From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 1 07:50:17 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Paintjob To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 13:41:42 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Dixon asks: > If you mean Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, that is were you will find > quite a few Land Rover nuts, swamp, beer, and possibly a thoroughly > enjoyable time. When are you planning on coming over? Yup, that's the one. I'll be coming across for the last week in July, roughly, and staying at "the Westin Hotel located in Downtown Ottawa". Have you any off road trips planned for that time? Last time I went to the States I found some enthusiasts to take me around the Mojave Desert. What sort of territory do you have out there? Is this the armour plated "bush" which the new bumper is for? > Cretin. Land Rovers are *not* supposed to be washed....{etc}.. > :-) Philistine. This not any old blue, oh no, this is a three colour machine. Actually my accompilces on off road trips refer to my vehicle as 'Paintjob' and my good self as 'Speedy' ;-). The main body colour is a deep powder blue with light blue and white side/bonnet stripes in exaggerated county style. In fact after I washed it I also put a couple of 'LandRover V8' stickers along the side of the bonnet! _I_ like it. I have Rangey wheels in white running 750 SATs to finish off the package...... The best thing about it tho' is that V8 _burble_ from the 2 inch tail pipe. Turbo, hah, dream on ;-) Cheers, Steve. (Clean SIII V8 AP). From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 1 13:27:15 1993 Return-Path: From: Russell Burns Subject: Range Rover tires (tyres) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 11:15:35 MDT Hello, I have an 91 Range Rover and am contemplating install larger 7.50 tires for Off Road use. Anyone have any idea if these will fit under a Range Rover with out doing extensive sheet metal damage ? Thanks Russ From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 04:11:32 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: CRY for ADVISE To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 16:58:08 CST Hi all I spotted the following in Rec.Auto's. All you mob in Ottawa may want to advise this lady, more acurately. I've included some of the replies as I can sympathize with some of them. Maybe people could give their experiences/solutions to some of the problems raised. Must go as I have too much work to do (not only on the L/R) -- Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) Menzies School of Health Research P.O. Box 41096 Casuarina N.T. 0811 _-*_|\ '82 SIII 109 V8 "omnibus" (wagon) Australia / \ 350,000 Km of abuse and neglect Voice : 61_89_228196 \_.--._/ and It's nearly stuffed Fax : 61_89_275187 v P.S I did wash it once, I think it was 1990 just before my wedding, Damn thing spat a water pump next day. Just wasnt used to the attention :-)* ************************************************************************* From: kholling@emr1.emr.ca (Kathleen Hollington) Subject: Land Rover Message-ID: <1993Jun29.015457.5199@emr1.emr.ca> Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 01:54:57 GMT Lines: 9 I am hooked on the idea of buying a used Land Rover. They seem to me to be the perfect utility vehicle - what to 4-wheel drive vehicles the Triumph is to sport cars. It must be durable since it was designed to operate in difficult and remote situations. Its body is made of aluminum so it doesn't rust in a place like Canada! Can anyone tell me anything about them (handling, reliability, availability of spare parts/mechanics, resale value, etc.)? Thanks very much. You can email responses to kholling@emr1.emr.ca __________________________Reply #1_____________________ Er, we had a '67 109 Land Rover years ago. I learned to drive on it. It is quaint in a veddy proper British sort of way. Like putting a stress concentration in the full-floating axles (all four wheels) so that _WHEN_ (not if) you destroyed the axle rather than destroy a diff (which it does anyway when the chips fall into the diff bath). I suppose it would not have been sporting to beef everything up so that the engine would not tear the driveline apart. Or the all indirect transfer case, so that top speed (high range, 4th gear, at redline engine RPMs) was limited to 57 mph. Or the centerless cam followers that require removal and turning when they (eventually) flat spot cause they sound _exactly_ like an entire engine full of bad rod bearings. Or twelve bolts to hold the banjo on the diff for a 4 inch ring-and-pinion (when 4 bolts would have done). Or having metric, SAE _AND_ Whitworth hardware (all on the same vehicle!?!). Or the aluminium (proper Aussie spelling) bodywork rotting off of the steel chassis due to galvanic electrolysis (even though we lived in the _desert_). Or the four speed square cut gear non-synchromesh `crash' box transmission (though it never did fail on us, other than the gearshift lever falling off, twice). Or the complete lack of anything resembling creature comforts (dash? What's a bloody dash?). Or the very weird handbrake that acted on the drive shaft. English products = quality control. NOT! -- Al Bowers DOD #900 Alfa Ducati Hobie Kottke 'blad Iaido National Aeronautics and Space Administration Dryden Flight Research Facility Lead Aero F-18 HARV Chief Engineer SR-71 work: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov "Take up an attitude with the sun behind you..." -Miyamoto Musashi ___________________________Reply #2_________________________ I own a 1974 Series 3 Landrover which I have recently travelled around Australia in. In my experience Landrovers are noisy, uncomfortable, bone-shaking 4WDs ...... having said that they will always get you where you want to go (exception being Kings Canyon, NT (long story..don't ask)) even though when you get there your body aches, your ears ring and everyone else got there an hour before you (YES they are s..l..o..w). Everything in a Landy is well bolted in (over-designed?) - for example where most 4x4's have about 4-6 bolts holding the radiator in, the Landy has about 16!!! They are fun to work on !!! Believe me!!! The gear box (at least on all models to the early 80's) can only be taken out upwards through the car interior - this, IMHO, is why Landrover fell so much behind Toyota in the big 4WD stakes and have yet to really catch up. My father also owns a Landrover - a 1982 S3 - and the difference (and similarities) are amazing. His vehicle is far quieter and smoother than mine but then this may just be due to mine having been bush-bashed more. Anyway enough of this - IF you decide to go for a Landy here are some hints...... * Get one with a Landrover engine (mine has a Holden 186. The extra revs that the 6 cyl produced beat the hell out of my Landy g/box. Do not believe that altering the box will help - a friend of mine had the same problem with a beefed up g/box! * Unless you are to do a lot of sand-driving stick with the original tyres - they are cheaper to replace and for rock/dirt tracks are much better. I have to add that my fathers truck has had almost NO problems since he bought it and (before we moved to Perth) he used it every weekend for offroading!!! The moral of the story (I guess) is be wary - but a good Landy (or a bad one like mine) will get you ANYWHERE!!! Like the new Landy ads go .... "AN AMAZING DISCOVERY!!! THE NEW LANDROVER WILL GET YOU ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE (picture of one atop a barren treeless hill)" Enough from me - I love Landys and will be sad to see mine go (selling soon as Scott Fisher no doubt knows, G'day Scott - ta for car info!). You can bet as soon as I get the extra money (and convince my wife...SIGH!) I'll be hooning the Tanami track in a 1980's Landy with a 2.3 L 4cyl engine, skinny tyres and all stock gear!! -------------------------------- mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au Life is my Landrover (and my wife, of course) _____________________________Reply # 3_______________________ In a previous article, cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) says: >In article <20q313$e9m@news.ysu.edu> ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes: >> Er, we had a '67 109 Land Rover years ago. I learned to drive on it. >[ tale of woe deleted ] I'm not sure I would characterize it as a tale of woe. It was good vehicle, for what it was. But it was not exceptional as a utility vehicle, and some of the design `features' were a bit bizzare. >I'm sure that Landies have changed a wee bit in the last *twenty six >years*... :-) (I know I have.) Unless you've owned one, you'd not know how _LITTLE_ they have changed since 1960. The current Series 110s are not that far removed from the 109 we had years ago. I am not denigrating Land Rovers, they are a good vehicle. And in many places, due to local governments, they are economically a good deal. But no rose colored glasses, please... -- Al Bowers DOD #900 Alfa Ducati Hobie Kottke 'blad Iaido National Aeronautics and Space Administration Dryden Flight Research Facility Lead Aero F-18 HARV Chief Engineer SR-71 work: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov "Take up an attitude with the sun behind you..." -Miyamoto Musashi From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 04:11:38 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Paintjob From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 21:55:34 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Steve Methley writes: > Have you any off road trips planned for that time? Every weekend a bunch of us go off into some 200 acres of forest, swamp, and stream. There is a trail that we intend to complete, as it has been very unco-operative for the past three weekends. At the rate we are going, we may make it through by the time you arrive. > What sort of territory do you have out there? As above. Lots of water too... :-) > Is this the armour plated "bush" which the new bumper is for? Also for a particular rock face one has to scramble up, though the starting point for the rock face is a "canal" of water some 50 feet long, one to three feet deep (lots of submerged items). Bump starting other Land Rovers is another use when their electrics get a bit wet, or the battery/dynamo starts to fail. > Philistine. This not any old blue, oh no, this is a three colour machine. > Actually my accompilces on off road trips refer to my vehicle as 'Paintjob' a > my good self as 'Speedy' ;-). The main body colour is a deep powder blue wit > light blue and white side/bonnet stripes in exaggerated county style. In fac > after I washed it I also put a couple of 'LandRover V8' stickers along the si > of the bonnet! _I_ like it. I have Rangey wheels in white running 750 SATs > finish off the package...... Mine is three colour too. Dark green, aluminium from where the paint has come off, and mud. Wheels are rust and Rover beige(?) paint. Roof is standard safari colour. *No* racing stripes or other yuppie colour combinations... :-) You should find it interesting to see the collection over here. It will be rather different from your usual fare, as there are few Series III's, but mostly Series II's and a bunch of Series I's. Sales stopped here in '74 I believe. > The best thing about it tho' is that V8 _burble_ from the 2 inch tail pipe. > Turbo, hah, dream on ;-) I prefer the burble of a happy engine with tail pipe submerged in water while surging forward... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS. Still awaiting your weight restrictions... Would a 3.5l, 2.5TDi, or coil spring conversion kit stow away in your overnight bag? Actually, pistons, bearings, etc are probably the range I'm interested in... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 06:07:23 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Range Rover tires (tyres) To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 11:59:04 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Russ asks: > I have an 91 Range Rover and am contemplating install larger > 7.50 tires for Off Road use. Anyone have any idea if these will > fit under a Range Rover with out doing extensive sheet metal > damage ? I know of many people that do this for just the same reason. There seem to be absolutely no clearance problems. Some people run cross-ply mud tyres on Rangeys, but are aware that the speed rating of the tyre is too low for Motorway work and they know the handling will be affected. Which tyres were you thinking about? A popular compromise in the UK are 7.50R16 BFG TracEdge's. Some shops will try to sell you these in 235/85R16 size (rolling radius slightly larger, a couple of inches wider) but you are more likely to foul the body with these and they are a bit wide for the rim. (Which rims do you have?) Hope this is useful, Cheers, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 06:14:12 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Paintjob To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 12:05:22 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Jul 1, 93 9:55 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Hi Dixon, your off-road trips sound like fun. Book me a place in a vehicle for last or penultimate w/e in July! > PS. Still awaiting your weight restrictions... Would a 3.5l, > 2.5TDi, or coil spring conversion kit stow away in your > overnight bag? No problem. Please advise number of each required. -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924 switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 11:16:16 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: safari top query Date: Fri, 02 Jul 93 12:07:19 EDT can anyone enumerate (from real life experience) the benefits of the safari top... i understand that the extra "sun sheet" on top is supposed to keep things cooler, and the extra windows seem kinda nice, but i was wondering if anyone had ever perceived a real bonus to these puppies... -jory ps: the company that does coil sprung conversions only offers disc brake hardware in conjunction with their conversion... as i understand it... pps:does anyone have any secrets for squeaky brakes... mine always seem real loud no matter their state or what i do... From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 11:30:03 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: safari top query To: jory@athena.mit.edu Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 17:23:53 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9307021607.AA00628@bolognese>; from "jory@Athena.MIT.EDU" at Jul 02, 93 12:07 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Jory asks: > ps: the company that does coil sprung conversions only offers > disc brake hardware in conjunction with their conversion... > as i understand it... This will change in a couple of months. They are to send me details on their kit under development for fitting RR discs to SIII axles. > pps:does anyone have any secrets for squeaky brakes... mine > always seem real loud no matter their state or what i do... Copperslip or equivalent on backplate/pivot points? Cheers, Steve. PS I've never had any hardtop, but I know my softtop keeps me dry when friends with hardtops have leaks around the rims etc. Never tried snow tho! From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 2 13:24:09 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 14:17:55 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: safari top query >can anyone enumerate (from real life experience) the benefits >of the safari top... i understand that the extra "sun sheet" >on top is supposed to keep things cooler, and the extra >windows seem kinda nice, but i was wondering if anyone had >ever perceived a real bonus to these puppies... Having never driven a Land Rover without the safari top for any great distance, it's hard to compare, but, I feel that the top does indeed keep things cooler inside in hot weather. Not only is there the air space which keeps the sun from directly heating the 'ceiling,' but there is an air flow between the panels when you're moving. There are also 4 forward facing vents which pop up between the panels to direct the breeze (and bugs) down into the vehicle. That air movement is a boon in my 107 station wagon, which has solid panel windows in the back-end. Of course, there are only two very accessible nuts that hold the top half of the rear door in place. In 1972, when I returned to the U.S. through the Brownsville, Texas customs station at midnight from a 2 1/2 month journey through Mexico and some of Central America, the safari top generated a great deal of interest among the inspectors. They must have spent 15 minutes peering between the panels from every conceivable angle with high powered flashlights. Another advantage to the safari top is the handiness of the posts that hold up the top panel for lashing things to the roof. I can't wait until I can get it back together and on the road. ---------- By the way, did anyone on the list make it to the Maine Coast Land Rover event last weekend? Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu Information Resources Cornell University Phone: (607) 255-1477 Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 14853-2601 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 4 00:17:53 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: swamp & trail that Dixon has problems with... From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:22:19 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada hey Dixon SAT 3july i made it through the trail in my 88 sans winch. Read it and weep. -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 4 00:32:41 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: crack tests. From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:07:24 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada sorry Chris but twenty bucks doesn't even get you in the door here with labour rates nearing $50.00 an hour. -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 4 00:44:45 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: squeaky brakes... From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:32:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada in my experience with squeaky brakes it is usually the shoe material try genuine shoes or good quality aftermarket.if in fact your shoes were out of alignment and rubbing on the drum or backplate the braking ability would be somewhat diminished which you may have noticed .generally my make a honing sound and do not work at all after wading for some miles.a tad awkward. -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 4 00:44:46 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: The days events... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 23:31:12 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Well, Steve, the trail has been conquered by a 1961 swb pick-up, a 1962 swb, a 1973 swb, and my 109. Much mud flew as we forged ahead through muck and mire. Progress was periodically curtailled by George's 62, which exhibited all the symptoms of a beast solely in need of some tender loving care. He managed to bury the thing in every mud hole that we came across. This unfortunate series of events was the *only* thing that kept me from doing the trail without ever once getting stuck. You might hear some crowing from Ted Rose, who managed the trail without getting stuck, but this was solely the result of George and myself forging a trail upon which he trod. You shall enjoy this trail, as at the end there is a water "splash" which results in a lovely bow wave that will break across your windscreen when you first dive into the pond. The unfortunate part of this water splash is that it cleans off some of the nice black mud that has accumulated over the day. As one does not want to risk embarrasement, we shall have to go back and do the trail again to get a protective layer over our paint. We wouldn`t want to look like yuppies eh? :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 4 12:25:41 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: address change Date: Sun, 04 Jul 93 13:16:54 EDT i wonder if the list administrator type person could change my address from jory@athena.mit.edu (or jory@mit.edu) to jory@moray.mit.edu. sorry for the wasted bandwodth... -jory From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 4 13:49:07 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: aftermath of saturdays events... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 13:34:00 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada An inspection of the 109 in the aftermath of our efforts to ram our way down the trail has turned up some items on the Rover that will now need addressing. It seems that the frame was not as strong as we had been lead to believe. The outrigger holding the front spring shackle for the left rear spring has collapsed upwards, revealing a bit of rot and a slightly noisier ride as it bounces around. Welding time later this week, I guess... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 6 12:01:53 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 12:54:48 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: electrical and transmission questions I was out working on the LR again this weekend undoing some of the POs work: getting the floor plates up and the silicone caulking off and some minor electrical work. First question came up while getting the floor plates up. I wanted to get these off to give the transmission an inspection. My transmission, however, seems to be of a slightly different configuration than that in the Haynes. Instead of the top-mounted filler plug and dip stick, mine has a side-filling plug and a kind of breather cap on top. And the bolt on top that holds some kind of detent ball is, I swear, a *gasp* metric bolt (15mm). That plus the more modern side-fill plug suggests that this might be a more recent version of the transmission. Correct? The PO has some problems with a burned-out wiper switch (single-motor, two-blade config of a IIa) so he wired in a simple SPST toggle to have something working. I replaced the washer switch but then had the task of undoing the rewiring. A wiring harness that comes from the switch and goes over to the motor has a 5-pin socket (green, red/lt. green, blue/lt. green, brown/lt. green, black wires) that looks a lot like a SIII configuration (it also has a washer switch & pump). But the motor has only three lugs arranged in a line and one of those is ground. Looks from the electrical diagrams that it might be a SII motor. So, what the hell gives? Does anyone know what I have on my hands? In the interim, I've wired one of the lugs to the new switch so that I could dump the Radio Shack toggle and restore the hazard switch and indicator (another SIII touch?) to their original, if currently disfunctional, positions but I would like to get this straightened out. Monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 6 16:01:54 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:54:44 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: electrical and transmission questions Monty, Your transmission description seems like a late IIa to me. Are you sure that bolt is not a Whitworth, 'cause that's what the whole transmission/transfer case is held together with? Tip for putting the floor boards back; I use one 1.25" wide X 1/8" thick, closed cell foam tape instead of the dum-dum (putty) that the factory uses. This is available at hardware and auto-parts stores as "Camper Tape" as it is sold to put along the edge of pick-up beds to seal and cushion the gap between the truck sides and a camper. Just clean off all the old stuff from both the floor boards and the chassis. Put a strip all around each piece where it lays down onto the chassis. If you trim the corner cuts carefully so that there are no gaps you will get a good water tight seal, but you will be able to remove and replace the boards several times without having to redo. Punch the holes for the screws with a 1/4" dia. arch punch, or paper punch. Rgds, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 6 09:57:57 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: electrical and transmission questions > First question came up while getting the floor plates up. I wanted to > get these off to give the transmission an inspection. My transmission, > however, seems to be of a slightly different configuration than that > in the Haynes. Instead of the top-mounted filler plug and dip stick, > mine has a side-filling plug and a kind of breather cap on top. And > the bolt on top that holds some kind of detent ball is, I swear, a > *gasp* metric bolt (15mm). That plus the more modern side-fill plug > suggests that this might be a more recent version of the transmission. > Correct? disfunctional, positions but I would like to get this straightened out. > > Monty > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 6 17:19:14 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: misc Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 18:11:25 EDT monty: for putting the floor boards back down, you can get 3/4" wide 1/4" thich adhesive backed closed cell foam (the same stuff they now use to assemble defenders i am todl) at green rubber for $25 a roll... it's great stuff (greene rubber is on second street in cambridge)...i used it during my rebuild in any number of places... here's a nice tidbit about rovers north: the last time i went to rovers north (engine job from hell due to nasty dap parts), i threw a rubber boot on the front drive shaft... after installation, charlie of rn tightened the retaining collar way on (he said it was loose)... on the drive home, the rover exhibited an increasing vibration which i eventually alleviated by disengaging the front hubs... after driving like this for a few months, i finally removed the front drive shaft and found that the retaining collar was dished outward... i feared that there was something wrong with the driveshaft and that it would need balancing, replacement or something... after calling a driveshaft place in town ($50 minimum) i called charlie at rn to ask his opinion, and he though that it was simply too tight, and it was dished from being drawn back with the rear- ward bit of the draveshaft... he then said he'd send a new retainer to me... (i didn't even ask)... about handbrakes: my handbrak has been frozen for several months... this weekend i finally ripped the linkage apart and the part that rotates on the frame was pretty seized... no someone suggested adding a grease fitting to this bit, and i was trying to figure out how the bushing would have to be modified (lathework?) so that a greasefitting would distribute the grease and be of any use... any thoughts? on coils suspensions and reowkred gearboxes: does anyone have a source of literature or reprints of reviews from european auto magazines of any of these "accessories."... not to mention price lists , etc... later, -jory From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 8 10:34:17 1993 Return-Path: From: Lizard Subject: How to post To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 190 Hi, I guess I do need to ask. How does one post to the group at large? Do I respond to any post, or do I need to make an alias? -Merrick (future Rover owner--envious of my partner :) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 8 13:59:29 1993 Return-Path: <@uga.cc.uga.edu:PC7170@UTKVM1.BITNET> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 14:46:33 LCL From: Joseph Broach To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com subscribe From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 8 14:37:50 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 15:30:01 -0400 From: William Caloccia ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Return-Path: Received: from transfer.stratus.com by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (4.1/3.10-jjm) id AA01473; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:12:31 EDT Received: from v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil by transfer.stratus.com (4.1/3.14-jjm) id AA13372; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:10:03 EDT Message-Id: <9307081910.AA13372@transfer.stratus.com> Date: 8 Jul 93 15:06:00 EST From: "MAUREEN DAY" Subject: Hello To: "land-rover-owner-request" I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonderingif anyone there knows anything about bringing one vehicle over from England to the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo. ------- End of Forwarded Message From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 8 22:02:52 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: SIII combo switches, a quick fix To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 12:13:20 CST Hi gang, Sorry if this is old news but I thought i'd post it in case someone finds it usefull. As any one with a SIII, moke or other lucas equiped pommie car will know, eventually the combination Indicator(trafficator),horn, and high/low beam switch will give trouble. The most common (apart from the cracks) is that either the high or low beam fails to work. The first time this happens you can bend the contacts and it will last for a few more months but the second time bending the contacts will only last for a few weeks. At this point you may assume that you are up for a new switch assembly , as I did. When I found that the switch was going to cost me $129 Aus (about 40% of a weeks wages) I figured that there had to be a cheaper way. There is. Go to your local electronics shop, buy 2 "scotch-locks" (wire joiners/splicers) a "piggy-back" spade connector, a small eye ring terminal (or scotch-lock) a roll of wire and most importantly a 12v "normally closed" relay or a 12v "change over"relay. ( SPDT ? , one in which the relay switches current from one contact to the other when engaged) Any-way. Piggy-back a power-supply from the dash switch terminal which feeds power to the combi switch (usually the bottom RHS) to the relay contact engaged when the relay is *not* activated. From the centre relay terminal run a wire to the low beam wire coming from the combi switch, I just spliced this in rather than cutting and shutting the wire (not that I'm Lazy :-), this will probable be a blue wire with a red stripe. On the solenoid (activating side) of the relay take one wire to earth, I found the earth points on the speedo mounts to be convenient. run the other wire to any High-beam supply. ( I used the High beam indicator light) Bingo. When you switch the lights on the low beam gets power all the time, until you switch to high beam when the relay activates and breaks the circuit to low beam. Whats more it gets rid of that horrible blackness which occurs when you change from high to low and vice-versa. Total cost $9.35 Aus Total time to fit: about 15-20 min depending on how neat you want it to be. -- Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) Darwin _-*_|\ Australia / \ \_.--._/ v From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 9 08:45:45 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 22:58:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > From: "MAUREEN DAY" > > I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonder > the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo. I do not know about US law, but you can bring as many vehicles as you want from the UK to Canada, so long as they meet the DOT specifications for the model year. Pay the GST and what ever taxes, and you are home free, more or less... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 9 10:08:58 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:00:15 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" >> From: "MAUREEN DAY" >> >> I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonder >> the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo. > > I do not know about US law, but you can bring as many vehicles as > you want from the UK to Canada, so long as they meet the DOT > specifications for the model year. Pay the GST and what ever > taxes, and you are home free, more or less... In the US, it's become very difficult to do this since 1986 or so. The law now requires that any car imported be tested for emissions and safety under the guidelines in effect when the vehicle was built. So, that typically means crash testing four vehicles, EPA and DOT inspections etc. I believe there is still an exemption in place for military personnel serving overseas so that's generally your only hope. Relevant phone numbers of our oppressors are: US Customs, Mr. Joseph Kane, 617.565.6117 US DoT, Mr. Dick Merritt, 202.366.5313 US EPA, 202.260.2504 Yes, I did the research on this sometime ago. The easiest way of importing someting interesting is to get and Army or AF type to bring one in. After that, there are a number of importers who do the DOT and EPA mods, have bonded storage, etc. Monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 9 11:13:37 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 12:04:29 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: electrical and transmission questions [Tried to send this to Mike R. but his mailer quits too easily...] >I agree with Bill,sounds exactly like my '70 11A.The S111 wiper was, >I think,self parking,but the 11A isnt(well,mine isnt anyway,and I've >no reason to think it isnt original).I've got wiper and washer operating >off one switch.If yours has been upgraded from two motors to one,there >will,or should,be the original mounting holes for the two motors at the >base of the windscreen.Are your headlamps in the wings,or in the radiator >panel?Although not a reliable indication,if they are in the wings the >thing is almost certainly a late-ish 11A.If not,well,it still *could* be, >but not as certainly.But it has my vote. Ooops, I think I missed Bill's message. Mine is a late IIA ('69) and the wiper motor isn't self-parking. I didn't notice mounting holes for motors below the wipers but I didn't really look while I was playing with the wiring. The mounting plate for the motor was secured only at one spot on the dash so perhaps it is a field upgrade. So, do you know what the three terminals on the motor are for? I have ground and one of the other terminals connected in a working fashion. Should I just connect the other to + to get a different speed? Another thing odd on my LR: Between the steering and the 'glove compartment' I have three instrument panels: Main one with speedo and gauges, middle with ignition switch and non-functioning hazard light, and a left one with oil pressure and what I think is a hand throttle (never tried it). Is this normal in a late IIa? It's certainly at odds with the Haynes manual. tnx Monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 9 11:53:00 1993 Return-Path: <@uga.cc.uga.edu:PC7170@UTKVM1.BITNET> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 93 12:39:12 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Seeking General Info on LR's To: Land Rover Owners I need information on older land rovers. I am interested in the 109's from '60's to '70's. Any information you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!! -Joseph Broach From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 9 12:59:15 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:49:33 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Subject: Re: import info request Maureen, I have a friend who, just this week is taking delivery of a LR 110' that was a scout vehicle for the Camel Trophy held in Russia. The truck is a diesel, so that makes it eaiser to get in. He told me that it had to go through a federal inspection station, of which there are few. His is in LA and he lives in the SF bay area. He expects all that will have to be done is change the head lights. I'm sure he would be more than willing to share he first hand knowldge with you. And he is the Secretary of the Land Rover Owners Assoc. NA so you can join right up. Contact; Domingo (Dom) Dias 1240 Kelly Ave. San Leandro, Ca. 94577 510 569-8879 Regards, Bill G. spelling errors included for your amusment > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 8 12:33:46 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" > Content-Length: 833 > X-Lines: 21 > > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Return-Path: DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil > Return-Path: > Received: from transfer.stratus.com by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (4.1/3.10-jjm) > id AA01473; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:12:31 EDT > Received: from v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil by transfer.stratus.com (4.1/3.14-jjm) > id AA13372; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:10:03 EDT > Message-Id: <9307081910.AA13372@transfer.stratus.com> > Date: 8 Jul 93 15:06:00 EST > From: "MAUREEN DAY" > Subject: Hello > To: "land-rover-owner-request" > > I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonderingif anyone there knows anything about bringing one vehicle over from England to > the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo. > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 9 13:13:05 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:10:19 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: 6 cylinder Power Plant Sub-titled: OOPS, Margolis eats crow. When I said last week >I wasn't aware of a 2.6 6 cyl. engine, but have seen a 3 liter 6 in 109" >wagons, it was a bad assumption on my part that, because the 6 cylinder engine was essentially the same casting as my 2 liter 4 cylinder, the 6 cylinder displaced 3 liters. The response about having never seen a 3 liter engine in a Land Rover prompted me to rummage through assorted old Rover and Land Rover literature stashed in my barn, and indeed the displacement of the 6 cylinder engine was 2.6 liters (2626 cc. to be exact). The bore of 3.063 in. is identical to the bore of the 2 liter (1997 cc according to my owner' manual). The difference is that the 2 liter engine has a 4.134 in. stroke, while the 2.6 has a 3.625 in. stroke. The horsepower difference between the two engines is 52 B.H.P at 4,000 RPM vs. 123 B.H.P. at 5,000 RPM. But I am still reasonably certain that they both use the same AC Delco FF-24 oil filter element. Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu Information Resources Cornell University Phone: (607) 255-1477 Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 14853-2601 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 10 13:08:25 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:43:05 -1812 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:43:05 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: 1967 IIa 109 4sale For anybody interested there is a safari wagon (67 109 IIa) for sale in the Austin area. It has the straight six. The owner is motivated. New gearbox and transfer case. He want $5500, but would easily take $5k. I'm not sure it is really worth that - but . . . . Let me know if you want more info - Greg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 10 13:50:24 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Seeking General Info on LR's From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 11:04:53 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Joseph Broach writes: > I need information on older land rovers. I am interested in > the 109's from '60's to '70's. Any information you could provide > me with would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!! There is a lot of general information available. One source is /pub/sol/landrover.ascii which can be ftp'd from hoosier.cs.utah.edu. What exactly do you want to know? The 109's in question above would be Series II through Series III vehicles that came in several different forms. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 11 00:10:09 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Possible FAQ From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 23:35:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada While hiding in my basement this evening from the oppressive mid eighty temperatures I started to play with developing a LRO FAQ based on TerriAnn's landrover.ascii file. Basically to this point I have just expanded sections, adding detail here and there, specifications and capacities et cetera. What items would anyone like to see in this effort? Combine some of the sections from the Parts Suppliers list (clubs, publications etc) into the text file? Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 11 00:18:09 1993 Return-Path: <@uga.cc.uga.edu:PC7170@UTKVM1.BITNET> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 00:45:26 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Where to find used LR's To: Land Rover Owners I have gotten a lot of valuable information on Land Rovers from this net. Thanks to all who are responding!! The next logical step for me would be to look at/drive an older Land Rover. However I am having trouble finding one in my area. There are a few LR dealerships within a couple of hours drive from here (here being Knoxville,TN). Do dealerships of new Land Rovers get older one's as well? Would I have better luck looking at classifieds in Charlotte,Atlanta papers? Any advice would prove most helpful in my search! Thanks. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 11 10:03:52 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Where to find used LR's From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 10:09:51 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Joseph Broach writes: > I have gotten a lot of valuable information on Land Rovers from > this net. Thanks to all who are responding!! The next logical step for > me would be to look at/drive an older Land Rover. However I am having > trouble finding one in my area. There are a few LR dealerships within > a couple of hours drive from here (here being Knoxville,TN). Do dealerships > of new Land Rovers get older one's as well? Would I have better luck > looking at classifieds in Charlotte,Atlanta papers? Any advice would > prove most helpful in my search! Thanks. You will find that Land Rovers are concentrated in the American northeast and northwest areas of your country. A similar distribution happens in Canada with few Land Rovers being found on the Prairies, the majority in the east and western parts of the country. Frankly, I think that your chances of finding a Land Rover in your general geographic area are slim, though not at all impossible. I would suggest that you be prepared to look farther afield. How farther you are willing to go only depends on how long you wish to wait to discover one. Land Rovers can be had on very short notice, as I regularly see a number for sale in the Atlantic-British newsletter, as well as the Rover's North newsletter. The other consideration for going afield for one is price. If you are located in an area where there are few, if any Land Rovers, you will find that condition may be sub-standard, and the price excessive. As for the dealerships, my understanding is that they have no interest in dealing with older Land Rovers. LRNA, when asked about the older vehicles refer people to local or regional clubs for the purchase and sale of their pets. One LRNA chap in Toronto didn't have a clue to the differences between Land Rovers built from 1947 to the late 1980's. He figured that they were all the sme. Best of luck... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 12 11:00:40 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 08:47:30 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: electrical and transmission questions Monty, people paly with instrument pannels all the time. The later IIA, have toggle switches while the older ones have push-pull switches. The older ones did not have hazard lights. Post 67 (?) LRs were imported into the US with the black Delux seat covers. Earlier ones were gray. Pre-'66(?) LRs had steering wheels with metal spokes. Later ones had plastic spokes on the wheel. These are not interchangable. The single wiper motor came in 1967. Head lamps were moved to the wings for 1968. The Solex was used through 1967. The Zenith carb was fitted, 1968 & later. Missed the first part of the conversation, but hope this helps. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 13 09:25:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 18:46:06 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Engine transplant? Hey gang, Here is a question that I was going to get around to posing sometime, but the matter has suddenly become urgent. You may or may not remember that I have a Series I 107 station wagon present in kit form with a freshly reconstructed frame. The series I is (under)powered by a 2-liter petrol engine, which in my case, has been sitting on the ground for about 3 years, and hasn't been started in about 7 or 8 years, but had been turned over occasionally by hand or towing in gear every once in a while. While I still don't have the cash to spare to complete the reconstruction right now, here's my situation, my question, and the reason for the urgency. My daily driver has been a 1981 Peugeot with a 1984 Peugeot 2 1/4 liter turbo diesel engine. (I'm not sure which is more perverse, English vehicles - I used to own a 1966 Rover 2000 TC - or French vehicles, so I like to have at least one of each at all times.) Well, this past Wednesday morning, on my way into work, there was repaving going on on the 2 lane highway I take to Ithaca. During rush hour, the contractors were paving one side and flagging traffic through one direction at a time. The repaving was being done in the city of Ithaca where the highway is 30 miles per hour. The traffic backed up and came to a stop about a mile and a half above the project where the speed limit is 55 miles per hour. Well, I stopped because a couple of hundred cars in front of me stopped, but a State Police Detective (!) in an unmarked police car behind me didn't stop. At least not before he made my poor old car about a foot and a half shorter. It crumpled up like it was designed to, absorbing most of the energy of the crash, but I am sure the insurance companies are going to total it. So, (I hope you're still there) my question: Has anyone ever heard of doing a transplant of this sort: a Peugeot turbo diesel into a Land Rover. What sort of measurements would I need to make? Would I also need to transplant the radiator? Someone I mentioned this to (before the urgency) thought the transmission might need to be transplanted as well. Am I crazy? Wishing I had been in a Land Rover while I was rear-ended, rather than a Peugeot sedan. Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu Information Resources Cornell University Phone: (607) 255-1477 Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 14853-2601 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 13 13:43:31 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:36:56 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, sim1@cornell.edu Subject: Re: Engine transplant? >Am I crazy? You're nuts. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 14 03:39:48 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Engine transplant? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:22:15 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) writes: > Am I crazy? Two things... Congradulations on getting rear ended by an undercover cop... :-) As for shoving a Peugot engine into your Land Rover, don't waste your time. The engines suck big time... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 14 03:57:41 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: To Dixon regarding Land Rover stuff... From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:29:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada with rgds to your prior mess regarding LRs.you may have blundered down the trail in front of me but you most certainly did not forge a trail for others but merely made it more of a challenge for the remaining vehicles following. -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 16 11:52:03 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Current FAQ status... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 21:58:39 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Below is the current table of contents of the FAQ that I am putting together. Thus far is stands a little over 800 lines, but will grow a bit more when I put some of the details that have been requested by a few people. As it stands, I have taken TerriAnn's effort and added in great chunks without much thought to a particular structured order (I have never seen a vehicle FAQ to base this on), so comments would be appreciated. I notice on the British-cars mailing-list that a Jaguar book list has been produced listing some 80+ books available on that marque. Though I doubt that a list of Land Rover books would be as extensive, if anyone has titles (title, author, publisher, ISBN# and comments) of books that they find useful, send them on over. Any other information that you might have kicking about would also be appreciated. When I have it in a semi-final state, I'll post it for comment and any additions before I upload it onto hoosier.cs.utah.edu. Rgds, Dixon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contents: 1. What is a Land Rover 2. What Land Rovers were imported to North America - Series I - Series II & IIA - Series III 3. Engines (Comments and specs) - Petrol (4 cylinder) - Diesel - Petrol (6 cylinder) 4. Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover - Checking under the Land Rover - Starting the engine - Test driving - Land Rover extras - Value 5. Specifications - General (height, weights, dimensions etc. for 88 & 109) - Capacities (fluids) 6. Parts Distributors - USA & Canada - Great Britain 7. Magazines & publications 8. Clubs ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 16 12:08:26 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: To Dixon regarding Land Rover stuff... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 22:08:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) writes: > with rgds to your prior mess regarding LRs.you may have blundered down > the trail in front of me but you most certainly did not forge a trail for > others but merely made it more of a challenge for the remaining vehicles > following. With all due respect I got stuck three times. The first was when I waded into the mire at the base of the beaver dam to boost George after his 88 died for the nth time. With the frame in nice thick sticky mud, I couldn't get a run at the rise overwhich you passed at great speed. The second time was when you directed me around Geouge in the pond and promptly placed me on some sunken fallen trees. I was not stuck, and could have extracted myself, but for your efforts to surge me forward into a greater doom. If you remember, I has water up to my shins as I winched myself out of your mess. The third time was a repeat of the first in the last swamp when I had to get George out yet again. You seem to forget that at the second water hole (~100' long) I filled in many of the deeper ruts with rock that would have other wise put your right front wing completely under water. Next time, I'll dig them deeper and see how well you do... :-) We shall see how well you do on the 31st at the OVLR meet... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 16 22:21:23 1993 Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Safari? From: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 18:44:39 MDT Organization: The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 A quick question. When folks refer to a 109" Safari model, I've always assumed that this was just a normal 109" with a Safari roof. But something I read recently lead to me to believe that the Safari model had other "options." Is this true? --- grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 17 16:13:05 1993 Return-Path: To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@celia.caltech.edu (RANDY ROSE (818)395-3840) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: New Member Date: 17 Jul 1993 14:04 PDT Organization: California Institute of Technology News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 At my request, our site has subscribed to this list for a week now, and no postings yet! (We can't have personal subscriptions to mailing lists, so the this list is set up for campus wide distribution. As there are three Land-Rover owners on the CALTECH campus, this works out better.) So, first this is a test to see if this message posts, and secondly, this is to say hello and offer an introduction. I've got a 1957 series I station wagon, which I have owned for about 6 years but has been running only in the last 2. It came to me as a project, having no engine or transmission. I was able to locate the original drive train, but when found, had been in the rain for some time and was worthless. What I did have on hand was a '58 sII engine, and "C" suffix gearbox, so in it went. I've tried to keep the truck as much original and "Rover" as possible. The engine and gearbox went in without any modification to the truck (although the "C" gearbox did need modification to the clutch housing and throw-out mechanism to accomodate the Series I set-up). The original radiator has been kept. I've spent a lot of time finding and using the original switches, guages, and hardware to keep the truck as consistent as practical to original or "stock". The thing isn't pretty--I haven't painted it, and it's kind of ugly anyway--but the drivetrain has been gone through and mechanically it is fit. The engine has 15,000 on the rebuild, which I managed myself, and I'm happy with the whole thing so far. It gets almost daily use. Pasadena is about 20 minutes from down town Los Angeles, and this area of California has a lot to offer within a few hours of travel: some fairly empty deserts, and mountain terrain. Hope to write to some of you later. Regards, Randy Rose California Institute of Technology 332-92 Pasadena, CA 91125 (818)395-3840 rsrose@iago.caltech.edu From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 18 22:01:03 1993 Return-Path: To: LRO@transfer.stratus.com Cc: Rally@transfer.stratus.com Cc: caloccia@transfer.stratus.com Subject: No List Admin activity until August Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 22:53:42 -0400 From: William Caloccia Hey folks, I'm gone (mostly) until the beginning of August, so ADDs, DROPs, etc. won't be done until I get back to Wormtown*. As I type this, I am in Tokyo, after work I'm going to try and find the nearest Honda dealer with a Discovery-Tdi. I still haven't figured out where the F-1 track is, but then I've only been here a couple hours. 'til later, Bill * worm as in Worm gears, not earth worm. --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 18 22:58:19 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Safari? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:04:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) writes: > A quick question. When folks refer to a 109" Safari model, I've always > assumed that this was just a normal 109" with a Safari roof. But > something I read recently lead to me to believe that the Safari model > had other "options." Is this true? What source are you using? This designation must be pertaining to a particular year, as a quick look through my material does not show a seperate "Safari" model beyond the safari roof that both the 88 and 109 carried on some models. There are several variants of the 109 model, though the only one that was ideal for "safari" (and desert) work was the "Suntrekker" conversion from the mid 1960's that is distinguished by having a pair of rear axles. Could you provide more detail? Rgds, Dixon '64 109 -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 18 23:11:09 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: New Member From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:58:14 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada rsrose@celia.caltech.edu (RANDY ROSE (818)395-3840) writes: > At my request, our site has subscribed to this list for a week now, and no > postings yet! So, first this is a test to see if this message posts, and > secondly, this is to say hello and offer an introduction. Greetings. First, welcome to the list. There are a fair number of subscribers to this list, all widely distributed. As you can see, your message got out, and as for the no postings, I think that there has been eight or nine messages since last Sunday. Volume here tends to fluctuate, and right now seems to be ebbing a bit. Not to worry, it does pick up at times... :-) Rgds, Dixon '64 109 Station Wagon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 19 03:32:06 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Safaris To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 9:24:24 BST Land Rover never called it a Safari at all,they prefered the name Station Wagon.It is an 88" or 109" with tropical roof,four doors (109" only,88" had two)and a door at the back instead of top and bottom tailgate.This back door is now commonly known as a "Safari Door".It has side windows at the back which slide to open.Also has rear seats.The 109" is the most common from what I can see,but 88" can be seen.They were available in petrol and diesel form,and the 109" also had a 2.6 petrol option. Clear as mud? Cheers Mike Rooth PS Welcome from over here Randy From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 19 11:54:48 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Springs... Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:46:56 PDT From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Well, last weekend I decided to do something about my rear springs. I settled down with a box of tools and a lot of WD40. Surprizingly enough, 7 of the 8 U bolt nuts came off easily (a 2 foot lever arm and some strength helped). Just to show who was boss the other nut stripped and I'll hacksaw off that Ubolt later. When I got the left spring off, I found out why I had that list to port. The main leaf was busted right under the axle. To make matters worse, two owners ago, rewolded the frame and put new spring mounts on. I spent Saturday going from Ford to GM to Jeep asking, if the spring was one of theirs. The best guess is that it is off of an old 1.5 ton GM truck. This rear spring is a 6 leaf monster. Hopefully, I can get some local guy to make me a new leaf and re-arc these springs. And get this all done by friday so I can go out driving by the Salton Sea, CA. I had an interesting experience a few weeks ago in Nyack, NY (30 miles or so north of New York City). Theres a guy on Main street, just past Broadway, that restores Land Rovers (in addition to other cars). It was the SIIb on the street that caught my attention. He has about 11 Land Rovers, mostly 88s in various condition. Unfortunately he was trying to sell the SIIb to someone, so I couldn't get his card. has anyone heard of, or done business with this guy? -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 03:14:36 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: With regards to unknown springs etc. From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:08:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada I think you will find American spring stock is considerably thicker that the original LR stuff which results in much stiffer ride. Great for carrying loads, but uncomfortable. Trust me, I've done it... Regards, Ted -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 03:29:12 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: In regards to Dixons claims in mud... From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:15:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada In regards to you claiming that I hopelessly bogged you upon the logs, etc., this was a tactical error on my part. However, it did work in my favour. I did not have a 109 lodged in the trail in front of me, which is exactly where you would have been. Your pathetic rock filling effort was a waste as I am certain I would have walked through anyway with the Land Rover. As for getting mired winching George's 88 one must remember to look out for number one first. Perhaps if you were more strategically positioned this may not have happened. On the thirty first, a new trail will be blazed and with any luck your new found mud miring techniques will be put to the test assuming you have repaired your beast by such time. Remember, you broke your frame in the same mud miring areas where I sailed through without incident. Wallow in the mud Dixon. See you there (probably towing you, George, and others out). Regards, Ted -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 03:29:13 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Safari information... From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:55:19 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Let me add my two pence. or cents, to what Dixon and Mike have to say... I believe Dixon is correct in calling it a safari although 109's were available without a tropical roof. There is a 109, or 88 Station Wagon, as well there is, or was an 88 or 109 Safari designation.. The difference lies in tropical roof panel *and* alpine windows. In North America I have seen 88 Station Wagons with seats and sliding windows, but without the tropical roof. I have not seen 109 Station Wagons (five door) without the tropical roof and alpine windows. However, I believe in the parts manual there are separate listings for each. Regards Ted -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 06:16:28 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Safari or not To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:07:12 BST We evidently have some confusion here.This is IMO based on two things.Land Rovers exports,and semantics. Over here,the station Wagon *is* the Safari,both 88 and 109. It has all the trimmings.If it hasnt got all the trimmings,it aint a Safari.On the home market,Land Rover didnt call it a Safari,just the Station Wagon.In fact,I beleive they got almost huffy if you *did* call it a Safari. It seems though that what was exported a)Was called a Safari,and b)Wasnt what *we* would call one. I personally have never seen a Station Wagon without the tropical roof,but *have* seen "blind" hardtops with it.And the Alpine windows. I suppose the answer is that if you wanted it,and Land Rover made it you could order what you liked.And since,as Dixon says they are full size Meccano sets,that is what oyu got.Confusing,isnt it? Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 04:59:53 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: With regards to unknown springs etc. To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:49:08 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Ted Rose" at Jul 19, 93 10:08 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Ted Rose writes: > I think you will find American spring stock is considerably thicker that > the original LR stuff which results in much stiffer ride. Great for > carrying loads, but uncomfortable. Trust me, I've done it... Good grief, that must be a _really hard_ ride. I find the standard SWB springs to hard and am going to fit military 5 and 7 leafers. I am presuming the softer spinging will help off road - any views/experience? Cheers, Steve. V8 AP From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 17:18:13 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: springs Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:07:37 PDT From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu After looking around various places, I've dertermined that the springs I have are off a Chevy Blazer or Suburban. Yes the ride is a bit stiff, but I'm used to it. Since the car was an east coast car, I was informed by a guy who rebuilds springs that they are completely shot. He can build me new springs for $230 each. Chevy will sell me the springs for $301 each. Now I'm thinking about having the guys at British Pacific cut off the current spring mounts and put on Rover springs. (Especially since at last look RN had springs for $155 each.) Sooner or later I'll get the Rover back on the road. I guess this is what happens when your only car is an old Rover. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 18:07:32 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: springs Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:07:37 PDT From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu After looking around various places, I've dertermined that the springs I have are off a Chevy Blazer or Suburban. Yes the ride is a bit stiff, but I'm used to it. Since the car was an east coast car, I was informed by a guy who rebuilds springs that they are completely shot. He can build me new springs for $230 each. Chevy will sell me the springs for $301 each. Now I'm thinking about having the guys at British Pacific cut off the current spring mounts and put on Rover springs. (Especially since at last look RN had springs for $155 each.) Sooner or later I'll get the Rover back on the road. I guess this is what happens when your only car is an old Rover. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 22:17:03 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: In regards to Dixons claims in mud... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:39:39 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) writes: > In regards to you claiming that I hopelessly bogged you upon the logs, > etc., this was a tactical error on my part. However, it did work in my > favour. I did not have a 109 lodged in the trail in front of me, which > is exactly where you would have been. A tactical error eh... That can be construed as an understatement. You were not in water that lapped halfway up my shins as I sat in the 109 steering & winching through the mosquito infested mire. 'Tis a favour I hope to return in the near future when we go down the new trail beside the beaver pond. You shall go ahead this time I hope, as with the 200 feet of one and a half inch hawser, my reach at getting you unstuck is greatly increased. Yes, I do agree, I should look out for number one first. I shall pay strict attention to this detail where your Series III is concerned. However, how should I react when I sit and watch you nearly roll your little pet as you did trying to get up the rock face? I know attacking it at an angle is a novel approach, though completely loony if you ask me... > On the thirty first, a new trail will be blazed and with any luck your > new found mud miring techniques will be put to the test assuming you have > repaired your beast by such time. It shall be repaired. A 1/8" thick sheet of plate steel has been obtained, and the creation of a new outrigger shall commence this coming Saturday. > Wallow in the mud Dixon. > See you there (probably towing you, George, and others out). You wish... I'm going to bring a camera this time, and if you embarrass yourself, rest assured the proof shall be a GIF on hoosier before the week is out... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 22:35:19 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Safari or not From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:24:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth writes: > We evidently have some confusion here.This is IMO based on two > things.Land Rovers exports,and semantics. Which is why we are having fun over this... :-) > Over here,the station Wagon *is* the Safari,both 88 and 109. > It has all the trimmings.If it hasnt got all the trimmings,it aint > a Safari.On the home market,Land Rover didnt call it a Safari,just > the Station Wagon. Ahh, thus the other version would be the straight Hard Top, though it lacks the tropical roof, sliding windows and rear seats. I do believe however that the 110 did come as a Station Wagon, but lacked the tropical roof, though had the other extra items. While the discussion is interesting, unfortunately there is probably no resolution to the debate. BL/JRT/RG etc doesn't even know what nuts and bolts they used in various spots on the LR in the past, don't have a clue to what they produced over the various ranges of their cars, so that they might know what they produced outside of raw numbers for the Land Rover is open to debate. An example would be with the TR-7/8 series where Rover denied ever using some ranges of serial numbers (stated on their letterhead too), yet I have actually seen cars with serial numbers in those ranges. Go figure... So no one has any comments on the FAQ table of contents? I guess I'll post it in ten, or so, parts in the next few days for a more detailed critique... 900 lines and counting, still under the 1,000 RFC822 limit. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 23:04:46 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: In regards to Dixons claims in mud... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:39:39 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) writes: > In regards to you claiming that I hopelessly bogged you upon the logs, > etc., this was a tactical error on my part. However, it did work in my > favour. I did not have a 109 lodged in the trail in front of me, which > is exactly where you would have been. A tactical error eh... That can be construed as an understatement. You were not in water that lapped halfway up my shins as I sat in the 109 steering & winching through the mosquito infested mire. 'Tis a favour I hope to return in the near future when we go down the new trail beside the beaver pond. You shall go ahead this time I hope, as with the 200 feet of one and a half inch hawser, my reach at getting you unstuck is greatly increased. Yes, I do agree, I should look out for number one first. I shall pay strict attention to this detail where your Series III is concerned. However, how should I react when I sit and watch you nearly roll your little pet as you did trying to get up the rock face? I know attacking it at an angle is a novel approach, though completely loony if you ask me... > On the thirty first, a new trail will be blazed and with any luck your > new found mud miring techniques will be put to the test assuming you have > repaired your beast by such time. It shall be repaired. A 1/8" thick sheet of plate steel has been obtained, and the creation of a new outrigger shall commence this coming Saturday. > Wallow in the mud Dixon. > See you there (probably towing you, George, and others out). You wish... I'm going to bring a camera this time, and if you embarrass yourself, rest assured the proof shall be a GIF on hoosier before the week is out... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 03:31:39 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Springs easy on the bum To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 9:18:48 BST Steve wonders whether soft springs are better off road.perhaps a comment made to me by an ex-army sergeant of my aquaintance may be relevant.He is a great Land Rover fan,and when I asked him his views on the current coil spring army vehicles he said "they are too comfortable".Which being translated meant that his squaddies drove them too fast off road and broke them.Regularly.The Lightwieghts would have reached the limit of crew endurance long before they broke. Draw your own conclusions.Mine is that you just cant win! Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 10:09:18 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:56:30 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: British Rovers, Inc. flyer Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/ Atlantic British Parts of CA. Anyone know about either of these outfits (not mentioned in the list)? They're offering things like rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for $250, etc. Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.] nothing for others. Order number for the interested 800.327.6837. Monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 11:39:55 1993 Return-Path: Date: 22 Jul 1993 09:28:27 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out Cc: In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/07/22 15:20:45 UT from (BRANDENBERG) Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out" Subject: Re: British Rovers, Inc. flyer brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com (Monty) writes: >Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/ >Atlantic British Parts of CA. Anyone know about either of these >outfits (not mentioned in the list)? They're offering things like >rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for >$250, etc. Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.] >nothing for others. Order number for the interested 800.327.6837. Personally, call Rovers North at (802) 879-0032. *============================================================================* * * __________ * * Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles * * ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * :__Range_Rover__: are for * * * (_) (_) Exceptional People| * *============================================================================* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 11:57:05 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:47:18 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: British Rovers, Inc. flyer >>Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/ >>Atlantic British Parts of CA. Anyone know about either of these >>outfits (not mentioned in the list)? They're offering things like >>rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for >>$250, etc. Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.] >>nothing for others. Order number for the interested 800.327.6837. > >Personally, call Rovers North at (802) 879-0032. > I deal with RN and I don't think this is RN, is it? They are both in VT but this new one has prices that are significantly lower than RN on their specials. So, are you saying they're the same or that one should stay away from British Rovers? monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 12:33:06 1993 Return-Path: Date: 22 Jul 1993 10:20:22 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out Cc: In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/07/22 17:10:14 UT from (BRANDENBERG) Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out" Subject: Re: British Rovers, Inc. flyer >>>Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/ >>>Atlantic British Parts of CA. Anyone know about either of these >>>outfits (not mentioned in the list)? They're offering things like >>>rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for >>>$250, etc. Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.] >>>nothing for others. Order number for the interested 800.327.6837. >> >>Personally, call Rovers North at (802) 879-0032. >> > >I deal with RN and I don't think this is RN, is it? They are both >in VT but this new one has prices that are significantly lower than >RN on their specials. So, are you saying they're the same or that >one should stay away from British Rovers? British Rovers/Atlantic British Parts of CA is the west coast arm of Atlantic British Ltd in Mechanicville, NY. They are competitors of Rovers North (RN). Not to go into to detail, I will not use Atlantic British due to past screw ups on mine and acquaintances' orders. Paul From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 20:39:51 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: springs From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:07:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes: > me new springs for $230 each. Chevy will sell me the springs for $301 each. > Now I'm thinking about having the guys at British Pacific cut off the current > spring mounts and put on Rover springs. (Especially since at last look RN > had springs for $155 each.) Springs from Merseyside are the following: (in pounds) Front swb petrol 24.90 Front swb diesel 28.90 Front lwb petrol 28.90 Front lwb diesel 28.90 Rear swb 34.90 Rear lwb (standard) 34.90 Rear lwb (heavy duty) 34.90 A pound is running approx $2Cdn, so multiple the above prices by about 1.7 to get the US dollar price. A quick fax to Merseyside will get you the shipping costs. This is the cheapest way to go methinks. If you do decide to go this route, make sure you specify that you have a NADA (North American Dollar Area) vehicle. The springs between British (lhd) and North American (rhd) vehicles *are* different. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 00:27:39 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: OVLR July Newsletter From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 00:15:29 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada OTTAWA VALLEY LAND ROVERS 1016 NORMANDY CRESCENT, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA K2C OL4 5 July 1993 G'day eh: In the beginning--in rained...... At the going down of the sun--it rained.... But in between---IT WAS MARVELLOUS. So went the kick-off to OVLR's 10th anniversary celebrations as nearly 50 members, their families and friends mingled with Land Rovers of many vintages and conditions at "Doc" Dolan's getaway near A]monte over the June l9th weekend. Overall, it was a good beginning to our year-long celebrations marking a decade of Land Rover activities. We saw the appearance of the first annual "Saab pulling contest", the largest Land Rover turnout and a major fireworks display that was actually planned that way. Things began Friday afternoon with the advance team of Mike McDermott and Bob Wood pulling through the mist into the high meadow at Dolan's. After a quick walk about in the tall grass to find the perfect flat spot---then realizing they should have put their wet suits on BEFORE they left the trucks--the soggy pair set up the kitchen trailer and retired to Bob's tent for a little warming libation. That set the trend for the weekend and, before their little bums had a chance to dry, they were joined by Don Watson and Gabby from Wingham, Bates and his clan and the lovely and charming Fred Joyce, winner of this year's Lugnut Award. As the sky began to clear Friday night, the group was invaded by a ba-zillion mosquitos. The smoke pots and repellent came out but, after putting up a brave front, the mildewed band soon headed for the security of their tents and a good night's sleep. Saturday morning came warm and sunny--not a mosquito in sight--and, as coffee spread through stiff limbs, the pristine shape of Murray Jackson's Lightweight hove into sight with Bruce Ricker in close pursuit. Harry and Lyn rumbled in with all the fixings for Saturday's banquet. Jason Dowell dragged a house trailer behind his GM tow-horse while his trusty 88 arrived separately. Charlie and Pam Haigh drove from Vermont with a 109 load of birthday presents from Rovers North. They were followed closely by Dave Davey and Nancy representing the Series One Club and Richard and Pat Owens in their Volvo-powered 109 wagon. And so it went with Land Rovers trundling into camp all morning amid handshakes and hugs and giggles all round until event co-ordinator Ted Rose welcomed all and announced it was time for a little off-roading. To say the course was a little muddy, is to say the ocean is a little moist. The wettest spring in memory had dissolved what, in drier years, had humorously been called a road and the Land Rovers spent the afternoon doing the "Warwickshire Wallow" . Another Land Rover was summoned from camp and, after a little winching from the "dry side", the mud-caked warriors returned triumphant to the strains of Mozart wafting over barbecued chicken and ribs. Class act. Casualties were light: Sean McGuire's squeaky clean bottom half when Fred Joyce dragged him from the cab into the mire and Bate's recent Tremclad paint job when "Sally", his 107, became stuck and Al felt the need to discipline her with the application of a rock to several parts of her long-suffering body panels. After dinner it was time to relax a little, chat with the neighbours and let the day's events mellow in the mind. Well, almost. An audible "whump" announced the beginning of the bonfire as Bob Wood overcame the natural reluctance of wet firewood to ignite with a generous application of high- test. As the surrounding trees vaporized and a mushroom-shaped cloud staggered into the heavens, Bob and his black-faced accomplices clawed their way up the crater walls and the party began. After a little socializing, an embarrassing sing-a-long attempt and some marshmallow incineration, it was time for the fireworks. It only seemed natural that a man who has blown up everything from power tools, to old meat, set fire to acetylene tanks, his trusty Land Rover and himself and makes more noise sleeping than a moose in heat, should handle the fireworks. Actually, to the disappointment of the more cynical among us who have seen Bates at his bungling best, only the fireworks exploded and burned this time. It was a good show and ended to the tune of Happy Birthday sung from the gallery surrounding the fire pit. Even Sally, who acted as table and rocket launcher, escaped any serious damage. As the fireworks subsided the homebodies headed for their tents and the hard- bodies repaired to the 88 pick-up of George Kearney where lurked a mega-litre keg of ice-cold beer. Talk soon turned to Land Rover's legendary pulling power and before anyone could say "drop a cog and stomp it Gertrude", a four-door Saab--"sans wheels"--was pressed into service as a drag sled. After several roars around the track--which unfortunately coincided with the campsite--the competitors came to the conclusion that maybe midnight tractor pulls were not the best way to win friends and influence people and headed for the showers. Sunday morning came slowly into focus for many celebrants and more than one mumbled complaints about the racket the breeze was making in the poplar trees. Several even missed the club breakfast--sausages, eggs, homefries, toast, fruit juice, coffee--opting instead for a closer relationship with the port-a-potty. All were up later however to hear President Yves talk about the club's first decade and the journey from a small group of friends who shared a love for Britain's most famous vehicle to Canada's largest, oldest and most successful Land Rover organization. Pam Haigh, whose husband Charlie runs the mechanical end of Rovers North, presented Yves with a T-shirt for his presidential body and a super water container for the club trailer. Then she unloaded a pile of gifts from the RN warehouse and "Crazy Al the auctioneer" went to work flinging gaskets, wipers, oil filters, note pads, frisbees, mugs and mystery prizes into the crowd. In all, we collected $48 before giving the rest of the stuff away. Then it was time for the official photo and 16 Land Rovers--and one Range Rover--lined up with their keepers to pose for history and a guaranteed place in the planned anniversary yearbook. With clouds moving in, people began folding their tents, looking for keys and kids and saying their goodbyes. When the rain finally returned by late afternoon only the cleanup crew remained loading up the kitchen trailer and burning the garbage. An hour later they too were gone and the mist was alone again in the high meadow. Special thanks to Ted Rose for co-ordinating the anniversary party, Harry and Lyn for their cooking skills, Bates for the auction, the fireworks and for not blowing us all to hell, Mark and Andrea Letorney of Rovers North for their generosity, Pam and Charlie for trucking the loot up here, Murray Jackson for offering to lead the Ottawa convoy to the party, Bob, Fred, Bates, Mike and President Yves for cleanup, Jason and Jerry Dowell and Roy Bailie for port-a-potty patrol, George for organizing the beer keg and Mike and Pat Dolan, basking under the depleted ozone in Saudi Arabia, for the use of their fabulous party place. Come home soon Doc. It just ain't the same without ya...... Editors Note: My thanks to Mike McD for contributing the above article and for the pictures that follow. [Photo] Pam Haigh bearing gifts from Rovers North Limited [Photo] Roy Bailie on the Throne of Ireland The Club Trailer.... [Photo] ============================================================================= THE JULY EXECUTIVE MEETING....With the strains of "Hearts of Oak" in the background the meeting was chaired by VP Harry Bligh at the RCN Naval Association....Fred Barrett informed the Prez. he is unable to act as secretary. Jerry Dowell was appointed to fill the position for the remainder of Fred's term...."Doc" Dolan will be asked if OVLR can erect a permanent potty at the Birthday Party site for the benefit of those with weak kidneys and loose bowels...In future all events will have a chairman appointed by and responsible to the executive....An Executive Committee has been set up to review the legal status of OVLR... The Executive is now as follows: Prez. Yves Fortin, V.Prez Harry Bligh, Sec. Jerry Dowell and Treas. Tom Mayor NEXT EXECUTIVE MEETING...Sassy Saddle Restaurant, Stitsville Flea Market, West on Hazeldean Road, Tuesday, 3 Aug 7:30 pm (613) 836-2454 CLUB EVENTS... JULY...Off Road weekend organized by Ted Rose at "Doc" Dolan's farm 31 July, 9:00 am. Meet at Shoppers City West 8:00 am, near the Beer Store Contact Ted Rose (613) 256-1598. AUGUST...OVRL Breakfast at Victoria Island, Organized by Al (Bates) Pilgrim and Yves Fortin, 14 August, 9:00 am. $3.00/person. Want to help? Call Bates (613) 731-6616 OCTOBER....Frame Oiler, Organized by Roy Bailie, 23 October, 8:00 am, Want to help Call Roy Bailey (613) 523-5740 ============================================================================= NEWS...FOR SALE.... EVENTS....ETC... HONDA.... announced it will buy Land Rover Discovery sport utility vehicles and market them under the Crossroad name through their Verno distribution organization in Japan. Honda expects to sell 1,000 vehicles a year. The Discovery is currently sold in Japan by Land Rover at ~3.85 million (yen) / $46 000 a copy. FOR SALE - 1974 Ser III 88", rebuilt engine (1,500 miles), good frame, overdrive, well maintained. $4,500 / offers David Bateman (514) 481-3152. FOR SALE - Two, 1956, 109, Cab and Box Land Rovers, Front mount mechanical winch also many miscellaneous parts. $1,500 for the works. Mubarulk Carroll, (705) 841-2560 FOR SALE - 1967 Ser. IIA diesel pick-up, many extra parts. US $5800, Fred (407) 267-7376 WELCOME... to new members Frank Herock and Robert St. Louis BRITISH INVASION WEEKEND...Stowe Vermont 17, 18 and 19 September. All sorts of British stuff including Land Rovers ============================================================================ GENERAL SERVICE .........................................By Robin Craig The last month has been very busy and, so, this page will be full. First up: Land Rover have returned to the big screen. In CLIFFHANGER, Sylvester Stallone does us proud by driving a series 3 109 station wagon. The vehicle looks standard, although the engine sounded more powerful than the conventional four-cylinder. I offer two possible explanations for this. First, perhaps a sound bank provided a generic "truck type" engine noise for the film's sound track. Second, since filming happened in Colorado, the vehicle may have a Chevy transplant or even a Rover 6 cylinder. It is great to see Land Rovers in the movies again. Recently, the good people at Rovers North have gained a diesel 90 from Germany, another addition to the ex-military vehicles they have owned or sold. No doubt, Mark Letorney and crew will put it to work along side the 101 FC. Have fun with Your new toy, guys! Talking of 90's: Numerous rumours are coming from the UK about their future. Some concern a new vehicle possibly called Challenger and based on the 90 series but with a cut-down Discovery body. I doubt that the vehicle will be called "Challenger," mainly because it is the name of the British Army's main battle tank. It could be the project name, though: remember that the Discovery project was called "JAY." Finally, manufacturing of the 90 may change this fall, since a monocoque-bodied 90, perhaps with a Discovery-type front end, could be launched. Since monocoque body panels are welded together instead of being bolted together, as is more usual, aligning them is easier, and assembly quicker. Several people report that the 90's destined for North America have gone down the production line at Solihull. My own source says that as of 22 June they had not; but anything can happen in a week. Some of you on the mailing list of Crown Assets in Edmonton may not have received anything for a while. According to David Lowe (Daphne to his friends), if you do not enter a bid on any lot in three consecutive tenders, then your name drops from the list. David says the way he gets around this by writing a letter stating "no bids at this time." Crown Assets lists vehicles in lots and sells them by tender. Should you contact the address below, state that you are interested in all wheeled and tracked vehicles: Supply and Services Canada Crown Assets Distribution Centre 15508 114 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5M 3S8 FAX (403) 495 3399 David says the rules have been relaxed for the last couple of tenders. For whzt was offered were well-cannibalised 90 and 110 frames, and it was ridiculous to require that this material be exported from the country. In fact, the last batch aroused so little interest that the whole lot was reported sold for only $6000! Marco, recently the editor of the Toronto-area club's newsletter, is now out in British Columbia, about to go to UBC. His original intention to plant trees for the cash took a different route, as it were. Joining a planting outfit, he found that their domestic 4 X 4's had trouble getting their loads of seedlings up the slopes and goat paths of the clear cuts. Since Marco owns an ex-military series 3 109 FFR, his boss has him transport seedlings with it. The 109 is doing sterling service. On the other hand, Marco says he has now become tired of off-road driving! Our intrepid Albertan club member Alex (call me Bodger) Heath is at it again. He managed a good look around the British base at Wainright and even test drove a 110 Defender arctic spec. He comments only that wind-down windows look out of place on a military Land Rover. He did like the cab's sunroof, which is in fact an escape hatch, for times the vehicle gets caught in snow drifts! Alex has also found an old NADA 109 station wagon with a damaged limited slip differential. lf you have replacement parts or know where to get them, please contact me or call Alex direct at 1 403 842 2955, evenings. My thanks to Dale Desprey for recently aiding a fellow club member's wife, who had a machine stuck nose first in some bushes. Thanks, Dale. I have received the good news that a contact in DND will give me pictures of Simon Skuse's two 101 FC's under evaluation by the Canadian Forces in 1972/3. For those of you who are unaware, it has taken nearly four years of struggle to get photos. More later. That is all for this month.............................Robin (613) 738-7880 From the Newsletter Editor, Cheers.............David Meadows (613) 599-8746 ============================================================================ -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 03:05:55 1993 Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Safari? From: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 18:00:36 MDT Organization: The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 Sorry, I was out of town longer than I thought I would be. It's rather rude to post a question and then not respond to the kind replies. What piqued my interest about "Safaris" in the first place was a brief passage in a very old back-issue of an automotive magazine that I glanced at in the barber shop. It seemed to suggest that there was a special Safari model of Land Rover that included the tropical roof, "modified" rear windows, and a single bench seat in the back (as opposed to the two along the sides). Unfortunately, the reference was vague, and I didn't get a chance to go back and read it again after I'd been shorn. Thanks to those who cleared things up a bit. --- grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 13:07:49 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 17:54:22 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Merseyside springs Dixon quoted you some nice spring prices (in pounds)-but don't forget to add the import tax (I think it may be nearly 17%...I recently ordered some fishing bits from an outfit in england and was surprised to find the added duty was sooo high...don't you canadians have to pay this as well??) rdushin/nigel (who is a NON-tropical NON-alpine windowed blindsider) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 13:52:54 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 18:40:03 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Nyack guy Ben- The guy in Nyack is John Womack (spelling?). In the good old days he was the service rep for LRNA for the northeastern area (I am not sure that there was an official service rep designation..but for the purposes of this note "service rep" fits his description). He was LRNA's northeastern "field mechanic"..that is to say, if you had a problem with your LR he'd come to your place and fix it for ya. Although I was but a tike in those days, I can vaguely remember him coming to our house to tune our old '60 '88 softop (rolled in an accident while towing wood for a barn that has since collapsed, and replaced by a '67 '88 softop that has since been converted into a NON- tropical NON-alpine windowed "no longer sliding" windowed hardtop but still runs and works hard just the same). John is quite the character. He speaks with the thickest of british accents interrupted by a consistent-every two second or fifth syllabel (whichever comes first)-studder. His sentances are oftimes begun and ended with a "badeeba bdde badeeba" which actually makes him more easily understood (you can thereby figure out where the last thought ended and the next one begins). My "sig other" and I stopped in (I live and work nearby, sorta) about a year ago (I have been back a few times since to chat rovers) and we talked for about an hour or more about those good old days. He was delighted and excited to see me and recalled those times fixing our '60 amidst horse shit, flys, and little naked kids (ie me and my siblings). He proudly displayed the ID badges from several rovers that had been owned by others in the town I grew up in (garrison, ny) and showed me the (remains of) the vehicles owned by people who've since moved away........cars I used to drip ice cream on, wipe my snot on, and play around at horse shows, etc. Upon leaving, my "sig other" (who patiently listened throughout the event-fortunately, she has a cursory interest in rovers herself) asked "did you understand ANYTHING he said???". She was apparently lost throughout, but I had mastered the "catch every fifth word and extract the meaning of the sentance from there" technique of following just what it was he was saying to me. Surprisingly, John is still in the rover business. As you pointed out, he does have (and work on) other cars (mostly british...some rovers and older jags strew his lot), but his true love lies in the big beast of aluminium. Although I have not personally used him for mechanical work (do it all myself-along with the rest of us) I have managed to get some used bits from him (although I sense he likes to keep them around for spares) from time to time. He does do some resto work (sans painting, I believe....he is another of us "just drive it and keep it dirty" types and sees no need for the pristine) and is willing to sell any complete rovers on his lot (for a price). If any other of you netters is ever in the metro-NY area a trip to Nyack for a classic "Womack experience" is highly recommended. So long as he is in a good mood and has time to spare, a solid hour or more of roveresque conversation is guaranteed (just remeber to bring your interpreter). Cheers all, rdushin/nige/the roach From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 14:11:38 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 19:00:39 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: springs Ben- did you consider the possiblility that the springs you've got are off of a Toyota Land Cruiser (god forbid). they can be used, but you are "supposed" to remove one leaf first (you are really SUPPOSED to use the genuine brit bit, though)....perhaps the previous owner did not. also, i am a bit confused about the welding that was done, and am not sure you've got a real rover to compare it to (do you??). Note that you need the two pairs of plates to hold the shackle pins to the springs/frame ("shackle plates"??? mounting brackets??)...if someone did a REAL botch job on it, they may well have left them off (for supreme comfort, no doubt), which might leave you with the impression that a rover spring won't fit. hmmm, rdushin/etc From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 16:49:45 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: springs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jul 93 19:00:39 PST." <9307231900.AA11636@y1.sdsc.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:42:38 PDT From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu rdushin writes: > did you consider the possiblility that the springs you've got are off of > a Toyota Land Cruiser (god forbid). they can be used, but you are > "supposed" to remove one leaf first (you are really SUPPOSED to use > the genuine brit bit, though)....perhaps the previous owner did not. The Geology department at Caltech has a Land Cruiser and that was the first thing that I checked. I went to a spring rebuild place and they measured the spring and declared that is was off a Chevy Blazer. A quick trip to a Chevy dealer claimed that the same spring was used on their suburbans. > also, i am a bit confused about the welding that was done, and am not > sure you've got a real rover to compare it to (do you??). Note that > you need the two pairs of plates to hold the shackle pins to the > springs/frame ("shackle plates"??? mounting brackets??)...if someone > did a REAL botch job on it, they may well have left them off (for > supreme comfort, no doubt), which might leave you with the impression that > a rover spring won't fit. Two owners ago had his own welding show and rewelded large portions of the frame. He even cut off the Rover exhaust mounts and the axle stop mounts on the frame. On the rear end, he cut off the front mount of the rear spring and welded on a wider mount. On the back he welded two steel plates on either side of the frame and drilled a hole in the plated for the shackel bolt. Thus the rear Rover spring mount is still there, just covered. It looks like this: weld *********** frame ------| \ / |----------- (rear cross member) | o | <--Rover mount | O | <-new mount hole \__________/ Two owners ago also removed the rear crossmember and welded in place a diamond plate bumper (which is quite handy). I'm haveing the guys at British Pacific remove the current mount and fix or put in a new spring mount. Labor+Rover Parts is not much more than two new Chevy springs and Ubolts. If I know how to weld, I'd be temped to do it my self. The worst part about all of this is that I'm heading out to the Salton Sea tonight to spend the weekend offRoading in the desert sans Rover. Ben Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 SIII 88 Land Rover From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 17:32:26 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 22:23:13 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: oh well >The worst part about all of this is that I'm heading out to the Salton Sea tonight to spend the weekend offRoading in the desert sans Rover. things could be worse you know.......you could be stuck inside writing reports and book chapters that have impending deadlines. my rover will be idle this weekend as well. rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 00:25:24 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Merseyside springs From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 17:58:55 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes: > Dixon quoted you some nice spring prices (in pounds)-but don't forget > to add the import tax (I think it may be nearly 17%...I recently ordered > some fishing bits from an outfit in england and was surprised to find > the added duty was sooo high...don't you canadians have to pay this > as well??) There is no duty to pay on parts coming into Canada for vehicles that are consider antiques. To qualify, your vehicle must be 25 years old, or older. Of course, as British parts are exchangable , and Brtitish cars 25+ years old qualifies for parts for your Land Rover. You should check with US Customs to see if the same applies for the USA. > rdushin/nigel (who is a NON-tropical NON-alpine windowed blindsider) Poor Nigel... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 03:07:25 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: LRO FAQ, part one From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:53:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada LAND ROVER FAQ last modified: July 22, 1993 archive site: /pub/sol/landrover.faq @ hoosier.cs.utah.edu Original file: /pub/sol/landrover.ascii @ hoosier.cs.utah.edu by Teriann Wakeman modified by: Dixon Kenner ============================================================================= CONTENTS: 1. What is a Land Rover? 2. What Land Rovers were imported to North America? - Series I - Series II & IIA - Series III 3. Engines - Petrol (4 cylinder) - Diesel - Petrol (6 cylinder) 4. Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover - Checking under the Land Rover - Starting the engine - Test driving - Land Rover extras - Value 5. Specifications - General - Capacities (fluids) 6. Chassis numbering 7. Magazines & publications 8. Clubs 9. Parts - USA & Canada - Great Britain ============================================================================= 1. WHAT IS A LAND ROVER Land Rovers are true classic roadsters with a removable hard top (or soft top) and removable metal side curtains. Land Rovers have an aluminum body with a steel frame, firewall and front (holds radiator). The tops are bolted on. The front doors have side curtains that unbolt. Full metal tops, pickup metal tops and canvas tops are available. The engine, while underpowered, has been described by pro mechanics as seriously overbuilt. The car was meant to survive the charge of a adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. Land Rovers have more charisma in its lug nuts than most cars have in their whole body. They are not very fast, don't have all the comforts for a city new car driver and they are noisy inside. If you get one, you will have to deal with people going ga-ga over it in parking lots, frequent honks from strangers and people staring at your car as they drive past. You also have to deal with people who think it is a Japanese imitation Land Cruiser. Not to worry, owning this khaki coloured monster generates fierce loyalty and enthusias among the converted. ============================================================================= 2. WHAT LAND ROVERS WERE IMPORTED TO NORTH AMERICA There are two common types of Land Rover in the United States, a third more uncommon type in North America, and a fourth uncommon type in Canada and the UK. The common Land Rovers are the short wheel base model 88 and the long wheel base model 109. The model 109 was imported into the US until 1968. The model 88 was imported until 1974. There were older models but they are few in number and parts are difficult to get. There are also newer models, but they were not imported to the US. In 1992, a special version of the 110 Discovery was imported into North America where 500 went to the United States, and 25 to Canada. It is reported that 16,000 Land Rovers were imported into North America when they were available for sale. Estimates of surviving vehicles range from a low of 4,000 to a high of over 10,000. The 109 came in several versions, of which the two door (pickup) and four door (station wagon) are the most common. The 109 2 door has a 6 foot bed. There is a rare model of four door 109 called the Doormobile. It is the Land Rover camper. It has a pop up top (like the VW van camper), refrigerator, sink, propane stove and other goodies. 109 versions: Regular with canvas top Pick-up Pick-up with 3/4 hood with side windows Regular with hard top Station Wagon (10 or 12 seater) High capacity pick-up Doormobile The swb, or 88 came as a two door pick-up, or the more common three door version. Unlike the 109 Station Wagon, it is possible to remove the roof and windows of a swb to create a soft top version. 88 versions: Canvas top Pick-up Pick-up with 3/4 hood Hard top with sliding side windows Station wagon The third type is the 101 Forward Control. The fourth, uncommon type which can be found in Canada and the UK is the military lightweight. This is the military version of the swb Land Rover, and despite the name, actually weighs more than a swb Land Rover, though narrower so to fit into an RAF Andover aircraft. 88 - 109 comparison: The 88 being lighter and having a shorter wheel base, is a superior offroad car. It doesn't get stuck as often and can turn in almost half the radius of the 109. Of course you can sleep inside a 109 two door or doormobile. There were three series of both models imported, series I (pre '58 hard to get parts for (short wheelbase series I seen in "The Gods Must be crazy)), Series II ('58-60), Series IIA ('61-'69 or '70 (earlier ones have headlights inside wings, later ones have headlamps on wings)), and Series III. Most people prefer the IIA to the series III. Series I were produced from 1947 through 1957. Wheelbases included the 80", 86", and 107". The basic engine was the 2 litre, four cylinder cross flow engine. In 1956 the 88" was introduced, followed in 1958 by the 2 litre diesel and 109" lwb. Series II were produced from 1958 to 1961. This saw the introduction of the 2.25 litre petrol engine. Series IIA were produced from 1961 until 1971 in both the 88 and 109 inch wheelbases. In 1962, the 2.25l diesel engine was introduced along with the Forward Control model. In 1967 the 2.6 litre, six cylinder engine was introduced for the 109 Station Wagon, as well as the Series IIB 110 Forward Control model 1967: seperate wiper motors to single motor in dash. 1969: headlamps moved from centre radiator grill to wings Series III were produced from 1971 until the early 1980's. Imports into North America ceased in 1974. The Series III saw the dash revised with black plastic, instruments moved from the centre of the fascia to a position in front of the driver. The door and bonnet hinges are flatter than Series IIA. More hidden was the all-synchro gearbox that was introduced, an uprated clutch, modified brakes with new drums, re-routed brake pipes and servo-assisted brakes as standard on all Station Wagons. And there was the all plastic front grill... In 1972 the V8 101 Forward Control was introduced. Electrics are positive earth from 1947 until 1967 when they were changed over to negative earth. (Note: a number of owners have changed their Land Rover from positive to negative earth, along with going from the dynamo/generator approach to an alternator. This should not effect the value.) Carberation was changed from the Solex to the Zenith in 1967. Parts and rebuild kits are difficult, if not impossible to obtain for the Solex. The recommended carb. change when your Solex is worn is to change it to a Weber for increased gas milage and a few more horsepower. TerriAnn notes: I have no problems taking my LR on long trips and have on several occasions been driving it 8 to 10 hours a day. It went car camping between Monterey bay and Portland Or last year, and on several 200 - 300 mile trips. This year I will take it back to Portland for the Portland all British car meet and to the LA area for the national Dairy goat show. My two door 109 is a great car camping long distance car. Its a bit on the noisy side (a common LR trait) but it is reasonably comfortable and if kept up extremely reliable. When I go on long trips I carry: Spare set of all special hoses, spare points, cap rotor, spare water pump lots of 90 weight oil and tools. On one trip I had to tighten the steering box mounts and add fluid to steering box. Other that that I have not had to work on the car while on a trip (of course I inspect things closely and top off fluids before taking a trip). Since Land Rovers are still in production, you can still get genuine factory parts :*) I get mine mail-order from New hampshire. If I am willing to pay overnight, I can get any part for the Land Rover new or used, next day. ============================================================================= -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 03:28:06 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: LRO FAQ, part three From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:56:40 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada 4. THINGS TO LOOK FOR WHEN SHOPPING FOR A LAND ROVER: To start, number one important aspect... FRAME, FRAME, FRAME... A second thing to bear in mind is when using guides to Land Rover purchase, if the guide is from the UK it will be a lot more tough on potential purchases than necessary. CHECKING UNDER THE LAND-ROVER: - Check the FRAME carefully for RUST damage. The frame is a thin walled rectangular tube shape, and is made of steel. In some parts of the country, it is not uncommon to find a Land Rover in good condition with a badly rusted frame. Take a hammer with you and firmly hit all crucial areas of the frame. If the frame dents, expect future problems, maybe sooner than later. At the front check behind the bumper (the spring hangers rust away), the shock absorber mounts and then the area around each of the bump stops. It is usually the rear bump stops that are the worst affected, where water and mud go between the chassis and the top of the bump stop mounting plate. Check the chassis outriggers. SWB cars suffer from problems on the right hand side below the rear edge of the door. The close proximity of the fuel tank encourages a build up of mud, which rarely dries out. This is also a difficult area to repair, with the fuel tank and wiring loom going through the frame a