From root Tue Nov 2 08:41:44 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Mail test To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 8:42:45 CST Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Status: RO To quote Bill Murray as he use to rap on Gilda Radner's head in a recurring Saturday Night Live Sketch: "H-e-l-l-o, is anybody in there?" Is it my email, or has it been rather quiet on this posting of late? The last message I received was on 10/29. If anyone has received a mass mail message since then please bounce me a copy at: phhester@ingr.com so I can further analyze what may be the problem. I recently set up a filter to forward all mail addressed or cc'd from lro@transfer.stratus.com to a separate folder (Whoever it was that sent those two messages some thirty+ times was my motivator) Anyway...I don't want to miss out on any of those exciting Rover (fish) stories. Again, anything more current than 10/29?? -- ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913.599.0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** From root Tue Nov 2 12:52:39 1993 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 11:46:37 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Rover parts Status: RO Since evrything was so slow I thought I would get something going. How about a parts exchange. I got stuff that I want, you have stuff you don't and maybe I have stuff you want. Here is something to start with: Two brand new Series III doors, no hinges, no paint door frame and skin, never been hung. These have the hole near the door handle for the anti-burst lock. I am open to offers or trades and I might even pay shipping depending on how far-read what country. Just a thought on how to get parts moved around to the people that need them. Hey if it's a stupid idea I know you nice Rover people won't hesitate to say so. Drive on. Roy From root Tue Nov 2 12:20:45 1993 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 13:17:27 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: "growl@terminous.eng.sun.com"@us1rmc.enet.dec.com Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Mail test Status: RO Except for it's length, I like the second one. From root Tue Nov 2 12:18:55 1993 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 10:14:08 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: Mail test Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Go ahead, make my day ^ | | @#####@ (### ###)-. .(### ###) \ / (### ###) ) (=- .@#####@|_--" /\ \_|l|_/ (\ (=-\ |l| / \ \.___|l|___/ /\ |_| / (=-\._________/\ \ / \._________/ # ---- # # __ # \########/ Regards > From brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com Tue Nov 2 09:59:28 1993 > To: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM > Apparently-To: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com > Subject: Re: Mail test > Content-Length: 74 > X-Lines: 3 > > > I hope that wasn't your signature. Yer gonna getcher self flamed, son. > > From root Tue Nov 2 11:46:40 1993 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 09:44:40 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Subject: Re: Mail test Status: RO ,^. | | ,^ | |/ / STILL GOING! | / / || | ( __\ _____ ,' (*) (*) / \ / >"< / O \ / ( \____| / | (*) ,.. \______) | ' / ) ,' /\ / `/ ,' '___ \_____/ <- <- <- ( `_____ _) <- <- \________) From root Wed Nov 3 00:08:16 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Diesel Stuff From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 19:07:40 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO See, Mike and I know that diesels are great. Did you say a "quiet" diesel? Mine rattles so much that I set off the alarms of the cars parked by the side of the road, just by driving by.(This actually happened). On long trips, I wear industrial ear defenders. I have a running bet that none of my friends can start it with the hand crank. If they can, the prize is a case of beer(12). I figure its a pretty safe bet. I heard, from someone that has considerable engine knowledge, that when a diesel burns oil due to worn rings, the compression can actually increase! I figure I must have tons of compression. If you have starting trouble, Mike, check the grounds (earths). I have times when the starter turns very slowly, but both batteries are fully charged. Even when the grounds look ok, a bit of emery paper and silicone dieletric compound, and it cranks away. How did that fellow blow up a diesel. I thought they were governed. With the vapour lock problem, first replace the coil. A bad coil can simulate vapour lock and other carb troubles. Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Tue Nov 2 19:24:29 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Mail test From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 18:14:30 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: _____ XXXXX| XXXXX|____ <<==== Still Going... ___________\_ (1949 - ) | |) |) ---- | __ \ | __ \ \ |-|__| . \ \____|\|__| O. | . / |/ / o <<==-- Not for very much longer... -- ( )-o (1991 - 1993 RIP) --------------\\------------------------------------------------- You do realise that the characters in Al Yankavik's song "Jurassic Park" would have lasted longer if they had been driving Land Rovers rather than Jeeps or Land Cruzers... T-Rex would have been driven off by the sweet smelling oils, fluids, etc. that leak from our aluminium friends, if not received quite the shock from the galvanic actions accelerated by his saliva when his sense of smell got lost after a diesel Land Rover went by. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Wed Nov 3 19:05:49 1993 From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: 2nd battery location To: twakeman@apple.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 8:58:41 CST Cc: britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9311032123.AA03149@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Nov 3, 93 1:23 pm Status: RO Terriann writes:> > Oh dear, I have petrol tanks under both front seats so no room for a battery > there. Perhaps on the lap of a passanger? Nooooo. There's got to be a place to put a second battery in my LR, ---Stuff deleted-- On my '66 109 H/top I had similar problems. I eventually put the second battery in front of the L/H rear wheel. Below where the inside spare tyre mount would be/is. This required a bit of swork but wasnt too bad. Have to cut a hole in the top of the side boxes, and make a guard to stop lotsa of mud and etc getting into it. Other than that not too bad. Took about 1/2 day. Have a look and see how it goes P.S. If its a wagon (Sorry I forget) well...... Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon _-*_|\ ( 360,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed) / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?" \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under" v From root Thu Nov 4 04:21:12 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:19:07 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Dale Desprey" at Nov 2, 93 7:07 pm Status: RO Yep,Dale,diesels are great,*and* I think your beer is safe for ever! Are you still running on the two 6V battery setup,or have you modded it to 12V? I've got a whacking great 12V under the bonnet,and the underseat battery box has become a useful tool storage facility. It was never big enough to house a respectable sized battery anyway, like the one I've got takes two people to lift it in and out,and has large handle on it to make this possible. Its great fun setting off car alarms isnt it?I'm never quite certain wether its the noise or the smoke that does it. A piece of emery cloth is my consant companion,mainly to clean the starter motor solenoid to battery connections,but I take your point about the earth connection on the engine block,this will be attended to ASAP.Thanks for that one,I admit to taking it for granted. One thing I'm hoping to do in the near future is to have the injectors set up,and the distributor pump properly timed,it *does* grieve me somewhat to see all that fuel I've paid for puthering out of the exhaust without doing any work.Mind you,when you get clowns behind you trying to overtake in silly places,a quick dab on the throttle causes a big enough smokescreen to make them think again.Difficult to drive *and* splutter all at the same time! Teriann,on *home* market Rovers(see,I'm learning!)the 11A petrol had one 65A/H 12V battery under the bonnet.The 11A diesel had two 6V batteries, one under the bonnet,one under the LH seat,connected to deliver 12V at 120A/H.With advent of the S111,one *large* 12V unit was mounted under the bonnet,mainly,I suspect,because 6V batteries were becoming difficult to get,and perhaps because one slightly duff battery would pull the other down with it,plus you had all those extra connections to worry about. Thats my theory anyway. To all those anti-diesel folk,I'd *much* rather sit on top of ten gallons of fuel oil,than the equivalent amount of nasty volatile petroleum spirit! Particularly when I smoke (not quite as much as the Rover,but nearly). I distinctly recall the occasion,not so long ago,when I smelt a whiff of diesel on my way home at night.On inspection,the brass spill pipe plug had come out of number two injector,lending a whole new meaning to the term "spill".The stuff was being pumped out all over the engine!Yours truly retires in haste to workshop,clutching offending part,and turns up a new plug on the lathe,all the while reflecting that had that amount of petrol been wandering about loose on a hot engine,I wouldnt have needed the heater at all! Ten minutes with the lathe and another ten with a Turbotorch and HMP solder paste and we were running again.Mind you,it smelt for days! Cheers Mike Rooth t From root Thu Nov 4 01:00:49 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Dale's date From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:30:07 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dale, we want to hear what your date thought about being taken out in the Land Rover... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Nov 4 01:30:26 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:23:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > Excuse me but batteries????? I thought all the Land Rovers came from the > factory with a single battery system. If the diesels came with two batterie > where did they put the second????? Several Land Rovers up here have two batteries. In a 109 Station Wagon, under the passenger seat is the usual place, as the petrol tank is in the rear. Where some of the others have hidden them, I'm not sure. Get a second battery tray, and stick it on the left side of the rad. > SOOOOO where is a good plpace to place a second battery??????????????? Since you are in warm, sunny California, dump the heater and modify the bulkhead a bit... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Nov 4 01:00:46 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Diesel Stuff From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:19:44 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > I have a running bet that none of my friends can start it with the hand > crank. If they can, the prize is a case of beer(12). I figure its a > pretty safe bet. Silly thing to say Dale. Guess what is going to appear in a newsletter when I become editor in January... It will be an event at the next Birthday Party... :-) That is a case of 12 for *every* person that manages eh? Rgds, Dixon PS, you missed this evenings meeting. Afterwards some of use decided that you should run for President of OVLR for next year. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Wed Nov 3 19:05:59 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 16:48:33 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO TeriAnn says: >Oh dear, I have petrol tanks under both front seats so no room for a battery >there. Perhaps on the lap of a passanger? Nooooo. Hmmmm, with this kind of fuel carrying capacity I think you ought to drop the second battery entirely and go with an auxilliary gasoline-powered electrical generator. Let's see: run a redundant wiring harness with switch-over capabilities, might need a little silicon to keep out the backcurrents and you'd have enough excess power to run a couple 100,000 candlepower beacons, er, work lights. Yeah! That's the ticket! monty From root Wed Nov 3 19:06:12 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:23:25 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com, lro@stratus.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO In message <9311032005.AA02674@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com> writes: > TeriAnn, > The owners guide for my SIII talks about a second battery under the > passengers > seat. ( Drivers seat if LHD ) > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Kevin Spooner > The Sports Works of Greeley > Specializing in Triumphs and British Sports Cars > > britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh dear, I have petrol tanks under both front seats so no room for a battery there. Perhaps on the lap of a passanger? Nooooo. There's got to be a place to put a second battery in my LR, preferably in the engine compartment. The only thing I have thought of so far is to go to an on carb air filter and use the space where the stock air filter sits for a second battery. Only problem is, I remove the air cleaner to get access to the distributer. Its much harder to do with a battery. The other thing I have thought of is a small battery in the right rear tool box that will have the fillerhose for the rear tank going through it. I'm not feeling good about a battery being in an enclosed space with a fuel filler hose junction. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Wed Nov 3 19:06:20 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 15:28:41 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO >The owners guide for my SIII talks about a second battery under the passengers >seat. ( Drivers seat if LHD ) There are two left-hand-side underseat floorpanels available: one with and one without a well for a second battery. My '69 IIa 88 has the well and it's condition strongly suggests original equipment. However, it has no cabling. monty From root Wed Nov 3 19:06:25 1993 From: britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff To: lro@stratus.com (lro@stratus.com) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:05:23 MST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO TeriAnn, The owners guide for my SIII talks about a second battery under the passengers seat. ( Drivers seat if LHD ) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Spooner The Sports Works of Greeley Specializing in Triumphs and British Sports Cars britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Wed Nov 3 19:07:52 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 11:07:31 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: Alan.Lancendorfer@eng.sun.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO So Al, what kind of wenching do you do that requires 12volts DC? Maybe we should take this discussion to the "nasty" alias. > > second battery was probably to use when wenching. > > A.L. From root Wed Nov 3 19:09:14 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:34:13 PST From: Alan.Lancendorfer@eng.sun.com (Alan Lancendorfer) To: Alan.Lancendorfer@eng.sun.com, twakeman@apple.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO The only heater I have is the Smiths on the drivers side. A.L. By the way, I've already been called on the spelling of winch and winching. >From twakeman@apple.com Wed Nov 3 10:15:25 1993 >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:08:39 -0800 >From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" >To: Alan.Lancendorfer@Eng, twakeman@apple.com, lro@stratus.com >Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff >Content-Length: 870 >X-Lines: 20 > >In message <9311031743.AA26187@landrover.Eng.Sun.COM> Alan Lancendorfer writes: >> TeriAnn, >> Mine (Series 11A, 109) came with a second one mounted up by the >> voltage regulator almost against the bulkhead, sitting parallel >> to it. There was also a knife-switch installed between the two >> batteries. My Landrover also had an electric winch installed and the >> second battery was probably to use when wenching. >> A.L. > >Alan, Thata interesting, but I have a heater blower motor and ducting sitting >between the air cleaner and the bulkhead. Where is yor heater? or do you not >have one? > >TeriAnn > >TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that >twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start >LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 > > From root Wed Nov 3 19:07:55 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:08:39 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: Alan.Lancendorfer@eng.sun.com, twakeman@apple.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO In message <9311031743.AA26187@landrover.Eng.Sun.COM> Alan Lancendorfer writes: > TeriAnn, > Mine (Series 11A, 109) came with a second one mounted up by the > voltage regulator almost against the bulkhead, sitting parallel > to it. There was also a knife-switch installed between the two > batteries. My Landrover also had an electric winch installed and the > second battery was probably to use when wenching. > A.L. Alan, Thata interesting, but I have a heater blower motor and ducting sitting between the air cleaner and the bulkhead. Where is yor heater? or do you not have one? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Wed Nov 3 19:14:02 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 09:43:07 PST From: Alan.Lancendorfer@eng.sun.com (Alan Lancendorfer) To: twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO TeriAnn, Mine (Series 11A, 109) came with a second one mounted up by the voltage regulator almost against the bulkhead, sitting parallel to it. There was also a knife-switch installed between the two batteries. My Landrover also had an electric winch installed and the second battery was probably to use when wenching. A.L. >From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 3 09:07:03 1993 >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 08:56:59 -0800 >From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" >To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com >Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff >Content-Length: 1802 >X-Lines: 42 > >In message Dale Desprey writes: > >some stuff about stinky noisy rattling diesls removed > >> If you have starting trouble, Mike, check the grounds (earths). I have >> times when the starter turns very slowly, but both batteries are fully >> charged. Even when the grounds look ok, a bit of emery paper and >> silicone dieletric compound, and it cranks away. >> >Stuff about terrorist atacks blowing up diesels removed >> >> Dale Desprey >> Ottawa, Ontario >> >> -- >> Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >> FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > > >Dale, >Excuse me but batteries????? I thought all the Land Rovers came from the >factory with a single battery system. If the diesels came with two batteries >where did they put the second????? I've bee looking for a place to put a second >battery in my 109 pickup & have not found a suitable place. Under the left >seat? Nope, petrol tank there. under the bench behind the front seat in front >of the right rear wheel? Nope have a propane tank there. How about same place >on the left side? Nope because there is a water tank going in there. Besides >anything lower than the distributer is subject to periodic submergence. >How about the right rear tool box? Nopr filler for rear petrol tank going >through there. How abut the other side? maybe, but thats where I keep my tools >when I go on trips. I need at least one box for my do it yourself life line. > >SOOOOO where is a good plpace to place a second battery??????????????? > >TeriAnn > > >TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that >twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start >LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 > > From root Wed Nov 3 19:09:26 1993 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 08:56:59 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO In message Dale Desprey writes: some stuff about stinky noisy rattling diesls removed > If you have starting trouble, Mike, check the grounds (earths). I have > times when the starter turns very slowly, but both batteries are fully > charged. Even when the grounds look ok, a bit of emery paper and > silicone dieletric compound, and it cranks away. > Stuff about terrorist atacks blowing up diesels removed > > Dale Desprey > Ottawa, Ontario > > -- > Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada Dale, Excuse me but batteries????? I thought all the Land Rovers came from the factory with a single battery system. If the diesels came with two batteries where did they put the second????? I've bee looking for a place to put a second battery in my 109 pickup & have not found a suitable place. Under the left seat? Nope, petrol tank there. under the bench behind the front seat in front of the right rear wheel? Nope have a propane tank there. How about same place on the left side? Nope because there is a water tank going in there. Besides anything lower than the distributer is subject to periodic submergence. How about the right rear tool box? Nopr filler for rear petrol tank going through there. How abut the other side? maybe, but thats where I keep my tools when I go on trips. I need at least one box for my do it yourself life line. SOOOOO where is a good plpace to place a second battery??????????????? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Thu Nov 4 08:38:18 1993 From: ccray@lulu Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 08:33:11 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "dixon kenner" at Nov 3, 93 10:19:44 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 393 Status: RO > That is a case of 12 for *every* person that manages eh? all this talk about a *case of 12* makes me worry about inflation WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER a case was 24. I call 'em a 12-pack. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Thu Nov 4 09:07:22 1993 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:06:19 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: 12-pack Status: RO >all this talk about a *case of 12* makes me worry about inflation WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER a case was 24. I call 'em a 12-pack. this must be one of those ca-nook cases. is it 50's or bradors?? just kiddin', rdushin From root Thu Nov 4 08:56:18 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff To: ccray@lulu Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 14:58:49 GMT In-Reply-To: <9311041433.AA10755@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 4, 93 8:33 am Status: RO > > > That is a case of 12 for *every* person that manages eh? > > all this talk about a *case of 12* makes me worry about inflation > WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER a case was 24. I call 'em a 12-pack. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri > 314-882-2000 > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > When *I* was a teenager,you had to buy a barrel! Mike Rooth From root Thu Nov 4 09:41:51 1993 From: ccray@lulu Subject: bought an old engine - comments? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 09:38:31 -0600 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2019 Status: RO I just got off the phone but haven't picked it up yet. I bought an old LR 2.25 petrol engine that had been setting out in the barn for 12+ years. -- I live in Missouri -- the engine is in Iowa. I noticed it in Hemmings about 6 months ago priced at $250. I figured the shipping costs would scare off most potential buyers, so I waited. We negotiated over the phone and I will pay $180 and drive the 150 miles to pick it up. -- Apparently it came out of a 109. There was some problem and the owner said "enough, put in a chevy 6". This is what is left over from that operation. It had been setting in a corner of the barn for 12+ years. -- It is frozen, but complete. My machine shop owner says that you can work out or break out the pistons. Rust causes some pitting of the cylinder and that can often be bored out and away. The worst case is a resleeve of 4 cylinders and he charges $50 per hole. It is not clear I will ever use the block, but you never know. -- It is complete with clutch, starter, manifold, solex carb, generator, waterpump, distributor, fuel pump. That plus the heads makes it worth something to me. -- I have to travel 150 miles to pick it up. I thought I would take LULU once I get the overdrive unit installed. We will drop it onto my trailer with some frontend loader on a farm tractor. I know some of you will *brag* that you have bought complete cars for that price, but I think this is a good buy for me. Has anyone else had experiences with frozen engines *out of the car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet -- I need to do some creative thinking soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Thu Nov 4 10:24:57 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:23:46 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu Subject: Re: bought an old engine - comments? Status: RO Ray, What do you mean the wife is not on board. If your sig. other is like mine she hates the Land Rovers. Very seldom will she even sit in any of them. I can't afford an RR which she has stated she would ride and drive in. Hey,if you fiqure it out let me know. Roy H. Caldwell-Helena, Montana 58 Series I 88 (Coyote Sister) 62 Series IIA 88 (New Frame - No name yet) 69 Series IIA 88 (No name-Transition Rover) Toyota-All-Trac (Wife's) From root Thu Nov 4 11:10:58 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: bought an old engine - comments? To: ccray@lulu Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 11:17:08 CST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9311041538.AA10790@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 4, 93 9:38 am Status: RO > car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet -- > I need to do some creative thinking soon. Ray: tell her its a spare wiper motor for her RR... Paul -- ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913.599.0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** From root Thu Nov 4 11:15:16 1993 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:13:24 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff Status: RO In message <8k1gcc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> dixon kenner writes: battery stuff not included > Since you are in warm, sunny California, dump the heater and modify > the bulkhead a bit... :-) > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada But, Dixon! sputter... That Kodiak heater comes in soooo handy to take the chill off when the temperature dips down into the frigid fourties!! You should want me to have to wear a jacket in the mornings? ;*) Dixon, though I can not really conceive of the winters you go through, the coast is usually fairly humid and a cool coastal fog can cool you off much faster than dry air. I probably really do not need antifreeze where I live at the north end of Monterey bay, but the heater does make the inside of the Rover comfortable quickly. Wjhere I live normal winter highs can be from the mid fourties to the high sixties with an occasionalcouple of high seventy days maybe slipping in as well as one or two days where it might stay in the high thirties. The winter lows generally range from the low mid thirties to the mid fourties. There is oftern a week or so when it gets down to the high twenties. At the other end, it doesn't get warm enough at my house to produce tomatoes or corn. Most days are in the seventies with about as many days in the eaghties as in the high sixties. During the summer, its common to get no more than 3 or 4 full days of sunshine without the coastal fog coming in for four or five days. One of the reasons I gave up spraying final colour on my TR3 is the humidity. I have three water traps in series on my compressor hose and still can not get dry air. You have your bitter cold winters, I have moss growing on top of my Rover. Take care TeriAnn . TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Thu Nov 4 10:31:31 1993 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 08:31:07 PST From: edwardsj@ohsu.EDU (James Edwards) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 2nd battery Status: RO TeriAnn When I replaced my IIa's carb with a Weber I put a second battery in on the original air filter platform. It worked well for as long as I had it. Jim Former 88" IIa owner From root Thu Nov 4 10:28:07 1993 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:13:21 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Case of 12? Status: RO Hey Ray, I have the same memory you do. A case was 24 and 12 was two six packs. Those were the days when you could get a case for $4.50, if you could find a kind sole to buy it for you. Here in Helena the local brewery sells what they call shorts for .50 a bottle in 24 bottle cases. Good beer also. Never thought I would be so nostalgic at such a young age. Drive on, carefully. Roy From root Thu Nov 4 16:14:30 1993 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:07:24 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Froze Engine Status: RO I have never had to deal with a frozen engine but a mech friend has and this is what he suggests. If you can pull the head do so. Get some Marvel Mystery Oil and fill the cylinders with it. Let it sit and seep. This may take as long as three or four days. After the soak time try to move the crank maybe a 1/2 inch or so. If it will move then top of the cylinders with Marvel again and let it soak. Then try to move the crank another 1/2 or an inch. After repeating all of this you should be able to free the pistons without breaking any rings or anything. He reports that of the four engines he has done this on it was successful on all four. In fact he claimed that none needed to be bored, just have the cylinders cleaned up. My informant beleived that the key to success was the Marvel oil and taking your time. Note none of these engines were frozen from abuse but from neglect. My friend swears by the method. Roy From root Thu Nov 4 18:17:14 1993 From: daryl@rt1.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Frozen engine To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 9:34:16 CST In-Reply-To: <9311042207.AA27639@mtnoca.helena_noc>; from "ROY CALDWELL" at Nov 4, 93 3:07 pm Status: RO Well, I cant comment on marvels mystery oil, but we used to use diesel for such jobs. Pull the plugs out, fill the pots with diesel, keep topping them up until it moves. Yet another use for that marvelous diesel. Best of luck. Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon _-*_|\ ( 360,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed) / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?" \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under" v From root Thu Nov 4 20:18:56 1993 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 22:16:37 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Frozen Engine Status: RO I am in the process of doing this very thing with Marvels M oil. It is still soaking. I was my thought that the pistons should be remove, more or less directly , instead of turning them a few times. I choose this over simply cranking around to reduce the amount of "scoring" on the block. Does this make sense? I am letting it sit for a few months. This engine is spare, I plan to put away for a sad day when some serious problem confront me with the present. I have used up my only can of M. M. oil, which was purchased 12 hour south of here across the boarded....so the possibility of using desiel sound good. Someone once suggested "coke" but...this would seem to corrosive? I'll stick to other things. David S. From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:36 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: bought an old engine - comments? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 19:10:16 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes: > > car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet -- > > I need to do some creative thinking soon. > > Ray: tell her its a spare wiper motor for her RR... How about that he is worried that all of that power under the hood of the RR might get he hurt. Thus the "new" engine is destined to go under the RR hood, while he takes the RR engine and drops it in one of his 88's. Shows concern and thoughtfulness... :-) Better yet, TerriAnn should have the angle that Ray should use... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:15 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Case of 12? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 19:06:53 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes: > Hey Ray, I have the same memory you do. > A case was 24 and 12 was two six packs. All is not lost. Dale like Guiness and beer in quart bottles. If he tries to pass off pints of domestic, especially after starting his little smoking beast we will be sorely disappointed... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:20 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: bought an old engine - comments? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 18:54:41 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > -- It is frozen, but complete. My machine shop owner says > that you can work out or break out the pistons. Rust > causes some pitting of the cylinder and that can often > be bored out and away. The worst case is a resleeve of > 4 cylinders and he charges $50 per hole. It is not clear > I will ever use the block, but you never know. My this sounds familiar... Guess what I have at a friends' in parts. To free up mine, we had to strip the block and use much force to get the pistons out. Happily, the bores are is pretty good shape and only need to be honed. > -- It is complete with clutch, starter, manifold, solex carb, > generator, waterpump, distributor, fuel pump. That plus > the heads makes it worth something to me. At that price, it is actually a pretty good deal with all of the extra goodies. > I know some of you will *brag* that you have bought complete > cars for that price, but I think this is a good buy for me. > Has anyone else had experiences with frozen engines *out of the > car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet -- > I need to do some creative thinking soon. $25 (Cdn) for one? :-) The engine currently in the 109 was $100, but then again we have a slight surplus of these things around here. As per seized engines, if there is an archive of old messages somewhere that you can get at via ftp or telnet, about a year ago we had quite a conversation on seized engines, mine being the centre of attention. The first thing to do with it is get it home, pull the plugs, and pour diesel fuel or penetrating oil into the bores. Let is sit for a few months. You might as well strip all of the goodies off of it, clean and store them. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:12 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 18:46:16 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > > That is a case of 12 for *every* person that manages eh? > > all this talk about a *case of 12* makes me worry about inflation > WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER a case was 24. I call 'em a 12-pack. Just being polite. A case is 24 up here too, though flat also means the same thing. Dale must be worried that some of us will take him up on his offer to only offer a half case... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Nov 4 17:25:04 1993 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:21:02 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Froze Engine Status: RO My informant beleived that the key to success was the Marvel oil and taking your time. Friends have claimed that Marvel Mystery Oil is in reality just automatic transmission fluid, sort of somewhere between solvent and oil. Don't know for sure but it does look a lot like ATF. -Pete- From ccray Fri Nov 5 08:37:16 1993 Subject: re:frozen engine To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 08:37:16 -0600 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1620 Status: RO Thanks for the tips on Marvel Mystery Oil. I will let it soak for a period of time. The problem maybe you all could give insite into is how to get a big lever to turn over the engine after soaking -- my engine will be *out* of the car. -- the rednecks around here laugh and brag about pulling frozen chevy v8 engines for blocks with the back wheels sliding -- pop-ing the clutch and finally getting the engine to break free. (sounds hard on con-rods, doesn't it) but these were in the vehicle. -- I have built a pretty good engine stand with the mig welder (remember that set of dialog) and would have the engine pretty well in place. I thought I could rig up some sort bar to bolt on where the clutch bolts onto the flywheel. And put a pipe on it to get some leverage. -- Maybe instead of a constant hard pull, I could get the lever tight and use air -- I have this little air tool for cutting off mufflers, etc and it creates a real racket and hammering effect. This might create an impact-type of effect. -- And after that, oil it down and put it onto the shelf. I guess one should really consider overhauling it before dropping it into a vehicle, but that is a lot of work -- it might be still ok??? odds? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Fri Nov 5 10:05:35 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: re:frozen engine To: ccray@lulu Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:06:37 GMT In-Reply-To: <9311051437.AA10640@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 5, 93 8:37 am Status: RO Ray, If all else fails(hopefully it wont)there is a method of freeing a stuck engine that was used by a mate of mine to free off an engine built in 1912,that hadnt turned since the mid twenties. The car,in passing,is a 1912 Abbot Detroit,found in a barn in the US and imported over here.It has just comjpleted its second racing season. What he did was to take off the big end caps,and genly warm the block. He then played a CO2 fire extingiusher into the bores,which cooled and shrunk the pistons.At the same time he applied pressure via a hydraulic jack to the piston.All four came out perfectly,and no cleaning of the bores was needed.The pistons were cast iron,so a similar process applied to alloy pistons should work even better. Perhaps worth bearing in mind as a last resort? Have fun. Mike Rooth PS If it was me,I'd clean up the inside of the engine before putting it on the shelf. From root Fri Nov 5 11:28:47 1993 Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 12:27:53 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff (actually heaters)_ Status: RO If Teriann or anyone else out there wants to give up their Kodiak heater for more space in their Land Rover, let me know. I'd love to add one to my 107 Station Wagon kit. I'll even send back (someday) the Smith's heater that it currently boasts. It's guaranteed to keep either your right calf uncomfortably warm, or to keep a 6 inch semicircle on the left windscreen and a 3 inch semicircle on the right windscreen frost and fog free. Don't expect both (at least that's the way it worked in Vermont and Maine). In the winters in Maine, I taped a triple sheet of plastic sheeting to the bulkhead behind the front seat and the roof framework to try to keep some of Mr. Smith's heat output in the cabin. Most of the heat was exchanged with fresh outside air around the front doors anyway, but rear compartment passengers could detect no difference. Speaking of the roof, the framework and the ventilators which are not covered with headliner are the same sand color as the rest of the interior. The LR dealer I bought the machine from had repainted the exterior red and sort of a part yellow with the dividing line a diagonal from the base of the windshield down to somewhere near the rear corners. But the roof was the same color as the rest originally. By the way, the wheels were sand color too. (And they still are under the pale yellow repaint.) Steve <----------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <----------------------------------------------------------> From root Fri Nov 5 16:05:00 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:08:13 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu Subject: re:frozen engine Status: RO Ray, My informant seemed to indicate that he ran the engines after the thaw treatment with little or no trouble. I would say rebuild if you had the money,time or think you might need the engine soon. Otherwise I would oil it up and to the shelf like you mentioned. I would be sure to store it in such a manner that you could turn it over every once in a while. By the way I think you made a good buy. Especially with everything it has with it. Good stroke of damage, as my Cav buddies would say. Roy From root Mon Nov 8 05:50:42 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Saturday afternoon... To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 11:50:37 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Nov 7, 93 11:22 pm Status: RO Dixon, Top kingpin,Railko Bush?This has a "fibre" thrust washer type thing, that sits in the bottom of the socket (for want of a better term). I think it is supposed to be lubricated by splash from the front axle UJ but if the vehicle has FWH it wont be,not all that often anyway, and will probably disintegrate fairly rapidly.The bad news is I dont *think* you can get them as a separate item:-((And replacing the Railko Bush is a *real* pain.I have yet to devise a way of doing it without taking the swivel housing off,but I'm working on it....brother am I working on it!Of course,one way is to buy the Railko Bush,and just use the washer,but its a bit like buying a car for the ashtray and chucking the car away.Of course,chances are the top swivel pin,bush and all are knackered anyway and need doing.Its being so cheerful keeps me going:-) Have Fun Cheers Mike Rooth From root Mon Nov 8 04:13:14 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Saturday afternoon... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1993 23:22:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes: > I also discovered that the frighteningly fast top speed of the > Swamp Beast might be due to a broken vaccuum advance line. Amazing what the line will do... Going up into the back field to check the four spare Rovers we have lying about, I unhappily discovered that none had the desired item. However, Honda does make adequate vaccuum lines, and the journey home showed speeds that hit 60 mph down the highway. Quite a difference! However, get near an incline, and that magical speed quickly evaporates to the usual ho-hum speeds experienced in the past. Other fun included replacing the rear brake/side lamp assembly with one from England. Seems the wrong set was sent over (to be corrected), but I decided to put them on anyway. Having something that always works is useful when one must pass the local constabulary once and a while. Now to deal with the turn indicators that have suddenly decided to go south... North American assemblies are quite different from the UK spec. The UK spec used 3.5" lenses that are flush mounted on the galvanised trim. The NA spec was 3" lenses that fit inside a chrome assembly that extends into the body of the vehicle. NA lenses are also quite a bit darker than the UK spec. Other differences? Well, the NA assembly has two mounting holes in a pattern where thetwo are parallel. The UK spec? Three holes, the top two parallel, with the third centred on the bottom. The UK lens also has a clear portion on the bottom, possibly to illuminate a number plate. NA lenses do not have this clear portion. A question though with another LR. The parts manual shows a spacer, or thrust washer that goes under the top king pin. (Not the paper thin spacers that go on top of the housing, but inder the bottom of the pin itself. I can supply page references from the parts manual if required) However, when we dissassembled Dave Meadow's hubs today they could not be found. Subsequent dissassembly of two other sets of hubs showed that they too were missing these spacers. Have these items to be found on other peoples assemblies when they perhaps have had them apart? We hesitate to put them back together until we have some sort of answer on this. Tha Land Rover in question is a late Series IIA, approx 1968/negative earth, but with inboard headlamps. Rgds, Dixon "people can see me trying to stop now" -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sun Nov 7 01:32:13 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Saturday afternoon... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1993 21:49:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Being a rather cool (32f/0c) day, and with little adventure planned, a nice sauntering zeppelin ride to Almonte seemed to be in order. So, at a brisk 45mph, off into the boondocks I went. The days activities were mainly dealing with Dave Meadow's swb. From where my last message described the swb, today found the vehicle stripped down to a bare frame, four new outriggers welded on, a new front crossmember with horns, and a session with a sand blaster. (To be fair, the frame of an Austin Healey 100/4 was also done, but then again...) The frame is now a nice primer red, along with the sandblasted diffs. Tomorrow we shall be taking apart the front hubs to replace the swivel balls. I also discovered that the frighteningly fast top speed of the Swamp Beast might be due to a broken vaccuum advance line. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sat Nov 6 00:06:50 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Beer From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 21:22:41 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > [Grin and Snicker] > > Former Ottawa Valley Land Rover Lug Nut Award winner Dale, Dale, Dale.... How you manage to bring up such interesting things that require you to explain yourself... For those interested, the Lug Nut Award is an OVLR tradition. It is an annual award given out at our annual Christmas Party. It is an award whereby candidates are generally snitched upon by their friends, as the potential recipient usually tries to forget the events surrounding his candidacy, and certainly doesn't volunteer the information. Simply put, the Lug Nut Award goes to the OVLR member who has not only done something stupid, but has done something so unbelievably stupid to leave all those about rolling in the mud laughing. Last years proud recipient was Fred Joyce, who while rounding the might Oak managed to be involved in the first accident in OVLR off-road history. Yes, he rammed a 109 pick-up in the rear, in the middle of a forest... His name appears with Dale's, though Fred's appalation is "Rear Rammer". So Dale tell us about what you did to beat out the competition and win our coveted award... Rgds, Dixon PS, It better be good, because I know all about it... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Nov 5 19:23:20 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Beer From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 10:17:14 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dixon was mentioning about the little bet I have going re. hand cranking the diesel and making it a Ottawa Valley Land Rover club event. To clarify, the bet was that "none of my friends" could crank start it. [Grin and Snicker] Former Ottawa Valley Land Rover Lug Nut Award winner Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Nov 5 19:23:54 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Answers From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 09:39:52 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The story of the first date, a pond and wet ignition. I was fortunate enough to meet a very attractive young woman about a year ago, who expressed an interest in what I did for fun. I told her I liked long drives in the country and invited her to join me. I show up in the series III (since sold). I'd say she took it quite well. At first I took her through a fairly easy course (first impressions you know) near Almonte. Afterwards I asked her if she would like to try another course. To my suprise, she said maybe. We arrived, and all that we could see was endless water where the road should be. I bravely put the rover into gear and venture forth. As soon as we hit water, We sink. H20 is spewing from between the bonnet and fenders. She lifts her feet. The engine starts to sputter. The cab is amazingly quite. Fortunatly we reach some higher ground. She lowers her feet. For the first time I notice her running shoes and muse that they won't handle the walk out very well. I suggest that we turn around and try to drive out. She wholeheartedly agrees. I turn around, pumping the gas to prevent it from stalling. I ask "ready?". She only gives a weak nod. I put it into second and concentrate on the perfect bow wave. We descend once again into water. Half way through, the engine isn't coping so well. All at once, the engine stops. It feels like eternity. I look over at my date, to see her, feet raised, slowly positioning her hands over her mouth, her eyes a as big as dinner plates. BANG! One cylinder fires, (must have been detionation or something because it seemed to take forever to decide to fire.) I pump the gas, and we get out. Once back on pavement, the engine dies every time we come to a stop. I take her for a drink to settle her nerves. Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Mon Nov 8 10:56:24 1993 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 11:55:48 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Merseyside Overdrive Status: RO My overdrive order from Merseyside came by FedEx this morning. Man, it's beautiful. Clean, bright metal. Smooth running bearings and tight seals. And I can watch it work! I think I'll just leave it in the living room as a toy/conversation piece for awhile. :-) Merseyside sent my order via FedEx which also took care of the customs duty but I'm certain I paid for this convenience with (usurious) interest. But I am a happy customer. monty From root Mon Nov 8 11:45:39 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Weekend Adventure From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:58:37 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Was up in Almonte on Sunday, discovered that the various water spots were covered with a thin layer of ICE! It's too early for that, what happened to Indian Summer. We (I was with a friend in a Jimmy), were following a path, come swamp, and as I was breaking through the ice, my friend began to frantically beep his horn. It turned out that as the Land Rover sank, and the Ice came over the bumper, that I had bent a wing. The Ice was thicker than I had thought, reaching a thickness of 1/2 an inch. I decided to back up, and drive in reverse to another section. Crack, stop, crack, stop. Going nowhere fast, I drove to shore, to check the damage. Pushed in the side of the wing with my hand, as good as new. Chipped a bit of paint though. Moral - Land Rovers don't make good Ice Breakers. Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Tue Nov 9 08:45:30 1993 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 14:44:24 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: spacer Status: RO dixon wrote: >A question though with another LR. The parts manual shows a spacer, or thrust washer that goes under the top king pin. (Not the paper thin spacers that go on top of the housing, but inder the bottom of the pin itself. I can supply page references from the parts manual if required) However, when we dissassembled Dave Meadow's hubs today they could not be found. Subsequent dissassembly of two other sets of hubs showed that they too were missing these spacers. Have these items to be found on other peoples assemblies when they perhaps have had them apart? I had Nigel's swivel pin housings off last year, but they were the "pendant type" (with the steering lever attached to the top and not the bottom of the housing). they were also the "spring and cone" type. I suspect you have the later version (lever on bottom) with railco bushes......so I cannot be of any help here. rd From root Tue Nov 9 03:33:53 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Balls...and Bushes To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 9:30:39 GMT Status: RO Dixon,youre a bloody genius!I have my LH swivel bearings to "adjust" and was dreading the job.Now I can go and get the thrust washer and reshim.Should be OK for a twelvemonth after that.Was the part number a RN number,or a Land Rover Parts number?It really *would* be a laugh if I had to send to the States for a bit for a vehicle made over here. As for replacing the Railko without removing the swivel housing,I had got as far as the thought that a "bridge" shaped piece of steel,with a hole drilled in the top,and feet filed to more or less the curve of the housing,could be used.The idea was to enlarge the lubrication hole in the bottom of the bush,(the old one),and draw it out with a bolt and nut.The new one will go in with a hammer and a suitable bit of wood anyway.The last one did.That way I wouldnt have to take the half shaft out either.(Mental picture of man knocking hole in garage wall to pass long half shaft through.I've known it happen!) We have shorter afernoons than you.......:-) Cheers Mike From root Mon Nov 8 23:02:57 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Saturday afternoon... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 18:50:35 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > Top kingpin,Railko Bush?This has a "fibre" thrust washer type thing, > that sits in the bottom of the socket (for want of a better term). Fibre? Hmmm, the parts manual didn't describe what it was made of. Being fibre I can see how the thing would either disintegrate of be difficult to find among the mess. > and will probably disintegrate fairly rapidly.The bad news is I dont > *think* you can get them as a separate item:-( They are available seperately. Part No. 528702, US$1.55 from RN. > (And replacing the Railko Bush is a *real* pain. I have yet to devise a > way of doing it without taking the swivel housing off, but I'm working > on it....brother am I working on it! Well, the swivel ball has been replaced, so putting in a new bush was not that difficult. Looking at the assembly, I don't see any way of removing the old one with removing the swivel ball, and even then considering the pressure required to put it in place will make it messy to remove. Besides, there are not that many bolts you will have to remove. An afternoon will get the job done... :-) Thx, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From ccray Tue Nov 9 16:36:42 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Weekend Adventure From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 10:46:37 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > Was up in Almonte on Sunday, discovered that the various water spots were > covered with a thin layer of ICE! It's too early for that, what happened > to Indian Summer. You didn't stop by George's. We were there playing about. I though that you had changed the under-riders over to over-riders for the ice breaking efforts. Time to get George to weld up the traditional ice-breaker attachment and put it on the front of your diesel. Now, since you have demonstrated your keenness for partaking in semi-winter activities, I do have a suggestion for you. I have this air pump off of a early seventies Mini-1000. While it produced disasterous performance on an 'A' block, it was good at moving air. I propose that we put this air pump onto your engine, and put the outlet hoses out the front of your 88. This will result in a constant stream of air being ejected out the front. The benefit is that when you are in ice-breaker mode the injected air will be accumulating under the ice. Such an accumulation will weaken the ice, making it easier to break through. Future enhancements include a telescoping pipe to allow you to inject air further ahead for when you want to pre-load the ice for more racing-like speeds. Hey, if it works on our Ice-Breakers up north, it will work on your Land Rover... Land Rovers do make good ice-breakers. You have just avoided the sound advice of your peers... So when can we expect the 88 to arrive for its latest modifications? Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From ccray Tue Nov 9 16:37:13 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Balls...and Bushes From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 10:36:14 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > Dixon,youre a bloody genius!I have my LH swivel bearings to "adjust" > and was dreading the job.Now I can go and get the thrust washer and > reshim.Should be OK for a twelvemonth after that.Was the part number > a RN number,or a Land Rover Parts number? The quoted part number is a Land Rover part number. You should be able to do the entire job, less the swivel ball removal using axle stands. Pullint the kinpin out is easy, but take care not to damage the shims too much. Careful use of a bloody great hammer and chisel was required to get the king pin out of the other donor vehicles, but once out, if the axle is suppoered so there is no weight in the wheel (but wheel supported in a stationary position), the king pin will go back in without too much problem. > As for replacing the Railko without removing the swivel housing, Interesting approach, but you have to drive the bush upwards which is the biggest problem of the whole operation. Considering the work that would have to go into such a venture, taking care not to damade the swivel housing, it really isn't worth the extra effort. It comes down to being faster to take the whole thing apart. > (Mental picture of man knocking hole in garage wall to pass > long half shaft through.I've known it happen!) :-) So have I! > We have shorter afernoons than you.......:-) Not by the sun... Like the pubs close earlier than over here, so you have to get started sooner, or have less time available for reflecting on the days Rover-work? Get a small fridge and fill with beer. We generally have a pair of home-brewed kegs sitting in the fll sized fridge, with a few pints of the domestic garbage as back-up. Makes work go much more smoothly... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Nov 9 18:44:56 1993 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 19:47:35 EST From: MAC To: land-rover-owner-out@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Importing Land Rovers Status: RO Hi. I've been lurking for a while and do not own a Land Rover yet. I have a question for you gents north of the border, or for anybody who has been through this before. Is it possible to buy a LR in Canada and bring it back into the US? If so, what are the various hoop jumping/taxes/fees involved to do it? The reason I am asking is that I am interested in getting one of the 88" Military Lightweights and I have seen a few from Canada for sale on the Rovers North list. Are these available in the states? Does anybody on this list have one? Thanks for any/all information, Mike "MAC" Bur bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov From twakeman@apple.com Wed Nov 10 10:55:39 1993 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 08:44:20 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov, land-rover-owner-out@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers Status: RO In message <9311100047.AA04865@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov> MAC writes: > > > Hi. I've been lurking for a while and do not own a Land Rover yet. > I have a question for you gents north of the border, or for anybody > who has been through this before. Is it possible to buy a LR in > Canada and bring it back into the US? If so, what are the various > hoop jumping/taxes/fees involved to do it? The reason I am asking > is that I am interested in getting one of the 88" Military Lightweights > and I have seen a few from Canada for sale on the Rovers North list. > Are these available in the states? Does anybody on this list have one? > > Thanks for any/all information, > Mike "MAC" Bur > bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov I have seen one lightweight in the US. I believe it lives in Washington and is registered as an 1965 88. There is also an early ninties 110 that came from Canada to Alaska. Got registered as a 60 something 109, then moved down to the Pacific Northwest and reregistered per the Alaskan registration. I do not recommend doing this of course. But it is how a small number of cars get in. Another is if a non-US citizen comes into the country on a work visa and brings their own car with them. The car gets a US registration for the time it is in the US. The assumption is that the owner will take it back to his or her native country when they leave. Some instead get sold. Thats how a couple of TR5s that I know of got into the US. By all means, check legal ways to do this. TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 10 14:49:12 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: One day out by a barn... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 14:17:49 -0600 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3599 Status: RO August 3, 1990 -- I remember the day well. I had driven about 150 miles to checkout a used landrover 88 that was priced at $875. "Very restorable" said the seller. I had let the want-ad age for about 4 months before I called him back for the second time. Yes, it was still for sale. I had been haggling with my wife Janice for about a year attempting to convince her that a philosophy of owning three cars -- with two on the road at any given time was a good one for us to adopt. I had read sales literature distributed from the parts houses and memorized their list of cars for purchase. Hemmings issues were also checked out. It was not clear that I could afford (at least in my wife's mind) a car in the $2000 to $3000 range and that maybe this $875 vehicle was my opportunity! It was setting out behind a barn -- just like I had expected. No top, hadn't run for "..3 or 4 years..". Even though it had been rained on a couple of hundred times, the only thing that looked a little worrysome was the instruments. Of course, there was some a little rust in the footwell area, but not too bad. And the seat rails were completely rusted out, but I thought I could easily replace them. The rear-end had been replaced with one "..from an international scout.." he thought -- I figured I would find another if it were mine. Bronze green -- it had been resprayed once and poorly at that. We couldn't pull-start it 'cause it had two flat tires. We put a battery into it and it fired acouple of times before the battery went dead. That was enough for me. He stated that a couple of people had driven out from St.Louis and were going to return to buy it -- was he totally truthful? We began the ritual over price. I offered $500 and to my supprise he accepted it without even a counter offer. (did I offer too much?). But I had to call my wife first to get her final permission. I still remember her crying at the other end of the phone. She said NO. I think the seller questioned my man-hood -- having to get permission from "the wife" but I had been married long enough to try to avoid problems. I spent the next hour or so checking for rust in all the right places, going to the seller's house to find the title.... He surely didn't feel confident about this sale going thru, so he stated "...I need $450 to pay the rent -- I will let it go for that..." I called home one more time. Tough conversation with some more crying. But this time she said "...its up to you, do what you think is right..." and I bought it! I had brought the towbar that I had just purchased for $25. I drove into town and borrowed an airtank and filled up the tires. The tow back was uneventful -- I still remember looking in the rear-view mirror and seeing the top of the bonnet and windscreen and feeling proud to be a Land Rover owner. I have begun the restoration project, but other things like new bathrooms, painting the house, plumbing problems and living gets in the way. I am close to putting things back together again, but vacation homes and more bathrooms are close-in also. Perhaps a November new year's resolution is in order. Anyway, this is the story about Rover#1 -- will fill in some restoration details later. (Disk to tape backup is done). ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 10 18:29:23 1993 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 16:25:05 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: permission Status: RO In message <9311102251.AA73478@y1.sdsc.edu> dushin russell writes: > Assundrys deleted She is not, > however, on this net, and there is only one woman I know of who is (and > I hope this does not get me into trouble once again, but-) perhaps we can > enlist TeriAnn as "regional counselor", if she would be so kind. Having > experienced the persuasive powers of women before, I can forsee that this > would be a VALUED contribution in promoting the art of rover restorations. > (Just think of all the rotting rovers you can singlehandedly save!) > > Whatta ya say? > > rdushin (don't hit me) Geeez, dushin, I because I got upset once doesn't mean I do it at every oppertunity. I do not think I would be very good at being a counselor for couples. Partly because I am not now in a relationship and have been away from a serious one for a number of years now. I have some very definite ideas about relationships. Such things as them being equal partnerships where as much importance and time be spend with each person nuturing their own individual needs and goals as the pair's needs and goals. Each person should have their own time and money as well as pair's time and money. That if each person is independent, confident and happy within themselves, they each bring a strength into a relationship. I believe a relationship where one party is dependent upon the other for self worth or acceptance as being a weak one. Sorry but when I see a relationship where one person is unable to think about her/himself without first asking permission, or is expected to do what the other wants regardless, my advice is usually cull the offending spouse. How can someone be truely happy if the only thing they can do is what the other one wants them to do, or like throwing a bone to a dog, graciously allows them to do. Thats a form of slavery in my book. My ideals may be a bit too strange for most people to handle. See why I would not make a good partners counselor? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 08:44:10 1993 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:41:14 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: re: balls and bushes Status: RO Mike writes: >As for replacing the Railko without removing the swivel housing,I had got as far as the thought that a "bridge" shaped piece of steel,with a hole drilled in the top,and feet filed to more or less the curve of the housing,could be used.The idea was to enlarge the lubrication hole in the bottom of the bush,(the old one),and draw it out with a bolt and nut.The new one will go in with a hammer and a suitable bit of wood anyway.The last one did. This idea intrigues me. Ya mean a Railco bush actually fits within the hole (bottom, I guess, in your case) on the housing (that the steering lever and bushes fit into)? I am 90% certain that my old cones will not (the springs come out easy, but the cone diameter is slightly larget than that of the hole in the housing (top, in my case). Perhaps I should consider this Railco bush idea (once again)....... rdushin From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 10 17:00:39 1993 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 22:51:37 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: permission Status: RO Ray writes: >But I had to call my wife first to get her final permission. I still remember her crying at the other end of the phone. She said NO. but also writes: - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) I am not so sure I read this correctly. SHE's got the range rover, and you've got the authentic (but less comfortable) land rovers, right? How much did you spend to get her set-up and happy in that luxury 4WD? hmm. but then again, we see your time is precious: >other things like new bathrooms, painting the house, plumbing problems and living gets in the way. I am close to putting things back together again, but vacation homes and more bathrooms are close-in also. and that you do not want to make waves: >I had been married long enough to try to avoid problems. so we can understand your concern(s). Surely, there are others out there with a similar affliciton. I for one, have been spared of this ordeal-my sig other is a budding rover enthusiast who frequently helps out with spare hands and sound advice. She is not, however, on this net, and there is only one woman I know of who is (and I hope this does not get me into trouble once again, but-) perhaps we can enlist TeriAnn as "regional counselor", if she would be so kind. Having experienced the persuasive powers of women before, I can forsee that this would be a VALUED contribution in promoting the art of rover restorations. (Just think of all the rotting rovers you can singlehandedly save!) Whatta ya say? rdushin (don't hit me) From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 08:59:03 1993 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:55:43 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: right on! Status: RO TerriAnn writes: >Geeez, dushin, I because I got upset once doesn't mean I do it at every oppertunity. I am just a little hypersensitive, I guess, and didn't want to offend you once again. >I do not think I would be very good at being a counselor for couples. Partly because I am not now in a relationship and have been away from a serious one for a number of years now. I have some very definite ideas about relationships. Such things as them being equal partnerships where as much importance and time be spend with each person nuturing their own individual needs and goals as the pair's needs and goals. This was begining to sound like a personal ad-but I see we are all excluded :(.OCOCOC :( >My ideals may be a bit too strange for most people to handle. They sound good to me! Cheers, rdushin From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 09:08:46 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: permission To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:03:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9311102251.AA73478@y1.sdsc.edu> from "dushin russell" at Nov 10, 93 10:51:37 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2155 Status: RO > Surely, there are others out there with a similar affliciton. I for one, > have been spared of this ordeal-my sig other is a budding rover enthusiast My note of yesterday "..out behind a barn.." was written about an experience that happened about 3 years ago. Much has happened since then. Probably the best is that I have had for the last year a running SIIa 88 that I drive every day. That vehicle is viewed by her as transportation and not a hole that time and money is thrown towards. She will ride in it especially in the winter since the Kodiak throws all kinds of hot air right at her feet. And summer rides with the door-tops off were also enjoyable. Another good thing that happened is that I convinced her that attending a Land Rover adventure weekend in Wichita last spring would be fun. And it was. We met several couples that were normal people and yet rover-freaks also. She is looking forward to attending again next year and I hope also to get to one in the Colorado mountains. (anybody know when/where on this -- I haven't gotten my AL WORKHORSE for quite a while now). If I were making $300/month payments for my vehicle like everybody else, that would be acceptable. But spending $300 this month for parts is viewed as throwing money away. I have this vision of having enough Land Rovers around to ensure that I have transportation (one on the road and one in the garage -- the old Jag line) but I am not there yet. A restoration vehicle is certainly one in the garage but not in the sense that I mean. The car in the garage is there for repairs to get it back on the road. And a parts car is not one in the garage in the sense I mean (besides, it is in boxes in the basement). If I am committed to Land Rovers for the next 30 years, I feel more secure if I have a certain number of parts in my possession and I can ride out times when parts are hard to come by (solex rebuild kits -- they will be available someday again). Anyway, just wanted to clarify things. My problems today is when my priorities and her priorities do not match. If I am working on my LR, then I am not remodeling our bathroom, etc, etc. From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 09:19:27 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Permission? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:16:18 GMT Status: RO For what it is worth,I dont think your definitions sound at all odd, Teriann.The money aspect apart,sounds like the basis for a lasting marriage,actually.My qualifications for so saying? 26 years of same. It just strikes a jarring note to see it itemised in print,so to speak. You have,however,left out perhaps the most important requisite,namely a sense of humour,preferably incuding the ability to laugh at oneself. Having said that,though,it never ceases to amaze me how people's domestic arrangements differ,and yet the "relationship" seems to work. So I/ve stopped judging them,after all its their affair (no pun intended) and not mine. This si the way my Land Rover acquired me. Once upon a time I had a Citroen.Our Transatlatic readership will,I think not be familiar with these esoteric machines,but this one was a flat four aircooled hatchback,with hydropneumatic self levelling suspension,height adjustable(for deep puddles),*power* brakes,and I *mean* power,not servo assisted by vacuum,they were the best brakes I've ever known,all in all a collection of the best ideas ever,appallingly put together.A bit like the Avro Shackleton which is known a fifty thousand rivets flying in loose formation.Get the picture?When it got "camshaft disease" there was no way I could strip that engine myself,without a complete kit of special Gallic tools to do it with.So I had it done.500quid that dog of a car cost me. So,it had to go.But what to get instead?Well,I gotta horse.Therefore all my cars were getting filthy.I also wanted something with no b.... awful electronics in it.And a good old English pushrod OHV engine like the ones I was brought up on. When I broached the subject to my wife the reply was "I'm not riding around in one of those".Here comes the crafty bit.I said NOTHING.Not a word.Not a single squeak.Just went to the local library and got the Haynes manual out. Two weeks later she said that she had seen two Land Rovers advertised in last weeks local paper.Sneaky.She'd binned the paper.Shit.One round all. When we eventually discussed the subject and I reminded her of the remark she said that since it was me who did the maintaining,and most of the driving,I might as well have somethig I liked.Since we did(and still do) little long distance stuff,it was deemed cheaper to hire a car for that than spend a fortune on a bit of modern tin,that I would heartily loathe, and which would dpreciate faster than the water ran out of Liza's bucket. Having sorted *that* out,AND the fact I couldnt afford to run a petrol version,the only thing left to do was find one.You know,the easy bit. WHO SAID IT WAS EASY!three months later I was still looking.Up until then,I was reliably informed that there were plenty for sale each week in one of the local papers(the one we didnt get).After I'd decided the entire county conspired to hang onto what they'd got.Miserable sods. Eventually an advert *did* turn up,and off we went to have a shufti at it.Fine.Chassis OK,sounded all right,diesel engine,what I wanted,price fair,private sale,so I said yes. Driving it home,I've never been so frightened in my life.Hard shoulder to white line without moving the steering wheel!And it let wet in! What *have* I done?Took me a week to figure out that what I was driving was as near as makes no odds the same sort of thing as the first car I ever had,which was a 1931 J2 type MG (sigh),and that was the way it wanted to be driven.Remember four wheel drifts? Of course I should have known that anyone (like the young lad that sold it me) who says"of course I'm an engineer",should be treated with deep suspicion.All tool kit and no brains.I cured the rain coming in(oh,all right,SOME of the rain coming in),by putting in the roof bolts he'd deemed surplus to requirements,when he'd put the top back on after the summer.In fact,I went all over the thing putting in bolts he'd left out. And rewiring his rewiring.Only mine worked,his worked sometimes. And replacing the head gasket.He'd done it,but only torqued it down once. Repaired the dynamo.Put a new starter solenoid in after his cremated itself one morning. When,six months later it dropped a valve,just before Christmas,I had to buy a scrofulous brown Ford to tide me over until the old girl was on the road again.My wife continuously remarked that she had seen a Land Rover whilst out walking the dogs,and felt like waving them down just to say "we've got one of these,honest,but its poorly at present".A convert! When the time came to take the newly repaired Rover out for the first time she said"ah,*that* feels better,I feel as though I've been away,and just come back home".I couldnt have put it better myself.And that was seven years ago.The longest I've ever kept a car,and I've still got no intentions of parting with it.The most fun on four wheels. Well,Confucious says,"Rules say people got to grow old,Rules dont say people got to grow up". Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 09:54:19 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: re: balls and bushes To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:44:44 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9311111441.AA48395@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Nov 11, 93 2:41 pm Status: RO Dushin, No,the Railko Bush goes in the top.There is a Timken taper roller in the bottom.I beleive there is a conversion available.Either that or the older types will accept the Railko as a direct replacement. I'll check the manual if you like.The Railko is a "force" fit,hence the hammer to put it in.But by my reckoning the old one could be withdrawn by means of a bolt,taking care,as Dixon pointed out,not to damage the swivel housing.However they *are* fairly tough. Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Nov 11 09:35:09 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: permission To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:37:34 GMT In-Reply-To: <9311111503.AA13475@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 11, 93 9:03 am Status: RO Sounds normal to me..... Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 11:13:14 1993 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:10:20 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Permission? Status: RO In message <9311111516.AA07425@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes: > For what it is worth,I dont think your definitions sound at all odd, > Teriann.The money aspect apart,sounds like the basis for a lasting > marriage,actually.My qualifications for so saying? 26 years of same. > It just strikes a jarring note to see it itemised in print,so to speak. > You have,however,left out perhaps the most important requisite,namely > a sense of humour,preferably incuding the ability to laugh at oneself. I'm OK in the humor dept, but havn't had near the experience with the laughter stuff as I have had with the emotional pain stuff. But I think your right. Laughter is a VERY important part. > Having said that,though,it never ceases to amaze me how people's > domestic arrangements differ,and yet the "relationship" seems to work. The couple I rent my house from is a couple that amazes me. They are the most unhappy couple I know of. Each partner plays vicious games with the other and is constantly complaining about each other. They have been married 21 years, and have been like that for the 12 years that I have rented from them. They are very unhappy, but they both must be getting something out of it they need. > So I/ve stopped judging them,after all its their affair (no pun intended) > and not mine. Mike, I agree. I do not feel qualified to judge other's relationships ether. Thats why I said I would not make a good partners counceler. Though, I do admit, I get envious when I see or read about repationships that work long term. I've never had a long term positive experience with them. Thats why I put my efforts into things. Things are safe. Nice nastolgic stuff deleted > Mike Rooth TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 12:35:16 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: My big mouth From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:13:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dixon asked me to post the reason that I had received the prestigious Ottawa, Valley Land Rover Lug Nut Award. I had hoped that if I "forgot" to reply, that the newsgroup would also forget. Dixon didn't, and suggested that I respond. First some background. The Lug Nut award is given to the club member who not only manages to do something mindboggeling stupid, but does it in front of other members, so that there is evidence. The Charge. The defedant was seen, in front of many witnesses, driving a Land Rover topless, (the Land Rover, not the driver), during the monsoon season, on a long trip from Ottawa to Rovers North. (That should read defendant). Other club members informed me, once we arrived, that "Oh it rains every year we come down.". The prosecution maintains that in fact it rained buckets for the whole trip. The evidence - many amazed drivers and kids in the back seat of K cars, pointing and laughing. The defense. I love to drive without a roof. Although some people would find it hard to believe, I was quite comfortable, having good clothing. The verdict, guilty.(was there ever any doubt) The Sentence, To have it known, for all eternity, on a small plaque on a wooden Land Rover, that two years ago, Dale Desprey was "The no top nitwit" Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Fri Nov 12 10:37:26 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sappy Stuff In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Nov 93 18:01:21 EST." Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 11:29:56 -0500 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Ok, land rover owners, if you want to deal with the sappy stuff then bring this conversation over to soc.singles or soc.motos or whatever. The list has had (and hopefully will continue have) a respectable signal to noise ratio... -- Bill From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Fri Nov 12 04:35:16 1993 From: M.B.Hill@info.curtin.edu.au Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 18:04:00 +0900 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sappy Stuff Status: RO >Just an observation, From experience, while we are talking about >relationships. > >Why do some women try so desperately try to change us men, moulding us >into what they consider to be perfect men, (I can see it coming, a Well I don't know about that, but how this: Women marry men hoping that they will change but they don't Men marry women hoping that they won't change but they do... -Mart ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Hill Internet: M.B.Hill@info.curtin.edu.au Mac User Consultant QuickMail: Martin_Hill@3517415 Computing Centre AppleLink: AUST0176 Curtin University GPO Box U 1987, Ph:(09)351-3200 Perth 6001, Fax:(09)351-2673 Western Austalia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Fri Nov 12 00:16:22 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sappy Stuff From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 18:01:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just an observation, From experience, while we are talking about relationships. Why do some women try so desperately try to change us men, moulding us into what they consider to be perfect men, (I can see it coming, a contradiction in terms) to show off to their friends, then decide once they think they have succeeded, decide that their men have "lost something", and go for other men by saying "Why can't you be more like them" , when you both know that you were. Fortunately, now I am too old to change, at least thats the excuse. Dale desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 17:02:17 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: My big mouth From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:19:19 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > The Charge. The defedant was seen, in front of many witnesses, driving a > Land Rover topless, (the Land Rover, not the driver), during the monsoon > season, on a long trip from Ottawa to Rovers North. (That should read > defendant). Other club members informed me, once we arrived, that "Oh it > rains every year we come down.". The prosecution maintains that in fact > it rained buckets for the whole trip. Dale, Dale, Dale.... The buckets of rain have made your memories turn towards the mud that you so like to play in. Methinks that you are leaving out a little information. What you write above is correct, but somehow the editor, or some system through which this message was transmitted, managed to lose the conclusion... For those interested, Dale did indeed drive down in a monsoon. What made his adventure even more spectacular, and secured our top award with a death hold grip, was the following: At Rover's North they held an auction. One of the items up for bidding was a canvas top. Dale declined to purchase this top, despite constant torrential rains, at an advantageuos price, thus condeming himself to drive back up to Ottawa in the rain and capture our most covetted prize. If you had purchased the top, you would have been considered a visionary, risking certain soaking, the pity of fellow bidders, to obtain the item you most dearly required. That you compounded your desire to get wet, requiring your normal driving habit of goggles and industrial ear defenders.... > The Sentence, To have it known, for all eternity, on a small plaque on a > wooden Land Rover, that two years ago, Dale Desprey was "The no top > nitwit" I think that Jason, or Jerry is in first place thus far for this years award. He used his Land Rover to assist in the construction of a two story log wall for his garage. The wall was being secured to the Land Rover while all of the logs went up. However, when all was said and done, and it came time to move his Land Rover away, he managed to confuse forward and reverse gears and drove into the wall, bringing it back down... Of course there were OVLR witnesses to the event... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 15 18:25:40 1993 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 20:18:53 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@stratus.com Cc: x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca Subject: Off Road Report? Status: RO Hello: While thumbing through a magazine in the line up at the super market I discover an "off road test report" for Land Rovers, produced by "Four Wheeler" magazine, or rather reference to such a thing. Does anybody know what this is? They want $3.00 for it and list available reports for (as they descibe them) 62 LR 67 LR 72 RR 73 LR 88 87 RR 87 RR 89 RR 89 RR 91 RR Hunter 92 RR Country 92 LR Defender 93 RR LWB Has anybody read these reports? I thought That I would ask before sending away. If anybody is interested I can post their address and ordering procedure. I suspect they may be biased in favor of Chev's, Dodge etc. Anyhow..for now David S. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 15 09:31:17 1993 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 15:25:21 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: afternoon Status: RO Mike writes: >Took me all afternoon.Is it just me or does everyone have this trouble? I *finally* found the time to tacke Nigel's frozen water pump studs this weekend. Managed to get the headlamp/radiator assembly, front pulley nut and pulley off, and all the fixings removed by noonish-and I spent the remaining daylight hours (4.5 of them in these parts) just trying to get the damned timing chain cover off! Some things just cannot be predicted.... (btw, most of the morning hours were spent trying to find a 1 5/8" socket for the pulley.....and virtually ALL of the fixings on the timing chain cover were FINGER tight! Must have been the gasket sealant that was holding it all together after all these years.) Sunday morning saw a simple 1/2 hour of heating, tapping, liquid wrench, and everyone's (least) favorite tool, vise grips; this was all that was needed to remove those stubborn studs (that have kept poor Nige off the road since mid september (had I only known it would have been so easy.........). any day now my new bits will arrive...... rd/nigel (he is waking up!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 15 03:51:59 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Exhaust...ing To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 9:50:05 GMT Status: RO Friday,the exhaust on the Rover started to blow,by Saturday morning I was blaring around on an open pipe.So Saturday afernoon,I drove the ten miles or so to the nearest source of a new,(reasonably priced) front pipe.Got any spare ear defenders Dale?You *can* get exhaust bits from most national exhaust fitters over here,but you end up paying over twice the price.Anyway,I wanted a new battery as well.Same applies. The front pipe on the diesel is the easiest exhaust component to fit of any I have ever come across,three bolts at the back(sticky,but not too bad),and four nuts on the manifold.Pull it of the manifold,and the whole thing drops on the floor.Replacement,as they say,is the reverse of the foregoing,and in this case,it is....usually.Having fitted the thing,and put away the tools I had a quick walk round,only to notice I could no longer see the tailpipe,which,on closer inspection was now coyly tucked away behind the bodywork.It was,in the end,necessary to undo *all* the fixings to enable me to get the tailpipe clear of the body,and to get the silencer from rattling on the chassis.I know what the trouble is,but it needs oxy-acet on the front pipe to solve it.*And* the silencer has started to rattle on the frame again.Took me all afternoon.Is it just me or does everyone have this trouble?Oh,and now I have no brakes.Thank god for diesel engine braking,certainly teaches the correct use of the gearbox on overrun.The battery works OK though........ Cheers Mike Rooth From ccray Wed Nov 17 08:36:02 1993 Subject: something to make a FLAP over To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 08:36:02 -0600 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 905 Status: RO I just traded 2-15inch rims for an old worn-out torn-apart transmission. He threw in a pair of OE Land Rover MUDFLAPS. He ordered them new, but they wouldn't bolt onto his machine cause of the muffler routing. My muffler routing is stock, so I should not have any problems. I had always wanted to eventually get a pair anyway. What is the group's opinion of these -- are mudflaps good? Do they work ok and look ok with 15 inch tires. These are meant to mount on the back, but I noticed some of the RR's have mudflaps on both the front and the back? comments? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 17 10:19:28 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Mudflaps To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 16:11:49 GMT Status: RO Ray asks about mudflaps.IMO no Land Rover should be without them. I'll go further,and state that I think rear mudflaps should be compulsory on *all* vehicles,out of respect for the poor devil following in your rooster tail in the wet.Of course the European Common Market is concentrating on making all sorts of unecessary crap mandatory,that *doesnt* help anyone,but mudflaps theyve never heard of.Off road,they should be tied up out of the way,or youll lose 'em.As for front ones,they *do* stop the crud crudding up underneath the vehicle,but I've only ever seen two Land Rover's so equipped.Mine isnt,but the first thing I bought after the Rover were a pair of rear ones,they are still there (just) after seven years.Tip.I fastened mine onto the vehicle with stainless steel 2BA bolts,after drilling and tapping the rear cross member for them. Several years later,when one had to come off for some welding to be done(it was in the way) it came off easily,and whats more went back on again easily.Just thought you may like to know:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com Wed Nov 17 09:47:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 08:50:14 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Mudflaps Status: RO Ray, The 69 has muds on the rear. They are the stock muds and they do work. The rear window and door remain fairly clean. They are worth the effort to put on. Plus the Rover logo looks cool. I have never had fronts but feel they would help keep the area around the door clean and help reduce mud build-up on the frame. Plus they look cool with any size wheel. Roy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 04:45:49 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Braking up is hard..... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:45:42 GMT Status: RO Grrrrr.So,I *still* have no brakes.Although its not as bad as I thought at first,ie,it isnt the master cylinder,but the RH front wheel cylinder that has air in it.Bleed it,youll say.Yes,well,I *tried* that,didnt I,and what happened?The bleed nipple come orf in me 'and sarge,honest.Fine,great,wonderful,spent all morning freezing me assets off,and that happens.So,go and buy a new cylinder. Now,being sharp,and *really* with it,I happened to notice that the replacement cylinder had no nuts attached to the attachment studs. Oy! ses I,wot about some nuts?Use the ones you take off he says. Guess what?The bloody things wont *come* off.So having bought some suitable nuts (god,the expense,50pence for ten),I am praying for no rain and a sharp cold chisel this weekend. One *would* have thought that nuts would have been included at a miserable 10pence per cylinder. One interesting fact that came out of the purchase was that Genuine Girling wheel cylinders are 20.50 plus the VAT(of course),whilst "pattern" units are 10.50(pounds,that is) +VAT each.Of course the Gen stuff *may* include nuts,but it is still one hell of a differential. It seems to me its little use the LRO magazine wittering on about always using genuine parts,when said parts are TWICE the price of a British made pattern spare indistinguishable from the original.And,in all probability made by the same firm.The name Girling isnt worth paying double for,in fact it isnt worth paying *anything* extra for,in my view. Same goes for brake shoes,although there was only five quid difference in that case.Again,the only difference was that Gen Girling used to have new 1/4 Whit locking screws and lock tabs included.10p extra? Who needs them? I've got the proverbial boxfull. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 17 18:44:35 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Exhaust...ing From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 10:48:58 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > Friday,the exhaust on the Rover started to blow,by Saturday morning > I was blaring around on an open pipe.So Saturday afernoon,I drove > the ten miles or so to the nearest source of a new,(reasonably priced) > front pipe.Got any spare ear defenders Dale?You *can* get exhaust bits > bad),and four nuts on the manifold.Pull it of the manifold,and the whole > thing drops on the floor.Replacement,as they say,is the reverse of the The best ear defenders that I have found are the Heavy duty machine shop type. They seem to filter out low frequency vibration, such as the drone of my heavy lug bias ply tires (tyres) and high frequency, like the incessant rattle of my gear shift lever, and valves. The down side is that they are large green things, and I worry that the local constabulary will take a dim view of the driver of a motor vehicle diminishing one of his senses. One good thing is that it allows you to hear the passenger talking, as it doesn't seem to filter voice much. This point is almost mute, as the short definition of talking over the noise of a diesel, is shouting. Other types of ear protection can fit inside the ear. I like the foam ones because the have a string attached so that you can get them out again and they are discrete. The gell ones are gross. > started to rattle on the frame again.Took me all afternoon.Is it just > me or does everyone have this trouble?Oh,and now I have no brakes.Thank > god for diesel engine braking,certainly teaches the correct use of the > gearbox on overrun.The battery works OK though........ Oh, the horror stories. A front pipe on a diesel should be the easiest thing in the world to do. When I had mine "professionally" done ( translation- teen gets to practice on bending machine), not only was it far too close to the ground, but unbeknownst to me, they had not used any hangers on the pipe. I go for a drive, and the exhaust breaks off. It had only been held on by the exhaust manifold and the muffler. The manifold had broken, and I was not happy. Next time I'll go with the pre bent original parts, and do it myself. Diesels are great for slowing down, aren't they. Lift off your right foot, and instant deceleration. Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 09:14:08 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: late night reading... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 08:18:13 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1010 Status: RO I got the past 12 months of LRO mailing list digests from Mark Grieshaber. Was reading down thru 93.3 last night and it was thrilling entertainment! (at least for a LandRover freak). The race between Terriann Wakeman and Dixon Kenner to rebuild their 109s and engines kept me on the edge of my couch. And the fact that some of the e-mails were out of order added to the thrill. I didn't get to the final chapter but I am anxious to know how it ended. Terriann had just fired up her rebuilt engine but lacked a transmission and dixon was fumbling with his keys and lockset when I retired. I could forward these digests to someone else if you want to follow the action. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 09:15:11 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: should have written it down To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 08:07:49 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 706 Status: RO Looking at my mudflaps last night I noted the label "...Genuine Parts fleet/rover land/rover range/rover..." or something to that effect. Anyway Mike, what is a fleet/rover (or was it freight/rover -- should have written it down). I figure it was something for the trades and not exported. I know LULU is certainly not a fleet/rover -- need to rebuild that solex. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com Thu Nov 18 09:48:46 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 08:51:30 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: late night reading... Status: RO Ray, I would love to have a copy. I get the biggest charge out of things TeriAnne writes. And Dixon seems to be the good- old-boys that repair with a stepping hammer and bailing wire. If you can send I would appreciate it. Roy-Coyote Sister Partner From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Nov 18 10:37:16 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: should have written it down To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:39:24 GMT In-Reply-To: <9311181407.AA13626@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 18, 93 8:07 am Status: RO Ray, It is,in fact Freight Rover,not fleet rover.Freight Rover was the light commercial division of the Rover Group,which produced a thing called the Sherpa van,which at one time used the Land Rover diesel engine as one of its options.It was somewhat smaller than your Ford "people carrier" vans.The division became Leyland DAF,when it was bought by the Dutch DAF company,which,in turn went bust this year,but the Dutch saved their own domestic division with government money,and left the English concern to sink.So much for the EEC.It still exists,thanks to a management buyout. At one time Land Rover/Freight Rover were lumped together in the Rover Group,I suspect so that the profit made by Land Rover(and the Range Rover) would prop up Freight Rover's outdated product.Let's face it,Land Rover was born propping up Rover Cars,and has always done so.Its only recently that investment has been made in Land Rover,which is after all the only firm in the world totally dedicated to the production of 4X4 vehicles. This became obvious several years ago under The Dreadful Margaret,when the owld cow was trying to sell off the whole group,cars as well.I think GMC were very keen to aquire it.They mad ethe mistake of saying they were really only interested in Land Rover,the rest would probably go.There was a nationwide protest,all Land Rovers sported "Keep Land Rover British"stickers,London was jammed with protesting Land/Range Rovers,which eventually forced The Dreadful to abandon the idea.The suspicion was that since your policy was to service defence requirements with American products only,this was a good way of selling Land Rovers to the US Army.Tough! Having said that,during the Gulf War,every Discovery in Saudi Arabia was clobbered by fairly high ranking US officers(who were reluctant to part with them later),and some of your Rangers have had some Land Rovers built for them stripped down as gunships.They resemble our SAS vehicles,but are modified for a different weapon fit.AND they wont admit theyve got them,but where else in the world would such things go,set up for LHD with the speedo's reading in MPH? Think on..... Cheers Mike ;wq From twakeman@apple.com Thu Nov 18 12:42:49 1993 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:45:21 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: late night reading... Status: RO In message <9311181418.AA16982@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> writes: > I got the past 12 months of LRO mailing list digests from > Mark Grieshaber. Was reading down thru 93.3 last night > and it was thrilling entertainment! (at least for a LandRover freak). > > The race between Terriann Wakeman and Dixon Kenner to rebuild > their 109s and engines kept me on the edge of my couch. > And the fact that some of the e-mails were out of order > added to the thrill. I didn't get to the final chapter > but I am anxious to know how it ended. Terriann had just > fired up her rebuilt engine but lacked a transmission and > dixon was fumbling with his keys and lockset when I > retired. > > I could forward these digests to someone else if you want > to follow the action. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) > - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) > - 80 MGB - xx > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray, Meanwhile My Land Rover is down because the master clutch cylinder (the one that I thought was on its last legs when I did a temperary rebuld in about 1982) has decided to become an air injection system. Of course in a relapse of shipfitters disease I FAXed an order to Merseyside Land Rover Services for a new drivers side side curtin to replaced the badly out of square one with cracked window, a sender unit and filler hose for a rear petrol tank, a fuel cap locking latch, a new master brake cylinder for converting over to a power assisted duel brake system , and oh yes, a new master clutch cylinder. They arrived at my house one week after I FAXed the order via UPS. This is faster than UPS ground from Rovers North and the total bill was MUCH less. Both Master cylinders were Girling, and the hose was labled genuine Land Rover Parts. Rovers North would scare you into believing you get only junk by ordering direcly from the UK. So, this weekend the front wing comes off. The clutch and brake peddel assemblies come off & a new cluthc cylinder goes on the old peddel assembly and the used peddel/booster assembly goes in with a new master brake cylinder. I just hope there is nothing funny with the brake line connectors as I go to split the system and run a new tube up for the rear brakes. In my spare time, I will continue with the great TR3 restoration, now finally in the assembly phase. The advanture continues, or why me? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 12:01:03 1993 From: jory@MIT.EDU Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 13:05:51 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: wheel cylinders/ aftermarket vs original Status: RO mike rooth says: One interesting fact that came out of the purchase was that Genuine Girling wheel cylinders are 20.50 plus the VAT(of course),whilst "pattern" units are 10.50(pounds,that is) +VAT each.Of course the Gen stuff *may* include nuts,but it is still one hell of a differential. It seems to me its little use the LRO magazine wittering on about always using genuine parts,when said parts are TWICE the price of a British made pattern spare indistinguishable from the original.And,in all probability made by the same firm.The name Girling isnt worth paying double for,in fact it isnt worth paying *anything* extra for,in my view. Same goes for brake shoes,although there was only five quid difference in that case.Again,the only difference was that Gen Girling used to have new 1/4 Whit locking screws and lock tabs included.10p extra? Who needs them? I've got the proverbial boxfull. while i couldn't agree more on the pads, i once purchased aftermarket cylinders (from the dreaded DAP) and they pretty promptly died, causing me no end of problems/annoyance/cost... replaced them with original and have been much happier since... perhaps if all the critical non-genuine parts i bought didn't die i would be more willing to continue giving them a go... From ccray Thu Nov 18 13:13:23 1993 From: ccray Subject: Re: late night reading... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu (ccray) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 13:13:22 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "ccray" at Nov 18, 93 10:31:11 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 390 Status: RO I sent you a message on how to anonymous ftp the digests -- could you try it quickly as I have 3 other requests already. If you can get it to work, I will post the method on LRO. thanks, -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca Thu Nov 18 12:37:08 1993 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 14:38:45 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: RE: late night reading... Status: RO I would be interested in recieving the digest....If you could forward it to my account the would be great! How much space does it take up? I have about 2.5 megs available. Thanks David S. PS I could arrange for more temp. mem if I shuffled some things..maybe up to 10. From rsrose@Juliet.Caltech.Edu Thu Nov 18 12:33:59 1993 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:36:24 PST From: rsrose@Juliet.Caltech.Edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) Subject: RE: 12 months of LRO list To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: IN%"ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" Status: RO Sent off the mail too fast, and forgot so say... Thanks Randy From rsrose@Juliet.Caltech.Edu Thu Nov 18 12:25:58 1993 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:28:38 PST From: rsrose@Juliet.Caltech.Edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) Subject: 12 months of LRO To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: IN%"ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" Status: RO Ray, I'll take you up on your offer to send on 12 months digest for the LRO mailing list. Since I didn't get on the list until August, most of this would be new stuff!. TeriAnn's and Dixon's story sounds familiar. My 107 spent six years sitting as a project in various stages of rebuild--engine, brakes, frame... All this time without a LR to drive: serious Land-Rover withdrawals! It's been running two years now, and its still a "new" truck for me. From marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Thu Nov 18 11:26:36 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: should have written it down To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:28:32 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9311181407.AA13626@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 18, 93 08:07:49 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1569 Status: RO > > Looking at my mudflaps last night I noted the label "...Genuine > Parts fleet/rover land/rover range/rover..." or something to > that effect. Anyway Mike, what is a fleet/rover (or was > it freight/rover -- should have written it down). > I figure it was something for the trades and not exported. > > I know LULU is certainly not a fleet/rover -- need to rebuild > that solex. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) > - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) > - 80 MGB - xx > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Freight Rover was a company building vans and light trucks, and was orginally part of the vast British Leyland empire before it was broken up into separate businesses. They were part of Land Rover for a time and shared numerous components with later Land Rovers (ie 70s and 80s). They still exist under the name of Leyland Daf, and, as far as I know, continue to source parts from the same suppliers as Land Rover. In fact, a number of parts are interchangeable, particularly engine parts, as Leyland Daf use the 3.5 litre V8 in some of their vehicles, in particular the rapid response mini-buses supplied to the Metropolitan Police. Some of their diesel engines are virtually identical to normally aspirated Land Rover units of the mid-eighties. I hope this goes some way to answering your query. Marcus. From azw@aber.ac.uk Thu Nov 18 11:17:59 1993 To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: late night reading... Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:22:11 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >I got the past 12 months of LRO mailing list digests from >Mark Grieshaber. Was reading down thru 93.3 last night >and it was thrilling entertainment! (at least for a LandRover freak). >I could forward these digests to someone else if you want >to follow the action. As a newby to the Lr list, I'd be grateful for a pointer to where to download these from...... Cheers Andy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 13:53:00 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: anonymous ftp of lro digests To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 13:48:14 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1433 Status: RO I tested the following and it appears to work. It is not clear to me how people without ftp access could get these, but maybe some unix experts might have some ideas if that is necessary. *********************************************************************** ** anonymous ftp notes -- note this works, other methods should too. ** *********************************************************************** NOTE: Digests 92.8 thru 93.10 were collected by Mark Grieshaber and shared with me. Digests 93.10 (late) thru current were collected by Ray Harder. Obtaining LRO digests procedure: -- change to the proper directory on the receiving machine. -- issue the ftp command -- "ftp lulu.cc.missouri.edu". (128.206.212.28) -- at the prompt, the user is anonymous and the password is anything, but the convention is the sender's userid/node. -- "?" at the ftp prompt gives some help; "dir" lists the directory. -- have ftp cd to the LRO subdirectory -- "cd pub/lro" -- change to the proper directory on the receiving machine (if you didn't do it above -- "lcd Mail" (for example). -- issue the "mget" ftp command to transfer the files. -- issue the "quit" ftp subcommand. -- Use your mailer to browse the files or print them for late night enjoyment. -- enjoy. *********************************************************************** From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 14:10:47 1993 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 15:09:36 EST From: MAC To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: anonymous ftp of lro digests Status: RO >I tested the following and it appears to work. Worked for me too. Thanks, Mike bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com Thu Nov 18 14:31:42 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 13:34:22 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: anonymous ftp of lro digests Status: RO Ray, I have determined that US West has determined that I can get e-mail and internet but have no ftp access. Thanks for trying and sending the info. If there is an easy alternative please let me know. Roy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 14:31:17 1993 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: anonymous ftp of lro digests To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 14:25:23 CST In-Reply-To: <9311182009.AA08341@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov>; from "MAC" at Nov 18, 93 3:09 pm Status: RO Ray, thanks for making an anon ftp site available for LRO stuff, that is