the valley know, I have never been one to mince words. I dont know what repercussions this will have for me personally, vis a vis my relationship with the company, we'll just have to see. I understand from a source that Land Rover North America could be connected to reports being made to DOT and US Customs on the ownership and importation of vehciles that do not meet US import requirements / rules. >From what i understand, somebody, and my source suggests that it might in all likelyhood be LRNA, is letting the authorities know when and where these vehciles are showing up, ie from looking through club newsletters etc. This is likely 'cos lots of clubs post in their scribbl;ings to them. A number of peole appaerntly will be given the opportunity to re expeort their " illegal' vehciles, destroy them or have them seized. Along with this goes some moves in the US to stop some companies trading using the Land Rover logos and name. Some of them held the franchises when Leyland pulled out in the seventies , and by the way, have never been told that they are no longer leyland / land rover franchises!! In all honesty I hope that somebody can prove what I have posted as being wrong. But sad to say at the moment i believ my source and would not be surprised to see this go further. if anyone can shed any light on this can they do two things please. 1. e mail me direct. 2. post what you know on the system for the rest of us. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 1 00:38:18 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 22:34:56 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn To: twakeman@apple.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Picking on Land Rovers Status: RO Here's my two cents worth on Land Rover driveability: This summer, my girlfriend and I took a trip from San Francisco north to Canada, East through Canada to Edmonton, then South to Utah, and West towards home. It was basically a big square, though we concentrated our sightseeing on Canada. We had a great time. My Girlfriend can't drive a stick, so after three weeks on the road, I was a little tired of sitting behind the wheel, but that would have been true of any car. Two years ago, we did a similar thing, heading East to Colorado for the National Rally, then south and west through Arizona, New Mexico, and Southern Cal. Had a great time then, too. Three years ago I took the Rover to Southern California for a professional conference. Those sent by their companies stayed in $150/night hotels. The other consultants stayed in the $50/night hotels. I paid $15/night for the spot in the trailer park, and had just as nice a place to stay. In all three trips, we had nothing more than minor problems, that I was able to take care of myself (even though I'm automotively challenged), or were due to activities that I wouldn't do alone (like vapor lock when traveling off-highway.) I was able to maintain 65 - 70 mph on the freeway, except in the very high altitudes, where I did lose some power. (I understand this is because the carburetor is tuned for low altitude.) Gas mileage was about 12mph, carrying a wooden bed and cabinets, stove, chairs, portable toilet, all my girlfriend's clothes, two people, computer, etc. One thing I did do, was swap the lumpy offroad tires for Radial Rovers. Made a *big* difference. The exhaust should be in good shape, too, and make sure that the engine is tuned right. Sure, it's not a Mercedez-Benz, but you can't sleep in a benz, either. I did drive my 88" to work everyday for a while, but the engine needed tuning, and it smoked a lot. I was able to listen to the radio easily, though. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 1 00:37:02 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 22:35:00 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: OFFICIALLY-UNOFFICIAL TRIP Status: RO Count me in! I can also probably talk my brother, roommate, and girlfriend into going. My brother & roommate can bring my 88"; I'll bring the 109". There's probably a lot more folks around who are net-challenged that we could get too. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 1 00:37:28 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 22:35:33 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn To: John_Hong@3mail.3com.com, LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Subject: Re: re: save The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Status: RO John Hong wrote... >Different S-word than save! F-word TOO! Sorry folks! I'm pretty sure >I've pulled a dumb one and accidentally sent the list back to the >list...grrrrrrr...I was real interested in this one and just wanting to > change >the title but DOOOHHH! > >John Actually, it was kinda interesting to see what the digest looks like, so don't feel too bad. I still like the regular version better, but it's nice to *know* that I like individual messages better. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 1 00:37:11 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 22:35:39 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn To: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com, LRO@team.net Subject: Re: Intro with Anecdote(s) Status: RO That's great that you know so much of the history of your vehicle! Welcome to the list! I have to agree that if the man is silly enough to let Christie get away, he's not worthy of a Land Rover. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 1 20:38:04 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:30:02 -0800 To: lro@team.net From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: The Last Ibex?? Status: RO Grnaville, et al: The Ibex sounds like a vehicle design I've been interested in pursuing for some time (roll-cage-like frame, [in my case] snap-in plastic body panels, coil-sprung, etc) There was a prototype out of Detroit (not the big three, but a shop that services them) which had a similar implementation about 7 years ago (I have an article on it) which went nowhere (it was designed by the same guy who conceived of the "africar" which had a lot of plywood components :) I am particularly interested in mating that design with a hybrid electric powerplant (I am presently consulting for an electric-motor controller design/manufacturing company, so this seems more reasonable a plan that it once did). The only other missing piece [in my ideal implementation] would be a turbine for the power generator (apache attack helicopters seem good, but they cost US$100K) So if anyone knows about turbines for this application... A few other possible details of my proposed vehicle: Anti-Lucas Electrical system implemented via 3-wire serial bus (with something like appletalk/I2C modularity) Electric (ideally AC-induction; probably DC brushful) motor @ each wheel (full time 4wd w/ ABS and traction control are thus trivial) (no transmission, no xfer case, no diffs, no axles) LED indicators all-round / replaceable headlamps (all on serial bus) I liked the hummer suspension/drivetrain w/its gearing in the wheel hubs (i like both the gearing and increased clearence) Anyway, I'll stop rambling.... ;-) So, Granville, what other info/pointers do you have on the IBEX (specs, photos, address, phone, etc). [I could send you an SASE ;] -jory PS: Roy et al: My new non-net contact info is: 801 Minnesota Street unit #8 San Francisco, CA 94107 415-550-7715 (work phone) >Hail, fellow Net-Rovers, and greetings! > >I wish to pass along to you, my fellow netters, the warm greetings of John >Foers. Who? John is the founder and president of Foers Engineering, on the >parental side of the pond. And Foers Engineering is (or was...) the maker >of the rare and wonderful Foers Ibex. A what? > >For those who did not already know and whom I have not already bored with my >lust for the Ibex, it is a simpler, more rugged, *no nonsense* kit-built, >Land-Rover-based special, with a full spaceframe with rollcage to replace >the Land-Rover's ladder frame. Available in 90" (actually 92.9", of >course), 100", and 110", in open, pick-up, and full hard-top versions, even >a four-door station wagon version of the 110". The spaceframe is hot-dip >galvanized after construction, then fabricated aluminum body panels are >bolted and/or riveted onto the spaceframe. Easily repaired and pretty much >all body panels can be replicated at any capable sheetmetal shop. > >I had seen scant reference to the Ibex in LRO and, in the July issue (I >think) one for sale (with a photo, under "something different"), but no >articles. So I asked the net for more information. John Brabyn responded. >He happened to have an issue of another mag with an article on the Ibex. He >sent me a copy. I wrote to Foers for more information because, if the >article was to be believed, here was something really awsome and reasonably >priced. > >I specifically asked about using Range Rover components, as I figure that is >the only way I can reasonably manage to do one in the U.S. (to acquire a >wrecked U.S. spec. Range Rover, with good title, and keep it registered as a >Range Rover). Besides, I want the 3.9l EFI V-8, 4-speed auto, and viscous >coupling, along with, hopefully, the ABS, self-leveling, power-steering, and >air-conditioning. Yeah, gnarly, but civilized. Travel in comfort to the >trails, then kick ass. *YES* c|:{o> > >Well, John Foers wrote me back a very nice letter, making clear that he >enjoyed getting my letter. He said he really got a good chuckle over >picturing an international network of Land-Rover experts [his words, more or >less, indicating this list] discussing his "elusive machine." Charming, I >thought. He also informed me that the very last Ibex, as currently >configured, is currently being built. The last one? Am I too late? No. > >He will be switching over to start production of a new creation, basically >the same, starting in January 1995. He said that I was the very first on >the American continent to know about the new one, and you, fellow netters, >are next. He said that, inflationary forces notwithstanding, the prices >should be about the same and that performance will not be compromised. And >that is saying something: He asked if I had ever gotten a stock Defender 90 >cross-axle (I wish!) and then tried to open and close the back door. He >says, with the Ibex, that is no problem. We're talking rigid here! Hear, >hear! > >I *do* plan to have one, in the next couple of years... and, no, I don't >work for Foers, although I'd like to! > >Cheers, Granville From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 1 22:22:25 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 20:15:04 -0800 To: lro@team.net From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: ibex post error Status: RO >I am particularly interested in mating that design with a hybrid electric >powerplant (I am presently consulting for an electric-motor controller >design/manufacturing company, so this seems more reasonable a plan that it >once did). The only other missing piece [in my ideal implementation] would >be a turbine for the power generator (apache attack helicopters seem good, >but they cost US$100K) I meant to say that apache attack helicopter APUs (auxillary power units) would be good. I think the whole helicopter would be a bit of overkill. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 31 11:24:53 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 12:17:27 -0500 Sender: Spenny@aol.com To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: late IIA speedo Status: RO I am looking for a late IIa speedometer, the kind with the 3 indicator lights on the bottom of the dial, it's to go in a 1969 IIa SWB, w/15 in. wheels. I would like to trade an early IIa speedometer, it came out of a 1965 IIa SWB, w/15 in. wheels. I know I can use this speedo in my rover but I would rather keep the Wayback machine as visually correct as possible. e-mail or call FWIW, I have been venturing further out into the net, and I have noticed that people can be quite rude to one another, some of the flames I saw in other news groups really took me by surprise with their vehemence and the lack of intelligent thought put into the postings, just knee-jerk name calling. My @aol.com address did not help me make friends, although seeing what scooper did a week or so back, I can understand why. I'll stop wasting bandwidth now. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next!